[12:01] <elmo> wasabi: err, does it?
[12:02] <wasabi_> elmo, does it?
[12:02] <elmo> nm
[12:19] <mantiena> Kamion: why hard ? Knoppix, Morphix and other live CD technologies doesn DHCP detection in background, this decreased bootup time in ~5 seconds
[12:20] <Kamion> mantiena: would require some redesign of the first stage
[12:22] <dholbach> i'll be off to bed now
[12:22] <dholbach> good night
[12:43] <Kamion> meh, that would explain why I didn't write a helper to extract partition names
[12:43] <Kamion> it's annoyingly difficult
[01:06] <tseng> doko: ping
[01:06] <tseng> doko: ironpython they said is missing 1 or 2 c# 2.0 functions in mono, upstream says they need someone to file bugs so they can get fixed
[01:06] <lifeless> mdz: nervous ;)
[01:07] <tseng> doko: do you talk to ironpython upstream?
[01:11] <Nafallo> hi JaneW! :-)
[01:40] <uggwar> i just built a set of mono-1.1.7 packages and mono-utils lacks dh_netdeps. am i doing something wrong?
[01:40] <Mez> can anyone help me with using the wiki - /query please
[01:40] <uggwar> i am new to debian packaging...
[01:40] <tseng> uggwar: yes.
[01:40] <tseng> uggwar: its not dh_clideps in cli-common
[01:41] <uggwar> what is the difference between netdeps and clideps?
[01:41] <uggwar> i have dh_clideps
[01:41] <tseng> uggwar: clideps is new and existing
[01:41] <tseng> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CLIPolicy
[01:41] <uggwar> ok, so i should change the source package to use cli-scripts
[01:42] <tseng> yes.
[01:42] <uggwar> thanks alot!
[01:42] <tseng> np
[01:42] <uggwar> i've got work to do!
[01:42] <uggwar> :)
[02:13] <jsgotangco> morning
[02:13] <mantiena> night ;)
[02:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:19] <Amaranth> mako: ping?
[02:29] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: hey hows it going
[02:31] <tseng> hi.
[02:32] <tseng> Unfrgiven: im thinking we should have a piece on merging with debian
[02:32] <tseng> Unfrgiven: maybe in a later chapter
[02:32] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:32] <jsgotangco> wow you done with the doc already?
[02:32] <tseng> Unfrgiven is drafting while i hack on mono bits
[02:32] <jsgotangco> tseng, PackagingSystemDocumentation is all about deb packages?
[02:32] <tseng> its taking longer than expected
[02:32] <tseng> the what now?
[02:35] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hey dude. yeah good idea but ill need help on that topic
[02:35] <Amaranth> does said documentation teach cdbs?
[02:35] <tseng> Unfrgiven: sure
[02:35] <tseng> Amaranth: yes.
[02:35] <Amaranth> w00tage
[02:35] <tseng> well, introduces
[02:35] <tseng> not teaches.
[02:35] <Amaranth> if you make a published book, i'll buy it ;)
[02:35] <tseng> youll have a foundation
[02:35] <tseng> the scope is very limited
[02:36] <Unfrgiven> Amaranth: "Intro" developer docs :)
[02:36] <Amaranth> oh
[02:37] <Unfrgiven> Amaranth: there are plans to have an advanced reference book however that is still a long way away
[02:37] <Nafallo> Unfrgiven: * for Dummies ;-)
[02:37] <tseng> my boss ordered ldap for dummies
[02:37] <Unfrgiven> Nafallo: I'd rather not insult the would be developer :)
[02:37] <tseng> just so he could say on conferences "turn to page 5 in ldap for dummies"
[02:37] <tseng> pretty cool.
[02:37] <Amaranth> Ubuntu Packaging for Dummies - The beginner's guide to working on Ubuntu
[02:38] <Nafallo> s/working on Ubuntu/becoming a MOTU/ ;-)
[02:39] <jsgotangco> just give me a ring when the doc is done and needs to be reviewed and transformed
[02:39] <Amaranth> can't use too many buzzwords on the front cover
[02:40] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: will do... phone number? :P
[02:40] <mdz> elmo: I demoted bugreporter-udeb from main to universe without realizing it was the same version as in hoary
[02:40] <mdz> elmo: as a result, netinstalls seem to be broken
[02:40] <Kamion> mdz: see #canonical
[02:40] <Kamion> 01:32 < Kamion> elmo: I've got a patch to make hilarie understand udebs, if that would be helpful?
[02:40] <Kamion> 01:33 < Kamion> elmo: jackass:~cjwatson/hilarie.patch - works with -n at least, although the pool_component stuff is icky
[02:41] <Kamion> should've been here, sorry
[02:41] <mdz> Kamion: even if I'd seen that, I wouldn't have known it was related to this issue
[02:41] <Kamion> mdz: at the moment, hilarie needs to be run after a session of promotions/demotions to fix up symlinks
[02:41] <mdz> is elmo asleep?  if so, I suppose I should move it back
[02:41] <mdz> unless you have a better workaround
[02:42] <Kamion> he was awake ~20 minutes ago; my patch works but I don't want to just apply stuff to katie without asking
[02:42] <Kamion> (!)
[02:42] <Kamion> mdz: moving it back is fine for now
[02:43] <mdz> Kamion: moving the binary back worked, but source doesn't
[02:43] <Kamion> it causes a slight installer issue on breezy netboots, but that's about it
[02:43] <mdz> E: /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/main/b/bugreporter-udeb/bugreporter-udeb_1.02ubuntu3.dsc (main/bugreporter-udeb - breezy) already exists!
[02:43] <Kamion> bugreporter-udeb | 1.02ubuntu3 |        breezy | all
[02:43] <Kamion> it's already in main
[02:44] <mdz> that's the binary
[02:44] <Kamion> oh
[02:44] <mdz> I suppose I can just leave the source in universe
[02:44] <Kamion> heh, the symlink is in the way I think
[02:56] <Kamion> mdz: meh, pmount/hal's mount point naming policy is a lot more complex than I thought
[02:57] <Kamion> mdz: how much would you object to not attempting to reproduce it, and (to start with), just naming everything after the device name?
[02:57] <Kamion> so /media/sda1 etc. always
[02:57] <Kamion> we can do some kind of defaulting later, but it's looking painful to try to duplicate this
[02:58] <Kamion> and I have not a lot of interest in an XML parser and HAL implementation in the installer ;)
[02:58] <tseng> could you get hal to lookup a mount name given a device?
[02:58] <Kamion> tseng: hal is not available at this time
[02:58] <tseng> oh :(
[02:59] <tseng> that is painful.
[02:59] <Kamion> yes, you could, that's what pmount-hal does
[02:59] <Kamion> but that requires lots of proto-desktop infrastructure
[03:23] <mdz> Kamion: I wouldn't mind delegating the naming policy to pmount
[03:23] <mdz> we don't need to know in advance, really
[03:23] <Kamion> we discussed that in the BOF; see the notes
[03:24] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/MountingHDDFilesystems
[03:24] <Kamion> pitti was not keen on relaxing the "no pmount from filesystems on local hard disks" policy
[03:25] <Kamion> also, the install CD does need to know in advance, because it needs to present the default mount points to the user when they're doing manual partitioning ...
[03:25] <mdz> I don't see the note you're referring to
[03:25] <Kamion> currently configured to ignore hard disk filesystems, due to security concerns; not keen on relaxing that restriction, and any relaxation has to be considered very carefully
[03:25] <mdz> I understand pitti's issue with local hard disks, but if the device is in fstab, this should be a non-issue
[03:26] <Kamion> doesn't the fstab format require a known mount point?
[03:26] <mdz> we could add a 'pmount' mount option or such
[03:26] <mdz> it would be abusing fstab just a bit
[03:26] <mdz> no more than, say, swap already does
[03:26] <Kamion> this seems to be getting out of the realm of the relatively simple approach for which I had hoped
[03:26] <mdz> *shrug* simple is better
[03:26] <Kamion> and suddenly requires patching the world
[03:27] <mdz> I expect it would only require patching pmount
[03:27] <Kamion> I imagine other things that read fstab might care
[03:27] <mdz> but if you have something which works, but doesn't have ideal naming, that's fine with me
[03:27] <mdz> naming is polish
[03:28] <Kamion> I'm more concerned about getting naming right in the install CD than in the live CD, I think
[03:28] <Kamion> since the latter is transient by nature
[03:28] <Kamion> (I can see the appeal of the fstab approach, incidentally; it's rather elegant. I just don't want to block a high-priority goal on that sort of thing :-))
[03:32] <Kamion> mdz: ok, I'll see if I can get something sensible to happen with the default desktop, and then send you a merge
[03:32] <Kamion> mdz: also, I just checked and the live cloop builds seem to be really building against breezy now, so I've re-enabled cron.daily-live on little
[03:33] <Kamion> ... and cron.dvd
[03:33] <Kamion> now all we need is a working kubuntu-desktop and I can turn the rest of them back on
[03:33] <Kamion> night all
[03:34] <mdz> Kamion: night and thanks
[03:40] <jsgotangco> night
[03:54] <jsgotangco> "a cete of badgers"
[03:54] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:55] <geppy> I'm wanting to write some configuration programs for Ubuntu, like those described on the "GraphicalConfigTools" page of the wiki.  Is it required that they be written in Python, or would I be able to write them in C?
[03:55] <crimsun_> writing them in Python will speed their adoption
[03:56] <geppy> But since there's a considerable amount of time left before Breezy comes out, would it really make a difference?  Or would they have to be re-written in Python?
[04:12] <wasabi> thank the stars. I think I'm about to upload Eclipse.
[04:13] <hunger> daniels: xkb is still broken for me:-(
[04:15] <hunger> daniels: Nope, sorry, it is fixed! Just had to reload my shortcuts.
[04:18] <mako> Amaranth: hey there
[04:27] <daniels> Mithrandir: what sort of functionality are you after?
[04:30] <jsgotangco> mako, hey
[04:31] <daniels> haha
[04:38] <gun> hello everybody
[04:41] <mdz> wasabi: !
[04:43] <mako> jsgotangco: hey dude
[04:44] <wasabi> Eclipse sans Help
[04:44] <jsgotangco> mako, got my mail?
[04:48] <mdz> wasabi: looking over the archive/seed syncage, the only problematic bit I see remaining is libant1.6-java -> junit -> kaffe
[04:48] <wasabi> Thought I fixed that ages ago.
[04:48] <mdz> Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>= 4.1), kaffe (>= 1.1.1), jikes (>= 1:1.18-6), fastjar (>= 3.3.2), gjdoc (>= 0.7.2-2)
[04:49] <wasabi> guess not.
[04:49] <mdz> once that's resolved, we should be able to get libant1.6-java into main
[04:49] <wasabi> Yeah i'll knock that out now.
[04:52] <wasabi> The Eclipse I will be uploading will have it's help application disabled.
[04:52] <wasabi> Which is probably fine.
[04:53] <AndyFitz> jsgotangco,  http://www.inspirationline.com/Brainteaser/gaggle.htm     a troop of monkeys ,  a pandemonium of parrots     a rhumba of rattlesnakes 
[04:54] <AndyFitz> my favorite will always be a business of ferrets
[04:54] <mdz> wasabi: will it be compiled or interpreted?
[04:54] <wasabi> Compiled.
[04:54] <mdz> fantabulous
[04:54] <wasabi> Sorta. ;)
[04:54] <wasabi> You know much about the gcj compilation stuff?
[04:54] <mdz> I have the 10,000-foot view
[04:55] <wasabi> gcj is an interpreter, which is slightly overridden when a .so exists for a particular class.
[04:55] <wasabi> So all the .jars stil elxist, and are still loaded.
[04:55] <wasabi> But the code is never interpreted.
[04:55] <wasabi> It's like an extra layer.
[04:55] <wasabi> Just makes it bigger. ;)
[04:56] <mdz> why is the .jar still loaded if a .so exists?
[04:56] <wasabi> .jar's contain more than code.
[04:56] <wasabi> Also, it's a hashing algoritm.
[04:56] <mdz> but all the code is still loaded into memory?
[04:56] <wasabi> A database of .class hashes -> .so mappings is made.
[04:56] <wasabi> The classloader returns the .class stream, gcj finds teh .so from the hash of it.
[04:56] <wasabi> Because classloaders can, and are overridden by applications in Java.
[04:57] <wasabi> Eclipse for instance implements it's own for it's plugin system.
[04:57] <wasabi> Yup. ALl loaded.
[04:59] <wasabi> fixed junit uploaded
[05:00] <mako> jsgotangco: umm.. probably :)
[05:02] <jsgotangco> AndyFitz, i like "A murder of crows"
[05:02] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:06] <wasabi> eclipse building
[05:12] <mdz> wasabi: what are the build-deps of the new eclipse?
[05:13] <mdz> well, this is clever
[05:13] <mdz> if I exec run-init /root /sbin/init, it gets hung up forever in some weird unionfs file locking function
[05:14] <mdz> but if I exec run-init /root /sbin/sulogin, and subsequently exec /sbin/init, everything runs smoothly
[05:14] <wasabi> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), sharutils, zip, unzip, gij-4.0, gcj-4.0, libgcj6-dev, fastjar, libant1.6-java, junit (>= 3.8), libxalan2-java, libxerces2-java, liblucene-java (>= 1.4.2), liblucene-java-doc (>= 1.4.2), libtomcat4-java, libjsch-java, libjsch-java-doc, libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.4), libgnome2-dev (>= 2.6), libgnomeui-dev (>= 2.6), libxtst-dev, mozilla-dev (>= 1.7.5)
[05:14] <mdz> beautiful, that's loads better than where it is now
[05:14] <wasabi> Hell yeah.
[05:14] <mdz> why a build-dep on a -doc package?
[05:14] <wasabi> WEird package.
[05:14] <mdz> heh, I bet
[05:15] <wasabi> The -doc portion includes some example code which is actually used from eclipse.
