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[12:11] <amu> ogra: jo?
[12:11] <ogra> http://gnome-ppx.berlios.de/screenshots/?PHPSESSID=091040f0a95c082f113d54de15a59bf4
[12:11] <ogra> :-D
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[12:12] <amu> ogra: *totalgrass* 
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[12:13] <ogra> amu, yeah, i stumbled across it today when i reviewed serpentine (CD burner) of this guy... this app is already quite old, should be stable
[12:13] <amu> ogra: but still not good as knet :D
[12:14] <mdke> looks pretty cool
[12:14] <ogra> amu, i thought about it for the dialup spec
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[12:14] <ogra> it handles pppd, so normal dialup handling should be trivial to implement
[12:14] <amu> ogra: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=10202
[12:14] <mdke> it seems to do pppoa
[12:15] <mdke> cool
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[12:15] <kent> ogra, I might be alone with this feeling, but shouldn't gnome trie to drop some of the hardcore-semantics?  I meen, for example, those screenshots use the word "superuser" and "root". Which normal people would understand those words? 
[12:15] <amu> ogra: ^^ that's cool 
[12:16] <ogra> kent, the wouldnt appear in ubuntu
[12:16] <ogra> they even
[12:16] <ogra> amu, thats KDE
[12:16] <ogra> :)
[12:17] <ogra> (would be cool if they used a real widget set *g*)
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[12:18] <amu> ogra: still good for plan B.) remove gnome as default desktop with kubuntu's one :)
[12:18] <ogra> bah
[12:18] <ogra> :)
[12:20] <amu> i'm sure about it, another 12 month later, kubuntu has double downloads compared to ubuntu *ducks&runaway*  
[12:20] <ogra> heh
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[12:21] <herzi> doko: ping
[12:21] <doko> ?
[12:21] <ogra> amu, gnome is too good, the normal ubuntu downloads will rise as well so no chance to catch us :)
[12:21] <herzi> doko: remember the gdb on ppc bug with the broken stack traces?
[12:22] <herzi> debian-powerpc seems to have solved this
[12:22] <doko> herzi: on the lists?
[12:23] <herzi> yes
[12:23] <doko> thanks, I'll have a look tomorrow
[12:25] <bluefoxicy> doko:  will you tell those bastards to fix their shit so you can get OOo working on amd64?  I'm really not liking being stuck with 1.1.3 but having 2.0-beta79 in a 32 bit install :/
=== bluefoxicy wonders if OOo compiles on a SPARC64, considering Sun controls the hosting. . . .
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[12:26] <doko> I don't know any bastards
[12:27] <ogra> doko, ? you dont ?
[12:27] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  Evidently doko lives in a place where the divorce rate and teen pregnancy rate are quite low :)
[12:28] <bluefoxicy> (you must use 'are' when referring to multiple subjects, unlike some of the descriptions for some packages)
=== bluefoxicy sips his green tea
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released! | MOM is awake! | Colony CD 1 released | gcc4 transition starting, breezy probably well broken, uploads of C++ packages restricted
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by doko at Tue May 17 18:26:45 2005
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[01:15] <schweeb> mako: dammit, keep missing each other
[01:16] <schweeb> mako: just wanted to know if you ever found out if I had to sign the CoC again or what
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[01:25] <stuNNed> which is the old method, inotify or dnotify?
[01:25] <tseng> dnotify could be considered "old"
[01:26] <tseng> inotify in hoary smokes serious ammounts of crack
=== stuNNed lights up
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[01:26] <stuNNed> can revert to dnotify in hoary?
[01:26] <tseng> thats the default
[01:27] <stuNNed> k i didn't have it installed for some odd reason
[01:27] <stuNNed> that why having trouble with gamin i wonder
[01:27] <tseng> huh?
[01:27] <tseng> have what installed
[01:29] <stuNNed> dnotify
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[01:30] <tseng> theres nothing to install
[01:30] <tseng> they are both kernel bits
[01:30] <stuNNed> dnotify_0.18.0-1_i386.deb  <-wuzzat?
[01:30] <tseng> beats me
[01:31] <tseng> maybe a userspace implementation of the same thing
[01:31] <stuNNed> my Desktop has been smoking crack saving files to it they don't show up unless `killall -9 nautilus`
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[01:36] <floogy> I have now a heavily mixed system (pinning) with breezy libc6. What should I do during the transition? downgrading? I'm using also a lot of sid packages.
[01:37] <stuNNed> smoke more crack?
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[01:37] <tseng> support in #ubuntu btw
[01:37] <tseng> but thats a pretty cracked out setup
[01:40] <floogy> Yes, I expect that it'll be hard to find help on #ubuntu. O.K. I will pin hoary to 1001.
[01:41] <Burgundavia> floogy, why are you doing such crazy things?
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[01:43] <floogy> because I wanted to have transcode and hugin for example, and I was used to use a mixed sarge/sid system of debian. I forgot the process of transition in 2002, but I think I did also a downgrade then...
[01:46] <Burgundavia> floogy, ok then. When you transition to Breezy, you should be able to get rid of most of that
[01:51] <floogy> Burgundavia: You mean, I should pin breezy instead of hoary to 1001, to get all the sid and hoary packages to breezy, instead to hoary. And wait for breezy to complete the trabnsition before "downgrading"/forcing to breezy?  
[02:02] <spo0nman> is there some way to have a "build env" so that i could run both hoary/breezy on the same box?
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[02:12] <floogy> spo0nman: chroot env? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
[02:13] <spo0nman> floogy, hmm
[02:13] <schweeb> spo0nman: pbuilder
[02:13] <schweeb> if you're only wanting a build environment
[02:14] <schweeb> if you're wanting to test apps, a chroot is probably the way to go
[02:14] <schweeb> or user mode linux
[02:14] <spo0nman> what is the standard ubuntu way of things?
[02:15] <schweeb> if you're building packages, pbuilder
[02:15] <TheMuso> There is also the classic dual boot.
[02:15] <schweeb> if you're testing apps by actually running them, chroot
[02:15] <schweeb> user mode linux is nice, but a bit difficult if you don't know what you're doing
[02:15] <schweeb> there's also VMWare
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[02:16] <spo0nman> vmware would be slow...
[02:16] <schweeb> VMWare isn't too bad
[02:17] <HrdwrBoB> vmware isn't very slow
[02:17] <HrdwrBoB> TheMuso: not terribly effecient
[02:17] <schweeb> quite inefficient
[02:18] <schweeb> eventually I want to have Xen set up, but I have a distinct lack of time
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[02:19] <schweeb> so pbuilder or chroot or u-m-l are my usual methods
[02:19] <spo0nman> thanks schweeb.
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[02:49] <robertj> was there enough salacious conversation in #ubuntu-meeting to make it worth reading the logs ;)
[02:52] <tseng> i told Amaranth his app sucked, and his stabbed me
[02:52] <tseng> that was the hilight
[02:52] <robertj> I'm sold
[02:52] <robertj> i'll have to read it online until the paperback arrives though
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[03:03] <robertj> hehe, Ogra's express mockup looks a bit like Apples installer
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Ubuntu 5.04 is released! | MOM is awake! | Colony CD 1 released | gcc4 transition starting, breezy probably well broken, uploads of C++ packages restricted
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by doko at Tue May 17 18:26:45 2005
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[07:04] <Lathiat> daniels: so i should wait a few hours before i update? :)
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[07:04] <daniels> it's all good if you like fun
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[07:05] <Lathiat> what kinda fun. :)
[07:05] <fabbione> Lathiat: no, you must update now, break your system and cry :)
[07:05] <Lathiat> ah but then you'll all get sick of me whinging :)
[07:05] <fabbione> and we can ban you from the chan :)
[07:06] <Lathiat> ah but i could go scr1pt k1dd1e stylez and join from like 100 h0st5
[07:07] <Lathiat> i think the general solution is to just wait. :)
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[07:31] <Amaranth> jdub: ping?
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[07:52] <pitti> Good morning
[07:52] <jdub> Amaranth: pong
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[07:52] <Amaranth> jdub: Could you add CarlK to the #ubuntu access list?
[07:52] <pitti> Hi ogra/ogra_d (who is who?)
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[07:54] <jdub> Amaranth: done
[07:54] <Amaranth> jdub: thanks
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=== fabbione starts the Colony 1 rsync dance
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[08:29] <NZheretic> Dial up access is a pig of a system in Ubuntu, even Fedora is easier! WHERE THE HELL is the modemlights applet in Hoary! As far as the Ubuntu "documentation" floating around the web . there are three conflicting solutions for the same problem which configure/front dial-up access :  pppconfig+pon+poff+gpppon , gnome-ppp+wvdial  and the curretly not working modem applet ( requires administrator password even if the user is in the
[08:29] <NZheretic>  approprate groups  )+network monitor. 
[08:29] <Lathiat> sigh someone complaining on ubuntu-users about prelink.
[08:29] <daniels> NZheretic: try being less inflammatory and more constructive, ok?
[08:29] <Lathiat> NZheretic: This is the wrong channel for these questions, please ask in #ubuntu
[08:30] <Lathiat> NZheretic: If you are trying to get the problem solved and have a nice way to do this in ubuntu, in which case filing a bug in ubuntu bugzilla would be a good start. (and what daniels said)
[08:31] <Lathiat> NZheretic: also, there is a modem monitor applet on the panel installed by default, but i have never used it.
[08:34] <NZheretic> I am about to file a bug report for the curent  modem applet (   requires administrator password even if the user is in the group ),  I have just managed to get the combination of  pppconfig+pon+poff+gpppon with network monitor working, but not really well enough for the target newbe user ( she has a crappy POT phone service, needs live connection monitor )...
[08:35] <fabbione> Kamion: can you please schedule http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/sparc-no-usb.diff for the next d-i upload? our sparc64 doesn't have usb yet
[08:37] <NZheretic> with warty it was possible to use pon+poff from modemlights. The choice to drop modemlights in favor of current applet was not a good choice.
[08:37] <daniels> NZheretic: again, file a bug
[08:37] <daniels> barging in here and rambling on is a good way to get forgotten very quickly
[08:38] <NZheretic> daniels : consider it done tonight.
[08:38] <NZheretic> daniels : I want to pull down the code to see if I can supply a patch.
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[09:29] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:29] <seb128> hey pitti 
[09:31] <fabbione> hey pitti
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[09:43] <jsgotangco> hey hey hey
[09:48] <mvo> hey jsgotangco 
[09:49] <jsgotangco> mvo, hey its been a while how have you been
[09:50] <mvo> jsgotangco: very well :) how about you?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> been busy for  a while, i have  new client for an oracle implementation just 45 day project though
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[09:54] <cartman> gcc on breezy changed targer from x86_64-linux to x86_64-linux-gnu (for amd64). Is this intended?
[09:55] <fabbione> cartman: yes. we love to break more than required
[09:55] <fabbione> :P
[09:55] <cartman> yeah that sounds about right indeed...
=== Lathiat grins
[09:57] <cartman> anyway I guess this is the final decision?
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[10:02] <pitti> seb128: are you fine with my cdbs gnome.mk proposal?
[10:02] <pitti> carlos: you as well?
[10:04] <carlos> pitti, I think so, but let me read it again
[10:05] <seb128> pitti: not tried it yet, on my list for this morning :)
[10:05] <seb128> pitti: any hurry?
[10:05] <carlos> pitti, yeah, looks ok for me
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: no particular hurry, no
[10:05] <pitti> carlos: okay, thanks
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[10:08] <seb128> pitti: just looked on it, looks fine (assuming than the DOMAIN regexp works as expected but I trust you on that, you have probably played with it) :)
[10:08] <seb128> go go go
[10:08] <pitti> seb128: it works for the three cases I tried it with :-)
[10:09] <seb128> k, should be fine, upload, that's an unstable branch anyway
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: in any case, even if it is wrong, the worst that can happen is that it doesn't generate a pot
[10:09] <seb128> right
=== pitti watches 2.6.12 boot on his laptop
=== \sh checks why breezy morphes into hurd
[10:12] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  2688 May 18 08:08 libqssl-dev_2.0-1ubuntu1_hurd-i386.deb
[10:12] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  2154 May 18 08:08 libqssl2_2.0-1ubuntu1_hurd-i386.deb
[10:12] <\sh> .oO(???)
=== Lathiat wonders how that got thru
[10:13] <pitti> \sh: ssh, that's a surprise, don't spoil it :-)
[10:13] <Lathiat> i see a few hurd things try to autosync every so often
[10:13] <\sh> pitti: yeah it is...after building it by myself, I can say: I have hurd running on my laptop ;)
[10:16] <\sh> but any reason why this is happening? after considering that Q is not around and Guinan is not watching me, I don't see any reason why breezy is compiling things for i386 hurd ;)
[10:20] <Kamion> fabbione: done (in a slightly different way, but close enough)
[10:21] <Kamion> \sh: er ... it's not?
