[12:01] <stevenj> anyone have any information on totem-gstreamer and a mozilla plugin so I can stream movies?
[12:05] <surak> kail: no, this motherboards have:
[12:05] <surak> 1 pata port (this is detected by ide driver)
[12:05] <surak> 4 stat ports (never tested)
[12:05] <surak> 2 raid pata ports (this is via6410)
[12:05] <surak> the patch seems to handle with those 2 pata ports
[12:05] <KaiL> no "normal" second pata??
[12:06] <surak> no
[12:06] <surak> weird, isn't it?
[12:06] <KaiL> yes
[12:07] <KaiL> and 2+2 on a K7
[12:07] <surak> it has one pata port for legacy cd. As people attach dvd-recorders on it, the raid port is used for pata hds.
[12:08] <KaiL> silly
[12:08] <KaiL> already installed over that legacy pata?
[12:08] <surak> sata is still quite uncommon in brazil.
[12:09] <surak> oh, it works. but don't try to record a dvd and use the hard drive at the same time :-)
[12:09] <KaiL> here each board has, but normally they are unused ;)
[12:09] <KaiL> lol
[12:09] <KaiL> could you triy the kernel from breezy?
[12:09] <KaiL> you only need to install 1 additional package
[12:10] <surak> I'm trying breezy right now
[12:10] <KaiL> kernel 2.6.12..?
[12:11] <surak> no
[12:11] <surak> its colony 1
[12:11] <KaiL> ?
[12:11] <surak> 2.6.10-5-i386
[12:12] <KaiL> "msi 915g" is the board?
[12:13] <KaiL> which CPU socket?
[12:13] <surak> msi 915g combo
[12:14] <surak> it is one of those new p4 sockets, where the processor no longer hold the contacts. forgot the name
[12:14] <KaiL> wow, the first Socket 775 I hear about ;p
[12:14] <KaiL> ah, yes, see it...
[12:15] <surak> I cannot install a newer kernel - using live - the hard drives are attached at raid :-)
[12:15] <KaiL> hmm
[12:15] <KaiL> you could get a breezy CD, if you are silly enough :p
[12:16] <KaiL> VERY strange configuration...
[12:16] <surak> this is breezy-live-i386.iso
[12:16] <luis_> the liveCD from yesterday actually works
[12:16] <luis_> at least did yesterday
[12:16] <KaiL> luis_: same board? ;)
[12:16] <luis_> no
[12:16] <KaiL> does it already have 2.6.12?
[12:17] <surak> no
[12:17] <surak> 2.6.10
[12:17] <KaiL> ...damn
[12:17] <surak> indeed - using live when there are 400gb waiting to be filled :-)
[12:18] <KaiL> connect the HD to the normal port? :)
[12:18] <surak> the case is,
[12:19] <surak> I work for a computer manufacturer. they actually are selling machines with this bizarre hd / dvd layout. people say "hey, it works with nt, we don't care"
[12:19] <KaiL> DDR+DDR2, no Firewire, useless PATA raid, Realtek LAN - am I allowed to say, this board sucks? ;)
[12:20] <KaiL> Windows doesn't have problems with that?
[12:20] <surak> they distribute together with it an linux distro which uses 2.4.25 with via proprietary driver - this way, the raid is recognized (needless to say via driver sucks - about 10mb/s)
[12:20] <surak> no, if you use the driver floppy :-)
[12:20] <KaiL> damn...
[12:21] <KaiL> do you really want to use the raid as a raid?
[12:21] <KaiL> (Mirror doesn't count, as we can do that later)
[12:21] <surak> no
[12:22] <surak> the driver from via is really really slow. it sucks at all.
[12:22] <KaiL> then connect the hd to the normal controller and the cdrom too
[12:22] <KaiL> install there, update kernel and then move the cdrom :)
[12:22] <surak> :-)
[12:23] <surak> My problem is, I need a distro which can actually see the hard drive out of box. Got to wait for live with 2.12
[12:23] <surak> 2.6.12, sorry
[12:23] <KaiL> for customers?
[12:23] <surak> yes
[12:23] <KaiL> ah
[12:24] <KaiL> what's this VGA? intel one?
[12:24] <surak> gnome item menus: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10943
[12:24] <surak> They are selling with radeon x300 pciexpress
[12:24] <surak> it IS an strange world :-)
[12:25] <surak> gotta go. Bye!
[12:25] <KaiL> alternate.de lists a "Media Accelerator 900" VGA chip..?
[12:25] <KaiL> for now: recommend an AMD K8
[12:26] <KaiL> they need less electrival power and are less problematic :p
[12:26] <surak> it has some bad vga onboard - didn't even tried
[12:26] <KaiL> if that's an intel, it's slow (~600fps in glxgears), but stable
[12:27] <KaiL> ....that was mesured with i855, afaik the new is faster
[12:27] <surak> night. i'll grab some wine and sleep.
[12:27] <KaiL> lol
[12:28] <KaiL> << sleep too, but no wine
[12:43] <TheMuso> .ckear
[01:07] <sjmorgan> can somebody using breezy try CTRL+SHIFT+T in gnome-terminal and see if it closes the current tab instead of opening a new one?
[01:08] <tseng> try #ubuntu.
[01:08] <sjmorgan> this is a potential bug
[01:08] <sjmorgan> not tech support
[01:08] <sjmorgan> i just want it confirming
[01:08] <tseng> when you have a potential fix, this is the right place
[01:09] <tseng> but confirmed and know better next time
[01:10] <sjmorgan> well nobody else has complained whenever i've asked about potential bugs in here before so i think i'll keep on doing it seeing as it's development related
[01:11] <sjmorgan> laters
[01:45] <SEBest> anyone knows gamin:fam ?
[01:45] <SEBest> gamin/fam ?
[02:01] <g14> Are there debs out for sabayon 0.1.8 yet?
[02:02] <Lathiat> cripes, that squid vuln has got to be the stupidest thing ever.
[02:17] <jdub> Lathiat: next time you see lifeless about... :)
[02:18] <lamont> 900MB RAM.  coolness
[02:19] <lamont> heh.  1GB array
[02:29] <sladen> lamont: paging overhead.  what kernel do you have running?
[02:31] <lamont> livecd
[02:36] <lu|dinner> g14: yes
[02:36] <lu|dinner> (wrt sabayon 0.18)
[02:37] <lu|dinner> seb128 said he pushed them a few hours ago
[02:37] <lu|dinner> thom: hey, is network-manager still planned for breezy?
[02:39] <bob2> I don't think you can do that in general, anyway
[02:39] <bob2> NetworkMagic spec, iirc
[02:44] <lu|dinner> ah, danke
[02:48] <g14> lu|dinner: Can I get a link for the sabayon 0.1.8 debs?
[02:51] <lu|dinner> they are in synaptic for me
[03:18] <ajmitch> lu|paper: it's certainly planned, still
[03:20] <g14> I'm gonna guess sabayon 0.1.8 is in the breezy apt repositories
[03:24] <tseng> why do you have to guess
[03:25] <tseng> look at breezy-changes list
[03:29] <g14> tseng: I'm there thanks to the osnews article. I am just trying to find a link to download the 0.1.8 sabayon deb as it's not in universe for hoary
[03:36] <jsgotangco> morning
[03:37] <benplaut> 'morning
[03:37] <benplaut> *afternoon
[03:38] <jdub> uh oh
[03:39] <benplaut> ?
[03:39] <jdub> where's daniels?
[03:39] <jdub> gah
[03:41] <jsgotangco> oh
[04:00] <jdub> STONER!
[04:00] <tseng> stoner broke my xorg :(
[04:01] <tseng> silly fonts
[04:01] <jdub> it runs ok if you pass -fp to it
[04:01] <tseng> yeah i fixed it
[04:01] <cartel_> stoner?
[04:02] <jdub> tseng: what did you change?
[04:02] <jdub> cartel_: daniel stone
[04:02] <tseng>  /usr/lib/fonts -> /usr/share/fonts
[04:02] <cartel_> tseng: 420 smoke it up!
[04:02] <cartel_> tseng: oh that stoner
[04:02] <tseng> cartel_: ...
[04:02] <cartel_> tseng: he cant handle his herb
[04:02] <jdub> that didn't fix Xnest for me
[04:02] <tseng> cartel_: straight edge to your face
[04:02] <cartel_> tseng: hehehe
[04:02] <tseng> jdub: worksforme
[04:03] <jdub> i think Xnest makes more assumptions about locations
[04:03] <tseng> or uses the running config?
[04:03] <tseng> shrug
[04:04] <jdub> yeah, funny
[04:04] <jdub> a real display works
[04:04] <jdub> but Xnest dosn't
[04:05] <jdub> i'll try Xnest in a newly configured real display
[04:06] <tseng> gr i need a mini pc w/ a pci slot
[04:06] <jdub> yeah, that's weird
[04:06] <jdub> it must use the running config
[05:02] <minghua> Is there any reason libc6-dev not depending linux-kernel-headers anymore?
[05:03] <minghua> can't see anything relevent in the upload changelog
[05:03] <minghua> except some metioning on NPTL headers, but doesn't look like related
[05:16] <wasabi> ntfsresize. ;)
[05:17] <lamont> ntfsprogs - tools for doing neat things in NTFS partitions from Linux
[05:17] <lamont> feh
[05:20] <lamont> the best part is that it's a virgin install. :-)
[05:28] <jdub> hey lamont 
[05:33] <lamont> morning jdub
[05:35] <Burgundavia> jdub, would you mind taking a look at my recent comment on 10453 and see if it on-track?
[05:37] <jdub> disagree with the specifics of the design, but the point of it is correct
[05:38] <Burgundavia> I was more worried about the point, not the design specs
[05:39] <Burgundavia> jdub, would you mind making a comment on how you would like to see it done, or any thoughts you have?
[05:40] <jdub> commented
[05:42] <Burgundavia> jdub, cheers, thanks
[05:42] <ajmitch> hi
[05:45] <tsume> breezy isn't very broken at all
[05:46] <tsume> I'm running KDE ;) and X, font paths changed :)
[05:46] <cartel_> does hoary upgrade to breezy cleanly?
[05:46] <tsume> cartel_: not right now :)
[05:46] <cartel_> where do the names come from?
[05:46] <tsume> cartel_: it can later however ;)
[05:46] <cartel_> where the wild things are?
[05:46] <tsume> cartel_: lang creatures
[05:46] <tsume> *land
[05:47] <cartel_> what about the first names?
[05:47] <tsume> the names are better than the crummy toystory characters ;)
[05:47] <cartel_> yeah but not better than "Shit for Brains"
[05:48] <cartel_> octopus-0.1 ("Shit for Brains")
[05:48] <tsume> hehe
[05:51] <tsume> I feel much better developing now. No GUI porting blues.
[06:01] <lamont> tsume: give us a day or so... :-)
[06:01] <tsume> lamont: hehe :)
[06:02] <tsume> lamont: I know how the transition progresses. I'm waiting patiently
[06:02] <lamont> cartel_: pretty  much random animals, although I think it might be trying to have an african-animals theme
[06:02] <tsume> lamont: just make sure the topic has a "breezy temporarily working" so people like I can upgrade.
[06:03] <tsume> lamont: is the african kid on the homepage supposed to be gangster-like?
[06:03] <lamont> nah - it's only marked 'probably well broken'
[06:03] <stuNNed> heh
[06:03] <tsume> mdz: you're still a speciesist :) 
[06:03] <tsume> mdz: :P
[06:03] <lamont> OTOH, I expect that all 5 models are south african.  warty's 3 were.
[06:04] <tsume> lamont: even the white people?
[06:04] <lamont> duh
[06:04] <tsume> lamont: okay.. :)
[06:04] <tsume> that one kid still looks gangster-like
[06:05] <tsume> I bet hes carrying a gun under his shirt
[06:05] <jsgotangco> because of the hair?
[06:05] <jsgotangco> that's not nice
[06:06] <tsume> jsgotangco: watch the government buildings sometime. I watched a kid walk in the door like him, and walk back out. There were metal detectors after the entrance, and he needed to take his gun off before entering the building again.
[06:06] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:06] <jsgotangco> just like the big bad wolf in little red riding hood
[06:07] <tsume> I'd of laughed if he pulled the gun and started shooting. All I needed to have to get in was a scan the first time, and I could walk in and out without them researching me. :P
[06:08] <tsume> though, I always set off the metal detector, I carry throwing knives in my leg sheath, and pass it off as my steel toed boots :)
[06:08] <jsgotangco> perimeter security hardware is overrated you still need people with brains to use them
[06:08] <lamont> the court building here has a nice set of lockers where you can store whatever...
