=== Riddell_ [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crimsun_ [~crimsun@crimsun.silver.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-082-082-197-172.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-082-082-212-246.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [~ogra@p5089DC51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kiko [~kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:52] hi [02:52] hey there === Robinho [~preview@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Dilago [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === camilotelles_ [~camilot@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:52] hi guys === surak [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:52] hey there [02:53] camilotelles_, meet Kamion (colin) and ogra (oliver) [02:53] Kamion, ogra: camilotelles_ manages the team [02:53] hi Kamion and ogra [02:53] hi [02:53] hi Camilo [02:53] Kamion, meet surak, robinho and dilago. [02:53] we are the team :-) [02:53] hehe hi [02:54] hi team ;) [02:54] hi [02:54] hey folks, good to have you on board. [02:54] so, have you guys all read http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress ? [02:54] there is more one. Pablo. He is not here now, he is teaching. [02:54] sure [02:54] yep [02:54] yes [02:54] i just started to make a little mockup of my GUI ideas, but since i'm not ready yet, we should discuss it without... [02:55] I don't know if you guys have much familiarity with our existing installer code. [02:55] we ain't looked at your install code yet. [02:55] if not, I suspect you'll get familiar pretty quickly. :-) [02:55] heh [02:55] but we have already modified the knoppix code for our purposes. [02:56] knoppix/kurumin. [02:56] As I could read, your live cd runs as a profile for your installation program, am I correct? [02:56] Well, the goal here is a little different, because (just as we do at the moment) we want to build both the installer and the live CD from the same codebase. [02:56] surak: right, that's a good description of it. [02:56] excelent idea. === fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [02:57] I already saw something about dloop - and using the .debs as a part of live cd's tree. What's the status? [02:57] OK, let me give you a quick run-down of the current approach. [02:58] On our build daemons, we build a compressed loop (cloop) filesystem out of standard distro packages. [02:58] That's basically "build chroot, install lots of packages into it, run create_compressed_filesystem". [02:58] We put that image as a huge file on our live CDs. [02:58] just like we do already... [02:58] right [02:59] To boot this image, we wanted to start up just the same way as the install CD does, because that way we get exactly the same hardware detection [02:59] this means we don't have to fix bugs twice (of course), and it means that the live CD becomes a much better test of whether the install CD's going to work on your hardware. [03:00] but does grub behaves as good as isolinux running from cds? [03:00] we don't use grub, because it behaved much worse. [03:00] isolinux boots on much more hardware, as it turns out [03:00] ok [03:00] We essentially run the first half of the installer, and then drop into a new installer component we wrote called 'casper' [03:01] this mounts the cloop, fiddles with it a bit to copy in parameters detected by the installer, and then pivot_roots and re-execs init. [03:01] After that it's a regular system. [03:02] Kamion, why do you re-exec init? [03:02] The challenge for a live CD installer, as we see it, is to run the *second* half of the installer, or equivalent - ideally using as much of the same code as possible. Bootloader installation especially is fiddly and has a lot of special cases related to partitioning that we want to preserve. [03:02] It's the init from the big tree, not the one used before the huge tree was mounted, isn't it? [03:02] kiko: the init running in the installer is a cut-down version; we don't want to run it permanently. Also, this lets us umount the initrd. [03:03] I see. [03:03] and it's an easy way to do normal system startup [03:04] The problem is that your second half of installation consists mostly of installing packages, instead of knoppix approach of copying the entire / fs. Am I correct? [03:04] Kamion, will we still preserve the installer version of the build? [03:05] surak: That's the current approach, but for a live CD installer we'd want to copy /. You're right that it's not exactly the same procedure. [03:05] kiko, there will be a downloadable "install only" image [03:05] kiko: yes, for server installs and other tasks that require more flexibility [03:05] kiko: we'll probably only ship the live CD in shipit, though (reduces costs) [03:06] people installing 2000 machines aren't going to want to use a live CD to do it. :-) [03:06] so the live cd installer is mainly for shipit and testing. [03:06] gotcha [03:06] for the masses :) [03:06] Kamion, as the installer code is about the same, can't it be set as isolinux parameter? [03:07] for init, I mean [03:07] surak: I don't quite understand you [03:07] me neither [03:07] You currently have two cds. One for live (which cannot be installed) and