[12:02] <mako> mdke: hey
[12:03] <mdke> mako, did anything come of the ops in #ubuntu for CC members?
[12:03] <mako> man.. i can't recall
[12:03] <mdke> fair enough
[12:04] <mdke> is it worth discussing tomorrow?
[12:04] <mdke> mako ^
[12:08] <mako> mdke: put it on the agenda, we can skip over it if isn't
[12:08] <mdke> mako, alrighty
[12:12] <Lowe_Gear> hey
[12:12] <Lowe_Gear> i've looked thru the Breezy wiki
[12:12] <Lowe_Gear> having hopped over from Google's Summer of Code page
[12:12] <Lowe_Gear> am interested in working for one of the bounties, namely LightweightDesktop
[12:12] <Lowe_Gear> is there anybody i can talk to with regard to this?
[12:14] <IFRFLY1> Hi, all. the latest version of linux-headers-2.6.10-5-386 has caused several problems with my notebook. Where can i find the last version and revert entirely?
[12:14] <xhaker> is there someone here that i can talk to in regard to speedstep-centrino and acpicpufreq modules?
[12:15] <IFRFLY1> I should mention no one on #ubuntu could answer this over the past several hours
[12:15] <xhaker> the thing is bios.max_speed = 1700 and it only scales to 1600
[12:15] <mdke> IFRFLY1, not sure, but it would be very helpful if you could file a bug about that
[12:15] <IFRFLY1> I will do that on...where, the wiki?
[12:15] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, Linux-headers caused problems?
[12:16] <mdke> IFRFLY1, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com, thanks very much
[12:16] <IFRFLY1> Yes. First, it reverted to 0.19 of the ipw2200 driver (current stable is 1.0.0), second I've been experiencing several weird things...including the fact that my fan now never turns off despite operating temps WELL at the low end of the spectrum.
[12:16] <IFRFLY1> mdke, I will do that.
[12:17] <IFRFLY1> Can anyone offer an idea about how I might revert?
[12:17] <tseng> im not sure how linux-headers affects your running drivers and acpi
[12:17] <IFRFLY1> linux headers own the drivers and bring in the /wireless
[12:18] <IFRFLY1> afaict
[12:18] <xhaker> tseng, exactly, he might be talking abou linux-image
[12:18] <xhaker> lol
[12:18] <IFRFLY1> Maybe!
[12:18] <tseng> linux-headers brings in.. headers
[12:18] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, ubuntu never shiped 1.0+ drivers for ipw2200
[12:18] <tseng> and we didnt revert anyone ipw
[12:18] <xhaker> so it wasn't that what reverted yours to version 0,19
[12:18] <IFRFLY1> Righto. I know. But 0.19 don't work for me or anyone else (lots of forum activitiy on that one.
[12:19] <IFRFLY1> Okay, I'm willing to admit total defeat. 
[12:19] <IFRFLY1> However...
[12:19] <IFRFLY1> (locate ipw2200: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.10-5-386/include/config/ipw2200)
[12:19] <tseng> erm no
[12:19] <tseng> those are headers
[12:19] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, compile the ipw2200 module yourself.. there is more than enough info on that on the forums
[12:19] <tseng> headers are used to build glibc and 3rd party kernel modules
[12:19] <tseng> stuff like that
[12:20] <IFRFLY1> I did compile them myself and wrote the howto at http://www.nickselby.com/articles/?a=1807
[12:20] <IFRFLY1> BUt
[12:20] <IFRFLY1> after accepting an update last week offered by the update applet, I was reverted to 0.19
[12:20] <IFRFLY1> The only thing I saw was "Linux Headers"
[12:20] <tseng> so install it again
[12:20] <IFRFLY1> I did. 
[12:21] <tseng> so whats the problem
[12:21] <IFRFLY1> However while wireless is working fine, this fan problem started at exactly the same time
[12:21] <KaiL> uhm, the ipw2200 in hoary doesn't work?
[12:21] <tseng> because its not linux-headers.
[12:21] <tseng> KaiL: WFM
[12:21] <IFRFLY1> Right. I'm willing to admit both ignorance and helplessness
[12:21] <KaiL> 2 Laptops here ;)
[12:21] <IFRFLY1> However I would really like all to work as it did last week!
[12:21] <KaiL> and I'm SHURE, there would be activitily like hell, if there's a bug ;)
[12:22] <IFRFLY1> KaiL: on many people's laptops it did not.
[12:22] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, try lsmod | grep acpi
[12:22] <IFRFLY1> sony_acpi               6280  0
[12:22] <IFRFLY1> pcc_acpi               11264  0
[12:23] <xhaker> KaiL, ipw2200 v0.19 is known to die if you the connection idles a bit
[12:23] <IFRFLY1> KaiL: there was a LOT of activiity on the forums about it. I get thank you notes almost daily for the howto
[12:23] <IFRFLY1> xhaker, others also experienced difficulty in changing networks
[12:23] <xhaker> maybe,
[12:23] <KaiL> interesting...
[12:23] <IFRFLY1> Yes, esp as it was *not* universally suffered
[12:23] <xhaker> i compiled 1.0.4 and am using gtkwifi
[12:24] <KaiL> ...good, that the breezy kernel will come with 1.0.4 ;)
[12:24] <xhaker> :)
[12:24] <xhaker> didnt know that
[12:24] <IFRFLY1> I could not get anything above 1.0.0 to work on my machine, neither could literally dozens of people on the lists and forums
[12:24] <xhaker> i've been interested in the audio developments for breezy :P
[12:24] <IFRFLY1> I'd LOVE to help track it down, despite my limited technical knowledge  :)
[12:24] <IFRFLY1> I'd be willing to test and document
[12:25] <IFRFLY1> Did the result of that lsmod | grep acpi interest anyone?
[12:25] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, what? 1.0.4 modules doesnt work there?
[12:25] <Lowe_Gear> anybody: is there anybody i can talk to regarding BreezyBounties?
[12:25] <IFRFLY1> Correct. I have a presario v4020 US and nothing above 1.0.0 worked after a reboot
[12:25] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, yes.. you have a sony laptop and  the module was loaded.. 
[12:26] <IFRFLY1> I have a compaq presario V4020. A problem dawns
[12:26] <xhaker> lol
[12:26] <xhaker> compaq presario loads sony_acpi module.. something is not right
[12:27] <xhaker> is it a centrino?
[12:27] <IFRFLY1> Yes, xhaker, I would be extraordinarily grateful if someone could suggest a course of action. 
[12:27] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, sony sowing the is no problem
[12:27] <xhaker> showing
[12:27] <IFRFLY1> good
[12:28] <IFRFLY1> !
[12:28] <xhaker> it is just statint that you have the module there
[12:28] <xhaker> now
[12:28] <xhaker> try /etc/init.d/powernowd start
[12:28] <Lowe_Gear> ....... anybody: is there anybody i can talk to regarding BreezyBounties?
[12:28] <IFRFLY1> okay... It started
[12:28] <xhaker> Lowe_Gear, maybe you'll be more successful if you send a mail to the mailbox they setup?
[12:29] <Lowe_Gear> already did. thanks.
[12:29] <tseng> can you put a * in .install?
[12:29] <tseng> yes.
[12:29] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, load the cpu frequency applet
[12:29] <xhaker> see if it is scaling
[12:30] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, ?
[12:30] <IFRFLY1> Sorry, is that cpufreq-selector?
[12:31] <IFRFLY1> xhaker?
[12:32] <xhaker> lets see
[12:32] <xhaker> do that thingie again -> lsmod | grep acpi
[12:32] <IFRFLY1> sure
[12:32] <IFRFLY1> sony_acpi               6280  0
[12:32] <IFRFLY1> pcc_acpi               11264  0
[12:33] <xhaker> hmm
[12:33] <xhaker> try.. sudo modprobe acpi_cpufreq
[12:33] <IFRFLY1> hmm. FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.10-5-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): Device or resource busy
[12:34] <IFRFLY1> But ps aux | grep cpufreq shows nothing. . . If that means anything. 
[12:34] <xhaker> what is your cpu?
[12:34] <IFRFLY1> One sec. .. 
