[12:01] <Kamion> use the --initrd option
[12:01] <Kamion> (when running the kernel-image target)
[12:01] <mxpxpod> Kamion: what's the warning about?
[12:22] <Amaranth> heh, not here
[12:22] <seb128> doko: pong
[12:22] <Amaranth> i think a #twisted developer has a similar nick
[12:22] <mkde> Amaranth, then he'll have to die
[12:23] <hajiki> could anyone help me verify if this is a bug or just an issue on my system?
[12:24] <mkde> hajiki, sure, go to #ubuntu
[12:24] <hajiki> ok
[12:24] <seb128> what a description
[12:24] <seb128> "this is a bug"
[12:25] <mkde> he hasn't popped up in #ubuntu yet
[12:25] <mkde> aha
[12:36] <Gandalfar> Anyone knows how to pivot image with nvidia driver?
[12:37] <doko> seb128: hi
[12:37] <seb128> hey
[12:37] <seb128> why are all these stuff still frozen?
[12:39] <mkde> a support question which we can't figure out in #ubuntu to do with a security mirror. A guy is getting a GPG error from the security mirror. any ideas?
[12:39] <doko> it's universe
[12:39] <seb128> and?
[12:40] <seb128> libapt-pkg-perl would unbreak apt-file by example
[12:40] <doko> you don't know, if it depends on a library, which is not yet converted. if you know it, elmo and lamont can remove it from the list of frozen apps
[12:41] <seb128> k
[12:41] <seb128> ie: libapt-pkg-perl is all right, no?
[12:41] <doko> yes, AFAIK elmo did open the gates for syncs again, so we have to ask lamont for an updated list on the buildds.
[12:42] <seb128> k
[12:42] <doko> don't do that too often, or lamont will ... maybe annoyed. maybe put a list of apps together, which can safely be built?
[12:42] <seb128> k, I'll do this
[12:42] <seb128> thanks
[12:43] <doko> send a diff for chinstrap:~doko/cxxapps.txt
[12:44] <doko> btw, ubuntu-desktop on breezy is at least installable again, all C++ apps are built using 4.0
[12:44] <doko> Kamion: ^^^
[12:44] <seb128> nice
[12:44] <mkde> awesome
[12:44] <Kamion> doko: woo, thanks
[12:45] <doko> maybe wait for one more xorg upload and then try a CD build ...
[12:45] <Kamion> I want debconf to build first; it has some important bug fixes
[12:45] <doko> it needs universe -> main love
[12:45] <Kamion> and debconf progress bar support is in the "early breakage" category :)
[12:45] <Kamion> I know, see an hour and a half back
[12:46] <doko> btw, are you able to do the main -> universe dance as well?
[12:47] <Kamion> doko: technically, yes, but as with universe->main I'd rather do it only when I have to
[12:48] <doko> ok, I don't like python-qt3 and openoffice.org2 in an unbuildable state
[12:49] <Kamion> python-qt3 has too big a knock-on effect
[12:49] <Kamion> and as I said I'd rather we kept openoffice.org2 in main so that it keeps bugging us
[12:49] <doko> not only openoffice.org2 will keep bugging you, but me as well ;-)
[12:50] <Kamion> yes, and so it should :-)
[12:51] <Kamion> it's a breezy release goal
[01:50] <mdz> Kamion, doko: what about x-window-system-core?  last I checked it was still behind
[01:51] <mdz> ah, it's been fixed since
[01:51] <mdz> or else whatever it was conflicting with has been
[01:52] <mdz> at any rate, good work
[01:55] <trulux> tseng: go ahead and ask mdz or anyone about that "12 pages shit" and the like
[01:56] <tseng> trulux: eh dont bring that in here your latest adventure has nothing to do with ubuntu.
[01:56] <tseng> we have a code of conduct here that says I should be civil to you and all that.
[01:57] <trulux> tseng: hah, you're the first in violating it's rules
[01:57] <daniels> hunger: fixed that locally
[01:57] <trulux> tseng: go ahead, really. don't say it's not ubuntu related
[01:58] <trulux> tseng: tell me publicly, what's your problem?
[01:58] <trulux> you don't like how I work, maybe it's that what makes you feeling and acting that way
[01:58] <Burgundavia> tseng, trulux please try and stay civil
[01:59] <trulux> Burgundavia: it has nothing to do with being polite but saying the truth
[01:59] <Burgundavia> trulux, you can tell the truth, but you can say it in a way that doesn't hurt other people
[01:59] <trulux> Burgundavia: sure, isn't it ironic?
[01:59] <Burgundavia> I don't even know what the problem is, as xchat just crashed on me
 pappy-: he's a funny kid
 yep
 or just work like everyone else
 MadMethod: he just cant shut the fuck up and do something
 he has to CC half the planet every time he takes a shit
 and then write it up in a 12 page pdf
 maybe spanish docs
 hah
[02:03] <trulux> I can imagine what's that following up
[02:03] <trulux> though I have pappy- in my ignore list
[02:03] <trulux> maybe 'cos you and others suspended him, funny
[02:03] <tseng> for the record that has little to do with ubuntu, and is related by a dangling pointer
[02:04] <trulux> isn't it ironic? how jerks can come up together to fsck those who make the feeling less than they think?
[02:04] <trulux> tseng: biased? I don't think so
[02:04] <\sh> pappy-?
[02:04] <trulux> really, say everything or just shut up but don't come up with your biased-I-don't-like-that-kid shit
[02:04] <\sh> he was gentoo dev right? before he left the project
[02:05] <tseng> you are probably proving my point here, but can you please not bring a flame into this channel?
