[12:06] <surak> Kiko! It copied everything correctly, installed grub! huhu! (I'll not tell you now that it panics right after the boot. I'll correct it first)
[12:06] <surak> Kamion: it works!
[12:06] <Kamion> hoorah
[12:07] <kiko> heh
 kiko, you want to marry ?
[12:07] <kiko> LOL
[12:07] <\sh> *gggg*
[12:07] <ogra> *g*
[12:07] <Simira> *g*
[12:07] <surak> ?
[12:08] <\sh> I will marry ogra ,)
[12:08] <Simira> kiko: did you say yes? When's the occasion?
[12:08] <ogra> surak, <kiko> mdz, when will you have time to give me a ring? :)
[12:08] <kiko> please send me the wedding gifts
[12:08] <surak> time==money
[12:08] <ogra> in advance indeed ;)
[12:08] <mdz> kiko: how about now?
[12:08] <surak> money=0
[12:09] <mdz> kiko: do we have some sort of conference capability?
[12:09] <kiko> mdz, hmmm, only if we set it up in advance, there's some sort of dial-in we can use in the UK
[12:10] <kiko> mdz, I was going to suggest either Kamion call surak directly (it's getting late) or you did it, but I wanted to talk to you about other stuff as well.
[12:10] <Kamion> I'm in the community council meeting now, and getting pretty tired
[12:10] <mdz> kiko: probably you and I should have a call, and Kamion and surak can do the same at a later time
[12:10] <ogra> and it doesnt look like a >2h meeting
[12:10] <kiko> Kamion, do you want me to try and get some magic codez for conference calling? the downside is that then surak needs to dial into the UK himself.
[12:11] <ogra> err <2h
[12:11] <Kamion> kiko: if it's only one-to-one, I'm happy to expense a call to Brazil ;)
[12:11] <Kamion> but I'd like to have the facility to do confcalls
[12:11] <kiko> so would I, but it doesn't help much for non-canonicals
[12:12] <mdz> the long-term solution is voip
[12:12] <kiko> Kamion, just do a one-on-one call. 
[12:12] <mdz> that makes the most sense
[12:12] <kiko> yeah, but shtoom is quite borked for me right now.
[12:12] <mdz> and gives us more scheduling freedom
[12:12] <mdz> two 1-1 calls rather than a 4-way
[12:12] <kiko> yeah
[12:12] <kiko> mdz, so ring me whenever.
[12:12] <kiko> mdz, if you wanna call in 2h it is also good, I'll have finished my reviews.
[12:31] <surak> Kamion: ping
[12:32] <Kamion> surak: here, although still in the meeting so only half paying attention
[12:33] <surak> Just let me ask you to grab the latest version of the script at the site I gave you - I'm correcting it now, ok?
[12:33] <surak> When you test it.
[12:35] <Kamion> surak: grabbed, thanks
[12:36] <Kamion> surak: won't work though, the script you create isn't executable
[12:36] <surak> ?
[12:36] <Kamion> +cat <<EOF >$TR/tmp/initrd-create
[12:36] <surak> duh
[12:36] <Kamion> that'll be 644 by default, and there's no chmod
[12:36] <surak> just did it
[12:36] <Kamion> why do you need a helper script anyway? just chroot and run the commands you need to run
[12:37] <Kamion> i.e. chroot /target dpkg-reconfigure ...
[12:37] <surak> aint I allowed to run only one command after chroot?
[12:41] <Kamion> surak: sure, but you can always chroot multiple times
[12:41] <Kamion> neater than helper scripts :)
[12:41] <Kamion> and 'uname -r' doesn't have to be run in the chroot, so we're only talking two commands here
[12:41] <surak> yes
[12:42] <surak> I was afraid that udev would loose its devices inside the chroot after I leave it
[12:43] <trulux> ajmitch: I'm sorry on the flood I did while wget'ing your repo from helium machine
[12:43] <trulux> ajmitch: it's downstream and upstream is kinda huge :D
[12:43] <Kamion> surak: no, why would it?
[12:43] <Kamion> surak: remember the udevstart process is exiting anyway
[12:43] <Kamion> and it couldn't care less whether you chrooted to run it or not :)
[12:44] <surak> my fault
[12:44] <Kamion> no problem, udev is complex
[12:44] <ajmitch> trulux: iptables helped
[12:45] <ajmitch> trulux: the main problem is that you didn't use wget properly :)
[12:45] <ajmitch> and it would have grabbed all the ubuntu packages I've built or am working on..
[12:45] <trulux> ajmitch: it was way *too* late here
[12:45] <trulux> ajmitch: ie. I'm on 4 Red Bulls tonight
[12:45] <Mithrandir> did whoever updated libstlport4.6 also intend to port ooo to gcc4?
[12:45] <trulux> ajmitch: I can hear my hearth
[12:46] <ajmitch> trulux: heh, that means you haven't had enough yet
[12:46] <surak> trulux: 4 red bulls would keep me awake for a week kicking walls over the town
[12:46] <trulux> ajmitch: helps to keep migrains out of the business but harms a bit after you get asleep
[12:46] <ajmitch> once it settles into a quiet, quivering mess.. then you've had enough 
[12:46] <trulux> ajmitch, surak: I'm doing stuff in a rush, no kidding.
[12:47] <trulux> ;P
[12:47] <trulux> pitti: solar (gentoo dev) pointed me at this one (I missed it):  http://www.ida.liu.se/~johwi/research_publications/paper_ndss2003_john_wilander.pdf
[12:48] <trulux> surak: the record is sleeping 3 hours in a week in the past Xmas holidays. I could say that I learnt the basics on kernel hacking that times
[12:49] <trulux> surak: in short, this year I got hardcore
[12:50] <surak> My record is 63 hours working on a congress
[12:50] <JaneW> surak: I would need something strong than red bull!
[12:50] <JaneW> stronger
[12:50] <surak> I was so tired I left to my house on foot - forgot my car over there.
[12:50] <Burgundavia> JaneW, what is the status of edubuntu?
[12:51] <ajmitch> surak: I don't think it would have been safe to drive
[12:51] <surak> ajmitch: indeed
[12:51] <surak> it would be some sort of real-world carmageddon
[12:52] <jsgotangco> id like a redbull now
[12:52] <JaneW> Burgundavia: still pretty mcuh stalled actaully, but hopefully there will be some movement soon.
[12:52] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:53] <jsgotangco> JaneW, sent Jeff (Elkner) and email regarding that, hopefully, he'll reply later
[12:53] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I think I'll pass and opt for bed instead
[12:53] <jsgotangco> JaneW, let me guess, dawn already in cape town?
[12:53] <trulux> JaneW: japanese red bull is stronger than our one
[12:53] <JaneW> jsgotangco: cool thanks, I got some mails from flint earlier, looks like he is russling it up a bit
[12:53] <JaneW> jsgotangco: no it;s almost 1am
[12:53] <trulux> JaneW: though, that's categorized as "Drugs" and you would start chulcking like a chicken on a table and feeling like Alice in Wonderland
[12:54] <jsgotangco> gyahh thats not so bad
[12:54] <jsgotangco> (unlike waking up at 5am)
[12:54] <JaneW> trulux: I have had a thai version, really cheap and in a medicine bottle
[12:54] <surak> wow
[12:54] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I agree, that's worse ;)
[12:54] <JaneW> trulux: I drank Thai redbull when I had my tattoo done ;)
[12:55] <jsgotangco> i didnt see your tatoo
[12:55] <JaneW> jsgotangco: It was visible some of the time... it's on my RHS shoulder/back
[12:55] <JaneW> heh
[12:55] <trulux> JaneW: I buy them for 1.50 in the Chinese shop near my house, and well, I spend *lots* of money on buying energy drinks and the like
[12:56] <jsgotangco> trulux, you should try the original named "Lipovitan"
[12:56] <ajmitch> trulux: yeah, I've been spending a bit on that lately as well
[12:56] <trulux> JaneW: I'm exempt of going to school except for exams, so, I need organize for myself and sleeping is not a reliable option
[12:56] <JaneW> trulux: they are R10 - R20 her in SA, in Thailand I was buying them for Bt10 - 15 which is R2-3 :)))
[12:57] <JaneW> they are cheaper than coke over there
[12:57] <trulux> jsgotangco: well, that path goes to drugs, drugs to more drugs, more drugs to less money, less money to less drugs and that finally gets you in the real Dark Side (tm)
[12:58] <surak> JaneW: what is r10, r20, bt10?
[12:59] <JaneW> R10 is 10 Rand = SA currency. 1GBP ~= R11-R12
[12:59] <surak> thanks
[12:59] <\sh> R8 ~= 1 EUR
[12:59] <JaneW> Bt10 is Thai Baht, wasa around Bt6 - R1 when I went last April
[12:59] <Mithrandir> JaneW: R1 =~ NOK 1, so it's quite convenient for me. :)
[01:00] <JaneW> Mithrandir: cool, how does the spending power compare?
[01:00] <Mithrandir> JaneW: a normal wage is in the range of 250kNOK and up, depending a bit.
[01:00] <JaneW> Mithrandir: how much would a coke cost? A 340ml can here is R4-R5 depending on where you buy it.
[01:01] <Simira> JaneW: the double :p
[01:01] <JaneW> and a McDonalds burger is R17
[01:01] <Mithrandir> cans are more expensive than bottles; a 0.5L bottle costs you about 8 kr, double that if it's a newsstand or cinema or something.
[01:01] <JaneW> I mean happy meal
[01:01] <JaneW> the meals with coke and chips(fries) is R22 or so
[01:01] <\sh> JaneW: but u have better fastfoods then mcdonalds :)
[01:02] <Simira> Mithrandir: didn't you notice that the 0.5 bottles are 11kr now? :p
[01:02] <Mithrandir> Simira: no, I only buy 1.5L bottles. :P
[01:02] <JaneW> Simira: that's quite pricey!
[01:02] <Mithrandir> JaneW: honestly, I don't know, I haven't been in a mcdonalds for years.
[01:02] <JaneW> we get 2l of coke for around R10
[01:03] <Mithrandir> 1.5L is often less than 0.5L, for some reason.  At least if you buy a four- or sixpack.
[01:03] <surak> JaneWit costs the less than half in brazilian supermarkets
[01:03] <elmo> janew: just say NO to NOrway.  they charge you for the air you breathe there
[01:03] <Simira> JaneW: in your country, yes ;p On special offers, we get 1.5L for 13-15 nkr
[01:03] <JaneW> Mithrandir: my kids have been sucked into the McD's toy ploy and so we go about once a month, I make sure it's not more often than that
[01:03] <Simira> elmo: actually, we've got free air and fresh water. Mostly
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Simira: < 10, but yes. :)
[01:04] <Mithrandir> elmo: I'll get you a "free air" card next time you drop by. :-)
[01:04] <Burgundavia> JaneW, if you quick, they will grow out of it, I did
[01:04] <Mithrandir> elmo: so you won't be billed at the airport.
[01:04] <JaneW> Burgundavia: well I watched the 'Supersize Me' movie
[01:05] <JaneW> I like the idea of giving kids a BAD association with mcD's instead of a good one
[01:05] <jsgotangco> mcD isn't so bad if taken moderately
[01:05] <jsgotangco> (i was craving for it during UDU)
[01:05] <lifeless_> avoid intravenous though
[01:05] <JaneW> so like the guys says from when they are born, every time you drive past a Mac Donald's, punch your kid in the face
[01:05] <lifeless_> thats too serious
[01:05] <JaneW> that way they grow up thinking McD's is BAAAAD ;)
[01:06] <surak> Here in brazil, McD is trying to change their image, selling healthy stuff. kinda creepy
[01:06] <JaneW> here they have taken the supersize option off the menu
[01:06] <JaneW> and if you ask for it you can still have it, but now it;s double the price
[01:06] <surak> all their ads are now about how healthy their foods are
[01:06] <JaneW> also our portion sizes are WAY smaller than the ones in the states
[01:07] <lifeless_> JaneW: they never had supersize here
[01:07] <JaneW> from what they showed on the movie
[01:07] <Simira> JaneW: I guess they are here too...
[01:07] <lifeless_> the US is just nuts.
[01:07] <surak> lifeless: where are u?
[01:07] <lifeless_> surak: at home.
[01:07] <JaneW> The super size large here seems to be the small size in the states
[01:07] <surak> lifeless: hum, what country is that?
[01:07] <trulux> JaneW: a good one is civil dis-obeying: get a photo of a pedophile and pick it up to the face of that evil McDonalds red & yellow clown
[01:07] <lifeless_> surak: oh, .au
[01:07] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I don't know about the sizes you get in SA, but the biggest burger you get at mcdonalds here is like 140g, which is really not much.
[01:08] <lifeless_> 140g of fat is huge ;0
[01:08] <JaneW> Mithrandir: yeah I think it may be the quarter pounder which is what 140gm?
[01:08] <\sh> JaneW: what was the name of this burger company? they're selling steak burgers
[01:08] <JaneW> STEERS!
[01:08] <JaneW> *YUM*
[01:08] <HrdwrBoB> the quarter pounder is allegedly a 1/4 pound BEFORE cooking
[01:08] <lifeless_> about the only thing I'll have @ mcds is an occasional chips & a chicken-thai burger (which is <relatively> lowfat)
[01:09] <HrdwrBoB> ... though apparently during cooking it loses 66% of it's weight
[01:09] <Mithrandir> JaneW: quarterburger would be 0.113kg, I think they have something a bit bigger now.
[01:09] <jsgotangco> it becomes rubbery
[01:09] <Mithrandir> lifeless_: their milkshake is nice.
[01:09] <lifeless_> Mithrandir: blech, milk
[01:09] <kierzko> hi
[01:10] <lifeless_> JaneW: where do you hunt the juniors ?
