| === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === mpt [~mpt@203-167-186-106.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | salut mpt | 12:46 |
|---|---|---|
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| === Burgundavia [~corey@S01060010dc56a5e6.du.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mpt | hello Burgundavia | 07:06 |
| Burgundavia | how goes life on saturday? | 07:07 |
| mpt | well, I have a couple of wounds from rusty nails | 07:07 |
| Burgundavia | ouch | 07:07 |
| mpt | but other than that, I'm fine :-) | 07:07 |
| mpt | Are you in Saturday yet? | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | well, emailed usablity with that nautilus-cd stuff | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | not yet | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | is Friday 22:08 | 07:08 |
| mpt | You're spending a Friday night on IRC? | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | yep | 07:08 |
| Burgundavia | victoria has a very boring nightlife | 07:09 |
| Burgundavia | now I am figuring out why gnome-network doesn't appear to be built for hoary | 07:10 |
| mpt | I spent Friday night on IRC *and* drawing Web page mockups | 07:10 |
| Burgundavia | lol | 07:11 |
| Burgundavia | are you single? | 07:11 |
| mpt | No, and I was supposed to call my girlfriend to wake her up at 10pm, but I forgot | 07:12 |
| Burgundavia | oops | 07:12 |
| Burgundavia | single, but I still spend a lot of time with my ex | 07:12 |
| mpt | Fortunately she had prepared for my forgetfulness by setting her alarm clock and arranging for someone else to call her at that time too | 07:12 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, have you had any thoughts regarding the repository dialog in synaptic | 07:12 |
| mpt | none at all | 07:13 |
| === mpt looks | ||
| Burgundavia | damn | 07:13 |
| Burgundavia | I haven't had a eureka moment with it yet | 07:13 |
| mpt | You have 1 broken package on your system! | 07:13 |
| mpt | Use the "Broken" filter to locate it. | 07:13 |
| === mpt hunts for this "Broken" filter | ||
| Burgundavia | under "custom" | 07:14 |
| Burgundavia | that was the other thought I had | 07:14 |
| Burgundavia | merge status and custom | 07:14 |
| Burgundavia | and remember old searchs | 07:14 |
| mpt | those buttons are just wrong | 07:14 |
| mpt | ok, I've found the broken package, now what do I do | 07:15 |
| Burgundavia | what is it? | 07:15 |
| mpt | bazaar-dbg | 07:15 |
| Burgundavia | no idea | 07:15 |
| Burgundavia | probably needs a dependency that it didn't find, our you installed it with dpkg | 07:15 |
| mpt | Because I was on bazaar COTM, and I downgraded to bazaar 1.3.2, but didn't downgrade bazaar-dbg at the same time | 07:15 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 07:15 |
| mpt | ah, upgrading it requires upgrading bazaar too | 07:16 |
| mpt | well, now that I have 1.25 GB RAM... | 07:16 |
| mpt | ok, let's look at this repositories dialog | 07:16 |
| Burgundavia | here is a UI thought, drop the search button and merge status and custom | 07:16 |
| mpt | "Building repository dialog / Please wait." is just Wrong | 07:16 |
| Burgundavia | you got your mac back yet? | 07:17 |
| mpt | no, it's supposed to be arriving in a day or two | 07:17 |
| mpt | "synaptic" as the window title is also wrong | 07:17 |
| Burgundavia | filed a bug already, been fixed | 07:17 |
| mpt | "You can add and remove authentication keys in this dialog." | 07:18 |
| mpt | Quit telling me about dialogs | 07:18 |
| === Burgundavia would love to see mpt's face when he looks at the dialog | ||
| mpt | That's like going to a person and saying "Can you help me?", and they don't say "Yes, I can help you", they say "Yes, I'm a human who can help you" | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | the window needs a title, no? | 07:19 |
| mpt | yes | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | here is my redesign bug https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10453 | 07:19 |
| mpt | and if the "Add" button has text rather than just being a "+", it should end in "..." | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | not really fleshed out yet | 07:19 |
| Burgundavia | what does restore default keys do? is there a way to do that without having to bother the user? | 07:20 |
| mpt | What did you mean by "adding a custom dialog"? | 07:20 |
| Burgundavia | sorry, custom repo | 07:21 |
| mpt | ah | 07:21 |
| Burgundavia | that wasn't my most inspired piece of writing | 07:21 |
| Burgundavia | in fact, it is total crap | 07:21 |
| Burgundavia | I think I will rewrite | 07:21 |
| Burgundavia | but I need a consistent vision | 07:21 |
| mpt | I just had the (untitled) Repository Settings dialog open, but now I switched away from it and switched back, it's gone, and nothing works in any of the other windows | 07:22 |