[10:21] <Kamion> libqssl-dev |      2.0-1 | breezy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[10:21] <fabbione> Kamion: i am sure that it is good enough with your magic touhc :)
[10:21] <Kamion> fabbione: (I poked the sparc-usb include file a bit instead)
[10:22] <\sh> kamion: recompiled it for cxx trans
[10:22] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. it is enough that di doesn't try to pull in usb-modules
[10:22] <fabbione> Kamion: it will be there sometimes with 2.6.12
[10:22] <fabbione> but i am not going to get crazy for 2.6.10
[10:23] <\sh> think I hit the button for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_Drive
[10:26] <Kamion> \sh: oh, you mean you just built it and got that? It probably checks DEB_*_GNU_SYSTEM and gets it wrong; dpkg's behaviour changed.
[10:27] <\sh> Kamion: but how can I fix it??? 
[10:27] <Kamion>     - dpkg-architecture outputs (mostly) correct GNU system names now,
[10:27] <Kamion>       in particular this means that it will output "linux-gnu" instead
[10:27] <Kamion>       of "linux".  You should use the new _ARCH_OS variables instead.
[10:28] <seb128> mvo: thanks for taking the gksu bugs :)
[10:29] <Kamion> although I don't see anything like that in qssl's debian/rules ...
[10:29] <doko> $ dpkg-architecture | grep GNU_TYPE DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE=i386-linux-gnu
[10:29] <doko> DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE=i386-gnu
[10:30] <doko> Keybuk: ^^^
[10:30] <Kamion> doko: you've only set the environment variable for grep there, not for dpkg-architecture
[10:30] <doko> wrong paste ...
[10:30] <doko> $ dpkg-architecture | grep GNU_TYPE
[10:31] <doko> DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE=i386-linux-gnu
[10:31] <\sh> DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE=i386-linux-gnu
[10:31] <\sh> DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE=i386-gnu
[10:31] <Kamion> \sh: try 'dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH'?
[10:31] <\sh> hmm
[10:31] <\sh> hurd-i386 *g*
[10:31] <Kamion> d'oh
[10:31] <\sh> strange
[10:31] <\sh> that's new
[10:31] <Kamion> KEYBUK
[10:31] <doko> scotttt !!!
[10:31] <mvo> seb128: didn't you just assigned them to me ;) ?
[10:32] <seb128> michael.vogt@ubuntu.com changed:
[10:32] <seb128>            What    |Removed                     |Added
[10:32] <seb128> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[10:32] <seb128>          AssignedTo|debzilla@ubuntu.com         |michael.vogt@ubuntu.com
[10:32] <seb128> nop
[10:32] <seb128> you did :)
[10:32] <\sh> Kamion: any idea how to fix it? or what caused thi problem?
[10:32] <mvo> d'oh :)
[10:33] <Kamion> \sh: be patient, I'm investigating
[10:33] <\sh> Kamion: ok ;)
[10:35] <\sh> I should rewatch the new hitchhickers guide, at least I can examine most of the bugs ;)
[10:35] <Kamion> I imagine doko is investigating too
[10:36] <doko> curently looking ...
[10:37] <\sh> writing message to the.register and slashdot: "Hurd is not dead! Hurd is living and hurting us badly" ,-)
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[10:40] <Kamion> downgrading dpkg is painful, have to mess about with md5sum.textutils by hand and then use --force-overwrite-diverted
[10:42] <Lathiat> downgrading dpkg or downgrading with dpkg?
[10:42] <Kamion> the former
[10:42] <daniels> downgrading dpkg
[10:42] <Burgundavia> daniels, ping
[10:42] <daniels> pong
[10:42] <Kamion> Leaving `local diversion of /usr/bin/md5sum.textutils to /usr/bin/md5sum'
=== Kamion points and laughs, scott doesn't know how to use dpkg-divert
[10:43] <Burgundavia> daniels,  have you seen this? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35143
=== Burgundavia wishes forum people would just file bug reports
[10:43] <daniels> Kamion: does anyone?
[10:43] <jsgotangco> OT: who's into Gundam here, i'll give you a good blog link real life gundam heh
[10:43] <daniels> Burgundavia: yes.  this is why people shouldn't use breezy unless they know what they're doing.
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[10:45] <Burgundavia> daniels, ok, figured I would give you the bug report via the forum, hope it is useful
[10:46] <daniels> yeah, already caught it earlier, just need to finally get the transition done with so I can upload xfonts-core
[10:46] <daniels> thanks though
[10:46] <Kamion> \sh: is $CC set to anything?
[10:46] <doko> Kamion: which gcc do you use?
[10:47] <Kamion> doko: it's not me who has the problem
[10:48] <Kamion> ah, but yes, it's the change in 'gcc -dumpmachine' output that did it
[10:48] <Kamion> in 4.0
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[10:53] <elmo> ALL YOUR PKGS BELONG TO KATIE, KTHXBYE
[10:53] <Lathiat> hai2u elmo 
[10:54] <Kamion> ah, ordering ostable is probably sufficient
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[10:55] <Kamion> better
[10:56] <Kamion> doko,\sh: try http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/dpkg-architecture.patch
[11:00] <elmo> (err, sorry, that was meant to be: katie's been disabled till this dpkg thing is resolved )
[11:00] <pitti> trulux: here?
[11:01] <doko> kamion: better
[11:01] <doko> $ dpkg-architecture DEB_BUILD_ARCH=i386 DEB_BUILD_ARCH_OS=linux
[11:01] <doko> DEB_BUILD_ARCH_CPU=i386
[11:01] <doko> DEB_BUILD_GNU_CPU=i386
[11:01] <doko> DEB_BUILD_GNU_SYSTEM=linux-gnu
[11:01] <doko> DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE=i386-linux-gnu
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_ARCH=i386
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS=linux
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU=i386
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_GNU_CPU=i386
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM=linux-gnu
[11:01] <doko> DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE=i386-linux-gnu
[11:02] <doko> but gcc already picked up the -gnu, so I need to rebuild it
[11:02] <Kamion> gcc picked it up? I thought dpkg-architecture got it from gcc
[11:02] <Kamion> yay circularity
[11:04] <Kamion> ostable's going to need reordering for kfreebsd and knetbsd too (not that Ubuntu cares)
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[11:05] <fabbione> is it only i386 affected?
[11:05] <Kamion> ok, I can't get to scott's arch archive, but I'll upload dpkg with that fix and talk to him later
[11:05] <Kamion> fabbione: no, powerpc too at least
[11:05] <Kamion> probably all arches
[11:05] <doko> changelog entry: "Revert Keybuk's strong committment to the Hurd" ;-)
[11:05] <Kamion> # dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH
[11:05] <Kamion> hurd-powerpc
[11:05] <Lathiat> doko: haha
[11:06] <doko> Kamion: really?
[11:06] <fabbione> it looks like that everything that has been uploaded after build-essential, is affected
[11:06] <Kamion> yes, 'gcc -dumpmachine' says powerpc-linux-gnu
[11:06] <Kamion> and dpkg-architecture matches that on /gnu[^-] */ because that happens to be the first thing it picks from the %ostable_re hash
[11:07] <Kamion> my patch makes it go through ostable in order so that it always tries /linux[^-] *(-gnu.*)?/ first
[11:07] <fabbione> that is around 31/32 pkgs
[11:07] <fabbione> probably less
[11:08] <Kamion> have they all built hurd-* binaries?
[11:08] <fabbione> Kamion: i am checking for host architecture in the build logs
[11:10] <fabbione> but we might as well reupload everything after dpkg to be 100% safe
[11:10] <fabbione> it's only 60 pkgs
[11:10] <fabbione> sorry.. less than that
[11:12] <Kamion> I think it's only packages uploaded after the gcc-4.0 upload after dpkg 1.13.4
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[11:12] <Kamion> which was 4.0.0-7ubuntu4 I think
[11:12] <fabbione> Kamion: no, it's before that
[11:12] <fabbione> using -changes timeline:
[11:12] <Kamion> that's odd, because it only breaks when you upgrade to that gcc as far as I can work out
[11:12] <fabbione> build-essential 11.0ubuntu1 is ok (on i386 at least)
[11:13] <fabbione> java-gcj-compat is not
[11:13] <Kamion> since gcc versions before that said "i486-linux" etc. and didn't match /gnu[^-] */
[11:13] <fabbione> and it was uploaded immediatly after
[11:14] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, gcc 4.0.0-7ubuntu3 then - but that was uploaded before the gcc-defaults link was switched
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[11:14] <Kamion> fabbione: so yeah, after gcc-defaults/build-essential
[11:15] <fabbione> Kamion: mind to /j u-toolchain so we can keep all in one chan :)
[11:16] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[11:16] <dholbach> hellas mvo :-)
[11:16] <Burgundavia> mvo, thanks for all the great work in synaptic, btw
[11:16] <pitti> Moin dholbach 
[11:17] <dholbach> hi pitti :-)
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[11:19] <mvo> Burgundavia: thanks, I'm working through your buglist :)
[11:21] <dholbach> hey jsgotangco :-)
[11:21] <Burgundavia> mvo, I thinking about more to add, don;t worrry
[11:21] <dholbach> Burgundavia: fix some universe packages instead ;-)
[11:22] <jsgotangco> dholbach, hey
[11:22] <jsgotangco> dholbach, got a minute?
[11:22] <dholbach> jsgotangco: yes
[11:22] <Burgundavia> dholbach, call me stupid, but I can't make heads or tails of deb packaging, in terms of adding .desktop files. I eagerly await tsengs intro
=== mvo runs
[11:23] <dholbach> Burgundavia: once i'm getting a bit out of work, i'll give you a hand
[11:23] <chmj> bugzilla won't take my bug entry 
[11:23] <seb128> whoever is putting .desktop files, try to get that upstream or from Debian too
[11:23] <seb128> or that's going to be a lot of merge work
[11:23] <Burgundavia> seb128, will do
[11:23] <dholbach> hellas seb128 
[11:24] <seb128> daniel :)
[11:24] <dholbach> seb128: hrmbl, accent on your name doesnt work in irssi 
[11:24] <dholbach> have to wait until x works again :-)
[11:25] <seb128> you have broken your box?
[11:25] <dholbach> no... X has :-)
[11:26] <seb128> I've not upgraded yet
[11:26] <seb128> no hurry :p
[11:26] <dholbach> seb128: right... take your time :-)
[11:26] <dholbach> i will do the laundry in the meantime
[11:26] <seb128> dholbach: I'm breaking GNOME atm
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[11:26] <dholbach> ROCK! :-)
[11:26] <seb128> so you have some fun after fixing xorg
[11:27] <daniels> xorg is already fixed
[11:28] <dholbach> i just wait for the archive to receive the good news :-)
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[11:31] <doko> gcc-4.0 (4.0.0-7ubuntu6) breezy; urgency=low
[11:31] <doko>   * Don't trust dpkg-architecture, it hurds ...
[11:31] <jsgotangco> wohooo
[11:31] <dholbach> :-)
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[11:35] <seb128> jamesh: around?
[11:35] <jamesh> seb128: yeah
[11:36] <seb128> jamesh: any opinion on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10289 ?
=== jamesh looks
[11:36] <Burgundavia> mvo, fell free to mark my bugs as pure crack
[11:37] <seb128> jamesh: tagtool has a such breakage (there a malone bug about it) and that's only a rebuild of the debian package which works fine if you want an example (not sure if that's this issue but seems to be)
[11:37] <jamesh> seb128: I'll add a comment
[11:37] <seb128> thanks
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[12:03] <sjmorgan> hi, can somebody help me with a problem that could quite possible be a serious bug?
[12:03] <sjmorgan> i'd like it confirmed first before i file it as i'm not 100% sure
[12:03] <pitti> sjmorgan: just describe the bug
[12:03] <sjmorgan> i can't boot windows anymore
[12:03] <sjmorgan> the partition is there and flagged as ntfs under cfdisk
[12:03] <sjmorgan> but i can't boot off it
[12:04] <sjmorgan> the best i can get is grub freezes and i have to reboot the machine
[12:04] <sjmorgan> i've tried booting off the windows install cd and doing fixboot c: which made no difference
[12:04] <sjmorgan> it mounts fine under linux
[12:04] <sjmorgan> the partition, that is
[12:05] <sjmorgan> it's also marked as bootable under cfdisk
[12:06] <pitti> sjmorgan: does grub show any error message?
[12:07] <sjmorgan> nope
[12:07] <pitti> did that happen only recently and worked before? or did you just install Ubuntu the first time and it immediately killed the win boot?
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[12:07] <thom> check the drive is still marked as LBA in the bios?
