[01:14] <jbailey> Anyone know if there
[01:15] <jbailey> 's a sane way to get the driver information for the SCSI or IDE layer from sysfs?  I seem to get as far as finding out that the [sh] da wasn't ide-disk or sd, and not any further.
[01:15] <jbailey> Oh, and joy.  It calls it 'sd' instead of 'sd_mod'
[01:26] <zul>  /sys/block
[01:27] <jbailey> zul: /sys/block/sda/device/driver just points to sd.
[01:28] <zul> is this that scsi card bug that i cced you about?
[01:28] <jbailey> Nope.  Did you cc: me on something?
[01:28] <jbailey> It's initramfs autodetection without using /proc/scsi
[01:29] <jbailey> I don't see an email from you...
[01:29] <zul> i cced you from bugzilla
[01:30] <jbailey> Ah, lemme check that folder.
[01:30] <zul> there is  a program called lsscsi which works with sysfs
[01:30] <zul> http://sg.torque.net/scsi/lsscsi.html
[01:30] <jbailey> Oo, appears to be in breezy.
[01:32] <zul> have you tried /sys/host/channel/id/lun or something like that
[01:35] <jbailey> I haven't gone that need.  I got caught up trying to figure out how to work find. =)
[01:40] <jbailey> Nice, lsscsi will give me the info.
[01:41] <jbailey> So maybe I can use sysfsutils to figure it out rather than diving through symlinks.
[01:49] <zul> there is a library sysfs as well
[02:03] <jbailey> zul: Yeah, I might have to resort to that, but Id' rather not.  It's all done in shell so far.
[02:03] <jbailey> zul: The idea is that I want to use hotplug-ng in the initramfs, but it would be nice to continue to support some sort of hard autodetection.
[02:04] <jbailey> It think I've figured it out for scsi, but it looks like the IDE layer might suck too much.
[03:45] <mark_> hi, is this a good place to ask how i can gather more data to add to a bug i submitted a while ago
[03:46] <mark_> things like crash reports etc. its a problem with a sound module.
[05:04] <zul> heh...someone is "forking" the kernel lol good luck
[06:21] <fabbione> morning
[06:33] <dilinger> ugh, yes it is :/
[07:48] <TheMuso> .cl
[07:48] <TheMuso> argh
[01:29] <zul> hey
[01:33] <fabbione> hey zul
[01:35] <zul> hey fabbione 
[01:47] <zul> what time is the meeting today?
[01:48] <chmj> 16:00, I think 
[01:48] <fabbione> 16:00 UTC
[01:50] <zul> coolio
[02:52] <infinity> There's a kernel meeting today?
[02:53] <jbailey> infinity: Are you in the same timezone as Sydney?
[02:53] <jbailey> infinity: 'cause we know you love 2am meetings. =)
[02:53] <fabbione> infinity: yes at 16:00 UTC
[02:54] <infinity> Yeah, I'm in the same TZ as Sydney.
[02:54] <infinity> You're all cocks.
[02:54] <infinity> The end.
[02:54] <infinity> (I was going to stay up anyway, to attent the backports meeting)
[02:54] <infinity> s/attent/attend/
[02:55] <jbailey> infinity: We need to get grrlz on the Kernel Team just so you can't say that anymore. =)
[02:55] <infinity> Because it's politically incorrect, or factually so?
[02:55] <fabbione> ahaha
[02:55] <infinity> I'm pretty sure that when used as a derogatory term, "cock" can apply to just about anyone, regardless of their genital trappings.
[02:56] <fabbione> at what time is the backports meeting?
[02:57] <lamont> kernel meeting?
[02:57] <lamont> ouch
[02:57] <lamont> 1600 UTC --> I will attend in spirit only, I fear.
[02:58] <fabbione> lamont: i guess you will be at the office...
[02:58] <lamont> and dealing with administrivia, I fully expect.
[02:58] <fabbione> have fun :)
[02:58] <lamont> I'm hoping to really be online sometime after lunch
[02:58] <lamont> yeah
[03:00] <infinity> fabbione : Backports is 1700 UTC.
[03:01] <fabbione> infinity: good.. because the kernel team will not last longer than one hour.. i hope
[03:03] <infinity> Looks like I won't be getting any sleep tonight.  Oh well.
