[12:38] <Mithrandir> hm
[12:39] <tseng> hi tollef.
[12:39] <Mithrandir> we might want to upgrade emacs or backport something to it or something.
[12:39] <Mithrandir> pasting utf8 from the character selector is broken.
[12:39] <Mithrandir> hi tseng.
[12:40] <lsuactiafner> man pages in console display wrong also
[12:41] <Mithrandir> no, they don't
[12:41] <Mithrandir> not if your locale is set correctly
[12:41] <lsuactiafner>        be mounted, like /dev/cdrom or /dev/sdb7.  For NFS mounts one will  have  <host>:<dir>,  e.g.,  knuth.aeb.nl:/.
[12:41] <lsuactiafner>        For procfs, use proc.
[12:42] <lsuactiafner> might be that..
[12:42] <Mithrandir> your terminal is probably not in utf8 mode.
[12:42] <lsuactiafner> heh
[12:42] <Mithrandir>        <host>:<dir>, e.g., knuth.aeb.nl:/.  For procfs, use proc.
[12:42] <Mithrandir> lots of beautiful quotes there.
[12:42] <lsuactiafner> how do i set it in bash/console?
[12:44] <Mithrandir> in the console?  unicode_start should switch the console into utf8-mode
[12:44] <lsuactiafner> tan unicode looks better
[12:45] <lsuactiafner> i cant be bothered with moving my mouse, console is less effort
[12:48] <lsuactiafner> is the devel and motu only for applicable discussions or is it ok to ask if marvell wireless cards are any good?
[01:20] <trulux> tseng: good job made by those *hardened* guys ;)
[01:20] <tseng> trulux: which?
[01:20] <trulux> tseng: the bad, false and inaccurate marketing about myself ;)
[01:21] <tseng> are we going to fight about this again?
[01:21] <tseng> im sortof tired.
[01:22] <trulux> tseng: no need, but this won't take long to get hard for those who were involved ;)
[01:23] <tseng> im not sure what issue we are even on now
[01:23] <tseng> but if you want to fight more people, I dont want to be part of it.. the last one was tiresome
[01:25] <trulux> tseng: fight more people? No, I mean I don't like to see my conversation with a devrel guy being unresponsible published in public availability in a bugzilla bug full of false claims and other weird stuff that I might did when I was 11-12 and what I definitely didn't do
[01:25] <tseng> trulux: gentoo devrel?
[01:25] <trulux> tseng: yes
[01:26] <tseng> im not sure how that is relevant to #u-d
[01:26] <tseng> we dont have a devrel.
[01:26] <trulux> tseng: you're as cinic as the others, if we need to discuss anything someday, let's /query.
[01:27] <tseng> sure, but lets leave your problems with method, devrel or whatever else out of here please.
[01:29] <trulux> tseng: sure, I've found a way of making this stuff both reliable and fun, and it's going to rock in the next years ;)
[01:29] <tseng> -hardened?
[01:29] <tseng> rock on.
[01:31] <trulux> tseng: not that. reliable in economical terms ;)
[01:31] <trulux> tseng: though that would rock too
[01:31] <trulux> tseng: I just hope to keep the stuff strictly technical there and accurate
[01:32] <trulux> tseng: sad how SSP died :)
[01:32] <tseng> SSP upstream isnt as responsive as it could have been
[01:33] <trulux> tseng: I'm not talking on that, I was working with others on defeating it, and double injection came to mind. the code might get available during the LSM 2005
[01:34] <tseng> oh, you made a POC :(
[01:35] <trulux> tseng: *we*, I was with migraines and only gave random bits and theory
[01:35] <tseng> any fix?
[01:35] <tseng> or its too critical
[01:35] <trulux> tseng: can't be fixed
[01:35] <trulux> tseng: certain archs could be non expoitable due to the conditions
[01:36] <trulux> tseng: but those are not supported by SSP
[01:36] <trulux> *evil grin*
[01:36] <alexandros-se> Dear staff behind UBUNTU
[01:36] <alexandros-se> I would like to talk about a future project with someone in priv.
[01:37] <alexandros-se> Anyone?
[01:40] <Jormundgand> ide-cd is broken for CyberDrive devices. I know people were looking at it beforehand, but will Ubuntu look to do anything?
[01:41] <kent> alexandros-se, why in private?
[01:42] <Jormundgand> Additionally, bugs 263198 and 260621 apply to versions of Firefox up to and including 1.0.4 - could the relevant source from the relevant build be backported to Ubuntu's build as a bugfix?
[01:42] <alexandros-se> kent: we are starting a project and I would like to ask for permission of using ubuntu...
[01:44] <kent> alexandros-se, Im not a lawyer, but I dont think you need permission to do that.
[01:45] <alexandros-se> well it's under the project's name...
[01:45] <alexandros-se> and I would like to talk about making huger amount of "shiping-orders" of ubuntu...
[02:36] <Kathita> bvcbvcb
[02:37] <Kathita> holaaa
[03:18] <Keybuk> ...why, after my PC has been off for a few days, does it feel the need to spend ages running updatedb
[03:18] <Keybuk> it was OFF!  the chances of any files moving is pretty slim <g>
[03:34] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:48] <Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: hey dude
[03:50] <jgotangco> hey
[03:50] <jgotangco> hmm
[03:51] <Unfrgiven> hmmm?
[03:52] <jgotangco> my other instance still isnt disconnecting
[03:54] <Mez> hmm
[03:55] <Mez> there's only 9 ubuntu members?
[03:55] <bob2> mako has the official list
[03:55] <jgotangco> if you're talking about the wiki list, that's incredibly outdated
[03:57] <Mez> last edited 5 days ago :P
[03:57] <tsume_> eww
[03:57] <tsume_> cafuego is in #ubuntu, the #debian trolls are coming to #ubuntu
[03:58] <bob2> cafuego is certainly not a troll
[03:59] <wasabi> looks like they're coming to -devel.
[03:59] <jsgotangco> ahh the edit is a self-addition then
[03:59] <crimsun> tsume_: heh, cafuego has been a healthy member of the debian[-based]  distro community for ages
[04:03] <whiprush> bob2 is my favorite #debian person.
[04:03] <jsgotangco> whiprush, hey long time no see
[04:04] <whiprush> hey
[04:04] <whiprush> I've been idling
[04:04] <jsgotangco> theres no rush
[04:12] <mako> Mez: just because it was edited 5 days ago does mean it's not outdated
[04:12] <mako> Mez: it just means someone edited an outdated list 5 days :)
[04:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:13] <jsgotangco> ahh mako you're still awake at this time
[04:16] <bob2> mako is always awake
[04:16] <whiprush> man I just scanned the #ubuntu logs.
[04:17] <whiprush> that place is horrible.
[04:17] <jsgotangco> tell me about i
[04:17] <jsgotangco> t
[04:17] <bob2> all user support channels are
[04:20] <mako> jsgotangco: i spent all day in the park
[04:20] <mako> jsgotangco: just got back
[04:21] <jsgotangco> spending sunday at the park is one of my fave activities
[04:57] <lamont> malloc: ../bash/dispose_cmd.c:322: assertion botched
[04:57] <lamont> free: called with unallocated block argument
[04:57] <lamont> ew.  bad bash
[06:07] <fabbione> morning
[06:17] <tsume> crimsun: oh please, cafuego is a loose gun who loves banning people over stupid arguments
[06:18] <tsume> crimsun: banning over personal disagreements is not healthy for a channel
[06:18] <daniels> and stupid petty personal disagreements aren't healthy for a channel, either.  don't do it here.
[06:19] <fabbione> daniels: do you have any idea for #3015 ?
[06:19] <fabbione> daniels: if X is not using DRI because it's not supported on that card, i start to even doubt it's a kernel problem
[06:20] <daniels> fabbione: if X isn't using DRI because it's unsupported on that card, then it can hardly be a DRI problem ...
[06:20] <daniels> fabbione: getting them to try different kernels would be best, I suppose
[06:21] <daniels> fabbione: i know of a problem in radeon drm that could theoretically cause hardlocks on newer cards, but we're not using that on r400, IIRC
[06:21] <fabbione> daniels: DRI is the only X <-> kernel direct communication
[06:21] <daniels> fabbione: right
[06:21] <fabbione> daniels: at least that i know off
[06:21] <daniels> fabbione: which means if DRI's not in use, then X isn't at fault at all :P
[06:21] <daniels> but yeah, if we can narrow the problem down to 'this kernel works', 'this kernel's broken' and no X changes, then we've got something better to start from
[06:21] <fabbione> X is always at fault :)
[06:22] <daniels> haha
[06:22] <daniels> i thought there were no X bugs
[06:22] <daniels> (only GTK bugs)
[06:22] <tsume> daniels: heh. I just really don't like a abusive op to be in a friendly channel
[06:22] <Amaranth> tsume: I've never even seen him use his ops.
[06:23] <daniels> tsume: 'abusive' is subjective.  if you have complaints about his behaviour here, feel free to bring them up, but I'm sick of disagreements from channels being dragged in here for no other reason than people don't like other people.
[06:23] <Amaranth> tsume: me and bob2 ban more people than he does
[06:23] <tsume> Amaranth: I have, there was even a incident which crawled all the way to the mailing list
[06:23] <Amaranth> wait, he isn't even an op in #ubuntu
[06:23] <Amaranth> so what's the big deal?
[06:24] <tsume> Amaranth: because hes "there"
[06:24] <Amaranth> tsume: We are not banning someone for no reason.
