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[12:35] <mxpxpod> is it alright to use linux-source-2.6.12 from breezy in hoary?
[12:35] <tseng> works for me
[12:36] <tseng> just doesnt have -restited-modules yet
[12:36] <tseng> restricted
[12:36] <KaiL> mxpxpod: you only need to update one other package
[12:38] <srbaker> anyoen here experiencing difficulties with gnomebaker?
[12:38] <srbaker> it won't seem to burn for me, but nautilus burns just fine (or appears to)
[12:39] <Burgundavia> srbaker, more a question for #ubuntu
[12:40] <mxpxpod> tseng: well, I don't use anything out of -restricted
[12:40] <tseng> mxpxpod: its worth a try
[12:41] <mxpxpod> tseng: are you using the binary?
[12:41] <tseng> yes
[12:41] <zul> mxpxpod: i havent had any problems with 2.6.12 yet
[12:41] <mxpxpod> tseng: also, what version of .12 is it? -rc4?
[12:41] <tseng> i guess
[12:41] <zul> rc4
[12:41] <mxpxpod> zul: awesome
=== mxpxpod wants benh's new patches :)
[12:41] <zul> mxpxpod: im using x86 though
[12:42] <mxpxpod> zul: ok, so how do I know if the powerpc binaries have been updated to -rc4?
[12:42] <zul> mxpxpod: its built from the same source
[12:42] <zul> i dont have a ppc so i dont know how well it works
[12:43] <mxpxpod> zul: right, but generally ppc gets built after i386
[12:43] <mxpxpod> zul: what exact version is your linux-image-2.6.12?
[12:43] <zul> mxpxpod: try it and see..:)
[12:43] <zul> latest one
[12:43] <mxpxpod> :P that's helpful
[12:44] <zul> 1.1
[12:44] <mxpxpod> 2.6.11.92-1.1?
[12:44] <zul> yep
[12:44] <mxpxpod> cool
[12:46] <mxpxpod> ouch... to install linux-headers-2.6.12, I have to have the new libc6
[12:47] <tseng> you didnt dist-upgrade?
[12:47] <mxpxpod> tseng: no, I'm still using hoary
[12:47] <tseng> i think i missed that part.
[12:48] <mxpxpod> topic in #ubuntu says to not use breezy ;)
[12:48] <tseng> good call
[12:48] <mxpxpod> KaiL: so, you're using hoary with a breezy kernel?
[12:49] <KaiL> well, I have it installed on my K6-2, but as I need the nvidia driver there for now, I haven't tried it that much there
[12:50] <KaiL> also installedon this K7, but not used yet and on my K8 (with runs breezy)
[12:50] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[12:50] <dholbach> mxpxpod: stop, better wait
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[12:50] <dholbach> we're doing the c++ transition
[12:50] <mxpxpod> dholbach: huh?
[12:50] <dholbach> and it will break all your fancy stuff
[12:51] <mxpxpod> dholbach: oh, I'm not doing a full breezy upgrade
[12:51] <dholbach> -> g++-4.0
[12:51] <wasabi> it's really frustering trying to help peopl in #ubuntu
[12:51] <mxpxpod> I just want 2.6.12
[12:51] <KaiL> dholbach: that's why he shouldn't update to breezy but only try the kernel ;)
[12:52] <mxpxpod> tseng: you've got an ibook, right?
[12:52] <tseng> dell
[12:52] <mxpxpod> oh, right
[12:53] <mxpxpod> for some reason, when my ibook comes back from sleep, usb hotplugging doesn't work
[12:53] <mxpxpod> so I have to restart hotplug
[12:53] <dholbach> mxpxpod: prod pitti :-)
[12:53] <mxpxpod> dholbach: I'm not sure whether its a userspace issue or a kernel issue
[12:53] <dholbach> i think i'm going to bed now
[12:53] <dholbach> sleep tigh guys
[12:53] <mxpxpod> night dholbach 
[12:54] <dholbach> mxpxpod: he has the same problem, maybe he will care enough to fix it :-)
[12:54] <mkde> night dholbach 
[12:54] <KaiL> mxpxpod: with 2.6.10 or 2.6.12? ;)
[12:54] <dholbach> bye mxpxpod, mdke 
[12:54] <mxpxpod> KaiL: huh?
[12:54] <KaiL> ah, ok
=== KaiL should read first, ask then
[12:55] <mxpxpod> KaiL: the hotplug problem happens with 2.6.10
[12:56] <mxpxpod> ok, brb... gonna boot into 2.6.12
[12:57] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I feel your pain.
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[01:19] <mxpxpod> sooo, that didn't work so hot
[01:19] <mxpxpod> pbbuttonsd didn't like the new binary kernel
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[01:32] <Loevborg> is it a known problem that hoary's gcc crashes while compiling mplayer?
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[02:21] <bluefoxicy> clamav 0.85 is out and has significant improvements over 0.83
[02:21] <tseng> thats great do you have an updated source package?
[02:31] <bluefoxicy> all I can find is tar.gz
[02:32] <tseng> well, yes.. i meant did you make a package
[02:32] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  maybe if I had any clue how to actually make a source package.
[02:32] <tseng> well thats the point of this channel
[02:33] <tseng> people making source packages.
[02:34] <bluefoxicy> show me later.  I can probably adapt the clamav-0.83 one if someone shows me htf to do it.  :/
[02:35] <bluefoxicy> for now I want to find out how to write a plug-in for nautilus
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[02:44] <pixelmonkey> wow, I just tried out gtkwifi... finally a simple and nicely done wireless network selecting applet.
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[02:53] <KaiL> some known IDE issues with 2.6.12 and VIA KT133?
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[03:10] <jsgotangco> hello
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[03:11] <ajmitch_> hi jsgotangco 
[03:11] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, hey how was your weekend
[03:11] <ajmitch_> pretty good, how about you?
[03:11] <tseng> hi ajmitch_.
[03:12] <ajmitch_> hello tseng 
[03:12] <jsgotangco> not bad, was hot though, we went to a nearby pool
[03:19] <jdub> I LOVE BEING A TURTLE!
[03:22] <lifeless> ok
[03:22] <lifeless> you need more dried rabbit
[03:22] <tseng> jdub: turtles have no pants.
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=== lu|away turns jdub upside down
[03:48] <tseng> elmo: if you could clear NEW before cxx freezes it that would be rad.
[03:48] <tseng> g'night all
[03:51] <jsgotangco> night tseng 
[03:53] <jbailey> dilinger: Around?
[03:54] <jbailey> dilinger: Wondering what you think of  supporting a hack in cdbs where if DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="ccache", that it changes CC="$(which ccache) ${CC}"
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[04:10] <daniels> awesome
[04:10] <daniels> Gnome - Window switching shortcut is "@" in CF (french-Canadian) keyboard.
[04:10] <daniels> Impossible to write any mail in Ubuntu 5.4 with "CF" keyboard. "@" is
[04:10] <daniels> combination of "alt-car" (the "alt" on the right) and "2" on the CF keyboard
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[05:33] <Unfrgiven> elmo: ping?
[05:36] <daniels> Unfrgiven: it's 0436 in the UK
[05:39] <Unfrgiven> daniels: so you're saying he might be asleep? ;)
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> oh god this is painful.
[05:45] <AndyFitz> daniels,  have you got any artists to recommend listening to
[05:46] <daniels> AndyFitz: plenty
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[05:49] <daniels> AndyFitz: right now I'm listening to a DJ Craze set; other good ones include TZU, Squarepusher, Fabio, High Contrast, Boards of Canada, Pendulum, UNKLE, et al
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[05:56] <jsgotangco> heh nice selection
=== jsgotangco likes listening to classic chillout music when working
[06:03] <AndyFitz> daniels,  great list cheers mate. 
[06:05] <AndyFitz> jsgotangco,  loved the chillout music while working . then I realised I wasn't getting any work done :-)  .   now I listen to a genre that is in my opinion crappy music  but is awesome for the graphics work.   psytrance.   its horribly productive but I get sick of it quick
[06:07] <mpt> AndyFitz!
[06:07] <AndyFitz> mpt!
[06:07] <mpt> how's work?
[06:08] <AndyFitz> its pretty rad,  check out my IP ;-)
[06:08] <mpt> Eh.
[06:08] <blahrus> AndyFitz: redhat?
[06:08] <AndyFitz> blahrus,  contractor
[06:08] <blahrus> ahhh
[06:09] <blahrus> thats cool though
[06:09] <mpt> AndyFitz: Are you doing stock toolbar icons, or just file/folder/program icons?
[06:10] <AndyFitz> mpt,  Im still in the search of an army of graphics ninjas to help out set up and work on the project.   yes I intend to do stock icons. I've already done some
[06:10] <mpt> cool
=== AndyFitz needs time and help :-S
[06:11] <mpt> Coz every time I use Epiphany, I'm bothered by the Home icon, it looks like the house is falling down.
[06:15] <AndyFitz> mpt,  yeah back,forward home stop are bit on the list.      
[06:15] <AndyFitz> I've got a little list of pixmaps I need to track and replace also.  ( like the firefox one  that is displayed in metacity )
[06:16] <mpt> the Waterworld icon
[06:16] <mpt> AndyFitz: Should there be an icon style guide on the wiki?
[06:17] <AndyFitz> mpt, there should be an icon development website, repository and roadmap
[06:18] <AndyFitz> styleguide,  asset repository
[06:18] <AndyFitz> everything
[06:18] <mpt> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/search?SearchableText=icon is weird
[06:20] <mpt> AndyFitz: Well if I knew who to pester about that, I would :-)
[06:20] <AndyFitz> its more about doing than about pestering 
[06:21] <AndyFitz> I can pester cause I havent got the skills to set it all up
[06:21] <AndyFitz> hehe
[06:21] <AndyFitz> if you have the skills theres no excuse 
[06:21] <mpt> nope
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[06:28] <count0nz> any TV Dev's in here ?
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[06:36] <bluefoxicy> damnit is this right
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> cap_p = cap_from_text("CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE,CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH=pe =i");
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> permitted and effective dac override and read-search; inheritable none
[06:40] <count0nz> your heating on?
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[06:40] <count0nz> opps
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[06:58] <AndyFitz> Bam, retrotastic
[07:05] <count0nz> Hay is there a link to where i can see what packages are being worked on anyone doing xawdecode , xdtv ?
[07:10] <daniels> fabbione: ping
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[07:44] <daniels> fuck
[07:44] <daniels> lamont: ping
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[07:58] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/messin.png
[07:58] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/messin.svg
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[08:01] <Burgundavia> AndyFitz, nice
=== Burgundavia is waiting for inline svg in the fox
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[09:08] <zyga> good morning everyone
[09:11] <AndyFitz> morning zyga
[09:12] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/messin.png  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/messin.svg   
[09:12] <AndyFitz> bling
[09:13] <jsgotangco> whoa
[09:13] <jsgotangco> major bling
[09:13] <whiprush> Fridge!
[09:13] <jsgotangco> whiprush, hey
[09:13] <whiprush> that's hot bling man
[09:13] <whiprush> hey
[09:13] <AndyFitz> pimptastic
[09:14] <jsgotangco> make sure its yellow bling heh
[09:14] <jsgotangco> and lots of red
[09:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:14] <whiprush> very 50's art deco
[09:14] <AndyFitz> yeah I'll chrome, shade and radify it ... ;)  if its approved 
[09:14] <Lathiat> hahaha
[09:14] <Lathiat> thats mad
[09:14] <Lathiat> except some people will kill you ;p
[09:15] <AndyFitz> b&w is the best proof of concept tho ..  ant it works on faxes, t-shirts and other paraphernalia 
[09:15] <AndyFitz> ant=and
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[09:15] <AndyFitz> jdub: ping
[09:16] <AndyFitz> Lathiat,  what do you mean mate ?
[09:16] <whiprush> I like the one just bottom right of the ubuntu logo one
[09:17] <Lathiat> all i have to say is
[09:17] <Lathiat> THE! FRIDGE!
[09:18] <AndyFitz> the typeface evolved from bitstream vera sans bold oblique .. musclecar-ed it up :)
[09:20] <Burgundavia> AndyFitz, I like the big typeface in the bottom with the old style fridge
[09:20] <AndyFitz> Burgundavia,  the potato style ?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:20] <whiprush> the pill looking one is cool
[09:26] <JaneW> does anyone else have UDU photos which they'd like to share?
[09:26] <AndyFitz> the capsule is used with the ubuntu logo . its the only way I could make a connection without actually putting the logo
[09:26] <AndyFitz> JaneW,  I have a few but not accessible from here.
[09:27] <whiprush> I just linked my photo's to the one wiki page.
[09:27] <whiprush> anyone have a link to that big group picture we took at the end?
[09:27] <JaneW> whiprush: yes thanks I picked those up, I put a link to them from the warthogs page too, that ok?
[09:27] <whiprush> sure.
[09:27] <whiprush> warthog's page?
[09:28] <JaneW> whip yes tha's on er... Jblacks page, go look at the links, pic #1
[09:28] <whiprush> k
[09:28] <JaneW> whprush: I loved your blog footage btw, esp the uduflu!
[09:29] <whiprush> heh
[09:29] <jsgotangco> hey JaneW how is your weekend
[09:29] <whiprush> wow that picture turned out great.
=== whiprush saves
=== JaneW *LOL* at mako in that one
[09:30] <JaneW> mjg59: you here?
[09:32] <whiprush> is that mako under the poster?
[09:32] <whiprush> heh
[09:32] <JaneW> whiprush: yeah :)
[09:35] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:35] <jsgotangco> hehe
[09:35] <jsgotangco> there was also a photo with mdz trying the headspin
[09:36] <JaneW> I got that one, not a get pic though a bit dark. It's pic #1 on my page
[09:38] <jsgotangco> JaneW, on the BreezyGoals page, we're the ones supposed to change the status of our projects?
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[09:38] <jsgotangco> oh wait i just read the page
[09:39] <jsgotangco> theres an explanation now
[09:39] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes, or mail/msg me and I can do it for you. I am sending out a nag mail right now :) Trying to avoid it?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I have a tester for PDA stuff
[09:41] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do we want to put out a general call on -users?
[09:41] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i have some wiki pages i ripped from mjg59's wiki
[09:42] <jsgotangco> similar to that
[09:42] <jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PDATesting
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[09:44] <zyga> AndyFitz: nice fridge :-)
[09:47] <AndyFitz> cheers zyga
[09:47] <zyga> AndyFitz: any specific reason to make a fridge?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, still a little confused
[09:47] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, needs to be fleshed out more
[09:47] <AndyFitz> zyga,  talk to jdub ;)  http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TheFridge
[09:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ok
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[09:48] <zyga> AndyFitz: interesting
[09:48] <whiprush> thefridge will rule.
[09:48] <jsgotangco> if you build it :)
[09:49] <whiprush> who says it isn't yet? :p
[09:49] <whiprush> (mysterious music)
[09:49] <zyga> firefox should have some bookmarks so that new users will find such sites easiyly
[09:50] <zyga> easily
[09:50] <jsgotangco> including (the fridge)
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[09:58] <AndyFitz> whiprush ,  I'm creeped out already  :)
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[10:14] <JaneW> anyone know how to get hold of tseng>
[10:14] <JaneW> ?
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[10:19] <AndyFitz> JaneW,  he isnt on Aim, jabber etc 
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[10:28] <JaneW> AndyFitz: his whois says ~tseng@mail.thegrebs.com, but that bounces back
[10:28] <JaneW> as does tseng@mail.thegrebs.com
[10:30] <Nafallo> JaneW: trying to send e-mail? :-)
[10:30] <Burgundavia> JaneW, you can ping him here
[10:30] <Nafallo> or use the mailaddy in his nickserv info :-)
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[10:33] <AndyFitz> janeW,  he's online on jabber
[10:33] <AndyFitz> just away
=== JaneW did ping tseng earlier - no response, and I don't see him on jabber...?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> i think he said good night a few hours ago
[10:35] <JaneW> ok. I need to nag him to update a Breezy Goal ;)
[10:35] <JaneW> I'll wait till he wakes up ;)
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[10:36] <ogra> JaneW, if its about mono i can probably help out...
[10:36] <ogra> morning everybody
[10:37] <Nafallo> morning ogra :-)
[10:37] <Burgundavia> salut ogra 
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[10:38] <Unfrgiven> elmo: ping?
[10:48] <JaneW> ogra: no it's about IntroDeveloperDocs
[10:48] <ogra> ah, ok
[10:48] <Burgundavia> JaneW, I might be able to answer that
[10:48] <JaneW> ogra: I am just chasing the people who need to finish updateing the Breezy Goals page. You included... ;)
[10:49] <Unfrgiven> tritium: ping?
[10:49] <JaneW> Burgundavia: cool wanna update the page?
[10:49] <Burgundavia> JaneW, what do you need answered?
[10:49] <ogra> JaneW, yep, saw your mail right after my sentence ;)
[10:49] <jsgotangco> the spec
[10:49] <ogra> JaneW, the list is missing WIP ?
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[10:51] <Nafallo> JaneW: you should add an explanation for WIP to :-).
[10:54] <Burgundavia> ogra, seen this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27740
[10:54] <ogra> Burgundavia, yep, i know the tool
[10:55] <azeem> what about fixing/improving the services component of the gnome-system-tools?
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[10:55] <ogra> azeem, to many options
[10:55] <ogra> azeem, (in the tool)
[10:55] <Burgundavia> ogra, ok, just checking
[10:55] <ogra> azeem, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalConfigTools
[10:56] <azeem> ogra: well, that's what I meant with 'fixing' I guess :P
[10:57] <ogra> Burgundavia, btw, bootup manager is far from being an appropriate name for the app ;)
[10:57] <Burgundavia> ogra, yes
[10:57] <Burgundavia> ogra, names can be changed easier than UIs and code
[10:58] <ogra> hehe, yes
[10:58] <jordi> moo
[10:58] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/CalendaringSynchronisation says hula in main
[10:58] <Burgundavia> is this true?