[03:03] <infinity> Gives me time to rebuilt firefox over and over and over again until I finally have something to upload.
[03:15] <fabbione> infinity: you need no sleep :)
[03:27] <infinity> That's what I keep saying, right before I pass out.
[03:33] <chmj> hmmm 
[03:34] <chmj> if i don't have transport, I'm not gonna make it to the meeting also 
[03:42] <fabbione> chmj: uh?
[03:43] <fabbione> chmj: well if you could have told a bit in advance we could have changed the time
[03:44] <chmj> fabbione: I arranged transport with someone, now the guy seems unsure, how dissappointing 
[03:45] <fabbione> chmj: try to convince him again ;)
[03:45] <chmj> I'm trying 
[03:48] <zul> heh they are trying to backport the kernel
[03:49] <chmj> who is 'they' ?
[03:49] <zul> backport people
[03:52] <fabbione> eh?
[03:52] <fabbione> where?
[03:52] <fabbione> lart them!
[03:52] <fabbione> kill them!
[03:52] <zul> gimme a sec...ill dig it up
[03:52] <fabbione> they must not backport the kernel
[03:52] <fabbione> ehhe
[03:52] <zul> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=15913
[03:53] <chmj> shoot them !
[03:54] <fabbione> oh god
[03:54] <zul> *shudder*
[03:54] <zul> so who is suppose to be coming to the backport meeting ;)
[03:54] <fabbione> i am going :)
[03:55] <zul> so am i
[03:55] <fabbione> i need to see what they have in mind
[03:55] <fabbione> and kindly ask not to backport the kernel :)
[03:55] <fabbione> because they do not know what they are doing
[03:55] <zul> ya think?
[03:59] <fabbione> no.. i am sure
[03:59] <zul> ok good...just making sure :)
[04:01] <chmj> lol 
[04:05] <chmj> let them do it, its gonna be fun to watch 
[04:06] <chmj> unless you worried about them pinging you aboutit 
[04:06] <infinity> I'd be worried about bug reports relating to it.
[04:06] <fabbione> at the first pint i will make the kernel unportable
[04:06] <infinity> I already have some bug reports with text like "I haven't changed anything except to upgrade to some random backported packages..."
[04:07] <zul> see thats why users are bad
[04:07] <chmj> aren't customers always right ?
[04:07] <chmj> :-P 
[04:08] <zul> no i learned that the hard way when i was doing a customer service test for an interview
[04:09] <infinity> I just love how people will add any random repository to their sources.list until stuff appears to finally work.
[04:09] <zul> its the only way :)
[04:10] <infinity> "Yeah, just add potato, woody, sarge, warty, hoary, and these 5 sources from apt-get.org, and you'll get most of the packages you need... Oh, and download this .deb and install it by hand"
[04:10] <infinity> Someone hold me.
[04:10] <chmj> hahaha
[04:10] <zul> im not a touchy feely person infinity 
[04:14] <fabbione> infinity: ahhahahahahhaa
[04:14] <fabbione> bug number?
[04:14] <infinity> Oh, no, that was me paraphrasing the forums. :)
[04:15] <fabbione> ahah
[04:15] <infinity> Why find bugs in your backported packages when you can just tell people to install other packages to satisfy your bogus dependencies?  Yay!
[04:15] <infinity> I have a feeling this backports meeting will be frustrating.
[04:15] <infinity> I'll have to hold my tongue.  A lot.
[04:16] <fabbione> do will i
[04:16] <chmj> sound too good to miss 
[04:17] <infinity> Backporting kernel packages is just plain retarded, though.  If users really need new kernels, kernel-package is there for a reason, compile your own and have some control over what you break.  Don't let someone else break it all for you.
[04:17] <infinity> In that thread up there <points>, I love the one user's laundry list of stuff that stopped working after the upgrade.
[04:17] <infinity> (last page of the thread)
[04:17] <jbailey> My favourite is the people who loaded a new glibc and then their system stopped working after the next kernel upgrade.
[04:17] <jbailey> They give me WARM and FUZZIES.
[04:18] <infinity> A new... glibc?
[04:18] <infinity> Doesn't that defeat the purpose of backporting?
