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[12:21] <pitti> night everybody
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[12:31] <LinuxJones> can someone please come to #ubuntu and kick morgan ?
[12:32] <LinuxJones> nm
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[01:04] <surak> is there any page discussing the fact that ubuntu suids root for all users? 
[01:15] <Amaranth> it doesn't?
[01:15] <tseng> does what?
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[01:16] <surak> it does. any user can screw the machine just typing sudo. this is default.
[01:17] <Burgundavia> surak, only the first user in the admin group by default
[01:17] <Burgundavia> everyother user has to be added to that group
[01:18] <surak> oh thanks
[01:18] <tseng> whats that have to do with suids
[01:18] <surak> sorry, i used the wrong term.
[01:22] <mdke> surak, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[01:29] <surak> tks
[01:53] <ogra> we lost a user
[01:53] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-May/035933.html
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[01:54] <Amaranth> o_O
[01:56] <mdke> :(
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=== surak having trouble setting up grub for ubuntuexpress...
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[02:28] <Amaranth> hmm, it's impossible to compile a kernel module for the 2.6.11.92 kernel
[02:28] <Amaranth> it was compiled with gcc 3.4, only 3.3 and 4.0.1 are provided
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[03:00] <surak> time to go home. this grub's driving me nuts.
[03:00] <surak> night folks
[03:00] <mdke> nite
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[03:24] <calc> does colin watson use irc?
[03:24] <calc> i have some debconf questions to ask him
[03:24] <calc> or anyone else that does debconf dev work
[03:24] <mdke> calc, yeah
[03:24] <mdke> calc, nick is Kamion
[03:24] <calc> ah yea
[03:24] <calc> Kamion: awake?
[03:25] <mdke> calc, he is on europe time i think
[03:25] <calc> debconf automation stuff seems totally broken
[03:26] <calc> perhaps broken at a design level even, not completely sure yet
[03:26] <mdke> calc, maybe email, or leave a message here, he'll get back to you
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[03:26] <calc> ok :)
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[03:40] <sladen> calc: it's 3am here!
[03:41] <sladen> calc: or send an email to the -devel list and you'll probably have a reply from somebody else before he wakes up!
[03:50] <count0nz> if i want to work on adding more packages is it better for me to work on breezy or hoary ? going to start packageing TV apps and some games and things
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[03:54] <abarbaccia> hey all - can somebody make a new firefox package for version 1.04?  because you cant access mozilla- extensions and themes until you have that version
[03:54] <abarbaccia> currently we're running 1.03 i believe
[03:55] <count0nz> abarbaccia, firefox 1.04 just hot backports for hoary or are you in breezy ?
[03:55] <count0nz>  /s/hot/hit
[03:55] <bob2_> *shudder* backports
[03:55] <bob2_> hope you don't want to be able to update to breezy
[03:56] <count0nz> shuld be non-trivial to uninstall all backports lol
[03:56] <bob2_> maybe they could just produce working packages to begin with?
[03:57] <count0nz> bob can i ask you something
[03:59] <abarbaccia> breezy
[03:59] <abarbaccia> count0nz, breezy
[04:02] <abarbaccia> anybody here?
[04:02] <bob2_> no oe
[04:02] <abarbaccia> damn
[04:02] <abarbaccia> lol
[04:02] <abarbaccia> how should i get the new version of firefox in breezy
[04:02] <bob2_> if you have a development question, just ask
[04:02] <bob2_> if you're going to bug people about firefox, please don't
[04:03] <abarbaccia> well, where should i ask then
[04:03] <bob2_> no where
[04:03] <bob2_> just what.  obviously people are looking at it.
[04:03] <abarbaccia> well how can i help then
[04:09] <zul> abarbaccia: sending an email to the -devel list the guy who looks after firefox is not available i think
[04:10] <bob2_> pretty sure that's not the case
[04:14] <tseng> firefox works fine, btw
[04:14] <tseng> its added to ubuntu-meta in all the rigth places
[04:14] <tseng> pretty special
[04:14] <zul> oh hey tseng 
[04:14] <tseng> hi.
[04:14] <zul> how is it going?
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[04:15] <tseng> fine thanks
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[05:30] <jsgotangco> hi all
[05:35] <ajmitch> hi jerome
[05:37] <g14> I've got a new dev box that I can install the new breezy cd onto. If I install that and then update everything, will x still work?
[05:37] <g14> And is the transition to gcc4 mostly complete?
[05:37] <crimsun_> gcc4 is nearly complete, yes
[05:38] <crimsun_> g++4, not by any stretch
[05:38] <g14> ok thanks, do you know if x will break? I'm no stranger to the command line
[05:39] <crimsun_> should be fixed now iirc. Haven't been able to update my Breezy box for about two weeks.
[05:39] <g14> thanks again, I'm gonna try it out now
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[06:07] <robertj> is canonical going to sell individual support contracts anytime soon?
[06:09] <jdub> robertj: we are
=== lamont sleeps.  night all
[06:20] <robertj> jdub: in a few weeks we are going to put in our requests for next fiscal-year's allowance, and the money is going to be spent, it's just a matter of on what
[06:21] <robertj> and i'm impatient waiting for my ship-it cds and I want nice pretty pressed copies!
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[08:05] <pitti> Morning
[08:08] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:11] <pitti> trulux: here?
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[08:39] <tja> kamion: where does grub-installer get the $user-params -variable? I'd like to patch it to preseed them
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[08:46] <Burgundavia> morning JaneW 
[08:51] <jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
[08:59] <JaneW> morning  Burgundavia and jsgotangco 
[08:59] <Burgundavia> JaneW, your rant of day is not refreshed.
[09:00] <Amaranth> mako: You're killing the planet. ;)
[09:00] <jsgotangco> i love that unusual sex practices blog entry
[09:00] <jsgotangco> heh
=== Amaranth meant the flooding of entries and having them all be marked as new over and over in blam
[09:01] <Amaranth> but yeah, i loved it too ;)
[09:02] <jsgotangco> ahh
[09:02] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:02] <jsgotangco> i just refereshed blam
[09:02] <JaneW> Burgundavia: yes, I must update that asap, note it's the *NAG* of the day ;)
[09:02] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[09:02] <jsgotangco> planet mako
[09:02] <trulux> pitti: about to go to school, in 10min
[09:02] <trulux> pitti: what's up?
[09:02] <pitti> trulux: your patch is still screwed
[09:02] <pitti> trulux: it still doesn't get active by default
[09:03] <pitti> trulux: can I send you the patch against 2.6.12 and a link to the orig.tar.gz, and can you work on 2.6.12 from now on?
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[09:03] <JaneW> fabbione: ping?
[09:03] <trulux> pitti: what orig.tar.gz? on 2.6.12? when it's released maybe
[09:03] <fabbione> JaneW: pong
[09:04] <JaneW> fabbione: ok the 'affects kernel?' column of Breezy Goals is prety much complete.
[09:04] <trulux> pitti: I will modify so we end up using the default setting neither when defined or undefined (set to 0)
[09:04] <tja> should f-spot and beagle work?
[09:04] <tja> on breezy
[09:04] <fabbione> JaneW: ok. i will take a snapshot before the end of the day
[09:04] <fabbione> JaneW: right now i am quite busy
[09:05] <trulux> pitti: will work on it
[09:05] <JaneW> fabbione: mdz wants it removed, can I send it to you as a spreadsheet, or have you mad e anote of the responces already?
[09:05] <trulux> pitti: must go to school
[09:05] <trulux> see you
[09:05] <fabbione> JaneW: a spreadsheet is more than fine
[09:05] <JaneW> fabbione: no problem, will do so soon. ciao
[09:06] <fabbione> thanks
[09:07] <trulux> pitti: send the patch for .12 to my email
[09:07] <trulux> need to go
[09:07] <pitti> trulux: will do, see you
[09:11] <zyga> morning :-)
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[09:17] <Amaranth> tja: breezy doesn't work because of the move to dbus 0.30, dunno about f-spot
[09:17] <Amaranth> err, beagle on breezy
[09:18] <tja> i get the same error on startup
[09:18] <Amaranth> which is?
[09:18] <tja> "the assembly was not found in the Global Assembly Cache..."
[09:18] <Amaranth> which assembly?
[09:18] <tja> gnome-sharp
[09:18] <Amaranth> ...
[09:19] <Amaranth> you have libgnome-cil?
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[09:19] <Amaranth> you have to install the dependencies manually right now, mono things are broken like that
[09:20] <tja> duh, no..
[09:20] <tja> ok
[09:20] <tja> sorry
[09:20] <Amaranth> #ubuntu-motu topic (mono is in universe) says "Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks"
[09:20] <tja> =)
[09:21] <tja> i'll join that one
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[09:29] <pitti> elmo: please sync alsa-lib from experimental
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[09:37] <jsgotangco> chmj, hey
[09:38] <chmj> hi jsgotangco 
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[09:54] <seb128> daniels: around? :)
[09:54] <daniels> seb128: no! :P
[09:54] <daniels> what's up?
[09:54] <seb128> daniels: ah ah
[09:55] <fabbione> hey seb
[09:55] <seb128> daniels: you know about these keyboard issues? wondering if I should really blame xorg or gtk :)
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[09:55] <seb128> all the dups seems to be gnomish, but gtk didn't change...
[09:55] <seb128> hi fabbione 
[09:56] <fabbione> seb128:
[09:56] <fabbione> <lamont> doko: what's the story with gnome-menus?
[09:56] <fabbione> <lamont>   libgnome-menu-dev: Depends: libgnome-menu2 (= 2.11.1.1-0ubuntu1)
[09:56] <fabbione>            but it is not installable
[09:56] <fabbione> <lamont> fabbione: when seb128 is awake again and/or doko, wanna ping them wrt
[09:56] <fabbione>           gnome-menus?  (see above)
[09:56] <seb128> apt-get install libgnome-menu2 ?
[09:56] <fabbione> seb128: that's on the buildd i think
[09:56] <seb128> works for me (tm)
[09:57] <daniels> seb128: keyboard issues -> xorg
[09:57] <daniels> can't fix them right now, need to run away for a bit
[09:57] <seb128> daniels: ok, thanks, I keep duping that so :)
[09:57] <seb128> daniels: no pb, I've not updated my xorg yet :p
[09:57] <fabbione> seb128: well.. i just reported what lamont told me to tell you :)
[09:57] <fabbione> seb128: i didn't dig into it
[09:58] <seb128> fabbione: right, do you know what arch/build log is that?
[09:58] <fabbione> no clue
[09:58] <seb128> I'll wait for lamont so, thanks
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[10:06] <pitti> thom: here?
[10:08] <seb128> a bit early for thom :p
[10:09] <pitti> thom: I looked at the dhcdbd code; it is written cautiously, but not very robust (the guy should learn how to use strdup() *sigh*). However, I did not find any obvious flaws, so I'm fine with it
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: hm, right, but he'll read scrollback, I think
[10:09] <pitti> anyway, good time for breakfast now, cu later
[10:09] <seb128> enjoy your breakfast :)
[10:19] <daniels> GAR FIREFOX CRASHING SO MUCH
[10:19] <Treenaks> daniels: C++ b0rkage?
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[10:19] <bob2> BUT WE NEED 1.04 IN BREEZY OR OUR GENITALS WILL FALL OFF
[10:19] <Treenaks> bob2: THEY WILL?? *gets the ducttape*
[10:20] <daniels> Treenaks: no, it just crashes ALL. THE. TIME.
[10:21] <Treenaks> daniels: that's a feature. it makes it more secure.
[10:21] <chmj> lol 
[10:22] <bob2> hm, are there any install cds with 2.6.12 out there?
[10:22] <fabbione> no
[10:22] <fabbione> it's not in main
[10:23] <bob2> dang, apparently this sata controller should work with something more recent
[10:23] <Treenaks> bob2: you could roll your own
[10:23] <bob2> and build a new cd?  you massively underestimate my laziness.
[10:25] <bob2> guess I'll wait for the first breezy thing
[10:26] <fabbione> bob2: did you try to use the compatibility mode?
[10:26] <bob2> fabbione: is that a bios or kernel option?
[10:26] <fabbione> bios
[10:26] <bob2> I shall have a look
[10:26] <bob2> it's a shiny new ibm thing
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[10:37] <Lathiat> daniels: ping
[10:39] <daniels> pong ... is this about xkb?