one for installation only. [03:07] surak: oh, we don't have space on a CD for both [03:08] ok [03:08] surak: we ship a combined DVD though [03:08] but like it or not, not everyone has DVD drives. :-) [03:08] it is pretty much a boot-time parameter, though [03:08] anyway [03:08] the work we'd like you guys to do divides down into a couple of pieces: [03:09] What I was thinking about was in setting a boot parameter, which could launch both the install and live. But you're correct, too much stuff, even with that dloop. [03:09] (1) coordinate with ogra to figure out what information you need his graphical frontend to spit out (e.g. partitioning, mount points, whatever) to do your work, and agree on frmats [03:09] formats === ogra would love to do the IPC dbus based between fron/backend [03:10] (2) figure out how to actually reuse the installer code that needs to be reused (it's currently in udebs, which are not very convenient for use once the live CD has booted) [03:10] (3) write any new components that need to happen (e.g. copying / to the target filesystem) [03:10] I should probably elaborate slightly on (2) [03:11] i thought udebs are usable like deb, just more stipped...? [03:11] instead of using .debs in the installer, we build reduced packages called .udebs (micro-debs). Some of them are collected together into an initrd, and some are installed at run-time by the installer's mini-packaging-system. [03:12] This is very modular, and lets us re-use bits of code from the normal distribution, like parted and e2fsprogs. [03:12] as ogra says, the package formats are more or less compatible, but there are problems: [03:12] apt doesn't know how to fetch udebs; [03:13] the dependency structure is quite different; [03:13] and the filesystem layout in the installer isn't the same as you'd find in a normal system. [03:13] Usually, rather than trying to install udebs in a normal system, you want to make the source package produce both debs and udebs of the same thing and use whichever one is appropriate. [03:14] I can generally make this happen upstream where necessary [03:14] couldn't those be already at the filesystem instead of installing it at boot time? [03:14] (like parted) [03:14] surak: yes, they could; we probably want them to be in .deb form anyway, so that they can be installed conveniently as part of the process of building the live CD, and so that it's easier for people customising the live CD to remove them if they want to. [03:15] I imagine anything you need should just be a dependency of the live CD installer package [03:16] Let me ask you something: the .debs are inside the livecd's tree? [03:16] To start with, I'd recommend putting together something that works out of the pieces that are available in whatever way you can. Then we'll have a clear target for what refactoring needs to happen. [03:16] surak: nope [03:17] they're unpacked into the live CD's tree, but the original .deb files are not available [03:17] again, space reasons [03:17] we're running pretty close to the limit on the live CDs, and now pretty much any additions require removing some language support. :-( [03:18] will the opencd content stay ? [03:18] opencd? [03:18] ogra: remains to be seen. We'd like to keep it, but possibly/probably in a reduced form [03:18] surak, if you put the livecd in a windows box, it offers win-oss sorftware to you [03:18] surak: free software built for Windows, with an autorun Windows frontend [03:18] oh, i saw it [03:19] also known as WinFOSS [03:19] thats a cool fearute but eats a lot of space [03:19] -r [03:19] Specially openoffice [03:19] yep [03:19] that's one of the areas of space flexibility, yeah [03:19] it's really good for advocacy, though, so not first on the list to cut [03:20] but we could reduce it to the essential bits (mozilla/OO.o) if needed i guess [03:20] kiko, kamion, ogra: I will have to leave know. After i will sync with my team. Good luck for us! [03:20] camilotelles_: thanks [03:20] camilotelles_, yay [03:21] So - any questions? The UbuntuExpress spec mentions a number of package names; doing 'apt-get source' on those and reading the code may be a useful starting point. [03:22] There's too much common things between ooo linux and win. There's no easy way of using it inside the live tree and as a windows installer however. Anything in work about this matter? [03:22] Kamion: I would suggest setting up a weekly phone call with surak to checkpoint on how it's going [03:22] surak: no, not at the moment [03:22] Kamion, I would also suggest giving him a concrete goal for this first set of days to make sure he starts off with something more practical than "reading the code" [03:23] kiko: That makes sense. I'm not sure whether it'll be me or mdz making the calls from here on in, though, but I can start. [03:23] timezonewise it's the same [03:23] i agree with kiko. a concrete goal is needed. [03:23] bye [03:23] OK, let me ponder for a moment :-) [03:23] do it [03:24] Kamion, ogra: at first, it would be interesting for us to reproduce your build daemon. [03:25] The first thing we need is a working prototype. Don't worry about how it looks for now; just put together something that asks for the partition on which to put /, then copies the