[12:03] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: would it be useful for me to send a big box then?
[12:03] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: where is SC?
[12:03] <SquishyWaffle> I'm sure the guys would appreciate it if you can spare them. South Carolina, USA
[12:04] <SquishyWaffle> And the LUG is Clemson Linux User Group
[12:04] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: oh actually I might need a phone number too, the parcel company seems to need that
[12:04] <SquishyWaffle> no problem, want that in email or PM?
[12:06] <Riddell> e-mail 
[12:10] <SquishyWaffle> We're distributing our campus laptops next year with Ubuntu pre-installed, will make for a lot of easy Kubuntu infections :)
[12:22] <uniq> great :)
[12:23] <uniq> gnite all, more "school" tomorrow..  psychology is so boring.
[12:24] <SquishyWaffle> until you get to abnormal psych :)
[12:24] <uniq> we're at social.. 
[12:24] <SquishyWaffle> ugh
[12:24] <SquishyWaffle> just be glad it's not math
[12:25] <uniq> it's a 'risk taking and decisionmaking class' but it's basically just psychology.
[12:25] <SquishyWaffle> ohh, ok
[12:25] <uniq> well gnite.
[12:26] <uniq> btw. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagingGuide 
[12:26] <uniq> could help you some.. ref. -motu.
[12:28] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, I updated it a bit earlier today with some corrections/additions
[12:33] <uniq> ok then :)
[02:48] <JRe> all: http://jr.falleri.free.fr/fichiers/kubuntu/ktvschedule/ <- new package of a usefull app
[03:07] <Riddell> JRe: cool, is that on the MOTUNewPackages page?
[03:08] <Riddell> doko: what do I do with a version number if it's currently -XbuildX and I add a gcc fixes patch
[03:08] <Riddell> does it go to -Xubuntu1 ?
[03:08] <JRe> Riddell: no i put it there
[03:08] <Riddell> JRe: you need to link to it from MOTUNewPackages so we can review it
[03:10] <JRe> Riddell: i have also discovered (and packaged) a cool app but no new version since one year: http://kickpim.sourceforge.net <- kicker applet displaying infromations from KDEPIM
[03:10] <JRe> Riddell: what do you think about that?
[03:13] <Riddell> JRe: is it maintained?
[03:17] <JRe> no version since a year i write a mail to the upstream! but it's a very good idea i think!
[03:17] <Riddell> JRe: yeah looks cool, it's just a worry that it might break at any moment
[03:17] <Riddell> but if it works for now that's all good
[03:18] <doko> Riddell: yes
[03:18] <JRe> saying that i packaging that without one patch would be a lie, but i tested it and it works well
[03:19] <JRe> i want to know what the upstream say i send him a mail right now
[03:29] <Riddell> if any MOTUs are wanting jobs there's any number of universe KDE uploads that need GCC 4 fixes
[03:30] <elmo> Riddell: you might want to qualify 'jobs' :-P
[03:32] <JRe> i am not a motu but i could help for that!
[03:32] <Riddell> JRe: are you a member yet?  community council meeting tonight
[03:32] <JRe> Riddell: no, still at midnight
[03:32] <JRe> :(
[03:33] <Riddell> JRe: you don't like to stay up late?
[03:34] <JRe> Riddell: i have no internet connection at home because i am in italy for 2 month
[03:34] <Riddell> ah yes
[03:34] <Riddell> JRe: basket is next on the list to be fixed
[03:35] <JRe> Riddell: okay i try to fix it :)
[03:35] <Riddell> JRe: work out what the issue is, fix it, make it a nice patch in debian/patches called kubuntu_01_gcc4_fixes.diff or something
[03:36] <Riddell> get me to check and upload, report on malone, send to upstream
[03:36] <Riddell> could also try checking upstream incase they've already fixed it
[03:36] <JRe> Riddell: sure!  okay
[03:39] <JRe> Riddell: KickPIM author has stop development :( so better not package it at the moment
[03:41] <Riddell> JRe: offer to take it over :)
[03:41] <JRe> Riddell: :)
[04:05] <JRe> Riddell: basket seems to compile with gcc4, no?