[02:05] <trulux> \sh: that german jerk who spends time insulting and disturbing around while his kids grow up without the cheering of a father, yes
[02:05] <trulux> that one
[02:05] <Kamion> guys, if it wasn't in an Ubuntu context to start with, please don't bring it in here
[02:05] <trulux> Kamion: it's quite related to it
[02:05] <\sh> trulux: i know him so i shut my mouth :)
[02:06] <trulux> \sh: thanks, I'm just trying to get things on board and shut the mouth of this jerk off
[02:06] <Kamion> count to ten and have a coffee; no point escalating things
[02:06] <trulux> \sh: I don't want to disturb anyone else from here, I've found many good people around to make such a weird thing
[02:07] <Kamion> hm, maybe not a coffee. :-)
[02:07] <trulux> Kamion: definitely not
[02:07] <trulux> ;)
[02:07] <\sh> check planet...this i did today :)
[02:07] <\sh> brain reset :)
[02:07] <trulux> tseng: so, can you please tell me what's wrong? that I'm 15 and you don't like it?
[02:07] <trulux> \sh: haha, done
[02:07] <\sh> and now I'm feeling fine...spend some money, bought new hardware
[02:08] <mdke> while we're on the subject of planet, has anyone tried putting an "s" after the http in its address? is that meant to happen?
[02:08] <trulux> \sh: I'm feeling violent now, both in verbal and physical terms. like taking someone's nose bleeding
[02:09] <trulux> \sh: I'm just cold enough to not put things on the right place right now
[02:09] <daniels> trulux: so walk away from your computer until you don't feel violent.
[02:09] <trulux> \sh: it's better to do that once you get cool and chill
[02:09] <trulux> daniels: no way
[02:09] <\sh> trulux: i will tell you something now about pappy: don
[02:09] <daniels> trulux: this had nothing to do with ubuntu, and the stuff with pappy- especially doesn't have anything to do with ubuntu.  take it somewhere else.
[02:10] <\sh> 't take him serious..he has problems, he had problems with other devs from gentoo..and he to step back and he left.
[02:10] <daniels> why are we arguing about gentoo developers in #ubuntu-devel?
[02:10] <\sh> so for me, he's no one to worry about.
[02:10] <trulux> daniels: to #gentoo-hardened-dev? my mentor is away, and some jerks keep around far away of the point
[02:10] <tseng> #gentoo-hardened-dev is +s
[02:10] <Kamion> if you're feeling violent, please do not bring that here. thank you.
[02:11] <trulux> \sh: I've more information about pappy- and he needs real counseling, I'm just decent enough to not make it now flowing around
[02:11] <daniels> look, put it this way.  the entire discussion (trulux vs tseng, pappy-) is massively off-topic.  it's also over.  the next person to try to carry it on gets a +q, ok?
[02:11] <ajmitch> trulux: more bluntly - be quiet, you're making a fool of yourself 
[02:11] <tseng> daniels: rock on.
[02:12] <trulux> \sh: what I said: he is doing some weird stuff instead of keeping closer to his kids and wife. no need to get me more explicit nor wicked to cause damage on top of that, it's *their* choice.
[02:12] <trulux> ajmitch: hah, no need. my reputation is far away of being affected by these jerks
[02:15] <\sh> trulux: i know whats behind this all of pappy...and I don't take him serious..if he needs counseling or not it's not my business. he's not recognized by many of serious devs, even if he is one of the most incredible coders out there
[02:16] <mdke> geez
[02:17] <mdke> so did anyone check out https://planet.ubuntu.com?
[02:17] <tseng> mdke: hm :P
[02:17] <mdke> is that supposed to happen?
[02:18] <tseng> its probably a default ssl vhost
[02:18] <tseng> you can only have one ssl vhost active per ip address
[02:18] <tseng> others get routed to it as you see here.
[02:18] <mdke> ok
[02:19] <Burgundavia> is there a reason that p.u.c doesn't syndicate kinnisons blog, but p.d.o. does?
[02:19] <tseng> Burgundavia: i think p.d.o just was recently fixed
[02:19] <Burgundavia> ah, and U hasn't been?
[02:21] <tseng> possibly not
[02:47] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[02:54] <camilotelles> Kamion: is there?
[04:09] <jiyuu0> apt-get install samba will prompt during installation
[04:10] <jiyuu0> anyway to bypass the prompt
[04:10] <jiyuu0> something like settings the default answer?
[04:10] <daniels> -y
[04:13] <jiyuu0> i don't mean the -y thingi
[04:13] <jiyuu0> e.g. samba, linpopup, nessus
[04:13] <jiyuu0> will prompt once they install
[04:13] <jiyuu0> i'm planning to write an unattended script
[04:13] <jiyuu0> but these 3 will get stuck
[04:13] <jiyuu0> cause they prompt for inputs :(
[04:32] <infinity> jiyuu0 : Erm, doesn't samba use debconf to prompt?
[04:32] <infinity> jiyuu0 : (That's a rhetorical question, I know it uses debconf)
[04:32] <jiyuu0> anyway not asking them to prompt on apt-get install samba
[04:33] <infinity> So, DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get install samba
[04:34] <infinity> If you never want packages to prompt, do "dpkg-reconfigure debconf", and select "critical" priority" and "noninteractive" frontend.
[04:34] <infinity> (You may want to make sure you check root's mail spool for notes about questions you miss, in that case)
[04:34] <infinity> And if you don't want stuff to prompt, but you want set answers, read about debconf preseeding.
[04:35] <infinity> And all of this belongs in a different channel (#ubuntu), but I didn't check before I started typing.
