| tseng | ok so beagle still works after rebuild | 12:12 |
|---|---|---|
| tseng | rock | 12:12 |
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| ogra | tseng, :) great | 01:06 |
| crimsun | I'll be scarce for the next week or so as I get reacquainted, see y'all on the flip side | 01:22 |
| tseng | hi ogra | 01:29 |
| ogra | tseng, hey (i'm drunk, had a party at the firefighters in my 400 ppl vilage) | 01:30 |
| ogra | +l | 01:30 |
| ogra | tseng, sup ? | 01:30 |
| tseng | buh | 01:31 |
| ogra | heh | 01:31 |
| tseng | the dog is being a pain | 01:31 |
| tseng | like only dogs can | 01:31 |
| ogra | mine isnt :=) | 01:32 |
| tseng | this one is 16 months | 01:32 |
| tseng | he thinks he is a puppy | 01:32 |
| ogra | oh, mine is nearly 15 years | 01:32 |
| tseng | yeah | 01:32 |
| tseng | he is mellow | 01:32 |
| ogra | mine cant even move hie rear legssometimes :/ | 01:33 |
| ogra | his even | 01:34 |
| ogra | but dogs are greast :) | 01:34 |
| ogra | -s | 01:34 |
| ogra | damned | 01:34 |
| tseng | not when they pee all over the house | 01:36 |
| tseng | and jump on your hot neighbor | 01:36 |
| ogra | bah, they learn it eventually | 01:36 |
| ogra | at least the peeing | 01:36 |
| tseng | he un-learned | 01:37 |
| ogra | and if your hot neighbor likes dogs, it could be an advantage ;) | 01:37 |
| dahane | my neighbour is not hot and i have no dog, so no advantage at all :) | 01:38 |
| tseng | do we have an official statement about backports? | 01:39 |
| tseng | this guy who does the beagle wiki page just cant get the clue | 01:39 |
| ogra | the are B A D ! | 01:39 |
| tseng | well, yes | 01:39 |
| tseng | i told him twice now they are done with low standards, and detract from testing and development of our real release cycle | 01:39 |
| ogra | yep | 01:40 |
| tseng | so today he asks me | 01:40 |
| tseng | why doesnt canonical sponsor backports.ubuntuforums | 01:40 |
| ogra | gah | 01:40 |
| ogra | i remember one of the backporters tried to become a motu once, he left after a week | 01:41 |
| ogra | havent seen him since then | 01:41 |
| tseng | <@BenM> tseng, if I put up a tarball, can you just package that | 01:46 |
| tseng | < tseng> BenM: I can | 01:46 |
| tseng | <@BenM> because i can do that *right now* | 01:46 |
| tseng | gecko#2 :D | 01:46 |
| ogra | yeah | 01:47 |
| crimsun | oh no, not the 'b' word | 01:49 |
| tseng | also svn up on pkg-mono | 01:51 |
| tseng | see if we have anything to merge | 01:51 |
| tseng | (we need bazaar on alioth so i get a local branch!!!) | 01:52 |
| JanC | hm, libgecko-cil in breezy depends on mozilla-browser, instead of on mozilla-firefox in hoary ? | 01:52 |
| tseng | /topic please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | 01:52 |
| JanC | ah, okay :) | 01:53 |
| tseng | thanks :) | 01:53 |
| JanC | I don't complain btw, was just a question :) | 01:53 |
| crimsun | JanC: (or just send a unified diff of debian/control to tseng and ogra ;) | 01:53 |
| tseng | heh | 01:54 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | ||
| ogra | ;) | 01:55 |
| tseng | heh | 01:55 |
| tseng | JanC: np, just I get it several times a day and I am very easily frustrated | 01:55 |
| ogra | tseng, but we should in any case move everything to main on monday.... | 01:56 |
| tseng | yes | 01:56 |
| tseng | and it should be in pretty good shape | 01:56 |
| tseng | are you ready for me to unleash hell? | 01:56 |
| tseng | i have a ton of -pre stuff just handed down from upstream | 01:56 |
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| ogra | but it also will require that we get upload rights to main for you | 01:57 |
| tseng | the whole monodevelop stack from known-working svn | 01:57 |
| ogra | which is bad, since mdz is on holiday | 01:57 |
| ogra | wow | 01:57 |
| tseng | hm can it wait one week then? | 01:57 |
| tseng | it shouldnt go to main w/o mdz either | 01:57 |
| ogra | hmm | 01:57 |
| tseng | even though he tentatively approved it at udu.. | 01:57 |
| ogra | i think its ok for main... | 01:58 |
| tseng | well he approved the transition plan so it wouldnt be totally nuts to move it over | 01:58 |
| crimsun | just funnel everything through ogra until mdz returns | 01:59 |
| ogra | but to keep your upload rights for now, we should only pull mono and probably gtk-sharp in... so you can work on the apps | 01:59 |
| tseng | hm yes gtk-sharp1 | 01:59 |
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| tseng | that i will be happy not to touch once its build w/ working monodis | 01:59 |
| tseng | lets do it like that :) | 01:59 |
| ogra | yep | 01:59 |
| tseng | ogra is wise | 01:59 |
| ogra | heh | 01:59 |
| ogra | nope, drunk... but that might be the same :) | 02:00 |
| === Burgundavia hugs tseng for great mono love | ||
| ogra | yeah | 02:02 |
| tseng | ok so ill do gtk-sharp1 now | 02:02 |
| ogra | ok | 02:02 |
| tseng | and then go to town on the svn crack | 02:02 |
| ogra | yay | 02:02 |
| tseng | :D | 02:02 |
| tseng | mm mono in main will let us fix dbus too | 02:05 |
| ogra | yep | 02:06 |
| ogra | thats the idea | 02:06 |
| ajmitch_ | hi | 02:09 |
| zerokarmaleft | ogra, tseng, you guys rock fyi | 02:09 |
| === ajmitch_ agrees | ||
| === ajmitch_ wants to be a tseng/ogra fanboy :) | ||
| tseng | hehe | 02:13 |
| tseng | ill be your fanboy | 02:13 |
| zerokarmaleft | not a fanboy...just trying to apologize for what amounted to bitching about mono deps | 02:13 |
| tseng | heh its cool | 02:14 |
| tseng | im a grumpy bastard | 02:14 |
| ogra | ajmitch_, yeah, join room 205, in fact its tseg who does the work, i only do cleanups like fixing broken manpages of miguel d icasa ;) | 02:14 |
| zerokarmaleft | i can imagine since you're packaging mono | 02:14 |
| ogra | s/of/from | 02:14 |
| tseng | heh meebey did the groundwork | 02:14 |
| tseng | i am standing on his shoulders | 02:14 |
| tseng | "go team" | 02:14 |
| ogra | and i'm on yours tseng :) | 02:14 |
| tseng | yes, we all rock so hard | 02:15 |
| ogra | yeah | 02:15 |
| tseng | (and its still busted :) | 02:15 |
| tseng | but not for long | 02:15 |
| tseng | Subject: gtk-sharp_1.0.8-1ubuntu4_source.changes ACCEPTED | 02:15 |
| tseng | take that crappy deps | 02:15 |
| ogra | yeah | 02:15 |
| tseng | that will let at least f-spot work | 02:17 |
| ogra | yipiee | 02:17 |
| tseng | just think of all the brain space i have wasted remembering the mono dependency tree | 02:17 |
| ogra | yep, i can imagine ;) | 02:17 |
| tseng | tomboy i think is still building with dbus | 02:18 |
| tseng | for its plugin system | 02:18 |
| tseng | and beagle | 02:18 |
| tseng | md and muine are gtk#2 | 02:18 |
| tseng | oh yeah.. bzipped buildLogs | 02:20 |
| ogra | and muine is fixed now ? | 02:20 |
| tseng | muine needs dbus | 02:20 |
| tseng | and gtk#2 | 02:20 |
| ogra | i'm building a cgi script for the bz2 logs | 02:20 |
| tseng | it works for me, just not the rest of you | 02:20 |
| tseng | heh. | 02:20 |
| tseng | i cant live w/o muine | 02:20 |
| ogra | that also reloads the buildlogs page every 10 min | 02:20 |
| tseng | hm awesome | 02:21 |
| === ajmitch_ just grabs build logs with wget & looks at them with bzless :) | ||
| tseng | will it have search :P | 02:21 |
| ogra | i could, since i mostly use streamtuner | 02:21 |
| ogra | hmm, search ? ... good idea | 02:21 |
| tseng | yeah, just type in gtk-sharp and get both hits | 02:21 |
| === ajmitch_ is stunned at how many packages doko has claimed on CxxLibraryList | ||
| ogra | yep | 02:21 |
| tseng | that would be super useful | 02:22 |
| ogra | ok, i'll do a little javascript magic | 02:22 |
| ajmitch_ | I feel obsolete now that tseng & ogra are doing all the mono stuff :) | 02:23 |
| ogra | ajmitch_, just grab something | 02:23 |
| === ajmitch_ has to know what to grab & fix first | ||
| tseng | cxx! | 02:25 |
| ogra | heh | 02:25 |
| ajmitch_ | yeah, I've got to restart X before I can use firefox much :) | 02:27 |
| ajmitch_ | X seems to want to take 600MB or so of ram | 02:27 |
| ogra | bah | 02:28 |
| tseng | hm the memory report for X in top or so is "wrong" | 02:29 |
| ajmitch_ | makes me want to use my laptop instead | 02:29 |
| tseng | it includes mmapped memory for your gfx card and stuff | 02:29 |
| ajmitch_ | tseng: I don't think it's wrong by a lot.. | 02:29 |
| tseng | who made the post.. was it branden? | 02:29 |
| ajmitch_ | the card is only 32MB, compared to the 600MB top reports :) | 02:29 |
| ajmitch_ | post? | 02:29 |
| tseng | a post on the mailing list about what all is include in the X memory reported | 02:30 |
| tseng | i found it very informative | 02:30 |
| ajmitch_ | no idea | 02:30 |
| ajmitch_ | either way it causes my box to be very slow | 02:30 |
| === ajmitch_ feels like reverting to xfree86 | ||
| === minghua [~minghua@ppp-69-153-138-159.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| minghua | Hi, I have a question about the upcoming c++ library transition | 02:43 |
| ajmitch_ | ok | 02:43 |
| minghua | I am the Debian maintainer of package scim | 02:43 |
| minghua | scim depends on libstdc++ (and only libstdc++ as c++ dependence) | 02:44 |
| minghua | but I didn't split a separate package for the shared library | 02:44 |
| minghua | I've voluteered to work on scim and related package for this transition | 02:45 |
| ogra | great | 02:45 |
| ogra | :) | 02:45 |
| minghua | my question is: can I change the structure of the package and make a separate shared library package | 02:45 |
| minghua | basically I don't want to rename the binary package scim to scimc2 | 02:46 |
| minghua | that's going to be ugly | 02:46 |
| ogra | will you do that in debian too if the transition happens there ? | 02:46 |
| ajmitch_ | the transition will probably happen in debian within 2 months | 02:46 |
| ajmitch_ | (we hope) | 02:47 |
| minghua | and it's going to confuse users since the scim package contains /usr/bin/scim binary as well | 02:47 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: that's actually another thing I want to talk about | 02:47 |
| === ajmitch_ tags a few packages on the c++ transition list as his.. | ||
| === ogra agrees about the uglyness | ||
| minghua | the upstream released a new version months ago | 02:47 |
| minghua | but I dare not (could not) get it into sarge because of SONAME change | 02:48 |
| minghua | I have been working on the new version these days | 02:48 |
| minghua | and I am having a reasonable package that can be uploaded to experimental | 02:48 |
| minghua | or maybe after one or two days' work | 02:49 |
| ogra | great, then we can sync it :) | 02:49 |
| minghua | I am going to have a new version in good shape | 02:49 |
| ogra | yay | 02:49 |
| minghua | so does the MOTUs think it would be better to wait for the new versions instead of working on transition of old packages? | 02:50 |
| minghua | the new version is going to have a separate library package | 02:50 |
| ajmitch_ | we don't want to repeat work, since that work will need to be merged when the new version is uplaoded | 02:50 |
| ajmitch_ | so a new version is preferable | 02:50 |
| minghua | so this kind of madness is not going to happen again | 02:50 |
| ajmitch_ | imho :) | 02:50 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: but the thing is, I can only push the new version into sid after sarge is released | 02:51 |
| ajmitch_ | but you can push into experimental | 02:51 |
