[01:12] <nufan> Anyone active?
[01:12] <carthik> nufan, just ask :)
[01:12] <carthik> I may know the answer, though highly unlikely
[01:12] <nufan> It's to do with helpng out with LaptopTestingHardware on the wiki
[01:13] <carthik> nufan, it might be a good idea to ask the entire question in one go :)
[01:14] <nufan> I have an iBook and would like to help out, butu I'm not sure if I am 'allowed' to edit the wiki page
[01:14] <carthik> nufan, you are
[01:15] <nufan> OK
[01:15] <nufan> That's good :P
[01:15] <nufan> Thank you
[01:19] <mdke> *laughs*
[01:19] <mdke> have cut a few things off the FrontPage
[01:19] <mdke> put them in second level pages
[02:24] <mkde> http://nat.org/demos/monodoc.html
[02:24] <mkde> how cool is that
[04:45] <mpt> carthik! Fancy seeing you here
[06:52] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia 
[06:52] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:09] <mpt> hi Burgundavia
[07:10] <Burgundavia> salut mpt
[07:43] <venda> African Greetings
[07:43] <Burgundavia> salut venda
[07:45] <jsgotangco> hello
[07:45] <venda> hello chaps
[07:47] <venda> anyone got time to test that mono help viewer matthew spoke about
[07:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:49] <jsgotangco> we and Burgundavia talked about it before
[07:49] <jsgotangco> its an api doc app
[07:49] <jsgotangco> (not sure if its extensible at the moment(
[07:56] <venda> hmm, if the src is there and its mono, then it must be
[07:56] <venda> that beagle thing is cool
[07:56] <venda> I wonder if it can be embeded
[07:58] <venda> Burgundavia: you've played with it, what do you think?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> another doc viewer
[07:58] <Burgundavia> nothing special, to be honest
[07:59] <venda> is it lighter than a browser and yelp/khelpcenter
[07:59] <Burgundavia> hmm, didn't really check
[07:59] <Burgundavia> might be
[07:59] <Burgundavia> but it also probably does less
[07:59] <venda> yes, tradeoff
[08:00] <venda> but if it is faster, then then our help app can do the main functions
[08:01] <venda> well just an idea
[08:03] <jsgotangco> its quite fast compared to yelp
[08:19] <venda> guys I am thinking to use the MS HTML Format for help, just not to compile it into CHM
[08:19] <venda> see here for information http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/HtmlHelp.html#HHTOCs
[08:19] <venda> Instead of compiling it, we will use a frameset
[08:20] <venda> this will give us all the features of MS help, with the ability to run on the web or under any browser
[08:20] <venda> of ocurse we will not have to encode the docs for windows, we remain at UTF-8
[08:21] <venda> thoughts?
[08:23] <Burgundavia> hmm, I have no idea, so I will not comment either way
[08:23] <jsgotangco> it would be easier for sure though
[08:23] <venda> yes, it is also close to what many of the windows users who try ubuntu are accustomed to
[08:24] <venda> remember what mpt was saying
[08:24] <venda> I think the compromise is to use the technical structure, but remain flexible to customization
[08:25] <venda> but we will not be supporting features like the ms help buttons
[08:25] <venda> those are up to the individual help viewer
[08:26] <venda> if for example somebody develops a help viewer they can always enable the help buttons in their app
[08:26] <mpt> What's an "ms help button"?
[08:27] <venda> I started learning python last week, I hope to be able to write a help viewer for us
[08:27] <venda> mpt: on ms help there are several buttons that can be enabled/disabled on the ms help viewer
[08:27] <venda> mostly for navigation etc
[08:28] <venda> Hide/Show	htmlhelp.button.hideshow
[08:28] <venda> Back	htmlhelp.button.back
[08:28] <venda> Forward	htmlhelp.button.forward
[08:28] <mpt> venda: (1) Will it have a search function?
[08:28] <venda> Stop	htmlhelp.button.stop
[08:28] <venda> Refresh	htmlhelp.button.refresh
[08:28] <mpt> venda: (2) Will it be faster to launch than yelp?