[05:15] <wasabi> Or at least referenced.
[05:15] <wasabi> It might be an error in the lucene package. I don't know enouhg about it to know more than that right now.
[05:17] <wasabi> The eclipse source package is 49M.
[05:17] <wasabi> This should be fun.
[05:18] <wasabi> The binaries are going to be about 110MB per arch.
[05:18] <wasabi> For now.
[05:18] <wasabi> =)
[05:18] <wasabi> HAPPY DAYS
[05:18] <wasabi> think we can fit it on the cd eh?
[05:20] <wasabi> It'll be neat to be personally responsible for a few hundred mb in the archives.
[05:20] <mdz> I think I can say without a doubt that we will have it on the DVD ;-)
[05:20] <wasabi> hehe.
[05:20] <wasabi> that's good to hear.
[05:20] <mdz> we could create a "java edition" CD
[05:20] <mdz> bump off some optional equipment like, say, openoffice to make room for eclipse ;-)
[05:21] <wasabi> What about an actual optional CD?
[05:21] <wasabi> Of Extras?
[05:21] <wasabi> Seen some software do that, like Office.
[05:21] <mdz> we've talked about that
[05:21] <wasabi> You get the main application CD< and then another CD of additions.
[05:21] <mdz> it would require some infrastructure we don't have yet, to make it work nicely
[05:22] <wasabi> but only the first would be required for a totally usable install.
[05:22] <wasabi> (unlike redhat!!! HA)
[05:23] <mdz> wasabi: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/j/junit/3.8.1.1-4ubuntu1/junit_3.8.1.1-4ubuntu1_20050602-0417-i386-failed.gz
[05:23] <wasabi> darnit, worked in my pbuilder
[05:23] <mdz> hmm, it needs gjdoc
[05:24] <wasabi> hmmm
[05:24] <mdz> infinity: around?
[05:24] <wasabi> java-gcj-compat is supposed to depend on that.
[05:25] <wasabi> um.
[05:25] <mdz> it does build-depend on it, but it didn't find it
[05:25] <wasabi> noticed, trying to comprehend.
[05:25] <wasabi> *chug*
[05:26] <mdz> this is what it would look like if junit were in main and gjdoc in universe
[05:26] <mdz> but they're both in universe at the moment
[05:26] <wasabi> but it's not.
[05:26] <geppy> The "Ubuntu device database collection" application outputs directly to ESD for the audio test.  Is there any reason why it shouldn't be patched to use the gstreamer sink in the gconf settings?
[05:27] <mdz> geppy: it uses the GNOME sound API
[05:27] <geppy> mdz: Harumph.
[05:27] <mdz> geppy: probably that library call should switch to using gstreamer
[05:27] <mdz> I think there was some talk about that
[05:28] <geppy> Ah, alright.
[05:28] <mdz> wasabi: odd, it found gjdoc fine the last time around: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/j/junit/3.8.1.1-4/junit_3.8.1.1-4_20050418-0221-i386-successful.bz2
[05:28] <mdz> seems like a buildd issue
[05:28] <mdz> which is why I'm hunting infinity
[05:30] <wasabi> there is no gjdoc is there
[05:30] <wasabi> i bet it didn't make it to breezy from hoary or something silly.
[05:30] <wasabi> I think actually I might know why this is.
[05:31] <mdz> it's definitely there in breezy
[05:31] <wasabi> wasabi@kyoto:~/tmp/gjdoc$ apt-get source gjdoc
[05:31] <wasabi> Reading package lists... Done
[05:31] <wasabi> Building dependency tree... Done
[05:31] <wasabi> E: Unable to find a source package for gjdoc
[05:32] <wasabi> it's not there.
[05:32] <mdz>      gjdoc | 0.7.3-1ubuntu1 | breezy/universe | source, all
[05:32] <mdz> is too
[05:32] <wasabi> well why the heck can't I apt get it
[05:32] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  apt-get source gjdoc
[05:32] <mdz> Reading package lists... Done
[05:32] <mdz> Building dependency tree... Done
[05:32] <mdz> Need to get 738kB of source archives.
[05:32] <wasabi> apt-cache show doesn't even show it.
[05:32] <mdz> do you not have a -src line for universe in sources.list?
[05:32] <wasabi> I do. I've been using it all night.
[05:32] <wasabi> It is clearly there, and clearly updated.
[05:33] <wasabi> apt-get update and try what you just did again
[05:33] <wasabi> heh
[05:34] <wasabi> It's not in SOurces.gz
[05:35] <mdz> oh, I've got hoary (and warty, for that matter) sources
[05:35] <wasabi> Last time it built was in hoary.
[05:36] <mdz> it's there in the db and it's there in the files on disk
[05:37] <mdz> Sources is being regenerated as we speak; let's see if it reappears
[05:37] <mdz> I had been moving things around earlier today and may have had poor timing
[05:40] <wasabi> THis happened today too.
[05:40] <wasabi> I've been building stuff all day that depends on gjdoc
[05:40] <wasabi> in a pbuilder root I updated like, 8 hours ago.
[05:43] <mdz> /dev/sda3             537G  505G  5.2G  99% /
[05:43] <mdz> that's not so good
[05:43] <wasabi> imagine if I had uploaded eclipse. ;)
[05:43] <wasabi> oh wait aht's a ton of gb
[05:43] <wasabi> heh
[05:44] <wasabi> It makes me feel good that my desktop PC can hold the Ubuntu archive in it's entirity, though.
[05:45] <jsgotangco> everything?
[05:45] <wasabi> I have 700GB of space.
[05:45] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[05:45] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: surprisingly, that's not too much these days
[05:46] <wasabi> not a lot at all.
[05:46] <wasabi> with 400GB hds.
[05:46] <wasabi> I have, 8 HD's of various sizes, patched together with evms
[05:46] <ajmitch> my desktop is just 280GB, with 2 drives using lvm
[05:46] <ajmitch> which is enough for development
[05:46] <wasabi> At some point I got over having a seperate "server".
[05:46] <jsgotangco> im just surprised
[05:47] <wasabi> And just built a massive desktop
[05:48] <jsgotangco> ive seen these tiny nas-wannabees from taiwan that hold at least 1TB on regular laptop drives
[05:48] <ajmitch> nice
[05:48] <bob2> bear in mind the canonical machines are scsi raid, not cheap ide, tho ;)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:49] <jsgotangco> of course
[05:50] <wasabi> I sure wish I could find some sort of ATA/SATA rack mounted enclosure that I liked... something where you could just slide a drive in, and the OS saw it, etc. Somehow that supported both IDE and SATA. ANd was cheap.
[05:51] <wasabi> I'd just set up a few at work and buy a ton of IDE drives and use EVMS
[05:51] <wasabi> SCSI is expensive.
[06:05] <Micksa> quick question
[06:05] <Micksa> I have to compile my own kernel
[06:06] <Micksa> how do I get it to make a kernel for just the one subarch?
[06:06] <crimsun_> remove the others you don't want compiled from config/
[06:07] <Micksa> ta
[06:11] <wasabi> mdz, ever figure it out?
[06:11] <mdz> wasabi: no, have to deal with some other stuff right now
[06:11] <wasabi> k
[06:12] <mdz> wasabi: try a no-change upload of gjdoc and see if that clears it up
[06:12] <wasabi> k
[06:12] <mdz> in fact there's a new version in Debian which needs merging anyway
[06:12] <mdz> so might as well upload that, even better
[06:12] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/gjdoc/
[06:14] <wasabi> Don't want to deal with it right now. They never implemented some important changes.
[06:15] <wasabi> (such as the complete reorginization of the package i submitted patches for previously)
[06:15] <wasabi> By no-change, you mean a version increment?
[06:16] <Micksa> the kernel source from the archive should compile right? :)
[06:17] <wasabi> eclipse isn't going up today heh.
[06:17] <wasabi> stupid help system won't cooperate
[06:19] <wasabi> frick that doesn't make any sense.
[06:19] <wasabi> I added hoary's -src... updated, apt-get gjdoc, and it pulls it from breezy/universe
[06:20] <Micksa> is there any reason to use a 686 kernel instead of a 386 kernel, apart from performance?
[06:50] <crimsun> Micksa: highmem support, etc.
[06:50] <crimsun> granted, that's arguably performance-related
[07:17] <fabbione> morning
[07:17] <crimsun> morn'
[07:54] <lamont> mdz: still fighting junit?
[07:57] <wasabi> I believe it just needs to be rebuilt.
[07:57] <wasabi> I could upload a new one.
[07:57] <lamont> given back on i386
[07:58] <lamont> I could kick the others as well, I believe
[07:58] <lamont> figured I'd wait and see how i386 did though...
[07:58] <mdz> lamont: given back, meaning that ubuntu2 failed as well?
[07:59] <mdz> lamont: thanks for looking at it
[07:59] <lamont> mdz: uh... dunno which one I tried to give back - only had a log file for i386, but then mail is kinda throttled most of the time...
[08:00] <mdz> lamont: it's still not showing up in Sources
[08:00] <wasabi> gjdoc appeared in sources.
[08:00] <mdz> something is broken on the archive end of things
[08:00] <mdz> oh, sorry, i was looking at main
[08:00] <wasabi> It was odd. I added a hoary -src line, updated, apt-get source, and it grabs from breezy. =/
[08:01] <lamont> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.batch.Main not found in gnu.gcj.runtime.SystemClassLoader{urls=[file:/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.4.2-gcj-4.0-1.4.2.0/lib/tools.jar,file:./] , parent=gnu.gcj.runtime.ExtensionClassLoader{urls=[] , parent=null}}
[08:01] <lamont> that's ubuntu1, which is current
[08:01] <mdz> wasabi: it grabs the most recent version by default
[08:01] <lamont> did you just upload ubuntu2?
[08:01] <mdz> ubuntu2 was uploaded a while ago
[08:01] <wasabi> yeah, it was just odd that it appeared in teh space of 2 seconds. Confused me. ;)
[08:01] <mdz> the source is in the archive
[08:02] <lamont>  wanna-build -bi386/build-db -dbreezy --info junit
[08:02] <lamont> junit:
[08:02] <lamont>   Package             : junit
[08:02] <lamont>   Version             : 3.8.1.1-4ubuntu1
[08:02] <lamont>   Builder             : buildd+vernadsky
[08:02] <lamont> uh......
[08:02] <wasabi> funny. I don't have a ubuntu2 laying around here.
[08:03] <wasabi> I would have if I had uploaded it.
[08:03] <mdz> lamont: there are several gigs left, but this still makes me uncomfortable: /dev/sda3             537G  505G  4.8G 100% /
[08:03] <lamont> which machine is that?  jackass?
[08:03] <mdz>      gjdoc | 0.7.3-1ubuntu1 | hoary/universe | source, all
[08:03] <mdz>      gjdoc | 0.7.3-1ubuntu2 | breezy/universe | source
[08:03] <mdz> lamont: yes
[08:04] <wasabi> that's gjdoc.
[08:04] <wasabi> i think we're talking about junit.
[08:04] <lamont> mdz: most recent junit is 4ubuntu1....
[08:04] <mdz> oh, junit
[08:04] <mdz> never mind
[08:04] <wasabi> i think i just screwed up junit is all.
[08:04] <mdz> but why hasn't gjdoc built?
[08:04] <lamont> mdz: that has been elmo's pain of late, iirc
[08:05] <wasabi> okay I have uploaded gjdoc 1ubuntu2
[08:05] <wasabi> is that the one you're giving back?
[08:05] <lamont> wasabi: yes
[08:06] <wasabi> k.
[08:06] <lamont> which really just means that you'll get to seen another log file...
[08:06] <wasabi> this thing should email be build logs. ;)
[08:06] <wasabi> s/be/me/
[08:07] <lamont> heh
[08:07] <wasabi> I always forget to go look.
[08:07] <lamont> give it ~30 minutes, and you should see results
[08:19] <fabbione> night lamont
[08:21] <wasabi> oh my. Eclipse build got over the hump.
[08:40] <mdz> how's junit looking?
[08:41] <mdz> hmm, no build log yet
[08:41] <mdz> infinity: can you check the status of junit?
[08:41] <mdz> wasabi: what time zone are you in?
[08:46] <wasabi> cst
[08:46] <wasabi> cdt now maybe
[08:46] <wasabi> it's 2 am here almost
[08:47] <wasabi> I just did another upload of gjdoc, which should finalyl put it to rest.
[08:47] <wasabi> junit should fall in line behind that.
[08:48] <wasabi> If this eclipse build launches, even if it's full of erorrs, im uploading it.
[08:48] <wasabi> Desperatly need to get this out there so other people can fix it for me!
[08:49] <wasabi> (personal milestone)
[08:52] <infinity> mdz : junit is currently building on all 4 arches.  Should be fine.
[08:54] <mdz> wasabi: that's what break the worl^W^W^WOpenDevelopment is all about :-)
[08:55] <infinity> Fine, except for the part where it's failed on i386...
[08:55] <mdz> what's the nature of the failure
[08:56] <wasabi> gjdoc needs to go before it.
[08:56] <infinity> wasabi : It did.
[08:56] <infinity> wasabi : This is a new failure.
[08:56] <wasabi> ubuntu3? :)
[08:57] <infinity> Setting up gjdoc (0.7.3-1ubuntu1)
[08:57] <infinity> I'll kick it back.
[08:57] <infinity> Thanks. :)
[08:57] <wasabi> geeze. i've made 2 totally ass broken uploads of gjdoc in 2 hours.
[08:58] <mdz> wasabi: that's what you get for staying up working on it until 2 ;-)
[08:58] <wasabi> yeah
[08:58] <wasabi> I wish a single eclipse build/test didn't take 30 minutes.
[08:58] <infinity> When did you upload ubuntu3?
[08:59] <infinity> The buildds are still building ubuntu2, apparently.
[08:59] <mdz> wasabi: perhaps ccache needs to be extended for gcj
[08:59] <wasabi> 2 should have broken pretty quickly.