live CD's / onto it, installs a boot loader, and reboots [03:25] surak, then you should talk to lamont, its a sbuild setup.... [03:25] ogra, or kinnison [03:25] kiko, oh, i didnt know :) [03:25] reusing the boot loader code that's there, one way or another [03:25] no, it's not quite sbuild [03:26] Kamion, thats what lamont told me [03:26] yeah, because kinnison has been working on the lp side of builds. but anyway [03:26] but talk to lamont, yes; we haven't yet made that code public, but I'm sure he can give you it for this [03:26] LaMont Jones [03:26] so we can test out stuff and broke our own builds several times a day [03:27] surak: for testing, wouldn't it be easier to boot the live CD and install stuff into it directly? [03:27] I imagine it'd be quicker, at least ... [03:27] For one-time testing, yes [03:28] But for testing with different hardware, may be not. [03:28] as in, build packages, stick them in a local apt archive, install them, remove if necessary, install again ... [03:28] ogra: possibly some confusion; the build daemon itself is sbuild, that's true, but the piece that builds the live CD compressed filesystem is not [03:28] ah, ok [03:29] so it depends which surak means (possibly both) [03:30] Obviously, you'll need to be aware that this will be targetted at i386, amd64, and powerpc at least; for the moment I'd be happy with a working prototype on i386, as long as i386-specific things are reasonably neatly separated. [03:30] How's parted working on ppc? [03:31] Works fine. Can't do LVM/RAID yet (work in progress), but apart from that no problems. [03:31] and as i said, it would be nice to just attach the GUI to dbus and get all data via the bus... [03:31] The partition table layout's rather different, though. [03:31] especially as far as booting the damn things goes [03:31] ...so this would require some dbus love in the backend, but gives the opportunity to excahange the frontend easily [03:32] Are there requirements about the gui? [03:32] make it easy [03:32] ...my MOM needs to be able to install with it [03:32] written in python, will need facility to have either gtk or qt (but concentrating on gtk at first) [03:32] i'd like to do a certain design... [03:33] we won't necessarily make ogra do the qt frontend, just design with other frontends in mind :-) [03:33] as far as possible, it should ask all questions at the start of the process [03:33] Kamion, i'll be able to abuse Riddell for that i guess ;) [03:34] www.grawert.net/express_mockup.png [03:34] its far from being anything... [03:34] heh, yeah [03:34] definetly [03:34] but in first place i want to have a icon for each step in the left pane [03:34] with a heading .... [03:35] surak: ok, can we set up a call for let's say next Tuesday, to find out how things are going? === Riddell looks scared [03:35] whoa [03:35] steps that arent run yet should be greyed out === surak too [03:35] what about using gparted? [03:35] isn't that what we discussed with mdz at udu? [03:35] steps that are running should have a little animation [03:35] kiko: the spec links to GraphicalPartitioningTool, which discusses that [03:35] kiko, yep [03:35] ah, this is for the installer. sorry. [03:36] I thought this was for the partitioning tool [03:36] but for default (automatic) partitioning we'd rather not drop into a full-blown partitioner at all [03:36] the dumbed down gparted shall be integrated in the app for the partitioning step [03:36] yes, of course. [03:36] as far as possible, it should ask all questions at the start of the process [03:36] yep [03:36] note this, very important sabdfl requirement [03:36] Will something be asked AFTER the live-cd is installed? [03:36] thats kickstart ;) [03:37] surak, we should make sure that its not necessary [03:37] like fedora's firstboot or winxp account creation? [03:37] we can do that before [03:37] surak: there's discussion of that in the spec, under OEMInstaller ... [03:37] "Base system configuration" [03:38] code will be pretty similar, but I suspect we'll want to ask it beforehand [03:38] before reboot, I mean [03:38] ok [03:38] ogra: kickstart's a fully automatic thing - definitely not about asking questions :-) [03:39] Kamion, but you only answer your questions at one point, never afterwards ;) [03:39] I don't know what's the current kickstart status - but I'm assuming we (brazil team) should not worry about it. [03:39] s/answer your questions/make your setup/ [03:40] surak, kickstart is supported by ubuntu :) [03:40] surak: nope - kickstart is a translation layer over the top of debconf preseeding. You do need to worry about not breaking debconf preseeding in regular installs. [03:40] but you'll find out about that as time goes on - no need to worry about it for a prototype. [03:40] ok [03:41] ok. I have to look at the installation code. Is glade allowed? [03:41] I'll assume there's no objection to a call next Tuesday (24th). Are you guys on IRC regularly? [03:41] surak, why not [03:41] surak: in the frontend, yes; not in installer code. [03:42] that's why there's a separation [03:42] surak, I'll assume there's no objection to a call next Tuesday (24th). Are you guys on IRC regularly? [03:42] installer backend code is shell and C only === ogra couldnt imagine a