[12:07] <sjmorgan> i don't know if it's meant to "understand" ntfs but when i do tab completion in it to get a list of partitions, the windows one appears as an "unkown" type
[12:07] <sjmorgan> it only happened recently and worked before
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[12:08] <pitti> sjmorgan: tab completion in grub?
[12:08] <sjmorgan> you can tab complete a list of partitions
[12:08] <sjmorgan> when specifying the root
[12:09] <sjmorgan> it gives you a list of drives and then partitions on the one you select if you hit tab
[12:09] <sjmorgan> thom: but it's using the same settings it's always used
[12:09] <sjmorgan> the defaults
[12:10] <sjmorgan> i've never had a problem like this before or had to mess with bios hard drive settings
[12:10] <sjmorgan> also, the menu.lst uses "root" but i tried "rootnerify" which makes no difference
[12:11] <sjmorgan> rootnoverify even
[12:12] <pitti> sjmorgan: seriously, I have no idea. Could you please open a bug? Maybe somebody with more knowledge (and an actually installed Windows) knows better
[12:13] <Kamion> there are a few bugs along those lines; I can basically do nothing with them
[12:13] <Kamion> unfortunately
[12:13] <sjmorgan> why not?
[12:13] <Kamion> but search through the installer bugs and you'll probably find some information
[12:13] <Kamion> because I know sod-all about booting Windows?
[12:13] <sjmorgan> do you maintain the grub package?
[12:13] <Kamion> yes
[12:14] <Kamion> well, sort of
[12:14] <Kamion> bugs tend to end up with me because installer =~ booting
[12:14] <sjmorgan> seems like something that should be pretty high up a list of things somebody maintaining the grub package should know
[12:14] <Kamion> as I say though, I think there's some useful information in the bugs that have been filed; you might want to take a look through them to see if they're helpful
[12:15] <sjmorgan> ok
[12:15] <Kamion> dude, the installer is my prioriuty
[12:15] <Kamion> I only end up getting grub bugs 'cos nobody else wants them :)
[12:15] <sjmorgan> heheh ok
[12:15] <sjmorgan> i seriously wouldn't be suprised if it was windows that was throwing a hissy fit
[12:15] <sjmorgan> just after grub hands over the reigns to the windows bootloader
[12:16] <Kamion> it often is, but it's also often something finicky to do with partition table layout
[12:16] <Kamion> but you said you hadn't changed that recently ...
[12:16] <Kamion> is Windows on a second hard disk or anything?
[12:16] <sjmorgan> i made a lot of hd changes a month or so ago, but i used partition magic to move stuff around which obviously means i was capable of booting windows
[12:17] <sjmorgan> actually
[12:17] <sjmorgan> good point!
[12:17] <sjmorgan> not strictly, but it's on my primary sata drive
[12:17] <sjmorgan> which could be interpreted as a second drive
[12:18] <Kamion> there are various 'map' runes you can use ...
[12:18] <sjmorgan> and grub has it flagges as hd2, which would back that up
[12:18] <Kamion> try:
[12:18] <Kamion> map (hd0) (hd2)
[12:18] <Kamion> map (hd2) (hd0)
[12:18] <Kamion> in the Windows booting stanza
[12:19] <sjmorgan> cool i'll do that now
[12:19] <Kamion> may not work, but worth a try
[12:19] <sjmorgan> does it matter where it is in the list of commands for that section?
[12:19] <Kamion> I'm not sure. I'd put it first I think.
[12:19] <sjmorgan> k
[12:19] <Kamion> and refer to the disk as (hd0) thereafter
[12:20] <sjmorgan> i was just gonna ask that hehe
[12:20] <sjmorgan> ok cool
[12:20] <sjmorgan> should "root" be "rootnoverify" btw?
[12:20] <sjmorgan> it is in the example menu.lst
[12:21] <sjmorgan> or doesn't it really matter
[12:21] <Kamion> uh, see the grub documentation for that command, it's a bit complicated
[12:21] <Kamion> try with 'root' first
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[12:21] <jsgotangco> bye everyone
[12:22] <sjmorgan> ok i'll go and try that now and report back whether it works
[12:22] <sjmorgan> brb
[12:22] <Kamion> rootnoverify is for when GRUB can't read the area of the disk containing the OS ... oh, he left
[12:26] <thom> "project looking glass was distinctly absent from shuttleworth's talk"
[12:26] <daniels> project looking glass is distinctly absent from reality
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[12:27] <thom> exactly
[12:27] <Kamion> sjmorgan: 11:22 < Kamion> rootnoverify is for when GRUB can't read the area of the disk containing the OS ... oh, he left
[12:27] <Burgundavia> thom, where is that quote from?
[12:27] <sjmorgan> Kamion: thanks man, it worked
[12:27] <Kamion> sjmorgan: yay!
[12:27] <sjmorgan> although note: you don't change the old root hd*
[12:27] <Kamion> sjmorgan: I wonder how it worked in the first place
[12:27] <Kamion> sjmorgan: hmm?
[12:27] <sjmorgan> it must dynamically map it to the new one when you boot
[12:28] <Kamion> oh, you left it at hd2?
[12:28] <sjmorgan> so say hd2 didn't work, you keep it as is and just add the map stuff
[12:28] <Kamion> ok
[12:28] <thom> Burgundavia: one of the sites linked on sounder this morning
[12:28] <sjmorgan> well i changed it which didn't work so i changed it back and it did
[12:28] <sjmorgan> but yeah apart from that it worked great
[12:28] <sjmorgan> stupid windows
[12:28] <Kamion> if I could figure out how to make grub-installer do that automatically, I would
[12:28] <Kamion> actually ...
[12:28] <Kamion> I guess I could figure out which one is the first disk from device.map?
[12:29] <Kamion> or even just do it for anything ! hd0
[12:29] <Kamion> sjmorgan: could you mail your current menu.lst to cjwatson@ubuntu.com, please? I'll see if I can make the installer do the right thing
[12:29] <sjmorgan> cool
[12:29] <sjmorgan> yeah sure
[12:30] <Kamion> thanks
[12:30] <Kamion> might get rid of a class of bugs I hate receiving :-)
[12:31] <sjmorgan> hehehe
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[12:34] <sjmorgan> you could always make the installer delete all windows partitions and save everyone a lot of trouble
[12:34] <pitti_> sjmorgan: then it breaks in a well defined way at least :-)
[12:34] <sjmorgan> hahah
=== Lathiat grins
[12:39] <Kamion> ok, well, untested fix in my d-i working tree now, at least
[12:41] <sjmorgan> excellent
[12:42] <Lathiat> insert mr burns styles
[12:42] <sjmorgan> eeeeexcellent smithers
[12:43] <pitti_> elmo: please sync squid
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[12:57] <sjmorgan> gotta go, thanks a lot for your help guys
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[01:22] <Treenaks> Where does the installer get its hostname suggestion from?
[01:22] <Lathiat> Treenaks: dhcp | "ubuntu"
[01:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: ah, dhcp :)
[01:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: cool
=== thom sighs and boots i386
[01:29] <Kamion> Treenaks: dhcp | dns | "ubuntu" actually
[01:29] <tsume> thom: have the x86 blues? ;)
[01:29] <Kamion> it does a reverse lookup on the IP address it's got (often from DHCP)
[01:29] <Treenaks> Kamion: that's even cooler
[01:30] <Treenaks> Kamion: especially if it works on ipv6 too (or would that be a good "get to know d-i" project?)
[01:30] <Kamion> netcfg doesn't support IPv6
[01:30] <Kamion> feel free to make it :)
[01:30] <Kamion> netcfg is a rather strange and awkward bit of d-i, but it would be one interesting place to start, yes
[01:31] <Lathiat> hmm that would be usefull
[01:32] <Treenaks> Lathiat: autoconf | dhcpv6 | give up ?
[01:32] <Lathiat> dhcpv6 doesnt exist *cough*
[01:32] <Lathiat> autoconf | manual setup
[01:32] <Lathiat> | give up
[01:32] <Lathiat> imho
[01:32] <Treenaks> Lathiat: that'd be better
[01:32] <Treenaks> Lathiat: s/better/easier
[01:33] <Lathiat> and then we can integrate avahi into d-i to get a dns server! :) heh.
[01:33] <Lathiat> speaking of that i should do some hacking
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[01:38] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[01:43] <doko> Kamion: gcc -dumpmachine on powerpc did have the -gnu thing as well?
[01:45] <Kamion> doko: yes
[01:46] <tja> kamion: does grub-installer support seeding encrypted password nowadays?
[01:47] <Kamion> tja: no
[01:47] <tja> ok
[01:47] <Kamion> in fact AFAIK it doesn't support preseeding a password at all
[01:48] <tja> little bit of sed-magic in the late_command does the same, but anyway ;)
[01:48] <Lathiat> daniels: http://bur.st/~lathiat/ubuntu-dbus-doc-suggests.patch
[01:49] <Kamion> ooh, debconf progress bars *nearly* working ...
[01:49] <tja> kamion: true, it doesn't support that
[01:54] <tja> kamion: what is the best way to hack on d-i (or u-i)?
[01:55] <tja> preseeding the grub-password is one thing, then there's the pivot_root-stuff I mailed you about some time ago
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[02:01] <tja> ..and those are features that I'd look into ;)
[02:03] <Kamion> tja: how d'you mean? the individual source packages are in the archive
[02:04] <tja> debian-installer and grub?
[02:06] <Kamion> grub-installer in this case
[02:06] <Kamion> d-i is modular
[02:06] <tja> yes
[02:06] <tja> ok
[02:06] <Kamion> you need to know which piece you're going to work on. if you don't know, it's generally easier to start with the upstream tree from svn (http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/svn)
[02:07] <Riddell> elmo: upload to hoary-security "Rejected: kdelibs is a frozen package for the CXX transition."  will that sort itself out?
[02:07] <tja> kamion: checkout done
[02:08] <tja> I'll poke around and see what happens..
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[02:12] <dholbach> hey
[02:12] <ogra_d> hi dholbach 
[02:13] <dholbach> where's the new x? :-(
[02:13] <Lathiat> maybe it ftbfs? :\
[02:13] <dholbach> no
[02:13] <ogra_d> who needs X anyway
[02:13] <Lathiat> haha
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[02:29] <thom> by the way, american keyboards suck. that is all.#
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[02:32] <bob2> yeah
[02:33] <bob2> htf do you type "logical not" on them?
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[02:35] <Lathiat> whats an 'american keyboard' ot significant?
[02:36] <Treenaks> bob2: why would you want to type logical not?
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[02:37] <bob2> I don't know, ask whoever designed UK keyboards.
[02:38] <Lathiat> whats a logical not?
[02:38] <Lathiat> ! ?
[02:38] <pitti> 
[02:38] <Lathiat> wtf is that that cmes up as a unicodey block for me
[02:39] <Treenaks> Dutch keyboards tend to be nicer.. they have "@" where "`" is on US keyboards
[02:39] <pitti> Lathiat: /charset UTF-8?
[02:39] <Treenaks> and / where \ is, and no \
[02:39] <Lathiat> pitti: this is supposed to be utf-8
[02:39] <Treenaks> Lathiat: paste it in mozilla then
[02:39] <pitti> Lathiat: do you see umlauts? 
[02:39] <Lathiat> irssi, screen and gnome-terminal all have utf8 on, humm
[02:39] <Lathiat> and no
[02:40] <pitti> Lathiat: if '' does not look like an 'a' with two dots on top, then your IRC client is screwed
[02:40] <Lathiat> it used to work
[02:40] <Treenaks> http://www.datacal.com/products/dutch-layout.htm
[02:40] <Lathiat> wonder shy its stopped working
[02:40] <bob2> Treenaks: how do windows users type paths?
[02:41] <Treenaks> bob2: why do you think everyone uses US keyboards here?
[02:41] <bob2> haha
=== Lathiat [~lathiat@gasp.bur.st]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:41] <Lathiat> pizzathief: how bout now
[02:42] <Lathiat> err
[02:42] <Lathiat> pitti: 
[02:42] <pitti> ?
[02:42] <trulux> pitti: yup, back from school
[02:42] <trulux> what's up fellows?
[02:42] <pitti> trulux: hey
[02:42] <Lathiat> pitti: type a unicodey character?
[02:42] <bob2> 
[02:42] <bob2> that is so weird
[02:42] <Treenaks> 
[02:43] <pitti> trulux: I tested the new kernel; works fine, but the sysctls should be on by default (which they aren't)
[02:43] <bob2> in my entry window it looks like gibberish, but in the main irc window it's fine
[02:43] <pitti> Lathiat:    ^
[02:43] <Treenaks> bob2: irssi? :)
[02:43] <Lathiat> blah still broken.
