=== allee [~ach@allee.exgal.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dand [~dand@83.103.205.136] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ezequiel [~ezequiel@host41.201-252-94.telecom.net.ar] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] hi ppl [12:46] how can I create a .deb? [12:46] ezequiel: google for the debian new maintainer's guide [12:47] Amaranth, thanks [12:50] 'cause I'd like to have my own anjuta2 deb =) long life anjuta2! === moyogo [~moyogo@69.156.160.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:51] (I still remember when it was just scaffold) === NetGeek [~dbasinge@xlaptop166.lib.utah.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont__ [~lamont@15.238.5.156] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:11] jbailey: so, did it look ok ? [01:12] what is it that calls ifrename? [01:13] lamont__: hotplug [01:13] /etc/hotplug/net.agent, it seems [01:13] yeah - just finally tracked that down... [01:14] when it misbehaves its a biatch === lamont__ just discovered that the USB nic beat out the non-USB nic at boot time.. most annoying [01:14] didn't have the USB nic in /etc/iftab - hence the pain === Mithrandir wanders off [01:15] bye Mithrandir [01:18] allee: udu.wiki: LaptopHardwareSupport: Special Keys: Found no infos about add/help 'preconfiguring' them out-of-the-box for breezy [01:19] allee: How can on join/help on this topic? [01:19] does ubuntu watch wired ethernet for cable-insertion by default ? [01:19] allee: I'm working on that at the moment [01:20] With luck, there should be some support in Breezy next week [01:20] lifeless: no [01:20] allee: thanks [01:20] lifeless: That's part of NetworkMagic (which doesn't actually exist yet) [01:20] mjg59: great [01:20] mjg59: yeah, I was at the bof ;) can't blame me for hoping ;( [01:20] license issues :-/ [01:20] mjg59: via which pkgs will add the support so I can check them (I know several ways to do it ;) [01:21] mjg59: and contribute of course [01:21] allee: It'll probably be by adding a new package, to begin with [01:22] mjg59: care to sketch how it's planed to work? Just to get the idea about the direction and used route [01:22] mjg59: I can't login to ubuntulinux.org at the moment [01:23] mjg59: is there somewhere else I can put the keycodes ? [01:23] hrm, i wonder where johndong is [01:23] lifeless: oh, I did I miss a page for keycodes :( URL? [01:24] allee: I promised to make one [01:24] but nologin == no keycodes [01:24] LinuxJones: k. And I promise to add data when done === darkmark [~mark_a_l@82-32-64-135.cable.ubr01.bath.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:25] s/LinuxJones/lifeless/. got me :( [01:25] heh~ [01:27] allee: Effectively the following: [01:27] allee: Bind machine scancodes to generic keycodes (using DMI to tell which set of scancodes to use) [01:27] allee: Configure those keycodes to do the right thing in X === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:28] allee: And for machines which generate ACPI events on hotkeys, generate a fake X keycode [01:29] mjg59: so .. [01:29] mjg59: where should I list the codes as I can't wiki them [01:29] udu wiki ? === kent [~kent@c-bdc871d5.432-1-64736c13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:30] lifeless: Sorry, I got distracted. Where is the package? [01:30] lifeless: LaptopKeycodes [01:30] Oh, argh. Wiki is broken? [01:30] my login is [01:30] Gah [01:31] Just stick them on a website somewhere, we'll add them later [01:31] Dell seem to use the same scancodes as Microsoft, which makes things easier [01:31] jbailey: [01:31] http://www.cundal.net/debian/ [01:31] night [01:31] pitti: night :-) [01:31] dooh! [01:32] mjg59: DMI? I'll try with dmidecode. I'm not sure I find stuff like 'XFAudioRaise' (or so) there [01:33] allee: No, you won't [01:33] mjg59: people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/codes.txt === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === KaiL [KaiL@p548F476A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:34] allee: That's not the issue. We need to know what pressing the key does. Once we know that, we can use the DMI information to know which set of scancodes to use on an arbitrary machine. [01:34] Once we have the scancodes, everything else is easy [01:34] mjg59: what dmi info do you need to id the dell ? [01:34] lifeless: Vendor name, model name === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:34] I'll put it in that file [01:34] (form DMI) [01:35] this foo: [01:35] Handle 0x0100 [01:35] DMI type 1, 25 bytes. [01:35] System Information [01:35] Manufacturer: Dell Inc. [01:35] Product Name: Latitude X1 [01:35] Version: Not Specified [01:35] Serial Number: 37VCF1S [01:35] Yeah, that stuff [01:35] UUID: 44454C4C-3700-1056-8043-B3C04F463153 [01:35] Wake-up Type: Power Switch [01:35] But not the serial number [01:36] doh [01:36] well thats mine! [01:36] and its public record now :) [01:36] hehe [01:36] (One of the things about the hardware database spec was working out what information we didn't want to send...) [01:37] mjg59: ok, its all in codes.txt [01:37] if someone could redact this log to strip that serial that would be nice. [01:37] fabbione: ^^ ? [01:37] lifeless: Ta [01:37] though I'm sure there are 4000 other logs being made [01:38] np [01:38] pure selfinterest here [01:38] lifeless: Does this guy IRC? I would usually have the person do some cleanups before I sponsor. [01:39] you just Know that when I start using breezy I'll be looking for this to JustWork ;) [01:39] jbailey: dunno, though he is responsive on email [01:39] Brett Cundal [01:39] mjg59: Sorry now I'm confused. "We need to know what pressing the key does" for me means: check showkeys output for scancode and label it with 'logical description". How is here dmi invovled? [01:39] his package has been uploaded many times, just his regular sponsor has gone busy/awol [01:39] lifeless: Did he ask you to sponsor this, or are we just snarfing it off his site? [01:40] so I wouldn't anticipate significant issues with the packaging itself. [01:40] allee: On system boot, we need to use the DMI information to work out which scancodes to use on a given machine [01:40] He asked me to help him find a sponsor [01:40] he asked on debian-mentors *months* ago [01:40] Dells use one set of scancodes. HP use another. Acer use a third. [01:41] jbailey: quoting: Sure... I just need a sponsor to upload the package. The package needs [01:41] to be looked at for packaging errors and whatnot, to see whether it's [01:41] suitable for inclusion in Debian... Since it's already in unstable and [01:41] the changes are fairly minor since the last upload, I would expect it [01:41] to be not much work. [01:42] mjg59: Ah so DMI is only used to find out producer/model and that get's acociated with a scancodes config-file [01:42] allee: Exactly [01:42] lifeless: So far not much packaging work. He has example scripts lying around that he doesn't need. He renames the packaging without really saying why he does it. [01:42] Once we have the scancodes and the dmi information, we can ensure that on boot that stuff works properly === jbailey tries a build. [01:43] mjg59: any ideas on how well suspend to {disk,ram} works on the HP NC6000? [01:43] jbailey: ok. want me to give it a once over first ? (I am interested in getting gst updated which is why my fingers are involved) [01:44] Nah, I've already gone over the packaging, verified that it's the same as upstream source, yada yada. Now I'm just seeing if it builds. =) [01:44] ;) [01:44] lifeless: My Debian machine is an ia64. =) It's currently FTBFS on that arch... [01:44] cool! [01:44] jbailey: 2.1.10 has updates that Paolo said should fix at the time [01:45] the FTBS is on 2.1.8 which June 2004 === mkde [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:45] .. thus the desire to get 2.1.10 uploaded [01:45] eep. off to training. back in a few hours [01:45] jbailey: if it doesn't work, I'd love accesss to that machine to fix it ;) === Robinho_Peixoto [~robinho@200164023147.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:46] if you need it i'll kick my ia64 bgack on to ipv6 and you can abuse that... [01:46] thom: thanks! [01:47] lamont__: Should be fine, but you need to blacklist i2c-i801 [01:47] ooh [01:47] (not sure why) [01:47] hi mjg59, i was saying the other day about some of my laptop keys not working, you said to look in dmesg, i didn't find em === thom -> bed [01:49] mkde: What sort of laptop? [01:49] mjg59, its a compaq presario 2100 [01:49] mkde: Ok. It's possible that it needs some magic. [01:50] mjg59, i'm all ears [01:50] mjg59, i feel sure that once upon a time the mute button used to work with linux [01:51] mkde: I'm afraid I don't have any old Compaq hardware, and it's basically been killed since the HP merger, so it's hard to get test kit [01:51] mjg59, ok [01:52] mjg59, is it likely to be a kernel or a xorg problem? [01:52] mkde: Kernel [01:52] mkde: Well, kernel-ish. X knows nothing about the keyboard. [01:52] mkde: Mute: what does not work: sound still on or xev show nothing/no keysym or showkeys gives nothing? [01:53] nothing on xev [01:53] If pressing it shows nothing in xev and nothing in the kernel dmesg, then something needs to be done in the kernel [01:53] to be fair, even the hotkeys that work don't come up in dmesg [01:53] its strange that some work and others not [01:53] mkde: and on console: gives showkeys any output? [01:54] allee, what should I do to test? [01:54] mjg59, so is it worth filing a bug upstream or just leave it you think? [01:54] mkde: ALT-CRTL-F1 login and run showkeys, then press not-working keys [01:55] allee: It's not really a bug, it's a missing feature [01:55] is "showkey" the same thing? [01:55] Without the hardware, it's hard to tell what's going on [01:55] s/allee/mdke/ [01:55] mjg59, ok [01:55] mjg59, if the hardware isn't made anymore i guess its not really worth us working on it [01:55] mkde: ops, yes showkey [01:56] allee, gives nothing [01:56] mdke: Well, it's something I'll look at if I can find any information about it, or get hold of some of the hardware [01:57] But at the moment, I'm concentrating on current stuff [01:57] mkde: now I'm stuck :( [01:57] mjg59, thats fine [01:57] mjg59, if you ever have a old hardware fest I can bring this laptop along ;) [01:57] mkde: did you check linux-for-laptops archive for infos about keys for your model already? [01:58] allee, will do now [01:58] allee, linux-laptop.net? [01:59] mkde: yes and http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html === bskahan [~bskahan@pool-70-19-54-124.