case where glade isnt used for GUI [03:42] I don't use to, but that's ok [03:42] IRC is da place to be [03:42] yeah [03:42] surak: just for a means of contact. e-mail's cool too, but higher-latency [03:43] and INBOXes are unmanageable ;) [03:44] kiko, change your client.... reading mails with telnet via pop3 is outdated ;) [03:44] yeah, and pine changed their license some years ago :-) [03:45] pop3 is hot cakes [03:45] heh [03:45] I use less /var/spool/mail/kiko [03:45] Is there a ubuntuexpress-list? [03:45] good point [03:45] Kamion, does it warrant a real list, or ubuntu-devel? [03:45] surak: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ;-) [03:45] kiko: not yet, imho [03:45] k [03:45] kiko, for 6 ppl ? [03:46] yeah yeah [03:46] ogra, stop chiding me or I'll complain about my bugday mail from you and dholbach! [03:46] :-) === ogra hides [03:46] aha, now you hide, human! === kiko kicks apache one more time [03:47] @#!@# trailing slash requirement [03:47] Kamion, I thing you are about gmt+2, is that it? === thom kicks kiko back, on behalf of apache [03:47] think [03:47] surak: London time, so GMT+1 [03:47] surak, I think england is currently gmt+1 [03:48] daylight savings (sneer. as if london had daylight.) [03:48] ha [03:48] oh sorry, I though Kamion was at swiss [03:48] btcentralplus == british telefoo [03:48] lets just use UTC...for the guys in the london darkness [03:49] okay, so may 24th, about 13:00 utc [03:50] works for me [03:51] that probably won't be the regular time, because mdz is in UTC-0700 and unlikely to be awake [03:51] so if he wants to do the call it'll have to move later; but for next week 1300 UTC is fine [03:52] ok [03:52] In the meantime, of course, feel free to contact me or ogra if you have any questions. [03:52] yep [03:53] sure. I'm living at #ubuntu-devel from now on [03:53] ... [03:53] yes, ogra knows everything, including about gay bars in sydney. [03:53] lol [03:53] kiko, how do you know that? [03:53] kiko, not more then you though :) [03:53] surak, I was there :) [03:54] So it seems that you became a coinasseur of those places also :-) [03:55] I only dab in them, ogra's the expert. [03:55] lol [03:56] Ok. Let me start to look at the code and cry out in pain. I'll be here, just in case. [03:56] you da man surak [03:57] ok, i'll do smoe more work on the mockup and want to hear some critics next meeting ;) [03:57] I want to hear some bugday-love-mail [03:57] kiko, you'll get it... [03:59] kiko, if I ain't, I'm screwed from now on ;-) [03:59] seize the moment! === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.60.116] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:44] surak, Kamion: are we agreed upon a goal for next week and a way to manage ourselves into it? [04:44] if so, this meeting is, as huggy bear would say, adjourned. [04:45] I believe the prototype I mentioned above is the goal for next week. [04:45] surak? [04:46] The first thing we need is a working prototype. Don't worry about how it looks for now; just put together something that asks for the partition on which to put /, then copies the live CD's / onto it, installs a boot loader, and reboots [04:47] okay [04:47] About the only further requirement there is that it should use existing code wherever possible. [04:47] But that'll be faster anyway :-) [04:47] granted [04:48] ok [04:49] thanks [04:50] ADJOURNED === kiko [~kiko@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["back] === Dilago [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === camilotelles [~camilot@201009114246.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Dilago [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === camilotelles [~camilot@201009114246.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Robinho_Peixoto [~Robinho@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-082-082-213-004.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Dilago [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jdthood [~jdthood@aglu.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.57.188] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Surak [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Surak [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Surak [~kurumin@201009101202.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel === Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by dholbach at Tue May 10 20:06:03 2005 === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === haggai [~halls@i-83-67-59-194.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [~ogra@p5089DEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === smurfix [~smurf@smurfix.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === daniels [~daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-131.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jdthood [jdthood@x091.decis.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [~JaneW@dumbledore.hbd.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === doko [~doko___@dsl-082-082-205-075.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boglot [chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Riddell_ [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-131.