[12:35] <IFRFLY1> 1.5GHz Intel Centrino  Mobile Technology featuring Intel Pentium M Processor 715A
[12:36] <lsuactiafner> would upgrading from GLIBC_2.3.3 to GLIBC_2.3.5 create problems on hoary
[12:37] <Unfrgiven> did you guys hear that Apple's technology for allowing the same binaries on intel & ppc is called Rosetta?
[12:37] <IFRFLY1> Nice.
[12:38] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, try sudo modprobe speedstep-centrino
[12:38] <IFRFLY1> OKay...It didn't complain...
[12:38] <xhaker> :)
[12:38] <jdub> Unfrgiven: yeah, lots :)
[12:39] <xhaker> is it scaling?
[12:39] <IFRFLY1> I am unable to launch that monitor
[12:40] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, d you know how?
[12:40] <IFRFLY1> The cpu frequency applet? Probably not - is it the cpufreq-selector?
[12:40] <xhaker> right click in gnome pannel.. add to pannel
[12:40] <IFRFLY1> I was doing ALT+F2 cpufreq and it autocompleted - selector...sorry, yes?
[12:41] <IFRFLY1> Ah
[12:41] <IFRFLY1> Okay. It's running and says, 600MHz
[12:41] <xhaker> :)
[12:41] <xhaker> so it is working :P
[12:42] <IFRFLY1> Righto. However I must say I'm still not sure what is causing my fan to be constantly on with temps at 43C... Though that monitor is cool! 
[12:43] <IFRFLY1> And I take it I could scale this up to go to 1.5MHz if I liked life on the wild side? 
[12:44] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, run glxgears on the terminal and see if it goes up
[12:44] <lsuactiafner> not wild but warm and melty
[12:44] <xhaker> and btw.. you should be using linux-image-586
[12:45] <IFRFLY1>  Isuactiafner....MMM, gooey CPU. And xhaker, affirmative: up to 1.50 and I'm stoping it before I have an intel sandwich.
[12:45] <xhaker> instead of 386 stuff
[12:45] <IFRFLY1> THAT was a cool thing, xhaker.  
[12:45] <IFRFLY1> I agree -- I asked on forums as to why I had 386 and no one could tell me. Being new and all......
[12:45] <IFRFLY1> Can you tell me how I can get the 586 stuff?
[12:45] <lsuactiafner> xhaker : how would i go about updating to GLIBC_2.3.5? and will it be relativly safe on hoary?
[12:45] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, it doesn't melt or something :P
[12:45] <IFRFLY1> Grill?
[12:46] <xhaker> lsuactiafner, i believe someone answered that already.. don't!
[12:47] <lsuactiafner> didnt see anyone answer me? except someone that told me glibc aint fun
[12:47] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, 386 kernel is the kernel that works on every x86 platform :P but if you want to get a speed boost from current cpus.. you should use 586
[12:47] <lsuactiafner> becuase i want to install newest nvidia drivers
[12:48] <xhaker> lsuactiafner, when you try to install glibc 2.3.5 does it tell you that it has to remove anything?
[12:48] <IFRFLY1> Actually, here's the thing: I'm actually quite pleased with ALL ubuntu has bropught me: speed, power, battery management, color, it's lovely. Until last week when the fan started running all the time with temps in the 40s. HP says temp operating range is 40 to 60C before the fan needs to be on. But since accepting the upgrade option from the update applet, the fan has kicked on constantly. 
[12:49] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, ohh.. and if you install the 586 kernel you'll have to recompile the i386 module again
[12:49] <lsuactiafner> well sadly i cant find the apt-get package to install to upgrade.. heh
[12:49] <xhaker> ipw2200
[12:49] <xhaker> i meant
[12:49] <IFRFLY1> I don't mind that at all>...
[12:49] <IFRFLY1> Long as the breeze and fan noise stops. 
[12:49] <IFRFLY1> it's like  three minute compile all steps included!
[12:50] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, i guess i'm lucky.. my fans are quiet most of the time.. but my processor only scales to 1600 and it is 1700 max
[12:50] <xhaker> lol
[12:50] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, you have to install the linux-headers-586 too
[12:50] <xhaker> you should know that by now ;)
[12:51] <IFRFLY1> I see. But I guess what I am saying is that the fan should NOT be on and didn't used to be on and I wonder how I can track down what has changed since last week as I've not changed anything except the upgrade .......
[12:51] <IFRFLY1> Can you help me track down the problem?
[12:51] <xhaker> is the fan still making noise now?
[12:51] <IFRFLY1> Yes!
[12:51] <IFRFLY1> It has not turned off in the past four hours!
[12:52] <xhaker> try  lsmod | grep thermal
[12:52] <IFRFLY1> thermal                13576  0
[12:52] <IFRFLY1> processor              22708  2 speedstep_centrino,thermal
[12:52] <lsuactiafner> IFRFLY1 : run top check if something is using your CPU
[12:52] <lsuactiafner> more than it should
[12:53] <xhaker> lsuactiafner, he has the cpu freq applet in gnome.. and it says 600mhz
[12:53] <xhaker> its in low profile
[12:53] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, is the monitor still saying 600mhz?
[12:53] <IFRFLY1> I did, and I'm running gkrellm and it shows NOTHing. CPU at no more than 16% and temps showing as 41.C and 43C for the two sensors
[12:53] <IFRFLY1> Yessir
[12:53] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: you are shure, it's the cpu fan?
[12:53] <IFRFLY1> NO!
[12:53] <IFRFLY1> No one has asked me.
[12:54] <IFRFLY1> What other fans would there be?
[12:54] <xhaker> HD
[12:54] <xhaker> hard drive maybe
[12:54] <KaiL> there could be one on the graphcs chip...
[12:54] <lsuactiafner> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[12:54] <IFRFLY1> Well. The disk activity monitor shows very little actitivity.....one sec...
[12:54] <lsuactiafner> cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep MHz
[12:55] <IFRFLY1> just like the monitor says: cpu MHz         : 598.719
[12:55] <lsuactiafner> what power management does his chip use? maybe the process aint running..
[12:55] <xhaker> lsuactiafner, it is man..
[12:55] <xhaker> i made him load it
[12:55] <lsuactiafner> am tailing @ the end of a discussion so not sure if you guys checked that already
[12:55] <xhaker> speedstep-centrino
[12:55] <KaiL> xhaker: should that be autoloaded by powernowd?
[12:55] <IFRFLY1> xhaker, should that have loadded...
[12:55] <lsuactiafner> config correct?
[12:55] <IFRFLY1> Oh.
[12:56] <KaiL> shouldn't.. better
[12:56] <xhaker> KaiL, correct.. powernowd should have loaded that automaticly but it didnt
[12:56] <xhaker> :S
[12:56] <KaiL> lsuactiafner: his clock is at 600MHz, so the CPU is NOT that problem.
[12:56] <KaiL> xhaker: strange - never saw that happen on a Pentium M
[12:56] <lsuactiafner> think powernowd is amd only
[12:56] <KaiL> lsuactiafner: don't think to much :p
[12:57] <lsuactiafner> i run my 3200+ @ 100% cpu usage with FAH@Home to keep my room warm.. winter..
[12:57] <lsuactiafner> prolly an expensive way to convert energy to heat..
[12:57] <xhaker> KaiL, never? I have a Pentium M 1.7 ghz.. it loads acpicpufreq instead of speedstep-centrino and my max speed is limited to 1.6ghz
[12:57] <xhaker> lol
[12:58] <KaiL> if you don't need to pay for it and like it to waste energy...
[12:58] <xhaker> lsuactiafner, powernowd is a daemon for all cpu types
[12:58] <lsuactiafner> heh
[12:58] <lsuactiafner> south-africa got cheap energy
[12:58] <lsuactiafner> but.. my roomie pays power since i rent from him
[12:58] <xhaker> KaiL, saw what i wrote before?
[12:59] <lsuactiafner> he got me using energy-effiecient bulbs that make practially no light
[12:59] <IFRFLY1> When I look at gkrellm's disk section it seems to be under 20K, mostly around 12K and lots of idle time. Doesn't seem to be too busy . . . 
[12:59] <KaiL> xhaker: about your lap?
[01:00] <xhaker> yes
[01:00] <xhaker> speedstep-centrino gives an error when trying to load
[01:00] <xhaker> no such device
[01:00] <xhaker> lol
[01:01] <lsuactiafner> i got so much lag suddenly on the dailup
[01:01] <IFRFLY1> Perhaps I can put this another way: is there anything which would have changed in the latest image for my machine which could have affected whether the fans kick on as silly as that sounds?  
