=== |zzzzz [~opera@ppp2B95.dsl.pacific.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === |zzzzz [~opera@ppp2B95.dsl.pacific.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.241.30] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:43] morning [03:43] salut === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:17] whoa its raining so hard outside :( [07:17] is sunny and very hot here === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.215.137] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:24] rainy season has begun [07:33] a german ubuntu book [07:33] hmm [07:40] brb === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@218.111.42.57] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.212.122] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [~seveas@dyn127.roaming.few.vu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:37] what a boring afternoon [09:37] night here [09:38] what you doing? [09:40] cleaning up image copyright on Wikipedia [09:40] a thankless and mostly boring task [09:41] hmm i trying to run ubuntu as a server now (setting up) [09:41] how hard it is to install media wiki? [09:46] (ill probably just use moin to simplify [09:51] media is not packaged, but from what I have heard, one of the easiest to set up [09:51] I would love to see mediawiki, koha, and that RH/Netscape directory server packaged and in Breezy [09:56] what does directory server do? ldap? [10:11] yes, ldap === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.212.122] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:40] hiya [11:41] salut [11:41] hey [11:45] sup [11:47] oh just messing around === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:27] brb === mkde [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:51] *laughs* [12:52] these gnome dudes are crazy === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Jori1 [~ljoris@dD5765A13.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Jori1 [~ljoris@dD5765A13.access.telenet.be] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~froud@ndn-165-138-57.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:57] elo [05:00] oooh nice patches in svn today [05:01] see jerome started on screenshots [05:07] enrico: you home? [05:08] "HP will officially support models nx6110, nc6120, nc6220, nc6230 and [05:08] nc6000. We hear that every component in the aforementioned models [05:08] including LAN, WAN, Modem, Sound, Infrared Link, Firewire, Bluetooth, [05:08] Graphics Adapter, Battery Usage Meter, Suspend to Disk Function, Hotkeys [05:08] and numerous other features will work right out of the box. Apparently, [05:08] HP is determined to make certain models work 100 percent with Ubuntu." [05:08] Here is the article in full: [05:08] http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1341 [05:13] froud: hi [05:13] I'll be home tomorrow [05:13] I'll take a plane in 3 hours [05:13] OK, can wait, I wante dto know if you had spoken to mako about the web sites? === froud off to feast [05:47] mmm feast === froud now stuffed [05:53] *laughs* [05:53] awesome [05:53] mdke: Ok you saw Breezy Release schedule? [05:53] i saw the mail but didn't look at if it affects us [05:53] does it? [05:53] :-) [05:53] of course it does [05:54] what are the changes? === froud grabs mdke by both ears and shakes hard [05:54] we now have a schedule to work by [05:54] lets see if we can just review our targets [05:55] ok cool [05:55] we need a month for translating i would say [05:55] 21 [05:55] [05:55] September 8th [05:55] [05:55] [05:55] /!\ PreviewRelease, /!\ DocumentationStringFreeze [05:55] [05:55] That is our string freeze [05:56] books we want to be done by then include: [05:56] User Guide [05:56] Quick Guide Update [05:56] faqguide [05:56] Yep [05:56] and Install guide [05:57] we need to work out how many sections of the faqguide won't work if we remove the marillat and backports repositories [05:57] these are for gubuntu === mdke hits froud [05:57] can we do the same for kubuntu [05:58] jerome is on kwick guide [05:58] I wrote a formatter module for moin that outputs docbook. [05:58] you are on user guide and soon will have my help [05:58] mvirkkil, yeah we heard :)) [05:58] well the installguide is both right? [05:58] mvirkkil: can you checkin to our svn [05:58] mdke: Wow, cool [05:58] mvirkkil, you don't follow the docteam list? [05:59] we should make the userguide g/k ubuntu too [05:59] mdke: Nope. [05:59] mdke: not sure about that [05:59] froud: Don't know. Can just anyone commit? [05:59] mvirkkil, send us your work and we can check it into our repository and play around [05:59] no, send it to me and I will commit [05:59] sean@inwords.co.za [06:00] mvirkkil: we need instruction on how to use it [06:00] basic stuff and we will document it [06:00] I sent it to Henrik Nielsen Omma. Give me your emails and I'll send it to you too. [06:00] mvirkkil: please send elmo your pgp public keys for an account [06:00] froud: I've written a short "installation instructions blurb", I'll send that too. [06:00] cool [06:01] perhaps enrico can package it [06:01] and we can get it into the distro [06:01] mdke: so what are the target? [06:01] froud: Sent. === froud nods at mvirkkil [06:02] froud, didn't you say 7th september? [06:02] no 21 [06:02] froud: I mean the docbook stuff, not pgp [06:02] [16:55:33] froud September 8th [06:02] mvirkkil: yes ;_0 [06:02] Huh [06:02] See http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule [06:02] froud: What does the ;_O smiley stand for? [06:03] I meant ;-) [06:03] froud, yeah says documentation freeze 8th september [06:03] oh yes [06:03] me kicks himself [06:04] that artwork deadline sucks ass [06:04] cheeky bastards [06:04] we will do OK [06:04] screenshots will be difficult [06:04] no no we just do them [06:04] yeah i know [06:04] the docs can go for translation 8th september [06:04] we can only do what we can do, so long as the docs are correct [06:04] that's the target [06:04] froud: someone sends me the URL to some tarball and I can try to do my best [06:05] enrico: it will be in our svn [06:05] I will mail you [06:05] as long as its in svn [06:05] mvirkkil: python, nice [06:06] froud: Wouldn't have bothered otherwise ;^) [06:06] are we going to get the docs into the language packs or package them separately? [06:06] (froud) [06:08] mvirkkil: ok https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/moin2db/xml_docbook.py [06:08] mdke: dunno :-) [06:08] that is mdz question [06:09] i'll ask em later [06:09] mvirkkil: you know how to use svn right? [06:09] mvirkkil, great work btw [06:09] froud: Yes [06:11] mvirkkil: ok I have now also added the content of your email message as txt file to svn [06:11] mdke: Thanks, still missing features, and probably buggy, but it should work for almost all documents with no macros. [06:11] OK so I understand this [06:11] froud: Thanks (https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/moin2db/manual) [06:11] this py is to port moin to db xml [06:12] In our process we will be using it to port frozen wiki stuff into the docs [06:12] the output should go in incomming === mdke nods [06:12] until we can decide where to put the editorial [06:12] once in svn the wiki doc is not to be edited [06:13] is that right? [06:13] or do we use a2m to port changes back to moin [06:13] the idea was the stable wiki pages would be copied to frozen locations and then ported [06:13] so we are manually roundtripped [06:13] do we have this list yet? [06:13] a team of editors would do that (possibly the people who have commit access to svn) [06:13] the original wiki pages would be left open [06:14] and so how to track changes in the wiki [06:14] we cant keep doing this script [06:14] froud, the process could be repeated about once every release cycle [06:15] Ah yes forgot [06:15] it wouldn't be necessary to do more because the doc would be stable when frozen [06:15] we hope [06:15] there would be a suggestions page for users to suggest which pages are suitable [06:15] Ok [06:15] then the "editors" would decide whether they were suitable for freezing or not [06:16] what happened to the new web site idea [06:16] horse shoe remember [06:16] once the document is ported, it can be (a) put on the website (b) released with the docs (c) put on the cd as pdf etc etc [06:16] maybe translated too [06:16] on what web site? [06:17] ubuntu [06:17] I have asked enrico to speak to mako about getting help.ubuntu.com [06:17] henrik can organise it if you like [06:17] and to use docteam.ubuntu.com [06:17] what would docteam.ubuntu.com be fore? [06:17] fore/for [06:17] I thik help.ubuntu should be for released [06:17] help.ubuntu.com is a nice idea [06:17] henrik can organise that with elmo [06:18] and docteam.ubuntu for in progress [06:18] but in progress is svn [06:18] yes, but we need more visability into progress [06:18] in html at docteam.ubuntu we can get this [06:18] oh right so you mean docteam.ubuntu.com for the svn repo? [06:18] oh right [06:18] yes, just in html [06:18] fair enough [06:18] OK so will you contact Hendrik for this [06:19] if I were you, i'd speak to henrik about this, he can sort it [06:19] *laughs* [06:19] great minds think alike [06:19] :-) [06:19] OK, I will contact him [06:19] either you do it, or I'll do it after i've handed in my exams on friday [06:19] enrico: please note there is no need to speak to mako, we will speak via Hendrik [06:19] ++ [06:19] I will do it, you need to study [06:19] good point [06:19] afk [06:19] I may need a lawyer one day [06:20] froud, i'll be there [06:20] and I want to know that the lawyer is up to it :-) [06:20] *grins* === mdke buys some books on south african law [06:20] we dont have law, it's africa [06:20] ok later [06:20] ok [06:21] mvirkkil: so you will arange a commit account for svn [06:21] that way you have version control and a bunch of testers [06:21] :-) [06:22] froud: Sounds good. Need to learn gpg again. I haven't used it for like 5 years (no need). [06:24] froud: lovely! [06:24] enrico: where are you know, Amsterdam? [06:24] Yes [06:24] need to be