| minghua | so are MOTUs okay to rsync with experimental? | 02:51 |
| ajmitch_ | sure | 02:51 |
| ogra | experimental is just fine | 02:51 |
| tseng | experimental gets automerged actually | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | tseng: it does already? | 02:52 |
| tseng | yes? | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | I didn't think elmo had turned that on | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | it was suggested at UDU | 02:52 |
| tseng | dont you see the big mom merge every few days? | 02:52 |
| ogra | with a little selection by elmo i guess | 02:52 |
| tseng | or is that all elmo super crack-fu | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | yes, I thought that was sid? | 02:52 |
| minghua | okay, then does it make sense if I submit a bug describing all these | 02:52 |
| tseng | oh sorry | 02:52 |
| tseng | i was thinking sid the whole time | 02:52 |
| minghua | and hold the transition for some time, until the new version in experimental is uploaded? | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | packages still fly into sid at a horrendous rate | 02:52 |
| ajmitch_ | ok | 02:52 |
| ogra | minghua, sounds good | 02:53 |
| === ajmitch_ shoudl get onto debian BTS patch filing | ||
| minghua | I am going to work on other scim-related packages to make sure they build against the new API | 02:53 |
| minghua | ABI, sorry | 02:53 |
| minghua | the API isn't changed | 02:53 |
| ogra | great | 02:54 |
| minghua | (hopefully, at least the upstream authors claim so) | 02:54 |
| minghua | Great, thanks guys | 02:54 |
| ogra | yeah, youre welcome :) | 02:54 |
| ajmitch_ | minghua: good to have some more DDs who care about ubuntu as well :) | 02:55 |
| minghua | oh by the way, if I understand correctly, the scim in breezy will continue to work, since it only depends on libstdc++5 | 02:55 |
| minghua | right? | 02:55 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: actually I am not DD yet :-P | 02:55 |
| ajmitch_ | it should be ok, afaik | 02:56 |
| ajmitch_ | aha :) | 02:56 |
| minghua | I am planning to apply for NM very soon though | 02:56 |
| ajmitch_ | good luck :) | 02:56 |
| ajmitch_ | it took me awhile to do NM | 02:56 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: and actually that's why Ubuntu attracts me | 02:56 |
| ajmitch_ | so far I've only ascended the ubuntu scale to MOTU level ;) | 02:57 |
| === tseng is scared to pass judgement for Main | ||
| tseng | im sloppy | 03:03 |
| minghua | ah ha, so MOM stands for the syncnizer that pulls packages from debian? | 03:03 |
| ajmitch_ | yep | 03:03 |
| tseng | yes, merge o matic | 03:03 |
| tseng | it tries to merge it with the ubuntu version | 03:03 |
| ajmitch_ | tseng: yeah, I'm a bit that way when doing mass fixes or in a rush | 03:03 |
| tseng | and dumps it in | 03:04 |
| tseng | or gives it back to the maintainer to merge by hand | 03:04 |
| minghua | wow, could never guess that by myself | 03:04 |
| tseng | its on the wiki somewhere | 03:04 |
| tseng | OngoingMerge perhaps | 03:04 |
| ajmitch_ | it doesn't actually dump in changes | 03:04 |
| ajmitch_ | all MoM merges have to be approved | 03:05 |
| tseng | well it syncs stuff that doesnt conflict with an ubuntu version | 03:05 |
| ajmitch_ | since a clean merge doesn't mean it's correct (as I've found) | 03:05 |
| ajmitch_ | eg both debian & ubuntu adding the same dpatch with a different name, causes a nice clean merge but build failures | 03:05 |
| ajmitch_ | yay, 1 c++ library almost done | 03:06 |
| === minghua looks around his new breezy chroot | ||
| minghua | so build-essential in breezy is not updated yet? | 03:06 |
| ajmitch_ | npoe, it will be next week | 03:07 |
| minghua | or is my mirror slow? | 03:07 |
| ajmitch_ | doko is putting in g++ 4.0 by default on monday | 03:07 |
| minghua | Hmm, then does installing g++-4.0 manually work? | 03:07 |
| ajmitch_ | yes, but it won't be default | 03:07 |
| minghua | or should I install doko's gcc package? | 03:07 |
| ajmitch_ | since /usr/bin/g++ is a symlink to g++-3.3 still | 03:08 |
| ajmitch_ | install doko's packages, they just update the defaults | 03:08 |
| minghua | the one in people.ubuntu.com/~doko I mean | 03:08 |
| === ajmitch_ waits patiently for compilation | ||
| minghua | okay, will do that | 03:08 |
| minghua | maybe I can put my hands on some one else's package first :-) | 03:09 |
| ajmitch_ | Setting up libcommoncpp2-1.0-0c2 (1.0.13-5ubuntu1) ... | 03:10 |
| ajmitch_ | great, it worked.. | 03:10 |
| ajmitch_ | looks like I might be able to do 5/day after all ;) | 03:15 |
| ajmitch_ | bbl | 03:15 |
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| whiprush | hey tseng, is your beagle working? | 04:05 |
| tseng | of course it is | 04:05 |
| whiprush | you have inotify turned on? | 04:05 |
| tseng | no | 04:05 |
| whiprush | hrm. | 04:05 |
| tseng | but im meaning to try it | 04:05 |
| tseng | with 2.6.12 | 04:05 |
| minghua | Hmm, one more question about c++ transition: The wiki says we should file bug in bugzilla even for universe packages | 04:23 |
| minghua | but the package list doesn't contain universe package names, so should I just put UNKNOWN there? Or fill in the package name by hand? | 04:24 |
| minghua | and should I assign it to anyone? myself? | 04:25 |
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| === ajmitch_ throws another set of packages on the to-upload pile | ||
| ajmitch_ | Unfrgiven: what's up? | 07:04 |
| whiprush | hey Unfrgiven, ajmitch_ | 07:06 |
| ajmitch_ | whiprush! | 07:08 |
| ajmitch_ | dude | 07:08 |
| whiprush | sup | 07:08 |
| ajmitch_ | c++ transitioning, of course | 07:09 |
| whiprush | heh | 07:09 |
| whiprush | how goes the fight? | 07:09 |
| ajmitch_ | just started that one today | 07:09 |
| whiprush | is there a list? | 07:09 |
| ajmitch_ | wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryList | 07:11 |
| whiprush | _ouch_ | 07:11 |
| ajmitch_ | heh ;) | 07:12 |
| ajmitch_ | only a week or so of work ;) | 07:13 |
| whiprush | if your dholbach maybe. :p | 07:13 |
| ajmitch_ | I've done 4 so far today, just about to build #5 | 07:14 |
| ajmitch_ | it doesn't take long to do most of them | 07:14 |
| whiprush | hmmm, maybe we can do a party here for em. | 07:15 |
| whiprush | know if metallikop did one yet? | 07:15 |
| ajmitch_ | no idea | 07:15 |
| whiprush | k, I'll snag him this weekend then | 07:15 |
| ajmitch_ | we're not uploading until next week | 07:16 |
| whiprush | okey | 07:16 |
| === ajmitch_ thinks it best to do all this in the chroot instead :) | ||
| ajmitch_ | flatmate using all the bandwidth.. | 07:21 |
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| === ivoks [~ivoks@lns01-0829.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ivoks | 'morning | 07:57 |
| ajmitch_ | hi ivoks | 08:00 |
| ajmitch_ | wb ogra & susus :) | 08:00 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ dreamless man :) | 08:00 |
| ajmitch_ | hmm? | 08:00 |
| ajmitch_ | only 6pm here.. | 08:00 |
| === ajmitch_ is in NZ, remember ;) | ||
| ivoks | i know, but i'm sure u will be up at least till 3AM | 08:01 |
| ajmitch_ | got to fill my quotas ;) | 08:03 |
| ivoks | :) | 08:03 |
| ivoks | loren one year | 08:06 |
| ivoks | doh :) | 08:06 |
| ivoks | E: Broken packages | 08:06 |
| ajmitch_ | if it's breezy, it's expected :) | 08:08 |
| === metallikop [i@pcp0011431183pcs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ajmitch_ | hey metallikop | 08:09 |
| metallikop | hey ajmitch | 08:12 |
| metallikop | long time no see | 08:12 |
| ajmitch_ | yeah, what have you been up to? | 08:16 |
| === ajmitch_ waits patiently for packages to build | ||
| ivoks | ajmitch_ i have one build | 08:21 |
| ivoks | in cxx transition | 08:21 |
| ivoks | who will upload it? | 08:21 |
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: whoever reviews it for you | 08:22 |
| minghua | ivoks: yeah, I have the same question | 08:22 |
| ajmitch_ | did you just rebuild a library? | 08:22 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ will you do it? :) | 08:22 |
| ivoks | yes | 08:22 |
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: we're not uploading yet | 08:22 |
| minghua | I know we are supposed to wait until tuesday | 08:22 |
| ajmitch_ | did you change the names, add in the appropriate entries? | 08:22 |
| ivoks | yes | 08:22 |
| ajmitch_ | we must wait until tuesday | 08:22 |
| ivoks | ok | 08:22 |
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: and did you write your name on the wiki list? :) | 08:22 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ yes | 08:23 |
| ivoks | check out, last package :) | 08:23 |
| ajmitch_ | if we upload before tuesday, we get a binary named like it has been done, compiled with g++ 3.3 | 08:23 |
| ivoks | libzipios++0 | 08:23 |
| ivoks | ah, ok | 08:23 |
| ajmitch_ | which is a *bad thing* :) | 08:23 |
| ivoks | i know | 08:23 |
| ajmitch_ | stick it on a review list | 08:23 |
| ajmitch_ | otherwise I can guarantee I'll forget it ;) | 08:24 |
| ivoks | :) | 08:24 |
| ivoks | i did couple of apps and only this lib | 08:24 |
| ivoks | i was told not to do apps yet | 08:24 |
| ajmitch_ | yeah, it's not time for apps | 08:24 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: do we need to put the source package somewhere, or only the patch in bugzilla will work? | 08:25 |
| ajmitch_ | yay, this 1 src package will take care of 12 entries on the list ;) | 08:25 |
| ajmitch_ | minghua: put the package up for review somewhere | 08:25 |
| ajmitch_ | it's the easiest way, we find | 08:25 |
| ajmitch_ | wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview | 08:25 |
| === ajmitch_ will add a CXXTransition section on that page | ||
| minghua | ajmitch_: I see, thanks, will upload later | 08:26 |
| minghua | I finished all the packaging though | 08:26 |
| ajmitch_ | that's good | 08:26 |
| ajmitch_ | put it on the list, tagged as a gcc 4 transition like ivoks did :) | 08:27 |
| ivoks | ok... server is down... | 08:27 |
| ivoks | i just renamed it :) | 08:27 |
| ivoks | CXX transition :) | 08:27 |
| ajmitch_ | that's fine | 08:27 |
| === ajmitch_ mutters dark & ominous things about clanlib build failure | ||
| === ajmitch_ edits debian/rules | ||
| minghua | ajmitch_: I also had some questions about how to file the bug | 08:28 |
| metallikop | ajmitch_: not much. lots of work in the past month | 08:28 |
| minghua | <minghua> Hmm, one more question about c++ transition: The wiki says we should file bug in bugzilla even for universe packages | 08:28 |
| metallikop | got a new job so I haven't been that active at all. | 08:28 |
| minghua | <minghua> but the package list doesn't contain universe package names, so should I just put UNKNOWN there? Or fill in the package name by hand? | 08:29 |
| minghua | <minghua> and should I assign it to anyone? myself? | 08:29 |
| metallikop | But, i should be back and able to help out full time once again. | 08:29 |
| ivoks | metallikop :))) | 08:29 |
| minghua | can anybody answer this? | 08:29 |
| ajmitch_ | minghua: I don't know why it suggests that for universe, as we are using malone as our bugtracker ( http://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone ) | 08:29 |
| minghua | then I can add them to the wiki :-) | 08:29 |
