[12:02] <dholbach> ok... i leave you guys again... have a nice day
[12:02] <Nafallo> night all!
[12:02] <ogra> night dholbach
[12:02] <\sh> cu dholbach :)
[12:02] <ogra> nigh Nafallo
[12:02] <\sh> have a good night :)
[12:02] <dholbach> bye
[12:03] <ivoks> bye
[12:09] <ivoks> well.. i'm going too
[12:09] <ivoks> bye all
[12:09] <\sh> g'night ivoks
[12:39] <\sh> good night folks :) cu tomorrow
[01:30] <tseng> hi
[01:30] <tritium> hi tseng
[02:52] <tseng> any MOTUs here for NEW package review?
[03:03] <crimsun> sure, ~20 mins
[03:07] <tseng> hm ok
[03:07] <tseng> let me upload this
[03:08] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/mono/boo/
[03:12] <tseng> thanks.
[03:19] <tseng> rock on!
[03:19] <tseng> ajmitch: dude
[03:19] <ajmitch> gar
[03:19] <tseng> ajmitch: http://tseng.ath.cx/images/bootest.png
[03:19] <ajmitch> :1:> dpkg-source -x *dsc
[03:19] <ajmitch> dpkg-source: error: file boo_0.5.4.1629-0ubuntu1.diff.gz has size 1377 instead of expected 1348
[03:19] <tseng> hm?
[03:19] <tseng> ill upload again
[03:19] <ajmitch> or rebuild the source package again
[03:19] <tseng> yep
[03:20] <ajmitch> nice demo
[03:20] <tseng> try that
[03:21] <tseng> yeah i am going to build a monodevelop-boo when we are done
[03:21] <tseng> and meebey checks off on it
[03:21] <ajmitch> nasty proxies
[03:23] <ajmitch> where's the rest of the description?
[03:23] <ajmitch> in debian/control
[03:24] <tseng> im not sure what to do about the rest
[03:24] <tseng> thats the blurb on the website
[03:24] <ajmitch> upstream is crack, if they're distributing binaries, not source
[03:24] <tseng> well
[03:25] <tseng> binaries are autotooled
[03:25] <tseng> source is NANT
[03:25] <ajmitch> evil
[03:25] <tseng> and since the binary is the same for everyone, that is what other people are shipping
[03:25] <tseng> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/BOO/Packaging+Boo
[03:25] <ajmitch> I don't like it, but it might have to do
[03:26] <tseng> yeah
[03:33] <ajmitch> plenty of lintian warnings
[03:34] <tseng> oh i forgot to run that
[03:34] <ajmitch> missing manpages, complaints about the description, etc
[03:34] <ajmitch> it even complains about NEWS & README being 0 bytes
[03:35] <tseng> elmo: boo: unknown-control-file clilibs
[03:35] <ajmitch> that's usual
[03:35] <tseng> Bah irssi autocomplete you suck
[03:35] <tseng> elmo: disregard autocomplete crack
[03:38] <ajmitch> ok, not really much else I can check at the moment
[03:44] <tseng> yeah ill fix those
[03:44] <tseng> grr manpages
[03:45] <tseng> oh i need to chmod 644 those
[03:45] <tseng> dll's
[05:25] <wasabi> Question about multiverse. I have a package, I'd like to upgrade it. It is free, but doesn't build from source YET.
[05:25] <wasabi> Not for ubuntu, right?
[05:25] <wasabi> s/upgrade/upload/
[05:26] <Burgundavia> what package?
[05:26] <crimsun> why would it be in multiverse if it's free?
[05:26] <wasabi> eclipse.
[05:26] <wasabi> Because it's java.
[05:26] <crimsun> afaik eclipse isn't really free, but I could be wrong
[05:26] <crimsun> (I really should know this)
[05:26] <wasabi> multiverse is not equiv to non-free is it.
[05:26] <wasabi> eclipse is free.
[05:26] <Burgundavia> what licence does it use?
[05:27] <crimsun> the license is the important part
[05:27] <Burgundavia> is it DFSG free?
[05:27] <wasabi> Yesa.
[05:27] <wasabi> Yes.
[05:27] <wasabi> Hey, ew don't need to go thru this part. I got this part handled. ;)
[05:27] <wasabi> The question is about packages without source deps.
[05:27] <wasabi> Debian contrib style.
[05:27] <wasabi> That != multiverse, right?
[05:28] <Burgundavia> contrib is universe, unless I am talking out my ass again
[05:28] <Burgundavia> non-free = multiverse
[05:28] <crimsun> contrib is universe.
[05:28] <wasabi> Uh.
[05:28] <crimsun> correct.
[05:28] <wasabi> I'd disagree.
[05:28] <Burgundavia> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/eclipse-platform
[05:28] <Burgundavia> contrib
[05:28] <wasabi> contrib in debian doesn't require dependencies to exist.
[05:28] <wasabi> At all.
[05:28] <wasabi> So stuff that depends on non-free stuff ends up there.
[05:28] <wasabi> For instance, things that only compile with SUn's VM.
[05:29] <crimsun> afaik EPLed Eclipse could possibly go into universe if it runs with gjc
[05:29] <crimsun> gcj
[05:29] <wasabi> It doesn't.
[05:29] <wasabi> Hence why I'm here.
[05:29] <wasabi> (yet)
[05:29] <crimsun> welp, you answered your own question
[05:29] <Burgundavia> RH is doing work with GCJ and eclipse, no?
[05:29] <wasabi> Did I?
[05:29] <wasabi> How so?
[05:30] <wasabi> I don't think I dod.
[05:30] <wasabi> Burgundavia, they are not compiling it's dependencies.
[05:30] <crimsun> your question regarding non-free, not multiverse in particular
[05:30] <Burgundavia> I really don't understand java, other than it is a licencing mess
[05:30] <wasabi> It depends on Tomcat5 (in progress) and lucene.
[05:30] <crimsun> what was your question regarding multiverse?
[05:30] <wasabi> multiverse != contrib?
[05:31] <crimsun> multiverse having things that depend on non-free
[05:31] <crimsun> (or being non-free, etc.)
[05:31] <wasabi> Things that Do Not Exist At All, more specifically.
[05:32] <crimsun> so you had a question... :)
[05:32] <wasabi> Yeah and it's not been answered.
[05:32] <wasabi> =/
[05:32] <crimsun> hmm, trying to see your question
[05:32] <crimsun> are you asking whether ubuntu multiverse can have it?
[05:33] <wasabi> Yes!
[05:33] <crimsun> does it b-d on a non-free java compiler?
[05:33] <wasabi> Is multiverse like contrib, can multiverse take binary uploads with unresolvable dependencies, like contrib.
[05:33] <wasabi> Yes. It does.
[05:33] <wasabi> A non-free compiler that will have no presense in Ubuntu at all.
[05:34] <crimsun> I think TB members are in a better position to answer that question, but my gut says it can exist in multiverse.
[05:34] <crimsun> like eagle.
[05:37] <crimsun> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/eagle/4.11-8ubuntu1/eagle_4.11-8ubuntu1_20050417-2241-i386-successful.bz2)
[05:39] <jsgotangco> wow i didnt know eagle was a pcb layout software
[05:39] <crimsun> eagle contains a binary, so all the build does it wrap it in a deb.
[05:39] <crimsun> does is^
[05:42] <crimsun> cool :)
[05:50] <jsgotangco> yeah i used to work for this company called pycon.com even before we had the PyCon python thing hehe
[05:54] <crimsun> nice.
[06:00] <Amaranth> does anyone know how i can get the sqlite pkg-config file?
[06:01] <crimsun> should be in libsqlite3-dev
[06:01] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[06:03] <Amaranth> libsqlite0-dev, actually
[06:06] <crimsun> ah, 2.8?
[06:07] <crimsun> I presumed you were referring to 3.0
[06:14] <Amaranth> well, libsqllite3-dev installs sqlite3.pc
[06:14] <Amaranth> oh, i forgot to add a .pc
[07:19] <ivoks> morning
[09:41] <\sh> morning
[09:41] <siretart> morning, and hi \sh :)
[09:43] <\sh> *yawn*
[10:03] <ivoks> ok, it's time to make a real ubuntu server distribution :)
[10:04] <Amaranth> good luck :)
[10:04] <ivoks> with cfengine2, ldap and open mosix
[10:04] <ivoks> this sucks... i have 60 computer NFS mounting root
[10:05] <ivoks> configuration for every maching is over 100MB
[10:05] <siretart> whats wrong with cfengine2 in hoary or breezy?
[10:05] <ivoks> siretart: nothing
[10:05] <siretart> ok. :)
[10:05] <ivoks> they are fine
[10:06] <ivoks> but they need to be included while server installation starts
[10:06] <ivoks> not as packages, but as configuration
[10:06] <siretart> how do you get the cfengine keys at installation time on the computer?
[10:07] <ivoks> siretart: same way you get SSH keys ;) after reboot
[10:07] <siretart> ah, that means that you always recreate them after installation, yes? how do they get then on the config server?
[10:08] <ivoks> ?
[10:08] <ivoks> you have one server
[10:08] <ivoks> and 60 clients
[10:08] <ivoks> every client has it's own keys, as server does
[10:09] <siretart> perhaps we have too diffrent setups to compare. I have a setup here with less clients (6 ;)) - but they all have their own harddrive and boot on their own
[10:09] <ivoks> siretart: that's i'm going to do too
[10:09] <ivoks> i'm sick of this NFS root
[10:10] <ivoks> imagine 60 computers mounting everything from single server
[10:10] <ivoks> they run like crap
[10:10] <ivoks> so i will make them mount only /home over NFS
[10:11] <ivoks> i'll setup LDAP for users and machines
[10:11] <siretart> ah. then you'll see the problem soon. The server has a list of 'trusted' keys. Either you find some way to preserve the cfengine keys, or some way is needed that the new created keys are accepted on the config host (as far as I understood it)
[10:11] <ivoks> and with cfengine they'll do upgrades/changes
[10:11] <ivoks> siretart: that's not problem
[10:11] <siretart> no?
[10:12] <ivoks> every client will create it's own key which will be transfered to server
[10:12] <\sh> I would like to see something like the sun solaris enterprise extensions
[10:12] <ivoks> it's dumb work, but...
[10:12] <siretart> ivoks: you mean, manually?
[10:13] <ivoks> siretart: scp :)
[10:13] <siretart> oh :(
[10:13] <ivoks> well, any better ideas?
[10:13] <ivoks> i won't do all 60 in one day :)
[10:13] <siretart> this wasn't an option for us.
[10:13] <ivoks> why?
