[12:18] <kent> This is perhaps OT, but while creating a control file for a .deb package, I stumbled over the fact that it wont install if I depend on libgtk2.0. Whats the correct line to get it to depend on libgtk2.0? 
[12:21] <dholbach> ROCK
[12:21] <dholbach> IT WORKS :)
[12:22] <dholbach> haha... the ctrl-keys work :)
[12:23] <tseng> dholbach: hm?
[12:23] <dholbach> bug #10942
[12:24] <dholbach> one of the two most annoying bugs atm :)
[12:24] <tseng> yep
[12:25] <dholbach> this makes me happy :)
[12:26] <tseng> good job
[12:26] <dholbach> roderich's job :)
[12:48] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:01] <jordi> fun, alsa 1.0.9
[01:09] <srbaker> mozilla is quite broken after my upgrade today
[01:09] <srbaker> i keep getting XML parsing erros on the chrom
[01:09] <srbaker> chrome
[01:13] <camilotelles> mdz, hey there
[01:19] <tseng> srbaker: did you happen to restart the browser completely?
[01:19] <srbaker> ahh, maybe not.  i forget
[01:19] <srbaker> just did ti now
[01:19] <tseng> pretty well known issue, #ubuntu next time
[01:38] <camilotelles> mdz, do you have some time to talk about some QA activities and other stuff?
[02:21] <mdz> camilotelles: sure
[02:34] <camilotelles> mdz: here or ubuntu-meeting or private?
[02:34] <mdz> camilotelles: here is fine
[02:35] <camilotelles> ok. kiko talked to me about the script and the problems with the code. I agree totally.
[02:36] <camilotelles> I agree with the idea of our group to do some QA to the installer.
[02:38] <camilotelles> we have some machines here, and we can help to test in some diferents motherboards, processors and architetures. We receive some stuff right after or before the launch. Ex: we had one intel engineering motherboard last week with us to do some testing. And next week we will receive a new Athlon 64 motherboard from MSI
[02:40] <mdz> camilotelles: sounds good
[02:40] <camilotelles> mdz: We want to test/use the OEM stuff too.
[02:41] <mdz> camilotelles: Kamion should be your contact for OEMInstaller
[02:41] <KaiL> if you want something, that breaks, get Asus (or play with silly SATA controllers...)
[02:41] <camilotelles> this last machine had an SATA. 
[02:42] <camilotelles> s/an SATA/a SATA/
[02:42] <camilotelles> and the final performance was less than using it with IDE.
[02:42] <camilotelles> we don't have access for ASUS stuff. we have access for MSI and Intel stuff.
[02:42] <KaiL> camilotelles: but intel SATA controller? that one seams to be rather unproblematic. Get some SiS- or ATI-Crap :)
[02:43] <camilotelles> Maybe in this Athlon motherboard we will have some SiS or ATI. I will know in the monday.
[02:44] <KaiL> nVidia is a bit more common :)
[02:44] <KaiL> ..and seams to work perfect, as long as the Bios doesn't break anything
[02:45] <camilotelles> mdz: we want to have a Ubuntu i386 repository here. Maybe I can in the future be a public repository. We have a good internet connection but i have to negotiate with more people about this use.
[02:45] <KaiL> even more EVERYTHING seams to work, as long as the Bios doesn't break anything......:(
[02:45] <mdz> camilotelles: if you decide that you want to be an official mirror, talk to elmo
[02:48] <camilotelles> mdz. Ok. it's possible to us build the live CD from repository? how can I do this? 
[02:48] <mdz> camilotelles: not in a straightforward way.  why?
[02:52] <camilotelles> mdz: we want to customize the live  CD. change some packages, add some brazilian stuff. Our idea is to generate two ISO's. One exactly egual to the original ISO and another with our stuff.
[02:52] <mdz> camilotelles: www.ubuntu.com/wiki/LiveCDCustomization
[02:53] <mdz> you don't need to rebuild from scratch; you can customize the ISO
[02:54] <camilotelles> mdz: it's exactly the way that we do today, but we don't like it.
[02:55] <mdz> camilotelles: it is much simpler
[02:55] <mdz> camilotelles: what is the problem that you have with it?
[02:56] <camilotelles> mdz: because we think that this way is ok to do an one time customization. But if we want to track the changes is very complicated because of the possible modifications in the base ISO.
[02:58] <mdz> camilotelles: it seems just as complicated to track changes if you build from scratch: if you are only modifying packages, it is easy in both cases, and if you are doing something other than modifying packages, the issues are the identical
[02:59] <camilotelles> today we implemented this  using the knoppix. we integrated the one build process that we take a ISO image from the knoppix, customize it and generate a new ISO in one unique step. 
