[12:08] <herve> ?
[12:12] <herve> dholbach see addicted to making new packages :-)
[12:14] <\sh> hehe
[12:14] <herve> s/see/seems
[12:18] <ivoks> :)
[12:22] <DanielN> good nicht all
[12:22] <DanielN> night
[12:22] <DanielN> argh
[12:22] <ivoks> night
[12:22] <\sh> cu DanielN
[12:24] <ivoks> hm...
[12:24] <ivoks> lots of new goodies in breezy :)
[12:29] <\sh> now it goes...python-kde3 is coming...can u here it?
[12:31] <herve> I like reading the english mistakes of german people
[12:31] <herve> it helps me understand the german pronounciation :-)
[12:32] <\sh> yeahme to
[12:32] <\sh> hear ;)
[12:32] <Amaranth> i love users
[12:32] <ivoks> :)
[12:32] <\sh> i'm thinking to fast , faster then I can move my fingers ;)
[12:32] <herve> that and ogra always saying "then" when he means "then"
[12:32] <Amaranth> one of them sent me a translation for smeg and another actually wrote the translation code for me
[12:32] <herve> quite many germans people do the same mistake
[12:33] <Amaranth> the code to generate pot files and compile conversions and etc
[12:33] <herve> Amaranth, yes, I'm managing a project at this time
[12:33] <herve> I'm the user/developer wanting to push the project further :-)
[12:33] <herve> Amaranth, gettext?
[12:33] <Amaranth> don't suppose any of you know how to deal with translations and .desktop files
[12:34] <Amaranth> xgettext, yeah
[12:34] <\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/downloads$ w
[12:34] <\sh>  00:34:04 up  9:34,  4 users,  load average: 7,11, 4,72, 3,35
[12:34] <\sh> hmmm
[12:34] <Amaranth> i mean, i know you do Name[de] =whatever but is there a way to use gettext and etc to generate that for you?
[12:34] <\sh> my laptop is melting ;)
[12:34] <herve> not that I know
[12:35] <herve> \sh, try as I do, place an usb fan towards it :-)
[12:35] <Amaranth> ok, i'll just have to take patches against the .desktop files
[12:35] <herve> (a usb...)
[12:35] <\sh> herve: hahaha :)
[12:35] <\sh> an usb is correct ;)
[12:35] <\sh> herve: there is no place anymore for an usb fan :)
[12:35] <herve> no, "u" sounds like a consomn (?)
[12:35] <herve> so "a" is needed
[12:36] <herve> unless you pronounce it as "ou" of course :-)
[12:37] <\sh> i thought [uiao]  needs an "an"   ;)
[12:37] <\sh> think i need another holiday in an anglosaxxon country ;)
[12:38] <herve> it depends on how the pronounciation of the word begins
[12:38] <herve> pronouncing "i" is a mess in english
[12:38] <herve> there are like three ways to pronounce it
[12:38] <lamont> quantlib looks to be a dpkg-architecture victim
[12:38] <herve> depending on the origin of the word, etc.
[12:39] <herve> hi lamont
[12:39] <\sh> herve: so it's an ubuntu linux, but a usb fan?
[12:39] <herve> I think so
[12:39] <herve> it's "oubountou", not "ioubountou"
[12:40] <lamont> one could argue an USB, or a USB...
[12:40] <herve> but my english skills are melting like ice
[12:40] <\sh> or an universal serial bus ;)
[12:40] <lamont> but given that USB is generally pronounced by stating the 3 letters, and the named letter U doesn't start with a vowel.....
[12:40] <herve> \sh, no, "iouniversal" ;()
[12:40] <lamont> herve: an universe
[12:41] <herve> you teach me that one
[12:41] <\sh> i pronounce it "younevercal" ,-)
[12:41] <ivoks> junivers
[12:41] <herve> no, sounds strange to me
[12:42] <\sh> 7topic MOTU english lessons, please join and listen
[12:42] <herve> \sh, python-kde3 still hasn't reach my mailbox
[12:43] <\sh> herve: it compiles :)
[12:43] <herve> repeat after me, "the cat is driving the car"
[12:43] <herve> \sh, at yours or the buildd? I mean I have not seen any announce on breezy-changes
[12:43] <\sh> "the car is catching the cat"
[12:43] <\sh> herve: at mine
[12:44] <herve> that's why I can't hear it then
[12:44] <herve> we're too far away from each other!
[12:44] <\sh> herve: not too far away ..:)
[12:44] <herve> well, like 10 hours of train
[12:44] <herve> and something like 800 km for a bird
[12:45] <herve> for a european swallow (?) I mean
[12:45] <herve> not carrying any coconut
[12:47] <\sh> hmm...coconut
[12:52] <\sh> g'night gentlemen...\sh is off to bed
[12:52] <herve> night
[12:52] <ivoks> night
[12:53] <herve> I won't be long either
[12:53] <herve> just by the time I file another dozen bugs :-)
[12:58] <herve> night itou
[01:14] <Amaranth> is the new X safe?
[01:16] <chillywilly> who broke my GUI? ;)
[01:16] <chillywilly> fess up
[01:18] <Amaranth> you GUI?
[01:18] <Amaranth> your
[01:19] <chillywilly> yes, the one installed on my computer
[01:19] <chillywilly> hence is is *mine*
[01:19] <chillywilly> muwaahahahaha
[01:20] <chillywilly> um, anyway...carry on
[01:53] <tseng> Amaranth: works for me
[01:54] <tseng> most working breezy xorg to date
[01:54] <Amaranth> tseng: good, because i already upgraded
[01:55] <tseng> heh
[01:59] <ajmitch> hi
[01:59] <tseng> hi ajmitch
[02:10] <dooglus> where should I report 'universe' bugs in breezy?
[02:11] <dooglus> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ ?  or is there somewhere separate?
[02:12] <ajmitch> launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
[02:12] <dooglus> wow, really?
[02:14] <dooglus> how would I know to use that site instead of the regular bugzilla?  is there a webpage somewhere?  or how?
[02:14] <ajmitch> dooglus: would I tell you a lie? :)
[02:15] <ajmitch> have a look in the channel topic
[02:17] <dooglus> ajmitch: I believe you, but if I hadn't stumbled upon this channel (and it does have quite an odd name) then I would have submitted the bug to bugzilla.u.c...  and it wouldn't have told me not to
[02:18] <ajmitch> yes, and it's listed on the wiki as well, I believe
[02:18] <dooglus> what about bugs in main for breezy?  where do they go?
[02:18] <ajmitch> bugzilla
[02:18] <dooglus> and bugs in main for hoary?
[02:18] <ajmitch> bugzilla
[02:19] <dooglus> is there a field that I can use to speficy whether the bug shows up in hoary or breezy?
[02:19] <ajmitch> probably write in the comment
[02:20] <dooglus> ajmitch: ok, fine.  thanks.
[02:21] <dooglus> I just noticed.  if I go to bugzilla and try to 'add a bug', it offers a link to launchpad for 'ubuntu universe' bugs...
[02:21] <dooglus> however, it's right at the end, and the 3rd link was to bugzilla, and that's apparently for "any issues with anything distributed as part of Ubuntu".
[02:22] <dooglus> perhaps that message should be clearer - is 'universe' part of ubuntu or not?  it's not clear.
[02:23] <ajmitch> perhaps you could file a bug about it in bugzilla? :)
[02:30] <dooglus> heh, funny you should say that...
[02:30] <dooglus> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11488
[02:50] <dooglus> ajmitch: does launchpad work?
[02:50] <dooglus> I just tried using it to report a bug and got a 'system error'
[02:53] <dooglus> "Big bugs have little bugs upon their backs to bite 'em;
[02:53] <dooglus> Little bugs have smaller bugs, and so on, ad infinitum."
[02:58] <Amaranth> oh yeah, malone was broken last time i tried
[02:59] <dooglus> ugh.
[03:25] <ajmitch> malone has issues
[04:04] <tseng> hi
[04:10] <zul> does anyone have and adm8211 based card?
[04:11] <zul> i want to see if it has sysfs support?
[05:42] <lamont> asedriveiiie needs gcc-4.0 liove
[05:42] <lamont> love, even
[05:42] <lamont> and kxl needs xorg love
[05:43] <lamont> hk-classes: g++-4.0 love
[05:44] <lamont> raidutils, schooltool: g++-4.0
[05:44] <lamont> giblib: xorg
[05:44] <lamont> libast: gcc-4.0
[05:45] <lamont> allegro4: gcc-4.0
[05:52] <lamont> db2: gcc-4.0
[05:57] <lamont> g'night all
[08:28] <\sh> morning
[08:31] <\sh> python-kde3 upload now
[09:46] <\sh> Riddell: ping
[10:09] <ivoks> pong :)
[10:11] <\sh> lol
[10:16] <ivoks> Mithrandir: ping
[10:16] <Mithrandir> ivoks: yes?