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:00] allee, yeah, this confirms my problem http://slist.lilotux.net/laptop/ [02:01] no biggie [02:02] just in case there was a quick fix or i could report it somewhere [02:02] the laptop works fine otherwise [02:14] mjg59, lifeless: what's the best way to get notified about changes in this area. So I can jump in whenever I can contribute? [02:15] allee: At the moment, probably just to monitor the ubuntu-devel mailing list [02:15] I'll send something there once some code exists [02:16] mjg59: what kind of laptops are you guys going to be sending to testers? [02:16] im just curious [02:16] zul: IBM, Toshiba, Dell, possibly HP, possibly Apple, possibly Sony [02:16] cool [02:17] Mostly looking at the business end of the market at this point, then shifting down to the consumer end in future [02:17] nice [02:17] mjg59: uhm, well. 'nother list broad topic list ;) Nevertheless I'll do. Thx! [02:18] ogra: aw, what happened to the xscreensaver prettiness? [02:18] http://www.grawert.net/xss_mockup.png [02:18] ;) [02:18] working on it [02:18] infinity: ping [02:18] ogra: Change User? [02:18] yeah [02:18] ogra: wasn't you saying /users/ where to complain ;-)? not devs :-P. [02:19] heh [02:19] ogra: I'm saying it should say 'Change User' ;) [02:19] mjg59: any amd64 laptops? [02:19] probably "other user".... [02:19] the people in the background are spooky [02:20] hehe [02:20] Nafallo: None of the big vendors have really gone with them yet, so that may be Breezy+1 [02:20] that are the people behind ubuntu ;) [02:20] mjg59: hmm. how long are you going to send out laptops? ;-) [02:20] ogra: I'm saying the way they're presented are spooky. [02:20] heh... === doko [~doko___@dsl-082-082-192-254.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:21] Nafallo: We'll be starting in a month or so, and we'll be doing it while we have money to spend on this project :) [02:21] Though the budget is not that big [02:21] ogra: Either make them a bit more visible or drop them, I'd say. [02:21] mjg59: kewl :-) [02:21] People will get to keep the machines if they file enough reports [02:21] Amaranth, nope [02:21] ogra: It totally creeps the hell out of my as is. [02:22] s/my/me/ [02:22] mjg59: no joke? Testers can apply for a laptop? [02:22] ogra: Can you make one without the people, just for comparison? [02:22] nope [02:22] allee: Yeah. Read the mailing list :) [02:22] ogra: What was the point of showing us then? [02:23] It'll only be 10 or so people getting them, and it'll be based on the amount of community involvement [02:23] mjg59: wasn't subcribed ;) [02:23] Amaranth, mdz asked .... [02:23] I wish I was a Member. :) [02:23] I'd apply for one of those, I like breaking things. [02:23] software, not hardware [02:23] mjg59: ah. No problem I've nough of (Dell) laptops around me ;) [02:24] allee: I'm loving my X1 ;) [02:25] The Dell X series is all rebadged Samsung stuff [02:25] lifeless: Does it do suspend to RAM? [02:25] yes [02:25] lifeless: good too know now that the X300 is no longer produced. How hardware support out-of-the-box? [02:25] and hibernate [02:25] lifeless: Hurrah. An improvement. [02:25] The X300 needed DSDT hacking. [02:25] doesn't bring the ipw2200 back correctly from hibernate, does from ram [02:26] mjg59: I had no succes with X300 here (with patched DSDT) :( [02:27] lifeless: unloading the module helps? [02:27] allee: Should work with stock Hoary [02:27] Chat to jdub about it at some point - it works for him [02:27] baah, my laptop doesn't hibernate at all :-P [02:27] it might have worked with hoary, but I'm not sure. === allee retries ... [02:28] (before adding rt2500 wlandriver ;-)) [02:29] KaiL: oh yes, its trivial to fix [02:29] KaiL: rmmod, modprobe, its back., [02:30] lifeless: maybe network modules should also be unloaded? They fail quite often... [02:30] do we kill hotplug? that will bring my wlan right back in ;-) [02:30] KaiL: it is removed [02:30] "should always" I mean.. [02:31] KaiL: its not inserting properly straight after the from-hibernate resume [02:32] mjg59: X300: fn-suspend -> dead (power led on, black screen, ping: unreachable etc) [02:33] allee: Unf. Dunno. [02:34] get better Laptops :) [02:34] allee: Edit /etc/default/acpi-support and change USE_DPMS to false, then see if there's any text when it hangs [02:34] Samsung P35 works perfect for example (except SDIO, but that's anothr story) === blahrus [jrgrl@12-223-50-121.client.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:35] KaiL: SDIO? what's that? [02:35] mjg59: I'll try [02:35] allee: Slot for SD-Cards [02:37] allee: Linux currently only supports MMC-Cards (that's more or less a subset of that) and only with a Winbond chip, not the used Ricoh [02:37] mjg59: ha, black screen instead of grub menu. Great ;) [02:37] allee: ? [02:38] Ricoh has support in 2.6.12, iirc [02:38] bob2: No, just Winbond [02:38] mjg59: powered off and and. See the f2/f12 selection then screen is black no grub menu [02:38] allee: ? [02:39] allee: Suspend shouldn't power off [02:39] the Winbond is already in 2.6.10 (wbsd module) [02:39] Are you sure you're suspending and not hibernating? [02:39] mjg59: remember: the x300 was dead. [02:39] allee: Dead how? [02:40] allee: Oh, hung? [02:40] [02:32] mjg59: X300: fn-suspend -> dead (power led on, black screen, ping: unreachable etc) [02:40] Remove the battery and hold the power button down for a while [02:40] gaah. I got a cheap_laptop(tm) [02:41] Manufacturer: ACTEBIS (what happened to Targa?) ;-) [02:41] Nafallo: that doesn't mean anything. does it work? [02:41] mjg59: thx, grub menu back (nice experience) [02:41] KaiL: ofcourse ;-) [02:42] so who cares....:) [02:42] at least you don't need to fight with the pre-alpha drivers, windows users need to use :)) [02:43] hehe [02:43] mdz: do I still need to fix the permissions issue on the kubuntu seeds? [02:43] btw. is there any hardware known not to work, except those SDIO stuff and some broken ACPI tables? [02:43] this amd64-laptop shipped with winxp home 32-bit for what it worth ;-) [02:44] Riddell: yes, please [02:45] kail reminded me that it's late in europe ;) [02:45] Nite [02:46] mdz: hopefully that's it fixed now [02:47] Riddell: testing [02:48] Riddell: nope [02:48] drwxr-sr-x 3 jriddell warthogs 4096 Jun 3 01:46 /home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--breezy/seeds--breezy--0/patch-6/++revision-lock/ [02:48] Riddell: that stuff all needs to be group-writable; set your umask to 00x [02:49] and chmod -R g+w on the tree to fix what's already there [02:50] jbailey: regarding #11135, you said you had a patch ready for review? [02:52] allee: good idea ;) [02:53] KaiL: yeap === sgran_ [~steve@cpe-68-174-75-22.ucwphilly.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === justdave [~dave@66-227-241-236.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:59] mdz: do I change it on my local repository or on chinstrap? [02:59] Riddell: on chinstrap [03:00] mdz: ah [03:00] chmod -R g+w /home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com [03:00] to fix the immediate problem so that I can commit [03:01] mdz: done [03:01] Riddell: much better, thanks [03:02] for the more permanent fix, make sure ~/.bashrc specifies umask 002 [03:02] mdz: do I have to set the umask somewhere so it stays like that? [03:02] yep :) [03:02] though I thought that was the default [03:03] mdz: it seems to be the default, but I had checked it out onto my laptop where the umask isn't set for group writable [03:03] oh, that might explain why this has happened to a few others as well [03:03] if the local permissions affect it [03:03] but I don't see why that would be [03:04] bob2: is that possible? [03:04] I'll put a note on the seed page on the wiki [03:06] if you check it out, and the umask changes the permissions on-disk, they can get checked back in [03:07] bob2: in this case, the issue is permissions on files in the archive itself (like ++revision-lock) [03:08] mdz : pong. [03:08] infinity: can I get a retry of antlr? [03:08] it should succeed this time [03:08] mdz: acls can make those problems go away [03:08] mdz : Did the seeds get shuffled? :) [03:08] Clint: acls can replace those problems with, newer, harder to debug problems ;-) [03:08] infinity: seeds, versions, yeah [03:09] mdz : Alright, bouncing it. [03:09] I'm trying to unravel this chain of java stuff === SloMo [~slomo@p5487F0CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blahrus [senp@12-223-50-121.client.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:10] if antlr builds, that should unblock gjdoc, which should unblock junit, which should unblock (I think) libant1.6-java, which unblocks the world [03:10] then we can move the lot into main and have free java apps in main [03:11] wasabi says eclipse is nearly there [03:11] eclipse *is* there. [03:11] or will be when the buildds get sorted out. ;) [03:12] (and somebody uploads my java-common to main since I can't) [03:12] mdz : Actually, it looks like ecj-bootstrap binaries are stuck somewhere (queue/new?). It's in state "Uploaded", not "Installed"... If it was in the archive, antlr would have built already (I set the right dep-waits last night) [03:12] http://kyoto.