[01:02] <KaiL> xhaker: strange, shure it's a 1.7? ;)
[01:02] <xhaker> it is
[01:02] <xhaker> bios.max_speed = 1700
[01:02] <KaiL> lol
[01:02] <xhaker> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.70GHz
[01:02] <xhaker> if i disable powernowd it runs at 1.7gz
[01:03] <lsuactiafner> whats min_speed?
[01:03] <xhaker> 600
[01:03] <KaiL> that's VERY strange
[01:03] <xhaker> i had filled a bug on warty times
[01:03] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: even more funny: that was only a sec....
[01:03] <IFRFLY1> Sorry KaiL?
[01:03] <lsuactiafner> sysctl -a | grep min
[01:03] <KaiL> do you have a geforce go in that?
[01:04] <xhaker> huh?
[01:04] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: ?
[01:04] <IFRFLY1> Sorry, ?
[01:04] <KaiL> the graphics chip
[01:04] <IFRFLY1> AH. ONe sec.
[01:04] <KaiL> we had somebody who had a broken nvidia driver after that update
[01:04] <IFRFLY1> HP says: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900-
[01:05] <KaiL> maybe same here and that killed something
[01:05] <IFRFLY1> But how can I be certain?>
[01:05] <IFRFLY1> The other question was, is it possible to revert to what worked?
[01:05] <KaiL> lspci | grep VGA
[01:05] <IFRFLY1> yes....one sec
[01:05] <IFRFLY1> 0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. Mobile Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[01:06] <xhaker> its not your graphics card then
[01:06] <xhaker> lol
[01:06] <IFRFLY1> Nice to know!
[01:06] <KaiL> looks like intel....
[01:06] <xhaker> not more wierd than my problem but wierd nonetheless
[01:06] <KaiL> whyever that is called "Accelerator" (650fps in glxgears(, but that's OT
[01:06] <xhaker> i have a question.. is it sure or shure?
[01:07] <xhaker> i'm portuguese but i'm pretty sure it's sure
[01:07] <KaiL> think so
[01:07] <mdke> yes
[01:07] <xhaker> KaiL and I'm SHURE, there would be activitily like hell, if there's a bug ;)
[01:07] <xhaker> lol
[01:08] <xhaker> KaiL, you need to learn english.. jk
[01:08] <IFRFLY1> I have, it seems, demo effect. No matter what machine I am on it crashes. I visited Nokia HQ a few years ago and their newest Nokia Communicator crashed as they demo'd it to me. 
[01:08] <IFRFLY1> So I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's not a widespread bug ;)
[01:09] <xhaker> lol
[01:09] <xhaker> you're Doomed
[01:09] <IFRFLY1> Yes. 
[01:09] <xhaker> (with mexican accent)
[01:09] <xhaker> what is the model younhave? compaq presario..
[01:09] <IFRFLY1> But seriously, would it be possible for me to revert to the last version of the linux-image without actually reinstalling from the CDRom I originally used?  
[01:09] <IFRFLY1> V4020US!
[01:10] <IFRFLY1> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=c00302894
[01:11] <IFRFLY1> BTW, after hours on the phone with HP I got a guy at corporate who said there was one (count 'em) guy in the building who used Linux. 
[01:11] <IFRFLY1> (he was on holiday)
[01:11] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: quite from interest, how fast is glxgears on that intel 9xx?
[01:12] <IFRFLY1> Errr. It zooomed up to 1.5ghz before I got scared and turned it off ;)
[01:12] <xhaker> no reason to get scared
[01:12] <xhaker> run it again
[01:12] <xhaker> it doesnt go past 1.5
[01:12] <xhaker> lol
[01:12] <IFRFLY1> okay. I got scared as it was the exact moment someone mentioned, um, melting.
[01:12] <xhaker> see in the terminal what fps fdo you get
[01:13] <IFRFLY1> okay, it's running now. 3899 frames in 5.0 seconds = 779.800 FPS
[01:13] <IFRFLY1> 5322 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1064.400 FPS
[01:13] <IFRFLY1> up to 5416...5372, that kind of thing it seems
[01:13] <xhaker> ok
[01:13] <IFRFLY1> That is a seriously cool program.
[01:14] <IFRFLY1> Which I've just stopped again!
[01:14] <xhaker> hehe
[01:14] <lsuactiafner> lol
[01:15] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, cat /proc/cpufreq
[01:15] <lsuactiafner> i didnt mention melting..
[01:15] <lsuactiafner> or incineration
[01:15] <lsuactiafner> or fireballs from space..
[01:15] <IFRFLY1>           minimum CPU frequency  -  maximum CPU frequency  -  policy
[01:15] <IFRFLY1> CPU  0       600000 kHz ( 40 %)  -    1500000 kHz (100 %)  -  userspace
[01:15] <lsuactiafner> *innocence self*
[01:16] <IFRFLY1> (18:44:21) lsuactiafner: not wild but warm and melty
[01:16] <IFRFLY1> ;)
[01:16] <lsuactiafner> rofl
[01:18] <lsuactiafner> fake logs!!
[01:18] <lsuactiafner> IFRFLY1 is an imposter!
[01:18] <lsuactiafner> he is here to discredit me...
[01:19] <IFRFLY1> It's true. I've accidentally got two copies of gaim running. My real name is...IFRFLYR
[01:19] <IFRFLY1> :P
[01:20] <tseng> comeon guys
[01:20] <lsuactiafner> tseng : you by any chance know much about tc qdisc?
[01:21] <tseng> i havent the slightest idea what you are talkinng about
[01:21] <xhaker> what about texas instruments 3in1 disk reader?
[01:21] <xhaker> lol
[01:24] <IFRFLY1> Any other ideas xhaker?
[01:24] <lsuactiafner> i want a 1in3 reader..
[01:24] <lsuactiafner> just to phreak ppl out
[01:29] <mjg59> jdub: Hello
[01:30] <jdub> mjg59: yo
[01:30] <jdub> mjg59: do you have anyone on planet debian using blogspot?
[01:31] <mjg59> jdub: Uh. No idea whatsoever, I'm afraid
[01:31] <mjg59> jdub: One thing I did want to ask, though - is there any way we can hack something in so Livejournal people can tag their entries for certain planets?
[01:32] <mjg59> There's no way to have multiple rss feeds, but it would be nice to be able to prevent certain entries hitting planets
[01:32] <IFRFLY1> Look, I"m really grateful for all the help everyone's given, and I'm sadly despairing because I know that this fan issue wasn't an issue before this update. I am sorry to be a pain, but can anyone tell me if/how I can revert to the last linux-image or whether upgrading to the 586 stuff will help?
[01:33] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, ty
[01:33] <xhaker> try
[01:33] <IFRFLY1> try.....?
[01:33] <xhaker> yes 
[01:34] <IFRFLY1> Ah, try the 586 stuff. 
[01:34] <xhaker> install the 586 kernel
[01:34] <xhaker> you'll have both
[01:34] <mjg59> What?
[01:34] <IFRFLY1> Yes. Is this an apt-get thing?
[01:34] <xhaker> and be asked to chose which one to boot
[01:34] <mjg59> IFRFLY1: Are you running Hoary or Breezy?
[01:34] <IFRFLY1> Hoary (5.04 if that's hoary)
[01:34] <mjg59> There has been no change in Hoary that should affect when your fan is enabled or disabled
[01:35] <mjg59> If your system behaviour has changed after a Hoary update, then file a bug
[01:35] <KaiL> daniels: please add SiS 6326 to the "16bit only list", that chip has some strange bugs
[01:35] <IFRFLY1> That was where the discussion began, and I am delighted to file the bug and track it, but people on the list were helping me to determine just *what* was buggy
[01:35] <xhaker> mjg59, powernowd is loading acpicpufreq instead of speedstep centrino
[01:35] <xhaker> Hoary here
[01:36] <mjg59> xhaker: Uh. That's a perfectly reasonable thing for it to do.
[01:36] <HrdwrBoB> KaiL: what specifically, I used one for a long time in 24bit
[01:36] <xhaker> it is?
[01:36] <mjg59> Yes
[01:36] <xhaker> i have a pentium m ..
