[01:59] <mdke> hi all
[02:00] <mdke> omg
[08:56] <venda> African Greetings
[08:59] <venda> jdub: wil be keeping us posted on developments in yelp
[09:00] <venda> opps will you be ..
[10:35] <venda> Anyone up to merging the PPC stuff into FAQ Guide?
[11:04] <mdke> morning all
[11:06] <sivang> morning mdke 
[11:07] <sivang> froud-away: ping
[11:08] <sivang> venda: ping, what's up with the nickname changw? ;-)
[11:09] <sivang> mdke: has he dropped he older nickname?
[11:09] <mdke> just when he's on his laptop i think
[11:11] <sivang> mdke: interestingly enough, I got "dumped" by that publisher in an update email last night,
[11:12] <sivang> mdke: I wonder what's froud's status :-)
[11:12] <mdke> which publisher?
[11:12] <sivang> mdke: weren't you here when we discussed how's  a publiher trying to "work out" the doc team
[11:12] <sivang> mdke: in writing an ubuntu book
[11:13] <sivang> mdke: anyway, I'm interested in posting my perliminary TOC to the wiki, and hoefully interested people would follow it to produce a special book to help a complete newbs to linux adjust to Ubuntu
[11:13] <mdke> sivang, i sort of skimread the scrollback
[11:13] <sivang> mdke: ah nice, what do you think?
[11:13] <mdke> i didn't really get it ;)
[11:14] <mdke> sivang, what sort of special book did you have in mind?
[11:14] <venda> sivang: do it in svn
[11:14] <sivang> mdke: what's the license of the wiki these days?
[11:14] <mdke> sivang, is there no similar book already being worked on?
[11:14] <mdke> sivang, no idea *laughs*
[11:14] <venda> same as svn
[11:15] <sivang> venda: hey Sean, sup?
[11:15] <venda> sivang: tesim et ha avoda be svn
[11:15] <venda> lo liftoach be wiki
[11:15] <sivang> venda: Sababa, aval tagid lee ma ha rishayon shelo?
[11:16] <venda> whose idea
[11:16] <sivang> venda: Tageed, Manning deebroo eitcha me etmol?
[11:16] <venda> sivang: od lo
[11:16] <mdke> english pls
[11:17] <sivang> mdke: :-)
[11:17] <mdke> *grins*
[11:18] <mdke> so sivang is there no similar book already being worked on?
[11:19] <sivang> mdke: not that we could see, although jdub noted to a germen book about ubunut recently published
[11:19] <mdke> yes i saw that
[11:20] <mdke> sivang, so the Userguide doesn't interest you?
[11:20] <sivang> mdke: I am going to commit it to the svn, so you will be able to see where my idea follow in the perliminary TOC o created
[11:20] <sivang> mdke: it's cool,. but we need something introductry for Ubuntu
[11:20] <sivang> mdke: so I will be able to tell my windows addict freinds to take a look at
[11:20] <mdke> that is intended to be as introductory as possible
[11:20] <venda> sivang: you need to send public pgp keys to elmo
[11:21] <mdke> sivang, if you have some feedback on the userguide being too advanced, I'd be very interested because its intended to people who are TOTALLY new to Ubuntu
[11:21] <venda> svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[11:22] <sivang> mdke: ok, I don
[11:22] <mdke> do/don't?
[11:22] <sivang> mdke: don't mind ideas taken from my commit into the users guide, 
[11:22] <sivang> mdke: I just want to have this in our repor under the licenses as a means of "protection"
[11:22] <mdke> sivang, well if they are similar i feel it would be cool if you would work on the userguide itself
[11:23] <sivang> mdke: ofcourse
[11:23] <venda> chaps I think it is better to work on User Guide
[11:23] <mdke> i don't like the idea of two books being worked on which have the same user target
[11:23] <venda> +1
[11:23] <mdke> the userguide is very young and it can be changed a lot, i'm v interested to see sivang 's TOC
[11:23] <venda> it is better to focus on making User Guide a good book
[11:23] <sivang> venda: true
[11:24] <venda> sivang: can you merge your ideas into user guide
[11:24] <sivang> venda: however, I suspect my rather wide introduction could frustrate other users who have already knowlege about linux wanting to use the book
[11:24] <sivang> venda: first let me put this list so we won't loose it ;-)
[11:24] <mdke> sure
[11:24] <sivang> venda: second, I promise to try to :-)
[11:24] <mdke> thanks
[11:25] <venda> sivang: lets see it and then we can decide
[11:25] <sivang> venda: I am also going to commit my email corrospondance with them,
[11:25] <venda> I think our collective approach will do the best thing
[11:25] <mdke> venda, btw I wanted to ask, what is the help viewer that openoffice uses?
[11:25] <venda> mdke: its their own
[11:26] <mdke> ...
[11:26] <mdke> does it have a name?