[06:24] <bob2> cafeuego is an op?
[06:24] <tsume> Amaranth: I never said/wanted that
[06:24] <Amaranth> tsume: he provides the ubuto bot and it nothing but helpful
[06:24] <Amaranth> bob2: no
[06:24] <bob2> so what on earth is tsume whinging about?
[06:24] <Amaranth> err, ubotu
[06:25] <Amaranth> bob2: Appearently the fact that he is in the channel at all has him pissed.
[06:25] <tsume> Amaranth: big whoop. I could provide a dozen bots if asked
[06:25] <bob2> tsume: if you have a problem with anything in particular, tell me or Amaranth 
[06:25] <bob2> if you don't like him as a person, you're free to /ignore him
[06:25] <daniels> 'he is there' is not a valid reason for banning someone who hasn't done anything bad towards ubuntu in the past, and that's all there is to it.  if you have anything specific in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu to complain about, feel free to do it, but for the time being, this pointless discussion is clogging up #ubuntu-devel, and I consider it ended here.
[06:25] <Amaranth> What daniels said.
[06:26] <bob2> amen
[06:26] <bob2> daniels: ps tart o'clock
[06:26] <tsume> daniels: "Amaranth: I never said/wanted that"
[06:33] <Amaranth> xbase-clients isn't broken anymore, is it?
[06:33] <daniels> nope
[06:38] <tsume> what was the problem with it?
[07:00] <Keybuk> meh, I hate brown paper bags :(
[07:01] <fabbione> Keybuk: what did you do this time? :P
[07:01] <Keybuk> dh_install can't rename things, so something ended up in a directory with the filename I wanted it to have
[07:02] <fabbione> ah
[07:03] <Keybuk> of course, this is a fucking difficult problem to undo :p
[07:04] <Keybuk> so I'm going to hope very hard that this particular deb never sees the light of day
[07:06] <fabbione> Keybuk: how long ago did you upload it ? and where? :)
[07:07] <Keybuk> about 5 minutes, to Debian
[07:07] <fabbione> oh you have plenty of time to upload the old one :)
[07:07] <Keybuk> the fixed one :p
[07:07] <Keybuk> of course, this gives away which package just got fucked up
[07:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: if you uploaded only 5 minutes ago, there should be no packages built with it
[07:09] <Keybuk> I haven't maintained libtool in a while ... <g>
[07:09] <Keybuk> if that's what you thought I meant
[07:09] <Amaranth> should we be thankful? :)
[07:16] <pitti> Morning
[07:16] <bob2> hey pitti 
[07:29] <svenl> Kamion: you there ? 
[07:29] <svenl> or elmo ?
[07:30] <svenl> i wanted to investigate on the segfault issues you are seing on ppc buildds and which fabbione said you qualify as "normal" ?
[07:31] <fabbione> svenl: there is a bug in bugzilla for it
[07:31] <fabbione> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1596
[07:32] <svenl> oh, cool.
[07:38] <svenl> that bug report doesn't say much, and i suppose the comment from elmo means it also appears on debian's dual G4 buildds.
[07:39] <fabbione> i start to believe it's a gcc problem
[07:39] <fabbione> same kernel different gcc more segfaults
[07:41] <svenl> if you find out, please tell me per mail. I will be mostly offline until friday. Going to the IBM power.org event in barcelona.
[07:42] <svenl> not sure about connectivity.
[07:44] <fabbione> i doubt i am going to spend too much time on it
[07:56] <lifeless> anyone know if the 0000:02:01.2 0805: Ricoh Co Ltd: Unknown device 0822 (rev 17) has drivers under development ?
[07:56] <bob2> memory card reader?
[07:56] <lifeless> AFACT its the SD potion of the roch R5C552 which does have drivers
[07:57] <lifeless> *ricoh*
[07:57] <lifeless> bob2: yes, single chip firewire/SD 
[07:58] <lifeless> the CF works fine, except for pmount/hal/gnome-volume-manager hating it
[07:58] <pitti> lifeless: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[07:58] <lifeless> pitti: thanks
[07:59] <lifeless> pitti: so you would like me to run up those logs and file a bugzilla bug >
[07:59] <lifeless> ?
[08:00] <pitti> lifeless: yes, either that or just mail me
[08:07] <lifeless> ok
[08:07] <lifeless> will do 
[08:53] <fabbione> elmo: can you please upgrade breezy{,-i386} on concordia?
[08:53] <fabbione> (i need the new kernel-wedge)
[08:53] <fabbione> meh
[08:53] <fabbione> kernel-package
[10:01] <daniels> so, in summary, yeah, that's a gnome bug -- file it on libgtk2.0-0
[10:01] <daniels> preferably severity critical
[10:01] <seb128> hey daniels 
[10:02] <daniels> yo seb :)
[10:02] <seb128> what are you trying to do to gtk again? :)
[10:02] <daniels> nothing really, was just checking if you were watching IRC or whether it was too early
[10:02] <seb128> ah ah
[10:03] <Treenaks> daniels: RoboSeb128 vs RealSeb128 ?
[10:03] <daniels> roboseb128 might explain the days where he uploads 50 new upstream versions of packages
[10:04] <Treenaks> daniels: so would cloning
[10:04] <seb128> elmo: could you fix libecal1.2-3 beeing universe instead of main? :)
[10:06] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:06] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:07] <seb128> grumpf
[10:07] <seb128> lib/ephy-dbus.c:254: undefined reference to `dbus_connection_close'
[10:07] <daniels> pitti: yo
[10:07] <daniels> seb128: er?  that changed??
[10:07] <seb128> I guess that's dbus_connection_disconnect () now ?
[10:08] <daniels> god
[10:08] <seb128> daniels: apparently
[10:08] <seb128> /usr/include/dbus-1.0 has no mention to `dbus_connection_close'
[10:08] <daniels> 'spose, yeah
[10:09] <daniels> hold onhold on
[10:09] <daniels> are you updating to a new upstream version?
[10:09] <daniels> if so, iirc thom put in a patch to make ephy fine with the new dbus APIs into the last upstream version
[10:09] <daniels> so you probably want to grab that
[10:10] <seb128> hum
[10:11] <seb128> I'm updating to 1.7.1 yep 
[10:11] <seb128> and upstream code has stuff like
[10:11] <seb128> #ifdef HAVE_NEW_DBUS
[10:11] <seb128> 		dbus_connection_close (bus);
[10:11] <seb128> #else
[10:11] <seb128> 		dbus_connection_disconnect (bus);
[10:11] <seb128> #endif
[10:11] <seb128> 
[10:11] <seb128> the issue is just this one beeing reversed apparently
[10:11] <daniels> heh
[10:11] <daniels> whoohoo! :)
[10:12] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
[10:13] <seb128> daniels: the current package is using thom's patch
[10:15] <fabbione> YAY for yet another ppc segfaults
[10:18] <fabbione> infinity: can we add somekind of option to get ppc buildd's to build the kernel, but not to upload it?
[10:18] <fabbione> or put it in @no_auto_build and process it manually?
[10:18] <fabbione> i have to review the build logs before binaries upload
[10:26] <fabbione> Trying patch debian/patches/06_translations.patch at level 0...1...2...failure. <- gksu
[10:26] <fabbione> seb128: ^^
[10:26] <seb128_> k, thanks
[10:26] <seb128_> mvo: you broke gksu :)
[10:26] <seb128_> roh
[10:26] <seb128_> bad guy
[10:27] <seb128_> gtk did the sync for you? :)
[10:27] <fabbione> we need a better FTBFS notification
[10:27] <seb128_> right
[10:27] <pitti> debgtksync
[10:27] <fabbione> and people to pre-build prio upload
[10:27] <pitti> fabbione: elmo's testing environment should pick this up in the future
[10:27] <seb128_> we need a FTFBS notification rather
[10:27] <seb128_> there is no atm
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128_: well a local build is not that expensive
[10:28] <fabbione> at least one :)
[10:28] <seb128_> I do local builds, but not pbuilder builds
[10:28] <fabbione> seb128_: a local build would catch at least 90% of the problems like that one
[10:28] <fabbione> a patch that doesn't apply is not really pbuilder/sbuild related
[10:28] <seb128_> yeah, don't say that to me, I do local builds ... mvo did the sync :)
[10:28] <fabbione> eheh
[10:28] <mvo> I check it now
[10:29] <mvo> I'm puzzled because I always testbuild/run the stuff
[10:29] <infinity> Auto-FTBFS notification can be done, methinks.
[10:29] <fabbione> infinity: is it possible to do the above???
[10:29] <mvo> that would be cool!
[10:29] <seb128_> would be nice
[10:29] <fabbione> infinity: i mean the kernel stuff
[10:29] <infinity> fabbione : build the ppc kernels without uploading?
[10:29] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[10:30] <infinity> fabbione : Not the way things currently work (unless I take a buildd offline and build manually)
[10:30] <seb128_> sometime I notice 2 weeks after an upload when a guy say "how come than we don't have the new gnome-whatever"
[10:30] <fabbione> infinity: what about @no_auto_build and build it manually?
[10:30] <infinity> fabbione : The way things currently are, it would need to be uploaded to a seperate dist, so it didn't get autosigned and uploaded.