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/java-common [03:12] oh my apache is segfaulting. heh. [03:15] http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/java-common [03:16] infinity: very weird [03:16] it's sitting in queue/unchecked [03:16] but queue/REPORT says it was accepted [03:16] ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_i386.changes [03:16] ACCEPT [03:16] ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_all.deb [03:16] to pool/universe/e/ecj-bootstrap/ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_all.deb [03:16] Accepting. === Traveler1 [~sgalletto@mail.aktiv-assekuranz.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:17] mdz : Neat. (the one in unchecked may have just landed there, I reuploaded it thinking it may have got lost) [03:17] infinity: oh, so it did [03:17] no idea where the previous one went, but we'll see how this goes === diego [~diego@ppp-70-247-230-64.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:19] Apparently, jackass has been acting up recently, and katie's been doing goofy things. So, I'm not even willing to hazard a guess as to what might have gone wrong. :) [03:19] (A couple of source uploads seem to have been accepted, had mail go to -changes, then head off into NerverNeverLand too) [03:19] Does somebody knows where can I find some kind of documentation about multiseat package? [03:20] infinity: possibly a side effect of all my teri'ing lately [03:21] mdz, do you mind uploading the java-common i posted? [03:21] infinity: is there anything else that needs attention in the libant1.6-java chain? I want to move it, junit, libjaxp1.2-java, junit into main today [03:23] wasabi: done [03:23] thanks you [03:27] daniels: what do you think is the best way to handle starting the X server on thin clients? ltsp currently uses /etc/inittab, but I think a daemon with an init script would probably be more appropriate === jarjar_must_die [~CoreTex@adsl-69-110-48-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:27] daniels: can we (ab)use one of the display managers for this purpose? [03:29] mdz : Do we need to sync a new libant1.6-java from Debian still? The one in the archive predates all this java buggery by several weeks. [03:30] Nope. [03:30] The ant in Ubuntu is radically different than the one in Debian. [03:30] Just waiting for Sarge to be altered in Debian. [03:31] wasabi : Kay. We've been pulling the other stuff from experimental, we don't want the experimental ant? [03:31] Uh. Um.... [03:31] I can't say. [03:31] I don't know if they merged my changes into there. [03:31] Let me take a look. [03:31] They're even differnet source packages. [03:31] Yay. [03:32] 'ant' in ubuntu produces libant1.6-java, 'libant1.6-java' in Debian produces libant1.6-java, in main [03:32] And a seperate 'ant' package in contrib does the rest. === Nafallo_ [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jarjar_must_die [~CoreTex@adsl-69-110-48-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo [03:32] Ahh. [03:32] I unified them into one package, all compiled with free VMs [03:33] It's just too big of a change for Sarge, so Debian wants to hold off. [03:33] Thanks, I was looking at the wrong source package. :) [03:33] It doesn't look like the right stuff is in experimental. [03:34] wasabi : Is the current 'ant' build failure on breezy yet another "needs a newer gjdoc" dep-wait, then? [03:34] Hadn't noticed. Looking. === infinity apologises for his ignorance, but he doesn't speak fluent java (or fluent java errors) [03:36] Probably owing to the fact that there's been very little java stuff in main, historically. :) === gentoon [~gentoon@c-67-183-254-189.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dooglus [~dooglus@rincevent.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:38] excuse my slowness, my computer is falling apart at the seems. [03:38] epiphany now refuses to launch, along with nautilus. ;) [03:39] Breezy ready for testing yet? [03:39] I have a 40gb partition open [03:39] gentoon: Are you comfortable in a shell (no X)? [03:40] gentoon: Can you figure out complex linux problems without help? [03:40] gentoon : It's always ready for testing, but definitely not ready for every day use. (so, not ready for regular "end user testing") [03:40] No one can do that, thats why we have bugs and forums and docs [03:40] I know thats why i asked if its ready for "testing" [03:41] #ubuntu users using breezy right now have agreed to not help people running breezy as a way of stopping casual users from trying to use it [03:41] Nobody? [03:41] And i work in pure CMI everyday all day at work [03:41] Thats very anti-productive [03:42] everyone thats testing it should talk to eachother [03:42] Good, so they shouldn't be testing, and they won't have to be talked to! [03:42] so you don't want people to test it yet [03:42] gentoon: Users who know what they are doing and plunge ahead anyway are the ones that can figure out what is going on and file bugs. [03:43] okay thats what i was asking [03:43] gentoon: It needs lots of testing, just not from casual users right now. [03:43] Well yea, but when testing new stuff, its nice to see known bugs, so ya dont run in circles that have been ran in my someone else [03:44] eh it needs more testing of universe CXX apps [03:44] and less people moaning about xorg [03:44] Now you have insulted me, by calling me a 'casual' user, i have been coding since before you were alive probably [03:44] tseng: and monodeps ;-) [03:44] gentoon: who called you that? [03:44] we made a generalization that had nothign to do with you [03:44] Anyways, i offered i guess its back to SID [03:44] but the situation in general [03:45] see ya guys [03:45] and good luck [03:45] bye! =) [03:46] wasabi : So, the ant failure is...? :) [03:47] I don't know. [03:47] I can't even open a browser heh === wasabi lynx! [03:47] mdz : Feh. ecj-bootstrap is still stuck in Uploaded (again). We may need an elmo if someone else with rights to the archive can't figure out where it went. [03:48] wasabi : wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ant/1.6.2-2ubuntu3/ant_1.6.2-2ubuntu3_20050602-0708-i386-failed.gz [03:49] Hmm. Looks like an actual problem. [03:49] 2005-06-03 02:20: ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_i386.changes libchipcard_0.9.1-7_sparc.changes [03:49] ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_i386.changes [03:49] REJECT [03:49] Rejected: ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_i386.changes: a file with this name already exists in the Accepted directory. [03:49] Rejected: ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_all.deb file already exists in the Accepted directory. [03:49] Rejecting. [03:49] But it's caused by a bug in java-gcj-compat. [03:49] Which I thought I fixed. [03:49] mdz : Okay, so it was properly accepted, just never got installed from accepted. Fun. [03:49] Can it be built again? [03:49] infinity: I'll kill it from accepted if you can reupload [03:50] mdz : I can. [03:50] wasabi : I can toss it back if you think it'll build on the second go. [03:50] infinity: ready when you are [03:50] one second, making sure [03:50] mdz : Always ready. [03:51] infinity: killed [03:51] There, re-uploaded. [03:51] Hmm. Actually I thought doko fixed this. [03:51] doko, ping. Was java-gcj-compat updated to depend on ecj? [03:52] infinity, it won't rebuild until I know what happened to the fix to java-gcj-compat, so don't retry it. [03:53] wasabi : It depends on ecj-bootstrap (the version we're trying to get installed right now) | ecj [03:53] errr. [03:53] Oh I see. Heh. [03:54] So, should I dep-wait ant on ecj-bootstrap? :) [03:54] I uploaded a temporary fix to Ant because I couldn't upload a real fix to java-gcj-compat (because it was in main) [03:54] There should still be a valid ecj-bootstrap binary. [03:54] Not the version that java-gcj-compat currently depends on. :) [03:54] OH. [03:55] and then doko fixed java-gcj-compat with a bad version. ;) [03:55] (Not the new version of j-g-c anyway) [03:55] So, I think where we're at is that j-g-c needs to be fixed, and I think doko was doing that. [03:55] mdz: I was told yesterday that the wiki spec for LaunchpadIntegration is wildly out of date now -- Who should I be pestering to update it? Apparently I'm supposed to be helping with the design [03:55] So, yeah. If you tell me it will all magically work when ecj-bootstrap is rescued from oblivion, I'll retry ant shortly. [03:55] Java is so incestuest. [03:55] mpt: truthfully? sabdfl ;-) [03:56] ehhh [03:56] wasabi : Don't feel bad. Most big package sets are like this. Heck, even X build-depends on itself. [03:56] mpt: he has specified that he wants to add two items to the Help menu of applications which have a Help menu [03:56] mdz: That's what I suggested originally, and got shot down :-P [03:57] We could fix j-g-c [03:57] I just can't upload it, because it's in main now. [03:57] wasabi : What fix does it require? [03:57] So I was waiting for doko to do so. === stub [~stub@203-217-37-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:58] IT needs to build-depend on ecj-bootstrap and runtime ecj-bootstrap. [03:58] I think it's missing a runtime depend. [03:58] wasabi : No, the runtime dep is there. It's just versioned too high to be useful right now. [03:59] wasabi : S'what I said up there. [03:59] that's odd how my apt-cache showsrc doesn't show that [03:59] mdz: In other news, I'd really really like to be contributing to fix the Ubuntu Help content (you were in the CC of a message I sent about it earlier), but *nobody* in the docteam can give me a step-by-step guide to how to modify the table of contents etc, other than pointing to scrollkeeper which seems to have almost zero documentation itself ... Who can I ask about that? [03:59] wasabi : It'll sort itself when our poor wayward ecj-bootstrap binary finds its way to the archive. [03:59] Okay, just tear the version off. [03:59] wasabi : showsrc doesn't show