[10:14] <\sh> ivoks: check this out: http://catalog.sun.com/productinfo.xml?site=DE_GER&catalogue=FC&segment=FC_R&item=FC_SC_CAT&group=2005&fid=5087&id=12477
[10:14] <siretart> because we are not always available. the local guy running the cafe has absolutly no knowlegde about adminning, but must be able to reinstall the machine
[10:14] <ivoks> ah :))
[10:14] <ivoks> why reinstall?
[10:14] <siretart> so we really  need a really fully automated installation
[10:15] <ivoks> \sh: ?
[10:15] <ivoks> siretart: kickstart?
[10:15] <ivoks> siretart: kickstart has option of running scripts after installation
[10:15] <\sh> ivoks: those clients can share hardware between other clients, with the server software installed
[10:15] <\sh> usb over ethernet
[10:15] <siretart> reinstall is discouraged, yes. but it's needed from time to time, perheps because he messes up the partitions with a windoze installation, or because hard drive failure or so
[10:15] <ivoks> so, you can put key on CD and just copy it
[10:16] <ivoks> \sh: hardware isn't the problem... i have spare monitors and stuff :)
[10:16] <\sh> u have smartcard handling, where u have your session, and if u need to go to another location, u take your smartcard and plug it into another machine, u will start where u stopped
[10:16] <siretart> ivoks: we switched from FAI to d-i preseed. both offer this, and with this hook we are bootstrapping cfengine in fact
[10:16] <\sh> ivoks: no...these r special thin clients
[10:16] <\sh> ivoks: http://catalog.sun.com/productinfo.xml?site=DE_GER&catalogue=FC&segment=FC_R&item=FC_SC_CAT&group=2005&fid=5087&id=12516
[10:16] <\sh> as I read, the server software is also available for linux
[10:17] <ivoks> german :)
[10:17] <siretart> \sh: ah, these sun rays are fine. at university run the sunray software on debian/i386
[10:17] <\sh> exchange DE_GER
[10:17] <siretart> +our local admins
[10:17] <\sh> siretart: when I saw this system first, there was only a solaris solution
[10:18] <siretart> \sh: the linux version is not really released final. there are some beta versions for red hat available
[10:18] <\sh> siretart: but it was nice...even with a blade integrated, I used this citrix solution and accessed the blade PCI x86 card while I was sitting on the toilet with a sun laptop  and my session SC installed
[10:18] <siretart> wait, I'll search the link
[10:19] <siretart> \sh: http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~simigern/sunray-debian/
[10:19] <\sh> siretart: they have it on their webpage as official announcement :)
[10:19] <\sh> ah :)
[10:20] <ivoks> i still don't get this :)
[10:20] <ivoks> you can have more clients like this and move from one to another?
[10:20] <\sh> the hardware doesn't count anymore ;)
[10:21] <\sh> u have your account on the server, like a normal x-client
[10:21] <ivoks> ok
[10:21] <siretart> ivoks: sunrays are a thin client solution, with the goodie, that you can take your session with you. just plug your card in another sunray and voila, your old session is restored
[10:21] <ivoks> doh..
[10:21] <ivoks> i have that with this kind of setup :)
[10:21] <ivoks> and will have with the setup i'm going to do
[10:21] <\sh> but your session data is saved on a smartcard and if you unplug your SC the session on a terminal is closed, and u can use the smartcard on another terminal and startover with your work, with the same session
[10:22] <siretart> \sh: do you have a source for cheap sunrays? ;)
[10:22] <ivoks> it just mounts that smartcard as home
[10:22] <siretart> because I find them rather expensive..
[10:22] <\sh> and the other goodie is, at least with the solaris version, you can plugin a usb dvd writer and the server handles the usb device as a local device, and you can create dvds
[10:22] <ivoks> and i hate sun :)
[10:23] <\sh> siretart: my first company is sun partner, i can ask what they want for sun rays...
[10:23] <\sh> 950
[10:23] <siretart> \sh: just curious, I'm not really that interested spending a lot of money just for private use ;)
[10:23] <ivoks> lol
[10:23] <siretart> 950 EUROS?
[10:23] <\sh> for one bae-400-0 official price
[10:23] <ivoks> 1000E?
[10:24] <\sh> sun ray 170 with screen
[10:24] <\sh> this is the price from sun ;)
[10:24] <siretart> ah. hm
[10:24] <ivoks> i don't know about you, but...
[10:24] <ivoks> this is too much
[10:25] <\sh> siretart: and the screen less sun ray 1g is only 320
[10:25] <\sh> ivoks: this is nothing :) compared with a good workstation ;)
[10:25] <\sh> siretart: official sun price ;)
[10:25] <siretart> \sh: at university, we only have this screenless versions: sun ray 1 and a few 1g's
[10:25] <siretart> \sh: I've seen some sun ray 1 on ebay for about 50 bucks..
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: yeah, normally u have spare screens
[10:26] <\sh> but look here, official price: sun ray 1g with 24" tft 2450
[10:27] <\sh> or with a 19" 950 , just like the sun ray with 17" screen
[10:27] <ivoks> well, they say sun java desktop works on it
[10:27] <\sh> hahaha..sun u r stupid
[10:27] <ivoks> so... linux works on it :)
[10:27] <siretart> or over here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22462&item=5774483934&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[10:27] <\sh> ivoks: there is no OS running on the clients...the server runs all :)
[10:27] <siretart> ivoks: well, the sunray itself has its firmware, an I think its an small ppc
[10:27] <\sh> xterminal system it is
[10:28] <ivoks> \sh: there has to be something, it can't run alone
[10:28] <siretart> ivoks: it depends on the sunray server software. It seems that that software runs better on solaris, but at university here, they switched from the old SunFire 290 to Opterons running debian/i386
[10:28] <\sh> but the cute stuff is the smartcard handling...:) the sun laptops with SC tray+wifi == sit on the toilet, think and code ;) u have peace on earth *gg*
[10:29] <siretart> lol
[10:29] <\sh> ivoks: just like the normal xterminals
[10:29] <ivoks> \sh: so, they have OS :)
[10:29] <\sh> ivoks: they have a boot loader and and pxe boot and loading all the stuff via network into their ram
[10:29] <ivoks> \sh: that's what i'm talking about
[10:29] <ivoks> that kind of setup i have
[10:30] <\sh> ivoks: thats normal
[10:30] <ivoks> and that works ok for 10-15 clients
[10:30] <\sh> ivoks: usb devices?
[10:30] <ivoks> but when you have 60, then it's pice of ....
[10:30] <\sh> u plugin a us device at your client, and the server will use it as local device?
[10:30] <siretart> lol: \sh: http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~simigern/SunRay-Home/11190003.JPG
[10:31] <ivoks> \sh: no, usb in client is usb only on that client
[10:31] <\sh> lol
[10:31] <\sh> ivoks: u see...:)
[10:32] <ivoks> \sh: what?
[10:32] <\sh> ivoks: those extentions are using the local client usb device as a server device
[10:33] <siretart> ivoks: the sunrays have a concept of 'detached' and 'attached' sessions, like screen. If you use the 'local' usb port, the sunray software keeps sure that local means local to the currently attached sunray
[10:33] <\sh> it's transfering the info which device u plug in to the server
[10:34] <ivoks> ?
[10:34] <ivoks> let's see if i get this right
[10:34] <ivoks> you have one server
[10:34] <ivoks> with N clients
[10:34] <\sh> siretart: i don't know if it's standard, but I was able to burn a cd on a different client...i was using a usb cdrw on a station while i was logged in, detached my session, reattached my session on a blade, and was burning a cd
[10:35] <\sh> on this cdrw of the client i was attached earlier
[10:35] <siretart> \sh: I think thats only possible with the solaris sunray software. the linux cannot even handle usbsticks :(
[10:35] <ivoks> ah...
[10:35] <\sh> siretart: yeah i think so..it wasn't linux running there ;)
[10:36] <ivoks> that's nice, but i don't think it's of too much use
[10:36] <\sh> siretart: but this is one of the nifty feature..that's the reason i like this system
[10:36] <ivoks> well, it's not worth 1000E per client :)
[10:37] <\sh> ivoks: well....if u'r sitting on one client and u need a citrix session from a sun blade and u can watch videos, listen to mp3 via citrix..
[10:38] <ivoks> heh
[10:39] <ivoks> if you need it, buy it...
[10:39] <\sh> and while u r doing this, u plugin a usb device, say cdrw, and the windows session recognizing your usb device, which u attached just now, and u r able to burn cds on this device, but your windows is running 5 rooms before you :)
[10:40] <ivoks> i still don't think it's worth
[10:40] <ivoks> couse why wouldn't you all that on one normal machine?
[10:40] <\sh> ivoks: for a small to middle sized office, it's a usable solution. using gbit and some nice cisco gbit switches
[10:40] <ivoks> s/all/do all/
[10:40] <\sh> ivoks: support
[10:40] <\sh> ivoks: think about it: user is complaining that his windows machine can't print on printer1
[10:41] <ivoks> \sh: i don't speek with end users :)
[10:41] <\sh> ivoks: support has to check several machines...the users machine, the printserver and the printer
[10:41] <ivoks> \sh: no, only user machine and printer :)
[10:41] <ivoks> CUPS is allways ok :)
[10:42] <\sh> ivoks: user machine, printserver and printer
[10:42] <\sh> :)
[10:43] <ivoks> well, i don;t want to put my stick in one client, so other users on other clients can work with it
[10:43] <\sh> ivoks: ??
[10:43] <\sh> ivoks: nobody else can work with your stick :)
[10:43] <ivoks> it's not like that? ah, right, session...
[10:44] <ivoks> don't get me wrong, but i really don't think that's worth 1000e per client
[10:45] <\sh> ivoks: for business solutions it is :)
[10:45] <\sh> and those prices u wont get anyways...it's cheaper
[10:46] <ivoks> i still don't get it... why would anyone leave client1 and go to client2, if that clients are same computers :)
[10:46] <ivoks> same hardware, same OS, everything...
[10:47] <ivoks> that's what chip cards are for, right?