[10:39] <Lathiat> heh i was just going to ask if you knew about two things
[10:39] <Lathiat> first that xlibs-dev is empty and second that keyboard shortcuts are broken. :)
[10:39] <Lathiat> if so, dont worry, continue on with whatever you were doing. :)
[10:40] <daniels> uhm, xlibs-dev has been empty for years
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[10:40] <Lathiat> humm, what package are X headers in then?
[10:40] <daniels> xlibs-dev depends on a whole bunch of other packages
[10:40] <daniels> which contain headers
[10:40] <Lathiat> oh i see
[10:41] <daniels> and now that's turning into about a bajillion other packages :)
=== Lathiat tries to figure out what he was having a header problem with
[10:41] <Lathiat> daniels: are headers broken in some way?
[10:42] <daniels> Lathiat: you want to add -I/usr/X11R6/include, if you haven't got it already
[10:42] <pitti> daniels: btw, any idea about the recent keyboard breakage?
[10:42] <pitti> daniels: i. e. can you reproduce it?
[10:42] <daniels> pitti: yes
[10:42] <daniels> haven't checked if I can reproduce it
[10:42] <daniels> but adding /usr/lib/X11/xkb as a symlink to /etc/X11/xkb may work
[10:42] <daniels> gotta run though, back in a few hours
[10:42] <daniels> unphoneable
[10:43] <pitti> see you
[10:43] <Lathiat> bye, thanks 
=== pitti ties the xkb fix
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[10:47] <Lathiat> didnt help me
[10:47] <Lathiat> no idea if it was the same problem tho
[10:47] <Lathiat> (all my keyboard shortcuts are foobared)
[10:47] <Lathiat> also the X11 problem i had was libgdiplus not being able to find X11/Xlib.h
[10:49] <daniels> Lathiat: yep, need -I/usr/X11R6/include
[10:49] <daniels> so it only worked by accident before :)
[10:49] <Lathiat> oh i see
[10:49] <daniels> bbl
[10:49] <Lathiat> cya
=== Lathiat  figures out how to abuse libgdiplus to add that
[11:00] <Kamion> tja: user-params takes stuff from /proc/cmdline
[11:00] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[11:00] <Kamion> tja: there's zero point changing it to be preseedable - if you could preseed, you could equally well just pass the kernel parameters
[11:00] <Kamion> morning fabio
[11:01] <fabbione> Kamion: mind to review http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterFilesystems (bottom part)
[11:01] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not sure if there is a better way to proceed
[11:03] <Kamion> fabbione: you can only do kickstart integration if RH have defined the syntax
[11:03] <Kamion> but which bit do you mean?
[11:04] <fabbione> "Addition after Approval"
[11:04] <Kamion> oh, ok. I don't see a problem there, but I don't know the background
[11:04] <fabbione> not sure if we need to bring the specs back to Edited
[11:04] <fabbione> Kamion: it's just another Cluster Filesystem
[11:04] <fabbione> i was more concered about the way to handle the spec document itself
[11:05] <Kamion> oh, I don't think so
[11:05] <fabbione> ok thanks :)
[11:05] <Kamion> same constraints about no rootfs etc.?
[11:06] <Kamion> anyway I've noted the addition as approved
[11:06] <fabbione> ok
[11:06] <Kamion> since you've already done it there seems little point doing otherwise :-)
[11:06] <fabbione> no no constrains
[11:06] <Kamion> if d-i work is needed, that needs to be specced
[11:06] <fabbione> no there is no d-i work for breezy
[11:06] <Kamion> k
[11:07] <fabbione> if there will be some reaction from users in terms of: "hey but i am installing in a cluster and i would like to mount my GFS/OCFS2 fs at install..."
[11:07] <fabbione> we will figure that out at a later stage
[11:07] <torkel> re ClusterFilesystems and Lustre, for us it would be a big win if it was possible to have their kernel-patches applied
[11:08] <fabbione> torkel: lustre seems pretty dead upstream
[11:08] <fabbione> that's why it has been deferred
[11:08] <fabbione> and i am not too happy to bring in dead code
[11:08] <tja> kamion: well, it doesn't add my "vga=.." options
[11:09] <torkel> fabbione: they focus on the 1.4 branch (1.4.2.1 was released a week or two ago), which you need to have a support contract to get
[11:10] <fabbione> torkel: this is free software dude...
[11:10] <fabbione> so that brings lustre out of our scope
[11:10] <torkel> fabbione: but they have expressed intrests in getting their kernel-patches in the stock kernels
[11:11] <torkel> fabbione: I know
[11:11] <fabbione> torkel: if and when they will put the code as GPL and available everywhere i will have no problem to include it
[11:11] <fabbione> as it is, it's no no no
[11:11] <Kamion> tja: did you put them after --?
[11:12] <Kamion> tja: the default bootloader configuration should have a -- parameter, user-params copies parameters that appear after that
[11:12] <tja> ah
[11:13] <tja> documented anywhere?-)=
[11:13] <tja> -=
[11:13] <Kamion> possibly not, it just works for normal users, can be confusing for automaters
[11:13] <seb128> elmo: galeon/experimental sync please
[11:13] <tja> kamion: ok, thanks for that
[11:13] <Kamion> kinda hard to grep the manual for though, let me see ...
[11:14] <Kamion> no, not documented as far as I can see ... I'll file a bug and see if somebody in Debian can do it
[11:14] <torkel> fabbione: when releasing a new major version they are releasing the old version under GPL. 
[11:15] <fabbione> torkel: that makes lustre still useless for us, given that we can't backport fixes
[11:16] <fabbione> either they get an open development model or it's no no
[11:16] <Kamion> tja: bug filed
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[11:25] <tja> kamion: super
[11:34] <JaneW> where can I send user support requests?
[11:34] <JaneW> a user has found some bugs and a few other things that he needs help with, but doesn;t know how Bugzilla works
[11:34] <JaneW> he has sent an e-mail to me.
[11:34] <Burgundavia> JaneW, I can file them
[11:35] <Burgundavia> and help him with his probs
[11:35] <JaneW> Burgundavia: can I forward the e-mail to you then? Address please.
[11:35] <Burgundavia> JaneW, corey.burger@gmail.com
[11:36] <jsgotangco> JaneW, start nagging!
[11:37] <JaneW> jsgotangco: oh so you like it do you?
[11:37] <jsgotangco> its been a while
=== JaneW takes out the wooden spoon
[11:37] <\sh> there is no spoon ;)
[11:38] <jsgotangco> haha
[11:38] <jsgotangco> just like there is no JaneW 
[11:38] <doko> good morning all
[11:38] <JaneW> don;t you mean no one like JaneW ? ;)
[11:38] <JaneW> hi doko
[11:39] <JaneW> Burgundavia: message sent
[11:39] <Burgundavia> JaneW, got it, parsing now
[11:40] <jsgotangco> JaneW, are the UDU spec queues still supposed to take effect?
[11:41] <JaneW> jsgotangco: er, I guess so yes, but I am not sure if anyone is still checking them... are you waiting on somebody? 
=== JaneW checks queue quickly...
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[11:41] <\sh> the lovely request "file a bug in malone and attach the strace logs" is quite usual these days, but they're to frightened to do it ;)
[11:42] <Nafallo> thom: you already know that firefox crashes on reload? :-P
[11:42] <jsgotangco> JaneW, just wondering i think it still should take effect
[11:42] <infinity> Nafallo : It's known, yeah.
[11:42] <Nafallo> infinity: I thought so :-). irritates the hell out of me atm ;-).
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[11:48] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I agree, but I think if you do add something to somebody's queue you should give them a prod to let them know you have done so, else it may sit there indefinitely.
[11:48] <JaneW> who can assist jeff ewlkner with edubuntu requests and questions?
[11:48] <jsgotangco> i dont mind doing that
[11:49] <Burgundavia> JaneW, replied
[11:49] <jsgotangco> but does jeff elkner go on irc?
[11:49] <JaneW> edubuntu is TOP priority for Breezy, yet they are flailing without input or hardware etc
[11:49] <Burgundavia> I can assist edubuntu with spare hardware, etc.
[11:49] <jsgotangco> Elkner/Applegate
[11:49] <JaneW> jsgotangco: he can but doesn't really, as he hasn't had much luck so far
[11:49] <JaneW> Burgundavia: thank-you :)
[11:49] <jsgotangco> how about colin
[11:50] <jsgotangco> (applegate)
[11:50] <JaneW> jsgotangco, & Burgundavia can I forward Jeff's e-mail to you to evaluate?
[11:50] <Burgundavia> JaneW, yes
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[11:50] <jsgotangco> no problem you can bug those people in Interested as well
[11:51] <mdke> is there any sign of a firefox hoary update?
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[11:53] <Kamion> JaneW: mm, people doing top-priority work for breezy should be recommended to show up in this channel regularly, I think
[11:53] <JaneW> Kamion: agreed, I get the impression that they are not sure how to get involved and what channels to follow, I'll send msg to you too
[11:53] <JaneW> jsgotangco: what's your email address, I am battling to find it quickly...
[11:53] <jsgotangco> JaneW, jgotangco@gmail.com
[11:54] <jsgotangco> i think they don't know where to start
[11:54] <seb128> pitti: the gstreamer sink change is to do whenever or you need to upload some stuff before?
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[11:55] <Treenaks> hey, it's the ogra daemon :)
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[12:00] <Burgundavia> JaneW, for edubuntu, on the technical end, I would talk to sabdfl
[12:01] <Burgundavia> if this is a top priority thing that is floundering, a few words from above can make the difference
[12:01] <Burgundavia> on the social end, hmm
[12:02] <JaneW> Burgundavia: advice noted, thanks
[12:03] <Kamion> JaneW: oh, he tried #ubuntu-dev, not #ubuntu-devel
[12:03] <Kamion> trivial mistake, but ...
[12:03] <Burgundavia> oops
[12:03] <Burgundavia> can we get -dev pointed here?
[12:03] <Kamion> I'm not sure IRC supports that usefully
[12:03] <\sh> Burgundavia: no
[12:03] <Burgundavia> freenode can do it
[12:04] <Burgundavia> try joining #c
[12:04] <Kamion> huh, ok
[12:04] <\sh> but this is a split-up channel, right? 
[12:04] <jsgotangco> hmm
[12:04] <Kamion> that's #c and ##c though, seem a bit different?
[12:04] <Treenaks> Kamion: try #python/#python2 then
[12:04] <Burgundavia> I have seen #wikipedia redirected to ##britannica
[12:06] <\sh> this article is really interessting...I read it this morning...http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=455
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[12:06] <pitti> Hey ogra
[12:09] <Burgundavia> JaneW, looking at the breezy goals for edubuntu, I see some light dev work, followed by lots and lots of testing
[12:10] <Burgundavia> oh, and did I mention testing?
[12:11] <ogra> hey pitti....
[12:11] <\sh> sorry to ask, but who is living in ZA and could provide me with a constant flow of biltong? game and beef are the favorites
[12:11] <ogra> flaky dsl today for me :/
[12:11] <Burgundavia> \sh, I thought I would never hear that on IRC
[12:11] <\sh> ogra: upgrade to 25mbit/s 
[12:11] <ogra> \sh, who offers _that_ ?
[12:11] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, it involves ltsp as well
[12:11] <\sh> ogra: telekom will
[12:11] <\sh> Burgundavia: why?
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[12:12] <\sh> Burgundavia: it's one of my favorite snacks :)
[12:12] <ogra> \sh, i have to move houses soon.... i'll buy a leased line for my next house
[12:12] <Burgundavia> \sh, gah, hate the stuff, too salty
[12:12] <\sh> Burgundavia: tried the chilli spiced one?
[12:12] <jsgotangco> ogra, we backport patches right?