[08:59] <infinity> (when I say "building", I mean "failing, but claiming they're building")
[08:59] <infinity> In other words, 3 isn't registered yet.  I'll wait longer. :)
[09:00] <wasabi> mdz, it'd be nearly impossible to implement.
[09:00] <wasabi> gcj, in the optimal use case, takes a .jar file and simply turns it into a .so file.
[09:00] <wasabi> The .jar file is really just a ZIP of a bunch of .class files.
[09:00] <wasabi> timestamps all over the place.
[09:01] <mdz> are the .jar files being rebuilt as part of the build as well?
[09:01] <wasabi> Yes.
[09:01] <wasabi> RIght now I actually have the .so's disabled because they make the build take 45 minutes. ;)
[09:02] <wasabi> It's not a very pretty picture really.
[09:02] <wasabi> I'm going to have to work out some arch/arch-indep split.
[09:02] <wasabi> For every -java package on the system.
[09:03] <wasabi> And either the arch packages are going to have to be seperate source packages, or the entire build, arch and arch indep, will have to happen for every platform, for every java package.
[09:04] <infinity> wasabi : junit will be retries as soon as your new gjdoc is built everywhere.
[09:04] <wasabi> The Debian guys are a bit skittish about that.
[09:04] <wasabi> infinity, cool thanks.
[09:06] <wasabi> wasabi@kyoto:~/tmp/eclipse/eclipse-3.0.1/debian$ cat rules  | wc -l
[09:06] <wasabi> 696
[09:12] <pitti> Morning
[09:12] <wasabi> =(
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: morning
[09:19] <pitti> Hi mdz
[09:21] <wasabi> Okay so if I upload eclipse now, it'll hit multiverse.
[09:21] <wasabi> eclipse in multiverse is perpetually hung at this point, so it probably needs to be poked, right?
[09:22] <mdz> wasabi: perpetually hung?
[09:22] <wasabi> Well, it can't possibly build.
[09:22] <wasabi> Probably dep-waiting on things that wil lnever be.
[09:23] <wasabi> So I guess I can just go ahead and do it, and get somebody to kick j2sdk1.3 when I'm done.
[09:27] <wasabi> Oh. 'lucene' needs to be moved to universe (it's in multiverse)
[09:29] <Treenaks> hi Jane :)
[09:53] <wasabi> mdz, if you're still around, I found the hang up about all of this.
[09:54] <wasabi> gjdoc depends on antlr which depends ong jdoc.
[09:54] <wasabi> gjdoc
[09:54] <wasabi> which isn't a big deal, except antlr is C++ as mentioned earlier and in main while gjdoc is in universe. ;)
[09:55] <mdz> wasabi: is that what's tying up these builds?
[09:55] <wasabi> yeah.
[09:56] <wasabi> gjdoc makes documentation, so everything depends on it.
[09:56] <mdz> we need to build a new antlr?
[09:56] <wasabi> and gjdoc parses javadoc, and antlr is a abstract parser.
[09:56] <wasabi> The antlr upload should build fine, it's just held.
[09:56] <wasabi> A binary gjdoc exists from earlier.
[09:56] <mdz> I didn't realize there was an antlr upload pending
[09:56] <mdz> but that binary is no good?
[09:57] <wasabi> The binary is fine.
[09:57] <mdz> but it's in universe
[09:57] <wasabi> But it's old.
[09:57] <wasabi> yup
[09:57] <mdz> I don't see any recent antlr build attempts
[09:57] <wasabi> two choices. Either antlr needs to be moved back to universe, or everything else needs to be moved to main.
[09:57] <wasabi> There haven't been. It's just sititng there.
[09:57] <wasabi> It's part C++
[09:57] <mdz> I don't mind moving everything to main once junit is fixed ;-)
[09:58] <wasabi> junit is fixed, waiting on gjdoc, which is waiting on antlr. heh.
[09:58] <mdz> I can certainly move antlr back to universe temporarily
[09:58] <mdz> but we won't be able to retry the builds without infinity or lamont
[09:58] <wasabi> That would help, if you move it to main, I can't work on it.
[09:58] <mdz> who won't be around for hours anyway
[09:58] <wasabi> I have no idea how I managed to upload antlr to main, actually.
[09:59] <wasabi> I'm not supposed to be allowed to do that.
[09:59] <wasabi> Could somebody have been monkeying with it earlier to try to get it thru?
[09:59] <mdke> smurfix, ping
[10:00] <smurfix> mdke: 
[10:00] <mdke> ooh
[10:00] <mdke> cool character
[10:00] <smurfix> heh
[10:01] <wasabi> Eclipse built.
[10:01] <wasabi> Unf.
[10:01] <Treenaks> what's with all the java uploads suddenly?
[10:01] <wasabi> <---
[10:02] <bob2> free java can run stuff now?
[10:02] <wasabi> Yes.
[10:02] <wasabi> Eclipse will be uploaded momentarily!
[10:02] <bob2> does eclipse usefully work yet?
[10:02] <wasabi> Yeah, it's pretty much complete.
[10:03] <mdz> wasabi: I moved antlr into main today (yesterday)
[10:03] <mdz> because its deps were sorted already
[10:03] <wasabi> Ahh.
[10:03] <wasabi> Hmmm.
[10:04] <wasabi> antlr's depends aren't in mian.
[10:04] <wasabi> main
[10:04] <wasabi> oh, they are.
[10:04] <wasabi> you moved java-gcj-compat too
[10:04] <mdz> I've moved antlr (the binary only) back to universe temporarily so that you can try to break this cycle
[10:04] <mdz> then it should move back, along with libant1.6-java, junit, libjaxp1.2-java and xerces-j
[10:04] <wasabi> yes.
[10:05] <wasabi> So, I am allowed to upload to main now?
[10:05] <wasabi> Or just those packages?
[10:05] <wasabi> I'm a bit confused about that.
[10:05] <mdz> we don't have the capability to restrict at the package level, only at the component level
[10:05] <wasabi> Because I've been uploading versions of this stuff all day, and it hasn't been complaining.
[10:05] <mdz> you must have done it before I moved them
[10:05] <mdz> in fact at least in some of those cases, I was waiting for your uploads to be built so that I could move them
[10:06] <mdz> I think it would be a good idea if you started the process to be able to upload to main
[10:06] <wasabi> Who do I talk to 
[10:06] <wasabi> yeah
[10:08] <mdz> wasabi: MOTU can provide guidance for that
[10:08] <bob2> Treenaks: I tried running eclips the other week
[10:08] <bob2> Treenaks: it was a 80MB download (+ JDK)
[10:09] <wasabi> Eclipse installs
[10:09] <bob2> and the default config shows you about 4 lines of code
[10:10] <mdz> wasabi: nice!
[10:10] <Micksa> unf unf unf
[10:11] <mdz> wasabi: so on the other front, we need to 1) build antlr, 2) build gjdoc, 3) build junit, 4) move the lot to main
[10:11] <wasabi> eclipse does not launch.
[10:11] <Micksa> bob2: clearly all these people talking about it are crazy
[10:11] <mdz> wasabi: ?
[10:11] <wasabi> =(
[10:11] <bob2> ouch
[10:12] <wasabi> It's most likely because of my hacked help system
[10:14] <wasabi> I'm going to upload it broken anyways and go to bed, because the .orig.tar.gz is 54mb
[10:14] <Micksa> heh
[10:14] <pitti> jordi: ping
[10:15] <Micksa> welcome to packaging hell
[10:15] <bob2> er
[10:15] <bob2> uploading packages which are known not to work is a bit harsh
[10:15] <mdz> wasabi: antlr doesn't depend or build-depend on gjdoc
[10:16] <wasabi> it's going to multiverse, it's never built in ubuntu successfully before.
[10:16] <wasabi> (previous version was non-free)
[10:16] <jordi> pitti: pong
[10:16] <wasabi> ANd I really need it someplace with bandwidth. ;) I can't keep sending people a 54mb file to take a look.
[10:16] <pitti> jordi: about http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=309751 (mailutils vulns)
[10:16] <pitti> jordi: oh, I /msg
[10:17] <jordi> k
[10:17] <wasabi> mdz, im sleepy, forgive me. =/
[10:19] <wasabi> im bailing. can't do anymore.
[10:19] <wasabi> night
[10:19] <mdz> wasabi: so gjdoc just needs for antlr >= 2.7.5-6ubuntu3 to build?
[10:19] <wasabi> yes.
[10:36] <tepsipakki> how come does the hoary-installer (netboot) fail when it tries to retrieve lvm10?
[10:36] <tepsipakki> this is a fairly new issue, I've installed successfully last week
[10:37] <mdke> bug?
[10:37] <tepsipakki> but where
[10:37] <bob2> can you see it in the pool?
[10:37] <tepsipakki> yes
[10:38] <tepsipakki> maybe the installer has been updated? will check..
[10:38] <tepsipakki> no, it's still the same
[10:41] <tepsipakki> i'll try to raise the debug-level and see if it reveals something..
[10:41] <tepsipakki> oh, yesterday it failed a lot earlier, it couldn't retrieve any udeb's
[10:45] <bob2> that sounds way more like a local network issue
[10:45] <bob2> read the log on console 4
[10:45] <bob2> or 3, I forget
[10:46] <tepsipakki> nothing there
[10:46] <tepsipakki> of interest
[10:46] <mdz> night all
[10:46] <pitti> night mdz
[10:47] <fabbione> night mdz
[10:47] <fabbione> hey pitti
[10:47] <pitti> Moin moin fabbione 
[10:48] <elmo> Kamion: thanks, applied and run
[10:48] <elmo> (tho bonus points for a ChangeLog entry, </drepper> ;)
[11:04] <adn> hello here!
[11:10] <tepsipakki> bob2: it wasn't a network problem, because it could wget preseed-files from the same server
[11:11] <tepsipakki> it seems that the installer doesn't read BOOT_DEBUG at all
[11:22] <Mithrandir> daniels: are you aware that /usr/bin/mkfontdir is broken?  It tries to run /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale.
[11:37] <doko> elmo: please sync java-gcj-compat and ecj-bootstrap from incoming (tomorrow experimental)
[11:38] <Mithrandir> doko: is it you or somebody else who has uploaded an uninstallable ia32-libs?
[11:39] <doko> Mithrandir: I uploaded zlib, building lib32z1 and lib32z1-dev as well
[11:41] <Mithrandir> doko: why?  Is this change coordinated with Debian?
[11:41] <doko> Mithrandir: lib32gcj6 needs it, the alternative was to add zlib1g-dev to ia32-libs
[11:43] <Mithrandir> doko: why do we want lib32gcj6?
[11:43] <doko> to remove the ooo-amd64 crap?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> uhm, are you going to have 32 bit libraries of everything ooo build-deps on?
[11:46] <doko> no, only for the libs, which are not in the ooo2 source
[11:47] <Mithrandir> doesn't it build-dep on stuff like gnome and kde?
[11:48] <doko> only for the gui integration
[11:49] <Mithrandir> you're only giving me small, small pieces of the puzzle here.  Can you give me all of it rather than forcing me to drag it out of you piecewise?
[11:49] <Mithrandir> what's the grand plan?
[11:51] <doko> to build ooo using gcc -m32, as long as it's not supported for 64bit
[11:51] <Mithrandir> that's a goal, not a plan. :-)
[11:52] <doko> well, it's doable, if you have the libgcj support
[11:53] <Mithrandir> again, what's the grand plan?
[11:53] <doko> ?
[11:53] <doko> don't know what you mean. anyway, I'm away for some hours
[11:53] <Mithrandir> how are you going to just compile ooo without making 32 bit libraries of *gnome* and *kde*?
[11:54] <tseng> doko:  we should talk about ironpython again sometime
[11:54] <Mithrandir> doko: and this is totally uncoordinated with debian and with me, which is a bad thing.
[11:54] <jdub> IRON PYTHON!
[11:54] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[11:54] <tseng> doko: we need to get someone to be filing mono bugs to implement the missing 2.0 stuff
[11:54] <Mithrandir> jdub: good morning
[11:54] <tseng> hi jdub
[11:55] <doko> tseng: yes, are you online tonight?
[11:55] <tseng> doko: tonight as in 6-9EST, yes
[11:55] <ajmitch> hello
[11:56] <tseng> hi ajmitch 
[11:56] <tseng> jdub: 10x10/05!
[11:56] <doko> Mithrandir: what kind of coordination do you need? zlib does 64bit libs, so why not build the 32bit libs as well?
[11:56] <tseng> jdub: to correspond with the breezy badger release.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> doko: like, making sure there's appropriate conflicts in there?  Making sure that the change will go into debian too?
[11:57] <tseng> jdub: WORLD TOUR
[11:57] <jdub> heh
[11:57] <ajmitch> and of that 10, how many would be ubuntu installs?
[11:57] <jdub> ajmitch: we'll probably be the driving force :)
[11:57] <ajmitch> I hope so :)
[11:58] <tseng> ubuntu is the closest to stock gnome you can get with the least pain
[11:58] <tseng> gentoo is closer but involves copious pain.. everyone else = patch-o-matic
[11:59] <ajmitch> stock gnome, fresh releases, what more could you want?
[11:59] <tseng> i have no idea how to get that s*ithouse hat out of my gnome menu
[11:59] <tseng> on that certain other "community" distro
[11:59] <jdub> tseng: we're going to have the ubuntu logo there for breezy ;)
[11:59] <jdub> but it will be easier to change (just change icon themes)
[11:59] <tseng> yep
[11:59] <jdub> speaking of fedora
[12:00] <tseng> andy showed me
[12:00] <jdub> heelo drbyte 
[12:00] <tseng> ColinCharleQueue!!
[12:00] <ajmitch> evening drbyte 
[12:00] <vuntz> tseng: doesn't changing the theme replace the hat with a foot?
[12:01] <tseng> vuntz: changing the icon theme? I dont think so
[12:01] <tseng> maybe.