| mpt | gtk-bug! :-) | 07:22 |
| mpt | W: GPG error: http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com> | 07:23 |
| Burgundavia | that happens sometimes | 07:23 |
| Burgundavia | time errors cause it | 07:23 |
| mpt | The first thing I noticed about Synaptic was that it had two Search buttons | 07:24 |
| mpt | and that the second seemed to do anything | 07:24 |
| Burgundavia | generally, everytime I think about synaptic and how to fix it, I run away crying | 07:24 |
| mpt | didn't seem to do anything, I mean | 07:24 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, yes | 07:24 |
| Burgundavia | should be dropped for the typeahead style, ala web browser entry bars | 07:25 |
| mpt | yeah | 07:25 |
| mpt | Who's the programmer here? | 07:25 |
| mpt | the programmer for synaptic, I mean | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | however, I think they want to pour resources into a new package installer, rather than fix synaptic | 07:25 |
| Burgundavia | no idea | 07:25 |
| mpt | Who's they? | 07:26 |
| Burgundavia | distro team | 07:26 |
| Burgundavia | canonical in general | 07:26 |
| Burgundavia | tie the new software installer into launchpad | 07:26 |
| mpt | Is this under http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs somewhere? | 07:27 |
| mpt | It's not in http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration | 07:27 |
| mpt | ah, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageManagementRoadmap | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | yep, thats it | 07:28 |
| Burgundavia | not currently a breezy goal | 07:29 |
| Burgundavia | so I guess I had better start filing bugs on syn | 07:29 |
| mpt | I don't like the idea of package management in general, but I guess it's essential on a system where you can't rely on anything in particular being installed | 07:30 |
| mpt | so maybe have two tabs, "Installed Packages" and "Available Packages" | 07:31 |
| Burgundavia | and a simple search dialog | 07:32 |
| mpt | nah, a search field at the top of each tab | 07:32 |
| mpt | like you said earlier | 07:32 |
| Burgundavia | should I file a bug about a complete synaptic redesign? | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | think that is worth it? | 07:33 |
| mpt | Have you ever in your life seen a bug report like that get used and marked fixed? | 07:33 |
| Burgundavia | nope | 07:34 |
| mpt | I don't think that's the sort of thing bug reports are good for | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | yah | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | that is the other thing that stopped me | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | I don't no who the synaptic upstream is | 07:34 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, used to be connectiva | 07:35 |
| mpt | http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/contribute.html | 07:35 |
| Burgundavia | mvo is the debian maintainer | 07:35 |
| mpt | one of the maintainers is Michael Vogt, who's also the Ubuntu Bugzilla assignee | 07:35 |
| Burgundavia | ya | 07:36 |
| Burgundavia | mvo = Michael Vogt | 07:36 |
| mpt | Put it down as a BoF for the next conference :-) | 07:37 |
| Burgundavia | I think I will put together something for -devel and see where it goes | 07:37 |
| mpt | Then I can wiki a design spec for it | 07:37 |
| Burgundavia | there are bits and pieces of a design spec | 07:38 |
| mpt | where? | 07:38 |
| Burgundavia | we talked about it in # -devel a few months back | 07:38 |
| Burgundavia | and there are bits with gnome-app-install | 07:39 |
| mpt | gnome-app-install? | 07:40 |
| mpt | Hmm, I seem to have that installed somewhere | 07:40 |
| Burgundavia | the applications-->system tools-->add/remove programs | 07:40 |
| Burgundavia | that half formed mess | 07:41 |
| mpt | oh, man, why is that a separate app | 07:41 |
| mpt | why why why | 07:41 |
| Burgundavia | that is the attempt to make a new app installer | 07:41 |
| mpt | haha | 07:42 |
| Burgundavia | dying on the alter of no-time | 07:42 |
| mpt | I just spent a few minutes choosing a pile of stuff to install, clicked "Apply", and ... "You must run this program as the root user" | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | oops | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | it should do that by default | 07:43 |
| Burgundavia | oh, you ran from the commandline | 07:43 |
| mpt | yes | 07:43 |
| mpt | Not that that should have made a difference | 07:44 |
| Burgundavia | there was talk of a RequiresRoot in the .desktop file, so that programs that require root just take it | 07:44 |