[10:58] <ogra> hey jordi :)
[10:58] <Burgundavia> jordi, bah
=== ogra lols
[10:58] <Kamion> morning
[10:58] <ogra> hula in MAIN....
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[10:59] <Treenaks> main? wtf?
[10:59] <jsgotangco> hmmm...really?
[11:00] <Burgundavia> would be nice, but is it really mature enough?
[11:01] <ogra> if you rewrite the backend before ...
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[11:02] <Burgundavia> there is serious work being done on both ends of the app
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[11:03] <GheRivero> res
[11:03] <JaneW> ogra: oh sorry. it's Work In Progress, but I'll update now
[11:03] <ogra> JaneW, i know what it is ;) its just missing as an option in your mail  :)
[11:04] <JaneW> Burgundavia: it needs a current status, and I resume it does NOT affect the kernel (since it's just a set of docs?)
[11:05] <Burgundavia> JaneW, no idea as to current status, but it does not affect the kernel (unless tseng is doing something really strange)
[11:05] <jsgotangco> JaneW, its still drafting i believe, most of the stuff in the wiki are whiprush's notes
[11:06] <JaneW> ok, should I set it to drafting then?
[11:06] <jsgotangco> yes will have to bug tseng and whiprush about this
[11:06] <Nafallo> Burgundavia: tseng's plan was to start writing this on the wiki IIRC? if so, and it isn't there it's probably pending :-P
[11:07] <JaneW> DONE
[11:07] <jsgotangco> a lot of stuff is already in the wiki regarding this issue
[11:07] <jsgotangco> it just needs cleaning up
[11:07] <Burgundavia> Nafallo, I assume so, I hadn't heard to the contrary
[11:08] <zyga> does anyone around have experience with RPC?
[11:08] <Nafallo> Burgundavia: yepp, the wiki part I recalled from the spec *reading* ;-).
[11:09] <jsgotangco> along with PackagingSystemDocumentation
[11:10] <Nafallo> jsgotangco: seems to me that's integrated in IntroDevelDocs.
[11:11] <jsgotangco> Nafallo, yes very
=== Nafallo wonders why the PackagingSystemDocumentation spec isn't terminated ;-)
[11:12] <jsgotangco> heh, it was explicitly indicated that it will be part of IntroDeveloperDocs
[11:13] <thom> hula in main? RUN AWAY
[11:13] <thom> good morning ;-)
[11:13] <jsgotangco> hi thom 
[11:13] <Nafallo> thom: morning :-). you should update BreezyGoals btw ;-)
[11:13] <Treenaks> thom: yes, and it's going to be the default mta!
[11:14] <Nafallo> Treenaks: lol'
[11:14] <jsgotangco> gyah
[11:14] <ogra> thom, i dont think they're serious
[11:14] <Burgundavia> but it is on the wiki, it must be true!
[11:14] <tseng> JaneW: pong. it was sleep time here
[11:15] <Nafallo> tseng: morning tseng :-)
[11:15] <tseng> hey dude.
[11:15] <Unfrgiven> tseng: morning
[11:15] <jsgotangco> there bug him :D
[11:17] <zyga> hello thom
[11:18] <tseng> JaneW: if you are looking for breezy goals status, we are working hard on Mono. intro developer docs will be next, I dont have time to do them in parallel but the doc wont take more than a week or two
[11:19] <Unfrgiven> tseng: want some help writing it?
[11:19] <tseng> sure I meant to do the first draft, but we filled out a pretty solid outline at udu
[11:20] <tseng> you probably have a pretty good idea where im going with it
[11:20] <Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah... if you want, i'll take what we did at udu and start fleshing it out.
[11:20] <Unfrgiven> i can send you frequent updates...
[11:20] <tseng> hm sure
[11:20] <tseng> can you work with jsgotangco?
[11:20] <jsgotangco> sure
[11:20] <Unfrgiven> yeah sure... 
[11:20] <tseng> rock on dudes!
[11:21] <JaneW> tseng: hi, np, I just needed to give it a status, I have made it drafting, ok?
[11:21] <tseng> JaneW: sure.
[11:21] <jsgotangco> we better flesh out the notes made by whiprush
[11:21] <Unfrgiven> tseng: and where will u come in? or are you handing it over to us?
[11:21] <JaneW> cool, you guys respond really well to nagging!
[11:21] <JaneW> this is gonna be fun! ;)
[11:21] <tseng> JaneW: mono is being implemented now, it sounds like these guys want to do first draft for the doc
[11:22] <tseng> JaneW: hey only when im awake!
[11:22] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: where can we get his notes?
[11:22] <JaneW> heh
[11:22] <JaneW> hey, let tseng wake up!
[11:22] <jsgotangco> Unfrgiven, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/IntroDeveloperDocs
[11:23] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: oh righht.... yeah ive seen those... i was there when he wrote it :)
[11:23] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: i thought you meant something other than the spec.
[11:23] <tseng> the notes are great.. i threw out all my ideas for the outline, people gave criticism, and whiprush wrote it all down
[11:23] <jsgotangco> waa
[11:23] <tseng> if something isnt clear ask obviously
[11:23] <Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah for sure...
[11:23] <whiprush> pretty sure that those are my notes
[11:24] <whiprush> I got a few things in my tomboy notes that aren't in there
[11:24] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude
[11:24] <tseng> The documentation should also explain the correct way to build packages for stuff that aren't compilable (php, python, documentation, artwork etc) - MikkoVirkkil (mvirkkil)
[11:24] <tseng> ^ hm?
[11:24] <tseng> python we should do sure
[11:24] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: oh. could you add those notes to the spec?
[11:24] <whiprush> yep
[11:25] <Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah the edubuntu guys seemed really keen for those
[11:25] <whiprush> I'll do so in about an hour
[11:25] <whiprush> heading off to work
[11:25] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: yep cool, no probs
[11:25] <tseng> Unfrgiven: yeah i got to work with them on it, they left with a reasonable understanding
[11:25] <jsgotangco> hmm what happened to edubuntu anyways
[11:25] <Unfrgiven> tseng: sveet.
[11:25] <tseng> yeah elkner hasnt mailed me yes
[11:25] <jsgotangco> i was very keen on that
[11:26] <tseng> yet*
[11:26] <tseng> he asked me to appear at a computing in education conf
[11:27] <tseng> the plan is to demo edubuntu stuff
[11:27] <Unfrgiven> tseng: when is it? has there been any work on edubuntu?
[11:27] <jsgotangco> there's a good spec
[11:27] <jsgotangco> though
[11:27] <tseng> Unfrgiven: well maybe a little, but they have a solid base already
[11:27] <jsgotangco> but it relies too much on ltsp work
[11:27] <tseng> ltsp has been around for years
[11:28] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:28] <tseng> they already ran it previous years at the booth
[11:28] <tseng> so im sure they can handle setting it up on ubuntu :)
[11:28] <Unfrgiven> is that all it was though? ubuntu + ltsp = edubuntu?
[11:28] <tseng> well, yes and no
[11:29] <tseng> it involves integrating it in and using casper instead of a full install
[11:29] <tseng> but im sure they could build something more manual in the mean time
[11:29] <tseng> netbooting casper will be awesome
[11:30] <Treenaks> what was the dbus-newmail-notifier again?
[11:30] <Treenaks> (the one that waits for evolution messages)
[11:36] <ogra> Treenaks, there is already a frontend ?
=== ogra was just about to port evonotify to use dbus...
[11:39] <Treenaks> ogra: I think so
[11:39] <torkel> Treenaks: check the evolution-patches mailing list
[11:42] <tseng> seb128: oh that reminds me, id be happy if you could give your input on http://tseng2.ath.cx/~brandon/gst-plugins/
[11:42] <tseng> seb128: i plan to make it build lame also
[11:42] <seb128> k
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[11:43] <tseng> thanks!
[11:43] <seb128> np
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[12:13] <thom> doko: did you upload a new firefox, or shall i do that shortly?
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[12:14] <mdke> ooh
[12:14] <mdke> new one for hoary?
[12:14] <thom> no?
[12:14] <jsgotangco> thom, hey are you doing (or planning) to do a PDA spec? I can just fix the existing stuff and add more
[12:14] <thom> not till wednesday
[12:14] <thom> jsgotangco: go for it
[12:14] <jsgotangco> ok
[12:15] <seb128> elmo: libgtk2-perl sync from experimental
[12:15] <mdke> thom, k sorry
[12:15] <jsgotangco> mdke, you mean firefox 1.04?
[12:15] <mdke> jsgotangco, i was thinking that possibly there was a security coming
[12:15] <mdke> security update*
[12:15] <ogra_d> jsgotangco, did you have a look at familiar linux for the PDA spec ?
[12:15] <doko> thom: no, I didn't need it. firefox-dev already has the new C++ ABI
[12:16] <thom> doko: um, you're aware that firefox didn't actually build, right?
[12:16] <ogra_d> jsgotangco, they are debian based....
[12:16] <seb128> elmo: libidl sync too please
[12:16] <thom> doko: i really need to upload 1.0.4 to breezy, is that going to cause huge grief?
[12:17] <doko> no, not at all. using which compiler?
[12:17] <thom> 4
[12:17] <doko> fine
[12:17] <thom> righto
[12:20] <mjg59> Kamion: Arse, I forgot to deal with IR setup
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[12:21] <Kamion> mjg59: in the HP CD?
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[12:24] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah
[12:24] <mjg59> Kamion: Needs setserial adding to desktop and for me to update the hp6xx0 package
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[12:32] <mjg59> Kamion: If I feed you an updated package later on, is it easy enough to regenerate the CD?
[12:35] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah
[12:36] <Kamion> mjg59: I've moved setserial into desktop in that seed branch
[12:36] <mjg59> Kamion: Cool. I'll send the package soon.
[12:36] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:36] <Kamion> er ... well I would've done if chinstrap were reachable
[12:37] <Kamion> ok, what's going on? it's reachable from my server but not from my laptop. grr.
[12:38] <Kamion> ah, fixed
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[12:56] <seb128> daniels: around?
[12:59] <Riddell> if I have a multi-processor machine how can I tell debuild to make use of that?
[12:59] <jordi> Kamion: now that it's early you might want to explore the possibility of importing nano/experimental to breezy
[01:00] <jordi> Kamion: I haven't seen any important bug report in debian bts or upstream mailing list
[01:00] <jordi> and it has  the UTF-8 support stuff
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[01:02] <Kamion> jordi: don't see why not
[01:03] <Kamion> elmo: please sync nano 1.3.7-0 from experimental
[01:03] <Kamion> Riddell: wrong level - debuild just invokes dpkg-buildpackage which invokes debian/rules. Getting debian/rules to use make -j depends on the package.
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[01:05] <jordi> Kamion: easy :)
[01:07] <carlos> jordi, hi old man :-)
[01:07] <jordi> carlos: dude
[01:07] <jordi> it's still 27
[01:07] <jordi> it will get worse
[01:10] <Burgundavia> is this statement correct? "Breezy is going to be completely compiled with GCC 4.0"
[01:13] <mdke> i got a report of a pm spammer in #ubuntu
[01:13] <mdke> "msg pvt: come and see my photos at ..." sort of thing
[01:13] <ogra_d> Burgundavia, with exception of the kernel, yes
[01:14] <mdke> any ops around?
[01:14] <Burgundavia> ogra, ok, thanks
[01:14] <Seveas> mdke, i've tried to msg all ops, no one answers...
[01:14] <mdke> ok
[01:14] <mdke> will try freenode staff
=== ogra_d is supposed to be an op, but i'm obviously not on the access list yet
[01:15] <Kamion> Burgundavia: various workarounds other than the kernel have been applied; I'd say something more like "with a few exceptions, ..."
[01:16] <Burgundavia> Kamion, ok
[01:23] <daniels> seb128: not really, no
[01:24] <mdke> daniels, if you get 10 seconds would you ban Lidia21 from #ubuntu, it is a spam bot
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[01:25] <mdke> daniels, oh forget it sorry
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[01:25] <daniels> already done
[01:25] <daniels> yeah, cheers
[01:25] <mdke> sorry to bother ta
[01:25] <mdke> ya
[01:29] <daniels> no worries
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[01:49] <seb128> daniels: that's just about your panel issue.. do you have a drawer near of a corner?
[01:50] <ogra_d> seb128, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8285 "...we just have to grab it" ??? HAHA
[01:50] <seb128> ogra_d: "just" :p
[01:50] <ogra_d> heh
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[02:06] <doko> seb128: could you have a look at 9982?
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[02:08] <seb128> doko: k
[02:13] <lamont> daniels: ack
[02:15] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[02:16] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[02:16] <ogra> hey fabbione 
=== lamont heads to the breakfast table
[02:16] <fabbione> hey ogra
[02:20] <thom> apt really is getting intelligent:
[02:20] <thom> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[02:20] <thom>   xchat xchat-common
=== thom applauds apt
[02:21] <lu|sleep> heh
=== lu|sleep hopes someone builds an xchat-gnome 0.4 package
[02:21] <seb128> thom: hum, what's screwed?
[02:21] <seb128> lu|sleep: is that usuable now?
[02:21] <lu|sleep> seb128: getting there
[02:22] <lu|sleep> I've actually been using 0.3 for a couple months
[02:22] <lu|sleep> and am now using svn builds
[02:22] <seb128> I should give it a try
[02:23] <thom> seb128: not sure; i don't see why the pango upgrade should cause xchat to be pulled
[02:24] <thom> seb128: ah; xchat is out of sync with xchat-common on amd64
[02:27] <seb128> oh, k
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[02:29] <mjg59> Kamion: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/hp/
[02:33] <Kamion> mjg59: ok, I'll put another build together with that
[02:34] <Kamion> mjg59: (the Pre-Depends on grep and sed seem a bit gratuitous, seeing as how both of those are Essential)
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[02:39] <doko> Kamion: I see the new directfb upstream version is prepared for gcc-4, but, it will change the name of an udeb. is there anything to consider besides a normal build?
[02:39] <Kamion> doko: that udeb isn't used by anything yet, so don't worry about it
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[02:40] <doko> Kamion: fine
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[02:49] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah - is essential stuff guaranteed to be usable by the time second stage stuff is installed?
[02:49] <Kamion> mjg59: absolutely!
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[02:49] <Kamion> it's guaranteed to be usable by the time debootstrap has done its "required" stage
[02:50] <mjg59> Ok, cool.
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[02:51] <Kamion> mjg59: rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/custom/20050516/hoary-install-i386.iso
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[03:34] <Kamion> popularity-contest is asking a question in a breezy install
[03:34] <Kamion> make it stop
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[03:37] <Amaranth> eek
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[03:38] <Kamion> thom: ^-- that was your merge
[03:43] <Kamion> and there's an fdutils question too
[03:43] <Kamion> (non-debconf)
[03:43] <thom> Kamion: righto
[03:43] <thom> thanks
[03:45] <Kamion> thom: ah, it probably wasn't the fault of the merge
[03:45] <Kamion> thom: we went from installing it within debootstrap (under the noninteractive frontend) to installing it in the second stage
[03:46] <thom> oh, ok
[03:46] <thom> hrm
[03:46] <thom> i guess i'll just drop the priority of the question
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[04:36] <GheRivero> res
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[04:50] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[04:50] <doko> elmo: ping?
[04:50] <fabbione> lamont: ?
[04:51] <fabbione> jbailey: ping?
[04:51] <doko> jbailey: ping?
[04:51] <jbailey> fabbione, doko: 'sup?
[04:52] <fabbione> jbailey: time to start working on the C++ transition?
[04:52] <jbailey> Sounds luvly.
[04:52] <doko> jbailey: the toolchain for hppa is fixed?
[04:52] <fabbione> yeah we need elmo, lamont and daniels too
[04:52] <fabbione> doko: afaik hppa is missing glibc
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[04:52] <jbailey> doko: No, I'm hacking on that in the background.  I was trying to figure out sparc stuff this morning, but it looks like the failures there may be actual package failures doing special things for sparc that they don't need to anymore.
[04:53] <Kamion> fabbione: can I have another hour or so?
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[04:53] <Kamion> I want one more try at producing working CDs
[04:53] <fabbione> Kamion: sure, don't worry. it will take more than that
[04:53] <fabbione> Kamion: we need elmo and lamont at the mixer to make the disco going :)
[04:54] <Kamion> thom: popcon> if it's just dropping the priority, I can do that
[04:54] <thom> Kamion: 'k; i have to pop out for a couple hours now anyway
[04:55] <Kamion> ok, doing, thanks
[04:55] <fabbione> thom: do you know if elmo is at the DC?
[04:55] <doko> fabbione: and daniels to flash the xlights :)
[04:55] <thom> fabbione: he's not
[04:55] <fabbione> doko: that too...
[04:55] <fabbione> thom: ok thanks mucho
[04:56] <Kamion> ok, popularity-contest uploaded; I should be able to produce CDs after the :33 cron.daily
[04:56] <Kamion> hmm, ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable on amd64?
[04:56] <fabbione> Kamion: take your time. this is not going to be a 2 minutes thing i am afraid
[04:57] <doko> fabbione: great, we found Kamion to be guilty that we cannot start the transition ;-)
[04:58] <Kamion> oh, bugger, and apt-setup is hosed
[04:58] <mjg59> Argh damned rsync
[04:58] <mjg59> Why doesn't it deal with running out of space non-destructively?