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boglot [chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tritium [~tritium@12-202-89-11.client.insightBB.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === `crimsun [~Daniel@rchp4.rochester.ibm.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [~seveas@dyn127.roaming.few.vu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === surak [~kurumin@201009105135.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === surak [~kurumin@201009105135.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === surak [~kurumin@201009105135.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-063-208.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === neuralis [~neuralis@83-131-12-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Chand [~Chand@194.51.71.190] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === surak [~kurumin@201009103039.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boglot [chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:55] Kamion: gah, missed the meeting earlier. I wrote a python tool for zero'ing unused blocks on an ext2/3 image so partimage can be dropped === astharot [~isager@host25-161.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.57.188] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ^rob^ [~rcaskey@cai17.music.uga.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === siretart [siretart@tauware.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === HiddenWolf [~hidden@136.13.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:36] sladen: uh ... which meeting did you miss? [08:36] sladen: cool, pass that to lamont === rtcm [~jman@217.129.142.72] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Capri [~makolb@H65aa.h.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === HWolf [~hidden@136.247.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tseng|work [~ccc27a01@sls-eb20p9.dca2.superb.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:08] Kamion, astharot: I can't attend today's meeting, I have a little fever and want to go to bed now [09:09] Kamion: I'd like to propose astharot to become a MOTU === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:13] get well, pitti === fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Frimost [~david@159.Red-83-44-147.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [~daniel@td9091a03.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:28] hey === MartinSchmeisser [~udssr@F7237.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk [~scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Keybuk] : Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel [09:35] sladen: coolness [09:36] 20:08 < pitti> Kamion, astharot: I can't attend today's meeting, I have a little fever and want to go to bed now [09:36] 20:09 < pitti> Kamion: I'd like to propose astharot to become a MOTU [09:36] Keybuk: ^-- for the agenda [09:37] ok, though I don't think we're going to be anywhere near Quorate, so that kind of stuff will probably get deferred === swe3tdave [~swe3tdave@toronto-HSE-ppp4001189.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:42] hey [09:44] Keybuk: oh, sabdfl isn't going to make it either? [09:44] we'll see :) [09:44] Keybuk: sadly I don't think my temporarily delegated powers from mdz include TB membership :-) [09:45] though he did ask me to show up [09:45] heh, aren't you a CC member? [09:45] yes [09:45] which would give you more powers than god :p [09:45] and lovely as you are, there's an evil glint in your eye sometimes that worries me [09:45] heh [09:46] mwahahaha, etc. [09:46] Oh, heavens, am I supposed to be here? === diamond [~erkle@194.46.73.183] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:47] mjg59, where else ? [09:47] Tidying the kitchen [09:48] technical board meeing in 12 minutes, correct? [09:49] looks like [09:49] hope so === `crimsun [~crimsun@rchp4.rochester.ibm.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:49] ok. never sure about the time difference === JaneW [~JaneW@wbs-146-157-251.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk goes to make tea === JaneW too [09:52] runs [09:52] hi Jane === dholbach too [09:53] hmmmm .... tea [09:54] that's a stunning idea [09:54] diamond: date --utc === jbailey [~jbailey@CPE000ded9d787c-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:54] hey jeff === mvo goes to get some tea [09:54] zul: aye. done that twice today. just get twitchy about turning up late for these -) === elmo [~james@83-216-141-215.jamest298.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BlackHussar [~chatzilla@216.52.210.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Amaranth [~travis@amaranth.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:57] yay, i finally made it to a meeting [09:57] msg from doko: today, I am unable to attend the meeting, in fact I have problems to attend the meeting on Tuesdays until the end of June (from 16:30 UTC to 21:30 UTC) on a regular basis. In the past we did speak about having other time lines for the meeting, or at least changing time lines. Could this be a topic for today's meeting or can we change meeting times for the TBM from week to week? [09:58] hi maion [09:58] oops hi Kamion ;) [09:59] that's an impressive typo === Keybuk teaches JaneW about tab-completion === JaneW is very impressed with everybody updating their Breezy Goals - Thanks [09:59] JaneW: since only one of the TB members appears to be here this week, I think this week might be a bad time to discuss changing the schedule [09:59] Keybuk: I am slow on the uptake with that one, but I am getting there === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-50-59.