[06:08] <lamont> right before the checkpoint
[06:08] <tsume> jsgotangco: there are 5 gaurds at the entrance and checkpoints
[06:08] <jsgotangco> gyah
[06:08] <tsume> at the entrance alone
[06:09] <jsgotangco> ninja skills pay off heh
[06:09] <tsume> heck, I carry large wallets for my palm all the time. I slip my lock picking kit _under_ my wallet, and bring it in government buildings ;)
[06:10] <jsgotangco> brb lunch
[06:10] <tsume> you just have to watch security some day and realise how transparent they are with security.
[06:10] <tsume> jsgotangco: brb, sleep time :P
[06:15] <lamont> daniels: livecd was happy with my display... installed system has lots of cruft/shadows
[06:16] <lamont> 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10] 
[06:17] <Lathiat> well i tried to upgrade. that was stupid.
[06:17] <Lathiat> now apt is in a totally broken state :)
[06:19] <Lathiat> hmm, seems by installing x11proto-core-dev manually, it fixed it.
[08:19] <pitti> Good morning
[08:20] <jsgotangco> pitti, hey :)
[08:21] <pitti> Hi jsgotangco 
[08:34] <pitti> thom, elmo: can I please have "xmlto" in davis' hoary dchroot?
[08:39] <fabbione> pitti: for the kernel?
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[08:39] <fabbione> it's in the breezy chroot at atleast
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: make-kpkg in the breezy dchroot is b0rken
[08:39] <fabbione> uh?
[08:39] <fabbione> since when?
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: I tried to build a kernel for an hour, and then I noticed that it works in hoary's dchroot
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: it worked at Tuesday
[08:40] <fabbione> what error do you get?
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: yesterday it was broken
[08:40] <fabbione> weird
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: when calling make-kpkg in e. g. debian/build/build-powerpc it insisted to claim that this wasn't a kernel source dir
[08:40] <Amaranth> hey, vlc still works!
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: xmlto is needed only to build the documentation
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: that's why I spent an hour trying to fix patches/config/etc
[08:40] <Amaranth> the GUI just got removed, the libs and python bindings work
[08:40] <Amaranth> neat
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: if you only need the arch binaries use the build-debs target
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: and grab the debs from debian/build
[08:41] <pitti> fabbione: ah, cool, I will do that
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: i need to figure the build-indep stuff in the kernel
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: i don't think you need udebs, do you?
[08:41] <pitti> fabbione: no
[08:41] <fabbione> ok
[08:41] <pitti> fabbione: actually I only need the powerpc deb
[08:42] <pitti> fabbione: but calling make-kpkg in debian/build/b-ppc fails as well
[08:42] <fabbione> than use the above target
[08:42] <pitti> fabbione: that's why I rebuilt the whole kernel during the night
[08:42] <fabbione> oh right...
[08:42] <fabbione> that's weird
[08:43] <pitti> fabbione: you mean fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch?
[08:43] <pitti> oh, there is binary-debs, now I see it
[08:43] <pitti> thanks man
[08:44] <fabbione> but that will still call make-kpkg
[08:44] <pitti> erm, that reconfigures the kernels??? they are already built...
[08:44] <fabbione> no don't worry.. let it do
[08:44] <fabbione> it doesn't reconfigure
[08:44] <pitti> ah, ok "Nothing to be done for build" :-)
[08:54] <pitti> fabbione: I can't believe it, I get debs :-)
[08:54] <fabbione> no! really? :)
[08:54] <pitti> fabbione: odd, this worked so nicely on Tuesday...
[08:54] <fabbione> i will need to check on that
[08:55] <fabbione> probably kernel-package has been updated
[08:55] <fabbione> and it is broken
[08:55] <pitti> fabbione: zul got the same
[08:55] <pitti> fabbione: so I don't think that it is my stupidity only
[08:56] <fabbione> pitti: yes i saw the message, but i didn't build kernels that way for a while
[08:56] <pitti> "that way"? with debuild -us -uc -nc?
[08:57] <fabbione> pitti: to do test kernels i usually use the binary-debs target
[08:58] <pitti> fabbione: is there a special trick to build only one flavor?
[08:58] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. rm debian/config/$arch/$not_needed_flavours
[08:59] <pitti> ok, the hard way :-)
[08:59] <fabbione> well mv them somewhere else :)
[08:59] <pitti> yeah, of course
[09:06] <tja> does ubuntu-kernel use pivot_root?
[09:07] <fabbione> tja: what do you mean?
[09:07] <tja> well.. how to put this..
[09:07] <tja> when it boots.. I can't find anything of interest in the initrd-image
[09:07] <tja> ;)
[09:08] <tja> meaning, I don't undestand how it chroots to the filesystem
[09:08] <fabbione> the initrd is meant to load the minimum it needs to pivot_root to the real root
[09:08] <pitti> trulux: ?
[09:08] <pitti> Hi mvo
[09:08] <mvo> morning pitti, morning all
[09:08] <fabbione> there is nothing interesting
[09:09] <Burgundavia> morning mvo
[09:09] <tja> fabbione: where is it done? I'm trying to find an example to use in d-i...
[09:10] <mvo> hey Burgundavia 
[09:10] <fabbione> tja: it's done in the initrd, but d-i is something slightly different. the initrd there is bigger and with more stuff
[09:11] <tja> and the chroot is linked to busybox, which complicates things
[09:11] <tja> but yeah, I'll continue digging
[09:13] <tja> ah, blind me. it was sbin/init that does all that
[09:42] <pitti> Hey hey seb128 
[09:43] <seb128> morning pitti :)
[09:43] <seb128> do you feel better?
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: yeah, pretty good again now :-)
[09:55] <seb128> cool
[10:02] <jdub> hey seb128 
[10:02] <seb128> morning jdub 
[10:02] <seb128> what's up? :)
[10:02] <jdub> my pants
[10:02] <jdub> but only briefly
[10:03] <seb128> ah ah
[10:03] <seb128> how are these bug lists going? 
[10:03] <seb128> nobody gets malone/GNOME bugs atm, would be nice to get a mailing list for these :)
[10:04] <jdub> ok
[10:26] <pitti> trulux: here?
[10:50] <fabbione> pitti: did the kernel error showed also on !ppc ?
[10:50] <fabbione> or is it ppc specific?
[10:50] <pitti> fabbione: I only tried it on davis's breezy dchroot
[10:50] <pitti> no idea
[10:50] <fabbione> ok
[10:51] <fabbione> i am gonna spin concordia a bit :)
[10:54] <fabbione> is there something wrong with chinstrap?
[10:55] <fabbione> i can't ssh anymore
[10:55] <pitti> fabbione: I can't get to chinstrap, the wiki, bugzilla, etc
[10:55] <fabbione> ahi ahi ahi
[10:55] <pitti> meh, I just finished typing a bug report
[10:55] <fabbione> thom: ???
[10:56] <bob2> (me too)
[11:00] <zyga> is archive.ubuntu.com down?
[11:00] <pitti> zyga: all of our computers can't be reached atm
[11:00] <zyga> pitti: ah, fine
[11:01] <Kamion> tja: what are you trying to do in d-i?
[11:01] <Kamion> tja: most things that need to run stuff from the target filesystem in d-i just do 'chroot /target whatever'
[11:18] <pitti> crimsun_: here?
[11:23] <tja> kamion: I'm trying the pivot_root && chroot -stuff, but I've hit the wall
[11:26] <tja> I've changed lib/debian-installer/exit to run a script if debian-installer/exit/pivot_root boolean is true
[11:26] <tja> but the main-menu just tells that something went wrong
[11:27] <tja> at least pivot_root is done, verified from a console
[11:31] <Kamion> you'd probably want to re-exec init after that, like the live CD does - check the casper source
[11:32] <tja> exec chroot . /sbin/init <dev/console >dev/console 2>&1
[11:32] <tja> that's what it _tries_ to run ;)
[11:32] <Kamion> that won't be pid 1, and init won't like that
[11:33] <tja> so just "exec /sbin/init"?
[11:33] <Kamion> no, see casper :-)
[11:33] <tja> ok, will do ->
[11:33] <Kamion> it does a pivot_root and then (a bit later) 'kill -USR1 1'
[11:34] <tja> the grub-installer thing seems "easy", only that the postinst-script is quite messy
[11:34] <tja> ..to read
[11:34] <Kamion> that was password preseeding? yeah, it's straightforward
[11:34] <tja> yep
[11:35] <Kamion> all the bootloader installers are a bit messy in one form or another ...
[11:36] <tja> instant headache after reading that
[11:37] <Kamion> you get used to them :)
[11:38] <tja> sooo many ways to get one ;)
[11:40] <Kamion> I've got some grub-installer stuff to commit after I finish the current bit of http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerStage2Progress; if you send me a patch by that point, I'll commit it at around the same time
[11:40] <tja> cool
[11:44] <fabbione> oh pitti... i think the chroots still have an old dpkg
[11:44] <pitti> fabbione: wrt building the kernel?
[11:45] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[11:45] <pitti> fabbione: oh, ok. well, since it works fine on hoary, I'm happy so far :-)
[11:46] <sladen> Kamion: out of interest, what type of message gets pushed through --status-fd?
[11:47] <sladen> Kamion: never mind, found it
[12:14] <thom> pitti: can you do a security review for me? http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/dhcdbd-1.5.tar.gz; needs to be setuid root since it needs to be able to start and stop dhclient
[12:14] <pitti> I take a look at it, how urgent is it?
[12:15] <thom> it's for NetworkMagic, so not like OMG I NEED IT THIS MINUTE, but next week sometime would be good
[12:15] <pitti> oh, I can do it today
[12:15] <thom> rocking
[12:16] <thom> i'm not really gonna be connected for much of the day, so email would be great :-)
[12:16] <pitti> sure
[12:16] <thom> cheers
[12:17] <pitti> fabbione: dmix sucks.
[12:20] <fabbione> pitti: cool!
[12:20] <fabbione> fix it :)
[12:20] <mjg59> dmix is getting less suck6
[12:24] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[12:24] <pitti> Hi ajmitch 
[12:24] <bob2> dmix will work automagically in the next release of alsa, apparently
[12:24] <pitti> bob2: the problem is not getting it to work, that's easy
[12:25] <bob2> yeah
[12:25] <pitti> bob2: but on my internal sound card it outputs cracks and noise
[12:25] <bob2> but it's one less thing to do
[12:25] <pitti> bob2: and esd does not start on my external USB headset
[12:25] <pitti> because it can't find an appropriate rate/format/whatever
[12:25] <pitti> even if I force it in asound.conf *sigh*
[12:25] <bob2> hah
[12:25] <ajmitch> pitti: sorry I haven't been around, how's things going on the security front?
[12:26] <pitti> ajmitch: I'm currently working with trulux to get SELinux packages in (maybe you can take over, I'm overloaded)
[12:26] <pitti> ajmitch: and I built a test kernel with /tmp race protection
[12:26] <ajmitch> pitti: sure, I've been working with him
[12:26] <ajmitch> I've looked over the patches as well 
[12:27] <pitti> ajmitch: I have the SElinux patched packages on my box for a while, without any problems
[12:27] <pitti> ajmitch: I think we should upload them ASAP
[12:27] <ajmitch> apart from pam, which had config file changes :)
[12:28] <ajmitch> preferably in the next week, imho
[12:28] <pitti> ajmitch: well, I'm still misssing some packages, trulux does not have all of them on his page
[12:28] <ajmitch> which ones are missing?
[12:28] <ajmitch> I checked the dpkg patch against 1.13 by manoj
[12:28] <pitti> dunno exactly
[12:29] <ajmitch> it's quite small
[12:29] <pitti> ajmitch: I think Keybuk is willing to apply it for Debian and for Ubuntu rsn
[12:29] <ajmitch> yeah, I saw the conversation yesterday
[12:30] <ajmitch> once packages are in I'll start working on policy & tools as well
[12:31] <ajmitch> they can go into universe for now, then we can review for main-worthiness :)
[12:31] <pitti> ajmitch: yeah
[12:31] <pitti> ajmitch: having the patched packages in main already helps a lot, then it's a piece of cake to install the rest
[12:31] <ajmitch> certainly
[12:32] <ajmitch> gives me a good reason to apply for uploading to main
[12:32] <ajmitch> :)
[12:36] <ajmitch> pitti: what else can I help with for now?