| ajmitch_ | yes, add to the wiki | 08:30 |
| metallikop | how've you been ajmitch_ ? | 08:30 |
| ajmitch_ | we'll care about bugs later :) | 08:30 |
| ajmitch_ | metallikop: very busy | 08:30 |
| ajmitch_ | UDU was fun though | 08:30 |
| metallikop | so i hear | 08:30 |
| metallikop | jorge has lots of pictures | 08:30 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: but what to add? ``the MOTUs don't agree though, they think the bugs for universe should be filed in malone''? | 08:31 |
| minghua | :-P | 08:31 |
| metallikop | i have a lot of catching up to do :) | 08:31 |
| ajmitch_ | minghua: I haven't been told by the Powers That Be what we do for that :P | 08:31 |
| ajmitch_ | so I put off the bug filing for now | 08:31 |
| ajmitch_ | doko can tell me off later ;) | 08:32 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: okay, I'll leave that for you and The Power, then :-) | 08:32 |
| ivoks | hm.. i filled it in malone | 08:32 |
| minghua | I'll add something saying just file against UNKNOWN for now, since doko did that for a multiverse package | 08:32 |
| minghua | ajmitch_: does that sound good to you? | 08:33 |
| ajmitch_ | minghua: ok | 08:33 |
| ivoks | bye | 08:44 |
| ajmitch_ | bye ivoks | 08:45 |
| === bur[n] er [~norml@c-67-173-243-73.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === bur[n] er has a question about releasing a .deb... would you not recommend using checkinstall? or is it not that simple? | ||
| bur[n] er | ooh... horribly passive questions... | 08:56 |
| Treenaks | checkinstall? | 09:03 |
| Treenaks | what's that? | 09:03 |
| ivoks | one question | 09:03 |
| ivoks | how do i atuomagically download -devs for compiling package? | 09:04 |
| Treenaks | ivoks: you don't? | 09:04 |
| Treenaks | ivoks: apt-get build-dep somepackage ? | 09:04 |
| Treenaks | ivoks: otherwise you'll have to do it yourself | 09:04 |
| ivoks | that's it | 09:04 |
| Treenaks | ANOTHER new mono?? | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 09:06 |
| jabra | damn you guys are all up this late? | 09:06 |
| ivoks | it's 9 | 09:06 |
| ivoks | AM | 09:06 |
| jabra | it is 3 am | 09:06 |
| Burgundavia | gnome-network <-- is there a reason this wasn't built for hoary and isn't being built for breezy? | 09:07 |
| Burgundavia | I haven't seen a ftbfs | 09:07 |
| jabra | aight guys later | 09:07 |
| === jabra -> bed | ||
| ivoks | bye | 09:07 |
| ivoks | goofrider nautilus --no-desktop | 09:09 |
| ivoks | damn... | 09:09 |
| bur[n] er | checkinstall makes a .deb for you... | 09:10 |
| bur[n] er | ./configure; make; checkinstall | 09:10 |
| ivoks | :)) | 09:10 |
| bur[n] er | pick .deb and bam :) | 09:10 |
| === bur[n] er was hoping to make a quick fluxbox package ;) | ||
| === goofrider_ [goofrider@dsl231-059-177.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === minghua [~minghua@ppp-69-153-138-159.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] | ||
| === aj [aj-irc@azure.humbug.org.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| tritium | Hi aj | 09:36 |
| aj | hola | 09:37 |
| aj | so, are there universe maintainers separate to MOTUs? | 09:37 |
| === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| tritium | No, I don't believe so. | 09:38 |
| ivoks | man, this tulip compiles for hours :) | 09:38 |
| aj | so are there only around 16 MOTUs, as per http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU ? | 09:38 |
| tritium | aj, that sounds about right, with many others working towards ubuntu membership/motuness | 09:39 |
| ivoks | :) | 09:39 |
| ivoks | aj a lot of other compile packages | 09:40 |
| aj | yeah, about twice that (35?) on MaintainerCandidates | 09:40 |
| ivoks | this 16 guys then reviw those packages | 09:40 |
| ivoks | and upload them | 09:40 |
| ajmitch_ | hello aj | 09:41 |
| tritium | aj, I don't think those wiki pages get updated frequently enought to be accurate | 09:41 |
| aj | ivoks: ah, that makes more sense | 09:41 |
| tritium | By the way, it's great to have you visit us, aj :) | 09:42 |
| aj | tritium: sure, indicative's more what i'm interested in | 09:42 |
| ajmitch_ | aj: I think the numbers are fairly accurate as to how many universe maintainers there are :) | 09:42 |
| tritium | aj, it should give you a rough order of magnitude | 09:42 |
| ivoks | there is Big Force behind MOTU :) | 09:42 |
| ivoks | look at CXX transition... only fools can do such task.. only fools and MOTU :) | 09:43 |
| ivoks | don't get me worng guys... | 09:43 |
| ivoks | ah... typo again | 09:43 |
| === ajmitch_ sets out with a lynch mob after ivoks | ||
| ivoks | :) | 09:43 |
| ajmitch_ | aj: thinking of joining us? :) | 09:44 |
| aj | ajmitch_: just lurking :) i have other plots to play with first anyway :) | 09:44 |
| ivoks | :) | 09:45 |
| ajmitch_ | yeah, I guess you'll be fairly busy with sarge | 09:45 |
| ajmitch_ | a pity we didn't see you at UDU | 09:45 |
| aj | ha, no way! vorlon and aba and kamion and djpig can worry about that | 09:45 |
| ajmitch_ | heh | 09:45 |
| aj | ajmitch_: i was there for a couple of days, sat in on some entertaining bofs | 09:45 |
| ajmitch_ | ah, I must have missed you | 09:45 |
| aj | ajmitch_: like the community council / aieee nautilus one :) | 09:45 |
| === ajmitch_ will have to try & get back to .au sometime soon | ||
| tritium | aj, are you using ubuntu these days? | 09:49 |
| aj | tritium: various; OS X on my laptop 'til i get a usb/wireless thing with an Ubuntu VM; warty or sarge/warty on a couple of desktops; sarge and warty on some servers | 09:49 |
| === ajmitch_ is too used to being called aj around here as well | ||
| aj | bah, sarge and woody on some servers | 09:50 |
| aj | ajmitch_: muahahahaha | 09:50 |
| tritium | aj, nice :) | 09:50 |
| aj | the OS X gui is so nice, pity the filesystem sucks so much | 09:50 |
| tritium | My wife's new G5 arrived just today. I'm playing around with OS X for the first time tonight. | 09:51 |
| ivoks | heh, i had too much time with osx | 09:51 |
| ivoks | i don't like it :( | 09:51 |
| tritium | I'm going to give it some time before I judge it | 09:52 |
| aj | Camino + Expose are nice; Thunderbird's pretty good as MUAs go | 09:52 |
| aj | and it has bash, ssh, terminals, and looks pretty | 09:52 |
| ivoks | and no /etc/passwd :) | 09:52 |
| aj | well, technically there's an /etc/passwd | 09:53 |
| tritium | Spotlight seems to be like beagle, and Dashboard reminds me of gdesklets | 09:53 |
| ivoks | aj, technically | 09:53 |
| ivoks | tritium open terminal, run top in it | 09:53 |
| ivoks | tritium then start dashboard | 09:53 |
| ivoks | :)) | 09:53 |
| tritium | ivoks, yeah, I can imagine... | 09:54 |
| ivoks | i didn't see ap that could swallow so much proc without doing anything :) | 09:54 |
| tritium | not that different from gdesklets, then | 09:54 |
| ivoks | tritium we are talking about 80% :) | 09:54 |
| ivoks | even gdesklets don't consume so much | 09:54 |
| tritium | wow | 09:55 |
| aj | oh, and Cmd-C/Cmd-V to copy and paste have really grown on me too | 09:55 |
| ivoks | tiger has one good thing new - KPI | 09:55 |
| ivoks | true | 09:56 |
| ivoks | shoutcuts are great on osx | 09:56 |
| ivoks | alt-f4 is... no comment, but win-q is much better | 09:56 |
| ivoks | or cmd-q :) | 09:57 |
| aj | cmd-tab, cmd-n, cmd-l, cmd-v # to switch to web browser, open a new window, go to the location bar, and paste a url isn't bad | 09:58 |
| aj | $ open http://foo/bar # is nice too | 09:58 |
| ivoks | aj that with cmd you can do in gnome too :) | 09:59 |
| aj | but, mmm, expose' | 09:59 |
| aj | ivoks: cmd-tab goes through apps, not windows -- so you don't have to worry about your n xterms to get to the web browser; and you can leave the web browser running even when it's got no windows open. but yeah | 10:00 |
| Lathiat | aj: hmm that couldbe a usefull feature | 10:00 |
| Lathiat | so are you the macosx release manager yet? | 10:01 |
| ivoks | aj i know :) and i like that | 10:01 |
| ivoks | aj i'm working in comp. that is based arround mac's | 10:01 |
| ivoks | aj i know all the good and all the bad stuf... | 10:01 |
| ivoks | aj enough is to say, that we are using only linux (sarge mostly) for servers :) | 10:02 |
| aj | ivoks: heh | 10:02 |
| ivoks | osx has broken cups | 10:02 |
| ivoks | broken samba | 10:02 |
| ivoks | ok, not broken, but partialy implented :) | 10:02 |
| aj | ugh, HP's printer/scanner software for my printer is so horrible | 10:02 |
| aj | and my camera software is too | 10:03 |
| aj | hrm, speaking of which, i should see if there's a driver for my camera yet for linux | 10:03 |
| ivoks | what camera? | 10:03 |
| tritium | ivoks, have you tried oggdrop, or anything else to play .ogg on OS X? | 10:05 |
| aj | IXUS 30, apparently it does PTP (which i'd never heard of) instead of mass-storage (which i tried and didn't work) | 10:05 |
| ivoks | tritium nope | 10:05 |
| tritium | my whole collection is in og... | 10:05 |
| Lathiat | most canon cameras do both | 10:06 |
| Lathiat | gphoto supports the ptp stuff | 10:06 |
| ivoks | yeah | 10:06 |
| ivoks | my canon 300d doesn't work with usb-storage | 10:06 |
| Lathiat | i can switch between both on my camera | 10:06 |
| Lathiat | if i goto options | 10:06 |
| ivoks | but does with gtkam and gthumb2 | 10:06 |
| ivoks | aj yep, IXUS works with gthumb2 | 10:07 |
| aj | can you mount ptp stuff, or do you have to go through an app? | 10:07 |
| Lathiat | aj: afaik through an app atm | 10:07 |
| Lathiat | you could probably implement it with fuse | 10:08 |
| ivoks | tritium i know that feeling... | 10:08 |
| ivoks | tritium i have lot of ogg's too, but mp3 player that doesn't know anything about ogg :( | 10:08 |
| tritium | ivoks, I bought an iRiver ifp800, which supports ogg, but their newer players don't... | 10:09 |
| ivoks | eh.. | 10:09 |
| doko | ajmitch_: ping | 10:16 |
| ivoks | lol | 10:16 |
| ajmitch_ | doko: yes? | 10:16 |
| ivoks | i'm repackaging herve's packages :) | 10:17 |
| tritium | it's nearly 3:30. I'm heading to bed. Good night, guys. | 10:19 |
| ivoks | night | 10:20 |
| ivoks | europe will take over now :) | 10:20 |
| tritium | nice talking with you, aj :) | 10:20 |
| ajmitch_ | night tritium | 10:20 |
| tritium | night ajmitch_ :) | 10:20 |
| === ajmitch_ wishes desperately for more bandwidth | ||
| ivoks | :/ | 10:21 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ adsl? | 10:21 |
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: 256Kbps | 10:22 |
| doko | ajmitch_: just add a note to bayonne, that it's an application, there no other packages depending to it. we will not rename it, but autobuild it after the transition | 10:22 |
| ajmitch_ | doko: that's fine, I expected it to build ok (as it did) | 10:22 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ i have couple of free UTP6... 1gbit/s | 10:23 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ and i have extra room for u :) | 10:24 |
| ajmitch_ | :P | 10:24 |
| ajmitch_ | maybe I should move to australia to get better bandwidth ;) | 10:24 |
| ivoks | :) | 10:25 |
| doko | ajmitch_: if for some reason, you have to upload packages, which are only rebuilt, don't use an -ubuntuX extension, but something like -buildX or -cxxX | 10:25 |
| ajmitch_ | alright | 10:25 |
| ajmitch_ | none of the ones so far are like that - I've done the libcommoncpp* & libcc* packages, as well as clanlib today | 10:26 |