[01:10] <\sh> JaneW: yeah,...steers :) it was wonderful to eat there
[01:10] <opi> guys, help kierzko with a mirroring task :-)
[01:10] <lifeless_> surak: move to france AIUI
[01:10] <kierzko> ;P
[01:10] <kierzko> so... i wish to mirror only i386 part of ubuntu
[01:10] <JaneW> lifeless: oh there's loads running about all over the place... especially in the McD's play area ;)
[01:10] <lifeless_> :0
[01:10] <kierzko> is there any rsync mirror related only to i386 that i can use ?
[01:11] <kierzko> or should i play with exclude switch ?
[01:11] <surak> lifeless: I plan to do it, to learn to sail with the french
[01:11] <JaneW> \sh: Steers is very good as fast food goes. Their slogan is 'real food made real good'
[01:11] <JaneW> anyway I think I said I was going to bed
[01:11] <JaneW> night all
[01:11] <jsgotangco> anything "fast" in food has something sinister for me
[01:11] <jsgotangco> night JaneW sweet dreams
[01:12] <JaneW> thanks
[01:12] <JaneW> jsgotangco: best 'fast' food is Thai roadside cooking :)))
[01:12] <surak> night janew
[01:12] <jsgotangco> yeah street foodrocks
[01:12] <\sh> JaneW: but the best what I ate (real food) was in a suburb of cape town...small restaurant, waiter came from durban, and there was this 500g filet steak
[01:12] <surak> I'm curious about street food in marrakesh
[01:13] <jsgotangco> try the street hawker food in se asia and north asia
[01:13] <surak> just saw something at discovery travel channel
[01:13] <jsgotangco> mostly in thailand, malaysia, singapore and hong kong
[01:18] <trulux> 2 years ago was the last time I went to a fast food site
[01:18] <kierzko> ok. i'l play with exclude switches
[01:19] <trulux> I want my over weight to be the pure, fresh, natural and healthy result of my sick obsession to work out for free here
[01:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (moved from #ubuntu-meeting) is that fallback for Norwegian just crack? I can remove it if that's the right thing to do
[01:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think we might want to consider that, yes.  It looks _weird_ when you have two forms of norwegian, some danish, some swedish and some english on the screen at once.
[01:22] <Mithrandir> uniq: (from #ubuntu-meeting); if you get a norwegian ibook, great.  Please coordinate with Colin on 2539 then.
[01:22] <uniq> I will.
[01:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and I've actually been in situations where that was the case.. it's messy.
[01:23] <Mithrandir> uniq: #ubuntu-no might be of interest.
[01:29] <mjg59> mdz: Hi
[01:29] <mdz> mjg59: hi
[01:30] <mjg59> mdz: You pinged several hours ago
[01:30] <mdz> mjg59: yes, about merging the hp changes into breezy
[01:30] <mjg59> Ah, yes
[01:30] <mdz> mjg59: is that straightforward, or do we need to plan it out?
[01:30] <mjg59> A small amount of that I need to talk to HP about
[01:30] <mjg59> The main issue is what happens with the video button and lid switch when you put it in ACPI mode
[01:30] <mdz> mjg59: I'd like to make it an explicit Breezy goal so that it isn't forgotten
[01:31] <mjg59> I think they make assumptions about the Windows video drivers
[01:31] <mjg59> Sure, that's reasonable
[01:31] <Kamion> isn't it part of LaptopMission?
[01:31] <mdz> arguably, yes
[01:34] <mdz> mjg59: if you don't think there's enough to be done to consider it a separate issue, I'm happy for it to be absorbed by LaptopMission
[01:34] <mdz> mjg59: up to you
[01:35] <mdz> so long as it happens
[01:35] <mdz> if there's discussion/design that needs to happen, it might be nice to have that happen around a separate spec, but if not, cool
[01:48] <mjg59> mdz: I think it's LaptopMission, but I think I need to talk to HP about it
[01:49] <mjg59> mdz: There's not a huge deal of config that's HP specific (one ACPI scipt, one setserial thin that's arguably a kernel bug)
[01:55] <elmo> mjg59: is this the stuff bdale was going on about, or do I need to ping him about that
[02:02] <dholbach> good night everyone
[02:02] <pitti> yeah, good idea, good night!
[02:03] <surak> :-)
[02:06] <trulux> need to go to sleep folks
[02:07] <jsgotangco> night
[02:07] <trulux> today I can't stand up to 6:00am even with 4 red bulls
[02:07] <trulux> migrains are not anymore handy
[02:07] <trulux> good night
[02:09] <surak> night
[02:13] <mkde> jdub, ping
[02:23] <desrt> general question: how's ppc64 support coming along?
[02:26] <desrt> on the Breezy wikipage, there is : Deferred / ppc64 kernel image / MatthiasKlose?, JamesTroup? / Need ppc64 gcc, then linux-image, then testing
[02:26] <desrt> (ie: deferred from hoary)
[02:27] <surak> kiko, there? the script is way much better now. have been removing the portuguese crap
[02:29] <desrt> mako; poke?
[02:29] <jdub> desrt: it's not hugely interesting for us atm
[02:29] <surak> mdz: it's quite ugly, but it works wonderfully on i386, as kamion requested.
[02:29] <Kamion> it's pretty interesting for G5s
[02:29] <jdub> desrt: could be done as a community port in the mean time - that would be a good way to give it momentum
[02:29] <surak> Kamion:
[02:29] <jdub> Kamion: G5s have silicon brains, they cannot love
[02:29] <Kamion> I did say that it should have portability hooks in it
[02:30] <desrt> jdub; i'm not interested in a full port.. just a crosscompiler toolchain and a kernel image
[02:30] <Kamion> that's what most ppc64 people actually want IME
[02:30] <surak> Hey, it works. I'm on gnome of live installed!
[02:30] <desrt> jdub; i've built a cross-compiler here... powerpc -> powerpc64.... maybe i should dpkg it or something?
[02:30] <jdub> desrt: that'd be a really low-sweat way to kickstart it ;)
[02:31] <desrt> (the kernel is being a royal pain tho)
[02:31] <jdub> desrt: cross-compilers have been packaged in the past, i don't see why not
[02:31] <desrt> ok.  i think i've seen a debian guide on how to build dpkgs... i'll try and find that again
[02:32] <desrt> (worth noting: toolchain-src fails here)
[02:32] <mjg59> elmo: Uh. Doesn't ring any bells, I'm afraid
[02:32] <surak> Kamion: finished to shave every pt-br crap I had from my linux and it works. Now I need to make it work with real-world partitioning situations so grub (and after yaboot) will work.
[02:32] <surak> can you tell me more about partman?
[02:32] <Kamion> surak: what we were really looking for in a prototype was something that we can build on towards a finished product - the thing that concerns me is that while I'm sure it works, it really isn't the design we want, so I'm not clear on how we can build on your work
[02:32] <Kamion> without rewriting it from scratch, which kind of misses the point :)
[02:33] <surak> you are correct.
[02:33] <Kamion> surak: not coherently at 1:30am - could you send mail with what you've understood so far, and I'll reply in the morning?
[02:33] <desrt> jdub; k.  i'm gonna install a breezy box to work on this
[02:33] <surak> Guess I'll go home now. It was a tough day.
[02:34] <Kamion> I'm not too bothered about portugueseisms for now as long as we can understand the code :)
[02:34] <surak> Could you take a look at it tomorrow? I will rewrite it from scratch, just wanted to put something working quick to know what caveats are inside live installed.
[02:35] <surak> and of course, to have something which you could actually use.
[02:35] <Kamion> partman is a fairly complicated beast - there's some discussion on the UbuntuExpress wiki about plans for refactoring it, but I'm not getting as much traction on that upstream as I'd hoped
[02:35] <Kamion> but there is documentation here:
[02:35] <Kamion> (hunts for URL)
[02:35] <mako> desrt: hey there
[02:36] <desrt> mako; how's work on ppc64 cross-compiler and kernel image coming?
[02:36] <Kamion> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/devel/partman/partman-doc.sgml?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[02:36] <mako> desrt: you *must* be thinking of someone else
[02:37] <desrt> mako; possibly.  you're not james troup?
[02:37] <Kamion> although I found it easier to understand by experimentation following reading the docs
[02:37] <Kamion> desrt: that's elmo
[02:37] <desrt> ah.
[02:37] <mako> desrt: right
[02:37] <desrt> google lied to me :(
[02:37] <mako> desrt: wait.. what did you google for?
[02:37] <desrt> "James Troup"
[02:38] <desrt> first hit i got was under people.u.o/~mako/
[02:38] <surak> Ok. Well, it worked. Now I can REALLY write something for ubuntuexpress for real.
[02:38] <mako> right
[02:38] <mako> desrt: ok, yeah, that's elmo
[02:38] <desrt> cool.  thanks.
[02:38] <mkde> Kamion, Riddell, so you guys think it will be alright to just rename the current BritishTeam? the page is not going anywhere. we can mail the guy who set it up and involve him
[02:38] <surak> Kamion: Is python allowed?
[02:38] <ogra> surak, wanted :)
[02:39] <Kamion> surak: in the live CD installer, yes
[02:39] <Riddell> mkde: I would use that page
[02:39] <Kamion> surak: not in generic installer code
[02:39] <Riddell> mkde: first event.. lugradio live
[02:39] <ogra> surak, and dbus love would be nice to make it easy for me to attach the frontend there :=)
[02:39] <surak> Ok!
[02:40] <Kamion> that's why the live CD installer needs to be structured in clear layers
[02:40] <mkde> Riddell, awesome
[02:40] <surak> ogra, I'll start to write something clear and useful for us.
[02:40] <ogra> yay :)
[02:40] <Kamion> the bottom layer of which would be existing installer code, which has a restricted set of things it's allowed to depend on
[02:40] <mkde> Riddell, UKTeam or UnitedKingdomTeam
[02:40] <Kamion> a middle layer of glue from that to the live CD
[02:41] <Kamion> and a GUI frontend
[02:41] <Riddell> mkde: first one's shorter
[02:42] <surak> Kamion: didn't get how would us 'glue' d-i with live installer. Mdz talked a standalone app would be desirable
[02:42] <mkde> Riddell, true
[02:42] <ogra> surak, the three layers put together are this app
[02:43] <mkde> Riddell, what did you have in mind for lugradio
[02:43] <Kamion> surak: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress is quite clear that we want to reuse d-i components
[02:43] <Riddell> mkde: well I'm giving a talk, as is Kamion and possibly sabdfl
[02:43] <mkde> Riddell, when is dis?
[02:43] <Kamion> and goes into some detail
[02:43] <Riddell> mkde: but otherwise a list of who's all going would be interesting
[02:44] <Riddell> mkde: next month, lugradio.org/live
[02:44] <mkde> will check it
[02:44] <mkde> maybe we can give it a bit of publicity
[02:44] <Riddell> it's already been on slashdot, what more publicity do you need :)
[02:44] <surak> ok. Thanks for your patience, Kamion. Thanks Ogra. Now I do need some rest.
[02:44] <mkde> fair enough
[02:45] <mkde> glamorous wolverhampton
[02:45] <ogra> me too, 2:43 am ....
[02:45] <surak> night people.
[02:45] <ogra> night surak 
[02:50] <mkde> ok Riddell Kamion https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UKTeam
[02:52] <Kamion> cool
[02:53] <mkde> now, i propose not to have a leader
[02:53] <mkde> there is a guy as leader in LocoTeamList, we should definitely get him involved too
[02:54] <mkde> but perhaps a leader as such would not be necessary
[02:56] <Riddell> mkde: question is does UKTeam include Isle of Man :)
[02:56] <mkde> good question
[02:56] <mkde> if so we 0wn Ubuntu
[02:57] <mkde> i'm gonna write to JohnLevin
[02:57] <Riddell> good idea
[02:57] <mkde> shall we amend the UK entry in LocoTeamList to say "no leader"?
[02:58] <Riddell> mkde: ok
[02:59] <mkde> if Kamion subscribes to the list then contact with the CC shouldn't be a problem...
[03:08] <mkde> ok bed
[03:08] <mkde> night all
[03:08] <mkde> Riddell, ping me @ mdke when the mailing list is up and i'll subscribe
[04:22] <jdub> mdz: around?
[06:31] <dilinger> daniels: ping
[06:32] <daniels> pong
[06:32] <fabbione> hey dilinger 
[06:32] <dilinger> hey
[06:32] <dilinger> daniels: do you know if it's possible to override the xorg driver used on the live cd?
[06:32] <\sh> morning
[06:32] <dilinger> the ati driver does some really trippy things to the screen
[06:33] <fabbione> dilinger: and switch to what?
[06:33] <fabbione> vesa?
[06:33] <daniels> dilinger: even better, you could file me a full bug report and get it fixed :)
[06:33] <dilinger> vesa works, but that's after editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[06:33] <dilinger> daniels: yea, that'll be done soon, i assume
[06:33] <daniels> dilinger: if you have a custom /etc/X11/xorg.conf in place and write XORG_CONFIG=custom to /etc/default/xorg so it can get .'ed, then you're safe, but you can't do that automatically without re-mastering the CD
[06:34] <daniels> maybe the X server just assumes it has all the keycaps available and fails because it's missing about half of them?
[06:35] <dilinger> hrm
[06:35] <dilinger> well, hopefully this won't happen on other machines
[06:35] <dieman> heh
[06:36] <dilinger> daniels: do you think this sort of problem will show up in the install cd?
[06:36] <dilinger> i don't see why it wouldn't, but..
[06:39] <daniels> dilinger: if the driver's broken on the install cd, then it'll be broken on the live cd
[06:39] <daniels> and, in this case, vice-versa
[06:39] <dilinger> ok
[06:46] <AndyFitz> ping
[06:48] <AndyFitz> JOIN #ubuntu
[06:49] <\sh> whatsup
[06:49] <daniels> OK
[06:53] <jdub> daniels: is xorg -20 sane?