[08:28] <venda> Home	htmlhelp.button.home
[08:28] <venda> Options	htmlhelp.button.options
[08:28] <venda> Print	htmlhelp.button.print
[08:28] <venda> Locate	htmlhelp.button.locate
[08:28] <venda> Next	htmlhelp.button.next
[08:28] <venda> Previous	htmlhelp.button.previous
[08:28] <venda> Zoom	htmlhelp.button.zoom
[08:28] <venda> Yes search will be embeded into our html
[08:29] <mpt> venda: I'm talking about the help viewer
[08:29] <mpt> (hence my comparison to yelp)
[08:29] <mpt> not about the HTML
[08:29] <venda> I want any app capable of rendering html to be available for use
[08:30] <venda> so how fast is dependant on what app is used
[08:30] <venda> hence Iwas interested in the monodoc we spoke about earlier
[08:30] <mpt> venda: I'm responding to this: <venda> I started learning python last week, I hope to be able to write a help viewer for us
[08:30] <venda> Oh
[08:30] <venda> I will design it to be fast
[08:31] <venda> it is a major consideration
[08:31] <jsgotangco> you can extend it to wxpython or something similar
[08:32] <mpt> venda: So writing a new help viewer from scratch will be quicker than implementing search in yelp and making yelp fast?
[08:32] <venda> I will post a spec and interface design, I would like it to be a community project
[08:32] <venda> mpt: no
[08:32] <venda> but yelp etc can still read HTML very well
[08:32] <mpt> So why not do the latter?
[08:33] <venda> the idea of doing a new viewer is to be able to tailor faster
[08:33] <mpt> Tailor what to what faster?
[08:33] <venda> If we want our own this thingy or that
[08:33] <venda> also we can design new concepts
[08:34] <mpt> Thingy? Concepts?
[08:34] <venda> you said, Linux help sucks and so does windows, we can try some new ideas
[08:34] <venda> perhaps you can help us with your toughts there
[08:34] <mpt> Well I have in my head exactly what I'd like a help viewer should look like, and it's not very different from yelp
[08:35] <venda> nobody is happy with the tools available
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mpt, you have a mockup or something?
[08:35] <mpt> should --> to
[08:35] <venda> But help must load lots of baggage
[08:35] <mpt> jsgotangco: No, only in my head at the moment :-)
[08:35] <venda> yes, the diff is not large, but making your own you can do things that yelp team wont want to do
[08:36] <venda> mpt can you sketch the interface
[08:36] <venda> I have the following requirements:
[08:37] <venda> faster
[08:37] <venda> simpler
[08:37] <venda> better
[08:37] <venda> that's it
[08:37] <mpt> And you think the yelp team don't want any of those things? :-)
[08:37] <venda> they carry to much baggage
[08:37] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:37] <venda> many of things we would want, they dont want
[08:38] <venda> and they would have to re-engineer yelp
[08:38] <mpt> Such as?
[08:38] <venda> for example I do not plan reading anything except html help
[08:38] <venda> yelp loads stuff for many formats
[08:39] <mpt> So what about all those apps that currently have their help written in DocBook?
[08:39] <venda> however, I do plan enabling others to include modules for other formats
[08:39] <mpt> And what about man pages?
[08:39] <venda> Docbook transforms to HTML
[08:39] <venda> yelp tries to read it and tranform it to html
[08:39] <mpt> Yes, but who's going to do that for a third-party app?
[08:39] <jsgotangco> similar to what khelp does?
[08:39] <venda> that is up to the community
[08:40] <venda> I will take a kpart type of approach to it
[08:40] <mpt> If Ubuntu uses this VendaHelp and everyone else uses yelp, and some third-party app supplies its help in DocBook, where does the conversion happen?
[08:40] <venda> AT present all GNOME stuff is in Yelp
[08:40] <venda> I am focused on ubuntu-docs
[08:41] <venda> we do not package xml in ubuntu
[08:41] <venda> we package html
[08:41] <mpt> If some *third-party* app (i.e. not part of Gnome) supplies its help in DocBook, where does the conversion happen?
[08:41] <venda> but uses can do apt-get install ubuntu-docs-src
[08:41] <jsgotangco> (i always thought we packaged in xml)
[08:41] <venda> jsgotangco: at present yes
[08:42] <venda> mpt: they will transform to html when they build their apps
[08:42] <venda> xml is not for presentation layer
[08:42] <mpt> So are there no third-party apps that currently provide their help in DocBook format?
[08:43] <mpt> I thought yelp did the conversion on-the-fly
[08:43] <venda> part of the reason help opens so slow is that it is trying to transformations from xml to html
[08:43] <mpt> Could that be solved by making the home page HTML instead?