| ajmitch_ | do you want bugs/patches filed in bugzilla? | 10:26 |
| doko | ajmitch_: yes, the idea is to have one common place for the whole transition. using UNKNOWN is just fine | 10:27 |
| ajmitch_ | ok, so not just the wiki then? :) | 10:27 |
| ajmitch_ | since that's what we've usually done | 10:27 |
| doko | ajmitch_: we want to reference the patch, and that one is included in the bug report | 10:28 |
| ajmitch_ | bugzilla & I are not friends | 10:28 |
| ajmitch_ | all packages are to be reviewed before uploading, even universe? | 10:28 |
| ivoks | i need a break... | 10:29 |
| doko | it would be nice, if somebody reviews some packages first. just have four eyes on the patch, so we don't end up with unbuildable applications | 10:30 |
| ajmitch_ | alright | 10:30 |
| === ajmitch_ is still waiting for the bugzilla page to load | ||
| ivoks | yes, it takes ages.. | 10:31 |
| ivoks | bye | 10:31 |
| === janm [~user@202.172.110.205] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| janm | hi everyone | 10:45 |
| ajmitch_ | hi janm | 10:50 |
| janm | I noticed a few java packages without an ubuntu revision (ubuntuX) and just wondering if these are the packages that needs fixing for breezy? | 10:51 |
| ajmitch_ | I wouldn't know, why do you think they'll need fixing? | 10:59 |
| ajmitch_ | is there something that needs to be done to all java packages? | 10:59 |
| janm | I'm just looking at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress, and there are packages that needs to be rebuilt against gcj-4.0. | 11:02 |
| === ajmitch_ takes a quick look | ||
| janm | and considering that packages from debian build-depends on jikes/kaffe, I thought some packages might need ubuntu-gcj love. :) | 11:04 |
| ajmitch_ | yeah, quite probably | 11:05 |
| ajmitch_ | :) | 11:05 |
| ajmitch_ | I haven't looked at java stuff at all | 11:05 |
| === herve [~hcauwelie@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | morning | 11:38 |
| ajmitch_ | hi herve | 11:39 |
| goofrider_ | is there a consensus on a JVM? | 12:01 |
| goofrider_ | i didn't think so | 12:01 |
| goofrider_ | janm, not that i'm a dev or maintainer, but I was rather skeptical about commiting to gcj/gij | 12:02 |
| goofrider_ | ajmitch_, don't look. Java in Ubuntu/Debian is just..um... a mess LOL | 12:03 |
| janm | goofrider_: I was actually talking to man-di awhile ago and he's saying that jikes is a better bytecode compiler compared to gcj. | 12:04 |
| goofrider_ | janm, i just think native java packages is a bad idea | 12:04 |
| goofrider_ | it's un-java | 12:04 |
| goofrider_ | janm, FYI, Fedora provides BOTH bytecode and native complied of Eclipse, not just native | 12:05 |
| goofrider_ | janm, I don't want to sound like a whiner. I want to contribute as well. But there's so much about Java packaging that needs to be resolved | 12:07 |
| ajmitch_ | goofrider_: yes, and that is why there are people committed to cleaning up the mess :P | 12:07 |
| goofrider_ | ajmitch_, can I help? I'm not an expert but I have plenty of time | 12:07 |
| goofrider_ | LOL | 12:07 |
| ajmitch_ | goofrider_: sure, but I'm definitely not the one to ask :) | 12:07 |
| goofrider_ | ajmitch_, well is there a java team in universe? | 12:08 |
| ajmitch_ | not that I'm aware of | 12:08 |
| janm | question is: Is JavaPackaging really committed to gcj at least for breezy? Because I don't want to start helping out and then suddenly somebody decides to switch to jikes or similar | 12:08 |
| ajmitch_ | I know jbailey is one of the people working on it | 12:08 |
| herve | theorically, there's one | 12:09 |
| goofrider_ | janm, I don't think there's a gcj commitment | 12:09 |
| ajmitch_ | http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaRoadmap | 12:09 |
| goofrider_ | reading | 12:09 |
| ajmitch_ | so.. jbailey & doko | 12:09 |
| herve | what team doko is not in? :-) | 12:10 |
| ajmitch_ | hmmm... :) | 12:10 |
| goofrider_ | ajmitch_, that roadmap is very authorative but yet very inconclusive LOL | 12:10 |
| goofrider_ | it mentioned ecj but not gcj | 12:11 |
| ajmitch_ | goofrider_: sure, it was just a discussion at UDU, you'd need to talk to the people involved :) | 12:11 |
| goofrider_ | janm, the JavaPackaging wikipage does not seem to be authorative nor a sign of commitment. It's a recommendation in progress | 12:12 |
| goofrider_ | AFAI can tell | 12:12 |
| janm | But http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress says something about gcj | 12:13 |
| goofrider_ | janm, that's just a recommendation for future plans | 12:13 |
| tseng | nothing from udu is "authoritive" we ran through > 100 specs in 6 days | 12:13 |
| ajmitch_ | it does refer to gcj indirectly, by referring to the toolchain roadmap | 12:14 |
| goofrider_ | tseng, at least it's more authorative that that JavaPackaingProgress page | 12:14 |
| tseng | im not sure what you even mean by authorative | 12:14 |
| ajmitch_ | hi tseng | 12:14 |
| tseng | hi | 12:15 |
| goofrider_ | oh wait.. JavaPackaging Progress is something different | 12:15 |
| goofrider_ | it's new | 12:15 |
| goofrider_ | oh wait it's not new, I read it long time ago | 12:15 |
| goofrider_ | janm, that page is pre-UDU | 12:15 |
| goofrider_ | janm, I think u see where I'm coming from. The Ubuntu Java plan is so unclear it's very heard to figure out how to help | 12:16 |
| goofrider_ | or who to ask | 12:17 |
| ajmitch_ | I've told you who to ask | 12:17 |
| goofrider_ | ajmitch_, yes I'll hunt them down | 12:18 |
| tseng | ogra: im ready for mono and gtk-sharp to go to main any time now | 12:19 |
| goofrider_ | janm, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress seems to be strictly a plan to get Eclipse packaged and running, not a general Java plan | 12:19 |
| janm | goofrider_: uhmm.. yeah. thanks. And I agree that we realy need to have an authoritative document for java stuff for breezy. | 12:19 |
| goofrider_ | janm, UDU wiki has more authorative documents about Java plans | 12:20 |
| goofrider_ | and more concrete | 12:20 |
| goofrider_ | janm can I pvt u? | 12:20 |
| tseng | ogra: that will pull monodoc also | 12:21 |
| === Nafallo [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| Lathiat | tseng: yay :) | 12:22 |
| === Nafallo == the_geek | ||
| Nafallo | :-P | 12:22 |
| ajmitch_ | hello Nafallo | 12:22 |
| Nafallo | I just wrote my national test in swedish :-P | 12:22 |
| Nafallo | hi ajmitch_ :-) | 12:23 |
| janm | ajmitch_: what's the proper channel for contacting the Java packaging leads? -devel? | 12:23 |
| ajmitch_ | janm: yeah, or email :) | 12:23 |
| janm | ajmitch_: thank you :) | 12:23 |
| goofrider_ | janm, there's a #ubuntu-java channel | 12:23 |
| Nafallo | I actually managed to advocate Ubuntu and Linux in an essay about the transform of the swedish language ;-). | 12:24 |
| Nafallo | s/transform/transformation/ | 12:24 |
| === Lathiat looks at Nafallo | ||
| Nafallo | Lathiat: hehe :-) | 12:25 |
| Nafallo | Lathiat: that look says that I'm right about being the_geek ;-)? | 12:26 |
| Lathiat | something like that | 12:26 |
| Nafallo | :-) | 12:27 |
| === koke [~koke@adsl229-164.unizar.es] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === ivoks [~ivoks@lns01-0829.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ivoks | hi | 12:41 |
| Nafallo | hi ivoks | 12:43 |
| ivoks | Nafallo hello | 12:43 |
| ivoks | i recompiled whole vtk package... build it | 12:44 |
| ivoks | then was time for install | 12:44 |
| ivoks | but... i didn't see one thing in rules... and how how to recompile it again | 12:44 |
| ivoks | that sucks :) | 12:44 |
| ivoks | nubious that's vmware related | 12:48 |
| herve | ivoks, just run debuild again | 12:50 |
| ivoks | herve that's yours package :) | 12:50 |
| ivoks | bad rules, bad bad rules :) | 12:50 |
| ivoks | mv, cp, etc... :) | 12:51 |
| herve | ? | 12:51 |
| herve | I just fixed it | 12:51 |
| herve | which gave me the hell of a time | 12:51 |
| ivoks | ? | 12:51 |
| ivoks | wait | 12:51 |
| ivoks | 4.2.6-5ubuntu1? | 12:51 |
| ivoks | vtk | 12:52 |
| herve | yes, python transition | 12:52 |
| herve | see the changelog | 12:52 |
| herve | I wonder if a resync with debian 4.4 is not worth | 12:52 |
| ivoks | yes, but... | 12:52 |
| ivoks | i'm doing cxx transition | 12:53 |
| ogra | morning all | 12:53 |
| ivoks | and packages should be named with c2, shouldn't they? | 12:53 |
| ivoks | and the wiki is empty, no signs of any work | 12:53 |
| ajmitch_ | library packages should, yes | 12:53 |
| tseng | hi ogra | 12:53 |
| ajmitch_ | empty? | 12:53 |
| ogra | tseng, thats great, so lets do it monday, we'll need elmo around i guess.... | 12:53 |
| ajmitch_ | hi ogra | 12:54 |
| tseng | yes | 12:54 |
| ivoks | ajmitch_ for that package | 12:54 |
| Nafallo | hi ogra | 12:54 |
| tseng | i just uploaded fixed monodoc | 12:54 |
| ogra | saw it :) | 12:54 |
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: because the list has only been up a day or so? | 12:54 |
| === trulux [~lorenzo@trulux.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ajmitch_ | hello trulux | 12:55 |
| herve | ivoks, do wether you need, but leave python 2.4 as default | 12:55 |
| ivoks | herve i'm doing: | 12:55 |
| herve | and think about using the newest 4.4 from debian | 12:55 |
| ivoks | rename libvtk4 to libvtk4c2 | 12:55 |
| ivoks | rename python-vtk to python-vtkc2 | 12:55 |
| ivoks | rename vtk-cl to vtk-clc2 | 12:55 |
| === herve should read the transition notes | ||
| ajmitch_ | ivoks: no | 12:56 |
| trulux | hey ajmitch_ | 12:56 |
| ivoks | ok, no... | 12:56 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: what's up? | 12:56 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: dcc there? | 12:56 |
| ajmitch_ | libvtk4->libvtk4c2 | 12:56 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: nope | 12:56 |
| ivoks | just that one? | 12:56 |
| ivoks | yeah.. only libs | 12:56 |
| ajmitch_ | but you do not need to change python-vtk or vtk-cl | 12:56 |
| ivoks | not interp... | 12:56 |
| ivoks | yeah... mistake | 12:57 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: starting on the c++ transition, merge work, etc | 12:57 |
| herve | and you said you have no time :-) | 12:57 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: ok, I'll send you by email the new spec. | 12:57 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: I don't have any time ;) | 12:57 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: C++ transition is going to be a royal pain | 12:57 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: in a few weeks I'll really be able to start working & doing stuff | 12:58 |
| ajmitch_ | but I have to get certain things (like SELinux etc) in by feature freeze | 12:58 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: why will it be a pain? | 12:59 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: due to API changes, the shitload of work, etc | 01:00 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: we'll manage | 01:00 |
| herve | we always manage :-) | 01:01 |
| === ogra installs build deps for f-spot .... | ||
| === ajmitch_ has a separate chroot setup for breezy dev & sid work now | ||
| === Nafallo doesn't like {se,de}.a.u.c :-/. | ||
| ajmitch_ | in addition to the spare machines ;) | 01:03 |