[01:36] <mjg59> xhaker: Put the contents of /proc/cpuinfo somewhere
[01:37] <xhaker> ok
[01:37] <mjg59> The only way that powernowd could change behaviour with a kernel change is if /proc/cpuinfo changed
[01:37] <xhaker> it was always like this
[01:37] <mjg59> Ok, in that case it's likely to just be a powernowd bug
[01:37] <xhaker> i've filled a bug in warty days
[01:37] <mjg59> There's no good way to tell whether a chip is a pentium m or not
[01:37] <KaiL> HrdwrBoB: the strange memory with the 4MB normal and 4MB texture
[01:38] <mjg59> And some pentium ms have broken BIOSes which mean you can't use the centrino driver
[01:38] <HrdwrBoB> KaiL: ahh, yech
[01:38] <mjg59> In that case, there's a reasonable chance that the acpi driver will work, so we fall back to that
[01:38] <KaiL> the driver can use the texture mem for normal work, but get's slow like hell then
[01:39] <KaiL> HrdwrBoB: well, and with 24bit, you come over that limit quite fast
[01:40] <HrdwrBoB> KaiL: yeah 4mb isn't very much at all
[01:40] <xhaker> mjg59, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5591 this guy has the same laptop.. but, my laptop with acpicpufreq only scales to 1600 when infact it is a 1700. so that can't be right
[01:40] <IFRFLY1> mjg59, since I had no trouble until the upgrade is it possible for me to revert to what I had whch worked perfectly?
[01:41] <mjg59> xhaker: Bios bug
[01:41] <xhaker> bios.max_speed is 1700
[01:41] <xhaker> :S
[01:41] <mjg59> IFRFLY1: If you know which package was updated, then yes
[01:41] <mjg59> xhaker: ?
[01:42] <xhaker> in the device manager
[01:42] <mjg59> xhaker: That's DMI information. It's entirely separate to the ACPI performance state tables.
[01:42] <KaiL> HrdwrBoB: normal cards would tell us, if they don't have enough RAM
[01:42] <mjg59> Most bits of your BIOS are written by different people
[01:42] <xhaker> so.. it is a DSDT problem?
[01:42] <KaiL> this one just get's slow
[01:42] <IFRFLY1> Okay, thank you. Is there a record of updates which I make somewhere I can access? I blindly accepted the suggestion of the update applet so wasn't actually paying attention.
[01:43] <mjg59> xhaker: No, it's an ACPI performance table issue
[01:43] <mjg59> That's kept separately to your DSDT
[01:43] <mjg59> Oh, christ, it's an Acer
[01:43] <xhaker> hmm.. can i do something?
[01:44] <mjg59> File a bug about the driver not giving you full speed
[01:44] <mjg59> Then we'll see what we can do
[01:44] <mjg59> You're *certain* it's a 1.7GHz machine?
[01:44] <KaiL> lol
[01:45] <xhaker> mjg59, i am.
[01:45] <xhaker> i can get that speed if i disable powernowd
[01:46] <xhaker> and the cpu id is right too
[01:46] <mjg59> xhaker: Ok. Please file a bug, and we'll see what we can do
[01:46] <xhaker> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.70GHz
[01:46] <xhaker> should i include any attachments
[01:46] <xhaker> like dmesg..
[01:47] <mjg59> xhaker: If it's that fast, it's a Dothan. They *need* BIOS support for frequency scaling.
[01:47] <mjg59> And if the BIOS provides us incorrect information, then things don't work too well.
[01:47] <mjg59> Yeah, please attach dmesg and /proc/cpuinfo
[01:48] <xhaker> ok
[01:48] <IFRFLY1> mjg59, I am sorry to bother you but is there a log of what software updates does? I cannot find it. 
[01:48] <mjg59> IFRFLY1: No idea, I'm afraid
[01:48] <IFRFLY1> Thank you
[01:48] <mjg59> Sorry about that
[01:49] <mjg59> If there isn't, then there probably ought to be :)
[01:49] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: in synatic is one (if you use that)
[01:49] <IFRFLY1> KaiL, I don't. Is there any way I can determine what was done by it, as I really don't relish the idea of reinstalling from the disk just to solve this one problem!
[01:49] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, /var/cache/apt/
[01:50] <xhaker> in there are the packages you installed
[01:50] <xhaker> probably
[01:50] <xhaker> if you didnt clean them
[01:50] <xhaker> :P
[01:50] <KaiL> IFRFLY1: but that kernel update was only a security patch, so this is VERY strange
[01:50] <IFRFLY1> I wish I understood it and do not claim to. 
[01:50] <IFRFLY1> I just know that suddenly the fan started running all the timne!
[01:51] <IFRFLY1> I didn't clean the cache, though it was software update which installed it - I just signed off on it!
[01:51] <IFRFLY1> Would the record be there or in some synaptic place?
[01:51] <xhaker> IFRFLY1, /var/cache/apt/archives
[01:51] <xhaker> the packages you installed recently are all there
[01:52] <xhaker> they're downloaded to that location
[01:52] <IFRFLY1> Thanks!
[01:52] <xhaker> :)
[01:52] <xhaker> check the attributes if you want to know when where they installed
[01:52] <xhaker> and such
[01:55] <IFRFLY1> Interesting. I see linux-image-2.6.10-5-386_2.6.1 0-34.1_i386.deb was installed. ...On May 20. Meaning that this is not - as several of you surmised - the problem. The only other install done has been mozilla-firefox_1.0.2-0ubuntu5 .3_i386.deb and mozilla-firefox-gnome-support_ 1.0.2-0ubuntu5.3_i386.deb, on the 24th. 
[01:57] <xhaker> so there you have
[01:57] <xhaker> your ears are super sensitive
[01:57] <xhaker> lol
[01:57] <IFRFLY1> Mmmm.
[01:57] <KaiL> *g*
[01:57] <IFRFLY1> It's possible that it is what several have considered: a hardware problem!
[01:57] <KaiL> go on a party and it'll be solved *g*
[01:58] <IFRFLY1> Everyone, thank you for your help and patience. 
[01:58] <xhaker> np
[01:58] <jdub> elmo: planet update please :)
[01:58] <IFRFLY1> I guess I won't file that bug report now!
[02:00] <tseng> jdub: yay!
[02:23] <xhaker> mjg59, should i leave the bug unconfirmed or set it has new?
[03:23] <daniels> KaiL: can you elaborate?  got any pointers?
[03:33] <jsgotangco> morning
[04:28] <lamont> Failed to fetch http://ia/ubuntu2/dists/breezy/universe/source/Sources.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[04:28] <lamont> where is mvo when I want to bitch at him?
[04:29] <lamont> (that's when it fetches the .bz2 file, not the .gz file...)
[05:41] <whiprush> jdub: fridge!
[06:09] <fabbione> morning
[08:14] <dilinger>   # See, mom?  You *can* bubble exceptions in shell...
[08:14] <dilinger> jbailey: when i think of all the times i've argued about that w/ my mom.. :p
[08:56] <pitti> good morning
[08:57] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:59] <Unfrgiven> pitti: gday
[09:15] <Treenaks> I just got ~5 months old mail :)
[09:15] <Treenaks> no wait
[09:15] <Treenaks> I got mail he prepared 5 months ago, nm
[09:25] <pitti> elmo: can we promote the new postgresql stuff to main today to resolve all these build failures?
[09:34] <Amaranth> "The newer versions of the GNU Emacs documentation, meanwhile, uses the GNU Free Documentation License and makes use of "invariant sections" to force the inclusion of the same documents, additionally requiring that the manuals proclaim themselves as GNU Manuals, whether or not this would be accurate."
[09:34] <Amaranth> i now know why the GFDL sucks
[09:39] <\sh> anyone alive who can check, why libbonobomm1.3-9c2_1.3.8-2.2ubuntu1_*.deb is not on archive.ubuntu.com? it's compiled already since yesterday night ;)
[09:43] <\sh> and why is libccrtp compiled (failed) without even an upload
[09:45] <\sh> sourceuploaded new version libccrtp-1.3.1
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: uh, gamin finally works now? I saw that you closed the upstream bug
[10:27] <seb128> sjoerd dropped the patch for 0.1.0/Debian
[10:27] <seb128> so I've tried with the while.... without the patch
[10:27] <seb128> works fine
[10:28] <seb128> let's assume that's fixed :)
[10:28] <seb128> the other case described which was b0rked here too works fine with 0.1.0
[10:28] <Amaranth> was the gamin stuff the reason gnome-menus doesn't update at all anymore?