[04:58] <Kamion> oops
[04:58] <fabbione> doko: no shit.. i come back here on public holidays for the transition. the transition will start today or people will wake up tomorrow with a dead horse head in the bed
[04:58] <mjg59> (More to the point, why does it not notice that it's going to run out of space beforehand?)
=== mjg59 now has half a CD
[04:59] <Kamion> mjg59: come round here, rsync off my copy? :)
[05:00] <mjg59> I have to go and supervise now, so I might as well leave it downloading
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[05:07] <jbailey> doko: Is there a list for us to work from, or a wiki page with steps to follow?
[05:08] <doko> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
[05:08] <doko> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
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[05:14] <jordi> seb128: is this merge of gnoem-mud something that was asked by users, or rutinary work?
[05:14] <jordi> seb128: it's uploaded now
[05:14] <Kamion> merges are generally routine
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[05:16] <thom> lamont: please, please gzip build logs rather than bzip2ing them so they're viewable in a browser :-)
[05:16] <ogra> or use a cgi to bunzip them if clicked
[05:17] <fabbione> thom: fix your browser :)
[05:18] <fabbione> thom: remember... ssh + bzless are the rock :)
[05:18] <jbailey> lamont: You should send in a patch to drepper to at DCT
[05:18] <jordi> Kamion: I wonder how this typo in build-deps wasn't spotted before
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[05:18] <jbailey> Yeah, the .bz build logs are really annoying. =(
[05:18] <jbailey> lamont: s/at/add/
[05:19] <lamont> thom: gziped files don't show up clean in my browser either.
[05:19] <Kamion> jordi: no idea what's being talked about :)
[05:19] <thom> lamont: that's fixable
[05:19] <jbailey> lamont: Really?  they ought to - the http protocol has addons to support gzip compression, IIRC.
[05:20] <jordi> Kamion: there was a typo in gnome-muds b-d's, plus it was build-depending on python-gtk2.3-dev, instald of python-gtk-dev.
[05:20] <jordi> I guess this was bad for hoary already, but I got notified today
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[05:21] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/a52dec/0.7.4-1/a52dec_0.7.4-1_20040620-0954-i386-successful.gz
[05:22] <lamont> thom: tell me how to make that behave any differently than .bz2, and I'll switch it.
[05:22] <Kamion> ok, fixed apt-setup, I think
[05:22] <lamont> for extra credit, make bz2 behave the same way
[05:22] <lamont> thom: it wants to open it with Archive Manager
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> someone recommend me a C API for storing configuration data in config files
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> I can't figure out which manual to read
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[05:44] <Riddell> elmo: are you able to let knetworkconf into hoary-updates?
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[05:48] <mdke> rsmy god the wiki is slow right now
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[05:58] <Kamion> seb128: did you see that xchat failed to build?
[05:58] <Kamion> checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile
[05:59] <seb128> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xchat/2.4.3-0.1ubuntu1/
[05:59] <Kamion> indeed
[05:59] <seb128> Kamion: only on amd64, I blame the buildd
[05:59] <Kamion> ok, unfortunately it hoses the amd64 CD
[05:59] <seb128> jordi: I'll ask for a sync
[05:59] <Kamion> lamont?
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[06:00] <seb128> jordi: sync are automatic when there is no ubuntu changes ... and atm there is ubuntu changes due to the python version :)
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[06:09] <jordi> seb128: I see. Thanks :)
[06:09] <seb128> thank you
[06:09] <seb128> elmo: libgtk2-perl (experimental) gnome-mud (incoming) libidl speex gnome-blog contact-lookup-applet gnomoradio ding gaim-encryption revelation at-spi gnome-mag gok goobox gnome-doc-utils monotone pythoncad syncs please
[06:10] <jordi> you do syncs from inc too? wow
[06:10] <seb128> why not? that's just grabbing a source package
[06:10] <jordi> sure
[06:15] <lamont> Kamion: ack
[06:16] <lamont> Kamion: ah, xchat... hrm.
[06:17] <seb128> kick a new build
[06:17] <thom> lamont: also, what the hell is that most recent firefox amd64 build log about?
=== trulux needs a pitti
[06:17] <surak> xchat is nice, but... it seems a little redundant with gaim.
[06:18] <seb128> not at all
[06:18] <lamont> surak: no way.
[06:18] <mdke> *laughs*
[06:18] <lamont> gaim sucks for irc
[06:18] <surak> indeed
[06:18] <seb128> s/for irc//
[06:18] <thom> s/for.*//
[06:18] <mdke> i'd rather use firefox irc than gaim
=== seb128 will package xchat-gnome soon
[06:19] <mdke> seb128, yay!
[06:20] <surak> just thinking on terms of disk space.
[06:20] <surak> (for the live-cd)
[06:21] <lamont> thom: it's about yellow being really really really annoyed
[06:21] <thom> lamont: well, feed it sedatives, or give it lots of tea. or something
[06:21] <Kamion> surak: it's only about 300K, no big deal
[06:22] <Kamion> there are many better targets
[06:22] <Kamion> :)
[06:23] <Amaranth> if gaim sucks what else is there to use?
[06:23] <Amaranth> for AIM, MSN, YIM, etc
[06:23] <nohar> on ;)
[06:24] <thom> Amaranth: i said it sucks, not that you shouldn't use it
[06:24] <Amaranth> heh
[06:24] <mdke> gaim is good for that, but sucks for irc
[06:24] <luis_> s/good/decent/
[06:24] <seb128> does any say there is a non-sucky IM for MSN etc ?
[06:24] <surak> fedora people have been discussing for weeks about keeping lilo or not. Someone from redhat said about maintaing it... and they were reminded that lilo hasn't changed since 2002
[06:24] <mdke> luis_, nods*
[06:24] <seb128> gossip rules
[06:24] <luis_> yeah
[06:24] <Amaranth> too bad gossip is just jabber
=== luis_ keeps praying for AIM support for gossip to fall from the sky
[06:25] <seb128> they should use libgaim 
[06:25] <luis_> seb128: I think there was talk of that and then hallski decided to kill it
[06:25] <Amaranth> yeah, that'd be cool
=== Amaranth kills hallski
[06:26] <mdke> do you guys know if it is possible to sign GPG keys based on just a phone call?
[06:26] <seb128> transports way?
[06:26] <Kamion> surak: lilo's still needed for a number of things grub just doesn't support
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[06:26] <Kamion> surak: and lilo *has* changed since 2002 ...
[06:26] <Kamion> Changes from version 22.6 to 22.6.1 (17-Nov-2004) John Coffman
[06:26] <luis_> mdke: doesn't the protocol require checking ID?
[06:27] <surak> Kamion: I know, but they dropped it indeed. That's why the discussion. And redhat's lilo hasn't changed...
[06:27] <luis_> seb128: no, transports sort of suck
[06:27] <mdke> luis_, thats what i want to know. Do you have a link for the policy?
[06:27] <luis_> seb128: basically unuseful for anyone except the admin
[06:27] <luis_> mdke: I don't, I don't even have a key
[06:27] <Kamion> surak: ah. that's just RH being slack I think :)
[06:27] <luis_> brb
[06:27] <Kamion> there've been 16 upstream releases of lilo since 2002
[06:27] <luis_> need more tea
[06:27] <surak> Exactly :-)
[06:28] <Kamion> mdke: only if you know the person well enough already that you could be convinced about who they are from a phone call (i.e. you know their voice and can talk about things you're both familiar with)
[06:28] <mdke> Kamion, guess not then
[06:29] <Amaranth> heh, that'd make things easier :)
[06:29] <mdke> Kamion, so meeting in person is necessary basically
[06:29] <mdke> ?
[06:29] <Kamion> I've once signed a key based on a phone call, but it was somebody I already knew well and I was just re-signing a new key because he'd lost his old one
[06:29] <Kamion> mdke: generally, yes
[06:29] <mdke> Kamion, with some kind of ID?
[06:29] <Kamion> mdke: yes
[06:29] <mdke> right
[06:29] <Amaranth> i can call anywhere in the world but i can't go there so i'm screwed
[06:29] <mdke> hmm
[06:30] <Kamion> mdke: otherwise I could just wander up and claim to be you
[06:30] <mdke> Kamion, yeah i see
[06:31] <mdke> then again, if I turn up and say, I'm mdke, please sign my key, you still wouldn't know if its the same person that is chatting now
[06:31] <Amaranth> Hi, my name is Colin Watson and I need you to sign my key. ;)
[06:31] <Amaranth> mdke: That's why you need a photo ID.
[06:31] <mdke> gosh
[06:32] <mdke> it gets even more complicated
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[06:32] <Amaranth> Although if you accept any kind of photo ID I could just make up something and make an ID for it with my picture and someone else's name.
[06:32] <mdke> :/
[06:32] <Amaranth> So basically you need something government issued and hard to fake.
[06:35] <Kamion> mdke: if you're sensible you also check that the e-mail address on the key matches up
[06:35] <Kamion> mdke: i.e. that the person behind that e-mail address owns the private half of the key you're signing
[06:35] <mdke> Kamion, yeah
[06:36] <Kamion> it's pretty easy to come up with several obvious schemes for doing that; there are a couple of more or less standard ones
[06:36] <mdke> by emailing and saying, "how many times did i scratch my nose when we met in person just now?"
[06:36] <Kamion> that, or by mailing the signed key to them encrypted under their key
=== mdke nods
[06:37] <Kamion> (and not uploading it to the keyservers) so that they can only get hold of the signature if they own the key
[06:37] <mdke> yes i c
[06:40] <thom> lamont: also, a completely clean breezy chroot just built firefox fine, but none of the buildds seem able to
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[06:47] <lamont> thom: ../../../../dist/private/nss/oiddata.h:46: error: array type has incomplete element type
[06:47] <lamont> make[5] : *** [Linux2.6_ppc_glibc_PTH_OPT.OBJ/asymmkey.o]  Error 1
[06:47] <lamont> could that be part of the issue?
[06:47] <lamont> certdb.c: In function 'cert_GetCertType':
[06:47] <lamont> certdb.c:662: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of 'PR_AtomicSet' differ in signedness
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[06:48] <thom> lamont: probably, but i can't duplicate it
[06:48] <thom> hrm, i wonder
[06:49] <lamont> similar error on i386
[06:50] <thom> yes
[06:54] <seb128> Kamion, lamont: xchat/amd64 ok this time
[06:54] <lamont> yeah
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[07:02] <trulux> doko: ping
[07:05] <doko> trulux: no
[07:06] <trulux> doko: do you know when pitti will become available?
[07:07] <doko> it's bank holiday today
[07:09] <trulux> doko: haha, here I have holidays too. anyways, it seems that I'm so screwed up that I still sit in front of my little box to help out my Ubuntu folks
[07:09] <trulux> ;P
[07:18] <trulux> done
[07:18] <trulux> krsec finished
[07:18] <trulux> just about to add the randomization stuff
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[07:26] <thom> omfg
[07:27] <Amaranth> ?
[07:27] <thom> firefox is fubar
[07:27] <thom> in a really, really odd and irritating way
[07:30] <zyga> thom: why?
[07:30] <thom> because the build system for security/ isn't integrated into the rest of the build system in 1.0
[07:32] <zyga> thom: was it any better before 1.0?
[07:33] <thom> zyga: eh? it's always been broken, but the change in compiler really shows up the breakage hard
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[08:01] <zul> hey
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[08:22] <cartman> any news on Cxx Abi transition?
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[08:58] <Kamion> lamont: could you enable breezy d-i daily builds, please?
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[09:02] <Kamion> doko: the CDs are looking pretty good now; please don't consider yourself blocked on me any longer, if you were waiting on me
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[09:25] <doko> Kamion: thanks, it's not you I'm waiting for
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[09:46] <trulux> dilinger: ping
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=== thom sighs
[10:01] <thom> some combination of MoM, debian and me dropped a part of the gcc-4.0 patch
[10:01] <thom> suck
[10:04] <dilinger> trulux: pong
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[10:05] <trulux> dilinger: could we talk for a whle?
[10:08] <dilinger> trulux: a little busy atm; it would be better if you emailed me or something
[10:08] <trulux> dilinger: OK
[10:08] <trulux> dilinger: will do
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[10:25] <thom> lamont: also, the new firefox has hppa and ia64 love, so we may well get an installable -desktop finally
[10:31] <lamont> thom: woot!
[10:31] <lamont> Kamion: will do
[10:32] <thom> and it's uploaded
=== thom -> dinner
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released!  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-April/000023.html | MOM is awake!
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Pathoschild at Sun Apr 17 13:37:05 2005
[06:29] <AndyFitz> mpt: ping
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[06:38] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  more on the zv5405us bug
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  usb 1.1 doesn't work, usb 2.0 does
[06:39] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: add the info to the bug please
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> firefox just crashed.
[06:41] <daniels> tseng: ping
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels]  by daniels
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[06:57] <mpt> AndyFitz: pong
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[07:34] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[07:34] <fabbione> lamont: ?
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[07:39] <AndyFitz> mpt: pmed 
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[07:59] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[07:59] <jdub> fabbione: pong
[08:01] <fabbione> jdub: some rhcluster stuff is going upstream right now :)
[08:01] <fabbione> at least they pushed the patches
[08:01] <fabbione> so that's good
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[08:04] <jdub> fabbione: that's great news :-)
[08:05] <fabbione> yup
[08:05] <fabbione> less work for me :)
[08:05] <Lathiat> hehe
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[08:06] <hiweed> hey all
[08:06] <hiweed> a question, please.
[08:07] <hiweed> does Ubuntu manage pkgs pool via dak?
[08:07] <hiweed> a tool named katie, akar dak.
[08:07] <bob2> katie is part of dak
[08:07] <hiweed> and, does ubuntu define the tubuntu-desktop TASK via dak?
[08:08] <hiweed> I know it install the tubuntu-desktop Task after reboot.
[08:08] <hiweed> but I dunno when and where the task was defined.
[08:09] <bob2> ubuntu-desktop looks an awful lot like a package to me
[08:09] <hiweed> no, it's a task.
[08:10] <bob2> if you say so
[08:10] <hiweed> in fact, it is. :-)
[08:10] <bob2> even tho it's built from the ubuntu-meta source package?
[08:10] <bob2> and appears in the pool?
[08:12] <hiweed> ehhhh...
[08:13] <hiweed> sorry I can not get it. Would you change a word?
[08:16] <jdub> hiweed: it's both :-)
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[08:16] <hiweed> both?
[08:16] <jdub> both a task and a package
[08:17] <hiweed> oh?
[08:17] <hiweed> well...
[08:17] <hiweed> so, which one will be installed? the task or the meta-pkgs?
[08:17] <jdub> both :)
[08:18] <hiweed> Wow
[08:18] <hiweed> cannt believe it~
[08:18] <hiweed> are u sure?
[08:18] <jdub> relatively sure, yes
[08:18] <jdub> the only bit i'm not positive about is whether we still use the task in the installer
[08:19] <jdub> but i'm fairly sure of that
[08:19] <hiweed> ok thank you, jdub.
[08:19] <Burgundavia> jdub, can I close 9373
[08:19] <hiweed> I studied Ubuntu only 4.10, so...
[08:20] <hiweed> jdub, is the task define by dak?
[08:21] <jdub> Burgundavia: if you've fixed it, yes, if not, comment that it should be considered
[08:21] <jdub> hiweed: believe so, for the moment
[08:22] <hiweed> ok thanks.
[08:23] <Burgundavia> jdub, ok, is odd
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[08:47] <pitti> Morning
[08:49] <jsgotangco> pitti, hey
[08:50] <hiweed> Is the Ubuntu LiveCD built automatically?
[08:50] <fabbione> hi pitti
[08:50] <fabbione> pitti: you got some crack
[08:52] <fabbione> hiweed: yes
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[09:01] <hiweed> thank you, fabbione.
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[09:02] <hiweed> I can find the debian-cd package from archive.ubuntu.com before, but now I cannot find it.
[09:02] <hiweed> and I also wanna get the Live-CD-auto-build-tool.
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[09:28] <Treenaks>  morning chmj 
[09:28] <chmj> morning Treenaks 
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[09:57] <daniels> thom!!!
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[10:02] <koke> any dkpg mantainer here??
[10:02] <seb128> why not asking your question?
[10:04] <koke> seb128: it's not a question :D
[10:04] <koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/patches/dpkg_support-for-ubuntu-naming-scheme.diff
[10:04] <Treenaks> seb128: maybe he's monitoring/stalking dpkg developers, and that /is/ the question
[10:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, that CD image looks good to go
[10:04] <seb128> koke: questions like "any .... here" are likely to be ignored
[10:05] <koke> seb128: sorry, you're right
[10:05] <seb128> np
[10:05] <koke> I usually ingore them too
[10:05] <seb128> what does the change do?
[10:05] <thom> daniels: ?
[10:06] <seb128> thom: they comment to say "dup of ...", there is no way to duplicate a bug with malone?
[10:06] <koke> seb128: when you are packaging a new upstream version with -0ubuntu1 you have to specify -sa to debuild to upload the full source
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[10:07] <seb128> koke: right, I was just wondering why you use a fixed number, changelog not clear :)
[10:08] <seb128> anyway you should bugzilla that on dpkg imho
[10:08] <jdub> morning euros :-)
[10:08] <seb128> hey jdub :)
[10:09] <daniels> thom: so, um
[10:09] <daniels> thom: hypothetically, if every time I pressed an arrow key in a large multi-line text box (BreezyGoals edit), Firefox crashed ... ideas?
[10:09] <seb128> jdub: can you change the xscreensaver component on bugzilla to point to ogra?