[10:47] <ivoks> to save your seesion, wich you can restore on another computer
[10:48] <siretart> ivoks: thats great to show your work or to ask your collegue for advice who is sitting in another room. so you can take your session with you
[10:48] <ivoks> siretart: i knew you will say that
[10:49] <ivoks> but, we have webdav, ldap, nfs, smb, ftp
[10:49] <siretart> ivoks: it's also great in labs, when you go out for lunch, and in the meantime someone else can use that client
[10:49] <siretart> ivoks: same here
[10:49] <ivoks> siretart: you don't need chip card for that
[10:49] <ivoks> gnome has that options :)
[10:49] <ivoks> apps, system tools, new login
[10:50] <ivoks> ok RAM would be filled :)
[10:51] <ivoks> sun didn't invenet anything great, he just put tools like those we use in onde product
[10:51] <ivoks> they have money to do that
[10:52] <ivoks> that's why i think that's not worth it
[10:52] <\sh> ivoks: the clients can be those thin clients sunrays or sun blades or some new sun hardware client x86 ppc sparc technique
[10:52] <ivoks> \sh: i know
[10:52] <ivoks> that's advantage, you can have ppc and 386 with same setup
[10:52] <\sh> ivoks: and this is only a kewl nifty thing :) it's something special ;)
[10:53] <ivoks> i give them credit for that... but in the end, clients just boot another kernel, rest of the OS is same
[10:53] <\sh> ivoks: and if something breaks, u have to call sun, they will replace it, and u don't have any work with it :)
[10:54] <ivoks> :))
[10:54] <ivoks> but you have to pay :)
[10:54] <\sh> no u have contracts before hand :)
[10:54] <ivoks> the point is that i'll do something similar at my faculty and i'll be the one to get payed :)
[10:55] <\sh> right :)
[10:55] <ivoks> can you optimize kernel for that clients?
[10:55] <ivoks> couse, this 60 computers are in one big cluster
[10:55] <ivoks> s/couse/cause/
[10:56] <\sh> ivoks: for what?
[10:56] <\sh> ivoks: one hardware one kernel
[10:57] <\sh> don't think the linux way :)
[10:57] <ivoks> \sh: well, i have to patch my kernels
[10:57] <\sh> think the sun way :)
[10:57] <\sh> ivoks: u see :) more work :)
[10:57] <ivoks> \sh: that's i;m affraid of :) sun way :)
[10:57] <ivoks> \sh: to do what sun does, i don't have to patch my kernel, not even rebuild it
[10:57] <ivoks> but for sun to do what i'm doing... hm... :))
[10:58] <\sh> ivoks: this is  not true
[10:58] <ivoks> \sh: i have 60 computers booting without disks :)
[10:58] <ivoks> all 60 are in one openmosix cluster
[10:58] <\sh> u can adjust kernel settings etc. but it's different :) it's the same like tru64 u can "relink" the kernel with different settings
[10:58] <ivoks> but you can't add openmosix features :)
[10:59] <ivoks> no load balancing :)
[10:59] <ivoks> my clients search for a client that doesn't do anything, and send proccess on it
[10:59] <ivoks> so you have p3/700MHz, doing compiling on P4 3GHz in another room
[11:00] <ivoks> another p3 will pass it to another p4
[11:00] <ivoks> etc..
[11:01] <ivoks> so, you see, SunRay isn't that big thing. you have it all in opensource world
[11:02] <\sh> i've never said, it's a big thing :) it's nice to have, not much work :)
[11:02] <ivoks> even USB devices could be managed
[11:02] <ivoks> via dbus and hal
[11:02] <ivoks> i'm sure something could be done with that too...
[11:03] <ivoks> \sh: i guess that clients don't share memory, something that my clients do :)
[11:03] <ivoks> ok... EOD? :)
[11:05] <\sh> ivoks: sorry :) i had a phone call :)
[11:06] <\sh> and trying to fix arkrpg
[11:06] <ivoks> :)
[11:06] <ivoks> \sh: thing is... i want ubuntu to have this!
[11:06] <ivoks> and i'll do that
[11:06] <ivoks> i'll create some metapackage and configuration
[11:07] <ivoks> wouldn't that be great?
[11:09] <siretart> ivoks: i think thats being pushed by skolelinux (and therefor edubuntu) folks
[11:09] <siretart> since they are trying such setups for scools
[11:11] <ivoks> yeah, but, no openmosix there :)
[11:11] <siretart> but freenx ;)
[11:11] <siretart> is openmosix already ready for production use on linux 2.6?
[11:12] <ivoks> not yet
[11:12] <siretart> and what about amd64?
[11:12] <ivoks> it is working well, but there are no tools
[11:12] <ivoks> siretart: same thing, it will be supported in 2.6 version
[11:13] <ivoks> but some stuff need to be done still...
[11:13] <siretart> ic
[11:13] <ivoks> so, i'll wait with this project or maybe join edubuntu when openmosix gets stable for 2.6
[11:14] <ivoks> i have to go now...
[11:14] <ivoks> so, see you!
[11:14] <siretart> cu ivoks
[11:14] <ivoks> if anyone is willing to join me on this, contact me
[11:15] <ivoks> i really want to do great server enviorment on ubuntu
[11:15] <siretart> ivoks: such an environment would be fun to setup :)
[11:15] <siretart> gnarf. too late ;)
[11:16] <koke> hi all!
[11:19] <siretart> hi koke
[11:20] <\sh> siretat: if you have time, please check the arkrpg source
[11:20] <\sh> siretart: I'm stucked right now...and I don't know how to fix this nasty little thing
[11:21] <siretart> downloading
[11:22] <siretart> cxx transistion. I see.
[11:22] <\sh> yeh
[11:23] <\sh> ok..the renaming is easy..
[11:23] <\sh> mv debian/libarkrpg.* to debian/libarkrpgc2.*
[11:23] <\sh> change debian/control
[11:23] <\sh> and check in the rules file all libarkrpg and replace it with libarkrpgc2 (but not the -dev)
[11:23] <\sh> but
[11:24] <\sh> take a look in the debian/patches directory
[11:24] <\sh> and try a test build :) u will see, that during the configure Xwindow tests it fails and wont find the xwindow libs and headers
[11:25] <\sh> now, I'm trying to apply a autoreconf to the configure section, but this doesn't work anyhow...or I don't see it, because my brain is dead because of this package
[11:25] <siretart> woah. that looks challenging..
[11:26] <siretart> wtf?! libretoolized as dpatch?!
[11:26] <siretart> hm
[11:26] <\sh> siretart: yeah...
[11:26] <\sh> but for me...I'm off now...
[11:27] <\sh> showering....and getting some furniture :)
[11:27] <\sh> cu later this evening dudes
[11:27] <\sh> and siretart thx :)
[11:27] <siretart> n/p
[11:27] <siretart> have fun ;)
[11:30] <siretart> cannot satisfy built dependencies
[11:57] <Burgundavia> ogra, morning
[12:00] <Burgundavia> ogra, morning, now that you have sorted out your nicks
[12:01] <ogra> hey Burgundavia
[12:01] <Burgundavia> ogra, I noticed you took the lead on Edubuntu. How can I help you with that?
[12:02] <ogra> Burgundavia, let me first see what the Edubuntu guys say, i'm just inviting them to become MOTUs
[12:02] <Burgundavia> ogra, ok, cool
[12:02] <jsgotangco> hmm
[12:02] <ogra> (there isnot much to do yet, since all software already exists and only needs packaging)
[12:02] <jsgotangco> i should be a MOTU too soon
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> ogra is making himself heard here. :)
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> hardly a wiki without his name on it. ;)
[12:04] <siretart> \sh: you are abolutly right. This arkrpg is a real mess
[12:04] <ogra> heh
[12:05] <Burgundavia> ogra, I think it is key to get it packaged as soon as possible, so we can work with upstream on improving the product, and on fixing bugs
[12:07] <siretart> is there a page on what needs to be packaged?
[12:08] <ajmitch> evening
[12:08] <Nafallo> ajmitch: morning :-)
[12:08] <siretart> morning ajmitch  :)
[12:09] <Burgundavia> for packages that don't have a description in their debian dir, is it worth pinging the debian maintainer about it?
[12:10] <ogra> Burgundavia, yep, but upstream is interested in becoming MOTU, so they could do the packaging themselves ;)
[12:10] <Burgundavia> cool
[12:13] <jsgotangco> wow
[12:42] <jsgotangco> happy weekend to you all, get some sunshine :)
[12:42] <ivoks> you too
[12:54] <thom> (no, it won't be in breezy)
[12:54] <thom> ;-)
[12:54] <ivoks> :)
[12:54] <ivoks> i know, just checking out :)
[12:54] <Amaranth> you just started? i've been on the nightly trainwreck for weeks :)
[12:54] <tseng> thom++
[12:54] <Amaranth> eh? it comes out next month, doesn't it?
[12:54] <tseng> Amaranth: remember warty?
[12:54] <Amaranth> 0.9.3+1.0+revertedto10.9.3 or some crap like that? :)
[12:54] <tseng> yes.
[12:54] <ivoks> what was that all about?
[12:54] <tseng> uh
[12:54] <tseng> 1.0-rc sucked big time
[12:54] <Amaranth> i guess i'll just have to keep using nightlies then :)
[12:54] <tseng> we had to pull it
[12:55] <ivoks> ok i agree -rc shouldn't go in distribution
[12:55] <tseng> thats how we got the B word
[12:55] <thom> yeah
[12:55] <Amaranth> Well, when your OS is ignored for the most part until 0.8 you wouldn't expect them to make it work in just 3 more releases.
[12:55] <Amaranth> I'm surprised 0.9.3 didn't fall over more
[12:55] <thom> it won't become firefox until the 2.0 release
[12:55] <thom> 0.9.3 is surprisingly decent
[12:56] <thom> so i may try and sneak deer park into universe
[12:56] <ivoks> it starts very fast...
[12:56] <ivoks> faster then 1.0
[12:57] <tseng>  bye all
[12:57] <ivoks> bye
[12:57] <thom> later dude
[12:57] <thom> i wish they'd provide freaking source for their trunk builds
[12:58] <Burgundavia> thom, don't they have to?
[12:59] <ogra> thom, do you know of a easy way to replace NIS atuthentication with LDAP ? i'm just looking through the LTSP stuff, and they use NIS obviously, which hurts badly imho
[01:00] <Burgundavia> seen this? http://blog.ignore-your.tv/images/fusa-lotsa-users.png
[01:00] <thom> Burgundavia: no.
[01:00] <Burgundavia> on p.g.o
[01:00] <ivoks> Burgundavia: fast-user-switch
[01:01] <Burgundavia> no, the number of users, tis funny
[01:01] <Burgundavia> and an interesting edge case
[01:01] <ogra> Unfrgive1 has packaged it alredy
[01:01] <ivoks> hehe
[01:01] <thom> ogra: i have no idea how nis ties in, actually. if it uses PAM it should be pretty trivial
[01:01] <ivoks> yeah, we have a deb for ubuntu
[01:01] <ogra> thom, oki, i'll look at it...
[01:01] <ivoks> Burgundavia: this isn't too much users...
[01:02] <Burgundavia> ivoks, there are some interesting UI points that are raised by that
[01:03] <ivoks> ?
[01:06] <ivoks> that reminds me... is there something wrong with wifi-radar? :)
[01:10] <ivoks> well... bye all
[01:10] <ivoks> i have work to do..
[02:07] <siretart> ogra: actually, it shouldn't be that painfull to replace nis with ldap, i've done this already
[02:07] <ogra> siretart, in a LTSP environment ?