| mpt | It should have asked me for my password either way | 07:44 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, there are a lot of things that we want to hide from the average user that are very useful for the power user, like dependencies | 07:45 |
| mpt | However. I shall concentrate on my BreezyGoals. | 07:46 |
| Burgundavia | what are yours? | 07:46 |
| Burgundavia | I will think out a new design, and play with it | 07:46 |
| mpt | Launchpad 1.0, and fix the Ubuntu Help | 07:46 |
| Burgundavia | you being paid for number 2? | 07:47 |
| mpt | and design the new hardware data collection tool | 07:47 |
| mpt | no | 07:47 |
| Burgundavia | oh | 07:47 |
| mpt | Maybe I should have said "Breezy goals" rather than "BreezyGoals" :-) | 07:47 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 07:47 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 07:47 |
| mpt | Hmmm, it might be good to set a target of bugs to report before Breezy too | 07:48 |
| Burgundavia | lol | 07:48 |
| === jsgotangco [jerome36@203.131.73.88] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | ewwwww | 07:49 |
| Burgundavia | I also filed this --> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10454 | 07:49 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, huh? | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | i found my old P166 Sony Vaio PC | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | and just booted it up | 07:49 |
| Burgundavia | does it run windows? | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | aye win98 | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | it still woks though | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | keyboarrd is pretty bad though | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | this can be fixed | 07:52 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, what was that about the add and remove buttons | 07:53 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, "Authentication keys allow the verification of the software you download" | 07:57 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, you can comment as well | 07:57 |
| jsgotangco | verfication of what | 07:59 |
| jsgotangco | authenticity? | 07:59 |
| Burgundavia | good point | 07:59 |
| Burgundavia | I am filing bugs surrounding synaptic | 07:59 |
| Burgundavia | open the repo dialog in synaptic and look at authentication | 08:00 |
| Burgundavia | "Authentication keys allow are used to check software integrity" | 08:02 |
| Burgundavia | "Authentication keys are used to check software integrity" | 08:03 |
| === Burgundavia is going to be away, but don't hesitate to respond, I can read the scrollback | ||
| === jeff-away is now known as jeffsch | ||
| jeffsch | jsgotangco: you still thinkin of moving to NA? | 08:17 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, I think I just realised why the repo add dialog was bugging me so much. There is a visual disconnect between the add dialog and the show repo dialog | 08:57 |
| mpt | hey now | 09:07 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: Why is the "Ubuntu 5.04 Security Updates" repository turned off by default?!? | 09:08 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, I don't think it is. The repo add thing doesn't reflect what repos are actually there | 09:08 |
| mpt | Burgundavia: And I challenge you to find a single window in Synaptic that has a correct title (i.e. a title that (a) exists, (b) accurately describes the purpose of the window, and (c) doesn't end in punctuation) | 09:09 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, hmm, I don't think I am going to take that bet | 09:09 |
| mpt | No, I just added the Security Updates repository, and now I have three rather than two | 09:10 |
| Burgundavia | the whole add dialog thing is very fragile | 09:10 |
| mpt | Yes, switch to another window, then switch back to it, it disappears | 09:10 |
| Burgundavia | I was speaking more on the editing your sources.list | 09:10 |
| mpt | "The repository information has changes. A backup copy of your sources.list is stored in /etc/apt/sources.list.save. You need to reload the package list from the servers for your changes to take effect. Do you want to do this now?" ( No, I Was Just Adding the Repository For Fun ) ( Yes ) | 09:11 |
| Burgundavia | probably it should just reload? | 09:12 |
| mpt | yes | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | ok, will file a bug about that | 09:12 |
| Burgundavia | poor mvo | 09:12 |
| mpt | Rather than filing a bug that the alert is incorrectly titled "Information" :-) | 09:12 |
| mpt | So gaim, gzip, Firefox, and OpenOffice, amongst others, were insecure on my system because the Security Updates repository was off by default. | 09:13 |
| Burgundavia | done | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | gah | 09:14 |
| mpt | gah? | 09:14 |