[10:09] <jdub> seb128: ok
[10:10] <seb128> thanks
[10:10] <seb128> daniels: about this panel hating you ... do you have a drawer near of a screen corner?
[10:11] <daniels> seb128: what's a drawer? :)
[10:11] <daniels> seb128: my panel is totally stock
[10:11] <seb128> a box which contains icons
[10:12] <seb128> ie: you click on it, it opens a line with the icons you have stored here
[10:12] <seb128> anyway that's not a part of the stock panel, so that's not that
[10:12] <seb128> can you do what upstream asked on the bug? :)
[10:13] <thom> daniels: bug filed, no idea why
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[10:16] <JaneW> who is in charge of GnomePanelEnhancements?
[10:16] <JaneW> mjg59: can I put you as as econd on WirelessNetworkManagement?
[10:16] <seb128> JaneW: me?
[10:17] <thom> JaneW: put me, since it's just a side effect of NetworkMagic
[10:17] <jdub> JaneW: put seb128, i'll second or interested
[10:17] <seb128> JaneW: oh, no, this one. No BOF about that... is that actually anything?
[10:17] <JaneW>  are we talking about Gnome now?
[10:17] <jdub> seb128: i'll write it up - it's about making the panel sexy :)
[10:17] <seb128> GnomePanelEnhancements
[10:18] <thom> JaneW: WirelessNetworkMagic probably shouldn't really exist as a seperate goal, tbh
[10:18] <seb128> jdub: stop giving me extra work dude :p
[10:18] <JaneW> yes, there's not much there
[10:18] <jdub> JaneW: i spoke to mark about it in more detail
[10:18] <thom> uh, WirelessNetworkManagement
[10:18] <seb128> jdub: but alright, if we can make it sexier :)
[10:18] <jdub> seb128: it's, uh, bounty material... :)
[10:18] <JaneW> ok, so can I merge WirelessNetworkManagement with NetworkMagic?
[10:18] <thom> yes
[10:18] <JaneW> ok done
[10:18] <seb128> jdub: k
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[10:18] <ajmitch> evening all
[10:19] <daniels> thom: cheers.  i'm on 0ubuntu5 fwiw.
[10:20] <thom> daniels: nod. 1.0.4-1ubuntu2 doesn't appear to be any better  :/
[10:20] <JaneW> ok so who's on Gnome?
[10:20] <fabbione> did anybody bother to fix hal FTBFS?
[10:20] <jdub> JaneW: in general, seb
[10:20] <JaneW> seb and jdub then?
[10:20] <jdub> JaneW: for this one, yeah
[10:20] <daniels> thom: bong
[10:21] <jdub> ogra_d: ping
[10:21] <jdub> i wonder what _d means
[10:21] <JaneW> dead?
[10:22] <jdub> *uncomfortable silence*
[10:22] <JaneW> heh
[10:22] <Treenaks> daemon mode?
[10:22] <JaneW> dormant
[10:23] <JaneW> docile
[10:23] <JaneW> decaying
[10:23] <Treenaks> ogra? docile? :)
[10:23] <jsgotangco> ah JaneW just the person i want to see today
[10:23] <JaneW> douching
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[10:23] <fabbione> ducking
[10:23] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco ;)
[10:23] <jdub> *uncomfortable silence*
[10:23] <JaneW> hehe
[10:23] <jdub> JaneW: *cough*
[10:23] <jsgotangco> douching yes!
=== JaneW stops lest jdub gets offended (further)
[10:24] <jdub> this is a family channel ;)
=== Burgundavia is now glad he was not at UDU, as assignments seem to be more plentiful than wanted
[10:24] <JaneW> Burgundavia: indeed, wnat some!?
[10:25] <daniels> Burgundavia volunteers for XorgAutoconfiguration
[10:25] <JaneW> doko: ping
[10:25] <JaneW> cool ;)
[10:25] <Burgundavia> JaneW, I don't program
[10:25] <JaneW> but do you code...? ;)
[10:25] <Burgundavia> nope
[10:25] <JaneW> or hack?
[10:25] <JaneW> :P
[10:25] <Burgundavia> nope
[10:26] <Burgundavia> produce hot air, docs and more hot air
[10:26] <doko> JaneW: pong
[10:26] <jsgotangco> JaneW, PDASupport draft spec Done, needs editing/review
[10:26] <seb128> Burgundavia: merge bugs are closed when we have actually merged the Debian changes (ie: we have <debian-version>ubuntu<n>), not when we have the same app version
[10:26] <JaneW> doko: hi, could you update the status of your Breezy Goals please?
[10:26] <thom> jsgotangco: you rule, dude
[10:27] <JaneW> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
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[10:27] <doko> JaneW: which ones?
[10:27] <Burgundavia> seb128, ok, I just wondered, as I couldn't see anything in the buildlogs, but the version numbers were the same
[10:27] <JaneW> jsgotangco: COOL, is cc still available for that?
[10:27] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[10:27] <JaneW> doko: go look at page, the ones with your name as lead. Thanks.
=== jsgotangco not sure he didnt put anything in queue
[10:27] <jsgotangco> anything/anyone
[10:28] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, hey
[10:28] <seb128> Burgundavia: the version number is not the same, -1ubuntu against 1.1
=== Burgundavia is affirmed in his role as a non-coder/hacker/etc.
=== JaneW gets coffeee
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[10:31] <jsgotangco> its not so hard once you get your bearings
[10:31] <JaneW> seb128: so now that you own GnomePanel... what's the status... ?
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=== JaneW wonders where mvo is these days?
[10:32] <seb128> JaneW: <jdub> seb128: i'll write it up     <jdub> seb128: it's, uh, bounty material... :)
[10:33] <jdub> ha ha
[10:33] <cc> JaneW: available for what? poke me, and i'll take a gander
[10:33] <seb128> JaneW: yesterday was not working days for him, dunno for today
[10:33] <seb128> jdub: :-P
[10:34] <daniels> jsgotangco: nice work with PDASupport :)
[10:36] <jsgotangco> :D
[10:36] <jsgotangco> took me an hour heh
=== jsgotangco wonders why he wasn't that good during UDU
=== JaneW pokes cc
[10:40] <JaneW> cc: jsgotangco: JaneW, PDASupport draft spec Done, needs editing/review
[10:41] <cc> JaneW: ok, will take a gander
[10:41] <JaneW> jsgotangco: lack of sleep maybe?
[10:42] <JaneW> seb128: thanks I updated accordingly.
[10:42] <seb128> np
[10:44] <jordi> hey JaneW 
[10:45] <jordi> seb128: do you have experience moving CVS branches?
[10:45] <seb128> jordi: sure, ignore other people :p
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[10:45] <JaneW> hey jordi: you better?
[10:45] <seb128> jordi: moving branches? what do you mean?
[10:45] <jordi> seb128: I want a branch to become HEAD, HEAD to become another branch
[10:45] <JaneW> seb128: jealous? ;)
[10:46] <seb128> JaneW: not really :p
[10:46] <jordi> JaneW: I still have the last bits of the cold, but fever and all of that is thankfully gone :)
[10:46] <jordi> JaneW: he is
[10:46] <JaneW> jordi: good..
[10:46] <JaneW> about being better I mean!
[10:46] <jordi> lol
[10:46] <seb128> jordi: not sure on how to make a branch become HEAD
[10:47] <jordi> I'll find out, Hallski should know. He does this every 3 days with gossip
[10:47] <daniels> merge it to HEAD?
[10:47] <seb128> what I was thinking
[10:47] <JaneW> thom: would netwprk magic affect the kernel? (I am thinking not..)
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[10:47] <JaneW> s/netwprk/network
[10:47] <thom> JaneW: no
[10:48] <JaneW> cool thanks
[10:48] <jordi> JaneW: hey I'm catched up with you again last Sunday: I'm 27 now :P
[10:48] <jordi> s/I'm/I/
[10:49] <thom> seb128: yes, it seems that way (no way to do dups in malone; luis has already filed a bug for it)
[10:49] <daniels> it would be ironic if luis's bug was a duplicate of something else, but they couldn't mark it as such
[10:49] <seb128> thom: :(
[10:49] <seb128> daniels: you have opened a couple of dups too :)
[10:49] <JaneW> jordi: cool congrats... not quite caught up though ;)
[10:50] <jdub> daniels: that's almost filing two bugs for anyway :-)
[10:50] <daniels> seb128: bah
[10:50] <jordi> JaneW: I'll get there sometime :)
[10:50] <daniels> only one, AFAICT
[10:50] <daniels> and I blame the search for not letting me find it easily
[10:50] <seb128> yeah, at least the malone search works *g*
[10:50] <JaneW> jdub: you happy to be 2nd on FontHandling?
[10:51] <jdub> JaneW: best to choose someone else, methinks
[10:51] <seb128> oh, jdub doing fonts stuff? :)
[10:51] <JaneW> jdub: ok, any suggestions?
[10:51] <seb128> I've some font issues for you dude :p
[10:51] <jdub> JaneW: seb128 of course!
[10:51] <jdub> ;-)
[10:51] <seb128> no way
[10:51] <JaneW> jdub: for the record it was doko who nominated you
[10:51] <seb128> daniels for fonts?
[10:51] <JaneW> hehe
[10:51] <JaneW> seb it is
[10:51] <jdub> no, i think daniels, thom, ... ?
[10:51] <JaneW> *duck*
[10:52] <jdub> possibly ogra
[10:52] <thom> jdub: piss off. :-)
[10:52] <JaneW> we need a lead and 2nd
[10:52] <doko> JaneW: FontHandling:  People: BenjaminMakoHillLead, JeffWaughSecond, why daniels?
[10:52] <JaneW> I thought this was a family # ;)
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[10:52] <jdub> doko: mako and i wrote the spec only :)
[10:53] <JaneW> doko: yeah lead and 2nd on spec aren't always who are lead and 2nd for implementation
=== seb128_ kicks the dsl IP changes
[10:53] <seb128_> <JaneW> seb it is
[10:53] <doko> jdub: I committed for the OOo side, you wanted at least to ask somebody / make it a bounty, IIRC
[10:53] <seb128_> <seb128> no no no
[10:53] <seb128_> <seb128> fonts hate me
[10:53] <seb128_> <seb128> I've switched to aterm because I can't get a correct g-t with the new fontconfig
[10:53] <seb128_> --- Disconnected ().
[10:53] <seb128_> 
[10:53] <seb128_> why not trying with daniels? :)
[10:54] <jordi> seb128: heh, aterm eh?
[10:54] <daniels> um, please not me for fonts
[10:54] <jordi> seb128: does aterm do utf-8 these days?
[10:54] <seb128_> not the Debian version
[10:54] <jdub> seb128_: what's wrong with it?
[10:54] <daniels> not being funny or anything, but I really don't know that much about fonts
=== JaneW waits for volunteers for FontHandling
[10:55] <seb128_> but there is a malone bug I've read this morning saying aterm 1.0 does and is around since january
[10:55] <seb128_> but not packaged
=== ajmitch backs away quickly from fonts
[10:55] <JaneW> does anyone know /like fonts?
[10:55] <JaneW> even a little?
[10:56] <seb128_> jdub: before: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/font1.png
[10:56] <seb128_> jdub: now: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/font2.png
[10:57] <jordi> seb128: you mean aterm in Debian does not do utf-8 while it can?
[10:57] <jordi> doh, I'm killing goran
=== JaneW will bbl, conducting an interview now...
[10:57] <seb128_> jdub: that's supposed to be a fixed 10x20
[10:57] <seb128_> jordi: yep
[10:57] <jordi> seb128_: those fons rock :D
[10:58] <seb128_> jordi: I like the font1 :)
[10:58] <jdub> seb128_: weird
[10:58] <thom> seb128_: and it's made it be in the wrong language too!
[10:58] <jordi> thom: people like the climbing pics
[10:59] <seb128_> jordi: there is a aterm 1.0 since january according to the website 
[10:59] <jordi> I should post them in planet
[10:59] <thom> jordi: so it seems
[10:59] <jordi> seb128_: pfft
[10:59] <daniels> ok, so font handling seems to mainly be about font selection UI, and actual fonts themselves (as opposed to font-handling libraries, e.g. fontconfig, pango, xft, freetype)
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[11:00] <JaneW> daniels: that mean you want it? huh huh?
[11:00] <jdub> daniels: i think a chunk of it will be fontconfig configuration changes
[11:01] <daniels> JaneW: so, I know a little bit about fontconfig/pango/xft/freetype, but absolutely shit-all about fonts themselves, and even less about UI design
[11:01] <jdub> daniels: doko mentioned that he's done something on the OOo side
[11:01] <daniels> doko: ?
[11:01] <Burgundavia> daniels, I can help you with UI stuff, but I know shit about programming
[11:01] <doko> done? no. OOo does have it's own selection mechanism, on top of fontconfig.
[11:02] <jdthood> mdz: I have a question about http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioInfrastructure
[11:02] <jdub> jdthood: mdz is away atm
[11:02] <JaneW> ok so daniels and Burgundavia it is...?
[11:02] <JaneW> you can call on help if/when you need it...
[11:03] <JaneW> as you can see everyone LOVES fonts
[11:03] <jdub> it will mostly involve fontconfig config changes
[11:03] <jdub> possibly some OOo and GTK+ hacking
[11:03] <jdub> and maybe some standards definition with upstream
=== JaneW taps fingers
[11:06] <jsgotangco> would you like a manicure on those fingers
[11:06] <daniels> seriously, I'm out of my depth on FontHandling
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[11:06] <jordi> bunch of slackers :P
[11:07] <seb128_> jordi wants to do fonts, see
[11:07] <jordi> having said that, it's time for break/cafeteria.
[11:07] <ajmitch> jordi: slacker :P
[11:07] <doko> jordi: great!
=== Burgundavia now observes why fonts look like crap on linux
[11:07] <seb128_> they do?
[11:07] <JaneW> jsgotangco: absolutely, you offering?
[11:08] <jsgotangco> no way
[11:08] <JaneW> jordi!
[11:08] <JaneW> ok it;s yours
[11:08] <ajmitch> lucky jordi :)
=== jsgotangco doesnt know anything about looking good either
=== JaneW ammends with jordi's name
[11:08] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, your a guy
[11:08] <JaneW> jsgotangco :P
=== ajmitch was almost tempted to step forward for fonts for a minute there
[11:10] <JaneW> ajmitch, it;s not too late... we need a second
[11:11] <mpt> Did someone mention UI design?
[11:12] <jdub> mpt: daniels was grasping for straws
=== ajmitch doesn't want to take on what he can't guarantee time for at the moment
[11:13] <JaneW> mpt: you want your name there too?
[11:15] <mpt> my name where?
=== mpt finishes reading scrollback
[11:18] <Burgundavia> mpt, UI for the font stuff
[11:19] <mpt> okie dokie
[11:20] <jdub> none of it requires ui design
[11:20] <mpt> What am I good for then? nothing
[11:20] <jdub> making launchpad rock
[11:21] <mpt> Fontilus looks like it'd be very cool with a couple of tweaks
[11:23] <jdub> and some exposure
[11:23] <jdub> there's something for you to muse upon
[11:23] <jdub> the only way of clicking into fonts:/// atm is the button in the details section of the font preferences dialogue
[11:23] <jdub> ie. it's very well hidden
[11:23] <jdub> it would suck to have two fonts related icons in the desktop preferences menu though
[11:24] <jdub> so if you can figure out a good way to expose fonts:/// that'd be cool
[11:24] <mpt> oh, I hadn't noticed that button
[11:24] <jdub> it may just involve a nicer button from the first font prefs page
[11:24] <mpt> That's easy
[11:24] <mpt> Just make Fonts a real, single folder somewhere obvious
[11:24] <jdub> (i believe that dialogue is going to be tabbed in future)
[11:24] <mpt> At least the *design* is easy :-) ... I imagine implementing that would be hell
[11:24] <jdub> "somewhere obvious" and "real" are the problems there
[11:25] <jdub> fonts:/// is currently a list of the fonts fontconfig knows about, between system fonts and user fonts (in ~/.fonts)
[11:25] <mpt> fonts:////////////
[11:25] <mpt> What is it with Nautilus and slashes
[11:26] <JaneW> mpt: careful just soeaking can be construed as voluneteering, if I am desperate ;)
[11:26] <jdub> mpt: that's actually the correct definition of a hostless schema
[11:26] <jdub> fonts://<host>/<path>
[11:26] <mpt> e.g. fonts://localhost/Vera%20Sans ?
[11:27] <jdub> that's what fonts:/// means, yeah
[11:27] <jdub> fabbione: has anyone mentioned problems with tg3 in the current ubuntu 2.6.12?
=== mpt dreams about Fonts/ being just another search folder
[11:28] <jdub> fabbione: also, i'm starting to have regular ipw2200 resets, which i didn't have before
[11:28] <fabbione> jdub: i use tg3 here and it works fine
[11:28] <jdub> hmm
[11:28] <fabbione> ipw2200 is a known upstream problem
[11:28] <jdub> can't seem to get link lights on my notebook
[11:29] <jdub> hrm
[11:29] <jdub> might be a docking station buglet
[11:29] <fabbione> probably
=== Riddell_ [jr@muse.19inch.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:36] <jdub> fabbione: hrm, okay - so with 2.6.10 i can use my docking station ethernet port, with 2.6.12 i can't
=== jdub throws things around a bit before considering the most useful way to deal with this issue
[11:36] <fabbione> jdub: is it a passtrough? or the docking station has its own hw?
[11:37] <fabbione> because we are traking tg3 from upstream... there is nothing fancy about it
[11:37] <jdub> fabbione: docking station has its own port, but it's the same nic running it
[11:37] <fabbione> jdub: try to unload/reload the module once you are docked?