[03:00] <camilotelles> mdz: All the stuff that we add to the ISO is inside one subversion repository.
[03:00] <mdz> camilotelles: why can you not do the same with ubuntu?
[03:01] <camilotelles> mdz: Our idea is to put the build process of the live CD inside the subversion. We think this will increment our configuration management.
[03:02] <mdz> camilotelles: it seems to me like additional complexity without additional benefit
[03:15] <camilotelles> mdz: Don't you think that we being able to follow the diferences of a live CD to another during the development might make our life easier in the customization process? How can we identify if any customization that we did is conflicting with something that was generated by the main build of live CD.
[03:15] <camilotelles> mdz: we have this kind of problem today with the knoppix.
[03:15] <mdz> camilotelles: I understand your concern, but building the live CD from scratch does not address this problem
[03:15] <mdz> camilotelles: perhaps you can give me a specific example of a scenario where it helps?
[03:16] <camilotelles> we use some package that disappears from the original ISO.
[03:19] <camilotelles> mdz: our we change some script that is changed in the original ISO.
[03:19] <camilotelles> mdz: if we do it, only once, is easy. If we do it in a process we have to track down without help from an changelog.
[03:20] <mdz> camilotelles: if you use a package, you should declare aa dependency on it
[03:20] <mdz> then there is no problem
[03:20] <camilotelles> mdz: we generate our customizated ISO everyday for some kind of smoke test.
[03:21] <mdz> or if you want a stable base where that will never happen, you can use Ubuntu 5.04
[03:22] <camilotelles> mdz: why you think this is a bad idea?
[03:22] <mdz> camilotelles: because it is complex and fragile, and we already do it for you
[03:23] <camilotelles> do you have any changelog from one version to the other?
[03:23] <mdz> I can't understand why you would want to do this
[03:23] <mdz> one version of what to the other?
[03:24] <mdz> I don't think I am understanding you very well
[03:24] <camilotelles> development versions. do you build daily?
[03:24] <mdz> yes, we usually build a new live CD daily
[03:24] <mdz> currently it is disabled
[03:25] <mdz> development versions of what?
[03:25] <mdz> of the entire distribution?
[03:25] <camilotelles> nope. the live CD.
[03:25] <mdz> if so, no, we cannot possibly have a changelog
[03:25] <mdz> every day there are hundreds of packages changed, including new versions from upstream
[03:26] <tseng> camilotelles: eh the livecd is largely affected by the packages that are seeded being changed
[03:26] <tseng> only during early development is there constant change to casper, di and friends
[03:26] <mdz> I don't have any instructions I can give you for building the live CD, but I really think it is not the best way to accomplish your goals
[03:27] <camilotelles> mdz: I'm starting to agree with you.
[03:27] <camilotelles> mdz: when something breaks the build how do you track it down with hundreds of changes?
[03:28] <mdz> camilotelles: when something breaks the build, we read the log and diagnose the problem
[03:28] <camilotelles> mdz: build log?
[03:29] <mdz> yes
[03:30] <camilotelles> mdz: I'll forget about this idea to duplicate this build process here. I will port our solution to ubuntu and start the customization stuff.
[03:30] <tseng> camilotelles: hey be on the lookout at mono-live.com
[03:31] <tseng> camilotelles: he is planning to post the scripts he used in the process to simplify building
[03:31] <tseng> im sure you already read luis's work on the wiki?
[03:31] <robertc> mjg59: pinghttp://gmail.google.com/gmail
[03:32] <robertc> bah
[03:32] <robertc> mjg59: ping
[03:34] <camilotelles> mdz:I'll talk with elmo about the repository and Kamion about the QA for the installer and OEM.
[03:34] <camilotelles> mdz: thanks for your patience.
[03:34] <mdz> camilotelles: no problem, let me know if you have further questions
[03:34] <camilotelles> tseng: I'll be looking at it. thanks too.
[03:36] <camilotelles> tseng: what wiki?
[03:36] <tseng> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo/
[03:37] <camilotelles> tseng: yes, we already do something very similar in our work with knoppix.
[03:37] <camilotelles> tseng: we had automated it and 
[03:38] <camilotelles> tseng: we put all our customizable stuff inside subversion and do everything in one reproducible step.
[03:39] <tseng> great.
[03:40] <camilotelles> tseng: we can generate every ISO since the beginning of our work.
[03:41] <tseng> hi ankur 
[03:42] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hey dudde
[03:57] <tseng> +1 funny, the wordpress guys are promoting mod_security
[08:44] <fabbione> morning
[08:54] <\sh> hey fabbione 
[08:58] <srbaker> yo.  can i burn DVD+R discs with a default install?