[12:37] <jsgotangco> bye all
[12:37] <pitti> ajmitch: are you familiar with the ubuntu kernel packaging?
[12:40] <ajmitch> pitti: I can learn, I've built modified kernels from it before
[12:40] <pitti> ajmitch: it would be nice to get some more patches, as we talked about in the bof
[12:40] <ajmitch> sure
[12:41] <seb128> pitti: anything new with dmix to say that it sucks?
[12:41] <pitti> seb128: well, first, you can't open /dev/dsp while another alsa client is running (that's not dmix' fault, however)
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: so our original purpose of allowing people to run skype and friends is defeated by that
[12:42] <seb128> not cool
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: second, when I use dmix on my cheap card here, I get a lot of cracks and noise
[12:43] <seb128> :(
[12:44] <mjg59> pitti: skype supports alsa, doesn't it?
[12:44] <mjg59> And is this you using dmix directly, or going via esd?
[12:45] <mjg59> The /dev/dsp thing can be avoided by LD_PRELOADing the library which wraps OSS calls to alsa ones
[12:46] <jordi> dmix is going to be a pain
[12:46] <pitti> mjg59: I went through esd
[12:46] <pitti> mjg59: because we decided to leave the esd interface a bit for transition
[12:46] <pitti> mjg59: OTOH, lemme try to switch gstreamer to alsa...
[12:47] <mjg59> pitti: There's known issues with esd and dmix
[12:47] <mjg59> There's a patch in gnome bugzilla
[12:47] <pitti> mjg59: indeed, no cracks with gstreamer -> alsa
[12:48] <pitti> (with dmix)
[12:48] <mjg59> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140803
[12:48] <mjg59> Try the last patch in there
[12:49] <pitti> mjg59: oh, I still get cracks
[12:49] <pitti> fewer, but on hd activity they are still noticeable
[12:49] <mjg59> Ok, with hd activity that's likely to be a separate problem
[12:52] <count0nz> sorry to bug you :), how whuld i force breezy to be installed ? it won't let me install it after i upgraded , downgraded and then upgraded again :)
[01:02] <pitti> seb128: how much would break if we switched gstreamer output to alsa and entirely skip esd?
[01:02] <pitti> and do you think that would be a good idea in the first place?
[01:03] <tja> sound output of my totem is completely screwed if the audio_sink is esd
[01:03] <tja> so it clearly has issues
[01:04] <pitti> tja: do you use dmix?
[01:04] <tja> no
[01:04] <tja> this is a stinkpad T23
[01:04] <count0nz> :( hates sme
[01:04] <count0nz> sh-3.00# apt-get --ignore-hold dist-upgrade
[01:04] <count0nz> Reading package lists... Done
[01:04] <count0nz> Building dependency tree... Done
[01:04] <count0nz> Calculating upgrade... Done
[01:04] <count0nz> The following packages have been kept back:
[01:04] <count0nz>   arts aspell-bin qt3-dev-tools x-window-system-core
[01:04] <count0nz> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
[01:05] <\sh> hmm...jabber messages would also be nice for malone ;)
[01:07] <seb128> pitti: let me ask on #gstreamer :)
[01:07] <pitti> seb128: I mean, there shouldn't be many (any?) apps which use esound directly, right?
[01:07] <seb128> pitti: imho that's worth trying
[01:07] <doko> chmj: ping
[01:07] <seb128> pitti: I don't think so
[01:07] <pitti> seb128: I also try the gnome patch for esd now, but one api less is always nice
[01:08] <seb128> yeah
[01:08] <pitti> seb128: at least I can purge "esound" without any dependency issue
[01:10] <seb128> pitti: but by using alsa directly you lock /dev/dsp, no?
[01:11] <pitti> seb128: yeah, that's the problem, but it could be solved (as mjg59 says) with the alsa-oss wrapper
[01:11] <pitti> seb128: right now esd uses oss, so we are already locking /dev/dsp
[01:11] <seb128> oh, you want to switch to libesd-alsa?
[01:11] <seb128> I thought you want to drop esd
[01:12] <pitti> seb128: either libesd-alsa or gstreamer->alsa->dmix
[01:12] <pitti> seb128: my patched esd is ready, lemme try
[01:13] <seb128> according to a teuf (a rb/gnome-vfs guy) dmix should works better with alsa 1.0.9
[01:13] <pitti> yeah, and automatically
[01:13] <seb128> s/a teuf/teuf/
[01:13] <pitti> seb128: so far I have sound black magic configuration
[01:14] <seb128> if we push dmix now, that's easy to switch to esd-alsa later? 
[01:15] <pitti> seb128: we should switch to esd-alsa in any case
[01:15] <seb128> ok, so let's do that NOW :)
[01:15] <pitti> seb128: i. e. *now*, regardless of what we do
[01:15] <pitti> seb128: yeah, we need to change ubuntu-desktop for that
[01:16] <pitti> Kamion: do you think changing the esd dependency of ubuntu-desktop is reserved to mdz?
[01:16] <aj> anyone know when mdz's off holidays, btw?
[01:17] <ogra> monday afaik
[01:17] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, the patch doesn't help :-(
[01:17] <pitti> mjg59: still cracks
[01:19] <pitti> fuck, my Control key is totally broken
[01:19] <Kamion> pitti: go ahead, I'll take responsibility if he objects and we can always switch back later
[01:19] <aj> ogra: cheers
[01:19] <Kamion> pitti: (as in go ahead and change the seed)
[01:19] <Kamion> aj: yeah, Monday 23rd
[01:20] <pitti> Kamion: the idea was to s/libesd0/libesd-alsa0/; does that have to happen in the seeds?
[01:20] <Kamion> desktop: * libesd0 # so that esd actually works (as opposed to libesd-alsa0)
[01:21] <mjg59> pitti: File a bug, then
[01:21] <mjg59> (Or follow up to that one)
[01:22] <pitti> Kamion: at that time -alsa0 had issues, but it works perfectly for weeks now at my boxes
[01:22] <mjg59> esd maintenance is basically stalled. If we're going to depend on it, that needs to be fixed.
[01:22] <pitti> we thought about switching to polypaudio anyway
[01:22] <Kamion> pitti: right - but libesd0 is in the seed, so you'll have to change that to make it happen
[01:22] <Kamion> ... just like hoary
[01:22] <pitti> ok
[01:22] <mjg59> Personally, I'd be inclined to get rid of the damn thing altogether. The only thing it really offers over dmix is network transparency, and we don't set that up.
[01:23] <pitti> mjg59: ++
[01:23] <mjg59> Does everything in main that produces sound use gstreamer?
[01:23] <pitti> mjg59: everyting in our default desktop at least
[01:23] <seb128> I don't think so
[01:24] <tja> doesn't the desktop sounds depend on a running esd?
[01:24] <pitti> mjg59: that's why <pitti> seb128: how much would break if we switched gstreamer output to alsa and entirely skip esd?
[01:24] <mjg59> If so, that should really be fixed
[01:24] <seb128> pitti: xchat, gaim by example don't use gstreamer afaik
[01:24] <pitti> xchat uses any sound??
[01:24] <seb128> sure
[01:24] <pitti> I only get pc speaker beeps
[01:24] <mjg59> xchat has support for playing samples, but not for automatically downloading them
[01:24] <Mithrandir> gdm uses aplay.
[01:24] <seb128> preferences
[01:24] <seb128> sounds
[01:25] <pitti> seb128: indeed, gaim uses esd by default 
[01:25] <mjg59> Of course, there's no downside in continuing to offer esd
[01:25] <Mithrandir> X doesn't use gstreamer either.
[01:25] <seb128> pitti: no, gaim uses libao
[01:25] <mjg59> X doesn't make sound
[01:25] <Mithrandir> mjg59: xset +b and it does.
[01:25] <pitti> seb128: my gaim is set to esd
[01:25] <seb128> pitti: and I've patched it to use esd by default, easy to change
[01:25] <pitti> seb128: can we make it use alsa?
[01:25] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ungk. That's through the system beeper though, isn't it?
[01:25] <seb128> pitti: yes
[01:25] <pitti> seb128: so far it offers me esd, artsd, automatic
[01:26] <mjg59> I'd suggest the following:
[01:26] <mjg59> a) change gstreamer to use alsa directly
[01:26] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I'm actually not sure; it seems to be captured by esd and turned into more of a "boing" sound.
[01:26] <mjg59> b) patch esd, set it to use alsa and leave it in desktop
[01:26] <seb128> pitti: "automatic" uses libao IIRC
[01:26] <mjg59> c) wrap any legacy OSS apps
[01:27] <mjg59> That way everything works
[01:27] <seb128> pitti: hum, which does esd/oss/polypaudio but not alsa apparently ...
[01:27] <pitti> that's what I mean
[01:27] <pitti> seb128: however, you can setup a custom command
[01:27] <mjg59> libao ought to support alsa, shoudln't it?
[01:27] <pitti> seb128: let's use "aplay" :-)
[01:28] <seb128> mjg59: not according to the package description, not sure on how reliable that is :)
[01:28] <seb128> pitti: hehe
[01:28] <pitti> seb128: that works fine
[01:28] <seb128> cool
[01:28] <pitti> seb128: killing esd and setting it to automatic doesn't work
[01:28] <mjg59> mpg321 uses libao - I thought that was how it got alsa support
[01:28] <seb128> automatic is libao, which is set to esd
[01:29] <mjg59> Ok. libao supports alsa.
[01:29] <mjg59> (On checking the source)
[01:29] <seb128> yep
[01:29] <seb128> there is an alsa09
[01:30] <seb128>    * OSS (Open Sound System)
[01:30] <seb128>    * ESD (ESounD or Enlightened Sound Daemon)
[01:30] <seb128>    * ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture)
[01:30] <seb128>    * polypaudio (next generation GNOME sound server)
[01:30] <seb128> from the README
[01:30] <pitti> cool
[01:30] <mjg59> So it's a minimal amount of change that's needed
[01:30] <seb128> right
[01:31] <seb128> go go go pitti :)
[01:32] <pitti> argh, can I please have my Control key back?
[01:32] <pitti> now that it doesn't work any more I notice how often I need it...
[01:32] <seb128> downgrade xorg?
[01:33] <thom> so firefox is fine (ctrl+t etc are fine) but ephy is utterly fucked
[01:33] <thom> what's up with that?
[01:33] <mjg59> gtk boog
[01:33] <pitti> I tried to change something in the keyboard shortcuts and now it is even more broken
[01:34] <seb128> thom: xorg b0rkage
[01:35] <thom> seb128: dude, i'm so blaming you
[01:35] <seb128> why?
[01:35] <thom> why not? ;-)
[01:35] <Treenaks> thom: what's wrong with blaming daniels? :)
[01:35] <seb128> because that's xorg bog
[01:35] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: he's not around.  So seb is a convenient scapegoat.
[01:35] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, daniels is currently not here
[01:36] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: good point
[01:36] <Treenaks> seb128: gtk should patch around it! :)
[01:36] <thom> Treenaks: because firefox works and ephy doesn't
[01:36] <thom> thus, i blame seb
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: seeds updated. since ubuntu-meta's update script pulls from your website, how often is that updated?
[01:37] <thom> (this may be the only time i can ever say that)
[01:38] <pitti> thom: it is broken in gnome-terminal, too, which makes it even more gtk-bug'ish
[01:38] <seb128> thom: yeah, I was ready to reassign an epiphany bug about this to firefox yesterday :)
[01:38] <seb128> and gedit
[01:38] <seb128> and nautilus
[01:39] <pitti> i. e. in all gnome apps :-)
[01:39] <seb128> bah
[01:40] <seb128> IZ NOT GTK BOG
[01:40] <seb128> (let's try if that way can convince people :p)
[01:41] <pitti> no, it's a damn x.org bug
[01:41] <pitti> brb
[01:44] <pitti> hmm, no luck
[01:46] <pitti> seb128: any idea which files I have to delete to reset my gnome keyboard settings?
[01:47] <seb128> ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/ I would say
[01:53] <pitti> seb128: that didn't help, but removing my ~/.gconf* did :-) (of course I lost all my other settings, too...)
