[12:09] <doko> elmo, any chance to move some more libs to main?
[12:09] <elmo> doko: I've been doing them?
[12:09] <elmo> as they come up
[12:09] <elmo> any ones in particular?
[12:10] <doko> id3lib3.8.3, needed for fltk
[12:10] <elmo> did that a while ago
[12:10] <doko> ok, thanks
[12:10] <jbailey> back in a few hours.
[12:45] <doko> ok, going to sleep
[12:47] <doko> elmo, Kamion: could you move libgcj-dev to main, it's a (not yet) build-dep to db4.2. as an alternative, java-gcj-compat would be ok. at least we do need the Java support for OOo2.
[12:47] <doko> good night
[12:48] <fabbione> night doko
[12:54] <doko> one more upload ....
[01:18] <Kamion> doko: I think I probably technically have the ability to do it at the moment, but I'd rather leave universe->main promotion to elmo
[02:06] <lamont-away> moo
[03:47] <daniels> doko: libx11-dev is depended upon by xlibs-dev
[03:48] <daniels> jbailey: fonts *were* split out a while back
[03:49] <daniels> doko: the main thing we gain is that eventually we'll end up with lots of tiny packages, almost all of which never, ever change
[03:49] <daniels> so uploads to X packages are really small and easy to do
[03:50] <daniels> lamont: that's not a missing Depends on SDL, that's a missing -I/usr/X11R6/include, BTW
[04:48] <minghua> Hi, a c++ transition question:  If a source package foo build libfoo1 and libfoo1-dev, I know I should rename libfoo1 to libfoo1c2, but do I need to rename libfoo1-dev to libfoo1c2-dev as well?
[04:49] <minghua> I think not, since the API is not changed
[04:49] <minghua> but just to make sure
[04:49] <daniels> nope
[04:51] <minghua> daniels: good to have confirmation, thanks
[05:12] <lamont> daniels: woot
[05:24] <lamont> r128_driver.c:98:29: extensions/dpms.h: No such file or directory
[05:24] <lamont> make[8] : *** [r128_driver.o]  Error 1
[05:24] <lamont> make[8] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/xorg-6.8.2/build-tree/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/ati'
[05:25] <lamont> daniels: thoughts on making xorg compile on hppa?
[05:26] <lamont> that's in -156
[05:26] <lamont> -15
[05:26] <daniels> -16 will fix it
[05:32] <lamont> thank you.  when will that be?
[05:32] <lamont> or can I get a -15.1 from you?
[05:32] <lamont> (doesn't need to be uploaded immediately, mind you...)
[05:33] <daniels> -16 will be by the end of today
[05:33] <daniels> more modularisation, merging from gravity
[05:33] <daniels> the easy fix is to:
[05:33] <daniels> fakeroot debian/rules clean setup
[05:34] <daniels> cd build-tree/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/ati
[05:34] <daniels> cp r128_driver.c{,.orig}
[05:34] <daniels> vim r128_driver.c
[05:34] <daniels> %s/extensions\/dpms\.h/X11\/&/
[05:34] <daniels> :wq
[05:34] <daniels> cd ../../../../../../
[05:34] <daniels> diff -urN xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/ati/r128_driver.c{.orig,} > ../debian/patches/999_lamont_special.diff
[05:34] <daniels> cd ..
[05:34] <daniels> debuild -us -uc -b
[05:42] <lamont> woot
[06:01] <lamont> heh.. missed one ../ :-)
[06:01] <daniels> oops
[06:09] <lamont> np
[06:17] <fabbione> morning
[06:17] <fabbione>  /usr/include/linux/pci.h:453: error: parse error before 'pci_power_t'
[06:17] <fabbione> crap
 Hi, I've got a problem for c++ transition of arpack++
 In configure I get:
 checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
 configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
 See `config.log' for more details.
 make: *** [build]  Error 1
 and /lib/cpp is a symlink to /usr/bin/cpp-4.0
 nothing seems related in config.log, the last lines:
 #ifdef __cplusplus
 extern "C" void std::exit (int) throw (); using std::exit;
 configure: exit 1
[06:19] <minghua> I asked in #ubuntu-motu but got no reply.  Any insights here?
[06:19] <fabbione> ops
[06:19] <fabbione> ECHAN
[06:19] <fabbione> ops
[06:19] <fabbione> no
[06:20] <fabbione> jbailey: i really really need a good l-k-h
[06:20] <lamont> nice, but strange
[06:21] <fabbione> xorg is FTBFS on sparc
[06:21] <lamont> r128_driver.c?
[06:21] <fabbione> nope.. the above
[06:21] <fabbione> l-k-h related
[06:21] <fabbione> not sure if it will fail later
[06:27] <lamont> hrm... I got 5.5MB into the logfile
[06:27] <fabbione> 3.3 here
[06:27] <fabbione> i think
[06:28] <fabbione> 5656 -rw-r--r--  1 sparcbuildd sparcbuildd 5776501 May 19 01:50 xorg_6.8.2-15_20050518-2215
[06:28] <fabbione> but what gets builded changes quite a lot between arches
[06:28] <lamont> true
[06:28] <daniels> sparc doesn't build r128 anyway
[06:29] <daniels> i'm wondering why it wasn't ftbfs on i386, amd64 or powerpc, which all built r128
[06:39] <fabbione> where is jbailey?
[06:39] <lamont> given that it's about midnight his time....
[06:40] <fabbione> and he is not here? *BAD*
[06:43] <daniels> hijacking is bad, mmkay? :P
[06:47] <lamont> xorg_6.8.2-15hppa1 building
[06:47] <lamont> daniels: fix is already in -16-to-be, yes?
[06:47] <daniels> mmm-hmm
[06:51] <daniels> hm
[06:53] <lamont> well, the last failure was 2 hours in...  I don't think I'm going to wait up for it
[07:09] <daniels> sure
[07:09] <daniels> night dude
[07:09] <fabbione> night lamont
[07:13] <lamont> didn't say I was going to bed...
[07:13] <lamont> anything I can do to speed up graphics on a: 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10] 
[07:13] <lamont> ?
[07:13] <daniels> you can try the stuff from r300.sf.net
[07:13] <fabbione> binary drivers?