[02:43] <pitti> Lathiat: and  is the logical not
[02:43] <bob2> Treenaks: jah
[02:43] <trulux> pitti: turned on by default? OK, will do later
[02:43] <pitti> trulux: yes, otherwise it doesn't make much sense
[02:44] <pitti> trulux: ideally the default is set with the kernel configuration
[02:44] <trulux> I'm going to design a beige-like box for testing my home phone line, the cat was playing on the wires
[02:44] <pitti> trulux: i. e. if I say "Y" in kconfig, I want to have it enabled by default
[02:44] <pitti> trulux: otherwise we had to change all grub menus out there
[02:44] <pitti> trulux: otherwise it works great!
[02:45] <mvirkkil> Has anyone looked in to phonegaim as an alternative to Shtoom for breezy?
[02:45] <Lathiat> mvirkkil: phonegaim?
[02:45] <mvirkkil> Lathiat: Linspire put voip technology in to gaim.
=== Lathiat google
[02:46] <mvirkkil> Lathiat: http://www.phonegaim.com/
[02:46] <Lathiat> is it gpl?
[02:46] <mvirkkil> Lathiat: Yes.
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[02:47] <ogra_d> mvirkkil, put it on UniverseCandidates
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[02:48] <mvirkkil> Lathiat: Since it's integrated in to gaim, it might be preferred over another standalone app.
[02:48] <trulux> pitti: well,I can set CONFIG_SECURITY_KRSEC_FEATURES_ENABLED to bool , and a static int into code, so, it enables the featurs on __init call
[02:49] <koke> mvirkkil: it's a bit hidden but http://software.linspire.com/pool-src/p/phonegaim/
[02:49] <pitti> trulux: however you do that, I only care about that it works :-)
[02:49] <mvirkkil> koke: Thanks :-) I was just looking for that.
[02:49] <Lathiat> well, it uses SIP
[02:50] <Lathiat> so i like that part
[02:50] <trulux> pitti: OK, just trying to make you understanding the underlying design
[02:50] <pitti> trulux: yeah, that sounds fine
[02:50] <Lathiat> if i twas another skype i would have shot them. :)
[02:50] <Lathiat> the question is whether it will let you call non im users etc
[02:51] <koke> Lathiat: it actually uses linphone
[02:51] <trulux> skype rocks
[02:51] <ogra_d> yep
[02:51] <ogra_d> and its a native package *shudder*
[02:51] <Lathiat> trulux: but its protocol is propietry, which sucks.
[02:51] <Lathiat> theres a reason for it, but theres no reason they couldnt have adapted around that.
[02:52] <Lathiat> i'd also kcare less if theyd provide a si pgateway
=== |zzzzz [~|zzzzz@ppp2B95.dsl.pacific.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:59] <mvirkkil> ogra_d: 'native package'?
[02:59] <ogra> yep, no diff.gz
[03:00] <dholbach> a new tarball for every 'debian' revision
[03:00] <mvirkkil> ogra: Oh. Haven't heard the expression "native package" used that way before.
[03:01] <thom> mvirkkil: "debian native package" it means; ie a package built specifically for debian from the ground up, rather than using source from elsewhere
[03:02] <ogra_d> which is a PITA if you are not the upstream of this package and need to introduce changes
[03:02] <dholbach> thom: those _should_ be the only cases
[03:02] <thom> dholbach: yes
=== dholbach found 48Mb native packages :-)
[03:03] <mvirkkil> Oh, and it seems it branched off of Gaim 10/19/2004
[03:07] <mvirkkil> Someone has made 'debian' packages http://people.debian.org/~smimram/ (probably by running make)
[03:10] <ogra> nope
[03:10] <ogra> he actually switched the native package to a cdbs package
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[03:11] <mvirkkil> I also found this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/sipdevel/
[03:11] <ogra> uuuh, and patched Makefile.in instead of .am
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[03:21] <Kamion> it's common to produce a native package accidentally by forgetting to rename the upstream tarball to PACKAGE_VERSION.orig.tar.gz
[03:21] <Kamion> PACKAGE_UPSTREAMVERSION that is
[03:22] <Baby> it's quite usual to rename it to PACKAGE-VERSION.orig.tar.gz instead.. i've seen that in some lists
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[03:24] <tsume> what pacakge is fixed fonts for Xorg located in? Breezy is broken :)
[03:24] <tsume> *package
=== ogra suspects linspire to only produce native packages
[03:24] <tsume> I looked at the log, and it said it couldn't find the fixed fonts
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[03:24] <tsume> does someone have a fix yet?
[03:25] <ogra> tsume, just wait...
[03:25] <dholbach> tsume: same here, i'm investigating and seem to hit the question: is /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/* really meant to be?
[03:26] <tsume> hmm
=== tsume looks on his lappy
[03:26] <dholbach> because it's not what i have in xorg.conf
[03:26] <ogra> dholbach, we are going away from /usr/X11R6
[03:26] <ogra> so that might be your prob
[03:26] <tsume> orga: why?
[03:26] <ogra> because this paths are insane....
[03:26] <tsume> orga: X apps belong in /usr/X11R6
[03:27] <mvirkkil> ogra: Someone might simply contact them and ask :-)
[03:27] <ogra> mvirkkil, i'm         notafter this :)
[03:27] <tsume> orga: no, it seperates X apps from command line apps
[03:27] <ogra> oops
[03:27] <dholbach> ogra: the fonts ARE in there (after the upgrade) and it's not the place that's mentioned in xorg.conf
[03:27] <thom> tsume: no, they don't. there's no reason to do this
[03:27] <tsume> thom: I disagree, seperation by catagory is a good thing(tm)
[03:27] <ogra> dholbach, then they are in the wrong place.... what does xorg.conf show you ?
[03:28] <tsume> thom: its difficult when you have 3000+ files in /usr/lib
[03:28] <dholbach> ogra: /usr/share/X11/fonts/...
[03:28] <tsume> seperation helps clear up sme of the "crap"
[03:28] <mvirkkil> thom: Are you the voip boss for breezy?
[03:28] <ogra> tsume, 90% of X app (gnome/KDE other stuff)  is in /usr/bin since ages
[03:28] <thom> tsume: no, package management clears up the crap; besides, the seperation hasn't existed fully for a *long* time
[03:28] <thom> mvirkkil: yes
[03:28] <ogra> so it just doesnt make sense to have a special dir for xbase-clients
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[03:29] <dholbach> mvirkkil: thom rocks! :-)
[03:29] <ogra> yeah
[03:29] <thom> hahah
[03:29] <mvirkkil> thom: :) Are you interested in phonegaim?
[03:30] <mvirkkil> thom: Or is Shtoom the way to go?
[03:30] <ogra> shtoom !!
[03:30] <ogra> :)
[03:30] <ogra> if its ever readsy
[03:30] <mvirkkil> ogra: You just say that because you like the name ;-)
[03:31] <ogra> mvirkkil, nope, i like the author ;)
[03:31] <ogra> mvirkkil, and his ideas
[03:32] <mvirkkil> ogra: And shouting shtoom every now and than, right?
[03:32] <dholbach> tsume: changing the font directories works
[03:32] <dholbach> brb
[03:32] <ogra> mvirkkil, yeah, that too
[03:32] <tsume> mmmm
[03:32] <mvirkkil> :P
[03:33] <mvirkkil> How about integrating contact information from gaim and shtoom all in to evolutions contact manager?
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[03:33] <mvirkkil> Worth a bounty proposal perhaps.
[03:33] <ogra> and make it searchable by beagle ;)
[03:34] <dholbach> re
[03:34] <tsume> dholbach: you are the mon :)
[03:34] <mvirkkil> I'll put it in to the wiki, so that it can drown in the noise.
=== mjg59 continues to be amazed at just how long it takes to build kernels
[03:34] <ogra> mjg59, dont build them on laptops ;-P
[03:34] <dholbach> tsume: works for you again?
[03:34] <ogra> (except you cluster them ;) )
[03:35] <tsume> dholbach: yes
[03:35] <dholbach> tsume: ROCK!
[03:35] <mjg59> ogra: My laptops are (by far) the fastest machines I have...
[03:35] <zul> mjg59: you arent building all of it are you?
[03:35] <tsume> dholbach: should make a quick-fix script for the people who need thier machine running
[03:36] <tsume> mjg59: 1.7 P-M 512MB :)
[03:36] <tsume> mjg59: laptop power :)
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[03:36] <ogra> tsume, be sure it will change again during the next 24h, so a script wont help a lot
[03:37] <mjg59> zul: Full 386 build
[03:37] <zul> mjg59: ah
[03:37] <mjg59> tsume: Yeah, that's what I'm using. It's still slow.
[03:38] <mjg59> Ooh, there we go
[03:38] <tsume> mjg59: its really fast here
[03:38] <mjg59> It's on to building the source package now
[03:38] <ogra> mjg59, cluster them ;)
[03:38] <mjg59> ogra: Not a bad idea...
[03:38] <tsume> mjg59: even my nvidia 5200 Go card.. I get 2230 fps
[03:38] <thom> it's the kernel-patch package that really hurts
[03:38] <mjg59> tsume: Oh, it's fast, but building stock kernel takes a long time
[03:39] <zul> takes me about 45 minutes for 686
[03:39] <mjg59> There's a *lot* of drivers
[03:39] <tsume> mjg59: which lappie you have?
[03:39] <mjg59> tsume: This is an HP6220
[03:39] <ogra> mjg59, iirc there once was a beowulf koppix cd you just have to boot from  it and it attaches itself to the master you set up before on another knoppix
[03:39] <tsume> are most of the drivers built in kernel?
[03:39] <tsume> or are modules?
[03:39] <zul> mdoules
[03:39] <mjg59> tsume: No, mostly modules. 
[03:39] <mjg59> Yay
[03:39] <mjg59> "Building package linux-image-2.6.12-1-386"
[03:40] <mjg59> Oh bugger off kernel-wedge
[03:40] <tsume> I want 2.6.12.... :(
=== tsume wants a kernel not gcc3 built :)
[03:40] <pitti> sjoerd: here? (it's urgent)
[03:40] <ogra> http://bofh.be/clusterknoppix/
[03:40] <tsume> brb
[03:41] <tsume> cant stand bosses computer, it runs windows
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[03:43] <tsume> heh, microsoft's patent recently is stupid
[03:43] <chiefofthejojos> which one?
[03:43] <tsume> like its going to stop me from using the features or placing them in my programs anyway :)
[03:43] <tsume> chiefofthejojos: read troll.
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[03:44] <chiefofthejojos> sorry, I just got here
[03:44] <tsume> chiefofthejojos: they've patented the features in email clients, like click to reply, copy email to clipboard, etc
[03:44] <pitti> tsume: seriously????
[03:44] <tsume> pitti: thats what the patent abstract says
[03:45] <tsume> pitti: I never follow patents anyway, only the GPL :)
[03:45] <chiefofthejojos> omg that's stupid
[03:45] <pitti> tsume: and they got that approved?
[03:45] <tsume> pitti: the troll dot story says so..
[03:45] <trulux> pitti: patch finished
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: nice, then I can build another version
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: still against 2.6.11?
[03:46] <trulux> pitti: I was about to do it in the hard way (using a helper function), but ifdef's are dirty but work fine
[03:46] <tsume> patents can be revoked if its for the good of everybody
[03:46] <trulux> pitti: yep, had no time to stack 2.6.12
[03:46] <trulux> hand't time, sorry
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: no worries
[03:46] <pitti> trulux: I port it, that's easy
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[03:47] <pitti> trulux: where can I get it?
[03:48] <trulux> pitti: dcc
[03:48] <pitti> trulux: might not work, just try
[03:48] <dholbach> tsume: do the normal ctrl-<something> short cuts work for you with the new xserver?
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[03:49] <tsume> dholbach: ctrl-alt-f1 works fine here
[03:49] <tsume> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/05/18/1222247.shtml?tid=155&tid=109&tid=95&tid=17
[03:49] <trulux> pitti: seems not working
[03:49] <dholbach> tsume: and stuff like ctrl-w (for close), ctrl-e (in evolution for expunge) or ctrl-a in gaim for accounts?
[03:49] <trulux> pitti: .... I can't send it by email right now
[03:50] <pitti> trulux: I didn't get anything... put it on a webpage?
[03:50] <dholbach> tsume: every ctrl-something does the same (per application)
[03:50] <trulux> pitti: just tuxedo-es.org, still recovering
[03:50] <tsume> dholbach: ctrl-c,       ctrl-v work for me too
[03:51] <dholbach> hrmhrmhrmhrmhrm
[03:51] <tsume> ctrl-q for exiting kde apps, and ctrl-w for closing the ff tabs ;)
[03:51] <tsume> dholbach: what is it doing on you machines?
[03:52] <tsume> grief.. I swear AA is going to make me go blind
[03:52] <tsume> sometimes I really dislike AA
[03:52] <dholbach> ctrl-w (which would close a tab) fires up the connect-to-server dialog in xchat
[03:52] <dholbach> ctrl-a (for accounts) behaves like ctrl-b in gaim
[03:53] <tsume> dholbach: ctrl-w in xchat works here
[03:54] <trulux> pitti: mail?