[02:07] <siretart> ogra: the main problem about this migration is rather that the way how the users are managed is completly different.
[02:08] <siretart> ogra: no, I havn't done any ltsp work yet, but whats so different with an 'normal' nis environment?
[02:08] <ogra> dunno ;)
[02:08] <ogra> but i'll have to find it out
[02:09] <ivoks> ldap?
[02:09] <siretart> ogra: acutally, you would need libnss-ldap for such an environment. Set /etc/nsswitch.conf to ldap after configuring
[02:10] <ivoks> of course he needs :)
[02:10] <ivoks> nsswitch.conf is must have file
[02:10] <ivoks> man, must have :)
[02:10] <ivoks> he has to edit it
[02:10] <siretart> ogra: after that, you'll perhaps also want ppl to login with ldap accounts, so /etc/pam.d/* would need to be adjusted to use libpam-ldap
[02:11] <ivoks> ogra: passwd: ldap compat (same for group and shadow)
[02:11] <siretart> ogra: we are doing stuff like that here via cfengine2. If I can help you, let me know
[02:12] <ogra> oki, thanks, i'll look at it more close and come back to you if its time :)
[02:12] <ivoks> cfengine2 is holly grale for that :)
[02:12] <siretart> cfengine can also be quite a beast, trust me
[02:12] <ivoks> :)
[02:13] <Mithrandir> pam should really grow some tools to change the configuration files programatically.
[02:14] <siretart> I'm not sure it should.
[02:15] <Mithrandir> it would be very, very nice if you were given the option of activating pam modules when they are installed.
[02:15] <Mithrandir> so you could ask for, say, libpam-tmpdir to be enabled for all services when that is installed (and removed on remove, naturally)
[02:15] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: some PAM modules don't make sense for some PAM-users
[02:15] <siretart> this security stuff needs to be controlable and verifyable. I don't know how you can acheive that any other way like now
[02:16] <siretart> Mithrandir: what about pam modules which need configuration, like say, libpam-ldap?
[02:16] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: then have a blacklist (or whitelist, whichever makes sense) for which the should be enabled for?
[02:16] <Mithrandir> siretart: they could ask for configuration too?
[02:17] <siretart> Mithrandir: this would complicate non interactive installations
[02:17] <Mithrandir> siretart: why?
[02:17] <Mithrandir> and saying that "this is not a perfect solution for all pam modules" doesn't mean "this should not be done for any pam modules".
[02:23] <ogra> ivoks, in the afternoon ?
[02:23] <ivoks> yeah... i'm setting up e-mail server :)
[02:23] <ivoks> 60 users... boring job... so i buyed beer :)
[02:23] <ogra> ah, ok... understandable :)
[02:23] <ivoks> makes job funnyer :)
[02:23] <ogra> but double check your work ;)
[02:24] <ivoks> ogra: of course... i have years and years of expirience
[02:24] <ivoks> my hands don't listen to my brain when I'm drunk
[02:24] <ivoks> they do their job.. and brain goes outside :)
[02:35] <siretart> Mithrandir: perhaps you are right, and some pam modules could provide an easier way for enabling them.
[02:36] <Mithrandir> siretart: I think it would be useful, at least.
[02:36] <siretart> Mithrandir: still, I don't see how this could be practically done with the current configuration style pam is using
[02:36] <Mithrandir> siretart: it would need to understand the format and insert it at appropriate places.
[02:39] <siretart> Mithrandir: you mean some autoconfig infrastructure which recreates pam config as needed/wished by the admin? sounds quite dangerous to me
[02:40] <siretart> and reminds me a bit to what yast is supposed to do
[02:40] <Treenaks> siretart: *shudder*
[02:40] <Mithrandir> siretart: no, not recreates.  Edits the one in place.  Should be easy enough to write something.
[02:41] <Treenaks> and an @include ?
[02:43] <siretart> hm. I'm still not sure. It sounds like a great project, but I'm still not sure how it could look like. are any other distributions already offering something like this?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: @include is scary, yes.  You'd have to do that in some non-crackful way.
[02:45] <ivoks> heh
[02:46] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: annoyingly, @include syntax has changed in 0.78/0.79 :)
[03:03] <ivoks> lol
[03:03] <ivoks> i'm too drunk :)
[03:04] <ivoks> anyone here know perl?
[03:22] <jamessan|work> ivoks: yeah
[03:29] <ivoks> :)
[03:29] <ivoks> i fixed problem :)
[03:31] <jamessan|work> cool
[04:04] <ivoks> time to go..
[04:04] <ivoks> bye all!
[04:08] <Burgundavia> someone on -devel is seeking packaging advice
[04:12] <ogra> Burgundavia, you are faster then my 5min mail poll :P
[04:13] <siretart> hey, no rowdys in here!
[04:13] <siretart> :)
[04:13] <Burgundavia> sorry I monitor my mail religously
[04:14] <Burgundavia> soon I will have a job and not be able to spend many hours with you wonderful people
[04:14] <ogra> :)
[04:14] <ogra> siretart, i wear my furry boots today, no damage done ;)
[04:14] <Burgundavia> hmm, fur
[04:14] <siretart> lol
[04:15] <ogra> yeah, its great at 30 degree celsius....
[04:15] <siretart> way too hot for /me
[04:15] <ogra> heh
[04:16] <siretart>    Wind: From the Northwest at 2 mph
[04:16] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:49] <MarioOs> hello
[05:43] <siretart> I uploaded an updated keychain package, but got no response yet. Do I need to reupload it as soon as elmo adds my key to the keyring or is that package handled manually then?
[05:43] <elmo> you need to reupload when your key is added
[05:43] <siretart> ok
[05:43] <siretart> do we get notified when this is done?
[05:44] <elmo> yes
[05:44] <siretart> ok
[05:44] <elmo> if you mailed keyring/upload@
[05:44] <siretart> thanks!
[05:44] <siretart> elmo: I did, mako even replied
[05:44] <elmo> blink
[05:45] <ogra> elmo, \sh too ...
[05:45] <bddebian> La la la la, la la la la, Elmo's World...
[05:46] <bddebian> Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
[06:28] <DanielN> uehh :)
[06:29] <bddebian> Hello DanielN
[06:30] <chillywilly> hello ppl
[06:30] <ogra> hey all
[06:30] <DanielN> haidiho ogra, chillysilly ;)
[06:30] <DanielN> ups. .
[06:30] <ogra> heh
[06:31] <chillywilly> is anyone packaging twisted python framework?
[06:32] <chillywilly> where can I find a list of things that need to be done?
[06:32] <ogra> erm, i think thats already there...
[06:32] <chillywilly> yea, I see it..'
[06:33] <ogra> currently the best place it help is the C++ transition
[06:33] <chillywilly> what's the "C++ transition"?
[06:33] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly, ogra
[06:33] <ogra> we switch the compile to g++4
[06:34] <bddebian> chillywilly: Don't act like you are actually going to do anything man..
[06:34] <chillywilly> bddebian: don't make me woop you
[06:34] <ogra> so all librarys and apps need a rebuild and a new naming scheme
[06:34] <chillywilly> :)
[06:34] <ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
[06:34] <chillywilly> ic
[06:34] <bddebian> chillywilly: Oh please, whip me honey.. ;-)
[06:35] <ogra> indeed we need to trnsition the libs first...
[06:35] <ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
[06:35] <ogra> so the above is currently the best place to help
[06:35] <Nafallo> hmpf
[06:36] <bddebian> Oh man.. :)
[06:38] <chillywilly> bddebian: and what are you packaging right now? ;)
[06:40] <siretart> chillywilly: <advmode> if you want to see an application in ubuntu actually using twisted, then have a look at "londonlaw" ;) </advmode>
[06:40] <bddebian> chillywilly: Ubuntu GNU/Hurd.. ;-P
[06:40] <siretart> wow
[06:40] <chillywilly> :)
[06:43] <ogra> lol
[06:43] <ogra> bddebian, will it be ready "next year" ?
[06:43] <chillywilly> almost lunch time
[06:43] <bddebian> Sure
[06:43] <ogra> hehe
[06:46] <bddebian> Maybe I'll call it Ubunturd GNU/Hurd
[06:46] <bddebian> Oh I crack myself up...
[06:51] <chillywilly> I am still waiting for the "Randy Rhinocerus" release but I don't think that one will ever happen either ;)
[06:52] <chillywilly> somehow the image of a rhino humping your leg isn't very appealing... ;P
[06:52] <chillywilly> or just down right scary
[06:52] <ajmitch> bddebian: Hubuntu :)
[06:52] <chillywilly> hoo-boon-tooo?
[06:53] <chillywilly> :'(
[06:53] <chillywilly> *sniff*
[06:53] <ajmitch> you'll survive
[06:54] <siretart> ok, i'm off for today.cu tomorrow
[06:54] <ajmitch> chillywilly: btw what's wrong with the twisted packages in ubuntu & debian? :P
[06:54] <chillywilly> bye
[06:54] <chillywilly> nothing I suppose
[06:54] <chillywilly> was grasping at straws
[06:55] <chillywilly> but I definitely like twisted and nevow better than zope
[06:55] <ajmitch> heh
[06:55] <chillywilly> :)
[06:55] <chillywilly> hides too
[06:58] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[07:14] <herve> heya!
[07:15] <Nafallo> hi herve :-)
[07:16] <DanielN> hi herve
[07:30] <bddebian> Hello herve
[07:37] <mgalvin> hi all
[07:38] <mgalvin> this may be a silly question, but I have 2 machines I am trying to build debs on
[07:39] <mgalvin> when I gen my gpg key, can i just copy $HOME/.gnupg over to the 2nd box
[07:39] <ogra> yep
[07:39] <bddebian> Hello mgalvin
[07:39] <ogra> hi mgalvin btw
[07:39] <mgalvin> cool, thnx
[07:39] <ogra> nice to see you here :)
[07:39] <mgalvin> nice to be here :)
[07:39] <ogra> :)
[07:41] <herve> hey, mgalvin
[07:41] <bddebian> Hey, you never tell ME that it's nice to see me here.. ;-)
[07:41] <herve> you finally came :-)
[07:41] <herve> hi, bddebian, nice to see you around!
[07:41] <bddebian> Heh
[07:42] <mgalvin> yup, i made it, i had to stop and ask for directions ;)
[07:47] <ivoks> hi all
[07:47] <bddebian> Hello ivoks
[07:48] <herve> hi
[07:48] <ivoks> herve: where can I see logs of packages that faild to build?
[07:49] <herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
[07:49] <ivoks> thanx
[07:51] <\sh> re *phew*
[07:52] <herve> phew?