[04:36] <jiyuu0> ok... i'll check out what u advice
[04:36] <jiyuu0> thanks :)
[04:47] <trulux> daniels: thanks
[04:47] <trulux> sorry about the flame that came out here
[04:48] <trulux> hopefully things will get clarified themselves soon
[05:41] <fabbione> morning
[05:43] <sladen> nn
[07:37] <jiyuu0> Fresh from oven...
[07:37] <jiyuu0> New Release: UbuntuGuide Add-On-CD (27th May 2005)
[07:37] <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuguide.org/add-on-cd
[07:37] <jiyuu0> Changes:
[07:37] <jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=191197&postcount=46
[07:38] <bob2> you dropped the JRE?
[07:38] <bob2> but kept w32codecs?
[07:38] <jiyuu0> sun-j2re
[07:38] <bob2> oh, it's sun jre now
[07:38] <jiyuu0> it uses backports 
[07:38] <bob2> I'm pretty sure you're breaking the law by distributing either of those things
[07:38] <jiyuu0> so there .deb for it
[07:39] <jiyuu0> yikes...
[07:39] <bob2> afaik no one can distribute w32codecs
[07:39] <jiyuu0> mepis?
[07:40] <bob2> er, no
[07:40] <bob2> unless they actually wrote all those microsoft and real DLLs themselves
[07:40] <jiyuu0> mepis includes em
[07:40] <bob2> if mepis jumped off a cliff...
[07:41] <jiyuu0> or should i just remove the whole thing
[07:42] <bob2> surely you looked at the license of stuff before distributing them from your website?
[07:42] <whiprush> bob2!
[07:42] <bob2> whiprush: I WANT FRIDGE.
[07:42] <daniels> bob2: that's not even a name!
[07:43] <whiprush> bob2: soon
[07:43] <daniels> jiyuu0: it really is illegal, btw
[07:43] <jiyuu0> so should i discontinue it
[07:44] <bob2> you should read the license for each thing and see if you're allowed to distribute each bit at all
[07:44] <bob2> there is a reason this stuff isn't in ubuntu itself
[07:44] <jiyuu0> there is a country limitation for this
[07:44] <bob2> some of it is fine, e.g. nvu/clamav
[07:44] <jiyuu0> i heard some country don't really have such law right?
[07:44] <daniels> um, every country has copyright law
[07:44] <bob2> this is just normal copyright law
[07:44] <daniels> this isn't patents
[07:44] <bob2> you don't have permission from MS to distribute their DLLs, therefore you can't
[07:45] <daniels> this is the licence saying 'YOU MAY NOT DO THIS', where 'this' is exactly what you're doing
[07:45] <bob2> just like you can't distribute MS Word on cd-rs
[07:45] <daniels> including redistributing the DLLs, using it in other applications, etc
[07:45] <jiyuu0> gosh...
[07:46] <jiyuu0> how bout the instructions?
[07:46] <fabbione> daniels:
[07:46] <fabbione>  checking dynamic linker characteristics... /build/sparcbuildd/dbus-0.33/./configure: line 17745: gcj: command not found
[07:47] <fabbione> daniels: perhaps you need to build-dep on gcj :P
[07:47] <quitte> what is the default compiler you are using?
[07:48] <bob2> gcc 4.0 is the default in breezy
[07:48] <daniels> fabbione: we don't build java bindings
[07:48] <daniels> fabbione: that didn't cause an ftbfs, no?
[07:48] <fabbione> daniels: nope.. it's only a warning
[07:49] <quitte> bob2 wow. did you use gcc-3.4 before maybe?
[07:49] <bob2> 3.3 was the default before
[07:50] <daniels> jiyuu0: fabbione cool
[07:50] <daniels> er
[07:50] <daniels> fabbione: cool
[07:50] <fabbione> yeah ehehe
[07:50] <quitte> :( 
[07:50] <daniels> jiyuu0: whether or not you can provide instructions is uncertain
[07:50] <quitte> i guess i
[07:50] <daniels> jiyuu0: but distributing it is definitely very illegal
[07:50] <quitte> 'd better move forward to 4.0 then.
[07:50] <jiyuu0> if i stop it right now... how bout those that ppl already downloaded it or the mirros?
[07:51] <bob2> jiyuu0: you should tell the mirrors they shouldn't be distributing it either
[07:51] <jiyuu0> oh
[07:52] <bob2> and you probably should put a note on the ubuntuguide website saying people shouldn't be distributing it to other people, either
[07:52] <jiyuu0> ok
[07:52] <jiyuu0> i'll do it
[07:52] <jiyuu0> it's really sad
[07:53] <bob2> yes
[07:53] <bob2> proprietary formats suck
[07:53] <jiyuu0> but so far is there any of this cases?
[07:53] <bob2> this is straight copyright infringement
[07:53] <jiyuu0> that someone being charged for distributing em
[07:54] <bob2> this is equivalent to giving your friends copies of windows or whatever
[07:54] <daniels> jiyuu0: this is not a legal 'grey area'
[07:54] <daniels> this is something that you really, really, cannot do
[07:55] <jiyuu0> ok
[07:55] <jiyuu0> removing...
[07:58] <jiyuu0> ok... too down the page already
[07:58] <jiyuu0> this really sux
[07:59] <jiyuu0> sux so bad
[08:00] <bob2> don't forget to update the "add-on cd" section to include what happened to it and why
[08:01] <jiyuu0> temporary chmod 000 it
[08:01] <jiyuu0> will update it shortly
[08:05] <jiyuu0> bob2,  is this 2 lines ok?
[08:05] <jiyuu0> Due to copyright issues, UbuntuGuide Add-On-CD is discontinued immediately.