[07:13] <daniels> or yeah, fglrx
[07:14] <lamont> daniels: I'll bug you more tomorrow on setting that up then
[07:14] <lamont> 0000:02:04.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01)
[07:15] <daniels> none for firmware
[07:15] <daniels> just l-r-m-$(uname -r)
[07:15] <lamont> right
[07:15] <fabbione> where did you get this new toy? :)
[07:15] <fabbione> where/when
[07:16] <lamont> liberated an nc6000 from my new bos
[07:16] <lamont> s
[07:16] <daniels> nice
[07:16] <lamont> so I can have it installed before I start work
[07:17] <fabbione> oh i had one too
[07:17] <fabbione> it was doing pretty well
[07:19] <lamont> daniels: on the first boot, it had lots of tearing on the screen, as well as some echos.  restarting X made it all better
[07:20] <daniels> um, cool
[07:20] <daniels> odes this happen reproducibly?
[07:20] <lamont> not since
[07:20] <lamont> but changing the resolution from 1400x1050 to 1280x1024 didn't make it go away either.
[07:21] <daniels> if you can reproduce it, let me know
[07:21] <lamont> will do
[07:21] <daniels> you *are* using hoary/breezy, right?
[07:21] <lamont> hoary+security
[07:21] <daniels> righto
[07:21] <lamont> warty is like, OLD
[07:22] <daniels> indeed
[07:22] <daniels> sid is like, older
[07:22] <daniels> (in terms of X)
[07:22] <lamont> yeah
[07:27] <lamont> ath0 doesn't find the accesspoint that my palm does.
[07:27] <lamont> grumble
[07:27] <daniels> you have brought the interface up, right?
[07:29] <fabbione> uhuuhuh
[07:29] <fabbione> configfs on /config type configfs (rw)
[07:29] <fabbione> now i want you to guess what is that :)
[07:30] <lamont> daniels: how absolutely strange.  I much prefer aironet cards... :)
[07:34] <lamont> hrm.. /me has gmail invites
[07:37] <fabbione> is gmail any good?
[07:38] <lamont> dunno - don't use it.
[07:38] <lamont> but I do have an account
[07:41] <infinity> I think just about everyone (except fabbione, apparently) has an account and a mess of invites.
[07:42] <lamont> yeah
[07:42] <infinity> I check mine once every 2 or 3 months when someone reminds me about it.
[07:42] <lamont> feb 17 was last login
[07:43] <lamont> You are currently using 0 MB (0%) of your 2207 MB.
[07:43] <fabbione> infinity: well it's like i don't really need it? :)
[07:43] <infinity> Where did you find the last login info?
[07:44] <lamont> from my one and only mail message (the intro one)
[07:44] <infinity> Ahh. :)
[07:44] <lamont> haven't logged in since I created it, until tonight.
[07:44] <lamont> at which point I deleted about 6 bounce messages
[07:44] <infinity> My last read message is Feb 17th, so I'm assuming that's my last login.
[07:44] <infinity> Creepy.
[07:44] <lamont> all for spam that I didn't send
[07:44] <infinity> And I have 50 invites.
[07:46] <minghua> lamont: so your cat has a email address already? ;-)
[07:46] <infinity> Why wouldn't it?
[07:46] <infinity> Cats need spam too.
[07:50] <lamont> 'zactly
[07:54] <infinity> lamont : So, when did/do you start back at HP?
[07:54] <lamont> June 1
[07:54] <infinity> Looking forward to it?
[07:54] <lamont> yes
[07:54] <infinity> You've been institutionalised, haven't you? :)
[07:55] <lamont> not just because I'm getting paid to keep hacking on linux
[07:55] <infinity> A year without an HP ID badge must have been hell.
[07:55] <fabbione> ahaha
[07:55] <lamont> infinity: it was the lack of health insurance that made it hell...
[07:55] <lamont> but yeah.  I've been institutionalized
[07:55] <infinity> Ahh, that too.
[07:55] <infinity> I keep forgetting about the US and its lack of public health system.
[07:55] <lamont> pisser is that someone stole lamont@hp.com from me
[07:55] <infinity> You're kidding?
[07:56] <infinity> I hope thye enjoy all the spam it gets.
[07:56] <lamont> no.  there were 3 other lamont's at HP.
[07:56] <lamont> one  of them took it... bastard.
[07:56] <infinity> That was a pretty widely publicised email address.
[07:56] <lamont> Results 1 - 10 of about 846 for lamont@hp.com. (0.32 seconds) 
[07:57] <lamont> not bad for something a year stale
[07:58] <lamont> well. anyway, time for bed I think.
[07:58] <fabbione> cfdisk 
[07:58] <fabbione> Segmentation fault
[07:58] <fabbione> interesting :)
[07:58] <infinity> lamont : 'Night.
[07:58] <infinity> fabbione : I blame ncurses.
[07:59] <fabbione> infinity: possibly
[07:59] <fabbione> night lamont
[09:46] <cartman> daniels: up for a small X-on-breezy question?
[09:46] <daniels> the answer is 'don't' ;)
[09:46] <daniels> what's up/
[09:46] <daniels> ?
[09:46] <cartman> :)
[09:47] <cartman> daniels: as nvidia driver will look for /usr/X11R6 and X is going to /usr
[09:47] <cartman> will be there symlinks?
[09:47] <daniels> not for a while though
[09:47] <cartman> from X11R6 to /usr ?
[09:47] <daniels> yeah, when xorg all hits /usr, there will be symlinks
[09:47] <daniels> but the server, Mesa, and drivers, will all be the last to go
[09:47] <cartman> daniels: cool thanks
[09:47] <daniels> since that's Tricky
[09:47] <cartman> yeah :)
[09:47] <cartman> I was worried :)
[09:49] <daniels> it shouldn't be too painful, hopefluly
[09:49] <daniels> gotta run now, though
[09:49] <cartman> see you
[10:07] <\sh> morning
[10:12] <\sh> something new about dpkg?
[10:29] <fabbione> what is wrong with dpkg?
[10:31] <cartman> hmm X.org still compiled with old gcc ?
[10:31] <cartman> libGLU still links to libstdc++.so.5 here
[10:34] <doko> good morning all
[10:35] <fabbione> hi doko
[10:35] <cartman> morning
[10:36] <doko> so the buildd's have stopped?