[04:09] <Riddell> JRe: dunno, what does the build log say?
[04:09] <Riddell> ah, it's a 64 bit issue by the looks of them
[04:09] <Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/basket/0.5.0-1build1/
[04:10] <Riddell> JRe: do you have access to a 64 bit machine?
[04:11] <JRe> Riddell: nop unfortunately
[04:13] <Riddell> JRe: brahms is next on the list if you're up for looking at another
[04:13] <JRe> okay ;)
[04:13] <JRe> Riddell: thanks
[04:14] <Riddell> thank you
[04:14] <JRe> Riddell: if i want to find one, i just have to take one which has failed on the build log list, right?
[04:14] <Riddell> JRe: yes but check with me first since I might be working on it
[04:15] <JRe> Riddell: okay!
[04:41] <JRe> Riddell: basket upstream has no patch for 64 + gcc4 compile issue
[04:50] <Riddell> usually they're not difficult to fix but kinday need a 64 bit machine to test it
[05:02] <SquishyWaffle> Wow, the Ubuntu wiki is incredibly slow :)
[05:03] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: it also does bad things to kio_http in KDE 3.4.0
[05:03] <SquishyWaffle> Eh? On the client machines?
[05:03] <Riddell> yes
[05:03] <Riddell> makes it use 99% CPU
[05:04] <SquishyWaffle> Is this with all browsers or just Konqueror?
[05:04] <Riddell> just konqueror
[05:04] <Riddell> fixed in 3.4.1
[05:04] <SquishyWaffle> ah, I'm running 3.4.1 and Firefox
[05:04] <Riddell> then it's just plan slow
[05:04] <SquishyWaffle> That's bogus, what was causing it?
[05:04] <Riddell> plain slow
[05:05] <Riddell> not sure what was causing it
[05:05] <Riddell> but it wasn't bogus, it was quite genuine
[05:05] <SquishyWaffle> bogus being weird in this case :0
[05:06] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: fancy joining the gcc4 universe recompilation fun?
[05:07] <SquishyWaffle> Riddell: I've thought about it, we have one of my projects compiling on GCC4. If I can do it without blowing my stable Kubuntu up I will :0
[05:08] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: you'd need a breezy chroot see DebootstrapChroot
[05:08] <SquishyWaffle> ahhh, didn't realize you guys were chrooting to do that
[05:09] <JRe> most of them are running breezy, no?
[05:10] <Riddell> I don't yet
[05:12] <SquishyWaffle> Riddell: Do you guys have a running list of what needs to be recompiled?
[05:13] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: well it's all been recompiled, now we need to fix the ones that have broken
[05:13] <SquishyWaffle> Riddell: Ah, the "fun" part
[05:14] <Riddell> aye
[05:23] <SquishyWaffle> wow, AmaroK is really well done. I didn't realize they had came so far.
[05:23] <Riddell> does it have advanced features like "being usable" yet?
[05:24] <SquishyWaffle> It really does :)
[05:24] <SquishyWaffle> Somewhat of a combination of Windows Media Player and JuK with some spiffy integration with MusicBrain
[05:25] <SquishyWaffle> Doesn't look to be very easy on low-end machines because of all the effects it uses unless you run it in minimal mode but it's running very well on my 2.8 ghz /w 750 Meg RAM
[05:45] <SquishyWaffle> What version of libgcc1 are you guys running?
[05:45] <SquishyWaffle> outside of your chroot environment?
[05:47] <Riddell> Version: 1:4.0-0pre6ubuntu7
[05:47] <Riddell> says here
[05:48] <SquishyWaffle> how in the heck did I end up with 7ubuntu6~5.04ubp1?
[05:48] <SquishyWaffle> is that with the KDE 3.4.1 release?