binaries. :) [03:59] wasabi : Try just "show" [03:59] err. duh. ;) [04:00] Yes. Strip the versioned depend off. [04:00] wasabi : But we need the new bootstrap anyway, according to doko... [04:00] wasabi : So we may as well just fix that. [04:00] (Or do we really?) [04:00] i dont' even remembe rwhat it fixed. [04:00] this is killing my brain [04:01] Kamion: for your scrollback edification, base-config is now pending a pysvn patch which I'm sending doko & elmo now [04:01] It doesn't. We don't really need it. [04:01] mpt: there are practical problems with that UI, such as the fact that it involves modifying a huge number of applications, and some applications don't even have a help menu [04:01] mpt: but it's what he wants at this point [04:01] mpt: if you have already thought about it along those lines, feel free to update the spec accordingly [04:01] mdz: re baz COTM in hoary ... [04:01] ok [04:02] ecj-bootstrap was updated to correct a build failure (because of an update to gcj-4.0.1) [04:02] And it was also synched with debian. [04:02] The existing binary works. [04:02] mpt: regarding documentation, I don't know any more about that than you do, I expect. it'd be a yelp question, try seb128. he should be able to point you to someone who knows, if he doesn't [04:02] ok, thanks for your time mdz [04:02] mdz: uhm, its your call really. as upstream I would advise against, because IMO there is a difference between 'latest stuff that is pipelining in ' and 'CRACKOFTHEMOMENT" [04:02] wasabi : Okay. Then we have a few source packages with needlessely inflated build-deps/deps. antlr is also waiting on that version, I think. [04:03] Yeah, I believe doko did that on accedent. [04:03] mdz : Any sign of progress on that binary? [04:03] lifeless: can we get 'latest stuff that is pipelining in', then? currently our only options are COTM and releases [04:03] Or maybe he didn't. I don't know. ;) [04:03] mdz: as we release monthly, I don't see how - [04:03] ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_i386.changes [04:03] ACCEPT [04:03] ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_all.deb [04:03] to pool/main/e/ecj-bootstrap/ecj-bootstrap_3.0.1-3_all.deb [04:03] Accepting. [04:03] Accepted 1 package set, 907 KB. [04:03] but I could drop someone a mail that '1.5~200506021435 looks unbroken' [04:04] for instane [04:04] bob2: is 1.4.1 uploaded to debian yet ? [04:04] infinity, looks like ecj-bootstrap just fixed itself. ;) [04:04] :) [04:04] lifeless: er, monthly? [04:04] rebuild j-g-c [04:04] lifeless: bazaar in breezy is 3 months old [04:04] Actually it should kick itself off shouldn't it? [04:04] mdz: yes, and is the release-before last [04:05] lifeless: ok, then scratch my previous request, and "can we please track the latest releases in breezy?" [04:05] mdz: sure thing, love to. [04:05] mdz: fabbione said that they sync via debian [04:05] wasabi : It'll kick off when ecj-bootstrap is actually installed. katie lies a bit when it says it's moved files to pool/... It actually means it's mapped them and scheduled them to be moved on the next cron.daily. [04:05] mdz: but if you were to pull directly, that would reduce some latency [04:05] lifeless: debian has the same old version [04:06] "daily"? [04:06] yes, thus my ping to bob2 [04:06] wasabi : A misnomer from Debian. It's daily in Debian, every 15 mins (I think?) with Ubuntu. [04:06] mdz: debian has 1.3.2, which was the latest until last week [04:06] wasabi : But still called cron.daily, just cause. [04:06] bob2: lifeless just said it was the release-before-last [04:06] lifeless: not yet, doing it now [04:06] mdz: it is [04:06] 1.3.2 released a week after hoary [04:06] actually, 1.3 did. [04:07] a week after hoary was 2 months ago [04:07] <-- confused [04:07] was it that long ? crap [04:07] mdz : Can you tell if cron.daily is running on jackass? Apparently it was taking forever and a day to finish its runs yesterday (something about elmo adding a second CPU to the box which slowed it down immensely) [04:07] 'monthly' is a little loose. [04:07] infinity: yes, it is running right now [04:08] around here 'monthly' could mean 'every other hour' [04:08] wasabi : Now you're starting to catch on. :) [04:09] wasabi: where 'daily' means 'twice per hour'? ;-) [04:09] 4 times it seems [04:10] Don't take my word for it. I don't have direct access to jackass and I have a horrible memory. COuld be every 30 mins. :) === ikuyaLoqu [~ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:10] mdz: should be able to, yes [04:10] mdz: hoary has 1.2, debian has 1.3.2 [04:11] bob2: right, and breezy has 1.3.2 [04:11] right [04:11] wasabi: twice, :03 and :33 [04:12] infinity: ecj-bootstrap installed [04:12] cron.daily looks to have finished [04:13] Yup. Everything's back on track. [04:13] Huzzah. [04:13] wasabi : Kicking back ant now. === wasabi prays [04:13] I think what really caused all this problem is every package involved got updated, all at the same time. ;) [04:14] And they all broke in some way [04:14] And then got moved to main. [04:14] Not in that order. === infinity hopes that ant and antlr succeeding will be enough to trickle down and magically fix the whole chain. [04:16] wasabi : antlr doesn't need the new ant, does it? (Please say no, cause they just started building in the other order) [04:16] I think you guys are tackling more in the 6 months for breezy then red hat did for fedora core 4. :P [04:16] hmmm. [04:16] Shouldn't. ;) [04:16] Good. Looks like it was successful. [04:17] I can't wait to see Eclipse build. ;) [04:17] Oh, can you kick eclipse? [04:17] It's dep waiting on j2sdk1.3 [04:18] wasabi : Do you have a list of packages waiting to be untangled? [04:18] (other than eclipse, which I'll smack around right now) [04:18] No, I don't. [04:18] I think we're pretty good off now. [04:18] how is gnome 2.11 coming along, i noticed 2.11.3 should be out next week === calc also notices there is no webpage other than on live.gnome.org about 2.11 eg gnome.org/start/2.11/ doesn't exist [04:19] and no source tarballs for any 2.11 [04:20] frick. i seem to have an unsolvable mess here on my hands. [04:20] I am confident if I exit X it won't launch again. ;) [04:21] yea X has been broken in various ways under hoary for several weeks [04:21] breezy. [04:21] X hasn't been broken in hoary has it? heh [04:21] erm yea oops ;) [04:21] ok, phew. === calc can't remember what he is running :) [04:21] I discovered today that 'grep' is broken in hoary [04:21] infinity: I want libant1.6-java, junit, libjaxp1.2-java and xerces-j [04:22] is there any way to get it fixed officially? [04:22] dooglus: those are both pretty vague [04:22] dooglus : Define "broken"? [04:22] from what i can tell the only two install bugs left are the xkbcomp and libxt issue [04:22] infinity: it uses all available CPU for as long as you let it in some cases. it crashed my laptop 3 times today due to overheating. [04:22] infinity: try this: [04:22] yes | head -1000000 | LC_ALL=C grep . > /dev/null [04:23] uh. [04:23] it should run pretty quickly, right? === bradb [~bradb@modemcable141.58-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:23] no. [04:23] yes never exits dude. [04:23] wasabi: it does when the 'head' tells it to [04:23] dooglus : That's run a very fast infinite loop. [04:23] head doens't tell it to. [04:23] why would it? [04:23] yes outputs forever. [04:23] whoa, why did no one tell me Alt+arrow reorders tabs in xchat? [04:23] head buffers, waiting for the last 100000 lines [04:23] head exits, which means the 'yes' gets a sigpipe [04:24] which of course never get there, as yes never stops [04:24] but that's not the point [04:24] when does head exit? [04:24] head -1 exits after printing one line... [04:24] print the first N lines instead of the first 10; with the lead [04:24] ing -, print all but the last N lines of each file [04:24] try it: "yes | head -3" [04:24] you'll see, it's not an infinite loop [04:24] wasabi: it doesn't infinite loop, i've tried it [04:24] wasabi : Erm, yeah. It does get a sigpipe. Duh. [04:24] oh... [04:24] heh. ;) [04:24] Anyhow. [04:25] so anyway... of these 2 commands, the first works, very quickly, and the 2nd hangs, almost forever, eating all available CPU: [04:25] yes | head -1000000 | LC_ALL=C grep . > /dev/null <- OK [04:25] yes | head -1000000 | LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 grep . > /dev/null <- bad [04:25] can you reproduce that on breezy too? [04:25] dooglus: so you've figured it out more? [04:25] nice [04:25] java is eatting my mind [04:25] for some reason i can't comprehend that right now [04:26] Amaranth: it's a very old bug. It just didn't get fixed in ubuntu as far as I can tell [04:26] wasabi: switch to mono? [04:26] dooglus : grep in UTF8 has always been slow as a dog, no? [04:26] using C took 0.5 real time, using en_US.UTF-8 took..well, it's still running [04:27] infinity: Either other distros cheat and set C or this got fixed somewhere. [04:27] dooglus: "grep is slow with UTF-8 locales" is not the same as "grep is broken" [04:27] infinity: yes, but that's not the problem here either - the problem is that due to a bug in the grep code, the algorithm takes a time propertional to the *square* of the size of the input file. [04:27] at any rate, there's already a bug open about the performance issue [04:27] istr something about locales and something being slow before ;) [04:27] mdz: but it's stupidly slow - grep should be take linear time [04:27] that's what's broken about it. [04:27] wow, en_US.UTF-8 is still running [04:27] of course that isn't very helpful, i recall redhat had some performance issues when they switched to using utf8 [04:27] Amaranth: it will run all year if you let it [04:27] red hat fixed them somehow [04:28] I think I have a one line workaround. [04:28] as long as it doesn't cheat and set LC_ALL to C that's good [04:28] dooglus: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1148 [04:28] the