[06:53] <jdub> daniels: ...ish?
[06:54] <fabbione> jdub: 2 words in the same sentence that clash
[06:54] <fabbione> xorg and sane
[06:54] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:55] <daniels> jdub: in three words: 'seems to work'
[06:55] <daniels> jdub: (once you create the symlink for xkb)
[06:56] <jdub> ahr
[06:56] <jdub> thanks
[06:56] <\sh> the deps are b0rked in any way..:(
[06:57] <daniels> jdub: the key being sudo ln -s /etc/X11/xkb /usr/lib/X11/xkb
[06:57] <daniels> after that, it all works fine
[07:00] <Lathiat> daniels: doesnt help mine unfortunately
[07:00] <daniels> Lathiat: seems to work fine here
[07:00] <daniels> the difference between no keysyms at all, and prefectly-working keysyms
[07:00] <daniels> i blame nvidia
[07:00] <daniels> and/or seb128
[07:00] <dieman> heh
[07:00] <Lathiat> ive gone back to hoary for the meantime
[07:00] <Lathiat> hard to do work without keybd shortcuts
[07:01] <dieman> btw, if im not a member and am working on a bug, what should i do, just comment it that im working on it and then add a patch to the bug later?
[07:01] <daniels> dieman: sure
[07:01] <daniels> patches always appreciated :)
[07:01] <dieman> and then afterwards harrass the list?
[07:01] <dieman> or just wait for it to hit someones queue? :)
[07:10] <daniels> dieman: someone will find it
[07:10] <crimsun_> can anyone log in to bugzilla.u.c?
[07:11] <dieman> daniels: ok
[07:11] <crimsun_> nm, false alarm
[08:05] <fabbione> guys who has older titaniom powerbooks?
[08:05] <fabbione> titanium even
[08:08] <daniels> fabbione: kamion?
[08:08] <fabbione> awake :)
[08:16] <jsgotangco> morning JaneW
[08:20] <JaneW> mornign jsgotangco 
[08:21] <JaneW> btw do spend 24-hours a day on-line? ;)
[08:21] <jsgotangco> heh no :-) its only 2PM
[08:21] <jsgotangco> when we talkedit was 6am
[08:22] <\sh> JaneW: kids in school?
[08:26] <dieman> heh
[08:27] <dieman> its like 1:30 am here.
[08:27] <dieman> i should go to bed
[08:27] <JaneW> jsgotangco, no way... me works out how much sleep she had then.... er not that much!
[08:27] <JaneW> \sh: yes, pre-school (nursery school)
[08:28] <jsgotangco> pre-school is so expensive
[08:28] <jsgotangco> (in my place anyway)
[08:28] <dieman> im not looking forward to that.
[08:28] <jsgotangco> well, i'm already a parent heh
[08:29] <\sh> JaneW: oh young ones :) how old?
[08:30] <JaneW> jsgotangco: schooling is not cheap here either, but if I didn't send them I wouldn't be able to work...
[08:30] <JaneW> also they love going
[08:30] <JaneW> the oldest is in Grade 0 now = starts official school next year
[08:31] <JaneW> \sh: 3 and 5
[08:31] <JaneW> jsgotangco: cool, age/s? gender?
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i thought you were single then when i saw you in sydney
[08:31] <jsgotangco> JaneW, 3y4mos. girl
[08:31] <JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks - I think
[08:32] <JaneW> jsgotangco: because I was acting single and 'easy', or because I look so young!?
[08:32] <JaneW> joking
[08:32] <JaneW> you don;t have to answer ;)
[08:32] <jsgotangco> hah
[08:32] <jsgotangco> i could have tried...
[08:33] <JaneW> lol
[08:34] <\sh> my little one is 11 :)
[08:34] <jsgotangco> oh that is already manageable (i think?)
[08:35] <\sh> jsgotangco: most of the time...but puperty is ringing at the door ;)
[08:35] <jsgotangco> hah oh no
[08:35] <\sh> or knocking ;)
[08:35] <JaneW> \sh: wow!
[08:36] <JaneW> \sh: I guess it depends if yu ave a doorbell or not...
[08:38] <jsgotangco> JaneW, are you in an office or just at home telecommuting?
[08:39] <\sh> JaneW: most of the time the doorbell is switched on :)
[08:39] <\sh> JaneW: but have a look by yourself ;) see query
[08:41] <pitti> Morning
[08:41] <JaneW> jsgotangco: do half and half, I telecommute from home some days, and go into the office others. I am home today, partly due to the late night meetings last night, and because I am doing an airport run at lunch time
[08:41] <jsgotangco> wow
[08:44] <JaneW> it's nice aving the option
[08:44] <JaneW> also I find I can often get more done at home, it;s quieter and the kitche is closer, so getting coffee doesn't involve a walk and chat with the person you bump into...
[08:45] <jsgotangco> yeah i'd like to do that sometime too
[08:45] <JaneW> I have noticed that I speed type with a cockney accent!
[08:48] <jsgotangco> office work is becoming boring for me lately
[08:48] <jsgotangco> (actually, im in an oracle meeting atm)
[08:51] <Treenaks> dieman: lucky you
[08:51] <dieman> heh
[08:51] <dieman> we have oracle in places, though
[08:51] <dieman> but its all research based stuff, our actual production stuff for a few web-based apps is all mysql.
[08:52] <jsgotangco> oh its the reverse in our side
[08:52] <Treenaks> dieman: we use it as a very expensive version of mysql... we don't use ANY of the cool features
[08:52] <dieman> heh
[08:52] <jsgotangco> we just use mysql as proof of concept
[08:52] <jsgotangco> (we actually use oracle applciations not just their dbase
[08:56] <dieman> well, research, in the sense of academic research. im at a univ
[08:56] <dieman> until recently the license prevented us from using it in infrastructure
[08:56] <dieman> but they bought a site license because of setting up oracle calendar software, etc.
[08:56] <dieman> was cheaper to just buy a license for everything, i guess.
[08:56] <dieman> heh
[08:56] <dieman> at work the central people have stuff like the calendaring software, lucent qip, and peoplesoft using oracle.
[08:56] <dieman> we're all crossing fingers that lucent qip is going to go away someday.
[10:20] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[11:03] <KaiL> hmm, who broght that new "delete" icon to my kontact? ;)
[11:03] <KaiL> ah, kdelibs-data 3.4.1 :)
[11:16] <Riddell> KaiL: what's the new icon?
[11:16] <KaiL> the trashbin for "delete" looks a bit nicer
[11:27] <maswan> elmo: this is getting more and more "interesting", we get a ETIMEDOUT on a tcp read, not an rsync timeout. workign to figure out why.
[11:33] <seb128> elmo: galeon/experimental sync please
[11:34] <seb128> elmo: any reason why gtk-smooth-engine is not autosynced?
[11:35] <opi> morning
[11:35] <\sh> hey opi
[11:35] <xuzo> hi
[11:46] <Kamion_> lamont: try 'svn cat svn://svn.debian.org/d-i/trunk/packages/rootskel/src/lib/debian-installer-startup.d/Makefile' - I think that's as complex an example as one might normally need
[11:46] <Kamion_> you might not need the amd64 handling there
[11:46] <doko> seb128: any reason that gnome still uses libpng-10-dev, and not libpng-12-dev?
[11:48] <seb128> what do you call "gnome" ?
[11:49] <thom> pitti: see dbaron's email? :(
[11:52] <pitti> thom: yes :-/
[11:52] <pitti> thom: the new ffox point releases also contain new features, right?
[11:52] <pitti> thom: so it would be a lie to state that warty has 1.0.4...
[11:52] <thom> it includes a fix for a regression that we missed
[11:53] <thom> and 1.0.3 also has unrelated features
[11:53] <thom> so a total lie for warty and a smaller lie for hoary
[11:59] <Simira> hm, who are the people working with LiveCD?
[11:59] <ajmitch> hi pitti, thom 
[11:59] <Treenaks> Simira: what's the question?
[12:00] <ajmitch> pitti: any idea of what hardened/selinux stuff has a chance of being approved for main?
[12:01] <pitti> ajmitch: the updated selinux packages should go in in any case (mdz still has to approve, though)
[12:01] <pitti> ajmitch: today I hope to get the vsecurity modules finished with trulux
[12:01] <Simira> Treenaks: not a question, just a statement. It sounded very cool.
[12:01] <ajmitch> pitti: yep, been working on those, as you've possibly seen
[12:01] <pitti> ajmitch: at least some of them should be included as well
[12:01] <Treenaks> Simira: hm, good point :)
[12:02] <ajmitch> pitti: hopefully we can get some selinux policy & tools in as well
[12:02] <pitti> ajmitch: at least in universe
[12:02] <ajmitch> pitti: I'm hoping for main at this point :)
[12:10] <jdub> morning tseng 
[12:10] <tseng> hi jdub ;)
[12:11] <Treenaks> tseng: ET4000? :)
[12:11] <ogra> heh... 
[12:13] <Treenaks> ogra: ?
[12:13] <ogra> Treenaks, et4000
[12:14] <Treenaks> ogra: I think I'm missing some context here
 tseng: ET4000? :)
[12:15] <tseng> i thought I was dense
[12:15] <tseng> jdub: did you see our livecd?
[12:15] <jdub> yibbidayabbida--NO!
[12:15] <tseng> jdub: mono-live.com
[12:15] <ogra> Treenaks, i once had such a card... so my brain silently adds et4000 to the name
[12:16] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah, me too :) tseng labs :)
[12:16] <ogra> yep
[12:16] <jdub> tseng: the bittorrent host:port part only has the port ;)
[12:16] <tseng> hm
[12:17] <tseng> lol
[12:17] <tseng> i have the .torrent
[12:17] <jdub> tseng: very nice tho - they're going to pimp this hard? :)
[12:17] <tseng> wait no i dont, i did open in gnome-bt
[12:17] <jdub> tseng: dude, mail sounder@ about it :)
[12:17] <tseng> ok
[12:18] <tseng> i dont think im subscribed either
[12:18] <tseng> sec
[12:18] <maswan> elmo: do you guys have a firewall or something else suspicious in the path?
[12:19] <tseng> are firewalls suspicious?
[12:19] <maswan> yes.
[12:19] <maswan> elmo: because the only reason for this we have found so far is that something eats the tcp keepalive stuff and that timesout after 10 minutes.
[12:19] <maswan> firewalls typically break stuff
[12:20] <maswan> or run around saying "the sky is falling! the sky is falling!" at stuff like pmtu discovery
[12:21] <mvo> tseng: re mono, is muine broken right now? 
[12:21] <tseng> mvo: dbus is broken right now
[12:21] <tseng> mvo: so, alot of other things by extension
[12:22] <tseng> dbus-mono that is
[12:23] <mvo> tseng: I get a error that the "gtk-sharp" assembly (version 2.0.0.0) could not be found in the global assembly cache
[12:24] <Treenaks> wtf does muine use dbus for?
[12:24] <tseng> yes there are missing dependencies from a slightly bad mono upload
[12:24] <tseng> Treenaks: to talk to plugins
[12:24] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: smoking crack.
[12:24] <ajmitch> Treenaks: dbus is the way of the future, you know
[12:24] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: no, that's the mono part
[12:24] <maswan> tseng: or breaking large tcp windows for that matter, a hungarian debian mirror ran into that
[12:24] <tseng> i cant fix it until mono goes to main and we build libdbus-cil again
[12:24] <tseng> it would just FTBFS
[12:25] <Treenaks> ajmitch: yes, dbus and xml, the solution to ALL future problems!
[12:25] <ajmitch> Treenaks: xml is old now
[12:25] <tseng> Treenaks: spice up your life with d-bus!
[12:27] <ogra> doko, ping
[12:27] <mvo> tseng: a missing dep? on gtk-sharp2 maybe? (/me tries that)
[12:27] <ajmitch> sleep time, night all
[12:27] <tseng> mvo: its missing alot of deps
[12:28] <tseng> i can send you a proper list from my local package
[12:28] <mvo> tseng: ok. gtk-sharp2 did the trick for me 
[12:28] <tseng> rock on then
[12:28] <mvo> tseng: thanks, no need anymore :)
[12:28] <tseng> great :)
[12:29] <mvo> let's see how it deals with my mp3s ... rhymbox usually dies in the middle of scanning it
[12:29] <ogra> mvo, there was one mono upload that couldnt resolve dependencys due to a broken binary in the package, the best workaround is to just install the build deps (even for other apps)
[12:29] <tseng> muine plays 50gb of flac for me
[12:29] <mvo> the build-deps? *uuuuuuu* 
[12:30] <tseng> cant speak for number of files
[12:30] <tseng> ogra: non-dbus stuff is already fixed
[12:30] <doko> seb128: gnome-libs
[12:30] <ogra> mvo, they are nearly identical to the deps ;)
[12:30] <doko> ogra: pong
[12:30] <ogra> tseng, yay
[12:30] <seb128> doko: that's an old GNOME1 stuff, not sure .. is that an issue?
[12:31] <mvo> tseng: yeah! still scanning but looks great so far :) 
[12:31] <ogra> doko, vtk is on the transition list, any reason that python-vtk and vtk-tcl are listed besides libvtk4 ?
[12:32] <ogra> seb128, do we need gnome-libs for anything ?
[12:32] <doko> seb128:, ogra: yes, for all the stuff that wasn't built in main for powerpc ...
[12:32] <Kamion> ogra: yes, we need gnome-libs.
[12:32] <Kamion> go look at germinate rdepends output
[12:35] <seb128> doko: and is png-10 an issue?