[10:31] <fabbione> infinity: if the buildd are similar to davis i must see the logs before upload
[10:31] <infinity> Log your own build output and grep for errors in debian/rules check :)
[10:31] <fabbione> infinity: i just got a segfault that was not detected as fatal while building vmlinuz
[10:31] <fabbione> infinity: the buildd would kill something like that
[10:31] <fabbione> infinity: > 150 minutes
[10:31] <infinity> Not if you tee it to the log and stdout.
[10:32] <fabbione> infinity: is buildd hw the same as davis?
[10:32] <infinity> I'm all for more autobuilding, not less.  Anything we need to by hand, we need to ask "why?"
[10:32] <fabbione> i am really not sure if it is hw or gcc related
[10:33] <infinity> The PPC buildds do segfault occasionally, yes.
[10:33] <fabbione> infinity: oh but i am not asking for a permanent solution
[10:33] <fabbione> infinity: i just want one or two checks
[10:33] <fabbione> then it can go by itself again
[10:33] <fabbione> (given that it works...)
[10:33] <fabbione> infinity: i know about the random segfaults
[10:33] <infinity> Not sure what kind of machine davis is, but the buildds are all G5 XServes.
[10:33] <fabbione> but here we are talking about an average of 8 to 10 on a single kernel build run
[10:34] <fabbione> infinity: they are the same :/
[10:35] <infinity> Looks like it, yes.
[10:36] <infinity> seb128, mvo : How would you guys like to see Auto-FTBFS stuff?... I can't very well aim at the Changed-By address, as it's not always correct, and for autosyncs it would break miserably.
[10:37] <infinity> I could have elmo set up a specific list you could track, or I could auto-file bugs.
[10:37] <infinity> I don't like autofiling bugs, though.
[10:38] <mvo> infinity: is there a way to detect autosyncs and not send a mail to the changed-by address in that case (and send one in all other cases)?
[10:42] <infinity> Well, in theory, unless elmo changes it, all autosyncs are Changed-By katie@jackass.
[10:42] <infinity> Relying on that feels fragile, though. :)
[10:42] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql-{7.4,8.0,common} from experimental and postgresql from Debian/incoming; this also needs some NEW love. TIA
[10:43] <pitti> phear your databases
[10:43] <infinity> mvo : I'll think of something.
[10:44] <mvo> infinity: cool, thanks!
[10:44] <infinity> mvo : I'll bounce them off a list to start with, just to make sure the output is sane, then we'll see if we can detect appropriate people (uploaders, or whatever) to CC.
[10:47] <fabbione> infinity: well i will upload and see...
[10:47] <fabbione> infinity: davis is segfaultorama
[10:48] <infinity> I blame the kernel team.
[10:48] <fabbione> i blame gcc
[10:48] <fabbione> it was not that bad with the old gcc
[10:48] <fabbione> i am dead serious
[10:48] <infinity> Have you tested identical builds with gcc-3.3, and with older glibc, and, and?
[10:48] <fabbione> infinity: yes. i always do a test build run before upload
[10:49] <fabbione> infinity: i was getting a random kill once very 10/12 builds?
[10:49] <fabbione> now we are at 10 kills per build
[10:49] <fabbione> almost 100 times more
[10:49] <infinity> Lovely. :/
[10:49] <koke> hi all!
[10:50] <pitti> Hi koke
[10:50] <infinity> fabbione : Want to toss the sources my way, and I'll spin them on some drastically different hardware?
[10:50] <infinity> fabbione : Different kernel too, but otherwise, it'd be current breezy.
[10:50] <fabbione> infinity: it's on the way to jackass now
[10:50] <koke> mvo: I'd like to work on FindingPackages :)
[10:50] <fabbione> infinity: so you can just grab it as soon as it's in the archive
[10:50] <koke> and let google to pay me...
[10:51] <infinity> fabbione : Alright, I'll spin them on my machine and give you the build log.
[10:51] <pitti> infinity: btw, can you do syncs?
[10:51] <infinity> fabbione : If it's userspace, it should break the same.  If it's hardware or kernel, my machine might be fine.
[10:51] <infinity> pitti : Nope.
[10:51] <fabbione> infinity: i hope you have an idea on how long it will take :)
[10:51] <infinity> fabbione : <shrug>... I can leave it overnight.  I don't much care. :)
[10:52] <mvo> koke: that sounds good 
[10:52] <fabbione> infinity: you will still need to try to build a few times
[10:52] <infinity> fabbione : No problem, I can loop it. :)
[10:52] <fabbione> infinity: it's not 100% predictable
[10:52] <fabbione> infinity: and if it builds.. the next step would be to install elmo's kernel on your box
[10:52] <fabbione> infinity: if it builds.. than it's the hardware :)
[10:52] <infinity> fabbione : Yup.
[10:52] <fabbione> infinity: also try the stock kernel would be useful
[10:52] <infinity> (My kernel is a pure upstram 2.6.11.11 with no patches and a very barebones .config)
[10:53] <infinity> Which is a luxury I have due to havient seriously ancient hardware.
[10:53] <fabbione> infinity: elmo does build his own
[10:53] <infinity> s/havient/having/  <stares at his fingers>
[10:53] <fabbione> ok
[10:53] <elmo> fabbione: it's your source, just a custom config, FWIW
[10:54] <fabbione> elmo: i know.. but a change in the config can make a big difference :)
[10:55] <fabbione> elmo: i am not blaming it on you.. i am just analysing all the options given that davis has been segfaultorama since yesterday and it's having some I/O problems
[10:56] <infinity> Oh, hey.  Look at the time.  I'm in volunteer mode now.
[10:56] <fabbione> infinity: ehhehe
[10:56] <infinity> fabbione : How many images does this current source build?
[10:56] <fabbione> infinity: 8
[10:56] <infinity> Joy.
[10:56] <fabbione> infinity: hell of a lot :)
[10:57] <fabbione> infinity: i just added ppc64 :)
[10:57] <infinity> Is all the biarch stuff in current breezy now?
[10:57] <fabbione> elmo: the new kernel will need some NEW love
[10:57] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[10:57] <infinity> I don't need any hand-built packages?
[10:57] <infinity> Oh, good.
[10:57] <fabbione> infinity: just satisfy the build-dep and you are done ;)
[10:57] <infinity> Huzzah.
[10:57] <fabbione>  linux-image-2.6.12-1-powerpc64-smp - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.12 on PowerPC 64 SMP.
[10:58] <fabbione>  linux-image-2.6.12-1-iseries-smp - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.12 on PowerPC iSeries SMP.
[10:58] <daniels> \o/
[10:58] <fabbione> but for now we have udebs only for ppc64
[10:58] <fabbione> not the iseries
[10:59] <elmo> why iseries and powerpc64?
[10:59] <fabbione> elmo: ppc64 will replace power3 and power4. iseries needs to be special cased
[10:59] <infinity> Because ppc64 is generic (Macintosh G5, pSeries), iSeries is specific to iSeries machines.
[11:00] <fabbione> elmo: but since i can't test anything of the above direclty.. i didn't want to kill power3 and power4 in the first run
[11:00] <infinity> svenl suggest pseries/iseries, but Kamion and I both asked "then what do I install on my Apple?"
[11:01] <elmo> never mind kernel image names, we need to fix that stuff in yaboot
[11:03] <fabbione> elmo: for curiosity, when an arch builds some new binaries and they need NEW love... is the entire set of binaries placed on hold or only the new ones?
[11:03] <fabbione> (like in the kernel case)
[11:03] <elmo> fabbione: the whole thing
[11:03] <infinity> The whole .changes.
[11:03] <elmo> katie deals in units of whole uploads
[11:03] <fabbione> elmo: great! please don't NEW ppc if it builds
[11:03] <fabbione> i will ping you back after checking the logs
[11:04] <fabbione> i386 can be newed
[11:04] <infinity> (You realise he probably already added the overrides while we were talking)
[11:04] <infinity> (Just to irritate you)
[11:04] <fabbione> (dude.... i know elmo is a machine.. but i still have hope he can temporary revert it ;))
[11:08] <elmo> I figure jackass could use some diskspace before I deal with NEW etc.
[11:09] <fabbione> elmo: ehhehe
[11:39] <koke> mvo: do you know how to fix https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=13306 ??
[11:39] <koke> I tried to run gnome-app-install as user and only synaptic as root
[11:40] <koke> but then I can't pass the selections to synaptic :(
[11:42] <mvo> koke: it's pretty hard to fix it in gksu, a better way is probalby to add ---set-selection-file in synaptic
[11:47] <seb128> elmo: around?
[11:48] <mvo> koke: it's pretty hard to fix it in gksu, a better way is probalby to add ---set-selection-file in synaptic
[11:49] <mjg59> Uh. Can anyone actually run gok in Hoary?
[11:49] <daniels> mjg59: gok works fine, gdk breaks
[11:49] <daniels> er, gdb
[11:50] <mjg59> I'm just typing "gok"
[11:51] <mjg59> Oh. Now I get "Could not locate registry, aborting"
[11:51] <mjg59> Which means at-spi isn't running
[11:55] <seb128> elmo: have you fixed libecal1.2-3 beeing universe? 
[12:04] <koke> mvo: yep, but gksu should pass the stdin to the child proccess, IMO
[12:06] <jordi> pitti: hello!
[12:06] <mvo> koke: yes. I talked to kov (upstream of gksu) about it and he told me that it's not easy to do (I haven't looked myself)
[12:06] <jordi> pitti: in case you haven't noticed yet, 1.0.9 incoming
[12:07] <pitti> yay
[12:07] <jordi> pitti: jdthood and I are looking at the set-default-card stuff
[12:07] <jordi> pitti: do you think that should go in Debian mroe or less as it is?
