[12:13] <ajmitch> morning
[12:15] <uniq> gnite.
[12:15] <uniq> :)
[12:16] <mvo> hey koke 
[12:16] <koke> hi!
[12:24] <Burgundavia> kiko, ping
[12:24] <kiko> Burgundavia, pong
[12:24] <kiko> how may I be of assistance
[12:24] <tseng> is rob.weir@c.com a valid pointer for bob2 ?
[12:24] <thom> tseng: yes
[12:24] <tseng> rock on
[12:24] <ogra> c.com ?
[12:24] <Burgundavia> kiko, #launchpad regarding malone bug 795
[12:24] <ogra> ah
[12:25] <thom> u.com should also work
[12:25] <ogra> night mv
[12:25] <ogra> o
[12:25] <mvo> :)
[12:26] <Keybuk> man, Foster's _really_ need to sack their marketing department
[12:26] <Keybuk> they've followed up on their spectacular UK campaign of "Brewed to taste better cold"
[12:26] <thom> they have new ads?
[12:27] <Keybuk> with the utterly jawdropping "You wouldn't want your beer to be warm, would you?"
[12:27] <thom> way to play to silly .au prejudice
[12:29] <tseng> omfg osnews
[12:30] <tseng> "mono is to become key component of gnome 3"
[12:30] <tseng> "read interview iwth miguel for proof"
[12:30] <ajmitch> haha
[12:30] <ajmitch> an interview dated 2003?
[12:30] <tseng> if that isnt flamebait
[12:30] <tseng> no actually.. its miguels blog
[12:30] <tseng> even better
[12:30] <ajmitch> osnews has dropped a lot in quality..
[12:31] <ajmitch> and it was never very high to start with
[12:31] <tseng> He also has the powers in achieving this goal. Novell is stronger and has more power than Red Hat or Sun and Novell are the legal owner of GNOME.
[12:31] <tseng> wow
[12:32] <ajmitch> I think that's one of the usual trolls on osnews
[12:32] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, I think it was the "news" part of the title that fooled people that it actually was, as opposed to /. which has never really pretended to be a "news" site
[12:34] <Burgundavia> tseng, I love the assertion Novell > Sun. Sun could swallow Novell tomorrow and not really notice
[12:34] <tseng> yeah
[12:35] <tseng> i dont see novell moving >1mil products
[12:35] <Burgundavia> there was some scuttlebutt about them actually doing it
[12:35] <tseng> there is that for everything
[12:35] <tseng> thanks to slashdot and osnews
[12:36] <Unfrgiven> good morning all
[12:36] <tseng> hi
[12:36] <Burgundavia> sometimes scuttlebutt has a way of being true
[12:36] <ogra> oh, novell owns a dwarf ? i didnt know that
[12:37] <ogra> but i doubt its legal to own dwarfs :)
[12:37] <tseng> only if there are 42 of them
[12:37] <tseng> and you are in cambodia
[12:37] <ogra> heh
[12:38] <ajmitch> morning Unfrgiven 
[12:38] <Unfrgiven> ughh im so tired this morning
[12:39] <ogra> the real question here is, do they also own snow white and is _this_ legal
[12:39] <Unfrgiven> anyways... im wanting to get involved in the cxx transition... now i've tried reading the wiki pages but had some questions...
[12:39] <tseng> ask ajmitch :)
[12:39] <ogra> Unfrgiven, ask ajmitch 
[12:40] <ogra> :)
[12:40] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: is it just a case of us providing patches for libs to build on gcc4?
[12:40] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: and then repackaging them?
[12:41] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: usually it's just changing the package name, sometimes patching, making sure it all builds nicely & getting past the ogra/doko filter ;)
[12:41] <ajmitch> ogra: nice delegation there :P
[12:41] <ogra> hehe
[12:41] <ajmitch> ah, 'experimental for Ubuntu' :)
[12:41] <ogra> ajmitch, you said i steal all your packages... so i thought i'd give something back ;)
[12:41] <Burgundavia> figure this is a dmix bug? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11190
[12:42] <mdz> jbailey: around?
[12:42] <ajmitch> ogra: I never said such a thing..
[12:42] <ajmitch> honest
[12:42] <ogra> hmm
[12:43] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: cool. ill try and take a look at some packages later today
[12:43] <Unfrgiven> tseng: who did you talk to to get your blog syndicated on planet ubuntu?
[12:43] <tseng> Unfrgiven: mail your rss feed and hackergotchi to jdub
[12:44] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: check the list for packages that haven't been taken yet
[12:44] <ajmitch> CxxLibraryList, that is
[12:44] <ajmitch> instructions are there & on BreezyToolchainTransition, i think
[12:44] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hmmm i dont have a hackergotchi yet... does it have to be a specific format/size?
[12:44] <tseng> no
[12:44] <tseng> its optional
[12:45] <ajmitch> we can probably find a photo of you somewhere
[12:45] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ok will do. i have training to attend at work in 10 min. so i'll prolly check it out later in the day
[12:45] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: oh ive got a photo so thats not a prob...
[12:45] <ajmitch> it's more fun if we select one :)
[12:46] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: hence why i quickly added that i'll provide one :P
[01:49] <bluefoxicy> back on hoary
[01:50] <bluefoxicy> since breezy /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg -> ../../X11R6/Xorg
[01:50] <bluefoxicy> (symlink)
[01:55] <trulux> ajmitch: there?
[01:55] <ajmitch> yes?
[01:55] <trulux> ajmitch: another red cow crack today. vsec fixed though and I'm getting skilled with the policy language
[01:55] <ajmitch> ok..
[01:55] <trulux> expect the targeted policy to be ready in a rush
[01:56] <ajmitch> ok
[01:56] <ajmitch> bbl
[01:57] <trulux> ajmitch: it's 2:00am here, I can't do what I did yesterday
[01:57] <trulux> need to go to bed soon
[02:01] <trulux> ajmitch: this the asspain anti-crack: -EXPORT_SYMBOL(in6addr_any);
[02:01] <trulux> -EXPORT_SYMBOL(in6addr_loopback);
[02:01] <trulux> I will do a dirty trick
[02:01] <trulux> and tell pitti that it works fine on 2.6.12-rc5
[02:03] <trulux> ajmitch: I dunno why they are on that fever of removing exported symbols
[02:03] <trulux> dilinger: there for a while?
[02:04] <trulux> const struct in6_addr in6addr_loopback = IN6ADDR_LOOPBACK_INIT;
[02:04] <trulux> and then define the macro
[02:05] <trulux> shit... this is the worst trick I've done in my life :)
[02:05] <trulux> zul: heya
[02:11] <trulux> aj: ping
[02:11] <trulux> arg
[02:11] <trulux> ajmitch: ping
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_params.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_funcs.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_acl.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_fs.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_bsdjail.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsec_hooks.o
[02:11] <trulux>   CC [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/src/vsecurity.o
[02:12] <trulux>   LD [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/vsecurity.o
[02:12] <trulux>   Building modules, stage 2.
[02:12] <trulux>   MODPOST
[02:12] <trulux>   CC      /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/vsecurity.mod.o
[02:12] <trulux>   LD [M]   /home/lorenzo/kernel/tmp/vsecurity/vsecurity.ko
[02:12] <trulux> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/lorenzo/kernel/linux-2.6.12-rc5'
[02:12] <trulux> cc     testing/server_bind.c   -o testing/server_bind
[02:12] <trulux> cc     testing/test-rlimits.c   -o testing/test-rlimits
[02:12] <trulux> renbukai today
[02:12] <trulux> :)
[02:12] <trulux> now, bed time
[02:12] <trulux> good night fellows
[03:05] <jbailey> mdz: Am now for a moment, I'll be back in an hour or so though...
[03:09] <mdz> jbailey: ping me when you're back and have some time for a phone call
[03:16] <jsgotangco> morning :)
[03:16] <tseng> hi.
[03:18] <jsgotangco> tseng, that mono live cd is awesome crack just tried it
[03:18] <tseng> jsgotangco: sweet
[03:18] <tseng> its fun, a nice preview of my stuff for breezy
[03:18] <tseng> for the impatient
[03:20] <jsgotangco> yeah i was playing around with beagle
[03:20] <tseng> how well does it perform on the cd?
[03:20] <tseng> im worried about that
[03:21] <jsgotangco> sure its not that fast but its tolerable
[03:21] <tseng> k
[03:38] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  does breezy break for you?
[03:38] <bluefoxicy> Xorg's executable is a symlink to itself
[03:38] <tseng> #ubuntu
[03:38] <bluefoxicy> breezy broken bugs dammit, how is that user support and not development?
[03:39] <tseng> everyone but you knows breezy is broken
[03:39] <lifeless> daniels: you made xorg self referential ? lol
[03:39] <tseng> if you want to cry about it, go to #ubuntu
[03:39] <daniels> argh
[03:39] <daniels> second time lucky
[03:40] <tseng> harsh
[03:40] <tseng> i like it.
[03:40] <lifeless> what does that do ?
[03:40] <daniels> bluefoxicy: broken 'workarounds' bite you in the butt, news at 11.  it's still not #u-d material.
[03:43] <lifeless> daniels: what does that mode line do ?
[03:44] <daniels> what modeline?
[03:45] <lifeless> daniels: 11:39 -!- mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*bluefox@*.whtmrs01.md.comcast.net]  by daniels
[03:45] <tseng> ban
[03:46] <tseng> which has the side effect of him being silenced
[03:46] <lifeless> even though hes still in channel .. ?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:46] <ajmitch> quite convenient at times
[03:46] <tseng> yes.
[03:46] <daniels> my tolerance ran out last week
[03:47] <jsgotangco> he can bug you with pm though
[03:47] <jsgotangco> in other news, i decidedto start saving for a n770
[04:14] <jblack> Hey guys. WHat's up? 
[04:14] <ajmitch> hi jblack 
[04:14] <jsgotangco> jblack, hey its been a while how are you
[04:14] <jblack> Pretty good. 
[04:15] <jblack> How about you guys? 
[04:15] <ajmitch> still alive
[04:15] <jblack> Heh. Life is the stuff that ain't killed you yet? 
[04:15] <jsgotangco> not bad im doing good lately
[04:16] <jblack> I've got a bit of an ambigious question. I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking, and I don't know what kind of answer you'll give, so bear with me.
[04:17] <jblack> Right now the baz team is doing these things called "imports". We're importing things into the launchpad that primarily have cvs and subversion sources, and spitting out baz archives on the other side.
[04:18] <jblack> lifeless tells me that you guys are very good at hunting down these repositories very quickly. I was wondering what sort of rules of thumb you guys have come up with to do this sort of thing in an efficient manner.
[04:18] <tseng> the upstream repositories?