[12:01] <drbyte> hi jdub. i owe you something, this weekend i hope. been a bit busy
[12:01] <drbyte> tseng: is there stuff there?
[12:01] <drbyte> hi aj 
[12:01] <drbyte> mitch
[12:01] <vuntz> tseng: I have a foot here (Fedora at work ;-))
[12:01] <tseng> drbyte: no no, it was my terrible sense of humor
[12:02] <jdub> drbyte: sweet :)
[12:02] <jsgotangco> jdub, UbuntuAtConferences?
[12:02] <Lathiat> hmm, something break nsswitch in breezy?
[12:02] <jdub> jsgotangco: hrm?
[12:02] <drbyte> tseng: heh, right
[12:02] <jsgotangco> jdub, CD Artwork *wink*
[12:03] <tseng> speaking of conferences
[12:03] <ajmitch> so is someone brave enough to try & package the fedora directory server?
[12:03] <jdub> jsgotangco: hmm!
[12:03] <tseng> ogra: did you find jelkner?
[12:03] <vuntz> tseng: hrm... maybe you need to log out to see the new icon (panel bug)
[12:03] <tseng> vuntz: ah.
[12:04] <jsgotangco> jdub, brochures, flyers, etc for ubuntu@conferences desperately need artwork from the cd
[12:04] <tseng> im sure we'll fix that for breezy, i have a foot fetish
[12:04] <jsgotangco> (the cover at least)
[12:04] <ogra> tseng, ?
[12:04] <ogra> tseng, we are mailing regulary
[12:04] <tseng> ogra: i asked if you saw jelkner to ask him to email me
[12:04] <vuntz> tseng: I'm pretty sure it's fixed in 2.10
[12:04] <vuntz> hi ogra :-)
[12:05] <ogra> hey vuntz 
[12:11] <maswan> drbyte: hey, I heard rumours that you guys are going to do a release this weekend too. want to compete with debian for network traffic? ;)
[12:11] <opi> naa, everyone are running SID ;)
[12:12] <maswan> opi: well, more likely Ubuntu by now, but.. :)
[12:12] <Mithrandir> hi maswan
[12:12] <opi> maswan: Sssh, that's a secret!
[12:12] <jdub> mmm, hibernate means being able to switch batteries :)
[12:13] <opi> jdub: or carry your laptop with broken batteries from one room to another (yes!) ;-)
[12:13] <Lathiat> heh
[12:14] <drbyte> maswan: june 6th; not a rumor, more of has always been the plan for FC-4 release
[12:14] <maswan> drbyte: Heh. Well, we'll see then. :)
[12:15] <Treenaks> Bring down the 'net!
[12:16] <Lathiat> daniels: ping
[12:16] <maswan> Yeah. I hope to see enough usage to flatline the university OC48. :)
[12:16] <tseng> just dont saturate the mirrors.kernel.org pipe
[12:16] <tseng> i need to grab fedora-updates off their nightly for work systems
[12:17] <drbyte> maswan: is sarge /really/ releasing this time though?
[12:18] <maswan> tseng: I don't know if they mirror debian-cd
[12:18] <jsgotangco> brb
[12:18] <tseng> they mirror fedora cds
[12:18] <maswan> tseng: well, not my fault then. :)
[12:19] <maswan> drbyte: I'd be really surprised if it didn't happen.
[12:19] <RePo-MaN> can some one tell wot this server got to offer
[12:20] <jdub> firefox is crashy-poo in breezy
[12:21] <Lathiat> anyone know the cant open font fixed solution?
[12:24] <pitti> Lathiat: I had this once, I adapted the font paths in xorg.conf to "/usr/share/X11/fonts/..."
[12:25] <jordi> jdub: go epiphany :)
[12:28] <Lathiat> thanks pitti 
[12:56] <pitti> Hi Nafallo 
[12:56] <pitti> Nafallo: just uploaded dhcp3 which should finally fix everything. Sorry about that one
[01:02] <Nafallo> pitti: yea. I saw. about the download it when my cron.daily is finished :-)
[01:08] <Mez> thom, you therE?
[01:09] <Nafallo> pitti: it's not in the archive yet, is it?
[01:09] <pitti> Nafallo: I just uploaded it and got the ACCEPTED mail, but it certainly needs another 20 minutes or so
[01:10] <Nafallo> pitti: yea. thought so :-).
[01:14] <ogra> pitti, any actions from my side for python2.4-gnome2-extras ?
[01:14] <pitti> ogra: if you want to speed up the process, you could prepare an initial report :-)
[01:15] <ogra> pitti, is there an exaple anywhere ?
[01:15] <pitti> ogra: but if not, I'll do it at some time
[01:15] <pitti> ogra: yes, there are examples linked from https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[01:15] <pitti> ogra: and there is also a pointer to the spec
[01:15] <pitti> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[01:15] <pitti> as I wrote yesterday on -devel
[01:16] <ogra> yep... sorry...
[01:16] <ogra> i'll do the initial report :)
[01:16] <pitti> cool, thanks
[01:16] <ogra> but today is screensaver day around here :)
[01:17] <Nafallo> ogra: ehm... you're looking at screensavers all day? :-P
[01:18] <pitti> Nafallo: yeah, that's what we are paid for
[01:18] <pitti> Nafallo: watch out for small bugs in the rendering and such
[01:18] <ogra> Nafallo, i have to transition 4.21, its in the queue since a while... and 4.16 is broken, so first i'll see to have a 4.21 that actually builds to release X ... then i'll backport our changes
[01:20] <Nafallo> pitti: hehe. looking for security vulnerabilities ;-)
[01:20] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh, oki.
[01:20] <pitti> Nafallo: yeah, if there is a security hole (a transparent spot that discloses parts of the user's desktop)
[01:43] <JohnDong> hey everyone :)
[01:43] <ajmitch> hello JohnDong 
[01:44] <JohnDong> just wondering if anyone can tell me about FreeNX & Universe ... :)
[01:45] <Mithrandir> JohnDong: what are you wondering about?
[01:45] <JohnDong> if there's any immediate plan to get it into Breezy Universe
[01:45] <Mithrandir> there is, look at the FasterNetworkedX spec.
[01:46] <JohnDong> where is this?
[01:47] <JohnDong> found it, nvm
[01:47] <Mithrandir> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterNetworkedX ; first hit for fasternetworkedx on google. :-P
[01:48] <JohnDong> yeah, I googled :)
[01:49] <JohnDong> so what's a rough timeline for this?
[01:49] <JohnDong> I mean, Kalyxo already has FreeNX debianized
[01:49] <JohnDong> and Kanotix/Knoppix have been using it well for months now :)
[01:49] <Mithrandir> except kalyxo's domain has expired. :-P
[01:50] <JohnDong> alternate access URL's
[01:50] <JohnDong> http://kalyxo-archive.mornfall.net/
[01:50] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[01:50] <Mithrandir> I'll talk to mornfall, then.
[01:50] <JohnDong> awesome
[01:50] <Amaranth> JohnDong: Isn't that one of the major things in backports that you worked on?
[01:51] <Mithrandir> I need to vet the debs to make sure they're not utterly crackful, but apart from that it should be fine to just import them
[01:51] <JohnDong> Amaranth: I just imported Kalyxo's packages, and they work fine. But due to the new restrictions this official move places on Backports, I can't pull source archives out of my ass anymoer
[01:52] <JohnDong> excuse the expression :)
[01:53] <ajmitch> JohnDong: don't worry, universe has had a general plan to import random crack anyway
[01:54] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: I'm not going to sign any .debs which I'm not ok with.
[01:54] <Amaranth> mako: ping?
[01:56] <JohnDong> oh yes, also, what do you think about the legality of user-side downloading debs, like msttcorefonts?
[01:56] <JohnDong> would Acrobat Reader done that way be OK for multiverse?
[01:56] <JohnDong> Gentoo's been doing it like that for years now
[01:57] <Kamion> elmo: thanks, I'll remember next time :-)
[01:57] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: it wasn't about importing random binaries, but things like the apt-get.org source import
[01:57] <Mithrandir> JohnDong: any particular reason why you're mentioning stuff which is all mine? :-)  (I'm lead for FNX and maintains msttcorefonts)
[01:57] <JohnDong> just coincidence :)
[01:57] <Kamion> tepsipakki: your installation problem was an archive problem, which was resolved as of about half an hour after when you asked; try again
[01:59] <JohnDong> so, any answer for me? ;)
[02:00] <Mithrandir> JohnDong: hm, the nx packages needs a bit of work, at least.  Their "Architecture" line is wrong, at least.
[02:00] <George^Deka> im not running breezy but has envice been packaged yet
[02:01] <thom> George^Deka: evince has been available since the middle of hoary
[02:01] <Kamion> evince? yes, it was in hoary let alone breezy
[02:01] <JohnDong> Mithrandir: ok, I guess they may not be 'correct' debian-wise... What about loader packages for restricted stuff?
[02:01] <Mithrandir> JohnDong: installer packages are ok-ish, I think.
[02:02] <JohnDong> Mith: ok-ish? So multiverse could have like transcode and w32codecs installers a la msttcorefonts?
[02:03] <Mithrandir> JohnDong: I think so, but you shold really ask on -devel, I think.
[02:04] <maswan> hmm.. does breezy have apache2.1 (with LFS) yet?
[02:04] <maswan> damn. missed #ubuntu. sorry guys.
[02:04] <Mithrandir> maswan: no, not yet.
[02:05] <Amaranth> maswan: no, 2.0.x
[02:05] <Mithrandir> maswan: thom has some httpd2.1 packages, afaik
[02:05] <Amaranth> what's lfs?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> large file support
[02:05] <Amaranth> ah
[02:05] <Amaranth> > 2GB?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> mhm
[02:05] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok. Oh, well. Might as well do a hoary and a quick recompile myself then.
[02:06] <Amaranth> You weren't going to run a server on breezy if it did have it, were you?
[02:06] <JohnDong> LOL
[02:06] <maswan> Sure, why not?
[02:06] <JohnDong> who wants an apache2.1 backport for Warty?
[02:06] <maswan> I mean, I'd test it first, for 10 minutes or so. Then I'd run a server.
[02:06] <JohnDong> (just kidding, of course)
[02:06] <Amaranth> JohnDong: Die. :)
[02:06] <JohnDong> lol
[02:07] <Amaranth> maswan: Well, breezy isn't guaranteed to be stable or secure, so good luck.
[02:07] <maswan> I'm setting up a couple of temporary servers for the debian release.
[02:07] <maswan> they are going to last perhaps one week
[02:07] <Lathiat> maswan: which release?
[02:07] <Nafallo> maswan: kewl! debian servers running ubuntu. I like that :-).
[02:07] <Nafallo> Lathiat: sarge? ;-)
[02:07] <maswan> Nafallo: Well, ftp.se.debian.org runs AIX. :)
[02:08] <Lathiat> Nafallo: :)
[02:08] <Lathiat> have we got a definate date on that?
[02:08] <Kamion> daniels: are libxkbui1 and libxp6 supposed to have disappeared from breezy desktop?
[02:08] <Nafallo> maswan: I know. that's not a branch of debian, is it? ;-)
[02:08] <Amaranth> Lathiat: A couple days from now?
[02:08] <maswan> Lathiat: So far nothing has turned up to speak against the weekend/monday release.
[02:10] <thom> maswan: http://people.debian.org/~thom/apache-httpd2.1/
[02:10] <Lathiat> Amaranth, maswan:nice
[02:13] <tepsipakki> Kamion: thanks for fixing the archive.. I hope these aren't frequent ;)
[02:15] <Kamion> tepsipakki: wasn't me, but yeah
[02:18] <trulux> someone here has access to lwn.net's article on Kernel: Time to remove LSM???
[02:18] <trulux> I need to read on that before something bad happens
[02:18] <trulux> :(
[02:20] <Kamion> it doesn't suggest anything happening immediately; you can wait
[02:23] <Kamion> elmo: can we start running hilarie from cron.daily? I keep getting bug reports when people forget to run it manually
[02:37] <robtaylor> mm, anyone know if breezy's gonna get hotplug-ng (or even if hotplug-ng is any good? ;)
[02:37] <Mithrandir> robtaylor: probably.
[02:38] <robtaylor> Mithrandir: so it seems good?
[02:38] <Mithrandir> robtaylor: haven't looked to closely yet, but from what I hear, yes.
[02:38] <robtaylor> groovy ;)
[02:38] <robtaylor> might give it a try myself sometime then :)
[02:42] <Amaranth> what's with all the -ng stuff?
[02:42] <Amaranth> is this free software's version of 
[02:42] <Amaranth> err
[02:42] <Amaranth> free software's version of 'xtreme'
[02:42] <Nafallo> Amaranth: next generation
[02:42] <Amaranth> i know that
[02:42] <Amaranth> it's a buzzword
[02:48] <mjg59> Is restricted stuff that's on the CD installed by default?
[02:50] <Lathiat> whats up with hotplug-ng
[02:50] <Kamion> mjg59: if it's in the desktop seed or greater, ye
[02:50] <Kamion> s
[02:50] <Kamion> Lathiat: could you be more vague? :-)
[02:50] <Lathiat> Kamion: hotplug-ng ?
[02:50] <Kamion> "what's up with"
[02:51] <Lathiat> no, that was my reply :)
[02:51] <Lathiat> i was being more vague :)
[02:51] <Amaranth> Lathiat: http://kerneltrap.org/node/4706
[02:51] <Amaranth> kernel trap always has good explainations
[02:52] <Kamion> Lathiat: ah :-)
[02:53] <Lathiat> mmm that page doesnt render very well in w3m or links
[02:53] <Lathiat> Kamion: :)
[02:53] <Lathiat> bbl
[02:54] <mjg59> The wiki is being very slow
[02:54] <Amaranth> can someone whip up a little shell script magic for me?
[02:55] <Amaranth> i need to know how much space all the dot files are using in my home dir
[02:55] <Mithrandir> du -c ~/.??*
[02:56] <Lathiat> du -shc
[02:56] <Amaranth> 4.4G? damn
[02:56] <pitti> Amaranth: ffox cache?