[12:08] <mjg59> 800MHz Celerons = teh suck
[12:08] <pitti> jordi: that probably depends on whether you want to depend on python 
[12:08] <pitti> jordi: we don't need in Ubuntu since we have python-minimal
[12:08] <pitti> jordi: I sent the stuff to gnome upstream, they are looking at it, too
[12:08] <pitti> jordi: maybe they reimplement it in C, or something
[12:09] <jordi> pitti: nod.
[12:09] <jordi> pitti: I dunno, I sense debian will get that python-minimal stuff too
[12:10] <pitti> jordi: that would really rock
[12:10] <koke> mvo: maybe patching sudo to have a --password-fd option...
[12:10] <jordi> doko: do you know if there has been talk of that for etch?
[12:11] <allee> mjg59: I looked at keycodes of external USB keyboard (Dell).  Nothing (kernlog, xev).  Any other tools to 'debug' this?
[12:12] <mjg59> allee: Oh. With USB, i'm not sure
[12:12] <mvo> ping doko 
[12:12] <doko> jordi: "that" is what?
[12:12] <doko> mvo: pong
[12:12] <mvo> koke: could be a option but it would be hard to get that into all distros that gksu supports
[12:13] <allee> mjg59: ah and evbug shows nothing too.  I'll try to borrow some Logitech keyb.  and see if it's a 'general' problem.
[12:13] <allee> mjg59: n.p.
[12:13] <jordi> doko: Debian having python-minimal in base
[12:14] <doko> I'll upload -minimal, but I don't know, if it will arrive in -base ...
[12:16] <jordi> how big is minimal?
[12:17] <jordi> doko: we're discussing adding the Ubuntu alsa python stuff in the Debian packages, but that makes us depend on python. If that's gong to hapen in a reasonable timeframe, we might want to wait for -minimal maybe
[12:19] <doko> jordi: 700k, 2MB installed
[12:19] <pitti> jordi: if not, rewriting it in perl is not a biggie
[12:19] <doko> pitti: you're nasty ...
[12:19] <jordi> i'd prefer not to do that :)
[12:20] <pitti> doko: no, I'm realistic
[12:20] <pitti> doko: I'm not going to write it in C, if you or jordi wants to, that's fine for me :-)
[12:20] <mdke> mjg59, would you give me some advice on laptop-related issues? Not to worry if you're busy atm
[12:20] <jordi> I think it's reasonable to think python will make it in base for etch
[12:20] <jordi> pi	that would make 
[12:21] <jordi> alsa-base arh any, I think that's not cool.
[12:21] <jordi> damn arch any
[12:22] <mjg59> mdke: Sure
[12:22] <mdke> mjg59, thanks, is /query ok?
[12:22] <mjg59> mdke: Yeah
[12:23] <bob2> mjg59: what data should someone send in with a "the wifi kill sswitch on my laptop doesn't work on linux" bug?
[12:24] <mjg59> bob2: What sort of laptop they have
[12:25] <bob2> mjg59: that's all? no dsdt/etc?
[12:25] <mjg59> bob2: For now, yeah
[12:25] <bob2> mjg59: 'k
[12:25] <bob2> mjg59: on "linux"?
[12:48] (Nafallo/#ubuntu-devel) zul: sync rt2500 cvs, kthanxbai :-)
[12:56] <Riddell> lamont: I've added hppa as an architecture to kubuntu-desktop (you might want to check it to ensure I did it properly)
[01:01] <Kamion> elmo: please sync perl and libgetargs-long-perl
[01:02] <Kamion> elmo: (perl from experimental)
[01:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: was to experimental anyway
[01:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: well, either
[01:38] <seb128> Keybuk: can I use hct to repackage gdm now? 
[01:38] <Keybuk> why, did you break something?
[01:38] <Keybuk> seb128: no, cause gdm won't import :(  haven't had time to work out why yet
[01:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's goodness, not breakage
[01:38] <seb128> no, but when I asked like 2-3 weeks ago you said gdm is no imported yet
[01:38] <fabbione> probably Keybuk means: "why.. do you need to break something?"
[01:39] <Keybuk> seb128: the first was to Kamion
[01:39] <seb128> oh, k :)
[01:39] <seb128> Keybuk: any idea if that's going to be fixed soon?
[01:39] <Keybuk> it's on my list of things to look at
[01:40] <seb128> in the bottom of 478 other items? :p
[01:40] <Keybuk> nah, import problems are near the top
[01:40] <seb128> k, thanks
[01:42] <jordi> seb128: you're going to use the cdbs packaging we have in ubuntu?
[01:42] <jordi> lucky
[01:44] <seb128> jordi: yep, that's the plan
[01:46] <doko> Kamion, elmo: please move lib32z1 and lib32z1-dev to main
[01:57] <ogra> mjg59, thom, ping
[02:02] <tseng> hi ogra!
[02:03] <ogra> hey tseng 
[02:03] <ogra> tseng, why isnt monodevelop available for me ? it builds fine in my pbuilder....and works great too
[02:04] <tseng> ogra: ill look for the log. maybe the arch isnt set right
[02:04] <tseng> yep
[02:04] <ogra> ah, ok
[02:04] <tseng> we need to add amd64 to it
[02:05] <tseng> i have stuff building up to do..
[02:06] <tseng> until my key is moved for main and i can fix mono on ppc
[02:06] <tseng> i dont want to upload a bunch of stuff that will just ftbfs on ppc
[02:06] <ogra> ah, ok
[02:07] <jane_> is the warthogs wiki down?
[02:08] <bob2> JaneW: wfm!
[02:09] <JaneW> bob2: sorry wrong # and huh?
[02:09] <tseng> "works for me"
[02:09] <bob2> JaneW: works for me.
[02:09] <JaneW> bob2: oic, ta...
[02:10] <JaneW> hmm I can send and receive mail and IRC, but not browse the web
[02:10] <bob2> it's a No-Work-Monday!
[02:10] <\sh> right
[02:10] <tseng> those are the best kind.
[02:10] <\sh> g'afternoon btw
[02:10] <ogra> bob2, where ? 
[02:11] <bob2> ogra: only in capetown, sadly
[02:11] <Simira> US and au, I think?
[02:11] <ogra> oh
[02:11] <bob2> ogra: unless your intarweb is broken, too
[02:11] <ogra> heh..
[02:11] <Nafallo> Sweden is no-work to :-)
[02:11] <ogra> or youre in .de
[02:12] <Nafallo> as in. everything is closed :-P.
[02:12] <bob2> next monday is an actual public holiday here
[02:14] <Simira> we have no public holidays until christmas or something now, I think
[02:14] <Simira> JaneW: troublesome connection today?
[02:14] <zul> we have like one everymonth
[02:15] <Nafallo> zul: you saw my message earlier? :-)
[02:16] <zul> Nafallo: yes i wont be able to do it today because ill be out most of the day
[02:16] <Nafallo> zul: they have fixed connection to aps without essid :-)
[02:16] <Nafallo> zul: ahh, oki. I should have pinged you yesterday I guess ;-)
[02:18] <mjg59> ogra: Hi
[02:19] <ogra> mjg59, the power manager is packaged so far here... i'm pondering to upload it, since it doesnt do anything useful yet
[02:20] <mjg59> ogra: Heh. Upload it to universe to make it easier to hack on?
[02:20] <ogra> it sends out dbus messages that nobody recieves yet... i guess we need a listener daemon or something similar
[02:20] <bob2> nifty
[02:21] <tseng> i think if we make every component of the desktop depend on d-bus for no reason
[02:21] <tseng> there will be no more hunger
[02:21] <tseng> and hunger is bad.
[02:21] <thom> tseng: that was a very rob love comment
[02:21] <lamont> Riddell: won't make much difference until arts stops ICEing, but thanks
[02:22] <`anthony> bob2: ah yes, the one day a year where all australians are happy to have the monarchy still...
[02:22] <bob2> `anthony: we'll totally replace it with Drink To The Republic Day when we kick her out
[02:22] <`anthony> sure, we have a foreign descendant of a family of inbreeds as our head of state, but! long weekend! long weekend!
[02:23] <thom> bob2: pfft, the country will fall apart before you get a chance to
[02:23] <`anthony> bob2: Viva La Revolution!
[02:23] <bob2> thom: hey, the Falklands did just fine without the queen.
[02:24] <`anthony> bob2: aside from that little invasion issue.
[02:24] <`anthony> fortunately, maggie's not in power any more, so Australia could probably become a republic without the threat of invasion now.
[02:24] <thom> bob2: better start brushing up on your spanish then
[02:25] <Riddell> lamont: what's the issue with arts and ICE?
[02:28] <lamont> Riddell: arts is ftbfs: gcc- internal compiler error (ICE)
[02:28] <lamont> ICE!=ice :)
[02:28] <lamont> I need to reduce that down to a test case, and then file a gcc-bug
[02:30] <`anthony> so gcc4 not quite ready for primetime then?
[02:30] <tseng> `anthony: seems to be something like 90%
[02:30] <ogra> `anthony, only for c++ ... but who uses c++ software anyway ;) 
[02:31] <`anthony> only stinky hippies.
[02:31] <Kamion> C++ seems more designed for suits than hippies :)
[02:31] <ogra> `anthony, nope, i'm using gnome here *g*
[02:31] <tseng> some kid in here the other day told me we'd better rewrite beagle in C++
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: with all that crack?