[09:00] <Lathiat> srbaker: yep
[09:01] <srbaker> Lathiat, in gnomebaker, it only lists -, so i wasn't sure if it knew how to do both
[09:01] <srbaker> and it won't list "DVD image" only "CD image"
[09:01] <Lathiat> srbaker: youc an either right click an iso in nautilus to write it to cd or open the cd creator (comes up when you insert a blank disk) -- Also these questions are suited to #ubuntu, this channel is for development discussion
[09:01] <Lathiat> srbaker: theres no difference really ones just bigger than the other
[09:01] <srbaker> wait.  if i right click the iso and choose "write to disc" it burns it as an image?
[09:01] <srbaker> cool!
[09:01] <srbaker> Lathiat, there are compatibility and formatting differences, but i'm aware of those
[09:02] <Lathiat> srbaker: -> #ubuntu please
[09:02] <mvo> ping ogra 
[09:19] <cartman> yay daniels =) /me checked his bugzilla mail for #10942
[10:26] <bob2> does apache2 Just Work with files > 2GB these days?
[10:27] <elmo> no
[10:28] <elmo> enabling LFS is an ABI bump (-> all modules recompiled, pkg name changes, etc.), so it hasn't been done for apache2 yet
[10:28] <\sh> is it planned for breezy?
[10:29] <\sh> elmo: btw...thx :)
[10:29] <fabbione> hey elmo
[10:29] <elmo> hey fabbione 
[10:29] <elmo> \sh: np
[10:29] <elmo> \sh: and, I don't know offhand, sorry
[10:30] <bob2> elmo: ah, thanks
[10:30] <\sh> elmo: we should put it on the list ;)
[10:31] <elmo> I know the 2.1 packages enable it by default, but I don't know what the release timetable for 2.1 is
[10:31] <elmo> (this is why *.ubuntu.com with > 2Gb files is using 2.1...)
[10:37] <zyga> hello :-)
[10:38] <zyga> this is probably due to transition but I thought I should ask
[10:38] <zyga> zyga@falcon:~$ sudo dpkg --configure metacity
[10:38] <zyga> Setting up metacity (2.10.1-1ubuntu2) ...
[10:38] <zyga> update-alternatives: slave link name /usr/share/man/man1/x-window-manager.1.gz duplicated
[10:38] <zyga> shoud I file a bug?
[10:41] <\sh> fck
[10:41] <\sh> it happened again...dput is broken
[10:41] <zyga> \sh: ?
[10:42] <\sh> i forgot to say "dput ubuntu" so now what happens? it uploads to debian (doko will kill me this time)
[10:43] <\sh> but in the /etc/dput.cf the default_host_main is not set and therefor it takes the first host in the list
[10:43] <\sh> ftp-master of debian in this case 
[10:43] <zyga> \sh: I see :>
[10:43] <\sh> i'm really annoyed of this
[10:43] <\sh> this shouldn't be the default behaviour
[10:44] <\sh> ha..now i'm a bit *censored* 
[10:45] <zyga> \sh: that's pretty annoying I guess :-)
[10:45] <\sh> now i have to appologize to the debian devs...*hardstuff*
[10:45] <zyga> \sh: do you think I should file a bug about that duplicated thing above?
[10:45] <\sh> zyga: why not :)
[10:47] <fabbione> elmo: do you happen to remember the binary link policy for biarch? example: package foo and libfoo libfoo64. to which lib foo should link?
[10:48] <fabbione> elmo: or should i provide foo64? given that having 64 libs without binaries is pointless
[10:48] <elmo> fabbione: unless there's a major performance reason to do so, link to libfoo
[10:48] <elmo> the poing of 64 bit libs is to enable people to compile stuff that cares (e.g. postgres or something) 64-bit
[10:49] <elmo> s/poing/point/
[10:49] <elmo> at least, that's how I understand things for our current hybrid arches (sparc, powerpc) where 64-bit isn't enough of a benefit to do it by default
[10:49] <zyga> \sh: done, #11273
[10:50] <fabbione> elmo: right.. i was talking exactly about sparc and ppc64 ...
[10:52] <fabbione> elmo: thanks :)
[10:53] <elmo> np
[11:00] <Treenaks> Agh.. 20th person this week in #ubuntu-nl who thinks swap is only for people with <512M RAM
[11:01] <mdke> sounds like you have a busy channel there
[11:01] <Treenaks> mdke: it is quite busy, yes
[11:02] <mdke> cool
[11:09] <\sh> is python-qt3 moved to universe now? 
[11:21] <ogra> mvo pung
[11:21] <ogra> *yawn*
[11:22] <mdke> where could this page be parented? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UpdateManager
[11:25] <mvo> hey ogra! good morning :)
[11:26] <mvo> ogra: do you have a train now? will we be in the same train
[11:26] <ogra> mvo, i'm just opening my eyes...