problem at the moment is that for every match of every character, grep looks through the whole rest of the file to see which characters are multi-byte. [04:29] that's where the O(n squared) comes from. [04:29] if you have further analysis that's not in that bug, please add comments there [04:29] infinity: yes, it's a very old problem [04:29] mdz: that bug is badly out of date [04:30] dooglus : Please update it, then. [04:30] dooglus: congrats on figuring this out, was driving me nuts trying to understand it [04:30] infinity: could I ask you though - how is this _supposed_ to work? [04:30] it's a GNU application, but you get it from debian, and you also hack on it yourself. [04:31] and the redhat are hacking on it too - how do it all work - or how _should_ it all work? [04:31] dooglus : We can fix it in breezy, push the changed to Debian, and the Debian maintainer will push the changes upstream. If anyone in that chain decides the changes suck, we'll just carry them ourselves. [04:31] the fedora guys fixed it ages ago (see patch, here: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/devel/grep/grep-2.5.1-egf-speedup.patch ) [04:31] dooglus : Alternately, report the bug (and fix) to GNU, and we'll get the changes trickled down eventually. [04:32] redhat released an advisory about it, over a year ago. but nothing happened to the GNU code [04:32] dooglus : Odds are that RedHat would have pushed their changes upstream already, so there's a fair chance the GNU maintainer decided it wasn't elegant/correct enough. That wouldn't necessarily stop us from carrying the patch, if it seems to work well enough and not cause regressions elsewhere. [04:32] infinity: that's what I don't understand - the GNU guys have been sitting on the bug for over a year too, doing nothing - same as the ubuntu guys. [04:33] here's the GNU bug: http://savannah.gnu.org/patch/?func=detailitem&item_id=3803 [04:34] as far as I can see there's no comment from the GNU people at all [04:34] oh, my bad. that's March this year - so they've only sat on it for 3 months. [04:34] Amaranth: did your grep finish yet? [04:35] dooglus: I quit it. [04:37] is there anything useful I can do to help with breezy? I've got a lot of debugging experience and nothing better to do with my time... === tritium [~tritium@12-208-96-155.client.insightBB.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi [~wasabi@c-67-174-81-195.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:38] irssi. =/ === robitaille [~robitaill@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:38] Did it all get in? [04:39] dooglus: you could join #ubuntu-motu and help out w/ universe [04:39] dooglus: fix pkgs w/ build errors, etc... [04:39] dooglus: filing bug reports is important [04:40] Amaranth: I'm a little disillusioned about that. Last week I filed 3 and all 3 were shouted down, even though they were valid. Now I see this massive problem with grep sitting in a bug report not being fixed... [04:41] links to the 3? === AndyFitz [~andy@wlanconf-nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:42] wasabi : Depends on what "it" was. I saw nothing from you before you dropped. [04:42] "it all" = "java" [04:42] wasabi : Oh. Still working on babysitting it. [04:43] wasabi : ant and antlr are uploaded, waiting for them to hit the archive before another wave of stuff that depends on them can start. [04:43] Amaranth: they were all gentoo related. Basically I was trying to install it by following the installation handbook, and filing documentation bugs whenever I found that the command they told me to type didn't work. [04:43] mdz: I've attached the patch to 11135 that I put into breezy. I don't have a Hoary system handy that I can butcher atm, but I tested it when I wrote it. [04:43] dooglus: oh, you're talking about another distro [04:44] dooglus: MOTU loves getting bug reports ;) [04:44] Amaranth: yes, sorry. I didn't make that clear. [04:44] what is MOTU? [04:44] dooglus: It's about 20 guys managing 12000 packages, bugs tell them what to look at [04:44] master of the universe? [04:44] yeah [04:44] heh [04:44] yep [04:44] #ubuntu-motu [04:46] jbailey: don't suppose you heard a bout eclipse? [04:47] wasabi: Only your mention earlier that you uploaded a new version to multiverse. [04:47] gnome-panel needs to be rebuilt. [04:47] ... at least that it what I'm seeing [04:47] An actual corrupt .deb file? [04:47] Eh. Because of eclipse? [04:47] Or did you context switch? [04:47] unrelated [04:47] context switch [04:47] what about gnome-panel? [04:49] Hmm. Don't know if it's my fault or not... not sure how it could be. dpkg-deb fails, subprocess killed by signal (Broken pipe) --fsys-tarfile returned error exit status 2 === wasabi clears his apt cache [04:49] infinity: ant meaning libant1.6-java? (we do have an entirely separate source package called ant) [04:49] mdz libant1.6-java, the source package, is deprecated and should be removed. [04:50] wasabi: ... [04:50] I thought it was meant to supersede ant [04:50] openoffice.org2 build-depends on libant1.6-java [04:50] No, exactly backwards. [04:50] we had ant before we had libant1.6-java [04:50] source packages ant super ceeds source package libant1.6-java [04:50] mdz : libant1.6-java is built from "ant" [04:50] source package ant produces BINARY package libant1.6-java [04:51] infinity: yes, but libant1.6-java produces a libant1.6-java binary package which is newer [04:51] What? It does? [04:51] wasabi : Is anything on your system NOT crashing? (are you having hardware issues?) [04:51] so currently, libant1.6-java builds libant1.6-java in breezy [04:51] not good. [04:51] shouldn't do that. [04:51] infinity: X issues. [04:52] mdz : Erm, no, ant should be newer.. 1.6.2-2ubuntu3 [04:52] mdz : Though, only barely. [04:52] hmm, did they swap again recently? [04:52] libant1.6-java needs to be removed. I don't know how that happened. [04:53] I swear I recall someone (jbailey? doko?) telling me that we were intentionally superseding libant1.6-java with the libant1.6-java source package [04:53] that was me actually. [04:53] but that's not what I said [04:53] few months ago I think. [04:53] yes, I see our conversation in March [04:53] Heck I think Hoary's copy works. ;) [04:53] Mar 21 18:23:48 then once the dust settles, you can request removal of libant1.6-java === AndyFitz [~andy@wlanconf-nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:54] Dust never settled, haha. [04:54] The dust must be settling right now? [04:54] ...months pass...:-) [04:54] Yeah, this is the dust right here. [04:54] well, if ant's libant1.6-java is newer now, we should be able to remove libant1.6-java source [04:54] that's sufficient settling [04:54] It might not be newer, but it is "good enough". [04:54] or did ant not build until just now? [04:54] We're going to have to maintain a fork of it until Debian adopts it. [04:54] newer meaning "higher version number" [04:55] (sarge, blah blah blah) [04:55] mdz ant just built and uploaded. [04:55] Put a colon in there somewhere. [04:55] I was totally hoping to avoid that. ;) [04:55] They both come from the same upstream sources, so we can always just, upgrade to make it superceed properly. [04:56] I've requested that libant1.6-java be removed [04:56] then we can just continue tracking ant [04:57] Oh, FFS. [04:57] wasabi : ant needs a new upload. [04:57] It's main now. ;) [04:57] volunteers? [04:57] lifeless: mdz http://crumbs.ertius.org/~rob/baz/ [04:57] what's wrong with it? [04:57] (in a few minutes) [04:57] wasabi : 1.6.2-2ubuntu3 is a lower version than 1.6.2-2.1 [04:58] germinate seems to be choosing libant1.6-java's libant1.6-java over ant's libant1.6-java [04:58] Oh. Ya know. I sear back in the day I made an upgrade of libant1.6-java with a change log that clear said what was going on. [04:58] I guess that must have been the crack. [04:58] infinity: isn't that what I was saying earlier? [04:58] mdz : Yes, and I either can't read or... Can't read. :) [04:59] Debian made a NMU and that made it into Ubuntu. === wasabi sigh. [04:59] wasabi : So, we definitely want ant over the libant1.6-java?... So, I should just upload an identical ant package with a bunped version number? :) [04:59] bumped, even. [04:59] Well, then you won't have merged the Debian changes. [04:59] And then we need libant1.6-java blacklisted from autosyncs. [05:00] wasabi : Well, if you want to merge the stuff from -2 -> -2.1, let me know. :) [05:01] I don't. Heck I can't right now. Can you upload a new copy, bumped version, to -2.1ubuntu0 or something silly. [05:01] Actually I guess it doesn't matter. [05:01] ubuntu1 [05:01] wasabi : The NMU was a 3-line patch. I can pull it into our ant package, if that's desireable. [05:02] It is. [05:02] I need my GUI back. [05:02] Alright, will do. === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:12] Mono is going to be in the Breezy base install, right? [05:13] emrysk: yep, it most likely will be [05:13] in main, don't think it'll be in desktop seed [05:14] might not even be in ship seed, that cd is bulging [05:14] Amaranth: depends if beagle or other apps get put in desktop seed [05:14] "if" [05:14] smeg should be in desktop seed ;) [05:15] Amaranth: if anyone ever uses it ;) [05:15] haha [05:15] ajmitch: heh, i think i'm covered there [05:15] probably [05:15] typical #ubuntu converstation: " how do i edit my menus? use smeg" [05:15] :D [05:16] I don't know if system tools is the best place in the menu for it [05:16] well, i wasn't too sure about that [05:16] it can be moved [05:16] it made more sense when it had a root mode [05:16] it still does, if you run it with --root === niran [~niran@lucianus.Stanford.