[02:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: good point
[02:32] <ogra> tseng, at least the dependencys would match then ;)
[02:32] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <tseng> stupid monodis
[02:32] <ogra> yep
[02:33] <tseng> upstream is working on a similar tool to dh_cli that they use for rpms
[02:33] <tseng> not sure if it will be better or worse
[02:34] <jbailey> Kamion: I would *not* trust a suit with the type of machinery that is c++. =)
[02:37] <ogra> jbailey, come on, as long as he carrys his clipboard and stopwatch with him ....
[02:49] <winkle> hm, 404 on libxml-libxml-common-perl_0.13-5_i386.deb and libxml-libxml-perl_1.58-0.3_i386.deb on hoary
[02:49] <winkle> xmltv uninstallable
[02:50] <tseng> 404?
[02:50] <tseng> hm.
[02:50] <winkle> not found in archive
[02:51] <tseng> is that from security?
[02:51] <tseng> the archive has 1.56
[02:52] <trulux> lalala
[02:52] <winkle> hm and 0.13-4
[02:52] <trulux> pitti: ping
[02:52] <pitti> trulux: pong
[02:52] <trulux> pitti: I will receive the patch for the fs capabilities stuff from a fellow hopefully today
[02:53] <pitti> nice
[02:53] <trulux> pitti: for the pid randomization stuff I'll need to know if it should be enabled by default
[02:54] <pitti> trulux: yes, why not
[02:54] <trulux> pitti: OK, will do right now
[02:54] <pitti> trulux: since the modules will not be loaded by default for now, the good stuff should be on if they are loaded
[02:54] <pitti> trulux: if everything works, we could make them loaded by default, but we have to test it thoroughly first
[02:54] <trulux> pitti: PIDs randomization can't be implemented as module
[02:55] <pitti> trulux: I thought you can use LSM for everything?
[02:55] <pitti> trulux: btw, that's #u-h stuff :-)
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: OK, let's get it there :)
[02:55] <trulux> pitti: PIDs are managed by the kenrel task scheduler, etc
[02:56] <trulux> pitti: LSM has no access to the point where the pid gets initialized
[02:56] <trulux> pitti: that's init stuff (check child_reaper)
[03:17] <fabbione> elmo, lamont, infinity: what's the status with the last kernel upload for i386/ppc build? 
[03:17] <doko> elmo: please could you update the breezy chroot on concordia (just apt-get update)?
[03:18] <elmo> doko: already done
[03:19] <elmo> Kamion/pitti/seb128: done
[03:19] <doko> elmo: thanks
[03:19] <pitti> elmo: thanks; I'll upload a new psql 8.0 shortly, had to fix some things
[03:19] <elmo> fabbione: i386's still building, which means ppc probably is too
[03:19] <fabbione> elmo: ok thanks
[03:20] <fabbione> elmo: we have a working ppc64 kernel now.. (not the one in the archive)
[03:20] <fabbione> elmo: should we give it a spin on davis?
[03:21] <elmo> fabbione: will it "just build" with an-up-todate breezy chroot, if I want to build my own?
[03:21] <pitti> elmo: will new versions uploaded to experimental be automatically synced?
[03:21] <elmo> pitti: no, sorry
[03:21] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[03:21] <elmo> pitti: syncing from experimental's easy tho, just ping me
[03:21] <fabbione> elmo: yes. the sources are in my home on davis, but i would love if you can also test the stock kernel
[03:22] <pitti> elmo: alright, thanks
[03:22] <elmo> fabbione: hmm, ok.  can't right now (there's an IBM engineer in the way), but will do while I'm down here
[03:22] <fabbione> elmo: specially because the config is tweaked to actually work :)
[03:22] <pitti> yay, new PostgreSQL in Breezy
[03:22] <fabbione> elmo: sure.. no problem. i have no rush
[03:22] <Treenaks> pitti: \o/
[03:23] <Treenaks> pitti: could you send me the list of affected universe packages again, so I can test-build/upload them this week?
[03:23] <pitti> Treenaks: sure, I'll followup to -devel shortly with some instructions and patch pointers
[03:24] <pitti> Treenaks: I prepared most of the main patches already
[03:24] <pitti> Hi stub 
[03:24] <stub> hi
[03:24] <Treenaks> pitti: cool
[03:24] <pitti> stub: psql 8 is in breezy :-)
[03:24] <stub> pitti: Cool. I'll tell elmo to upgrade emperor tomorrow.
[03:25] <pitti> erm...
[03:29] <pitti> stub: however, testing highly appreciated (on non-production machines *hehe*)
[03:34] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql-8.0 from debian/incoming
[03:51] <whiprush> mako: it ends up that JohnDong lives like 5 minutes from where I work, we'll sign his key and assimilate him into the LoCo.
[03:52] <ogra> whiprush, yeah
[03:53] <whiprush> heh, had I known this I could have worked on him for 2 release cycles to become an motu.
[03:53] <whiprush> perhaps I can find new ways to motivate him. :)
[03:53] <ogra> whiprush, go ahead, i'm also working on his MOTUness ;)
[03:55] <ogra> whiprush, he wants (and we too.... somehow) to have the backports in an official archive... so he wont get around becoming a MOTU for uploading ;)
[03:55] <ogra> seb128, ping
[03:55] <seb128> pong
[03:56] <ogra> seb128, seems we need to tighten the dependencys for serpentine a bit....
[03:56] <ogra> seb128, https://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=3939&group_id=3081
[03:56] <mako> whiprush: awesome :)
[03:56] <seb128> not a surprise
[03:56] <ogra> the older hal seems to miss a handful of settings...
[03:57] <ogra> seb128, and second ping.... do i find gnome-about-me in the cvs already ?
[03:57] <Clint> does it have freon?
[03:58] <mako> Clint: quite probably
[03:58] <Clint> good deal
[03:58] <whiprush> ogra: I read the meeting log. I'll work on him seeing the light. He's just young.
[03:58] <mako> Clint: once i helped a friend install a freon-powered boat-horn into his honda prelude
[03:59] <mako> it sounded like a barge
[03:59] <mako> didn't want to cut him off in a tunnel
[03:59] <dilinger> mako: heh, had you asked a year ago, i could've given you 3 free a/cs
[03:59] <ogra> whiprush, great, all Uvelopers will owe you something for that :)
[04:00] <mako> dilinger: last night i had trouble sleeping.. craigslist had one for $10 :) the cab to get it home will cost twice than i think
[04:00] <dilinger> mako: my roommate and i ended up w/ 5 a/cs somehow; we lived on the 3rd floor, so we ended up leaving 3 when we moved.  damned things are so heavy :)
[04:00] <mako> yeah, getting this upstairs is gonna be fun
[04:00] <Clint> you could have just used gravity to get them down
[04:00] <mako> Clint: david nusinow?
[04:01] <mako> he's kinda shrimpy
[04:01] <seb128> ogra: serpentine use the n-c-b 2.10 or 2.11 API?
[04:01] <seb128> ogra: gnome-about-me is for like 6 months on the CVS
[04:01] <seb128> but I don't think it's usuable
[04:01] <ogra> seb128, good question, ill find it out
[04:02] <mako> the owners claim it can be good as new with a little bit of cardboard :)
[04:02] <mako> (it is $10 after all)
[04:02] <Clint> cardboard in place of what?
[04:02] <ogra> seb128, we need something to change the password and its required for http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient it seems....
[04:03] <mako> Clint: the little fit-it-to-the-window-wings
[04:03] <mako> or one of them
[04:03] <ogra> seb128, there is a bounty for it, do you know anyone we could push that to ?
[04:03] <mako> Clint: evidently, the frmae for the wing is there, but the flexible fabric stuff is gone
[04:04] <seb128> ogra: no
[04:04] <ogra> hmm, sad
[04:04] <Clint> ahh
[04:06] <pitti> Hi lamont__ 
[04:06] <lamont__> morning pitti
[04:24] <seb128> lamont_r: is evolution waiting for something?
[04:25] <lamont_r> was dep-wait-ish... checking
[04:25] <lamont_r>   evolution-data-server-dev: Depends: libedata-cal1.2-dev (= 1.3.2-0ubuntu1) but t is not going to be installed
[04:25] <lamont_r> *4
[04:26] <seb128> that should be fixed, no?
[04:26] <seb128> pool/main/e/evolution-data-server/libecal1.2-3_1.3.2-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[04:26] <seb128> elmo fixed that like 1 hour ago
[04:27] <seb128> it was universe due to soname change
[04:27] <lamont_r> ah, ok
[04:27] <seb128> the buildd doesn't detect such changes?
[04:27] <seb128> universe to main move I mean
[04:27] <lamont_r> the issue is more basic than that...
[04:28] <lamont_r> if the failure is that a build-dep can't be found, or a newer version is explicitly specified, then it catches it just fine (and the package being in universe causes it to retry every cron.daily run, which is yet a different bug)
[04:29] <lamont_r> if the failure is that foo Build-Depends bar, but bar is _uninistallable_, then I get a failure message, and manual intervention is required.
[04:29] <lamont_r> on good days, I can dep-wait it on something.  On bad days, I can't, or haven't.