[12:12] <Burgundavia> \sh, nope
[12:12] <\sh> Burgundavia: u should :) delicious
[12:13] <\sh> Burgundavia: but it's hard to get it here in .de
[12:13] <ogra> jsgotangco, to where ? to the stable version ? only if they fix very serious or security bugs
[12:13] <Burgundavia> \sh, is next to impossible to get in .ca
[12:13] <jsgotangco> ogra, say firefox update
[12:13] <Burgundavia> but we occasionly get some from the family in .za
[12:13] <ogra> yep
[12:13] <jsgotangco> ogra, version stays the same, except patches are taken from source
[12:13] <ogra> jsgotangco, yep
[12:14] <Burgundavia> I remember when we used to have to get rooibos tea because of the sanctions
[12:14] <\sh> Burgundavia: ah :) u know...i found a german wholesaler who is selling 100g biltong for 9.50 EUR
[12:14] <Burgundavia> sent from za that is
[12:14] <\sh> Burgundavia: i know rooibos tea :)
[12:14] <\sh> my ex-wife had everything at home :)
[12:15] <Burgundavia> the funny part is, people used to get it into .ca by calling it vita tea, and not mentioned where it was from
[12:16] <\sh> Burgundavia: well, there is a lot of stuff, I used to like to eat when I was in .za, but I won't get it here in .de...there r really nice candy/chocolatebars from nestle...I never saw here in germany
[12:17] <\sh> and it's not possible to buy it here in .de cause nestle doesn't want to produce it for .de :(
[12:17] <\sh> but this is quite OT here ;) 
[12:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:18] <\sh> anyways...I need to find a support source for this...*noted*
[12:24] <svenl> hi all.
[12:24] <svenl> is there a known problem with X fonts right now ?
=== svenl can't birng up X after having upgraded my powerbook to breezy, which sucks:)
[12:25] <Burgundavia> svenl, yes there is
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[12:25] <svenl> Burgundavia: cool.
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: gosh, how on earth can you live with bugzilla.gnome.org? I don't want to login five times to file a bug
[12:25] <svenl> Burgundavia: any known workaround ?
[12:25] <svenl> pitti: hehe.
[12:25] <svenl> pitti: most people then don't fill bugs.
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: ?
[12:26] <tseng> what sucks is keeping track of all your bugzilla passwords
[12:26] <tseng> or going back and chacnging them all
[12:26] <svenl> Burgundavia: or description of the problem i can access from pure textmode ?
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: I log 1 time and it's ok until an IP change 
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: for me not, I have to relogin after _each_ page 
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: now try malone, every time you close your browser you need to log again
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: right
[12:26] <seb128> blame firefox
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: but usually I don't close my browser while filing a bug
[12:27] <seb128> bugzilla works like a charm for years here
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: b.ubuntu.com does, but not b.gnome.org
[12:27] <seb128> b.g.o does here
[12:27] <seb128> maybe that's a security stuff from firefox?
[12:27] <seb128> it's not https
[12:28] <Kamion> svenl: font path's changed
[12:28] <svenl> Kamion: yeah.
[12:28] <Kamion> suspect that's it
[12:28] <svenl> Kamion: i got a message from defoma telling about it, but the fonts in the config file match that message.
[12:28] <Kamion>    * Change default font paths from /usr/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/X11/fonts
[12:28] <Kamion>      in default xorg.conf and also in update-fonts-*, which really need to move
[12:28] <svenl> Kamion: and it seems to be a debian defoma message since it speaks about XFree86.0.log
[12:28] <Kamion>      to another source package.
[12:29] <Kamion> I imagine if you switch the font path in xorg.conf it'll work
[12:29] <tseng> it surely does.
[12:30] <Burgundavia> seb128, gnome-panel is ftfbs
[12:30] <svenl> what about the defoma font paths ? 
[12:30] <seb128> Burgundavia: you get mails about ftbfs?
[12:30] <Burgundavia> seb128, no I check the page
[12:31] <seb128> k
[12:31] <seb128> HATE this bz2 stuff
[12:31] <Burgundavia> so do I
[12:31] <svenl> mmm, didn't help.
[12:31] <seb128> Burgundavia: buildd issue, need lamont
[12:32] <svenl> mmm, there is no /usr/share/X11
[12:32] <tseng> its /usr/share/fonts/*
[12:32] <Burgundavia> seb128, I was eagerly awaiting menu editing
[12:32] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's because libgnome-menu2 is universe instead of main, needs elmo
[12:32] <svenl> and the fonts are in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts
[12:32] <tseng> no, they arent
[12:33] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's gnome-menus which is built for a day now
[12:33] <seb128> no need of the new panel
[12:33] <tseng> Burgundavia: just run gmenu-simple-editor by hand
[12:33] <svenl> tseng: /usr/share/fonts only has truetype and type1 fonts though.
[12:33] <tseng> svenl: ...
[12:33] <tseng> and actually works
[12:34] <tseng> comeon dude, this is not a support channel
[12:34] <tseng> try #ubuntu
[12:34] <svenl> tseng: hehe.
[12:34] <tseng> we told you where to look
[12:34] <svenl> tseng: ok.
[12:34] <tseng> thanks.
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[12:36] <Kamion> calc: so what's this about debconf?
[12:40] <svenl> damn, the 2.6.12-rc kernel dies when waking up, and benh probably is sleeping now.
[12:40] <svenl> mmm, sorry, wrong channel ... 
[12:43] <svenl> tseng: i know it is no support channel, but i did an apt-gte upgrade today, and the fonts are in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts, not in /usr/share/fonts nor in /usr/lib/X11/fonts
[12:43] <svenl> (powerpc packages though).
[12:44] <svenl> and setting it to that in xorg.conf indeed fixes it.
[12:44] <svenl> so i don't know what is going on here.
[12:45] <tseng>          FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi"
[12:45] <tseng>          FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi"
[12:45] <tseng>          FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/Type1"
[12:45] <tseng> i have those, it works fine for me
[12:45] <tseng> thats about all i can tell you
[12:48] <Kamion> X is still in the middle of a pretty major transition
[12:49] <Kamion> yes, it may be broken
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[12:55] <jsgotangco> bye bye we're watching star wars *grin*
[12:57] <pitti> jsgotangco: enjoy :-)
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[01:11] <\sh> it's already out as an dvdrip ;)
[01:12] <svenl> Kamion: are you running 2.6.12 kernel on your powerbook ? When you have some time can you try it out and try to sleep ? I think it dies each time when you do that.
[01:13] <Kamion> svenl: no, I'm not yet
[01:14] <Kamion> still on a patched 2.6.9 *cough*
[01:15] <svenl> not even running the hoary kernel ? 
[01:15] <elmo> Kamion: dude
[01:15] <svenl> Kamion: please do, and tell me your powerbook model.
[01:15] <pitti> svenl: I have 2.6.12 running on my iBook G4, sleep works well
[01:15] <svenl> Kamion: i need to investigate this with benh this evening.
[01:16] <svenl> pitti: thanks for the info.
[01:17] <koke> pitti: yesterday I tried 2.6.12 and crashed when resuming (ibook G4 too)
[01:17] <Kamion> svenl: my powerbook runs Debian because it's also my Debian development system
[01:17] <koke> I still use a patched 2.6.9 too :)
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[01:18] <svenl> Kamion: lasfckl;asdj
[01:19] <Kamion> same to you
[01:20] <svenl> Kamion: sorry.
[01:20] <Kamion> :-)
[01:20] <svenl> arg, no network anymore.
[01:23] <zyga> does nfs need some tuning from default setup? I currently see tragic performance with 2.6.12 on amd64?
[01:24] <svenl> Kamion: can you give it a try or something sometime ? 
[01:24] <tseng> i can suggest you set rsize and wsize
[01:25] <tseng> rsize=8192,wsize=8192 in your fstab
[01:25] <tseng> see man nfs for more detail.
[01:26] <tseng> i also see improvement by using tcp
[01:27] <Kamion> svenl: sure, when I'm not too busy
[01:27] <tseng> if you can.
[01:28] <svenl> Kamion: please do.
[01:29] <svenl> Kamion: preferable before the breezy release :)
[01:30] <Kamion> breezy will be on 2.6.12 before the breezy release anyway
[01:30] <Treenaks> maybe even .13?
[01:30] <Kamion> so I'll be trying it out then at the latest
[01:30] <zyga> tseng: I'll try 
=== tseng is off for the day
[01:31] <tseng> bye.
[01:34] <svenl> Kamion: sure, but it would be nice if we fixed that bug before 2.6.12 is out :)
[01:36] <JaneW> Someone has requested that Breezy include Beagle - comments?
[01:37] <Burgundavia> JaneW, I thought that was already going to be default
[01:38] <Burgundavia> JaneW, but don't quote me on it
[01:38] <Kamion> JaneW: that's part of the Mono spec
[01:38] <ogra> JaneW, it is ready to go in after all the transitions are done.... but i'm not sure if we want beagle in main or only its bindings (mono)
[01:38] <Burgundavia> JaneW, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono
[01:39] <JaneW> oic... thanks
[01:42] <Burgundavia> JaneW, if you want to pass anything on to me, that is fine
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[01:48] <pitti> mvo: ping
[01:48] <mvo> pitti: pong
[02:01] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks for the pyblosxom sync.
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[02:06] <calc> Kamion: when trying to use the DEBCONF_DB_FALLBACK or _OVERRIDE variables
[02:07] <calc> libpaper1.config for example reads the value in /etc/papersize and then sets it. it somehow overwrites the setting in OVERRIDE file
[02:08] <calc> then debconf checks the OVERRIDE file to see what you wanted the answer to be for automated installs which is no longer correct
[02:08] <calc> also when it writes the updated config.dat it uses the file you provided in OVERRIDE instead of the system config.dat should that be happening?
[02:09] <calc> iow DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive DEBCONF_DB_OVERRIDE=File{/root/config.dat} dpkg-reconfigure -plow -a  causes the config.dat in /root to be the up to date one /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is no longer up to date
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[02:12] <Kamion> ok, I've never used DEBCONF_DB_{FALLBACK,OVERRIDE} so I'm not used to them
[02:12] <calc> ok
[02:12] <Kamion> which are you saying takes precedence? the value the .config just set, or OVERRIDE?
[02:13] <Kamion> it wouldn't surprise me if it were the former, OVERRIDE basically just stacks an extra named database on top of the ones in debconf.conf
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[02:13] <calc> OVERRIDE takes precedence over /var/cache/debconf/config.dat, however it is used for both reads and writes and since it is used for both reads and writes when something like libpaper sets up its initial value it can not use the value you want it to use
[02:14] <calc> imho it should only be used for reads
[02:14] <Kamion> you should be able to set it up that way
[02:15] <Kamion> add Readonly{true} or whatever the syntax is
[02:15] <calc> oh? hmm
[02:16] <calc> it wasn't mentioned in debconf(7) i'll look around for the syntax of that once i get to work
[02:16] <Kamion> File{/root/config.dat Readonly:true}
[02:16] <Kamion> I think
[02:16] <calc> too bad i have no net access at work :\
[02:16] <calc> Kamion: ah ok :)
[02:16] <Kamion> don't know if that's documented
[02:17] <Kamion> you can sort of infer it from debconf(7) but it isn't clear
[02:17] <calc> the examples in debconf(7) for automated installs should use that syntax otherwise you end up with an invalid system config.dat
[02:18] <calc> well FALLBACK database are apparently readonly by default
[02:18] <calc> doesn't say about OVERRIDE
[02:19] <Kamion> FALLBACK is probably only readonly because debconf finds another writable database first
[02:19] <calc> ah yea
=== Goshawk [~Vincenzo@host242-113.pool8249.interbusiness.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:19] <calc> thanks for the suggestions :) i have to leave for work now
[02:19] <Kamion> debconf.conf(5) says writes go to the first writable database on the stack
[02:19] <calc> ok
[02:19] <Kamion> ok, let me know if it works and I can arrange for that to be documented
[02:20] <Kamion> the Readonly:true thing
[02:20] <calc> yea :)
[02:25] <Kamion> is anyone working on getting a new OOo2 milestone into breezy?
[02:25] <Kamion> doko? (I know you're busy with C++ ...)
[02:26] <doko> Kamion: yes, it's on my list ;)
[02:26] <Kamion> ok, anyone else who's unloaded and might be able to do it?
[02:27] <doko> Kamion: I started on it, so give me the weekend ...
[02:28] <Kamion> ok, cool
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[02:45] <JaneW> hi guys nag time
=== Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-134.wireless.uva.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:46] <JaneW> could all leads on Breezy Goals please makes sure there is at least a one sentance explaination of the state of their goal. i.e. Where the goals is now and the next required/planed step.
[02:46] <JaneW> many thanks.
[02:47] <JaneW> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
=== pitti tries to grab a lock
[02:48] <\sh> we need an online webbased project management tool
[02:48] <jdub> dotproject
[02:48] <\sh> url?