[08:05] <jiyuu0> I would sincerely like to make an apology to those copyright holders...
[08:05] <bob2> heh, ok
[08:07] <jiyuu0> yub... done
[08:16] <daniels> so, you may not think this
[08:16] <daniels> but when every binary in xbase-clients is actually a directory (i.e. /usr/bin/setxkbmap and EVERYTHING ELSE are directories), X gets really unhapy
[08:17] <daniels> bonus points for having a broken XKB map, so you have to SSH in and run chvt
[08:18] <bob2> yay breezy
[08:20] <Amaranth> jiyuu0: Don't apologise, you'll just draw attention to yourself.
[08:21] <jiyuu0> oh.. ok
[08:22] <fabbione> daniels: can you try to build gle in a fresh breezy buildd chroot?
[08:22] <fabbione> or sbuild it
[08:22] <fabbione> i get that with xorg -20 i can't satisfy b-d
[08:22] <daniels> gle?
[08:23] <fabbione> yeah it's a package called gle
[08:23] <daniels> checking now
[08:23] <jiyuu0> Amaranth, corrected
[08:23] <Amaranth> jiyuu0: Oh, I meant don't go telling everyone you were distributing this illegal thing and now you've stopped. :)
[08:24] <jiyuu0> so meaning?
[08:24] <jiyuu0> took the whole page down?
[08:24] <Amaranth> Just say you're not making it anymore or something.
[08:24] <fabbione> daniels: it looks like a b-d messup in Conflicts | Whatever
[08:24] <daniels> fabbione: freeglut3 needs a recompile
[08:24] <daniels> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libx11-6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxext6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), xlibmesa-gl | libgl1, xlibmesa-glu | libglu1, libglut3 (>= 3.7-25)
[08:24] <jiyuu0> Amaranth, so i sentence will do
[08:24] <jiyuu0> UbuntuGuide Add-On-CD is discontinued immediately
[08:25] <jiyuu0> UbuntuGuide Add-On-CD is discontinued
[08:25] <Amaranth> that'd work
[08:26] <daniels> bob2: and this is the stuff that I *don't* upload
[08:26] <bob2> hahahaha
[08:28] <fabbione> humpf..
[08:28] <fabbione> we should probably get elmo/infinity/lamont to do a mass rebuild for breezy and see what's the status
[08:32] <jiyuu0> bob2, mrbass said he's willing to take the risk of hosting the files
[08:32] <jiyuu0> but if the CD is build by me
[08:33] <jiyuu0> do i get myself in trouble?
[08:34] <daniels> yes
[08:38] <jiyuu0> ok... guess i'm done wif it
[08:38] <jiyuu0> bye bye Add-On
[08:42] <Amaranth> that reminds me, who do i poke to get gxine rebuilt? :)
[09:10] <jdub> daniels: um
[09:10] <jdub> daniels: dude
[09:11] <daniels> jdub: represent
[09:12] <jdub> daniels: so i just plugged my laptop into a projector
[09:13] <jdub> daniels: and the output was... it was like the entire room was on lsd
[09:13] <daniels> awesome
[09:13] <daniels> did you bust out some glowsticks?
[09:13] <bob2> DRUG PARAPHENALIA
[09:14] <daniels> jdub: were you using i855crt, or what was happening?
[09:14] <daniels> maybe it was just running too high a res+refresh for the projector
[09:14] <ogra> daniels, he already did represent .... claimed the stage ;)
[09:14] <jdub> yeah, i855crt at 75Hz
[09:14] <jdub> maybe i should try without the overlay stuff
[09:15] <daniels> jdub: try at 60
[09:15] <jdub> ok
[09:16] <jdub> no dice
[09:16] <jdub> same ugliness
[09:16] <daniels> jdub: try my xorg.conf
[09:16] <jdub> it looks like a palette issue
[09:16] <daniels> jdub: try http://amnesiac.heapspace.net/~daniels/misc/xorg.conf
[09:17] <fabbione> daniels: how much hack do i need to do to upgrade X today? :)
[09:17] <daniels> fabbione: just symlink your XKeySymDB and it should be OK
[09:17] <fabbione> daniels: from where to where?
[09:17] <bob2> drbyte: converted yet?
[09:18] <jdub> hrm
[09:18] <daniels> fabbione: /usr/lib/X11 needs to point to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11
[09:18] <jdub> session not even starting there
[09:18] <jdub> ok, will deal with this later
[09:18] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[09:19] <drbyte> bob2: not today, no !
[09:19] <daniels> fabbione: both /XKeySymDB
[09:19] <daniels> not just sudo ln -s /usr/{X11R6/,}lib/X11
[09:20] <jdub> daniels: what's the XKeySymDB bit?
[09:21] <daniels> jdub: that's if you want your keyboard shortcuts to actually *work*
[09:22] <jdub> daniels: so i've symlinked /usr/lib/X11, what do i do for the xkeysym bit?
[09:22] <daniels> jdub: err ... that's it
[09:22] <jdub> ok
[09:22] <daniels> jdub: you were meant to do sudo ln -s /usr/{X11R6/,}lib/X11/XKeySymDB
[09:23] <daniels> or maybe XKeysymDB
[09:23] <daniels> whatever it is on-isk
[09:23] <daniels> on-disk
[09:23] <Amaranth> i did all that when you told me, didn't fix my shortcuts :/
[09:24] <Amaranth> /usr/lib/X11/xkb -> /etc/X11/xkb
[09:25] <Amaranth> sudo ln -s /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB ?
[09:26] <ogra> Eclipse is a program whic didn't need install and has his own
[09:26] <ogra> update-manager.