[10:16] <ivoks> Mithrandir: i have two requests :)
[10:17] <ivoks> Mithrandir: mpich and lam4-dev
[10:17] <Mithrandir> done
[10:17] <ivoks> thank you
[10:17] <Mithrandir> np
[10:18] <ivoks> it's great to be member of this great team
[10:19] <ivoks> if I can do anything for you guys, just ask
[10:19] <\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/shermannpics/events/ish_buddies_20050602/?g2_navId=x6e802011
[10:19] <\sh> the best cable tv engineers in cologne, germany :)
[10:29] <\sh> strike
[10:29] <\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/python-kde3/3.11.4+snapshot20050316-0ubuntu2/
[10:29] <\sh> Riddell: u can test python-kde3 ;)
[11:08] <ivoks> ajmitch: ping
[11:09] <ivoks> ajmitch: BIG PING :)
[11:09] <ivoks> ajmitch: < fabbione> ivoks: the patch isn't extremely bad.. if you can get people to work on userland, i can consider patching the kernel
[11:10] <Lathiat> ivoks: waz dat fir>
[11:10] <Lathiat> for
[11:10] <SquishyWaffle> Greetings, I just stumbled my way through creating my first package :)
[11:11] <ivoks> Lathiat: layer7 filtering
[11:11] <Lathiat> ivoks: specifics?
[11:11] <ivoks> Lathiat: firewall that would filter traffic based on protocol, not ports
[11:12] <Lathiat> ivoks: sounds cpu intensive :)
[11:12] <ivoks> Lathiat: so you would say, HTTP OK, FTP NOTOK
[11:12] <ivoks> Lathiat: it isn't that much...
[11:12] <ivoks> i filter 300 computers with that...
[11:12] <Lathiat> ivoks: but does it do it on like every packet
[11:12] <Lathiat> ivoks: or like start of connection
[11:12] <ivoks> Lathiat: http://l7-filter.sourceforge.net/technicaldetails
[11:13] <ivoks> it checks only first package
[11:13] <ivoks> packet :)
[11:13] <Lathiat> ivoks: ah, sounds cool
[11:14] <Lathiat> ivoks: but i mean like, a bit of data needs to pass for these things, does it just rudely reset it if none of it matches?
[11:14] <ivoks> Lathiat: it isn't that cpu intensive
[11:14] <ivoks> it's quite nice
[11:14] <Lathiat> ivoks: or does it just listen to both sides before passing any data
[11:14] <Lathiat> ivoks: because assumedly one side will send something first
[11:14] <ivoks> ?
[11:15] <ivoks> Lathiat: you define will you be allowed to establish connection
[11:15] <ivoks> so.. it's posibble to ban all incoming HTTP requests
[11:15] <ivoks> but you will be able to establish any HTTP connection outside
[11:15] <ivoks> like normal netfilter
[11:16] <\sh> ivoks: this is not new
[11:16] <ivoks> acctually, this is just a appendix for netfilter :)
[11:16] <ivoks> \sh: of course it's not new :)
[11:16] <ivoks> \sh: but tell me, how would you ban any HTTP request on local maching from outside?
[11:17] <\sh> ivoks: securecomputing sidewinder
[11:17] <ivoks> you can't do that with netfilter the way it is now
[11:17] <ivoks> lol
[11:18] <\sh> ivoks: no joke...most of beautiful things of securecomputing is in there :)
[11:19] <ivoks> \sh: but you aren't telling me that everyone should buy sidewinder, aren't you? :)
[11:19] <\sh> ivoks: and I'm trained on it
[11:19] <ivoks> and it isn't free
[11:19] <ivoks> :)
[11:20] <ivoks> so, it's uselss to us
[11:20] <ivoks> like UNIX :)(
[11:21] <\sh> ivoks: the problem is, in a company I can't come with a solution for highsec and tell them: "hey, use this one, it's free, nobody give u a garanty or warranty, but it's working"
[11:23] <ivoks> \sh: i'm not telling about company
[11:23] <ivoks> \sh: i'm talking about home users
[11:23] <\sh> ivoks: does a home user need really layer7 filtering?
[11:23] <ivoks> \sh: i would say, yes
[11:24] <\sh> does a homeuser knows what layer7 filtering is?
[11:24] <ivoks> he doesn't need to know that he's using that
[11:24] <ivoks> home user wants "i want HTTP" "I want P2P
[11:24] <\sh> so we should make the same mistake like ms?
[11:24] <ivoks> but i don't want "that an that"
[11:24] <ivoks> ?
[11:25] <\sh> telling the user that he can secure himself, without a clue what he's doing?
[11:25] <ivoks> \sh: not without a clue
[11:25] <\sh> ivoks: most normal home users haven't any clue...this is the pitfall in MS thinking
[11:25] <ivoks> but home user doesn't want to know anything about iptables
[11:26] <\sh> ivoks: no, they want to have things like firestarter, or "personal firewalls"
[11:26] <ivoks> he just wants to work
[11:26] <ivoks> right
[11:26] <\sh> so a normal iptables packet filter does it for u. most propably he's using the packetfilter on his dsl router
[11:26] <\sh> he doesn't need layer7 filtering
[11:26] <\sh> but
[11:26] <ivoks> \sh: normal netfilter does not do it right
[11:27] <ivoks> you can't block fasttrack and allow http with netfilter
[11:27] <ivoks> without going to layer 7
[11:27] <ivoks> they use same ports (80)
[11:27] <\sh> a enterprise edition of * Linux for ISPs or SOHOs they need layer7 and more :)
[11:28] <\sh> whatever fasttrack is ;)
[11:28] <ivoks> \sh: p2p network
[11:28] <\sh> hmm........
[11:28] <ivoks> one of most popular..
[11:29] <ivoks> at least, it was :)
[11:29] <\sh> so the return port is 80?
[11:29] <doko> ajmitch: ping
[11:29] <ivoks> \sh: yes
[11:29] <\sh> ivoks: so it's different...
[11:29] <ivoks> \sh: http://www.kazaa.com/us/index.htm
[11:29] <\sh> http -> questioning port == 80
[11:30] <\sh> http -> answering port > 1024
[11:30] <\sh> fasttrack -> questioning port => ?
[11:30] <\sh> fastrack -> answering port == 80?
[11:30] <ivoks> yes
[11:30] <\sh> for what layer7 then?
[11:31] <\sh> filter incoming port of 80 and block it
[11:31] <\sh> or accept it
[11:31] <ivoks> ah...
[11:31] <ivoks> did you ever fight against p2p in your backyard? :)
[11:31] <\sh> it makes more sense, if u have a httpd running on your side, and u want to filter the incoming requests
[11:31] <\sh> ivoks: no...
[11:32] <ivoks> \sh: i did... closing ports is useless
[11:32] <\sh> ivoks: why? if u want to use fasttrack open port 80 incoming, if not, close it
[11:32] <ivoks> but it connects to other computers on port 80
[11:33] <ivoks> and you can deny outgoing traffic to 80
[11:33] <\sh> ivoks: thats outgoing
[11:33] <ivoks> s/can/can't/
[11:34] <ivoks> \sh: i started disscusion on ubuntu-devel, so I would appriciate any comments or sugestions
[11:34] <\sh> ivoks: of course u can :) install squid on one special machine, open port 8080 for all users, configure filter for fasttrack detection and deny all requests of this filter
[11:34] <\sh> the rest can go out, open outgoing connections from squid server to port 80 outside
[11:35] <ivoks> and what about other networks?
[11:35] <ivoks> that don't have same port all the time
[11:35] <ivoks> for example, winmx
[11:35] <ivoks> there is no way to filter it
[11:35] <\sh> ivoks: as I said, a firewall is not a software solution, it's a concept.
[11:35] <ivoks> \sh: i agree
[11:36] <ivoks> \sh: but you can't have squids on local machines
[11:36] <ivoks> well...
[11:36] <\sh> if u say: no p2p block all p2p ports..if one p2p network using common ports e.g. http, u need to filter on application level
[11:36] <ivoks> i have to go now
[11:36] <\sh> but this is not for homeusers
[11:36] <ivoks> topic is on ubundu-devel, please, comment there
[11:36] <\sh> if homeuser wants to have p2p -> open it, if not, close it
[11:37] <ivoks> \sh: problem is...
[11:37] <ivoks> \sh: does user know on what port p2p works?
[11:37] <ivoks> wouldn't it be easier "open p2p" "close p2p"?
[11:38] <ivoks> i think that is much better then "open 80, 4111, 2345, 1234, but close 1234 and 452"
[11:38] <ivoks> s/452/4551/ :)
[11:39] <ivoks> i really have to go now...
[11:39] <ivoks> see you
[11:49] <DanielN> morning
[11:51] <Treenaks> Which laptops work better in ubuntu? HP or Dell or both?
[11:58] <\sh> most of the things from HP is working nicely with ubuntu...but the irda port and the sd card reader is not working as expected.