[11:30] <mvo> ogra: hehe :)
[11:30] <ogra> mvo, if i make it to get the train at 2:24pm, i'll be on the same ICE
[11:34] <mvo> ogra: I use the ice at 14:49 (at bochum)
[11:35] <ogra> mvo, i have to get to cologne first....
[11:37] <mvo> ogra: my trains goes over colonge and stops there at 15:54
[11:37] <mvo> ogra: ah, got it now
[11:37] <ogra> mvo, yes, thats why we'll be on the same train if i make it :)
[11:38] <\sh> guadec?
[11:39] <ogra> \sh, something where KDE people never go ;)
[11:40] <Amaranth> GNOME Users And Developers European Conference?
[11:40] <Amaranth> completely expanding acronym's like that could take awhile
[11:41] <Amaranth> acronyms with acronyms with recursive acronyms
[11:41] <ogra> \sh, http://2005.guadec.org/
[11:42] <\sh> ogra: yeah...saw the announcement :)
[11:45] <Riddell> ogra: actually there's quite a few KDE people planning to go to guadec
[11:45] <ogra> Riddell, will you ?
[11:45] <Riddell> ogra: no
[11:46] <ogra> :-/
[11:46] <Riddell> ogra: but you should come to akademy
[11:46] <ogra> Riddell, get over to the *right* desktop ;)
[11:46] <Riddell> I think we should stop there before it gets out of control :)
[11:48] <\sh> Riddell: when is akademy?
[11:48] <Riddell> \sh: end of august, conference2005.kde.org
[11:48] <ogra> Riddell, you know i'm not serios 
[11:48] <mdke> shouldn't it be konference?
[11:48] <ogra> hehe
[11:48] <Riddell> ogra: yeah but I am :)
[11:48] <ogra> lol
[11:49] <Riddell> mdke: there are tales of Miguel complaining at LinuxTag about all these signs saying "Konference" thinking they were make by KDE fans
[11:49] <\sh> 7topic Riddell vs ogra: which is the right desktop, come join the mess, see how our gnome and kde dinosaurs fighting with bare hands and teeth ,->
[11:49] <mdke> Riddell, *laughs*
[11:59] <mvirkkil> Is anyone seeing this with breezy: gedit (and ajunta) think every shortkut (ctrl+c, ctrl+s etc) is ctrl+n
[11:59] <mvirkkil> It's freaking annoying not being able to use keyboard shortkuts.
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> Well, KDE is cool, but the K in front of everything gets a bit repetititve. :)
[12:04] <HiddenWolf> What's the name of that app again? K... something! ;)
[12:05] <mvirkkil> HiddenWolf: Yes, because gedit, gconf, gcalctool etc is so different ;-)
[12:06] <mdke> Riddell, http://www.uk.gnome.org/index.php?page=GnomeUKMarkers <-- we need one
[12:06] <mdke> HiddenWolf, agreed
[12:07] <mdke> HiddenWolf, in the docteam they started doing it with documents ;) kwickguide
[12:07] <Riddell> mdke: UbuntuWorldWide?
[12:07] <mdke> Riddell, i was thinking a uk one
[12:08] <mdke> Riddell, but the worldwide one is cool yeah
[12:08] <HiddenWolf> mvirkkil, G is just much sexier. ;)
[12:09] <mdke> not as hard a sound
[12:10] <\sh> hehehe
[12:10] <mvirkkil> The problem with this g* and k* stuff is that when there is a program like gwenview, you assume it's for gnome, and it's actually a pgoram for kde.
[12:11] <mvirkkil> gsword=ghotscript word?
[12:11] <mvirkkil> ghostscript word, even
[12:39] <mdke> Riddell, any idea how those maps are done?
[12:39] <rrichie> hi all
[12:39] <rrichie> can i downgrade from breezy to hoary ?
[12:42] <Riddell> mdke: with xplanet
[12:42] <Riddell> mdke: jdub has the scipts
[12:42] <mdke> you think they work for individual countries?
[12:42] <mdke> i'll ask him
[12:43] <mdke> rrichie, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DowngradingFromHoaryHowTo might help, #ubuntu might also be able to help
[12:44] <ogra> rrichie, technically yes, but it will cause 10x more pain that areinstall
[12:44] <ogra> then even
[12:44] <ogra> i would do a hoary reinstall
[12:45] <rrichie> arg
[12:45] <ogra> since nobody can guarantee that your system will work after a downgrade
[12:45] <ogra> and you will surely have a lot breezy leftovers
[12:45] <rrichie> ;(
[12:45] <ogra> did nobody warn you ?
[12:46] <rrichie> yes but i wanted to try, thinking i could downgrade easily
[12:47] <ogra> nope, the up direction is fine... the down direction is a PITA
[12:48] <ogra> pitti, !