[04:18] <jbailey> infinity: Pulled it from breezy by the looks of it, because backports didn't have what they wanted. =(
[04:18] <infinity> Once you backport glibc, you may as well, y'know.. UPGRADE.
[04:18] <fabbione> infinity: you kidding right?
[04:18] <infinity> jbailey : Oh.  I see. :)
[04:18] <infinity> jbailey : Even funnier. :)
[04:18] <fabbione> it's soooooo 31337 to run the latest glibc
[04:18] <jbailey> Erp, apt-get install 'git' isn't quite what I'd hoped it was.
[04:18] <fabbione>  _____ _ _______________ 
[04:18] <fabbione> |___ // |___ /___ /___  |
[04:18] <fabbione>   |_ \| | |_ \ |_ \  / / 
[04:18] <fabbione>  ___) | |___) |__) |/ /  
[04:18] <fabbione> |____/|_|____/____//_/   
[04:18] <fabbione> 
[04:19] <fabbione> jbailey: pkg is cogito
[04:19] <jbailey> fabbione: Thanks.
[04:19] <infinity> Although git is fun too.
[04:19] <fabbione> who needs a wake up text message via irc?
[04:19] <infinity> I'll need a /msg, I'm sure.
[04:21] <fabbione> damn FEENODE
[04:21] <fabbione> no wake up message
[04:21] <fabbione> damn FEENODE
[04:21] <fabbione> no wake up message
[04:21] <fabbione> anyway
[04:21] <fabbione> i am off for a little while before the meeting
[04:22] <chmj> hehe 
[04:22] <chmj> jbailey, never tried git ?
[04:22] <jbailey> chmj: Nope.  I'm trying to get a changelog for klibc, so figured I'd try the other git. =)
[04:23] <dilinger> i need those kick-ass new glibc features, though!
[04:24] <fabbione> dilinger: ehehhe
[04:24] <jbailey> Reminds me that I need to do a glibc upload to fix gdb on ppc.
[04:25] <fabbione> mu4 syst3m runs s0 much f4st3r w1th th15 31337 gl1bc
[04:25] <jbailey> I figured I'd give it some time so that Fabio's machine could catch up with the rest of the archive for a bit. =)
[04:25] <fabbione> jbailey: oh ehehhe
[04:25] <fabbione> sparc is looking good at the moment
[04:26] <fabbione> there are really few pkgs left that still needs manual love
[04:26] <jbailey> fabbione: Cool.  I'll do the gdb fix, the ia64 binutils 2.16 fix, and drop pre-v9 support on sparc in one pass, then.
[04:26] <fabbione> jbailey: works for me
[04:29] <fabbione> jbailey: plus most of the stuff is ccache right now
[04:30] <fabbione> so it will be pretty fast to do that
[04:30] <jbailey> Do far my experiments with ccache don't seem to get a high hit rate on glibc.
[04:30] <fabbione> no, but i get high rates on all the other pkgs :)
[04:30] <fabbione> given that doko doesn't upload gcc :)
[04:30] <jbailey> Right. =)
[04:31] <fabbione> speaking of which.. i will need to increase the cache size
[04:31] <jbailey> Yeah, and gcc's never ccachable.
[04:33] <fabbione> we could make it ccachable ;)
[04:33] <jbailey> Not trivially.
[04:33] <jbailey> You'd have to override each stage so that it used ccache instead of xgcc.
[04:33] <fabbione> actually.. the only reason why gcc needs bootstrapping is because we don't know if the external compiler can build gcc
[04:34] <jbailey> Which would sort of defeat the purpose of the multistage bootstrap. =)
[04:34] <fabbione> right?
[04:34] <jbailey> Well, you also build the compiler with itself, the new version.
[04:34] <jbailey> That way you get any new optimisations and bug fixes, but also a compiler built with itself, and a compiler built from that one should be identical.
[04:34] <jbailey> So you know you're not gradually losing by doing a relatively simply comparison.
[04:35] <fabbione> well perhaps that can be switched to be build option
[04:35] <fabbione> if you know that the changes are at packaging level only
[04:35] <fabbione> you can disable all the bootstrapping torture
[04:35] <fabbione> and use ccache
[04:36] <fabbione> if you change code in the compiler
[04:36] <fabbione> than you do the bootstrapping dance
[04:36] <jbailey> Maybe.  You'd have to make a few promises about assembler version and stuff, too.