[03:54] <pitti> trulux: martin@piware.de
[03:54] <tsume> ..
[03:55] <tsume> what in the world are wrong with my fonts, theres a shadow of grey beneath them
[03:55] <tsume> makes them look all fuzzy
[03:55] <thom> guys, this is thoroughly off topic for ubuntu-devel
[03:57] <trulux> pitti: sent to ubuntu.com
[03:58] <mvo> Riddell: does kde depend on libhal? or is it planed to depend on it in the future? (for media change events and stuff like that)
[03:59] <ogra> mvo, probably for dbus ?
[04:01] <pitti> trulux: didn't work. Did you use martin.pitt@ubuntu.com?
[04:01] <pitti> trulux: ah, now I got it
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[04:03] <ogra> pitti, btw, ogra_d is ogra at the desktop :)
[04:03] <ogra> you asked ...
[04:03] <pitti> ah :-)
[04:04] <Riddell> mvo: kdebase-kio-plugins depends libhal-storage0, libhal0
[04:05] <pitti> Riddell: uh, btw, could you port that to the new dbus and hal API?
[04:05] <mjg59> Oh cock
=== mjg59 watches the entire kernel get rebuilt after adding some acpi patches
[04:06] <trulux> pitti: bbl, class
[04:06] <pitti> trulux: I rebuild a kernel and test it
[04:07] <Riddell> pitti: already have done in breezy 
[04:07] <pitti> cool
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[04:08] <Riddell> not well tested, suspect it doesn't work, will look again after c++ transition
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[04:12] <^rob^> hey ogra: have you played around with OS X's disk utility and volume selector widget/
=== tsume thinks he'll make his own damn portable mail client :P
[04:12] <ogra> ^rob^, nope, i have no OS X around....
[04:12] <^rob^> ogra: ahh, I'll lend you a VNC session for a few days if you'd like ;)
[04:13] <^rob^> although unfotunately I don't have an IPKVM so you couldn't step through the install
[04:13] <ogra> ^rob^, ah, you mean for the GraphicalPartitioningTool ?
[04:13] <^rob^> http://s87840517.onlinehome.us/pearpc.html has some good screenshots
[04:13] <^rob^> also for Experss
[04:13] <^rob^> err Express
[04:14] <ogra> yep, thats what GraphicalPartitioningTool is for
[04:14] <^rob^> In OS X you don't have to see all the extra options if you have a suitable volume you are willing to overwrite
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=== ogra sees the OS X installer for the first time....
[04:15] <Dilago_> hi for all
[04:16] <ogra> that thing is cool,  but asks way to many questions...
[04:17] <Mithrandir> hi ogra
[04:17] <^rob^> ogra: it only takes you to the disk tool selection if you don't have a suitable volum
[04:17] <^rob^> actually it has a button at the bottom that says "options" i think and you click it and the disk tool opens
[04:17] <^rob^> so if you have no usable options it just says No volumes found and you click the button
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[04:18] <ogra> hey Mithrandir 
[04:18] <^rob^> ogra: it's the same disk utility that you get inside OS X too
[04:18] <^rob^> although I had trouble with my 3.5 RAID
[04:19] <^rob^> I wanted to try a mirroring floppy array over USB but it wouldn't work ;)
[04:19] <ogra> ^rob^, its similar to what we plan to do http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalPartitioningTool
[04:19] <^rob^> more seriously I have a 5-drive SATA raid-enclosure + card + drives OTW
[04:19] <^rob^> $1600 for TB aint a bad price!
[04:20] <^rob^> gparted's gui is just nowhere as clear as OS X's
[04:20] <ogra> read what we'll do ;)
[04:21] <^rob^> "Device names shalt not appear unless it be in a tooltip"
[04:22] <ogra> hmm, good suggestion
[04:22] <dholbach> bbl
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[04:47] <mjg59> Grah. The upstream acpi patch still breaks various hotkey drivers.
[04:49] <DanielN> has anybody tried to run qemu-launcher yet?
[04:54] <luis_> seb128: let us try over here :)
[04:54] <seb128> yep?
[04:56] <luis_> would it be possible to package sabayon such that a sabayon client would not require xnest, etc.?
[04:56] <seb128> sure
[04:57] <seb128> any idea on what to split and how and why? :)
[04:57] <maswan> elmo: Ok, what is really the issue is that we are hitting max memory limits for the token manager. We're working on it though.
[04:57] <seb128> if there is a good reason and you have an idea on how/what to split let me know
[04:58] <seb128> (away for a few min)
[04:59] <luis_> seb128: well, not sure on the what/how; haven't played enough to be sure. But the why offhand is that installing sabayon installed (among other things) kernel headers onto my liveCD :) and I can imagine an admin seeing xnest as an extraneous tool that client boxes shouldn't have on it
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[05:01] <ogra> wohoo
[05:01] <ogra> isolinux: Extremely broken BIOS detected .....
[05:02] <DanielN> :>
[05:08] <tsume> ogra: hey, that looks fun!
[05:09] <ogra> hmm, 
[05:09] <tsume> hmm I thought most linux devels were kids. I was expecting.. "Totally broken BIOS detected" :)
[05:09] <ogra> nothing boots here....
[05:10] <Kamion> tsume: hardly
[05:10] <ogra> probably rather have kids ;)
[05:10] <tsume> Kamion: I've seen some really childish people develop for linux
[05:11] <tsume> Kamion: the linux userland tools developer(the maintainer of ps, etc)
[05:11] <Kamion> tsume: the childish ones are noisy, hardly surprising
[05:11] <seb128> luis_: yeah, I can imagine the reason, I just want to split it correctly :)
[05:11] <luis_> <nod>
[05:11] <seb128> luis_: and to split correctly I need to know what users are expecting from the split
[05:11] <Kamion> and Andries has been around since at least the early 1990s so I rather doubt he's legally a minor any more
[05:12] <Kamion> er, actually, the ps maintainer is Albert, not Andries, sorry - or at least one of the procps maintainers, the situation there is confusing
[05:12] <luis_> seb128: I'm expecting that 'machine that I create policies on' and 'machine that I deploy policies on' are distinct entities which might be the same machine, but most likely are not (in any kind of large-scale deployment)
[05:13] <tsume> Kamion: I don't care for his name. His replies are childish.
[05:15] <seb128> luis_: and "xnest" is an issue for "clients"?
[05:16] <seb128> they probably run xfree and GNOME, xnest is not a big deal imho :)
=== luis_ ponders
[05:18] <luis_> (given that the kernel headers were a false positive, I blame apt :)
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[05:21] <seb128> luis_: usually when I'm not convinced for a split I don't split and wait for bugs ... if somebody feel a bug with good arguements I split then :)
[05:21] <Kamion> tsume: I was trying to work out who it was you were talking about, since the two descriptions you gave of him do not match. :-)
[05:22] <Kamion> tsume: when you say things like "most linux devels", you should expect free software developers you're talking to to wonder who you're actually talking about. :-)
[05:22] <ogra> especially in a linux channel ;)
[05:23] <luis_> seb128: totally reasonable
[05:23] <luis_> I'll play some more and get back to you
[05:24] <seb128> ok, thanks
[05:25] <tsume> Kamion: okay then, most of the noisy linux devels ;)
[05:25] <zyga> hello
[05:25] <zyga> is something going on with xorg ATM?
[05:25] <Kamion> zyga: yes
[05:25] <zyga> Kamion: it's being split?
[05:25] <Kamion> zyga: right
=== luis_ attempts to focus on finishign the liveCD with sabayon-based config
=== zyga is addicted to updates
[05:26] <zyga> I just broke my x stuff then, oh well - framebuffer looks good enough
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[05:26] <tsume> zyga: fonts are located elsewhere
[05:27] <tsume> zyga: check xorg.conf, make sure you font paths are correct
[05:27] <zyga> tsume: I've noticed that
[05:28] <tsume> zyga: if you know the answer, why are you asking?
[05:28] <zyga> tsume: what's really ugly are depentencies, I guess I'll wait
[05:28] <zyga> tsume: I wanted to be sure
[05:28] <zyga> dependencies even
[05:31] <tja> is it 6.9 or 7.0 that's going to be in breezy?
[05:31] <tja> x.org, that is..
[05:31] <thom> tja: 7.0 when it's released
[05:31] <tsume> Kamion: I must just have a habit of running into all the assholes of the world :)
[05:31] <tja> nice
[05:31] <tja> thom: it was the modular version?
[05:32] <thom> yes
[05:38] <zyga> thanks for information and all hard work :-)
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[05:46] <mkde> anyone ever used html2pot?
[05:46] <doko> seb128: it looks like the build of tagtool is broken, it uses gcc for linking, not g++
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[05:47] <seb128> doko: weird, that's a C app ... it uses cpp libs?
[05:48] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tagtool/0.12.1-1ubuntu2/ 
[05:48] <doko> id3libsomething
[05:48] <seb128> builds are fine
[05:48] <seb128> what is b0rked/where ?
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[05:49] <doko> obviously I missed to put it on the list of frozen apps. it's now linked against libstd++6, but the lib is built against 5.
[05:49] <seb128> the lib??
[05:49] <seb128> apt-cache showsrc tagtool
[05:49] <seb128> Package: tagtool
[05:49] <seb128> Binary: tagtool
[05:50] <seb128> 
[05:50] <seb128> what are you talking about?
[05:50] <seb128> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.5.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0), libogg0 (>= 1.1.2), libvorbis0a (>= 1.1.0), libvorbisfile3 (>= 1.1.0), libxml2 (>= 2.6.17
[05:50] <seb128> 
[05:50] <seb128> no cpp afaik
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[05:51] <seb128> hum, the new version has cpp, weird
[05:52] <tarvid> stumbling through an ubuntu server install, it's up but what's next?
[05:52] <tarvid> how do i run debconf?
[05:52] <Kamion> for what?
[05:52] <Kamion> debconf is a backend
[05:53] <tarvid> in my mail, i get a message syaing debconf will set up the rest of the packages i want - apache - mysql - pgsql ...
[05:53] <tarvid> what's the front end
[05:53] <Kamion> what are you trying to do exactly?
[05:54] <tarvid> set up a web server with apache2, mysql, postgresql, php
[05:54] <Kamion> if you want to revisit the debconf configuration of a package that's already installed, use dpkg-reconfigure
[05:54] <Kamion> but debconf is not a tool that will help you install new packages. use aptitude.
[05:55] <tarvid> if there is a wizard, i want to run it, otherwise i'll just start banging apt-get
[05:55] <Kamion> (#ubuntu is probably better for this, btw ...)
[05:55] <Kamion> there is no wizard.
[05:55] <tarvid> would be neat if there were a server section
[05:56] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerInstallation is related
[05:56] <mkde> i'm trying to port ubuntuguide to a pot file using html2pot so that it might be able to go into rosetta for translation. So far i'm getting a bizarre error. can anyone help? http://pastebin.ca/12056
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[06:08] <ogra_d> doko, seb128 seems to have objections aginst the verbiste lib renaming, do we want to discuss that before i upload ?
[06:08] <carlos> mkde, that looks like a bug in the tool that prevents to use only one message instead of two when the same string appears twice
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[06:08] <mkde> carlos, hmm, i checked the line numbers in the html, there aren't that many lines!
[06:09] <doko> seb128: what's wrong with it?
[06:09] <seb128> I don't get the need to rename it, nothing use it
[06:09] <seb128> out of verbiste which is the same source package
[06:09] <carlos> mkde, it's not a problem with the .html file, but the tmp file used by the tool
[06:09] <carlos> mkde, /tmp/html2pot.3
[06:10] <mkde> carlos, oh yeah
[06:10] <mkde> carlos, damn
[06:10] <mkde> carlos, i'll see if I can get in touch with the person who maintains the tool, if there is one
[06:11] <carlos> mkde, ok, is it based on the KDE tool or the one from GNOME?
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[06:11] <carlos> mkde, you can always contact the maitainers of the po2xml tool (whatever is it based on)
[06:11] <pitti_> trulux: sorry, I busted the kernel build, have to start all over again
=== hunger is exited to see the X-transition in breezy!
[06:12] <mkde> carlos, gnome i suppose
[06:13] <carlos> mkde, python or C++?
[06:13] <carlos> that's the easier way to know it :-)
[06:14] <mkde> carlos, i don't speak either ;) http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/html2pot-po2html/index.html
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[06:14] <seb128> carlos: what's the discussion about?
[06:15] <carlos> seb128, html2pot command
[06:15] <mkde> seb128, i'm trying to make a pot from the ubuntuguide html
[06:16] <carlos> mkde, dude, that's not related to KDE or GNOME tools :-)
[06:16] <carlos> mkde, it's done with shell!