[01:53] <seb128> bah
[01:53] <seb128> never do this
[01:54] <seb128> you trash your panels, desktop, mailer, etc settings
[01:54] <pitti> I removed everything that sounded like keyboard, but it didn't help, sooo
[01:54] <seb128> ~/.gconf/apps/gnome_settings_daemon/keybindings/ and ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/ should have the keyboard stuff
[01:55] <pitti> seb128: I removed them (and some more), didn't help
[01:55] <seb128> restarted gconf?
[01:56] <pitti> restarted my whole session
[01:56] <seb128> bah, sucks
[02:00] <Kamion> pitti: ubuntu-meta's only updated semi-automatically. I'll take care of it
[02:01] <pitti> Kamion: it pulls the seeds from your webpage, right? this is updated in a cronjob?
[02:01] <Kamion> pitti: oh, I see. maximum lag time there is 17 minutes; I've just done it manually
[02:02] <pitti> ah, cool
[02:03] <Kamion> pitti: do you want to upload u-m then?
[02:03] <pitti> Kamion: I can do that
[02:03] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[02:04] <pitti> Kamion: should the many "Skipping unavailable package " messages worry me?
[02:05] <pitti> at least it seems to have worked fine
[02:06] <pitti> hey, it added "firefox" to desktop-*, how odd
[02:08] <Kamion> pitti: don't worry about the skips
[02:09] <Kamion> pitti: used to be mozilla-firefix
[02:09] <pitti> ah, right
[02:09] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox
[02:09] <Kamion> should also have added dselect to standard ;)
[02:11] <[g2] > lamont, your page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BuildDaemons references a "final infrastructure" can you tell me the status or where I can learn more about the final infrastructure ?
[02:12] <Kamion> [g2] : that would be Launchpad
[02:12] <[g2] > Kamion, THX
[02:12] <Kamion> a project being developed internally by Canonical to deal with all the mechanics of running distributions
[02:14] <[g2] > I'm a core dev on an embedded linux distribution (nslu2-linux) 
[02:15] <[g2] > so that project is of interest to me
[02:15] <[g2] > :)
[02:15] <tsume> which project?
[02:15] <[g2] > Launcpad
[02:15] <[g2] > with an h
[02:17] <[g2] > heh... the "open source universe" :)
[02:20] <Lathiat> mpt: chopped.
[02:20] <tseng|work> is there somewhere I can see why a package was removed from debian?
[02:21] <Mithrandir> tseng|work: http://ftp-master.debian.org/removals.txt
[02:21] <crimsun_> pitti: pong (sorry, work has removed me)
[02:22] <pitti> crimsun_: hi! do you happen to know about the progress in ALSA?
[02:22] <pitti> crimsun_: so far I experimented with enabling dmix and switching gstreamer to alsa
[02:22] <pitti> (killing esd)
[02:22] <KaiL> fabbione: just got a question about captive-support in kernel - do we have that in .10 or .12?
[02:22] <pitti> crimsun_: however, occasionally I get cracks on I/O activity
[02:22] <tseng|work> "dead upstream" :(
[02:23] <pitti> crimsun_: do you know if alsa 1.0.9 is any better?
[02:23] <pitti> crimsun_: I have heard that it uses dmix by default, so far I had to whack asound.conf
[02:23] <crimsun_> pitti: 1.0.9 should be much improved over stock Hoary (1.0.6, though universe's alsa-source is 1.0.8)
[02:24] <pitti> crimsun_: I'm not sure about the version in 2.6.12-1
[02:24] <pitti> in breezy
[02:24] <crimsun_> oh, that should be synced with 1.0.9rc2
[02:26] <crimsun_> pitti: does gstreamer allow one to specify alsa device(s), or does it use "default"? If it does allow specifying a device, any better luck with plughw:0
[02:26] <KaiL> Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.9rc2  (Thu Mar 24 10:33:39 2005 UTC)
[02:26] <KaiL> (from breezy kernel)
[02:26] <pitti> crimsun_: it uses the default, i. e. ~/.asoundrc
[02:27] <pitti> crimsun_: our idea is to have a small daemon listening to hal soundcard hotplug events, and if a new card is attached, we can offer to change the default device
[02:27] <pitti> crimsun_: (this would change ~/.asoundrc)
[02:28] <crimsun_> pitti: ah, ok. So you'd redefine pcm.!default on each ~/.asoundrc update?
[02:28] <pitti> yeah, that was the idea
[02:28] <crimsun_> pitti: how simple is the dmixed definition that you're using?
[02:28] <pitti> of course only if the user didn't do manual tweaks
[02:28] <crimsun_> right
[02:28] <pitti> crimsun_: basically I added a pcm.dmix0, pcm.dmix1, etc. for the first 8 or so cards
[02:29] <pitti> that should be enough for most purposes
[02:29] <pitti> then I can change !default to dmix0, dmix1, etc.
[02:29] <pitti> I /msged you 
[02:29] <pitti> crimsun_: right now it's very simple, I didn't add any resampling etc.
[02:30] <crimsun_> yep, got it
[02:30] <crimsun_> looks good, though mine has ctl. definitions, too
[02:30] <pitti> crimsun_: adding "rate" is difficult since we don't know what the hw supports, so the apps should just try to open it with the frequency they want
[02:30] <crimsun_> (http://pastebin.com/286499)
[02:31] <crimsun_> pitti: yeah, resampling is problematic and still hasn't been addressed (fixed) for dmix
[02:31] <pitti> but in your version it is more difficult to change the default device, right?
[02:31] <henriquemaia> Can please someone tell if this is a bug? I have rebooted my machine today and my sound just went away. The only thing i chaged was choosing xfce instead of gnome.
[02:32] <doko> elmo: please could I have access to an ia64/breezy chroot with binutils build-deps?
[02:32] <henriquemaia> Now i have sound again, but the configuration just went nuts.
[02:32] <crimsun_> pitti: I prefer your version, though you might want to put in ctl.dmix#
[02:32] <pitti> crimsun_: yeah, in any case
[02:32] <pitti> later we can also switch to dsnoop, but one step at a time
[02:33] <crimsun_> yes
[02:33] <pitti> crimsun_: still I'm not satisfied with dmix at this stage, the quality is too poor (crackles)
[02:33] <pitti> crimsun_: once this works, we can base everything on alsa/dmix and throw out esound and crap
[02:33] <crimsun_> pitti: which chipset?
[02:34] <pitti> VIA 82C686A/B rev50, a cheap internal one
[02:34] <pitti> I also have a Logitech USB headset
[02:34] <crimsun_> ah, so no dxs_support parameters passed to snd-via82xx
[02:34] <pitti> that is?
[02:35] <crimsun_> dxs_support is via82xx-specific for resampling
[02:35] <crimsun_> there's a link on the alsa wiki that references Takashi's explanation, if I can find it...
[02:38] <pitti> crimsun_: ah, modinfo snd_via82xx explains the parameter
[02:38] <pitti> crimsun_: I assume 0 (auto) is the default
[02:38] <crimsun_> pitti: yep, also some info here in the "DXS channels" section: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=via8233
[02:39] <KaiL> btw, what is this DXS?
[02:40] <KaiL> got informations, that disabling this helps about performance problems (that shitty think seams to be 90% software)
[02:41] <crimsun_> KaiL: it's Via's cheap pcm multiplexing
[02:41] <doko> elmo: do we have a version schema to mark an -ubuntu version as syncable again, maybe -ubuntu1 -zapit1
[02:41] <KaiL> ah
[02:41] <KaiL> somethingyou shouldn't even thing about using? ;)
[02:42] <crimsun_> KaiL: it really depends on the motherboard, unfortunately
[02:42] <KaiL> never saw a board, where this produces a sound quality, can call call such
[02:42] <pitti> crimsun_: do you think dmix works nice in general, but has just poor quality on my particular motherboard?
[02:42] <KaiL> esp. compared to intel or nVidia audiochips, which are also onboard!
[02:43] <crimsun_> pitti: it's an adequate interim solution on most motherboards
[02:43] <crimsun_> pitti: but it's far from optimised
[02:44] <pitti> crimsun_: our original problem was that commercial and legacy apps which can only handle esd don't work ATM since esd is blocking the sound device
[02:44] <pitti> crimsun_: however, even with dmix opening /dev/dsp doesn't work
[02:44] <KaiL> pitti: if you have the possibility to add a real sound card, do that :p
[02:45] <pitti> crimsun_: so I'm almost inclined to defer this a bit
[02:45] <pitti> KaiL: I even have another one here (SoundBlaster 128)
[02:45] <crimsun_> pitti: yeah, there are serious problems with dmix and alsa's oss emulation
[02:45] <pitti> KaiL: but testing is better with cheap chips
[02:45] <KaiL> pitti: your ears don't want that testing too long *g*
[02:46] <crimsun_> pitti: try using aoss (in alsa-oss package) with the app, like ,,aoss $legacy_oss-only_app''
[02:46] <Mithrandir> hi trygvebw 
[02:46] <trygvebw> hi
[02:46] <pitti> crimsun_: I know about this possibliity, but we hoped to make it work without the wrapper :-/
[02:46] <trygvebw> xfonts is broken atm?
[02:46] <crimsun_> pitti: ah, true
[02:47] <crimsun_> I'll have more time to look this weekend (been very busy this week with new job and such)
[02:53] <trulux> heya fellows
[02:53] <pitti> crimsun_: okay, I guess I will just throw "dmix by default" at the breezy people for more widespread testing
[02:53] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: howdy!
[02:53] <pitti> trulux: you have mail, we need another round :-/
[02:53] <pitti> trulux: I think I know where the bug is (see mail)
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: yep, stupid mistake: krsec_enabled statement must be removed from __init functions
[02:53] <trulux> it's still not initialized
[02:53] <trulux> so, you would get everytime a NULL or 0 value
[02:53] <pitti> trulux: shouldn't C_K_S_DEFAULT_VALUE just control the value of krsec_default?
[02:54] <crimsun_> pitti: great :)
[02:54] <trulux> the point is that we can do it in the hard way, but there's no sense (I'm talking on having the int krsec_.... = CONFIG_SECURITY_......_DEFAULT)
[02:54] <trulux> pitti: nope
[02:54] <trulux> pitti: don't worry about the heck, I'll bake it for you
[02:54] <trulux> ;)+
[02:54] <pitti> trulux: cool, please ping me if you have it ready, then I build another kernel
[02:55] <pitti> trulux: (I get better at it slowly :-) )
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: won't take more than 5 min
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: got uplaods back: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/misc/lock-picking/pict0010.avi <- opening video :)
[02:56] <pitti> seb128: if I enable dmix by default, we need to change gstreamer to alsa, otherwise we'll get crappy sound with esd
[02:56] <seb128> pitti: k
[02:56] <pitti> seb128: I change the default sink in gstreamer?
[02:57] <seb128> I'll do it
[02:57] <seb128> I want to upload 0.8.10
[02:57] <pitti> oh, great
[02:57] <pitti> crimsun_: btw, where does this mixing etc. take place? in the kernel drivers or the userspace lib?
[02:57] <pitti> crimsun_: if the latter, I can update alsa-lib to 1.0.9 easily
[02:57] <pitti> crimsun_: but I don't want to bother fabbione with updating the kernel drivers
[02:59] <crimsun_> pitti: libasound2
[03:00] <pitti> crimsun_: great! then I update to 1.0.9rc3
[03:00] <pitti> crimsun_: we have 1.0.8 right now
[03:01] <crimsun_> pitti: ok
[03:03] <pitti> Hey jordi! just saw that you are (one of) the alsa-lib maintainers :-)
[03:04] <crimsun_> -> work, bye all :)
[03:04] <pitti> thanks crimsun_, see you
[03:07] <trygvebw> xfonts is broken atm, or is it another package?
[03:09] <ogra> trygvebw, xorg is in a complete transition atm....
[03:09] <trygvebw> ogra: ok :)
[03:09] <ogra> will take some days..
[03:09] <trygvebw> the c++ api change?
[03:09] <ogra> thats something else
[03:09] <trygvebw> okay
[03:09] <Mithrandir> no, the "get rid of /usr/X11R6" change, I think.