[04:19] <jblack> Yeah. hunting down cvs archives and subversion archives for those packages.
[04:19] <tseng> for bigger stuff we probably just have an idea whether it is hosted by gnome, sourceforge etc
[04:19] <tseng> and can go to the right place and do a quick search
[04:19] <tseng> if not there is usually relevant info on the app homepage
[04:20] <jblack> How do you generally quickly tell the different between whether something is part of gnome, or happens to run on it? 
[04:20] <tseng> just previous knowledge really
[04:20] <lifeless> tseng: what about the path binary package -> who the upstream reall is
[04:21] <tseng> apt-get source and read copyright
[04:21] <lifeless> tseng: theres a bunch of assumed knowledge you have ..
[04:21] <tseng> will point you to the homepage
[04:21] <tseng> even better..
[04:21] <tseng> qa.debian.org
[04:21] <lifeless> tseng: which jblack doesn't - which is why I have pointed him to you
[04:21] <tseng> lemme try one
[04:21] <jblack> some random package... 
[04:22] <tseng> im going to do mono, since i know where it is
[04:22] <jblack> Mono is good. 
[04:22] <tseng> then ill walk you though if this works as expected
[04:22] <jblack> though I know that one is gnome. 
[04:22] <tseng> eh sortof
[04:22] <tseng> has its own svn
[04:22] <jblack> its not? 
[04:23] <tseng> ok dude lets see if this is an acceptably pain-free proceedure
[04:23] <tseng> bring up packages.ubuntu.com
[04:23] <jblack> check.
[04:23] <tseng> search for mono with distribution of breezy or hoary even
[04:23] <tseng> under the obvious Search heading
[04:24] <tseng> the page that comes up has a ton of stuff, most are all in the single "mono" source
[04:24] <tseng> you can search just source packages also
[04:24] <tseng> anyway, click libmono0 or something
[04:25] <tseng> the link says breezy
[04:25] <tseng> this page has a link to the copyright file
[04:25] <jblack> desync
[04:25] <jblack> Never mind. 
[04:25] <tseng> which by policy always has a link to the package download page
[04:25] <jblack> ok. viewing copyright file.
[04:25] <tseng> which for lack of a more direct path..
[04:26] <tseng> should eventually lead you to some svn/cvs page
[04:26] <tseng> looking around
[04:26] <jblack> Cool. This is useful.
[04:26] <Burgundavia> where does pitti keep his list of vunerablities?
[04:26] <dilinger> people.ubuntu.com/~pitti?
[04:26] <jblack> so, here we've got about 10 mono packages created out of one authoritive source. 
[04:27] <tseng> jblack: that wont always land you exactly in the right place
[04:27] <jblack> give or take a dozen.
[04:27] <tseng> but its close
[04:27] <tseng> it could be that google gets you there faster if you have a good idea what you are looking for
[04:27] <tseng> jdub: yep.
[04:27] <tseng> er, jblack
[04:28] <tseng> google for "mono svn" gets you there in less clicks, in this particular case
[04:28] <jblack> Yeah. google problably works better for obviously huge. 
[04:29] <tseng> yep
[04:29] <jblack> Then again, obviously huge stuff is generally well documented.
[04:29] <tseng> but good to know where to get it if all else fails, I guess
[04:29] <tseng> i hope that helps some..
[04:29] <jblack> Yeah, it helps some, though it's reopened a question that I've been trying to ignore.
[04:30] <tseng> btw is there any plans to baz mirror svn.debian.org projects
[04:30] <jblack> multiple products that are derived from the same repository. 
[04:30] <tseng> hm multiple .debs, yes
[04:30] <tseng> actually I can make it worse
[04:31] <jblack> please do. I'm a masochist.
[04:31] <tseng> pkg-mono repository on svn.debian.org has several directories, each of which representing a source package
[04:31] <tseng> almost all of them representing several resultant .debs
[04:32] <jblack> but svn.debian.org isn't authoritive for things like mono, correct? 
[04:32] <tseng> no, its only the packaging bits
[04:32] <jblack> The deb dirs and such.
[04:32] <tseng> right
[04:32] <jblack> Hold on. I need to check something quick.
[04:34] <jblack> Ok. I'm not authoritive on this, but I believe we're sticking with authoritive product stuff
[04:34] <tseng> ok..
[04:34] <lifeless> we are importing upstream
[04:34] <lifeless> tseng: ^^
[04:34] <tseng> i thought part of HCT was importing other vendors as well
[04:35] <tseng> thats fine, is there a simple tla newbie proceedure that i could do it for myself?
[04:35] <jblack> Yeah. Thats what I mean. the authentic sources. 
[04:36] <jblack> There's a public cscvs available, but it only works for cvs and its not as smart as it could be.
[04:37] <jblack> tseng. Thanks for the advice. it'll help a bit. 
[04:37] <ajmitch> baz seems to be fairly easy to use, for the basics at least
[04:37] <tseng> jblack: great.
[04:37] <jblack> One of the big problems I've had dealing with is linking up a package name with what you guys think the authoritive source is. 
[04:38] <tseng> apt-get source binary-name will fetch the source that is associated with it
[04:38] <tseng> if you cant guess from packages.u.c
[04:38] <tseng> let me try this search agian
[04:38] <jblack> I tried that a few times. Ironically more than one package out there didn't seem to have a web address at all. 
[04:38] <tseng> yeah thats no good
[04:38] <jblack> Just magically showed up in debian. 
[04:39] <tseng> it cant search a binary down to a source name on the page
[04:39] <ajmitch> unfortunately, it gets a bit hard to track down upstream when we have to hunt for patches on mailing lists
[04:39] <jblack> No. I mean in the downloaded sources. 
[04:39] <tseng> jblack: yeah definately check the copyright in those odd cases
[04:39] <tseng> its policy for the url to be there
[04:39] <ajmitch> debian/copyright is usually the best way, followed by google
[04:40] <tseng> ajmitch: i just showed him to grab the copyright off packages.ubuntu.com to save the hassle of grabbing the whole source where he doesnt want it
[04:40] <tseng> any other hot tips?
[04:41] <ajmitch> none that I can think of at the moment
[04:42] <tseng> ajmitch: man, it would be really nice to be able to work with pkg-mono in bazaar
[04:43] <tseng> maybe its just because i dont know how to use svn
[04:43] <tseng> but im basically editing over top of the repo
[04:43] <tseng> and readding stuff by hand after checking out new stuff
[04:44] <jblack> Thanks for the help guys.
[04:44] <tseng> nps
[04:44] <ajmitch> yeah I've started throwing all my selinux stuff in bazaar
[04:45] <tseng> rock on
[04:45] <tseng> how is tla-buildpackage?
[04:45] <ajmitch> haven't tried it yet
[04:45] <tseng> i could import the tree as it is now
[04:45] <tseng> and make two branches
[04:46] <tseng> make my changes in one
[04:46] <tseng> import meebeys latest into another
[04:46] <tseng> and merge
[04:49] <tseng> or just go to sleep.. cya :)
[04:52] <ajmitch> night
[04:54] <jblack> Ok. Here's a good example. 
[04:54] <jblack> mdz gave baz a list of packages that have been modified by ubuntu (that seems like a good list to work from). One of them is "anna".
[04:56] <jblack> There's a svn for it, but its svn.debian.org, which I might or might not be able to trust as the authentic source. 
[04:58] <Burgundavia> who handles gksu stuff?
[05:01] <crimsun> MOM does, but I guess seb mainly
[05:02] <crimsun> (not merge but maintainers)
[05:02] <Burgundavia> he is not likely to be up either
[05:33] <robitaille> jdub,  ping
[05:36] <jdub> robitaille: pong
[05:38] <robitaille> jdub,  it seems the ubuntu-ca mailing list administrator (alex combas) hasn't been seen online in a couple of weeks and right now someone cannot send any e-mails to our list.  So it has been suggested that I become a 2nd mailing list adminstrator to deal for problems like that while Alex is missing in action.  Is that possible?
[05:39] <jdub> robitaille: sure, preferred email address?
[05:39] <robitaille> robitaille@gmail.com  (I should really ask for my ubuntu.com address one of these days)
[05:41] <robitaille> thanks
[05:41] <jdub> hrm
[05:41] <jdub> broken mailman
[05:42] <Burgundavia> robitaille, shall we tack me on there as well, just in case?
[05:44] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  if you want; it's fine with me.
[05:45] <jdub> ah crap
[05:46] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  it seems both our names keep coming back as "stable" members of the canadian community
[05:46] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:46] <robitaille> crap == problem?
[05:46] <Burgundavia> and we have never jumped up and down and asked for it
[05:47] <jdub> do you want to both be on?
[05:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:47] <jdub> preferred email address?
[05:48] <Burgundavia> corey.burger@gmail.com
[05:52] <jsgotangco> who do you ask for an ubuntu.com address?
[05:54] <ajmitch> afaik it's not sorted just yet
[05:55] <jsgotangco> (no rush anyway)
[05:57] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:58] <ajmitch> I missed out on asking about business cards
[05:59] <daniels> ajmitch: bradb will give you some
[06:00] <lifeless> some hundreds
[06:21] <Burgundavia> jdub, poing
[06:44] <WebWiz> anybody here use ruby?
[06:48] <srbaker> WebWiz, yep
[06:48] <srbaker> religiously
[06:48] <srbaker> religously
[06:48] <srbaker> or something.
[06:48] <srbaker> very lots.
[06:48] <srbaker> :)
[06:48] <WebWiz> HelloWorld.rb:1:in `require': No such file to load -- gtk (LoadError)
[06:48] <WebWiz> i am getting this in ubuntu
[06:48] <srbaker> inst the ruby gtk bindings
[06:48] <WebWiz> i thought i did....
[06:49] <srbaker> dpkg -l |grep ruby |grep gtk
[06:49] <WebWiz> ii  libgtk-ruby1.6 0.34-1         Gtk+ interface for Ruby
[06:49] <WebWiz> ii  libgtk2-ruby   0.11.0-1ubuntu GTK+ bindings for the Ruby language
[06:50] <WebWiz> did that help?
[06:50] <WebWiz> lol
[06:50] <srbaker> weird
[06:50] <srbaker> paste line 1 of HellowWorld.rb
[06:50] <WebWiz> require 'gtk'
[06:51] <srbaker> huh
[06:51] <WebWiz> hrm?
[06:51] <srbaker> jussec
[06:51] <srbaker> lemme try
[06:52] <WebWiz> k
[06:52] <srbaker> try require 'gtk2'
[06:52] <srbaker> i bet 'gtk' works if you use ruby1.6
[06:52] <WebWiz> HelloWorld.rb:3: uninitialized constant Gtk::WINDOW_TOPLEVEL (NameError)
[06:52] <srbaker> hu
[06:52] <WebWiz> hah at least i got farther
[06:53] <srbaker> i don't know any more.