[02:56] <Mithrandir> you use ccache or something?
[02:57] <Amaranth> isn't the default ff cache 50MB?
[02:57] <pitti> oh, right
[02:57] <Amaranth> any way to get a breakdown of the what is using what?
[02:57] <adamh> When I run python2.4-dbg, I can't import MySQLdb. Is there any way around that?
[02:57] <pitti> Amaranth: use du -hsc .??*
[02:57] <Lathiat> Amaranth: du -shc ~/.??* | less
[02:57] <Lathiat> Amaranth: as i said earlier... :)
[02:58] <Lathiat> Amaranth: nautilus thumbnails hurt too
[02:58] <Amaranth> beagle
[02:58] <Amaranth> 82M, damn
[02:58] <Lathiat> |grep M is also usefull
[02:58] <Lathiat> 82M is nothing :)
[02:58] <adamh> And is there any way to install debugging symbols for a regular Python2.4 build, as a workaround?
[02:59] <Amaranth> grep M is showing beagle using the most
[03:00] <Amaranth> i would have thought .gnome2 would be a beast
[03:00] <thom> 65M    /home/thom/.evolution/
[03:00] <thom> um, that's 365
[03:00] <thom> i don't even use evo
[03:00] <thom> grah
[03:00] <Amaranth> heh
[03:00] <Mithrandir> thom: *chuckle*
[03:01] <thom> 6.3G in dotfiles; 4.9 of that from ccache
[03:01] <Amaranth> du -shc ~/.??* is only coming up with 138M
[03:01] <Amaranth> ccache?
[03:02] <Amaranth> du -shc ~/.??* also isn't showing everything
[03:02] <Lathiat> well if you have dot dirs that are 1 or 2 chracters it wont
[03:02] <pitti> Amaranth: du -hsdc ~/.[^.] ?
[03:03] <pitti> erm, du -hsc ~/.[^.] *
[03:03] <pitti> that works forme
[03:03] <Amaranth> still 138M
[03:03] <Amaranth> maybe that's the real value
[03:03] <opi> du -hsc ~/.[^.] * | tail -1
[03:04] <opi> to avoid mess ;)
[03:04] <Amaranth> 138M, ok
[03:04] <opi> emil@rude:~ $ du -hsc ~/.[^.] * | tail -1
[03:04] <opi> du: `/home/emil/.aptitude': Brak dostpu
[03:04] <opi> 3,0G    razem
[03:04] <Amaranth> much better, that i can burn to a cd
[03:06] <opi> I htink the dotfiles size is caused by some programs: .amula .mozilla ;)
[03:08] <Nafallo> hmm
[03:08] <Nafallo> 263M dotfiles ;-)
[03:47] <jk24> Hi, the installer is broken for scsi disks, i've just post a bug on bugzilla
[03:47] <Lathiat> jk24: you incaluded all the pertitnant information right?
[03:48] <Lathiat> jk24: such as your lspci output, etc
[03:49] <jk24> Lathiat, not, because it's just a typo bug
[03:49] <jk24> Lathiat, #11426
[03:49] <Lathiat> hrm, ok
[03:55] <Kamion> be wary of making sweeping generalisations from single examples of breakage
[03:55] <Kamion> the installer is not broken for all SCSI disks
[03:55] <jk24> Kamion, did you read the bug ?
[03:55] <Kamion> yes. I'll look at it
[03:56] <Kamion> ah, breezy installer. I did test the last release on a system with SCSI disks though
[03:56] <Kamion> haven't tested today's daily yet ...
[03:58] <jk24> Kamion, then, the problem here, is not an "scsi" issue, it's that the installer use /dev/scsi/......./disc3 instead of /dev/scsi/....../part3 
[03:58] <jk24> Kamion, it's a typo
[03:58] <Kamion> I understood the bug report, yes. I'll have a look
[03:59] <Kamion> that would not be so simple as a typo though ... we'll see
[03:59] <Kamion> partition->disk mapping is complicated
[03:59] <jk24> Kamion, are the sources of the "current" installer available ?
[03:59] <Kamion> yes, in the archive
[04:00] <Kamion> lots of components
[04:02] <wasabi> doko, what happened with java-gcj-compat and antlr? I notice the build-dep on antlr was updated to depend on a version of java-gcj-compat I can't find anywhere.
[04:02] <smurfix> Anybody know if/when sabdfl will be back today?
[04:02] <Kamion> jk24: please attach /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman from the installer to the bug
[04:05] <Kamion> huh, confirmed
[04:06] <Kamion> well, that will help, always easier when I can reproduce it :)
[04:08] <wasabi> lamont, have another multiverse package held up on a dep-wait. 'eclipse' hung up waiting for 'j2sdk1.3'.
[04:13] <Nafallo> pitti: thanx. just tested the new dhclient3. I should rework my mirrorscripts :-P.
[04:15] <Nafallo> pitti: thanx. just tested the new dhclient3. works :-).
[04:15] <pitti> cool
[04:16] <Nafallo> I should rework my mirrorscript though :-P.
[04:16] <pitti> you already said that :-)
[04:16] <Nafallo> ahh
[04:16] <Nafallo> I didn't know xchat handled interfaceswitching ;-)
[04:16] <Nafallo> (hence the recon)
[04:17] <Nafallo> /recon even
[04:17] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[04:20] <mako> Amaranth: hey
[04:20] <Amaranth> mako: long time at the park :P
[04:21] <mako> 04:18 < mako> Amaranth: hey there
[04:21] <Amaranth> oh, yeah
[04:21] <mako> that was 12 hours ago
[04:21] <Amaranth> 30min after i fell asleep
[04:21] <mako> you weren't around
[04:22] <Amaranth> so...
[04:23] <Amaranth> you think you have a solution to my key troubles? :)
[04:23] <Treenaks> Amaranth: your key troubles?
[04:23] <Amaranth> i have no way of getting it signed
[04:24] <Treenaks> Amaranth: where are you?
[04:24] <Amaranth> sioux city, ia
[04:24] <Amaranth> i already checked biglumber
[04:25] <Treenaks> Aren't there a lot of Debian people in IA?
[04:27] <Amaranth> not within 100mi of me, as far as i can see
[04:27] <Amaranth> doesn't matter though, if they're not in sioux city itself i can't get to them
[04:27] <Treenaks> Amaranth: organise some kind of gnome/ubuntu party and invite lots of people from everywhere ;)
[04:28] <Treenaks> GUADAC ;) or something
[04:28] <Amaranth> yeah, like my parents are going to like that...
[04:30] <Kamion> jk24: ok, it's a parted bug
[04:31] <jk24> Kamion, parted ?
[04:31] <Kamion> yes, parted
[04:31] <jk24> Kamion, why ,
[04:31] <jk24> ?
[04:31] <Kamion> because :-)
[04:31] <Kamion>         if (_have_devfs() && !strcmp (dev->path + path_len - 5, "/disc")) {
[04:31] <Kamion> that && should be ||
[04:32] <Nafallo> that's a typo ;-)
[04:32] <jk24> Kamion, is it parted that mount the partition ?
[04:32] <Mithrandir> !strcmp is such a terrible way to test for equality.
[04:32] <Kamion> no, but we use parted to get paths for partition devices
[04:32] <jk24> ok
[04:34] <winkle> ls
[04:34] <winkle> err
[04:34] <Kamion> actually might as well just drop the first half of the condition altogether
[04:35] <opi> winkle: we used to have wordkick for ls on one # once ;-D
[04:35] <mako> Amaranth: is there a lug in your town?
[04:35] <opi> hi mako
[04:35] <Amaranth> they say keysigning is a load of crap
[04:35] <mako> Amaranth: any sort of computer or free software community
[04:35] <mako> Amaranth: there only needs to be *one* person
[04:35] <mako> Amaranth: who has a signed key
[04:35] <jk24> Kamion, is there an cvs or an svn of ubuntu parted ?
[04:35] <Amaranth> asked on the mailing list, no one said they had one
[04:36] <Amaranth> all i got were replies saying keysigning was worthless
[04:36] <mako> sioux city is not *that* small.. i think it should be possible
[04:36] <mako> Amaranth: well, it's clearly not worthless to us
[04:36] <bob2> how does on pronounce "sioux", anyway?
[04:37] <Amaranth> soo
[04:37] <Kamion> jk24: no
[04:37] <Kamion> sorry
[04:37] <mako> bob2: like sue
[04:37] <bob2> mako: oh
[04:37] <bob2> mako: that's a little disappointing
[04:37] <Amaranth> thought it'd be more like suck? :)
[04:38] <bob2> I thought the X might have a more leading role
[04:38] <mako> good sci-fi name
[04:38] <jk24> Kamion, is there a src package of the partman+parted ?
[04:38] <mako> Amaranth: got any trips planned to anywhere else in the near future?
[04:38] <Amaranth> no
[04:38] <Kamion> jk24: all separate source packages, look in the archive
[04:39] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/
[04:39] <Kamion> it'll be fairly clear
[04:40] <bob2> offlineimap seems to lose the "replied-to" status on messages pretty frequently
[04:41] <pitti> yeah, I noticed that, too
[04:43] <Amaranth> so i'm screwed, right? :P
[04:43] <mako> Amaranth: i'm looking for something.. you should google, and such to try to find something
[04:45] <Lathiat> hmm, backports doesnt have sources
[04:45] <bob2> Lathiat: yup
[04:45] <Lathiat> thats fucked, any idea why ?
[04:45] <bob2> Lathiat: they say modifying the version and changelog doesn't require them to distribute  sources
[04:45] <bob2> uses too much disk
[04:45] <opi> bob2: :D
[04:46] <pitti> seb128: btw, do you edit patches in cdbs+tarball packages very often?
[04:46] <Lathiat> bob2: well, what license is debian/ under? :)
[04:46] <bob2> haha
[04:46] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: that varies.
[04:46] <mako> Amaranth: there may be other options but they are (a) substantially more work for everyone involved and (b) only possible after there's been a major demonstrated effort that a keysigning is impossible
[04:46] <seb128> pitti: I hate tarball in tarball so no, I don't have any such package
[04:47] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok. I wrote a script last week that works exactly like cdbs-edit-patch for tarball packages
[04:47] <pitti> seb128: maybe I even add it to cdbs-edit-patch proper
[04:47] <mako> Amaranth: i took a train from boston to providence to get my first signature :-/
[04:47] <seb128> good for you ;)
[04:48] <Amaranth> mako: as a jobless teenager living with his parents in this shit town, my options are a bit more limited :P
[04:48] <seb128> good idea, but jbailey is the cdbs maintainer if you need an ack to make the change :)
[04:48] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: write a talk an get sponsorship to a conference somewhere.
[04:48] <Lathiat> Amaranth: dont have a local lug with anyone interesting ?
[04:48] <Lathiat> i had a couple DDs in my lug
[04:48] <mako> Amaranth: i was a jobless teenerage at the time :-)
[04:48] <Lathiat> problem is i dont have a drivers license or passport
[04:48] <Lathiat> so gettin gmy key signed is practically impossible
[04:48] <Amaranth> Lathiat: no one in my lug seems to care about keysigning
[04:49] <mako> Lathiat: you can get a state ID
[04:49] <Lathiat> mako: in australia ?
[04:49] <mako> Lathiat: i'm sure
[04:49] <infinity> Lathiat : Australian states issue photo ID, yes.
[04:49] <infinity> Lathiat : It's just like a driver's license, but with no rights to drive.
[04:49] <Lathiat> infinity: really?
[04:49] <Kamion> passport can't be hard to get?
[04:49] <Lathiat> infinity: why didn't anyone ever tell me this
[04:49] <infinity> Lathiat : My girlfriend's little brother has one.
[04:49] <mako> Lathiat: right.. people need id sometimes and there's reason they need to learn to drive to get it :)
[04:49] <Lathiat> Kamion: yeh but there like $110
[04:49] <Kamion> !
[04:50] <Lathiat> which is money i do not have
[04:50] <Lathiat> and ive never been overseas to get one
[04:50] <mako> Amaranth: have you been trying to for a long time already.. i appears that you are giving up rather quickly
[04:50] <infinity> Lathiat : Which state are you in?
[04:51] <Lathiat> infinity: western australia
[04:51] <infinity> Lathiat : I know for a fact that VIC and QLD issue them, I'd assume they all do.
[04:51] <Amaranth> mako: about 6 months now
[04:51] <Amaranth> mako: i just don't have the means to get anywhere
[04:51] <Lathiat> i'll ring someone up and ask
[04:51] <Lathiat> infinity: any idea of cost
[04:51] <Amaranth> well, maybe only 4 or 5 months
[04:51] <spiv> In NSW, you can get a "Proof of Age" card instead of a licence, but only until you're 25.
[04:51] <spiv> http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/proofofage.html
[04:51] <infinity> Lathiat : Ask the dept of transport.  I believe they hande them (since it's the same photo process as a drivers' license, ubt without the licensing part)
[04:51] <Lathiat> proof of age afaik you need to be over 18
[04:51] <Lathiat> also
[04:51] <Lathiat> no one accepts them as ID
[04:51] <Lathiat> which is fucked, bu tthey dont
[04:52] <Lathiat> (unless you a night club or whatever)
[04:52] <spiv> Yes, and over 18, good point.
[04:52] <mako> Amaranth: so there are people in sioux falls and loads in omaha i suspect
[04:52] <Lathiat> see, im 17
[04:52] <Lathiat> i don tthink i raised thsi point
[04:52] <infinity> Ahh.
[04:52] <Lathiat> my entire problem is that im under 18
[04:52] <Lathiat> with no drivers license
[04:52] <Lathiat> and passport is $lots
[04:52] <Amaranth> mako: yeah, a couple in omaha
[04:52] <aj> Lathiat: so grow up, duh
[04:52] <infinity> Lathiat : At what age can you get a learner's license in WA?