[10:28] <Amaranth> or is that a gnome-menus bug i should file?
[10:28] <seb128> that's not a known issue
[10:29] <seb128> since when
[10:29] <seb128> what have you changed?
[10:29] <Amaranth> 2.11.1
[10:29] <Amaranth> upgraded to that, it stopped working
[10:29] <seb128> works for me(tm)
[10:29] <Amaranth> several other people have this problem
[10:29] <Amaranth> well, at least 2 others
[10:29] <seb128> you can set GAM_DEBUG and send a debug log
[10:29] <Amaranth> err
[10:29] <infinity> seb128 : Will you take care of making sure gamin 0.1.0 gets synced?
[10:29] <infinity> seb128 : I have an open Ubuntu bug which was closed in the Debian 0.1.0.
[10:29] <Amaranth> can you put that in stupid terms (example command line)? it's 3am
[10:30] <seb128> infinity: I've already synced it half an hour ago, why ?
[10:30] <infinity> seb128 : Ahh, cool.  Then I'll close my bug. :)
[10:30] <seb128> infinity: it fixes the libfam Conflicts stuff, you have a bug open about this IIRC
[10:30] <infinity> seb128 : That's the one, yes.
[10:31] <seb128> I was going to close it sometime today, but go ahead :)
[10:31] <infinity> Closed.
[10:31] <seb128> Amaranth: I don't get your bug, if you want to be useful open a proper bug with a debug log of what gamin is doing
[10:31] <seb128> Amaranth: you can read gamin page on how to get a such log
[10:31] <Amaranth> i don't know how to find out what gamin is doing
[10:31] <seb128> I need to google for you?
[10:31] <seb128> a sec
[10:32] <Amaranth> ok, that'll have to wait until i've had sleep and remember to do it
[10:32] <seb128> http://www.gnome.org/~veillard/gamin/debug.html
[10:32] <seb128> read that 
[10:33] <Amaranth> ok
[10:33] <Amaranth> how do i kill gnome-panel and make it not start again on it's own?
[10:35] <Amaranth> oh, i can just send it a signal
[10:37] <seb128> gnome-session-remove gnome-panel
[10:37] <Amaranth> I'm guessing the problem is Queue Full
[10:37] <Amaranth> which is the bug in b.g.o about that part of the code needing to be completely rewritten
[10:38] <Amaranth> the debug log is basically nothing but Queue Full
[10:38] <seb128> you use inotify or dnotify?
[10:38] <Amaranth> no clue
[10:38] <Amaranth> i'm on the 2.6.10 kernel
[10:38] <seb128> so probably dnotify
[10:39] <seb128> and you have gamin 0.1.0 ?
[10:39] <Amaranth> yeah
[10:39] <seb128> k, I've no idea about your bug but that seems to be a gamin issue
[10:40] <seb128> feel free to bug upstreams, but don't bug on gamin without following the upstream page and beeing clear on the bug
[10:40] <Amaranth> pretty sure it's a gnome-menus bug, markmc has admitted that part of the code sucks
[10:40] <seb128> how so?
[10:41] <Amaranth> let me find the bug #
[10:41] <seb128> gamin should not break even if the gnome-menus code is crap
[10:41] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172046 ?
[10:42] <Amaranth> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160194 says it's fixed, the one you linked to says it isn't
[11:09] <Amaranth> seb128: would this happening even with a 2.6.12 kernel prove it's a gnome-menus thing?
[11:09] <Amaranth> i'm assuming gamin uses inotify on 2.6.12
[11:10] <seb128> no
[11:10] <seb128> gamin could be bugged as well
[11:10] <Amaranth> ok
[11:11] <Amaranth> Well, i'm going to bed. I'll try to get someone to help me figure out which tomorrow, I guess.
[11:11] <seb128> later
[11:14] <fabbione> elmo: ping+??
[11:14] <pitti> fabbione: what's that, an increased ping? more urgency?
[11:15] <fabbione> pitti: well i need to know how much he will hate me before i upload the next kernel, if the total amount of kernel binaries (in size) will be over a GigaByte
[11:15] <bob2> jesus
[11:15] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, given the current lack of hd space on jackass... :-)
[11:15] <fabbione> mirrors might NOT like that
[11:15] <fabbione> [   ]  linux-image-2.6.12-1-686-dbg_2.6.11.93-1.3_i386.deb          07-Jun-2005 09:57  147M
[11:16] <fabbione> what's wrong with that?
[11:16] <fabbione> ;)
[11:16] <pitti> fabbione: then make the kernel arch:all and implement it in shell *duck*
[11:16] <fabbione> pitti: that would be easier :)
[11:17] <elmo> fabbione: err, WTF?
[11:17] <elmo> dude, that's really not cool
[11:17] <fabbione> ahaha
[11:17] <fabbione> elmo: we know :)
[11:17] <pitti> Hi elmo, howdy
[11:17] <fabbione> i was just teasing you
[11:17] <fabbione> we are finding another solution
[11:17] <fabbione> elmo: i really really couldn't resit to see your face
[11:18] <fabbione> "face" -> reaction
[11:18] <pitti> elmo: do we need mdz for promoting packages to main? (the postgresql stuff, which causes ftbfs since it's still in universe)
[11:18] <fabbione> from #ubuntu-kernel:
 can you image over a GB of kernel push to the mirror on each update?
 elmo will hang us on a cross, starts the witch dance and burns us alive
[11:22] <pitti> fabbione: do we really need to have the -dbg packages in the normal archive? how many people actually use it?
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: no we can't push that to the archive.
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: we are thinking of another solution
[11:28] <elmo> pitti: do we really want both versions in main?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: have you planned to roll language-pack updates soon?
[11:29] <seb128> pitti: they changed the evolution translation domain to evolution-2.4 for the new version, so no it's not translated; which sucks
[11:30] <pitti> elmo: I think so, we need 7.4 for upgrades and 8.0 for - well - it's the latest crack
[11:30] <pitti> elmo: I have to support both anyway
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: as soon as daf builds me a new tarball
[12:06] <pitti> back, crappy network
[12:06] <pitti> I lost everything after <seb128> pitti: they changed the evolution translation domain to evolution-2.4...
[12:06] <pitti> seb128, elmo: ^ did you say anything to me after that?
[12:07] <Burgundavia> pitti, no, he didn't
[12:07] <pitti> ok, thanks
 seb128: as soon as daf builds me a new tarball
 back, crappy network
[12:09] <seb128> pitti: nobody spoke between that
[12:09] <pitti> got that, thanks
[12:26] <pitti> elmo: thanks for the psql processing
[01:09] <pitti> sjoerd: if you have some time to discuss the gvm stuff, just ping me
[01:09] <sjoerd> pitti: this evening if you don't mind.. currently working 
[01:09] <pitti> sjoerd: sure, that's fine
[01:20] <elmo> Kamion: I just upgraded a box from piglet (!) to hoary and ended up without an ssh user... ever seen anything like that?
[01:21] <Kamion> do you mean sshd?
[01:21] <Kamion> there's no ssh user
[01:21] <Kamion>         if ! getent passwd sshd >/dev/null; then
[01:21] <Kamion>                 adduser --quiet --system --no-create-home --home /var/run/sshd sshd
[01:21] <Kamion>         fi
[01:22] <Kamion> that's run unconditionally in openssh-server.postinst; would getent passwd sshd have exited zero despite the lack of the user, for some reason?
[01:22] <elmo> hmm, checking
[01:22] <elmo> (obviously can't just ssh in ;-)
[01:25] <elmo> can't see why that would fail - and it didn't when reran.  oh well
[01:30] <Kamion> elmo: unless openssh-server.postinst fell over before that
[01:30] <Kamion> it's set -e ...
[01:31] <elmo> debconf was kind of upset as I purged it's front-end-of-choice, but I didn't think that'd be enough to not run the rest of the postinst?
[01:31] <elmo> and dpkg definitely exited 0, not with an error
[01:31] <Kamion> no, debconf should fall back cleanly
[01:31] <Kamion> hm, I'm looking at current trunk, I'll dig out hoary
[01:32] <Kamion> same thing
[01:32] <Kamion> could adduser have failed silently?