[11:59] <\sh> for irda there is a solution with a separate piece of software, but the sd card reader will be difficult
[12:01] <doko> DanielN: morning
[12:03] <\sh> doko: u addicted package machine ;)
[12:11] <DanielN> mhm
[12:11] <DanielN> i'll try kubuntu now... never done that before :)
[12:30] <doko> DanielN: fix your outstanding C++ packages first ;-)
[12:36] <tseng> hi
[12:41] <\sh> argl
[12:41] <\sh> 500kg in less then 15 minutes
[12:41] <\sh> and what i'm doing now with 1000 music cds...i don't have place for it in my new flat
[12:48] <tseng> \sh: oh man my mom moved my stuff around at her house
[12:48] <tseng> \sh: dumped all my cds
[12:49] <tseng> all out of order and stuff
[12:49] <\sh> well..in this case, it wasn't my mom, it was my exwife who chased me out ;)
[12:51] <tseng> heh
[12:51] <tseng> i dont have any of those, luckily
[01:01] <\sh> hehe
[01:33] <herve> morning
[01:33] <tseng> hi
[01:40] <\sh> hey herve
[01:50] <\sh> herve: python-kde3 just reached your inbox ;)
[01:50] <herve> haven't read it yet :-)
[01:56] <tseng> oooh @ "Hide Read Messages"
[01:56] <tseng> perfect for breezy-changes
[02:00] <herve> hey, I need to read again the announces sometimes
[02:00] <herve> and TB is smart enough to point me to the first unread messag
[02:00] <tseng> herve: you can unhide it, obviously
[02:01] <tseng> i can actually have a huge ammount of mail and find stuff now, thanks to beagle magic
[02:01] <tseng> suprisingly i dont use it enough
[02:01] <Mithrandir> I need to make beagle talk to my imap server.
[02:02] <\sh> Mithrandir: the search of kmail is good enough :)
[02:03] <siretart> hi folks
[02:03] <herve> hi siretart
[02:04] <Mithrandir> \sh: that would imply installing kmail.  And if it doesn't index, you lose.
[02:05] <\sh> Mithrandir: well..indexing is done by cyrus imapd...thats enough ;)
[02:05] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@vawad ~ > du -sh ~/Maildir
[02:05] <Mithrandir> 7,0G    /home/tfheen/Maildir
[02:05] <Mithrandir> there's _no way_ I'm letting cyrus close to my mail. :-)
[02:05] <tseng> hah wow
[02:05] <tseng> 122M	.maildir
[02:06] <\sh> for my new imap spool...i'm on 288MB
[02:06] <Mithrandir> tseng: that's my inboxes (which means all spam, lists, etc filtered away) for 2004. :P
[02:06] <uniq> mine is 2.8G and curier-imap-ssl+kmail works just fine.
[02:07] <tseng> Mithrandir: ah, i /dev/null spam over a certain threshold
[02:07] <tseng> Mithrandir: so i only get about the bottom 3rd of it
[02:07] <Mithrandir> tseng: I refuse anything getting > 10 as the SA score.
[02:07] <tseng> i think mine is 7 or 8
[02:07] <Mithrandir> which still accounts for somewhere in the range of 30MB/month.
[02:08] <\sh> i still have to include my old archive
[02:08] <tseng> i need to fiddle with something, im starting to get a few mails a day to my inbox
[02:08] <tseng> and yes I retrain it every week or 2
[02:08] <tseng> on uncaught.
[02:08] <herve> ho no, not "I have the biggest one" again :-)
[02:09] <tseng> herve: i see your schwartz is as big as mine?
[02:09] <herve> I refuse to answer!
[02:10] <tseng> watch the movie.
[02:11] <\sh> your "schwartz" ?
[02:11] <tseng> spaceballs
[02:11] <\sh> sad, i saw it only in german
[02:11] <tseng> hm
[02:11] <tseng> i imagine that takes alot out of it
[02:12] <\sh> well..i could imagine what the meaning is
[02:13] <\sh> ah
[02:14] <\sh> "may the schwartz be with you" -> "Mge der Saft mit dir sein" ;)
[02:14] <\sh> http://dict.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/urlexp/20030328015533
[02:14] <tseng> Saft = juice?
[02:14] <tseng> iirc.
[02:14] <\sh> yeah
[02:14] <\sh> it's a bad translation
[02:14] <tseng> wow.
[02:16] <\sh> i think the word "schwartz" comes from the jewish language (jiddish)
[02:21] <siretart> there is a lot outdated stuff there, I cleaned a few things up, but still..
[02:22] <DanielN> ah herve, i should remind you, as you said ;)
[02:22] <siretart> does anyone know LorenzoHernandezGarciaHierro?
[02:25] <doko> DanielN: C++ ping again?
[02:27] <herve> siretart, he's trulux, no?
[02:27] <herve> DanielN, sure!
[02:28] <trulux> herve: ?
[02:29] <siretart> ah
[02:29] <DanielN> doko: i'm learning right now.. but i have a bit time tonight maybe
[02:29] <siretart> trulux: I've seen your selinux packages on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview. are they still for reviewing?
[02:30] <trulux> siretart: I think so
[02:30] <trulux> siretart: ask pitti
[02:30] <siretart> hm. okay
[02:34] <\sh> yes...the first "it works now" messages are coming for python-kde3 ;)
[02:35] <herve> DanielN, so "when" is to be reviewed,
[02:35] <herve> ?
[02:35] <DanielN> yeah
[02:54] <herve> DanielN, can you tell about the debian package on the author's page?
[02:55] <DanielN> herve: nothing to tell.. i began from scratch
[02:56] <herve> you didn't see it?
[02:57] <DanielN> no i didn't.. i saw that there's a binary deb.. but the source i didn't saw, until ivoks has tell me yesterday
[02:57] <herve> anyway, I have a problem
[02:57] <herve> dpkg-source: error: file when_1.0.23.orig.tar.gz has size 30420 instead of expected 30418
[02:58] <DanielN> hmm
[02:58] <DanielN> no idea
[02:59] <siretart> ok. ToReview cleaned up a bit
[03:01] <herve> siretart, how this page differs from MOTUNewPackages?
[03:01] <siretart> herve: ToReview are updated packages from existing one. NEW packages don't have hit either debian nor ubuntu
[03:03] <herve> hmm ok
[03:11] <herve> DanielN, but you checked what the author has set up for packaging?
[03:14] <ivoks> hi
[03:14] <herve> hi
[03:15] <\sh> doko: u will do the transition again for debian? :)
[03:16] <DanielN> herve: ???
[03:16] <herve> DanielN, the debian_stuff directory
[03:16] <ivoks> herve: he didn't removed it? :)
[03:21] <herve> I can guess from a comment you're a german speaking swiss :-)
[03:24] <shawarma> Hi! I'm a bit confused by the procedures for becoming a master of the universe... I have created a package, so there's no point in putting it into the UniverseCandidates as it's already made... What am I supposed to do?
[03:25] <\sh> if it's a new package (not in debian neither in ubuntu: MOTUNewPackages)
[03:25] <\sh> for becoming a MOTU u have to go the steps of "Ubuntu Member" -> "MOTU"
[03:25] <shawarma> \sh: Ok. What if it was already in Debian (it's not, but the next package might be)
[03:26] <herve> shawarma, MOTU is a special status you don't need to maintain packages
[03:26] <herve> \sh, you forgot a step :-)
[03:26] <\sh> install ubuntu?
[03:26] <\sh> oh now
[03:26] <\sh> -w
[03:26] <DanielN> herve
[03:26] <herve> shawarma, it would be better if it enters Debian first
[03:26] <\sh> create a wiki page..without a wiki page u won't  become a member ;)
[03:26] <DanielN> i deleted debian_stuff
[03:26] <herve> \sh, maintainer != motu
[03:26] <DanielN> as ivoks said to me
[03:27] <herve> DanielN, what? no leave it :-)
[03:27] <ivoks> :>
[03:27] <herve> you're supposed to be less instrusive as possible in the upstream package
[03:27] <ivoks> herve: come on
[03:27] <\sh> herve: he asked: [15:24]  <shawarma> Hi! I'm a bit confused by the procedures for becoming a master of the universe.
[03:27] <ivoks> that debian_stuff is for debian package
[03:27] <shawarma> I have to say that I'm not less confused now.. :-)
[03:28] <ivoks> shawarma: fist, you have to create your own wiki page
[03:28] <shawarma> I thought Masters of the universe was the group of maintainers of the universe.
[03:28] <shawarma> ivoks: Done.
[03:28] <\sh> shawarma: motus doesn't maintain packages...we r giving love to the packages ;)
[03:28] <ivoks> shawarma: then you have to apply for a Ubuntu Member
[03:28] <\sh> but a motu could be a package maintainer
[03:28] <shawarma> shawarma: But in order to become that I have to have done stuff, but I can't do stuff before I'm a member... Or?
[03:28] <shawarma> ivoks: That was for you..
[03:29] <\sh> shawarma: u can ask for reviewing and sponsored upload :)
[03:29] <\sh> shawarma: u can prepare your wiki page
[03:29] <ivoks> to become ubuntu member, you have to something for community
[03:29] <\sh> write documentation whatever ubuntu related for the community
[03:29] <herve> ivoks, it's harmless to leave it, and I don't like the idea of removing stuff in upstream packages
[03:29] <shawarma> \sh: 2 questions: What do you mean by "giving love"? Who do I ask for sponsorship?
[03:29] <ivoks> herve: well... ok
[03:30] <ivoks> no sponsorship here
[03:30] <\sh> shawarma: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
[03:30] <ivoks> everybody will help you
[03:30] <ivoks> damn..
[03:30] <ivoks> hdf5 needs a lot of patching :(
[03:30] <\sh> shawarma: we will review the packages and deciding then if it goes into the repos e.g.
[03:30] <\sh> ivoks: hahaha u have it ;)
[03:30] <ivoks> mine still didn't :)
[03:31] <ivoks> warning: the address of 'H5G_init_interface', will always evaluate as 'true'
[03:31] <\sh> ivoks: check the rules file
[03:31] <ivoks> i get like hunderts of these and a like :)
[03:31] <\sh> the package name depends on the rules and version of changelog
[03:31] <ivoks> \sh: package is ok...