[07:52] <\sh> since this afternoon i was moving furniture from one office to my flat
[07:52] <chillywilly> ooof
[07:52] <chillywilly> Qdoba's burriots are no joke my friends
[07:52] <chillywilly> you could kill an elephant with those things
[07:53] <chillywilly> choke an elephant rather
[07:53] <ogra> \sh, isnt it a bit warm for such things ?
[07:53] <\sh> ogra: well, we had no choice..but it was nice at schweizers beergarden ;)
[07:53] <ogra> heh
[07:53] <ivoks> i agree with ogra :)
[07:53] <\sh> nice steaks some beer
[07:54] <\sh> it's ok...and ;) there was another surprise
[07:54] <ogra> \sh, the only thing i miss from this company :) (except some people)
[07:55] <\sh>  /dev/sda1 160829704
[07:55] <\sh> guess what it is?
[07:55] <ogra> iuu
[07:55] <ogra> nice
[07:55] <\sh> ogra: u r right ;)
[07:56] <herve> \sh, depends the unit :-)
[07:56] <\sh> herve: usb2 160GB ide udma5 7200rpm and silent :)
[07:56] <ogra> oh, only 7200
[07:56] <\sh> it's enough for the laptop
[07:56] <ogra> usb ?
[07:56] <\sh> jepp
[07:57] <\sh> usb1.1/usb2 :)
[07:58] <\sh> I mean, now i can make a rsync rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ;)
[07:59] <\sh> ah it's shutting down when I don't make any attempt to access this drive...:) nice :)
[08:00] <ivoks> one question: how do i define something int for i386, and long for amd64 and ia64?
[08:00] <ivoks> ifdef... WHAT? :)
[08:01] <herve> ivoks, I changed types causing FTBFS to long
[08:01] <herve> not considering the arch
[08:01] <ivoks> ok
[08:01] <ivoks> i did that too on one package...
[08:01] <ivoks> tought maybe would be better to do ifdef...
[08:01] <DanielN> ree
[08:01] <herve> I don't feel good at a variable changing its type across archs
[08:02] <herve> s/at/about
[08:03] <ivoks> anyone has amd64 or ia64?
[08:03] <\sh> hmmm
[08:04] <\sh> siretart: ping :)
[08:04] <DanielN> \sh some time to review? ^^
[08:05] <ivoks> Mithrandir: ping :)
[08:05] <\sh> DanielN: just now :) let me have a shower first :) it's not nice to smell myself right now :)
[08:05] <herve> strange idea... :-)
[08:06] <ogra> \sh, some noseplugs would help too
[08:06] <ivoks> \sh: take a shower... i think i can smell it allover here :)
[08:06] <\sh> ogra: ok..if u say so...let's try it out...next week at your place?
[08:06] <ivoks> hm... no... that's me :)
[08:07] <\sh> ogra: first move some beer barrels and then we will have a "who is smelling nicer after work" duell ;)
[08:08] <\sh> ok...no jokes anymore :) showering time
[08:10] <ivoks> come on guys... someone must have amd64?
[08:13] <DanielN> *** unhandled exception in callback:
[08:13] <DanielN> ***   variable not allowed to be undef where GtkTreeIter is wanted at /usr/bin/qemu-launcher line 871.
[08:13] <DanielN> ***  ignoring at /usr/bin/qemu-launcher line 1277.
[08:13] <DanielN> ....
[08:13] <DanielN> some perl specialists over there ? :)
[08:13] <ogra> rather gtk2-perl i guess
[08:13] <ivoks> don't undef that variable :)
[08:13] <ivoks> doko: hi
[08:13] <ogra> heh
[08:14] <DanielN> ivoks: that means? (i haven't coded that)
[08:15] <ivoks> DanielN: go to line 871 in that file
[08:15] <DanielN> yeah
[08:16] <DanielN> i am there since ~1h :)
[08:16] <ivoks> and, is there undef?
[08:16] <DanielN> i don't know, since i don't know anything about perl *shame*
[08:17] <ivoks> DanielN: does anywhere there says 'undef'?
[08:17] <ogra> is the word "undef" in the line anywhere ?
[08:17] <herve> DanielN, paste that line here
[08:17] <ivoks> hm... it's only one line
[08:17] <ivoks> i tought so too herve :)
[08:18] <\sh> back
[08:18] <DanielN> 	my $val = $model->get($widget->get_active_iter(),0);
[08:18] <ivoks> \sh: could u check one source? :>
[08:18] <\sh> $widget->get_active_iter() is not defined
[08:18] <herve> then get_active_iter returns an undef variable or value?
[08:18] <DanielN> return $val
[08:18] <\sh> herve: ^5 :)
[08:19] <doko> ivoks: pong
[08:19] <DanielN> \sh: but it's used in the source earlier to
[08:19] <herve> better having dinner than debugging perl, anyway ;-)
[08:19] <ivoks> doko: so, you are in mood for ping-pong? :)
[08:19] <DanielN> good eat herve
[08:19] <\sh> DanielN: $widget->get_active_iter() gets one element from a list
[08:20] <herve> I guess it's an iterator like in python
[08:20] <\sh> if this element is not there, it will return 0 which means something like undef
[08:20] <herve> or an iterator factory?
[08:20] <ivoks> erase that line :)
[08:20] <ogra> herve, factory ? in perl ?
[08:21] <\sh> DanielN: easy thing to do, is to ask beforehand if $widget->get_active_iter() is available or not
[08:21] <DanielN> \sh: who is beforehand ?
[08:21] <herve> ogra, a factory is just a function or class method return an instance of something
[08:21] <\sh> DanielN: something like this
[08:21] <\sh> my $val=0;
[08:21] <\sh> if ($widget->get_active_iver()) {
[08:22] <ogra> herve, just a hint, never talk about factorys in a get perl channel ;)
[08:22] <\sh> $val=$model->get($widget->get_active_iter(),0));
[08:22] <\sh> }
[08:22] <\sh> else {
[08:22] <\sh>  # raise some error dialog box or whatever
[08:22] <\sh> }
[08:22] <ivoks> print "This is a stoopid program~\n";
[08:22] <DanielN> aha
[08:23] <DanielN> mhm .. i think i leave this to the original author :)
[08:23] <DanielN> but thanks anyway
[08:23] <ivoks> why? come on... it's a script
[08:23] <\sh> those errors can happen, if you delete the pointer out of the list directly, without using the proposed function for it
[08:23] <DanielN> ok
[08:23] <\sh> .oO(and this is only a small gunshot in the dark ;))
[08:24] <DanielN> it's qemu-launcher from wich i talk .. if someone is interest in it :)
[08:24] <\sh> ok..ivoks...
[08:25] <\sh> ivoks: u will go after danieln :)
[08:25] <\sh> DanielN: "when" right? :)
[08:25] <ivoks> \sh: with what?
[08:25] <ivoks> \sh: wifi-radar? :)
[08:25] <\sh> ivoks: with your source :)
[08:25] <DanielN> theo one who should be reviewed? then yes, \sh
[08:25] <ivoks> \sh: ok
[08:26] <ivoks> i'll end up buying amd64 :(
[08:26] <ivoks> just for Cxx transition
[08:27] <\sh> dual amd64 opteron 1.xx GHz 19" server with 1GB 160GB HD == 1282 EUR
[08:28] <\sh> dvd rom included
[08:28] <\sh> 2 power supplies
[08:28] <ivoks> hm...
[08:28] <ivoks> i'll ask faculty to provide me one :)
[08:28] <herve> think about the climate too... those poor bears!
[08:29] <\sh> it's a good price
[08:29] <ivoks> i transfered two sarge servers on ubuntu
[08:29] <\sh> 1HE
[08:29] <ivoks> without reboot :)
[08:29] <\sh> DanielN: remove the *.ex files, if you don't need them..if you need them, mv {}.ex {}  \;
[08:29] <ogra> \sh, where ?
[08:30] <\sh> ogra: I saw it today in a reseller magazine
[08:30] <ogra> \sh, and what kind of cooling does it have ?
[08:30] <ivoks> what happend after replacing libc6... there are no words to describe that :)
[08:30] <\sh> ogra: I don't know,.no informations about this...but we will ask..and if it's ok, we'll buy one
[08:30] <\sh> but with 2 or 4 GB ram
[08:30] <ogra> \sh, you shouldnt buy a 1HE machine of this kind without a 19" cabinet, they are not cooled
[08:31] <\sh> ogra: we have a 19" cabinet :)
[08:31] <ogra> \sh, with air condition ?
[08:31] <\sh> ogra: sure :)
[08:31] <\sh> ogra: if you enter the hosteurope DC in cologne-gremberghoven ;) the first cabinet after the entry door :) this is ours:)
[08:32] <ogra> \sh, i'm about to buy me a build server here, i have a "non air conditioned" cabinet with just some fan's ...
[08:32] <ogra> \sh, i dont talk about hosteurope...
[08:32] <\sh> ogra: we will put this thing into our cabinet :)
[08:32] <ogra> \sh, i talk about my server room here...
[08:32] <DanielN> \sh: you mean just removing the .ex extension? (if i need them)
[08:32] <\sh> DanielN: yeah
[08:33] <\sh> or do a when.postinst when.postrm
[08:33] <\sh> etc.
[08:33] <ivoks> OOoCon 2005 in Slovenia... nice
[08:33] <\sh> this is much nicer
[08:33] <DanielN> aha
[08:33] <DanielN> ok, i'll fix it
[08:33] <\sh> ogra: well, do u need a 19" cabinet with active cooling ?
[08:34] <\sh> ogra: for your server room @home?
[08:34] <ogra> nope, just a active cooling unit for my cabinet
[08:34] <\sh> i think i can get one
[08:34] <mgalvin> sorry to butt in, do I have to reg my gpg key with a public server
[08:34] <\sh> ogra: half height?
[08:34] <\sh> ogra: or full height? i was talking about full height :)
[08:34] <ogra> 2.20m
[08:34] <ogra> mgalvin, yeps
[08:35] <ogra> jj
[08:35] <ogra> 
[08:35] <mgalvin> ogra, is there a specific server i should reg with?
[08:36] <ivoks> mgalvin: just one
[08:36] <ivoks> mgalvin: it will then spread you key to others
[08:36] <ogra> grr... damned keyboard.... just going mad...
[08:36] <mgalvin> ok, thnx
[08:36] <ogra> mgalvin, they mirror each other
[08:37] <\sh> hmm..how can I check the trustdb.gpg from /etc/apt/
[08:37] <\sh> hmmm
[08:37] <\sh> last update 10 april
[08:38] <DanielN> \sh: fixed and uploaded ;>
[08:40] <\sh> DanielN: where is the makefile for debian/patches?
[08:40] <herve> makefile?