[10:36] <fabbione> doko: hmm not that i know off
[10:36] <fabbione> why?
[10:37] <doko> on i386 the failed packages don't get a rebuild
[10:37] <doko> flac, qt-x11-free, libsdl1.2, gtkmm2.4, ...
[10:38] <fabbione> failed != dep-wait
[10:38] <doko> there's nothing to dep-wait
[10:38] <fabbione> dep-wait is kicked automatically
[10:38] <fabbione> failed no
[10:39] <doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gtkmm2.4/2.6.2-0ubuntu2/
[10:39] <doko> ?
[10:40] <doko> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
[10:40] <doko> libglibmm-2.4-dev(inst 2.6.1-0ubuntu1 ! >= wanted 2.6.1-0ubuntu2)
[10:40] <doko> Source-dependencies not satisfied; skipping gtkmm2.4
[10:40] <doko> but the dependency is already built
[10:40] <fabbione> probably the chroot hasn't been updated
[10:46] <doko> lamont, elmo: please could you check for the chroots, so that flac, qt-x11-free, libsdl1.2, gtkmm2.4 can be rebuilt?
[11:40] <doko> elmo: some time for C++ ABI stuff (as long as lamont is not awake)?
[11:44] <elmo> what stuff?
[11:45] <doko> fail to see why db4.2 is failing to build, but all build-deps are in main ...
[11:45] <doko> wvstreams (main) needs some stuff from the xplc package, which is still in universe
[11:46] <fabbione> doko: can you confirm we can build the new dpkg?
[11:46] <fabbione> and that it was in the list by miskate?
[11:46] <fabbione> (at least i remember this way)
[11:47] <doko> fabbione: I don't have any problems with it now. yes, I removed it from the list at chinstrap:~doko/cxxapps.txt
[11:47] <fabbione> doko: thanks
[11:47] <fabbione> elmo: we can push it :)
[11:48] <doko> qt-x11-free isn't tried to build on two archs
[11:49] <elmo> i386 buildds are turned off
[11:49] <elmo> I don't know why - did lamont say anything in here?
[11:49] <doko> no, nothing
[11:50] <doko> nothing in the logs
[11:50] <fabbione> nope
[11:51] <elmo> meh, timezones are just teh suck
[11:52] <fabbione> humpf
[11:52] <fabbione> i wonder if he just forgot to turn them on again
[11:53] <fabbione> i guess we will have to wait a bit
[11:54] <elmo> I'm going to have a shower, but once I'm back I'll have a look around, and if there's nothing obvious, turn one on again
[11:54] <doko> :)
[11:54] <fabbione> ok
[11:54] <fabbione> i need food and i will be off soon today
[11:54] <doko> take a cold shower ...
[01:11] <jbailey> fabbione: Heya fabio - I still haven't seen a failure that shows that lkh is bad.  The failures you showed me were all other things...
[01:15] <fabbione> jbailey: xorg :)
[01:16] <jbailey> Got a build log? =)
[01:16] <fabbione> usual place
[01:16] <fabbione> needsreallove/xoef_6.8.2-15
[01:16] <fabbione>  /usr/include/linux/pci.h:453: error: parse error before 'pci_power_t'
[01:16] <jbailey> The imap server takes me almost 10 minutes to get connected to.  I tried arguing with the evo developers and they claim that they need to walk the entire tree in order to know the folder structure. =(
[01:17] <cartman> am I correct that Xorg is still compiled with g++3.3 ?
[01:17] <fabbione> cartman: no
[01:17] <fabbione> it's builded with gcc-4
[01:17] <fabbione> jbailey: you can ssh to vultus5
[01:17] <cartman> fabbione: -15 still links to libstdc++.so.5 here
[01:17] <cartman> fabbione: need -16 or something?
[01:17] <fabbione> less logs/xorg_
[01:17] <jbailey> Tx.
[01:18] <fabbione> jbailey: imap and logs are strictly binded
[01:18] <cartman> 6.8.2-15 here
[01:18] <fabbione> i was working with elmo to get the logs on people
[01:18] <jbailey> A failure in linux/ should affect all arch's.  I'm curious.
[01:18] <fabbione> cartman: what is still linked to libstdc++.so.5?
[01:18] <jbailey> Oh, probably a definition of __bitwise.
[01:18] <cartman> [~] > ldd /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLU.so|grep stdc++
[01:18] <cartman>         libstdc++.so.5 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5 (0x00002aaaab0ca000)
[01:18] <cartman> fabbione: ^^
[01:19] <jbailey> ssh: connect to host vultus5.fabbione.net port 22: Network is unreachable
[01:19] <fabbione> jbailey: you need to bounce via trider-g7
[01:20] <fabbione> or get ipv6 :)
[01:20] <fabbione> cartman: check with daniels
[01:20] <jbailey> @    WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!     @
[01:20] <jbailey> joy
[01:20] <fabbione> cartman: also.. what version of libglu did you install?
[01:20] <fabbione> jbailey: what ssh command are you trying to use?
[01:21] <jbailey> ssh trider-g7.fabbione.net
[01:21] <jbailey> I think that's what I did before...
[01:21] <fabbione> hmm no
[01:21] <fabbione> i did open a port for you to do that
[01:21] <fabbione> that was bouncing to vultus5 in ipv4
[01:21] <fabbione> that's why
[01:21] <jbailey> Ah, non-standard port?  Gimme a sec.
[01:21] <jbailey> Actually, FWIW I could probably just enable my ipv6 stuff again.
[01:21] <fabbione> if you can tell me the port again, that would be nice
[01:22] <fabbione> jbailey: well it needs to be routed too :)
[01:22] <jbailey> Yes, dear. =)
[01:23] <fabbione> jbailey: do you still have my mail with the port handy?
[01:23] <jbailey> Somewhere.  Enabling by freenet6 daemon will be faster, though.  I just need to move the config from my belle's box to mine.
[01:23] <fabbione> doesn't freenet6 provide a /64?
[01:24] <jbailey> You can either get them to provide a network or a host endpoint.
[01:24] <fabbione> jbailey: ok hold on a sec
[01:25] <fabbione> jbailey: ssh trider-g7 -p 1000
[01:26] <fabbione> that should redirect you to vultus5
[01:26] <fabbione> modulo slowliness
[01:39] <jbailey> And this isn't biting other arch's?  Only sparc? =(
[01:39] <jbailey> Nothing about this line should be arch specific.