[08:43] <venda> In kde the help is html
[08:43] <jsgotangco> yelp relies on scrollkeeper to catalog what xml is included
[08:43] <venda> it is only gnome that tries the fly approach
[08:43] <mpt> jsgotangco: And I *wish* I could figure out how :-)
[08:44] <venda> mpt: yes home page for ubuntu-docs is html easy to custom
[08:44] <mpt> I'd like to edit the help, but no-one can tell me how to do it
[08:44] <mpt> except saying "it's not easy"
[08:44] <venda> mpt: exactly
[08:44] <mpt> which I've been told several times already :-P
[08:44] <venda> I want it more open and custom
[08:45] <venda> for example the the formatting an dlayout in yelp is stunnted by yelp
[08:45] <venda> mpt: with this system you can do what you like
[08:45] <mpt> I think stunted formatting is good
[08:45] <venda> nah
[08:45] <venda> you need freedom and control
[08:46] <venda> for example
[08:46] <mpt> No, really, you don't
[08:46] <venda> I would like to have a pick list of related topic and task on the right
[08:46] <venda> in yelp that is not possible
[08:46] <mpt> Even in the Apple Help viewer when it only supported HTML 3.2, instead of using the standard help font, third-party apps often used whatever font the author of the app looked cool
[08:46] <mpt> It was a PITA
[08:46] <venda> in yelp I cant even change the color of headings
[08:47] <mpt> That's a feature
[08:47] <venda> well we do our stuff using the same style
[08:47] <venda> what other do in up to them
[08:47] <venda> our focus is smaller that other tools
[08:47] <mpt> which is exactly the problem
[08:48] <venda> we just want an easy to use faster tool for our stuff
[08:48] <venda> others can use it if they want
[08:49] <venda> btw the help system should also be accessible on a web site
[08:49] <venda> not the help viewer
[08:49] <venda> just the content
[08:50] <venda> I do not envision everyone using this viewer
[08:50] <venda> and do not exclude the ability to use yelp or khelpcenter to view the ubuntu-docs
[08:51] <venda> the content of the help system must be portable across apps
[08:51] <venda> the idea is just to be able to improve what we can do for ubuntu
[08:52] <venda> the same way gome and kde worry only about what they can do for their projects
[08:52] <venda> if others want to use it, then they should be free to do so
[08:53] <mpt> XHTML Basic with no style sheets would be a reasonable language for help
[08:53] <venda> mpt: for you a major immediate plus is that you will be able to rapidly custom the home page and anything else
[08:53] <venda> yes and no
[08:54] <venda> html + css is more flexible
[08:54] <venda> faster too
[08:54] <venda> but technically you are right'
[08:54] <mpt> venda: This is where we disagree. I think that in help, flexibility is not a good thing.
[08:55] <venda> well take yourself as an example
[08:55] <venda> you are frustrated by yelp/scrollkeeper
[08:55] <mpt> All help pages, no whether they come from Gnome or KDE or Adobe, should use the same fonts, the same colors, the same margins, the same padding.
[08:55] <venda> in an ideal world
[08:55] <mpt> Authors shouldn't be able to muck around with the formatting.
[08:55] <venda> yes
[08:56] <venda> mpt: start small
[08:56] <mpt> Because if they can, they will.
[08:56] <venda> in docbook they see no formatting
[08:56] <venda> the xsl transformation takes care of that
[08:56] <mpt> good
[08:56] <venda> but I want to stay topical for now
[08:56] <venda> I dont want to change the world
[08:57] <venda> Shaum tried that and he had huge problems
[08:57] <mpt> Who's Shaum?
[08:57] <venda> Sorry Shaun M from GNOME
[08:57] <Burgundavia> shaun
[08:58] <venda> If all ubuntu-docs look the same and we have control over the look and feel, I am a happy camper
[08:58] <jsgotangco> how about the other docs?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> (from scrollkeeper)
[08:58] <venda> if others want to adopt it, they're welcome
[08:58] <venda> jsgotangco: use yelp
[08:58] <mpt> er
[08:59] <mpt> venda: So Ubuntu should have *two* help viewers?