[04:52] <infinity> Lathiat : You couldjust go write the written test and get one. :)
[04:52] <Lathiat> infinity: 17 something, i can get it now im just slack
[04:52] <aj> Lathiat: passport lasts 10 years though
[04:53] <Lathiat> aj: :)
[04:53] <mako> Amaranth: i mean, i can also look for debain developers.. and we can google for people who do gpg stuff.. sign their messages, wahtever
[04:53] <jbailey> pitti: If the patches are sane, I will not likely have any problems with them. =)
[04:53] <Lathiat> wtf did openoffice get a security update for
[04:54] <mako> Amaranth: i found one in sioux falls already
[04:54] <mako> Amaranth: which seems slightly closish
[04:54] <Amaranth> mako: i'd have a better chance of getting to omaha, actually
[04:54] <Riddell> elmo: what's the status of kdevelop?  it can't find kdevelop_3.2.1.orig.tar.gz
[04:55] <mako> Amaranth: ok
[04:56] <mako> Amaranth: sclinux.org is your lug?
[04:56] <Amaranth> anyone know why the pyxdg developer would get a 'pyxdg_0.13-0ubuntu1_source.changes REJECTED' email?
[04:56] <Amaranth> mako: yeah
[04:57] <infinity> Amaranth : Because you uploaded it to Debian instead of Ubuntu?
[04:57] <Amaranth> i didn't upload it anywhere
[04:57] <Amaranth> the only one that could have would be seb
[04:57] <infinity> (Or someone did)
[04:58] <mako> someone probably did
[04:58] <Amaranth> but why would it go to the pyxdg dev and not seb128?
[04:58] <infinity> It goes to the maintainer and the Changed-By, to catch as many eyes as possible.
[04:59] <Amaranth> he has nothing to do with debian though, he is a gentoo developer
[05:01] <Amaranth> mako: you can see in the mailing list archives that i finally went to them after trying to figure out what to do
[05:01] <Kamion> Amaranth: because somebody managed to upload pyxdg_0.13-0ubuntu1_source.changes to Debian, not to Ubuntu
[05:02] <Kamion> and Debian doesn't have a whitelist of whom it mails
[05:02] <Kamion> and somebody put him in the Maintainer: line
[05:02] <Kamion> wouldn't necessarily have been him
[05:03] <bob2> does the signed .changes go anywhere so people can see who signed it?
[05:03] <Kamion> it's not world-readable on newraff
[05:03] <Kamion> (crypto-in-main))
[05:04] <bob2> ah
[05:04] <wasabi_> So like...
[05:04] <wasabi_> Eclipse is uploaded.
[05:04] <wasabi_> Can we have a party?
[05:04] <bob2> wasabi_: does it run?
[05:04] <wasabi_> Depends what you mean by "run".
[05:04] <jk24> wasabi, eclipse is packaged ?
[05:04] <wasabi_> Also what you mean by "packaged".
[05:04] <bob2> uploading a 54MB source package that doesn't actually build anything usable seems a tad premature.
[05:04] <wasabi_> Oh it builds. And it launches.
[05:05] <wasabi_> Oh you said "usable?
[05:05] <wasabi_> heh.
[05:05] <ogra> wasabi_, so i can apt-get install it on my amd64 system and just launch it ?
[05:05] <wasabi_> no. ;0 There are a LOT of issues to work out still.
[05:05] <wasabi_> compiling for non-i386 is one of them.
[05:05] <Amaranth> why did you upload again? :)
[05:06] <wasabi_> So you can grab the source and help me fix it. Heh.
[05:06] <jk24> wasabi, pckaged as i can apt-get install it ?
[05:06] <bob2> jk24: except it's not usable
[05:06] <jk24> bob2, why ?
[05:07] <wasabi_> I see. Now I'm expected to explain why. ;)
[05:07] <bob2> jk24: I don't know
[05:07] <bob2> jk24: ask wasabi, he/she is the one who decided to upload it
[05:07] <jk24> wasabi, where can i found it (by curiosity)
[05:07] <wasabi_> What is your intent? To use it or to work on it?
[05:08] <jk24> wasabi, just to see
[05:08] <wasabi_> It's in breezy multiverse.
[05:08] <jk24> wasabi, ok
[05:08] <ogra> jk24, there are nice screenshots on the web :-P
[05:08] <bob2> multiverse? I thought you built it with free java?
[05:08] <wasabi_> bob2, eclipse 2 was in multiverse imported from Debian.
[05:09] <ogra> bob2, see the java spec on the udu wiki
[05:09] <seb128> Amaranth: is he subscribed to the PTS for the package?
[05:09] <wasabi_> It can be promoted, but there is no point until it works.
[05:09] <bob2> ogra: ah
[05:09] <ogra> bob2, there are some dependency issues that wont be solved before breezy
[05:10] <Amaranth> seb128: I don't know, he isn't answering. I doubt it though.
[05:11] <elmo> Riddell: err, what?
[05:11] <Amaranth> seb128: Oh, he is. That explains it.
[05:12] <seb128> yep
[05:12] <Riddell> elmo: kdevelop got rejected because it could fine kdevelop_3.2.1.orig.tar.gz but that file should already be uploaded
[05:12] <mjg59> ogra: Is it possible to export DMI information from the hwdb?
[05:13] <elmo> Riddell: the file isn't in the archive or in incoming
[05:13] <ogra> mjg59, hmm, yes, with some work.... i'll have to move it to the DC to a faster machine first, now that i have access
[05:14] <ogra> elmo, which mailadress is set for me for uploads now ? ogra@ubuntu.com ? 
[05:15] <elmo> ogra: *@ubuntu.com is whitelisted
[05:15] <ogra> great
[05:15] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool. I'll need a stack of DMI structures in order to sort out hotkey support.
[05:15] <ogra> elmo, i guess you need my updated key with the new adresses attached ?
[05:16] <elmo> ogra: not really
[05:16] <ogra> oki, great :)
[05:16] <Nafallo> ogra: there where plans to be able to update records that's already there? ;-)
[05:17] <Nafallo> ogra: I had backup of the dotfile and have repartitioned stuff :-P
[05:17] <Lathiat> mjg59: DMI?
[05:17] <ogra> mjg59, i wont come around to do that this week, today is my screensaver day and i have to merge some hal patches before i can think about hwdb...
[05:17] <ogra> Lathiat, BIOS data
[05:17] <Lathiat> ogra: ah
[05:17] <ogra> Lathiat, sudo dmidecode
[05:18] <Lathiat> oh wow cool
[05:18] <mjg59> ogra: Yup, that's no problem - I'm in no huge hurry
[05:18] <ogra> Lathiat, its also in hal
[05:18] <Lathiat> yeh i noticed of late
[05:18] <ogra> Lathiat, in the BIOS device in hal-device-manager (in hoary)
[05:19] <Lathiat> dont see anything about hotkeys but?
[05:19] <ogra> Lathiat, laptop ?
[05:19] <Lathiat> yeh
[05:19] <Riddell> elmo: is kdevelop in morgue?
[05:19] <ogra> which model ?
[05:20] <Lathiat> dell inspiron 8600
[05:20] <ogra> does it have hotkeys ? 
[05:20] <seb128> JaneW: I spoke about GnomePanelEnhancements with gnome-panel's upstream. The spec is a draft, we had no BOF about it and most of the point are going to happen upstream or a bad ideas. Should I mark the spec as "Deferred" or maybe discuss it with a mail on the list?
[05:20] <Lathiat> eh
[05:20] <Lathiat> yeh
[05:20] <Lathiat> i have volume down, up, mute, plauy, stop , previous, next
[05:20] <Lathiat> or is that not 'hotkeys' ?
[05:21] <elmo>   kdevelop | 4:2.1.5.1-7 | hoary/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[05:21] <elmo> ^-- Riddell:
[05:21] <elmo>   kdevelop | 4:2.1.5.1-7 | warty/universe | source, amd64, i386
[05:21] <elmo> Riddell: and you have an account, you can run find/ on the morgue, it's on rookery
[05:21] <Riddell> good point
[05:21] <KaiL> do we still need kdevelop 2.x?
[05:21] <JaneW> seb128: yes it sounds like a deferred to me, however I would prefer mdz, kamion or the list to support that decision as well...
[05:22] <Riddell> KaiL: it's a rename of kdevelop3 -> kdevelop
[05:22] <bob2> kdevelop has been epochoed 4 times?
[05:22] <seb128> JaneW: k, I'll mail the list with my comments on the Spec, thanks
[05:22] <Riddell> bob2: the whole of KDE has been epoched 4 times, all < 2000 I think
[05:22] <bob2> Riddell: ah, wow
[05:23] <Nafallo> mjg59: hmm, Max Speed: 2500MHz. does that mean my processor hates me and only thinks it can do max 1600MHz?
[05:23] <mjg59> Nafallo: What sort of machine do you have?
[05:23] <Nafallo> mjg59: amd64 laptop, targa.
[05:23] <mjg59> Nafallo: Cheap hardware often has complete lies in the DMI information
[05:23] <Nafallo> mjg59: hehe, dang ;-)
[05:23] <JaneW> seb128: thanks, feel free to update the goals page with deferred for now, pre-emptively ;)
[05:23] <Lathiat> Nafallo: haha
[05:24] <Nafallo> mjg59: thanx anyway :-)
[05:24] <mjg59> For CPUs, it can often be the maximum speed the motherboard will support
[05:24] <seb128> JaneW: ok
[05:24] <Nafallo> dooh :-P
[05:25] <Nafallo> mjg59: hmm. I see what you mean by lying ;-). 512+256 != 1024 last time I checked :-P.
[05:26] <Riddell> well I'm confused, kdevelop has disappeared
[05:26] <seb128> JaneW: about MenuEditor, GNOME will ship a simple menu editor with its desktop for 2.12 and Amaranth has smeg ... any reason to keep that on the bounty/spec lists? The spec is really light...
[05:27] <Amaranth> hey, i could take it as a bounty ;)
[05:27] <seb128> s/has smeg/is working on smeg/
[05:27] <seb128> ah ah
[05:31] <ogra> a ticket to the nearest next keysigning party
[05:31] <ogra> ;)
[05:32] <Nafallo> hehe
[05:33] <Riddell> elmo: kdevelop's .orig was definatly uploaded and compiled, any idea how to find out what's happened?
[05:33] <JaneW> seb128: so will that be something tracked for Breezy at all or not?
[05:33] <seb128> we already have the GNOME one in main, which is a simple one
[05:34] <seb128> and Amaranth has planned to maintain his one to universe afaik
[05:34] <ogra> and we want to avoid redundancys
[05:34] <seb128> so imho that's a "Completed" spec
[05:34] <Amaranth> yeah, that's the plan
[05:35] <Amaranth> was hoping it would be my path to MOTU, but without a signed key that's worthless, so someone else can do it ;)
[05:35] <seb128> why?
[05:35] <seb128> you can find a sponsor
[05:36] <Amaranth> that's what i mean
[05:36] <Amaranth> i have debs that are good and all
[05:38] <seb128> Amaranth: have you talked with motu guys? 
[05:39] <seb128> I'm sure it can be reviewed by 3 people today and uploaded
[05:39] <Amaranth> seb128: will do
[05:39] <Amaranth> well
[05:39] <Riddell> Amaranth: poke me if you want
[05:39] <Amaranth> i need pyxdg 0.13 in main first
[05:39] <seb128> I've uploaded it this morning
[05:39] <seb128> dunno why it's not built
[05:40] <Amaranth> it went to debian?
[05:40] <Amaranth> Riddell: aside from using gtk this thing is pretty nice for kde too :)
[05:40] <seb128> no, this one got rejected
[05:40] <seb128> then I uploaded to ubuntu :)
[05:41] <elmo> Riddell: 298752
[05:41] <elmo> (in Debian)
[05:42] <elmo> we track Debian removals
[05:43] <Riddell> elmo: ah hah, is it possible to override that?
[05:43] <elmo> Riddell: why would you want to follow the Debian package naming?
[05:43] <elmo> wouldn't
[05:44] <Riddell> elmo: because a significant number of people have asked me not to, and I agree with them that it's confusing
[05:44] <elmo> have you talked with the debian maintainer about it?
[05:44] <Riddell> elmo: no response from him yet
[05:44] <Riddell> but the other debian-kde devels sugge
[05:45] <Riddell> but the other debian-kde devels suggest it's because they don't want the NEW queue
[05:45] <Riddell> or they would change it
[05:45] <seb128> lame excuse
[05:45] <seb128> NEW is quite fast nowadays
[05:47] <seb128> elmo: do you have an idea of where is hidding pyxdg 0.13?
[05:47] <elmo> Riddell: I tend to agree with seb; and I'm worried about random divergence on the basis of something like that
[05:48] <elmo> if you rename the package, all our sync tracking and MOM stuff breaks
[05:48] <elmo> Riddell: but in any event, if you really want to go ahead, just reupload iwth the orig.tar.gz (-sa to dpkg-buildpackage, or upload it byhand after uploading the package)
[05:49] <elmo> seb128: ah, katie broke.  yay
[05:49] <Riddell> elmo: what's MOM?
[05:50] <elmo> Riddell: your MOM.
[05:50] <elmo> or Merge-O-Matic, take your pick
[05:50] <Evaso> hi guys, i want try to backport somthing from ubuntu gnome-system-tools 1.2.0 in ubuntu to fix the modem applet problem permission with debian, anybody can help me?
[05:50] <Riddell> elmo: right.  I'll discuss it with amu and make a decision, thanks for the info
[05:51] <seb128> Evaso: I don't get the question
[05:51] <seb128> which one works and which one is to fix?
[05:52] <Evaso> seb128: on ubuntu works fine but on debian normal user, also if they are in the dip group, cannot start the connection with modem applet
[05:52] <\sh> elmo: can u give me a pointer to this MoM tool?