[03:31] <\sh> its a mess
[03:31] <ivoks> source isn't nice for g++4
[03:31] <ivoks> or gcc4
[03:32] <\sh> ivoks: u checked the other page? with the debian bug reports?
[03:32] <ivoks> warning: ISO C90 does not support 'long long'
[03:32] <ivoks> \sh: nope :)
[03:32] <\sh> huahuahua
[03:32] <\sh> ivoks: this will be your masterpiece
[03:32] <ivoks> funny thing is...
[03:32] <ivoks> it compiles :)
[03:32] <\sh> warnings ;)
[03:32] <ivoks> just with 1000^7 warnings :)
[03:33] <shawarma> Ok. Now it's added to MOTUNewPackages... so now I just wait?
[03:33] <DanielN> herve: what about when now?
[03:34] <ivoks> typedef unsigned long long      hsize_t;
[03:34] <ivoks> someone was drunk when doing this :)
[03:34] <\sh> shawarma: sad but true
[03:34] <shawarma> \sh: It's only sad if the wait is long..
[03:34] <\sh> shawarma: right now we're in a cxx transition and it takes all our power
[03:34] <ivoks> shawarma: it is
[03:34] <\sh> shawarma: well...check d.b.o/wnpp ;)
[03:34] <ivoks> shawarma: now we are totally occupied with cxx
[03:35] <\sh> u will find packages waiting for >1 year..but we're faster
[03:35] <shawarma> \sh: I'd imagine. Debian is not the fastest organization in the world. :-)
[03:35] <herve> Daniel, continuing the review
[03:35] <\sh> shawarma: imagine we're only 20 ppl
[03:35] <\sh> 20?
[03:35] <ivoks> warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type
[03:36] <ivoks> man...
[03:36] <ivoks> :(((
[03:36] <\sh> ogra: recruiting ;)
[03:36] <ivoks> it's 4MB gizped messed source...
[03:36] <herve> ivoks, want an aspirin? :-)
[03:37] <shawarma> Can you explain this MOTU thing again? You are just the guys with upload privileges, or what? Or how do you differ from the package maintainers?
[03:38] <ivoks> \sh: there is new debian hdf5
[03:38] <ivoks> \sh: should i use that one? :)
[03:39] <herve> shawarma, yes we upload packages but that's only a part of it
[03:39] <herve> ivoks, I'd like a sync, yes
[03:39] <herve> shawarma, we upload because we fix packages and sync with debian
[03:39] <\sh> ivoks: sure
[03:39] <\sh> sync it, if it's not already
[03:39] <ivoks> ah, no new things in -3
[03:40] <herve> shawarma, the motus also approve new packages and new colleagues
[03:40] <ivoks> only fixes in debian/*
[03:40] <ivoks> damn... :(
[03:40] <herve> ivoks, still, sync it please
[03:40] <ivoks> herve: sure
[03:40] <ivoks> i was hoping for some patches :)
[03:40] <herve> like debian would care for gcc 4 for now ;-)
[03:41] <herve> but check upstream too
[03:41] <herve> you can sync a new one with -0ubuntu1 as the revision
[03:41] <ivoks> i know
[03:41] <ivoks> i did that with wifi-radar
[03:41] <shawarma> herve: Ok... I just got confused because on the MOTURecruitment page it says that if you want to become a MOTU, you go to the MaintainerCandidates page, and on the MOTU page it says to go to MOTURecruitment if you want to be a maintainer. I assumed MOTU == maintainer.
[03:42] <ivoks> wich still isn't uploaded :)
[03:42] <herve> shawarma, I know it's a mess, I felt the same :-)
[03:43] <siretart> hm. mesa is challenging :)
[03:43] <shawarma> herve: So I'm still not totally sure.. I guess I just want to be a regular maintainer (don't have time for all the stuff you guys apparantly do).. Where is that process outlined?
[03:44] <shawarma> herve: Sorry to bother you with all my stupid questions when you're so busy, I'm just very eager to get started on helping out.
[03:44] <ivoks> yes, there is new version
[03:45] <\sh> shawarma: follow the DD way
[03:45] <shawarma> \sh: Become Debian Developer first?
[03:45] <\sh> or put the package on MOTUNewPackages and ask for review + upload
[03:45] <\sh> shawarma: this is for us the best way...get the package inside debian, we sync
[03:45] <herve> shawarma, ask yourself two questions: what have you done for ubuntu so far, and what do you want to do as a maintaner?
[03:45] <shawarma> \sh: Stupid question: Where to as for review + upload?
[03:46] <\sh> shawarma: here? :)
[03:46] <herve> shawarma, you have to prove you're a valued member and you will bring help to the universe
[03:46] <ivoks> shawarma: you can start with porting hdf5 :)
[03:46] <herve> if it's just for making a package entering ubuntu, it's not worth the effort
[03:46] <\sh> rotfl
[03:47] <shawarma> \sh: I've tried to become a Debian Developer for ages, but I need signatures and stuff, and there aren't a lot of DD's around here to sign my key..
[03:47] <\sh> shawarma: there is another possibility
[03:47] <ivoks> shawarma: well, you need signatuers here too
[03:47] <\sh> shawarma: u can send at least your passport copy or whatever to them
[03:47] <ivoks> shawarma: but not only from ubuntu or debian developers
[03:47] <siretart> shawarma: what package are you talking about? why do I think it should be in ubuntu?
[03:48] <shawarma> lbtouch. it's a driver for a touchscreen found on Fujitsu Lifebooks.
[03:48] <shawarma> It should be in Ubuntu because I need the package and other people probably need it as well.
[03:49] <ivoks> oh, god, no...
[03:49] <siretart> shawarma: ah, sounds great.
[03:49] <ivoks> debian patch for hdf5 has...
[03:49] <ivoks> 96000 lines :(
[03:49] <ivoks> jesus...
[03:49] <shawarma> ivoks: Really? who can sign it besides them?
[03:50] <siretart> shawarma: I think it would very helpfull if there was a MOTU or ubuntu developer who could test your package
[03:50] <shawarma> siretart: Sure would. It's listed on the NewPackages page.
[03:51] <shawarma> It generates one of those -source-packages usable with the module-assistant.
[03:51] <\sh> siretart: it could go with the laptop testing
[03:51] <siretart> \sh: great idea!
[03:51] <ivoks> lol! i can't belive it
[03:51] <ivoks> source has comment like: /* Define if `dev_t' is a scalar */
[03:52] <\sh> shawarma: your package is on MOTUNewPackages?
[03:52] <ivoks> and debian maintainter fix it into:
[03:52] <shawarma> \sh: Yup.
[03:52] <ivoks>  /* Define if \`dev_t' is a scalar */
[03:52] <ivoks> what's with the \? :))))
[03:52] <ivoks> it's comment, doesn't get parsed :)
[03:53] <shawarma> ivoks: *G*
[03:54] <\sh> shawarma: i see what i can do
[03:54] <shawarma> \sh: You can search for lbtouch.
[03:54] <shawarma> \sh: That'd be great!
[03:55] <shawarma> \sh: there's no rush, I just want to be sure that I've done everything right and someone will look at it eventually.
[03:55] <shawarma> \sh: If adding it to MOTUNewPackages should be sufficient, I'll just wait.
[03:55] <\sh> shawarma: right now, we have a project with laptop testing..i think we will find one with a lifebook
[03:56] <shawarma> \sh: Ok. to make it work 100%, you need an X-driver, which I'm going to package later today.
[03:58] <\sh> hehe...we need this as well
[03:59] <ivoks> ok, i'll need weeks for hdf5
[03:59] <ivoks> and C/C++ bibles
[04:00] <herve> and a couple of gurus :-)
[04:00] <ivoks> 100, to be specific :)
[04:00] <ivoks> this is a mess
[04:00] <ivoks> i'm thinking about doing debian/* from start
[04:02] <ivoks> http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5/release/platforms5.html
[04:02] <ivoks> hm...
[04:02] <ivoks> !!! :))) !!!!
[04:02] <ivoks> gcc 3.2.3, 3.3.6, 3.4.4, 4.0.0
[04:03] <\sh> ivoks: sync it from debian
[04:03] <ivoks> \sh: we have latest debian in
[04:03] <ivoks> but upstream has new one
[04:03] <ivoks> wich compiles with 4.0
[04:04] <ivoks> at least, they say it does
[04:04] <\sh> ivoks: uupdate is your friend :)
[04:04] <ivoks> uupdate?
[04:04] <\sh> man uupdate :) comes together with uscan
[04:04] <ivoks> doing that allready :)
[04:06] <ivoks> i should do uupdate on allready debianized source?
[04:07] <\sh> ivoks: the upstream has debian/ ?