[02:48] <jdub> is an interesting option
[02:48] <jdub> dotproject.org i think
[02:48] <jdub> JaneW: you might want to check it out
[02:48] <jdub> JaneW: was pretty rad last time i used it
[02:49] <\sh> ah jdub...ogra reminded me to give u my blog rss feed ;)
[02:49] <ogra> yeah
[02:49] <jdub> \sh: you're a member?
[02:49] <ogra> yep
[02:49] <ogra> since last CC
[02:49] <\sh> jdub: jep
[02:49] <jdub> your whois info says you're saint hermann ;)
[02:49] <ogra> hehe
[02:49] <\sh> st. == stephan :)
[02:49] <\sh> but saint is also right ,-)
[02:50] <ogra> lol
[02:50] <jdub> ;-)
[02:50] <jdub> aha
=== jdub links nick to person now :)
[02:50] <jdub> \sh: what's the url?
[02:50] <JaneW> jdub: ok thanks
[02:50] <seb128> graah, what are the gal guys doing
[02:51] <\sh> jdub: only a ubuntu category feed or complete blog feed?
[02:51] <ogra> seb128, what are they doing ?
[02:51] <\sh> rss2 or atom?
=== UbuWu [~UbuWu@h82151173197.dsl.speedlinq.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:51] <\sh> rss2 is better
[02:51] <\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/feeds/index.rss2
[02:51] <seb128> the tarball doesn't even build, they have not put new .h files here ... they don't even try to build before pushing a tarball?
[02:51] <jdub> \sh: whatever your preference - planet is all abuot getting to know the people, as well as what they're hacking on :)
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[02:51] <ogra> seb128, crazy
[02:52] <seb128> that, and gal-2.5 has a libgal-2.4 instead of libgal-2.6, so conflicts with -2.4
[02:52] <seb128> I spoke about that 2 weeks ago for 2.5.1, they said that's fixed with the CVS
[02:52] <ogra> seb128, even more crazy
[02:52] <seb128> and 2.5.2 still have it
[02:52] <ogra> hmm, overwritten by a merge .... ?
[02:53] <seb128> what?
[02:53] <\sh> jdub: nice thing that is...
[02:53] <seb128> upstream bug, they are versionned the lib incorrectly
=== Safari_Al [~tr@ppp231-201.lns3.adl2.internode.on.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:53] <seb128> s/are/have/
[02:53] <\sh> ogra: check out dotproject.net
[02:53] <jdub> \sh: got a hackergotchi?
[02:54] <\sh> jdub: a what?
[02:54] <jdub> \sh: a little floating head icon :)
[02:54] <ogra> \sh, send me a photo, i'll make one for you
[02:54] <jdub> \sh: planet.gnome.org/heads/
[02:54] <\sh> ogra: take it from shermann.blogweb.de ;) this is the only digital photo i have of myself ;)
[02:54] <ogra> \sh, oki
[02:54] <\sh> ogra: cut out the face..the rest is lycos stuff ;-)
[02:55] <ogra> jdub, i'll send it to you over the wekend
[02:55] <JaneW> jdub: was that URL correct?
[02:55] <jdub> JaneW: dotproject.net
[02:55] <\sh> ogra: thx :)
[02:55] <jdub> ogra: thanks!
[02:55] <ogra> :)
[02:56] <jdub> JaneW: do you have a blog?
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=== herzi [~herzi@d015172.adsl.hansenet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== \sh can provide blogs under blogweb.de if anyone needs one :) serendipity blogs of course :)
[02:56] <JaneW> jdub: nope, not yet, I send out random mass mailings though
[02:57] <jdub> JaneW: if you're keen, you could set one up on blogspot or advogato - i'll put you on planet
[02:57] <JaneW> jdub: I have just not compiled them in one place, it;s easier for me to dodge accountability this way ;)
[02:58] <JaneW> jdub: I have been pondering the idea for a while, so yeah it could be cool, thanks.
[02:58] <JaneW> jdub: on and happy belated one month anniversary for Tuesday.
[02:59] <jdub> JaneW: :-)
[03:00] <JaneW> jdub: dotproject.net looks better....
[03:01] <\sh> ogra: w8 a moment with the picture ... i think I have more pics of me...better ones ;)
[03:01] <ogra> \sh, mail me one...
[03:02] <\sh> ogra: jepp
[03:04] <\sh> jdub: size of the picture should be?
[03:04] <jdub> \sh: give ogra a nice photo, whatever size :)
[03:04] <jdub> the hackergotchi will end up being around 70-80px squard
[03:04] <jdub> square
[03:04] <ogra> i'll scale it down the
[03:04] <ogra> then even
[03:04] <\sh> jdub: k...drop shadow?
[03:05] <jdub> nice translucent one
[03:05] <ogra> \sh, i'll do it, just send the pic
[03:05] <jdub> see planet.gnome.org/heads/ for examples
[03:05] <jdub> drop shadow is best when it's not black
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[03:12] <JaneW> how hard is it to make those cut outs?
[03:12] <ogra> JaneW, depends how good you are with gimp ;)
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[03:13] <JaneW> ogra: well I tried today, I was not that good, I am more used to PhotoShop
[03:13] <trulux> back
[03:13] <trulux> pitti: heya
[03:14] <pitti> hey trulux 
[03:14] <pitti> trulux: can I get new crack? :-)
[03:14] <trulux> pitti: sure
[03:14] <trulux> pitti: one sec
[03:14] <trulux> pitti: need to do some stuff
[03:14] <trulux> ;)
[03:14] <pitti> take your time
[03:15] <ogra> JaneW, http://www.grep.be/blog/lj/21322
[03:16] <ogra> JaneW, but your haircut could make it an advanced task ;)
[03:17] <JaneW> ogra: *LOL*
[03:17] <JaneW> ogra: i't amazing, there's a how-to for everything on the net ;)
[03:17] <ogra> :)
=== JaneW books haircut immediatly
[03:17] <Treenaks> JaneW: you didn't know that yet? :)
[03:17] <ogra> lol
[03:18] <JaneW> ogra: my haircut makes drawing for my son very easy, he just has to scribble, and hey presto a perfect likeness to mommy!
[03:18] <trulux> pitti: could you tell hwt you have when you boot up the kernel with krsec=1 ( dmesg | grep krsec)
[03:18] <JaneW> Treenaks: well yes I do, but it's still sometimes amazing just how pervasive it is
[03:18] <\sh> ogra: i have time .. so I'm learning to create hackergotchis now ;)
[03:18] <pitti> trulux: lemme reboot...
[03:18] <ogra> JaneW, and you are recognizeable in a crowd as well ;)
[03:18] <ogra> \sh, ok :)
[03:18] <JaneW> ogra: I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing!
[03:19] <ogra> JaneW, for your son its a good thing i guess
[03:19] <JaneW> ogra: good diplomatic answer!
[03:19] <jdub> haha
[03:20] <ogra> *g*
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[03:22] <pitti> trulux: odd
=== JaneW must go out for a bit 
[03:22] <pitti> trulux: first message: "krsec: enabled (after init)"
[03:22] <pitti> trulux: a little later "krsec: Could not init"
[03:22] <pitti> trulux: all sysctls are off
[03:22] <seb128> mvo, pitti: what does the gksuui bug do? :)
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: uncle Vogt fixed it
[03:23] <trulux> pitti: right, stupid bug
[03:23] <trulux> pitti: seems fixed here
[03:23] <seb128> pitti: I ask what is the bug :p
[03:23] <seb128> I just read the changelog on -changes
[03:23] <seb128>    * debian/patches/02_fix_gksu_ask_pass.diff:
[03:23] <seb128>      - fix a bug in the gksu_ask_password code (thanks to pitti
[03:23] <seb128>        for finding it)
[03:23] <trulux> pitti: will uplaod new patch for 2.6.11 (just came back from school)
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: it didn't give a rat's ass about the arguments you gave it :-)
[03:23] <seb128> that doesn't really inform
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: it completely ignored the title and text arguments
[03:23] <seb128> just push you to ask what the bug is :p
[03:24] <seb128> k
[03:24] <seb128> thanks :)
[03:24] <seb128> (right, I'm curious)
[03:24] <pitti> trulux: any chance to work on 2.6.12? would be way faster for me
[03:25] <ogra> seb128, i think its the "crash xscreensaver caused by time-admin" bug, that turned out to be a gksu bug
[03:25] <seb128> how does it stop xscreensaver?
[03:27] <ogra> seb128, by rewriting the uid in a auth file... i'll look up the bug for you, wait a sec
[03:27] <seb128> don't bother
[03:28] <trulux> pitti: yes, bbl, lunch time
[03:28] <mvo> ogra: that "xscreensaver thing is not restarted" should be fixed now
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[03:29] <ogra> mvo, thanks :) thats what i suspected fter reading the changelog :)
[03:29] <Kamion> oh, eek, I think the debconf passthrough frontend has some very fundamental localisation issues
[03:29] <ogra> seb128, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8684
[03:30] <\sh> ogra: transparent png?
[03:30] <ogra> \sh, yep
[03:33] <\sh> ogra: http://linux.blogweb.de/images/hackergotchi.png something like this?
[03:33] <seb128> ogra: thanks
[03:33] <ogra> \sh, soften the edges before you cut out the head
[03:34] <\sh> oh yes...
[03:34] <ogra> \sh, and if possible, try to get the neck a bit more rounded at the bottom...
[03:34] <ogra> (its cut off)
[03:35] <ogra> \sh, probably its enough to check the resize option in the drop shadow function...
[03:38] <trulux> back
[03:40] <\sh> i will cut out the neck...i don't need a neck ;9
[03:41] <ogra> yeah, who needs a neck anyway, lets all look in the same direction and we dont need necks anymore :)
[03:44] <\sh> ehe...no i have it now
[03:45] <\sh> now the edges..how can i soften them
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[03:48] <\sh> ogra: check again pls :)
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[03:49] <ogra> \sh, hmm, the edges are still satairstepping....
[03:49] <seb128> http://gentoo.ovibes.net/nautilus-share/mediawiki-1.4.4/index.php/Accueil
[03:50] <mdke> nice
[03:51] <\sh> ogra: well...it's coming from and bad jpeg..so forget about the edges...i'm running a blur over it now ;)
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[03:51] <ogra> \sh, argh.. no, dont, rather leave the steps in...
[03:52] <\sh> ogra: hehe...just joking :)
[03:52] <ogra> seb128, so we are missing some automatic setup of smb.conf now :)
[03:52] <mdke> yeah
[03:53] <\sh> ogra: and now?
[03:53] <ogra> \sh, ?
[03:53] <\sh> ogra: check again ;)
[03:53] <\sh> it's ok now...
[03:53] <ogra> hmm, blurry
[03:54] <\sh> doesn't matter...if somebody wants to meet me ;)
[03:54] <ogra> heh
[03:59] <trulux> pitti: going to try some stuff
[04:06] <pitti> trulux: can you please test it locally?
[04:06] <pitti> trulux: changing a bit in an already compiled tree and recompile is fast
[04:06] <pitti> trulux: but that's difficult when I have to port the patch and generate a deb
[04:12] <trulux> pitti: uploading a new one which is a little bit enhanced
[04:12] <pitti> trulux: does it work?
[04:12] <pitti> tested?
[04:13] <ogra> \sh, www.grawert.net/sh.png
[04:14] <Treenaks> he has a neck!
[04:14] <trulux> pitti: it will
[04:14] <seb128> pitti: you ignored me this morning, so I ask again :p Should I change gstreamer now, or that's waiting or some others changes from you first?
[04:14] <trulux> pitti: when you habe been doing something for some time on somehow way that makes you able to make it even blindly, you can assess the risk of saying "it will" ;)
[04:15] <pitti> seb128: I didn't see that message, sorry
[04:15] <seb128> I guessed so, no need to be sorry :)
[04:15] <pitti> seb128: it's waiting for the sync of alsa-lib
[04:15] <seb128> k
[04:16] <pitti> seb128: I asked elmo twice, but he didn't have time yet
[04:16] <trulux> pitti: uploading refreshed patch
[04:16] <trulux> pitti: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/security/kern-security-1.patch
[04:17] <trulux> pitti: haven't tested it, going to transit to 2.6.12 now
[04:17] <pitti> trulux: which file did you change, compared to the last patch?