[12:35] <doko> it was, because it was miscompiled on powerpc, see the gnome-libs build logs, which failed
[12:38] <seb128> k
[12:40] <fabbione> infinity, thom: mind to look at #11122
[12:40] <thom> holy heck; redhat have 800 lines of patches to dhclient's linux script
[12:41] <fabbione> i find difficult to believe that xml errors are coming from the kernel
[12:41] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you mean there's no XML parser in the kernel!?
[12:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ehehe.. no
[12:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are you running hoary on your amd64?
[12:42] <fabbione> or did you switch to breezy?
[12:42] <Mithrandir> fabbione: breezy.
[12:42] <thom> well, checking a log is unlikely to be firefox related
[12:42] <Kamion> I reassigned to kernel because of the CPU thrashing
[12:42] <Mithrandir> fabbione: except my university workstation, which is hoary.
[12:42] <thom> (one hopes, anyway)
[12:42] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. don't worry :)
[12:42] <Mithrandir> thom: opening /var/log/foo in ff?
[12:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok... i was hoping you could shed some light to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=186041
[12:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i have his initrd here
[12:43] <thom> Mithrandir: puke
[12:44] <Mithrandir> fabbione: does his initrd have a /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 ?  I think he might have rm-ed /lib64
[12:44] <Mithrandir> in his normal system.
[12:44] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's there
[12:45] <fabbione> 90288 Kb
[12:45] <fabbione> 879e394f510ae8c3bfe3f24052f7dd74  ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
[12:45] <Mithrandir> 90MB?
[12:45] <fabbione> meh sorry
[12:45] <fabbione> Bytes
[12:45] <fabbione> ld-linux-x86-64.so.2: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
[12:46] <Mithrandir> mhm
[12:46] <Mithrandir> can you get the initrd to me and I'll look at it?
[12:47] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sure
[12:52] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's on http://p.u.c/~fabbione/
[12:53] <ogra> doko, vtk ?
[12:54] <doko> ogra: ?
[12:54] <ogra> doko, vtk is on the transition list, any reason that python-vtk and vtk-tcl are listed besides libvtk4 ?
[12:55] <doko> ogra: maybe not, but why do they have a shlibs file?
[12:55] <ogra> hmm
[12:56] <Mithrandir> fabbione: the search path for the linker doesn't include lib64 and lib64 isn't a symlink to lib..
[12:56] <Mithrandir> hmm, does cramfs support symlinks?
[12:56] <Mithrandir> yeah, has to, since there's some in dev.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> jbailey: around?
[12:56] <Mithrandir> fabbione: does he have a way to get a new initrd onto the system?
[12:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes
[12:57] <fabbione> he is MistaED on #ubuntu
[12:57] <fabbione> he is testing an older kernel just to be 100% sure that the kernel is not at fault (even if i know the kernel is ok)
[01:01] <bob2> tseng: do you know the author of mojoportal?
[01:01] <bob2> or does anyone? the license is broken.
[01:03] <jdub> eh, what's that pythonic bug reporting thingy?
[01:03] <bob2> reportbug?
[01:03] <jdub> nono, the bug tracker
[01:04] <ogra> RT ?
[01:04] <jdub> that's very much perl
[01:05] <ogra> err roundup i meant
[01:05] <jdub> that's the one - thakns :)
[01:05] <Mithrandir> fabbione: when he gets around again, could you do: MistaED: please try the initrd at http://err.no/tmp/initrd-test.img .
[01:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sure
[01:06] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm trying to write my thesis and fairly stressed out, so I try not to busywait on stuff like IRC: :P
[01:06] <Mithrandir> fabbione: thanks.
[01:06] <Mithrandir> give me a highlight and I'll see it.
[01:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: of course i understand.. thanks a lot for your help
[01:13] <tseng> bob2: no, i dont
[01:13] <bob2> ok
[01:13] <tseng> i could ask jhill
[01:13] <tseng> he seems to be into that stuff
[01:13] <bob2> ah
[01:13] <bob2> that would be good, if yo ucould
[01:14] <tseng> sure
[01:14] <tseng> time for work, cya.
[01:16] <bob2> adios
[01:21] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I have _NO_ clue how that happened.  At all.  It simply should not, in any way whatsoever, be possible.
[01:21] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we need to talk with jb about it
[01:22] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what change did you do to the initrd?
[01:22] <fabbione> so i can explain to him if you are not around
[01:22] <Mithrandir> fabbione: mv /lib64/* lib ; rmdir lib64 ; ln -s lib lib64
[01:22] <fabbione> ah
[01:22] <fabbione> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK john
[01:22] <Mithrandir> fabbione: but it should have blown up spectacularly for everybody..
[01:23] <fabbione> houston this is apollo13...
[01:23] <fabbione> exactly
[01:23] <trulux> heya fellows
[01:23] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[01:23] <trulux> pitti: going to fix that vsec thing
[01:23] <pitti> fix -> port to 2.6.12?
[01:23] <trulux> I forgot to buy the red cow crack today
[01:23] <trulux> yup
[01:23] <fabbione> 12rc5 please guys
[01:23] <fabbione> packages will be probably up in the archive today
[01:23] <fabbione> i am doing the usual build orgy
[01:24] <trulux> fabbione: won't change API, so, no real diff to the work I need to do for rc4
[01:24] <pitti> fabbione: sure, but that shouldn't make much of a difference
[01:24] <pitti> fabbione: the final test will of course be with rc5
[01:24] <fabbione> whatever :)
[01:24] <trulux> one sec, door knocking
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti, trulux: my orig.tar.gz for rc5 is on people.u.c/~fabbione
[01:25] <fabbione> you can use the diff and dsc to unpack
[01:25] <fabbione> but it won't build
[01:25] <fabbione> i have other extra changes locally to fix that :)
[01:25] <pitti> fabbione: no worries, the orig.tar.gz is enough
[01:25] <trulux> fabbione: I use stack'ed patches so, I use vanilla sources. API, at the end, is the same
[01:25] <trulux> pitti: this dpath shit can be an asspain
[01:26] <trulux> pitti: I can't make it fully SMP safe
[01:26] <trulux> lemme work out the crack, though
[01:39] <Burgundavia> daniels, another bug report via forums for you
[01:39] <bob2> someone who reads the forums needs to train them to file bugs
[01:40] <Burgundavia> I working on that bob2 
[01:40] <bob2> hehe :)
[01:40] <Burgundavia> everytime I see a bug I tell them where to file it
[01:40] <Burgundavia> I even had one success that I know of
[01:42] <daniels> Burgundavia: ?
[01:43] <Burgundavia> daniels, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=36909
[01:44] <daniels> Burgundavia: that's vague enough to be useless
[01:44] <Burgundavia> daniels, in terms of bug reports, should I be telling this "poor" souls that they should be filing bug reports, or just tell them to ride it out? What is more useful for you?
[01:49] <daniels> Burgundavia: depends on the bug -- a lot of them are the same couple of bugs
[01:49] <Burgundavia> daniels, ok, I will try and send the ones that don't look the same on
[01:50] <daniels> thanks
[01:51] <ogra> mvo, libapt-pkg-perl is not installable ?
[01:52] <mvo> ogra: ok, I'll deal with it
[01:52] <mvo> ogra: libdebtags is broken too, it has c++ issues
[01:53] <ogra> ah, k... i was suspecting that
[01:53] <Treenaks> libsmpeg too (which breaks libsdl-audio, which breaks dosbox)
[02:10] <pitti> any gtk+ hacker here who touched a combo box before? (mvo? seb128?)
[02:11] <pitti> is it possible to create a gtk_combo_box_new_text() with glade?
[02:11] <bob2> hm, there's no console browser in the base system
[02:12] <bob2> that seems kidna silly
[02:12] <pitti> w3m?
[02:12] <bob2> hm, I uninstalled ubuntu-base somehow.  thanks :)
[02:13] <Treenaks> bob2: there's telnet, that's all you need!
[02:14] <ogra> Treenaks, hey, libsdl-sound1.2 is in universe and only needs a rebuild, youre a MOTU ;)
[02:14] <Treenaks> ogra: meh
[02:14] <Treenaks> ogra: downloading source
[02:15] <ogra> :)
[02:15] <mvo> pitti: yes
[02:15] <HrdwrBoB> bob2: it is annoying
[02:17] <hunger> OOo crashes for me as soon as I try to open any menu. Anyone seeing the same in breezy?
[02:18] <Treenaks> testing build :)
[02:18] <ogra> :)
[02:18] <Treenaks> oh wait
[02:18] <Treenaks> pbuilder update'ing
[02:18] <ogra> heh
[02:20] <Burgundavia> mvo, should I bother asking on -devel about other opinions regarding the repo dialog redesign?
[02:21] <Treenaks> mpt?
[02:21] <Treenaks> [this IS devel btw] 
[02:21] <Burgundavia> -devel the mailing list
[02:22] <Treenaks> ah, ok :)
[02:22] <mvo> Burgundavia: the bits that michiel pointed out? or did you send something new?
[02:22] <Burgundavia> mvo, just asking for general opinions
[02:22] <Burgundavia> as we have 2 sort of competeing visions
[02:22] <mvo> Burgundavia: you don't like michiels ideas?
[02:23] <Burgundavia> mvo, not really
[02:23] <Burgundavia> mvo, the other issue we have is that we hae the same dialog being used in 2 very different places
[02:23] <Burgundavia> synaptic and the u-manager
[02:23] <Burgundavia> one has menus, and the other doesn't
[02:24] <Burgundavia> therefor, for synaptic, I would move auth, etc. to menu items
[02:24] <Burgundavia> but that doesn't work for the u-manger
[02:25] <bob2> elmo: the readahead dir in the pool seems to be gone, but the Packages files say it should be there.
[02:28] <kiko> yawn
[02:28] <pitti> hi kiko, tough night?
[02:29] <kiko> just too rainy here
[02:29] <kiko> hasn't rained for months, and now this.
[02:30] <pitti> thom: don't worry, when GettingRidOfTheDesktop is implemented, maintaining lynx will be easier
[02:31] <Burgundavia> security will also be much easier with OneButtonKeyboard
[02:32] <mvo> Burgundavia: what would be you alternative idea?
[02:32] <thom> pitti: grin
[02:32] <Burgundavia> mvo, that is the stumbler, I am trying to reconsile these 2 competing ideas
[02:33] <Burgundavia> mvo, I haven't had an epiphany yet
[02:34] <daniels> thom: make the pain stop kthx
[02:34] <daniels> S  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[02:34] <daniels>  9070 daniels   16   0  550m 462m 2420 S 12.2 46.1  65:15.61 firefox-bin
[02:34] <jdub> Burgundavia: what's wrong with michiel's design?
[02:36] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am not certain that MDI is the best way, but as I mentioned, this issue with two very different apps sharing the same dialog
[02:37] <jdub> for the update manager prefs dialogue? that is *not* MDI, it's just tabs (which is a far saner way to aggregate related preferences than entirely new windows)
[02:38] <dieman> ugh
[02:38] <dieman> MDI.
[02:38] <Burgundavia> jdub, have you read the first comment here: http://blogs.gnome.org/nb.cgi/view/michiels/2005/05/10/0
[02:39] <Treenaks> pitti: current cryptsetup doesn't seem to have LUKS stuff in it :(
[02:39] <pitti> it has!?
[02:39] <lamont> Kamion: bash: svn: command not found
[02:40] <lamont> hrm.. i can fix that. :-)(
[02:40] <dieman> lamont: morning.
[02:40] <lamont> morning dieman 
[02:40] <pitti> Treenaks: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/c/cryptsetup/cryptsetup_1.0-0ubuntu1/changelog
[02:40] <Kamion> lamont: hm what where?
[02:40] <lamont> on my machine. 
[02:40] <dieman> lamont: im going to try and find time to get patches for all your ftbfs bugs over the next few days because they are all so fun.
[02:41] <lamont> dieman: WOOT!
[02:41] <dieman> like, i learned so much about autotools last night i dont think i want to know why people use it. :)
[02:41] <pitti> Treenaks: argh, it didn't build
[02:41] <Treenaks> pitti: ah.. that explains it
[02:41] <dieman> lamont: or at least mess around with ftbfs bugs, etc.
[02:42] <lamont> dieman: autotools are evil
[02:42] <jbailey> lamont: So I'm a freak for liking those too? =)
[02:42] <pitti> Treenaks: my bad, will fix ASAP
[02:42] <jdub> Burgundavia: the reference to MDI is just wrong
[02:42] <dieman> ugh. sendmail.
[02:43] <thom> jbailey: i think that's pretty well established regardless :P
[02:43] <jdub> Burgundavia: the other points raised are about simplification, not the use of tabs
[02:43] <dieman> the old OOo/staroffice interface was MDI, that was evil.
[02:44] <jdub> Burgundavia: the sources and authentication pages are reasonable
[02:44] <jdub> Burgundavia: the settings page is pretty reasonable to (though many of them could be ditched if we didn't want to expose those settings)
[02:44] <jdub> mvo: i think the channel stuff in FindingPackages will have some impact on this
[02:45] <Burgundavia> jdub, actually, I just realized that he has a new 2 tab one: http://blogs.gnome.org/nb.cgi/view/michiels/2005/05/12/0
[02:45] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am composing my how to merge our ideas together comment on the bug
[02:45] <pitti> Treenaks: uploaded cryptsetup_1.0-0ubuntu2, should be fixed
[02:45] <Treenaks> pitti: cool
[02:46] <pitti> Treenaks: forgot a build dependency
[02:46] <jdub> Burgundavia: right, so that's just simplification, not outright redesign
[02:46] <Burgundavia> jdub, I just added my comment to the bug
[02:46] <Burgundavia> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10453
[02:47] <Kamion> lamont: oh :)
[02:48] <Kamion> lamont: DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS := $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH_OS 2>/dev/null || dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM)
[02:48] <Kamion> lamont: that's one variant of the short answer
[02:48] <lamont> Kamion: thanks
[02:48] <Kamion> lamont: (and then you test 'ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS),linux)')
[02:49] <jdub> commented
[02:49] <Burgundavia> jdub, cool, we will have a rockin dialog soon
[02:50] <tepsipakki> why was readahead removed from main? breaks my hoary-installs
[02:51] <seb128> are xine bugs supported 
[02:51] <seb128> or that's universe crap?
