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| mdke | sorry | 12:23 |
|---|---|---|
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| mpt | I'd agree with this bit though | 01:52 |
| mpt | ""One problem with the services model is that it is based on the idea that you are giving customers crap--because if you give them software that works, what is the point of service?" | 01:52 |
| mpt | That's why help keeps sucking, for example. | 01:52 |
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| froud | African Greetings | 08:34 |
| robitaille | and in return, some Canadian greetings | 08:41 |
| froud | hello robitaille , you're new here. Please to meet you :-) | 08:41 |
| robitaille | yeah; I have been hanging around here in the background from time to time. | 08:42 |
| froud | we have quite a few Canadians here | 08:42 |
| froud | so, are you new to Linux or an old hand? | 08:43 |
| robitaille | actually live in the same town than Corey Burger. Still haven't met him yet in real life. | 08:43 |
| froud | programmer or net admin or writer? | 08:43 |
| froud | that's cause corey never leaves his computer | 08:43 |
| froud | :-) | 08:43 |
| robitaille | Been using Linux since late 1990s. Formally working as a system admin...now doing it in the evening while I code in Fortran during the day. | 08:44 |
| froud | Oh cool, you ever considered helping out on the docs | 08:44 |
| robitaille | I did. I did review the hardware database application manual for you just before Hoary was released. And played with the xhtml strict version of ubuntuguide.org a couple of weeks ago when someone wanted to convert it to docbook | 08:45 |
| froud | Oh yes, great, now I remember. Thanks for that :-) | 08:46 |
| froud | well I have ported ubuntuguide.org into docbook so it is now in svn | 08:46 |
| froud | still needs some work | 08:47 |
| froud | the port is mostly a manual thing | 08:47 |
| robitaille | I have been doing all sort of little things around Ubuntu for the last few months; I'll probably try to help when some of the wiki gets converted using the template you probided the other day | 08:47 |
| robitaille | s/probided/provided/ | 08:48 |
| froud | Great, that would be a good help | 08:48 |
| froud | Your a sysadmin, so how about writing for the Admin Guide? | 08:48 |
| froud | The outline is done | 08:49 |
| froud | of cours eyou are free to change the outline | 08:49 |
| robitaille | I could take a look at it at one point; I'm not that great of a writer in the first place, and english isn't my first language. But besides that, I'm sure I could help a bit. | 08:50 |
| froud | we dont expect shakespear | 08:50 |
| froud | b'side others will edit and reveiw | 08:51 |
| froud | if you see a section you would like to do or feel there is something on the wiki you can port, insert to one of the existing docs are create a new doc, just go for it | 08:51 |
| froud | if the docbook is problematic, we will help you out with that | 08:52 |
| robitaille | is the outline in the svn? | 08:52 |
| froud | yes | 08:52 |
| froud | you can find it under https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/gnome/adminguide/C | 08:52 |
| robitaille | thanks. got it | 08:54 |
| froud | so you know how to svn then, that's good | 08:54 |
| robitaille | yes; thanks for the great wiki pages for the doc group. I have been reading a little bit about docbook; I have to write some small doc at work, and I'l probably try to to it in that format as a learning experience. | 08:55 |
| robitaille | I have done html/xhtml in the past, so it's not that foreign in concept | 08:56 |
| froud | OK, well if you need help just give me a shout | 08:56 |
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| mdke | morning all | 11:01 |
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| mdke | what do you guys think about deleting pages without much material on the wiki? I guess we're going to be deleting quite a few pages during the transition... i was looking at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/QTThemeWithoutKDE | 11:16 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://irclog.workaround.org | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first. | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by sivang at Sat Jan 1 20:48:30 2005 | ||