[05:49] <Riddell> Source: gcc-4.0 (4.0ds6-0pre6ubuntu7)
[05:49] <Riddell> won't have anything to do with KDE
[05:50] <SquishyWaffle> I'm running gcc 3.3.5 though
[05:51] <Riddell> me too.  I'm sure there's a parfectly rational explanation for it
[05:51] <SquishyWaffle> I copy and pasted that sources list from Ubuntuguide.rg and added the kde 3.4.1 release to it, I wonder if something in there caused that
[05:52] <Riddell> ubp is ubuntu backports
[05:53] <SquishyWaffle> doh, I didn't even look at that
[05:53] <SquishyWaffle> so I guess it's a bad idea to run backports on your machine you use to package stuff unless you chroot?
[05:56] <Riddell> bad idea to run backports :)
[05:57] <SquishyWaffle> shoot, I've been having fun with them :0
[06:07] <uniq> hi.
[06:50] <Riddell> hello uniq, fancy doing some gcc 4 fixes?
[06:54] <uniq> sure. you got a list? 
[06:55] <uniq> kubuntugcc4fixes.xxx :] 
[06:57] <Riddell> uniq: next on the list is something called celestia
[06:57] <uniq> ok.
[06:57] <Riddell> 14:35 < Riddell> JRe: work out what the issue is, fix it, make it a nice patch in debian/patches called
[06:58] <Riddell>                  kubuntu_01_gcc4_fixes.diff or something
[06:58] <Riddell> 14:36 < Riddell> get me to check and upload, report on malone, send to upstream
[06:58] <Riddell> 14:36 < Riddell> could also try checking upstream incase they've already fixed it
[06:58] <uniq> ok :)
[08:10] <uniq> riddell: x is too broken i breezy.. can't get anything using Xlib.h to compile.
[08:12] <uniq> have to wait till the headers of glx.h are changed.
[08:12] <uniq> make that glx.h and friends. 
[08:14] <uniq> or.. wait.
[08:21] <uniq> looks like changing mirrors did it.
[08:22] <Riddell> X errors are nasty
[08:26] <allee> got a new box ;)  Installed hoary and sarge (sid, suse on TODO).  How's breezy?  Better wait?  I want to test LaptopKeycodes there too.
[08:26] <uniq> debian got celestia 1.3.2 we have 1.3.0
[08:27] <uniq> maybe I should try to compile the debian package and merge the  changelogs? 
[08:27] <uniq> instead of fixing 1.3.0.. 
[08:27] <uniq> allee: I think breezy is a bit unstable still. I don't use it.
[08:27] <allee> uniq: if not again a policy it makes lots of sense
[08:29] <allee> uniq: ok.  thx.   I'll wait a bit longer
[08:29] <uniq> riddell: ping? merge with debian? go/no-go? if it compiles cleanly maybe we should wait for the sync? 
[08:30] <uniq> universe will become a huge unmanagable monster if we keep making our own versions of everything. Not that i have too many packages to handle but generaly it's a good idea to cooperate with debian i guess.
[08:30] <allee> I would at least give 1.3.2 a try.
[08:31] <allee> uniq: gcc 4 transition in debian will start soon I assume. Until then .... argl...
[08:32] <Riddell> uniq: using debian version sounds good
[08:33] <uniq> x11proto-gl-dev needs to be updated though.. 
[08:33] <Riddell> uniq: updated to what?
[08:33] <uniq> the headers of it's include files doesn't match the current x11 placing of includes.
[08:33] <Riddell> that's not good
[08:33] <uniq> /usr/include/GL/glx.h:39:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
[08:33] <uniq> /usr/include/GL/glx.h:40:23: error: X11/Xutil.h: No such file or directory
[08:34] <Riddell> do you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h installed?
[08:35] <uniq> libx11-dev: /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h
[08:35] <uniq> yes.
[08:35] <uniq> it has moved.
[08:35] <uniq> as far as i can see.
[08:36] <Riddell> moved from where?