[02:51] <Burgundavia> jdub, did you see my mockup in comment #5? it isn't very hig happy, but I split the official and non-official
[02:51] <seb128> libxine I mean
[02:51] <Burgundavia> jdub, which allows for scaling
[02:52] <Burgundavia> jdub, and the components would be defined, not hardcoded
[02:52] <Burgundavia> jdub, thus is we add alllifeverse, it would simply be tacked on the end of multiverse
[02:53] <jdub> Burgundavia: it may allow for scaling, but it doesn't actually scale
[02:53] <Burgundavia> jdub, say again, I am not following you
[02:54] <Kamion> elmo: ^-- readahead, shouldn't there have been a symlink left in main for hoary?
[02:55] <jdub> Burgundavia: you've provided a way of showing other repositories, but i do not agree that it will scale usefully (particularly considering FindingPackages requirements)
[02:56] <Burgundavia> jdub, so in finding packages we see people adding lots of little repos?
[02:57] <jdub> yes
[02:57] <jdub> in some use cases
[02:57] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:57] <jdub> it would be best to come back to this after further work on FindingPackages
[02:57] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:57] <Burgundavia> the currently dialog will not deal with that either, I don't think
[02:58] <jdub> mvo: when are you going to be in stuttgart?
[02:58] <Burgundavia> you will just have a mess
[02:58] <mvo> jdub: saturday to monday
[02:58] <jdub> cool
[02:58] <jdub> i'll be in on saturday afternoon
[02:58] <jdub> maybe we can meet up to work on FindingPackages
[02:59] <seb128> what a nice saturday plan :p
[02:59] <mvo> jdub: I will meet with ross in the 16-17:00 slot, maybe you can join?
[02:59] <mvo> (at sunday)
[02:59] <jdub> (i have a much better picture of the more difficult requirements now)
[02:59] <jdub> mvo: um
[03:00] <jdub> mvo: hrm, i had better be at the annodex one
[03:00] <jdub> mvo: how about 17:00-18:00?
[03:01] <mvo> jdub: I would miss robert love then :/
[03:02] <ogra> oh :(
[03:02] <daniels> dear seb128,
[03:02] <daniels> GNOME IS ON CRACK AGAIN
[03:02] <jdub> mvo: good point
[03:02] <daniels> love,
[03:02] <daniels> daniels
[03:02] <seb128> what?
[03:02] <seb128> panel? wkb?
[03:02] <seb128> xkb
[03:03] <daniels> panel
[03:03] <daniels> my bottom panel (the window list, wastebasket, show desktop) just jumped up to the top of my laptop
[03:03] <trulux> another bomb in a car.....30 people injuried this time
[03:03] <trulux> shit
[03:03] <daniels> it's not spinning and eating all my ram any more, tough
[03:04] <trulux> pitti: I'm going to have lunch and listen to the news for a few minutes
[03:04] <daniels> trulux: eep :\
[03:04] <trulux> pitti: will have vsec ready after that
[03:04] <trulux> dand: yes ;(
[03:04] <seb128> daniels: bah, just dnd it back at its place :p
[03:04] <daniels> seb128: intuitive :P
[03:05] <seb128> you moved it, you probably know how to move it back :)
[03:05] <daniels> haha
[03:05] <daniels> i didn't move it
[03:05] <daniels> i was just reading my email, and bam
[03:05] <seb128> weird
[03:05] <daniels> it decided I didn't have enough things to harass you about
[03:05] <ogra> daniels, blame your mail app
[03:05] <daniels> so it gave me some ammunition
[03:05] <daniels> ogra: mutt??
[03:05] <seb128> that's probably the reason
[03:05] <ogra> yeah
[03:06] <ogra> :)
[03:06] <Burgundavia> jdub, mvo can you write something up to -devel regarding the stuff you discuss, for those of us who are not going to be at GAUDEC?
[03:12] <Unfrgiven> elmo: ping?
[03:14] <jdub> Burgundavia: yeah, will be added to the spec
[03:14] <Burgundavia> jdub, cheers, thanks
[03:16] <dieman> daniels: don't worry, my bottom panel dances around depending on what machines i login to :)
[03:16] <dieman> its really a floating corner panel or something ,though
[03:18] <dieman> too bad gnome doesn't just keep it in the southeast corner at all times :|  login to a box with 1280x1024 and can find it in the middle of a 1600x1200 screen on my main desktop box (shared configs over nfs/orbit over ipv4)
[03:31] <Simira> who has stolen my Norwegian letters??? And my at-sign?
[03:31] <thom> Simira: daniels
[03:31] <tseng|work> klammeraffe!
[03:31] <Simira> help! Someone!
[03:32] <thom> tseng|work: careful, yours'll be stolen next
[03:32] <Amaranth> @
[03:32] <Amaranth> ;)
[03:32] <Amaranth> btw, what's the latest trick for making X work again?
[03:32] <Seveas> editing fontpaths?
[03:32] <Lathiat> order beer delivered to daniels
[03:32] <Seveas> lol :)
[03:33] <Amaranth> fonts this time? i thought that was last time
[03:33] <Lathiat> Amaranth: i had to link /etc/X11/X
[03:33] <Lathiat> to /usr/X11R6/bin/X or something i think
[03:33] <Seveas> ah, then i missed this one already :)
[03:33] <doko> elmo: please sync bash from incoming
[03:33] <Lathiat> look in the error log...
[03:33] <Simira> thanks, tseng, but I'll need a bunch of them during the day.
[03:33] <Amaranth> /etc/X11/X is not executable <--nice :)
[03:34] <tseng|work> you need a symlink
[03:34] <Simira> do I need that?
[03:34] <tseng|work> not if its starting X
[03:34] <Simira> from to where?
[03:34] <Simira> now I got confused
[03:34] <Lathiat> Amaranth: yeh so symlink from wherever
[03:34] <Simira> anyway
[03:35] <Amaranth> Lathiat: It can't be /usr/X11R6/bin/X, that's a wrapper
[03:35] <Lathiat> why cant it be
[03:35] <Lathiat> iirc X is a wrapper anyway
[03:35] <Amaranth> Xof: /etc/X11/X points back to X wrapper executable, aborting.
[03:35] <thom> ls -l /etc/X11/X
[03:35] <thom> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root 17 2005-05-24 16:58 /etc/X11/X -> /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[03:35] <thom> WFM
[03:35] <Amaranth> err, xchat expanded X ro Xof 
[03:37] <Amaranth> hmm, busted symlinks
[03:37] <Amaranth> /usr/bin/X11/Xorg and /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg point to ../../X11R6/bin/Xorg
[03:38] <Amaranth> oh, recursive symlinks, even better :D
[03:38] <Simira> grumph
[03:39] <Simira> ok, seems my keyboard settings are totally wrong, even though they seem right in the graphic keyboard-setup. Where/how do I get my keyboard set up so it works?
[03:39] <thom> ah well, guess it's been upgraded and nuked the relevant symlink
[03:40] <Treenaks> Simira: use hoary.. or threaten to do something horrible to daniels if he doesn't fix it in breezy
[03:40] <Simira> Treenaks: it *IS* hoary
[03:40] <Treenaks> Simira: scary
[03:40] <Simira> I'm not running breezy for my server
[03:42] <Simira> anyone?
[03:42] <Simira> *cries a bit for help and sympathy*
[03:42] <Amaranth> woo, i've totally broken X :)
[03:42] <Simira> Amaranth: Breezy or Hoary?
[03:43] <Amaranth> breezy of course
[03:43] <Simira> right
[03:43] <Simira> hm...
[03:43] <Amaranth> heh, your problem sounds like user issues
[03:44] <Simira> Amaranth: probably. But it doesn't make it less annoying
[03:44] <Simira> brb
[03:44] <Simira> argh!
[03:44] <Simira> how can I get anything done when none of my keys except stndard letters work?
[03:47] <Lathiat> yeh simple
[03:47] <Lathiat> dont run breezy
[03:47] <chmj> straight forward even 
[03:47] <Lathiat> yep
[03:47] <Lathiat> i went back to hoary for now
 Treenaks: it *IS* hoary
[03:48] <trygvebw> ?
[03:48] <Lathiat> while i dont mind dev stuff in general a totally broken X makes it hard to get work done
[03:48] <Amaranth> note to self: dpkg -S X is worthless
[03:49] <Lathiat> heh
[03:50] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[03:52] <mkde> Riddell, ping
[03:53] <Riddell> mkde: hi
[03:54] <mkde> Riddell, got an email from that JohnLevin chap just now, seems he is organising a Ubuntu stall for that lugradio event
[03:54] <Riddell> groovy, get him to put it on the wiki page :)
[03:55] <mkde> yeah thats what i wrote
[03:55] <mkde> hows that list coming?
[03:55] <Riddell> mkde: list isn't here yet, I'm sure jdub has been busy working on it all morning
[03:56] <mkde> lol
[03:56] <dilinger> heh
[03:56] <dilinger> one of my coworkers has requested an ubuntu tshirt w/ naked people on it
[03:57] <HiddenWolf> lol
[03:57] <HiddenWolf> I'd sign
[03:59] <kiko> dilinger, naked mdz  and elmo and sabdfl?
[04:00] <Amaranth> no offense ;)
[04:00] <thom> kiko: BAD MAN!
[04:00] <mkde> those naked models would be more appropriate
[04:00] <tseng|work> kiko, roughage
[04:00] <bob2> kiko: don't give anyone ideas
[04:00] <Amaranth> i'm making progress, i've got X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting. now
[04:00] <dilinger> kiko: that'd work, as long as he didn't wear it around the office ;)
[04:02] <kiko> you guys are all about ubuntu and real people
[04:02] <kiko> we give you the naked lunch
[04:02] <tseng|work> thom: somehow the water from germany yesterday worked all the way to brazil
[04:06] <bob2> ah, it's time for the daily "firefox go whacko" show
[04:06] <bob2> today's stars include uncloseable error boxes and new tabs getting the url of previous ones
[04:07] <tseng|work> bob2: wow, those are my pet peeves too
[04:07] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[04:07] <bob2> it only happens sometimes.  but seems unfixable without a restart.
[04:07] <tseng|work> of course entering a new url gets overwritten
[04:07] <bob2> which is awesome when I have 20 lp tabs open.
[04:07] <HrdwrBoB> and upgrading while runnig firefox and having the whole thing die in the arse
[04:07] <tseng|work> by whatever it decided your url is
[04:08] <tseng|work> eh that one is expected HrdwrBoB 
[04:08] <HrdwrBoB> yeah but if you have it open, you can't save anything you've got open or do anything with it
[04:08] <Mithrandir> use sessionsaver, then
[04:09] <bob2> hmm
[04:09] <HrdwrBoB> Mithrandir: hrm, not sure if it'd work
[04:09] <Mithrandir> HrdwrBoB: it works.
[04:09] <HrdwrBoB> in any case, I got over it, but firefox upgrading should be a tad more graceful
[04:09] <tseng|work> how often do you upgrade firefox, really
[04:09] <bob2> Mithrandir: on mozdev?
[04:10] <bob2> tseng|work: there's been like 3 security releases since the last time I restarted X
[04:10] <tseng|work> every few weeks
[04:10] <HrdwrBoB> tseng|work: often enough... I rarely close it, so even a few upgrades is more than enough
[04:11] <thom> tseng|work: seems that way, yeah
[04:11] <tseng|work> i dunno, i consider firefox to be volatile and act as such
[04:12] <tseng|work> not relying on it to save my work or stay open for weeks
[04:12] <Mithrandir> bob2: I think so, yes.
[04:12] <thom> currently on amd64 it doesn't stay open for 5 minutes
[04:12] <tseng|work> upgrades arent often enough for me to take major issue with it
[04:12] <thom> i might roll one with gcc3.4 and see if it is happier
[04:15] <Riddell> mkde: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
[04:15] <mkde> Riddell rock
[04:16] <Riddell> mkde: can you add that to the wiki page and announce it on ubuntu-user (and ubuntu-devel?)
[04:17] <mkde> Riddell, its on the wiki page, i'll post to those lists sure
[04:17] <mkde> Riddell, gimme a few hours tho
[04:25] <pitti> Treenaks: cryptsetup built, there you go
[04:26] <Treenaks> pitti: \o/
[04:29] <thom> mkde: already done
[04:30] <pitti> mvo: uploaded new control-center with the default sound card selector; yay, my first gnome patch
[04:30] <mkde> argh
[04:30] <pitti> mvo: thanks for your hint about the combobox
[04:30] <mkde> thom, yay
[04:30] <Lathiat> pitti: woo
[04:30] <mkde> i appear to be subscribed twice
[04:30] <mkde> hmm
[04:31] <mvo> pitti: np, glad(e) to help 
[04:31] <Riddell> mkde: you were the first one I subscribed :)
[04:31] <fabbione> pitti: all the sound changes are nice, but did you already switch to libesd-alsa ?
[04:31] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[04:31] <mkde> Riddell, i'm going to unsubscribe that address, but i appreciate the thought ;)
[04:31] <fabbione> pitti: and more important... did we actually implemented the kill -HUP esd to reload the new config?=
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: we don't use esd any more (or at least not ATM)
[04:32] <fabbione> uh ok
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: gstreamer pipes to alsa directly
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: esd + dmix really sucks, quality-wise
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: I tried a few patches, but none of them helped
[04:32] <fabbione> and if there are other apps != gstreamer?