[12:48] <ogra> pitti, not on your way to guadec yet ?
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: no, I'm not going to Guadec
[12:49] <ogra> :(
[12:49] <ogra> sad
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: but I go to debconf5, do you?
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, i doubt it... i'll likely be in london...
[01:48] <mvirkkil> Is anyone seeing this with breezy: gedit (and ajunta) thinks every shortcut (ctrl+c, ctrl+s etc) is ctrl+n
[01:48] <mvirkkil> All keyboard shortcuts are therefor unusable.
[01:49] <tfheen> mvirkkil: yes, known issue.
[01:50] <ogra> tfheen, stuttgart ?
[01:50] <tfheen> ogra: no, I'm still doing my master's thesis
[01:51] <ogra> ah, sad... i thought because of the nick
[01:51] <tfheen> nah, just doing some upgrades on vawad.
[01:52] <tfheen> moving a terabyte of data aroud.
[01:52] <ogra> uff
[01:53] <tfheen> nah, I'll end up with 3x400GB more disk space, so that's nice.
[01:54] <ogra> but a moving a terabyte is quite time consuming...
[04:05] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) grumpf
[04:05] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) verbiste has a lib right, but nothing use it
[04:05] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) we agreed that it doesn't need a rename or anything
[04:06] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: I'll sort all that with doko, thanks
[04:06] <maswan> elmo: but if you don't mind too much, could you check the firewall for settings on idle tcp connections or something like that, if there are any?
[04:07] <seb128> daniels: dude, libxres-dev should Depends on libxres1, no?
[04:07] <elmo> maswan: I ramp up tcp_rmem and tcp_wmem, but otherwise it's unmodified linux default 2.6 settings
[04:07] <elmo> (and that ramp up is on syncproxy, obviously)
[04:07] <seb128> it breaks libwnck/gnome-panel on amd64 with a -fPIC issue (it uses the .a since the .so is not here)
[04:08] <maswan> elmo: nod
[04:17] <maswan> elmo: if this doesn't work, I'll try upgrading rsycn and see if that works.
[04:35] <hunger> quit
[04:45] <eruin> hey lads... I just stumbled upon http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioCDBurning , and I was wondering if seb128 or ogra have been tracking rhyhtmbox 0.9
[04:45] <eruin> wouldn't it be good to focus some effort on getting that in too?
[04:45] <eruin> I'd say the default music application is definately the best suited to burn audio cds ;-)
[04:46] <Burgundavia> eruin, does .9 have burning?
[04:46] <eruin> yep
[04:46] <eruin> it uses nautilus-c-b too
[04:48] <eruin> I'm not sure how much activity is in the official repository, but I know it's in there, and the current active repository (olemke@core-dump.info--2005/rhythmbox--merge) includes substantial upgrades that might be in ubuntus interest to track ;)
[04:49] <jordi> who is olemk?
[04:50] <eruin> Oliver Lemke on the rhythmbox-devel list
[04:51] <eruin> pretty much any traffic on there revolves around that repo
[04:51] <jordi> nod
[04:51] <jordi> I'm glad to hear someone has picked it up
[04:51] <jordi> I assume walters is not active at all anymore?
[04:51] <eruin> I haven't heard or seen him in eons
[04:52] <jordi> how far is 0.10.0?
[04:52] <eruin> I think they're going for a gnome 2.12 release
[04:52] <jordi> oh, that is so good news!
[04:52] <eruin> yeah
[04:53] <Amaranth> maybe rhythmbox won't suck anymore! ;)
[04:53] <eruin> right now I think it's fabulous
[04:53] <Amaranth> but seriously though, i'm using it now
[04:54] <Amaranth> it's just annoying sometimes
[04:54] <Amaranth> like showing you the metadata but not letting you change it
[04:54] <eruin> --enable-tag-editing you say? .o
[04:54] <jordi> afaik, that's in 0.9
[04:55] <eruin> yeah
[04:55] <eruin> they're still calling it experimental though
[04:55] <jordi> seb128: dude package it :)
[04:55] <jordi> eruin: bah ;)
[04:55] <eruin> I havent had a single problem with it, but I guess they don't call it experimental for nothing ;P
[04:56] <Burgundavia> I have one issue with burnign within rb, what about those of us who don't use it?