[11:37] <jdub> i have some power management problems with the docking station too
[11:37] <jdub> fabbione: yeah, have done
[11:37] <jdub> fabbione: did not work (with 2.6.12)
[11:38] <fabbione> same if you boot directly docked?
[11:39] <jdub> hrm, can't be sure i adequately tested that
[11:39] <jdub> will reboot again
[11:39] <fabbione> jdub: the driver has major updates...
=== sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:40] <fabbione> between .10 and .12
[11:40] <jdub> aha :)
[11:41] <jdub> i'm in a terrible position for LaptopMission though - dell just stopped shipping this model ;-)
[11:41] <Treenaks> fabbione: also between 8.1 and .10 (warty vs hoary)?
[11:41] <jdub> hrm
[11:42] <jdub> fabbione: ok, now it worked
=== jdub tries a few other things
[11:43] <fabbione> Treenaks: mostlikely yes
[11:44] <Treenaks> fabbione: cool, that might fix my "8 megabit tcp connections stall out after some time" problems
=== Treenaks pokes Dell
[11:44] <fabbione> Treenaks: i am not sure i want to know about it :)
[11:44] <Treenaks> fabbione: I'll file a bug if it isn't fixed in hoary -- I'm going to upgrade that server sometime this or next week
[11:45] <fabbione> Treenaks: i am more interested to know if it doesn't work in breezy
[11:45] <fabbione> in hoary there is nothing i can do
[11:49] <Kamion> mjg59: ok, great, thanks
[11:49] <jdub> morning Kamion 
[11:53] <Kamion> morning
[11:54] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[11:55] <fabbione> Kamion: any news for partman-auto-lvm?
=== Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-131.wireless.uva.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:55] <Treenaks> fabbione: I'm not going to upgrade production servers to breezy, tyvm
=== pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:56] <fabbione> Treenaks: no need to. just test the kernel :)
[11:57] <pitti> Hi again
[11:57] <fabbione> hey pitti
[11:59] <seb128> hi pitti 
[11:59] <seb128> pitti: how do you feel?
[11:59] <pitti> Hey seb128
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: my stomach and me have different opinions :-/
[12:00] <seb128> :(
[12:01] <pitti> stomach lining  inflammation
[12:02] <Treenaks> pitti: ouch
[12:05] <Riddell> Kamion, thom: the torrents still don't seem to be working
[12:05] <sladen> jdub: get a thinkpad!
[12:06] <tseng> daniels: pong
[12:06] <daniels> tseng: how's mono-in-main going?
[12:07] <tseng> daniels: its up to pitti now
[12:07] <daniels> pitti: ping :)
[12:07] <pitti> oh right, I'm going to review it today
[12:07] <pitti> daniels: lemme finish my security mail, then I take a look at mono
[12:08] <ogra> pitti, btw, these packages will still need some love so dont judge them to hard :)
[12:08] <pitti> daniels: (I mean, evertything other than "it's fine for me" is out of discussion anyway, isn't it? :-) )
[12:08] <ogra> yeah
[12:08] <pitti> neverthless, I also look for obvious packaging bugs
=== ogra sighs
[12:09] <tseng> lintian has silly stuff still ogra, but i dont think there are a bunch of "bugs"
[12:10] <ogra> lets see :)
[12:10] <seb128> do you guys merge with debian packages for blam/muine/... ?
[12:11] <seb128> there is some bugzilla bugs open about the merges, who should get them?
[12:11] <tseng> me
[12:11] <ogra> seb128, tseng 
[12:11] <tseng> we are ahead of debian for both
[12:11] <tseng> but I will be sure to check them out
[12:11] <seb128> same for GNOME, but doesn't prevent to merge and put the changes on top of the merge
[12:12] <Kamion> fabbione: that would be an elmo question
[12:12] <Kamion> fabbione: er ... except no it wouldn't, sorry
[12:12] <Kamion> fabbione: I'll upload it today
[12:12] <fabbione> Kamion: is it sitting in NEW i guess....
[12:12] <fabbione> ah ok :)
[12:12] <fabbione> thanks
[12:12] <Kamion> fabbione: no, I'm just talking bollocks :)
[12:13] <Kamion> Riddell: no idea about that, sorry
=== fabbione hands some more caffeine to Kamion 
[12:13] <Kamion> two cups of coffee already, probably not enough
[12:15] <fabbione> ehhe
[12:15] <daniels> pitti: heh
[12:16] <fabbione> daniels, pitti: who did the last hal upload?
[12:16] <pitti> fabbione: me
[12:16] <fabbione> (0.5.2)
[12:16] <fabbione> pitti: it's FTBFS
[12:16] <fabbione> in all arches
[12:16] <pitti> meh?
=== pitti looks
[12:17] <Burgundavia> mpt, ping
[12:17] <mpt> pong
[12:17] <Burgundavia> mpt, speaking of fonts, have you seen the thread on usablity about fonts?
[12:17] <mpt> yes
[12:17] <pitti> gosh, compressed build logs are so evil...
[12:17] <Burgundavia> ok, just checking, you usually comment on these things, but I noticed you hadn't
=== seb128 hates these .bz2 build logs
[12:18] <mpt> Burgundavia: What's the use
[12:18] <Burgundavia> mpt, ok
[12:18] <Burgundavia> mpt, the latest post seemed to be quite promising
[12:18] <fabbione> jdub: new inotify is in my kernel branch :)
[12:19] <fabbione> hmm it would be nice if we could get automatic notification of FTBFS
[12:19] <mpt> Burgundavia: It needs some rich philanthropist to come along and say "the filesystem hierarchy is full of crap", and pay bounties to fix it, so that (as one of the side-effects) Fonts is in a single folder people can find in Nautilus
=== zeedo [~zeedo@www.reboot-robot.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:21] <Treenaks> mpt: yeah, let's break unixyness!
[12:21] <Burgundavia> mpt, we have one of those, in a cage somewhere, we just need to prod him in the right way
[12:21] <mpt> Treenaks: I'm tired of being a eunuch
[12:22] <Treenaks> mpt: usability is nice, but please think about reality too
[12:22] <Burgundavia> you can do it so that it is transparent to the user and it doesn't break unix stuff
[12:22] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, that is what MS says. We have to do better
[12:22] <mpt> Treenaks: Thankyou for being exhibit A
[12:22] <daniels> seb128: you too, hey?
[12:22] <Treenaks> mpt: np
[12:23] <seb128> daniels: yeah!
[12:23] <Burgundavia> mpt, fonts are a major blocker issue for artists. How can we make our pet billionaire know that?
=== kent [~kent@c-b1c871d5.432-1-64736c13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:25] <mpt> Burgundavia: The good news is that about two years after Longhorn eventually ships with Search Folders that work roughly the way they do in OS X, someone on lkml will say "Oh yeah, maybe we should get around to doing that", and then two years after that it'll be ready, and then about two years after that someone will say "hey, we could use that for fonts", and about five years after *that* apps might mostly be looking in a single Fonts fold
[12:25] <daniels> hate to break it to you all, but 'let's get rid of the hierachy' doesn't solve any problems
[12:26] <ogra> mpt, http://beaglewiki.org/Main_Page
=== daniels notes that OS X still has a very definite hierachy.
[12:26] <ogra> mpt, we were first
=== JaneW is back
[12:27] <Treenaks> ogra: now all it needs is a "Fonts" plugin and a way to find only fonts, AND a way for apps to use it
[12:27] <Burgundavia> we just need to hide the hierachy from the user
[12:27] <mpt> "The most recent version of Beagle is 0.0.9"
[12:27] <JaneW> so what was the final result on FontHandling? jordi & ajmitch?
[12:27] <ogra> mpt, beagle was announced and showed before apple had stolen its original name (dashboard)
[12:27] <daniels> if only we had a generally unified font-handling library
[12:27] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:27] <daniels> mpt: beagle works today
[12:27] <jordi> JaneW: err, seb128 and gtk+
[12:27] <ogra> mpt, breezy will ship it :)
[12:28] <mpt> it's all about the ship date
[12:28] <Treenaks> why does the dog in the logo look so angry? (or am I just not a dog expert?)
[12:28] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, it doesn't look angry to me
[12:28] <mpt> It's angry that it's a stand-in for another name? :-)
[12:28] <mpt> yeah, the eye needs rotating 180 degrees
[12:29] <ogra> yeah, itz wants its name back :)
[12:29] <jsgotangco> dashboard?
[12:29] <ogra> yep
[12:29] <jsgotangco> hehe
=== jsgotangco prefers beagle
=== seb128 kicks jordi 
[12:29] <jsgotangco> yeah apple's dashboard was a total rip
[12:30] <ogra> jsgotangco, i prefer that big companys dont steal names from OSS ;)
[12:30] <Treenaks> ogra: register them as trademarks :)
[12:30] <Treenaks> ogra: slap them with lawsuits
[12:30] <ogra> bah
[12:30] <Burgundavia> dashboard is a very very common name
[12:30] <JaneW> grrr
[12:30] <ogra> why cant the world "just work" ?
=== ogra sighs
[12:30] <jsgotangco> although apple's dashboard is actually some software they bought
[12:30] <mpt> ogra: You talking about trademarks, or computers?
[12:31] <ogra> mpt, humans
[12:31] <jsgotangco> they look morelike gdesklets
[12:31] <mpt> ogra: Because there's humans in it.
[12:31] <Treenaks> in computers? so THAT's why it's unreliable ;)
[12:31] <ogra> lol
[12:31] <JaneW> lol
[12:31] <mpt> Ubuntu is made of people! PEOPLE!
[12:31] <JaneW> yes little shunken humands
[12:31] <Treenaks> mpt: So is Soylent Green. Your point? :)
[12:31] <JaneW> who flick switches
[12:32] <mpt> Treenaks: Yes, thankyou for picking up on the reference
[12:32] <JaneW> but they get tired sometimes and make mistakes
=== jordi goes see what's FontHandling is actually about.
[12:33] <jordi> woah, I'm actually listed as lead
[12:33] <pitti> ogra, tseng: it is right that only a single patch in debian/patches is actually applied?
[12:34] <tseng> pitti: yes
[12:34] <tseng> pitti: upstream says we can drop it also.
[12:34] <tseng> so it will be gone soon.
[12:34] <jsgotangco> im going home
[12:34] <tseng> bye jerome
[12:34] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:35] <jordi> JaneW: now seriously, I guess I can help with finding useful fonts for i18n and so on, but other bits I'm probably clueless
[12:36] <jordi> JaneW: also, I dunno how much time I can devote to this, and when
=== tja [~tjaalton@replicant.hut.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:38] <pitti> ogra, tseng: there are lots of dummy manpages in debian/man, will they become real eventually (from upstream)
[12:38] <pitti> ?
[12:38] <tseng> pitti: ogra is making patches for manpage suckiness
[12:38] <ogra> i think they wait for my patch (not sure )
[12:38] <tseng> i can help fill i missing ones
[12:38] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:40] <tseng> we need to push back really hard on upstream about docs / build systems over the next few months
[12:40] <pitti> ogra, tseng: mono.deb should be arch all
[12:40] <tseng> hm you sure?
[12:40] <ogra> hmm, amd64 has special compile options
[12:40] <pitti> tseng: it only contains a single symlink
[12:41] <pitti> tseng: ./usr/share/doc/mono -> mono-common
[12:41] <pitti> tseng: or does it have arch-specific dependencies?
[12:42] <tseng> are you talking about the meta package?
[12:42] <pitti> mono_1.1.7-0ubuntu4_powerpc.deb
[12:42] <tseng> yes that is a meta package on the other parts
[12:42] <tseng> some are arch dependent
[12:43] <pitti> tseng: yes, but mono_1.1.7-0ubuntu4_powerpc.deb should be arch:all
[12:43] <tseng> ok.
[12:43] <tseng> it will be in my next upload
[12:45] <pitti> tseng: same for mono-devel
[12:45] <ogra> tseng, btw, shouldnt we sk for main upload rights for you ?
[12:45] <ogra> ask even
[12:45] <tseng> ogra: we should but mdz is not here?
[12:45] <ogra> today is TB meeting
[12:45] <tseng> yes
[12:45] <tseng> do I have to be there?
[12:45] <tseng> I can try
[12:46] <Kamion> if you can
[12:46] <ogra> put you on the agenda.... and letsa see
[12:46] <ogra> --a
[12:46] <pitti> tseng: OTOH mono-devel is so utterly empty that this package should probably disappear entirely
[12:46] <Kamion> bugger, I have to rebuild before releasing colony-1
[12:46] <daniels> Kamion: you're releasing colony-1 now?
[12:46] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <Kamion> accidentally built it against the hoary-hp-laptop debian-cd branch ... no wonder it didn't reboot properly on amd64
[12:46] <Kamion> daniels: yes
=== ogra cant get used to this new name scheme
[12:46] <daniels> oh, cool
[12:46] <tseng> pitti: it was added for users, they have a really hard time keeping straight what packages you need
[12:47] <daniels> so breaking the archive isn't too incredibly fatal
[12:47] <tseng> pitti: and complained loudly
[12:47] <Kamion> if the CDs I'm building now don't work, I'll just errata the problems from the last build
[12:47] <pitti> tseng: so it's a metapackage again?
[12:47] <tseng> yes.
[12:47] <pitti> tseng: so at least it should be arch all then
[12:47] <tseng> done
[12:47] <pitti> tseng: but what about the mono package then?
[12:47] <pitti> it's a metapackage too
[12:47] <Kamion> daniels: right, I'm amazed I got this long to do it :-)
[12:47] <tseng> they both are
[12:48] <tseng> one is runtime, one is extra devel bits
[12:48] <pitti> tseng: m-assemblies-arch is empty as well
[12:48] <tseng> ill have to check with meebey on that
[12:50] <pitti> tseng, ogra: okay, if the manpages and empty/arch all packages are dealt with, the packaging is okay for me
[12:50] <tseng> <meebey> there was and there may will be in the future
[12:50] <tseng> <meebey> winelib it was I think
[12:50] <tseng> but I can remove it locally for the time being, if its against policy
=== mkde [~Matt_@217.150.124.162]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:50] <pitti> tseng: no, it's not against policy, but it clutters up the archive somewhat
[12:50] <tseng> pitti: yay! thanks
[12:50] <pitti> tseng: but it's not a biggie
[12:51] <mkde> hi all
[12:51] <mkde> pitti, is a security update for firefox in the offing do you know?
[12:51] <pitti> tseng, ogra: only one CAN so far (CAN-2005-0509), is that fixed?
[12:51] <pitti> mkde: yes, as soon as the 1.0.4 patches are published (tomorrow)
[12:51] <mkde> pitti, for hoary?
[12:51] <tseng> pitti: appplies to 1.0.5
[12:51] <pitti> mkde: yes
[12:52] <mkde> pitti, supercool
[12:52] <ogra> pitti, we use 1.1.7
[12:52] <mkde> thanks
[12:52] <pitti> tseng: okay, fixed upstream then I guess
[12:52] <tseng> pitti: but i should put that on my list for hoary
[12:52] <pitti> okay, great
=== pitti -> lunch
[12:52] <tseng> thanks pitti
[12:52] <tseng> see you soon, time for work
[12:52] <ogra> yeah, thanks pitti 
=== Keybuk [~scott@descent.netsplit.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:53] <thom> Keybuk: ahah!
[12:53] <Keybuk> hmm?
[12:53] <thom> Keybuk: did you have udevd/hotplug-ng packaged?
=== motaboy [~motaboy@host91-36.pool80182.interbusiness.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:54] <Keybuk> no, but Md has doesn't he?
[12:54] <thom> dunno, was just about to ask him when you showed up ;P
[01:00] <mvirkkil> is dotUbuntu going to be some sort of central registeration/online identity creation system for Ubuntu users?
[01:01] <mvirkkil> Never mind. Found the spec.
[01:02] <thom> mvirkkil: don't bet on it staying as dotUbuntu; that name's just a place holder
=== JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:03] <mvirkkil> thom: Yeah. I was just interested in what it was, since I've been playing around with something similar.
[01:03] <thom> mvirkkil: nod
[01:03] <mvirkkil> thom: Adding "online-identity" in to about-me
[01:03] <thom> mvirkkil: oh really? awesome
[01:03] <mvirkkil> thom: Which would be a 'canonical' registration point, for a jabber id/voip/bugzilla/malone/forum.
[01:04] <mvirkkil> thom: Oh, that should read, playing around with a similar _idea_
[01:04] <mvirkkil> thom: No coe.
[01:04] <mvirkkil> thom: No code.
[01:04] <thom> mvirkkil: awww, you had me hopefull then ;-)
[01:05] <mvirkkil> thom: I'm rather exited about bringing jabber in to the communication mix. 
[01:05] <thom> mvirkkil: definitely
[01:05] <mvirkkil> thom: Since it's an IM (which people love) and a file transfer system (which people love). It's easy to build bots (which I like), and you can use it for irc (which is less scary, and where devs are at).
[01:06] <mvirkkil> mvirkkil: I've built a bugme-bot, which will ask questions to write a bugreport for you and submit it.
[01:07] <mvirkkil> thom: --^
[01:07] <mvirkkil> thom: Thogh unfortunately, it's for our internal bugreport system, which is a custom job.
[01:08] <mvirkkil> thom: But it was a fun hack :-)
[01:08] <thom> mvirkkil: cute!
[01:08] <mvirkkil> thom: Writing bots with xmpppy is trivial and fun :P
[01:11] <daniels> win 31
[01:11] <daniels> er
=== spacey [~spacey@145.33.144.157]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:26] <mvirkkil> Are the python bindings for capplets in ubuntu?