[01:33] <elmo> it's possible I guess, I'm not sure what adduser was installed at the time
[01:37] <elmo> Kamion: sorry, don't worry about it, it's a fairly odd ball machine, with a unique setup, I just wondered if it's something you'd seen elsewhere - if not, I'm happy to ignore it
[01:39] <Kamion> elmo: it's not something I've heard of, certainly; just don't like to rule out weird shit
[01:48] <elmo> how have apple (or someone) NOT got sued for bodily harm resulting from the front facing laptop cd drives ejecting
[01:49] <Treenaks> elmo: expensive lawyers & disclaimers, probably
[01:51] <mdke> elmo, you can be the first
[01:56] <thom> elmo: because fortunately no-one sells sharpened cds yet
[02:00] <mdke> *grins*
[02:02] <jbailey> dilinger: =)
[02:05] <Kamion> I See A Great Need
[02:06] <nictuku> what are udusessions?
[02:06] <Kamion> UDU == Ubuntu Down Under == our last conference
[02:13] <Treenaks> thom: shuriken-shaped CDs... *hmm*
[02:30] <seb128> pitti: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-June/006986.html
[02:33] <pitti> seb128: I read it, thanks for the link
[02:33] <seb128> np
[02:49] <netdur> I use windows at moment, I'm downloading eclipse to re-compile some test code I made on ubuntu, now I'm downloading 87 MB and still able to browse web sites pretty fine, on ubuntu downloading process "eat all bandwidth" which make other uses of net a pain... mayeb should be there a way to control/limit how many bandwidth a software may use
[02:51] <sladen> netdur: QoS out-of-the-box.  Can you add it to the Ideas page?
[02:52] <netdur> okay
[02:54] <jbailey> Kamion: ping?
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: pong
[02:55] <jbailey> Kamion: Is /etc/kernel-img.conf generated by d-i?
[02:55] <netdur> sladen, wiki url!?
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: yes
[02:55] <jbailey> Kamion: Tx.
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: partly, at least ...
[02:56] <Kamion> jbailey: base-installer and the various bootloader installers cooperate to get something useful in there - I'm not sure if .debs have a say as well
[02:57] <mdke> netdur, IdeaPool
[02:57] <jbailey> Kamion: We were applying dpkg -S to it to see if someone provided it originally and not coming up with anything useful.
[02:59] <sladen> netdur: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IdeaPool  for hit on Google for   ubuntu ideas
[02:59] <sladen> first hit
[02:59] <netdur> I found :) I did search wiki for "idea pool"
[03:19] <fabbione> seb128: ping????
[03:21] <seb128> pong!!!!
[03:21] <fabbione> seb128: why did you reenable inotify backend in gamin?
[03:21] <seb128> why not?
[03:21] <Lathiat> apparently it doesnt suck so bad now
[03:21] <fabbione> it's utterly broken, it crashes and people keep ranting that it's a kernel problem
[03:21] <seb128> it's supposed to work fine now, and we are not in freeze or whatever
[03:21] <tseng> 0.1 is greatly improved WRT inotify
[03:22] <Mithrandir> tseng: 0.1! That MUST be stable! :P
[03:22] <seb128> fabbione: feel free to reassign bugs to gamin
[03:22] <tseng> Mithrandir: i said greatly improved, not stable :P
[03:22] <Mithrandir> tseng: "now crashes immediately rather than taking five seconds!" :P
[03:22] <tseng> Mithrandir: hah!
[03:22] <fabbione> seb128: ok, just that you know :)
[03:23] <seb128> fabbione: you got a lot of complain since yesterday ?
[03:23] <tseng> dsd and this other guy have done a ton of work on inotify + gamin now
[03:23] <tseng> the old one we had problems with was alot of stub code
[03:23] <tseng> missing features in the dnotify backend
[03:23] <fabbione> i did disable it exactly because we were pushing kernel crack :)
[03:23] <fabbione> seb128: it was uploadedd this morning :)
[03:23] <tseng> like allowing to fall back to polling
[03:23] <tseng> for things like /media
[03:23] <fabbione> seb128: difficult to get complains so fast
[03:24] <seb128> dunno, you are complaining about user bugging the kernel
[03:24] <seb128> some people are kick to rush into troubles :)
[03:24] <doko> pitti: pike FTBFS
[03:24] <doko> 7.4
[03:24] <fabbione> seb128: well they did a lot with the previous version.. it's not like i love to upload your packages MrSebrobot128 :)
[03:24] <seb128> fabbione: anyway let's see how it works, should be better now
[03:26] <seb128> one of the gnome-vfs guy is working to use inotify directly without using gamin apparently
[03:29] <elmo> what the hell?
[03:29] <elmo> some build install ntp-server into the chroots
[03:30] <elmo> gar, go nagios-plugins
[03:30] <jdub> daniels: STOOOOOOOOOOONER!
[03:30] <jdub> daniels: my X refuses to believe that i am typing!
[03:30] <ogra> jdub, get via voice....
[03:31] <jdub> ogra: interesting suggestion, but not a viable solution :)
[03:31] <pitti> doko: thanks, I have a look
[03:33] <pitti> doko: oh, that's still the old failure from the time when libpq-dev was still in universe
[03:34] <pitti> seb128: ++
[03:34] <pitti> seb128: do you know the progress of that?
[03:35] <seb128> gicmo was coding on it 2 days ago
[03:39] <elmo> and how the _hell_ did ntp in the chroot take out ntp in base
[03:41] <infinity> "take out", as in one in the base stopped running?
[03:41] <elmo>                 if [ "$1" = "install" ]  || dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 1:4.2.0a-10
[03:42] <elmo>                 then 
[03:42] <elmo>                         killall ntpd || true
[03:42] <elmo>                 fi
[03:42] <infinity> Either a bad init script, or ntpd's usual fragile "I fall over at the first sign of trouble".
[03:42] <elmo> rock on mister ntp maintainer
[03:42] <infinity> Oh, yay.
[03:42] <elmo> 'cos "" is probably lt anything
[03:42] <elmo> smurfix: DUDE
[03:42] <Mithrandir> killall is SUCH A GOOD IDEA to have in maintainer scripts.
[03:42] <infinity> killall in scripts is bad, mmkay.
[03:43] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: let's make it POLICY
[03:43] <elmo> is build-depending on daemons so you can do path checks in configure sane?
[03:43] <infinity> No.
[03:43] <infinity> I hardcode daemon locations.
[03:43] <elmo> what's the alternative tho?  hard-code?
[03:44] <elmo> ok
[03:44] <Mithrandir> why should it do path checks, really?
[03:44] <elmo> Mithrandir: variable paths between unices?
[03:44] <infinity> The only excuse to build-dep on a daemon is if you need it for testsuites (like that crazy libapache2-perl-apreq package)
[03:44] <Mithrandir> elmo: PATH is a run-time thing, I think they should just use that.
[03:44] <Mithrandir> elmo: unless you mean "look in weird non-PATH directories"
[03:44] <infinity> And we['ve put a lot of work into apache2 to make sure it behaves in chroots, specifically for that weirdass use case.
[03:45] <elmo> Mithrandir: oh, well, there is that
[03:45] <Mithrandir> in which case hardcoding is good, since we're like, a distribution, and supposed to know where we put our stuff.
[03:45] <elmo> oh,yay, nagios is no longer turbo's - there's a chance this bug I'm filing may actually get read
[03:46] <infinity> Turbo is my favouritest person ever.
[03:46] <Kamion> should be lt-nl not lt
[03:46] <infinity> I love that "roxen4's logrotate script kills MySQL every week" bug.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> infinity: nobody's used roxen4 for a week, so it'd take a bit of time for anybody to notice.

[03:47] <elmo> Kamion: aha, thanks forgot about those
[03:47] <elmo> how did roxen reach 4 anyway?  or is that just the number of users world-wide?
[03:47] <Kamion> haha
[03:48] <Mithrandir> elmo: they rolled a die, I guess.
[04:07] <JaneW> seb128: thanks for the breezygoal update :)
[04:08] <JaneW> seb128: is it complete complete, or is testing and tweaking still likely?