[09:26] <ogra> wow, you see me impressed....
[09:26] <ogra> software that doesnt need install....
[09:26] <ogra> just flies into your system by esotric rays.....
[09:27] <daniels> Amaranth: yeah
[09:27] <bob2> goddamn
[09:27] <bob2> hoary makes a really creepy noise on login
[09:27] <daniels> bob2: you should supplant it with some samples from dmc champions vol 2
[09:27] <daniels> bob2: available at a 24h jb near you!
[09:27] <bob2> daniels: ah ah ah !
[09:28] <daniels> hahsa
[09:29] <Amaranth> damn, no luck
[09:29] <Amaranth> any thing else i can try? :)
[09:29] <daniels> um
[09:29] <daniels> are you running amd64?
[09:30] <Amaranth> no
[09:30] <Amaranth> x86
[09:30] <daniels> because I was having the same problem, and just fixed it locally
[09:30] <daniels> ok, can't give you a new deb to test then
[09:30] <daniels> so when you run xev and hit ctrl-a, f.e., it gives you (no symbol)?
[09:31] <Amaranth> i don't have xev, what package is that in?
[09:31] <Amaranth> i wonder if that's the problem?
[09:32] <Amaranth> oh, it's just not in my path
[09:33] <Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/9kLcIg63.html <--me hitting Ctrl-C
[09:34] <daniels> so, if it helps, try sudo for i in /usr/X11R6/bin/*; do ln -s $i /usr/bin/$(basename $i); done
[09:35] <Amaranth> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `do'
[09:36] <daniels> sudo sh -c 'for i in /usr/X11R6/bin/*; do ln -s $i /usr/bin/$(basename $i); done', in that case
[09:36] <daniels> forgot about the semi-colon
[09:36] <Amaranth> ok
[09:37] <Amaranth> got some warnings about symlinks i'd already made, otherwise it's all good
[09:37] <Amaranth> restart X?
[09:37] <Amaranth> does that paste tell you anything?
[09:39] <Amaranth> i give up :/
[10:29] <fabb1one> daniels: ?
[10:29] <bob2> jdub: "Jeff seemed pretty excited about this; I got the feeling Ubuntu would be switching to Thunar pretty shortly!"
[10:30] <fabb1one> bob2: what was the solution for X not finding fixed fonts?
[10:32] <bob2> fabbione: point X.org at /usr/share/X11/fonts for fonts, iirc
[10:33] <bob2> since fonts went from lib -> share
[10:33] <fabbione> meh
[10:33] <fabbione> not all of them tho
[10:33] <fabbione> ok
[10:33] <bob2> well, adding it as a FontPath, I mean
[10:33] <fabbione> that should be handled automagically :/
[10:34] <fabbione> thanks :)
[10:34] <bob2> np :)
[10:40] <daniels> fabbione: there'll be a symlink later
[10:43] <fabbione> daniels: so /usr/lib/X11 symlink to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 + the font path...
[10:43] <fabbione> do i miss anything?
[10:45] <bob2> daniels: firegl on rdaeon 9250 is stupid, right?
[10:46] <fabbione> apparently it works...
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: i didn't add the font paths.. just sed the ones already there
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: btw to compile nvidia just export CC=gcc-3.4 before invoking the installer.. that will make it work with 2.6.12
[10:48] <Mithrandir> hm, does arch bloat the size of binaries checked into it noticeably?
[10:49] <bob2> it stores two copies everytime you commit a change
[10:49] <Mithrandir> I doubt I'll ever change those data.
[10:49] <fabbione> daniels: something else is utterly wrong :)
[10:50] <Mithrandir> (I'm looking for a sane RCS to handle my photo collection)
[10:50] <bob2> then you'll just get one copy + tiny amount of metadata
[10:50] <Mithrandir> ok, that's good.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> apparently, svn bloats it by 50% or so
[10:51] <fabbione> daniels: /usr/bin/X11 :)
[10:52] <bob2> but ammortizes that by using an xdelta-style diff for future changes
[10:53] <Mithrandir> bob2: I tend not to change my photos much
[10:53] <bob2> heh, yeah
[10:53] <Mithrandir> I hate file systems.  Or hardware.  Or both.
[11:17] <mdke> jdub, ping?
[12:50] <daniels> bob2: yes
[12:50] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, /usr/bin/X11 is coming
[12:53] <fabbione> daniels: ok....
[01:38] <mdke> jdub, here yet?
[02:00] <Riddell> that was seb and ogra on the guadec stream
[02:02] <camilotelles> Kamion: ping.
[02:16] <Kamion> camilotelles: hi
[02:16] <camilotelles> hi Kamion, can you talk now?
[02:17] <Kamion> sure
[02:18] <camilotelles> did you saw my chat with mdz? kiko already talked with us about the coding style and approch problems of the installer script.
[02:18] <Kamion> I didn't see your chat with mdz, no
[02:19] <camilotelles> kiko talked with me about the problems in the script. the approach used and the lack of style.
[02:20] <camilotelles> I agree with this diagnostic.
[02:20] <Kamion> well, this is why we put together a specification in advance
[02:20] <camilotelles> I know. 
[02:21] <camilotelles> I think that we need to understand better the d-i.
[02:22] <Kamion> we were thinking that it might make more sense for somebody who knows the installer well to put together a top-level framework that you guys can work within
[02:23] <Kamion> we had hoped that it might be possible for you to do the framework as well, but in retrospect perhaps it was a bit ambitious to expect people to do that with no prior knowledge
[02:23] <camilotelles> I agree with it. But I want to take a conservative approach to not jeopardize the project.