[04:08] <ivoks> no
[04:08] <\sh> so
[04:08] <\sh> u do this
[04:08] <\sh> download upstream package
[04:08] <\sh> (put it where your .dsc files are)
[04:09] <\sh> then enter debianized old sourcetree
[04:09] <ivoks> and uupdate
[04:09] <ivoks> too many rejects :(
[04:09] <\sh> uupdate -v <new upstream ver> ../<upstream tar.gz>
[04:09] <\sh> ivoks: resolv them
[04:09] <ivoks> when i say many, i don't think 10 or 20 :)
[04:09] <\sh> if u do, u don't have to make a source upload
[04:12] <herve> ivoks, you may contact the maintainer for common work
[04:12] <herve> he's a nice french guy ;-)
[04:13] <ivoks> :)
[04:15] <ivoks>  # Be optimistic about future versions of gcc.. :-) - QAK - 2003/10/20
[04:15] <ivoks> nice :)
[04:18] <herve> ivoks, "#301418: hdf5: Please update to version 1.6.4"
[04:18] <herve> :-)
[04:18] <ivoks> :)
[04:19] <DanielN> herve: you found some misstakes in when?
[04:19] <ivoks> then we will wait :)
[04:19] <herve> DanielN, ha yes, but nothing serious
[04:19] <herve> more like cleanups
[04:19] <DanielN> cool
[04:19] <herve> ivoks, I'm quite serious about contacting the DD
[04:20] <ivoks> herve: i know
[04:21] <ivoks> josselin? is he/she male of female? :)
[04:21] <herve> male
[04:21] <\sh> does it matter?
[04:21] <herve> quite rare name, yes
[04:21] <herve> \sh, for ivoks, probably :-)
[04:22] <ivoks> :)
[04:22] <\sh> i had this yesterday on #ubuntu-de
[04:23] <\sh> there is a girl :) and the first person who didn't know it, tried to "flirt" with her *eg*
[04:23] <herve> ok, I made my duty, 3 new packages reviewed
[04:23] <ivoks> wow
[04:23] <ivoks> when? :)
[04:23] <\sh> which ones?
[04:24] <herve> \sh, by the way, remind me if "leiber" is male or female
[04:24] <herve> I quite never remember
[04:24] <herve> ivoks, when plus the two first in the list
[04:24] <\sh> leiber? die leiber? the bodies? ;)
[04:25] <DanielN> herve: what about the orig.tar.gz size? could i do anything here?
[04:25] <herve> Daniel, I'll inspect it
[04:25] <DanielN> ok
[04:26] <herve> \sh, ouch! liebe?
[04:26] <ivoks> hm..
[04:27] <ivoks> 1.6.4 goes really nice with gcc4
[04:28] <\sh> herve: love? die liebe :)
[04:28] <herve> dear, I meant
[04:28] <herve> and not deer, with your accent :-p
[04:29] <\sh> dear has no "male or female" it's an adjective
[04:29] <\sh> it's more "the" dear ;)
[04:29] <\sh> Dear Woman, Dear Man
[04:29] <herve> hmm...
[04:30] <\sh> dear == lieb, teuer
[04:30] <herve> I once was told to use "lieber" and not "liebe"
[04:30] <herve> because it was for men
[04:30] <\sh> thats different from dear :)
[04:30] <\sh> Lieber Herve
[04:30] <\sh> male
[04:30] <ivoks> ok, got to go..
[04:30] <ivoks> see you
[04:30] <\sh> Liebe Susu
[04:30] <\sh> female
[04:30] <ivoks> bye
[04:30] <\sh> cu ivoks
[04:30] <herve> ok, I'll try to remember
[04:30] <herve> bye ivoks
[04:31] <ivoks> herve: -r is for males, and -e is for females
[04:31] <ivoks> german is hard :-/
[04:31] <\sh> ivoks: well
[04:31] <\sh> ivoks: das liebe tier
[04:31] <\sh> tier is "it"
[04:31] <ivoks> that's middle
[04:32] <\sh> ivoks: right..:)
[04:32] <herve> ivoks
[04:32] <ivoks> das
[04:32] <\sh> and it's not "dear" ;)
[04:32] <herve> joss is online on freenode ;-)
[04:32] <ivoks> der das die
[04:32] <ivoks> herve: i've send email allready
[04:32] <\sh> Dear <bla> == as introduction in a letter is different
[04:33] <ivoks> Liebe Susu is start of a letter, right?
[04:33] <\sh> yeah
[04:33] <ivoks> das liebe tier is like... loving animal
[04:33] <ivoks> or dear animal
[04:33] <\sh> right
[04:33] <\sh> no
[04:33] <ivoks> dear like loving
[04:33] <ivoks> not like start of a letter
[04:34] <\sh> my beloved animal
[04:34] <ivoks> right
[04:34] <ivoks> it doesn't have to be my
[04:34] <ivoks> or?
[04:34] <\sh> my dear darling == mein teurer schatz :)
[04:34] <herve> DanielN, your orig.tar.gz is ok, I'd just say to "debuild -S" again
[04:34] <herve> \sh, I didn't want to be _that_ personal :-)
[04:35] <\sh> 7topic german lesson for free ;)
[04:35] <\sh> herve: hehehe
[04:35] <ivoks> \sh: ja, mein, aber in das liebe tier, er ist keine mine
[04:35] <\sh> herve: is it a friend, or just a formal letter?
[04:35] <ivoks> mein, not mine :)
[04:35] <herve> \sh, just to show off my german abilities
[04:35] <ivoks> es ist, nicht er ist
[04:35] <herve> (which turned out to be a failure, as you can guess)
[04:35] <ivoks> an, my deutch sucks... it's been a while :)
[04:36] <DanielN> herve: i've fixed your issues...
[04:36] <ivoks> "your"?
[04:36] <ivoks> DanielN: they were your issues :)
[04:37] <DanielN> ivoks: thanks ;)
[04:37] <DanielN> herve: without the error about the orig size
[04:37] <herve> hehe,
[04:37] <ivoks> bye for real now
[04:37] <herve> ivoks, you stole me the words :-)
[04:37] <herve> bye ivoks
[04:37] <herve> ++
[04:37] <tseng> hi (for real)
[04:37] <herve> DanielN, I'll approve it then
[04:38] <DanielN> herve: ok
[04:38] <DanielN> :)
[04:47] <siretart> Micksa: hi! why do you think you were not allowed here?
[04:47] <Micksa> well I sorta read "Masters of the Universe" as "elite"
[04:47] <\sh> damn
[04:47] <Micksa> then I realised which universe it's about :)
[04:48] <\sh> need to go to office..
[04:48] <\sh> some radio services are not working :(
[04:48] <Micksa> (which I'm sure haven't been done yet)
[04:49] <siretart> ;)
[04:50] <Micksa> I gotta get my GPG key signed
[04:50] <siretart> Micksa: great! :)
[04:50] <Micksa> lifeless would be a good start, we live in the same suburb and I've known him for, like, 2 years no
[04:50] <Micksa> now
[04:50] <Micksa> but you know he would probably ask to see my license anyway
[04:51] <\sh> fck...off i go
[04:51] <siretart> does anyone heard about pdumpfs-rsync?
[04:51] <siretart> it is not installable in hoary, and I'm trying to locate the debian package (from debian)
[04:55] <Micksa> dammit, that joke was wasted on this channel :)
[04:58] <Micksa> remind me, what's the difference between universe and the packages in debian?
[04:59] <Mithrandir> they're modified to work on Ubuntu in the cases where ubuntu has switched to newer versions and such.
[05:00] <Micksa> are there any packages in universe not in debian?
[05:00] <Mithrandir> yes
[05:02] <Micksa> is the modification generally automatic?
[05:04] <Mithrandir> no
[05:09] <siretart> Micksa: modification is handwork. http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ shows you the difference to the debian packages
[05:11] <Riddell> \sh: cool
[05:11] <siretart> Micksa: well, he has good scripts ;)
[05:12] <Micksa> who did/does the majority of this handwork?
[05:13] <siretart> well, the motus handle the universe packages, the packages in main is up to the ubuntu developers
[05:13] <siretart> interessted in helping? ;)
[05:14] <Micksa> sorta
[05:15] <siretart> great! then you are perfectly right in this channel :)
[05:15] <Micksa> not RIGHT now :)
[05:15] <Micksa> I have an assignment due, um
[05:15] <Micksa> 3 days ago
[05:15] <Micksa> and another one due in 2 days
[05:16] <Micksa> and a job
[05:16] <Micksa> :)
[05:16] <Micksa> I am rather behind at the moment
[05:16] <Micksa> blame a dead laptop
[05:48] <herve> yeah, a new "ubuntu forks" thread starting on debian-devel!
[05:48] <tseng> link please.
[05:50] <siretart> more spoons! :)
[05:50] <herve> lists.d.o doesn't list it yet
[05:52] <herve> tseng: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/06/msg00327.html
[05:52] <tseng> AFAIK we have a joint plan on that front already
[05:52] <siretart> hey, ubuntu is sooo evil!
[05:53] <tseng> people should google before they throw mud around
[05:53] <siretart> tseng ++
[05:53] <tseng> erm doko posted it right there
[05:54] <tseng> i dont understand why binary compatibility between ubuntu and debian has any relevance
[05:54] <tseng> we ship all their packages every 6 months
[05:55] <siretart> tseng: because that affects the traffic and rants on *-user mailing lists
[05:55] <herve> I don't imagine if we get a FUD everytime ubuntu does something before debian...
[05:56] <tseng> I don't have the patience for those folks.
[05:58] <Mithrandir> tseng: please, Joss is a moron and he's going to be shot down.
[05:58] <tseng> Mithrandir: rock on.