[01:27] <pitti> ogra: hmm, apt-get install beagle, "$ best" -> "/usr/bin/best: line 24: exec: mono: not found"
[01:27] <pitti> ogra: that sounds like a missing mono dependency
[01:27] <pitti> ogra: (same for f-spot)
[01:33] <jordi> is anyone familiar with Ubuntu on the PowerPC?
[01:33] <koke> jordi: depends on what do you mean by "familiar" :)
[01:34] <jordi> I'm surprised, I'm trying to boot a Dual G5 with Debian, failed with d-i rc3. Now I downloaded the Ubuntu hoary livecd, and it fails as well...
[01:34] <jordi> it's probably http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=287030
[01:34] <jordi> it's a kernel bug, apparently, and I assumed hoary would solve it
[01:34] <fabbione> jordi: we need ppc64 kernels
[01:35] <jordi> fabbione: what's the workaround?
[01:35] <fabbione> jordi: none.. we need ppc64 kernels
[01:35] <jordi> I assume the power3 or power4 kernels don't help at all
[01:35] <jordi> fabbione: great
[01:36] <Kamion> jordi: you're not booting with power4?
[01:36] <Kamion> jordi: G5 systems will not work with the powerpc kernel, in either Debian or Ubuntu, at all
[01:36] <jordi> Kamion: so power4 should work?
[01:36] <fabbione> jordi: didn't you try all kernels?
=== boglot [chaas@gw.workaround.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:36] <jordi> Kamion: people had been telling me g5 should work with the ppc kernel
[01:36] <Kamion> jordi: they were wrong
[01:36] <jordi> I think so
[01:36] <jordi> I'll try again
[01:37] <Kamion> jordi: powerpc stands no chance of working; power4 may work
[01:37] <jordi> nod
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[01:49] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[01:50] <trulux> hey pitti 
[01:50] <trulux> pitti: I have some sweet for you today... finished the framework for our kernels
[01:50] <trulux> pretty simplistic, cabale of being enabled/disabled at both boot time and runtime
[01:50] <pitti> neat
[01:50] <trulux> among the enable/disable sysctl interface for each feature
[01:51] <trulux> also I've been porting Manoj's patch for dpkg (selinux support) to our Ubuntu'ized dpkg
[01:51] <pitti> for breezy?
[01:51] <trulux> among taking a look over the packages and rebuilding
[01:51] <trulux> yep
[01:55] <trulux> pitti: could you do some testing? I lack of infrastructure and time
[01:56] <pitti> trulux: I apt-get dist-upgraded, but no dpkg from your site
[01:56] <trulux> pitti: also, could you review the spec. I'm going to send you?
[01:56] <pitti> trulux: I can build a kernel with your patches soon (or maybe somebody from the kernel team wants to...)
[01:56] <pitti> sure
[01:56] <trulux> pitti: I said here that pearls.tuxedo-es.org is a mirror, and the machine whicb rsync's it is *out of business*
[01:57] <trulux> hard disk error
[01:57] <pitti> uh, I didn't read that
[01:57] <trulux> fscked up hard, lost MySQL DB backup
[01:57] <pitti> darn
[01:57] <trulux> only patches and the other stuff remains there but there are no db backups
[01:57] <trulux> that is, my SELinux on Ubuntu HOWTO is lost
[01:57] <trulux> and all the rest of doc
[01:57] <trulux> of the wiki
[01:57] <pitti> trulux: it's not in the Ubuntu wiki somewhere?
[01:58] <trulux> (including the Hardened Gentoo wiki I was moving for proposal)
[01:58] <trulux> pitti: nope, I wrote it on my own wiki due to wikimedia formatting and also 'cos it has wikitex
[01:58] <trulux> I can add gnuplot, etc to it, so, it's mor handy
[01:59] <trulux> pitti: I will send you an email right now (with the patch for dpkg and the one for the kernel)
[01:59] <trulux> pitti: PID randomization also to be included
[01:59] <trulux> but testing now is a good idea
[01:59] <pitti> yeah, I agree
[01:59] <trulux> one sec
[01:59] <pitti> trulux: I can test the dpkg stuff a bit, but Keybuk should review it
[01:59] <trulux> OK, no worries
[02:00] <Keybuk> which patch is it?
[02:00] <trulux> it's just that I've got the devel box back again with a 19" TFT
[02:00] <Keybuk> Russell Coker's or Manoj's?
[02:00] <pitti> trulux: I would appreciate if Keybuk could review and upload the patch
[02:00] <trulux> Keybuk: none of them
[02:00] <trulux> Keybuk: based on Manoj's
[02:00] <Keybuk> "based on" ?  what's wrong with Manoj's?
[02:00] <trulux> Keybuk: dcc there?
=== trulux has no rsync or pearls wisdom right now
[02:01] <trulux> Keybuk: won't apply to Breezy's dpkg
[02:01] <Keybuk> oh, right, it's based on 1.13
[02:01] <trulux> ;)
[02:01] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[02:01] <Keybuk> we've talked vaguely about putting 1.13 in breezy anyway
[02:01] <trulux> lemme dig in my Breezy chroot....
[02:01] <Kamion> aren't we getting 1.13 in breezy anyway?
[02:02] <trulux> until 1.13 gets inside Breezy, then we can use "mine"
[02:02] <jdub> fabbione: woo :)
[02:02] <pitti> Keybuk: what holds back 1.13 for Breezy right now? dpkg sounds like "early breakage"
[02:02] <Keybuk> I expect we'll put 1.13 in during the C++ transition, as it actually compiles with 4.0 and 1.10 doesn't :p
[02:02] <pitti> ah, cool
[02:02] <Keybuk> nothing's holding it back, just nobody's done it yet
[02:03] <pitti> ah, ok, no showstoppers then
[02:03] <Keybuk> it'll probably break a dozen or so builds
[02:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: you aren't in the Ubuntu upload keyring, are you?
[02:03] <trulux> Keybuk: then we hold dpkg SELinux support until 1.13 hits Breezy
[02:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I am
[02:03] <trulux> we will gain momentun instead of lacking time
[02:03] <Kamion> oh, ok
[02:04] <trulux> now we must focuse on the rest of packages which are more easy to deploy
[02:04] <trulux> pitti: need to build cron with WITH_SELINUX=1
[02:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: is the Replaces fix in 1.13? I guess it'd just be a sync then, anyway
[02:05] <pitti> trulux: are there more packages missing? I already have your packages from your site
[02:05] <Keybuk> yeah it is
[02:05] <trulux> pitti: I said I can't upload nothing
=== tritium [~tritium@12-202-89-11.client.insightBB.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:05] <trulux> you won't get the new packages from there
[02:05] <Keybuk> can we sync from experimental?
[02:05] <pitti> trulux: yes, but I'm interested which other packages are missing
[02:05] <elmo> Keybuk: yes
[02:05] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, we can
[02:05] <Keybuk> elmo: pleased to be syncing dpkg from experimental
[02:05] <trulux> pitti: ok: sysvinit, openssh, libpam (easy to fix now), logrotate, cron, dpkg (on hold?)
[02:05] <trulux> pitti: coreutils
[02:06] <pitti> trulux: okay, and I already have most of them
[02:06] <pitti> trulux: (for the sake of testing). No problems so far
[02:07] <mvirkkil> Are the python bindings for creating capplets in ubuntu?
[02:07] <elmo> Keybuk: done
[02:07] <daniels> elmo: did you get my syncs from the other day?
[02:08] <trulux> pitti: I need a good python+GTK/Gnome hacker for the usability/user-side stuff
[02:09] <Keybuk> trulux: there's a bunch of outstanding "neatness" changes to Manoj's patch, otherwise it looks clean, so will most likely be merged upstream soon
=== pitti points to mvo, ogra, jamesh, and seb128 
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:09] <pitti> Hi mvo
[02:09] <mvo> hey pitti 
[02:09] <ogra> heh, speaking of the devil
[02:10] <fabbione> hey elmo
[02:10] <mvo> ogra: so you where speaking about me? :)
[02:11] <mvirkkil> mvo: Hi. How's the pyapt stuff coming along?
[02:11] <mvo> mvirkkil: have you checked the michael.vogt@ubuntu.com--2005/python-apt--mvo--0 branch ?
[02:12] <ogra> mvo, nope, pitti was
[02:12] <ogra> :)
[02:12] <pitti> mvo:<trulux> pitti: I need a good python+GTK/Gnome hacker for the usability/user-side stuff
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: * pitti points to mvo, ogra, jamesh, and seb128 
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: :-)
[02:12] <elmo>  [dpkg-source output:]  dpkg-source: error: file libidl_0.8.5.orig.tar.gz has size 456545 instead of expected 454225 
[02:13] <elmo> seb128: ^---
[02:13] <elmo> fabbione: hi
[02:13] <mvo> pitti: aha :)
[02:13] <elmo> daniels: going through backlog now
[02:13] <seb128> elmo: hum, thanks
[02:13] <trulux> pitti: just for a little while (did some cleanups to the patch, then I'll send you), lunch time
[02:13] <fabbione> elmo: we missed you yesterday :)
[02:13] <trulux> pitti: ;)
[02:13] <daniels> elmo: thanks dude
[02:13] <elmo> fabbione: yes, sorry about that :(
[02:14] <fabbione> elmo: dude.. no problem.. i still love you a lot :)
[02:14] <fabbione> today is even better... wife -> out
[02:16] <elmo>  [dpkg-source output:]  dpkg-source: error: file monotone_0.19.orig.tar.gz has size 4796148 instead of expected 4796447 
[02:16] <elmo> seb128: ^---
[02:16] <mvirkkil> mvo: not in a long while. I halted all work on gnome-app-install since it seemed the whole idea would get revamped (and no one seemed interested in my patches).
[02:17] <mvirkkil> mvo: Been toying around with a bootsplash thingie instead :P
[02:17] <mvo> mvirkkil: yeah, someone needs to find time to look at your patches again, a lot looked pretty good :) but working on usplah is nice too
[02:17] <seb128> elmo: :(
[02:18] <seb128> elmo: these are conflict now, or just not imported stuffs?
[02:18] <mvirkkil> mvo: Well, I never even sent the cleanup patch anywhere. I split everything up in to different classes, and tried to make a more logical structure. 
[02:19] <elmo> seb128: stuff that can't be synced because we haven't a different orig.tar.gz to Debian
[02:19] <seb128> elmo: right, but IIRC we have renamed some orig tarball due on such broken imports... no?
[02:20] <trulux> back
[02:20] <seb128> elmo: ie: is there any archive b0rkage due to that, or I just have to sync whatever way I want (ie: wait on next upstream is fine)?
[02:20] <mvirkkil> mvo: But I realized that most of the stuff will get scrapped because of the new features.
[02:20] <elmo> seb128: the archive scripts really can't cope with that kind of messing with the orig.tar.gz
[02:20] <elmo> and mirrors are great fans of it either
[02:20] <trulux> fabbione: potatoes "a la parmentier", do you know it?
[02:20] <elmo> s/are/aren't/
[02:21] <fabbione> trulux: no
[02:21] <trulux> fabbione: aren't you Italian?
[02:21] <seb128> elmo: ok
[02:21] <fabbione> trulux: yes, but it tells me nothing
[02:21] <fabbione> that sounds french to me
[02:22] <seb128> that's french
[02:22] <mvo> mvirkkil: there is a spec for cool new stuff, we'll have to see how much we can manage (have you looked at the udu.wiki.ubuntu.com page yet?)
[02:22] <trulux> fabbione: hmm, sorry. I have NFC on French
[02:22] <trulux> seb128: yep
=== trulux checked the box
=== bradb [~bradb@MTL-ppp-146985.qc.sympatico.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:23] <mvirkkil> mvo: Yes. Looks like cool stuff is coming with breezy :-)
=== henriquemaia [~henriquem@cb-217-129-175-184.netvisao.pt]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:25] <mvirkkil> mvo: Though I _really_ hope aptitudes capabilities of tracking why a package was installed (was it a dep or not), would get integrated in to dpkg or libapt or whatever.
[02:25] <mvo> mvirkkil: a patch is there, it needs review :)
[02:25] <mvirkkil> mvo: Currently I use aptitude for that reason, and will not use any other.
[02:26] <mvirkkil> mvo: Wow. Awsome.
[02:26] <mvirkkil> mvo: Are there patches for synaptic and aptitude to use that?
=== motaboy [~motaboy@host91-36.pool80182.interbusiness.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:28] <mvo> mvirkkil: not yet. we need to talk to daniel (aptitude upstream) if he would accept such patches. and synaptic shouldn't be too hard to integrate
[02:28] <mvo> mvirkkil: I was toying with the idea to integrate the patch into synaptic first to see how well it works in the wild
[02:29] <mvirkkil> mvo: Good. That's really a an important feature, and will make users feel less afraid of trying out software, since they won't need to be afraid of 'bloating' their system.
[02:29] <mvo> mvirkkil: yes
[02:30] <JaneW> mvo: ping
[02:31] <JaneW> mvo: sorry to be a nag, but please update your Breezy Goals on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[02:31] <JaneW> they need statuses set and affcts kernel Y/N
[02:33] <mvo> JaneW: will do, sorry for not doing it earlier
[02:36] <JaneW> mvo: it's ok ;)
[02:39] <maswan> Hm.. Speaking of breezy goals, is there a paying-customer path of influencing/adding goals?
[02:40] <jdub> maswan: please email me
[02:41] <maswan> jdub or jeff@u.c? or perkypants?
[02:41] <jdub> maswan: jeff.waugh@canonical.com
[02:42] <jdub> i only wear perkypants in my free time ;)
[02:42] <maswan> Ah, ok.
=== maswan sends mail frmo @work
[02:42] <maswan> Nothing clear, just a bit of an inquiry and so.
[02:42] <jdub> sure
[02:43] <maswan> the background is that we @work want to see AFS, but do not have manpower. A bit of a support contract and stuff might be doable though. I'll be clearer in mail. :)
=== maswan moves off to write stuff
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[02:49] <koke> ogra: have you seen this http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2005-May/msg00075.html ??
[02:49] <koke> for the GraphicalConfigTools one?
[02:50] <koke> jdub: IIRC, you manage the mailing lists??
[02:51] <ogra> koke, yay, great
[02:52] <Kamion> elmo: thanks for the syncs
[02:53] <jdub> koke: yo
[02:53] <Kamion> "grep: /etc/crontab: No such file or directory"
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[02:53] <Kamion> I seem to get that during standard+desktop preconfiguration on every install
[02:53] <koke> ok, I'll ask you for one maybe this week
[02:53] <koke> jdub: BTW, my head is not showing at planet ubuntu
[02:54] <Kamion> it's really tempting to divert fc-cache during the install in the same way we divert scrollkeeper-update, especially now that ttf-indic-fonts has been split up into a million tiny pieces that all call fc-cache in their postinsts
[02:54] <jdub> koke: yeah, haven't figured some of those out yet
[02:54] <jdub> Kamion: yes! :)
[02:58] <thom> PHWOAR
[02:58] <thom> hotpluggable dbus magic
[02:59] <Lathiat> humm?
[03:01] <Kamion> jdub: of course triggers would solve the same problem a lot more elegantly ...
=== koke has to go
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=== lu|away is now known as lu|bbiab
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released!  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-April/000023.html | MOM is awake! | Colony CD 1 released
[03:24] <daniels> Kamion: nice work
[03:24] <thom> Kamion: rocking
[03:24] <daniels> Kamion: (he says, preparing to upload the packages that will doubtless monumentally fuck the archive)
[03:25] <trulux> daniels: hey
[03:25] <daniels> trulux: yo
[03:25] <jdub> Kamion: yayayayayay!
[03:26] <trulux> daniels: could you send me the details on how you got the psc scanner working, please?
[03:27] <daniels> trulux: um ... 1) install hpoj, 2) sudo invoke-rc.d hpoj setup, 3) start xsane
[03:27] <daniels> apparently hplip works with no configuration
[03:27] <daniels> but I haven't tested that, been too busy
[03:27] <jdub> Kamion: got an announcement for it?
[03:27] <Kamion> jdub: already gone out
[03:27] <Kamion> (before I changed the topic :-))
[03:28] <jdub> Kamion: heh, rad :)
[03:28] <jdub> Kamion: lwn, here we come :-)
[03:28] <zul> anyone got a dm9102 card for some testing?
[03:28] <trulux> daniels: I will try hplip, do you have good news on it? anyone has it working (both scanner plus printer)?
[03:29] <daniels> trulux: i've only heard vaguely that it apparently works
[03:29] <Kamion> pitti: USN-127-1> "indefinitively" => "indefinitely"
[03:30] <trulux> dand: strange:
[03:30] <pitti> uh, thanks Kamion (I guess I will ask for review next time)
[03:30] <trulux> err
[03:30] <trulux> daniels: got this:
[03:30] <trulux> Probing "/dev/usb/lp0"...
[03:30] <trulux>     *** Found "psc 1310 series " but failed to communicate with it!
[03:30] <trulux> arrrgh
[03:30] <trulux> shit
[03:31] <trulux> daniels: http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:dhSkonGrkBoJ:www.belgeler.linux-sevenler.org/pdf.php%3Fcat%3D70%26id%3D412%26lang%3Den+PSC+1315+scanner+linux&hl=es&client=firefox
[03:32] <daniels> i see
[03:33] <jdub> Kamion: ha ha ha, good quote :)
[03:36] <Kamion> maybe this release I'll actually keep coming up with quotes rather than giving up after CD 1. :-)
[03:36] <trulux> daniels: really, I'm not getting the scanner working with this
[03:37] <trulux> daniels: could you check further what you have there?