[06:16] <carlos> and awk
[06:16] <mkde> yeah
[06:16] <mkde> maybe i'll try another tool
[06:17] <seb128> use gnome-doc-utils
[06:17] <mkde> seb128, you know if it does html2pot?
[06:17] <seb128> html? 
[06:17] <seb128> xml yep
[06:18] <mkde> is there a difference between xhtml and xml?
[06:18] <seb128> xhtml should be correct xml
[06:19] <sladen> mkde: XHTML is an application of XML
[06:19] <sladen> mkde: bit like Ford is a make of Car
[06:19] <mkde> so hopefully the tool will work...
[06:20] <mkde> i tried the kde xml2pot tool that we use in the docteam, it didn't work... maybe i'll try the gnome one now ;)
=== luis_ is now known as lu|away
[06:21] <Riddell> mkde is a confusing nickname when you have a highlight set on 'kde'
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[06:22] <mkde> Riddell, sorry!
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[06:23] <Riddell> well, don't change it on my account :)
[06:23] <mattheweast> Riddell, no problem, my main nick is mdke *points*
[06:26] <Mithrandir> a friend of mine talked about how useful it would be if the live cd had "scan all partitions for viruses" as some kind of an option.
[06:27] <Mithrandir> it doesn't really matter for Linux per se, but it could mean we'd be part of the default cd set to be handed out at computer parties and such and it would be a nice way to get people to at least boot the live cd.
[06:30] <zul> but is there any good anti-virus software for linux?
[06:30] <Treenaks> zul: clamav mostly
[06:30] <mattheweast> seb128, i tried xml2po (i think that is the utility with gnome-doc-utils?) and it just said "segmentation fault"
[06:31] <Treenaks> zul: there isn't really a need for "virus scanners" as the windows world knows them
[06:31] <seb128> mattheweast: backtrace?
[06:31] <mattheweast> ok
[06:31] <Treenaks> zul: (because there ARE no viruses)
[06:31] <seb128> mattheweast: please open a bug with the document you try to convert, the version and the backtrace
[06:32] <mattheweast> seb128, is a backtrace obtained with "strace"? sorry, haven't done much of this before
[06:32] <zyga> mattheweast: use gdb
[06:33] <zyga> mattheweast: run the program via gdb, gdb --args ./foo-bar arg arg arg
[06:33] <zyga> mattheweast: after it crashes just type: bt
[06:33] <zyga> mattheweast: you may want to use tee as well 
[06:33] <seb128> mattheweast: no, gdb
[06:33] <mattheweast> hmm
[06:33] <mattheweast> ok i'll try
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[06:35] <mattheweast> so something like this?
[06:35] <mattheweast>  gdb --args xml2po index.html > testing.pot
[06:35] <zyga> mattheweast: no
[06:35] <mattheweast> :/
[06:36] <zyga> mattheweast: without this redirect 
[06:36] <mattheweast> the redirect is part of the command which is giving me the segfault
[06:36] <zyga> mattheweast: it works okay without the redirect?
[06:36] <mattheweast> i don't know
[06:36] <zyga> mattheweast: anyway, you don't want to redirect gdb
[06:36] <mattheweast> ok
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[06:37] <zyga> mattheweast: you can redirect that program but that's a bit more tricky
[06:37] <mattheweast> zyga, This GDB was configured as "i386-linux"..."/usr/bin/xml2po": not in executable format: File format not recognized
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[06:37] <zyga> mattheweast: hmmm, is that a shell script?
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[06:37] <mattheweast> zyga, python
[06:37] <zyga> mattheweast: argh..
[06:37] <mattheweast> #!/usr/bin/python2.4
[06:38] <zyga> mattheweast: then this will be more difficult ;] 
[06:38] <jnc> z'oh.  good luck to you guys on a successful gcc4 migration
[06:38] <zyga> mattheweast: does it use any external programs?
=== jnc pets his down'd amd64 breezy box
[06:38] <trulux> back from doing some lockpicking
[06:38] <trulux> pitti: hey
[06:38] <ogra_d> jnc, dont upgrade ;)
[06:38] <mattheweast> zyga, i don't speak python, but i presume so, its pretty long
[06:39] <zyga> mattheweast: you could try to fire up gdb and python
[06:39] <mattheweast> zyga, i think i'll try and find an alternative program
[06:39] <zyga> mattheweast: gdb --args `which python` /usr/bin/xml2po index.html
[06:39] <mattheweast> zyga, ok will try that
[06:40] <mattheweast> zyga, it seems better
[06:40] <mattheweast> its taken me to a gdb prompt
[06:40] <zyga> mattheweast: type: run
[06:40] <mattheweast> ok cool its faulted
[06:40] <mattheweast> bt?
[06:40] <jnc> ogra_d: d'oh
[06:40] <lu|away> seb128: BTW, the current packages + liveCD seem to work well, for minimal testcase
[06:40] <zyga> mattheweast: yes
[06:40] <mattheweast> zyga, how can i save the backtrace in a file do you know?
[06:41] <jnc> ogra_d: it was all well and good until i thought "hey, let's like, reboot y'know and see what happens"
[06:41] <lu|away> seb128: so thanks
[06:41] <jnc> heh
[06:41] <zyga> mattheweast: I use tee on the whole thing ;-)
[06:41] <lu|away> seb128: will test more soon
[06:41] <mattheweast> zyga, tee being?
[06:41] <zyga> mattheweast: if it's not too long just select and paste
[06:41] <ogra_d> jnc, lol
[06:41] <mattheweast> zyga, k
[06:41] <zyga> mattheweast: gdb --args .... | tee  foo.txt
[06:42] <mattheweast> zyga, its not long at all
[06:42] <zyga> mattheweast: then you have a backtrace, congratulations :-)
[06:42] <mattheweast> zyga, thanks very much indeed
[06:43] <zyga> mattheweast: you are welcome :)
[06:43] <mattheweast> now to file this bug
[06:44] <jnc> ogra_d: best guess to when X becomes usable again, less or more than a week?
[06:44] <ogra_d> less
=== jnc :)
[06:46] <mattheweast> seb128, am i filing the html2po bug in gnome.b.o?
[06:46] <mattheweast> not ubuntu.b.c right?
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[06:49] <Treenaks> b?
[06:50] <mattheweast> i mean bugzilla.ubuntu.com
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[06:51] <Treenaks> seb128: "Thanks to the magical seb, it has now been packaged," [luis villa about sabayon, on his blog] 
[06:52] <mattheweast> is that xchat-gnome?
[06:52] <mattheweast> seb128, ok i filed it in ubuntu bugzilla at #10935
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[06:56] <seb128> mkde: thanks
[06:56] <seb128> Treenaks: ah ah
[06:56] <mkde> seb128, tY
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[07:12] <elvirolo> hi all
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[07:13] <elvirolo> i'm currently using breezy (i386) and the X server is not starting up ... startx says it "could not open default font 'fixed'"
[07:13] <elvirolo> could anyone help me?
[07:14] <wasabi_> Did you install the server version?
[07:14] <wasabi_> Err... how did you install it?
[07:14] <wasabi_> You are missing x-window-system-core
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[07:15] <elvirolo> well, i've just installed it actually
[07:15] <zyga> elvirolo: x server is being updated ATM, you're out of luck
[07:15] <wasabi_> ahh.
[07:15] <zyga> elvirolo: It's going to take some time to finish the transition
[07:15] <elvirolo> zyga: oh, thanks :)
[07:15] <wasabi_> What's happening to it?
[07:15] <zyga> elvirolo: I'd use stable version for a moment if I were you
[07:15] <zyga> wasabi_: It's being split 
[07:15] <wasabi_> thought so.
=== wasabi_ claps
[07:15] <elvirolo> zyga: yeah, i've got a hoary installation too
[07:16] <elvirolo> zyga : how long is it going to take ... hours, days ?
=== zyga types via ssh from a currently windowless breezy box ;-)
[07:16] <zyga> elvirolo: days
[07:16] <elvirolo> zyga : ok thanks :)
[07:16] <zyga> elvirolo: note though that I'm just a information proxy
[07:16] <elvirolo> understood :-D
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[07:17] <elvirolo> thanks a lot, bye!
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[07:18] <wasabi_> hmm. i thought udev was not supposed to allow device names to change
[07:18] <jnc> it shouldn't
[07:18] <wasabi_> i added a new network card and my existing one became eth1 and new one became eth0
[07:18] <jnc> that's not udev
[07:18] <wasabi_> so network/interfaces was inaccurate
[07:18] <jnc> that's nameif
[07:18] <wasabi_> ?
[07:18] <jnc> /etc/mactab
[07:19] <wasabi_> /dev/eth0 and /dev/eth1.
[07:19] <jnc> oh?
[07:19] <jnc> i've never seen that before
[07:19] <ogra> wasabi_, use /etc/iftab for this
[07:19] <wasabi_> iftab has my old eth0 info in it
[07:19] <zyga> wasabi_: you have /dev/ethX ?
[07:19] <wasabi_> iftab is now inaccurate
[07:20] <mjg59> wasabi_: /dev/eth* shouldn't exist
[07:20] <wasabi_> oh sure nuff, you're right.
[07:20] <mjg59> Not if you're running Linux, at least
[07:20] <wasabi_> I had always thought they did. ;)
[07:20] <wasabi_> anyways, for whatever reason, this ifwhatever system didn't work. ;)
[07:20] <mjg59> iftab contains the MAC address and the interface name
[07:20] <zyga> wasabi_: I thought the opposite ;-)
[07:20] <mjg59> renameif should then ensure that the interfaces match that
[07:20] <wasabi_> admin@vm:~$ cat /etc/iftab
[07:20] <wasabi_> # This file assigns persistent names to network interfaces.  See iftab(5).
[07:20] <wasabi_> eth0 mac 00:e0:4c:b5:31:c3
[07:20] <wasabi_> admin@vm:~$ ifconfig eth0 | grep HW
[07:20] <wasabi_> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:0E:0C:76:39:6A
[07:21] <mjg59> wasabi_: Run ifrename?
[07:21] <wasabi_> interface busy....
[07:21] <wasabi_> hmmm... isn't this supposed to run at boot?
[07:21] <zyga> Warning: Interface name is `eth0' at line 2, can't be mapped reliably.
[07:21] <mjg59> Yes
[07:21] <zyga> why is this appearing, btw?
[07:21] <wasabi_> i can only assume it didn't run at boot, and now it's in use. ;0
[07:21] <zyga> it's this way for some time now
[07:22] <jnc> zyga: i notice that too
[07:22] <zyga> jnc: also this box has two nic's and /etc/iftab only show one 
[07:22] <wasabi_> this is a hoary system btw
[07:23] <jnc> zyga: have you configured the network devices using the GUI?
[07:23] <zyga> one is a pci card second is built into the motherboard (also a 'pci card' of course)
[07:23] <zyga> jnc: I don't remember really, is that important?
[07:23] <zyga> jnc: I might have
[07:23] <wasabi_> I certainly like the design of this ifrename system though. I was wondering if anything handled this.
[07:24] <wasabi_> Too bad it's not working. ;)
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[07:24] <jnc> zyga: i found network configuration from installer to be wrong, and needed to do it myself again
[07:24] <zyga> jnc: one is LAN other goes out, it's got some custom iptables stuff here and there but it works okay besides that
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[07:26] <wasabi_> interesting that I added this new interface and /etc/iftab didn't get it's mac
[07:29] <surak> hi all
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[07:49] <zyga> how can I get the data from the {debian,ubuntu}-popularity-contest?
[07:50] <dholbach> popcon.ubuntu.com
[07:50] <dholbach> same for debian
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[07:51] <zyga> dholbach: thanks
[07:51] <dholbach> de rien
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[07:55] <zyga> dholbach: french?
[07:55] <zyga> hmm 
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[07:56] <zyga> this is a very rainy and bad day indeed
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[07:59] <zyga> hmm does firefox understand .gz suffix and unzips automatically?
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[07:59] <zyga> the file has text/plain mimetype
[07:59] <zyga> but is a gzipped txt in reality
=== pitti bangs his head very, very hard
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[08:01] <zyga> dholbach: there are some 404 links there should I mail someone about it?
[08:01] <pitti> I tried to build a kernel on davis' breezy dchroot for 2 hours and now I find out that the make-kpkg in there got busted today... *sigh*
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[08:01] <pitti> trulux: now the new kernel is finally building...
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[08:02] <trulux> pitti: great
[08:05] <pitti> trulux: I'm building the kernel on Hoary now, I hope that this will work
=== pitti -> dinner
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[08:09] <trulux> pitti: great
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[08:11] <hunger> Anyone working on the init scripts to not always return [ ok ]  yet?
[08:12] <hunger> Not all do it, but powernowd and some other do and it is really annoying.