[05:58] <Mithrandir> tseng: that is, I just sent him a mail asking him to fuck off and check his facts before posting FUD.
[05:58] <tseng> :)
[05:59] <Mithrandir> (a bit more politely, but that was the essence of it)
[05:59] <tseng> ive just been sortof watching that spot in dismay since I started advocating that more MOTU work directly with Debian
[05:59] <Amaranth> malone is _still_ broken?
[05:59] <siretart> Mithrandir: thanks for your very appropriate answer
[05:59] <tseng> and I started seeing this silliness
[05:59] <tseng> Amaranth: eh, probably
[06:00] <Amaranth> it's been like that for about 3-4 days now :/
[06:00] <tseng> well, its only a few more weeks until we are supposed to be replacing bugzilla
[06:00] <Amaranth> ha!
[06:00] <tseng> so anything that doesnt work you should be pretty actively telling bradb
[06:00] <Amaranth> there is a reason everyone uses bugzilla :)
[06:00] <tseng> yep..
[06:01] <Amaranth> tseng: well, i'd file a bug but the bug reporter is down ;)
[06:01] <tseng> yeah he is in here sometimes
[06:01] <tseng> im sure he knows about major brokens, but in general.
[06:02] <Amaranth> well, the main bug page is down and when you file a bug you get an error, so i'd hope he knows
[06:02] <tseng> right
[06:03] <siretart> Joss is making it hard to follow the CoC...
[06:05] <tseng> siretart: heh, thats nothing.
[06:15] <herve> hard to follow the CoC, heh...
[06:22] <AnHu> hello, yesterday a new version of GRAMPS was released (2.0.3) GRAMPS 1.0.8 is in the reposity. Can someone update this? You can find the source code on http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps
[06:26] <herve> let me check
[06:27] <herve> hmm... 2.0.1 had a build failure
[06:27] <herve> AnHu, if I upgrade gramps further than debian does
[06:27] <herve> I will be accused of ruining Debian's business model :-p
[06:27] <herve> </private joke>
[06:28] <AnHu> OK ;-) But would make this job?
[06:28] <herve> I'm looking at it
[06:28] <herve> 1.0.8 you say?
[06:29] <herve> you're using hoary hedgehog?
[06:34] <AnHu> yes
[06:34] <herve> gramps won't receive any update unless there is a security alert
[06:34] <herve> or a very serious bug
[06:35] <herve> hoary has entered production stage now
[06:35] <Amaranth> it will be updated in breezy, when that releases
[06:35] <AnHu> ok, that means, there won't be many updates for hoary
[06:36] <AnHu> I had compiled it today, there aren't problems
[06:36] <zul> no there wont
[06:36] <herve> this is not the issue
[06:36] <AnHu> ok
[06:36] <herve> AnHu, if you already have it up for your system, that's the best I can do
[06:38] <AnHu> ok no problem.
[06:38] <herve> also, check with the backports team
[06:39] <herve> maybe they did it, or they will be interested by your work
[06:39] <AnHu> is there a project for actual hoary packages? Are this the backports?
[06:39] <herve> yes
[06:40] <herve> google will help you find them
[06:40] <herve> more than me, I mean :-)
[06:41] <AnHu> ok thanks
[06:44] <herve> why do I make the assumption that everyone is living dangerously using breezy...
[06:46] <herve> I even wonder if doko works for canonical...
[06:46] <doko> herve: I do
[06:47] <herve> hehe, you should be ashamed to work for a company working for debian ;-)
[06:53] <AnHu> Ubuntu packages and Debian Sid package together make problems? I heard something about instability
[06:53] <tseng> its not a great idea
[06:53] <tseng> more inconsistancy than instability
[06:59] <AnHu> can someone give me a good backport server address?
[06:59] <AnHu> Not too busy?
[06:59] <Amaranth> AnHu: the forums have a list of all of them
[07:00] <AnHu> ok I will see on it.
[07:07] <AnHu> thanks I find it. Have you the irc channel of the backports team?
[07:09] <ivoks> hm...
[07:09] <ivoks> herve: that french guy...
[07:09] <herve> hehe
[07:09] <herve> yes I know :-)
[07:09] <ivoks> did you saw his post on list?!
[07:09] <herve> he plays the moron
[07:09] <ivoks> he will hear me now...
[07:09] <ivoks> this is too much...
[07:10] <herve> easy
[07:10] <ivoks> it's time to start showing some names on that list..
[07:10] <herve> remember the CoC
[07:10] <ivoks> i know :)
[07:10] <ivoks> don't wory
[07:15] <ivoks> eh :)
[07:16] <DanielN> hi ivoks my little reviewer ;)
[07:18] <ivoks> so, debian is going for g++4 too?
[07:19] <ivoks> hi DanielN
[07:20] <herve> ivoks, obviously
[07:20] <herve> I'm sure doko planned it months ago
[07:22] <ivoks> yeah..
[07:22] <ivoks> that's not something you pop-up over night
[07:25] <ivoks> ok, replyed...
[07:25] <ivoks> this is going in wrong direction
[07:26] <ivoks> what to say...
[07:26] <ivoks> i asked him does he wants patches for 4.0
[07:26] <ivoks> and does he want me to help him with new package
[07:26] <ivoks> and now he talks that no one contacted DDs for cooperation
[07:26] <ivoks> hehe :)
[07:27] <ivoks> world is strange place :)
[07:27] <herve> yeah, like I never send patches to a DD and he never merged them
[07:28] <ivoks> the point is MOTU would be more efficient if we cooperate with debian
[07:28] <ivoks> cause our number is... SMALL :)
[07:29] <JDahl> will Debian start using gcc4.0? I thought Debian was too conservative for that
[07:30] <ivoks> JDahl: it will, but it will take some time...
[07:30] <ivoks> debian isn't conservative
[07:30] <ivoks> it's just too big :)
[07:32] <ivoks> what's vancouver project?
[07:36] <Amaranth> vancouver proposal
[07:37] <Amaranth> basically don't hold back etch for non-main archs
[07:38] <siretart> the proposal sets criteria for archs for beeing released by the debian release team. for all other archs the porter teams would have to do releases for themselves
[07:38] <ivoks> it was about time
[07:39] <siretart> the slapd upgrade in sarge didn't go well. it killed all data. had to restore backups..
[07:40] <ivoks> happend to me once
[07:40] <ivoks> lol, once :) couple of times
[07:40] <ivoks> but that wasn't sarge's problem
[07:43] <siretart> does anyone of you happen to have a breezy on amd64?
[07:43] <siretart> would please anyone of you try to build http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/mas/mas_0.6.2-2ubuntu1.dsc and tell me if it FTBFS?
[07:44] <ivoks> sec...
[07:45] <ivoks> do you have patch?
[07:45] <ivoks> i don't have debdiff on amd64
[07:45] <siretart> ivoks: I uploaded the debdiff
[07:46] <siretart> ivoks: and it is a native package :(
[07:47] <ivoks> ?
[07:47] <ivoks> mas_0.6.2-2.dsc
[07:47] <ivoks> i have only this
[07:47] <siretart> ah, the rest is in the same directory:
[07:47] <siretart> http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/mas/
[07:47] <siretart> is the source http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/mas/mas_0.6.2-2ubuntu1.tar.gz
[07:48] <ivoks> ahaaa
[07:50] <DanielN> ivoks
[07:50] <DanielN> you're the one from croatia, right?
[07:51] <ivoks> siretart: -p4 man :))
[07:51] <ivoks> DanielN: yes
[07:51] <DanielN> :)
[07:51] <DanielN> AnteKaramatic?
[07:51] <ivoks> yes
[07:51] <DanielN> ok, i'm learning the names and put it togheter with the suitable irc nick :)
[07:51] <ivoks> siretart: sorry, i don't have all build-deps
[07:53] <ivoks> Mithrandir: ping
[07:53] <siretart> in breezy?
[07:53] <ivoks> siretart: on this amd64
[07:53] <ivoks> it's not mine
[07:54] <siretart> ah, ok
[07:59] <Seveas> any #ubuntu ops here?
[07:59] <Seveas> we need one desperately
[08:00] <ivoks> guy is k-lined :)
[08:08] <schweeb> Seveas: look for an IRC op
[08:08] <schweeb> lilo or someone
[08:20] <ivoks> ah... time to go
[08:22] <ivoks> uhh.... nice post
[08:22] <ivoks> herve did you read it?
[08:22] <ivoks> from eduard bloch
[08:22] <\sh> jesus
[08:23] <\sh> why did i subscribe to debian-devel?
[08:23] <\sh> ah yes
[08:23] <\sh> IVOKS !
[08:23] <\sh> ;)
[08:23] <\sh> because of u i subscribed to it
[08:24] <ivoks> :)
[08:24] <\sh> ivoks: u read the thread about cxx transition for sarge+1?
[08:24] <ivoks> why? i didn't told you to do that
[08:24] <ivoks> \sh: yes
[08:26] <ivoks> why? :)
[08:26] <herve> ivoks, do I *really* need to follow the thread?
[08:26] <herve> I usually get bored after the second or third answer :-)
[08:27] <ivoks> :)
[08:27] <ivoks> herve: well, it's a debian guy attacking debian :)
[08:27] <\sh> ivoks: because it's boring ;)
[08:28] <\sh> and annoying
[08:28] <\sh> to grown up people
[08:28] <\sh> one of the statements it's really near to reality:
[08:28] <\sh> Eduard Bloch:
[08:28] <\sh> Really? IMO it is exactly the lack of authority and strong top
[08:28] <\sh> management that has lead us into the current situation.