[03:09] <ogra> yep
[03:09] <ogra> :)
[03:09] <trygvebw> ah :)
[03:27] <AndyFitz> so how broken are the c++ packages today ? :D 
[03:29] <tseng|work> it wasnt bad yesterday
[03:29] <tseng|work> only aspell and pspell were broken on my system
[03:29] <tseng|work> broken as in, cant upgrade
[03:30] <tseng|work> xorg was pretty broken
[03:33] <AndyFitz> ouch
[03:34] <AndyFitz> okay so dist-upgrade is out of the question still
[03:34] <AndyFitz> package by package I'll walk this limbo of uncertainty :-P
[03:35] <tsume> tseng: font path was broken, xorg wasnt
[03:36] <Kamion> I think we need a symlink in the old font path location really; can't expect everyone to have dexconf-managed xorg.conf
[03:39] <trulux> pitti: sent
[03:39] <pitti> yay
[03:39] <trulux> pitti: another one being sent
[03:40] <trulux> pitti: I think I didn't refpatch the stack so you will get a semi-fized one without the _enable check
[03:40] <trulux> one sec and I'll upload it
[03:40] <pitti> go alsa 1.0.9, go!
[03:45] <Kamion> ogra: you don't need to put "changed distribution to breezy" in the changelog
[03:45] <Kamion> it's implicit
[03:45] <pitti> trulux: I have one mail now
[03:45] <Kamion> unless there was some actual change in the package that goes further than just adding a new changelog entry :)
[03:46] <ogra> Kamion, yep, doko already told me, but i was to lazy to rip it out again, it does no harm :)
[03:46] <trulux> pitti: now it will be on http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/security/kern-security-1.patch for all time
[03:52] <AndyFitz> wait,  is evolution okay ?
[03:55] <ogra> here it is
[03:56] <AndyFitz> sweet,  thanks ogra
[04:03] <tseng|work> hi ogra
[04:05] <zyga> hello :-)
[04:05] <pitti> trulux: okay, I downloaded the patch, I'll build a new kernel
[04:06] <ogra> hey tseng|work 
[04:07] <CarlK> Kamion - mind taking 30 seconds to look at https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10974
[04:07] <CarlK> If it takes more, I can wait till later
[04:09] <Kamion> CarlK: I just coincidentally replied to it; I didn't see your IRC comment until afterwards
[04:09] <Kamion> CarlK: looks to me like you're using a hoary initrd
[04:11] <CarlK> yep.
[04:11] <CarlK> my manual one was initrd=ubuntu-breezy/initrd.gz
[04:11] <CarlK> thanks.
[04:11] <Kamion> no, what URL
[04:12] <Kamion> I'm not interested in the paths on your local filesystem. :)
[04:12] <CarlK> nuf said.. the worng one.
[04:12] <Kamion> oh, right :)
[04:12] <Kamion> ok
[04:12] <CarlK> I figured it was me
[04:13] <CarlK> 1/2 figured I would see it just creating the bug report
[04:17] <pitti> trulux: you are sure this is enabled by default now? 
[04:19] <CarlK> Kamion - it is working now, just in case there was any doubt ;)
[04:19] <tja> kamion: my grub-install patch is otherwise ready, but it uses sed to fiddle with the "# password .." line in menu.lst, and I'm unable to pass the variable inside the sed-script so that the actual password doesn't interfere (it has dollar signs most likely..)
[04:19] <Kamion> CarlK: good :)
[04:20] <Kamion> tja: um, why does it need to use sed? grub-installer generates menu.lst itself
[04:20] <tja> no it doesnt ;)
[04:20] <Kamion> note grub-installer != grub-install
[04:20] <tja> it gets the barebone version from update-grub
[04:20] <Kamion> oh, sorry, yeah, you're right
[04:20] <tja> where the password line is at
[04:20] <Kamion> confused with other *-installer packages
[04:21] <tja> so yes, I could just cat the line to the end of it, but it's not beautiful ;)
[04:21] <Kamion> you could pipe the password itself through sed to escape any metacharacters first
[04:22] <Kamion> or you could do the whole thing with 'while read' and 'case'
[04:23] <tja> ok, i'll experiment
[04:23] <Kamion> or you could use sed's 'r' command
[04:23] <Kamion> (read contents of file)
[04:24] <Kamion> that's probably the best option actually, busybox supports it
[04:24] <pitti> jordi: ping
[04:37] <jordi> pitti: pong
[04:41] <pitti> jordi: did you happen to take a look at alsa-lib 1.0.9rc3? I'm packaging it right now
[04:41] <pitti> jordi: upstream splitted off the plugins into a separate upstream tarball
[04:41] <pitti> jordi: for now I merged it back into the orig.tar.gz to not deviate from Debian too much, but in the end the source package should be split
[04:41] <pitti> jordi: is this okay for you?
[04:42] <jordi> pitti: hey hey hey
[04:43] <jordi> pitti: experimental!
[04:43] <jordi> oh, of course, we haven't uploaded plugins yet.
[04:43] <pitti> jordi: oh fuck, I should have looked earlier...
[04:43] <jordi> pitti: have a look at svn.d.o, it's all in there, but we haven't uploaded plugins yet.
[04:43] <jordi> the rest is in experimental
[04:43] <jordi> jdthood rocks
[04:44] <pitti> jordi: I don't need the plugins
[04:44] <pitti> elmo: please sync alsa-lib from experimental
[04:45] <pitti> jordi: I'm glad that I finally caught you :-) otherwise I had wasted even more time now ...
[04:45] <jordi> pitti: back in 10
[04:45] <jordi> pitti: yeah. experimental is sometimes a treasure :)
[04:55] <bluefoxicy> I need something to monitor my CPU temperature with
[04:55] <mkde> *grins*
[04:56] <bluefoxicy> when I got my amd64 a year ago someone recommended I not use lm-sensors and instead use something else that didn't need a kernel module (lm-sensors needs an i2c driver for your mobo)
[04:56] <bluefoxicy> so I had some program that was drawing graph lines around 39.5C for my CPU and 40C for my mobo
[04:56] <mkde> bluefoxicy, did you try asking in #ubuntu? They should be able to help
[04:56] <bluefoxicy> but nobody in like 5 channels on freenode knows wtf the program is
[04:57] <bluefoxicy> mkde: nobody in #ubuntu knows :(
[04:57] <bluefoxicy> I come in here because you people are sticking stuff in ubuntu so somebody here has to know if the package is in ubuntu :P
[04:58] <mkde> you didn't try lm-sensors?
[04:59] <ogra> bluefoxicy, /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/
[05:00] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  empty
[05:00] <bluefoxicy> mkde:  xsensors displays a blank screen, and crashes when i close it
[05:01] <ogra> bluefoxicy, try to load "thermal"
[05:01] <bluefoxicy> mdke:  lm-sensors. . .. I can't find the command for
[05:01] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ modprobe thermal
[05:01] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$
[05:01] <bluefoxicy> uh
[05:01] <ogra> now look again
[05:01] <JaneW> :/
[05:01] <bluefoxicy> ogra:  nothing, and I just did that as non-root
[05:01] <mkde> bluefoxicy, you can easily find a guide to lmsensors on the net i'm sure
[05:01] <ogra> bluefoxicy, oh
[05:02] <mkde> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2780&highlight=lmsensors
[05:02] <ogra> bluefoxicy, anyway, amd64 should support the thermal module (at least i havent seen one that doesnt until now)
[05:02] <bluefoxicy> mkde:  I didn't have to have it before, didn't have to configur anything beyond right-click and pick "motherboard" from a list or anything; it's not that I can or can't do it, it's just that I don't think it's appropriate to not have to do work one day and then later have to do work to get the same damn thing.  :/
[05:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: the opterons doesn't generally.
[05:03] <ogra> ah, ok, i only know amd64's so far
[05:03] <mkde> heh that lm-sensors guide is pretty good
[05:03] <mkde> need to port that to the wiki
[05:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: s/amd/athlon/ :P
[05:04] <ogra> heh :)
[05:04] <CarlK> Kamion - why did it change from /ubuntu-breezy/ to /ubuntu/?
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> wow
[05:04] <CarlK>  [19/May/2005:09:27:41 -0500]  "GET /ubuntu-breezy/pool/main/a/acpid/acpid_1.0.4-1ubuntu4_i386.deb
[05:04] <bluefoxicy> that worked, but it was way too much work :/
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> lokks much prettier than what I had before though
[05:05] <CarlK>  [19/May/2005:09:28:52 -0500]  "GET /ubuntu/dists/breezy/Release.gpg HTTP/1.1" 404
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> .  . .
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> I believe it's broken
[05:05] <bluefoxicy> as it seems to be refreshing every 500mS
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> and my mobo temp seems to be going 43, 54, 68, 32. . . . . 
[05:06] <mkde> bluefoxicy, way too much work was 2 minutes?
[05:06] <bluefoxicy> I don't think motherboard temperature can jump that far in less than a second
[05:06] <zyga> bluefoxicy: hello :-)
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> mkde:  yes.  Put your stupid mom who can barely remember how to log into windows on it (typical computer user) and you'll see.
[05:07] <zyga> bluefoxicy: insulting leads to dark side of open source
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> CPU temperature reporting is useful if you've got a laptop.
[05:07] <ogra> CarlK, ubuntu-breezy ?
[05:07] <zyga> ;] 
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  have you seen my mom?
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> she has a hard time saving files after like 10 years on the computer
[05:07] <ogra> bluefoxicy, is sh around ?
[05:07] <mkde> bluefoxicy, my mom doesn't use lm-sensors
[05:07] <zyga> bluefoxicy: no
[05:07] <bluefoxicy> she can never find them (Linux helps because they're all in the same place)
[05:08] <ogra> she even
[05:08] <zyga> bluefoxicy: but you said 'your' ;-)
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> mkde:  mine doesn't either.
[05:08] <mkde> cool
[05:08] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I've made some modifications to malloc.suxx.pl
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> heh
[05:08] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I'm going out now but I'll be back in an hour
[05:08] <CarlK> orga - I am doing a lan install CD is mounted under ubuntu-breezy
[05:08] <bluefoxicy> well at least my CPU is a stable 35C
[05:09] <bluefoxicy> what are these, 40mm fans?
[05:09] <ogra> CarlK, ahh
[05:09] <CarlK> orga - preseed has d-i     mirror/http/directory   string /ubuntu-breezy
[05:09] <CarlK> which works for a while, then it 'forgets' that setting
[05:10] <bluefoxicy> oh guys
[05:10] <bluefoxicy> should my +3.3v vcore be reading +6.59v?
[05:12] <bob2> yes, that's why it's called +3.3v
[05:14] <Kamion> CarlK: erm ... it didn't change? /ubuntu-breezy/ was your setting, not ours
[05:14] <CarlK> see the 2nd log line?
[05:14] <bluefoxicy> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bluefoxicy/sensors.png
[05:15] <CarlK> no breezy
[05:15] <Kamion> CarlK: oh, could be the second stage? is that after the first reboot?
[05:15] <CarlK> um... yoy are asking me? ;)
[05:15] <Kamion> CarlK: yes, I'm asking you what your machine is doing :-)
[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> +3.3V:     +8.16 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +8.16 V)   ALARM
[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> ^ my 3.3V is stuffed
[05:16] <Kamion> CarlK: you haven't preseeded base-config
[05:16] <pitti> trulux: kernel is ready, cross your fingers...
[05:17] <Kamion> CarlK: at least not the same way
[05:17] <Kamion> base-config     apt-setup/directory     string /ubuntu
[05:17] <Kamion> that's from your preseed file - make that /ubuntu-breezy
[05:17] <CarlK> got it
[05:18] <Kamion> CarlK: (I initially thought you meant that /ubuntu-breezy/ was a default setting or part of a URL or something, hence my brief confusion)
[05:20] <CarlK> ok, I found it.  there wasn't a hoary near it, so my "look for hoary and change things to breezy" fell apart
[05:20] <CarlK> and I figured out how to have pxeboot timeout and boot the hd, so I don't notice the reboot anymore
[05:21] <Kamion> CarlK: (how, out of curiosity?)
[05:21] <Kamion> we should document that
[05:21] <CarlK> good Q ;)
[05:21] <CarlK> I was going to try and figure out exactly what I DL from where
[05:22] <CarlK> gime a sec.. I'll post the revelant lines and you can tell me if it looks familiar
[05:23] <Kamion> it won't look familiar, I've never done this myself
[05:23] <pitti> trulux: AAAAAARGH!
[05:23] <pitti> trulux: it still doesn't work
[05:27] <tja> kamion: I have the patch ready, how do you like to have it?