[01:40] <fabbione> yeah only sparc
[01:41] <jbailey> Is my breezy chroot still there?
[01:41] <fabbione> jbailey: yes. it might need to be updated tho
[01:41] <fabbione> or do you want me to recreate one for you?
[01:42] <fabbione> (that's probably faster)
[01:42] <jbailey> Please.
[01:42] <fabbione> ok
[01:42] <jbailey> At this point I'm at 2 or 3 seconds lag to a keystroke, so the least I have to type on this the better.
[01:43] <fabbione> jbailey: yes i know
[01:43] <fabbione> upload is the sux from here
[01:43] <fabbione> hopefully within the next year we will get fibers
[01:44] <jbailey> =)
[01:44] <fabbione> it's almost there :)
[01:44] <jbailey> My new appt will have better bandwidth too.  Right now if I upload, it cuts out the phone connection.
[01:51] <fabbione> ok... gcc-4 is building on sparc now
[01:59] <doko> jabailey: you want to make a gcc-4 upload today or tomorrow?
[01:59] <doko> I did hear some rumors
[01:59] <doko> elmo: just as a status, is the i386 buildd running?
[02:01] <jbailey> doko: Well, you said that I could just upload a biarch-enabled gcc, I said that I would do it after the transition was done.  Originally that sounded like Friday. =)
[02:03] <doko> jbailey, well, yes, provided we don't have dpkg, xorg, and other uploads. I'll put a new tarball on chinstrap tomorrow, so you can work from this one?
[02:04] <Kamion> how come linux-kernel-headers got demoted from ship to supported in today's CD build? did something stop depending on it?
[02:04] <jbailey> Right.  Nothing to interfere, just to make it so that I'm maintaining fewer glibc trees here. =)
[02:04] <jbailey> Kamion: Err...
[02:05] <jbailey> Kamion: Is libc6-dev usually in ship?
[02:05] <Kamion> yes
[02:05] <Kamion> build-essential is in ship
[02:06] <Kamion> libc6-dev doesn't depend on l-k-h any more though
[02:06] <jbailey> apt-cache rdepends on ppc seems to show it still.
[02:06] <jbailey> What arch are you looking at?
[02:06] <Kamion>  Version: 2.3.5-1ubuntu2
[02:06] <Kamion>  Architecture: powerpc
[02:06] <Kamion>  Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.5-1ubuntu2)
[02:07] <Kamion> same on i386 and amd64
[02:07] <Kamion> looking in the archive on rookery with dpkg -I
[02:07] <jbailey> Ah, bugger, yeah I see it too.
[02:07] <jbailey> Lemme troll the logs to see why the perl script didn't run. =(
[02:08] <jbailey> Kamion: Thanks for the headsup
[02:08] <Kamion> np
[02:09] <jbailey> Oh, I know what it will be, probably.
[02:09] <jbailey> More linux/linux-gnu mapping fallout from the dpkg change.
[02:09] <Kamion> ah, yes
[02:10] <Kamion> +if ($DEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM eq "linux") {
[02:10] <Kamion> that?
[02:10] <jbailey> Ayup
[02:11] <jbailey> Well, no.
[02:11] <jbailey> That's where I'm setting it to linux-gnu internally.
[02:11] <jbailey> even if I get linux - older versions of dpkg will make us behave consistantly.
[02:12] <lamont> morning
[02:12] <jbailey> Err, sorry that looked like the debian/rules snippet for a sec.
[02:12] <jbailey> Perhaps I'll eat breakfast before attempting to hack more.
[02:12] <doko> lamont, action now! ;-)
[02:15] <cartman> now gcc changed target to amd64-linux on amd64
[02:15] <cartman> will this stop? :)
[02:18] <jbailey> Hmm.  m/^i386-linux$/ could just as easily be m/^i386-linux/ with probably no sideeffects, right?
[02:19] <Kamion> jbailey: should imagine so ...
[02:22] <cartman> amd64-linux is final target for amd64 gcc? ( it was x86_64-linux then x86_64-linux-gnu and now amd64-linux )
[02:22] <jbailey> From lwn: The usual fallback is to identify all the stakeholders and get them to say "yes Andrew, this code is cool and we can use it", but I don't think the clustering teams have sufficent act-togetherness to be able to do that.
[02:22] <jbailey> Does this mean the clustering people are poorly clustered?
[02:22] <cartman> jbailey: haha
[02:22] <lamont> jbailey: most certainly
[02:24] <lamont> starting shortly
[02:25] <lamont> mostly because I'm going to fall over
[02:26] <jbailey> lamont: Can I have a glibc build log from you for hppa?
[02:27] <jbailey> Or could you make them generally appear with the others in ~lamont? =)
[02:28] <lamont> dude - I gotta get X to build
[02:28] <lamont> then I was going to build glibc
[02:28] <jbailey> Ah?  okay.  I thought for some reason you had fired up glibc last night.
[02:28] <lamont> and making sparc/hppa appear is on the list of things that we're trying to figure out
[02:28] <lamont> no - I fired up X, and it's still FTBFS
[02:29] <lamont> must flee - will be back on in about 75-90 min or so
[02:29] <jbailey> lamont: Travel safely. =)
[02:46] <lamont> jbailey: you want me to run glibc now, and X later?
[02:46] <lamont> eep.
[02:46] <lamont> had hoped it wasn't :45 yet
[02:48] <doko> lamont: could we have a look at some packages?
[02:48] <lamont> I'll start glibc and then xorg
[02:48] <lamont> doko: ??
[02:51] <doko> db4.2
[02:51] <jbailey> lamont: It doesn't matter that much.  I just want to tell Carlos what the final failure set is.  We're going to hack on generic function descriptors after that to solve a couple more of them.
[02:51] <doko> can't see why gcj-wrapper should fail
[02:51] <jbailey> IT won't be today either way, though.
[02:52] <lamont> jbailey: well, glibc will finish in good time this morning -gives the buildd something more to do, etc, etc.
[02:52] <doko> lamont: qt-x11-free was not started on amd64 and ia64
[02:52] <lamont> doko: I'll be back online once I drop kids at school, but just for a few
[02:53] <jbailey> lamont: Actually, scratch that.