[06:53] <srbaker> :P
[06:53] <WebWiz> srbaker, you are totally correct
[06:53] <WebWiz> ruby1.6 HelloWorld.by brought up my window fine
[06:53] <WebWiz> using 'gtk'
[06:54] <WebWiz> Thanks! :)
[06:56] <srbaker> i would grab gtk1 for ruby1.8
[08:04] <mako> ddd
[08:07] <jsgotangco> hi mako
[08:08] <mako> yeah, didn't meant to do that
[08:08] <mako> i am about to crash :)
[08:08] <mako> was just connecting to sync mail and sent off the next batch of cds to the shipping folks
[08:08] <jsgotangco> hmmm right its probably 2am there now
[08:24] <Burgundavia> daniels, dkpg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is currently producing gibbled xorg.confs, but unknown whether it is user error or not
[08:24] <daniels> Burgundavia: wrt mouse settings, yeah
[08:24] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:24] <Burgundavia> that was the error I got
[08:24] <Burgundavia> there is another small bug, to do with screen res sizes
[08:24] <Burgundavia> seen that?
[08:25] <daniels> yeah, with intel?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> nope
[08:26] <Burgundavia> ati
[08:26] <daniels> cool
[08:26] <daniels> url?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> just a sec, my screen res went messed with that game
[08:28] <Burgundavia> it adds "640x350" to all the monitor sections, when that is not a choosable option
[08:28] <Burgundavia> this one maybe user error
[08:28] <daniels> i'm thinking user error
[08:29] <Burgundavia> hmm, I choose all defaults
[08:29] <Burgundavia> hmm, anyway, not a huge bug
[08:34] <daniels> grepping for 350 over the entire xorg debian dir produces nothing useful
[08:34] <Burgundavia> hmm, odd little bug
[08:35] <Burgundavia> whatever, I will try some reconfigures again, and if it comes up again, I will file a bug
[08:41] <pitti> Morning
[09:01] <mdz> pitti: morning
[09:01] <pitti> Hi mdz
[09:03] <fabbione> hey mdz
[09:03] <fabbione> morning pitti
[09:04] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[09:04] <fabbione> mdz: got my email yesterady?
[09:04] <mdz> fabbione: intel?  yes, thank you very much
[09:04] <fabbione> mdz: no problem :) that was easy
[09:05] <Treenaks> pitti: g-v-m asks for a passphrase now!
[09:05] <Treenaks> pitti: but it doesn't seem to work :(
[09:05] <Treenaks> pitti: (morning, btw)
[09:07] <pitti> Treenaks: will look at it later, gimme some minutes please
[09:07] <Treenaks> pitti: of couse
[09:07] <Treenaks> +r
[09:10] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: are you busy? or are you going to sleep soon?
[09:11] <mdz> fabbione: yes and yes, why?
[09:11] <mdz> fabbione: if you have some time, I would like to schedule a phone call with you
[09:11] <mdz> tonight or tomorrow
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: well if you have a few minutes i would like to talk with you about ClusterFileSystem
[09:12] <mdz> (UTC-7)
[09:12] <fabbione> mdz: sure even now
[09:12] <mdz> fabbione: not yet, perhaps in 30-45 min?
[09:12] <fabbione> mdz: sure
[09:12] <fabbione> works for me
[09:12] <mdz> we will see if I can stay awake
[09:12] <fabbione> mdz: this evening should be ok'ish
[09:12] <fabbione> it depends from the time because we have guests at home
[09:13] <mdz> fabbione: if we don't talk before I sleep, let me know what time would be good to talk tomorrow
[09:13] <fabbione> mdz: even today after 19:00 UTC is fine
[09:14] <mdz> ok
[09:14] <fabbione> guests here tend to go away early in the evening :)
[09:14] <fabbione> otherwise tomorrow after 05:00 UTC is fine
[09:14] <fabbione> or now if you don't fall asleep :)
[09:15] <fabbione> whatever you prefer is ok with me
[09:44] <pitti> Treenaks: ok, can you check with "killall gnome-volume-manager; gnome-volume-manager" in a shell?
[09:45] <jdub> mdz: meeting about backports?
[09:45] <mdz> jdub: isn't that in like 9 hours?
[09:46] <jdub> mdz: no idea, just wondering wtf ;)
[09:46] <mdz> oh, you were responding to my mail
[09:46] <mdz> yeah, mako is setting it up
[09:46] <jdub> yeah
[09:46] <mdz> next wednesday actually
[09:46] <jdub> i guess sane backports are better than insane backports
[09:46] <mdz> yep
[09:46] <jdub> but it still makes me cry
[09:46] <mdz> jdub: next wednesday, directly after the staff meeting, if memory serves
[09:46] <mdz> I think we can twist backports into something sane
[09:46] <Treenaks> pitti: I rebooted..
[09:47] <Treenaks> pitti: that didn't work
[09:47] <pitti> Treenaks: no, it can't; I'm interested in the g-v-m debugging messages; let's continue this in /query
[10:02] <haggai> pitti: hmm, now I'm glad we ended up without cdrdao in main for hoary ;)
[10:03] <pitti> haggai: does it have issues?
[10:03] <haggai> pitti: yup, http://www.mandriva.com/security/advisories?name=MDKSA-2005:089
[10:04] <pitti> haggai: uh, CAN-2002-*? that's stone old
[10:05] <Treenaks> pitti: oh, one more small thing:
[10:05] <Treenaks> ** (gnome-cups-icon:7940): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030
[10:05] <Treenaks> pitti: multiply that by 600.000 and you have my .xsession-errors :)
[10:06] <pitti> haggai: our cdrdao isn't setuid root, so actually only the symlink race remains
[10:06] <haggai> pitti: ah, not so bad then
[10:07] <trulux> pitti: did you got the email?
[10:09] <trulux> bbl, class
[10:10] <pitti> trulux: yes, will try soon
[10:41] <tepsipakki> do you know if g-v-m etc handles automagic mounts CF etc cards plugged on a USB card reader?
[10:42] <tepsipakki> automagic mounts _of_ CF cards...
[10:42] <tepsipakki> plugging one doesn't generate any events, as far as I know..
[10:53] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: if it doesn't generate any events, it's kinda hard to do.
[10:55] <doko> Kamion, elmo: please move these packages from universe to main: libqscintilla5c2 libenchant1c2 libnautilus-burn2 libconvert-binhex-perl (needed for libmime-perl) xpdf-utils (needed to build kdegraphics)
[10:58] <bob2> tepsipakki: works for me.
[10:58] <bob2> for memory stick, anyway
[10:58] <Mithrandir> didn't we just get rid of xpdf for main?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> bob2: it depends on the reader.  Cheap readers often don't generate any fluffy events when you insert and pull out the card.
[10:58] <bob2> ah
[10:58] <bob2> guess I got lucky, mine was cheap (they only seem to sell cheap ones here)
[10:58] <tepsipakki> the kernel lists this 4-in-1 reader as scsi-disks
[10:58] <tepsipakki> made by Apacer
[10:59] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: you're lucky. My built-in cardreader is some weird TI device (which, according to the docs should be in "ATA Compatible Mode")
[10:59] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: but it doesn;t work at all
[11:01] <tepsipakki> well, I haven't tested the functionality at all, yet. All I know is that they are a pain in the a**, because if they break, the kernel (2.4 at least) doesn't boot
[11:02] <tepsipakki> hangs when trying to access it or something
[11:02] <tepsipakki> there _really_ is no free lunch
[11:03] <tepsipakki> and right now I got fed up with ircii
[11:03] <tepsipakki> I'll try and debconfify it
[11:03] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: I have a 6-in-1 USB cardreader which works fine
[11:03] <jsgotangco> same here
[11:03] <jsgotangco> mine is by TwinMOS andworks greate
[11:03] <tepsipakki> these apacer-thingies just tend to break often
[11:03] <jsgotangco> although i got to loan one cardreader that didnt work at all
[11:04] <Treenaks> mine's made of metal :)
[11:04] <Treenaks> probably a thin layer of cheap aluminium, but hey, it's metal!
[11:04] <jsgotangco> still made in Taiwan heh
[11:05] <tepsipakki> hmm, this is 8-in-1 maybe, but has only four slots (ER151)
[11:06] <tepsipakki> and the front panel is definately plastic ;)
[11:06] <bob2> hm
[11:07] <bob2> the installer doesn't seem to let me use a different mirror for the base system to the installer stuff
[11:07] <tepsipakki> bob2: it might be hairy
[11:07] <tepsipakki> are you preseeding it?
[11:08] <bob2> no
[11:08] <tepsipakki> oh, ok
[11:09] <bob2> I probably should
[11:09] <bob2> but there's the fight between being lazy now vs being lazy later
[11:14] <herzi> doko: ping
[11:18] <doko> herzi: ?
[11:18] <herzi> doko: did you have time to take a look at the gdb-powerpc problem?
[11:20] <doko> herzi: sorry, no.
[11:20] <bob2> new personal best for install a linux machine
[11:24] <hunger_> Any chance of seeing gcc4-compiled libboost soon?
[11:25] <pitti> elmo: mc sync, please
[11:26] <doko> herzi: thanks for the attachment
[11:26] <fabbione> i need an opinion...
[11:26] <doko> elmo: please sync bash from unstable
[11:27] <fabbione> should we build all the suite from one single source package
[11:27] <fabbione> or 20 small little tiny bits and pieces?
[11:27] <herzi> doko: np, that's just for by pleasure (as I need this -- I'm using a 6 month old sarge package for gdb as this version worked)
[11:28] <daniels> fabbione: little tiny bits and pieces
[11:29] <fabbione> daniels: it's not 200MB.. it more like less than 2MB
[11:31] <daniels> oh
[11:31] <fabbione> daniels: it's a bit of overhead both ways
[11:31] <daniels> single
[11:31] <fabbione> that's why
[11:31] <jdub> heh
[11:31] <jdub> weird
[11:32] <fabbione> jdub: if that was the only problem...
[11:33] <fabbione> right now out of this 20 bits and pieces
[11:33] <fabbione> 5 of them needs to come from the FC4 branch
[11:33] <fabbione> 3 from  HEAD
[11:33] <fabbione> others from RH4L branch
[11:33] <fabbione> it's a ROYAL mess
[11:33] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:33] <hunger> Sorry, libboost is already available compiled by gcc4... I checked a lib that was not yet updated before asking:-)
[11:40] <Kamion> jblack: for anna, svn.debian.org is the authoritative source, yes; anna is a debian-installer component.
[11:41] <thesaltydog> Kamion, I'm back. Sorry
[11:45] <Kamion> thesaltydog: ok, but it's you who wanted to ask me a question, so go ahead :)
[11:46] <seb128> daniels: any idea on when will the build/path issues be fixed?