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: alsa or esd
[04:32] <fabbione> so there is still esd around---
[04:32] <pitti> fabbione: you *can* use esd
[04:33] <pitti> fabbione: yes, we should switch that to polypaudio soon
[04:33] <fabbione> note that's a little while i can't update my workstation :)
[04:33] <pitti> fabbione: but I couldn't deal with that yet
[04:33] <fabbione> ok
[04:33] <pitti> fabbione: we now have dmix, can select the default device in gnome-sound-properties
[04:33] <pitti> fabbione: I just need to add the hotplug dialog box
[04:33] <pitti> Hey Keybuk 
[04:34] <fabbione> pitti: yeah i was checking the changelogs.. impressive
[04:35] <tseng|work> pitti: you rock!
[04:35] <ogra> yeah
[04:35] <tseng|work> cant wait to try it out
[04:49] <trulux> pitti: could you give me the default config file for breezy's 2.6.12?
[04:49] <pitti> trulux: every arch and flavor has different configs
[04:49] <pitti> trulux: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.12
[04:49] <pitti> trulux: cd linux-source-2.6.12-*/debian/config
[04:50] <trulux> pitti: then gimme i386 by dcc pelase
[04:50] <trulux> please
[04:51] <pitti> trulux: I have k7, is that ok?
[04:51] <trulux> pitti: yes
[04:51] <trulux> these terrorists are real motherfuckers
[04:51] <jdub> daniels: around?
[04:51] <trulux> there are kids in the streets at that hour
[04:51] <pitti> trulux: people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/config-2.6.12-1-k7
[04:51] <trulux> and more in the street the did the thing
[04:52] <trulux> many thanks
[04:52] <trulux> pitti: thanks
[04:52] <fabbione> ogra, amu: ping?
[04:54] <ogra> fabbione, not tested yet, upgrade in progress, the apps are there on one machine. i need to set up my second machine which is busy with Cxx builds...
[04:54] <fabbione> ogra: ok
[04:54] <dieman> hrm
[04:54] <ogra> but you'll get your first report today
[04:54] <dieman> readahead isn't working in the install im doing. hrummmph
[04:54] <fabbione> ogra: ok :) tomorrow is fine too :)
[04:54] <dieman> just because of that link issue.
[04:54] <ogra> oi
[04:55] <ogra> oki even
[05:09] <thom> right, lets see how hard i broke dhclient
[05:12] <trulux> pitti: did you have problems related to inet = inet_sk(sock->sk);?
[05:12] <pitti> trulux: don't know any more; I have to go no, see you tomorrow; sorry
[05:16] <jdub> thom: nice upload ;)
[05:17] <fabbione> lol
[05:17] <fabbione> ciao enrico :)
[05:29] <enrico> fabbione: ciao!
[05:38] <thom> jdub: shame i fucked it really :P
[05:39] <jdub> heh
[05:39] <thom> (in a non-terminal way, i should add)
[05:41] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I think fabbione has a totally crackful initrd bug for you.
[05:43] <\sh> ah the right man the right time :)
[05:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: he knows already
[05:43] <\sh> Mithrandir: libncurses5-dev
[05:44] <Mithrandir> \sh: done.
[05:44] <Mithrandir> fabbione: oh, ok.
[05:45] <\sh> Mithrandir: thx :)
[05:47] <daniels> jdub: yeah?
[05:50] <jbailey> Mithrandir: He's handed it to me, and I've got the initrd from the guy now.
[05:51] <jbailey> Mithrandir: The bug isn't jumping out at me, though.  I don't see other mentions of it in bugzilla yet, so hopefully it's just that this guy did something insane.
[05:51] <omie> is it the kernel not booting?
[05:51] <fabbione> jbailey: at least 2
[05:52] <omie> i had that this morning, several people on ubuntuforums.org are having that problem, too
[05:52] <jbailey> fabbione: Ugh, really?  Gmm
[05:52] <fabbione> jbailey: one in the chan and one in the bug report
[05:52] <jbailey> Ah, I hadn't looked to see that it was differnet people.
[05:52] <ogra> daniels, no more gvim in the package ?
[05:52] <fabbione> omie: can you be slightly more specific?
[05:52] <omie> seems like ide-generic wasn't in the initrd or the initrd just wasn't working at all
[05:53] <jbailey> omie: The bug that they showed me appared that libc6 wasn't being copied in.
[05:53] <omie> because it couldn't boot off my /dev/hda1
[05:53] <fabbione> omie: a reference to the forum
[05:53] <omie> fabbione: sec
[05:53] <fabbione> jbailey: it's probably the same bug all over
[05:53] <fabbione> jbailey: the kernel boots.. as the old one can..
[05:53] <omie> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=813405
[05:53] <fabbione> the changes are close to 0 for the security fixes
[05:54] <omie> almost all those topics are about the same thing
[05:54] <fabbione> none of them can change behaviour like that
[05:54] <jbailey> Right, but mkinitrd hasn't changed at all in the hoary release.  That's the confusing part.
[05:54] <daniels> ogra: the only thing I deleted is vim-lesstif
[05:54] <daniels> if that's what gvim is, good riddance to it :P
[05:54] <daniels> but there's still -gtk and -gnome
[05:54] <ogra> ~$ gvim
[05:54] <ogra> E25: GUI cannot be used: Not enabled at compile time
[05:54] <ogra> with the recent package
[05:54] <Treenaks> ogra: *headdesk*
[05:55] <ogra> heh
[05:55] <daniels> ogra: never tried -gtk, -gnome worked for me
[05:55] <\sh> ogra: u don't need s/^g// vim;)
[05:55] <daniels> someone else reported that it was broken ... I don't know what it is, I'm not the vim maintainer, and I'm going to bed
[05:55] <ogra> daniels, happens with both
[05:56] <jbailey> Ah crap.
[05:56] <jbailey> Acc. to the forums some people updated to glibc 2.3.5
[05:56] <Lathiat> dnaiels please save the world kthxbai
[05:56] <fabbione> jbailey: amen
[05:56] <jbailey> Don't do that people.  When your system breaks you get to keep both halves with little sympathy.
[05:56] <Lathiat> let me guess, it was a backports project?
[05:56] <ogra> \sh, if i want to use my mousewheel to scroll through a 8.4M xscreensaver patch, its very helpful to have gvim :-P
[05:56] <thom> jbailey: oh hoary? holy christ
[05:57] <jbailey> The best I can do I guess is upload a new glibc that conflicts against the old initrd-tools.
[05:58] <Treenaks> isn't "Sorry, you broke it. We warned you." enough?
[05:59] <\sh> ogra: 8.4M?
[05:59] <ogra> \sh, yep
[05:59] <\sh> u rewrote xscreensaver?
[05:59] <ogra> nope
[06:00] <Treenaks> ogra: images?
[06:01] <ogra> nope...
[06:01] <Kamion> jbailey: that would cause fun upgrade issues, surely
[06:01] <jbailey> Kamion: Possibly, but using the new glibc with an old initrd gives unbootable systems.
[06:01] <\sh> hmmm..again a package with cp config.{guess,sub} . during the clean: target
[06:01] <Kamion> jbailey: do we really want initrd-tools to be removed during the course of the upgrade?
[06:02] <jbailey> Kamion: No, wouldn't it just put in the newer version?
[06:02] <Kamion> jbailey: only if it can do so without requiring the newer glibc
[06:02] <fabbione> jbailey: probably you want to force a dependency on a new one?
[06:02] <Kamion> which it might be able to at the moment, but one stricter dependency from initrd-tools could break that easily ...
[06:02] <Kamion> versioned << conflicts in upgrade calculations are really REALLY fragile
[06:03] <jbailey> What do you suggest?
[06:04] <Kamion> I'm not sure :-/
[06:04] <Kamion> we need the Breaks: header
[06:04] <jbailey> Keybuk: *poke*
[06:04] <Keybuk> heh
[06:04] <jbailey> Keybuk: help? =)
[06:04] <fabbione> eheh
[06:04] <fabbione> dpkg:
[06:04] <Keybuk> patches welcome :p
[06:04] <fabbione> Breaks: distro
[06:05] <Keybuk> seriously, there isn't a robust way to do that without the long-proposed Breaks header
[06:06] <jbailey> Is that just an "unpack me first" sort of reverse pre-depends type of thing?
[06:07] <omie> is it something from backports that's pulling in 2.3.5?
[06:07] <jbailey> No idea.  I haven't confirmed that it's this in all cases, I just saw it mentioned in the foru,s.
[06:08] <omie> i don't think it's quite the case for me:  libc6: 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu13
[06:09] <Kamion> jbailey: roughly, Breaks is to Conflicts as Depends is to Pre-Depends
[06:09] <Kamion> it's a weaker relationship
[06:09] <jbailey> omie: Right.  I'm looking at the specific case where the ld.so just isn't being copied to the initrd.
[06:10] <Keybuk> if A breaks B, then A and B may be unpacked at the same time, but not configured at the same time
[06:10] <Kamion> Conflicts says "may not be >= half-installed at the same time"
[06:10] <fabbione> there we go
[06:10] <fabbione> 2.6.12rc5 is up
[06:10] <fabbione> Kamion: we are getting closer to final :)
[06:10] <Kamion> upstream *did* say they wanted testing ...
[06:11] <omie> jbailey: that's what was happening to me
[06:11] <omie> shit
[06:11] <omie> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 -> ld-2.3.5.so
[06:11] <omie> don't know what that's about
[06:11] <jbailey> omie: That's about severe suckage. =)
[06:12] <jbailey> omie: If you can help us trace where that came from, that would be lovely.
[06:13] <\sh> Mithrandir: ping
[06:13] <\sh> ah forget it..wasn't in the chroot
[06:25] <pef> hello
[06:27] <pef> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10999 this is my first bug report, have I missed something ? Is it clear enough ?
[06:28] <seb128> doko: you want gaim bugs? :)
[06:28] <doko> hmm, not really ...
[06:28] <seb128> k, because you just reassigned one to you so I was wondering :p
[06:29] <doko> ahh, yes, and then I saw gaim was already uploaded ...
[06:30] <seb128> k
[06:30] <seb128> pef: the bug looks correct, if somebody wants extra informations he'll comment on it
[06:33] <pef> seb128: thank you ;)
[06:35] <\sh> hmmm
[06:38] <javi> hi, I upgrade to breezy gnome-terminal go to hell when I type CNTRL-SHIFT-N .... do you know about it ?
[06:38] <thom> javi: yes
[06:38] <trygvebw> javi, things like that happens when you're using breezy...
[06:39] <trygvebw> especially right now
[06:39] <Burgundavia> javi, ctrl-X stuff is currently fubared
[06:39] <Burgundavia> javi, no ETA on fix
[06:40] <javi> ok, it isn't only  happens to me
[06:42] <javi> thank you!
[06:52] <doko> Kamion, elmo: libmime-perl (main) depends on libconvert-binhex-perl (universe). ? 
[06:53] <Kamion> sounds like a straightforward thing to promote; it's in the anastacia report
[06:54] <jvw> anastacia... why do I suspect that's enought member of the dak family of scripts :)?
[06:54] <Kamion> correct
[06:55] <Kamion> produces reports of suggested main<->universe promotions/demotions
[06:55] <jvw> I see -- demotions, though, you mean removal from a certain ubuntu suite?
[06:55] <Kamion> no, movement between components
[06:55] <ogra> doko, i assigned you two Cxx transition bugs where i have no idea what to do... beware of vtk, it compiled 2h here
[06:56] <jvw> ah, right
[06:56] <Kamion> we don't require reuploads to do that, because otherwise we'd've had to upload everything in universe when we were getting started
[06:57] <Kamion> instead there's a script called teri which does the move
[06:57] <jvw> without recompile even, or with?
[06:58] <Kamion> without
[06:58] <Kamion> it's just overrides
[06:58] <\sh> raping my rootserver with pbuilder
[06:59] <jvw> right, that sounds like all of Debian packages are in some pool somewhere then, otherwise the move would be a bit tricky...?
[06:59] <jvw> and covertly an upload anyway?
[06:59] <Kamion> not really, it actually has to move the file from pool/main/ to pool/universe/ and leave a symlink behind
[07:00] <Kamion> (if the file was in a different component in another suite, that is)
[07:00] <jvw> oh, right, so the debian compontents are in the bigger pool too, next to the ubuntu components
[07:00] <Kamion> no ...
[07:00] <doko> hmm, what was the equivalent to packages.debian.org?
[07:00] <Kamion> there's an auto-syncer that reuploads Debian packages to our pool
[07:00] <jvw> I thought ubuntu didn't have a 'main', but maybe I'm wrong :)
[07:00] <Kamion> doko: packages.ubuntu.com
[07:01] <Kamion> jvw: you're wrong ;-)
[07:01] <jvw> bad me ;)
[07:01] <Kamion> (you asked for that)
[07:02] <jvw> eh... I'm not offended or something if someone tells me that I'm wrong if I'm wrong...
[07:02] <doko> seb128: could you care about bug-buddy? FTBFS, missing header
[07:02] <seb128> k
[07:02] <seb128> I'll upload pan for new aspell too
[07:04] <doko> seb128: pan is already done
[07:05] <seb128> doko: k, that less to do :)
[07:05] <seb128> doko: I'll not get my upload rejected like for gst 2 days ago :p
[07:05] <Kamion> jvw: there isn't a "bigger pool", anyway, the pool organisation looks pretty much the same as Debian's; it's just that we move stuff around in it a little more freely
[07:06] <\sh> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
[07:06] <\sh> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
[07:06] <\sh> E: Sub-process returned an error code
[07:06] <\sh> while I was trying to create a new pbuilder env for breezy
[07:06] <CarlK> I just duplicated https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10999 - got the same "rt_sigaction(SIGINT..." - is that enough to mark it "confirmed/new", or is there more to it?