[02:53] <lamont> doko: is it dep-wait?
[02:53] <jbailey> lamont: Please do glibc first.
[02:53] <lamont> jbailey: not stopping it now... (glibc _is_ first.)
[02:53] <jbailey> lamont: I will need to do another upload today anyway to fix the lkh dependancy, I may as well get any last fixes you need in case of build failure in there.
[02:53] <doko> lamont: when are you back?
[02:53] <doko> lamont: no
[02:53] <doko> lamont: flac: needs rebuild on i386, amd64, powerpc
[02:54] <jbailey> lamont: I think his morning dissapearance is usually about 90 minutes.
[02:54] <jbailey> err. doko: ^^
[02:56] <doko> jbailey: please could you have a look at http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=49374
[02:58] <jbailey> doko: Crazy.  Is this actually affecting us as well?
[02:59] <doko> _rene_ just told me
[03:00] <jbailey> Right, but this bug report is for rpm.  If this were going to affect us, I would've expected other things using debhelper to puke.
[03:02] <doko> jbailey: sysui is using rpm internally to prebuild the packages ;)
[03:02] <doko> ooo does have a build dep on rpm ...
[03:03] <jbailey> You've got to be kidding...
[03:04] <elmo> lamont: no, they were all offline
[03:04] <elmo> I brought them back
[03:04] <elmo> or some of them
[03:04] <doko> heh, flac finally built :)
[03:07] <elmo> err, dude
[03:08] <elmo> you are doing no-change uploads with something other than 'ubuntu' as the version string right?
[03:09] <jbailey> doko: 2004-09-29 from drepper "Don't blindly trust readdir results; for symlinks or files of unknown type check using stat whether the file exists."
[03:11] <doko> elmo: yes, they should be synced from Debian, if the next version is available.
[03:12] <Kamion> he's been doing *buildN
[03:13] <doko> and i asked: do we have a version schema to mark an -ubuntu version as syncable again, maybe -ubuntu1 -zapit1
[03:13] <doko> hmm, -ubuntu1 -> -zapit1
[03:14] <elmo> uh?
[03:14] <elmo> why would you need that?
[03:14] <Kamion> presumably for when you've reverted changes
[03:14] <jbailey> "In order to have access to a pathname, glob() requires search permission on every component of a path except the last, and read permission on each directory of any filename component of pattern that contains any of the following special characters: '*', '?', and '['."
[03:14] <doko> Kamion: exactly
[03:15] <jbailey> I wonder if they interpret that as the symlink has to point to a valid filename - otherwise there's no read permission.
[03:19] <doko> Unpacking libx11-6 (from .../libx11-6_6.8.2-15_i386.deb) ...
[03:19] <doko> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
[03:19] <doko> dpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-breezy/chroot-breezy/var/cache/apt/archives/libx11-6_6.8.2-15_i386.deb (--unpack):
[03:19] <doko>  subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[03:19] <doko> Errors were encountered while processing:
[03:19] <doko>  /home/buildd/build-breezy/chroot-breezy/var/cache/apt/archives/libx11-6_6.8.2-15_i386.deb
[03:19] <doko> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[03:19] <doko> lamont: ^^^ avifile build log, chmj is working on it
[03:23] <elmo> kamion: I still don't get it, why would up upload a zapit1 rather than just having it synced?
[03:25] <Kamion> elmo: because there's no new version in Debian yet
[03:25] <Kamion> doko: er, debconf db being locked doesn't sound like a package bug?
[03:26] <doko> Kamion: no, I assume the buildd, but I don't want look like trolling around ;)
[03:27] <elmo> right, but that forces a rebuild which is wasteful for the archive ,mirrors, users and buildd?
[03:27] <Kamion> it does force a rebuild later, but you might need to revert the changes now
[03:28] <Kamion> and you can't sync because that would be going backwards in versions
[03:28] <Kamion> it doesn't happen often and I don't know why doko needs it now; I have needed something like that once or twice
[03:29] <elmo> well, in that case anything > ubuntu and !~ ubuntu will do, but I'd definitely perfer it is only used for that rare case when you have to revert the changes immediately
[03:29] <doko> elmo: sure, it's less common than -buildN
[03:30] <Kamion> (in my case I'm usually in a position where I can find some reasonably good reason to upload to Debian ...)
[03:42] <lamont_r> hrm.. this chan isn't in the laptop's default list
[03:46] <doko> lamont: please could you check the build state of qt-x11-free on amd64 and ia64?
[03:46] <lamont_r> ok
[03:50] <lamont_r> doko: was depwait on a virtual package.
[03:51] <doko> which one?
[03:51] <lamont_r> libmysqlclient-dev
[03:51] <doko> ahh, ok
[03:52] <jbailey> lamont_r: This is up to date? =(
[03:52] <lamont_r> and then I expect to be offline for a few hours... I need to sleep
[03:52] <lamont_r> jbailey: never.
[03:52] <lamont_r> :-)
[03:52] <doko> hmm, that's no fun ...
[03:53] <lamont_r> doko: figured I'd warn you.
[03:53] <jbailey> Right.  That explains why it claims glibc is out of date. =)
[03:53] <lamont_r> jbailey: it shouldn't be more than about 20 minutes out of date
[03:53] <doko> please let's get qt, arts, and kdelibs in shape. that's the major blocker in main :(
[03:53] <lamont_r> what does the full line for glibc say>?
[03:53] <jbailey> libs/glibc_2.3.5-1ubuntu2: Installed by buildd+king [required:out-of-date] 
[03:53] <lamont_r> doko: and a circular depwait from hell.
[03:54] <jbailey> However,
[03:54] <jbailey> glibc_2.3.5-1ubuntu2_20050518-1857-amd64-successful.bz2   18-May-2005 19:13  294K  
[03:54] <lamont_r> jbailey: 2.3.5-1ubuntu2 is installed, was previously out-of-date
[03:54] <lamont_r> vs 'uncompiled'
[03:54] <jbailey> In the []  is previous state?
[03:54] <lamont_r> () is priority and previous-state-indicator
[03:55] <lamont_r> prev state == 'out-of-date' or 'uncompiled' (or 'partial', but you'll never see that
[03:56] <lamont_r> so it's not truely previous state.  (since that would - boringly - be 'Uploaded' for all the installed stuff...)