[11:46] <thesaltydog> Kamion, yes sorry, but I am at work and I was called outside. Here I am, so...
[11:47] <seb128> daniels: nm :)
[11:47] <thesaltydog> the matter is ubm, or what it will be.
[11:47] <thesaltydog> I have added a deafult "novice" view, very much simpler than the others. Expert views are always reachable by clicking on tabs.
[11:48] <daniels> seb128: NEVAH
[11:48] <seb128> daniels: and the xkb issues? 
[11:48] <seb128> should I upgrade and start pissing owen to know if he has an idea on this? :)
[11:49] <Kamion> thesaltydog: um, OK, I'd rather not be your permanent contact within Ubuntu for this, I was just chiming in with a couple of points earlier
[11:49] <thesaltydog> Kamion, can I come back on the "name" issue?
[11:49] <daniels> seb128: don't bother Owen, it's actually an XKB issue
[11:49] <daniels> seb128: the symlink has been working fine for me so far
[11:49] <Kamion> like I say, read the BrandingForDerivatives spec and you'll understand where we're coming from on that
[11:50] <seb128> daniels: what symlink?
[11:50] <thesaltydog> Kamion, yes I know, but as last night you pointed out a couple of issues... I don't know I have to refer to..
[11:50] <Kamion> I don't see a problem with "ubm" though
[11:51] <thesaltydog> Kamion, didn't you say maybe to change name Ubuntu BottUp Manager? If no, I will happily leave it as it is..
[11:51] <daniels> seb128: /usr/lib/X11/xkb as a symlink to /etc/X11/xkb
[11:51] <seb128> daniels: k, thanks
[12:01] <Kamion> thesaltydog: I asked if you'd consider having a different name appear in users' menus
[12:05] <\sh> morning
[12:13] <pitti> Hey ogra
[12:13] <pitti> (s)
[12:35] <doko> Kamion, ogra: bash-3.0-15 should fix the waitpid problem
[12:36] <Kamion> doko: cool, thanks
[12:37] <doko> Kamion: any news on the packages needing main love?
[12:56] <seb128> pitti: 
[12:56] <seb128> sound-properties-capplet.o(.text+0x194): In function `get_soundcards':
[12:56] <seb128> : undefined reference to `snd_card_next'
[12:56] <seb128> etc
[12:56] <seb128> your g-c-c upload
[12:57] <pitti> seb128: uh, isn't it linked to libasound.so?
[12:57] <pitti> for me it is
[12:57] <seb128> that's buildd not happy
[12:57] <seb128> I've not tried to figure what's wrong
[12:57] <pitti> ok, will do soon
[12:57] <pitti> *sigh*
[12:58] <seb128> it doesnt -lasound
[12:59] <pitti> hmm? odd, worked for me (dh_shlibdeps)
[01:03] <ogra> doko, yay
[01:06] <zul> hey
[01:06] <pitti> Hi zul, how is it going
[01:07] <zul> better...im not throwing up anymore
[01:18] <Kamion> doko: libqscintilla5c2 doesn't seem to be on the list for promotion; done libenchant1c2, libnautilus-burn2, libconvert-binhex-perl as obvious; skipping xpdf-utils because we're trying to get rid of xpdf from breezy/main
[01:18] <Kamion> elmo: ^--
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: is hilarie safe to run, to fix up cross-component symlinks? (libconvert-binhex-perl)
[01:25] <doko> Riddell, Kamion: xpdf-utils is a build-dependency of kdegraphics, so it currently hurts the KDE C++ transition a bit ... Riddell, amu: could you check, if it's needed?
[01:25] <Unfrgiven> elmo: ping?
[01:26] <daniels> doko: it's probably for kpdf
[01:26] <daniels> which should be using poppler these days
[01:26] <Kamion> doko: it's in hoary/universe, although I don't quite understand why, as it was on the Kubuntu release CDs
[01:26] <Kamion> looks like a mistake
[01:27] <Kamion> not something I have any intention of touching, though - leaving to elmo
[01:29] <seb128> poppler is the way to go for sure
[01:30] <Treenaks> they'll want qoppler of koppler or something
[01:30] <doko> Kamion: libqscintilla-dev comes in/is as a build dependency of python-qt3
[01:31] <seb128> libpoppler0-qt probably for kde
[01:32] <tepsipakki> what's up with rhythmbox.. I can pause once, the next time it hangs
[01:32] <Kamion> doko: yes, and python-qt3 is currently on the list for demotion to universe
[01:32] <\sh> if u guys say xorg+kde is working  niceley, i will start with pyqt and pykde any the rest
[01:33] <\sh> s/any/and/
[01:34] <Kamion> doko: nothing in main depends on it (there are suggests, but no depends); if it's needed, somebody needs to change the seeds
[01:36] <tepsipakki> ok, it's not rhythmbox, because the version in hoary hangs too. maybe gstreamer
[01:36] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: gdb it..
[01:37] <Treenaks> (build a debug version, gdb it)
[01:40] <trulux> back
[01:43] <tepsipakki> treenaks: no time ;) downgrading gstreamer helped
[01:48] <pitti> seb128: ah, now I see, that wasn't from your system, but from the build log
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: when I say "buildd is not happy", that's no my box, no :)
[01:48] <pitti> seb128: sorry, I didn't pay close attention, was overly busy with sth else
[01:48] <seb128> np
[01:51] <trulux> pitti: heya fellow
[01:52] <pitti> hi trulux 
[01:52] <trulux> fabbione: argh, capabilities=m in Breezy's kernel
[01:52] <trulux> fabbione: that shouldn't be built-in
[01:52] <trulux> pitti: how' it going?
[01:52] <pitti> trulux: what's wrong with that?
[01:53] <fabbione> trulux: no. there is absolutely no problem with cap=m
[01:53] <trulux> fabbione: OK, then other LSM modules will suck without appending a proper line to the kernel command line
[01:54] <trulux> I think it was capability.disable=1 but I have NFC right now
[01:54] <trulux> fabbione: what problem?
[01:54] <trulux> the no-modularized-caps FUD?
[01:54] <Riddell> doko: investigating kdegraphics and xpdf
[01:54] <trulux> symbols are still exported
[01:54] <trulux> I can corrupt it anyways, either built-in or modularized
[01:54] <Riddell> \sh: kdelibs should be fine so you can work on pykde and pyqt
[01:55] <fabbione> trulux: so what is the problem? module is fine :)
[01:55] <trulux> fabbione: then why they're built-in?
[01:55] <fabbione> trulux: cap is not built-in
[01:55] <trulux> shit, right
[01:55] <\sh> Riddell: thx
[01:55] <trulux> fabbione: kick me NOW please
[01:56] <trulux> fabbione: just a deja-vu
[01:56] <trulux> fabbione: sorry
[01:56] <fabbione> :)
[01:56] <trulux> Now I feel really screwed up :(
[01:56] <trulux> wtf... deja-vu, definitely
[01:59] <trulux> daniels: I will write up on my wiki on the PSC thing, it works for me though we need to make cups being restart before printing while using hpijs
[01:59] <daniels> yes, I told you that
[01:59] <trulux> daniels: if we get that working, then we will have out of the box support for this PSC things
[01:59] <doko> \sh, python-qt3 is done
[01:59] <trulux> yup, just tested and worked a bit on it
[02:00] <\sh> doko: saw it...but pykde will be patched badly now ;)
[02:00] <trulux> daniels: how do you think we should do it? either using a helper binary/script or ...?
[02:02] <pitti> trulux: I don't see a recent commit to http://cvs.tuxedo-es.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/vsecurity/
[02:02] <trulux> pitti: see inside include and src dirs
[02:03] <pitti> trulux: oh, I do, sorry
[02:03] <trulux> pitti: np/nw
[02:05] <pitti> seb128: $%&$, c-c builds find on my machine...
[02:05] <seb128> it doesn't on mine
[02:05] <pitti> uh
[02:07] <pitti> trulux: argh, if you already have a KERNEL_DIR variable, can you please use it in the vsec target?
[02:08] <trulux> pitti: sure
[02:08] <pitti> trulux: you still didn't fix the spin_lock issue
[02:08] <trulux> pitti: stupid error
[02:08] <trulux> mmm, it doesn't complain here
[02:09] <trulux> with your .config
[02:09] <trulux> and -rc5
[02:09] <pitti> trulux: there is no cvs commit for vsec_acl.c
[02:11] <pitti> trulux: did you change the spin_lock args to a pointer?
[02:11] <seb128> pitti: I can have a look on the g-c-c build issue if you want
[02:11] <pitti> seb128: if you can reproduce it, that woudl rock. it just works(tm) for me...
[02:11] <trulux> pitti: nope, it doesn't complain here
[02:11] <trulux> really
[02:12] <seb128> pitti: k, I'll have a look
[02:12] <pitti> trulux: I did apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.12-1 and built with them
[02:12] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[02:13] <seb128> np
[02:14] <pitti> trulux: WTH did you do then? :-) You are sure that you did not modify vsec_acl.c locally?
[02:14] <trulux> pitti: it's rc4 that? then it might be missing a few committs or I'm totally screwed up and missed all
[02:14] <trulux> pitti: hahaha, I was on 4 Red Bulls, blood flowing like fire, I have dunno. it was dymb fast
[02:15] <trulux> lemme check
[02:15] <pitti> trulux: 
[02:15] <pitti> /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-1/include/linux/spinlock.h
[02:15] <pitti> void __lockfunc _spin_lock(spinlock_t *lock)    __acquires(spinlock_t);
[02:15] <pitti> trulux: -> it takes a pointer
[02:16] <pitti> trulux: in vsec_acl.c:
[02:16] <pitti>                 spin_lock(vsec_##WHICH##_##TYPE##_lock);                \
[02:16] <pitti> extern spinlock_t vsec_allsocket_uid_lock;
[02:16] <zul> is xorg for breezy relatively safe now?
[02:16] <pitti> ^ in vsec_acl.h
[02:22] <seb128> pitti: what does "pkg-config --libs esound" returns for you?
[02:22] <pitti> $ pkg-config --libs esound
[02:22] <pitti> -lesd -laudiofile -lm
[02:22] <seb128> k, so that's not that
[02:23] <pitti> seb128: shall I send you my build log for comparison?
[02:23] <seb128> yes please
[02:23] <pitti> I just rebuilt from scratch with "debuild -us -uc -b"
[02:23] <trulux> pitti: is it complaining to you? I will check here
[02:23] <seb128> the config.log too if possible :)
[02:23] <trulux> just gimme one sec
[02:24] <pitti> seb128: both on p.u.c/~pitti now
[02:24] <seb128> thanks
[02:26] <seb128> hum
[02:26] <pitti> trulux: odd that you have a different spinlock.h (do you???)