[04:36] <fabbione> let's see:
[04:36] <jbailey> But aside from that, yes, just a simple build / no testsuite / etc might be safe.  I'd want to think on that for a month before doing it. =)
[04:37] <chmj> ok, got a cab for later, now I can stay 
[04:37] <fabbione> ehheh
[04:37] <jbailey> chmj: Where are you going?
[04:37] <fabbione> you upload -1 with the full bootstrap build
[04:37] <chmj> from hbd offices to home, late 
[04:37] <jbailey> chmj: Right, I keep forgetting that you have offices there.
[04:37] <fabbione> you realize that file foo should have been in another directory due to errors in debian/whatever.install
[04:38] <fabbione> so you need to upload -2
[04:38] <jbailey> fabbione: doko applies patches on a per-arch basis.
[04:38] <fabbione> but what's the point in enabling the overall if -2 is exactly the same as -1
[04:38] <jbailey> fabbione: So it could even be a per-upload "Screw: " list of arch's.
[04:38] <fabbione> oh crap
[04:39] <fabbione> well i am off to spend a bit of time with my wife
[04:39] <fabbione> later
[04:39] <jbailey> Enjoy. =)
[04:40] <chmj> Enjoy !
[04:45] <jbailey> Heya Tollef
[04:45] <Mithrandir> hiya Jeff
[04:46] <Mithrandir> today's thing which makes me angry: Hardware.  Apart from that: EVMS needs to shrink my 1.8TB volume to fit a measly 256KB (or thereabouts) of metadata at the end.
[05:51] <fabbione> kernel-team meeting will start in 9 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[07:22] <zul> lol..https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10499
[08:29] <zul> gday
[09:20] <zul> kablooie
[09:25] <zul> fabbione: you coming to the meeting?
[09:25] <fabbione> yup :)
[09:25] <fabbione> i am not gonna miss this one :)
[09:27] <fabbione> jbailey: i just hooked up benc on irc :)
[09:27] <fabbione> and bitching him about silo/grub2 ;)
[09:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: what did he say?
[09:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: didn't answer back yet :)
[09:31] <fabbione> oh crap 
[09:31] <fabbione> he had a huge mail loss..
[09:31] <Mithrandir> ew :(
[09:44] <jbailey> fabbione: *lol*
[09:51] <zul> *sigh*
[09:53] <fabbione> ohhh
[09:53] <fabbione> of course!
[09:54] <fabbione> new glibc will stage for a week or two!
[09:54] <fabbione> *shrug*
[09:54] <zul> hehe
[10:00] <zul> hey fabbione i was thinking after debian and ubuntu systems merged how about one big assed meeting between debian and kernel to get to know each other
[10:03] <fabbione> zul: we should probably do that during the merge :)
[10:03] <zul> yeah because i hardly know anyone in the debian side
[10:03] <fabbione> sure
[10:03] <fabbione> they are all pretty nice.. some of them upstream
[10:04] <zul> can they be trusted ;)
[10:05] <fabbione> yes
[10:14] <zul> fuck fuck fuck..
[10:14] <zul> fuckity fuck
[10:15] <jbailey> fabbione: Do you follow lkml?
[10:16] <fabbione> sometimes
[10:16] <jbailey> I'm looking at this for initramfs integration and simplified coldplugging: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/5/12/188
[10:16] <jbailey> Can you offer an opinion on whether this is likely to wind its way into a mainstream kernel?
[10:18] <fabbione> zul: mind to tell mdz wth you saw that kernel?
[10:18] <fabbione> i think it already is....
[10:19] <fabbione> jbailey: let me check
[10:23] <fabbione> jbailey: the patch is alredy in Linus tree
[10:25] <jbailey> Right.
[10:27] <fabbione> it will be either in rc6 or final.. whatever will come first :)
[10:30] <jbailey> I wonder what it will choose the preferred driver when more than one is possible for a device.
[10:30] <jbailey> greg kh's response seems to be to just not building the conflicting driver.
[10:31] <fabbione> what case is that?
[10:32] <jbailey> Like eepro vs. e100, or oss vs. alsa.
[10:32] <dilinger> http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/1/109
[10:35] <fabbione> jbailey: hmm right
[10:35] <fabbione> dilinger: NEAT
[10:37] <jbailey> fabbione: Anyhow, not hard to do an alias map or something like that.