[03:56] <lamont_r> it's quinn-diff state, not w-b state
[03:57] <jbailey> Right.
[03:57] <lamont_r> doko: the process for arts et al is to upload a new arts that does what it needs to in order to survive the xorg changes of late.  Then fix and upload sdl to actually do the right thing.  then upload a clean arts next week
[03:58] <lamont_r> (sdl is including an X header incorrectly... however, sdl is d-w arts.
[03:58] <doko> lamont_ok: r
[04:10] <lamont_r> anything more before I run away for a while?
[04:12] <jbailey> fabbione: This is cute.  It's a section of code that may only be run on Sparc.  It includes <sys/kd.h> to get some headers, which forces it to not include linux/types.h.  It then includes linux/pci.h.  As of 2.6.9 or so, linux/pci.h now requires a defintion from linux/types.h in order to compile.
[04:12] <doko> lamont_r: maybe db4.2?
[04:13] <doko> gtkmm2.4?
[04:17] <lamont_r> doko: I'll focus on those once I'm back online and figure them out.
[04:17] <doko> fine, I'm away then
[04:48] <fabbione> jbailey: told you that it was l-k-h :P
[04:53] <jbailey> Right, but it's a problem in the upstream kernel headers too.
[04:54] <fabbione> jbailey: can we get it fixed in the meanwhile?
[04:54] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes.  I haven't decided the right way to fix it.
[04:55] <jbailey> fabbione: I see why they do it - inclusion of sys/kd.h shouldn't bring in a pile of kernel symbols.
[04:55] <jbailey> I guess the simplest is to remove the __bitwise stuff from lkh
[04:55] <fabbione> ok :)
[04:55] <fabbione> do you think you can manage to get it fixed today?
[04:56] <fabbione> or within the next 12 hours?
[04:56] <fabbione> so that tomorrow i can build X and unleash sparc on the libs?
[04:56] <jbailey> I'll try for in the next 12 minutes.
[04:57] <fabbione> ehhe cool, i don't need it THAT soon
[04:57] <fabbione> i am building gcc and it i will take another 10/12 hours
[04:57] <fabbione> but that would be rocking hard!
[04:57] <fabbione> i need to go to help my wife for some gardening stuff
[04:58] <jbailey> Do you have anything else handy that you suspect is an lkh failure?
[04:58] <fabbione> hmmm nope...
[04:58] <jbailey> I like that answer. =)
[04:58] <fabbione> but i mean, it's a package that can be uploaded without breaking the world
[04:58] <fabbione> if something shows up we can always attack it later
[04:59] <jbailey> YEs, sure.
[04:59] <fabbione> + after the transition i want to clean up the logs and kick-back all of the unbuilt 
[04:59] <fabbione> and see what happens
[04:59] <jbailey> You've just mentioned a few times that you've thought you had various lkh failures, and I'm pleased that so far this is the only one that is actually an lkh failure. =)
[05:00] <fabbione> there is one that probably is glibc
[05:00] <fabbione> util-linux
[05:00] <fabbione> but i will need to check with the new ones
[05:00] <fabbione> let's do it after the c++ transition
[05:00] <fabbione> or during
[05:01] <fabbione> right now i need to kill the gcc/x queue because it's the slowest one to get rid of
[05:01] <jbailey> fabbione: I'll be tossing another glibc on top of that in a moment, too.
[05:01] <daniels> cartman: do you have libglu1-xorg, or xlibmesa-glu?
[05:01] <fabbione> oh ok
[05:01] <jbailey> Hmm
[05:02] <fabbione> me must go
[05:02] <fabbione> cya later
[05:02] <fabbione> jbailey: thanks again
[05:02] <jbailey> 'bye Fabio
[05:07] <cartman> daniels: lemme see
[05:07] <cartman> daniels: xlibmesa-glu and xlibmesa-glu-dev
[05:07] <cartman> daniels: dist-upgrade didn't handle well?
[05:10] <daniels> cartman: you just need to wait for stuff to depend on libglu1-xorg
[05:10] <daniels> which it will when it gets built with it
[05:10] <cartman> daniels: ok
[05:12] <cartman> daniels: uhm also xkb stuff gone mad
[05:12] <cartman> daniels: open xev press Esc,1,2,3 etc and all those keys show as "noname"
[05:14] <daniels> awesome
[05:14] <daniels> probably /etc/X11 vs /usr/lib/X11 insanity
[05:14] <cartman> possibly yep
[05:15] <daniels> try sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb /usr/lib/X11/xkb
[05:15] <cartman> still same
[05:16] <daniels> even after restarting?
[05:16] <cartman> restarting X?
[05:16] <cartman> I did a : setxkbmap -model a4techKB21 -layout tr -variant basic from konsole
[05:17] <cartman> should I restart X?
[05:18] <daniels> what does ls /usr/lib/X11/xkb/, show you?
[05:20] <cartman> [~] > ls /usr/lib/X11/xkb/
[05:20] <cartman> compat      compiled  geometry.dir  keycodes.dir  keymap.dir  README.config     rules      symbols      types      xkbcomp
[05:20] <cartman> compat.dir  geometry  keycodes      keymap        README      README.enhancing  semantics  symbols.dir  types.dir
[05:21] <daniels> weird
[05:21] <daniels> try restarting X, yeah
[05:22] <cartman> ok brb
[05:23] <cartman> daniels: still same :/
[05:23] <daniels> there should be an instructive error message ta the bottom of Xorg.0.log
[05:25] <cartman> nothing interesting
[05:29] <cartman> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ggO8LX43.html
[05:39] <daniels> hrm
[05:39] <daniels> cartman: no idea, sorry; will look at it in the morning
[05:39] <daniels> hm and that same command works for me
[05:39] <daniels> nsert a comma where that  s
[05:39] <daniels> and  have werd s as well
[05:40] <daniels> much better
[05:40] <daniels> (and all in iso-8859-1, thanks to irssi's newfound stupidity)
[05:40] <daniels> night all
[05:43] <cartman> daniels: internet keys work and night
[05:49] <Kamion> doesn't look like ISO-8859-1 to me, it's something new and spethul
[06:06] <doko> jbailey: could you have a look at the arts build failure on powerpc, I'm away for the rest of the day
[06:48] <fabbione> doko: ???