[08:36] <uniq>  /usr/include/X11/ i guess? 
[08:36] <Riddell> ah the /usr/include/X11 -> ../X11R6/include/X11 synlink has gone
[08:36] <uniq> x11proto-gl-dev thinks they should be there don't it? 
[08:36] <uniq> doesn't
[08:37] <Riddell> sounds like gcc isn't getting the right include pat
[08:37] <Riddell> sounds like gcc isn't getting the right include path
[08:37] <uniq> I added -I/usr/X11R6/include but it didn't help.
[08:38] <Riddell> strange
[08:38] <uniq> I can try with some configure option if it exists.
[08:38] <Riddell> --with-inclues=/usr/X11R6/include  or something
[08:40] <uniq> --with-extra-includes sounds like what i want.
[08:46] <uniq> no dice.
[08:53] <hunger> Hi there!
[08:53] <Riddell> another one to join the gcc 4 fixes marathon
[08:53] <hunger> I see the gcc transition is making progress.
[08:54] <hunger> Only k3b and ooo-kde are stopping me from reinstalling kubuntu-desktop:-)
[08:54] <Riddell> poke amu for k3b
[08:55] <Riddell> be polite though :)
[08:55] <\sh> Riddell: please patch this "cdrdao" dialog 
[08:55] <hunger> amu: Riddell told me to do that;-)
[08:55] <Riddell> \sh: which?
[08:56] <\sh> Riddell: if cdrdao is not installed, k3b is complaining...but k3b doesn't need any cdrdao, cdrtools is enough for bin/cue handling
[08:58] <Riddell> like I say, poke amu :)
[08:59] <\sh> Riddell: I will remove it by myself ,-)
[09:03] <Riddell> so hunger, going to join us in gcc 4 fixes?
[09:04] <hunger> Riddell: I am willing to test whatever you throw at me, but I do not have the time to fix stuff right now.
[09:04] <Riddell> ah well
[09:25] <SquishyWaffle> Am I just blowing smoke here?: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=203332#post203332
[09:26] <SquishyWaffle> I don't want to come across as whining but the Wiki as it stands is kinda kludgey :(
[09:26] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: it's being changed
[09:26] <SquishyWaffle> What's going on with it?
[09:27] <Riddell> it used to be moinmoin, but to get it more integrated with the website it was changed to plone's wiki, but as you say it's not very good so it's being changed back
[09:29] <SquishyWaffle> I thought what we're on right now is MoinMoin
[09:30] <SquishyWaffle> I'd go to town on KDE documentation because it's my forte but it's like pulling teeth to write things right now :(
[09:32] <Riddell> the documentation team work in SVN
[09:32] <Riddell> try asking on #ubuntu-docs how you can help
[09:33] <SquishyWaffle> ok
[09:51] <SquishyWaffle> do we have any guys from the Kubuntu group working on the docs team?
[10:10] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: froud
[10:11] <Riddell> hunger: that's almost all of them
[10:11] <SquishyWaffle> froud?
[10:11] <hunger> Riddell: Yeap.... sometimes I wish I was a closed-source fan... then I'd not have to see the mess.
[10:12] <Riddell> doesn't make it go away
[10:13] <SquishyWaffle> Riddell: what's a froud? :)
[10:15] <hunger> I do not envy the poor guy that is going to package koffice with gcc 4:-(
[10:16] <SquishyWaffle> with gcj?
[10:18] <Riddell> hunger: why?
[10:18] <hunger> actually kexi at least does build fine after adding some forward declarations.
[10:18] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: koffice doesn't use java, it's not silly
[10:18] <SquishyWaffle> ohhh, koffice, sorry, openoffice != koffice :0
[10:18] <SquishyWaffle> knee-jerk reaction
[10:19] <hunger> Riddell: Because it took a while for me to figure out the missing forward declaration(s).
[10:19] <hunger> Riddell: Once that is done it actually builds nicely.