[04:17] <trulux> security.c and Kconfig from security/*
[04:17] <pitti> trulux: can you please just give me the changed file? then I bang it into the compiled tree, then it's a matter of minutes
[04:17] <pitti> KERN_SECURITY_BOOT_PARAM_VALUE
[04:17] <pitti> NOOOO
[04:17] <pitti> not another config parameter
[04:18] <pitti> trulux: adding another parameter *really*, *REALLY* hurts
[04:18] <trulux> that's for sanity, man
[04:18] <trulux> check the other settings, and nom, it doesn't hurt. I'm doing it same way as SELinux does
[04:18] <pitti> trulux: but that's the purpose of KERN_SECURITY_DEFAULT_SETTING
[04:18] <trulux> nope
[04:18] <pitti> trulux: why have two parameters for the same thing?
[04:19] <trulux> pitti: it's not for the same thing....
[04:19] <pitti> +config KERN_SECURITY_DEFAULT_SETTING
[04:19] <pitti> +	bool "Enable all options by default"
[04:19] <pitti> +	depends on KERN_SECURITY
[04:19] <pitti> +	help
[04:19] <pitti> +	  This option defines the default availability of all the features
[04:19] <pitti> +	  provided by krsec. If it's selected, all features will be enabled at
[04:19] <pitti> +	  boot time, instead of leaving them disabled until they get enabled
[04:19] <pitti> +	  manually by the sysctl.
[04:19] <pitti> this very much sounds like the thing I ask for
[04:19] <trulux> listen
=== pitti listens
[04:19] <trulux> you still don't get how it works
[04:19] <trulux> I'll explain
[04:20] <trulux> and apologize of being an asshole with it
[04:20] <trulux> first we have a boot kernel parameter
[04:20] <trulux> append="selinux=0"
[04:20] <trulux> that would disable aselinux at boot time
[04:20] <trulux> krsec does same thing
[04:20] <trulux> provides a generalized krsec= option
[04:21] <trulux> the point is that we can choose the default value it can take if nothing is appended to kenrel command line
[04:21] <trulux> KERN_SECURITY_BOOT_PARAM_VALUE
[04:21] <trulux> so
[04:21] <trulux> on the __setup thing, we check if the __init call has been already called
[04:21] <trulux> if it does, the krsec_enable thing re-checks so we have krsec_enable set either to 0 or 1
[04:22] <trulux> ALL checks and helpers functions will check first for that krsec_enabled
[04:22] <trulux> which can be changed at boot and runtime
[04:22] <trulux> at boot you'll get it off by default, on runtime you can do it dynamically
=== henriquemaia [~henriquem@cb-217-129-175-184.netvisao.pt]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:22] <trulux> if (krsec_enabled && security_fs_linking_enabled && current->fsuid != inode->i_uid &&
[04:22] <trulux> got it?
[04:23] <trulux> it will default to 1 though
[04:23] <trulux> pitti: fixing the entry for default sysctl setting on Kconfig
[04:23] <trulux> should be an int and not a stupid bool
[04:23] <trulux> range 0 1
[04:23] <trulux> 	default 1
[04:23] <trulux> that makes the user either selecting 0 or 1 and nothing more, defaulting to 1
[04:24] <trulux> is it OK for you now?
[04:24] <trulux> you need to read *all the context*, not only certain code blocks. need to have a perspective on how it works
[04:24] <trulux> it's like women
=== trulux grins
[04:24] <\sh> ogra: u r right...it's nicer then my try ;)
[04:25] <ogra> \sh, take it or leave it ;) i wont delete it :)
[04:25] <pitti> trulux: it still looks somewhat redundant to me, but if you think that's the way to go, then for my sake...
[04:26] <\sh> ogra: send it to jdub ;)
[04:26] <ogra> \sh, oki
[04:26] <pitti> trulux: wouldn't a bool be more appropriate?
[04:29] <trulux> pitti: it's just the way I like to do it. making it a bool would be simplier, but who cares. I can change it, it will work same way. just less completeness
[04:30] <Kamion> elmo: please sync fdutils 5.4-20040228-4 from unstable; OK to override Ubuntu changes
[04:30] <trulux> pitti: same location, refreshed (http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/security/kern-security-1.patch)
[04:31] <pitti> trulux: okay, this requires a completely new build and to completely redo the packaging changes *sigh*
[04:31] <trulux> pitti: will change into 2.6.12, I apologize
[04:31] <trulux> doing it right now
[04:32] <pitti> trulux: oh, so shall I wait until you have the 2.6.12 patch?
[04:32] <pitti> trulux: you only need to change the sysctl from 68 to 69 and adapt the kernel/Makefile
[04:32] <trulux> pitti: OK
[04:32] <trulux> pitti: thanks
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[04:37] <trulux> pitti: what do you want? rc4? git? (snapshot)
[04:37] <pitti> trulux: see your mail
[04:38] <pitti> trulux: our breezy version
[04:38] <pitti> 2.6.12rc4
[04:38] <Kamion> elmo: please sync docbook-xml 4.4-4 from unstable; OK to override Ubuntu changes
[04:38] <trulux> pitti: 2.6.12-rc4, sure? (I need a stackable patch, not a whole sources tarball)
[04:39] <daniels> morning kamion
[04:39] <pitti> elmo: if you are at it, please sync alsa-lib, too ; TIA
[04:39] <pitti> trulux: yeah, sure
[04:42] <Kamion> hi daniels
=== zenrox [~zenrox@wbar7.sea1-4-4-043-090.sea1.dsl-verizon.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:43] <trulux> pitti: thanks
[04:48] <trulux> pitti: I need to fix a bug in andrew morton's patch-scripts, will send him a patch and then re-refresh the patch for 2.6.12
[04:48] <trulux> pitti: will take a short while
[04:48] <trulux> BTW, anyone has seen The Exorcist: The Beginning?
=== JaneW [~JaneW@wbs-146-160-148.telkomadsl.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:56] <Simira> who is the laptop compability guy?
[04:56] <Kamion> mjg59
[04:57] <Simira> ok, thanks
[05:01] <Simira> hm, he's asleep
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[05:03] <Simira> enrico_ :)
=== enrico_ is now known as enrico
[05:04] <enrico> Hi!
[05:04] <Simira> Kamion: you know some laptop stuff too, don't you? bjorninge her has a problem with the battery state indication on his Toshiba
[05:04] <mdke> hi enrico 
[05:04] <Simira> s/her/here
[05:04] <Kamion> Simira: me? no
[05:05] <bjorninge> :(
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[05:07] <Simira> anyone else?
[05:07] <lamont> seb128: libwnck has nonPIC in shlibs
[05:08] <lamont> libwnck_2.11.1-0ubuntu1 to be precise... maybe I already told you that
[05:11] <elmo> kamion/pitti: syncs done
[05:11] <pitti> thanks
[05:11] <elmo> pitti: xmlto installed
[05:12] <pitti> great
[05:12] <elmo> doko: breezy/ia64 has binutils' build-deps
[05:12] <pitti> seb128: now you can upload the gstreamer :-)
[05:12] <elmo> seb128: galeon is still in the sync blacklist
[05:12] <Kamion> ta
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: ... so let's prepare for a long weekend's worth of furious bug reports about breaking sound :-)
[05:14] <doko> elmo: cool
[05:14] <doko> elmo: hmm, which host?
[05:14] <elmo> doko: halley
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[05:15] <elmo> hmm, help if I gave people passwd entries tho
=== lamont tries to remember the official process for requesting that a package move from universe to main
[05:16] <Kamion> elmo: can mountfloppy get synced, despite being new?
[05:16] <doko> seb128: hmm, but galeon depends on mozilla-dev, which thom did not update yet ..., so this has to be done first
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[05:16] <elmo> Kamion: it's not in NEW?
[05:17] <Kamion> elmo: sorry, I mean lower-case new to Ubuntu
[05:17] <Kamion> it's in Debian as of recently
[05:18] <elmo> Kamion: if it's not C++, I don't see why not
[05:18] <Kamion> it's not
[05:20] <jdub> elmo: planet sync please :)
[05:20] <pitti> jdub: you mean "main"?
[05:20] <daniels> elmo: if you could make sure x11proto-* gets NEWed tonight (your time), that'd be great, thanks
[05:21] <daniels> elmo: (* -> {bigreqs,composite,damage,evie,fixes})
[05:21] <jdub> pitti: (planet ubuntu)
[05:21] <elmo> Kamion: synced
[05:22] <elmo> jdub: done
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[05:24] <Goshawk> lp
[05:24] <Goshawk> ops sory
[05:24] <Goshawk> sorry
[05:24] <jdub> elmo: thanks
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[05:30] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ ldd /usr/bin/gnome-session | awk ' {print $3}' | grep ^\/ | sort | uniq | readahead-fileordering
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> does this program even do anything?
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> I'm trying to write a script that reads all of gnome ahead into memory
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[05:37] <zyga> bluefoxicy: hello
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> hi
[05:37] <zyga> bluefoxicy: reads all of gnome into memory?
[05:37] <daniels> elmo: thanks a lot
[05:37] <zyga> bluefoxicy: like prelink + cat $foo > /dev/null
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> wow this takes forever.
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  readahead running against everything ldd returns for gnome-session gnome-panel and nautilus
[05:38] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I wonder what windows does to get up so fast
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[05:39] <bluefoxicy> oh nm I had an infinite loop
[05:40] <ozamosi> zyga, when windows has "loaded up", half of the loading is still to go. After one minute it start to do something, and then it keeps doing things for about half an hour...
[05:40] <zyga> ozamosi: I know but it still has UI stuff for the user to look at alot faster
[05:40] <zyga> ozamosi: one thing FOSS can't do easily is preload window manager
[05:40] <zyga> ozamosi: unless this is a one-wm box
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[05:41] <seb128> lamont: yep, that's not NEW, but I need to learn how to fix such bugs, that's on my list :)
[05:41] <seb128> pitti: cool :)
[05:41] <lamont> ah, ok.
[05:41] <seb128> elmo: oh, k, thanks
[05:41] <bluefoxicy> ok what the FUCK
[05:41] <lamont> seb128: the answer is, of course, to use -fPIC and/or link shared libs against shared objects... :-)
[05:41] <seb128> s/NEW/new/ ...
[05:41] <bluefoxicy> shift control T
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> closes gnome-terminal
[05:42] <zyga> bluefoxicy: mind the s/F.../Frell/
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> now cookie goes to anyone who knows why I have a problem with this
[05:42] <seb128> lamont: yeah, that I know ... that's rather the autofoo stuff that are an issue for me atm :p
[05:42] <Kamion> it's a frequently reported bug at the moment
[05:44] <daniels> bluefoxicy: are you using breezy?
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  yes
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  you want some of my weed?  :/
=== bluefoxicy doesn't know what he was smoking when he switched to breezy but it must've been good stuff
[05:44] <zyga> btw, does anyone know how to probe for the right framebufer device?
[05:44] <zyga> (by right I mean for relevant graphics card)
[05:44] <daniels> bluefoxicy: known bug.  welcome to breezy ...
[05:45] <chmj> bluefoxicy: sure enough 
[05:45] <daniels> zyga: define 'right'
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  then I won't bother making a bug report
[05:45] <zyga> daniels: for example I have neomagic chip so I modprobe neofb
[05:45] <daniels> bluefoxicy: please don't, because there are already about 50
[05:45] <zyga> daniels: I could have modprobed for vesafb but that's suboptimal
[05:45] <Hatred> I keep getting these strange errors every time i try to use apt-get... ---> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room || E: Error occured while processing libhdf4g-doc (NewVersion1)
[05:45] <Hatred> can anyone help??
[05:45] <daniels> zyga: there's no real good way of doing this, and half of the framebuffer drivers are broken in various ways anyway
[05:45] <zyga> daniels: I see :/
[05:45] <daniels> zyga: (including really bad interactions with xorg)
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> daniels: do you have a good way for me to derive the executable to run from an icon?
[05:46] <zyga> daniels: I've got a bunch of really old laptops that I use from time to time ;] 
[05:46] <daniels> bluefoxicy: uhm, no.  why would I have that?
[05:46] <bluefoxicy> dunno
[05:46] <bluefoxicy> this is painful though.  A lot of these things run scripts that load the actual program
[05:46] <zyga> daniels: they got a few different chips and the tiny script I have just checks for hostname but that's poo
[05:46] <zyga> poor
[05:46] <bluefoxicy> I want nifty readahead tricks like on mouse over, readahead the app
[05:47] <daniels> um
[05:47] <zyga> bluefoxicy: you could do that for .desktop files
[05:47] <daniels> you know how to do that?  it doesn't involve getting the icon
[05:47] <daniels> it involves hacking nautilus/the panel or whatever to have a custom mouseover handler.