[02:26] <seb128> -ALSA_CFLAGS=' '
[02:26] <seb128> +ALSA_CFLAGS='-I/usr/include/alsa  '
[02:26] <seb128> pitti: you have hacked your alsa somewhat?
[02:26] <pitti> seb128: odd, but still this should not provoke a linker error...
[02:27] <seb128> do you have the .build?
[02:27] <seb128> I've only found the config.log on your page
[02:27] <trulux> pitti: test this, (more for sanitizing and removing the idea of a screwed trulux with a screwed up mind because of the red cow crack dopping)
[02:27] <trulux> get vanilla 2.6.11
[02:28] <trulux> and apply -rc5
[02:29] <pitti> seb128: check again, please (sorry, my last scp was screwed somehow)
[02:29] <seb128> k, it's here now
[02:29] <seb128> thanks
[02:32] <seb128> where should we assign sparc bugs?
[02:32] <seb128> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11154
[02:34] <pitti> trulux: no idea, maybe it was changed in 2.6.11?
[02:36] <trulux> pitti: bbl, lunch time. test the rc5 please and tell me what you get. I'm sure there's something wrong *out* of vsec and vanilla
[02:37] <trulux> pitti: will committ the fix for the KERNEL_DIR thing though
[02:37] <pitti> trulux: I have rc5 here
[02:51] <seb128> pitti: are you didn't turn the LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed" from debian/rules?
[02:51] <seb128> pitti: the build lines are the same on both .build
[02:52] <seb128> ie: you don't -lasound
[02:53] <seb128> pitti: the build is easy to "fix", but I'm wondering why it builds for you
[03:07] <pitti> seb128: I didn't change debian/rules
[03:08] <pitti> seb128: I used the pristine source package from archive.u.c
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: my system is not completely up to date, though; just downloaded today's daily and wanted to reinstall
[03:09] <seb128> pitti: mine neither, but I don't think something changed around this
[03:09] <seb128> maybe your cdbs has some magic :)
[03:11] <seb128> fabbione: around?
[03:11] <fabbione> seb128: yeps
[03:11] <seb128> fabbione: about https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11154
[03:12] <fabbione> checking
[03:12] <fabbione> doh!
[03:12] <seb128> how know what's wrong?
[03:12] <fabbione> seb128: sparc didn't make it for hoary...
[03:12] <seb128> k
[03:13] <fabbione> just close the bug as "unsupported arch"
[03:13] <seb128> fine, thanks
[03:13] <fabbione> or port is in progress
[03:13] <fabbione> really
[03:13] <trulux> pitti: rc5 there? make sure you have this:
[03:13] <fabbione> seb128: also..
[03:13] <fabbione> well i will take care of it
[03:13] <seb128> feel free
[03:14] <trulux> pitti: KERNEL_DIR = /home/pitti/kernel/linux-2.6.12-rc5/
[03:14] <trulux> vsec: check
[03:14] <trulux> 	$(MAKE) -C /home/lorenzo/kernel/linux-2.6.12-rc5/ M=`pwd` modules
[03:14] <trulux> (to be fixed that target thing)
[03:15] <trulux> install:
[03:15] <trulux> 	$(MAKE) modules_install -C $(KERNEL_DIR) M=`pwd` MODLIB=/home/lorenzo/kernel/linux-2.6.12-rc5/security/
[03:15] <trulux> (set to your personal dir of course)
[03:15] <trulux> and be sure you compiled with your k7 config
[03:15] <trulux> it works here, and it should do there
[03:18] <fabbione> seb128: thanks... done :)
[03:18] <seb128> thank you!
[03:20] <fabbione> no thanks to you
[03:20] <fabbione> it's nice to see there are sparc users around :)
[03:21] <fabbione> and the cool thing is that sparc was never announced 
[03:21] <fabbione> at all
[03:22] <CarlK> where is the proper place to post that the tracker at torrent.ubuntu.com:6969 is down?
[03:23] <pitti> hell, apt-get dist-upgrade wants to remove the *entire world*
[03:24] <Amaranth> CarlK: They already know.
[03:24] <jdub> pitti: that's what we meant by world domination - you didn't get that memo? :)
[03:24] <maswan> ah, if I only could name a package "the *entire world*" :)
[03:26] <CarlK> Amaranth - that doesn't answer my question ;)
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: "GetRidOfTheDesktop" in action?
[03:27] <Amaranth> CarlK: I'd suppose you'd file a bug report.
[03:28] <pitti> seb128:  debian/patches/23_default_soundcard_selector.patch -> thanks
[03:28] <pitti> seb128: what was wrong?
[03:28] <seb128> dunno why it works for you
[03:28] <pitti> seb128: no, it even removed dbs and build-essential, that goes too far
[03:28] <seb128> it links with libasound without using -lasound
[03:28] <pitti> seb128: what did you fix?
[03:28] <seb128> -gnome_sound_properties_LDFLAGS =
[03:29] <seb128> +gnome_sound_properties_LDFLAGS = -lasound
[03:29] <pitti> seb128: I have seen that, probably a library on my system still depended on asound, but the newest version doesn't any more (or whatever)
[03:29] <pitti> ah, cool :)
[03:31] <trulux> pitti: I will try to see what's wrong with the ubuntu sources
[03:32] <trulux> pitti: coulkd you send me an url to a rafb paste of the compilation errors, please?
[03:32] <pitti> trulux: I don't get it, your spinlock.h really has a non-pointer argument?
[03:34] <pitti> trulux: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/MdgODf87.html
[03:36] <trulux> pitti: I will paste the relevant code of my spinlock code
[03:38] <Kamion> elmo: please sync libdebian-installer from unstable, overriding Ubuntu changes
[03:42] <trulux> pitti: http://rafb.net/paste/results/FjsHy288.html
[03:42] <trulux> pitti: void __lockfunc _spin_lock(spinlock_t *lock)    __acquires(spinlock_t);
[03:43] <doko> Riddell, amu: please fix kdebase, it's currently FTBFS, before uploading other KDE packages ...
[03:44] <pitti> trulux: yes, that's a spinlock_t *pointer*
[03:44] <trulux> pitti: right
[03:44] <trulux> pitti: strange
[03:45] <pitti> strange ideed...
[03:45] <pitti> $ sudo ls
[03:45] <pitti> sudo: pam_authenticate: Module is unknown
[03:46] <pitti> HEEELP! gtk bug...
[03:46] <bob2> hahaha
[03:48] <pitti> bah
[03:48] <ogra> pitti, root is evil :) 
[03:48] <seb128> why? r00t is useless :p
[03:48] <ogra> your system knows that
[03:49] <trulux> pitti: SAK! SAK! SAK! DAMN SAK!
[03:49] <trulux> :)
[03:53] <bob2> so, once I edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to reenable ht, how do update grub?
[03:54] <bob2> grub-install /dev/sda?
[03:54] <Treenaks> bob2: no. just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[03:54] <Treenaks> bob2: and reboot
[03:54] <bob2> ohm pimp
[03:54] <bob2> Treenaks: thanks
[04:02] <jdub> seb128: ping
[04:05] <pitti> bah, I love you all
[04:05] <trulux> pitti: heya :)
[04:06] <pitti> destroyed pam configuration, destroyed x.org, no gnome-terminal any mre...
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: it's there :-) no command line any more 
[04:07] <trulux> pitti: *shrug*
[04:07] <seb128> jdub: pong
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: ah ah
[04:08] <jdub> seb128: n/m
[04:09] <seb128> jdub: just say it since you wake me up !!! :p
[04:09] <Kamion> pitti: what on earth did you do?
[04:09] <pitti> Kamion: apt-get dist-upgrade
[04:09] <jdub> seb128: ha ha
[04:09] <Kamion> d'oh
[04:10] <pitti> Kamion: then I stopped when I saw that it removed essential parts of my system
[04:10] <pitti> Kamion: I did not see that it removed cracklib, so my pam configuration was screwed; and due to some xorg pacakge updates my xorg conf got screwed
[04:11] <pitti> jdub: I just want my xorg unbroken again, to get my Ctrl key back
[04:12] <jdub> rhm
[04:12] <jdub> the "use hoary" line won't work on you ;)
[04:12] <Treenaks> pitti: how about your Strg key? :P
[04:12] <pitti> Treenaks: it's broken in all gtk apps, but works in firefox
[04:13] <daniels> pitti: xorg works just fine
[04:13] <daniels> pitti: make sure /usr/lib/X11/Xkb is a symlink to /etc/X11/xkb
[04:13] <daniels> er, /usr/lib/X11/xkb
[04:13] <daniels> no capital X in xkb
[04:13] <pitti> daniels: I already tried that once and it didn't change anything
[04:14] <daniels> pitti: try putting symlinks to /usr/X11R6/bin/xkbcomp and /usr/X11R6/bin/setxkbmap in /usr/bin
[04:14] <pitti> sudo: pam_authenticate: Module is unknown
[04:14] <pitti> argh, I tried I *just* fixed that  *grrr*
[04:14] <pitti> daniels: sorry, pam is again broken, and this time it isn't cracklib
[04:15] <pitti> will try later
[04:16] <Amaranth> /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg -> ../../X11R6/bin/Xorg *cough*
[04:16] <daniels> yeah yeah, known issue
[04:16] <Amaranth> is there a known fix? :)
[04:16] <crimsun> yep, man ln
[04:17] <jdub> let's sing a song!
[04:17] <Treenaks> jdub: well, start one!
[04:17] <Amaranth> crimsun: i know how to symlink, i need to know what to link to
[04:17] <jdub> o/~ when trademarks get you down, and all the good names are gone, do the only thing you can, ... pwgen! o/~
[04:17] <crimsun> Amaranth: it was tongue-in-cheek
[04:18] <daniels> Amaranth: rm /usr/bin/X11 && mkdir /usr/bin/X11 && apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg
[04:19] <Amaranth> daniels: so this is my fault? for making the /usr/bin/X11 symlink before the upgrade, i mean
[04:20] <eruin> archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/r/readahead/readahead_1.0.1-2ubuntu1_i386.deb 404 Not Found
[04:20] <eruin> is anyone aware of this?
[04:20] <daniels> Amaranth: uh, you made it a symlink?