[02:24] <camilotelles> If there is someone who can put the framework I think that we can handle some bits of the code. But I think that we can help better in the test team.
[02:26] <Kamion> well, I don't want to totally reject your coding help; it's a matter of guidance more than anything else
[02:26] <camilotelles> thats great.
[02:26] <Kamion> unfortunately you did catch me in a particularly busy week, and the timezone thing made it too difficult to work with you in helping to get a framework together, which was a shame
[02:27] <camilotelles> but you guys have time for it?
[02:27] <Kamion> not really, but we'll have to create time somehow ;-)
[02:27] <Kamion> gotta be done ...
[02:28] <camilotelles> thats ok. but I think that we have to take care with the risk.
[02:29] <camilotelles> when you put the framework we have to make some milestones clear.
[02:31] <camilotelles> But we have others interest too. as a tester and user. and maybe contributing with some code.
[02:33] <Kamion> yes, some degree of project management will be necessary as for all our other large goals
[02:33] <camilotelles> thats ok. what do you think will be the next steps?
[02:41] <Kamion> camilotelles: I haven't really had a chance to think about it yet - I imagine somebody will have to sit down for a while and write a script that runs the top-level procedures defined in the UbuntuExpress spec, with TODO comments left where components don't exist yet
[02:42] <Kamion> we can use debconf for all the interaction, and then when ogra's GUI appears it'll just preset the relevant debconf answers and the UE backend code won't have to change at all
[02:42] <Kamion> (I hope)
[02:44] <camilotelles> kamion: ok. Iin the meantime we will focus to port our scripts from Knoppix to Ubuntu. We have automated the customization process of the knoppix and put everythink inside one svn repository. So we can do build in one step and we can reproduce any custom version that we have already made.
[02:45] <Kamion> ok
[02:46] <camilotelles> I think that a lot of our work is similar with the work that you are doing in BrandingForDerivatives. We are interested in this.
[02:47] <Kamion> really?
[02:47] <camilotelles> sure. in an ugly way, but sure it is.
[02:48] <camilotelles> (remenber or last script)
[02:48] <camilotelles> s/remenber/remember
[02:48] <Kamion> hm, ok. I guess we're trying to do it at a lower level; much of our goal is to arrange for derivatives to have to do only a trivial amount of work to brand
[02:49] <camilotelles> exactly. I think when your work is done, we can reduce or script and put it more cleaner.
[02:50] <camilotelles> we can help to test this part too.
[02:51] <camilotelles> kamion: and because we are doing our job for a computer manufacturer, we are interested in the OEMInstaller.
[02:52] <Kamion> that one I've only *just* started
[02:52] <Kamion> not much to show yet
[02:52] <camilotelles> ok. when you need to test, you can call us. 
[02:52] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[02:53] <camilotelles> and finally, we have a lot of hardware here. sometimes new stuff. only MSI and Intel stuff. Ex: last week we are with an engineering intel board here.
[02:57] <camilotelles> kamion: is it. we will be waiting for the installer stuff. when you think that we can help, call us. We will be always in the# ubuntu-devel and surak will be in a better time to meet you in the channel.
[03:58] <ogra> grrr
[03:59] <ogra> guadec locks port 25 on the router....
[03:59] <ogra> everything else is open, but you cant send mails by smtp
[04:00] <Nafallo> ogra: ssmtp? :-)
[04:00] <ogra> Nafallo, yes, if i had the time to reconfigure my server
[04:02] <seb128> who needs to send mails anyway
[04:22] <trulux> chris38-home: here?
[04:22] <trulux> chris38-home: how are you doing man!?
[05:29] <zul> hey
[05:34] <trulux> heya zul 
[05:34] <zul> hey Treenaks 
[05:34] <zul> damn it..trulux :)
[07:42] <trulux> mpt: ping
[07:58] <Robot101> anyone know of any samba4 snapshot debs?
[07:59] <Lathiat> Robot101: no but i was considering making some
[08:32] <{Seb}> hey all
[08:32] <{Seb}> just upgrading to breezy
[08:32] <{Seb}> it looks pretty sweet
[08:33] <cartman> bad time to upgrade
[08:33] <{Seb}> why?
[08:33] <cartman> X is broken
[08:33] <{Seb}> since when?
[08:33] <cartman> since long time
[08:33] <{Seb}> when is it going to be fixed
[08:34] <cartman> with next X.org upload I hope
[08:34] <cartman> no ETA on that though 
[08:34] <cartman> so don't upgrade now
[08:34] <cartman> or don't upgrade xorg bits
[08:34] <{Seb}> i'm just on breey to check out mono and beagle
[08:35] <{Seb}> i'm a beagle hacker
[08:35] <{Seb}> normally using suse 9.3
[08:38] <{Seb}> the only broken package i could find was tomboy 0.3.2
[08:39] <{Seb}> when is gcc 4 coming in?
[08:40] <Nafallo> {Seb}: ehm... read topic ;-)
[08:40] <cartman> its in
[08:40] <{Seb}> how is xorg broken?
[08:40] <{Seb}> if i install it, will my system not boot up?
[08:40] <cartman> it won't start X
[08:41] <{Seb}> i'll just do a 'Force Version' then
[08:41] <{Seb}> or Lock Version even!
[08:41] <{Seb}> will that work
[08:42] <cartman> just don't upgrade xserver-xorg
[08:42] <{Seb}> why does everything depend upon openoffice2?
[08:42] <{Seb}> i didn't want to install it
[08:43] <{Seb}> as it is out of date but if i don't install it
[08:43] <{Seb}> then everything else won't install :-(
[08:46] <{Seb}> btw, when is the release of breezy going to be made?