[08:40] <herve> you just need extra rules in debian/rules
[08:41] <DanielN> thought that too, herve
[08:41] <\sh> patch-stamp:
[08:41] <\sh>         dh_testdir
[08:41] <\sh>         $(MAKE) -s -f debian/patches/Makefile patch
[08:41] <DanielN> \sh: as you said to me yesterady
[08:41] <\sh> for this u need a makefile
[08:41] <DanielN> taken it just from your source .. mhm
[08:42] <herve> haha
[08:42] <\sh> DanielN: in aspseek there is a makefile :)
[08:42] <herve> sorry :-)
[08:42] <\sh> in debian/patches :)
[08:42] <DanielN> ok
[08:42] <DanielN> mhm .. and what must contain this makefile?
[08:42] <\sh> DanielN: but it's easier to do a patch -p<N> < debian/patches/<yourpatchfile>
[08:42] <herve> why not using dpatch?
[08:42] <\sh> replace the $(MAKE) with the line i told u ;)
[08:43] <herve> (I thought you were)
[08:43] <DanielN> \sh: can you told me that line again?
[08:43] <\sh> herve: cause normal patches are much better for cdbs ;)
[08:43] <\sh> patch -p<N> < debian/patches/<yourpatchfile>
[08:43] <DanielN> ah
[08:43] <herve> what can I reply to this :-)
[08:43] <\sh> replace <N> with the 1/2/3/4 or whatever u need
[08:43] <DanielN> yourpatchfile reffers to the diff ?
[08:43] <\sh> yeah
 is revision or what?
[08:44] <ivoks> uh
[08:44] <herve> dpatch *hint* *hint*
[08:44] <ivoks>  <N> is striping number
[08:44] <ogra> \sh, again, please dont teach newcomers cdbs
[08:44] <\sh> DanielN: man patch :)
[08:44] <ogra> i'm serions here
[08:44] <ivoks> \sh: :)
[08:44] <\sh> ogra: i don't teach them cdbs :) I only tell them: use patch not dpatch :)
 herve: cause normal patches are much better for cdbs ;)
[08:45] <\sh> ogra: me too
[08:45] <ivoks> so... what's about cdbs?
[08:45] <\sh> ivoks: forget cdbs right now
[08:45] <bddebian> Hey, someone is going to have to teach me cdbs..
[08:45] <\sh> ogra: herve is not a newcomer ... but anyways
[08:45] <ivoks> \sh: ah... i'll find out by my self :)
[08:45] <ogra> ivoks, cdbs is good if you have learned all the internals.... but not before
[08:46] <\sh> I'm not telling anyone to use cds :)
[08:46] <ivoks> i understand
[08:46] <ogra> :)
[08:46] <DanielN> so what is ok now? patch?
[08:46] <ivoks> but i would just like to know what is that
[08:46] <ivoks> if i know what's atomic bomb, it doesn't mean i will use it
[08:46] <herve> ogra, ok, didn't get it was a cdbs'ed package
[08:46] <\sh> herve: it's not :)
[08:46] <herve> argh
[08:46] <ivoks> ogra: it has something to do with dpatch?
[08:46] <herve> ARGH!
[08:46] <ogra> ivoks, it builds your packages magically for you... your rules file becomes a no brainer then
[08:46] <ivoks> :))
[08:47] <\sh> DanielN: man patch .. there is the -p switch, read this section
[08:47] <ivoks> ah, ok
[08:47] <DanielN> \sh: 'll do :)
[08:47] <\sh> DanielN: or the other way.. let me explain it to you easily
[08:47] <\sh> u made the patch like this: diff -ur <unpatchedsourcetree>/ <patchedsourcetree>/
[08:48] <DanielN> yep
[08:48] <ogra> ivoks, but you get a huge amount of overhead... lots of things you dont need for small packages etc...
[08:48] <\sh> now, if debuild or pbuilder is building the package for u, u r inside the <debianized sourcetree>
[08:48] <ivoks> ogra: i realized by now that plain cp, mv, chown is best thing for small packages
[08:48] <\sh> it means, u need to use "patch -p1 < debian/patches/<your patchfile>"
[08:48] <ogra> ivoks, and the debhelper scripts....
[08:48] <DanielN> oukey .. i can follow
[08:48] <DanielN> :)
[08:48] <ivoks> ogra: thanx for clearing that out :)
[08:49] <ivoks> ogra: well, some of debhelper scripts :)
[08:49] <ogra> yep
[08:49] <DanielN> and this line i build into the rules file ...
[08:49] <\sh> ogra: something i'm missing in all this package maintaining is: info make ;)
[08:49] <DanielN> yeah .. got that \sh :)
[08:49] <\sh> DanielN: yeah, remove the $(MAKE) debian/patches/blabla
[08:50] <DanielN> and replace it with the patch line ;)
[08:50] <ogra> ivoks, sincemost of our MOTU work is _fixing_ packages and most of the packages are dh_something based, its more important to know that then cdbs...
[08:50] <ivoks> ogra: i agree
[08:51] <ivoks> ogra: don't worry, i'm not going to break anything
[08:51] <ivoks> ogra: i do want to know as much is possible about packaging
[08:51] <\sh> ogra: but i have one package with cdbs magic...and i need to to a "autoreconf" in the configure section..but this is not working :(
[08:51] <ogra> cdbs is good enough that you understand it without explanation if you know how the dh_ stuff works... thanks to jbailey :)
[08:51] <ivoks> ogra: i'm so sad that i never packaged anything, and i'm using debian for 7-8 years
[08:52] <ivoks> ogra: so i need to catch up lot's of things...
[08:52] <ogra> but you are used to the underlying system, so its not too hard....
[08:53] <ivoks> yeah, i know a lot of debian, but debian/* is a mistery :)
[08:53] <ogra> \sh, switch it to debhelper :P
[08:53] <\sh> ogra: well, the problem is more, that this guy made a relibtoolize patch
[08:54] <ogra> hrm
[08:54] <\sh> and this patch breaks the xwindow libs/includes tests
[08:54] <\sh> and it's only fixed by autoreconfigure
[08:55] <ogra> and you can write a patch to do it ?
[08:55] <ogra> cant even
[08:55] <\sh> i have to talk to Burgundavia
[08:55] <\sh> ogra: well...patch 12_relibtoolize patch 13_somebugs_patch
[08:55] <ivoks> :( doesn't look good :(
[08:55] <\sh> i have to redo all the patchwork again
[08:56] <ivoks> too many medic choppers landing in hospital...
[08:56] <ivoks> something happend :((
[08:56] <DanielN> \sh: should be ok now
[08:56] <\sh> hey tseng
[08:56] <tseng|work> hi
[08:56] <tseng|work> ogra: weird about edubuntu stalling
[08:57] <ogra> ??
[08:57] <tseng|work> ogra: jeff elkner never mailed me about a confernece he wanted me to help with either
[08:57] <tseng|work> where are all those guys
[08:57] <tseng|work> were they just supposed to do the specs?
[08:57] <ogra> i'm in contact with him
[08:57] <tseng|work> ok are you talking to jeff?
[08:57] <ogra> since i'm the lead of edubuntu now
[08:57] <tseng|work> yes :)
[08:58] <ogra> thats why i dnot have time for Cxx currently... i have to prepare a lot
[08:58] <tseng|work> ok, if you talk to jeff can you please remind him of my email
[08:58] <ogra> i'll do
[08:58] <tseng|work> i have a feeling he lost it
[08:59] <tseng|work> thanks.
[08:59] <\sh> nice
[08:59] <\sh> i packed a native package
[08:59] <\sh> *grmpf*
[09:00] <ivoks> \sh: ?
[09:01] <\sh> tseng|work: hit me hard ;)
[09:01] <ogra> \sh, is hosteurope gone ?
[09:01] <ogra> \sh, i cant traceroute my server currently
[09:01] <jbailey> ogra: Next time you and I have a chance to sit down together, I'd love to write down a list of what we think maintainers should know and maybe give them designations like "beginner intermediate and advanced"
[09:02] <ogra> jbailey, that would be great :)
[09:02] <bddebian> ack
[09:02] <\sh> hmm
[09:02] <jbailey> ogra: It would be interesting not so much from a certification POV, but to give people a roadmap to follow when learning packaging.
[09:02] <ogra> yep
[09:02] <bddebian> How about sub-beginner? :-)
[09:02] <tseng|work> jbailey: it can correspond to pages in the developers intro
[09:02] <jbailey> bddebian: If you don't know how to load a web browser to read the docs, the questions are out of scope. =)
[09:02] <ogra> they should read debiansNM guide first :)
[09:02] <\sh> ogra: no...i think they put a icmp filter
[09:03] <ogra> \sh, my traceroute ends here : ker-uplink.hosteurope.de (134.222.99.34)  63.232 ms  63.323 ms  63.082 ms
[09:03] <\sh> 5:  ge-bb-pg1-13.netcologne.de (81.173.192.163)          asymm  6  98.454ms
[09:03] <\sh>  6:  195.14.213.222 (195.14.213.222)                      asymm  7 101.532ms
[09:03] <\sh>  7:  194.8.214.238 (194.8.214.238)                        asymm  9  99.295ms
[09:03] <ogra> \sh, i wont pay them if they put a icmp server in front of my server
[09:03] <\sh>  8:  no reply
[09:03] <ivoks> plonk even :)
[09:03] <ogra> s/server/filter
[09:04] <\sh> hmm
[09:04] <\sh> ogra: u have access to KIS?
[09:04] <\sh> hmm
[09:04] <\sh> KIS is gone
[09:04] <ivoks> ah, tierd...
[09:04] <ogra> \sh, i'll have to dig some hours to find my access data
[09:05] <ivoks> bye folks
[09:05] <\sh> ogra: it's down anyways...so they are changing some things
[09:05] <ogra> \sh, i used it two times in 3 years
[09:05] <ogra> yes, they sent out a mail about that... but that didnt say the server access would be gone...
[09:05] <ivoks> gaim is noing on my nervs
[09:05] <\sh> ogra: u can ssh to it
[09:05] <\sh> its there
[09:05] <ogra> \sh, hwdb.ubuntu.com is running on my server
[09:06] <ivoks> i have two lists, one with friends and other with buddys
[09:06] <\sh> hmmm?
[09:06] <\sh> ogra: i can access our servers...
[09:06] <\sh> ogra: but yours not
[09:06] <bddebian> jbailey: :)
[09:07] <\sh> ogra: call them that network 217.115.139.0/24 is not reachable anymore
[09:14] <\sh> ogra: u know something, dh_make is including this nasty copy of config.{guess,sub} into the clean: target of the debian/rules file
[09:15] <ogra> phone...