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| jiyuu0 | finally i removed marillat | 05:37 |
| Kinnison | Heh | 05:37 |
| jiyuu0 | and added backports in the main sources.list | 05:37 |
| Burgundavia | salut Kinnison | 05:37 |
| jiyuu0 | the only thing that will use the marillat is acroread and transcode | 05:38 |
| jiyuu0 | if only backports has it... then can 100% marillat free :) | 05:38 |
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| mdke | *grins* | 09:29 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, now all you have to do is remove backports :p | 09:29 |
| jiyuu0 | remove backports? | 09:29 |
| jiyuu0 | i just added it | 09:29 |
| jiyuu0 | quite some changes made | 09:30 |
| jiyuu0 | but it's worth it | 09:30 |
| jiyuu0 | java, azureus, nvu... more updates | 09:30 |
| mdke | updates are detested by the ubuntu developers | 09:32 |
| mdke | they don't pay any attention to packaging policy | 09:33 |
| mdke | but most users want them i suppose | 09:33 |
| jiyuu0 | ic | 09:34 |
| jiyuu0 | but at least it's better than marillat | 09:34 |
| jiyuu0 | in the sense... backports is meant for ubuntu | 09:34 |
| mdke | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuBackports | 09:34 |
| mdke | my personal reason for disliking the backport project is that it encourages the "I must have the latest version of everything" attitude, without explaining that this compromising stability | 09:35 |
| mdke | but thats IMO | 09:35 |
| jiyuu0 | well... take e.g. firefox 1.0.4 | 09:36 |
| jiyuu0 | it's considered to be stable and official | 09:36 |
| jiyuu0 | and why is ubuntu devel not updating | 09:36 |
| jiyuu0 | i mean it fixes security and stuff | 09:36 |
| venda | jiyuu0: I am just about to make a big commit on this thing will you pleas eprovide patch to align your changes | 09:36 |
| jiyuu0 | venda, what patch? | 09:37 |
| jiyuu0 | i'm not the developer of backports | 09:37 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, he means the guide | 09:37 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, do you seriously think that the ubuntu developers don't update security problems? | 09:38 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, the firefox fixes are included in the Ubuntu security updates | 09:38 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, ALL security issues are fixed | 09:38 |
| jiyuu0 | ok :) | 09:38 |
| jiyuu0 | is there going to be a conflict with backports? | 09:39 |
| mdke | the version name does not change because they are patched | 09:39 |
| venda | jiyuu0: yes, the ubuntu guide. can you please add any changes you have made to the docbook xml version in svn. Thanks | 09:39 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, yes there is a conflict. backports are safe if properly pinned I believe | 09:39 |
| jiyuu0 | ok. just spent one whole day on ubuntuguide | 09:40 |
| venda | so did I | 09:40 |
| jiyuu0 | now waiting for the add-on-cd to be uploaded | 09:40 |
| venda | see commit list | 09:40 |
| === jiyuu0 got mail bomb again... | ||
| venda | oh that's handy | 09:42 |
| venda | jiyuu0: will you do the update? | 09:43 |
| venda | jiyuu0: have you sent your public pgp key to elmo yet? | 09:43 |
| jiyuu0 | not yet... | 09:43 |
| jiyuu0 | i'll look into it... but i need instructions | 09:44 |
| jiyuu0 | subversion and stuff | 09:44 |
| jiyuu0 | ok.. gotta crash... nearly 4am | 09:44 |
| jiyuu0 | c'ya tomorrow | 09:44 |
| venda | you have a working copy still | 09:45 |
| venda | just svn update | 09:45 |
| venda | make updates to FAQGuide | 09:45 |
| venda | make diff and send us the diff | 09:45 |
| jiyuu0 | ok... i'll workn on the svn from 3.0 onwards | 09:46 |
| venda | Huh? | 09:46 |
| jiyuu0 | UbuntuGuide 3.0 just release today | 09:46 |
| venda | Ok what about the changes you have made now, can you do the changes in svn? | 09:47 |
| jiyuu0 | major change -> removed marillat and use backports (as lot requested) | 09:47 |
| venda | please send me diff between your html files | 09:47 |
| venda | mdke: to save the translators major work | 09:48 |
| venda | mdke: I wonder if we can create a pot of en version | 09:48 |
| venda | and copy paste from nn versions into po files | 09:48 |
| mdke | of what? | 09:48 |
| venda | then submit these to rosetta | 09:48 |
| venda | ubuntuguide.org (FAQGuide) | 09:49 |