[04:08] <seb128> np ;)
[04:09] <seb128> some feedback doesn't hurt but it should be fine
[04:09] <JaneW> seb128: ok, well feel free to move it right to 'implemented' when you think it's 100% - that will earn you a 'gold star' ')
[04:10] <seb128> k :)
[04:10] <diego> ooh a gold star? nice
[04:11] <diego> are they shipped for free?
[04:11] <pitti> no, you got to earn them
[04:11] <Treenaks> diego: gold is cheap in .za, they have mines there ;)
[04:11] <diego> pitti: but say i were to earn a gold star, would it be shipped to me for free?
[04:12] <pitti> hehe
[04:26] <pitti> seb128: btw, rhythmbox still locks up with the new gstreamer
[04:27] <ogra> grrrr
[04:27] <ogra> ./TLS_AsciiConvertor.hpp:32:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
[04:27] <ogra> hmm, libx11-dev is a build dep....
[04:28] <seb128> pitti: a guy put a comment to say that's fixed witht he new alsa
[04:28] <seb128> pitti: and it works for me
[04:28] <pitti> seb128: new == 1.0.9?
[04:28] <pitti> or the rc3 we have ?
[04:28] <seb128> current ubuntu one
[04:28] <JaneW> pitti: yes it;s shipped for free, but since it's part of your earnings you would be taxed on it :P
[04:28] <seb128> ie: a guy added a comment like 2 hours ago saying it's fixed for him
[04:29] <seb128> and that works on my box today
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: oh neat, 1.0.9 was autosynced, upgrading now...
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: yay, works! thanks; I seemed to remember that this was a gstreamer issue, sorry for bothering
[04:32] <seb128> np
[04:32] <seb128> it has been pointed as a gstreamer0.8-alsa issue
[04:32] <seb128> since downgrading this one fixed the issue
[04:32] <seb128> but the new alsa fixes the issue, so maybe a version mismatch issue or something
[04:32] <seb128> anyways that works now
[04:37] <Lathiat> mjg59: so will canonical buy me a docking station for the purposes of testing? :)
[04:37] <mjg59> Lathiat: Haha. We'll see.
[04:38] <Lathiat> mjg59: cus i dont need a whole new laptop :) 
[04:38] <doko> jdub: perl time!
[04:38] <jdub> ;-0
[04:38] <jdub> ;-)
[04:38] <Lathiat> doko: are you going for like the highest uploader? :)
[04:39] <ogra> Lathiat, he's trying to cope with seb128 ;)
[04:39] <pitti> do"I kill the buildds"ko
[04:39] <Lathiat> hehe
[04:39] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[04:40] <mvo> mjg59: did you get the report about the compaq notebook I send some days ago?
[04:40] <mjg59> mvo: Yeah
[04:40] <mvo> mjg59: anything I can do? 
[04:40] <mjg59> There's a few things I need to catch up on first
[04:40] <mvo> sure
[04:43] <jdub> ok, so
[04:43] <jdub> current X, i can't type or hit ctrl-alt-del
[04:43] <jdub> known issue with the very latest upgrade?
[04:43] <\sh> message.data.address = (uint32)(&message);
[04:43] <\sh> hmmm....
[04:43] <\sh> this will give an error...
[04:48] <\sh> hmm
[04:49] <ogra> jdub, works here
[04:53] <mdz> pitti: I thought we already discussed postgresql?
[04:53] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[04:53] <mdz> morning
[04:53] <mvo> morning mdz
[04:53] <pitti> mdz: yes, I asked elmo to sync the archive to the new seeds
[04:53] <pitti> mdz: libpq-dev was still universe this morning
[04:53] <pitti> mdz: it's settled now, depending packages have built/are building
[04:53] <\sh> going home...then more
[04:54] <mdz> ok
[04:54] <pitti> mdz: btw, I am already hacking heavily on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioInfrastructure
[04:54] <pitti> mdz: but that is not yet formally approved
[04:54] <pitti> mdz: is this mdz or Kamion approval-ish?
[04:54] <mdz> pitti: I'll look over it now
[04:55] <mdz> pitti: has the reconsideration of polypaudio happened yet?
[04:55] <pitti> mdz: Erik de Castro wrote me a mail a few days ago where he said that he fixed some important bugs
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: right now we have gstreamer->alsa directly, but I think this might be too hot for breezy
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: so yes, I'd like to give polypaudio another shot soon
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: (we can't use esd, it sounds terrible with the new alsa)
[04:58] <bob2> pitti: with gstreamer or dmix doing the mixing?
[04:58] <sabdfl> whoohoo! once more into the sound breach, boys!
[04:58] <sabdfl> have we reviewed dmix for stability?
[04:58] <pitti> bob2: dmix, gstreamer doesn't mix (at least not by default)
[04:59] <pitti> sabdfl: breezy is using it right now :-)
[04:59] <sabdfl> iirc that was considered the best strategy long term, once dmix stabilised
[04:59] <bob2> pitti: pimpalicious
[04:59] <Lathiat> gst+dmix wfm (tm)
[04:59] <jdub> dmix is b00000rk ;)
[04:59] <pitti> sabdfl: it works fine on many devices, but it is said to break on many as well, that's why I'd like to use polypaudio for breez
[05:00] <sabdfl> ok
[05:00] <pitti> sabdfl: so we have dmix for non-esd/gstreamer applications that will work now (in contrast to hoary, where esd blocked the whole audio card)
[05:00] <pitti> but we still keep the esd interface and have polypaudio do the gstreamer mixing, which is (said to be) more robust
[05:01] <jdub> elmo: planet update please :)
[05:01] <wasabi_> Is dmix what I think it is?
[05:01] <wasabi_> Finally.
[05:01] <elmo> jdub: you so typoed the css didn't you?
[05:01] <jdub> elmo: i did not baz add the new planet.css :)
[05:02] <jdub> elmo: quick, record your laughter!
[05:02] <elmo> jdub: done (baz, not laughter)
[05:02] <pitti> wasabi_: it's mixing in the alsa library, without any sound daemon
[05:03] <jdub> elmo: gar. having withdrawal symptoms.
[05:03] <jdub> (thanks)
[05:12] <wasabi_> ssh could totally do with proper kerberos support. *growl*
[05:12] <wasabi_> or at least the ability to read keys from ldap
[05:12] <scorpix> when will the next ubuntu colony will release?
[05:13] <Kamion> scorpix: when it's ready
[05:13] <Kamion> seriously
[05:13] <scorpix> there's no roadmap for it?
[05:13] <Kamion> no, colonies are "when it works well enough to release"
[05:13] <wasabi_> we don't need roads where we're going.
[05:14] <Kamion> scorpix: it's almost certainly overdue, but on the other hand the dailies haven't actually been sufficiently bug-free to release for some time
[05:14] <Netsnipe> hey everyone
[05:15] <scorpix> so, is breezy will come with selinux/pax/exec-shield by default? or we'll have to download a hardened kernel?
[05:15] <pitti> scorpix: we might get selinux, but not pax/ES by default
[05:15] <scorpix> nice
[05:16] <pitti> ajmitch: btw, any news wrt the selinux packages?
[05:16] <scorpix> more derotification will be good also ;)
[05:17] <scorpix> *derootification
[05:17] <pitti> scorpix: what in particular?
[05:17] <pitti> scorpix: X.org is a really tough one :-)
[05:17] <Netsnipe> I need some opinions on how to fix Debian #311109: gnome-applets: SUID handling via debconf for cpufreq-applet
[05:17] <elmo> pitti: wimp
[05:18] <pitti> elmo: sudo sed -i 's/root/nobody/' /etc/passwd
[05:18] <Netsnipe> since the debconf stuff hasn't been ported from the stand alone package to the 2.10 gnome-applets package either
[05:18] <Netsnipe> two questions concerning ubuntu policy
[05:18] <Netsnipe> 1. how sensitive are you guys to SUID bits for hardware controlling programs
[05:18] <elmo> pitti: ok, running that on *.ubuntu.com.  thanks for the tip dude!!
[05:18] <pitti> elmo: see? it's easy :-)
[05:18] <Netsnipe> 2. and should a standard desktop install raise any debconf questions to begin with.