[07:07] <doko> seb128: just trying to get main installable again, so Kamion can make a CD tomorrow ;)
[07:07] <seb128> k
[07:14] <fabbione> Mithrandir: benno is on irc :)
[07:14] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no chan that i can see
[07:17] <mdz> mvo: aptitude still seems to need a rebuild
[07:18] <bob2> doko: should python-profiler really be in multiverse?
[07:18] <mdz> mvo:   aptitude: Depends: libsigc++-1.2-5 but it is not going to be installed
[07:18] <doko> bob2: yes, unfortunately
[07:19] <bob2> ah, right, restriction on use
[07:20] <doko> bob2: it's the license, it's restricted, in that the code may only be reused for python related things. whoever does really want to reuse a python profiler outside of the python world ...
[07:20] <bob2> on code from 1994, even
[07:20] <bob2> that all seems a tad silly
[07:21] <Kamion> doko: ... seems ambitious :)
[07:21] <Kamion> but go for it
[07:22] <Kamion> mdz: libsigc++-1.2-5 is correct
[07:22] <mdz> oh, we're going from c102->null rather than c102->c2?
[07:22] <Kamion> apparently so
[07:22] <doko> it is, I'm in contact with somebody, but you have to track the companies ...
[07:23] <mdz> well, at any rate not all of the apt-related stuff is installable at once
[07:23] <Kamion> ok, aptitude's installable as part of a debootstrap, so it must be something outside minimal
[07:24] <ogra> \sh, see the PbuilderHowto, there is a note about hat
[07:24] <doko> seb128, daniels: did somebody of you did adapt packages to the new dbus?
[07:24] <mdz> I can't upgrade apt without removing aptitude
[07:24] <ogra> that even
[07:25] <Kamion> mdz: breezy_probs.html only lists kynaptic as being uninstallable
[07:25] <mdz> though aptitude seems to be built with the new libapt
[07:25] <\sh> ogra: new note ;)
[07:25] <mdz> Kamion: they're all individually installable
[07:25] <Kamion> ah
[07:25] <mdz> they just conflict
[07:25] <ogra> doko, mono moves to main, so we'll get a dbus-cil package out of the standard dbus source ....if that answers your question
[07:26] <\sh> ogra: no there is no problem with doing the update from hoary to breezy, see my error message
[07:26] <\sh> argl
[07:26] <\sh> yes
[07:26] <bob2> ogra: mono -> main for breezy?
[07:26] <ogra> bob2, yep
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: ok to move the mono stuff to main now? ogra sent me mail with a list
[07:26] <bob2> awesome
[07:26] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[07:26] <ogra> bob2, beagle love :)
[07:26] <bob2> ogra: looking forward to it :)
[07:26] <ogra> yeah
[07:26] <seb128> doko: what package? I updated some GNOME stuff with redhat/upstream patches mainly
[07:27] <bob2> ogra: plus, when it crashes, you guys have to fix it for me ;p
[07:27] <ogra> heh
[07:27] <ogra> bob2, tseng has to, i only care for the amd64isms
[07:28] <mako> ogra, tseng: you guys up for a backports meeting say, next wednesday at 19:30UTC?
[07:28] <ogra> sure
[07:28] <mako> and anyone else who wants to show up?
[07:29] <mako> who else should be there?
[07:29] <\sh> yeah
[07:29] <Kamion> beagle, monodevelop, tomboy added to supported; of course elmo'll need to actually do the promotion
[07:29] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[07:29] <ogra> Kamion, yay :)
[07:30] <mvo> mdz: I'll have a look at aptitude now
[07:32] <ogra> mako dholbach will be there
[07:33] <doko> seb128: workrave
[07:33] <doko> ogra: no
[07:35] <seb128> doko: fedora doesn't ship it apparently, so no patch here
[07:35] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[07:36] <mako> ogra: anyone else who should definitely be there?
[07:38] <ogra> mako, dunno if mdz is needed here...or someone else from the desktop teamlead...
[07:38] <mdz> where?
[07:38] <mdz> oh, backports
[07:38] <mdz> yes, I need to be there
[07:38] <mako> mdz: can you be there?
[07:39] <mako> next wed, 1930?
[07:39] <Burgundavia> `+++++++++++++++0
[07:39] <mdz> mako: yes
[07:39] <Burgundavia>                                                                                                                                                7`-*+1`9-+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++`+78888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888887
[07:40] <Burgundavia> +-*`*--/**********************************************************************ZERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
[07:40] <mako> Burgundavia: RRR
[07:40] <mvo> Burgundavia: hrm, what are you doing?
[07:40] <\sh> this is not ascii art?!
[07:40] <ogra> kitti kitti kitti
[07:40] <ogra> meow
[07:40] <\sh> hahah
[07:41] <Amaranth> that looks like nothing here
[07:41] <Amaranth> what was it?
[07:41] <ogra> Amaranth, dont you see the cat footprints in it ?
[07:42] <\sh> it was ascii keyboard art (c) by Burgundavia cat...or his dog tried to become humanoid, an error in the matrix
[07:42] <Amaranth> its' a bunch of non-lined up gibberish here
[07:42] <Amaranth> oh
[07:42] <Amaranth> maybe he fell asleep on the keyboard
[07:44] <mako> cool, announced
[07:47] <mako> mdz: the cc meeting yesterday was funny IRT the backports stuff
[07:47] <mdz> mako: I have a todo item to write a spec for official backports
[07:48] <mako> mdz: you looking to farm it out to someone.. i think next wednesday might be teh place to do it
[07:48] <mako> people were like, "i've done loads of stuff for x and y"
[07:48] <Burgundavia> whoops, sorry guys
[07:48] <mako> "great great"
[07:48] <mako> .. "and done LOADS fo backports work!"
[07:48] <Burgundavia> was cleaning my desk
[07:49] <mako> sort of like "let's focus on x and y"
[07:49] <Amaranth> where are the irc logs again?
[07:49] <mako> mdz: *loads* of people are using them
[07:49] <mdz> mako: see above
[07:49] <mako> mdz: they have the stats but it's scary
[07:50] <Amaranth> yeah, the backports might not exist soon, they're so popular the server is pushing it's bandwidth limits
[07:50] <Amaranth> wait, they got a mirror with a fat pipe, that's right
[07:50] <mako> i'm sure tseng is relieved to hear that
[07:50] <CarlK> apt needs to get in bed with bittorrent ;)
[07:51] <bob2> people have started doing that, then got bored
[07:51] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, I have some irc logs, but fabbione has the offical one
[07:51] <Amaranth> CarlK: that would be worthless
[07:51] <Amaranth> when you're using apt you want it to finish fast and get out of your way
[07:51] <mako> Amaranth: i have some too
[07:52] <mako> Amaranth: i'm going to publish the 'official' logs as soon as i write them up
[07:52] <mako> likely not today though
[07:52] <mdke> Amaranth, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs iirc
[07:52] <mako> maybe tomorrow night
[07:52] <CarlK> Amaranth anything that needs a "fat pipe" could be helped
[07:52] <mako> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuBackports
[07:53] <Amaranth> CarlK: Only a select few packages would benefit. bittorent isn't the greatest thing to use for 400k files
[07:53] <Amaranth> that's file size, not number of files ;)
[07:54] <CarlK> Amaranth - I agree that the currennt BT wouldn't be good, more the distributed load concept
[07:54] <mako> Amaranth: i was going to say that i suspect that bt is not useful for a lot more than 400k files
[07:54] <mako> i'm happy to go ahead and generate over 400k files that it would be useful for right now to illustate the point :)
[07:55] <CarlK> mako - if it will make you happy, don't let me slow you down ;)
[07:55] <Amaranth> apt and synaptic are supposed to basically hide the fact that you're using the internet to download programs, otherwise people might be encouraged to download random programs and try to run them
[07:55] <mdke> mako, that meeting is going to be crazy ;)
[07:55] <Amaranth> it you use bittorrent it makes it more transparent
[07:56] <Amaranth> I have to make it to that meeting, it's going to be funny as hell.
[07:56] <Amaranth> Probably lots of users coming to back up/save their precious backports.
[07:56] <mdke> i hope it will be civilised
[07:56] <mdke> from both sides
[07:56] <Amaranth> ;)
[07:57] <fabbione> meeeeh
[07:57] <ogra> mdke, at least from our side it will
[07:57] <fabbione> backports are evil :)
[07:58] <dieman> ugh.
[07:58] <Amaranth> they put smeg and pymusique in their universe instead of their hoary-extras, it makes no sense
[07:58] <dieman> backports.
[07:58] <ogra> fabbione, but users demand them obviously.... so lets see to get them to a half way usable state at least
[07:58] <dieman> backports were an invention for debian because policy and release management had different goals than the users who needed them.
[07:59] <mako> mdke: CRAZY
[07:59] <Amaranth> and anyone using backports is probably using a cvs version of gnome-menus
[07:59] <mdke> mako, you chairing?
[07:59] <Amaranth> of course, that was my fault so i'll hide now
[07:59] <mako> mdke: i can
[07:59] <mdke> mako, bring your cattle prod
[07:59] <mako> mdke: charing IRC meetings can be tough
[07:59] <mako> i have a little bit of practice
[07:59] <mdke> i bet
[07:59] <mako> -v 
[07:59] <dieman> thats what +m is for, at worst
[08:00] <bob2> mako has some experience chairing, them too
[08:00] <fabbione> ogra: i partially agree, but the recent backports have fucked up security updates for users
[08:00] <mako> bob2: actually, mostly charing
[08:00] <fabbione> ogra: so i am not generally happy about them
[08:00] <ogra> fabbione, if it would be  only that....
[08:00] <mdke> from a philosophical point of view, backports encourage users to adopt the "i must have the latest version, regardless of whether i need it and the disadvantages" attitude
[08:01] <mako> i *really* think that this is more a matter of the fact taht these guys are almost completely out of touch with what we're doing and how we're doing it
[08:01] <kent> Cant you talk to the persons responsibel for the backports and make them work better with Ubuntu?
[08:01] <ogra> fabbione, but coordinated backports fom people that have gone the MOTU way are at least packaged half way sane 
[08:01] <bob2> kent: they're in their own world
[08:01] <mako> kent: i just planned that meeting for next wed. :)
[08:01] <mdke> kent, thats mako's plan
[08:01] <dieman> hmm
[08:01] <fabbione> ogra: there are packages that you simply can't backport
[08:01] <dieman> i should show up, im interested now in hearing the discussion.
[08:01] <bob2> getting them to usefully participate on the lists would be a good start
[08:01] <fabbione> ogra: and i am sure they don't even know that
[08:01] <ogra> fabbione, yep, i know... 
[08:01] <bob2> and de-gatewaying the forums from the dev list
[08:02] <mako> i mean, they don't even *know* or standards or why we think they are problematic
[08:02] <ogra> fabbione, that are the tasks we have to solve with them... 
[08:02] <mako> they seem to be reasonable people
[08:02] <mako> we may not get everything we want.. and that's ok
[08:02] <mdke> why do they make backports?
[08:02] <mdke> what is the main reason?
[08:02] <mako> but it's our interests to do this
[08:02] <mako> mdke: they're young and impatient ;)
[08:03] <mdke> mako, there must be a better reason
[08:03] <fabbione> ogra: if i can decide i will put a veto on my packages on backport
[08:03] <fabbione> or for the matter everything that is in base (see kernel, glibc, gcc-*)
[08:03] <mako> yes, there is :)
[08:03] <\sh> mdke: updates, software which will never be included into ubuntu, cause of legal concerns
[08:03] <mako> \sh: that's only one reason
[08:03] <mdke> \sh, why the updates tho?
[08:03] <\sh> mdke: e.g. gaim-1.3.0
[08:03] <\sh> best example
[08:03] <mako> mdke: they want things more quickly.. and because they can work within their own repository more easily (they think) than in ours
[08:03] <mdke> \sh, but hoary gaim is patched right?
[08:03] <dieman> can the mailing lists be mailed to without being a member?
[08:03] <\sh> it's not going to be updated for hoary (IMHO) but many users want to have it
[08:04] <mdke> dieman, depends on the list, usually not
[08:04] <\sh> mdke: honstly i don't know..I'm using psi :)
[08:04] <dieman> hmm
[08:04] <mako> mdke: if we make it easy to work in our repo, make them aware of policy and stuff, i think we'll see this problem sort of go away :)
[08:04] <dieman> oh well
[08:04] <bob2> dieman: almost certain they're just moderated for non-subscribers
[08:04] <mdke> dieman, ah i think you might be able to post from gmane
[08:04] <dieman> heh
[08:04] <bob2> dieman: but it's mailman, you can subscribe but elect not to receove any mail
[08:04] <\sh> mdke: but I think for those reasons backports can be quite usefull, if those guys are applying the same rules like ubuntu official does
[08:04] <dieman> bob2: ahh, forgot
[08:04] <mdke> mako, well unless you change the policy of not uploading new packages during a release cycle (!?!) then I imagine there will always be backports
[08:04] <dieman> bob2: thats what i can do.
[08:05] <mdke> \sh, i see
[08:05] <mdke> mako, i love the way you are optimistic about everything
[08:05] <Nafallo> morning all!
[08:05] <ogra> fabbione, avoid collisions with essential packages, make sure that package quality is at least not fucking up your system....(and i've seen some of their packages .... they make you cry)
[08:05] <Burgundavia> mako, I have met one of the backports people, at LFNW after my talk. He is quite a sane person, and would be happy to work within the confines of the official Ubuntu stuff
[08:05] <ogra> fabbione, i would do too, but if you cant stop them from what they do, embrace them ....
[08:05] <ogra> and make clear how evil it is to backport certain stuff....