[08:59] <venda> we will still register with srollkeeper for compatability reasons
[08:59] <venda> gnome has one and so do we
[08:59] <venda> at first
[08:59] <mpt> "gnome"? What's this "gnome"?</aunttillie>
[09:00] <venda> as and when people create plugins other things can be done
[09:00] <venda> other formats suppoerted
[09:00] <venda> like man
[09:00] <jsgotangco> (i dont like the concept of 2 help viewers)
[09:00] <venda> but I dont want to go there for now, just leave it open to possability
[09:00] <mpt> Well
[09:00] <jsgotangco> (you support 2 apps as well)
[09:01] <venda> jsgotangco: your web browser is ff yes
[09:01] <mpt> venda: I'm not the world's expert on how jdub and mdz and co. think, but I find it difficult to imagine them putting multiple help viewers into Ubuntu when they have the choice not to.
[09:01] <venda> please click help
[09:02] <venda> mpt there must be about six of them installed today
[09:02] <venda> just look at the firefox help, opera help, OOo help
[09:02] <mpt> venda: Yes, but that's not through choice, that's through upstreams being silly.
[09:02] <venda> etc
[09:02] <venda> no upstreams not silly
[09:02] <venda> they just want control not given by yelp
[09:02] <mpt> And they don't have the choice
[09:03] <venda> there is a tradeoff alwasy
[09:03] <mpt> because they don't have the time to spend on putting the Firefox and OOo help into yelp.
[09:03] <venda> not true
[09:03] <venda> there help is xml
[09:04] <venda> and they just need to install it
[09:04] <venda> yelp will do the rest
[09:04] <venda> Hmm, maybe we can just us ethe ff helpviewer
[09:04] <mpt> it's crack
[09:04] <venda> it is more or less what I had inmind
[09:04] <mpt> Opera isn't in main
[09:05] <venda> mpt: crack = good :-)
[09:05] <mpt> It's a classic case of programmers overestimating how much people care about a particular window
[09:05] <venda> so is it good or bad
[09:05] <mpt> It's far too large, and too complex, and oh yes, let's have a Customize Toolbar dialog! For a help viewer!
[09:06] <mpt> Because I want to spend time deciding which buttons should appear in a HELP WINDOW
[09:06] <venda> we can dumb it down
[09:06] <venda> mpt is there any winning with you?
[09:07] <mpt> Sure, add search to yelp and I'll be your fan for life ;-)
[09:07] <venda> but you say yelp is too slow
[09:07] <venda> so what do you want
[09:07] <mpt> Yes, but that's slightly less of a problem than it not having search
[09:07] <venda> so why put so much focus on the slow issue earlier
[09:07] <mpt> Or, MUCH easier, give me step-by-step instructions on how to change yelp's front page
[09:08] <venda> can't
[09:09] <mpt> I wasn't focusing on the slow issue in particular, I just had to ask it a few times because you thought I was talking about something else
[09:09] <venda> take your pic custom or no custom, fast or slow
[09:09] <venda> everything has some trade-off
[09:09] <mpt> sure
[09:10] <venda> ok must go now. take care
[09:15] <jsgotangco> gyahh
[09:16] <mpt> That was a boil-the-ocean strategy
[09:55] <mdke> morning
[09:57] <mdke> whats all this crying?
[09:57] <mpt> mdke: Oh, um, Sean wants to write a help viewer from scratch, to be used *alongside* yelp
[09:58] <mdke> well get to it
[09:58] <mdke> :p
[09:59] <mdke> mpt, what do you favour?
[09:59] <mdke> are there any minimal browsers that might work?
[09:59] <mpt> Any help viewer would have to display help in the formats that it is currently supplied in
[10:00] <mdke> mpt, you mean the gnome docs?
[10:00] <mpt> which includes DocBook and man pages, neither of which Sean's would read
[10:00] <mdke> right
[10:00] <mpt> I'm talking about all the help shipped with Ubuntu
[10:00] <mdke> i guess the problem is finding a solution for both ubuntu and kubuntu
[10:00] <mdke> given that kubuntu doesn't use yelp
[10:01] <mpt> What I favour is decreasing the number of help viewers
[10:01] <mpt> Preferably to the one help viewer that sucks the least
[10:01] <jsgotangco> same here
[10:01] <mdke> yes of course thats a good idea
[10:01] <mdke> and what sucks the least?
[10:01] <jsgotangco> kubuntu uses khtml alredy
[10:01] <mdke> for man pages too?