[08:29] <\sh> Source: Message-ID: <20050605181335.GA22200@debian>
[08:29] <ivoks> yeah
[08:29] <ivoks> that's the one i'm talking about :)
[08:29] <herve> one of the reasons I don't want to be a DD anymore
[08:29] <herve> I don't have time to lose into this
[08:35] <\sh> hehe...
[08:42] <siretart> is there a g77-4.0?
[08:43] <\sh> no
[08:43] <\sh> what lib or app?
[08:44] <\sh> i have a problem with the new upstream package of gnuradio ;)
[08:44] <herve> how surprising :-)
[08:44] <\sh> g77-3.4 is the one in the repos
[08:44] <tseng> why would someone be writing a radio app in fortran
[08:44] <\sh> herve: but I red it's an upstream bug
[08:45] <\sh> tseng: it's one part of the package...for frequency stuff ;)
[08:45] <\sh> s/red/read/ (read in past tense)
[08:46] <siretart> ah
[09:11] <mgalvin> hi all
[09:12] <\sh> hi mgalvin
[09:15] <herve> hi
[09:43] <\sh> gaga...this is the second time i help one debian devel ;)
[09:44] <\sh> I'm good today
[09:47] <siretart> waah, the terror continues..
[09:48] <\sh> haaha
[09:54] <\sh> which terror?
[09:57] <[Chameleon] > anyone available to consult with me on an error I'm getting compiling Mono 1.1.7 on Ubuntu/AMD64?
[09:58] <tseng> [Chameleon] : ask me ->
[09:58] <siretart> \sh: these paranoid threads on debian-devel
[09:59] <\sh> siretart: yeah :)
[09:59] <[Chameleon] > tseng: make[4] : Entering directory `/home/paul/mono/mono-1.1.7/mono/mini'
[09:59] <[Chameleon] > ...
[09:59] <[Chameleon] > mini-amd64.c: In function `merge_argument_class_from_type':
[09:59] <[Chameleon] > mini-amd64.c:239: warning: `class2' might be used uninitialized in this function
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > mini-amd64.c: In function `mono_arch_output_basic_block':
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > mini-amd64.c:4915: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[10:00] <tseng> are you building from source?
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > tseng: yes.
[10:00] <tseng> why?
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > tseng: mono 1.1.7 is unavailable for AMD64
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > at least, I haven't found it
[10:00] <[Chameleon] > tseng: I believe we talked over email about this
[10:00] <tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mono/1.1.7-0ubuntu5/mono_1.1.7-0ubuntu5_20050528-2216-amd64-successful.gz
[10:01] <tseng> oh you are the backport guy.
[10:02] <tseng> so should at the ver least be building from the source packages
[10:02] <tseng> and not straight from the tarball
[10:02] <[Chameleon] > I am
[10:02] <[Chameleon] > hmm
[10:02] <[Chameleon] > ok
[10:03] <tseng> apt-get source mono from breezy deb-src
[10:03] <tseng> but i think i mentioned before I in no way support that
[10:04] <[Chameleon] > so the only way is to get the source from the breezy repo?
[10:04] <[Chameleon] > I mean, obviously not the only way, but the best way?
[10:04] <tseng> i have no idea if that works or not
[10:04] <[Chameleon] > :(
[10:04] <tseng> I have plenty of work to do getting things ready for the next release
[10:05] <tseng> w/o helping everyone who wants to build their own crack on the previous release
[10:05] <[Chameleon] > tseng: sorry to bother you
[10:05] <tseng> np, sorry to bear bad news.
[10:05] <tseng> we just cant work backwards.
[10:05] <[Chameleon] > yeah
[10:07] <[Chameleon] > tseng: so this log file you sent me showing success was under Breezy?
[10:07] <tseng> yes.
[10:07] <[Chameleon] > tseng: is Breezy still a mine field or is it mostly usable at this point?
[10:07] <tseng> its usuable this week
[10:07] <[Chameleon] > :>
[10:07] <tseng> I cant speak for next week :P
[10:07] <[Chameleon] > yeah
[10:08] <[Chameleon] > can you approximate when a beta might be available?
[10:08] <[Chameleon] > Oct is release, right?
[10:08] <tseng> yes
[10:08] <tseng> so 3 or 4 months for fairly solid test builds I guess
[10:08] <[Chameleon] > so, a beta might be available a month or two before?
[10:08] <[Chameleon] > yeah
[10:08] <[Chameleon] > hmm
[10:16] <\sh> ok...time to go to bed
[10:17] <herve> hehe \sh
[10:17] <herve> I wondered wether you ever sleep :-)
[10:18] <\sh> herve: did u know? I'm ogra's clone;)
[10:19] <\sh> *yawn* I'm off
[10:19] <siretart> gn8 \sh
[10:20] <herve> \sh, I'm more concerned about doko's sleep :-)
[10:21] <herve> night by the way
[10:23] <zyga> hello
[10:24] <zyga> could anyone point me to mplayer packager?
[10:24] <herve> package or maintaner?
[10:24] <zyga> packager
[10:25] <zyga> the person that actually makes the package we get
[10:25] <herve> er...
[10:25] <herve> I guess it's a debian folk
[10:25] <herve> s/it/he
[10:25] <zyga> I've tried to contact the maitainer but he does not package mplayer
[10:25] <herve> hrm... isn't mplayer a native package... folks?
[10:25] <zyga> (dpkg-deb -I ...)
[10:25] <zyga> anyway
[10:26] <zyga> I've got a patch for RTC support
[10:26] <zyga> and no idea who to send it to
[10:26] <herve> so you should contact mplayer authors
[10:26] <zyga> herve: they don't care about mplayer.deb for ubuntu
[10:27] <herve> hmm, you lost me
[10:27] <zyga> herve: I've created a trivial init.d script
[10:27] <herve> you have a patch for mplayer, right?
[10:27] <zyga> no
[10:27] <herve> mplayer needing init.d?
[10:27] <zyga> I've got a patch for the .deb
[10:27] <herve> ha ok
[10:27] <zyga> herve: yup - for RTC
[10:28] <herve> well, I can't really figure it out
[10:28] <herve> but see with marillat@debian.org
[10:28] <zyga> I did
[10:28] <zyga> he has nothing to do with it ;-)
[10:28] <herve> what did he say exactly?
[10:29] <zyga> > FYI You are listed in the package as a maintainer.
[10:29] <zyga> I know. Ubuntus are packaging my unofficial packages.
[10:29] <zyga> > is my message, rest is his reply
[10:30] <herve> maybe you asked the wrong question. :-)
[10:30] <zyga> I've sent him the patch and asked if he would include it
[10:30] <herve> we have made his packages entering Ubuntu
[10:30] <herve> it's not like we did his job
[10:30] <zyga> he said he is not debian/ubuntu maintainer
[10:30] <herve> erm... I'm puzzled
[10:31] <zyga> as am I ;] 
[10:31] <herve> let me inspect
[10:31] <zyga> (mplayer-custom is broken, mplayer-nogui is slow as hell (tm), so I build mplayer myself but the script could be included)
[10:32] <zyga> included with officially added unofficial debs
[10:32] <herve> mplayer runs fine at mine
[10:32] <mitsuhiko> same for me
[10:32] <herve> I wonder what happened in Christian's head
[10:32] <zyga> mplayer-custom dies on illegal instruction
[10:33] <herve> those french debian developers... :-)
[10:33] <herve> I don't use -custom but -586
[10:33] <zyga> other mplayers run fine but 50-80% slower than simple build of mplayerhq.he tarball
[10:33] <zyga> I've got k7
[10:33] <tseng> k7 is not 586?
[10:34] <zyga> tseng: vector ops are different - right?
[10:34] <tseng> dunno.
[10:34] <tseng> why i asked :P
[10:34] <mitsuhiko> think so
[10:34] <zyga> (and mplayer is the only app I could think of that really use them on desktop)
[10:35] <zyga> amd has 3dnow, indek has sse
[10:35] <zyga> intel :)
[10:35] <herve> zyga, send your patch at hcauwelier@oursours.net
[10:36] <herve> I'll talk with marillat
[10:36] <zyga> herve: it's online at http://www.suxx.pl/mplayer
[10:36] <zyga> herve: It still needs to fail gracefuly
[10:36] <herve> ok, noted
[10:36] <zyga> herve: now it works or keeps silent
[10:37] <herve> but is it needed?
[10:37] <zyga> herve: who's email is that, yours?
[10:37] <herve> yes, mine
[10:37] <zyga> herve: it makes syncing audio and video possible on my box (and all other boxes I use)
[10:38] <zyga> herve: otherwise audio slowly becomes out of sync
[10:38] <zyga> herve: mplayer barks about it
[10:38] <zyga> herve: just run from command line and see
[10:38] <zyga> herve: (set rtc to 64 for example)
[10:39] <herve> yes but I mean
[10:39] <herve> it affects the whole system
[10:39] <herve> it could be useful for other needs
[10:39] <herve> or gravely affects some applications
[10:39] <zyga> herve: I know none other but I welcome information
[10:39] <chris`> Sodele.. bin pennen n8 all :)
[10:39] <zyga> herve: this is maximum user settable frequency
[10:40] <zyga> I doubt that could break apps if it's higher
[10:41] <zyga> I trust mplayer devs
[10:41] <zyga> If they tell me to switch it to 1024 I do
[10:42] <zyga> I use it for a few years and had no problems but then again this is a desktop - not a server
[10:43] <herve> another clue
[10:43] <herve> so you asked them or read to set this setting to 1024?