[04:56] <jordi> Burgundavia: well, there's people who don't use nautilus
[04:56] <eruin> that's a nice use case for serpentine
[04:56] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:56] <Amaranth> it wouldn't even be that annoying if they would use labels for the metadata instead of textviews
[04:56] <eruin> but since rhythmbox is the default audio app, it makes perfect sense to use it for audio burning too
[04:56] <Burgundavia> I don't mind integrated burning, but Ubuntu must provide another way as well
[04:57] <Amaranth> i think there should be a library to handle audio cd creation that all these apps can use if they want
[04:57] <eruin> yep
[04:57] <eruin> I just think we need to push the rb guys to make it in time for breezy
[04:57] <Amaranth> that way we can have Do One Job And Do It Well and Do It All It's Easier To Use
[04:57] <eruin> they all use n-c-b
[04:57] <Amaranth> eruin: Well, if they make 2.12 they can probably make breezy.
[04:58] <eruin> yeah, the question is whether or not they will
[04:58] <eruin> :P
[04:58] <eruin> with all active development happening in a nonofficial repo...
[04:58] <Amaranth> gnome things are the last to freeze, aren't they?
[04:59] <Amaranth> eruin: All the development happening in an unofficial repository just shows off how useful arch is. :)
[05:00] <eruin> hehe
[05:00] <eruin> true, true
[05:09] <kent> Amaranth, I read something on planet.gnome.org (i think) where on person thanked ubuntu for something I think was arch. Is Ubuntu-people developing that?
[05:09] <Amaranth> kent: bazaar-ng
[05:09] <Amaranth> and the launchpad guys import cvs and svn trees into arch for some reason
[05:10] <Amaranth> that's what the p.g.o guy was thanking ubuntu for
[05:14] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, they do it so more people can work on the codd
[05:14] <Burgundavia> s/codd/code
[05:14] <Amaranth> ah
[05:14] <Amaranth> good idea
[05:16] <Amaranth> anyone else using breezy notice their menus don't update unless they kill gnome-panel now?
[05:17] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, yes
[05:17] <Amaranth> ok, as long as it's not just me
[05:18] <Amaranth> wanna test another nasty problem? :)
[05:18] <Burgundavia> sure
[05:19] <eruin> daniels unborked xorg? :)
[05:19] <Amaranth> create ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/.directory with the data [Desktop Entry] \nName=Foo\nType=Directory and restart gnome-panel
[05:19] <Amaranth> eruin: We unbork it ourselves on every upgrade with symlinks and quick hacks
[05:19] <eruin> ah... I'm holding off more extensive testing until after exams :P
[05:20] <Amaranth> good idea
[05:20] <eruin> helps to have xorg/openoffice when you have papers to write :)
[05:20] <Amaranth> latex ;)
[05:20] <eruin> haha
[05:21] <Amaranth> um, should libwnck-common be more or less empty?
[05:21] <Amaranth> it seems to only have README, copyright, AUTHORS, etc
[05:23] <seb128> jordi, eruin: rb0.9 is not suitable to be packaged
[05:23] <seb128> jordi, eruin: I've talked with teuf and he said that's not really worth packaging it atm
[05:23] <seb128> and I don't think it'll be near of stable soon
[05:23] <Amaranth> besides not being released and being buggy, is there any other reason ;)
[05:24] <jordi> then comes seb and takes all the fun away.
[05:24] <seb128> :)
[05:24] <eruin> I remember debian once had a galeon-cvs package
[05:24] <eruin> hint hint hint :P
[05:24] <Amaranth> whatever gets used it should be possible to select a group of songs in nautilus, right click, and choose burn audio cd
[05:24] <Amaranth> :)
[05:25] <seb128> eruin: ubuntu has several packages
[05:25] <seb128> eruin: but pissing upstream by packaging broken version so they are flooded by bugs is not a way to go
[05:26] <seb128> s/packages/cvs packages/
[05:26] <seb128> anyway not an option for now
[05:26] <eruin> yeah... I suppose its a good idea to keep that repo in the list
[05:26] <Amaranth> perhaps something in universe called rhythmbox-unstable? :)
[05:26] <Amaranth> eruin: what repo?
[05:27] <eruin> though the current system of bugreports on a devel list is probably worse than having bzilla spammed ;-)
[05:27] <eruin> Archive: olemke core-dump info--2005
[05:27] <eruin> Branch:  rhythmbox--merge--0.9
[05:27] <eruin> http://arch.core-dump.info/archive
[05:27] <Amaranth> hey, at least someone will respond to the email one way or the other
[05:27] <Amaranth> bleh, you're talking about arch
[05:28] <Amaranth> i thought you mean someone made a rb0.9 package :)
[05:28] <Amaranth> meant
[05:28] <eruin> I did that once
[05:28] <eruin> that was an rpm though... I have to read up on debs ;>
[05:34] <daniels> seb128: uhmm, yeah
[05:35] <daniels> seb128: ${shlibs:Depends} should take care of that
[05:35] <daniels> eruin: locally, yes, but not uploaded
[06:23] <Nafallo> #8760 is open for libxine1c2. the patch for libmad0 breakage seems to have been lost in the merge from debian.