[04:29] <seb128> I see
[04:29] <seb128> thanks
[04:30] <lamont_r> (basically, the auto-dep-waiter handles the first, but not the second case)
[04:30] <lamont_r> likewise, if the package Build-Depends on a virtual package, then I eventually have to clear the dep-wait manually, since w-b doesn't deal with virtual packages. :-(
[04:30] <lamont_r> I hate virtual package deps...
[04:30] <lamont_r> ] 
[04:31] <seb128> he he
[04:57] <mvo> ping mdz
[05:00] <Mithrandir> hmm, what's the tool used for building rsyncable CD images used on i386 called again?
[05:01] <Kamion> partimage
[05:01] <Mithrandir> ah, thanks.
[05:33] <{Seb}> hey all
[05:33] <{Seb}> is xorg fixed?
[05:33] <{Seb}> thing in topic has gone!
[05:34] <mdz> mvo: pong
[05:34] <dooglus> {Seb}: it's OK here
[05:35] <{Seb}> yey!
[05:35] <{Seb}> i can upgrade to breezy now and get inotify
[05:35] <dooglus> {Seb}: GNOME doesn't want to start for me unless I kill esd a few times, but other than that...
[05:36] <dooglus> {Seb}: apt-cache search inotify didn't give me any outp...  oh well.
[05:39] <doko> Kamion: is there a way to determine all binaries in an archive, which are not built by a source package anymore?
[05:40] <Kamion> doko: one of the tools in the katie suite does that, namely rene
[05:41] <Kamion> any particular thing you're interested in?
[05:42] <doko> yes, find out all source packages, which have binaries depending on libstdc++5, but don't consider binaries without recent sources
[05:43] <doko> Kamion, I assume rene runs on the archive machine only?
[05:43] <Kamion> yes
[05:43] <doko> :-(
[05:44] <Kamion> currently the list is hamlib3++, icomlib1, libinti-gl1, libinti-sourceview1, libinventor0c102, liblog4cpp1c102, libpgtcl, libpgtcl-dev, python2.3-kde3
[05:44] <doko> not more? that's not much
[05:45] <doko> anyway, thanks
[05:45] <Kamion> no, not more
[05:49] <SloMo_> Amaranth: any news with smeg?
[05:49] <Amaranth> SloMo_: sorry, no
[05:50] <Amaranth> SloMo_: it's on my todo list for today, if i wake up :)
[06:00] <Kamion> doko: lib32z1, lib32z1-dev moved to main
[06:00] <fabbione> elmo: can you please NEW the ppc kernel?
[06:01] <fabbione> elmo: i am happy with the build. davis needs love. kthxbye
[06:01] <fabbione> ;)
[06:03] <elmo> done
[06:03] <mako> mdz: hey dude.. 
[06:03] <fabbione> elmo: thanks :)
[06:03] <{Seb}> hi all
[06:04] <{Seb}> which kernel in breezy has inotify
[06:04] <{Seb}> 2.6.11 or 2.6.12?
[06:04] <mako> mdz: verdict on the ul packages? we should move quick
[06:04] <fabbione> 2.6.12
[06:04] <{Seb}> as x is no longer broekn
[06:04] <{Seb}> i'm upgrading
[06:04] <{Seb}> so i can do beagle testing
[06:05] <mdz> mako: dude, I only heard about this on Saturday
[06:06] <herzi> doko: gdb?
[06:06] <herzi> *blinzel*
[06:08] <{Seb}> is there any change i could make a custom hoary kernel with inotify?
[06:10] <jdthood> I have a question about the Ubuntu alsa-driver package.
[06:10] <pitti> jdthood: just ask it :-)
[06:11] <jdthood> I understand a lot of ubuntu's patch.  However, I wonder about:
[06:11] <jdthood> -	unmute_and_set_level "PCM,1" "90%"
[06:11] <jdthood> +	unmute_and_set_level "PCM,1" "70%"
[06:11] <mako> mdz: alright.. i'll let you breath :)
[06:11] <mako> mdz: FOR NOW
[06:12] <jdthood> and similar changes.  Are there reasons for these changes?
[06:12] <mako> mdz: you knew i'd been making the packages, right? there have been a few threadson -devel
[06:12] <ogra> mako, where is the prob ? cant you upload ?
[06:12] <jdthood> I mean, did Ubuntu scientists in white coats determine that 70% was a better default value than 90% for the majority of users, or what?
[06:12] <pitti> jdthood: probably, otherwise it wouldn't have been made :-) is there any changelog entry related to this?
[06:12] <mako> ogra: um.. i think i did upload
[06:12] <pitti> jdthood: it indeed might be
[06:13] <mako> ogra: mark wants the in hoary-updates
[06:13] <pitti> jdthood: at least for me (however, I didn't do the change, mdz maybe)
[06:13] <ogra> mako, OH !
[06:13] <Kamion> we had some incredibly long conversation about the default volume settings
[06:13] <jdthood> pitti: In 1.0.5a-1ubuntu3: * Unmute Master, PCM, Synth controls at boot and set them to 70% volume
[06:13] <jdthood> -- Matt Zimmerman
[06:14] <mako> ogra: i uploaded them on friday or saturday i think but they need to approved
[06:14] <Kamion> I remember either bugs or mailing list posts of the form "warty sounds nearly blew my eardrums"
[06:14] <Kamion> (after doing auto-unmute-at-boot)
[06:14] <ogra> mako, yep
[06:14] <pitti> in addition, 90% often causes clipping effects
[06:15] <mako> ogra: i think my ubuntu.com address is not whitelisted.. or wasn't at the time
[06:15] <mako> so i'm not entirely clear what's going on :)
[06:15] <jdthood> Hrm, OK I guess I'll adopt the ubuntu values upstream then.
[06:17] <pitti> jdthood: you don't experience clipping with 90%? I do on both of my machines
[06:17] <mdz> mako: oh, yes, I knew you were working on them, but the "we're ready to put them into hoary-updates" is new to me
[06:18] <mdz> jdthood: yes, it was made in response to user feedback and some simplistic tests
[06:19] <mako> mdz: mark suggested it like, no joke, 2 hours after hoary was released
[06:19] <mdz> jdthood: our goal was to have a volume where _something_ could be heard by default on as many systems as possible, and in consideration of the fact that it was better for the user to be able to hear a quiet sound (and know to turn the volume up) than to have a sound play too loud
[06:19] <mdz> mako: yes, I remember
[06:19] <mdz> mako: but you didn't even have packages yet at that point, did you?
[06:19] <mdz> (ones that you were satisfied with)
[06:20] <mako> well, i didn't have pacakges that the userlinux guys were satisfied with
[06:20] <mako> and i think not me either
[06:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: apparently, the ooo changes I did for amd64 so printing works with the gtk frontend is ok (or at least I haven't gotten any reports about it being broken) so we might want to consider it for hoary-updates.
[06:20] <mako> i can't remember.. they weren't upload able then
[06:21] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, mail me the proposed debdiff?
[06:21] <jdthood> mdz: How about we compromise on the binary-friendly figure of 75%?
[06:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok
[06:22] <wasabi_> mdz, i know you wanted to get the java stuff done, but I'm hung up on xerces. It's probably going to be awhile.
[06:22] <wasabi_> I can give you an overview of the problem as I see it though.
[06:23] <mdz> wasabi_: I saw you mention that it failed to build; is it a xerces problem or a compiler problem?
[06:24] <wasabi_> Sorta both.
[06:25] <wasabi_> The Debian maintainer is doing something a litlte bit hacky in it. He's including in debian/dom2-sources source copies of another package (a DOM2 implementation) to compile xerces against.
[06:25] <wasabi_> And he's using a compiler trick to compile against it without compiling it.
[06:25] <wasabi_> Which seems to work with jikes but not with ecj.
[06:25] <wasabi_> And that's where I left off.
[06:28] <mako> this makoto guy on #ubuntu is rendering my nick highlying completely useless there
[06:28] <maswan> mako: the trick is to teach your irc client not to highlight on it as a part of a longer word.
[06:29] <Mithrandir> mako: add an ignore makoto?
[06:30] <Lathiat> or chose a more uniue nickname :)
[06:30] <Lathiat> *unique
[06:31] <toresbe> mako: you can ignore it
[06:32] <toresbe> mako:  ...somehow :P
[06:32] <jdthood> mdz, pitti: With playback levels at 75% my PCM output is faint in comparison with my system bell.  However, you are right that too faint is better than too loud.
[06:32] <toresbe> mako: just curious, did you choose your nick based on the Final Fantasy game series?
[06:32] <pitti> lamont_r: here?
[06:32] <toresbe> particularily, FF VII?
[06:33] <mako> maswan: i like it when it's people talking about, say, URLS from my website or something
[06:33] <mako> toresbe: i chose my nick based on my name :)
[06:33] <mako> toresbe: which was not based on the final fantasty website
[06:33] <toresbe> mako: that would explain it ;)
[06:34] <maswan> mako: so, trickier, but /~. etc should not be counted as within a word. :)
[06:34] <mako> maswan: or mako.cc or mako.yukidoke.org or something.. yeah
[06:34] <lamont_r> pitti: yes
[06:34] <Mithrandir> mako: you're cc licensed? ;)
[06:34] <mdz> jdthood: I don't know how 75 compares to 70, but we've been using 70 for some time now and have ceased to receive negative feedback
[06:36] <jdub> mdz: hrm, has the repository of debuginfo packages discussion come up again? i don't remember a spec about it at UDU
[06:36] <\sh> hmmm....if I would be a doctor, then I would say: "My dear \sh, you're not living healthy and what you're eating is rubbish"
[06:36] <mdz> jdub: there was a spec and a discussion at UDU
[06:36] <jdub> ah, good
[06:37] <mdz> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
[06:37] <jdub> oh, that was the one we discussed instrumented builds and stuff, too?