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:23] mdz : Can we get libant1.6-java (the source package) blacklisted from syncs? I've just uploaded the shiny new (correctly-versioned) ant right now. [05:34] w [05:42] ogra: ping [05:42] or actually, does anyone know where ogra keeps the code for his hardware database thing? [05:43] grab the source package? I don't know if he has the code repository online [05:44] ajmitch: hmm, ok. what is it called? i dont actually have access to an ubuntu system atm (shock, horror) [05:45] drbyte: hwdb-client [05:45] ajmitch: is there a hwdb-server too? [05:45] not yet [05:45] you'd have to ask him [05:46] http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/base/hwdb-client that's good. sweet === jsgotangco dagger looks at drbyte [05:46] hehe [05:46] jsgotangco: dagger? [05:47] dagger = knife or something [05:47] you wanna knife me? [05:47] erps, why? [05:47] drbyte ajmitch: hmm, ok. what is it called? i dont actually have access to an ubuntu system atm (shock, horror) [05:47] hehe [05:47] just kidding [05:47] jsgotangco: hehe. right [05:48] jsgotangco: remember he's still stuck with fedora [05:48] there's no rush [05:49] thanks ajmitch, jsgotangco [05:49] gotta talk to ogra later i guess [05:49] or ogra, ping bytee if i'm not around. should be disconnecting soon [05:50] ok see ya === wasabi [~wasabi@c-67-174-81-195.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dampjam [~dampjam@CPE-69-23-199-131.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:57] the i386 install: http, and torrent are corrupt on http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/releases/5.04/ [05:57] the install fails on the bsdutils package [05:58] I am not sure where to report it [05:58] mako, ping? [06:02] jsgotangco: yes [06:02] was about to run to sleep.. but go ahead, you caugth me === shaya [~spotter@user-0ccembr.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:04] oh i already sent it on email, i want to give it to the LugRadioLive guy but needs review as well [06:04] also had jdub on cc since this is Ubuntu@conferences stuff [06:10] brb [06:14] morning [06:14] daniels: you around? [06:15] dampjam: have you checked the md5 sums? [06:17] infinity: I've already requested that it be removed entirely [06:18] morning mdz [06:18] fabbione: morning [06:18] I have [06:18] infinity: is the stack ready to move over into main? [06:19] I then downloaded the images from carroll.cac.psu.edu, they worked without a flaw [06:20] infinity: ant junit xerces-j libjaxp1.2-java [06:21] hmm, and classpath [06:22] mdz : junit is building right now. Checking on the others. [06:23] classpath isn't really neccassary when using gcj [06:23] Which we are doing. [06:23] gcj includes a complete native classpath compilation. [06:24] nice [06:24] so breezy is getting native eclipse in main? [06:24] wasabi : xerces-j build-deps on classpath... [06:24] Among other things. [06:24] Does it? [06:24] It probably needs to be fixed then. [06:24] rock [06:24] What is xerces-j for? [06:24] mono in main, java things in main, this release is going to blow people away [06:25] wasabi : Heckifiknow. :) [06:25] it's an xml parser [06:26] I've never had my hands on it. [06:26] What depends on it? [06:26] mdz : Your list all looks ready exceit for junit which has just been uploaded. [06:26] libant1.5-java [06:26] That is deprecated. [06:26] mdz? [06:27] [Reverse-Build-Depends: libant1.6-java] [06:27] Heh. [06:27] I suspect that's the old ant package? [06:27] if ant doesn't use it, then we won't need it [06:27] that's the libant1.6-java source package [06:27] i'm looking at local stuff [06:27] Yeah, the last update this thing had, other than what you did to it recently, was in 2002. [06:27] but ant uses it too [06:27] does it. [06:27] oh, it uses xerces2 [06:28] from xerces2-j [06:28] yeah. [06:28] xerces-j i think was being dropped by Debian [06:28] I remember hearing something about it [06:28] once everything is installed, I'll re-germinate and see how things look [06:28] hopefully germinate will choose ant's libant1.6-java now, and things should be clearer [06:28] http://java.debian.net/ a wiki page MovingJavaToMain === wasabi still at console. [06:35] X really is pretty screwed up isn't it. ;) [06:38] heh === Treenaks [~martijn@messy.foodfight.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:44] bob2: how is the ~rob/baz/ stuff different from what's in breezy? [06:44] wasabi: working OK for me [06:44] I had to fix up that mouse business in xorg.conf a few days ago, but there have been updates since then and it's probably fixed [06:47] wasabi: hmm, the picture is significantly more complex now [06:48] and kaffe is back [06:49] and jython [06:49] aheh. [06:49] and xerces-j is still here [06:49] where'd they come from? [06:49] anyone care to help me out with a hoary PXE boot problem? [06:49] breezy is working fine but not hoary [06:50] mdz: the big X move is killing me. [06:50] Thing won't even start. [06:50] http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/java-main.txt [06:50] that's the dependency chain leading back from openoffice.org2 [06:51] ant seems to pull in a *lot* more stuff than libant1.6-java was [06:51] Yeah, it does. [06:52] jlex at least needs fixing [06:52] The old libant1.6-java was super minimal. [06:52] and libbsf-java [06:52] jlex pulls in kaffe, libbsf-java pulls in jython [06:52] what program are you using to generate this? [06:52] anastacia [06:52] jython should be fine. [06:53] it compares the current state of the archive to what germinate says it should be [06:53] What's it pull in? [06:53] jython is way behind the times (python2.1); we don't want it [06:53] I remember these two. [06:53] Hmm. [06:53] bsf might require it. [06:53] that would be most unfortunate [06:53] bsf is the bean scripting framework. It is a generic scripting framework for Java. [06:53] someone was saying that jython was being updated for modern python [06:54] It includes a number of scripting engines, javascript (rhino), and jython [06:54] It might be disablable. [06:54] I remember being on this road before. [06:54] why does javax-servletapi2.3 need bsf? [06:54] Hmmm. Not sure. [06:54] that seems weird [06:54] Yeah it does. [06:56] Is the netpbm / netpbm-free guy here, or somebody that knows a bit about those two packages? [06:57] I know a bit about them; best to just ask [06:58] Indeed, ask away. [06:58] Ok. We've already done an info file for "netpbm". Theres also a info file for "netpbm-free". There doesn't seem to be a netpbm-free package in ubuntu. [06:58] (though there is a netpbm) [06:59] netpbm-free is the source package. [06:59] It also has the same cvsroot and cvsmodule as netpbm. That means to me that its a duplicate. [06:59] The netpbm-free source package generates the netpbm binary package., [06:59] Is that the confusion? :) [07:00] Wait. [07:00] mdz, servlet2.3 doesn't depend on bsf that I can see. [07:00] hmm, germinate doesn't usually lie about these things [07:00] infinity: The confusion is that there's two info files that point to the same place. [07:01] I don't see it either [07:02] jblack : Well, there hasn't been a "ntpbm" source package since 1998... So, "netpbm-free" is the canonical version. [07:02] wasabi: oh, that's backwards [07:02] wasabi: it's bsf that build-deps on servlet2.3 [07:02] That makes sense. [07:02] yes, much more so [07:03] is free-java-sdk a sane thing? I haven't seen it before [07:03] infinity: ?? Isn't the canonical package in ubuntu is called netpbm ? [07:03] free-java-sdk is some stupid thing that the Debian guys are into. [07:03] It's like java-gcj-compat, but it chooses a random JVM or something. [07:03] jblack : Not the source package, no. You do imports based on source package names, not binary, right? [07:03] Because they don't want to discriminate. [07:03] infinity: yes [07:03] random build deps, uh huh. [07:03] infinity: typically, we try to, yes. [07:03] jblack : apt-cache show netpbm, it's from the netpbm-free source. [07:03] it seems to be committed to sablevm at the moment [07:03] oh? [07:04] Depends: jikes-sablevm, fastjar, sablevm, classpath-tools [07:04] guess he won. ;) [07:04] Gadek (teh sable guy) is very loud spoken. Hehe. [07:04] we currently have sablevm in main, though I don't recall why [07:04] I'd discard free-java-sdk actually. [07:04] I think berkeley db or something build-deps on it [07:04] And discard sable, and fix bdb to build on gcj, in the long run. === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client] [07:05] As it happens, I called it netpbm because ubuntu calls it netpbm, freshmeat calls it netpbm. === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:05] yeah, db4.2 build-depends on sablevm [07:05] jblack : Ubuntu calls the source package netpbm-free, though (same as Debian) [07:05] sablevm AND gcj AND libgcj6-dev [07:05] I notice at freshmeat.net there's a program called "netpbm-free" that is a CLI-interfaced image creation and manipulation program. is that what you're thinking. [07:05] Well, I think our idea is that we'll have one "official supported JVM" [07:05] haha. [07:05] Yeah, tons of Debian packages do that. [07:05] why? [07:05] They build Java pieces with one JVM. [07:05] Then build native versions with GCJ. [07:05] jblack : The source package could be named back, since there's no netpbm-nonfree anymore, but I doubt anyone cares enough to do it. :) [07:05] The GCJ compiler traditionally SUCKS. [07:06] It's not really usable for much. [07:06] also, sourceforge calls it netpbm, and the homepage calls it netpbm too. [07:06] But we're using ECJ, which is supurb. [07:06] even the cvs module is netpbm. [07:06] jblack: it's always been netpbm upstream [07:06] jblack: but in Debian it was split into netpbm-free and netpbm-nonfree [07:06] jblack : Yes, it /IS/ netpbm. Our source package was just split back in 1998 to -free and -nonfree, because of GIF patents. [07:06] Free Java is marred from years of having 10 VMs all at various levels of completion. [07:07] that are actually expired btw [07:07] Debian of course hilights that because all 10 VM developers are d-d's [07:07] jblack : They were reintegrated in 2004 (when the patent expired), but the source package