[06:48] <fabbione> gnatbind -C -I- -I. -Iada -I../../src/gcc/ada -o ada/b_gnat1.c -n ada/gnat1drv.ali
[06:48] <fabbione> fatal error: file gnat1drv.ali is incorrectly formatted
[06:48] <fabbione> this is the latest gcc on sparc
[06:50] <fabbione> yeah i understand that
[06:50] <fabbione> ops
[07:06] <fabbione> doko: i am kicking it back
[07:06] <fabbione> but hell.. this sucks hard
[07:30] <\sh> hmm...how can I be sure, that debuild or pbuilder is using the right g++? is g++4 set as default?
[07:31] <Kamion> readlink -f `which g++`
[07:33] <\sh> thx
[07:48] <jbailey> doko: No prob. =)
[07:52] <\sh> doko: ping
[07:52] <\sh> doko: kdelibs4c2 is available from your repos?
[08:18] <lamont_r> jbailey: ping
[08:19] <jbailey> lamont_r: Pong!
[08:20] <lamont_r> how are we looking
[08:21] <lamont_r> bogus perms issues in my hppa buildd -> glibc relaunched
[08:21] <lamont_r> :-(
[08:21] <jbailey> Oh feh. =(
[08:21] <lamont_r> anybody bludgeoned arts into submission yet?
[08:21] <jbailey> I haven't, I'm mostly just sitting back down to the 'puter.
[08:22] <lamont_r> you want it, or is it mine?
[08:22] <lamont_r> arts, db4.2, gtkmm*
[08:22] <lamont_r> pick 2 - you're that good
[08:22] <jbailey> Nah, I'll take it.  I want to think about glibc for a moment longer before uploading.
[08:22] <jbailey> arts and db4.2 then. =)
[08:22] <lamont_r> heh
[08:23] <jbailey> I'm trying to make sure that I don't miss anything before I loosen the dependancy on locales to just the most recent cvs bump.
[08:31] <jbailey> lamont_r: What at?
[08:31] <lamont_r> locales dep
[08:33] <jbailey> Oy.  the aspell library change is going to suck.
[08:33] <lamont_r> glibc actually compiling this time.
[08:33] <jbailey> w00t!
[08:33] <jbailey> lamont: What speed is your box?
[08:33] <lamont_r> and xorg_6.8.2-15hppa2 built
[08:33] <lamont_r> A500/550 (running UP)
[08:34] <lamont_r> glibc:                  02:04:13 (19 entries, sigma 00:42:29)
[08:34] <lamont_r> Build needed 01:58:14, 500772k disk space
[08:34] <lamont_r> more significantly, ^^
[08:36] <jbailey> I wonder how ccached that was.
[08:36] <lamont_r> it was pretty ccached.
[08:36] <lamont_r> and still is
[08:36] <lamont_r> or should be
[08:36] <jbailey> Oh right, because you did the test build.
[08:36] <lamont_r> yeah.  that was -0ubuntu3pre4
[08:36] <jbailey> I was thinking first build since 2.3.2.ds1
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd   459880 May 16 18:17 logs/glibc_2.3.5-0ubuntu3_20050516-1815
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd      501 May 17 06:13 logs/glibc_2.3.5-0ubuntu3_20050517-0613
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd   582942 May 17 14:15 logs/glibc_2.3.5-0ubuntu3_20050517-1411
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd 13004123 May 17 16:25 logs/glibc_2.3.5-0ubuntu3pre4_20050517-1426
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd      989 May 19 06:51 logs/glibc_2.3.5-1ubuntu2_20050519-0651
[08:38] <lamont_r> -rw-r--r--  1 buildd buildd  5788977 May 19 12:38 logs/glibc_2.3.5-1ubuntu2_20050519-1220
[08:38] <lamont_r> ops... spamage. sorry
[08:38] <jbailey> All good.  This is a flood-friendly channel.
[08:41] <lamont_r> so, once you get arts to build, let me know...that'll free up libsdl1.2 a couple places...
[08:42] <jbailey> Won't wb hand it from a depwait state?
[08:42] <lamont_r> it's not depwaited
[08:42] <lamont_r>   libarts1-dev: Depends: libarts1 (= 1.4.0-0pre1ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed
[08:43] <lamont_r> I could _put_ it in depwait, but I'm lazy
[08:43] <jbailey> Right.
[08:43] <jbailey> Why put off until tomorrow what can be put off until the day after?
[08:44] <lamont_r> days are short, and all that.. :)
[08:45] <jbailey> Hey - did we ever put in the "-x c" hack into the buildds?
[08:45] <lamont_r> not yet.  can I do it as one arg?
[08:45] <lamont_r> that is, '-xc' vs '-x c'?
[08:45] <jbailey> Dunno, I'll test it in a sec.
[08:46] <lamont_r> gcc-opt wouldn't really like it to be 2 args
[08:47] <jbailey> Yes, dear.
[08:47] <lamont_r> you stud you
[08:50] <jbailey> I may need heavier narcotics for this.  arts is compiled with g++ -shared -nostdlib -lstdc++ -lm -lc -lgcc_s and all the various crtFOO*
[08:51] <lamont_r> gtkmm* seem to just be a matter of throwing things against the fan
[08:52] <lamont_r> configure:20937: result: .so
[08:52] <lamont_r> configure:21107: checking if gcj-wrapper works
[08:52] <lamont_r> configure:21121: gcj-wrapper  Test.java
[08:52] <lamont_r> ../dist/configure: line 21122: gcj-wrapper: command not found
[08:52] <lamont_r> configure:21124: $? = 127
[08:52] <lamont_r> configure:21128: error: The Java compiler gcj-wrapper failed (see config.log, ch
[08:52] <lamont_r> so who's missing the *Depend?
[08:52] <lamont_r> db4.2
[08:54] <jbailey> lamont: Is gcj in main?
[08:54] <lamont_r> 9.7M of 13
[08:54] <jbailey> I didn't think it had been promoted yet.
[08:54] <lamont_r> hrm... should be
[08:54] <lamont_r> that could be the issue there then
[08:55] <jbailey> Nope, it is.