| ajmitch_ | ogra: I got my 5 done today ;) | 01:03 |
| ogra | yay | 01:03 |
| ajmitch_ | dpatch-edit-patch is a wonderful tool | 01:03 |
| ivoks | herve you said something about reviewing packages :) | 01:07 |
| herve | he he | 01:07 |
| ivoks | herve http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs/ (ignore gnome cups) | 01:07 |
| herve | which one? | 01:08 |
| ivoks | herve all :) | 01:08 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: which address did you send to? | 01:08 |
| ivoks | there are two for now... | 01:08 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: gnu.org | 01:09 |
| herve | cxx transition? | 01:09 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: ok, hopefully it arrives then | 01:09 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: hehe | 01:09 |
| ivoks | herve yes | 01:10 |
| ajmitch_ | since it hasn't showed up there yet | 01:10 |
| herve | ivoks, I'll read the transition notes then | 01:10 |
| ivoks | :) | 01:10 |
| ivoks | ok... there is workaround for firefox in ubuntu | 01:11 |
| herve | can I ask a silly question? | 01:11 |
| herve | ivoks, yes, in about:config | 01:11 |
| ajmitch_ | sure | 01:11 |
| ajmitch_ | this place is full of silly questions ;) | 01:11 |
| herve | how do you upload packages for others? | 01:11 |
| herve | just sign the .changes? | 01:11 |
| ajmitch_ | I prefer to extract them, look over the package, debuild -S -k61434dd6 | 01:12 |
| ajmitch_ | which is my key | 01:12 |
| herve | ok, sign the whole source package | 01:13 |
| herve | ivoks, do you know if your email is whitelisted? | 01:13 |
| ajmitch_ | well that signs the .dsc * source_changes | 01:14 |
| ivoks | herve no | 01:14 |
| ivoks | herve i think it isn't | 01:14 |
| herve | you never received mail from katie about your uploads? | 01:14 |
| ivoks | nope | 01:15 |
| ivoks | i never upload anything :) | 01:15 |
| herve | you didn't say you fixed some packages, | 01:15 |
| herve | ? | 01:15 |
| ivoks | hm...? | 01:16 |
| herve | probably confusing again :-) | 01:16 |
| ivoks | no, i created wifi-radar and this sources for cxx | 01:16 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: got it? | 01:18 |
| ajmitch_ | yes | 01:19 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: does it look good for you? | 01:22 |
| ajmitch_ | I haven't read it yet | 01:22 |
| ajmitch_ | I am presently trying to hunt down a cd I need for tomorrow | 01:23 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: OK, there's no hurry, well, it can't take too much more, but there are other things to do | 01:23 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: I'll check my Breezy box today and rebuild some packages | 01:24 |
| trulux | ;) | 01:24 |
| ajmitch_ | have fun | 01:24 |
| === ajmitch_ is currently reading | ||
| trulux | dpkg with selinux ready | 01:24 |
| ajmitch_ | manoj's work? | 01:24 |
| ajmitch_ | I've grabbed his arch branches, haven't built packages yet | 01:24 |
| trulux | gonna rebuild some shit as pitti told me, and fix the krsec thingy 'cos I broke it yesterday at 02:00am | 01:24 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: OK, we can organize our work, so, we get things done together in less time | 01:25 |
| ajmitch_ | I'd like to get package patching out of the way in the next week or so | 01:25 |
| trulux | at least until I get the TFT this afternoon andx plug the Hoary bo | 01:25 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: me too | 01:25 |
| ajmitch_ | and just focus on policy & tools after that | 01:25 |
| ajmitch_ | since that is the bulk of the work | 01:25 |
| === ajmitch_ can do pygtk fairly well, no issues there :) | ||
| doko | ivoks: ping | 01:26 |
| ivoks | doko | 01:26 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: OK, then we have another thing that is not specified in the spec: Red Hat tools for SELInux config. | 01:26 |
| ivoks | yes? | 01:26 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: they are python-based | 01:26 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: also a Gnome applet to enable/disable SELinux at runtime, see the threshold of AVC, etc | 01:27 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: fedora's config tools was mentioned | 01:28 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: the latter is almost done but I need a pygtk hacker to get it completely working, I've lost a lot of py-fu | 01:28 |
| ajmitch_ | I can do that | 01:28 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: right, I mentioned them here before the UDU | 01:28 |
| === ajmitch_ uses python at least weekly | ||
| ajmitch_ | you did? :) | 01:28 |
| === ajmitch_ probably forgot | ||
| ajmitch_ | either way, I put them in the UDU spec | 01:28 |
| doko | ivoks: please don't rename python-vtk and vtk-tcl | 01:28 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: yeah, kamikaze thing, they have tweaked a lot the classes and the like | 01:29 |
| ivoks | doko i didn't | 01:29 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: so, you can't just take them and use them | 01:29 |
| ajmitch_ | I remember now, I was trying to get them to run after you checked them out | 01:29 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: I will start rsync'ing stuff to pearls.tuxedo-es.org when the flippin box becomes alive again | 01:29 |
| ivoks | doko they are as is, libvtk gets c2 suffix | 01:29 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: I noticed the wiki was dead.. | 01:30 |
| === ajmitch_ still has his main home box | ||
| ajmitch_ | the pam problem is that other packages supply pam config files, iirc | 01:30 |
| ajmitch_ | so they'd need to be fixed for pam 0.78 (0.79 is current, btw) | 01:30 |
| doko | ivoks: ok | 01:31 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: yep, everything is dead. we (at OFTC) are firewalling the box(es), but andromeda had serious hd failure | 01:31 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: there are back-ups though | 01:31 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: and probably the staff will get it online again today | 01:31 |
| ajmitch_ | manoj is working on looking over all the pam patches, using the latest from FC4+0.79, and presenting it to the debian maintainer | 01:31 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: by now, all I can do is send stuff by email, DCC and the like | 01:31 |
| ajmitch_ | that's a shame | 01:31 |
| ivoks | hm... | 01:32 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: these things happen ;( | 01:32 |
| === ajmitch_ ought to backup more of his work on dvds.. | ||
| trulux | ajmitch_: no, all my work is in back-ups and I have it here | 01:32 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: I mean tuxedo-es.org box | 01:32 |
| ivoks | i should start using "preview" on wikis | 01:33 |
| trulux | tuxed-es.org and the other hosts are in the OFTC network, some are just mirrors that get rsync'ed, others connect to helium and the rest with andromeda | 01:33 |
| ajmitch_ | right | 01:33 |
| trulux | andromeda is dead, so, only mirrors are up | 01:33 |
| trulux | it's good 'cos people don't notice the down-time, but it' a fsck-up to those like me who want to put some crack of the day ;) | 01:34 |
| === ajmitch_ is a little unclear on the spec here - is the gcc3.4 in main planned to have ssp? | ||
| trulux | anyways, here we go: we have the spec, the plans done and a TODO list which can be well reviewed by pitti | 01:34 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: right | 01:34 |
| ivoks | bye guys... rest of the day i have to study... | 01:34 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: ok, I guess doko, pitti & mdz will all have to sign off on that one | 01:35 |
| trulux | ivoks: I should be doing that now, but well, found that my laptop didn't shut down yesterday | 01:35 |
| ivoks | :) | 01:35 |
| trulux | ivoks: (one of my senseless excuses) | 01:35 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: right | 01:35 |
| ivoks | herve i'll upload vtk in couple of hours, so you could check that too | 01:35 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: regarding patching our kernels, well, I like more the idea of vsecurity, but, if it works, we can just live with them | 01:36 |
| ajmitch_ | execshield is low priority? | 01:36 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: yes | 01:36 |
| herve | ivoks, you checked version 4.4? | 01:36 |
| ivoks | trulux i'm telling my self every hour "i'll start at 12" "i'll start at 1PM"... | 01:36 |
| ivoks | herve no | 01:36 |
| ivoks | herve 4.2.6 | 01:36 |
| ajmitch_ | ok, nothing too controversial in the spec then - I'll mainly focus on SELinux, I think | 01:36 |
| herve | I'd like to sync again with debian | 01:36 |
| herve | we can't live with an old vtk forever | 01:37 |
| ivoks | ok | 01:37 |
| ivoks | hehe | 01:37 |
| ivoks | ok, then you'll do it? | 01:37 |
| \sh | moin | 01:37 |
| trulux | ivoks: well, I'm not n +1, so, I'm more like s/girls , where s is studying time and girls are the number of times I've met a girl last week | 01:37 |
| ivoks | i can put control up | 01:37 |
| trulux | ivoks: /E | 01:37 |
| ajmitch_ | vtk in Debian (4.4.2-6) is newer than BrUniverse (4.2.6-5ubuntu1) | 01:37 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: yeah, looks like you'd want to.. | 01:37 |
| ivoks | trulux :) | 01:38 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: me too, we'll work together if that's OK for you | 01:38 |
| \sh | *yawn* whats the time? | 01:38 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: sure.. | 01:38 |
| ajmitch_ | \sh: about 11:38PM | 01:38 |
| \sh | utc? | 01:38 |
| ivoks | herve ok, then you do that package... i don't have time anymore this weekend | 01:38 |
| herve | will try | 01:38 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: looks like an easy merge | 01:38 |
| \sh | looks like that i have to huarry up to get some food before the shops are closing..*grmpf* | 01:38 |
| \sh | bbl | 01:38 |
| ivoks | maybe i'll do something around midnight :) | 01:38 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: now I'm br, must get a shower and dress up as the other humans do, or they'll catch me up and show me in the next X Files episode | 01:39 |
| ajmitch_ | trulux: sure.. | 01:39 |
| ivoks | bye | 01:39 |
| trulux | brb | 01:39 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: update it, put in the c++ fixes, and upload after tuesday | 01:39 |
| ajmitch_ | simple ;) | 01:39 |
| herve | ajmitch_, all transitions I thought simple turned into a pita :-/ | 01:40 |
| ajmitch_ | herve: hehe, so far it's not been too hard :) | 01:40 |
| ajmitch_ | I've written some scripts to organise my workflow, it's helped a lot | 01:40 |
| ajmitch_ | :0:> ./stats.sh 6 UPLOAD-READY 1 PENDING | 01:40 |
| ajmitch_ | it shows that I've got 6 done, one not started for the c++ transition | 01:41 |
| ajmitch_ | 300 pending, 11 done for merges ;) | 01:41 |
| herve | reading those cxx pages is already a task in itself | 01:43 |
| ajmitch_ | yep | 01:44 |
| herve | ajmitch_, you talked about tuesday | 01:45 |
| herve | the big move hasn't begun? | 01:45 |
| ajmitch_ | no, you're not allowed to upload until g++ 4.0 is default in breezy | 01:46 |
| herve | so we're just testing using doko's repository for now? | 01:46 |