[08:12] <ogra> hunger, unplug your network cable and at least two of them will say [fail] 
[08:12] <ogra> ;)
[08:17] <hunger> ogra: powernowd never does, I opened a bugreport for that (incl. a patch that fixes the issue here).
[08:17] <ogra> great :)
[08:17] <hunger> ogra: I am sure there are some more... but I can not name names right now:-(
[08:18] <ogra> normally all services in main should use lsb by default....so for all main services you should see [ok/fail]  messages
[08:19] <doko> ogra, seb127: libverbiste0 depends on libstdc++5, so we have to rename the package
[08:19] <ogra> doko, thanks
[08:19] <hunger> ogra: Right. I see [ ok ] .
[08:19] <doko> oops, seb128: ^^^
[08:19] <hunger> ogra: ... even though the service never started ... 
[08:20] <hunger> ogra: Are there some guidelines on when to use which of the lsb-functions?
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[08:26] <hunger> ogra: The usage seems somewhat erratic... Is usage a log_success_msg, even though the exit code is != 0?
[08:27] <wasabi_> i guess im the only one who things the use of system uids sucks.
[08:27] <wasabi_> thinks
[08:28] <mjg59> wasabi_: ?
[08:28] <zyga> wasabi_: ?
[08:28] <zyga> :-)
[08:29] <wasabi_> oooh i love saying things that make people go "wtf"
[08:29] <wasabi_> the uids actually chosen for the users are not established. References to them are done on the basis of user name. That's my complaint. ;0
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[08:29] <mjg59> Uhm.
[08:29] <wasabi_> There is no established scoping for local system / remote uid allocation.
[08:29] <mjg59> Oh, I see.
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[08:30] <mjg59> No, that's done at the application level
[08:30] <wasabi_> Yeah, and, I think it sucks. ;0
[08:30] <mjg59> The only case where it really makes things miserable is over NFS
[08:30] <zyga> wasabi_: what I hate is different uid allocation across distros
[08:30] <wasabi_> NFS is a massive case.
[08:30] <mjg59> I think NFS4 makes this easier
[08:30] <wasabi_> How?
[08:30] <mjg59> By allowing user-level authentication
[08:30] <wasabi_> NFS doesn't make the allocation standard. That's something the admin has to decide.
[08:30] <wasabi_> ANd it's not just NFS. It's any large network that uses centralized 
[08:31] <wasabi_> users has to go thru this.
[08:31] <mjg59> No, it's not a problem with SMB
[08:31] <wasabi_> I know. Because there is a scoping for NT domains. ;)
[08:31] <mjg59> Well, no, it's not even that
[08:31] <wasabi_> There are assigned SIDs (uids) for local system accounts and remote ranges and allocation policies.
[08:31] <wasabi_> That every system on the network follows.
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[08:31] <mjg59> Once stuff is exported to the user rather than to the machine, you can negotiate uids
[08:31] <wasabi_> And all the UI conforms.
[08:32] <wasabi_> I've been thinking that a simple RFC defining masks on the 32 bit uid range would be all we'd need
[08:32] <wasabi_> basically that's all ms did with their sid space
[08:33] <wasabi_> It's like, just one more thing you have to think about when setting up a linux network vs a windows network
[08:33] <wasabi_> Windows you just plug it in and make a new user and it's done.
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[08:34] <hunger> wasabi: Using which RFC mechanismn?
=== wasabi_ shrugs.
[08:35] <wasabi_> im just saying, as an administrator, it sucks.
[08:36] <hunger> wasabi: You are right... but that there is no standard RFC mechanismn sucks just as much.
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[08:36] <wasabi_> We have the protocol level stuff standardized: LDAP + Kerberos... but there are a lot more considerations than just installing OpenLDAP to setting up a company's directory.
[08:37] <wasabi_> It'd be neat to have the UID/Ldap/Kerberos LAYOUTS standardized, so all distros could just plug into a network and start working.
[08:38] <hunger> wasabi: You could try for a freedesktop.org standard.
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[08:38] <hunger> wasabi: Even though that is somewhat out of scope.
[08:39] <Treenaks> isn't there PosixAccount or something?
[08:39] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[08:39] <wasabi_> But that doesn't define uid allocation policies.
[08:39] <Riddell> Kamion: no sign of knetworkconf in hoary-updates
[08:40] <elmo> it won't build until the CXX transition is over
[08:41] <Amaranth> that reminds me, how long do you suppose that will take?
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[08:45] <seb128> doko: why not just doing a rebuild?
[08:45] <mdke> seb128, re that gnome-doc-utils bug, i noticed that the .html file is transitional xhtml, might that be the cause of the crash?
[08:46] <doko> seb128: because it breaks partial upgrades
[08:46] <seb128> in any case it should not crash
[08:46] <seb128> doko: I don't get why but if you think that's needed
[08:46] <seb128> that's like an app, nothing use it, we are not changing all the apps names
[08:48] <doko> you're sure, that this remains the only package until we sync?
[08:48] <seb128> I'm sure nothing use it yep
[08:48] <seb128> but 1 package will not make a big difference
[08:48] <seb128> rename it if you prefer
[08:49] <doko> no, one package less to sync. I do care ;)
[08:49] <doko> ogra: ^^^
[08:49] <seb128> he he
[08:50] <ogra> oki
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[08:55] <Kamion> Riddell: elmo did say yesterday it wasn't my problem any more, you know :)
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[08:56] <Riddell> right
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[09:08] <pitti> argh, new X.org's keyboard is totally b0rken
[09:08] <seb128> yeah
[09:08] <seb128> just 2 GNOME guys saying me than ctrl-<something> open a new epiphany window
[09:09] <seb128> I've not updated yet but I'm just blaming xorg atm :)
[09:09] <seb128> pitti: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10937, feel free to comment/reassign :)
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[09:11] <pitti> seb128: really that bug? e. g. in gnome-terminal Alt+1 works for me, but not Alt+2, Alt+3 etc.
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: in xchat, Ctrl+W behaves like Ctrl+S
[09:11] <seb128> that's Alt
[09:11] <seb128> Ctrl- are messed
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[09:11] <seb128> hum, nm
[09:11] <seb128> I've not updated yet
[09:12] <seb128> pitti: crevette is the guy who sent the epiphany bug
[09:12] <crevette> hello 
[09:12] <seb128> hey crevette 
[09:12] <crevette> hey hey seb128 
[09:12] <crevette> i'm using Xorg 6.8.2-14
[09:13] <crevette> Do you need other informations?
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[09:13] <seb128> I don't think so, pitti has the issue too :)
[09:14] <pitti> seb128: dholbach too
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[09:14] <seb128> I think everybody
[09:14] <seb128> I've just not upgraded yet
[09:14] <seb128> and I don't want to now :p
[09:14] <luis_> hehe
[09:14] <luis_> needs to be an applet, sort of like the terror alert applet
[09:15] <luis_> 'breezy is green'
[09:15] <crevette> the -15 ois affected by this bug too ?
[09:15] <luis_> 'breezy is orange'
[09:15] <luis_> 'breezy is red'
[09:15] <crevette> :)
[09:15] <crevette> like "plan vigipirate" for frenhies
[09:15] <seb128> this week breezy is red for sure
[09:15] <seb128> CXX transition :)
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[09:16] <crevette> arg
[09:16] <crevette> nautilus is affected by this bug too
[09:17] <pitti> doko: tiff is FTBFS
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[09:17] <pitti> doko: due to your transition patch, I suppose
[09:17] <pitti> doko: since I have to add a security update, I'll care for it
[09:17] <trulux> pitti: do you know how to convert an .avi video into clean mpeg2?
[09:18] <pitti> trulux: mencoder?
[09:18] <crevette> bye bye
[09:18] <seb128> crevette: xorg is messed, no need to start counting how many apps will be screwed :)
[09:18] <trulux> pitti: maybe, how can I make it doing that?
[09:18] <crevette> seb128> ok
[09:18] <crevette> :)
[09:18] <pitti> trulux: no idea
[09:18] <trulux> pitti: btw, does the new patch work as expected?
[09:18] <doko> pitti: thanks, be sure to build it in an updated chroot ...
[09:18] <pitti> trulux: sorry, the kernel pacakge doesn't like me
[09:18] <trulux> any gui to rip files?
[09:18] <trulux> pitti: why?
[09:18] <crevette> I knew that when I decided to switch to breezy
[09:18] <crevette> :)
[09:18] <pitti> doko: why chroot? I have an up to date breezy
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[09:18] <trulux> pitti: what happens?
[09:19] <pitti> trulux: all my attempts to build that ()$%/$)%/ kernel with that )$(%/$)% build system were screwed so far
[09:19] <seb128> pitti: where is hidding dholbach?
[09:19] <trulux> err, because of my patch?
[09:19] <doko> pitti: ehh, it did build ok ...
[09:19] <pitti> trulux: in a breezy chroot, make-kpkg claims that it isn't in a kernel source directory, in a hoary dchroot it fails for another reason *sigh*
[09:19] <trulux> pitti: I hope it to work well :)
=== trulux got pearls.tuxedo-es.org working again
[09:19] <pitti> trulux: no, not because of your patch
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[09:20] <doko> pitti: an up to date breezy is not yet broken? interesting ...
[09:20] <trulux> pitti: OK, fine :)
[09:20] <Kamion> surak: hi - how goes it?
[09:20] <dilinger> pitti: aww, kernel build <3 ;)
[09:20] <pitti> doko: hmm, FTBFSses for me...
[09:21] <pitti> dh_install -plibtiff-opengl
[09:21] <pitti> cp: Aufruf von stat fr ./debian/tmp/usr/bin/tiffgt nicht mglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
[09:21] <pitti> dh_install: command returned error code 256
[09:21] <pitti> make: *** [binary-install/libtiff-opengl]  Fehler 1
[09:21] <doko> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tiff/3.7.2-2ubuntu1/
[09:21] <pitti> doko: yeah, I saw, and I ask myself which black magic you used
[09:21] <pitti> doko: OTOH the kernel doesn't like me on davis today, too
[09:22] <pitti> doko: so maybe I should just stop working for today...
[09:22] <zul> pitti: something like Error I dont know where the kernel image goes to...blah blah
[09:22] <surak> Kamion:
[09:22] <pitti> zul: on breezy dchroot on davis make-kpkg claims that debian/build/build-*/ is not a kernel source directory
[09:22] <surak> still being beated by a dead horse, which is fine :-)
[09:23] <pitti> zul: OTOH that worked fine yesterday
[09:23] <zul> yeah its doing the same for me
[09:23] <Kamion> surak: any dead horse I can help (bring back to life|kill harder), whichever's appropriate? :)
[09:23] <doko> pitti: that's really an up to date chroot from two hours ago? gcc --version? 
[09:23] <pitti> zul: then I tried hoary dchroot and just to build one flavor, which failed as well ("cp: cannot stat /debian/firmware/[[:lower:] ] *")
[09:24] <pitti> doko: it's my normal desktop system
[09:24] <zul> meh...it bails on my when i do a fakeroot debian/rules clean in the kernel directory
[09:24] <pitti> doko: anyway, I build the -ubuntu1 version now (for -ubuntu2 I only added a patch to debian/patches, but let's see)
=== hunger wonders how often he updated X11 today.
[09:24] <pitti> zul: becase the ABI files are missing?
[09:25] <pitti> zul: I seriously hope that the kernel builds in the hoary dchroot
[09:25] <surak> nothing that hard, just things that take time...
[09:25] <zul> pitti: i dont think so
[09:25] <Kamion> surak: ok, shout or mail cjwatson@ubuntu.com if you need help; I'm going to be out most of this evening, but will read scrollback
[09:25] <pitti> doko: ubuntu1 fails for me as well *sigh*
[09:26] <pitti> dilinger: hm, what do you mean?
[09:26] <doko> davis/breezy?
[09:26] <surak> thanks a lot, good night
[09:26] <pitti> doko: no, my own box
[09:27] <doko> pitti: gcc --version? 
[09:27] <pitti> gcc (GCC) 4.0.1 20050517 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.0-7ubuntu6)
[09:27] <doko> hmm, i386?
[09:27] <pitti> doko: but "cp: Aufruf von stat fr ./debian/tmp/usr/bin/tiffgt nicht mglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden" doesn't sound like a compiler bug
[09:27] <zul> doko: same here
[09:27] <pitti> doko: yes
[09:28] <doko> ok, then please blame keybuk ;-)
[09:28] <pitti> doko: I rather think the buildd is outdated, not my box
[09:28] <pitti> doko: alright :-)
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[09:30] <jnc> i guess font paths have changed in the most recent X11 pushes
[09:30] <jnc> from /usr/lib/fonts now it is /usr/share/fonts
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[09:30] <jnc> also font server is not happy with me ;/
[09:30] <jnc> :)
[09:30] <pitti> broken badger
[09:31] <hunger> jnc: I think that is a deliberate change:-)
[09:31] <jnc> X11 is back and working for me at least, after a bit of tweaking in the xorg.conf
[09:31] <seb128> good time to break GNOME, nobody will ever notice :p
[09:31] <jnc> hehe
[09:31] <hunger> jnc: Do you already have the latest round of updates?