[06:37] <jdub> oh
[06:38] <jdub> mdz: ah, so they won't be packaged
[06:38] <mdz> yeah, it doesn't really make sense to have them all indexed and installable as .debs in my opinion
[06:39] <jdub> kinda handy when tracking software, and getting upgraded debug stuff at the same time
[06:40] <pitti> mdz: are you fine with changing the seeds for the new postgresql architecture?
[06:40] <pitti> mdz: (i. e. I'll do it, just asking for your ack)
[06:40] <mdz> jdub: kinda insane from an archive management perspective
[06:40] <mdz> pitti: yes
[06:41] <jdub> mdz: just looking for my pouch of magic launchpad pixie dust, one second.
[06:41] <pitti> mdz: i. e.  I seed the server (which pulls in the client), and the -dev stuff is pulled in via build-deps
[06:41] <mdz> pitti: yes, fine
[06:42] <mako> Mithrandir: i've written an article about CC which might make a splash :)
[06:42] <mako> Mithrandir: not so complimentary
[06:42] <mako> Mithrandir: rms somehow got a copy and is urging me to release it
[06:42] <Mithrandir> mako: sounds fun.
[06:43] <mako> rms tells me he agrees with me and i start doubting myself :)
[06:43] <Lathiat> heh
[06:44] <Mithrandir> mako: ;)
[06:44] <elmo> is there a way to get a wireless card to prefer an AP if it's available but not use it exclusively?
[06:44] <Simira> mako: got my stuff on thursday. Yay! :D
[06:44] <mako> Simira: great :)
[06:45] <jdub> elmo: strongly worded admonitions
[06:46] <Mithrandir> elmo: while true; iwlist scan | grep $AP && iwconfig eth1 ap $AP || iwconfig eth1 ap any ; sleep 1 ; done ?
[06:47] <elmo> eww
[06:47] <Mithrandir> elmo: it's probably more or less what such a tool would do anyhow. :P
[06:48] <Lathiat> gtk-wifi does that
[06:48] <Lathiat> .. im a little conerned about its setid python script tho, its uh, not looking so security conscious
[06:48] <Lathiat> the gui is nice and it works well tho... :)
[06:48] <Mithrandir> setuid python doesn't work anyhow, though.
[06:48] <Mithrandir> AIUI
[06:49] <Lathiat> its sudod
[06:49] <Lathiat> wrong term
[06:49] <Mithrandir> sudone?
[06:49] <Lathiat> either way a a quick glance it looked like i could execute arbitrary commands :)
[06:49] <Lathiat> (sudo /usr/bin/gtkwifi....)
[06:49] <Lathiat> with a NOPASSWD: allow
[06:51] <mdz> mako: which CC?
[06:52] <mako> mdz: creative commons
[06:53] <mdz> mako: I was afraid you meant Community Council
[06:53] <mako> mdz: i like that CC
[06:53] <mdz> I was like, man, mako isn't happy about the council?
[06:53] <mako> mdz: thanks for reminding me, i need to write up that summary today
[06:59] <elmo> Mithrandir: the "in an office, but next door has a stronger AP than us" can't be an uncommon use case/scenario tho, I'm surprised there isn't something in iwconfig for it
[06:59] <elmo> well I suppoed it'd need to be more than just iwconfig
[07:00] <Mithrandir> elmo: with the same essid and wep key?
[07:01] <elmo> Mithrandir: no wep, essid set to any, on both routers, and I don't want to change that, because then the user has to change that when she goes home
[07:01] <elmo> and AFAIK we don't have remotely useful/usable profile type support yet?
[07:02] <Mithrandir> elmo: waproamd might work, or possibly networkmanager from thom's repo.
[07:02] <siretart> elmo: I *think* that could be possible with wpasupplicant. there you can set priorities. this should be the effect you try to acheive
[07:03] <thom> leave the NM in my repo well alone, i'm just about to delete it
[07:04] <Mithrandir> thom: it's crack?
[07:04] <thom> out of date, old, broken
[07:05] <jdthood> thom: Is a less-broken NM package on its way?
[07:05] <thom> jdthood: yes
[07:06] <Burgundavia> mdz, do you bother updating the translation stuff during breezy release? (I have someone on the forums asking)
[07:07] <jdthood> thom: Let me know if there is some way of integrating with resolvconf.  I'll be happy to work on that.
[07:07] <thom> jdthood: or try http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager/ for hoary stuff; that's the 
[07:07] <siretart> elmo: I tried to do that with my hardware (madwifi). The problem is that there are issues with wpasupplicant and madwifi when using networks without encryption or plain wep. I already mailed madwifi user list. Greg did answer me privatly that the problem is known, but unclear how to solve it
[07:07] <thom> 0.3 branch
[07:08] <thom> jdthood: i need to look at that; i'll let you know
[07:09] <thom> jdthood: also, j@bootlab.org is interested in ifupdown integration with NM
[07:09] <jdthood> thom: I can work with people on that too.
[07:12] <jdthood> thom: I recently rewrote ifupdown in Python with the plan of translating to C++ later.  That may be of use for someone wanting NM to emulate ifupdown.
[07:13] <mdz> Burgundavia: what translation stuff, specifically?
[07:14] <Burgundavia> mdz, updated translation packs
[07:16] <jdub> oh, doko's playing with perl again :)
[07:16] <Burgundavia> jdub, you seen this? http://www.spreadubuntu.org/
[07:17] <jdub> i knew it was purchased, hadn't seen anything done with it yet
[07:17] <jdub> ta
[07:18] <eruin> Burgundavia, work in progress?
[07:19] <Burgundavia> eruin, no idea, just saw it on the forums, figured I would tell those in power about it
[07:19] <eruin> should have some way to become a "registered ubuntu user" and a download counter too, eventually ;)
[07:22] <tseng>  thats a nice page
[07:41] <seb128> Amaranth: around?
[07:42] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah
[07:42] <seb128> Amaranth: do you know what other distros do about the .menu files conflict between desktops?
[07:42] <Amaranth> seb128: gentoo seems to ignore it, suse does .menu.gnome and etc, not sure about the rest
[07:43] <dooglus> I installed a new kernel earlier, rebooted, and when gnome came back up after the reboot there was a little 'something' on the top of the screen telling me to reboot as soon as possible because the kernel had been updated.  couldn't it tell that i had already rebooted?
[07:44] <seb128> Amaranth: we are probably going to change the namespace for GNOME as well, do you think that's a good idea?
[07:44] <seb128> ie: applications-gnome.menu or something like that
[07:44] <seb128> does it break anything, like menu editors, etc?
[07:44] <Amaranth> i think the way SuSE does it is better, actually
[07:44] <seb128> how do they do?
[07:45] <Amaranth> but yeah, it'll break anything that works with menu files
[07:45] <Amaranth> applications.menu.gnome, applications.menu.kde, applications.menu.xfce
[07:45] <Amaranth> at least, that's what i was told they do
[07:45] <fabbione> infinity, lamont_r: can you please kick linux-source-2.6.12 back on i386?
[07:45] <seb128> Amaranth: how is that better than applications-<desktop>.menu ?
[07:46] <Amaranth> seb128: it looks nicer ;)
[07:46] <seb128> Amaranth: or <desktop>-applications.menu
[07:46] <Amaranth> seb128: and someone else already does it, might as well be compatible with them
[07:46] <seb128> atm kdelibs does kde-....menu
[07:46] <Amaranth> since compatibility with the spec is shot
[07:46] <seb128> for ubuntu
[07:46] <Amaranth> yeah, kde-applications.menu in ubuntu and debian
[07:46] <seb128> I guess gnome-applications.menu makes sense so
[07:47] <Amaranth> yeah, but let me explain
[07:47] <seb128> sure
[07:47] <Amaranth> if we can't follow the actual standard, it would be better to try to make a de-facto standard
[07:47] <Lathiat> Amaranth: no it would be better to udpate the standard :)
[07:48] <Amaranth> if SuSE (and i assume NLD) are doing applications.menu.gnome and ubuntu does too, others could fall in to line and we still get something usable
[07:48] <Amaranth> although i don't know how they handle applications-merged/
[07:49] <Amaranth> apple stole the rosetta name :?
[07:49] <Amaranth> their PPC-x86 translation stuff is called rosetta
[07:49] <seb128> Amaranth: need to figure what redhat does
[07:49] <Kamion> it's not as if rosetta is a particularly non-obvious name for something that does translation
[07:50] <Amaranth> i know
[07:50] <Amaranth> it just sucks
[07:50] <Amaranth> when people think rosetta they'll think apple now
[07:50] <Kamion> most people will still think of the Rosetta Stone. :-)
[07:53] <seb128> Amaranth: the redhat way is:
[07:53] <seb128> * Tue Feb  1 2005 Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> - 2.9.90-2
[07:53] <seb128> - Don't include .directory and .menu files,
[07:53] <seb128>   we want those from redhat-menus
[07:53] <seb128> 
[07:54] <seb128> they have common menus for both desktop probably
[07:54] <Amaranth> yeah, bluecurve and all that
[07:54] <seb128> ?
[07:54] <seb128> is that a theme?