[10:02] <mpt> then getting Gimp to use it, then getting Firefox to use it, then getting OpenOffice to use it
[10:02] <jsgotangco> yep
[10:02] <mpt> (I'm assuminug that's in ascending order of difficulty)
[10:02] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper even
[10:02] <jsgotangco> but its a mess
[10:02] <mdke> i love the idea of OOo
[10:02] <mdke> a 30 second startup for getting help ;)
[10:03] <jsgotangco> monodoc is faster
[10:03] <mdke> would it work for all docs, in kubuntu and ubuntu?
[10:03] <mpt> I have no idea
[10:03] <jsgotangco> i dont think it was designed as a general help viewer
[10:03] <jsgotangco> just for mono at the moment
[10:03] <mdke> i guess it will be difficult to move away from yelp given that gnome uses it
[10:04] <jsgotangco> yelp isnt so bad it just needs some love
[10:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:04] <mdke> but the faqguide as sean has converted it is already unusable in yelp
[10:04] <mdke> and that will probably be the most used doc for breezy if it goes in
[10:05] <mpt> woohoo
[10:05] <mdke> quite
[10:05] <mpt> Who came up with the name "faq guide" anyway?
[10:05] <mdke> mpt, no idea
[10:05] <jsgotangco> no idea
[10:05] <mpt> You know
[10:05] <jsgotangco> must be the first authors
[10:05] <jsgotangco> (sean, enrico, et al)
[10:05] <mpt> I should bind my hands today so I can't type
[10:05] <mdke> we can change the name fairly easily, thats not the big deal
[10:05] <mpt> coz I'm cranky
[10:06] <mdke> mpt, time of the month huh
[10:06] <mpt> And when I'm cranky, BAD CRAP happens
[10:06] <mpt> moo
[10:06] <mdke> jsgotangco, you are so addicted to that stuff
[10:06] <jsgotangco> yeah tea rules
[10:06] <mdke> just inject the caffeine directly
[10:06] <mdke> (does green tea have caffeine?)
[10:07] <jsgotangco> LOADS
[10:07] <jsgotangco> higher than coffee
[10:07] <mdke> in italian they call it teaine ;)
[10:07] <mdke> given that coffee is "caffe"
[10:07] <mdke> they figured that caffeine comes from the word coffee
[10:07] <jsgotangco> we even have tofu drinks here
[10:07] <mdke> ugh
[10:08] <jsgotangco> its delicious
[10:08] <jsgotangco> tea + tofu = awesome
[10:08] <mdke> ugh
[10:09] <jsgotangco> i dont blame you
[10:09] <mdke> the good thing about using html for the docs would be that they could be published online/offline in the same way
[10:09] <mdke> if you think about it, having ubuntu docs and then gnome/kde docs in a different help viewer isn't the end of the world
[10:09] <mdke> mpt, i remember that you were saying that the books should be published as pdf
[10:09] <mpt> yup
[10:10] <jsgotangco> ugghh no one reads in pdf
[10:10] <mdke> i do
[10:10] <mpt> for print use
[10:10] <mdke> i use pdf for whatever I write
[10:10] <jsgotangco> for print no problem
[10:10] <mpt> because the books aren't suitable for on-screen reading
[10:10] <mdke> mpt, so all the Ubuntu docs are books atm
[10:10] <mpt> no matter *what* medium they're in
[10:10] <mpt> Yes
[10:10] <jsgotangco> id consider them as books too
[10:10] <mpt> Well observed :-)
[10:10] <jsgotangco> (the way they are formatted)
[10:10] <mpt> and the way they're written
[10:11] <mdke> sure
[10:11] <mdke> except maybe the faqguide
[10:11] <mdke> which will shortly be renamed
[10:11] <mdke> ;)
[10:11] <mpt> Currently we have plenty of reference material, but none of what I'd categorize as onscreen help.
[10:12] <mdke> for breezy we should also have some howtos from the wiki
[10:16] <jsgotangco> well i gotta go
[10:16] <jsgotangco> i have a diner to attend
[10:16] <jsgotangco> laterz
[10:16] <mdke> those vnc2swf videos are pretty cool
[10:16] <mdke> have fun jsgotangco 
[10:17] <jsgotangco> i just installed 2 ubuntu servrs today
[10:17] <jsgotangco> man ubuntu as a server is awesome
[10:17] <mdke> thats cool
[10:17] <mdke> i will try breezy this weekend
[10:17] <jsgotangco> id rather not yet when x is borked
[10:17] <mdke> jsgotangco, did you see LaptopTestingTeam btw?