[09:31] <seb128> s/ever/even/
[09:31] <jnc> i think so
[09:32] <hunger> jnc: Good, I am just downloading that;-)
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: I'm at the point to change to my laptop, which has still hoary (just newer kernel + libc) ...
[09:32] <jnc> hunger: you'll want to modify your xorg.conf and change the references from /usr/lib/fonts  ->  /usr/share/fonts
[09:33] <jnc> i'm still having trouble with this USB hub
[09:33] <jnc> if i boot up from cold (no power)  and my keyboard is plugged into usb hub external, then it will not be recognized by the system
[09:33] <seb128> pitti: :(
[09:33] <jnc> if i have it plugged into a port on the front of this computer, it will work though from cold
[09:34] <jnc> if during the boot process i unplug the hub, and after "hotplug" suceeds, i plug the hub in (with keyboard), it recognizes
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[09:34] <jnc> this was fixed briefly in hoary and then broke again when the release came
[09:34] <jnc> i haven't the faintest idea of what's causing it
[09:35] <jnc> it's a minor inconvenience though
[09:35] <jnc> i don't know if it is a bug or what
[09:35] <hunger> jnc: It does not sound like a feature to me.
=== jnc grins
[09:35] <pitti> trulux: kernel builds again, 1/6 flavors are done
[09:36] <pitti> trulux: i. e. I'll try it tomorrow morning when this crackish thing hopefully built correctly
=== pitti feels underloved today
[09:36] <jnc> i've got 2.6.12-1-amd64-k8  
[09:36] <jnc> my sata optical drive works again
[09:36] <jnc> kind of happy about that
[09:37] <jnc> pitti: is that the flavor you built?
[09:37] <pitti> jnc: I'm building powerpc, with trulux' /tmp race protection patch
[09:38] <hunger> What is the purpose of the xorg changes? Get rid of /usr/X11R6?
[09:38] <jnc> ah
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[09:45] <pitti> seb128: interesting, in gnome-terminal Alt+n always behaves like Alt+1, but in firefox it works...
[09:46] <seb128> have you restarted firefox?
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: I restarted gdm after dist-upgrade
[09:46] <seb128> ok
[09:46] <seb128> weird
[09:47] <seb128> no, iz not gtk bog
[09:47] <pitti> but...
[09:47] <pitti> seb128: it works in xchat, too!!!
[09:47] <seb128> hum
[09:47] <seb128> xfiles
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[09:55] <seb128> hum, anybody knows what are the /etc/passwd ",,," for?
[09:55] <surak> Kamion: are you there?
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: I think these are required for doing NIS lookups
[09:57] <seb128> I don't get why ":Hardware abstraction layer,,,:" for hal
[09:57] <pitti> ah, those, I thought you meant a completely "empty" line
[09:57] <seb128> I understand the empty one :)
[09:57] <seb128> I've a bug with sabayon
[09:57] <seb128> it uses the field to display the username
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: that's the GECOS field, the other parts are probably for room number, phone, etc.
[09:58] <seb128> ok, some lines use that, some other don't
[09:59] <seb128> >>> pw = pwd.getpwnam ("hal")
[09:59] <seb128> >>> pw.pw_gecos
[09:59] <seb128> 'Hardware abstraction layer,,,'
[09:59] <seb128> that sucks :p
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: split it at , and skip empty fields :-)
[10:00] <seb128> yeah, I guess I'll do this
[10:00] <seb128> I guess than "," is not a legal char for the name? :)
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: see passwd(5)
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: "Three additional values may be present in the comment field. ... These fields are separated from each other and from any other comment field by a comma."
[10:02] <seb128> thanks
[10:02] <Treenaks> pitti: what if my name contains a comma? :)
[10:02] <seb128> b0rked name, change name :p
[10:02] <pitti> Treenaks: I guess you are busted then and should sue your parents :-)
[10:02] <tsume> hal reminds me of the computer from a space odyssey
[10:02] <hunger> Treenaks: Then you have to get used to get manhandled by unix systems.
[10:02] <tsume> is hal going to take over my computer?
[10:02] <Treenaks> hunger: hm..
[10:03] <pitti> tsume: too late, it already did
[10:03] <tsume> pitti: nooo! ;)
[10:03] <pitti> tsume: although I derooted it, so it actually can't any more
[10:03] <tsume> pitti: what if hal gets the technology to reintegrate and destroy all mandkind? 
[10:04] <pitti> tsume: look in debian/patches/ :-)
=== tsume chuckles
[10:04] <surak> tsume: This ony cannot say you "dave, I'm afraid"
[10:05] <hunger> tsume: That is the good thing about open source: Nobody can sneak in instructions that will drive your computer mad without someone else noticing sooner or later.
[10:05] <tsume> hunger: how much you wanna bet ;)
[10:05] <hunger> tsume: Pretty much... since I did not specify "sooner or later";-)
[10:05] <tsume> hunger: some people use CVS version of software, and compile it. CVS is the key to sneaking in trojans
[10:06] <surak> This reminds me kernel-list about NSA releasing SELinux :-)
[10:06] <pitti> hunger: just try breezy and watch your computer go mad :-)
[10:06] <pitti> hunger: or look at my face, I'm already mad after the last hours
[10:06] <hunger> pitti: So far it is behaving pretty well....
[10:06] <hunger> pitti: and sooner or later breezy will be stable;-)
[10:10] <pitti> doko: ah, I know the reason for the tiff FTBFS, of course it's an X.org bug
[10:10] <pitti> doko: "tiffgt-tiffgt.o(.text+0x8a2):/home/martin/ubuntu/tiff/tiff-3.7.2/build-tree/tiff-3.7.2/tools/tiffgt.c:117: undefined reference to `glutInitDisplayMode'"
[10:11] <pitti> doko: so its
[10:11] <pitti> not Keybuk, but daniels
[10:12] <doko> ok, add that to the build-dep instead of the xlibmesa-glut-dev: libglu-dev-xorg (>= 6.8.2-15)
[10:12] <doko> pitti: ^^^
[10:13] <pitti> "checking for GLUT library... no"
[10:13] <pitti> ^^ from configure
[10:13] <pitti> doko: yeah, will do
[10:14] <pitti> argh
[10:15] <pitti> why does libglu-dev-xorg depends on x-window-system-core??
[10:15] <pitti> the buildds will have fun
[10:17] <uniq> ok.. xorg tells me it cant find the fixed font.. any hints on how to get it back and rocking? 
[10:17] <uniq> *reading back*
[10:18] <fabbione> uniq: breezy?
[10:18] <uniq> yup.
[10:18] <uniq> fontpath.
[10:18] <fabbione> than we know. please wait the next couple of days for things to be settled properly
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[10:20] <uniq> fabbione: no evilhack workaround around? 
[10:20] <fabbione> no.
[10:21] <fabbione> people have been told not to upgrade breezy for a few days
[10:21] <fabbione> no time to work on workarounds
[10:21] <fabbione> we need to get proper stuff done first
[10:21] <uniq> ok.. pinning here i gome.
[10:21] <uniq> come.
[10:24] <pitti> doko: doesn't help
[10:26] <fabbione> pitti: check the new x*-dev packages from xtrans and x11proto<something>
[10:27] <seb128> luis_: sabayon 0.18 available
[10:27] <luis_> seb128: danke
[10:27] <seb128> luis_: but you probably don't want to update xorg or other stuff :)
[10:27] <luis_> yeah
[10:27] <luis_> I hear;)
[10:27] <doko> pitti: wuhaaa...
[10:27] <pitti> doko: anyway, I'll find out
[10:28] <pitti> probably tomorrow, I'm falling asleep
[10:29] <seb128> 'night pitti 
[10:29] <pitti> night guys, sleep well everybody
[10:29] <mvo> night pitti 
[10:37] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync pyblosxom, ok to override ubuntu changes.
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[11:10] <KaiL> fabbione: still awake?
[11:15] <surak> must the openoffice icons on live-cd change their default names according with the locale set at boot time?
[11:17] <thom> surak: if their .desktop files have been translated to your language, yes
[11:17] <surak> thom: It was a rethorical question :-) In fact, it seems it had stopped working on 5.10. Let me check on 5.04
[11:18] <surak> thom: No... 5.04 also shows the .desktops not in native language.
[11:19] <surak> thom: another question: is openoffice.org running from live english only?
[11:19] <thom> surak: not sure how the sizes worked out; i think we were trying to get as many translations as possible
[11:21] <surak> Are ooo .desktop files maintained by ooo people, debian people, ubuntu, gnome, who?
[11:21] <thom> yes ;-)
[11:21] <surak> ??
[11:22] <thom> probably a combination  of ooo, debian and ubuntu folk
[11:22] <surak> ah ok
[11:22] <surak> So dunno who send the pt_BR translations for them :-(
[11:23] <surak> the more I work, the worse my english gets
[11:26] <surak> thom: is ok that I send the .desktop with corrected pt_BR translations for you?
[11:27] <thom> absolutely; file a bug in bugzilla with them :-) (you never need to ask about translations; we desperately need them :-) )
[11:28] <thom> (and dude, whenever i see non-native speakers say how bad their english appears to be, i always feel bad that i can't speak their language at all)
[11:28] <surak> my english is not all that bad... even my portuguese gets work as long as the night comes :-)
[11:28] <surak> worse!
[11:29] <surak> not work!
[11:29] <thom> heh :-)
[11:29] <eruin> heh, I know non-native english speakers with better english skills than myself (norwegian/british citizen)
[11:29] <surak> :-)
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[11:37] <surak> thom: no... only ooo-l10n-en is installed :-(
[11:40] <eruin> what would cause keyboard shortcuts like ctrl+c, ctrl+v to get toasted in gnome?
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[11:49] <surak> thom: odd. there are two files .desktop files for each openoffice.org app - and none of them has names but in english. (but ooo645template.desktop and template.desktop
[11:50] <fabbione> KaiL: more or less
[11:50] <KaiL> ah ;)
[11:50] <KaiL> is the wbsd driver in hoary compiled with SD support? (external patch..)
[11:51] <Amaranth> sure, put out gnome 2.11.1 packages during the transition so it's like walking through a mine field to get them :P
[11:51] <fabbione> KaiL: wbsd?
[11:51] <fabbione> what driver is that?
[11:51] <KaiL> http://projects.drzeus.cx/wbsd/
[11:51] <eruin> Amaranth: haha
[11:51] <KaiL> Winbond SDIO
[11:52] <fabbione> KaiL: and is it part of the hoary kernel?
[11:53] <fabbione> i386/386:CONFIG_MMC_WBSD=m
[11:53] <KaiL> yes, but I don't know, if with that SD patch mentioned on that page
[11:53] <fabbione> is this driver?
[11:53] <surak> Does someone know about via 6410 PATA raid controller in 2.6.10?
[11:53] <KaiL> yes
[11:54] <KaiL> surak: use kernel raid ;)
[11:54] <fabbione> KaiL: it's not an external patch. it's compiled as it is shipped from vanilla kernel
[11:54] <KaiL> yes
[11:54] <fabbione> surak: there is no driver for that controller in 2.6.10
[11:54] <KaiL> but out of the box it only supports MMC, not SD (as I understood that...)
[11:55] <KaiL> http://projects.drzeus.cx/wbsd/sd.php see this
[11:55] <surak> Kail: That's not the problem, but recognizing the pata drives on mobos with via6410 (there are people selling msi 915g mobos with pata drivers attached on it - not for raid, but to reduce costs)
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[11:55] <fabbione> KaiL: when the SD patch will make its way upstream, it will be included :)
[11:56] <surak> fabbione: I saw a patch somewhere to use the pata raid port without raid functions. Do you know something about it?
[11:56] <fabbione> surak: it's in the breezy kernel
[11:56] <KaiL> fabbione: so not yet?
[11:56] <fabbione> anyway i am off
[11:57] <fabbione> KaiL: no. the driver is upstream and they push patches there
[11:57] <fabbione> better they keep going that way
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[11:57] <KaiL> this sd patch not...
[11:57] <malte`> hi
[11:58] <malte`> i'm waiting for the gcc4 packages transition to end... i want to upgrade to breezy :)
[11:58] <malte`> go on with the good work guys!
[11:58] <malte`> (i upgraded to hoary since the 4-5 test cd)
[11:59] <surak> this is a silly question. Should I post a openoffice.org bug against ubuntu or ubuntu-universe?
[11:59] <KaiL> surak: normal IDE driver can't even detect this devices?
[11:59] <surak> no
[11:59] <KaiL> OO.o is in main
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