[03:37] <trulux> it's important to to make Ubuntu supporting this devices
[03:37] <daniels> trulux: all I know is what works for my 1210; right now I'm way too busy (it's 2337 and I'm looking at hours of work yet) to look into it further, sorry
[03:38] <trulux> daniels: OK, any wiki page where I can write up on it?
[03:40] <daniels> not sure ... maybe printingroadmap
=== chmj [~d3vic3@dumbledore.hbd.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:41] <trulux> daniels: OK, brb, reboot
[03:41] <trulux> daniels: thanks though
=== Kamion makes slightly controversial seed change
[03:42] <Kamion> (although it only preserves the status quo, for now :-))
=== g14_ [~g14@c-67-171-59-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:44] <JaneW> mjg59: ping
[03:47] <Kamion> there's a live CD on cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ now
[03:47] <Kamion> (for breezy)
=== surak [~kurumin@201009105135.user.veloxzone.com.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:48] <Kamion> who knows whether it will work? :-)
=== Lathiat gets a copy 
[03:49] <Kamion> surak: 14:47 < Kamion> there's a live CD on cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ now
[03:49] <Kamion> 14:47 < Kamion> (for breezy)
[03:49] <Kamion> surak: you guys might want to try that out
[03:50] <surak> Thanks, already getting it
[03:54] <lu|bbiab> ooh
=== lu|bbiab gets too
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[03:59] <JaneW> mjg59: ping
[03:59] <Nafallo> morning
[04:00] <JaneW> lo
[04:00] <JaneW> does anyone know if anything is happening with edubuntu? I have had no responses from the guys yet...
=== Ferry [~ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:04] <surak> Kamion: i see something odd here. The announcement says: " This release includes only the Install CD, as we haven't started to build the Live CD yet.  "
[04:04] <surak> This link is for live cd. should it be announced also?
[04:04] <mjg59> JaneW: Hi
[04:05] <Nafallo> surak: nope, it's for installcd
[04:07] <surak> Nafallo: there are two pages... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/
[04:07] <JaneW> mjg59: hi, Juan says he is not on PowerSavingMode anymore. Can you take it, or are you overloaded already?
[04:08] <Kamion> surak: Colony CD 1 is for neither of those URLs, it is for /releases/breezy/colony-1/
[04:08] <daniels> surak: daily-live might not even work
[04:08] <Kamion> surak: daily* are automatic, generally un-QAed, and unreleased
[04:08] <Nafallo> surak: we're not talking about the same mail then ;-)
[04:09] <mjg59> JaneW: Hmm. I probably don't really have time, I'm afraid
[04:09] <Kamion> surak: I didn't release daily-live/ because I didn't build it until after I released Colony CD 1. :-) I'll release a live CD with Colony CD 2.
[04:09] <Kamion> (and by the time I did that release, I was really *really* bored of testing CD images)
[04:09] <lu|bbiab> hehe
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[04:10] <JaneW> mjg59: hrrrm, we may need to leave it off
[04:11] <Kamion> JaneW: PowerSavingMode is not exactly crucial, I don't think
[04:11] <Nafallo> LowPrio :-)
[04:12] <daniels> agreed, low priority
[04:13] <surak> :-)
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[04:15] <JaneW> Kamion: can I strike it from the list? - no I'll move it to Low ok?
[04:15] <JaneW> ok done
[04:17] <JaneW> bye
[04:17] <JaneW> see you all at tech-board later
=== JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
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[04:26] <jdub> oh
[04:26] <jdub> good
[04:26] <jdub> god
[04:26] <maswan> yes?
=== jdub kicks mozilla.org
[04:26] <jdub> you can't get to the update/extensions stuff if you're running an older version of mozilla
[04:26] <jdub> er, firefox
[04:26] <maswan> you've discovered the no-extensions-unless-you-say-1.0.4 or later?
[04:27] <jdub> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/upgrade/
[04:27] <jdub> yeah
[04:27] <maswan> yes.
[04:27] <jdub> HUUUUULK SMAAAAASH!
[04:27] <whiprush> you have to manually set a version in about:config to 1.0.4
[04:27] <maswan> "the 1.0.x series is just bug and secuirty fixes anyway"
[04:27] <jdub> dude. what? no way. that is total crackrock insanity.
[04:28] <Lathiat> whiprush: yeh thats pretty crack
[04:28] <Lathiat> maswan: heh
=== jdub smacks head
[04:28] <Lathiat> just run breezy and get the new 1.0.4 package. :)
[04:28] <Lathiat> hrm it mus thave FTBFS orsomething
[04:28] <jdub> neh, doesn't work
[04:29] <jdub> i am offended
[04:29] <jdub> and hurt
[04:29] <maswan> "RedHat and Fedora did it right. :)  I just pulled 1.0.4 on Fedora this morning."
=== bluefoxicy [~bluefox@pcp0012067827pcs.whtmrs01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:29] <bluefoxicy>  * Starting Hardware abstraction layer:
[04:29] <bluefoxicy> /usr/sbin/hald: unrecognized option `--drop-privileges'
[04:30] <Kamion> Lathiat: try 'firefox', not 'mozilla-firefox'
[04:30] <Kamion> (still in universe as yet)
[04:30] <Kamion>    firefox | 1.0.4-1ubuntu2 | breezy/universe | source
[04:30] <Kamion> oh, no, you're right, it didn't build
[04:30] <Lathiat> no such package apparently
[04:30] <Lathiat> yeh
[04:30] <bluefoxicy> what?  Ubuntu is moving from mozilla-* to *?
[04:30] <maswan> (quote from the mozilla guy I pestered about that)
[04:31] <jdub> maswan: because new versions never have new security holes!
[04:31] <Kamion> hmm, that's odd, it did build but apparently didn't get uploaded or something?
[04:31] <g14> Will prelinking be turned on by default in breezy?
[04:31] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: trademark requirements from the mozilla foundation
[04:32] <elmo> it's new
[04:32] <Lathiat> Kamion: new package name needs manual accpetance or something?
[04:32] <Kamion> see the changelog
[04:32] <jdub> g14: no, it's undesireable
[04:32] <Kamion> elmo: it's not in queue/new
[04:32] <g14> jdub: Why? It improves performance
[04:32] <Kamion> g14: it disimproves maintainability
[04:32] <maswan> jdub: yes. but the conclusion is that a security fix should bump the vendorVersion or whatever to the latest mozilla.org release. or something.
[04:32] <jdub> g14: not always, and not nicely
[04:32] <elmo> Kamion: that's because I just processed it
[04:33] <Kamion> elmo: oh :-)
[04:33] <jdub> elmo: sneaky yay!
[04:33] <g14> jdub: Well your not even going to include prelinking for bloatware like OO.o? It even ships with "ooprelink1.9"
=== doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-063-208.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:33] <g14> Fedora has a semi-intelligent cron script for prelinking some stuff
[04:34] <g14> I was just curious why it isn't in ubuntu
[04:34] <Kamion> we looked at it and decided against it
[04:34] <Lathiat> just becuase fedora has it doesnt mean its the right thing to do
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[04:34] <jdub> g14: it rated very high on the baby-jesus-o-meter
[04:34] <g14> Lathiat: I completely agree, I don't know much about how it works and was just asking.
[04:35] <Lathiat> g14: righto.
[04:35] <g14> And how does it make maintainability worse?
[04:35] <Kamion> binaries aren't what the .debs shipped any more
[04:35] <Kamion> sucks for various reasons
[04:36] <Kamion> debuggability, reproducibility of problems, etc.
[04:36] <g14> That makes sense
[04:37] <g14> I am afraid to update to breezy yet on this machine to test, but does anyone know soundservers very well?
[04:37] <g14> I know breezy is switching from esd to polypaudio and was wondering if it will have the same problem esd does
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[04:37] <jdub> RHEL 2.1 was upgraded to mozilla 1.7
[04:37] <Lathiat> g14: Youd have to be specific about the problems to get an answer to that...
[04:37] <jdub> that is INSANE
[04:38] <jdub> g14: *might* switch, *might*
[04:38] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  ah, good.
[04:38] <maswan> jdub: anyway, the mozilla.org stand on that is that distributions should bump general.useragent.vendorSub for firefox to 1.0.4 if the distribution fixes the security problems that 1.0.4 was released for.
[04:38] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  I prefer 'firefox' and 'thunderbird' to mozilla-*
[04:38] <jdub> maswan: which no one can sanely do anyway ;)
[04:38] <bluefoxicy> remember they're sub-projects hosted by mozilla but developed as independent
[04:38] <bluefoxicy> they're not mozilla :p
[04:40] <surak> g14: prelink loves to suck all baterry juice in fedora... several people are not fond of it @ fedora-devel...
[04:40] <Kamion> interesting how http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html talks about "Mozilla Firefox" then
[04:40] <maswan> jdub: well, the mozilla guys have some odd ideas. like the requirement for a top-level mirror to sync every 10 minutes.
[04:40] <g14> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=175681 I started this thread
[04:40] <surak> g14: (talking about notebooks)
[04:40] <jdub> maswan: ...!
[04:40] <maswan> jdub: exactly.
[04:40] <jdub> maswan: makes baby elmo cry :)
[04:41] <g14> If you use gdmflexiserver to start new user sessions, there are issues with esd accepting sound events from other users
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[04:41] <bluefoxicy>  # linux happens.  Blah
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> # alert ip $EXTERNAL_NET any -> $HOME_NET any (msg:"BAD-TRAFFIC bad frag bits"; fragbits:MD; classtype:misc-activity; sid:1322; rev:7;)
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> bad-traffic.rules, from snort o_O
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[04:41] <surak> g14: are there issues with what? Mostly are permissions, ain't it?
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> ok, I need to know
[04:41] <g14> surak: Not permissions at all
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> what the hell determines where synaptic puts a confirmation window to replace a config file?
[04:42] <maswan> jdub: indeed. we just about manage to keep up with that, normally a sync takes 2-4 minutes.
[04:42] <ogra> surak, if esd runs already its owned by the former user
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> some times they pop up left aligned with the synaptic window, you click yes, the next is aligned like 150 pixels farther right
[04:42] <trulux> pitti: ping
[04:42] <pitti> trulux: pong
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> and they alternate between those two positions, somewhat
[04:42] <trulux> pitti: did you like the patch?
[04:42] <g14> surak: esd is started by the primary user who logs in via gdm. When gdmflexiserver starts a new session, esd is already started as the first user. Adding the fix in my post will allow it to proxy sound
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> it's kinda random.
[04:42] <trulux> ;)
[04:43] <pitti> trulux: sorry, still swamped in security updates *sigh*
[04:43] <ogra> doko, -dbg packages are renamed accordingly to the binarys ? 
[04:43] <pitti> trulux: I'll take a look at it now, squid hates me anyway (will continue tomorrow)
[04:43] <g14> surak: But thats not an optimal solution. I was wondering if polypaudio will fix this
[04:43] <doko> ogra: they don't have to
[04:43] <trulux> pitti: ok
[04:43] <ogra> doko, thanks
[04:44] <bluefoxicy> g14:  why isn't esd a system service
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[04:44] <g14> bluefoxicy: I'm not saying it should be a system service, that could have security issues. I was just wondering if polypaudio will proxy sound events from different users better
[04:45] <g14> bluefoxicy: If not, maybe I could look into figuring out how it could
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> g14:  it should be a system service that drops caps and becomes user 'esd'
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> g14:  if it's owned by, say, me
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> and someone exploits it
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> they have access to my account
[04:45] <bluefoxicy> On a multi-user machine, esd is started by the first user logging in?  That means you have a hit-or-miss at hijacking a random user's account if you have a way to hijack esd, yes?
[04:46] <g14> bluefoxicy: Yes, you bring up a really good point that would solve the problems
[04:47] <bluefoxicy> g14:  ask pitti or trulux though, or tseng, 'cause i'm not really much of a security expert more than someone in his parents' attic with a turring logic engine for a brain  ;>
[04:47] <pitti> trulux: btw, SELinux is built into the kernel since hoary times (just enable at the kernel command line)
[04:47] <g14> bluefoxicy: Thanks for the ideas, that will make breezy "that much better"
[04:47] <pitti> trulux: (reading your spec)
[04:47] <g14> But I've got to run out for a bit
[04:48] <bluefoxicy> g14:  I'm also interested in polypaudio, when it's ready to properly support esd
[04:48] <trulux> pitti: I know
[04:48] <bluefoxicy> last time ubuntu went that way though shit broke :)
[04:48] <bluefoxicy> aight bye then
[04:52] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, will breezy be able to install and run from firewire?
=== zyga just saw ps3 promo videos
[04:54] <zyga> fantastic hardly describes it
[04:54] <pitti> trulux: read your patch, looks really nice
[04:55] <pitti> trulux: I'll try to apply it against our 2.6.12 kernel
[04:55] <trulux> pitti: great, bbl, class
[04:55] <pitti> trulux: upstream inclusion would be nice 
[04:55] <pitti> trulux: but it's unintrusive enough to be applied anyway, I think
[04:55] <trulux> pitti: vsec upstream inclusion even more
[04:55] <trulux> yeah
[04:55] <pitti> trulux: yeah, see you later
[04:55] <trulux> pitti: ok, must go to class
[04:56] <trulux> pitti: I hope to catch you around 6:00pm
=== trulux away
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:daniels] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released! | MOM is awake! | Colony CD 1 released | gcc4 transition starting, breezy probably well broken
[05:03] <Lathiat> note to self: dont upgrade
[05:03] <Nafallo> Lathiat: hehehe
[05:03] <daniels> we're also starting the /usr/X11R6 -> /usr transition with some, um, interesting hacks
[05:04] <Lathiat> i thought we were trying to get rid of the hacks. :)
[05:04] <daniels> this one is just to placate the buildds
[05:04] <daniels> xorg-common -10's postinst checks if /usr/{include,lib}/X11 are symlinks and bombs if so
[05:04] <daniels> x-common's postinst removes those if they're symlinks and makes directories of them
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[05:04] <daniels> xorg -11 removes the bit of xorg-common's postinst that does that check and bombs
[05:05] <daniels> but xorg -11 also build-depends on a couple of things which pre-depend on x-common
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[05:05] <daniels> so x-common's postinst runs, usually before xorg-common's, so you can't fulfill the build-deps
[05:06] <daniels> so x-common now pre-depends on xorg-common
[05:11] <mako> schweeb: hey dude
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[05:19] <Lathiat> daniels: heh
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[05:24] <lu|bbiab> Kamion: FWIW, the new liveCD seems to work fine so far
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[05:31] <Nafallo> Kamion: ping
[05:31] <Kamion> lu|bbiab: miracles sometimes happen. :)
[05:31] <Kamion> Nafallo: yes?
[05:31] <Nafallo> Kamion: shouldn't cdimage.u.c/daily/jigit/ be updated?
[05:31] <lu|bbiab> indeed :)
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[05:36] <Kamion> Nafallo: good point - done, thanks
[05:37] <Nafallo> Kamion: glad you helped me. I'm about to make some nice mirrorscripts :-).
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=== Lathiat boots the livecd
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[05:49] <Lathiat> Kamion: everything works great, not sure if we want the update notifier running on the livecd tho? especially since it already thinks there are updates to OO.o on boot. :)
[05:50] <Lathiat> for everything values of vmware anyway
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[05:55] <Lathiat> Kamion: hmm, seems to be using hoary packages ? 
[05:56] <Kamion> Lathiat: update-notifier> *shrug*, it's in desktop, so it's on both. it's fine and sometimes useful to upgrade the live CD
[05:56] <Lathiat> sources.list is hoary and from what i can tell the packages seem to be too? base-config isnt updated at least, dunno what else to look at.
[05:57] <Kamion> that would be a lamont question
[05:57] <Kamion> lamont: ^--
[05:58] <Lathiat> is the install cd likely to be in at last some possibly working order?
[05:59] <Kamion> Lathiat: considering I just released yet, one might think so
[05:59] <Kamion> er, "released it"
=== Lathiat wonders how rsyncable against hoary-install it is
=== Lathiat tries
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[06:00] <Kamion> Lathiat: slightly, but it's not great
[06:00] <Nafallo> Kamion: you can't have jigit for dvds?
[06:02] <Kamion> Nafallo: takes far too long to generate
[06:02] <Kamion> and besides I haven't started breezy DVD builds yet
[06:02] <Nafallo> Kamion: aha, so that's the problem :-).
[06:03] <Nafallo> Kamion: well, you will sometime ;-).
=== Nafallo settles for install- and livesyncs support :-)
[06:04] <lamont> Kamion: oops
[06:05] <trulux> back
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[06:05] <trulux> pitti: heya
[06:05] <pitti> Hi trulux
[06:05] <trulux> pitti: howya?
[06:05] <pitti> trulux: I ported your patch to 2.6.12 (was easy) and started building the kernel
[06:05] <pitti> trulux: however, that will still take a while until it is ready
[06:06] <pitti> trulux: I started it on powerpc for now
[06:06] <trulux> pitti: tell me, lemme take all the kernel hacking work
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[06:06] <pitti> trulux: tell what?
[06:06] <trulux> though I'm a sucking-portability kid
[06:06] <lamont> Kamion: guess I should detect what suite I'm building the fs for, eh?
[06:06] <trulux> pitti: errors, etc
[06:06] <trulux> pitti: oops, whatever else
[06:06] <trulux> pitti: could you send me your dmesg?
[06:07] <trulux> dcc here
[06:07] <pitti> trulux: uh, they were rather trivial, just some patches that didn't apply (like KERN_SECURITY=68, that must be 69 in 2.6.12, etc.)