[05:27] <Kamion> tja: bugzilla.ubuntu.com, component grub-installer, enhancement
[05:28] <tja> ok
[05:28] <CarlK> is the wiki "closed"?
[05:28] <Kamion> if you can't stand bugzilla, mail to cjwatson@ubuntu.com works too, but I'm more liable to forget that :)
[05:28] <CarlK> I am logged in, but can't find "edit"
[05:32] <CarlK> nm.. had to bounce around
[05:35] <dholbach> hellas!
[05:35] <ogra> hey dholbach 
[05:35] <dholbach> ogra: hey oliver! :-)
[05:35] <mako> thom: did you get to those torrents?
[05:37] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[05:37] <dholbach> mvo: hey michael :-))
[05:38] <CarlK> Kamion - find "ontimeout hdboot" on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LocalNetInstall
[05:38] <CarlK> which runs syslinux/chain.c32 hd0
[05:39] <jdub> yo dholbach 
[05:40] <dholbach> jdub: hey jeff, how are you?
[05:40] <jdub> rocking, yourself?
[05:41] <dholbach> i just introduced 20 people into the delights of keysigning parties - it was fun :-)
[05:41] <ogra> heh
[05:41] <jdub> ugh ;)
[05:41] <dholbach> jdub: ha, i knew you'd like that :-)
[05:42] <bluefox> is X broke in breezy
[05:42] <dholbach> jdub: see it that way: if i make them motus next, they even come with a decent key :-)
[05:42] <bluefox> particularly, cant find the font 'fixed'
[05:42] <bluefox> and thus refuses to start
[05:42] <jdub> bluefox: dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low xserver-xorg
[05:42] <bluefox> jdub: trying
[05:42] <jdub> and then restart X
[05:43] <dholbach> bluefox: and tell us, if you run into ctrl-key funniness
[05:43] <seb128> dholbach, jdub: so this bugs ml? :)
[05:43] <jdub> seb128: ok, lets figure this out
[05:43] <jdub> seb128: ubuntu-gnome-bugs@ ?
[05:43] <dholbach> jdub, seb128: yeah :-)
[05:43] <seb128> right, sorry to insist, but the sooner the better
[05:44] <jdub> i can do it straight away, let's just work out the best way forward
[05:44] <seb128> jdub: would be nice for the gnomish stuff out of the desktop yep
[05:44] <jdub> seb128: or perhaps just gnome-bugs@ ?
[05:44] <seb128> hum
[05:44] <jdub> we have kernel-bugs@ atm
[05:44] <seb128> we agree on the 2 lists?
[05:45] <seb128> one for the desktop and one for motu-gnome stuff?
[05:45] <dholbach> one for the gnome, i'd say
[05:45] <dholbach> s/the//
[05:45] <dholbach> and it'd have more traffic than most ubuntu-<country code> lists :-)
[05:45] <seb128> dholbach: that doesn't work, I want to read all the desktop mails, I don't care reading mails about an obscur gnomish universe stuff
[05:46] <dholbach> hrm
[05:46] <Kamion> CarlK: ah, cool
[05:46] <dholbach> jdub: your opinion?
[05:46] <seb128> that's like the user list, you read the threads and flush
[05:46] <jdub> seb128: are you interested in desktop infrastructure bugs, like, freedesktop stack stuff?
[05:46] <seb128> jdub: yep, all desktopish I would say
[05:47] <CarlK> Kamion - where are the docs for what is currently included?
[05:47] <dholbach> seb128: we'd have to assign bugs to "gnome" for universe and "desktop" for main-stuff?
[05:47] <seb128> dholbach: right
[05:47] <dholbach> seb128: and we should tell the launchpad guys over and over again that we need mail adresses for teams
[05:47] <jdub> seb128: ok, so if you're happy with desktop-bugs@ then i think we need to consider something a bit different for MOTU stuff
[05:47] <seb128> dholbach: we can't be efficient on the universe traffic
[05:47] <dholbach> i didnt figure out where to put it yet
[05:48] <jdub> dholbach: yes, yes, yes - this is how i think we should handle MOTU stuff
[05:48] <seb128> jdub: happy with desktop = all the desktop stuff - kde
[05:48] <dholbach> dholbach, seb128: one for WHOLE UNIVERSE?
[05:48] <seb128> dholbach: stop speaking to yourself, big freak :)
[05:48] <Kamion> CarlK: what do you mean?
[05:48] <jdub> dholbach: madness. :-)
[05:48] <dholbach> would be good for a bug-bot though
[05:48] <jdub> dholbach: launchpad team aliases for bugs
[05:49] <dholbach> seb128: stop stopping me from something :-)
[05:49] <jdub> so if there's a "universe gnome" team, it can have a bugs alias
[05:49] <seb128> jdub: how the alias works?
[05:49] <jdub> in launchpad, could be as easy as checking the "i am interested in this team's bugs" box :-)
[05:50] <CarlK> Kamion - syslinux/chain.c32 was something I added, but maybe the current pxe "thing" has something similar
[05:50] <dholbach> jdub: if we had that...
[05:50] <Mithrandir> I wonder how many different kinds of drinks (coffee, tea, beer) launchpad will be able to make.
[05:50] <jdub> seb128: team has a package on its list, bug mail sort through who needs to get each mail, etc.
[05:50] <seb128> jdub: have you already tried malone? You can't even search for bugs or comment while closing a bug atm...
[05:50] <seb128> not sure on how long it will take to get the nice features
[05:50] <jdub> seb128: gotta get our use cases on their agenda :-)
[05:51] <seb128> right
[05:51] <jdub> brb, reading specs for a sec :)
[05:51] <seb128> and figure a way to work now too :)
[05:51] <seb128> k
[05:51] <jdub> for now, i'm happy to do desktop-bugs@
[05:51] <dholbach> tried it again: no way to add a mail adress to a team
[05:51] <Kamion> CarlK: not aware of any documentation of what's there at the moment
[05:52] <Kamion> CarlK: apart from whatever's in the syslinux package
[05:54] <tja> kamion: "you got mail" ;)
[05:54] <mkde> mako, got a moment?
[05:55] <seb128> jdub: ok, let's do it
[05:55] <seb128> jdub: what do we do for bugzilla? list as QA?
[05:56] <jdub> seb128: yeah
[05:56] <jdub> seb128: un momente :)
[05:56] <seb128> feel free to give me admin rights I can do this
[05:56] <seb128> there is also a couple of GNOME stuff assigned to debzilla atm
[05:57] <Kamion> tja: yup, saw it, thanks
[05:57] <tja> np
[05:58] <tja> should it work if I just opened the g-i.udeb for hoary and applied the patch?
[05:58] <jdub> seb128: you'll get an email in a sec about list creation - ignore it for the moment
[05:58] <seb128> k
[06:00] <Kamion> tja: yes, although if I were you I'd just rebuild it instead - grub-installer.udeb isn't hard to build, and it doesn't matter much what environment you build it in
[06:02] <ogra> MOTU meeting starts now....
[06:04] <jdub> seb128: you're set to go in bugzilla and mailman :)
[06:04] <seb128> thanks :)
[06:07] <mako> mdz: yes
[06:07] <mako> sorry
[06:12] <jdub> thom: http://www.livejournal.com/users/kernelslacker/12170.html
[06:12] <mvo> mjg59: around? a friend of mine is asking for help with his evo laptop. it looks like it don't support s3 or s4
[06:12] <tja> kamion: not so easy to test, because either way the mdsum is different so the installer won't accept the patched version ;)
[06:13] <tja> but it should work, tried it with a test script
[06:13] <jdub> ha ha ha
[06:13] <jdub> "Something else that's been done in quite a few daemons on fc4 is not starting them by default."
[06:13] <jdub> *tap*tap*tap* ... is this thing on?
[06:13] <jdub> :-)
[06:15] <Kamion> tja: yeah, you need to tweak the md5sum in Packages and Packages.gz, then regenerate Release, and probably remove Release.gpg. it's awkward
[06:16] <CarlK> Kamion - looks like the "boot local drive" can be done without any new files... I'll let you know when I have it working
[06:18] <tja> Kamion: sound like great fun
[06:26] <Kamion> tja: in practice I tend to just edit bits of shell script on the fly during installation, but the chief case where that doesn't work is if you have new debconf templates (there's no easy way to tell cdebconf about them)
[06:27] <tja> i've done that as well
[06:28] <tja> but in this case it is close to impossible, because it is a postinst-script..
[06:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, is that something we want to be fixed?  I imagine it would be easy enough to fix?
[06:30] <Kamion> tja: hardly impossible - /var/lib/dpkg/info/grub-installer.postinst
[06:30] <Kamion> I edit postinsts all the time
[06:30] <Thom_Holwerda> ah the topic is the answer to my question :)
[06:30] <Thom_Holwerda> installed the breezy updates but it messed me system up, but the topic explains why :)
[06:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, I'd like to figure out exactly why it doesn't work - it's something to do with the exact times at which cdebconf loads and saves
[06:31] <tja> kamion: ah, of course.. need to lower debconf-priority to catch that
[06:31] <Kamion> tja: why so?
[06:31] <trulux> back from class
[06:32] <tja> now it just churns along until it tries to boot
[06:32] <tja> ;)
[06:32] <Kamion> tja: grub-installer is unpacked quite early on in the installation, at "retrieving installer components" - you've got *loads* and *loads* of time to edit it
[06:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you'd need to send it USR1 to save, then edit, then USR2 to reload or something.
[06:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the X_SAVE command is better ...
[06:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: anna uses X_LOADTEMPLATEFILE or similar - we should just provide a simple command-line interface to that and make it work properly
[06:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you need to talk to the running cdebconf, though.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> hmm
[06:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, true
[06:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: cdebconf could have a fifo or unix socket it listened to for random commands.
[06:34] <Kamion> I *knew* you were going to say that. :-)
[06:35] <Mithrandir> I was actually going to suggest something far more evil.  Multiple simultaneous frontend support.
[06:35] <Mithrandir> that's a lot harder to get right, though.
[06:35] <Kamion> that would be better - there are use cases now for running full-screen cdebconf stuff on tty2
[06:35] <Kamion> anna-install does that
[06:36] <Mithrandir> it should be _possible_.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> I just wonder how you'd handle the case where you had two frontends which are both interactive.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> you might need to say "hey, refresh" to one of them.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> but that's doable.
[06:36] <jnc> does anyone else find troublesome the "Ctrl+X" shortcut in evolution is set up to send the message?
[06:36] <Mithrandir> to a certain degree.
[06:37] <jnc> like, the shortcuts are all changed.  what's going on, i wonder
[06:38] <jnc> ctrl+L  no longer activates the location dialog as it used to, even though the shortcut is there in the menu
[06:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, that should be doable, shouldn't it?  Just call the frontends in a non-blocking loop and ask them "ARE WE THERE YET?" until you get a "yea" back.
[06:39] <seb128> jnc: bugzilla usually knows about bugs
[06:40] <seb128> this one is a xorg issue
[06:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: scares me though :)
[06:40] <Kamion> somebody else can do that ...
[06:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: why?  Because it involves ripping apart cdebconf?
[06:41] <Kamion> oh, yeah, only the most critical piece of code in the installer
[06:41] <Mithrandir> well, cdebconf is easy.
[06:41] <Kamion> and I have a *lot* of other things to do. :-)
[06:41] <Mithrandir> and nice and fairly tidy.
[06:42] <Mithrandir> but then, I should be writing my thesis.  And moving.
[06:43] <jnc> seb128: 'k
[06:43] <jnc> seb128: i was wondering, since the shortcuts are all crazy-like :0
[06:43] <jnc> thanks
[06:44] <jnc> i keep hitting ctrl+x today and sending emails before they're finished! :-P
[06:44] <jnc> my co-workers are wondering what is wrong w/ me
[06:47] <trygvebw> what's freepascal called in Ubuntu?
[06:49] <Mithrandir> fpk-*, I think (but it doesn't exist for amd64, so I'm not sure)
[06:50] <trygvebw> okay :)
[06:50] <trygvebw> thanks :)
[06:50] <Mithrandir> apt-cache search free pascal ought to tell you.
[06:51] <trygvebw> ok
[06:51] <trygvebw> no results :/
[06:54] <trygvebw> looks like there is no freepascal package in universe :/
[06:56] <dholbach> you could put it on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[06:57] <trygvebw> okay :)
[06:57] <trygvebw> i'll do that
[06:57] <dholbach> ROCK! :-)
[06:57] <trygvebw> :p
[06:59] <trygvebw> so i'll just add it to the list along with a small description?