[08:48] <Nafallo> {Seb}: 5.10
[08:48] <Nafallo> {Seb}: i.e. October 2005
[08:49] <{Seb}> now that makes sense
[08:50] <{Seb}> is it true that ubuntu might be moving to  Thunar as a file manager
[08:58] <{Seb}> when Xorg is fixed and Tomboy is fixed, is there a way of finding out?
[08:58] <{Seb}> mailing list?
[08:58] <{Seb}> or just this IRC channel
[08:58] <mdke> in breezy things don't stay fixed all the time
[08:59] <mdke> best plan is to assume they will break
[08:59] <{Seb}> in what sort of time table will things start to even out
[08:59] <mdke> by october it will be stable
[08:59] <{Seb}> not before that?
[09:00] <{Seb}> hoary was stable in about February IIRC
[09:00] <mdke> well it kind of depends on what you want to do with your system
[09:00] <{Seb}> mono development
[09:00] <{Seb}> beagle hacking
[09:00] <{Seb}> hula hacking
[09:00] <{Seb}> and a bit of tomboy possibly
[09:00] <mdke> as in ubuntu packaging?
[09:00] <Lathiat> the moral of the story is not to run breezy if you want to get any work done :)
[09:01] <Lathiat> run it in a chroot or something
[09:01] <{Seb}> sounds a good idea
[09:01] <{Seb}> mdke: as in finding problems with the code, not packaging
[09:01] <mdke> k
[09:01] <mdke> well i don't know, but sounds like a stable system would be the way forward
[09:01] <{Seb}> mdke: i don't understand of all the packaging system with ubuntu
[09:02] <{Seb}> yeh but there is the mono problem
[09:02] <{Seb}> mono in breezy is looking good
[09:02] <{Seb}> mono in backports is sh*t
[09:02] <{Seb}> mono is hoary is tooo odl
[09:02] <{Seb}> or I could just use SUSE 9.3!
[09:02] <Lathiat> s/mono in//g
[09:03] <{Seb}> what?
[09:03] <Lathiat> "backports is sh*t"
[09:03] <Lathiat> no need for the mono qualifier :)
[09:03] <{Seb}> lol
[09:04] <mdke> won't you want the latest version if you are working on the code? maybe you can install it from cvs or whatever they use
[09:04] <{Seb}> that's what i'll be doing
[09:04] <{Seb}> tomboy and beagle from cvs
[09:04] <{Seb}> but mono from packages me hopes
[09:05] <mdke> maybe qemu?
[09:06] <{Seb}> what is qeum?
[09:06] <{Seb}> the name rings a bell
[09:06] <{Seb}> as long as the basic things work
[09:06] <{Seb}> like GNOME and Evolution, I'm fine
[09:06] <mdke> its an emulator
[09:06] <mdke> i haven't tried it tho
[09:06] <mdke> there is an old guide on the wiki
[09:06] <{Seb}> like xen?
[09:06] <cartman> qemu is slow
[09:07] <mdke> yeah you'll need a good comp
[09:07] <cartman> Xen is fast but needs a custom kernel
[09:07] <cartman> mdke: I have an Athlon64 3500+ 1gb  RAM
[09:07] <cartman> its truly slow
[09:07] <cartman> Xen shines though
[09:07] <{Seb}> will Xen be intergral in Breezy
[09:07] <{Seb}> like in SUSE?
[09:08] <cartman> Xen better integrate itself with kernel first
[09:08] <cartman> Getting into -mm would be a good start
[09:09] <Nafallo> {Seb}: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Xen
[09:10] <{Seb}> mmmm
[09:10] <mdke> cartman, wow thats a nice computer
[09:11] <{Seb}> what is BOF
[09:11] <cartman> mdke: well qemu is slooow :)
[09:11] <mdke> {Seb}, it means brainstorming session
[09:11] <mdke> cartman, ok
[09:36] <{Seb}> everyone in the ubuntu community is so helpful
[09:36] <{Seb}> even stupid questions like BOF and packaging means i don't get flammed
[09:36] <{Seb}> sorry
[09:46] <mdke> {Seb}, debian is the answer
[09:47] <mdke> mainly
[09:53] <kent> mdke, but its kind of strange. Isn't Debian famous for a very unfriendly (for beginners) irc-channel etc? And #ubuntu is more or less the opposite.
[09:54] <mdke> kent, yes thats true
[09:54] <mdke> not just for beginners either
[09:54] <mdke> last time I went in there to ask a genuine debian related question, someone did a whois on me, saw I was on lots of ubuntu channels, and started swearing at me :p
[09:55] <zenrox> fegueries
[09:55] <zenrox> ubuntu bastared son of debian
[09:55] <zenrox> heheheh
[09:56] <kent> mdke, I got the fealing that some Debian-people are upset becaus lots of Ubuntu-newbies send bugreports/questions to them, rather than to Ubuntu. But that might have changed?
[09:56] <mdke> kent, yeah that's right, but still, just being in ubuntu channels doesn't mean i can't run debian on one of my systems
[09:57] <kent> mdke, No, and people should behave better aswell. :)
[09:57] <zenrox> who know
[09:57] <zenrox> s
[09:57] <mdke> now I can just ask in #ubuntu for debian related advice ;)
[10:00] <{Seb}> i run debian on my server
[10:00] <{Seb}> when i went into #debian and asked a question relating to Qmail
[10:00] <mdke> yeah
[10:00] <{Seb}> and then mentioned Ubuntu, it was like my hair was on fire
[10:00] <mdke> *laughs*
[10:00] <mdke> nice imagery
[10:01] <{Seb}> why can't they accept that some like don't want to use exim
[10:01] <mdke> hi thesaltydog 
[10:01] <azeem> {Seb}: "they" is obviously not "Debian"
[10:02] <{Seb}> they is some of the debian community
[10:02] <mdke> just applies to the irc channel
[10:03] <{Seb}> i'm suprised that Progency isn't more popular
[10:04] <{Seb}> probally because ubuntu has stolen that spot!