[10:17] <jsgotangco> not yet
[10:17] <mdke> i think its fixed now
[10:17] <jsgotangco> what's that about
[10:18] <mdke> jsgotangco, check it out
[10:18] <jsgotangco> wiki?
[10:18] <mdke> yes
[10:18] <mdke> free laptops for testing breezy
[10:18] <jsgotangco> yeah i know that
[10:18] <jsgotangco> we discussed that in UDU
[10:18] <mdke> well put your name down
[10:19] <jsgotangco> sabdfl was willing to invest
[10:19] <mdke> that guy is a genius
[10:19] <mdke> its a brilliant idea
[10:19] <mdke> ubuntu is gonna rock laptops
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:19] <jsgotangco> that list is already long
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:19] <mdke> lots of people on the list haven't done any work
[10:19] <mdke> you have
[10:19] <jsgotangco> i know
[10:20] <jsgotangco> if you check the udu laptop wiki me and ogra are listed
[10:20] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:20] <mdke> well there ya go
[10:20] <mdke> get your name down
[10:20] <jsgotangco> ill put mine beside you hehe (cheater)
[10:20] <mdke> k
[10:21] <mdke> a guy in #ubuntu-it said breezy was real fast
[10:21] <mdke> thats why i'm gonna try it
[10:21] <mdke> that, and the fact that I have time on my hands
[10:21] <mdke> my course finishes friday
[10:21] <jsgotangco> hmm wonder why dholbach didnt list himself
[10:21] <jsgotangco> or even ajmitch
[10:22] <mdke> guess they have flair laptops already
[10:22] <jsgotangco> nahhh you should see ajmitch's laptop
[10:22] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:22] <mdke> hmm
[10:22] <jsgotangco> or worse, even mako's
[10:22] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:22] <mdke> no way?
[10:22] <mdke> he has a p1 166 mmx?
[10:22] <jsgotangco> well a P2
[10:22] <mdke> my gf has one of those
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i still have a p3 laptop
[10:23] <jsgotangco> well i gotta go my wife is gonna kill me if im late
[10:23] <mdke> ok have fun
[10:23] <jsgotangco> listed myself already
[10:23] <mdke> cool
[10:24] <mdke> dholbach is third on the list btw
[10:24] <jsgotangco> mjg59 is doing swell work on laptops
[10:24] <jsgotangco> later
[10:24] <mdke> bye
[01:17] <Kinnison> Hola
[08:26] <venda> Burgundavia: bounties for docs that's a first :-)
[08:29] <venda> Burgundavia: I wonder if they will accept my Lenya solution?
[08:31] <Burgundavia> they might
[08:34] <venda> Hmmm, I wonder ...
[08:43] <abelli> Kinnison: ding dong dang
[09:03] <Kinnison> abelli: hi
[09:17] <mkde> evening
[09:17] <venda> elo
[09:18] <Burgundavia> venda, someone has posting something to the gnome list as well
[09:18] <venda> yes, dorvak or something like that
[09:19] <mkde> venda, any reply on the ubuntuguide?
[09:20] <abelli> venda, domo arigato.
[09:22] <_venda> ouch that hurt
[09:22] <abelli> _venda: re-"domo arigato".
[09:23] <_venda> hello abelli
[09:23] <mkde> venda, any reply on the ubuntuguide?
[09:24] <venda> mdke: no
[09:26] <venda> gotta love wget
[09:26] <venda> download a whole web site in minutes
[09:27] <carthik> venda, and mp3s, in some cases :)
[09:27] <carthik> I love netjuke users, who allow downloads, but I am evil.
[09:31] <venda> 590 files in 2.07 secs
[09:56] <venda> good night ppl
[10:04] <abelli> ciao a tutti
[10:04] <abelli> buona notte
[11:48] <mdke> Kinnison, is your dad called norman?
[11:48] <Kinnison> Hep
[11:48] <Kinnison> Y
[11:48] <mdke> awesome
[11:48] <mdke> he posted to the ubuntu-uk list this evening
[11:48] <mdke> i need to convert my parents
[11:51] <Kinnison> Cool