| mdke | i spent like a week trying to get a pot out of it, no go | 09:49 |
| venda | no no | 09:49 |
| venda | I mean, from the xml version | 09:49 |
| venda | once we have it finsihed we can create POT | 09:49 |
| mdke | that is the plan for breezy yeah | 09:49 |
| venda | then create po files | 09:49 |
| jiyuu0 | first time using diff | 09:50 |
| venda | can copy paste the strings from nn HTML files into respective po files | 09:50 |
| jiyuu0 | diff file1 file2? | 09:50 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, diff file1 file2 > file.diff i think | 09:50 |
| venda | diff foo1 foo2 > foo3 | 09:50 |
| venda | mail foo3 to list | 09:50 |
| venda | if you can do this I will upgrade xml in svn to 3.0 | 09:51 |
| jiyuu0 | the output not easy to read | 09:51 |
| jiyuu0 | what version is the svn? | 09:51 |
| venda | svn 1.0 | 09:51 |
| venda | I can read diff well | 09:51 |
| venda | let me take care of it | 09:51 |
| venda | or send me new HTML 3.0 and I will diff it for you | 09:52 |
| venda | sean@inwords.co.za | 09:52 |
| jiyuu0 | the last 2.09 is here | 09:52 |
| jiyuu0 | http://frankandjacq.com/ubuntuguide/5.04/index.html | 09:52 |
| jiyuu0 | the new 3.00 is | 09:52 |
| jiyuu0 | http://ubuntuguide.org/index.html | 09:52 |
| venda | OK | 09:52 |
| venda | got it | 09:52 |
| jiyuu0 | btw, just curious what will the svn of the guide turn to? | 09:53 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, it can turn into anything | 09:53 |
| mdke | yelp, pdf, html | 09:53 |
| jiyuu0 | i don't really like yelp | 09:53 |
| venda | what format do you want? | 09:53 |
| mdke | if it is made official it can go on the Ubuntu website | 09:53 |
| venda | I can make PDF | 09:54 |
| venda | or X/HTML if it is better for you | 09:54 |
| jiyuu0 | can u send me a sample of PDF | 09:54 |
| jiyuu0 | jiyuu0@gmail.com | 09:54 |
| jiyuu0 | just curious how it will look like | 09:54 |
| venda | yes, once we have version in svn complete | 09:55 |
| mdke | the great thing is that it can be published in many ways | 09:55 |
| venda | jiyuu0: we would also like to profile this doc for kubuntu | 09:55 |
| jiyuu0 | but i'm still going to maintain ubuntuguide as it is right? | 09:55 |
| mdke | and therefore can go in the Ubuntu local system, and on the website, and on the livecd etc | 09:55 |
| jiyuu0 | as it suites my preference | 09:55 |
| venda | we would like to take Judos | 09:56 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, the point of putting it in svn is that it would be a community project | 09:56 |
| venda | if you want to maintain ubuntuguide.org you can | 09:56 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| venda | but we cannot say what will happen to the version in svn | 09:57 |
| venda | we expect people in the community to develop it | 09:57 |
| === jiyuu0 nods | ||
| mdke | if it will go on the ubuntu website and on the ubuntu local system, it will have to be modified fairly heavily | 09:57 |
| venda | while I was marking it up as docbook I got some ideas that I think will improve it | 09:58 |
| venda | I am sure others will do the same | 09:58 |
| jiyuu0 | what ideas? | 09:58 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, but that doesn't stop you from developing the guide on your website as you wish | 09:58 |
| venda | :-) JOin us and let's share them dude | 09:58 |
| jiyuu0 | so SVN will be more detailed | 09:58 |
| mdke | not necessarily | 09:59 |
| jiyuu0 | the ubuntuguide.org will still maintain in it's point form (for easier reference) | 09:59 |
| venda | its a faq, so detail is not wanted | 09:59 |
| mdke | jiyuu0, the point form is good | 09:59 |
| venda | the version in svn is a question and answer format | 09:59 |
| venda | Q A | 09:59 |
| venda | qanda | 09:59 |
| mdke | does it validate? | 09:59 |
| venda | not yet | 10:00 |
| venda | working on it | 10:00 |
| venda | jiyuu0: here is a small example | 10:00 |
| venda | <qandaentry> | 10:00 |
| venda | <question> | 10:01 |
| mdke | yes i've seen how hard you are working on it | 10:01 |
| venda | <para>Configuring network interfaces... (taking too long to load)</para> | 10:01 |
| venda | </question> | 10:01 |
| venda | <answer> | 10:01 |
| venda | <orderedlist> | 10:01 |
| venda | <listitem> | 10:01 |