| Burgundavia | wrong window | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | check out the "set internal option" option | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | and add cdrom is not with the add repos dialog | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | bugzilla is horrible at sorting bugs | 09:18 |
| mpt | It's going to be another 24 minutes and 6 seconds before I can explore Synaptic further | 09:27 |
| mpt | That's another bug ... It's almost certainly not going to be 24 minutes and 6 seconds, it should just say "about 24 minutes" | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | oh, you upgrading? | 09:27 |
| mpt | that whole window needs redesigning, really | 09:27 |
| mpt | Yeah, I'm installing the security updates | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | the whole gui needs a redesign | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | that is what is so scary, and can really be best done at a bof | 09:28 |
| mpt | It'd take longer than a BoF | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | how about a hackfest week? | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | and some good user studies? | 09:28 |
| mpt | When I was at UDU I had no time to finish any design specs, it was scary | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | I gather UDU was crazy | 09:29 |
| mpt | Well, I haven't been to any other distro meetings, so I've got nothing to compare it to | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | nor have I | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | well, Mataro wasn't that crazy | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | morning of bofs, afternoon of hack | 09:30 |
| Burgundavia | here is another one, the right-click and package menu are subtly different | 09:30 |
| === Burgundavia muses about gossip. If only it did what gaim does | ||
| mpt | in what way? | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | gossip only does jabber, no aim/yahoo/icq | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | but gossip is very very cool | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | higgy and simple | 09:38 |
| mpt | ah | 09:38 |
| Burgundavia | and the icons rock | 09:38 |
| mpt | I'll install it in 12 minutes and 54 seconds and see | 09:38 |
| mpt | Things that look like checkboxes should check when you click them | 09:38 |
| mpt | they shouldn't open a menu | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | where? | 09:39 |
| mpt | in the package list | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | oh, yes | 09:39 |
| mpt | if you want to offer some choices, fine, but dont' make it look like a checkbox | 09:39 |
| mpt | make it look like a menu | 09:39 |
| mpt | the Microsoft Office installer gets that right. | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | and then have a bunch of stuff greyed out | 09:39 |
| mpt | http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/inst08.gif | 09:41 |
| Burgundavia | yes, but the dialog is mostly evil elsewhere | 09:42 |
| === Burgundavia has been a windows help desk monkey | ||
| mpt | what dialog? | 09:42 |
| mpt | I'm *just* talking about the checkboxes | 09:42 |
| Burgundavia | the installer | 09:42 |
| Burgundavia | what would you call the green square? | 09:43 |
| Burgundavia | status icon? | 09:43 |
| mpt | I wouldn't | 09:44 |
| Burgundavia | oh | 09:44 |
| Burgundavia | what would you call it? | 09:45 |
| mpt | I'd change it to a menu, as used in the MS Office installer | 09:45 |
| mpt | except make it an option menu, rather than a pull-down menu | 09:45 |
| Burgundavia | did you just read my bug report? | 09:45 |
| mpt | what bug report? | 09:45 |
| Burgundavia | https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10761 | 09:46 |
| Burgundavia | been filing like mad while we talk | 09:46 |
| mpt | well, that depends on how useful the other options are | 09:48 |
| mpt | I can't remember, and I can't see them a.t.m. | 09:48 |
| Burgundavia | the other options are complete remove and reinstall | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | for an installed package | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | forgot about upgrade | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | just added that | 09:50 |
| === Burgundavia really does feel sorry for mvo | ||
| Burgundavia | "* The problem is so bad on Windows that there is a Desktop Cleanup Wizard." | 09:51 |
| mpt | yeah | 09:51 |
| mpt | I don't know the difference between Remove and Completely Remove | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | completely remove does the config files as well | 09:52 |
| mpt | what is this | 09:53 |
| mpt | "Debconf on ubuntu" | 09:53 |