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:59] Kamion: ok, understood [10:00] Kamion: It's been discussed a number of times, hasn't it? Doesn't it just need to be implemented? =) [10:00] silbs and cvd tend to be online if they're within bread-roll distance of sabdfl [10:00] and they're not [10:00] doko: had some other requests, shouls I mail them, or spool here? [10:00] jbailey: that was for the CC I suspect [10:00] jbailey: it was discussed and implemented for CC, but not TB [10:00] which tends to attract more non-member participation [10:00] well, s/attract/require/ [10:00] cvd is out for dinner tonight, nowhere near sabdfl [10:01] anyway [10:01] 2000UTC [10:01] how do I turn loggin on in xchat? [10:01] good evening everyone [10:01] JaneW: Settings->Preferences, choose logging [10:01] mdz is spending the week dead for tax purposes, so I'm driving tonight [10:01] JaneW: Preferences => Logging [10:01] JaneW: settings -> preferenences->logging [10:02] but as we haven't had one of these in a little while, it seemed worth doing despite the fact there's just me [10:02] Keybuk: Ah scott, there's no such thing as "just you" =) [10:02] lamont/smurfix: thanks [10:03] https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda [10:03] the agenda seems to be mostly a holdover from the last time === lamont isn't sure what preferenences is though... :-) [10:04] Kamion: i'm no holdover, but from what i heard you're in no state to decide tonight, right? [10:04] my name is wrong [10:04] before we start, does anything think it'd be bad to put a notice in the #ubuntu topic about not upgrading breezy for awhile? [10:04] err, anyone [10:04] GeradoDiGiacomo -> Gerardo :) [10:04] as neither mdz or sabdfl are here, I think we'll have to postpone both dholback-for-main and astharot-for-motu until the next meeting [10:04] dholbach: you're also already an uploader to main [10:04] is he ? [10:04] Kamion: i am? [10:04] at least assuming dh@mailempfang.de is you? [10:05] yes [10:05] ah no... seb128 uploaded for me [10:05] oh, no, I'm looking at the wrong file. Never mind. [10:05] it's ok for me to bug seb all the time ;-) === seb128 slaps dholbach [10:05] :) === dholbach hugs seb128 :-)= [10:06] Kamion: it's the keyring that matters [10:06] elmo: yeah, I worked that out [10:06] elmo: is dholbach in the keyring? :p [10:06] no [10:06] Keybuk: in the upload-to-main one? no [10:06] but, FWIW, I think he should be [10:06] yeah === fabbione thumbs up [10:07] yeah, I have no problem either, but without at least mdz or sabdfl, we can't act on that today === dholbach bows to all of you, thanks [10:07] dholbach: they don't like you :/ [10:07] ;) === Amaranth thinks an exception should be made for the guy that keeps universe rolling ;) [10:07] Are there any seed change proposals? That shouldn't be postponed anymore [10:08] I'd suggest an out-of-sequence meeting to take care of the MaintainerCandidates backlog, at some point [10:08] mono [10:08] Kamion: i already moved some of the guys that repeatedly didnt show up at the cc meetings [10:09] to "needs to show up again" .-) [10:09] was mono not discussed at UDU? [10:09] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?source=search&expr=SeedProposals&submit=Search === whiprush [~jorge@arslinux.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:09] it was approved at udu, yes [10:09] pitti approved today [10:09] unfortunately we haven't denoted those already done for hoary, which confuses matters [10:10] Keybuk, yep [10:10] FWIW, there will probably not be a seed freeze for Breezy [10:10] ok, so that can have TB blessing if required [10:10] it will be harder to move mono right now if I cant be approved to upload it until next TB [10:10] http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono [10:10] because it didn't really happen properly for Warty or Hoary, and we don't seem to have suffered unduly as a result === mgalvin [~mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:12] Kamion: yeah, and doesn't seem to take into account Base vs Standard now ? [10:12] there've been no proposals for Standard, because not enough people have realised it exists yet [10:12] basically those proposals haven't been maintained since Mataro or so [10:13] indeed, do you want to clean those pages up? good! well volunteered! :) [10:13] so it's probably worth discussing those seed changes that arose from UDU specs, but beyond that worry about them when people bug us === ike [~ike@83-131-12-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:14] ok, are the right people here? [10:14] well, anyone who has a spec that requires new packages in main, speak up. :-) [10:14] mono for main would also involve tseng upload rights to main, so we'll have to defer that i guess [10:14] I'm guessing desktop folk have a bunch [10:14]