[10:38] <fabbione> i was thinking that we sould actually use 2 criterias
[10:38] <fabbione> one would be to have a module priority
[10:38] <fabbione> and one to use module masks
[10:38] <fabbione> the first would solve the e100/eepro100 problem
[10:38] <fabbione> we prefer e100 (for ex) and we assign priority 1
[10:39] <fabbione> excluding automatically all lower priorities
[10:39] <fabbione> if e100 is banned, than we look for a lower priority
[10:39] <fabbione> the module masks are included in the PCIid table already
[10:39] <fabbione> if we have a perfect match between a module and a device than we load it
[10:40] <fabbione> in there are 2 perfect matches we use the priority
[10:40] <fabbione> if there is a perfect match but it's banned than we look for a larger mask
[10:40] <fabbione> this latter would solve the case for modular IDE
[10:40] <fabbione> where the perfect match is done by the specific driver
[10:41] <fabbione> and the larger match by the generic IDE driver
[10:41] <fabbione> we can use both criterias at the same time
[10:41] <fabbione> because we might want to override the mask with a priority...
[10:41] <fabbione> SCARY
[10:41] <fabbione> I GAVE BIRTH TO A ENDLESS PROBLEM
[10:41] <jbailey> In this case, I don't know how much of that intformation I'll actually have available to me for the decision.
[10:41] <jbailey> It looks like modalias might just contain a single name.
[10:42] <fabbione> jbailey: that needs to be done before the event is sent to userland
[10:42] <fabbione> basically in kernel hotplug it self
[10:43] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[10:43] <jbailey> Oh, hmm.  Or am I confused?  I had assumed that this would contain a module name to feed to modprobe.  Does it just hand in a device id instead?
[11:05] <jbailey> Are you going to promote the current kernel to main or wait until the next one?
[11:07] <jbailey> fabbione: (re: silo)  Greeat, sounds like fun.  Are you willing to do half of the cleanrooming with me?  I have a u5 here now, I just need to plug it in.  (Not for a couple weeks at least)
[11:07] <jbailey> That way I don't have to look at the silo code, I can just ask you questions.
[11:07] <fabbione> jbailey: next one
[11:07] <fabbione> jbailey: if i can understand what you ask and what to look for.. yes
[11:09] <jbailey> Lovely.  I'll try and get my machine plugged in, otherwise it'll be when I'm back from Debconf.
[11:18] <dilinger> wait, benc's online?
[11:18] <fabbione> not here.. not anymore...
[11:19] <dilinger> damn
[11:19] <fabbione> dilinger: mail him :)
[11:20] <fabbione> he did lost a big bunch of emails not too long ago
[11:20] <dilinger> are you kidding?  in the past 2 years, he's emailed me back exactly twice
[11:20] <jbailey> cisco just manages to make their site worse everytime they touch it.
[11:20] <dilinger> and i've sent him and cc'd him on numerous mails
[11:20] <fabbione> that's because you need to know what to tell him and how :)
[11:21] <fabbione> jbailey: they had this look for a while now.. but it sucks
[11:21] <dilinger> jbailey: i'd offer to help you cleanroom silo, as i've been playing around w/ the code and reading up on ieee1275, but i'd rather take care of higher priority stuff..
[11:22] <jbailey> fabbione: Yeah, a year and abit, I think.
[11:22] <fabbione> yeah
[11:22] <fabbione> it still sucks :)
[11:22] <fabbione> dilinger: ok.. i will give you a hint on how to grab benc attention
[11:22] <jbailey> dilinger: The ieee1275 works well enough atm to boot a mac, so I suspect there will just be little quirky things to ask.  
[11:22] <fabbione> first line of the mail has to start like this:
[11:22] <fabbione> Hey GoogGuy,
[11:23] <fabbione> in 99% of the cases you will get an email back
[11:23] <fabbione> meh
[11:23] <fabbione> GoodGuy i mean
[11:23] <fabbione> well it's time to go and crash i can barely type
[11:23] <jbailey> g'n fabio
[11:24] <fabbione> night ladies and gentlemen
[11:24] <jbailey> dilinger: When it comes time, I'll ping you to see if you're still busy ;P