[10:43] <zyga> herve: mplayer prints this message:
[10:43] <zyga> (wait)
[10:44] <mitsuhiko> zyga: Is this a custom patch or is it included in the new mplayer version?
[10:44] <zyga> Linux RTC init error in ioctl (rtc_irqp_set 1024): Permission denied
[10:44] <zyga> Try adding "echo 1024 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq" to your system startup scripts.
[10:44] <zyga> mitsuhiko: that message has been in mplayer source code for a long time
[10:45] <zyga> mitsuhiko: the patch I speak of does not alter mplayer - just the package
[10:45] <herve> zyga, I can't answer you know
[10:46] <zyga> mitsuhiko: it simply does that: adds echo 1024 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
[10:46] <herve> I'll ask Marillat why he pretends he's not the maintainer
[10:46] <mitsuhiko> zyga: I see. You want to include a init stract that does this line
[10:46] <zyga> herve: okay
[10:46] <zyga> mitsuhiko: exactly, It's online if anyone is interested
[10:46] <herve> and I'll ask #u-d folks about setting it by default in ubuntu
[10:47] <zyga> thanks
[10:48] <mitsuhiko> can there occour a problem on some boxes?
[10:48] <mitsuhiko> by setting this to 1024?
[10:48] <zyga> mitsuhiko: I have no ide  - it never happened to me
[10:49] <zyga> mitsuhiko: tested on amd64, i386 both intel and amd
[10:49] <mitsuhiko> i will try goole ;)
[10:49] <zyga> good idea
[10:49] <zyga> not tested on ppc due to ENOPPC
[10:50] <tseng> i bang my head on ENOPPC a bit
[10:50] <zyga> :-)
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> hey. I've found someting
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> mplayer can use 3 methods to sync video and audio
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> 1.) old internal usleep()
[10:51] <mitsuhiko> which is not the best one
[10:51] <mitsuhiko> 2.) RTC -> there you have to do echo 1024 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
[10:51] <tseng> so hang on
[10:51] <mitsuhiko> 3.) run mplayer with -softsleep
[10:51] <tseng> you kids all want to make an initscript to set a sysctl?
[10:52] <mitsuhiko> ok. i've found the problem of method 2
[10:52] <tseng> did you consider /etc/sysctl.conf?
[10:53] <zyga> tseng: :->
[10:53] <mitsuhiko> some notebooks with speedstep will get problems when /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq is greater than 64
[10:53] <tseng> i didnt say just throw it in there
[10:53] <zyga> tseng: as you might have noticed IANA debian/ubuntu developer
[10:53] <tseng> i mean document it so that users who want it can add the line
[10:54] <mitsuhiko> selflinux.org recommends method 3
[10:54] <tseng> having sysctl settings in an init script seems very odd
[10:54] <tseng> to me at least.
[10:54] <zyga> softsleep will eat cpu
[10:54] <zyga> I did not know about laptop problems
[10:55] <zyga> I dont have any centrino cpus :/
[10:55] <mitsuhiko> tseng, yes a init script for this small line is not the best idea
[10:55] <mitsuhiko> but me
[10:55] <zyga> I had no idea how to do that better ;-)
[10:55] <mitsuhiko> zyga: Yes softsleep eats cpu power but on centrino notebooks it should be the best way
[10:56] <tseng> so can you guys document this somewhere?
[10:56] <tseng> and decide on a sane default
[10:56] <zyga> mitsuhiko: did you learn what kind of problems exactly?
[10:57] <zyga> tseng: I'm happy either way - I dont have centrinos and this is a very usefull addition
[10:57] <zyga> (for me personally)
[10:57] <mitsuhiko> zyga: if you understand german, here is the list: http://www.selflinux.org/selflinux-devel/html/mplayer05.html
[10:57] <zyga> mitsuhiko: a bit - I'll try
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> ok. bed calls, i will go
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> wish you a good night
[10:59] <zyga> http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.selflinux.org%2Fselflinux-devel%2Fhtml%2Fmplayer05.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
[10:59] <zyga> what would I do without google? :P
[10:59] <mitsuhiko`sleep> you would try astalavista
[10:59] <zyga> ;-)
[10:59] <zyga> darn the relevant part is not translated
[11:00] <mitsuhiko`sleep> rofl
[11:00] <zyga> hey - it's beta ;-)
[11:00] <herve> zyga, I sent a mail to marillat explaining the situation
[11:00] <zyga> as everything these days ;] 
[11:00] <zyga> herve: great
[11:04] <lsuactiafner> zyga : while on the subject tell him to make a static 32bit binary compiled for athlon-4 so that ppl can play the wmv with the 32bit codec
[11:04] <lsuactiafner> on 64bit systems
[11:05] <zyga> lsuactiafner: I don't talk to him anymore - I'll wait for his reply to herve's mail
[11:05] <lsuactiafner> heh
[11:06] <lsuactiafner> he didnt respond to me so i just figured i was annoyhin him
[11:07] <zyga> lsuactiafner: build it yourself - it's not that difficult I guess
[11:07] <lsuactiafner> zyga : i did
[11:07] <lsuactiafner> problem is there are several thousand ppl out there unable to view wmv
[11:08] <tseng> im not sure that "problem" is relevant to ubuntu
[11:08] <tseng> we cant do much about proprietary codecs, much less on alternative architectures
[11:08] <zyga> I'd rather see that wmv is just a lucky trick
[11:08] <zyga> or wait untill someone cracks wmp for windows xp 64
[11:09] <tseng> if it werent for w32codecs crack, people would actually be petitioning sites to use theora
[11:10] <zyga> tseng: I doubt it
[11:10] <lsuactiafner> ummm
[11:10] <Amaranth> jlj has wmv3 working on vlc
[11:10] <zyga> tseng: I could count people that understand what a codec is on one hand
[11:10] <Amaranth> i need to kick him in the pants and make him commit it to cvs
[11:10] <lsuactiafner> tseng : it is revelant to ubuntu, mplayer for 32bit systems i suppose cna play wmv with the correct codecs
[11:11] <lsuactiafner> on 64bit systems mplayer-amd64 cant play wmv even witht he correct codecs.
[11:11] <zyga> lsuactiafner: win32 codecs are probably illegal
[11:11] <tseng> probably?
[11:11] <tseng> definately
[11:11] <tseng> there is 0 distributability
[11:11] <lsuactiafner> yeh but i dont care if its legal
[11:11] <zyga> tseng: depending on your location
[11:11] <zyga> tseng: ;-) think china
[11:11] <zyga> tseng: think kuba
[11:11] <zyga> :>
[11:12] <lsuactiafner> i live in south-africa and my vice-president steals millions, proven in court and nothing is done about it
[11:12] <lsuactiafner> he doesnt even have the decency to leave his office
[11:12] <Amaranth> lsuactiafner: I +q'ed you in #ubuntu for talking about this stuff, don't do it here too.
[11:12] <lsuactiafner> no way the authorities will care if i opened up @ winxp cd factory
[11:12] <zyga> ubuntu does not like to be like your vice president
[11:13] <lsuactiafner> oh yes
[11:13] <lsuactiafner> just saying a 32bit binary is needed for ppl who want to break the law and live on the edge
[11:13] <lsuactiafner> static binary tho
[11:14] <Amaranth> most of those people don't _want_ to, they don't know
[11:14] <Amaranth> 2 or 3 people flipped when i said w32codecs was illegal
[11:15] <zyga> Amaranth: it could probably be made tiny bit more legal if someone had a legal windows copy
[11:15] <zyga> Amaranth: and the law permits him to break certain eula parts
[11:15] <tseng> well then you can go and talk to marillat
[11:15] <lsuactiafner> is there a way to disable a certain package by default in apt-get
[11:16] <zyga> Amaranth: *and* mplayer would distribute a program that would simply hack those libs
[11:16] <zyga> Amaranth: then it could be said that the user dit this himself
[11:16] <lsuactiafner> mplayer32 would be like mplayer64 just with static -vo libs totally seperate from the codecs
[11:16] <zyga> Amaranth: no redistribution
[11:17] <lsuactiafner> under ftp://ftp.puk.ac.za/outgoing/ there is a copy of mplayer32 static that several ppl have benifited from
[11:20] <tseng> Amaranth++
[11:20] <herve> I don't have the courage to read what I missed
[11:21] <herve> but just one thing
[11:21] <tseng> herve: im gripping my chair.
[11:21] <herve> lsuactiafner, about 32-bit static on 64-bit architectures
[11:21] <herve> lsuactiafner, I believe those 64-bit compiles were added by ubuntu developers
[11:21] <herve> so you should ask on #u-d
[11:21] <lsuactiafner> Amaranth : i have both binaries installed so that i can play wmv also
[11:22] <herve> tseng, sometimes you answer so strange expressions :-)
[11:22] <herve> night all