| mpt | "What would you like to do about postgresql.conf?" | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | where is that from? | 09:53 |
| mpt | It popped up during the installation | 09:54 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, odd, no idea | 09:54 |
| mpt | I chose "show the difference between the versions" and clicked Forward, and it seems to have hung | 09:55 |
| Burgundavia | oh | 09:55 |
| Burgundavia | what is your cpu doing? | 09:55 |
| Burgundavia | it may be grinding away, apt is not very optomised | 09:55 |
| mpt | Cpu(s): 10.6% us, 1.0% sy, 0.0% ni, 88.1% id, 0.0% wa, 0.3% hi, 0.0% si | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, idle | 09:57 |
| === mpt kills it | ||
| Burgundavia | http://www.metallikop.com/images/blog/wptray-lg.png | 09:58 |
| Burgundavia | run away now | 09:58 |
| mpt | and now I think synaptic as a whole is going to be waiting forever for debconf to tell it it's finished | 09:59 |
| mpt | hehe, "More Options" | 10:00 |
| mpt | "recursive directory links will lockup [sic] the program" | 10:00 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?page=4 <-- someone needs to increase the size of page links here | 10:01 |
| Burgundavia | at the bottom | 10:01 |
| mpt | I don't mind, I have my minimum font size set to 10px | 10:01 |
| Burgundavia | geez gnome-look.org is filled with ubuntu backgrounds | 10:03 |
| mpt | heh, I noticed | 10:06 |
| mpt | anyway, time for work | 10:06 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 10:07 |
| Burgundavia | thanks | 10:07 |
| mpt | E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. | 10:08 |
| Burgundavia | it should just do that for you | 10:09 |
| mpt | indeed. | 10:09 |
| Burgundavia | you going to file a bug on that? | 10:09 |
| mpt | No, I'm going to get back to work | 10:10 |
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| Burgundavia | salut enrico | 11:07 |
| enrico | hi | 11:10 |
| Burgundavia | enrico, how is life going? | 11:19 |
| enrico | not too bad | 11:19 |
| enrico | although this afternoon I'll be at a marriage and I'm not fond of loong social events | 11:19 |
| Burgundavia | ouch | 11:19 |
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| Burgundavia | salut mdke | 11:35 |
| === abelli [[U2FsdGVkX@17c4eee8c8a14eb9.session.tor] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| abelli | ciao | 12:29 |
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| froud | enrico: hi, thanks | 03:33 |
| froud | enrico: you home? | 03:34 |
| enrico | froud: for little | 03:42 |
| enrico | froud: gotta go to a marriage | 03:42 |
| enrico | froud: does it build for you? | 03:42 |
| froud | thanks for that | 03:42 |
| froud | have not tested yet | 03:42 |
| froud | just been generating unique id values | 03:43 |
| froud | you think we need to upload it to debian for now | 03:43 |
| froud | can it wait a bit | 03:43 |
| enrico | sure we can wait | 03:44 |
| froud | I was thinking I would try it out on my system, then get some of the people on the team to try it | 03:44 |
| froud | then iron out bugs | 03:44 |
| froud | and then do deb and ubuntu | 03:44 |
| enrico | maybe it's better to upload it in Debian with an HTML version as well, since there's no direct need to have it as a build-dep there | 03:44 |
| === abelli_ [~john@d81e9b5b946b81d9.session.tor] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | yes, can do | 03:45 |
| abelli_ | ai | 03:45 |
| froud | I will make the deb available from the web site | 03:45 |
| froud | hello abelli | 03:45 |
| froud | As a test case I will impliment it on the generic installation guide | 03:45 |
| froud | that way people in the team can see what it does, how it works | 03:46 |
| froud | enrico: ok will keep you posted | 03:48 |
| froud | enrico: with regard to how it works I have added to README | 03:48 |
| froud | http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/project/web-sample.html | 03:48 |
| enrico | froud: nice! Is the README inside dict/ ? | 03:51 |
| froud | enrico: Uh no, in trunk/ | 03:56 |
| froud | good point | 03:56 |
| froud | now it is | 04:02 |
| enrico | you can put it inside debian/ | 04:04 |
| enrico | froud: if you don't like it just inside dict | 04:04 |
| froud | nah it's ok in dict | 04:04 |
| === Skywind [~Skywind@218.94.37.185] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| enrico | froud: cool! cdbs found the README and included it in the package by itself | 04:05 |
| enrico | no need for me to update the packaging! :) | 04:05 |
| froud | yeah ;-) | 04:06 |
| froud | I dont think there will ever be much need to update it | 04:06 |
| froud | the tree is very stable | 04:06 |
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| mdke | this piece of shit router | 09:04 |
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