[05:53] <Amaranth> \sh: it runs automatically, files bug reports on packages that need manual merging, etc
[05:53] <seb128> Evaso: look on debian/patches for the ubuntu packages, the patches are here
[05:53] <infinity> \sh : http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
[05:54] <\sh> Amaranth: i'm more interessted what software is behind :)
[05:55] <elmo> seb128: fixed, now, should appear in next cron.daily, sorry baout that
[05:55] <seb128> elmo: np, thanks for fixing it
[05:55] <elmo> \sh: AFAIK the software isn't public ATM
[05:55] <Evaso> seb128: here?
[05:56] <seb128> debian/patches
[05:56] <\sh> elmo: it's not http://www.inmaps.com/MOM.htm ?
[05:56] <elmo> \sh: I doubt it
[05:57] <Evaso> seb128: in the source package?
[05:58] <daniels> Mithrandir: thanks
[05:58] <seb128> correct
[05:59] <elmo> .go daniels 
[05:59] <daniels> Kamion: libxp6 should have if nothing depends on it, yes
[05:59] <daniels> elm	?
[05:59] <elmo> (it's your birthday)
[05:59] <elmo> daniels: s#.#/# and you have an irssi command :/
[05:59] <daniels> Kamion: don't know about libxkbui off the top of my head, would have to check it
[06:00] <Evaso> seb128: probably could be this: +  * debian/patches/19_fix_initial_ppp:
[06:00] <Evaso> +    - fix the problem that g-s-t does not set "noauth" for newly 
[06:00] <Evaso> +      created connections?
[06:00] <seb128> Evaso: dunno, should ask to mvo rather, he worked on that
[06:01] <\sh> damn
[06:02] <\sh> looks like I have to work on all this ocaml stuff
[06:04] <Riddell> \sh: finish python-kde first :)
[06:05] <\sh> give me 5 mins for ocaml ;)
[06:05] <\sh> and then i need an main upper ;)
[06:06] <mvo> ping doko 
[06:06] <\sh> jo
[06:06] <Evaso> mvo: do u know this bug?
[06:06] <doko> mvo: pong
[06:08] <\sh> Depends: libncurses5-dev, ocaml-base-nox (=${Source-Version}), ocaml-base-nox-3.08.3, ocaml-interp-3.08.3
[06:08] <\sh> what is this? ocaml-base-nox-3.08.3 is a Provides in the same package :(
[06:08] <pitti> jbailey: still no luck with ocaml for cdbs, btw?
[06:09] <\sh> hmm......
[06:09] <\sh> nice
[06:10] <jbailey> pitti: I should give it another try.  Last time the build-deps were confused because of X.
[06:10] <\sh> doko: all packages depending on ocaml should compile now with gcc-3.4? cause base is ftbfs with gcc4?
[06:10] <pitti> jbailey: what do you use ocaml for in cdbs?
[06:11] <jbailey> Generating a graph, IIRC.
[06:11] <doko> \sh, I didn't look too hard at ocaml, but that looks like an interim solution
[06:11] <jbailey> I could just stub that out, I doubt anyone looks at the one shred of documentation we ever did include. =)
[06:12] <\sh> doko: i'm checking now the bug db of ocaml...cause there is at least one pack which depends on it
[06:13] <ska-fan> Hmm, what's a media player in ubuntu that can play the guadec videos without stuttering sound and without frame drops?
[06:13] <Nafallo> ska-fan: totem-xine
[06:14] <kent> ska-fan, this channel is for development-related questions though..
[06:14] <mvo> Evaso: modem-applet?
[06:14] <Nafallo> ska-fan: what kent said. #ubuntu for userquestions.
[06:16] <trulux> doko: heya
[06:16] <trulux> doko: just talked to pitt, and he said we could provide a SSP-enabled gcc-3.3 in Breezy
[06:17] <trulux> doko: what do you think= It would be just to forward copy the 3.4 patches to 3.3 debian/patches/
[06:17] <trulux> and then enable the protector one and the rest
[06:17] <thom> jbailey: dude, so we were wondering when cdbs will have mail handling
[06:18] <jbailey> *mail handling*?
[06:18] <ska-fan> Is there an #ubuntu-lounge or something like that that is not restricted to dev talk and not so crowded with people like #ubuntu?
[06:18] <thom> it seems like the logical next step ;-)
[06:18] <Mithrandir> jbailey: cdbs should so be able to read mail.
[06:19] <jbailey> The GNU coding standards say that all good apps should include a pop3 client, IIRC.
[06:19] <Mithrandir> jbailey: pop3?  We want IMAP, dude.
[06:19] <thom> and TLS support
[06:19] <Mithrandir> yeah.  And a lisp interpreter.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> (did I say that out loud?)
[06:20] <thom> and a windowing system
[06:20] <jbailey> dilinger: HMm.  Should we rewrite cdbs2 in guile? 
[06:20] <zul> visual basic is better
[06:20] <Mithrandir> thom: X server in the build system?  Won't that be going a bit overboard?
[06:20] <jbailey> zul: I suspect it won't compiler on hppa, don't want to annoy lamont.
[06:20] <thom> Mithrandir: nah, it'll be fun
[06:21] <zul> jbailey: lamont is easy to annoy and so much fun
[06:21] <lamont__> jbailey: ??
[06:21] <zul> lamont: just making sure you were awake :)
[06:21] <zul> heh
[06:21] <jbailey> lamont__: We were talking about you, not to you... ;P
[06:22] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I want tetris too, when the builds take too long.
[06:22] <Nafallo> Mithrandir++
[06:22] <ogra> thom, cdbsgtk ? 
[06:23] <thom> ogra: cdbswm ;-)
[06:23] <ogra> hehe
[06:23] <lamont__> kobo-deluxe, not tetris Mithrandir 
[06:23] <infinity> wasabi : That java/gjdoc stuff should all be sorting itself out now.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> lamont__: both!
[06:23] <Nafallo> is the kobo-stuff in main? ;-)
[06:23] <jbailey> Anyone here remember bimodem?  So you could chat with the sysop when you did your uploads / downloads?
[06:24] <zul> uh no
[06:24] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes.  And upload and download at the same time.
[06:25] <doko> trulux: let's have gcc-3.3 in universe first. it's still used as a build-dependency on some packages
[06:26] <\sh> jbailey: zmodem, bimodem, x and y modem :) 
[06:26] <\sh> sometimes I'm using it :)
[06:28] <pitti> Hi lamont__ 
[06:32] <mdz> morning
[06:33] <Nafallo> morning mdz :-)
[06:33] <Nafallo> thom: how up to date is your networkmanager repo? builds on amd64?
[06:34] <dilinger> jbailey: it may be better to include a guile interpreter in cdbs2, and have the individual modules written in guile.  oh, and the interpreter can be written in ruby.
[06:37] <thom> Nafallo: totally not up to date
[06:37] <thom> don't touch it
[06:37] <thom> as soon as i get some licensing issues cleared up it'll be in the archive
[06:38] <Nafallo> thom: oki.
[06:39] <pitti> Hi mdz
[06:39] <pitti> mdz: could you subscribe to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue ? I approved a few packages today, with a subscription you would be auto-notified
[06:41] <mdz> pitti: cool, will do
[06:43] <Simira> maswan: I forgot to cc the mail to you. But Tollef's birthday party will be next saturday. You're making him a cake, remember?
[07:27] <KaiL> new nvidia driver - droped compatibility for older hardware :(
[07:46] <dieman> hey
[07:46] <dieman> why hasn't a udev related note been added to the hoary release notes yet?
[07:46] <dieman> about linking in the cd-aliases.rules link.
[08:09] <{Seb}> hey all
[08:10] <{Seb}> btw, what happened in the backports meeting
[08:11] <ogra> {Seb}, there will be minutes... 
[08:11] <{Seb}> i know
[08:11] <{Seb}> i read through them
[08:11] <{Seb}> the IRC logs but I can't see what the solution is/was
[08:12] <{Seb}> ogra: can you give me the basics?
[08:12] <ogra> {Seb}, not now, sorry, i'm terribly busy
[08:12] <{Seb}> ogra: one question, is mono 1.1.7 going or staying?
[08:13] <{Seb}> ogra: i'm a beagle hacker :-)
[08:13] <{Seb}> and this could decide my future with ubuntu
[08:13] <tseng> i told him to leave it for now
[08:13] <{Seb}> hey tseng
[08:13] <ogra> {Seb}, it waits for some dependencys and will be in the default install in breezy
[08:13] <{Seb}> i mean mono in backports
[08:13] <ogra> given that its stable enough
[08:14] <Nafallo> {Seb}: what tseng said
[08:14] <tseng> but its still wrong.
[08:14] <{Seb}> tseng: i saw my name got dragged into it
[08:14] <tseng> i think I said you added that stuff on the beagle wiki about backports
[08:14] <tseng> was all
[08:14] <tseng> and that i failed to explain to you why the backport is broken
[08:14] <Kamion> tseng: oh, I might not have told you, I figured out late last night what was up with beagle/amd64 building
[08:14] <{Seb}> yep :-)
[08:14] <tseng> Kamion: ah sweet!
[08:14] <Kamion> tseng: it's an X bug - libxss-dev doesn't depend on libxss1
[08:15] <Kamion> tseng: I told daniels about it
[08:15] <tseng> Kamion: thanks!
[08:15] <tseng> nice catch.
[08:15] <{Seb}> well
[08:15] <{Seb}> bye all
[08:15] <Kamion> (so libXss.so was a dangling symlink)
[08:16] <tseng> grr seb
[08:19] <Nafallo> Kamion: rsync -rLtvz would work to bring the symlinks to universe into main and drop universe from my local mirror?
[08:19] <mdz> wasabi: around?
[08:19] <Nafallo> Kamion: or should I use -rLtvHz?
[08:25] <Nafallo> s/to/from/
[08:27] <Kamion> Nafallo: you may need to do two passes
[08:28] <Kamion> Nafallo: see bin/anonftpsync in colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0 (http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005)
[08:28] <Nafallo> oki
[08:28] <Nafallo> Kamion: thanx
[08:39] <jnc> what's going on w/ libgtkhtml?
[08:39] <jnc> libgtkhtml20 -> libgtkhtml2-0
[08:39] <jnc> i don't understand that
[08:40] <jnc> err it's universe
[08:40] <jnc> hmm
[08:45] <jnc> i think, nevermind what i was asking.    it's just that gnucash depends on some version of libgtkhtml that is no longer in breezy, and also a version of libofx which has been obsoleted
[08:45] <srbaker> who do i speak to about the ubuntu bounties applicable for google soc?
[08:46] <jnc> i hacked it up a bit and now it's working, so that's not anything i would say is bug-worthy
[08:48] <philipacamaniac> Can I get someone to check my first deb package for errors or outstanding issues? It is at http://philipandjenny.com/wp-content/kubuntu-pkgmenu_1.3-0ubuntu1.deb
[08:49] <Treenaks> philipacamaniac: have you run it through linda and lintian?
[08:49] <philipacamaniac> I ran it through lintian, but I don't know linda
[08:49] <philipacamaniac> lemme do that
[08:50] <philipacamaniac> lintian was clean (for the most part)
[08:51] <philipacamaniac> linda outputs nada
[08:51] <uniq> you have to provide the source and the diff.
[08:52] <philipacamaniac> okay, well, that's the thing - it's just a shell script. what is my source? The shell script?
[08:53] <uniq> yes.. the source you use to build the package.
[08:54] <philipacamaniac> okay so pretty much just a orig.tar.gz with the original files
[08:55] <philipacamaniac> thanks
[08:56] <mdz> jnc: if it's uninstallable, that's a bug, and should be reported to malone
[09:00] <syndicate> I'm trying to build a .deb out of the fedora directory server, I am almost there, but it is looking for svrcore.h which should be a part of mozilla security stuff
[09:00] <syndicate> does anyone have anything I can look for?
[09:00] <doko> syndicate: packages.ubuntu.com, search for the file
[09:01] <syndicate> dang
[09:01] <syndicate> not on there
[09:01] <syndicate> I guess I am stuck
[09:03] <wasabi_> Eclipse runs.
[09:03] <wasabi_> UnF.
[09:05] <wasabi_> Okay! Uploaded!
[09:06] <newz2000> I'm running into troubles using the new kickstart feature and not finding much help outside of one page in the wiki... Can anyone here help?
[09:06] <wasabi_> I need somebody to do an upload of java-common to main for me.
[09:06] <wasabi_> http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/java-common
[09:15] <philipacamaniac> uniq: Do I create a separate debian source package, with packagename.orig.tar.gz and packagename.dsc as the contents?
[09:18] <mdz> wasabi_: the new ecj-bootstrap uploaded today added unsatisfiable build-dependencies; we've tried to fix things up and hopefully it will retry soon
[09:18] <mdz> meanwhile that whole stack is still blocked
[09:18] <wasabi_> was that my fault or somebody elses?
[09:18] <wasabi_> i dont remember what i did last night
[09:18] <mdz> dunno, I think both you and doko uploaded it recently
[09:19] <wasabi_> k. I have uploaded a new eclipse which builds and launches and works.
[09:19] <Nafallo> baz seems great. my-id: invalid id (...) :-P
[09:19] <wasabi_> And is suitable for main as far as I can tell. I need to go thru the entire dep tree.
[09:19] <srbaker> wasabi, where can i download eclipse packages?
[09:20] <wasabi_> multiverse.
[09:20] <srbaker> wasabi, and does RDT work with it?
[09:20] <wasabi_> RDT?
[09:20] <srbaker> really?  wow
[09:20] <srbaker> rubyeclipse.sf.net
[09:20] <wasabi_> no clue. There is a lot of work to be done.
[09:20] <srbaker> ahh
[09:20] <wasabi_> On supporting plugins, etc.
[09:20] <wasabi_> It does load plugins from /usr/local/share/eclipse
[09:20] <srbaker> well, i'll keep using sun's java until it's working with RDT properly
[09:20] <wasabi_> What does RDT do?
[09:20] <wasabi_> Chances are if it's just a plugin and stuff, it'll work fine.