| venda | <para>Read <xref linkend="temporaryskipboot-upservices"/> | 10:01 |
| venda | </para> | 10:01 |
| venda | </listitem> | 10:01 |
| venda | </orderedlist> | 10:01 |
| venda | </answer> | 10:01 |
| venda | </qandaentry> | 10:01 |
| venda | yeah, my next step is to resolve the xref | 10:02 |
| venda | mdke: we want to bring in KUDOS to this guide | 10:02 |
| mdke | cool | 10:02 |
| venda | that way we will have a book for ubuntu and a book for kubuntu | 10:02 |
| mdke | that would be excellent | 10:03 |
| venda | but KUDOS is large | 10:03 |
| venda | larger than ubuntuguide.org :-( | 10:03 |
| venda | I hope he has docbook src already | 10:03 |
| mdke | unlikely | 10:03 |
| venda | yeah | 10:03 |
| mdke | is it significantly different to jerome's document? | 10:03 |
| venda | some stuff is duplicated | 10:04 |
| venda | its a faq | 10:04 |
| venda | jerome is doing quickguide | 10:04 |
| jiyuu0 | kudus is like a book | 10:04 |
| jiyuu0 | lot's of explanations and stuff | 10:04 |
| mdke | i c | 10:05 |
| jiyuu0 | it's good in a way i's bad | 10:05 |
| mdke | maybe those can be cut out if it is converted to a faqguide | 10:05 |
| venda | yes, it has pros and cons | 10:05 |
| mdke | and inserted into a userguide | 10:05 |
| venda | we need to normalize it | 10:05 |
| mdke | ok i'm gonna hook up to the userguide and see if I can do somemore work on it | 10:05 |
| mdke | see ya later | 10:05 |
| jiyuu0 | ok... i've really gotta crash | 10:06 |
| venda | jiyuu0: night | 10:06 |
| mdke | night jiyuu0 | 10:06 |
| mdke | thanks | 10:06 |
| jiyuu0 | night :) | 10:06 |
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| mkde | argh | 10:20 |
| mkde | venda!! | 10:20 |
| mkde | the userguide doesn't open anymore. | 10:20 |
| mkde | have you removed entities? | 10:20 |
| mkde | or added some invalidly | 10:20 |
| mkde | pasting you the errors | 10:21 |
| mkde | froud_, venda ? | 10:23 |
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| _venda | sorry crash mdke paste again | 10:31 |
| mkde | just do ./validate.sh on the userguide | 10:31 |
| === _venda is now known as venda | ||
| mkde | :/ | 10:31 |
| mkde | entities are missing | 10:31 |
| venda | OK I will resolve them | 10:32 |
| mkde | ty | 10:32 |
| mkde | how come it happened? | 10:32 |
| venda | I may have merged and missed something :-) | 10:32 |
| mkde | ok np | 10:33 |
| mkde | we need a "no removing entities without grepping around for them first" rule tho :p | 10:33 |
| venda | no its not a merge problem I see the problem now | 10:34 |
| venda | gimme a sec | 10:35 |
| mkde | awesome | 10:35 |
| mkde | what was it | 10:35 |
| venda | I forgot a whitespace and also duplicated an entity | 10:36 |
| mkde | is that all? | 10:37 |
| mkde | gosh | 10:37 |
| mkde | so all the remaining entities weren't found? | 10:37 |
| venda | svn up | 10:38 |
| venda | try it now | 10:38 |
| mkde | ok thanks | 10:38 |
| mkde | bingo | 10:38 |
| mkde | works | 10:38 |
| venda | yes, an invalid entity is a blocker | 10:38 |
| venda | he he | 10:38 |
| mkde | its always the damn typos | 10:38 |
| venda | yeah | 10:38 |
| mkde | i hate them | 10:38 |
| venda | that's programming for you ;-) | 10:39 |
| mkde | today it was a - instead of a = that mucked me up | 10:39 |
| mkde | still here? | 10:43 |
| venda | yep | 10:43 |
| mkde | can i check that xref with ya | 10:43 |
| mkde | its a chapter | 10:43 |
| venda | which xref | 10:44 |
| venda | in faq | 10:44 |
| mkde | you remember i asked you how to do it | 10:44 |
| mkde | i've sort of forgotten | 10:44 |
| venda | :-( yes | 10:44 |
| mkde | <xref something="id"></xref> | 10:44 |
| venda | oh | 10:44 |
| venda | xref linkend="target-id" | 10:44 |
| mkde | awesome | 10:45 |
| venda | you can also bring in text | 10:45 |
| venda | like this | 10:45 |
| mkde | so how is this: | 10:45 |
| venda | xref linkend="target-id" endterm="title-target-id" | 10:45 |
| mkde | <para>First and foremost you must have a working connection to the internet. To find out how to set this up, see <xref linkend="systemconfiguration-internet">this section</xref> | 10:45 |
| mkde | hmm | 10:45 |
| venda | no | 10:46 |
| mkde | :/ | 10:46 |
| venda | <xref linkend="systemconfiguration-internet"/> | 10:46 |
| mkde | ok | 10:46 |
| mkde | so i just need to insert the /? | 10:47 |
| venda | this will create the text for you | 10:47 |