| ajmitch_ | no, we're building packages that will be uploaded | 01:46 |
| ajmitch_ | but the autobuilders still have 3.3 as default | 01:46 |
| herve | good, vtk can wait on tuesday! | 01:47 |
| doko | herve: yes, just insert the line given in the wiki | 01:47 |
| ajmitch_ | hi again doko :) | 01:50 |
| doko | morning, ajmitch_ | 01:52 |
| herve | build dep on cppunit becoming cppunit (>= 1.10.2) | 01:57 |
| herve | is it ok for you? | 01:58 |
| herve | looks like ivoks filed his change in malone, not bugzilla | 02:00 |
| doko | herve: which package? | 02:31 |
| trulux | back to the battleground | 02:31 |
| herve | doko, one of ivoks', tulip or zipios++ | 02:31 |
| herve | checking... | 02:31 |
| ajmitch_ | night all | 02:32 |
| === ogra [~ogra@p5089E62A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | zipios++ | 02:32 |
| herve | night ajmitch_ | 02:32 |
| herve | where bugs to the wiki should go? | 02:38 |
| doko | herve: sorry, don't understand your last question | 02:42 |
| ogra | herve, there is a website component in bugzilla | 02:42 |
| ogra | herve, but i heard they dont get assigned properly.... | 02:43 |
| doko | no, choose Ubuntu, then component UNKNOWN | 02:43 |
| herve | doko, ivoks changed cppunit to cppunit (>= 1.10.2) for zipios++ | 02:43 |
| herve | I didn't see anything about this on the wiki page | 02:43 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: you're going to bed? what time is there? | 02:43 |
| trulux | ajmitch_: anyways, sleep well :D | 02:44 |
| herve | trulux, [13:38:48] ajmitch_ \sh: about 11:38PM | 02:44 |
| herve | I let you compute the timeshift :-) | 02:44 |
| trulux | herve: hehe | 02:44 |
| === motaboy [~motaboy@host120-39.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === Nafallo [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === ivoks [~ivoks@lns01-0829.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | ivoks, there you are! | 02:52 |
| ivoks | :) | 02:52 |
| ivoks | i hate studying :) | 02:52 |
| herve | ivoks, can you explain to a n00b like me why changing build dep cppunit to cppunit (>= 1.10.2) for zipios++ ? | 02:53 |
| ivoks | ? | 02:53 |
| ivoks | i didn't do that | 02:53 |
| ivoks | or maybe? hm.. | 02:53 |
| ivoks | grrrr | 02:54 |
| herve | :-) | 02:54 |
| doko | herve, ivoks: this build dependency should be cppunit (>= 1.10.2-3ubuntu1), because it needs to be built against the transitioned cppunit packages | 02:55 |
| doko | s/should/must/ | 02:55 |
| ivoks | hm | 02:56 |
| herve | "should" is nice too | 02:56 |
| herve | "do not do differently unless you have a fucking good reason!" | 02:56 |
| herve | :-) | 02:56 |
| herve | anyway, thanks doko | 02:56 |
| ivoks | i didn't change that! | 02:56 |
| ivoks | :( | 02:56 |
| herve | debdiff tells me so | 02:57 |
| ivoks | hm | 02:57 |
| ivoks | ok | 02:57 |
| ivoks | i'll do new one | 02:57 |
| doko | ivoks: you can't, cppunit isn't done yet. | 02:58 |
| ivoks | can u dcc diff to me? | 02:58 |
| ivoks | oh... | 02:58 |
| doko | 10 minutes ... | 02:59 |
| herve | ivoks, anyway, I cannot upload until tuesday | 02:59 |
| ivoks | ok | 02:59 |
| ivoks | something is wrong with 2.6.12 :( | 03:01 |
| ivoks | herve are other packages ok? | 03:02 |
| herve | looks like | 03:03 |
| herve | but I'm all new to toolchain and c++ stuff | 03:04 |
| herve | I hope I didn't miss out anything | 03:04 |
| ivoks | just a seconde guys | 03:06 |
| ivoks | how can I build package that depends on cpuit++ X.Y.Z-4 | 03:07 |
| ivoks | if i have X.Y.Z-3 version? | 03:07 |
| ivoks | herve i'm new to whole this packaging stuff so I need some help in the begining... | 03:08 |
| herve | ivoks, if your package can't find its requirements, it's a FTBFS (fails to build from source) | 03:09 |
| ivoks | ok | 03:09 |
| herve | remember doko have a repository with gcc 4.0 stuff as the default compilers | 03:09 |
| ivoks | yes, i know it has | 03:10 |
| herve | this will be activated on the autobuilders on tuesday | 03:10 |
| ivoks | didn't understand why do I need it | 03:10 |
| ivoks | i have gcc4 (breezy) | 03:10 |
| herve | the point is gcc->gcc4 and g++->g++4 | 03:10 |
| herve | g++ is still 3.4 for now | 03:10 |
| ivoks | i know | 03:10 |
| ivoks | ah... | 03:10 |
| ivoks | ok... | 03:11 |
| === motaboy [~motaboy@host5-41.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ivoks | but there is g++ in breezy | 03:12 |
| ivoks | g++4 | 03:12 |
| ivoks | ah, well... | 03:13 |
| doko | herve, ivoks: the repository is upadated. please add to /etc/apt/sources.list: | 03:13 |
| herve | ivoks, see the package gcc-defaults | 03:13 |
| doko | deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./ | 03:13 |
| herve | doko, still in a chroot? | 03:13 |
| koke | hey, it seems my scripts for extracting patches is working!! :) | 03:14 |
| koke | http://hermes.amedias.org/~koke/ubuntu/universe-transition/patches/ | 03:14 |
| doko | sure, or you get most of your desktop removed, if you install some of these libraries | 03:14 |
| === koke goes for lunch | ||
| herve | :-) | 03:14 |
| ivoks | hm...? | 03:14 |
| ivoks | so, i should have chrooted enviorment? :) | 03:15 |
| ivoks | untill i figure out all details, transition will be over, and breezy will be outdated :) | 03:15 |
| herve | no | 03:16 |
| herve | apt-get install debootstrap :-) | 03:16 |
| ivoks | reading man | 03:17 |
| ivoks | jesus... | 03:17 |
| ivoks | i can't download all this stuff over dsl | 03:17 |
| ivoks | i'll gave to go to uni | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | everyone else does | 03:18 |
| Lathiat | what speed connection do you have? | 03:18 |
| herve | dsl? it's all enough | 03:18 |
| ivoks | but dsl isn't cheap here :( | 03:18 |
| ivoks | it's not about speed | 03:19 |
| ivoks | what the hell... let's go | 03:19 |
| Nafallo | ivoks: I run on partial mirror (i386+amd64+src) on DSL (512/512kbit) ;-) | 03:19 |
| ivoks | Nafallo you have flat rate | 03:19 |
| ivoks | i don't | 03:19 |
| ivoks | i pay every MB | 03:19 |
| Lathiat | my dsl is 1500/256, im lucky | 03:20 |
| Nafallo | ivoks: hmm, that sucks :-P | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | ivoks: ouch what kinda of deal are you on | 03:20 |
| ivoks | fu*** monopol | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | even in australia you dont pay per M | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | but its pretty expensive here | 03:20 |
| ivoks | well... we have T-Com. | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | i pay like twice as much as people in otehr countries who get DSL twice as fast and no quota (i get 10GB quota) | 03:20 |
| herve | ivoks, you should look at apt mirrors | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | ivoks: we have telstra | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | they basically monopolise the market | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | and own most of the dslams | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | there are lots of isps | 03:20 |
| Lathiat | but they all pay telstra money to use their dslams | 03:21 |
| herve | ok, I wouldn't tell you have 6MB+telephone+television for 30 eur/m in France ;-) | 03:21 |
| Lathiat | see | 03:21 |
| Lathiat | i pay.. | 03:21 |
| Lathiat | 45 euros | 03:21 |
| Lathiat | for a 1.5/256 connection with 10GB peak and 10Gb off-peak quota | 03:21 |
| Lathiat | and thats cheap | 03:21 |
| ivoks | lol | 03:22 |
| trulux | Christ | 03:22 |
| ivoks | here is 50euros for flatrate | 03:22 |
| ivoks | but | 03:22 |
| === prevod [prevod@P1-244-20029.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ivoks | the slowest one | 03:22 |
| trulux | I pay 39 for 512/128 with no quota limit | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | and i pay 15 ueors for the basic phone service | 03:22 |
| ivoks | omg | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | plus calls | 03:22 |
| ivoks | t-com sucks | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | and probably another 10-15 euros | 03:22 |
| herve | trulux, I pay 10 for this | 03:22 |
| Nafallo | 32 euro for 512/512 here in sweden. | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | for other crack on my phone | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | 512/512 with 20GB quota is like 50 | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | converting currencies hurts my brain | 03:23 |
| Lathiat | thank god theres an irc bot on another channel to do it for me | 03:23 |
| ivoks | herve so debootstratp breezy ./ubuntu-cxx http://archive.hr.ubuntu.com ? | 03:23 |
| Lathiat | bbs reboot, Xorg is using 120% emory | 03:23 |
| Nafallo | you can get 8/1Mbit ADSL for 21.5 euro if you're on the right station though. | 03:23 |
| herve | ivoks, looks like, but you'll want some apt cache, no? | 03:23 |
| trulux | well, here I don't watch TV except for movies, my books are normally on PS or PDF, the ones which aren't were donated by a friend or someone who thinks I do useful stuff around, boradband is maybe the exception | 03:23 |
| Lathiat | ivoks: keep in mind thatl download like 100M+ | 03:23 |
| trulux | in Spain broadband is pure shit AFAIK | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | Nafallo: ugh | 03:24 |
| ivoks | heh... Lathiat only? :) | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | you can get 8/1 here for $60aud+ | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | but you have to bundle with there phone service | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | which is more expensive than standard | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | and also | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | you only get like 10GB quota | 03:24 |
| Nafallo | Sweden have quota on 100Mbit :-P | 03:24 |
| Lathiat | (thats ~36 euros) | 03:24 |
| mjr | some 45 eur for 8/1 here; reasonable | 03:24 |
| trulux | I don't use the phone, I let people call me except for special cases | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | mjr: unlimited? | 03:25 |
| mjr | yes | 03:25 |
| Nafallo | 300GB/month, but that's the only quotas I'm aware of. | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | trulux: the problem is you *have* to have a phone service to have DSL | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | Nafallo: fucking hell | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | the biggest quota you can get on the 8/1 | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | is 40/40 | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | (peak, off-peak) | 03:25 |
| trulux | Lathiat: yes, but that's a static cost, like 10 per month to have the line | 03:25 |
| herve | Lathiat, I wouldn't pay the telephone line, it's included | 03:25 |
| herve | bye bye monopoly | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | its at least 15 euros for a basic phone service here | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | and the telephone and internet stuff is separate | 03:26 |
| trulux | and well, I maintain my home line (you can make it independent by installing a "special device" which is just a shit that connects your wire to their one) | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | (and that 15 euros doesnt include any calls, local calls cost..) | 03:26 |
| trulux | Lathiat: yep, I don't call so often | 03:26 |
| trulux | VoIP rocks ;) | 03:26 |