[06:59] <dholbach> and add the homepage
[06:59] <dholbach> and maybe why you think it rocks and we really should have it
[06:59] <trygvebw> ok
[07:02] <tja> kamion: the patch doesn't work ;) there's at least one typo
[07:05] <trygvebw> added
[07:21] <dholbach> bye mvo
[07:24] <tja> oh what a difference one slash in a wrong place does..
[07:24] <tja> kamion: it works now ;)
[07:28] <svenl> Kamion: can it be that ubuntu-installer or liveCD has trouble with atkbd ?
[07:28] <svenl> Kamion: i didn notice, but itr seems my at keyboard doesnt react on pegasos. USB does work though.
[07:31] <Kamion> svenl: any particular version?
[07:33] <svenl> Kamion: hoary live CD, as found on the DVD.
[07:34] <svenl> Kamion: BTRW, i suppose the super-DVD does include the sources also ? 
[07:37] <Kamion> svenl: weird, it's got the right versions of stuff to be able to deal with atkbd ...
[07:37] <Kamion> svenl: no, it's a combined install/live DVD, I don't think sources fit
[07:37] <Kamion> although I could be wrong there, I didn't try to bludgeon debian-cd into doing that
[07:37] <Kamion> and atkbd is in input-modules too ...
[07:38] <svenl> maybe my board isflakey.
[07:38] <svenl> it keeps crashing, will have to try again.
[07:38] <svenl> Kamion: do you want a forth script to emulate the yaboot stuff ?
[07:38] <svenl> Kamion: there is 1.5 Gb free on the DVD on powerpc.
[07:38] <Kamion> svenl: yes, and sources for just the normal install CD take up *four CDs*
[07:38] <Kamion> so that suggests it won't fit
[07:38] <svenl> Kamion: too bad it doesn fit.
[07:38] <Kamion> svenl: forth> yeah, that would be cool, thanks
[07:38] <svenl> remember me your email address.
[07:38] <svenl> Kamion: (smoe routine on it is a of dubious freeness, since it was inspired from some code publicly posted on some japanese apple forum.
[07:39] <svenl> ok, live CD is starting ubuntu.
[07:40] <svenl> Kamion: also, what is the relationship between ubuntu and kubuntu CD/DVD wise ? 
[07:40] <jdub> they are like sisters
[07:41] <jdub> mostly the same, but one is shorter with a crooked nose
[07:41] <svenl> jdub: :)
[07:41] <svenl> jdub: the question being if kubuntu can also be installed from the combined DVD, and if so how ?
[07:41] <haggai> jdub: yeah you really should get a proper nose job for gnome
[07:41] <jdub> the kubuntu CDs have different packages on them
[07:42] <jdub> i don't think you can install kubuntu directly from the DVD
[07:42] <svenl> jdub: so you could fit kubuntu in the combined DVD also, and an additional kubuntu live image too ? 
[07:42] <svenl> (having 1.5 GB free).
[07:42] <svenl> Mmm. I think my board is having some stability problems, will try another one.
[07:43] <jdub> unless i'm smoking really bad crack, the DVD already has all of the KDE stuff on it (being in main)
[07:43] <jdub> but a kubuntu DVD would have a kubuntu live image and be set up to install kubuntu by default
[07:45] <svenl> jdub: well, it would be set to propose both ubuntu and kubuntu, and the ability to use boath images.
[07:47] <Kamion> svenl: cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[07:47] <jdub> ogra: plastic surgery
[07:47] <Kamion> jdub: it's not all of main, it's only Ubuntu supported
[07:47] <jdub> svenl: that would be ooky
[07:47] <ogra> lol
[07:47] <Kamion> we have a separate Kubuntu DVD
[07:47] <jdub> Kamion: ahr, that is different
[07:48] <jdub> ogra: it's not something sexual that involves noses (this is a common misconception)
[07:48] <ogra> hehe
[07:48] <svenl> Kamion: atkbd was wrong alarm, works fine on another board, i guess thefirmware test board is dying out.
[07:49] <Kamion> ah, ok
[07:50] <svenl> Kamion: would not both ubuntu and kubuntu fit on the same DVD ? 
[07:51] <hunger> Why was mozilla-firefox renamed to firefox?
[07:51] <jdub> hunger: trademark issues
[07:51] <hunger> That's tricky of those mozilla guys!
[07:52] <hunger> "Hey, firefox db people we will call it mozilla-firefox, no worry"
[07:52] <hunger> and then they "force" people to drop the mozilla- later on.
[07:53] <zyga> firefox package got renamed?
[07:54] <Kamion> er, dude, it was the fire*bird* database
[07:55] <Kamion> that's why firebird was renamed to firefox
[07:55] <hunger> Kamion: Oh...
[07:55] <Kamion> svenl: don't think so, although I haven't done the exact maths
[08:03] <svenl> Kamion: bad.
[08:03] <wasabi_> Man ya'll rock.
[08:03] <wasabi_> It's like, everybody I talk to lately is like "oh I use Ubuntu!"
[08:03] <svenl> Kamion: altough i guess if there is 1.5GB free, this is two CDs worth of stuff.
[08:03] <wasabi_> Totally unrelated channels and things.
[08:03] <svenl> Kamion: live cd worked on peg.
[08:04] <svenl> Kamion: i just put the menu (modified for netboot) and the generated vmlinuz on my tftp server, put the DVD in the drive, and booted.
[08:05] <CarlK> svenl - what is peg?
[08:05] <svenl> CarlK: the pegasos computer : http://www.pegasosppc.com
[08:06] <CarlK> svenl - got it.  
[08:07] <CarlK> svenl - and you are running the live DVD over a lan?
[08:07] <svenl> nope.
[08:07] <svenl> only booting the kernel+initrd, altough i believe the lan would be faster than the shitty DVD drive i was using.
[08:08] <svenl> (it died when i started openoffice).
[08:08] <CarlK> svenl - ah, just as a way to boot the DVD?
[08:08] <svenl> CarlK: yes, since we don quite support yaboot yet.
[08:08] <CarlK> is that what knoppix uses?
[08:12] <ogra> CarlK, yaboot is ppc's bootloader
[08:12] <svenl> Kamion: do you have some kind of CD/DVD media label or whatever that graphic thing is called, which can be used to print such DVDs ? 
[08:12] <svenl> (and are there any kind of legalese issues involved in it ?)
[08:13] <ogra> CarlK, (and pegasos is not apple ;) thus it makes some problems)
[08:13] <Kamion> svenl: I don't, no idea if we do
[08:13] <svenl> Kamion: i mean, we are interested in giving out such a ubuntu DVD with each pegasos board we sell or something such.
[08:13] <svenl> Kamion: i guess the ones you give out come with something, when you order them ? 
[08:13] <Kamion> svenl: you might ask info@canonical.com, they might have a clue
[08:13] <svenl> Kamion: who would be the best person to ask about this ? 
[08:13] <svenl> ok.
[08:14] <CarlK> ogra  thanks
[08:14] <Kamion> svenl: er actually make that info@ubuntu.com, not sure if they're the same people
[08:14] <svenl> ogra, CarlK : the pegasos is more akin to IBM rs6k chrp boxes than powermacs, all being chrp though, so the same code should work on all of them.
[08:15] <ogra> shuld :)
[08:15] <ogra> +o
[08:15] <svenl> ogra, CarlK but the yaboot is sucha shity code base that it has ugly apple specific hacks. And we have some bug with reading from isos in our OF i am currently fixing.
[08:15] <svenl> Kamion: cool.
[08:18] <svenl> Kamion: who is behind info@ubuntu.com ?
[08:20] <svenl> Kamion: can i use preseeding to make the install default to nobootloader ?
[08:20] <Kamion> svenl: behind it> don't know the current set of people
[08:21] <Kamion> svenl: preseeding> the only way I can think of is to use an early_command to 'ln -s /bin/false /var/lib/dpkg/info/yaboot-installer.isinstallable'
[08:22] <svenl> I think i would need to fix the nobootloader package to install and call mkvmlinuz, and preseed u-i to call nobootloader instead of yaboot-installer, and it should work.
[08:23] <svenl> apart from the gigabit ethernet driver, but that is something i don want to meddle with.
[08:23] <\sh> svenl: what about the sponsorship with gentoo?
[08:24] <svenl> \sh: what about it ? 
[08:26] <svenl> \sh: i mean, the gentoo folk sell our machines from their web site, but the main distro running on the machines have always been debian, and will be as long as i am involved in it.
[08:26] <svenl> \sh: but the current sorry state of debian/sarge X packages means that it is not possible for me to easily give out debian with the machine, if i don want to get into loads of problems.
[08:27] <svenl> I will see if i can fix sarge once it is released and provide our own version, but ubuntu is nice to give out to the unsuspecting users out there.
[08:27] <Kamion> svenl: r27729 should make the necessary preseeding less gory in the future
[08:28] <svenl> Kamion: r27729 of what ? 
[08:28] <Kamion> d-i
[08:28] <svenl> Oh. Ok.
[08:28] <\sh> svenl: wasn't it morphos as default?
[08:29] <svenl> i mailed info@, let see what they reply.
[08:29] <svenl> \sh: well.
[08:29] <svenl> \sh: morphos is nice and all, but i am a linux guy, so ...
[08:29] <\sh> svenl: so u r not directly connected to genesi?
[08:30] <Kamion> svenl: do you think merging my yaboot-installer stuff for Pegasos back to Debian would be a good idea? The main concern I have is that it would be awkward if your Open Firmware revision is too old to support yaboot.
[08:30] <svenl> \sh: also i think all the morphos guys are kind of interested in a working linux stuff.
[08:30] <Kamion> I suppose if I could check the OF revision in some way from debian/isinstallable, that would be workable.
[08:30] <svenl> Kamion: i would merge it but not enable it.
[08:30] <svenl> Kamion: yes.
[08:30] <Kamion> svenl: so leave out chrp_pegasos from the subarchitecture line, you mean?
[08:30] <Kamion> can do
[08:31] <svenl> Kamion: tomorrow or this WE, i will mail you with some info to check the OF revision. I was thinking about exact that this afternoon :)
[08:31] <Kamion> or indeed I could let you boot with yaboot-installer/skip=false or similar on Pegasos
[08:31] <svenl> \sh: nope.
[08:31] <\sh> svenl: i was a bit concernced about the writings on morphos websites concerning payments from genesi...it's not a good PR work
[08:31] <svenl> \sh: i have been working for genesi this past years to do linux/debian/open-source/whatever port and user support.
[08:32] <svenl> \sh: well, the truth is that the morphos guys decided to commit collective suicide some month ago, and there where lot of internal disagreement.
[08:33] <svenl> \sh: and the one guy behind those website you talk about, was doing so without the accortd of the rest of the team, and was not really honest about his claims anyway.
[08:33] <svenl> \sh: who are you anyway ? 
[08:33] <ogra> heh
[08:34] <svenl> ogra: :)
[08:34] <ogra> svenl, \sh is one of our upcoming MOTUs
[08:34] <svenl> dict MOTUs ...
[08:34] <ivoks> uh...
[08:34] <ivoks> fight? :)
[08:34] <\sh> svenl: just a critical reviewer of OSS universe ;)
[08:34] <\sh> ivoks: no :) 
[08:34] <svenl> \sh: morphos is all but OSS though.
[08:35] <ogra> svenl, the guy you can poke for kubuntu-universe stuff in the future ;)
[08:35] <svenl> ogra: oh.
[08:35] <\sh> svenl: well...I just got in contact with this story, when gentoo started over with their pegasos selling things...
[08:36] <svenl> ogra: what does the MOTU stand for ? 
[08:36] <svenl> Master Of The Universe ?
[08:36] <ogra> we are the MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE !
[08:36] <svenl> \sh: well.
[08:36] <ogra> yeah
[08:36] <svenl> i found it all by my self :)
[08:36] <ogra> we expand the universe ;)
[08:36] <ivoks> masters, masters... master of puppets...
[08:36] <\sh> MOTU is everything...MOTU is the way of life...MOTU is the mother of all broken hearts and ex- and going to be ex- ISH employees
[08:37] <svenl> \sh: well, it is old story, and well, if a closed group like the morphos guys start infighting, you get this kind of stuff.