is still called -free, for hysterical raisins (or sheer laziness of people who didn't want to push a new source through queue/NEW) [07:07] *click*. Ok. importd isn't going to be able to handle netpbm-free for you guys, because right now its dependant upon a different source for every product. [07:07] jblack: hmm? it should be fine, there is now a 1:1 correspondence between the netpbm-free source package and the netpbm product [07:07] The kaffe fans always build with kaffe, the sable guys always use sable. A few people enjoy gcj. Some people use JamVM now too. [07:08] fun [07:08] Each of those VMs include their own copy of classpath. [07:08] So, then you have the Classpath + VM guys. [07:08] jblack : There is no netpbm source package at all, so as mdz says, there's a 1:1 mapping. [07:08] mdz: its there as "netpbm" as the upstream name (we're supposed to use upstream names) [07:08] Who pick a VM, and build with the VM against the classpath package instead of hte included one. [07:08] It's a real big mess. ;) [07:08] Oh, I getcha. You guys'll branch it. [07:09] jblack: at this point, now that netpbm-nonfree is gone, it's simply a matter of the source package being named differently from upstream [07:09] nothing more insidious than that === chris38-home [~Christian@LNeuilly-152-22-2-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:09] I'll drop lifeless an email letting him know that you'd like it renamed. [07:10] like what renamed? [07:10] wasabi: what do we do about classpath? [07:10] Never mind. [07:10] We ignore it. [07:10] And remove it from our deps. [07:11] Thanks for the time guys [07:11] The plan is to support one official VM. At this point it's GCJ. [07:11] and gcj includes its own copy of classpath? [07:11] Yes. [07:11] ok, so in that case we also have the issue that libgnujaf-java and libjaxp1.2-java depend on classpath [07:11] So, all these uploads of Java crud I was doing a few months ago, basically I was just converting packages to gcj. [07:12] and there are still more [07:12] Apparently. [07:12] I didn't have the cool tool you're using. ;) [07:13] we ought to publish its output someplace regularly, if we don't already [07:13] I shall quickly patch up those two. [07:14] are the other packages in that list sane already? [07:15] if you could spend a little time writing a short howto for doing java packages the right way in Ubuntu, we could distribute this workload a bit [07:15] or does something like that already exist? [07:16] Not really. [07:16] The problem is Java itself has no such howto. [07:16] C comes in autoconf, or a makefile. [07:16] Java comes in ... sometimes ant. [07:16] Free java more than not comes in a hacked together custom weird thing. ;0 [07:17] We need a comprehensive policy, really. [07:17] Lots of ideas floating around, but few are written down. [07:18] I mean along the lines of what you just told me [07:18] use this compiler, this JVM, which packages to depend and build-depend on [07:18] Debian suffers from the same problem really. Just not many Java hackers. [07:18] we have even fewer, I'm sure [07:18] JavaPackagingProcess maybe [07:19] but given a clear direction to go in, we have quite a few people who are interested in getting packages into line with policy so that everything fits together nicely [07:19] I never updated that hting. =/ [07:19] of course, they have their hands mostly full with the C++ transition at the moment [07:20] JavaPackagingProgress? [07:20] I don't see a ...Process [07:20] yeah, Progress has a bit of the right stuff [07:20] jeff had a page before, trying to find it [07:21] JavaIntegration. Out of date. [07:22] pfff, #ubuntu is no help [07:22] okay, I have a new laptop which won't run my existing install [07:22] and I don't wanna reinstall [07:22] I've narrowed it down to modules that need to be loaded in the initrd [07:22] I just gotta figure out which ones :) [07:23] only ones that should matter are the ones for hte storage device, right? [07:24] yeah. and loading other modules from the fs, but I think that's probably covered :) [07:24] that's what's broken incidentally. the existing kernel isn't detecting the hdd. [07:26] brb hope i got x fixed [07:30] who is working on eclipse? how is it going? === wasabi [~wasabi@c-67-174-81-195.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:31] wasabi : Better? [07:31] thank goodness [07:31] yeah. [07:31] reinstalled all of X from hoary. [07:31] There has got to be an easier way to figure out what consitutes "all of X" [07:32] haha [07:32] As it becomes more modular, it'll be harder, not easier (but that's what dependencies are for) [07:32] "dpkg -l"gre[ ^x" 8) [07:32] er [07:32] "dpkg -l|grep ^x" 8) === Simira [~Simira@179.80-202-212.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:33] I guess having a program that you can say "give me all of xserver-xorg" and it would spit out it's complete dependency chain [07:33] that might help === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.57.102] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:33] er, or even... [07:33] oh, forget it [07:33] depends on what you mean by "X" :) [07:35] mdz uploaded a fixed libgnujaf. What was the other one? [07:37] ok, so in that case we also have the issue that libgnujaf-java and libjaxp1.2-java depend on [07:37] classpath [07:40] hi [07:40] I've found a bug in tk8.3 [07:41] causes a broken build of gnu-smalltalk-2.1.x [07:41] whats the best way to get that fixed for breezy, and is there any point in doing a fix for hoary? (I'd like to get a fixed gnu-smalltalk in hoary-universe if possible) === justdave [~dave@66-227-241-236.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:47] lifeless : File a bug, with a patch if you have one. [07:48] infinity: haven't found the cause... === BeerDump [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:49] but the vuild tkConfig.sh (/usr/lib/tk8.3/tkConfig.sh) has a CINCLUDE path it offers of '# no special path is needed' [07:49] ^^ WTF CRACK^^ === justdave [~dave@66-227-241-236.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:00] Those two packages were uploaded. I'm going to bed now. [08:02] does init= get ignored by initrd or something? [08:05] init is done post-initrd [08:05] what if I want a shell inside initrd? [08:06] then you should set DELAY to something in mkinitrd.conf and press enter [08:06] kay === Micksa wonders how much luck he'll have in there === astro76 [~james@astro76.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:10] how do I get the intstaller to do the initrd modprobe detection, without doing a complete install? [08:12] dammit, lsmod would be handy :) [08:19] how do you continue booting after the shell? [08:20] Micksa: these are more #ubuntu style questions [08:21] aw geez [08:21] I end up having to jump between here and there cos noone on there seems to know this stuff [08:21] this is a devel channel, please keep support questions in there :) [08:22] Micksa: if you are offering a ptch, or figuring out how to patch it, its on topic here ;) [08:22] if you are essentially just using it ... [08:26] bugs in main : are they still bugzilla ? [08:26] okay, I got one :) [08:27] lifeless: yes [08:27] I'm looking at the initrd scripts and by the look of it there IS no clean way to continue boot after the initrd shell [08:27] cos it gets exec'd, and in the middle of /linuxrc, which seems to do half the work [08:28] Micksa: then you do the rest of the stuff that /linuxrc does and execs /sbin/init from there. Or you fix the problem, then reboot. [08:30] fabbione: pong [08:31] daniels: what's the status with xorg -21? [08:31] broken xbase-clients is causing FTBFS in the buildd [08:34] fabbione: within the next 24h, hopefully [08:34] daniels: ok [08:36] infinity: could you read https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11444 and tell me if I've made sense ? [08:36] daniels: did X at any point tell apps that its include path should be '# no special path needed' ? [08:37] lifeless: no. [08:37] daniels: ah well, not that source then ;) [08:37] lifeless: best practice has been #include (or heh [08:39] tk8.3 has a spethial config value [08:39] see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11444 [08:39] aw f*ckage [08:39] malone hates me [08:40] lifeless : That's a pretty... Sparse bug report. :) [08:40] so I can't file the bug on gnu-smalltalk [08:40] lifeless : What does that break, and how? [08:41] infinity: everything that builds against tk8.3 in the officially proscribed manner [08:41] infinity: such as the gnu-smalltalk blox environment [08:41] Does it cause them to FTBFS, or produce broken binaries? [08:41] depends on the package [08:41] yay for braindead upstream? [08:41] packages that /require/ tk will FTBFS [08:42] packages that have optional features will have those features silently disappear thanks to autoconf being nice [08:42] the latter is what lead me down this path [08:42] lifeless : Alright, find one of those and link up the build log, svp. Then someone might be able to make sense of why it's a bug. :) [08:42] ("one of those" meaning "one that's FTBFS") [08:42] infinity: uh [08:42] why ? [08:42] Alternately, point us at a broken binary. I don't care. Either. [08:42] try this : export CFLAGS="# this is not valid" [08:42] then build *anything* [08:43] it. wont. build. [08:43] Okay, fair enough. But I wasn't aware until just now that packages actually use tkBuild.sh to produce CFLAGS lines. [08:43] I've rebuilt tk locally via debuild, it generates a good tkConfig.sh file [08:43] so I can't give a source package patch. [08:44] Keen. And it almost certainly would have in the past as well. [08:44] I have to presume that tk's configure script went haywire and build crud, and thats had a knock on effect once it landed in the archive [08:44] Alright, let me poke at it. === `anthony [~anthony@ekorp-203-63-137-225.eoff.ekorp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:45] what I think is the right thing is a simple rebuild of tk on all platforms with broken file, and then a rebuild of anything that people report bugs on. [08:45] i.e. I'd like to have gnu-smalltalk rebuilt, as I know its broken - thats how I got into this path. [08:45] it's right there in unix/tcl.m4.... Curious. [08:45] lifeless: no-one uses smalltalk anyway [08:45] daniels: pfft === Lathiat grins [08:46] infinity: tcl.m4 makes modern automakes cry. Loudly. [08:46] infinity: fuxked upstream then... thats NOT a valid path for XINCLUDES [08:46] infinity: right, line 1769 === rjo [~jordens@rjo.