[07:55] <Amaranth> yeah, that's a theme
[07:55] <Amaranth> but i mean they try to make KDE and GNOME look the same
[07:55] <Amaranth> so having the same menus goes along with that
[07:56] <seb128> k
[07:56] <jdub> seb128: bluecurve was a brand, so covered more than just the theme
[07:56] <seb128> jdub: tell me again why we don't do a commun menu for both desktops?
[07:59] <jdub> seb128: i think that would mean we'll end up with a sucky lowest common denominator for both.
[08:00] <seb128> hum, k
[08:01] <robertj> btw, its getting mighty cold in here. Apparently news is in from the WWDC and Apple is switching to Intel
[08:01] <seb128> let's rename gnome menus too so
[08:01] <Kamion> debconf (developer): <-- METAGET kbd-chooser/no-keyboard Description-en_GB.UTF-8
[08:01] <Kamion> debconf (developer): --> 0
[08:01] <jdub> robertj: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html
[08:03] <robertj> It feels odd
[08:33] <doko> Kamion: could you provide breezy_probs for universe as well?
[08:34] <Kamion> doko: it's on my to-do list ...
[08:34] <Kamion> requires me to set up a separate britney run on rookery
[08:34] <doko> no haste ...
[08:38] <mjg59> So. How do we cope with keyboardless devices?
[08:38] <thom> run away screaming?
[08:38] <mjg59> I think that's about it at the moment
[08:38] <mdz> Burgundavia: once the infrastructure is in place, we'll be rolling new packs regularly during the development cycle
[08:38] <mdz> weekly perhaps
[08:43] <ogra> mjg59, not even a touchpad ? 
[08:45] <mjg59> ogra: Touchscreen
[08:46] <ogra> thats what i meant... sorry...familiar linux should have some drivers... 
[08:47] <ogra> dunno if they apply for all kinds of touchscreens....
[09:11] <Amaranth> so...
[09:12] <Amaranth> sarge like, just released?
[09:12] <thom> yep
[09:12] <Amaranth> isn't it a little early?
[09:12] <tseng> Amaranth: "early"?
[09:12] <tseng> this is sarge.
[09:12] <Amaranth> i heard 21:00 UTC, that's two hours from now
[09:12] <tseng> early passed years ago
[09:12] <thom> Amaranth: no, april 1 was some time ago
[09:12] <Amaranth> or is that when all the mirrors will have it?
[09:13] <Kamion> announcement won't be 'til 20:30 UTC
[09:14] <Kamion> (was previously quoted as 21:00 UTC)
[09:14] <Kamion> we're still letting mirrors catch up
[09:46] <Riddell> I'm getting complaints that the torrent doesn't work and http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ seems to be down
[09:55] <crevette> Riddell> it's known issue
[09:55] <crevette> see #ubuntu
[10:05] <tseng> um
[10:05] <tseng> "Evolution Desktop" on sounder
[10:05] <tseng> heh.
[10:06] <thom> tseng: crashy slow and may eat your mail?
[10:06] <tseng> thom: no, this guy is going to make a script to install mono apps + his custom theme on a ubuntu breezy system it sounds like
[10:06] <thom> ah
[10:07] <tseng> im just trying to figure out what he is smoking
[10:09] <tseng> We are planning on an 'Expansion
[10:09] <tseng> > Pack' for the GNOME 2.10/Ubuntu Desktop called 'Evolution
[10:09] <tseng> > Desktop'.
[10:10] <wasabi_> oGo?
[10:10] <tseng> oh nm thats not to sounder, thats to mako.
[10:24] <\sh> http://people.zoy.org/~sam/phd-sarge.png
[10:25] <pitti> hi
[10:26] <sivang> hey pitti 
[10:26] <sivang> pitti: almost time for bed, isn't it?
[10:26] <sivang> pitti: (for me at least)
[10:27] <\sh> sivang: CC meeting this evening :)
[10:28] <pitti> sivang: yep, just returned from dancing, I wanted to see what I broke with my upload rave today
[10:28] <pitti> huh, CC today?
[10:28] <Burgundavia> mdz, thanks
[10:28] <\sh> pitti: 0:00 our time
[10:28] <sivang> pitti: for pg ?
[10:29] <sivang> \sh: huh?
[10:29] <sivang> \sh: tommorow no?
[10:29] <pitti> \sh: no, it's tomorrow
[10:29] <pitti> \sh: i. e. Wednesday morning of our time
[10:29] <\sh> no
[10:29] <\sh> 06.06. 22:00 utc
[10:29] <\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar
[10:29] <sivang> \sh: that;s not whay the topic in #u-m says
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: dholbach said that meeting is tonight too
[10:30] <\sh> The next meeting of the Council will be on June 6th 2005 at 22:00 UTC 
[10:30] <\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[10:30] <pitti> oops
[10:30] <pitti>  Tue 7 June 22:00 UTC Community Council 
[10:30] <\sh> well...irc is not trustable
[10:31] <pitti> bah
[10:31] <pitti> I'm totally tired
[10:31] <\sh> where's janeW? she knows :)
[10:31] <pitti> why it is on Monday, it was always Tuesday...
[10:31] <\sh> pitti: for us it's tuesday
[10:31] <sivang> \sh: where are you on?
[10:31] <sivang> s/on/in/
[10:31] <\sh> .de
[10:32] <sivang> so, it's the same as for me,
[10:32] <crevette> de is tuesday ?
[10:32] <sivang> late monday :-)
[10:32] <sivang> so it is tommorow
[10:32] <sivang> then
[10:32] <crevette> fr is sitll monday and its only 10:30
[10:32] <crevette> :)
[10:32] <sivang> pitti: well, another CC meeting I'll miss :-/
[10:32] <sivang> pitti: just came back from work, am exhusted
[10:36] <\sh> sivang: you're not the only one...
[10:38] <sivang> \sh: strange, topic over u-m says 22:00 UTC, Tue
[10:38] <sivang> \sh: where am I going wrong there?
[10:38] <\sh> one information is wrong
[10:39] <\sh> mako: ping 
[10:39] <whiprush> jdub: fridge!
[10:40] <shaya> anyone using new evolution? :)
[10:48] <shaya> bug report time "Evolution Error: Could not create composer window, unable to activate the html editor control"
[10:48] <zul> bah...html in email is evil
[10:49] <shaya> zul: yes
[10:49] <shaya> but even plain text evo email uses that control
[10:49] <shaya> and i fixed it
[10:49] <shaya> dependency problem
[10:49] <shaya> libgtkhtml3.8 which evo depends on, didn't pull in gtkhtml3.8 package
[10:49] <shaya> which is what editor needs
[10:51] <moquist> does anybody here know if Hoary supports / on RAID?
[10:51] <moquist> sorry, I meant to post in #ubuntu.
[10:52] <moquist> irssi windows ain't where they used to be...
[11:05] <KaiL> should packages from debian/sid currently automatically move into breezy?
[11:09] <KaiL> everybody in meeting?
[11:09] <jdub> KaiL: probably bad time, timezone wise
[11:09] <jdub> KaiL: sid stuff is merged once daily, i think
[11:10] <KaiL> jdub: could you take a look at ncmpc?
[11:10] <KaiL> crashes on startup and is broken since ages
[11:12] <KaiL> quite interesting: this -1 was never in debian, it's taken from progn.org
[11:16] <\sh> Package: libbonobomm1.3
[11:16] <\sh> Binary: libbonobomm1.3-9c2, libbonobomm1.3-dev
[11:16] <\sh> but libbonobomm1.3-9c2 is not on the servers
[11:26] <anibal> where does the Community Council meet?
[11:26] <dholbach> anibal: #ubuntu-meeting
[11:26] <anibal> dholbach, thanks
[11:26] <dholbach> de rien
[11:26] <tseng> hi dholbach 
[11:27] <dholbach> elmo: do you require some of action of me to get into the main keyring?
[11:27] <dholbach> hey tseng :)
[11:27] <Kamion> CC meeting should be tomorrow, I believe; there was some date confusion
[11:27] <Kamion> somebody put "Tuesday 6 June" as the date of the next meeting
[11:27] <Kamion> they're generally Tuesdays, so I've changed the topic to say 7 June
[11:27] <Kamion> I certainly can't be at this meeting anyway; I need to fall over soon
[11:27] <\sh> hmmm...
[11:28] <dholbach> i will change Calendar and CommunityCouncil accordingly
[11:28] <\sh> confusion ;)
[11:28] <\sh> so tomorrow
[11:28] <Kamion> dholbach: thanks
[11:28] <Kamion> mako: you agree it's tomorrow, right?
[11:32] <Burgundavia> Kamion, oh, crap, that was me
[11:32] <mdke> didn't we have one last week?
[11:32] <mdke> time flies
[11:32] <Burgundavia> Kamion, I editing the wiki page and didn't confirm the date
[11:33] <elmo> dholbach: mail keyring@?
[11:33] <dholbach> elmo: ok
[11:34] <dholbach> elmo: will do
[11:38] <\sh> lets welcome sarge ;)
[11:38] <\sh> a big bottle of champagne :)
[11:41] <mdke> hmm
[11:41] <jdub> mjg59: around?
[11:49] <mako> Kamion: it's tomorrow
[11:54] <mdke> hey mako
[11:55] <dholbac1> ok, i'm off to bed now too
[11:55] <mdke> night dholbac1 
[11:55] <dholbac1> have a nice evening
[11:56] <\sh> g'night too