[05:47] <daniels> but this is offtopic for #ubuntu-devel, methinks
[05:47] <bluefoxicy> daniels: bluefox@icebox:~$ file /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox
[05:47] <bluefoxicy> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox: Bourne shell script text executable
[05:48] <daniels> bluefoxicy: dude, SO WHAT?
[05:48] <bluefoxicy> daniels: script I wrote runs ldd on an app and readaheads its entire first level list of libraries
[05:48] <daniels> ... look at the shell script, this isn't a bug
[05:48] <bluefoxicy> I know
[05:48] <daniels> please stop spamming #ubuntu-devel
[05:48] <Kamion> yeah, so change the .desktop files to have a mouseover handler that readaheads the real executable
[05:49] <bluefoxicy> oh
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[05:50] <daniels> Kamion: you'd need to extend the .desktop spec
[05:51] <doko> elmo: please sync libunwind from experimental
[05:51] <Kamion> daniels: yeah
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[05:57] <Hatred> I keep getting these strange errors every time i try to use apt-get... ---> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room || E: Error occured while processing libhdf4g-doc (NewVersion1)
[05:57] <Hatred> can anyone help??
[05:57] <Kamion> do you have a very old version of apt?
[05:57] <Kamion> or an incredibly large number of entries in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[05:58] <Kamion> (http://bugs.debian.org/178623)
[05:59] <jordi> ah, the memories
[05:59] <Hatred> no niether
[06:00] <Hatred> 8 in my sources.list
[06:00] <Hatred> ' apt 0.5.28.6 for linux i386 '
[06:01] <Kamion> that's the version from Debian testing/unstable, not the one in the current version of Ubuntu
[06:03] <Hatred> aah i see :s
[06:04] <Kamion> we recommend against mixing Debian and Ubuntu repositories; our apt hackers say that it confuses apt
[06:04] <Kamion> or at least mdz did
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[06:07] <daniels> elmo: having x11proto-dmx too would be great
[06:08] <Hatred> so what do i do Kamion ?
[06:12] <Kamion> Hatred: ask for help in #ubuntu rather than #ubuntu-devel? :-) I don't have any more information beyond what I've said so far ...
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[06:22] <abarbaccia> hey all - im running breezy and thought it would be good to point out that the whole thing broke today because of x not being able to find the font 'default'
[06:22] <cartman> abarbaccia: breezy is not supposed to used until cxx transition is over
[06:22] <daniels> the lesson here is 'don't run breezy unless you're confident fixing it when it breaks'
[06:23] <mdke> even then, think twice
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[06:24] <abarbaccia> daniels - well, usually little things i can fix - i just dont know how to adjust the font path
[06:24] <daniels> abarbaccia: xorg.conf
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[06:24] <cartman> daniels: xkb still foobared here btw but no new X.org hit to archive 
[06:24] <abarbaccia> thank you all!  i appreciate it
[06:25] <daniels> cartman: nope, I was asked not to upload, so I'm not
[06:25] <daniels> also, I'm going to sleep now since it's 0223 and my eyes are bleeding
[06:26] <cartman> daniels: -16 didn't hit either
[06:26] <cartman> but its uploaded
[06:26] <cartman> and logs says sucessfully built
[06:27] <cartman> must be a transition thing, nm
[06:28] <daniels> cartman: er, -16 is only on my hard drive at the moment
[06:28] <cartman> oh I am daydreaming then which is quite possible
[06:28] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/6.8.2-16/ -> 404
[06:28] <Kamion>       xorg |   6.8.2-15 |        breezy | source
[06:28] <cartman> was checking 6.8.1
[06:28] <cartman> :/
[06:28] <daniels> night
[06:28] <cartman> nighty night
[06:29] <Lathiat> woo x uploads
[06:33] <zyga> hello
[06:34] <zyga> could anyone confirm that 'http://dean.edwards.name/my/misbehaviors/#noIE-popup' sigsegv's their firefox?
[06:34] <zyga> it works on current ubuntu's ff on amd64
[06:38] <Treenaks> zyga: yes.
[06:38] <Treenaks> (i386)
[06:42] <g14> zyga: Does the same to mine
[06:42] <Lathiat> my firefox crsahed on that after a bit. :)
[06:42] <zyga> I'll try that on vainlla 1.0.4 and file a bug, thanks guys
[06:43] <Lathiat> glad not to be of help.. or something. :)
[06:43] <zyga> vanilla even :-)
[06:43] <cartman> doesn't crash here
[06:43] <zyga> err... no official for amd64?
[06:43] <cartman> 1.0.4 amd64 build from somewhere =)
[06:44] <cartman> zyga: right
[06:44] <zyga> cartman: interesting
[06:44] <cartman> http://www.srijith.net/firefox/index.shtml
[06:44] <cartman> I use those builds
[06:46] <zyga> tested again with -safe-mode, dies as well
[06:46] <zyga> d'oh.. I've got to build firefox *again*
[06:47] <Treenaks> zyga: <3 ccache
[06:47] <zyga> Treenaks: ?
[06:47] <zyga> Treenaks: ah :>
[06:47] <zyga> Treenaks: I'm more angry because I don't remember how to build it exactly ;] 
[06:47] <Treenaks> zyga: dpkg-buildpackage
[06:48] <zyga> thanks!
[06:48] <zyga> thom said a few days ago that security subdir is somewhat broken with regards to build process
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[06:54] <dholbach> hellas!
[06:54] <zyga> firefox depends on cairo? does that mean I get nifty svg stuff :> ?
[07:01] <thom> zyga: possibly
[07:02] <zyga> thom: hey I'm trying to build firefox ATM
[07:03] <JaneW> jdub: ping
[07:03] <zyga> thom: but I cannot remember how to enable debug, do I have to do anything explicitly?
[07:03] <JaneW> can anybody remeber what happened with FindingPackages after UDU?
[07:03] <JaneW> it's not explicitly part of the Breezy Goals now, and I can't remember what if anything was decided there...
[07:04] <cartman> thom: did have time to look at https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10679 ?
[07:04] <thom> zyga: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip debug"
[07:04] <thom> cartman: no, i've been offline the last couple of days
[07:04] <jdub> JaneW: it's a high priority goal
[07:05] <thom> you'll know when i've looked at it, because i'll do something with it
[07:05] <cartman> thom: ok
[07:05] <jdub> JaneW: it needs further specification though
[07:05] <doko> thom: do we need a new mozilla upload?
[07:05] <jdub> JaneW: (feedback from ISVs, our requirements, etc)
[07:05] <doko> (or is this already built with 3.4?)
[07:06] <thom> doko: istr building moz with 4.0
[07:06] <ogra> JaneW, mvo held it iirc
[07:06] <doko> thom: fine, you trust it? ;)
[07:06] <ogra> thom, your debug packages didnt crash :(
[07:07] <thom> ogra: i know, sucks much huh?
[07:07] <ogra> heh
[07:07] <dholbach> thom, ogra: where is the debug package? :-)
[07:07] <ogra> yeah, its a bit pointless to run a debug binary if it doesnt crash
[07:07] <zyga> thom: maybe you can tell me if fresh firefox crashes on the URL pasted above?
[07:07] <ogra> dholbach, got a i386 now ?
[07:08] <dholbach> no, i thought you referred to the debug package NOT crashing on AMD64
[07:08] <dholbach> then i'd given it a spin
[07:08] <ogra> dholbach, i reverted to mozilla-firefox for now.... it just costed me half of the mono stuff i'm just playing with
[07:09] <dholbach> (and even if it didn't crash, it'd be useful ;-))
[07:09] <thom> zyga: doesn't crash here
[07:09] <JaneW> jdub, ogra: but it doesn't even feature on the BreezyGoals page, and I can't rember why...
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[07:09] <ogra> hmm
[07:09] <zyga> thom: good, I'll build it here anyway just to be sure
[07:09] <jdub> JaneW: dunno, we'll have to ask :)
[07:10] <JaneW> jdub: ok
[07:10] <jdub> JaneW: please stick it in high though, we need it on the agenda :)
=== JaneW must go, dinner time
[07:10] <JaneW> jdub: will do
[07:10] <jdub> ciao
[07:11] <zyga> is there any wiki page that tracks xorg's transition? I could not find any
[07:11] <thom> cartman: i think you didn't read ther Changes file that NEWS.debian tells you to
[07:12] <thom> remove /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/perl.conf
[07:12] <cartman> thom: uhm shouldn't post install take of that?
[07:12] <Kamion> zyga: I think it's a "just do it" thing
[07:12] <thom> cartman: not so much, given it's a user modifiable file
[07:13] <seb128> elmo: can you fix libgnome-menu2 beeing universe instead of main? 
[07:13] <ogra> zyga, there is a roadmap page in the udu wiki
[07:13] <cartman> thom: ok but will I still have mod_perl ? /me goes to read the README
[07:13] <zyga> Kamion: the wiki page? I'd love to do it as long as I don't have to break my box
[07:13] <thom> cartman: yes
[07:13] <zyga> Kamion: (by installing halfway thru xorg)
[07:14] <cartman> thom: rocks thanks. Will you close the bug or shall I?
[07:14] <ogra> zyga, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/XRoadmap
=== dholbach points to the topic, reads "breezy probably well broken" and wonders what "probably" is doing there :-)
[07:15] <cartman> dholbach: its definitely broken :)
[07:15] <Treenaks> dholbach: it still Works For Me
[07:15] <Treenaks> but I don't dare logout ;)
[07:15] <zyga> ogra: thanks
=== ogra has no problems.... just dont upgrade ;)
[07:15] <zyga> ogra: I did upgrade two days ago
[07:16] <zyga> ogra: but that was on a box far far away 
[07:16] <ogra> heh
[07:16] <trulux> oh, pitti is gone ;(
[07:16] <ogra> it weekend :=
[07:16] <cartman> thom: I closed the bug with an explanation, thanks
[07:16] <ogra> its even ;)
[07:16] <zyga> ogra: I'd love to update it further to check if it works now but I cannot do that to my last box :-)
[07:16] <ogra> zyga, i wouldnt :)
[07:17] <ogra> as long as you need something that half way works
=== lamont lunches
[07:27] <Kamion> zyga: (what I originally meant was that daniels was just doing it all, but then I got distracted by the phone - XRoadmap was a good answer)
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[07:30] <doko> Kamion: what is dpkg-architecture supposed to print for DEB_BUILD_GNU_SYSTEMon the Hurd?
[07:32] <Kamion> doko: it's been a long time, but I think 'gnu'
[07:32] <Kamion> that's certainly what my reading of current Debian unstable dpkg-architecture says
[07:33] <doko> Kamion: yes, but breezy's dpkg-architecture ...
[07:34] <Kamion> doko: same
[07:34] <doko> one bit that didn't change? amazing :)
[07:34] <Kamion> heh
[07:35] <Kamion> Keybuk had already fixed dpkg-architecture upstream BTW, he just forgot to upload it ;)
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[07:37] <nxvl> hi
[07:37] <Riddell> Kamion: any opinion on letting a Kopete package into hoary-updates so Kopete users can use MSN?
[07:38] <nxvl> im looking in the web page if there is some point in i can help, but i can't found how is the proces to become an Ubuntu Developer
[07:39] <Riddell> nxvl: MOTU
[07:39] <dholbach> nxvl: you may want to join #ubuntu-motu :-)
[07:39] <nxvl> Riddell: !?
[07:39] <nxvl> Riddell: and this is??
[07:39] <Riddell> https://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/MOTU
[07:39] <nxvl> ok
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[07:40] <nxvl> thnk u
[07:40] <Riddell> nxvl: universe maintainers, help them out somehow then go through the membership process http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
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[07:40] <Kamion> Riddell: I saw something about that earlier, and thought I'd replied, but I can't remember now what channel it was on
[07:40] <trulux> tseng: heya folk
[07:40] <Kamion> Riddell: jdub said he thought it was a good idea, and I agree
[07:41] <trulux> going to rebuild some packages
[07:41] <trulux> wanna write some on PSC 1350
[07:41] <trulux> we need some scripts around to get this all working
=== trulux sets weekend-hackathon mode ON
[07:41] <Riddell> Kamion: cool, want to check before I upload?