[09:21] <wasabi_> If it's doing some crazy stuff, it might not. ;0
[09:21] <srbaker> it's ruby support
[09:21] <doko> wasabi_: it needs a sync from experimental, which will become possible in about 30 minutes.
[09:21] <wasabi_> I know nothing about ruby. How is it called from Eclipse?
[09:21] <wasabi_> JNI? Or just launching hte binary?
[09:21] <wasabi_> etc etc... that is the stuff that matters.
[09:21] <srbaker> wasabi, it calls the bin
[09:21] <srbaker> hrm.  there don't seem to be prices listed with the ubuntu bounties
[09:21] <wasabi_> doko, okay. My changes might already be in experimental. I have no idea who is keeping track of what on the Debian side.
[09:21] <srbaker> i'm trying to figure out if i can afford to spend my whole summer working my ass off on bounties
[09:22] <Amaranth> srbaker: If you mean for Google then it's them that pays you.
[09:22] <srbaker> Amaranth, no, not google.  i'm not a student.
[09:22] <srbaker> USD $4500 would be more than enough to make it worthwhile, though
[09:24] <wasabi_> mdz, should I be adding myself to the technicalboardagenda for main consideration?
[09:24] <wasabi_> or is there another more appropiate place to put it
[09:25] <mdz> wasabi_: ask ogra or someone else from MOTU for guidance on the process
[09:25] <wasabi_> yeah he said to do that. ;)
[09:25] <wasabi_> just making sure!
[09:26] <mdz> yay, ecj-bootstrap built
[09:27] <mdz> srbaker: submit a proposal to me with a price
[09:28] <doko> mdz, wasabi: ecj-bootstrap failed, because libant1.6-java is in universe
[09:29] <mdz> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/ecj-bootstrap/3.0.1-3/ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_20050602-2014-i386-successful.gz
[09:30] <doko> ohh, yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html was just updated
[09:31] <srbaker> mdz, will do.  would it be acceptable to combine a few into one price?
[09:31] <srbaker> mdz, i want to do system config tools and the simple backup solution one
[09:31] <syndicate> If I wanted to file a bug against mozilla to be updated to provide the libsvrcore stuff, where would I do it?  In the universe bugzilla or the main one?
[09:32] <srbaker> and maybe a third
[09:32] <mdz> srbaker: it is preferable (I expect for both of us, in the end) to keep them separate
[09:32] <srbaker> okay
[09:32] <mdz> if we lumped them together, it would be all-or-nothing for all of them
[09:32] <srbaker> okay, that's faie
[09:32] <srbaker> fair
[09:32] <srbaker> python is the preferred devel language, right?
[09:33] <mdz> correct
[09:40] <Nafallo> Kamion: dang. lot's of usefull stuff in there. would you like a kiss or something? :-)
[09:43] <mdz> Riddell: are you around?  your last commit broke the kubuntu seed archive
[09:44] <mdz> Riddell: you need to fix your umask to allow group writability, and chmod -R g+w /home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--breezy/seeds--breezy--0
[09:44] <uniq> i think he's out.. said something about handing out cds.
[09:56] <shaya> is there an issue w/ regular keyboard input in X now? (not ctrl-combos) I just restarted X and can't do any keyboard (as opposed to mouse which works fine) in X besides for ctrl-alt-backspace to kill it
[10:10] <Zomb> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/../../../crt1.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
[10:10] <Zomb> does anyone have an idea about what is going wrong there?
[10:10] <Zomb> debsums does not display any faults
[10:11] <Amaranth> seb128: pyxdg 0.14 is out, smeg needs it. Sorry about all these updates. :)
[10:11] <Nafallo> Amaranth: lol
[10:12] <Nafallo> Amaranth: will you ever put smeg in the archive? ;-)
[10:12] <Amaranth> Nafallo: working on getting it into universe right now
[10:12] <Amaranth> just need 0.14 to go with smeg 0.7.4 and it should be good
[10:13] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:13] <Nafallo> Amaranth: tomorrow you will want 0.15 to got with smeg 0.7.5 ;-)
[10:13] <Amaranth> no no, i'm done :P
[10:13] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:14] <seb128> Amaranth: uploaded
[10:14] <syndicate> this retarded piece of shit
[10:14] <syndicate> !
[10:14] <Amaranth> damn, that was fast
[10:15] <syndicate> ok, this make file forces a specific installation directory, how can you make a deb of this
[10:16] <seb128> Amaranth: yeah, users want smeg :p
[10:16] <seb128> I don't want to make them angry :)
[10:17] <Amaranth> seb128: I have users?
[10:17] <seb128> apparently yep
[10:18] <seb128> since some new user keep asking how to edit menu, and some other keep pointing smeg
[10:18] <Amaranth> gnome-menus (>= 2.10) | kdelibs-data (>= 3.4) is the right way to depend on one or the other, right?
[10:23] <herve> hi
[10:23] <herve> seb128, ping
[10:24] <Zomb> forget it, broken binutils caused that problem
[10:26] <seb128> herve: pong
[10:26] <seb128> Amaranth: yep
[10:27] <herve> seb128, there's a new dia in debian I'd like to merge
[10:27] <herve> seb128, mind I provide you a package to upload?
[10:27] <seb128> not at all
[10:27] <seb128> thank you for your work on it :)
[10:28] <seb128> herve: you can use verbiste from debian/experimental, it works fine with GNOME 2.10
[10:28] <seb128> herve: it's not synced yet for ubuntu due to the CXX transition
[10:29] <herve> nice to hear, thanks
[10:29] <seb128> np
[10:34] <herve> seb128, hmm... it makes the panel hang
[10:34] <seb128> oh?
[10:39] <Nafallo> maswan: ping
[10:41] <Amaranth> seb128: You should let me take the MenuEditor bounty as a part of Google's Summer of Code. :)
[10:41] <seb128> Amaranth: I'm not handling bounties ....
[10:41] <Amaranth> seb128: Yeah, but you said to drop it.
[10:42] <dieman> heh
[10:43] <dieman> even though its not a bounty, im interested int helping out with NetworkWideUpdates
[10:43] <seb128> yeah, gnome-menus ships one, there is an another one on the GNOME CVS, and there is smeg which is opensource
[10:43] <seb128> I don't think we need to bounty that objectively
[10:43] <seb128> dieman: nice
[10:46] <dieman> its something i really need
[10:47] <dieman> i do it in a very non-auditable way right now, im never really, really sure all the machines are up to date
[10:47] <dieman> im fairly sure.
[10:48] <herve> seb128: panel hang is reproducible
[10:48] <herve> even after reboot
[10:48] <seb128> herve: utch
[10:48] <seb128> when does that happen?
[10:49] <seb128> remove the package to fix it?
[10:49] <herve> it happens when I add the applet
[10:49] <herve> the panel hangs and is likely to crash
[10:50] <herve> when I manually kill it, gnome question about reloading it is hung too
[10:51] <herve> no, a kill -9 puts it to reason :-)
[10:54] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[10:55] <herve> seb128, found it: I had not updated verbiste-gnome... :-)
[10:55] <herve> seb128, let me suggest strict dependencies!
[10:55] <pitti> hi
[10:55] <herve> hi pitty
[10:56] <dieman> wow
[10:56] <dieman> arch is cool
[10:57] <dieman> finally forced myself to use it
[10:57] <herve> yes it is
[10:58] <Amaranth> you're using baz and not tla, right?
[10:58] <pitti> dieman: yes, once you get used to it you'll love it :-)
[10:59] <dieman> Amaranth: yeah
[10:59] <dieman> i tried using tla and got the dreaded 'arch_archive_connect: attempt to connect to incompatible archive'
[10:59] <dieman> and found this page: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-kernel-2005-03-17.html
[10:59] <dieman> which was essentialy fabbione saying to use baz :)
[10:59] <Amaranth> so, someone had a good idea on what to do with gnome and cvs
[10:59] <Amaranth> migrate to subversion and mirror in baz
[11:00] <Amaranth> baz mirror is read-only
[11:01] <pitti> dieman: baz is *much* easier to live with
[11:01] <herve> but tla and baz use the same archive format?
[11:03] <Nafallo> pitti: oh yea? my-id: invalid id
[11:03] <Nafallo> pitti: ;-)
[11:03] <dieman> heh
[11:03] <pitti> herve: not really
[11:03] <pitti> herve: baz can read, write and create the tla format, but its native format is different
[11:03] <pitti> Nafallo: erm, and the same id works with tla?
[11:04] <Nafallo> pitti: dunno. never used tla.
[11:04] <herve> pitti: good, that way is enough for me
[11:04] <Nafallo> pitti: I'm new to all those rc-systems ;-)
[11:04] <pitti> Nafallo: an user id must look like "Name <email>"
[11:04] <dieman> hmm
[11:04] <Nafallo> pitti: did that. probably doesn't like  :-P.
[11:05] <herve> Nafallo, yes, I had to forget the diacritics of my name
[11:05] <pitti> Nafallo: oh yes, these beasts still have serious trouble with non-ascii chars
[11:05] <dieman> it seems like NetworkWideUpdates is a bit less than I hoped for at the moment.  Mostly helps out people who don't already have a file distribution and command execution infrastructure of their 'pile of machines'
[11:05] <Nafallo> dang. I have to go with Bjalevik then ;-)
[11:06] <Nafallo> or change name :-P
[11:08] <herve> seb128, I forget about dia for now, it's caught in the fire of cxx transition
[11:09] <ajmitch> dieman: what do you want NetworkWideUpdates to be? pushing updates to a group of machines?
[11:10] <dieman> ajmitch: i really should sit down and think about it more, right now i do similar to whats proposed with cfengine by running certain apt commands periodically.
[11:10] <seb128> herve: k
[11:10] <wasabi_> I have really given a lot of consideration to a Apt network update system. I have a lot of ideas. ;)
[11:11] <dieman> what im interested in is having profiles of machines and having an agent try and bring machines close to that profile and alert me when it can't.
[11:11] <wasabi_> Actually I started working on something awhile ago.
[11:11] <herve> wasabi_, thanks for eclipse 3.0 by the way!
[11:11] <wasabi_> np
[11:11] <wasabi_> it work for you?
[11:11] <wasabi_> It's totally unbuilt.
[11:11] <dieman> either meaning that the packages are broken in some way, or that some security update isn't making it out there.
[11:11] <wasabi_> But you can build it yourself!
[11:11] <herve> haven't tried yet
[11:11] <dieman> (checking versions and packages installed)
[11:12] <dieman> on top of the profile, having allowed exceptions for certain machines and alerting to additional packages manually installed would be nice so I know if another administrator or one of our 'administrator users' is using extra software.
[11:12] <dieman> so I have a good idea of what software we need to be sure to support in the future, etc.
[11:12] <wasabi_> my apt update idea:   A daemon that simply manages an apt mirror.
[11:12] <wasabi_> The daemon (thru a web interface) provides an interface to view what updates are proposed, and accept or reject them.
[11:13] <wasabi_> Or schedule them.
[11:13] <Nafallo> Kamion: ping
[11:13] <dieman> staging systems like that would be nifty
[11:13] <wasabi_> That's what MS does.
[11:13] <wasabi_> Basically.
[11:13] <dieman> especially if we can have the staff machines test updates
[11:13] <wasabi_> The client machines simply apt-get update on a schedule. Reporting information could be sent to the server.
[11:13] <dieman> and then the rest of the machines.
[11:14] <wasabi_> I was going to do it in Mono.
[11:14] <wasabi_> Back when I last thought about it.
[11:15] <Nafallo> hmm, off for the evening it was.
[11:15] <wasabi_> pretty easy to implement actually.
[11:24] <lifeless> Kamion: ping
[11:26] <Nafallo> lifeless: he's off for the evening since som hours ago.
[11:27] <lifeless> ah
[11:27] <lifeless> probly moving some more foo
[11:29] <pitti> jbailey: yay cdbs, thanks
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: ^ that means that we now should get nice pot files for your gnome uploads :-)
[11:30] <seb128> rock!
[11:30] <dieman> ajmitch: did you catch any of that, or should we get some people together and brainstorm issues? :)
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: so please upload the whole gnome now, kthxbye
[11:31] <dieman> haha
[11:31] <pitti> ;-)
[11:33] <jbailey> pitti: Yup.  And if anyone asks why the shred of docs there were there is now gone, I'll give'em your number ;)
[11:33] <pitti> cdbs had docs? *duck*
[11:33] <jbailey> pitti: Well it had a graph that noone looked at.
[11:33] <jbailey> lifeless: Who's the packager?
[11:34] <lifeless> brett cunly
[11:34] <jbailey> lifeless: Is this an upload targetted at Sarge?
[11:34] <lifeless> sorrru cundal
[11:34] <lifeless> no, sid
[11:35] <lifeless> gnu smalltalk is a year old, and it doesn't need to be.
[11:35] <jbailey> Sure, I can do it.  Is he planning to take it over, or just do a single update?
[11:36] <lifeless> hes been at this for a while, so I think is in it for the long haul : http://www.cundal.net/debian/
[11:36] <lifeless> (Hes the current maintainer FWIW)
[11:41] <ajmitch> dieman: I caught some of that, and I think it should be written down somewhere :)
[11:42] <dieman> ajmitch: ok
[11:42] <dieman> i'll write down that i should either harass the mailing list or make up a wiki entry
[11:42] <dieman> about the idea
[11:42] <dieman> i dont expect it to be a breezy goal, etc.
[11:43] <dieman> i've got an idea from my experiences here, but i need to find other desktop admins and figure out how they've been doing things
[11:44] <dieman> i've not met many people handling 50+ desktops (let alone nearly 300)
[11:45] <lifeless> 50 is on the low side for an admin, should be > 100 per admin even with windows
[11:47] <doko> elmo: lib32z1-dev and lib32z1 are NEW and should be moved to main. ia32-libs now depends on lib32z1, gcc-4.0 will build-depend on lib32z1-dev