| ivoks | retriving :) | 03:27 |
| Lathiat | yeh voip is good | 03:27 |
| ivoks | i don't belive I'm doing this :) | 03:27 |
| Nafallo | VoIP is fun :-) | 03:27 |
| Lathiat | ivoks: arent you paying? :\ | 03:27 |
| === Nafallo got phonenumbers in three cities within sweden now ;-). | ||
| ivoks | Lathiat 512MB = 20kn.. that's about 3 euros | 03:27 |
| Lathiat | thats okish | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | i pay 0.4c/MB at uni | 03:28 |
| ivoks | i pay nothing at uni | 03:28 |
| ivoks | i'm admin :) | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | which is $410 AUD | 03:28 |
| trulux | Lathiat: shit | 03:28 |
| ivoks | and i have gbit/s there | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | (for a gigabyte of traffic) | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | thats 250 euros | 03:29 |
| ivoks | omg | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | actually i lied | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | thats wrong | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | its $41 AUD | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | so its 25 euros | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | i think | 03:29 |
| ivoks | that's better | 03:29 |
| trulux | ivoks: well, in Spain we have Rediris but it's only for research usage, among the backbones and the like for universities, etc | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | maybe more liek 30 | 03:29 |
| trulux | the problem is the network topology here, I could say that we depend on very concrete nodes | 03:30 |
| ivoks | trulux this is CARNet (http://www.carnet.hr) also research network | 03:30 |
| trulux | ivoks: :) | 03:30 |
| ivoks | trulux but CARNet likes Linux and created own version of Debian | 03:30 |
| trulux | ivoks: well, Rediris seems to like old SunOS buggy crappy shittish boxes | 03:30 |
| ivoks | trulux if u say "It's for Linux", they say "Rock on!" | 03:30 |
| Nafallo | damn do I want 10/10Mbit and static IP. | 03:31 |
| trulux | ivoks: here in Spain there's some of FOSS movement but well, I doubt a lot on the underlying philosophy | 03:31 |
| ivoks | Nafallo yes | 03:31 |
| ivoks | :) | 03:31 |
| Nafallo | but I live in the wrong area of this damn city :-P | 03:31 |
| trulux | ivoks: too many business men | 03:31 |
| trulux | ivoks: and it kinda stinks, also the education. they take everyone at the same point, not as Germany does | 03:32 |
| ivoks | trulux FOSS needs buisness man | 03:32 |
| ivoks | men | 03:32 |
| trulux | ivoks: FOSS needs an underlying philosophy, and it can't be the philosophy of "I take whatever my balls want, you know?" | 03:32 |
| ivoks | ok, i'll study tomorrow :) | 03:32 |
| ivoks | trulux true | 03:33 |
| trulux | ivoks: I'm planning to move out this messy country ;) | 03:33 |
| Nafallo | yay! specs for darkelf online :-) | 03:33 |
| ivoks | trulux i was in barcelona once | 03:33 |
| trulux | ivoks: or I will get someone's nose bleeding ;P | 03:33 |
| Nafallo | now I just have to do ogre, silverfairy, goblin and angel to :-P. | 03:33 |
| ivoks | trulux lot of people say that too in croatia | 03:33 |
| trulux | ivoks: Barcelona is much better than Madrid AFAIK | 03:34 |
| ivoks | trulux but i'm thinking this way "man, we don't have anything, nothing was developed for 50 years" | 03:34 |
| trulux | Madrid has been under the control of the right wing for too much time | 03:34 |
| ivoks | trulux "our economy sucks, isn't this right place and time to sell ideas and products which WORK?" | 03:34 |
| trulux | but well, people is stupid, they choose that, and now they get fucked with it. Nothing wrong ;) | 03:34 |
| trulux | ivoks: right | 03:34 |
| ivoks | first time i saw ubuntu I was surprised | 03:35 |
| ivoks | i contaced local LUG | 03:35 |
| ivoks | that was year ago.. | 03:35 |
| ivoks | but no... for them Mandrake is like a God | 03:36 |
| trulux | ivoks: the point is, in the History, some countries spent much more time than the rest on investing, supporting and taking care of the out-stdnading minds that were in the worst situations you can even imagine, watching how their ideas were in jail with no possible solution, watching their dreams going out of the barriers of their jails leaving them alone | 03:36 |
| ivoks | trulux we had 50 years of 'if u say you don't think so, you get in jail" | 03:37 |
| ivoks | and jail was good place, among others.. | 03:37 |
| trulux | ivoks: we had 30, and there's a lot to tell about that, some that people have NFC | 03:37 |
| trulux | ivoks: you know, here people shit on those go take military service, that go to war | 03:37 |
| trulux | but those are the most poor people | 03:38 |
| ivoks | ok... we are offtopic :) | 03:38 |
| trulux | those who can't pay the bitching university to go to the Icade or other fscking only-rich-pockets school | 03:38 |
| Lathiat | offtopic? when are we ever on topic :) | 03:38 |
| ivoks | :) | 03:38 |
| ivoks | i just don't want to see wars, guns and anything alike anymore | 03:38 |
| trulux | and must study while taking the weapons to give defense their country, and to those who say they are just killers | 03:39 |
| ivoks | man, that sucks... | 03:39 |
| ivoks | you can't imagine what happend here... | 03:39 |
| trulux | I can do, if there's something that interests me in life more than this, that's History. It makes you independent and able to understand today's fights and situations | 03:39 |
| trulux | I recommend you to look for the war of Ifni | 03:40 |
| trulux | lemme take a look for an URL | 03:40 |
| ivoks | no, don't | 03:40 |
| ivoks | i don't like wars | 03:40 |
| trulux | ivoks: say that when someone wants to crunch your country and those who you love and care about | 03:41 |
| ivoks | when i was young, i dream about flying and being fighter pilot | 03:41 |
| ivoks | trulux that happend here | 03:41 |
| ivoks | trulux and look at us now | 03:41 |
| trulux | I'm talking on being patriot, not a fascist killer | 03:41 |
| trulux | http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_olvidada | 03:41 |
| ivoks | i know.. | 03:41 |
| ivoks | but look at croatia | 03:41 |
| trulux | "the forgotten war" | 03:41 |
| ivoks | just take a minute and look at us | 03:41 |
| ivoks | we fighted for our livec | 03:41 |
| ivoks | lives | 03:41 |
| ivoks | we've beeten one of most powerfull armys in europe | 03:42 |
| ivoks | just to have our contry after so many years of pressure | 03:42 |
| ivoks | and look at politics now | 03:42 |
| trulux | people on Spain have mostly NFC on it, but one member of my family is a veteran of that war. He learnt and shared duty, honour and real friendship with those who were putting their life at risk at Sidi Ifni while rich men were partying at Spain | 03:42 |
| ivoks | everybody says WE are killers, WE don't like Serbs, WE this, WE that... | 03:42 |
| ivoks | omg... | 03:42 |
| ivoks | when Serbs bommbed my town, I was building a house | 03:43 |
| trulux | my uncle couldn't pay they money that the government asked for leaving the military service, nor he wanted | 03:43 |
| ivoks | and workes were Serbs | 03:43 |
| ivoks | come on... what hate? we don't hate anyone... | 03:44 |
| ivoks | that's why i like linux, noone asks where u from, what nationality | 03:44 |
| trulux | I don't hate people, I hate their actions ;) | 03:44 |
| ivoks | all of us just want to do better operating system | 03:45 |
| herve | see you later | 03:45 |
| trulux | and? we are all conditioned by personal situations, by feelings | 03:45 |
| ivoks | bye | 03:45 |
| trulux | you can't take them out and jail them so you are independent of what you feel | 03:45 |
| ivoks | phone | 03:45 |
| trulux | ivoks: cu | 03:45 |
| trulux | anyways, I dislike to talk about this, we could talk about it some other day, it doesn't do any good to me, nor I think most people can understand what I'm talking about, but that's out there. Read as much books on History as you can, from those in left and right wing, from fascists, socialists or anyone. You must get the points and ideas from everyone and then make your own ones. | 03:47 |
| trulux | then you'll be free ;) | 03:47 |
| ivoks | hehe | 03:47 |
| ivoks | or you can refuse to think about that at all :) | 03:47 |
| trulux | no kidding, I'm not joking on it | 03:48 |
| trulux | not, you can't | 03:48 |
| trulux | avoiding problems can make you falling in them again | 03:48 |
| ivoks | trulux that's true | 03:48 |
| === Danten [~danten@h105n6c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| trulux | think on those who fall in the drugs world, too deep that they can't live without them, their families leave them alone, etc | 03:48 |
| trulux | but they even take the chance of fighting against that | 03:49 |
| trulux | and get living again and caring about life, like a re-birth from the ashes that others made out of him because of their fascist thinking | 03:49 |
| trulux | you know, I feel like kicking the heads of those teenagers that stay in the street drinkign alcohol, sniffing coke and the like, while that money and effort could be spent to prevent people dying of starvation and sadness in that thign we call the third world | 03:50 |
| trulux | (as you can see, FOSS is a personal thing to me, but as the underlying philosoy behind it) | 03:51 |
| trulux | philosophy | 03:51 |
| ivoks | i see you are very passionat | 03:51 |
| trulux | ivoks: right, sometimes it causes me problems ;) | 03:52 |
| ivoks | i'm sure it does :) | 03:52 |
| trulux | but normally it makes me stronger on taking decisions, but well, that's too private to talk in front of 49 people ;D | 03:53 |
| trulux | I must have some work done right now, but I'll be around | 03:54 |
| trulux | ivoks: nice to talk to you ;) | 03:54 |
| ivoks | to you to... | 03:54 |
| ivoks | i'm bootstraping so can't devote all my atetntion to you :) | 03:55 |
| === trulux needs to write a manifesto, so, he won't need to do more than pointing people at an URL when a political,ethical or alike discussion comes up | ||
| trulux | ivoks: I need to do that too, I'm still on the laptop, I hope to buy a new TFT screen this afternoon | 03:55 |
| ivoks | hm.. | 03:57 |
| ivoks | this doesn't look good :( | 03:58 |
| trulux | ivoks: anything wrong? | 03:59 |
| trulux | lemme check if it works here | 03:59 |
| ivoks | i guess you have to have root for this | 04:00 |
| trulux | ivoks: for deboostrap'ing? | 04:02 |
| ivoks | yes | 04:02 |
| trulux | ivoks: BTW, won't write a manifesto, those who write them end by commiting suicide ;P | 04:02 |
| ivoks | :) | 04:02 |
| trulux | ivoks: I think yes, but it will depend on the target location too | 04:02 |
| ivoks | nope.. | 04:03 |
| ivoks | it tries to mount something | 04:03 |
| ivoks | only root can do that | 04:03 |
| ivoks | sudo doesn't work | 04:03 |
| ivoks | maybe i did something wrong :) | 04:03 |
| ivoks | heh... i started with fakeroot... idiot :) | 04:04 |
| trulux | haha | 04:04 |
| trulux | common mistake | 04:04 |
| ivoks | time for reboot | 04:05 |
| ivoks | i'll be back :) | 04:05 |
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| ivoks | this is second time my pan lost all it's settings | 04:14 |
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| Nafallo | yay! | 04:44 |
| Nafallo | I got specs for my computers online :-) | 04:44 |