[10:24] <hunger> Damn... it does not work afterwards:-(
[10:29] <hunger> I get lots of this:
[10:29] <hunger> dangling: /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/da/amarok/common -> ../common
[10:29] <hunger> when running symlinks. What is wrong there?
[10:30] <allee> hunger: kde-i18n-da not installed???
[10:31] <hunger> allee: It should be... I definitly did not create that link manually.
[10:32] <allee> hunger: interesting this link is dangleing in sarge + 3.4 too
[10:33] <hunger> allee: It is there is no ... /da/amarok/common in the amarok deb (which has the ../da/)
[10:33] <allee> hunger: the ../common link is dangling here on sarge for all langs that have no correspondig kde-i18n-<lang> isntalled
[10:33] <uniq> riddell: the celestia debian package builds when i make symlinks of  /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h and Xutil.h in /usr/X11R6/include/X11/ . FYI.
[10:34] <Riddell> uniq: hmm, kinday cheating 
[10:34] <uniq> fixing 1.3.0 (which is in ubuntu) is a 4 line patch.
[10:34] <uniq> I know, it's just to check nothing else is wrong.
[10:35] <Riddell> uniq: what's the patch?
[10:35] <Riddell> uniq: is the patch adding those links?
[10:35] <uniq> riddell: add 'typename' two places in one file. don't have a patch ready though.
[10:36] <uniq> no, I don't want to mess with X stuff with a package.
[10:36] <uniq> a non-x package that is.
[10:36] <Riddell> uniq: so which package is giving you the problems with X includes?
[10:37] <uniq> x11proto-gl-dev
[10:38] <uniq> or libx11-dev depending on which is the proper directory for includes.
[10:39] <Riddell> you're trying to compile x11proto-gl-dev?
[10:39] <uniq> libx11-dev uses /usr/X11R6/include/X11
[10:39] <uniq> and x11proto-gl-dev uses /usr/include/X11
[10:39] <uniq> no, i'm not.
[10:40] <Riddell> hunger: we do have packages of kofficce 1.4 beta
[10:40] <Riddell> uniq: celestia 1.3.0 needs a 4 line patch, does it also need symlinks?
[10:41] <hunger> Riddell: Where?
[10:41] <uniq> riddell: yes, patch and symlinks.
[10:41] <Riddell> hunger: http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/koffice-1.4-beta1/kubuntu/
[10:41] <Riddell> uniq: right
[10:42] <Riddell> uniq: what about the 1.3.2 from debian?
[10:42] <uniq> riddell: only symlinks.
[10:42] <Riddell> evening motaboy 
[10:42] <allee> hunger: check again:  amarok has the ../common symlib in the deb.   And the link target is in corresponding  kde-i18n-<lang>
[10:43] <Riddell> uniq: maybe we should upload 1.3.2 then and see what the build daemons make of it
[10:43] <allee> hi motaboy 
[10:43] <motaboy> Hi All!
[10:43] <motaboy> Hi Riddell!
[10:43] <hunger> Riddell: Those do no longer work.
[10:43] <motaboy> hi allee 
[10:43] <Riddell> hunger: why not?
[10:43] <hunger> allee: Yes, you are right, there is a common...
[10:44] <hunger> Riddell: "depends on kdelibs4 (>= 4:3.4.0)" and "depends on libqt3c102-mt (>= 3:3.3.3)"
[10:45] <allee> anyone happen to know where the translation in xkb/symbol/* of:  key (like <i65>) to keycode (in output of xev) is defined?  I can't find it anymore :(
[10:45] <Riddell> hunger: that makes sense
[10:45] <hunger> Riddell: Both are not going to get installed.
[10:45] <Riddell> hunger: you should be able to just recompile though
[10:45] <Riddell> but koffice comes with an old version of kexi
[10:45] <uniq> the symlink problem explained: celestia includes glx.h (x11proto-gl-dev) which tries to incude Xlib.h and Xutil.h (libx11-dev) which isn't found where they are expected to be. because libx11-dev has moved some files around or something. phew.