[07:42] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah, put the diff somewhere and give me the URL?
[07:42] <Riddell> it's not trivial  http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/kdenetwork/kdenetwork.diff
[07:44] <Kamion> you're not kidding - ok, let me read through all this
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[07:45] <Riddell> it's mostly just adding a file sslloginhandler.cpp,h which is taken from KMail I think
[07:46] <cartman> Riddell: taken from KMess
[07:46] <cartman> which is an msn client for KDE
[07:47] <Riddell> cartman: ah, interesting
[07:47] <cartman> it looks cool :)
[07:47] <dholbach> KMess is a bit unlucky name :-)
[07:48] <cartman> dholbach: heh indeed
[07:48] <cartman> they meant KMessenger possibly
[07:49] <Kamion> +  // Get everything between "DLLogin=" and to the comma.
[07:49] <Kamion> +  serverData = serverData.right( serverData.length() - serverData.find( "DALogin=" ) - 8 );
[07:49] <Kamion> I assume it's the comment that's wrong rather than the code? :)
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[07:50] <Kamion> OK, well, er, yuck, I'm glad I don't write IM code
[07:50] <Kamion> but it seems a reasonable update
[07:50] <Kamion> that's directly backported from a new upstream release?
[07:50] <Kamion> and tested?
[07:50] <cartman> Kamion: yes
[07:50] <Riddell> fixes it for me
[07:51] <cartman> its tested <-- yes to this
[07:51] <Kamion> ok, go ahead and upload to hoary-updates
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[07:51] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, directly taken from 3.4.1 SVN
[07:51] <Riddell> Kamion: do you know if the c++ blocks will reject it?
[07:52] <Kamion> nothing in hoary-updates is actually being built at the moment AFAIK; you'll probably have to be patient until next week
[07:52] <Riddell> Kamion: if I upload will it keep it there until next week or should I just upload later?
[07:53] <mako> Kamion: i'll have a few things for that :)
[07:55] <Kamion> Riddell: upload it now, if it doesn't build it'll sit there as source, like knetworkconf
[07:55] <Riddell> ok
[07:56] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the version number to use for hoary-updates?  2.1 or 3?
[07:59] <Kamion> it doesn't really matter, but if you use 3 then you won't be able to use that for breezy, which might be confusing - so I'd be inclined to use 2.1
[08:02] <zyga> thom: ping
[08:03] <Riddell> uploaded, thanks for your help Kamion 
[08:04] <zyga> thom: http://pastebin.com/287067
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[08:35] <Kamion> Riddell: kdenetwork | 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu2.1 | hoary-updates | source
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[09:00] <surak> Kamion:
[09:00] <surak> having some trouble with initrd from live
[09:00] <Kamion> hm?
[09:01] <surak> When it's copied to hard drive, it panics the kernel. Replacing it with install initrd fixes this.
[09:01] <Kamion> er ... they're the same initrd
[09:01] <Kamion> that was a design goal
[09:02] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/simple/hoary$ isoinfo -i ubuntu-5.04-install-i386.iso -x /install/initrd.gz | md5sum
[09:02] <Kamion> d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e  -
[09:02] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/simple/hoary$ isoinfo -i ubuntu-5.04-live-i386.iso -x /install/initrd.gz | md5sum
[09:02] <Kamion> d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e  -
[09:02] <surak> Odd.
[09:03] <Kamion> when you say "install initrd", do you mean the one that's on a normal installed system, or the one that's on the install CD?
[09:03] <surak> installed system.
[09:03] <surak> this is the same md5sum I have with the initrd which panics
[09:03] <Kamion> oh, right. You certainly shouldn't use the initrd from the CD on the installed system; it's not at all designed for that.
[09:03] <Kamion> Run mkinitrd after copying /.
[09:04] <Kamion> see the linux-image postinst
[09:04] <surak> ok
[09:04] <Kamion> you might be able to dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-<whatever>
[09:05] <Kamion> (to get it to run mkinitrd for you)
[09:05] <surak> This and a fully functional /dev are which is bothering me today.
[09:06] <Kamion> you may have some complications because the live CD uses some devfs-style paths for historical reasons
[09:08] <surak> yes
[09:08] <Kamion> what problems does it cause for you?
[09:09] <surak> No, is not devfs, but finding a way to correctly create a /dev on installed system.
[09:10] <Kamion> mount udev?
[09:10] <Kamion> or rather start it
[09:10] <surak> udevstart works
[09:10] <Kamion> that's probably overkill though
[09:11] <Kamion> there'll be a /dev in the installed system once you reboot, because udevstart will happen
[09:11] <surak> ?
[09:11] <Kamion> until then, why not 'mount --bind /dev /target/dev'?
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[09:15] <camilotelles> Kamion: can you explain the casper to us?
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[09:18] <Kamion> camilotelles: what do you want to know about it in particular?
[09:18] <Kamion> (I can, but I'm not sure where you want me to start)
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[09:19] <Amaranth> what's up with planet mako?
[09:20] <camilotelles> what is the casper's purpose, this is not clear to me. 
[09:20] <dilinger> 800 channels of all mako, all the time
[09:20] <g14> Casper is the livecd / installer if I'm not mistaken
[09:20] <Kamion> camilotelles: casper is the component that mounts, prepares, and starts up the live filesystem
[09:21] <Kamion> it hooks into the installation system
[09:21] <camilotelles> especially because of this part of the UbuntuExpress Wiki " If the modified filesystem is copied, some of the modifications made to it by casper must be reversed"
[09:22] <Kamion> camilotelles: look in casper/pre.d/ and casper/post.d/ in the casper source package; you'll find a number of hooks which make various changes to the live filesystem before and after pivoting into it
[09:23] <Kamion> like setting up /etc/fstab, adding the 'ubuntu' user, setting up autologin, ...
[09:23] <Kamion> all clearly things that need to be undone when producing a regular installation
[09:24] <Kamion> and there are some things that casper currently removes, where we'll need to change casper to just move them aside instead so that UbuntuExpress can move them back
[09:24] <camilotelles> kamion: beetween the pre.d and post.d of the casper is the copy?
[09:25] <Kamion> no, pre.d -> pivot_root -> post.d
[09:25] <Kamion> no copy
[09:25] <Kamion> see debian/casper-udeb.postinst for the main control flow
[09:25] <camilotelles> thats ok. it's more clear to me now. will take a look.
[09:25] <camilotelles> thanks.
[09:26] <Kamion> you'll probably need to go through all of casper's hook scripts (and note that not all of them are in the casper source package itself - there are some in other installer components, in order to reuse code) and work out a strategy for dealing with each of them
[09:27] <Kamion> we'll be happy to help make those hooks more UE-friendly if necessary
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[09:29] <camilotelles> UE-friendly?
[09:29] <surak> ubuntuexpress
[09:29] <Kamion> what he said
[09:29] <camilotelles> :)
[09:29] <camilotelles> ok. back to work.
[09:31] <camilotelles> Kamion: thanks one more time.
[09:31] <Kamion> no problem, here to help
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=== lamont delunches
[09:45] <lamont> seb128: gnome-libs_1.4.2-20 is ftbfs with current xorg.
[09:46] <seb128> I don't care about old GNOME1 craps :p
[09:46] <lamont> but it's in main.....
[09:46] <lamont> :-)
[09:46] <seb128> ok ok ... :)
[09:46] <seb128> anyway about gnome-menus
[09:46] <Kamion> how come it's in main, anyway? it's blacklisted
[09:46] <seb128> that's due to soname change to universe instead of main
[09:46] <seb128> need elmo to fix that?
[09:47] <lamont> yues
[09:47] <ogra> huh ? gnome1 is in main ? 
[09:47] <lamont> archive placement is elmo
[09:47] <seb128> k
[09:48] <Kamion> hmm
[09:49] <lamont> jbailey: ping
[09:49] <Kamion> openoffice.org2 build-depends unixodbc-dev depends gtkodbcconfig0 depends libgnome32
[09:49] <seb128> lamont: any idea of what's wrong with nautilus-cd-burner?
=== lamont hands kamion a lolly
[09:49] <seb128> hate hate hate bz2 logs
[09:49] <seb128> somebody is working to fix this?
[09:50] <lamont>   libnautilus-extension-dev: Depends: libeel2-dev (>= 2.9.91) but it is not going to be installed
[09:50] <lamont> seb128: on my list of things to do is (1) figure out how to tell apache to tell ffox that it's a gzip/bzip2 file, and therefore get the right answer.
[09:50] <Kamion> no doubt there are other reasons it's in main, but I don't really want to bother tracking them down
[09:50] <lamont> for autounpack
[09:51] <seb128> seriously, instead of clicking on the file now you have to click, use file-roller, select an app and then you get the log
[09:51] <seb128> lamont: I've read the log, any idea of why the buildd refuse to install that?
[09:51] <seb128> works fine here..
[09:52] <lamont> from the eel2 log:
[09:52] <lamont>   libgnome-menu-dev: Depends: libgnome-menu2 (= 2.11.1.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not installable
[09:52] <lamont> so, about gnome-menu
[09:52] <lamont> ...
[09:52] <seb128> grrr
[09:52] <seb128> that's breaking all the GNOME builds
[09:52] <seb128> where is elmo nowadays? :)
[09:53] <lamont> ah, looks like eel2 might maybe be buildable...
[09:53] <Kamion> so we need libgnome-menu2 -> main?
[09:53] <lamont> libgnome-menu2->main
[09:53] <lamont> fix that, kthxbye
[09:54] <lamont> and tell me, so I can kick things
[09:54] <Kamion> moment while I figure out how to run teri
[09:54] <surak> What requires /mnt to exist on live?
[09:55] <Kamion> lamont: done for the next cron.daily
[09:55] <lamont> Kamion: woot!
[09:55] <Kamion> surak: I didn't know anything did
[09:55] <lamont> and that's even soon...
[09:55] <seb128> Kamion: thanks, that's breaking GNOME for 2 days now
[09:56] <surak> Kamion: I'm asking because I don't know why it's still there.
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[09:57] <Kamion> surak: just an empty directory?
=== lamont wonders if there's a reason upload.ubuntu.com is refusing ftp connections
[09:57] <surak> y
[09:57] <lamont> Kamion: not sure which package install creates /mn t
[09:57] <Kamion> surak: it's shipped by base-files - nothing to worry about
[09:58] <lamont> ah. ok
[09:58] <Kamion> if something's mounted on it, that would be stranger
[09:58] <Kamion> it's basically meant for users to mount things on temporarily
[09:58] <surak> I'm using /media for this. Am I wrong?
[09:59] <Kamion> surak: I wouldn't mount things on the top level of /media; stuff gets mounted in subdirectories of /media by pmount
[09:59] <Kamion> anything else that desperately needs promotion to main, before I run away for the evening? preferably binaries whose source packages are already in main, so they're just renames or whatever
[10:01] <Kamion> there aren't many on that part of the list, none look desperately critical
[10:02] <Mithrandir> hmm, I should stuff guifications on desktop.
[10:02] <Mithrandir> that is, the desktopseedproposals
[10:02] <Kamion> seb128: will python-gmenu still being in universe break GNOME builds?
[10:02] <surak> Kamion: pmount is meant for stuff which is not at fstab - guess I'm fine with /media
[10:02] <lamont> Kamion: dunno.
[10:02] <Kamion> surak: pmount and other things
[10:02] <Simira> Treenaks: are you awake?
[10:02] <lamont> Mithrandir: while you're hacking the seed proposals... could you add palo to base for me?
[10:02] <seb128> Kamion: no
[10:02] <Kamion> if you want to use /media, I'd create a subdirectory if I were you
[10:02] <lamont> hppa needs it
[10:03] <Kamion> s/base/minimal/
[10:03] <seb128> Kamion: only libgnome-menu2
[10:03] <lamont> Kamion: doh
[10:03] <lamont> thanks
[10:03] <Mithrandir> lamont: willdo
[10:03] <lamont> ftp upload.ubuntu.com
[10:03] <lamont> ftp: connect: Connection refused
[10:03] <lamont> ftp> 
[10:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: stick palo-installer in installer as well
[10:03] <lamont> am I just hated?
[10:03] <Kamion> lamont: are we moving hppa stuff to main, then?
[10:03] <Mithrandir> lamont: it hates me too, if it makes you happy.