[06:26] <Nafallo> shall I reopen the bug or is here anyone who sees this and upload the fix? :-)
[06:29] <seb128> Nafallo: the bug has been reopened I think
[06:30] <Nafallo> seb128: nope, I was asking if I should do it :-).
[06:30] <seb128> Nafallo: read the bug
[06:31] <Nafallo> seb128: turns up resolved/fixed for me
[06:31] <seb128> read the comments!!
[06:31] <seb128> "anybody still getting the issue with the fixed package? According to #10977
[06:31] <seb128> that's still an issue"
[06:31] <seb128> "sorry, it isn't the same bug (no need to reopen it). it is linked to bugs :
[06:31] <seb128> #8343 & #8759"
[06:31] <seb128> 
[06:31] <seb128> if you have differents informations say so
[06:36] <Nafallo> seb128: well. I've just upgraded to libxine1c2 and jamesh patch (1.0-1ubuntu6) seems to have been lost in the merge from debian. (1.0.1-1ubuntu1)
[06:37] <Nafallo> seb128: I hope that's was more clear :-).
[06:37] <seb128> yep
[06:37] <seb128> I've just uploaded a new version
[06:37] <seb128> better to be clear instead of asking if you need to open a bug or not :p
[06:37] <seb128> thanks anyway
[06:38] <Nafallo> seb128: hehe, I'll remember that. and thank YOU! :-)
[06:39] <seb128> np
[06:45] <siretart> is there somethings wrong with the wiki? I get a 'password wrong' when logging in and I'm trying to find out if the error is on my side
[06:49] <mako> Simira: hey there
[06:50] <tsume> brezzy well broken?
[06:50] <tsume> meaning I shouldn't upgrade my current breezy?
[06:50] <tsume> last time I upgraded was at the KDE breakage
[06:51] <bob2> if you want to use breezy, expect it to be broken
[06:52] <bob2> if it's not, it's a nice surprise
[06:52] <tsume> its not broken at all, except the KDE mount daemon not working right, but at least it mounts it correctly automatically
[06:52] <bob2> as above
[06:52] <tsume> I just can't use konqueror to read/write the devices
[06:52] <tsume> no other problems though.
[06:54] <tsume> well, I think I'll upgrade to the latest
[06:54] <tsume> I always work around to fix problems temporarily :)
[06:54] <tsume> umm, maybe I'll upgrade later. I don't have time to download 300+MB
[06:55] <tsume> *sigh*
[06:55] <tsume> its a fedora spy! :)
[06:56] <tsume> They've come to steal away the ubuntu developers. /me shoves mdz in the safe and throws away the key.
[06:57] <bob2> drbyte: using ubuntu yet?
[06:57] <Lathiat> tsume: hehe 
[06:57] <Lathiat> drbyte: hey :)
[06:57] <drbyte> bob2: nope :P
[06:57] <drbyte> hi Lathiat 
[06:57] <bob2> hah
[06:57] <bob2> drbyte: only a matter of time!
[06:58] <tsume> drbyte: I'm just playing btw. We all welcome every person to this channel.
[06:58] <drbyte> bob2: its on one of the boxes... require it for 'work' 
[06:58] <drbyte> tsume: i'm usually here btw ;-)
[06:58] <drbyte> either as cc or me
[06:58] <bob2> hehe
[06:58] <tsume> drbyte: and you haven't changed your mask to .ubuntu yet? ;)
[06:59] <drbyte> tsume: no, no.
[06:59] <bob2> tsume: probably should loook into what he does with his free time
[06:59] <tsume> bob2: hes probably a fedora developer or repackager :)
[06:59] <bob2> hahahahahaha
[06:59] <drbyte> tsume: former, yes. whats a repackager?
[07:00] <tsume> drbyte: build software and package in rpm
[07:00] <drbyte> tsume: oh, like a DD. well, we do that too...
[07:00] <tsume> drbyte: well I meant repackager as in the people who sit there all day looking for new software releases ;)
[07:00] <drbyte> oh well, time to pretend to get some rest... 3am. bleh
[07:01] <drbyte> tsume: oh, definitely not me. that'd be scary.
[07:01] <bob2> nightynight
[07:01] <Lathiat> 3am? week :)
[07:01] <tsume> gtg, byes
[07:12] <Simira> mako: do you have any statistics for how many cd's that are distributed or ordered of Hoary and Warty to each country?
[07:35] <doko> seb128: verbiste ping
[08:06] <ivoks> hi
[08:26] <herve> hi
[09:02] <ivoks> here is like on a train station.. lots of people, nobody speeks, and lots of people going in and out :)
[09:02] <robertj> :)
[09:48] <Amaranth> why does kde use kde-applications.menu instead of applications.menu?