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:47] Mithrandir : I'm not surprised. Have you read it recently?... It's making me cry. [08:47] infinity: I can give a patch to set that to "" rather than "# no special path needed" [08:47] infinity: no, I try to get rid of it from my system when I can. [08:48] s/infinity/lifeless/ [08:48] lifeless : The problem is a bit deeper than that. Have you read tcl.m4? [08:48] infinity: read the related bit just now [08:48] lifeless: the day I could purge my system of tcl would be a very happy day. [08:48] well, gnu-smalltalk 2.1.10 has gtk support [08:48] lifeless : It's a fundamental difference between what tcl.m4 thinks that variable will be used for and what it actually IS used for, AFAICT. [08:48] which I'm about to enable in the package, so yay. but 2.1.8 is whats in hoary [08:49] google tells me that it is meant to be a -I line [08:49] and meant to be a valid one [08:49] It is in tkConfig.sh, yes. [08:50] (is meant to be, that is) [08:50] tkConfig.sh.in is where tkConfig comes from [08:50] I think this is a fallow bug and that tk was built with X headers in /usr/include or a pre-set CFLAGS or some such [08:51] and we've simply finally exposed it [08:51] would you like a patch to correct tcl.m4 [08:52] Yeah, I see what they were trying to do. [08:52] And why they're retarded. [08:52] lol [08:52] i'm all about exposing crappy code that used to work [08:53] I assume someone was hoping for the script to come out looking like: [08:53] TK_XINCLUDES='' # no special path needed [08:53] But just wasn't really paying attention to reality. === Mithrandir hoorays for ChangeLog,v revision 1.100 in pkg-config cvs. [08:54] Mithrandir: i thought it was all called 'pkgconfig' these days [08:54] daniels: nah, I'm moving it all to pkg-config from pkgconfig [08:54] ok, I have patch [08:55] lifeless : Just changing it to a blank variable if it = "nope", I assume? [08:55] and init to nothing [08:55] theres about 4 places to change [08:56] Or, not "nope", but empty. Whatever. :) [08:57] I only see two to change. [08:57] The "nope" instance should stay. It's breakage if there are NO X includes found at all. [08:58] uyhm [08:58] no, AC_MSG_RESULT is the feedback for that [08:58] if its meant to be a failure, that would be AC_MSG_FAIL [08:59] well, either way [08:59] the important bit is the two lines. [08:59] Oh, it should fail. Sure. And tcl.m4 should be completely rewritten too. I'm not going to fix either. :) [09:00] But I'll fix the obvious breakage. [09:01] ok. [09:01] Then I'll cheat and patch configure, cause i really don't want to see what an autoconf run will do to this. === lifeless discards his patch [09:02] so the million dollar question .. will this rebuild get done for hoary ? [09:02] as an update ? [09:03] Oh, nevermind. I wouldn't be the first to rerun autoconf on this source recently. [09:03] Guess I won't cheat. [09:04] How many packages in hoary did it affect that would also need to be rebuilt? [09:04] You might want to put such a list together, and slap that into the bug report. [09:04] I'll fix it in breezy, though. [09:04] GOOOOOOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS [09:06] hi jdub [09:06] what's scary is jdub is actually saying that approximately 90 minutes after I've gotten up, for the last week. [09:07] and he's been travelling around half the world. [09:07] whats the reverse-depends tool ? [09:08] hey jdub [09:08] lifeless : apt-cache rdepends === pitti [~pitti@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:08] Mithrandir: IRC scripting for fun & profit [09:08] apt-cache rdepends tk8.3 [09:08] there you go. [09:08] Treenaks: I doubt it, since he says stuff afterwards which is jdub-responses to stuff people say to him. [09:09] * Add support for KPKG_ARCH override required for powerpc64 kernels. [09:09] Mithrandir: scary [09:09] ok.. now.. [09:09] who will pay beer for it? :) [09:09] fabbione: svenl will? [09:09] fabbione: come & get it ;) [09:11] morning [09:12] fabbione: so you'll upload rhcluster to universe first? [09:12] pitti: no.. it can't be uploaded to universe first... [09:12] germinate will pull in automatically in main [09:12] due to the b-d for lvm2 [09:12] so it doesn't not matter where i upload [09:12] it will be sucked in main automatically [09:13] at least the source [09:13] and libdlm-dev libdlm1 [09:13] the others will land in universe and it's fine for me [09:13] heh [09:13] nutballs :) [09:14] pitti: in any case it won't happen before the end of next week [09:14] pitti: some init scripts are missing.. even upstream :) [09:16] fabbione: ah, ok. Well, I'm not in a hurry with it [09:16] neither am i [09:16] it's a quite delicate package to install all together [09:17] since it affects the boot process in an early stage [09:17] and there are some services startup order that still needs to be evaluated === joolz [~joolz@kiar.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:20] |blt === pitti enjoys reading dholbach's enthusiastic MOTU reports :-) [09:25] hehe yeah === joolz [~joolz@kiar.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:29] mvo, hi === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.57.102] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos_ [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:33] Hi carlos [09:33] morning [09:35] hey jsgotangco, morning all === Alessio [~Alessio@host30-3.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:43] Riddell: here? === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net === julien [julien@feng.planet-work.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [~spacey@145.33.144.138] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:51] mvo: ping [09:52] doko: pong [09:56] shit, anyone read polish? [09:57] dzien dobry [09:57] hehe [09:58] opi is polish but he's nowhere now === chmj [~d3vic3@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:03] chmj, hey how's it going [10:03] jdub, #ubuntu-pl (not sure if anyone is there...) === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-25-24.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:07] Hey seb128 [10:07] hey pitti! [10:08] how are you? [10:08] jdub, forget about #ubuntu-pl...it's empty (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LoCoTeamList is out of date...) === stub [~stub@203-217-37-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === pizzathief [~Ilikepizz@adsl-130-26.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-38-174.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:21] hey second seb [10:22] hey hey pitti :) [10:22] I just have my daily IP change at 10:15 now, grrrr === vuntz [~vuntz@volin.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:24] seb128_: you can't change that time? [10:24] I can, I just forget to reconnect before going to bed [10:24] reconnecting at 4 am should be a good time... [10:25] yep, but I'm not awake at this hour === vuntz_ [~vuntz@volin.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:25] seb128_: right, that's why it is a good time :-) [10:25] bah, I'm not the only one [10:25] Hi vuntz_ [10:25] hey vuntz_ vuntz :) [10:26] hi all === koke [~koke@155.210.13.152] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:34] daniels: do you know about the repetitive postinst failure of xbase-clients because of some xkbcomp weirdness? [10:38] pitti: isn't it the "yes, xbase-clients is broken. no, it's not fixed yet." part of the topic? [10:38] oops, right [10:38] sorry [10:39] :-) === vuntz_ is now known as vuntz === uniq [charlie@gw.ipv6.lnix.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:44] ogra: ping [10:44] pitti: fabbione did give him a deadline ... ;-) === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:03] doko: no i didn't :) [11:03] but i am sure he will love to update asap, before strange things will happen to his house :P [11:06] fabbione: like a 20 meters high solid metal "X" falling on his roof? === mpt [mpt@210-55-161-180.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === opi [~emil@nat0.mnc.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:08] pitti: ahahha === alerim [~alerim@voltaire-103-1-85.net1.nerim.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Nuffing [~JaneW@wbs-146-178-239.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:10] we should sponsor an ad in a local newspaper: free beer at daniels until X is fixed ;-) [11:12] :D === Treenaks books a plane to Aussieland === zeedo [~zeedo@www.reboot-robot.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === martink_ [~martin@p54B38F5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:22] whoa, libmono in main === jdub is doing a massive mirror sync [11:24] JaneW, hi === JIJI [MAW@p2135-ipbf606marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [~spacey@145.33.144.138] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jk24 [~jk24@212.234.146.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:35] Hi, i think there is a problem with xfonts-base : when it install it does a /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale (i don't know where in the postinstall) but xutils install mkfontscale on /usr/bin, then after a dist-upgrade, Xorg cannot found the fixed font [11:35] jk24: see topic :) [11:36] jdub, not xbase-clients, xfont-base ! [11:36] :) [11:37] seb128: I now have a prototype that dumps a /tmp/crashrep..