[04:20] <Kamion> eruin: yes, it'll get fixed next time somebody runs hilarie on the archive
[04:20] <eruin> kk ;)
[04:20] <bob2> eruin: known problem
[04:20] <Kamion> 12:20 < Kamion> elmo: is hilarie safe to run, to fix up cross-component symlinks? (libconvert-binhex-perl)
[04:21] <daniels> Amaranth: (if your answer is 'yes', my answer is 'both pieces')
[04:21] <Kamion> I don't really feel like running random archive scripts that I found by grep without checking first. :-)
[04:21] <Kamion> because elmo knows where I live
[04:21] <daniels> Kamion: it's probably for the best
[04:21] <daniels> in terms of archive sanctity and your wellbeing
[04:22] <Am|NickTaken> whew, good thing that fix worked
[04:23] <Am|NickTaken> started gdmflexiserver and my system locked hard :/
[04:23] <daniels> xorg is never broken
[04:23] <daniels> sometimes it just behaves unexpectedly
[04:23] <Am|NickTaken> heh
[04:23] <Treenaks> daniels: it is the world that's broken?
[04:23] <crimsun> no, just users.
[04:23] <Am|NickTaken> so was the breakage my fault for making that symlink?
[04:23] <daniels> no, not even users
[04:23] <daniels> just
[04:23] <daniels>  expectations :)
[04:23] <crimsun> :)
[04:23] <Am|NickTaken> btw, can you repeat the xkb fix?
[04:23] <daniels> amapretty much, yeah
[04:24] <daniels> Am|NickTaken: 15:13 < daniels> pitti: make sure /usr/lib/X11/Xkb is a symlink to /etc/X11/xkb
[04:24] <daniels> 15:13 < daniels> er, /usr/lib/X11/xkb
[04:24] <daniels> 15:14 < daniels> pitti: try putting symlinks to /usr/X11R6/bin/xkbcomp and /usr/X11R6/bin/setxkbmap in /usr/bin
[04:24] <daniels> 15:13 < daniels> no capital X in xkb
[04:24] <daniels> or /usr/bin/X11 if /usr/bin is no good
[04:26] <Amaranth> ok, did all those, brbr
[04:26] <Amaranth> -r
[04:27] <siretart> elmo: please sync pinfo from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes
[04:28] <Amaranth> damn, no luck
[04:28] <Amaranth> oh well, thanks anyway daniels 
[04:28] <Amaranth> i can live with brokenness, i need GNOME 2.11.x
[04:29] <Kamion> ... ok, WTF just beeped at me
[04:29] <Kamion> I hate it when that happens
[04:29] <Amaranth> wtf, gnome-panel 2.11 removed the run application entry from the menu
[04:29] <pitti> SNAFU
[04:30] <Amaranth> i thought they were joking :/
[04:32] <ogra> why should they
[04:32] <ogra> ?
[04:42] <doko> Kamion, elmo: gnome-menus depend on python-gmenu, (universe->main), same for g77-3.4-doc, which may be obvious as well
[05:11] <Kamion> doko: python-gmenu and g77-3.4-doc done
[05:11] <Kamion> elmo: ^--
[05:16] <ddaa> seb128: what is the relation between imlib and png2?
[05:17] <ddaa> seb128: the various imlib packages in ubuntu come from a source package called "imlib+png2", as opposed to some deprecated packages that come from a source package called "imlib".
[05:18] <ddaa> and the info files for both point to the same cvs module
[05:19] <Mithrandir> ddaa: they're linked with different png versions, which is needed because that old libpng didn't have symbol versioning so it all blew up if you linked an application with an incompatible imlib and libpng.
[05:19] <ddaa> Mithrandir: is that purely a packaging difference? i.e should HCT use the same upstream CVS data for both?
[05:20] <Mithrandir> ddaa: I think it is, yes.
[05:20] <Mithrandir> ddaa: you might want to verify with seb128 to be sure, though
[05:20] <ddaa> seb128: beer?
[05:25] <ddaa> okay... the orig tarball is the same
[05:25] <Treenaks> ogra: why?
[05:26] <ogra> because they made a mess of the code to pevent anyone to hange logos and the like
[05:26] <\sh> I hate this naming convention
[05:26] <ogra> change even
[05:26] <\sh> python2.4-sip4-qt3
[05:26] <\sh> but only python-kde3
[05:26] <\sh> *grmpf*
[05:27] <ddaa> \sh: suggest changing it python2.4-sip-bong4-qt3
[05:27] <\sh> hehe
[05:27] <ogra> Treenaks, Jamie tries all to make it impossible to change anything (and even mentions that in the file headers)
[05:28] <ogra> he thinks its a copyright violation if you change the logo of the lock screen according to the file header text's
[05:28] <Treenaks> ogra: uhh...
[05:28] <Treenaks> I knew he's weird.. but this weird
[05:29] <ogra> which is just nonsense, but i'll have to rewrite at least 3 complete files to get my patch back in which is just silly regarding that the patch will die anyway
[05:30] <seb128> ddaa: imlib+png2 is imlib built with libpng2
[05:31] <ddaa> seb128: thanks. I just diffed the orig tarballs, they are identical
[05:31] <seb128> np
[05:31] <ddaa> so, as far as I am concerned, they are the same thing
[05:31] <seb128> they are
[05:31] <seb128> for upstream
[05:31] <ddaa> the way orig tarballs are built is not totally clear to me
[05:31] <\sh> Riddell: kdebase 3.4 is ok for using?
[05:32] <ddaa> I could have imagined that the orig tarball of one included the checkouts from two cvs modules, or some other crack.
[05:32] <Kamion> ddaa: generally they are copied from upstream and renamed
[05:32] <bob2> yay
[05:32] <ogra>    change the logo that xscreensaver displays on the splash screen and
[05:32] <ogra>    password dialog, please don't.  The logo is xscreensaver's identity.
[05:32] <ogra>    You wouldn't alter the name or copyright notice on a program that
[05:32] <ogra>    you didn't write; please don't alter its logo either.
[05:32] <ogra>  */
[05:32] <Kamion> ddaa: sometimes the maintainer constructs them by hand for other reasons
[05:32] <bob2> the mplayer homepage has two levels of anti-software-patent-rants now
[05:32] <ogra> GRRRR
[05:32] <bob2> ogra: jwz?
[05:32] <ddaa> bob2: make a donation to the FFII :)
[05:32] <Kamion> ddaa: for example, sometimes the tarball as shipped by upstream contains non-free material, which must be removed first
[05:32] <ogra> yep
[05:33] <Lathiat> gotta love jwz
[05:34] <ddaa> Kamion: that's interesting. But this particular case is of no concern to me, it's up to HCT to find the right connection.
[05:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: we should just rewrite xscreensaver, then
[05:34] <ogra> why would someone want to make the uglyness his identity ??
[05:34] <ogra> Mithrandir, jdub's project ;)
[05:34] <ddaa> Kamion: well, it's of no concern to my job, I find that interesting, personnaly.
[05:34] <jdub> ogra: oi!
[05:34] <ogra> *g*
[05:34] <Riddell> \sh: 3.4.1-0ubuntu0pre3 is, doesn't seem to be in the archives yet for i386
[05:35] <ddaa> jdub: oi? http://www.dropkickthefaint.com/
[05:40] <ddaa> jdub: "oi!" sounds like a punk thing to me
[05:40] <Treenaks> or dwarves
[05:41] <ddaa> besides, I just find this game fun :P
[05:43] <Amaranth> "oi!" is an aussie thing :P
[05:43] <Amaranth> or at least a non-midwest-US thing
[05:45] <ogra> oi! is also what the german skinheads use greet each other....
[05:47] <jbailey> Aussies did it in the battery commercials they showed in .ca in the mid-80's.
[05:47] <jbailey> I saw it on TV, it must be true...
[05:47] <ogra> heh
[05:48] <zul> heh...i thought the site was something on the drop kick murphys
[05:48] <ddaa> ogra: actually "oi" is not limited to skinheads... it's rather that skinhead are the most infamous offshot of that movement.
[05:48] <omie> oi is a classification of music as well
[05:48] <ogra> ddaa, yep, i also heard punks using it here....
[05:49] <omie> ogra: oi is like rowdy drinking punk music
[05:49] <pitti> thom: can I please have gcj and gobjc in concordia's hoay-i386 dchroot
[05:49] <pitti> ?
[05:50] <thom> pitti: done
[05:50] <pitti> great, thanks
[05:52] <bob2> hahaha
[05:52] <bob2> mplayer compiles itself with -O4
[05:53] <pitti> so what?
[05:53] <bob2> gcc doesn't know about anything above -O3
[05:54] <pitti> yeah, but other compilers might
[05:54] <\sh> gentlemen, what about python2.3 backward compatiblity? are we able to drop python2.3?
[05:54] <Kamion> not worth it yet
[05:55] <\sh> asking only, cause I want to drop it from python-qt3
[05:55] <Kamion> oh, individual modules, not everything? I imagine so
[05:57] <\sh> imagine != knowing ;) so I'm leaving it right now until further knowledge :) 
[05:57] <Kamion> depends how much you desperately enjoy merging changes from Debian
[05:59] <\sh> ah doko replaced python-qt3 already
[06:01] <doko> Kamion: could you tell me, what you will need for the CD as installable?
[06:01] <Kamion> doko: ubuntu-desktop
[06:02] <ddaa> Riddell: it looks like the kdelibs source package comes from CVS
[06:02] <Kamion> unfortunately I can't easily produce a list of just the problems descending from that
[06:02] <Riddell> ddaa: why?
[06:02] <ddaa> Riddell: is there a particular reason why? KDE devel appears to be conducted on SVN now.
[06:02] <doko> Kamion, hmm, ok
[06:02] <ddaa> Riddell: why do it appear so, or why am I asking?
[06:02] <Riddell> ddaa: in which way does it appear to come from CVS?
[06:03] <ddaa> there's a "CVS" directory in it.
[06:03] <ddaa> and a .cvsignore file
[06:03] <Kamion> doko: totem looks like the obvious one, plus various amd64-specific problems
[06:04] <doko> Kamion, yes depending on what seb128 finds out, I'm going to build it with g++-3.4
[06:04] <Kamion> 'k
[06:04] <seb128> what?
[06:04] <ddaa> Riddell: and I'm trying to figure whether we should import CVS or SVN. I'd say SVN because that's where upstream makes love, and CVS because that's what appears to be used by the source package. So I'm want to clear up the confusion with you.
[06:04] <doko> seb128; you have (bugzilla-)mail
[06:04] <seb128> k
[06:05] <seb128> I'm looking on a totem build log atm
[06:05] <seb128> edd: Package debhelper has no installation candidate
[06:05] <Riddell> ddaa: which version are you looking at and where's the CVS directory?
[06:05] <seb128> s/edd/E (completion..)