[10:46] <hunger> Riddell: There is koffice rc1 now... that should have a fairly new kexi.
[10:46] <Riddell> hunger: no, koffice 1.4 is releasing with kexi 0.8, there is already a kexi 0.9
[10:46] <Riddell> hopefully motaboy can confirm that
[10:47] <uniq> riddell: we could do that.. looks like celestia 1.3.0 isn't changed for ubuntu in the first place, so no changelog merging needed.
[10:47] <hunger> Riddell: Damn. I think I'll need the new one than... my deb-addiction, you know.
[10:54] <Riddell> uniq: I put your ppc .debs on the hoary-kde341 archives, sorry for the delay
[10:54] <Riddell> might be a good idea to test them 
[10:54] <hunger> hoary-kde341 archives?
[10:54] <uniq> I use most of the ppc debs.
[10:55] <hunger> Ah, found it...
[10:55] <uniq> riddell: it's nice of you to mirror my very informative homepage too :)
[10:56] <hunger> Are those debs "official"?
[10:57] <Riddell> hunger: official kubuntu
[10:58] <hunger> Why are they not listed in a more prominent place?
[10:59] <hunger> My boss bitched to me about no kde 3.4.1 in hoary the whole day long... and he stays up to date most with the usual repositories for hoary.
[11:00] <Riddell> hunger: hoary is frozen, it doesn't get new packages
[11:00] <hunger> Riddell: That's bugfixes;-)
[11:00] <Riddell> it was announced on the mailing lists, website and KDE dot news
[11:01] <hunger> Riddell: I'll kill him tomorrow!
[11:02] <hunger> Riddell: He was on that f****** page all day long, looking for kde 3.4.1 debs!
[11:02] <uniq> hehe :)
[11:38] <uniq> riddell: ref. discussion in -meeting a few. min. ago, if you need someone for #kubuntu i'm up for it.
[11:40] <Riddell> uniq: I don't have powers to grant op on #kubuntu
[11:41] <Riddell> but #ubuntu is still just approving ops at CC meetings?
[11:41] <uniq> think so.
[11:43] <Riddell> uniq: if you put "Add uniq to #kubuntu opers" on the CC agenda we'll try and get you on
[11:43] <uniq> hehe ok :)
[11:43] <Riddell> anyone else want ops on #kubuntu?
[11:45] <SquishyWaffle> aroo?
[11:46] <Riddell> whit?
[11:46] <SquishyWaffle> they're looking for opers? is the channel rowdy enough for them to be needed?
[11:47] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: we've only had to use ops twice, but it's just incase there's some abuse when I'm not here
[11:47] <SquishyWaffle> I can help if need be, I'm used to the whole administering large groups of often rowdy people :/
[11:48] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: you're not a member yet though, need that first
[11:48] <SquishyWaffle> oh yeah, I don't know how long that'll take to reach
[11:48] <SquishyWaffle> Working on it though :)
[11:48] <uniq> there are a few good points at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat
[11:48] <Riddell> fix some packages in the next 10 minutes and we can get you on :)
[11:49] <SquishyWaffle> shoot, I'm not _that_ good, I'm a newbie packager and my C/C++ skills aren't wonderful :)
[11:49] <SquishyWaffle> I can stumble my way through packaging things that compile fine but fixing things aside from trivial errors...eek :)
[11:50] <SquishyWaffle> Depending on how things go with fixing my project's mail transfer agent I may be able to get a new .deb or two in tonight but I wouldn't know where to begin fixing some of the problems you guys have been going over tonight.
[11:51] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: don't worry, plenty more community council meetings in the future :)
[11:51] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, I'm in no rush
[11:51] <SquishyWaffle> I don't suppose non-members can sit in the room un-voiced?
[11:52] <uniq> it's not restricted or anything
[11:52] <Riddell> SquishyWaffle: /join #ubuntu-meeting  all welcome
[11:52] <Riddell> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[11:53] <SquishyWaffle> very good