| ivoks | :) | 04:46 |
| ivoks | ubuntulinux.org down? | 04:47 |
| Lathiat | seems so | 04:47 |
| ivoks | here it is | 04:47 |
| ivoks | or not :) | 04:48 |
| ivoks | ok | 04:57 |
| ivoks | i fixed libzipio++0 | 04:57 |
| ivoks | could someone review it? | 04:57 |
| Lathiat | get in the queue :) | 04:58 |
| ivoks | it is :) | 04:58 |
| ivoks | but it had error | 04:58 |
| ivoks | tritium and check it? :) | 05:00 |
| === mtbeedee [~mbeattie@ool-4355f1f7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ivoks | ok, time to go... | 05:31 |
| ivoks | see u later aligatros | 05:31 |
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| herve | ping | 05:50 |
| siretart | pong | 05:51 |
| siretart | :) | 05:51 |
| === ersin [~ersin@pcp0010684989pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| ersin | hey everyone...i have an hplip question | 05:53 |
| ersin | is there an ubuntu deb package of the latest hplip? | 05:53 |
| herve | ersin, http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=hplip | 05:59 |
| ersin | awesome! i'll try it out...thanks | 05:59 |
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| GheRivero | res | 06:33 |
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| doko | ivoks: ping | 06:42 |
| === herve [~hcauwelie@ip-3.net-81-220-179.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | re | 07:00 |
| === koke transitioning the world :P | ||
| koke | http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/transition-patches.log | 07:20 |
| herve | you got slashdotted or what? :-) | 07:23 |
| koke | herve: ? | 07:26 |
| herve | timeout | 07:26 |
| koke | humm | 07:26 |
| koke | maybe this cheap dsl router... | 07:27 |
| koke | ouch, it was redirecting incoming connections to my (sleeping) laptop | 07:27 |
| koke | :P | 07:27 |
| koke | try now | 07:27 |
| herve | good | 07:28 |
| === ivoks [~ivoks@lns01-0829.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | ivoks, and your studying, hu? :-p | 07:28 |
| ivoks | ah... | 07:29 |
| koke | tomorrow, I'll upload the result to some university server with more bandwidth :) | 07:29 |
| ivoks | i have sunday :) | 07:29 |
| herve | koke, you mean you automatically fetch BTS patches and apply them to ubuntu source packages? | 07:29 |
| ivoks | herve i fixed libzipio | 07:29 |
| herve | ivoks, you remind me when I was a student ;-) | 07:29 |
| ivoks | :) | 07:29 |
| herve | ivoks, you have until tuesday | 07:30 |
| ivoks | ok | 07:30 |
| koke | herve: yep :) | 07:30 |
| koke | then I'll review by hand | 07:30 |
| herve | by the time I'll also set up a pbuild with doko's repository | 07:30 |
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| herve | koke president! | 07:30 |
| Nafallo | hi all! | 07:31 |
| koke | this "|| P || affix || 285067 || Yes ||" is Patch in bts #285067 is applied correctly | 07:31 |
| herve | or maybe just a debootstrap | 07:31 |
| ivoks | pbuild? | 07:31 |
| koke | and this "|| B || affix || Yes ||" is that debuild -S ... worked | 07:31 |
| herve | you don't know about pbuild? :)- | 07:31 |
| ivoks | nope | 07:31 |
| ivoks | pbuilder | 07:31 |
| herve | koke, sources anywhere, | 07:31 |
| herve | ? | 07:31 |
| herve | pbuilder, yes | 07:32 |
| herve | pbuild is the verb | 07:32 |
| koke | http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/result/ | 07:32 |
| herve | koke, I mean your script :-) | 07:32 |
| koke | ok :D | 07:32 |
| koke | huh, let me see | 07:33 |
| doko | herve: that looks cool | 07:33 |
| koke | the part to fetch the patches is in python | 07:33 |
| ivoks | herve i never created debian package untill last week | 07:34 |
| herve | doko, wrong people! | 07:34 |
| koke | arch repo at: http://www.amedias.org/~koke/arch/ | 07:34 |
| ivoks | herve so i have to learn a lot | 07:34 |
| herve | koke, an arch user! yoohoo! | 07:34 |
| koke | koke@amedias.org--2005/universe-transition--koke--0.1 | 07:34 |
| herve | ivoks, as I do, you're not far behind my skills | 07:34 |
| koke | and the rest is a shell script and some dput magic :D | 07:34 |
| doko | herve: sorry, you'r not cool, koko is ;-) | 07:35 |
| ivoks | and I've been using debian since '98. :( | 07:35 |
| ivoks | shame on me :( | 07:35 |
| herve | s/koko/koke :-) | 07:35 |
| doko | ivoks: please could you file your bug report for zipios++ in bugzilla? | 07:35 |
| herve | which answers one of my question about life, universe and the rest | 07:35 |
| ivoks | doko sure | 07:35 |
| herve | does doko ever sleeps... not much it seems :-) | 07:36 |
| herve | ivoks, since 2000 | 07:36 |
| ivoks | herve i know :) | 07:36 |
| herve | ivoks, right I forgot, you should probably close the one in malone, as invalid probably | 07:36 |
| ivoks | ok | 07:37 |
| herve | doko, easy shot... what do you think about running zope2.7 packages with python2.4 in ubuntu? | 07:38 |
| koke | herve: FYI, once you get the sources from the repos, run ./update-pages.sh | 07:38 |
| koke | to fetch UniverseCxxTransition from the wiki | 07:38 |
| herve | koke, just wondered about how you did it | 07:38 |
| koke | then a ./test.py would fetch and extract the patches | 07:38 |
| koke | download too http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/try-to-patch.sh.txt | 07:39 |
| koke | and look at http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/dput.txt | 07:39 |
| koke | after that, the last bit of magic | 07:39 |
| koke | for i in `cat patches-list`;do ./try-to-patch.sh $i | tee -a transition-patches.log;done | 07:39 |
| koke | now, I have to gon | 07:39 |
| koke | go | 07:39 |
| koke | I guess tomorrow I'll blog this :) | 07:39 |
| herve | and point it to the fearless motus | 07:40 |
| koke | I wanted to code all in python, but I'm a pynewbie, and wanted to have it done today | 07:40 |
| koke | that's the cause of the language mixture | 07:40 |
| herve | that reminds when I write scripts for tla | 07:41 |
| koke | and mostly because it's a one-time run | 07:41 |
| herve | some are bash, others are python | 07:41 |
| koke | once the packages are done, the scripts are useless :) | 07:41 |
| herve | I don't blame you :-) | 07:41 |
| doko | koke: do you auto-build the resulting packages by script as well? | 07:42 |
| koke | doko: no, only debuild -S | 07:42 |
| ivoks | hm... | 07:43 |
| koke | I was planning to build them in another computer | 07:43 |
| koke | one that is idle 98% of the time :) | 07:43 |
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| Nafallo | hmm, I have to pull the patches manually? ;-) | 07:45 |
| koke | I have to go now | 07:46 |
| ivoks | great... build fails :( | 07:47 |
| === Nafallo goes to make some food | ||
| herve | Nafallo, good idea | 07:49 |
| herve | ivoks, with g++4.0? you tried pbuilder? | 07:49 |
| ivoks | strange failure | 07:50 |
| ivoks | no warnings and errors | 07:50 |
| ivoks | just a sec.. | 07:50 |
| herve | looks like the upgrade of new hal/dbus is close to be safe | 07:53 |
| ivoks | ok... it's ok | 07:53 |
| ivoks | but someone should check this... | 07:54 |
| herve | can I see the log? | 07:57 |
| ivoks | sec | 07:58 |
| ivoks | https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10782 | 07:59 |
| ivoks | http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs | 07:59 |
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| ivoks | it's ok | 08:01 |
| trulux | tritium: ping | 08:01 |
| herve | I hope so, I can't find the log :-) | 08:01 |
| ivoks | changelog? | 08:02 |
| herve | no, the build log | 08:02 |
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| ivoks_ | huh | 08:06 |
| ivoks | uh | 08:08 |
| ivoks | ubuntulinux.org down again? | 08:08 |
| ivoks | doko there, fixed | 08:09 |
| herve | see you later | 08:11 |
| ivoks | bye | 08:11 |
| ivoks | herve | 08:13 |
| ivoks | herve is it ok if I take care of libvtk4? | 08:13 |
| doko | ivoks: where's the diff? | 08:14 |
| ivoks | doko of package? | 08:15 |
| ivoks | or source? | 08:15 |
| doko | libzipios | 08:15 |
| ivoks | https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10782 | 08:16 |
| doko | there is no diff. | 08:17 |
| ivoks | debdiff | 08:18 |
| doko | please do debdiff <old version>.dsc <new version>.dsc > zipios++.diff | 08:18 |
| ivoks | ok | 08:18 |
| doko | ant attach the file to the report, do not paste it in | 08:18 |
| ivoks | ok, i understand | 08:19 |
| ivoks | sorry | 08:19 |
| ivoks | tsume lies? | 08:20 |
| ivoks | doko ok now? | 08:23 |
| doko | no, you have to compare the .dsc files, not the .deb's | 08:26 |
| ivoks | omg... | 08:27 |
| ivoks | sorry | 08:27 |
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| herve | cheer up, ivoks! | 08:37 |
| herve | I'm just passing by :-) | 08:37 |
| ivoks | eh... | 08:37 |
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| ivoks | herve vtk4-4.4.2 doesn't look good | 09:14 |
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| === goofrider is back (gone 26:15:00) | ||
| === Nafallo loves gthumb | ||
| Nafallo | the damn thing actually has a webgallery-generator :-P. | 09:42 |
| ivoks | yes :) | 09:47 |
| ivoks | it does | 09:47 |
| doko | ivoks: Package: libzipios++-dev | 09:53 |
| doko | Section: libdevel | 09:53 |
| doko | Architecture: any | 09:53 |
| doko | Depends: libzipios++0c102 (= ${Source-Version}) | 09:53 |
| doko | this package is uninstallable ... | 09:53 |
| ivoks | ok... but libzipios++0c2 provides that one | 09:53 |
| doko | no | 09:53 |
| ivoks | no? | 09:54 |
| ivoks | Replaces: libzipios++0c102 | 09:55 |
| ivoks | i was going to fix that -dev | 09:55 |
| ivoks | but wasn't sure should i leave it or change it... | 09:55 |
| doko | and it's libzipios++0.dirs, not libzipios++0.dir | 09:55 |
| ivoks | isn't it? | 09:56 |
| ivoks | then it was wrong before i took it | 09:56 |
| ivoks | ok, np | 09:56 |
| ivoks | i'll fix all that | 09:56 |
| doko | already done | 09:56 |
| ivoks | heh :( | 09:57 |
| herve | Nafallo, yeah I found the gallery generator handy | 09:57 |
| herve | ivoks, you can't compile vtk 4.4? | 09:57 |
| ivoks | no | 09:57 |
| === Unfrgiven [~ankur@202.76.176.94] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| herve | so it ain't any better | 09:58 |
| ivoks | i give up | 10:00 |
| herve | I said that when trying to solve vtk 4.2 :-) | 10:00 |
| ivoks | no, i give up on packaing for cxx | 10:01 |
| ivoks | i have so many to learn yet... | 10:01 |
| ivoks | avery package i crate is crapy | 10:01 |
| herve | you didn't think you became the living god of packaging in a week? :-) | 10:03 |
| doko | ivoks, no don't give up, that was the first one, the second one gets better :-) | 10:03 |
| herve | you just forgot a few characters | 10:03 |
| ivoks | lol | 10:03 |
| ivoks | i didn't say i'll do it all good in a week | 10:04 |
| ivoks | but i can't do cxx transition with so many errors | 10:04 |
| ivoks | i'll do packaging for my self and suggest for new packages | 10:04 |
| herve | people before you learnt the job from previous transitions | 10:04 |
| herve | s/learnt/arrive | 10:05 |
| herve | argh! | 10:05 |
| ivoks | heh | 10:05 |
| herve | sorry I'm tired :-) | 10:05 |
| ivoks | me too | 10:05 |
| ivoks | :) | 10:05 |
| ivoks | well, enough for today... | 10:06 |
| ivoks | maybe tomorrow will be better day :) | 10:06 |
| ivoks | bye | 10:06 |
| herve | no | 10:06 |
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