| venda | the id is in the same file right? | 10:47 |
| mkde | yes | 10:47 |
| venda | ok xref is an open tag | 10:47 |
| venda | when the proc does its work the xsl will do the rest | 10:47 |
| venda | it will say, see the Chapter "Title of Chapter" | 10:48 |
| mkde | so i can't define the text that is linked | 10:48 |
| mkde | ok | 10:48 |
| venda | or it will say, see the section "Title of Chapter" | 10:48 |
| mkde | ok so: | 10:49 |
| mkde | To find out how to set this up, see the section <xref linkend="systemconfiguration-internet"/> | 10:49 |
| venda | it will do the words for you | 10:49 |
| venda | To find out how to set this up, see <xref linkend="systemconfiguration-internet"/> | 10:50 |
| venda | this will become | 10:50 |
| venda | To find out how to set this up, see the section <xref linkend="systemconfiguration-internet"/> | 10:50 |
| mkde | ok | 10:50 |
| mkde | clever | 10:50 |
| mkde | whats the policy on linking to other documents? | 10:50 |
| venda | To find out how to set this up, see the section $target-text | 10:50 |
| venda | we don't yet support olink | 10:51 |
| venda | I hope to add this support before 5.10 | 10:51 |
| mkde | i guess the problem is that they would be published in different places, not just yelp, like on the website, so linking between documents is not easy | 10:52 |
| venda | but not impossible ;-) | 10:52 |
| mkde | that would be supercool | 10:53 |
| mkde | gnome help seems to be back at 2.6 on my system | 11:00 |
| mkde | GNOME 2.6 Desktop System Administration Guide | 11:00 |
| venda | dunno I am on Kubuntu right now | 11:00 |
| mkde | that sucks balls | 11:01 |
| mkde | maybe gnome 2.10 hasn't got a help yet | 11:01 |
| Burgundavia | Sun also just stopped supporting some gnome docs | 11:02 |
| Burgundavia | so the gnome doc team is in a real mess | 11:02 |
| venda | yeah I saw that | 11:03 |
| mkde | ic | 11:03 |
| mkde | how would I link to the synaptic help? | 11:03 |
| venda | just dont | 11:03 |
| venda | interlinking does not work without olinks | 11:04 |
| mkde | ? | 11:04 |
| mkde | but the whole userguide has links to other help docs | 11:04 |
| mkde | like this: | 11:04 |
| mkde | <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:sound-juicer" | 11:04 |
| mkde | >here</ulink> | 11:04 |
| venda | yeah | 11:04 |
| mkde | does that not work? | 11:04 |
| venda | dont use ghelp | 11:05 |
| mkde | how come? | 11:05 |
| venda | it should not be used | 11:05 |
| mkde | ,,, | 11:05 |
| venda | ties us in to yelp | 11:05 |
| mkde | ah | 11:05 |
| venda | remain neutral | 11:05 |
| mkde | so what should I do just copy all those documents? | 11:05 |
| venda | no | 11:06 |
| mkde | remove all the: | 11:06 |
| venda | if the doc is online use it | 11:06 |
| mkde | <para> A more thorough explanation of the ins and outs of <application>Sound | 11:06 |
| mkde | Juicer</application> can be found <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:sound-juicer" | 11:06 |
| mkde | >here</ulink>. </para> | 11:06 |
| mkde | there will be lots to remove | 11:06 |
| venda | yes, it was a problem | 11:06 |
| mkde | especially because the userguide attempts to do an overview | 11:06 |
| mkde | it is useful to refer a user to a more detailed doc | 11:06 |
| venda | the user guide need to explain in itself | 11:06 |
| venda | arh perhaps I can call you | 11:07 |
| venda | msg your number to me | 11:07 |
| mkde | i'll call i have a cheap thing | 11:07 |
| mkde | whats the land line again | 11:07 |
| venda | +27 11 678 4496 | 11:08 |
| mkde | gimme a mo | 11:09 |
| mkde | cheap thing is slow tonight, everyone is calling ;) | 11:09 |
| mkde | ok | 11:10 |
| mkde | ring ring | 11:10 |
| venda | no ring | 11:10 |
| mkde | stupid thing | 11:11 |
| mkde | give it time | 11:11 |
| venda | the number is right | 11:11 |
| === mkde nods | ||
| mkde | ok | 11:11 |
| mkde | trying again | 11:12 |
| mkde | ring ring? | 11:13 |
| venda | no ring ring | 11:13 |
| mkde | :/ | 11:13 |
| venda | cheap thing no work | 11:13 |
| venda | me call you | 11:13 |
| venda | what number | 11:13 |
| mkde | damn | 11:13 |
| mkde | +44 207 476 3259 | 11:14 |
| mkde | perhaps the lines are clogged this evening | 11:14 |
| venda | ring ring | 11:14 |
| mkde | :) | 11:35 |
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