[09:15] <tseng|work> dh_make sucks
[09:15] <tseng|work> you need to edit most everything
[09:16] <\sh> tseng|work: but it's in the debina NM
[09:16] <tseng|work> yeah yeah
[09:16] <tseng|work> you need to use it I guess
[09:16] <tseng|work> but i dont keep any of t he files it makes
[09:16] <tseng|work> they are shit
[09:17] <tseng|work> we could make a nicer skeleton package
[09:17] <tseng|work> brb
[09:19] <\sh> tseng|work: this would be better to make a new skeleton package
[09:20] <\sh> oh men
[09:20] <\sh> queen concert wembley 1986
[09:20] <\sh> "we will stay on stage until we die"
[09:29] <herve> and a python package skeleton
[09:35] <\sh> nice..qinx compiled and packaged for kde-3.4.1
[09:41] <mgalvin> ok, i was able to build the package last night, but I went and installed a whole bunch of the lib and *-dev packages and now I am getting this build error...
[09:42] <mgalvin> gcc -Wall -O2 main.o gnome-clipboard-daemon.o selection-data-list.o -o gnome-clipboard-daemon `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0`
[09:42] <mgalvin> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/../../../crt1.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
[09:42] <mgalvin> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[09:42] <mgalvin> i can prolly figure it out, but wondered if anyone has seen this before
[09:43] <mgalvin> before i dig to deep
[09:44] <mgalvin> maybe I installed some version of a lib that I shouldn't have?
[09:55] <\sh> hmm...I will rewrite arkrpg to debhelper ;)
[09:56] <\sh> jbailey: ping
[09:57] <jbailey> \sh: here
[09:57] <\sh> jbailey: i have a problem with one package which is using cdbs magic
[09:58] <\sh> when is the simplepatchsys activated...before or after configure target?
[09:58] <jbailey> before.
[09:58] <\sh> ok
[09:59] <\sh> now, if i have a source packages wich builds lets say: package libpackage libpackage-dev and I have to run autoreconf in the configure target, in which rule i should hook it?
[10:00] <\sh> configure/package:: or configure/libpackage:: ?
[10:12] <herve> mgalvin, I have no idea
[10:15] <\sh> wrong compiler version for the shared lib=
[10:15] <\sh> ?
[10:19] <tseng|work> man i thought i was threw having people past in failed GCC lines when i left gentoo
[10:19] <tseng|work> *paste
[10:22] <mgalvin> yea, sorry for the noise, i only asked b/c it seems somehow a lib i installed from main brakes the compliation
[10:22] <tseng|work> thats part of GCC
[10:22] <tseng|work>  /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/../../../crt1.o
[10:23] <tseng|work> we are using GCC 4.0 for most everything now so im not sure what you are doing
[10:23] <tseng|work> hoary I guess
[10:23] <mgalvin> right
[10:23] <tseng|work> if you are building from source on hoary, thats not really our area
[10:24] <tseng|work> if you needed help packaging for breezy and got that, you'd be in the right spot
[10:24] <tseng|work> that message is kind of worrying about the state of your toolchain, my first thought would be apt-get install --reinstall gcc
[10:25] <tseng|work> not sure though.
[10:25] <mgalvin> i am learning to build the packages, and am currently using hoary, when I figure out what I am doing i would like to start helping out building breezy packages
[10:25] <mgalvin> i will try that
[10:29] <herve> mgalvin, you can use a chroot to keep your system fine
[10:31] <mgalvin> herve, i think i may try that
[10:32] <mgalvin> tseng|work, no go reinstalling gcc didn't do anything, thnx anyway
[10:33] <mgalvin> gotta run for now, thnx for the help, cia l8r
[10:34] <herve> hey, a shell with syntax highlighting
[10:34] <herve> and online help
[10:35] <jamessan> fish?
[10:35] <\sh> herve: what?
[10:36] <herve> jamessan, yes
[10:36] <herve> http://lwn.net/Articles/136232/
[10:36] <MarioOs> hello
[10:36] <jamessan> herve: yup, I'm packaging that for Debian.  just waiting for jbailey to sponsor the upload
[10:36] <herve> woohoo!
[10:37] <\sh> ask herve dude ;)
[10:37] <\sh> reviewed? ;)
[10:37] <jamessan> it's up on mentors
[10:37] <jamessan> jbailey's been my sponsor for other things, so I just bugged him about it
[10:38] <\sh> ah :)
[10:38] <herve> mentors?
[10:38] <herve> can't find it
[10:38] <jamessan> mentors.debian.net
[10:38] <\sh> .oO(why i want to write every time emlo instead of elmo)
[10:39] <herve> ho, I thought about the debian-mentors list
[10:39] <jamessan> close, but no cigar  ;)
[10:40] <tseng|work> uh
[10:40] <tseng|work> bash and zsh both do history searching just fine
[10:40] <tseng|work> you can even bind it to the up arrow
[10:40] <tseng|work> and they dont make up their own shell language either, wow
[10:41] <jamessan> tseng|work: the difference is you can start typing any part of a previous command and then hit up
[10:41] <herve> hey, like the vim history!
[10:41] <tseng|work> jamessan: so can bash, if i bind the key that way
[10:41] <tseng|work> i just said that
[10:42] <jamessan> tseng|work: I was under the impression you had to enter search mode with bash first.  my mistake
[10:43] <tseng|work> nope
[10:43] <tseng|work> i have it bound to page up at the moment
[10:43] <tseng|work> but up arrow could work just as well
[10:43] <jamessan> anyway, I like the syntax highlighting it does. e.g., "somecommand | grep foo" will highlight foo in the results
[10:43] <tseng|work> see the commented examples in /etc/inputrc
[10:43] <tseng|work> time to go home, yay
[10:44] <tseng|work> have fun with your fish :)
[10:44] <herve> by the way...
[10:46] <herve> doko: ping
[10:46] <doko> herve: pong
[10:47] <herve> did you notice the python2.3 console lost its readline features?
[10:47] <herve> or is it just me...
[10:51] <doko> strange, yes. same with python2.2. could you file a bug report?
[10:51] <herve> sure
[10:52] <herve> I checked python2.3 on my unstable box, and it's ok
[10:53] <herve> doko, or would it be related to the key bindings bugs?
[10:53] <herve> but I was told it involves the ctrl key
[10:53] <doko> then why does python2.4 work?
[10:54] <herve> good point
[11:09] <herve> what a comfort firefox opens thunderbird mail redaction windows on the click on a mailto link
[11:10] <ivoks> ff1.1?
[11:10] <herve> no, breezy one
[11:11] <herve> you want my secret? ;-)
[11:11] <ivoks> well, it opens evolution for me :)
[11:11] <herve> well, good thing the integration is well done with "official" packages
[11:13] <ivoks> where did you found mailto: links?
[11:13] <ivoks> i opend 10 pages... no mailto links :))
[11:13] <herve> debian bugs pages
[11:14] <ivoks> heh...
[11:15] <ivoks> should be no problem converting this to thunderbird
[11:15] <ivoks> just select it as default mail client
[11:15] <ivoks> and that's it
[11:15] <herve> that's what I thought
[11:15] <herve> but firefox will just make thunderbird open a new sssion
[11:15] <herve> and tb would complain the default one is already in use
[11:17] <ivoks> do you want to see one very nasty mozilla/firefox/thunderbird bug?
[11:17] <ivoks> start firefox as root, via sudo or su
[11:17] <herve> what an idea!
[11:17] <herve> :-)
[11:17] <ivoks> don't open any page, just start it
[11:18] <ivoks> leave it open and start firefox as a user
[11:18] <ivoks> woho! now you have user's firefox with root privlegdes
[11:18] <jamessan> heh
[11:19] <herve> you were right
[11:19] <herve> nice one!
[11:19] <ivoks> same with thunderbird and mozilla
[11:19] <ivoks> i reported that year ago..
[11:19] <ivoks> noone cared...
[11:20] <ivoks> mozilla doesn't check who is the owner of running session
[11:20] <ivoks> it just opens new window in same session
[11:20] <ivoks> stoopid
[11:21] <ivoks> heh, same thing with 1.1 :(
[11:22] <ivoks> man... i will repackage fai
[11:22] <ivoks> it isn't ubuntunized
[11:23] <ivoks> Failed getting release file http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/sarge/Release
[11:23] <ivoks> heh :)
[11:23] <ogra> ivoks, hsprang already did
[11:23] <ivoks> yeah?
[11:23] <ivoks> damn... :)
[11:24] <ogra> ivoks, look at the ToReview page, it must be there anywhere
[11:24] <ivoks> where is it?
[11:24] <ivoks> ok
[11:24] <ogra> or on the NEW package...
[11:24] <ogra> it isnt breezy-ized yet....
[11:24] <ivoks> maybe i could help him
[11:25] <ogra> yep... ask him if he comes around
[11:25] <ogra> he works tight with the fai developer on it afaik
[11:25] <ivoks> nice
[11:26] <ivoks> :( he has wrong package naming
[11:26] <ogra> sad
[11:26] <ivoks> fai_2.6.6ubuntu1.tar.gz
[11:27] <ogra> (i didnt look at them yet)
[11:27] <chillywilly> how many here work for canonical?
[11:27] <ivoks> ogra: i'll contact him and we will do it better
[11:27] <ogra> ivoks, i think it might be a native package, even upstream...
[11:28] <ogra> so he probably didnt want to change that to stay compatible with upstream...
[11:28] <herve> another reason to work tight with the developer ;-)
[11:28] <ogra> heh
[11:29] <ivoks> uh...
[11:29] <ivoks> this is ugly ugly package
[11:29] <ivoks> pardon, source
[11:29] <ivoks> it extracts in changed dir (?)
[11:29] <ogra> ivoks, ask henning if he's around again...
[11:29] <ivoks> changed, that's the name of dir
[11:30] <ivoks> i will
[11:30] <ivoks> i'll send him an email
[11:30] <ogra> he might have reasons to do that
[11:30] <chillywilly> man, I really want to go home...
[11:30] <ogra> yep
[11:30] <chillywilly> :)
[11:30] <chillywilly> flash...aaaah aaaaah....defender of the universe...
[11:30] <ogra> heh
[11:31] <herve> reminds me a nice joke
[11:31] <herve> photograph without or with flash?
[11:31] <chillywilly> with please
[11:31] <herve> the latter had the hero himself on the photo :-)
[11:32] <chillywilly> wasn't there some show called He-Man Masters of teh Universe?
[11:32] <chillywilly> the*
[11:32] <herve> no s
[11:32] <herve> I never watched that series
[11:33] <chillywilly> it was a He-Man movie I think
[11:33] <ogra> herve, did ajmitch talk to you about the MOTUPython page ?
[11:33] <herve> nope
[11:33] <chillywilly> he's lives upside down so he's probably sleeping
[11:34] <chillywilly> (NZ)
[11:34] <chillywilly> ;^P
[11:34] <\sh> ok guys...time to sleep...