[06:05] <seb128> WTF
[06:05] <ddaa> Riddell: I'm looking at kdelibs-3.4.0
[06:05] <Riddell> ddaa: that would have been made when KDE still used CVS
[06:05] <\sh> Suggests: python2.4-qt3-gl, python-qt3-doc, libqt3c102-mt-mysql | libqt3c102-mt-odbc | libqt3c102-mt-psql
[06:05] <\sh> doko: python-qt3 
[06:05] <ddaa> Riddell: according to the info file, the cvs repo is at :pserver:anonymous@anoncvs.kde.org:/home/kde
[06:06] <ddaa> and there is also http://webcvs.kde.org/kdelibs/
[06:06] <\sh> doko: liqt3c102-* should be replaced ;)
[06:07] <\sh> and depends is also mixed up
[06:07] <Riddell> ddaa: webcvs is for historical use only, websvn is there now
[06:07] <Riddell> ddaa: definatly import from SVN
[06:07] <ddaa> may I quote you?
[06:07] <Riddell> ddaa: what are importing in to?
[06:07] <ddaa> arch.ubuntu.com
[06:07] <doko> \sh: fix it, it goes to universe ;-)
[06:07] <ddaa> that's providing raw data for HCT
[06:08] <Riddell> ddaa: yep, KDE cvs is dead, use SVN
[06:08] <\sh> doko: yeah..working on it...but u have to upload, until I'm recognized ;)
[06:09] <ddaa> Riddell: cool, thanks.
[06:09] <\sh> argl....
[06:09] <doko> \sh, can you upload to universe?
[06:09] <\sh> doko: right now? no, cause elmo didn't include siretats and my key ;)
[06:10] <Riddell> ddaa: the change to subversion is quite recent so there will be remenents of CVS usage around, but you can ignore them
[06:10] <\sh> doko: but approved we are ;)
[06:10] <\sh> do we have an emacs without X deps?
[06:10] <\sh> ah nox
[06:13] <Riddell> emacs21-nox is the goodness
[06:13] <bob2> hm, no sound, even after unmuting everything
[06:14] <ddaa> bob2: what is it you are trying to do?
[06:14] <Amaranth> bob2: after the gnome-media upgrade?
[06:14] <bob2> Amaranth: just a new hoary install
[06:14] <Amaranth> oh
[06:14] <bob2> ddaa: listen to music :p
[06:14] <bob2> drivers seem to be loaded and such
[06:15] <ddaa> bob2: curiously, rhythmbox seems to dislike esd on my system. Maybe that's the problem with you too. pkill esd.
[06:15] <Amaranth> yeah, rhythmbox didn't want to work until i set gstreamer to use alsa
[06:15] <ddaa> I leave it to the distro guy to find a real fix.
[06:15] <mdke> worth filing a bug tho
[06:15] <ddaa> Amaranth: haaaa... that must be it :)
[06:15] <bob2> ddaa: smarty pants
[06:16] <Amaranth> pkill esd is the wrong way to do it though
[06:17] <Amaranth> System->Preferences->Sound and uncheck enable sound server startup
[06:17] <ddaa> Amaranth: yes, but then some good love is lost, like the gaim siren
[06:18] <Amaranth> gaim doesn't use gstreamer?
[06:18] <ddaa> just fixing my "Multimedia Systems Selector" setting, I fucked with it when I tried to make skype work.
[06:18] <Amaranth> and/or oss/alsa?
[06:18] <bob2> well, that's just silly, it plays sounds out of the internal speaker instead of the decent ones I plugged in
[06:19] <ddaa> Amaranth: all I know is it makes no sound if esd is not here, even though gstreamer was configured for oss.
[06:19] <Amaranth> bob2: You can set that in System->Preferences->Sound too
[06:19] <ddaa> but then I'm definitely not familiar with gnome things, so do not pay too much attention to what I say.
[06:19] <Amaranth> or not
[06:19] <Amaranth> that's for a sound card
[06:20] <Amaranth> unless your laptop runs a seperate sound card for the speakers...
[06:20] <bob2> Amaranth: eh? this is pcm stuff, not beeps.
[06:20] <Amaranth> otherwise your laptop is broken
[06:20] <bob2> not a laptop
[06:20] <Amaranth> err
[06:20] <Amaranth> it has an internal speaker that does more than beeps and it isn't a laptop?
[06:21] <bob2> yes
[06:21] <Amaranth> scary
[06:21] <ddaa> bob2: btw, you are welcome to proceed with kdelibs, from SVN, in case you missed the talk with Riddell :)
[06:22] <Amaranth> hrm, rhythmbox doesn't seem to like to swamp me with debug output anymore
[06:22] <Amaranth> oh, they changed it to -d
[06:23] <ddaa> bob2: and you are welcome to put gnome-desktop in your queue and out of the ArchImportCandidates page, since I approved it.
[06:23] <ddaa> (I did so yesterday, when you asked)
[06:24] <Riddell> ddaa: do you know anything about a timeframe for grumpy groundhog?
[06:24] <ddaa> hell no
[06:25] <ddaa> I'm just a bazaar/launchpad person.
[06:26] <Riddell> fair enough
[06:26] <ddaa> but from what I know of the management style of the company, it's probably slightly shorter of humanly doable.
[06:31] <mdz> morning
[06:32] <Simira> morning, mdke 
[06:32] <Simira> uhm
[06:32] <Simira> morning, mdz
[06:32] <ogra> hey mdz 
[06:32] <Simira> *sigh*
[06:32] <Simira> :)
[06:33] <Mithrandir> :P
[06:33] <Amaranth> err, that's a lot of comforting
[06:33] <Simira> easy now, boy
[06:33] <thom> morning mdz
[06:33] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[06:33] <Simira> Mithrandir: please keep to the laundry hangup ;)
[06:38] <jdub> ha ha
[06:38] <jdub>  openoffice.org (1.1.3-8ubuntu5) breezy; urgency=low
[06:38] <jdub>  .
[06:38] <jdub>    * Work around xorg reorganisation.
[06:38] <jdub> 
[06:38] <jdub> SUMO PACKAGE BATTLE!
[06:38] <jdub> openoffice.org dodges!
[06:39] <Mithrandir> I wonder how ooo is going to work around the "hah, stlport is now built with gcc4!" thign
[06:39] <Mithrandir> thing, even.
[06:41] <mdz> Mithrandir: does oo.o not build with g++-4.0 yet?
[06:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: unsure, but I would be surprised if it did.
[06:59] <ddaa> Riddell: do you wish to become the owner of kde on launchpad?
[07:00] <ddaa> Riddell: well, first you'd need an account on launchpad
[07:04] <Riddell> ddaa: I'd be up for that
[07:05] <ddaa> Riddell: cannot give you ownership if you do not have an account :(
[07:05] <ddaa> s/:(/:)/
[07:05] <Riddell> ddaa: my account is jr@jriddell.org
[07:06] <ogra> Riddell, i guess he means chinstrap etc
[07:06] <ddaa> ogra: no, I mean launchpad
[07:07] <ddaa> kde project is yours
[07:07] <Riddell> launchpad isn't chinstrap
[07:07] <ogra> ddaa, oh, they are not the same...
[07:07] <Riddell> oh boy, I own KDE.  what does that give me?
[07:07] <Riddell> lots of malone reports I suspect
[07:07] <\sh> Riddell: master of kde?
[07:07] <ogra> Riddell, a lot responsibilitys :)
[07:07] <zul> certain death
[07:07] <ddaa> no idea, but it gave me low-level irritation to see keybuk owning it :)
[07:08] <ddaa> kdelibs is yours
[07:08] <\sh> i will write a mail to kde governance; hey, guys, u r obsolete, jriddell took over kde from this day...he will rule you now ;)
[07:08] <Riddell> my power grows
[07:08] <ddaa> kdepim is yours
[07:08] <Riddell> I own your kontact
[07:09] <ddaa> Riddell: now, if a KDE guy comes in and throws a fit because you show as the "lead maintainer" of KDE, it's your problem :P
[07:09] <\sh> ahh..my kontact disobeyed my orders now
[07:13] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[07:19] <\sh> doko: ping eling
[07:40] <ddaa> Kamion: when can I find general information (for project/product descriptions) for the various partman components?
[07:40] <ddaa> * where can I find
[07:42] <Kamion> ddaa: debian/control in each
[07:43] <Kamion> they should all be part of the d-i project (or di, or whatever it's wrongly called in launchpad :-P)
[07:44] <Kamion> di
[07:44] <Kamion> (bah, there's another program called di; have fun resolving that)
[07:44] <ddaa> you like d-i or di?
[07:44] <Kamion> it's called d-i
[07:44] <ddaa> Kamion: the best way to have it named your way is to create the projects products
[07:44] <Kamion> but di is already registered and approved in launchpad
[07:45] <Kamion> I was told it had to be that
[07:45] <Kamion> dude, imports aren't my job :-)
[07:46] <ddaa> then we'll name the projects and product in any random way that suit your fancy and you won't complain
[07:46] <Kamion> heh
[07:46] <ddaa> That suits _our_ fancy
[07:46] <ddaa> I so consider that creating those description are not our job either. Everybody is getting away with creating products without descriptions except us, and we are the least qualified to do it.
[07:47] <ddaa> Kamion: yeah, it's not exactly trivial to figure that out in the general case
[07:47] <Kamion> FWIW, in the case of everything in d-i, the upstream name of the product == the source package name
[07:48] <Kamion> by definition
[07:48] <ddaa> yeah, I'm getting the point. It's all debian native.
[07:48] <Kamion> *nod*
[07:48] <ddaa> I see no reason why it has to be called di
[07:48] <Kamion> IIRC hyphens in project names didn't work at the time, or something
[07:49] <ddaa> Yeah, various launchpad policies driving everybody crazy
[07:50] <ddaa> Kamion: it's now https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/d-i
[07:50] <ddaa> if you tell me your launchpad user name, I could make you the owner, too
[07:56] <Kamion> ddaa: cool, thanks! colin.watson@canonical.com
[07:57] <ddaa> Kamion: FYI your launchpad user name is "name91" you might want to fix that :)
[07:58] <Kamion> ddaa: heh. how?
[07:58] <ogra> huh, its not simply colin like for the other users ?
[07:59] <Kamion> ogra: mine was created pretty early
[07:59] <\sh> hmm
[07:59] <ogra> ah
[07:59] <\sh> who changed the CSS of malone? ,-)
[07:59] <ddaa> Kamion: no idea how :)
[07:59] <\sh> its breaking the width of 1024 
[08:00] <\sh> ;)
[08:01] <\sh> and its breaking firefox
[08:02] <\sh> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/739 there is a lot of data inside...and right now it crashed my ff
[08:03] <ddaa> Kamion: you should probably ask stub
[08:06] <Kamion> ok, will do next time I see him
[08:06] <Kamion> ta
[08:06] <ddaa> Kamion: also, is that on svn://svn.d-i.alioth.debian.org/d-i/trunk... or in svn://svn.debian.org/d-i/trunk... ?