[10:04] <lamont> Kamion: I'm proposing that.
[10:04] <Simira> lamont: we all love you 
=== Simira poures some Ubuntu-love on lamont
[10:04] <lamont> Kamion: is kdelibs4c2 stuck in universe?
[10:04] <lamont> Simira: ew... sticky
[10:04] <lamont> Kamion: the other option for hppa is to teach d-i to build hppa bits using universe as well.....
[10:04] <Kamion> lamont: no, it's been in main for a while
[10:04] <Simira> lamont: it's well meant ;)
[10:05] <Kamion> I mentioned that on -toolchain when doko asked the same
[10:05] <lamont> Simira: sometimes sticky is good... :-)
=== lamont needs to wakeup
[10:05] <Simira> mm...
=== Simira sticks to LoCo-work
[10:05] <Simira> smurfix: are you awake, then?
=== ogra curses C++
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: uhm, where's the installerseed again?
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[10:09] <smurfix> Simira: Yeah
[10:09] <Simira> yay! The LoCo guy!
[10:09] <smurfix> heh
[10:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: same place as all the other seeds
=== doko doesn't see anything why ogra should curse .. *duck*
[10:10] <ogra> ../sigcx/tunnel.h:223: error: no matching function for call to 'pack(SigC::Slot1<bool, const std::string&>&, const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)'
[10:10] <ogra> doko ^^^
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[10:15] <willis> just trying to get a handle of the build process, i see that gnome-menus built on the 18th succesfully but eel2 failed today because it's missing lib-gnome-menu-dev, which as built on the 18th?
[10:18] <Kamion> willis: I only just moved libgnome-menu2 into main twenty minutes ago
[10:18] <Kamion> the lack of that would have stymied libgnome-menu-dev somewhat
[10:19] <willis> ah so if it's building a package from main, it only pulls from main?
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[10:21] <ogra> willis, sure
[10:22] <willis> ok thanks
[10:22] <lamont> seb128: libao_0.8.6-1ubuntu1: cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/lib/ao/plugins-2/libnas.so': No such file or directory
[10:23] <seb128> lamont: k
[10:27] <seb128> doko: what should be done for apps like evince? be updated now?
[10:29] <doko> seb128: looking at the build deps, they can be built and I'll upload them as -buildN, when all C++ libs are built in main.
[10:29] <seb128> doko: k, because I want to try some stuff with the new poppler and evince is removed because of poppler name change
[10:29] <seb128> so just wondering if I can upload a evince rebuild now
[10:30] <Kamion> well, you can't upload anything *right* now ...
[10:30] <seb128> bah
[10:30] <doko> seb128: if you upload it, it will be rejected ;)
[10:31] <Kamion> doko: wasn't what I was thinking of
[10:31] <seb128> if I can contact the ftp first :p
[10:31] <Kamion> poppy's fallen over inexplicably, so upload.ubuntu.com is refusing connections - I can't restart it, it'll have to wait 'til elmo gets back
[10:32] <seb128> doko: any idea on how long it will take before getting uploads accepted again?
[10:32] <seb128> (supposing than upload.u.c is fixed :p)
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[10:33] <doko> waiting, that dbus, libtunepimp are built, don't know, why they are not built, they are accepted. maybe lamont or Kamion do know more?
[10:34] <lamont> if they're accepted, then they should be just waiting for cron.daily.
[10:35] <lamont> but given that no uploads are happening right now........
[10:35] <Kamion> they were accepted a few cron.dailies ago
[10:35] <Kamion> devel/dbus_0.33-0ubuntu3: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [optional:out-of-date] 
[10:35] <Kamion>   Dependencies: kdelibs-dev (>= 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu6)
[10:35] <Kamion> that d-w can be cleared now, can't it?
[10:36] <Kamion> seeing as it's on a nonexistent package
[10:36] <lamont> yeah - is virtual package.
[10:36] <lamont> damn virtual dep-waits
[10:37] <lamont> kicked
[10:37] <lamont> or rather, kicking
[10:38] <doko> yes, I fixed it in ubuntu3
[10:39] <jordi> doko: hey
[10:39] <Kamion> libs/libtunepimp_0.3.0-2ubuntu7: Dep-Wait by buildd+vernadsky [optional:out-of-date] 
[10:39] <Kamion>   Dependencies: libid3tag0-dev (>= 3.8.3-4.1ubuntu1)
[10:40] <Kamion> there are two packages that could be
[10:40] <Kamion> libid3-3.8.3-dev | 3.8.3-4.1ubuntu1 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[10:40] <doko> should be cleared, was a wrong version
[10:40] <Kamion> libid3tag0-dev |  0.15.1b-6 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:40] <Kamion> pick one
[10:41] <doko> jordi, hey, how was the triatlon without training?
[10:41] <jordi> doko: tomorrow. I'm totally worried about it.
[10:42] <lamont> clearing
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[10:43] <doko> lamont: libgnomeuimm2.6 ?
[10:43] <lamont> libs/libgnomeuimm2.6_2.10.0-0ubuntu2: Installed by buildd+terranova [optional:out-of-date] 
[10:44] <jordi> lamont: hey, I'll try to have a look at the wireless card thing next week
[10:44] <jordi> I totally forgot because I haven't used it much yet, I'm not at home that much during nights now
[10:44] <lamont> doko: installed on ppc as well, building on amd64,ia64
[10:45] <lamont> which is to say, waiting for libgconfmm-2.6-1
[10:45] <doko> and unixodbc on powerpc cannot be built due to some inconsistent gnome deps, but I cannot see why.
[10:45] <doko> libgconfmm-2.6-1 is now libgconfmm-2.6-1c2
[10:45] <surak> dumb question: does ubuntu runs on ibm powerpcs?
=== lamont tries giving back on ia64/amd64
[10:46] <jordi> surak: should, afaik
[10:46] <Mithrandir> jordi: you maintain alsa stuff, don't you?
[10:47] <Mithrandir> jordi: do you know the udev dev.d model and do you have any great ideas wrt how to keep the alsa packaging in ubuntu as close to debian's as possible while still going for dev.d scripts?
[10:52] <jordi> Mithrandir: what do you need in dev.d?
=== jordi curses mako as he plays Street Fighter 3
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[10:53] <Mithrandir> jordi: the point is to start alsa when the alsa driver is loaded.
[10:54] <jordi> sddddddddddsdgssaasab
[10:55] <jordi> Mithrandir: is there a bug number for this?
[10:55] <Mithrandir> jordi: there's a spec for it.  UdevRaces.
[10:56] <jordi> oh, I saw it in Sydney spec wall, and though "hmmm, alsa" :)
=== Kamion -> evening, see you
[10:56] <surak> night
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[10:57] <dholbach> night Kamion 
[10:59] <g14> Has anyone considered porting redhat's native eclipse efforts to ubuntu? eclipse is the only thing stopping me from moving several devs here over to ubuntu
[11:00] <Amaranth> redhat pushes java, novell pushes mono, ubuntu pushes python ;)
[11:01] <dholbach> g14: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaRoadmap :-)
[11:02] <g14> Amaranth: I use eclipse for Python development. pydev is the only gpl python ide that I know of supporting autocomplete and it is an eclipse plugin
[11:03] <Amaranth> does it do real autocomplete?
[11:03] <Amaranth> like if i import foo it'll autocomplete foo.<stuff here>?
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[11:04] <g14> Amaranth: For the most part, yes, but autocomplete was just added http://pydev.sourceforge.net/index.html
[11:05] <g14> dholbach: That says eclipse will be in multiverse? Redhat made native eclipse that doesn't require a jvm and using 100% oss software. Why couldn't that be ported to ubuntu?
[11:06] <dholbach> g14: multiverse generally is for stuff with problematic licenses
[11:06] <dholbach> g14: i'm not quite sure, but i recall one of its dependencies to be problematic, right?
[11:06] <dholbach> g14: that lucene stuff maybe?
=== dholbach shrugs
[11:07] <g14> dholbach: I don't think you fully understood me. Redhat modified eclipse so it compiles with gcj into an elf executable as in no license encumbered jvm required
=== ajmitch waves
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[11:08] <dholbach> hey ajmitch 
[11:08] <dholbach> g14: what apart from gcj does it need?
[11:10] <g14> dholbach: They made some changes to the eclipse code, libgcj, and I think it gcj itsself. This might help http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.eclipse.gcj
[11:11] <jordi> Mithrandir: ok
[11:12] <jordi> Mithrandir: first, I guess we'd need a check in the init.d script to not run if udev is found to be running, right?
[11:12] <g14> dholbach: I can yum install the whole eclipse environment in fedora or rhel and it is fully gpl. If someone were to work on that for ubuntu, do you think it would be accepted, to universe?
[11:12] <jordi> and if it's running, alsa would be run from dev.d
[11:12] <Mithrandir> jordi: yeah, I'm considering that.
[11:12] <Mithrandir> jordi: yup, I think that's a sane way to start
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[11:13] <dholbach> g14: if none of the depends or build-depends are critical license-wise - sure!
[11:13] <jordi> Mithrandir: Probably jdthood's input will be very useful here, he's the one who has been in contact with md about our udev troubles
[11:13] <dholbach> g14: you might want to talk to the folks in #ubuntu-java
[11:13] <Mithrandir> jordi: I'll ask him, then
[11:13] <jordi> once we included some udev stuff in our package and we got rid of it after md complained
[11:13] <dholbach> g14: because i'm no expert at all
[11:13] <g14> dholbach: Didn
[11:13] <jordi> dunno if that would include dev.d stuff
[11:14] <g14> dholbach: didn't realize that channel existed. I'd love to switch over my devs to ubuntu. Even if I have to compile and package native eclipse myself. Thanks
[11:14] <jordi> alsa-driver (1.0.6a-8) unstable; urgency=medium
[11:14] <jordi>     - /etc/dev.d/sound/alsa-base.dev
[11:14] <jordi>       + Add.  Runs "alsactl restore" after control
[11:14] <jordi>         device is created  (Closes: #273090)
[11:14] <jordi>     - /etc/udev/permissions.d/alsa-base.permissions
[11:14] <jordi>       + Add.  Sets permissions on ALSA snd devices.
[11:14] <dholbach> g14: anytime, if you can help them, they'll be happy :-)
[11:15] <jordi>     - alsa-base.permissions:
[11:15] <jordi>       + Eliminate at the request of the udev maintainer
[11:15] <jordi> but apparently we were ok with dev.d
[11:16] <g14> dholbach: One of my friends used to be one of the python coding grunts for canonical and he used pydev under eclipse so I'm sure alot of people would be happy
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[11:17] <dholbach> g14: i know lots of people who like it, so i'd love to see it in as well
[11:18] <Mithrandir> jordi: ok, yay, I'll investigate further then.
[11:19] <ogra> \sh, hey, you landed on the planet :)
[11:26] <surak> what gcj-eclipse from redhat depends on?
[11:27] <surak> I mean, in terms of packages.
[11:29] <ogra> Treenaks, around ?
[11:30] <seb128> ogra: when you reply to bugs on a list not made for bugs could you mention than the right place is bugzilla?
[11:30] <seb128> you just encourage people to keep using it for bugs
[11:31] <ogra> seb128, err, i told him thats it a known issue....not a bug...
[11:31] <seb128> what is the difference with an issue and a bug?
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[11:31] <seb128> afaik the list is not for issues neither... :)
[11:32] <seb128> there is a number of bugzilla bugs about this
[11:32] <ogra> seb128, oki, i'll point to bugzilla next time :)
[11:32] <seb128> thanks
[11:35] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11012
[11:36] <seb128> weird
[11:36] <\sh> ogra: hi :) 
[11:36] <\sh> ogra: thx for your artwork and thx to jdub :)
[11:36] <ogra> :)
[11:37] <ogra> seb128, hmm, i'm wondering if he probably ran out of diskspace during the upgrade
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[11:44] <\sh> ogra: u read about my server crash?
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[11:49] <Amaranth> seb128: someone has a similar problem with breezy
[11:49] <seb128> I know, I read the lists
[11:50] <dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
[11:50] <ogra> its a bit weird that he says that dpkg didnt show the files...
[11:50] <ogra> since they are in the package
[11:50] <ogra> night dholbach 
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[11:51] <dholbach> night ogra
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[12:00] <Pupeno> Hello
[12:00] <Pupeno> you are moving towards gcc4 ? awesome.