[06:07] <trulux> right
[06:07] <pitti> trulux: the kernel hasn't yet built
[06:07] <pitti> trulux: if it finished, I download and test the deb
[06:08] <trulux> I still work on 2.6.11., 'cos the kernel guys won't take patches for 2.6.12 if they're not bug fixes and the like
[06:08] <pitti> trulux: yeah, but we are based on 2.6.12rc4 now
[06:11] <trulux> pitti: no worries, will work over it
[06:11] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, might be a plan :)
[06:12] <pitti> seb128: here?
[06:12] <trulux> I stack the patches with akpm's utils, so, I can cross-work on a few mm and other trees ;)
[06:12] <lamont> Kamion: you need new images soon ish, or can I wait a bit to actually fix it?
[06:13] <Kamion> lamont: don't mind
[06:13] <lamont> Kamion: and yes, that means you got a hoary fs, at least recently
[06:13] <lamont> I think it might be left over from me doing the hoary-base fs images
[06:13] <Kamion> lamont: just turned the daily-live cron job off again though; let me know when you've done it and I'll turn it back on again
[06:13] <lamont> woot
[06:14] <lamont> dealing with g++ transition right now, that's next on the list
[06:14] <lamont> source fixed, etc.
[06:15] <trulux> pitti: the spec. is OK for you, right?
[06:15] <pitti> trulux: a little verbose, but nice
[06:15] <Riddell> elmo: could you let knetworkconf into hoary-updates?
[06:15] <pitti> trulux: however, it should be merged into the official wiki spec
[06:15] <pitti> trulux: since it needs to be ack'ed by mdz 
[06:15] <elmo> Riddell: no, you need kamion or mdz
[06:16] <trulux> pitti: yup, cc'ed mdz for it
[06:16] <trulux> pitti: I will try to upload it ASAP (THIS DAMN MAHCINE IS STILL BEING RESTORED)
[06:16] <Riddell> Kamion pointed me at elmo yesterday
[06:16] <trulux> -ECAPS
[06:16] <trulux> :)
[06:16] <pitti> trulux: upload the SELinux patched packages?
[06:16] <Riddell> Kamion: are you able to do it?
[06:17] <pitti> trulux: do you have them somwhere else?
[06:17] <trulux> pitti: I'm going to build them, when should we upload them? after you test the stuff?
[06:17] <trulux> pitti: nope
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[06:17] <pitti> trulux: after I tested all of them for a couple of days and mdz blesses them
[06:17] <elmo> Riddell: best way to do these things that involve multiple people, is to mail mdz (+ kamion), cc me.  then when kamion or mdz ack it, I can do it without fear of wrath and retribution
[06:17] <pitti> trulux: I'm fine with them, and it's still early in the development cycle, so unless something crucial breaks, I would be glad to upload them asap
[06:18] <elmo> Kamion: but, fwiw, you have katie supah powahs again
=== Riddell wills Kamion to use his katie super powers
[06:19] <trulux> pitti: OK, going to build coreutils and some others
[06:19] <trulux> pitti: fun();
[06:20] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, I'll have a look in a moment then
=== pitti kicks cdbs
[06:22] <pitti> jbailey: here?
[06:22] <jbailey> pitti: Yup
[06:22] <pitti> jbailey: I added a "common-post-build::" rule, but it is never called
[06:23] <pitti> jbailey: what is the right rule to add stuff to which must happen after the source gets built?
[06:23] <jbailey> pitti: Use the arch bits.  I'm just on the phone, but I can look it up after.
[06:23] <pitti> jbailey: I modify gnome.mk to automatically update the pot file for gnome packages, this will save us from modifying a bazillion gnome packages
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[06:23] <jbailey> Ah, nice. =)
[06:24] <pitti> jbailey: however, -arch wouldn't be called on arch: all packages?
[06:24] <pitti> jbailey: likewise, -indep might not be called on packages which only produce arch:any (or is it?)
[06:24] <jbailey> pitti: The buildds ignore Debian policy.  I think -arch is always called.
[06:24] <pitti> ah, neat
[06:26] <pitti> jbailey: yay, -arch works
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:doko] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released! | MOM is awake! | Colony CD 1 released | gcc4 transition starting, breezy probably well broken, uploads of C++ packages restricted
[06:27] <pitti> yay doko
[06:27] <fabbione> GO DOKO GO!
[06:27] <pitti> gimme the b0rk :-)
[06:28] <fabbione> be sure something will break down to death
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[06:28] <ogra> even if it's us afterwards :)
[06:29] <pitti> lol
=== fabbione starts to feel tired
[06:29] <fabbione> 14 hours and 30 minutes already :/
[06:29] <ogra> fabbione, for one kernel build ? 
[06:29] <doko> heh, we're rocking again in some hours ;)
[06:29] <fabbione> ogra: no, since i started this morning
[06:30] <ogra> i knoww...
[06:30] <fabbione> doko: yeah.. if X will not break
[06:30] <ogra> <--- kidding
[06:30] <doko> fabbione: does it use gcc/g++ or gcc-4.0/g++-4.0 for the build?
[06:30] <fabbione> doko: yes
[06:30] <ogra> heh
[06:30] <fabbione> gcc/g++ <-
[06:31] <fabbione> but daniels did test build with 4
[06:31] <fabbione> and i am retesting right now
[06:32] <doko> Ubuntu Installer  May 17   10/256   "gcc-defaults_1.23_source.changes ACCEPTED"
[06:32] <trulux> is there any way to remove exif information from photos?
[06:32] <fabbione> doko: where is build-essential? :)
[06:33] <doko> uploaded
[06:34] <trulux> got it
=== fabbione phears doko's power
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[06:36] <doko> ok, bbl for now, see you later :)
[06:37] <fabbione> cya later doko
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[06:42] <Kamion> Riddell: Installed 1 package set, 111 KB.
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[06:59] <jbailey> pitti: Hey - if sb's okay with that patch, feel free to upload it.
[06:59] <pitti> jbailey: okay, will do
[06:59] <jbailey> pitti: I'll work out backporting it to Debian at some point later.
[07:00] <jbailey> pitti: GIven their freeze, I probably won't touch it in Debian until after Sarge releases.
[07:00] <pitti> jbailey: oh, in any case
[07:00] <pitti> jbailey: it has the potential to make half of gnome FTBFS :-)
[07:00] <jbailey> Brekaing things doesn't scare me..
[07:01] <jbailey> Kamion coming after me for breaking the Sarge release scares me. =)
[07:01] <pitti> jbailey: well, for Sarge it should
[07:01] <pitti> jbailey: ah, right :-)
[07:01] <seb128> pitti: now here
[07:02] <pitti> seb128: you have mail
[07:02] <seb128> k
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[07:11] <seb128> pitti: you have mail from carlos on the cdbs mail :)
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[07:25] <maswan> elmo: what timeout settings do you ahve on the archive syncproxy?
[07:26] <elmo> maswan: on rsync? 7200
[07:27] <maswan> Odd, because we fail after half an hour with "rsync: read error: Connection timed out"
[07:27] <seb128> elmo: file-roller verbiste sync from experimental please
[07:27] <maswan> and that sync is with --timeout 7200
[07:27] <elmo> maswan: reproducably?
[07:27] <maswan> elmo: yeah, we've had this issue since we started mirroring mozilla with the insane updating frequency they have
[07:28] <elmo> May 17 11:42:10 syowa rsyncd[11920] : rsync error: timeout in data send/receive (code 30) at io.c(153) 
[07:28] <elmo> is that you?
[07:28] <elmo> (GMT+1)
[07:28] <elmo> seb128: verbiste?
[07:28] <elmo> oh, it's a package
[07:28] <seb128> right :)
[07:28] <elmo> [BLACKLISTED]  verbiste_0.1.9-2ubuntu2
[07:28] <maswan> probably
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[07:29] <elmo> seb128: I guess it's CXX
[07:29] <elmo> and it thinks nothing to sync for file-roller
[07:29] <maswan> Done at Tue May 17 19:01:12 MET_DST 2005
[07:29] <maswan> last was that
[07:29] <maswan> which means half an hour ago
[07:29] <elmo> eh, ignore that about file-roller
[07:29] <seb128> elmo: 2.10.3 from deb
[07:29] <seb128> k
[07:30] <elmo> file-roller done
[07:30] <seb128> the other is probably CXX right, I'll wait
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[07:30] <seb128> thanks
[07:30] <elmo> maswan: odd, I don't see anything in the logs on this side at all
[07:31] <maswan> Starting at Tue May 17 18:31:24 MET_DST 2005
[07:32] <maswan> or in relative terms, exactly one hour ago now
[07:32] <maswan> Ok, want me to start a new one and see if that one turns up somewhere?
[07:32] <elmo> err, meh, sorry, yes I do see it
[07:32] <elmo> May 17 17:31:24 syowa rsyncd[13644] : rsync on ubuntu from se@churchill.acc.umu.se (130.239.18.141) 
=== maswan nods, exactly that one
[07:33] <elmo> why on earth are the rsync's taking so long in any event?
[07:33] <maswan> I don't know, perhaps mozilla is evicting too much from the metadata cache these days. I don't know really.
[07:33] <maswan> Hm.. I can check with vfsstats and see what takes time though.
[07:34] <maswan> I might drop the mozilla mirror if it is this bad, but I hope we can get away with it. :)
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[07:40] <thom> elmo: did you see my firefox request from yesterday?
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[07:47] <pitti> seb128: I updated http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/gnome.mk, could you please take a look at it?
[07:50] <thom> huh, firefox in breezy is really crashy :/
[07:51] <Lathiat> yeh it is
[07:52] <Lathiat> i think i fixed some of it by nuking flash player
[07:52] <thom> i have no flash crap
[07:52] <Lathiat> like i said, some.
[07:53] <lamont> Kamion: you around?
=== Riddell was about to ask the same thing
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[08:02] <g14> trulux: To strip exif and comments out of images, try mogrify -strip image.png
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[08:12] <trulux> g14: thanks, worked
[08:12] <trulux> :)
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[08:35] <Kamion> lamont: yes?
[08:35] <Kamion> Riddell: yes?
[08:38] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't see knetworkconf in hoary-updates
[08:39] <HiddenWolf> nautilus should die. :P
[08:40] <elmo> Riddell: check with lamont
[08:41] <elmo> it's in hoary-updates as source
[08:41] <fabbione> elmo: i think all the buildd are stopped atm
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[08:43] <elmo> that'd do it :)
[08:43] <elmo> in any event, it's not kamions problem
[08:44] <thom> elmo: please move firefox to main and ditch mozilla-firefox like the bitch it is ;-)
[08:44] <fabbione> thom: firefox is already in main :)
[08:44] <fabbione> elmo is FAST
[08:44] <fabbione> elmo > concordia
[08:44] <thom> oh? cool cool
[08:45] <thom> it wasn't last time i checked, is all
[08:45] <elmo> fabbione: concordia's no longer the daddy battlestar
[08:45] <fabbione> elmo: uh?
[08:45] <elmo> our latest batch of machines are something like 10-15% faster than concordia
[08:45] <fabbione> which one is faster now?
[08:45] <fabbione> ah
[08:45] <thom> fabbione: you can't have them though ;-)
[08:45] <fabbione> elmo: can i get a distcc cluster with them?
[08:45] <fabbione> thom: i absolutely don't want access
[08:45] <fabbione> just a nice distcc setup would make me more than happy
[08:46] <fabbione> make -j 1024 :P
[08:46] <Amaranth> anyone object to putting a notice in the #ubuntu topic about not upgrading in breezy for awhile?
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[09:09] <maswan> elmo: Ok, now we aren't mirroring mozilla as much anymore, and now the syncs work fine
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[09:10] <elmo> maswan: boggle
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[09:12] <maswan> elmo: Metadata operations are more complex in the clustered case, and if mozilla keep evicting ubuntu files from cache and generally taking up token management resources etc..
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[09:17] <elmo> maswan: btw, is memtest86+ slow for you on your opterons?
[09:17] <maswan> elmo: some of the tests are really, really slow, yes. I think we take one or two out of the default just because they are too slow, I just don't remeber which offhand
[09:18] <elmo> ok, that's cool, as long as it's generic
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[09:19] <torkel> maswan: I think we are running all default tests and some of the extra test, but not all of them.
[09:20] <maswan> torkel: ah, that way around.
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[09:26] <dholbach> hellas
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[09:37] <lamont> Riddell: knetworkconf_0.6.1-3ubuntu3 (dist=hoary-updates)??
[09:37] <lamont> FTBFS
[09:37] <elmo> DOH
[09:37] <Kamion> 3ubuntu4 should fix that
[09:37] <lamont> even better
[09:37] <Kamion> that was the one I just accepted
[09:37] <lamont> that should just churn through then
[09:38] <elmo> lamont: it dropped back to needs-build
[09:38] <Riddell> lamont: amu uploaded an ubuntu4
[09:39] <Riddell> ah, you're ahead of me
[09:41] <trulux> fabbione: that would be great for all of us much like the OSDL distributed compiling and kernel benchmarking network
[09:41] <trulux> I really love it
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[09:57] <Zomb> hi
[09:58] <Zomb> does the Live-CD use Knoppix technology or some custom solution?
[09:59] <mjg59> Custom
[10:02] <maswan> elmo: btw, I did a check with the vfsstats thingie in gpfs, and during a normal, mostly empty, debian sync, there are about 3M lookups.
[10:02] <elmo> sweet
[10:02] <elmo> are you using --include/--exclude at all?
[10:02] <maswan> hmm. we --exclude one file, yeah, the tracefile
[10:03] <elmo> I've noticed rsync do some super retarded things with --include/--exclude, I'm not 100% sure yet tho
[10:03] <maswan> yeah, I just thought that was cpu-wise, but I'll take a look.
[10:04] <maswan> probably tomorrow during the day when it is more quiet. :)
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[10:34] <maswan> elmo: oh. right. the two-stage rsync is --exclude on Packages* & friends.
[10:35] <maswan> on the first rsycn
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[10:35] <elmo> ah, right.  hum.
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[10:36] <maswan> yeah. can't really think of a good way around that one right now
[10:37] <thom> dholbach: crashy bangy firefox?
[10:37] <dholbach> thom: yep, but nautilus was even better: it started tearing the cpu apart :-)
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[11:02] <blueyed> The torrents are up again. Thanks!
[11:05] <thom> np
[11:05] <thom> dholbach: lovely
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[11:19] <dholbach> seb128: the backtraces that had like millions of empty entries, if i left gdb for an hour :)
[11:19] <seb128> oh right
[11:19] <Kamion> that's usually a corrupted stack
[11:20] <Kamion> valgrind's a good tool to attack that with
[11:21] <dholbach> ok
[11:21] <seb128> anybody with an opinion on that?
[11:21] <seb128> gnome-menus ships a simple python menu editor now
[11:22] <seb128> I'm wondering if that's better to ship it with gnome-menus (which contains the menu definition and the translations)
[11:22] <ogra> sounds good
[11:22] <seb128> or to make a package with it?
[11:23] <ogra> how does upstream handle it ? is it in the gnome-menus tarball ?
[11:23] <seb128> yep
[11:23] <dholbach> i'd make another package
[11:23] <seb128> gnome-menus has the lib, the menus definition, the python binding and the editor
[11:23] <ogra> i'd do what upstream does
[11:23] <seb128> dholbach: an another package would mean to depends on gnome-menus
[11:24] <seb128> or to make yet another package: -common with the translations
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[11:24] <dholbach> hrm
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[11:24] <seb128> ogra: upstream never split :)
[11:24] <ogra> heh
[11:25] <seb128> I'll make a python-gmenu even if they don't :p
[11:25] <dholbach> does kde give you ONE big .tar.gz?
[11:25] <dholbach> :-)
[11:25] <seb128> k, I'll not split because the translations are not splited any case
[11:26] <ogra> seb128, what about this one ? http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2004-September/msg00268.html
[11:26] <tseng> dholbach: close :)
[11:26] <seb128> ogra: dunno what to do with that, I've fixed some build issues due to it for 2.10
[11:26] <ogra> tseng, did you grok, there'll be a extra meeting for maintainer approval next week
[11:26] <tseng> ogra: hm so where is the agenda for that?
[11:26] <seb128> the CVS has a part of the code
[11:27] <ogra> seb128, i have the task for a passwor changing tool 
[11:27] <seb128> I say a part because there is no option to build it and some sources files were not here
[11:27] <seb128> I had to grab them from bugzilla or to workaround
[11:27] <seb128> ogra: let's wait on the thread on -desktop 
[11:28] <ogra> seb128, and i may spec some bountys for GraphicalConfigTools, probably the guy could just finish it...
[11:28] <ogra> i know mdz has a certain interest in password changing functionallity
[11:28] <seb128> upstream too
[11:28] <ogra> (via gui without sudo that is)
[11:28] <seb128> let's wait what we do upstream
[11:28] <ogra> okay
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[11:40] <dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
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[11:42] <mvo> dholbach: night
[11:43] <ajmitch> hi mvo 
[11:43] <Surak> ogra: I got the chat from the middle. Are you interested in a password changing utility?
[11:43] <dholbach> *wave*
[11:44] <ogra> Surak, yes, but if gnome introduces one itself, its the preferred solution
[11:44] <Surak> right
[11:45] <Surak> only for password changing or something like windows' user accounts management?
[11:45] <Surak> only a passwd myself?
[11:45] <ogra> yep
[11:45] <seb128> and it they don't the preferred solution is to work with them to make it working upstream
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[11:45] <ogra> yep
[11:46] <Surak> right. one of our guys was doing something like that some time ago. Will let him know, maybe he can contribute
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[11:58] <ogra> amu ?