[11:26] <venda> Hmm dunno
[11:26] <venda> why
[11:26] <mdke> its nice
[11:27] <venda> yes so if FF
[11:27] <mdke> its light tho
[11:27] <venda> but as you can see from the list all talk about helpviewers is a time waster
[11:27] <mdke> yes
[11:28] <venda> I am not sure that we should change our strategy on the notion that one or other viewer will support what it we are doing
[11:28] <venda> I hope others on the team agree with me on this
[11:28] <mdke> venda, i'm not sure
[11:28] <venda> mdke: expand
[11:29] <mdke> ok
[11:29] <mdke> its a chicken and egg thing
[11:29] <mdke> you say the help viewer doesn't support what we are doing
[11:29] <venda> right
[11:29] <mdke> but the only reason for that is that we haven't limited what we are doing to what the help viewer will support
[11:30] <mdke> e.g. by doing the faqgude in q+a
[11:30] <venda> why settle for less?
[11:30] <mdke> i partially agree
[11:30] <mdke> but
[11:31] <mdke> i think i told you already, i felt that ubuntu wouldn't be interested in shipping a new help viewer
[11:31] <mdke> so i felt that going ahead without them was dangerous
[11:31] <venda> I am not shipping a new help viewer
[11:31] <mdke> i thought you were
[11:31] <venda> no
[11:31] <mdke> what was that screenshot then?
[11:31] <venda> I said I would like to develop a help viewer
[11:32] <venda> that is a drawing of a web-based app
[11:32] <venda> the user agent can be any browser
[11:32] <venda> it is HTML + CSS + JSCRIPT
[11:32] <mdke> i don't have a problem with us shipping html instead of xml, but yelp should probably be the Ubuntu help viewer i feel, if they can get searching implemented, then that will help
[11:32] <venda> Great if they do, but Yelp also displays HTML
[11:33] <mdke> thats what I mean
[11:33] <venda> the problem is the XSLs that are in Yelp
[11:33] <mdke> but at the same time, i'm probably not going to get involved with the email because I don't have the expertise
[11:33] <venda> Yelp trys to perform a dynamic transformation
[11:33] <venda> It does not support many of the auto processing features we can usewith docbook
[11:34] <venda> the requirements list shows that
[11:34] <venda> qanda is not a big job for them to do
[11:34] <venda> but the gnome team dont use faq so they just dont support it
[11:34] <venda> I can understand this
[11:35] <mdke> well the faq can ship as html and be viewed in yelp right?
[11:35] <venda> but why should we not be able to use FAQ format
[11:35] <venda> yes
[11:35] <mdke> thats ok then
[11:35] <venda> everything can be shipped as html and viewed in yelp
[11:36] <venda> faq is a good example
[11:36] <venda> I am adding kubuntu and ubuntu profiles and PPC
[11:37] <venda> yelp wont support profiling
[11:37] <mdke> will yelp handle that?
[11:37] <venda> no
[11:37] <mdke> then don't add the profiling
[11:37] <mdke> otherwise the docs which you add it to won't be usable with Ubuntu
[11:37] <venda> but if I transform to HTML they can view it and we can manage the target books with less overhead
[11:38] <venda> i18n job is also made easier
[11:38] <mdke> but will yelp handle the profiling in html?
[11:38] <venda> there is no profile in the html
[11:38] <mdke> so it makes 3 htmls?
[11:38] <venda> yes
[11:38] <mdke> ok thats fine
[11:38] <mdke> that's what i meant
[11:38] <venda> from a single source
[11:38] <venda> ok I must go now
[11:38] <mdke> right 
[11:38] <venda> I must go out
[11:38] <mdke> have a nice weekend
[11:38] <venda> c ya b b later
[01:28] <sivang> mdke: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UserGuide
[01:41] <sivang> mdke: this is what I Have been talking about
[01:41] <sivang> _froud_: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UserGuide
[01:42] <mdke> sivang, merci, will look at it later on, gtg out right now
[01:42] <mdke> thanks
[01:53] <sivang> mdke: no prob, as along as we keep stuff in the community :-)
[01:54] <Kinnison> Morning people
[01:56] <sivang> hey Kinnison ,  !
[01:56] <Kinnison>  !
[01:56] <Kinnison> How are you today?
[01:58] <sivang> Kinnison: fine I guess , bit frustraed due to the mass desire to rewrite code that partially already exists, and can be used to build and improve on
[01:58] <sivang> Kinnison: referring to some specs from UDU
[01:58] <sivang> Kinnison: specifically, all the buzz about System/GNOME settings and managment tool
[01:58] <sivang> Kinnison: tools, even
[01:59] <sivang> Kinnison: I mean, it's true that most of the backedns are perlish, but that doesn't mean we have to toss them altogether
[02:00] <sivang> Kinnison: and python isn't probably the answer to everything ;-)
[02:11] <sivang> Kinnison: Anyway, I'm a bit sick, I'll hit the bed, see you later!
[02:11] <sivang> Kinnison: bye
[04:26] <venda> any free choices above IDLE for learning Python
[06:04] <sivang> venda: ping
[09:48] <venda> good night ppl
[09:49] <venda> I have started porting kudos.berlios.de into FAQ Guide. Anyone wanting to do some work in this area is welcome.
[09:49] <venda> There should be enough example in the FAQ Guide now so that people know how to markup for profiling between GNOME and KDE
[09:50] <venda> I could really use some help on this as Kudos is big
[09:50] <venda> and I would like to get it complete in as short a time possible