at the airport in an hour [06:24] Cool how the girly [06:24] she's fine and cute [06:25] cool man, good for you ;-) [06:25] froud: we're just finishing up a paper we're writing together [06:39] cool, message sent [06:40] OK I now go away and come back as venda :-) see ya in a minute [06:47] mvirkkil: is th epy installed already [06:54] mvirkkil: you there? [06:57] mvirkkil: I want to test your script, can you point me to a server where it is installed [07:06] mvirkkil: I see you have moved up to docbook 4.4. If we move back to 4.3 is it a problem? [07:11] froud: I have no public server where it's installed. [07:11] froud: I'm not very familiar with docbook, I just picked the latest release, and made sure the output validated against the dtd. [07:12] froud: I could open up a port in the firewall for you, but that would be temporary. [07:12] OK, I will move the script in svn down to 4.3 [07:13] how long can you open the port for [07:13] froud: If you give me your IP address, I can open it up for just you. Then I could have it open for a while. [07:14] I too am behind a firewall and router via dsl [07:15] ~froud@ndn-165-138-57.telkomadsl.co.za [07:16] froud: I've opened it up for all. I'll keep it open a couple of days, hoping no one is interested enough to hack it. [07:16] froud: http://85.76.5.53/~mvirkkil/cgi-bin/moin.cgi [07:16] ok [07:18] mvirkkil: anyway to determine headings to sect1. sect2. sect3, etc? [07:19] when " is a character in the value of an element use [07:20] use case: [07:20] [07:20] Tip: [07:20] Shift-click " [07:20] HelpOnEditing [07:20] " to open a second window with the help pages. [07:20] [07:20] [07:20] Tip: [07:20] Shift-click [07:20] HelpOnEditing [07:20] to open a second window with the help pages. [07:20] [07:21] I will change role="strong" to role="bold" [07:25] froud: Wha? You want " to be replaced by quote (not something moin easily does), but what is the rest? [07:26] that's it really, instead of using " we need to use "...." or ..... [07:26] froud: " is simple ... would be extremely difficult to get right. [07:27] ok lets just do " we can easily replace that [07:27] with section can we detect nesting so that we get sect1, sect2, sect3 etc [07:28] froud: The code should gracefully adapt to situations where people use the "=== First Heading ===" stuff wrong [07:28] Yeah, know the problem [07:28] ok [07:28] with section can we detect nesting so that we get sect1, sect2, sect3 etc [07:28] ooop [07:29] svn commit -m * role to v4.3 of dtd * role="strong" now role="bold" xml_docbook.py [07:29] froud: I mean that my code does that. That's why I used section instead of sect1, it was easier to code this way. [07:29] yes I see that you use section [07:29] if it is a problem then leave it as such [07:31] froud: It shouldn't be impossible, since

currently gets it right. It was just easier the first time around to do it like that. [07:31] yeah theat's the problem, we depend on correct usag eof moin synax [07:31] how about admonitions [07:31] like [07:32] [07:32] Tip: [07:32] Shift-click " [07:32] HelpOnEditing [07:32] " to open a second window with the help pages. [07:32] [07:32] we would do [07:32] [07:32] etc [07:32] anyway of handling those? [07:33] also linking [07:33] HelpOnEditing [07:34] froud: The linking code is quite broken atm [07:34] for us would be [07:34] actually valu eof linkend would be = to value of id on target [07:35] [07:35] but this requires some way to markup the moin: -( [07:36] Perhaps using { } [07:37] InterWiki is good [07:37] someone@the.inter.net is wrong do [07:37] someone@the.inter.net [07:38] froud: tags should work, or at least I think I remember there was a way to get them working. [07:39] the docbook xsl handles out the box :-) [07:39] no need for tinker [07:40] good, missing depth in cm scalefit="1" [07:40] need to handle [07:40] we also use [07:41] is there way to detect procedure and use [07:41] froud: How are we automagically going to know if it's a screenshot or not? [07:42] :-) that's the million $ question [07:42] 90% of time is screenshot [07:42] so better to mark as screenshot and let us manually handle the 10% error [07:43] sorry I am just giving ideas [07:44] there is no way to do this 100%, but we can reach an optimum compromise [07:44] Ok, so I'll use screenshot instead. [07:45] screenshot wraps [07:45] Or is it the other way [07:45] holf [07:45] hold [07:45] froud: No, 640x480x256 [07:46] no graphic [07:46] it wll be depreciated [07:46] Ok, yes, then screenshot wraps mediaobject [07:47] froud: Would you mind writing me an email about the changes you want to see (preferably with priorities) and some info about getting svn access (who to mail, with what info etc)? [07:47] sure [07:48] her ei sthe screen shot [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] [07:48] froud: I'll try to do some changes. Feel free to implement them your self if you want though. [07:48] sure, but I am just learning python, started this weekend [07:49] OK will mail you [07:49] svn up so you will get the two changes I just made [07:52] oop [07:54] svn commit -m * fix doctype decl to be both 4.3 xml_docbook.py --non-interactive === mvirkkil [~mvirkkil@vipunen.hut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === venda [~sean@ndn-165-138-57.