[09:48] <Amaranth> this breaks many things
[09:55] <hunger> daniels: Could you please change /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc to point to the proper binary? Thanks.
[10:10] <hunger> I did apt-get source. How do I get the downloaded stuff into the setup just before building?
[10:11] <herve> what do you call setup?
[10:11] <hunger> herve: I want to see the source used to build the binaries.
[10:12] <hunger> herve: With all the ubuntu patches applied, etc.
[10:12] <hunger> herve: I do not want to build it.
[10:12] <herve> apt-get source should have setup it
[10:12] <herve> and you usually find patches in debian/patches
[10:12] <herve> or directly applied to the sources in worst cases
[10:13] <herve> (set it up, setup is not a verb)
[10:13] <hunger> herve: I do not see the sources... just a tar and patches.
[10:14] <ivoks> hunger: cd <packagename>
[10:14] <herve> some developers do that yes
[10:14] <herve> so you know the upstream source really are not modified by the package maintainer
[10:14] <hunger> herve: Is there a standard way to "prepare for build" or will I have to mess with debian/rules?
[10:15] <herve> hunger: build tools handle this all
[10:15] <herve> this is a part of the whole process
[10:15] <herve> you'll find patching calls in debian/rules, by the way
[10:16] <hunger> herve: I do not want to build, just see what the source the build is going to use.
[10:16] <herve> hmm
[10:17] <hunger> herve: Is there a standard way to extract and patch the sources without building them?
[10:17] <herve> you should run something like "fakeroot ./debian/rules configure"
[10:17] <herve> i.e., call by hand the step the build tools would have called at some point
[10:19] <herve> hunger: you should check debian/rules to be sure of the target where sources are untared and patched
[10:19] <hunger> herve: OK, so there is no "standard" way to do so. thanks.
[10:19] <ivoks> heh
[10:20] <herve> hunger, in a way yes, targets are standard
[10:20] <hunger> herve: configure target seems to be the right one:-)
[10:20] <ivoks> there are standards
[10:20] <herve> but maintainer are quite free to organize their rules file
[10:21] <ivoks> but, as in real life, you have DIN, ISO, ANSI, etc :)
[10:21] <hunger> ivoks herve: I was thinking of some dpkg-something as standard, not calling debian/rules directly:-)
[10:21] <ivoks> hunger: for what? building package?
[10:22] <hunger> ivoks: Getting a package into the state just before actually building it.
[10:22] <herve> ivoks: preparing the sources with patches, etc.
[10:22] <ivoks> hunger: apt-get source package
[10:22] <ivoks> ah...
[10:22] <herve> but stop before the build process occurs
[10:22] <ivoks> that depends of rules :)
[10:22] <herve> ivoks: my point :-)
[10:22] <herve> but the configure target is 99% times what it means
[10:23] <ivoks> yeah
[10:23] <ivoks> patching isn't that often...
[10:24] <hunger> ivoks: Im a idiot wrt. packaging... (and most other things as well for that matter).
[10:25] <ivoks> :) ?
[10:25] <ivoks> writting :)
[10:25] <ivoks> ah, hunger i'm not too much better either :)
[10:26] <herve> ivoks, you didn't know how to make a package like, what, one month ago?
[10:26] <herve> :-p
[10:27] <ivoks> herve: three weeks ago :)
[10:27] <ivoks> since then... :))
[10:28] <hunger> Not having X makes me feel nostalgic:-)
[10:28] <ivoks> ah.. time to leave you guys
[10:29] <hunger> ivoks: Bye!
[10:29] <ivoks> bye all
[10:29] <herve> bye
[10:44] <hunger> The new keysyms in X have values > 0xffff and are stored as unsigned shorts:-(
[10:46] <hunger> No wonder some keys are broken... but those are farsi and other really strange characters, not the F-keys, etc. that no longer work for me.
[11:11] <hunger> daniels: The XKeysymDB is in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 while the sources say it is in /usr/lib/X11.
[11:13] <Kamion> elmo: mv --reply=no
[11:14] <Kamion> elmo: we decided that libqt-perl, libsmokeqt1, libsmokeqt-dev were OK for main, didn't we? it sounded like other parts of kdebindings were more troublesome than SMOKE
[11:15] <Kamion> I'm just preparing a debconf upload so I'd like to have those promoted in order for this one to actually build
[11:17] <Simira> how come most of the mails I've sent lately don't seem to be in my "Sent items"-folder?
[11:19] <Simira> help?
[11:38] <mkde> the email gnomes
[11:38] <mkde> stealing email to make profit
[12:00] <mxpxpod> when using make-kpkg on a vanilla kernel, do I have to do anything to make it with an initrd image?