[08:55] <lamont_r> but it should be failing for want of dependency, not just trying to build
[08:56] <lamont_r> run-iconv-test.sh is running, should you care
[08:56] <jbailey> Angie thinks that UDU might have been bad for my health, apparently when I swear at the computer, I've started doing it in a Brit. accent.
[08:56] <lamont_r> LOL
[08:56] <jbailey> Probably too much time in the vibe out room sitting next to james and scott.
[08:56] <lamont_r> brit? or 'stralian?
[08:57] <lamont_r> hrm... done in town, I'm going to head home, I think
[08:57] <jbailey> Nah, we didn't leave the hotel enough to pick up an Aussie one.
[08:57] <jbailey> TTU in 45 or so?
[08:57] <lamont_r> if you don't need anything in the next minute or so, I'm gonna vanish for about 20
[08:57] <lamont_r> about 20 minutes - this coffee shop is on the north end of town
[08:57] <lamont_r> more properly about 25
[08:58] <jbailey> Coo.
[08:59] <lamont_r> of course, that's 25 min _after_ I really leave... :-
[08:59] <lamont_r> )
[09:00] <lamont_r> later
[09:12] <jbailey> Heya Matthias.
[09:36] <lamont> hrm... how was that timing
[09:40] <lamont> jbailey: 12/13 MBN
[09:40] <lamont> s/N$//
[09:41] <jbailey> lamont: Excellent timing.  About 40 minutes from when I said 45. =)
[09:41] <lamont> you play with db4.2 yet, or shall I test my theory?
[09:42] <jbailey> No, I've figured out that this symbol only looks like it should be part of the standard library set.  It isn't really.
[09:44] <lamont> uh.. .no you're messing with db4.2, or no, I should?
[09:44] <jbailey> No, I'm still on arts.
[09:44] <lamont> ah, right.
[09:44] <\sh> grmpf
[09:44] <lamont> I think this means I owe you a beer or something
[09:44] <\sh> kvirc has shlibs attached...do i have to rename it or not? 
[09:46] <jbailey> Oh ew...
[09:46] <jbailey> Rather than including all of the files in the Makefile, they've #include'd all the .cc's into one file.
[09:47] <jbailey> Then compiled *that* into a helper libtool library.
[09:48] <lamont> hehehehehe heh heh huh.
[09:55] <lamont> db4.2 uploaded
[09:55] <amu> cool
[09:56] <lamont> checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... no
[09:56] <lamont> checking whether  accepts -g... no
[09:56] <lamont> hrm....
[09:56] <amu> ... a blocker for kdelibs
[09:56] <jbailey> Hey, it's accurate.
[09:56] <lamont> jbailey: heh
[10:14] <lamont> (hppa buildd, that is)
[10:14] <jbailey> I think anything else was a preq of one of those.
[10:14] <jbailey> Got a build log for me? =)
[10:15] <lamont> I would if your tests would finish
[10:15] <lamont> buildd   16629  0.2  0.0   6452  4528 ?        SN   13:22   0:09                          |       \_ /usr/bin/make -C elf tests
[10:15] <lamont> buildd   18799  0.0  0.0   2876  1276 ?        SN   13:24   0:00                          |           \_ /bin/sh -c GCONV_PATH=/build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5/build-tree/hppa-libc/iconvdata LC_ALL=C   /build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5/build-tree/hppa-libc/elf/ld.so.1 -
[10:15] <lamont> buildd   18800  0.0  0.0   2788   628 ?        RN   13:24   0:00                          |               \_ /build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5/build-tree/hppa-libc/elf/ld.so.1 --library-path /build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5/build-tree/hppa-libc:/build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5
[10:15] <lamont> buildd   23116  0.0  0.0   1736   536 ?        SN   12:54   0:00                          \_ tee -a /build/buildd/glibc-2.3.5/log-test-hppa-linux-gnu-libc
[10:16] <lamont> ew.  that's ugly.  sorry
[10:16] <jbailey> It's not stuck mid sort is it?
[10:16] <lamont> well, time is currently 14:16, so it could be
[10:17] <lamont> I suppose I could kill the test...
[10:17] <jbailey> That mighit be the same thing I saw on bdale's machine then. =(  Carlos had me up the test timeout.
[10:17] <lamont> to how long?
[10:17] <jbailey> But after that I didn't see it kill the test at all, nor did I see it finish.
[10:17] <lamont> > 150 minutes???
[10:17] <jbailey> 20 secds.
[10:17] <lamont> ah, so I should kill the test?
[10:18] <jbailey> pinging carlos first. =)
[10:27] <lamont> client.cc: In member function 'GSList* Gnome::Conf::Client::get_list(const Glib::ustring&, GConfValueType) const':
[10:27] <lamont> client.cc:237: error: cast from 'void*' to 'int' loses precision
[10:27] <lamont> client.cc:240: error: cast from 'void*' to 'gboolean' loses precision
[10:27] <lamont> bad gconfmm
[10:27] <lamont> gconfmm2.6, even
[10:46] <lamont> May 19 14:44:21 buildd: breezy: total 523 packages to build.
[10:46] <lamont> (ok, so it's a partial mirror)
[10:46] <jbailey> Anyone happen to know the C++ name mangling is consistant across all arch's or if it's arch specific?
[10:50] <amu> jbailey: do you still work on arts? 
[10:50] <jbailey> amu: Yes.
[10:51] <jbailey> amu: The code path appears to be the same between ia64 (success) and ppc (fail)
[10:51] <jbailey> Looking through there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the headers or whatnot, so next I want to double check the symbols in libstdc++
[10:52] <cartman> arts is hall of shame for c++ :/
[10:52] <amu> Riddell pointed me before to this: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=110642979722873&w=2
[10:52] <lamont> back in a bit over an hour
[10:52] <jbailey> arts is certainly... interestingly written.
[10:53] <Riddell> it's because arts was done without qt or glib to keep everyone happy, and ended up pleasing nobody
[10:53] <jbailey> I'm getting undefined references rather than shared library errors.
[10:53] <jbailey> It's in the libtool convenience libraries.
[11:05] <jbailey> Riddell: Does glib have C++ helpers?
[11:05] <jbailey> I always thought of it as the STL without type safety.
[11:06] <Riddell> no glib is C only I'm pretty sure