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-201-206.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:46] mvirkkil: are you there? [09:52] jeffsch: Yes. [09:53] jeffsch: The server my screen is on got rebooted for the first time in 6 months. [09:53] I saw your moin to docbook. nice [09:54] jeffsch: Hope it'll be useful. You should also thank Henrik Nielsen Omma who suggested that I do it. [09:54] I have a question though... [09:55] jeffsch: Shoot. [09:55] would it be easier for the script to convert the html produced by the wiki engine into docbook? [09:55] jeffsch: No [09:55] jeffsch: :) [09:55] why? [09:56] jeffsch: The parser calls the formatters methods, and the formatter outputs something. We can output html or docbook. [09:56] If we output html and then convert that to docbook, we have less control, and if the html changes our scripts might break. [09:57] That would however fix the problems with the macros, but it wouldn't be the 'right thing' since in the long run it would just cause more pain and more invalid markup. [09:57] i was thinking for the python to grab the html from http://whatever, then use html2docbook [09:57] ok. so it's easier to convert the moin directly then. [09:58] hello jeffsch [09:58] hey froud look-like [09:58] what's the status of style guide? [09:59] on track as per schedule. I'll be putting the first bits into svn on or around June 1 [09:59] OK, I thought it was already in svn [09:59] :-) [10:00] I have not looked in the folder [10:00] no, that's just the plan. [10:00] OK, better to get in sooner than later [10:00] we need review and it would be better to have transparency [10:01] jeffsch: what else are you currently working on? [10:01] only style guide. My time is limited all of a sudden. I only have 8 hours or so per week now :( [10:02] OK, that's fine [10:02] do you think your schedule will improve during 5.10 devel? [10:03] It might improve in July and August. In Sept I'm back at school full-time [10:03] OK that's good to know, what type of commitment can you give in these months? [10:04] I can't say for sure, I will know better at the end of June [10:04] OK cool [10:05] I am just trying to plan our devel for 5.10 [10:05] always good to know who can give resource [10:05] k31th: ping [10:06] mpt: ping [10:07] at present we have three people comiting often [10:07] I am not sure that this is enough for us to reach all our targets [10:08] jeffsch: I will increase my commits, but I need support in the editing. Much of the stuff I will be doing at light speed [10:09] I am bound to make mistakes in this mode [10:09] perhaps July August you can do editing? [10:09] no problem [10:09] could be wide spread across docs [10:10] main targets we have are: [10:10] update Ubuntu Quick guide [10:10] release Kubuntu Kwick Guide [10:10] release Ubuntu User Manual [10:10] release Ubuntu / Kubuntu Installation Guide [10:11] release Official version of Ubuntu FAQ Guide [10:11] release Official version of Kubuntu FAQ Guide [10:11] Release Notes [10:11] I think that covers it [10:12] Supporting this I need to release HTML-based help system [10:13] = normalize computer dictionary and integrate it to our build [10:13] * maybe impliment olinks [10:13] We may need to get artwork for the HTML Help system [10:14] that's it :-) no pressure [10:15] pressure? what's that? :) [10:15] I saw your computer dictionary. You are using forrest? [10:15] that's when sleep deprevation sets in and we all get ratty with each other :-) [10:16] At lease we now have i18n sorted [10:17] we should also have nightly builds uploaded on docteam.ubuntu.com [10:17] this will help us and other in the community to get visability into the work we are doing in svn [10:17] hopefully hendrik can arrange this [10:17] yes. and it will alsow help to encourage participation [10:18] at 5.10 release the help system will be moved to help.ubuntu.com [10:18] yes [10:18] and feedback [10:18] I think mvirkkils' script and your xsl's will be used in this process [10:19] I hope trickie can come back and do Release Notes [10:20] yes. hopefully we will only need to do 10 or 20 percent manual stuff === venda reminds himself to contact trickie [10:21] I wonder if we contact people like plovs, they may have time [10:21] you can stress devel to get release notes [10:21] maybe [10:21] I am just trolling the list for candidates [10:21] thats part of their job description imo [10:21] you trust devel to write clear notes? :-) [10:21] we can clear it up [10:22] perhaps we can talk to mdz === mdke nods [10:22] i have to run now. laundry. cya. [10:22] where is corey [10:22] c ya === jeffsch is now known as jeff-away [10:24] mdke: r you ok with the targets I listed above? [10:26] you bet [10:26] after your exams, how will your schedule go during 5.10 [10:26] not sure yet [10:27]