[10:08] <anna> Hello everybody, I have two questions: First, how do I debootstrap breezy from hoary, is that possible directly anyway?
[10:09] <anna> Second: When is the next xorg update in Breezy ready? :-)
[10:10] <pitti> anna: this is #ubuntu matter, however
[10:10] <pitti> anna: 1) sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:11] <pitti> 2) just wait a bit more, breezy is currently *very* broken
[10:11] <pitti> anna: for 1), you can also use synaptic, of course :-)
[10:11] <anna> pitti: I want to make a chroot with breezy and not break my hoary
[10:11] <pitti> anna: ah :-)
[10:11] <pitti> anna: well, debootstrap is nice for that
[10:12] <anna> Except that I can only debootstrap Debian with Hoary?!
[10:12] <pitti> who told you that?
[10:12] <anna> debootstrap :p
[10:12] <tseng> you need the breezy scripts to debootstrap breezy
[10:13] <tseng> that might be worth a hoary-update, debootstrap from breezy pulls back glibc
[10:13] <pitti> anna: yes, of course, you need breezy's debootstrap, but that is able to install Debian slink to sarge and Ubuntu warty to breezy
[10:13] <anna> hm.... so I am now making a hoary chroot
[10:13] <pitti> anna: just compile the breezy debootstrap for hoary
[10:13] <anna> Then dist-upgrade it there
[10:13] <azeem> anna: you can just extract the breezy script from the .deb
[10:13] <azeem> no need to install it
[10:13] <tseng> pitti: easier to make a hoary and dist-upgrade
[10:14] <tseng> yep :P
[10:14] <anna> ah... ok, that will be easier
[10:14] <tseng> or thats what I do now anyway
[10:14] <azeem> of course, that might not work in practise due to brokeness etc.
[10:14] <tseng> timtowtdi
[10:14] <anna> Well, I actually want to unbreak my machine's X
[10:14] <cartman> tseng: perl monger? :)
[10:15] <tseng> cartman: no, i am forced to write tcl
[10:15] <anna> So I wanted to prepare a package without the diff that kills all the keys
[10:15] <tseng> cartman: and php
[10:15] <cartman> oh :/
[10:15] <thesaltydog> mdke, matt??
[10:15] <mdke> thesaltydog, yes
[10:15] <thesaltydog> nice to meet you here
[10:15] <cartman> timtowtdi is kinda a perl signature, isn't it? :)
[10:15] <mdke> thesaltydog, we met the other day ;) but hi
[10:16] <anna> btw, except for X breakage, Breezy is not THAT bad so far...
[10:16] <cartman> anyway time to sleep
[10:22] <{Seb}> i agree
[10:22] <{Seb}> i've just done a 'Forced Version' of xorg packages and it seems to be fine
[10:29] <mdke> is there an official list of initscripts used in Ubuntu?
[10:30] <anna> {Seb}: What do you mean, a versioned downgrade?
[10:30] <{Seb}> i installed hoary
[10:30] <{Seb}> but when i changed the repos to breezy
[10:30] <{Seb}> i pressed 'Force Version' in Synaptic
[10:30] <{Seb}> so xorg isn't touched
[10:30] <anna> Ah... I see.
[10:45] <pitti> trulux: here?
[10:46] <pitti> ajmitch: ping
[10:47] <{Seb}> btw
[10:48] <{Seb}> is it kernel 2.6.12-1 that has the latest inotify enabled as default?
[10:48] <JStrike> Yes
[10:49] <{Seb}> it's coming down now
[10:53] <JStrike> Does ubuntu-devel have anything similar to Burrito?
[10:53] <Amaranth> nope, we have services
[10:54] <Amaranth> instead of 'Burrito: seen foo' you do /ns info foo
[10:54] <JStrike> ?
[10:54] <JStrike> Thanks
[10:54] <Amaranth> /ns is short for /msg NickServ
[10:54] <JStrike> I get no such command
[10:55] <Amaranth> try /msg NickServ info foo
[10:55] <JStrike> Let me try with /msg NickServ
[10:55] <JStrike> That works
[10:56] <JStrike> Thanks
[11:01] <JStrike> The reply from NickServe, is that just for the channel I am querying from or for the whole of freenode (i.e the person was last seen in #ubuntu-devel x hours ago, or somewhere on freenode x hours ago)
[11:01] <Amaranth> freenode
[11:01] <JStrike> hrm
[11:13] <saintsjd> Quick question from a newbie: There is a package in Ubuntu universe called gdal.  What can I do to make sure that it is fully supported and inclded in the main repository for the breezy release?
[11:20] <pitti> saintsjd: essentially two alternatives:
[11:20] <pitti> 1) write to ubuntu-devel and confine a developer that we can't live without gdal :-)
[11:21] <pitti> 2) become a developer and care for it yourself
[11:21] <tseng> pitti: we were talking about it on -motu also
[11:21] <tseng> pitti: what he really wants is security support for it, which he can help out on in universe as well
[11:21] <pitti> well, right
[11:35] <saintsjd> sorry, I am on the ubuntu-devel. It seems I have things cleared up. Universe will be fine for what GIS apps.  There are not needed by most users.
[12:01] <mx|gone> mjg59: ping