[08:37] <ivoks> herve: welcome :)
[08:37] <ivoks> herve: i knew you will come
[08:37] <\sh> svenl: that's the reason why I'm asking questions :)
[08:38] <svenl> \sh: i think their discussion was open, but they kicked out their bad elements, and are sailing forward again.
[08:38] <\sh> always trying to find the real truth behind all rumors
[08:38] <\sh> btw...at least for one day, hurd was ready to run ;)
[08:38] <svenl> \sh: still, they are a closed source OS, and of little interest to me :)
[08:40] <\sh> svenl: but i'm interessted in this pegasos thingy...
[08:42] <svenl> \sh: interestedin what ways ? And maybe we should go discuss this privately ? 
[08:43] <surak> Kamion:
[08:44] <surak> Some machines do not reboot correctly with ubuntu-live
[08:44] <Kamion> surak: hi. bad timing I'm afraid, I've got to run - my fiancee just lost her engagement ring down the sink and I need to go and resolve the panic
[08:45] <ogra> argh
[08:45] <Kamion> surak: can you mail me with details? cjwatson@ubuntu.com - that way I can respond during my daytime, since we don't seem to be syncing up very well with timezones
[08:46] <surak> This is due to old microcode.
[08:46] <Kamion> check whether the various reboot= flags help
[08:46] <Kamion> I know some laptops need reboot=b
[08:47] <surak> if you update the microcode, it reboots correctly.
[08:52] <CarlK> is there a command to "reboot now, don't unmount/shutdown anything" ?
[08:53] <CarlK> if there is, I can stop pulling the power cord
[08:53] <herve> carlK, try the power button!
[08:54] <CarlK> herve - that runs some shutdown script
[08:55] <CarlK> and pulling the plug is quicker than holding it down for 5-10 seconds
[08:55] <ogra> disable the script ;)
[08:55] <surak> Breezy does not run on sis videocards...
[08:56] <zyga> surak: are you sure?
[08:56] <zyga> surak: I've got a sis mobo with built in video card
[08:56] <surak> at least the one I'm trying here
[08:56] <zyga> surak: I run hoary though
[08:56] <surak> hoary is ok
[08:56] <zyga> surak: breezy does not run much stuff ATM :>
[08:56] <surak> breezy is not
[08:57] <zyga> s/run/run correctly on/
[09:01] <CarlK> on the live cd, is sources.list RO or can it be edited?
[09:01] <CarlK> apparently all my live CD's are somewhere safe
[09:02] <surak> CarlK: it can be edited (i just erased it)
[09:02] <CarlK> heh
[09:02] <CarlK> thanks
[09:03] <CarlK> so for a "tech", it is easy enough to add repos?
[09:03] <CarlK> I should just burn one and see for myself...
[09:05] <surak> you can add a repo. have in mind the fact that it puts everything on ram when running live (kinda oubvious though)
[09:05] <CarlK> yeah - I did this:
[09:05] <CarlK> http://dabodev.com/wiki/LiveCDDaboDemo
[09:06] <CarlK> and on the topic of virus scanning using Captive NTFS was sugesting that it is easy enought to add repos (becase I thought I had) and some said " on live-cd  it is NOT easy to install any repo. "
[09:06] <CarlK> but before I dispute that, "I" need to do it
[09:07] <CarlK> not that I don't trust you, but I want to be able to list what I did, not what I heard
[09:08] <CarlK> I suppose if you had said "No, you can't, it is RO" then I would have seen what the problem is
[09:08] <ogra> but the synaptic way isnt hard at all...
[09:09] <CarlK> even better
[09:10] <CarlK> woo.. just got pxe to boot the local drive with no extra files
[09:13] <herve> CarlK: keep the power button pushed for several seconds
[09:14] <CarlK> herve - I don't have that many extra seconds, plug is quicker  ;)
[09:14] <zyga> CarlK: why do you want to do that BTW?
[09:14] <zyga> CarlK: not syncing drives can hurt alot ;] 
[09:14] <ogra> liveCd testing
[09:15] <CarlK> live CD and installing where I am goint to let the install wipe the HD clean
[09:15] <herve> CarlK: you'll just burn you power supply... if you're lucky!
[09:15] <CarlK> pulling the plug is bad for the PS?
[09:15] <stuNNed> human icons seems buggy i'm guessing
[09:18] <dholbach> hey bob2 
[09:29] <dholbach> see you guys tomorrow
[09:29] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[09:31] <seb128> 'night dholbach 
[09:31] <dholbach> bye seb128 :-)
[09:31] <dholbach> *wave*
[09:31] <surak> night
[09:31] <seb128> see you tomorrow :)
[09:31] <seb128> daniel :)
[09:51] <lamont> Kamion: you around?
[09:52] <surak> lamont: Kamion seems to be looking for his fianc engagement ring inside the plumbing :-)
[09:53] <ogra> lamont, he's LOTR today
[09:53] <Treenaks> ogra: Gollum?
[09:53] <lamont> oh.  that's no fun./
[09:53] <ogra> Treenaks, *g*
[09:53] <herve> :)
[09:53] <surak> ogra: LOTR?
[09:53] <ogra> surak, lord of the ring
[09:53] <surak> oh! :-)
[09:58] <\sh> Treenaks: in the "non-translated version" *phew*
[09:58] <Treenaks> \sh: that;s the only one we get here in .nl
[09:58] <Treenaks> \sh: maybe some subtitles.. but no dubbing
[09:58] <\sh> 200 people in the cinema :) and sold out
[09:59] <Treenaks> uh mine had ~80 places left :)
[09:59] <\sh> Treenaks: official start for germany is today :)
[09:59] <Treenaks> (but it was the 17:00-19:30 show.. so nobody came: everybody wanted dinner ;))
[10:05] <\sh> woot?
[10:06] <\sh> mvo: cud12k-01.ish.de ?
[10:06] <\sh> wow
[10:06] <mvo> hey \sh 
[10:06] <\sh> mvo: u never said u our customer ;)
[10:06] <\sh> +r
[10:06] <mvo> \sh: I didn't knew that your work for ish
[10:07] <\sh> mvo: ok..so i could bug u for a alpha test for new cable profiles :)
[10:07] <mvo> \sh: interessting, what is this about :) ?
[10:07] <\sh> I like it :) really...the ubuntu world is really small
[10:09] <ogra> \sh, oh, didnt i tell you ?
[10:09] <\sh> ogra: no :)
[10:10] <\sh> ogra: but good to know where to find beta test candidates ;)
[10:38] <ddaa> hey seb128
[10:39] <ddaa> where is pygtk hosted nowaday? I see no pygtk module in the gnome.org viewcvs.
[10:39] <seb128> it's on cvs.gnome.org
[10:40] <seb128> gnome-python/pygtk IIRC
[10:40] <ddaa> hu...
[10:41] <ddaa> okay... gnome-python is just a placeholder...
[10:41] <ddaa> another CVS perversion
[10:43] <ddaa> seb128: thanks
[10:44] <seb128> np
[10:47] <ddaa> btw, any idea where is gdk-pixbuf?
[10:47] <ddaa> and any idea WFT is gdk-engine in the gnome cvs? Is that used at all?
[10:47] <svenl> Mm, is there somewhere to complain a bout bad translation or should i do a real bug report /
[10:48] <jdub> ddaa: it's the old gdk pixbuf engine for gtk+ 1.x
[10:48] <jdub> ddaa: it shouldn'
[10:48] <jdub> ddaa: it shouldn't be on your priority list
[10:48] <svenl> us keyboard without dead keys is translated in gnome keyboard choser as clavier us avec eliminee des cle mortes, which sucks.
[10:48] <svenl> should be clavier us sans touches mortes.
[10:49] <ddaa> jdub: I stumbled on it because it was the cvs module specified in the gdk-pixbuf info file.
[10:49] <ddaa> My conscience told me something was wrong.
[10:49] <ddaa> So, I still do not have a location for gdk-pixbuf
[10:50] <jdub> don't worry about it
[10:50] <jdub> it's old and irrelevant
[10:51] <ddaa> jdub: gdk-pixbuf is on the priority list sent by mdz
[10:51] <ddaa> as a package which has patches in ubuntu
[10:54] <jdub> and you're not summarising the name there? you mean precisely the "gdk-pixbuf" *source* package?
[10:55] <ddaa> yes
[10:56] <ddaa> at least, in my understanding mdz sent us a list of source package (it contains "pygtk" and not "python-gtk")
[10:57] <ddaa> "there is no CVS repository for that old piece of crap" is a valid answer
[11:10] <CarlK> LiveCD - does c-a-bs restart X or reboot the whole box?
[11:10] <surak> nice question - let me try
[11:11] <CarlK> I just spent 10 min loading up the nvida drivers, and I really don't want to do that part again
[11:11] <CarlK> trying to see if the Live CD can be used to debug an nv problme
[11:11] <surak> booting it now.
[11:11] <CarlK> plan B is init 1 && init 5 (i think)(
[11:12] <surak> telinit 3 ; telinit 5 :-)
[11:12] <CarlK> yeah, that
[11:12] <surak> CarlK: just a minute
[11:12] <CarlK> thanks
[11:15] <surak> still booting..
[11:15] <surak> btw, it took almost the same time another machine ran the installation :-)
[11:15] <CarlK> hmm
[11:16] <CarlK> I cold burn another CD and boot something...
[11:16] <CarlK> or find my 3 other CDs that are somewhere safe
[11:16] <surak> c-a-bs now
[11:16] <CarlK> or read email while yours boots
[11:16] <surak> only X
[11:16] <CarlK> thanks
[11:16] <surak> it went to gdm
[11:16] <surak> wait
[11:16] <CarlK> heh
[11:16] <surak> yes, gdm
[11:17] <surak> it logged in automatically (I thought it would stop there)
[11:18] <CarlK> here we go...
[11:24] <surak> Calk: what happened?
[11:24] <surak> CarlK: sorry, typo
[11:34] <CarlK> got the nv spash screen
[11:34] <surak> and?
[11:34] <CarlK> waiting for the 1/2x cd... ;)
[11:34] <CarlK> P2-333, 128meg, no clue what the CD really is
[11:36] <CarlK> know of a repoisatory that has a Captive NTFS packcage?
[11:37] <surak> no
[11:39] <CarlK> now opening term...
[11:39] <CarlK> Zzzzz
[11:40] <pitti> Good evening
[11:40] <surak> hello
[11:40] <ogra> hey pitti 
[11:40] <\sh> holla pitti
[11:42] <Riddell> is there a written policy for what goes in hoary-updates?
[11:43] <CarlK> "yes" ;)
[11:43] <CarlK> I saw something like that on a wiki
[11:43] <CarlK> no clue where
[11:44] <jdub> Riddell: major bugfixes
[11:44] <jdub> Riddell: like "hardware destroyed by software", "plague and famine" and "erased disk when I clicked cancel"
[11:46] <Riddell> jdub: I'm gettings lots of people complaining that MSN doesn't work since microsoft upgraded their servers and peole saying it should be fixed in hoary, would be useful to have something written to say that it's not going to happen
[11:46] <\sh> Riddell: answer: use jabberme.net with psi and register to msn transport :)
[11:47] <surak> Riddel: gaim seems to work fine (i'm on it right now)
[11:47] <CarlK> does hoary-updates include other repositories?
[11:47] <\sh> .oO(we should build a ubuntu jabber server)
[11:47] <CarlK> asa in what does/doesn't go in
[11:47] <Riddell> surak: yeah, seems to have only affected kopete 
[11:48] <Riddell> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10993
[11:48] <jdub> Riddell: that sounds like a pretty reasonable bug
[11:48] <jdub> Riddell: you need approval from mdz or Kamion 
[11:48] <\sh> Riddell: wasn't there an update to kopete cause of this behaviour?
[11:48] <jdub> Riddell: and get some people to test your package, yada yada
[11:51] <moyogo> hi, i'd like to know more about the xhosa localization
[11:52] <moyogo> i'm interested in doing something similar in lingala, a language of the RDC
[11:53] <jdub> moyogo: Adi can answer questions for you -> adi@canonical.com
[11:53] <jdub> moyogo: she managed the xhosa project
[11:53] <moyogo> thanks
[11:54] <moyogo> I've also done a keymap with lots of african specific characters, i dunno if they'd be interested
[11:54] <jdub> cool, let adi know about that too :)
[11:55] <moyogo> okay, i'm writing an email then