[08:05] <mako> mdke: that's fine.. but they also do backports in places they dont need to, in ways that make upgrading/maintaince very difficult and are in other ways problematic
[08:05] <ogra> i.e. i have no objections in sane packaged universe backports....
[08:05] <mdke> mako, well it will be cool if you can solve that
[08:06] <mako> mdke: we're not going to get 100%
[08:06] <mdke> mako, any progress is progress right?
[08:06] <mako> mdke: but if we can make our life and the life of our users 50% less problematic, that's still a major victory
[08:07] <mako> mdke: and i think that if we offer these people a place to do work that is less problematic and some good reasons to do it, they might choose to direct their energy there.. but who knows :)
[08:07] <fabbione> ogra: well i guess i will formally ask them not to backports the packages i maintain and their build-dep and deps...
[08:08] <fabbione> ogra: this backport thing today made me lose almost 3 hours to dig in problems that are not even ours...
[08:08] <fabbione> that's rather annoying
[08:08] <ogra> fabbione, the initrd ?
[08:08] <fabbione> since users regret to say that they have backports enabled
[08:08] <fabbione> ogra: part of it yes...
[08:08] <ogra> ARGH
[08:08] <mdke> mako, :)
[08:08] <bob2> fabbione: always ask for their /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:09] <bob2> or you find out they installed some random package from debian experimental
[08:09] <ogra> fabbione, i know how you feel, the only way to get mono in hoary re the backports.... and the packages are nearly the worst i've ever seen....
[08:09] <fabbione> bob2: that's true, but still.. 
[08:09] <ogra> bob2, even sid....
[08:10] <ogra> (in hoary)
[08:11] <ogra> fabbione, but you cant stop them doing it, we are open source.... so lets see to get some more control t avoid the snafu
[08:11] <fabbione> ogra: yes.. i am not stopping them.. i will ask politely to stop backporting my packages, their build-dep and depends
[08:12] <ogra> yep, thats good...
[08:12] <fabbione> (that hounestly means all of ubuntu != gnome and kde)
[08:12] <bob2> hah
[08:12] <fabbione> humpf
[08:13] <ogra> fabbione, oyoure a MOTU ?
[08:13] <fabbione> jbailey: the latency problem was nothing to do with my eth0
[08:13] <fabbione> jbailey: it's a problem with router cpu that overloads when the NAT table is full :/
[08:13] <fabbione> ogra: uh?
[08:14] <ogra> fabbione, i would restrict that to main...
[08:14] <ogra> fabbione, let them play in the universe ;)
[08:14] <fabbione> ogra: i don't have build-dep in universe :)
[08:14] <ogra> fabbione, you also said depends ;) 
[08:14] <\sh> huu? Message-ID: <BAY12-F4CCB660359D8A35D87ADEAD0E0@phx.gbl>
[08:15] <fabbione> ogra: yeah.. not reverse-depends
[08:15] <ogra> hehe
[08:15] <\sh> SuSE has some fixed place from where you can get most of the 
[08:15] <\sh> packages. This feature is absent in Ubuntu. You need to build your own 
[08:15] <\sh> sources.list.
[08:15] <\sh> did i miss something?
[08:15] <ogra> lol
[08:15] <Burgundavia> \sh, where is that from?
[08:16] <Amaranth> dhcp stuff uses dbus now?
[08:16] <Amaranth> is that for NetworkManager?
[08:16] <fabbione> Amaranth: sooner or later the kernel will depends on dbus
[08:16] <bob2> Amaranth: yes
[08:16] <fabbione> :)
[08:16] <Amaranth> fabbione: scary
[08:16] <\sh> Burgundavia: ubuntu-users ML
[08:17] <Burgundavia> \sh, yes, I saw it now
[08:17] <blueyed> The bittorrent tracker is "offline" (again).
[08:17] <\sh> Burgundavia: answered already ;)
[08:17] <Burgundavia> mdke, you are wrong about the UK team not need to do translations
[08:18] <Burgundavia> mdke, there are very active welsh translation teams
[08:18] <mdke> Burgundavia, argh shit
[08:18] <Burgundavia> mdke, and gallic
[08:18] <mdke> need to remedy that
[08:18] <mdke> thanks
[08:19] <luis__> and even fairly active british english teams
[08:19] <luis__> s/color/colour/
[08:19] <luis__> and such
[08:19] <mdke> luis__, *rolls eyes*
[08:19] <luis__> yeah
[08:19] <luis__> I think it is sort of silly too
[08:19] <mdke> but i can't believe i overlooked the other UK languages
[08:20] <luis__> but they get pissy when you say that too their face and/or threaten to take it away :)
[08:20] <Burgundavia> this is cool http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/3975519.stm
[08:20] <mdke> thanks Burgundavia 
[08:21] <Burgundavia> mdke, just figured I would point it out
[08:22] <mdke> Burgundavia, i'll repost but just to the -uk list i think
[08:22] <mdke> or maybe i should post to the others too
[08:24] <Burgundavia> mdke, just to the UK and sounder I think
[08:24] <Burgundavia> maybe users
[08:24] <mdke> sounder?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> mdke, the chit chat list
[08:27] <mdke> i didn't post to that one
[08:27] <Burgundavia> pretty low volume, you may want to
[08:28] <omie> did you guys track down the libc6/mkinitrd problem yet
[08:31] <\sh> http://star-techcentral.com/tech/story.asp?file=/2005/5/24/itfeature/11017020&sec=itfeature good to read (martin taylor, MS GM for platform strategy)
[08:32] <syndicate> Is anyone working on adding the redhat cluster system and GFS to ubuntu?  If not, who would I talk to if I wanted to start working on it?
[08:33] <ogra> syndicate, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterFilesystems
[08:33] <ogra> syndicate, ;)
[08:33] <syndicate> sweet
[08:34] <ogra> syndicate, if you happen to be crazy enough to use breezy, feel free to help testing :)
[08:34] <syndicate> Yeah, i'm using it now
[08:35] <ogra> syndicate, and if you want to help testing, please get in contact with fabbione :)
[08:36] <syndicate> will do
[08:37] <ogra> syndicate, great, fabbione will love to hear that :)
[08:37] <syndicate> Yeah, I love clustering stuff
[08:37] <syndicate> and I love ubuntu
[08:37] <syndicate> I feel like a jackass just consuming :)
[08:37] <ogra> yay, we too 
[08:37] <syndicate> do you have his email handy?
[08:38] <kiko> fabbione@canonical.com should work
[08:38] <syndicate> excellent
[08:38] <Amaranth> is it sad that i'm installing bits and pieces of KDE just to see smeg load the icons for them correctly?
[08:43] <\sh> Burgundavia: u read the reply of this guy with the chaos sources.list?
[08:44] <\sh> btw. a good example how bad backports can be
[08:44] <Burgundavia> \sh, no, I don't follow users, except on the forum
[08:45] <Burgundavia> \sh, just saw it now
[08:46] <Burgundavia> \sh, that is pure insanity
[08:47] <\sh> Burgundavia: this is bad
[08:50] <Dilago> hi, How can mount floppy in boot process of Live-CD?
[08:51] <Dilago> in the first interface of menu debconf ...
[08:51] <ogra> \sh, but typical
[08:52] <\sh> ogra: yeah...thats the reason why we need to get the hands on those backporting people ;)
[08:53] <kiko> guys
[08:53] <kiko> did hoary support ntfs-resizing?
[08:53] <Mithrandir> kiko: iirc, yes.
[08:54] <\sh> ntfs resizing?
[08:54] <kiko> Mithrandir, how was it accessed in the installer menu?
[08:54] <Mithrandir> kiko: press enter on the partition and it'll offer to resize, iirc.
[08:54] <syndicate> truncating and update the tables :D
[08:54] <kent> whats up with www.ubuntu.com?  Are you chaning the css or something? it looks a bit strange in firefox.
[08:55] <kent> s/chaning/changing  :)
[08:56] <kiko> Mithrandir, hmm, no resize option, though you can edit the size. nothing happens when you do that, though.
[08:57] <Mithrandir> kiko: http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/ntfsresize.html 
[09:02] <kiko> huh
[09:28] <bob2> thom: is libapache-mod-security even useful anymore?
[09:45] <sladen> lamont: I wrote this a couple of weeks ago;  it may help your live-cd situation on !i386 http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/e2fszero/e2fs-zero.py
[09:47] <doko> elmo, Kamion: seb128 and me found one more packages for universe->main: libnautilus-burn2
[09:54] <Mithrandir> hm, what's the font used in the logo?
[09:55] <ogra> Mithrandir, i know a very similar one called VAG-Rounded.... but thats a commercial one
[09:55] <ogra> mss ?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> ogra: any idea if there's something which won't look too bad together with it?  I just need to add "norge" to the logo for ubuntu-no
[09:56] <mdke> kent, looks ok here, try shift reloading
[09:56] <\sh> Most Stupid Supporter
[09:56] <ogra> Mithrandir, i would take a different one, if you take just a similar one it might look like patchwork
[10:04] <kent> mdke, it must have been temporary insanity on my side.  It looks ok now :)
[10:05] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, the ubuntu logo is hand created, not a font
[10:05] <mdke> kent, cool. sometimes it has caching problems
[10:06] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, I would choose something that fits, but is complementary, but not an exact copy
[10:16] <lamont> sladen: coolness
[10:20] <sladen> lamont: would adding an option to copy the blocks to a new file (instead of writing zeros to the existing one) be more useful;  since then the file would be re-sparsed, whereas writing to it means that it'll always get expanded to full size (eg. 3GB, even if only 500MB is in use)
[10:21] <lamont> today we do a unpack/pack into the same filename (which is a re-write).  I suppose writing to a new file would be better, though.
[10:25] <omie> did any one figure out how libc6 2.3.5 ends up getting into hoary?
[10:28] <omie> someone was saying backports and breezy, but we have a machine here that supposedly hasn't touched backports or breezy and it's got ld-2.3.5.so
[10:31] <Mithrandir> smurfix: who is responsible for ubuntu-fr.org?  Can I rip the look off them or whom should I ask for permission?
[10:33] <smurfix> I'd assume that David is (or knows) that person
[10:33] <Mithrandir> smurfix: which David?
[10:33] <smurfix> The one whose name is next to "FrenchTeam" on the LoCoTeamList wiki page. ;-)
[10:35] <smurfix> Mithrandir:  david@ubuntu-fr.org
[10:35] <Mithrandir> smurfix: cheers, thanks.
[10:35] <mdke> smurfix, y0
[10:36] <mdke> smurfix, what was the issue john levin was hinting at re: GB/UK?
[10:36] <thom> uk is the iso code for ukraine, among other things
[10:36] <smurfix> thom: No, the Ukraine is .ua
[10:36] <Mithrandir> thom: the language code for Ukrainian, but the country code for the great britain.
[10:37] <Mithrandir> great, isn't it?
[10:37] <mdke> http://www.bcpl.net/~j1m5path/isocodes.html
[10:37] <smurfix> The country is "Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
[10:37] <thom> Mithrandir: thanks, is what i meant
[10:38] <smurfix> so, .gb, being Great Britain, technically does not include Northern Ireland
[10:38] <mdke> smurfix, yeah
[10:38] <mdke> smurfix, which was why we preferred uk, but he suggested there was a good reason to go with gb?
[10:38] <smurfix> Yeah, because the official country code *still* is .gb, and that's where he lives in ;-)
[10:39] <mdke> confusing stuff
[10:39] <smurfix> I'm going to compromise by allowing both, and strongly suggest to people to be somewhat consistent
[10:39] <mdke> i have always used/heard united kingdom
[10:40] <\sh> laters gentlemen
[10:40] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, ubuntu-ca has already ripped off their look with permission
[10:41] <mdke> ca is another confusing one :/ *scratches head*
[10:41] <smurfix> mdke: You just need to state what you're talking about... reallanguage example: what's a "wing"?
[10:41] <Burgundavia> smurfix, dead chicken, thing on a plane
[10:42] <mdke> or bird's wing
[10:42] <smurfix> part of a building, part of a window
[10:42] <Burgundavia> that to
[10:42] <mdke> yeah all those
[10:42] <mdke> although haven't heard the window one ;)
[10:42] <Burgundavia> not part of a window, not in Canada
[10:42] <Burgundavia> mdke, ca is the catalan lang code, but the Canadian country code
[10:42] <smurfix> I've heard it. It's quite common usage in German
[10:42] <mdke> Burgundavia, yeah thats what i mean
[10:43] <mdke> german words don't count :p
[10:43] <smurfix> So in the context of any given conversation that word is not ambiguous at all, and neither is "ca". Mostly. ;-)
[10:44] <ogra> mdke, they do: eins zwei drei ;)
[10:44] <Burgundavia> in the context of ubuntu-ca, it is ambigous
[10:45] <mdke> ogra, omg i just got that
[10:45] <mdke> that's terrible
[10:45] <ogra> heh
[10:45] <ogra> but they count ;)
[10:46] <mdke> you're just making it worse for yourself
[10:47] <smurfix> Burgundavia: Possibly -- if it ever becomes an issue, we'll use three-letter language codes.
[10:48] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:48] <Mithrandir> *sigh*; why doesn't gimp have a "scale down and save a copy as?"
[10:49] <mdke> smurfix, apparently our official name is "the united kingdom of great britain and northern island" ;) go figure
[10:50] <Nafallo> tukogbani :-)
[10:51] <smurfix> Mithrandir: so write a script ...
[11:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, for mass resizig gthumb has some options
[11:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'm not interested in mass resizing, I'm interested in working in high-res, but exporting to web-quality.
[11:22] <ogra> ah
[11:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: but thanks anyhow. :)
[11:45] <\sh> time to go to bed :(
[11:47] <uniq> gnite \sh.
[11:47] <mvo> night \sh 
[11:50] <ogra> night \sh