[08:09] <Kamion> ddaa: they're the same thing - I happen to use the latter
[08:10] <Kamion> svn.d-i.alioth.debian.org was used for a bit when svn.debian.org's DNS was broken
[08:10] <Kamion> ddaa: our current documentation says the former
[08:10] <ddaa> Kamion: the website seems to say the latter
[08:10] <ddaa> my guess is the documentation is out of date
[08:10] <Kamion> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/svn
[08:11] <Kamion> may depend where you look
[08:11] <ddaa> http://svn.debian.org
[08:11] <Kamion> well, I don't really mind
[08:12] <ddaa> it does not matter, just in case they were different
[08:12] <ddaa> or one of the two were obsolete
[08:12] <mdke> buona sera thesaltydog 
[08:14] <thesaltydog> mdke, mom arrivo subito
[08:14] <mdke> hi
[08:15] <Kamion> aha
[08:17] <Kamion> an IP address where the firewall is configured to DROP all packets to the outside world is sufficient
[08:17] <mdz> Kamion: free for a call?
[08:17] <fabbione> hey guys
[08:17] <fabbione> morning mdz
[08:17] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[08:17] <Kamion> mdz: yes, one sec, getting something to drink
[08:20] <Kamion> mdz: ready
[08:25] <ddaa> Kamion: thanks for your help
[09:19] <mdz> does anyone know enough about XSLT to know where to look for a bug where xmlto (or presumably one of its dependencies) writes the wrong output filename for a man page/refentry?
[09:19] <mdz> it's a maze of twisty programs, all alike
[09:24] <jbailey> mdz: I did at one point like 5 years ago, if you can't find a better candidate.
[09:25] <mdz> jbailey: I have an XML man page with <refentry lang="fr">, but "xmlto man" writes out foo.8 rather than foo.fr.8
[09:31] <jbailey> mdz: I'll have to look at it to even make a guess.  I ran screaming from XSLT after developing a classifieds web site that was driven by it.
[09:35] <KaiL_> daniels: you are hunting totally outdated documentation in the X-Server stuff?
[09:36] <KaiL_> /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg/README.i810 is from 2000 :)
[09:38] <jbailey> mdz: I'm following these folks who have initrd troubles from the glibc update.  The fix to make initrd-tools cope with the new output from ldd is quite small and backwards compatible (It's in Debian already).  Can I do up a version for hoary-updates?  Justification is largely smoother upgrades for people moving to breezy.  It shouldn't matter for release since we'll be able to just depend on the initramfs st
[09:38] <jbailey> uff, but otherwise Keybuk&Kamion feel that conflicts handling is a bit fragile for what we need.
[09:40] <mdz> jbailey: I'd much rather add the necessary versioned depends/conflicts to breezy
[09:40] <mdz> so that initrd-tools gets upgraded if necessary
[09:40] <mdz> e.g., have the breezy linux-images depend on initrd-tools (>= foo)
[09:41] <mdz> if it were some package other than libc6, I'd recommend a versioned conflicts with the old initrd-tools, but a versioned conflict on an essential package sounds nasty for problem resolution
[09:42] <jbailey> mdz: The problem isn't that people have pulled in a new kernel - it's usually that they've pulled something other, like gdm from the new breezy in.  It pulls in the new glibc.  Then they got the security update from hoary-sec which caused the old initrd-tools to break.
[09:42] <jbailey> mdz: The change to the initrd-tools is a 3 line sed difference.
[09:43] <doko> seb128: totem-gstreamer depends on gstreamer0.8-mad, libmad was multiverse?
[09:44] <Mithrandir> thom: did you get anywhere with a gcc-3.4-compiled firefox?
[09:44] <ogra> doko, ouch
[09:50] <Kamion> mdz: given that apt's http method uses non-blocking connect(), is there any reason that it can't connect() to every host in an IP rotation and use the first that succeeds, rather than connecting to each one and waiting for the timeout before it fails?
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz: (or would that be too much of a load on rotated hosts? it's just a connect ...)
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz: this is one of the factors that get multiplied together to make the delay in #8265 so enormous
[09:55] <mdz> jbailey: a versioned conflicts on libc6 is the correct solution, all things being equal, but I'm really not sure what that would do to us
[09:56] <mdz> Kamion: it's a bit rude TCP-wise to connect to all of them and then RST all but one
[09:57] <mdz> Kamion: is that really the cause of #8265?
[09:57] <mdz> I didn't think we had more than 2 IPs for any mirror
[09:58] <Kamion> it's not the fundamental cause, it's just one of the pieces
[09:59] <Kamion> basically, for each repository, we wait Acquire::http::TimeOut * number of IPs * (Releases, main/Packages.bz2, main/Packages, restricted/Packages.bz2, restricted/Packages)
[10:00] <Kamion> since Acquire::http::Timeout is 120 by default, that's a lot - but if I decrease it far enough for the delay to be acceptable, it'll be too small for even reasonable network delays
[10:01] <jbailey> mdz: Do you want me to add xmlto to my to-look-at queue?
[10:01] <Kamion> so I could get it down from ~40 minutes to (say) 1 minute and 40 seconds for a ten-second timeout, but that's still too long
[10:02] <Kamion> anyway, I'm being called for dinner, will have to revisit this tomorrow
[10:03] <Kamion> it would be nice if apt could spot that it had timed out on Release, and not bother with the others
[10:03] <\sh> paralell
[10:04] <Kamion> that's also a bit rude
[10:04] <\sh> well...not at all, if it's implemented the correct way
[10:04] <Kamion> that would spawn five processes on mirrors running apache
[10:05] <Kamion> seeing as the number of concurrent connections is generally the limiting factor on the performance of an apache server ...
[10:05] <\sh> Kamion: mirror1: release mirror2: packages mirror3: restricted
[10:05] <Kamion> \sh: too easy to get out of sync
[10:05] <Kamion> there's no reason it can't remember that it timed out, and stop
[10:06] <\sh> u have to rotate internally...we used it at lycos :) 
[10:06] <Kamion> we already have mirror desync problems
[10:06] <seb128> doko: ups, merge bug, I'll fix it
[10:07] <\sh> Kamion: hmmm...
[10:07] <\sh> Kamion: push instead of "let them pull"
[10:07] <\sh> when you're not doing it already
[10:09] <Kamion> \sh: dude, we already do - and with a 30-minute mirror pulse cycle, our *internal mirrors* get out of sync
[10:09] <Kamion> the ones in the datacentre on gigabit pipes to each other
[10:09] <Kamion> it's usually not for very long, but users notice it
[10:11] <\sh> Kamion: do u have a logical map of how your internal mirrors are connected, SANs and NAS such things?
[10:11] <Kamion> I'm not one of our sysadmins
[10:11] <\sh> I would like to see, who the connections are made, and the storage is done.
[10:11] <Kamion> I still think you're attempting to optimise the wrong thing though :)
[10:12] <\sh> Kamion: no :) some problems are occuring every time :) but they can be easily solved with some add. hardware or different links or changed software :)
[10:13] <Kamion> \sh: no, a hardware change would help, but not in the way I want
[10:13] <Kamion> anyway, gone
[10:13] <\sh> Kamion: or how do u think, a portal site is running...500 frontends completly in sync behind 5 load balancer etc :)
[10:14] <\sh> not to forget the backend...which is easier to break ;)
[10:14] <Kamion> that's not the point, apt *doesn't need* to check the subsequent files
[10:17] <mdz> Kamion: that should be fixable, talk to mvo
[10:20] <Nafallo> JaneW_away: NetworkMagic has different seconds on BreezyGoals and the actual spec.
[10:21] <mdz> doko: ping?
[10:22] <doko> mdz:pong
[10:32] <ogra> Nafallo, the spec lists the people that held the BOF for the topic, the Goals page lists the people that actually work on theimplementation
[10:32] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh, I see. thanks :-).
[10:57] <dholbach> hellas
[10:57] <Nafallo> hi dholbach :-)
[10:57] <dholbach> Nafallo :)
[10:59] <seb128> daniel!!
[10:59] <dholbach> woohoo seb128 
[10:59] <dholbach> sb: no jabber fun anymore? ;)
[10:59] <seb128> you are offline
[11:00] <dholbach> hm, not really
[11:09] <ogra> HWolf, the udu wiki is our ressource for breezy specs and goals... most of the work documentation and project planning/tracking is done there
[11:09] <HWolf> ogra, why isn't it moved to the main wiki?
[11:10] <doko> Kamion: if we get screem and bluez-utils converted to the new dbus, then you can tomorrow build a CD
[11:10] <ogra> becaue one is zwiki and the other is moin... it would drag away manpower from actual work to merge them
[11:10] <HWolf> hm, ok
[11:12] <torkel> doko: I think there is a new upstream release of screem that supports the new dbus (if you didn't already knew that)
[11:13] <ogra> doko, ugh, since when is screem in main ?
[11:14] <Nafallo> ogra: since warty I believe? ;-)
[11:14] <ogra> oh
[11:14] <doko> torkel: thanks, seb128 or I will have a look
[11:17] <seb128> torkel, doko: I've worked on 0.14.0 today and it doesn't
[11:17] <Nafallo> maswan: ping?
[11:17] <seb128> I've started to sync it from Debian
[11:18] <seb128> doko: oh, I've just uploaded bluez-utils
[11:18] <seb128> for the new dbus
[11:18] <seb128> a GNOME guy pinged me about it
[11:18] <seb128> so I've fixed it...
[11:18] <maswan> Nafallo: pong.
[11:18] <seb128> doko: and I've fixed screem 0.12 this morning, as said this afternoon 
[11:18] <torkel> seb128: according to screem.org, 0.14.1 should support newer dbus
[11:19] <Nafallo> maswan: something went wrong with the latest sync I believe?
[11:19] <seb128> torkel: k, Debian has 0.14.0, I'll have a look on the 0.14.1
[11:19] <seb128> thanks
[11:19] <maswan> Nafallo: yes. for some reason the tcp connection closes with ETIMEDOUT when reading from it.
[11:19] <maswan> Nafallo: I've been trying to figure out why, but I don't understand it.
[11:20] <maswan> Nafallo: the only similar incident I've managed to google up was discussed but not resolved on the rsync mailinglist
[11:21] <Nafallo> maswan: hmm, okey. you got a trace this time? :-)
[11:21] <maswan> a trace? as in truss:ed it? yes.
[11:22] <maswan> that's why I know that it goes into a select, sleeps a while, then resumes, does a kread on the tcp connection which fails with ETIMEDOUT
[11:24] <Nafallo> maswan: hmm, annoying ;-)
[11:30] <seb128> torkel: the issue is not dbus for screem, that's gnome-menus
[11:32] <torkel> seb128: oh
[11:32] <seb128> it uses the gnome-menus 2.10 API