[11:34] <ogra> i was asked by some people why the page is this empty.... could one of you please take the teamlead and make something up on the page 1-2 sentences and a leader should be enough
[11:34] <ogra> herve ^^
[11:34] <herve> got it ;-)
[11:35] <ogra> great.... :)
[11:35] <herve> though it's not an official acceptance of the lead
[11:35] <herve> but interim lead for the week-end, sure
[11:35] <chillywilly> um
[11:35] <chillywilly> is it time to go home yet?
[11:36] <ogra> herve, who ever comes first and is a MOTU :)
[11:36] <herve> chillywilly, already the weekend for me ;-)
[11:36] <ogra> ....is qualified as a leader ....
[11:36] <herve> leading the walk or leading a team...
[11:36] <ivoks> there is it again
[11:36] <ivoks> notes:
[11:37] <chillywilly> herve: are you one of those upside down people?
[11:37] <ivoks>  learn more about cdbs - common build system for Debian packages
[11:37] <ivoks> :))
[11:37] <herve> chillywilly: there's no upside down in space
[11:37] <chillywilly> people who live in AU or NZ are upside down ;)
[11:37] <chillywilly> sheesh
[11:37] <herve> ivoks, learning more doesn't mean the tools fits your needs!
[11:37] <ivoks> herve: that;s from: http://www.sprang.de/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_install_with_FAI
[11:38] <chillywilly> anyway, it's a joke...one can only appreciate it when they learn not to try and analyze it scientifically
[11:38] <herve> yo daniel!
[11:38] <ogra> ivoks, heh
[11:38] <dholbach> hey
[11:38] <ogra> hi dholbach
[11:38] <ivoks> dholbach: hi
[11:38] <herve> ivoks: too much words for me at this time!
[11:38] <dholbach> could anybody get the one or other line together for the MOTU report?
[11:39] <dholbach> just some random lines about stuff you *still can* remember about the last month ;)))
[11:39] <herve> dholbach: I'll set up a paragraph like I did last time
[11:39] <herve> but tomorrow
[11:39] <dholbach> ROCK
[11:39] <chillywilly> N' ROLL
[11:39] <herve> does it have to rhyme? :-)
[11:39] <dholbach> hahahah
[11:39] <dholbach> that would be PRETTY cool
[11:40] <dholbach> i'd rhyme the rest as well
[11:40] <chillywilly> anyone run Ubuntu as a server?
[11:40] <ogra> yep
[11:40] <herve> not yet
[11:40] <chillywilly> and it's not my money!
[11:40] <herve> I have to migrate my mail system
[11:41] <dholbach> i think i will keep one debian machine :)
[11:41] <ogra> i'm not running my mainserver on ubuntu yet...
[11:41] <chillywilly> $10,620 to be exact
[11:41] <chillywilly> USD
[11:41] <chillywilly> me neither
[11:41] <herve> for what's worth the usd ;-)
[11:41] <chillywilly> it's debian
[11:41] <ogra> but have two running here... they run fine....
[11:41] <\sh> chillywilly: i'm running ubuntu as a server
[11:41] <\sh> production state
[11:42] <chillywilly> ok
[11:42] <chillywilly> 15 more minutes and my weekend starts
[11:42] <chillywilly> lallala
[11:42] <\sh> chillywilly: u need some hints how stable it is?
[11:42] <ogra> chillywilly, all ubuntu.com servers run on ubuntu indeed (imagine the load)
[11:42] <ivoks> ubuntu is just fine on server
[11:42] <ivoks> as much as debian is
[11:42] <ogra> yep, but newer
[11:42] <chillywilly> just curious
[11:43] <ivoks> they have same packages
[11:43] <\sh> the only thing whats missing
[11:43] <\sh> an actual package for cyrus-imapd
[11:43] <chillywilly> I should purchase some support contracts
[11:43] <ivoks> why would anyone want that?!
[11:43] <ogra> yeah
[11:43] <\sh> and this is in debian-experimental...it's running on my server3
[11:43] <herve> ivoks: debian stable != ubuntu stable
[11:43] <ivoks> get your self a dovecot
[11:43] <chillywilly> um, cause it id for the company I work for
[11:43] <chillywilly> is*
[11:43] <ivoks> herve: i know :)
[11:44] <dholbach> and another X nearly compiled to the end
[11:44] <chillywilly> jbailey: Jeffy, how much is a support contract?
[11:44] <dholbach> FUN :)
[11:44] <jbailey> chillywilly: How many systems, desktop or servers?
[11:44] <ivoks> \sh: try dovecot
[11:44] <chillywilly> 2 servers
[11:44] <chillywilly> maybe 1 desktop
[11:44] <\sh> ogra: qinx-1.4 is kde-3.4.1 ready...updated on my ubuntu page ;)
[11:44] <\sh> ivoks: what is it?
[11:44] <\sh> something to eat?
[11:44] <ivoks> \sh: the best imap/pop3 daemon
[11:44] <jbailey> chillywilly: We have two options for response times, basically standard support and platinum support.
[11:45] <jbailey> chillywilly: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/supportoptions/paidsupport has the breakdown.
[11:45] <chillywilly> well, assuming that I don't REALLY want the support I can just get standard ;)
[11:45] <\sh> ivoks: ah...i'm running cyrus since redhat :) it's working  together with postfix and ssl/tls and everything i need..inclusive mysql
[11:45] <ogra> \sh, dove = taube, cot = huette (taubenschlag)
[11:46] <ivoks> \sh: i run postfix ssl/tls too :)
[11:46] <\sh> ogra: u see,..something to eat ;)
[11:46] <ogra> nope, the home of the doves
[11:46] <\sh> ivoks: but not together in one mysql table ;)
[11:46] <jbailey> chillywilly: Right. =)
[11:46] <\sh> ogra: but the doves i can eat ;)
[11:46] <ivoks> \sh: no, but dovecot supports mysql
[11:46] <\sh> don't take me serious now :)
[11:46] <chillywilly> $800...that still fits in our budget I think
[11:46] <ivoks> ah... stay blind :)
[11:46] <jbailey> chillywilly: That's a useful option for places that are required to get support contracts, and migh thave the odd question here or there, but never at 2am. =)
[11:46] <chillywilly> cause the servers I just purchase were like $1k less
[11:47] <\sh> ivoks: i'm not changing right now...i have a 4GB spool of mails...not only for me...so it's better not to change my running system
[11:47] <ivoks> \sh: i agree
[11:47] <chillywilly> only think is I did not include it in our recommendation because I had not planned on spending any money whatsoever for software
[11:47] <chillywilly> thing*
[11:48] <\sh> but anyways...cu guys tomorrow ... g'night gents
[11:48] <ivoks> i had 10GB of mailbox style spool
[11:48] <dholbach> bye \sh, sleep tight
[11:48] <ogra> night \sh
[11:48] <herve> I have... hey, 10 MB!
[11:48] <ivoks> converted it to maildir and installed dovecot in 2-3 hours
[11:48] <herve> night \sh
[11:48] <ivoks> never had problems with mail anymore :)
[11:49] <DanielN> night \sh
[11:49] <ivoks> \sh: bye :)
[11:49] <herve> isn't dovecot the default one in fedora?
[11:50] <jbailey> chillywilly: Right, but in many cases employers expect softare costs to be on top of hardware.  It's always worth asking.
[11:50] <ivoks> herve: dovecot is quite fresh app
[11:50] <ivoks> herve: so i think it's not... but, maybe i'm wrong
[11:51] <ivoks> but, it works like a beauty
[11:51] <ivoks> no more big loads
[11:51] <ivoks> no more lost mails
[11:51] <herve> I'll try
[11:51] <ivoks> and switch to maildir
[11:51] <herve> I was looking for a replacement to qmail/vpopmail/bincimap lately
[11:51] <herve> night all
[11:51] <ivoks> your server will like you couse of that :)
[11:51] <DanielN> nicht herve
[11:52] <ivoks> herve: night
[11:52] <ogra> night herve
[11:52] <DanielN> *lol* night
[11:52] <dholbach> X is ready (gain
[11:52] <dholbach> (again)
[11:52] <herve> ivoks: I hope so, it's only a via c3 800!
[11:52] <dholbach> keep your fingers crossed :)
[11:52] <herve> dholbach: you fixed it?
[11:52] <dholbach> no... it just finished building
[11:52] <herve> ha, just finished building
[11:52] <ivoks> herve: then maildir is musthave
[11:52] <herve> ivoks: I already have it
[11:52] <ivoks> herve: if u need help, contact me
[11:52] <ivoks> ok then :)
[11:53] <dholbach> see you (hopefully) in a minute
[11:53] <herve> ivoks: but procmail config with vhosts and mail delivery were my concerns
[11:53] <dholbach> *wave*
[11:53] <herve> ivoks: I was trying to find the perfect match
[11:53] <herve> which courier didn't seem to fulfill
[11:53] <herve> s/procmail/postfix
[11:53] <ivoks> herve: maildir+postfix+amavisd+dovecot+spamassassin+nod32
[11:54] <ivoks> +razor+clamav...
[11:54] <herve> looks like what I want
[11:54] <ivoks> herve: http://www.grad.hr/amavis-stats/
[11:54] <herve> but no spam+virus filter in the first iteration
[11:54] <ivoks> every mail goes trough 3 virus scanners
[11:54] <ivoks> load is allways 0.05
[11:54] <ivoks> :)
[11:55] <herve> impressive
[11:55] <herve> argh! I can't go to bed without knowing if X is fixed!
[11:55] <ivoks> :)
[11:55] <ivoks> buy WIFI AP :)
[11:56] <ivoks> then u'll be in bed :)
[11:56] <herve> I have wifi
[11:56] <ivoks> then, watch for X from bed :)
[11:56] <herve> but computerish is "persona non grata" in bed
[11:57] <ivoks> :)
[11:57] <herve> there's a time for everything
[11:57] <ivoks> ok
[11:57] <herve> ivoks: what is nod32?
[11:57] <ivoks> ?
[11:57] <ivoks> that's a joke?
[11:57] <herve> you said that name :-)
[11:58] <ivoks> you don't know it?
[11:58] <DanielN> someone knows a good wallpaper adress .. something summerlike maybe? :)
[11:58] <ivoks> it AV... one of the best, if not the best
[11:58] <herve> now I do, google found it :-)
[11:58] <herve> I was searching in packages.debian.org
[11:58] <ivoks> :)))
[11:58] <ivoks> it's not free :)
[11:58] <herve> DanielN: I found nature wallpapers in the "other" category on art.gnome.org
[11:59] <DanielN> herve: thanks ;)
[11:59] <ivoks> i have forest with sign "ubuntu - its coming. can you hear it?"
[11:59] <ivoks> very very nice
[12:00] <herve> I fetch the art.gnome.org rss feed, nice feature
[12:00] <ivoks> DanielN: http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=264&original=1&c=5