[05:19] <thom> elmo: about as good an idea as removing libnss-db... ;-)
[05:19] <pitti> Netsnipe: Ubuntu policy mandates that (2) doesn't happen
[05:19] <\sh> re
[05:19] <pitti> Netsnipe: (1): if it is small and auditable, really justified, and gets a review, that's considerable
[05:20] <elmo> thom: ouch
[05:21] <pitti> scorpix: seriously, do you have a good target for derooting?
[05:21] <Netsnipe> pitti: ok. I'm setting the priority=low (seb128 and np237 from #gnome-debian have agreed on that)
[05:21] <thom> elmo: *g*
[05:21] <pitti> scorpix: I still have unix_chppwd, hplip, and arpwatch on my list
[05:21] <Netsnipe> now the question that remains is...what should the default be?
[05:21] <Netsnipe> It should just work (TM) and default the cpufreq selection tool to SUID 
[05:21] <pitti> Netsnipe: we have priority high as default, so even normal would work (for Ubuntu, that is)
[05:22] <pitti> Netsnipe: if it doesn't work without setuid, then the question is rather unnecessary, or does it?
[05:22] <Netsnipe> or be paranoid, disable it, and bury the fact you have to turn it on for the applet to be able to change CPU speeds on the fly in the README
[05:22] <scorpix> pitti: im trying to remember how to get the suid programs
[05:22] <Netsnipe> that's what duck has done right now (but without the debconf question)
[05:22] <Netsnipe> pitti: you need SUID
[05:22] <Netsnipe> pitti: otherwise you can't do jack to sysfs
[05:22] <Netsnipe> s/to/in/
[05:23] <Netsnipe> pitti: the applet still works if the selector isn't SUID. it just displays the frequency
[05:23] <Netsnipe> and doesn't let you set it
[05:24] <pitti> Netsnipe: ah, so the wrapper would basically do the equivalent of "echo speed > /sys/.../frequency"?
[05:24] <Netsnipe> pitti: yep.
[05:24] <pitti> Netsnipe: then it should be 4751 and restricted to a "desktop" group
[05:24] <ogra> Netsnipe, cant you do that through dbus/hal ? 
[05:24] <pitti> ogra: how so?
[05:24] <pitti> ogra: you still need a setuid wrapper for the call
[05:25] <Netsnipe> ogra: cpufreq is still sysfs as far as I know
[05:25] <ogra> 0.5.0 should be capable with the acpi patches from richard huges... it would need a little hack...
[05:25] <pitti> Netsnipe: erm, to get me right, the only thing that is setuid is the echo speed thing, nothing more, right?
[05:25] <scorpix> pitti: add cups to your list if possible :)
[05:25] <pitti> scorpix: huh, that happened in warty
[05:25] <pitti> scorpix: that was one of the most important things to do since cups is complex and had many vulns 
[05:25] <ogra> pitti, it should not be different to the dmidecode integration....
[05:26] <pitti> ogra: right, but that required a suid wrapper, too
[05:26] <scorpix> pitti: i get /etc/cups/ as setuid !!
[05:26] <Netsnipe> pitti: yes
[05:26] <pitti> scorpix: www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DerootificationStatus
[05:26] <ogra> pitti, yes, but behind hal, tightly tied to the hal group... which seems somewhat safer
[05:27] <pitti> ogra: that doesn't work, since the user has to change it. dmidecode does not need to be parameterized by the user
[05:28] <pitti> scorpix: drwxrwsr-t  4 cupsys lpadmin 544 2005-05-30 09:49 /etc/cups/
[05:28] <pitti> scorpix: ^ what's wrong about that?
[05:28] <scorpix> pitti: i forget that it should be /etc/bin/***, my fault
[05:28] <pitti> Netsnipe: it should be a group like "video"; video isn't meant for that, but the group should have the same privilege level
[05:29] <ogra> pitti, afaik the acpi patches from richard are capable of doing two way communication.... i just packaged gnome-power, it uses send and recieve on the dbus.... and we will need something similar to the above to handle the pmi calls from power-manager
[05:29] <Netsnipe> pitti: I'm not going to hack the kernel just to change the perms on a sysfs node
[05:29] <pitti> ogra: is setting the property restricted in any way?
[05:29] <Netsnipe> the question really boils down to
[05:30] <zyga_> hello
[05:30] <Netsnipe> de we default to SUID and have the applet Just Work (TM) as advertised
[05:30] <Netsnipe> or be paranoid and leave it disabled and hope the user reads the README
[05:30] <zyga_> what is the recomended filesystem for / ext3 or ext2?
[05:30] <Netsnipe> and is brave enough to run dpkg-statoverride him/herself
[05:30] <ogra> pitti, i'm not sure... but what i'm saying is that we have to implement something similar anyway.... 
[05:31] <pitti> phone
[05:31] <ogra> Netsnipe, we dont do such things to our users ;) (running things like dpkg-statoverride)
[05:32] <bob2> zyga_: #ubuntu, but ext3.
[05:32] <ogra> Netsnipe, so the solution should follow the "just works" approach
[05:32] <Netsnipe> ogra: but that goes against my Debian instinct
[05:32] <Netsnipe> enabling SUID root without asking the user
[05:32] <Netsnipe> seems to be against tradition
[05:32] <wasabi_> I guess that's why we aren't Debian.
[05:33] <ogra> Netsnipe, if it can be wrapped in a safe way, its ok...
[05:33] <Netsnipe> oh well
[05:33] <Netsnipe> it's not as if cpufreq-selector is listening on any sockets
[05:34] <ogra> no, bu the things it does should be done through hal, thats what its for....
[05:36] <pitti> back
[05:36] <Lathiat> Netsnipe: ping doesnt tell me its setuid root, nor does passwd. :)
[05:37] <pitti> ogra: the problem is: if you call the wrapper directly, then you can restrict it to a group; if you allow calling through hal, then *everybody* can change the cpu frequency, which is not desirable
[05:37] <pitti> ogra: the hal approach worked fine for "output-only" things like dmidecode, but not for things that need input from users
[05:38] <ogra> pitti, but doesnt "Hardware Abstraction Layer" somehow imply that you do interaction to your hardware through it ? :)
[05:38] <pitti> ogra: right, that was asked for very often, but you open a can of worms wrt authentication
[05:39] <ogra> pitti, but some day it has to get implemented...
[05:39] <pitti> I'm not a big friend of hal doing hardware settings...
[05:39] <ogra> else this thing is nice, but fails its target....
[05:39] <wasabi_> I am. Because every other OS does it. And they do it fine. =)
[05:39] <scorpix> pitti: will initng or cinit be in breezy?
[05:39] <pitti> ogra: depends on how you define its goal
[05:40] <ogra> pitti, "Hardware abstraction Layer" ;)
[05:40] <pitti> ogra: if the goal is to provide an abstracted interface for getting hardware information and hotplug events, then hal works just fine :-)
[05:40] <wasabi_> And interacting with, i'd hope. ;)
[05:40] <Netsnipe> ogra: I've got the ITP on gnome-power-manager in Debian
[05:40] <pitti> ogra: it's not "Hardware mangling layer" :-)
[05:40] <ogra> pitti, a layer has two surfaces ;)
[05:40] <Netsnipe> ogra: we should swap IM details = )
[05:41] <pitti> scorpix: no idea
[05:41] <Netsnipe> ogra: it's stable/useful enough for distribution now? I've put it on hold until Sarge was out
[05:41] <Kamion> scorpix: erm, setgid directories != privilege elevation
[05:41] <Kamion> ogra: dpkg-statoverride is a lot better than how it used to work. :)
[05:41] <ogra> Netsnipe, the backend is missing.... it looks nice and runs stable
[05:42] <wasabi_> I'd go a step furthur and replace gnome-system-tools' backend with HAL.
[05:42] <wasabi_> Well, the network part of it. ;0
[05:42] <Netsnipe> ogra: the backend is missing?
[05:42] <Netsnipe> ogra: so it does nothing?  = P
[05:42] <ogra> Netsnipe, exactly :)
[05:42] <pitti> yay, a shiny GUI
[05:42] <ogra> Netsnipe, and if it would do something i guess it would be very redhat-ish
[05:43] <ogra> Netsnipe, which i doubt is compatible to the way we do powermanagement in ubuntu....
[05:45] <wasabi_> Crazy. When I click on a mms:// link in Epiphany, totem launches.
[05:45] <wasabi_> And quickly says no handler installed to handle it.
[06:05] <jbailey> Mmm..  Segfatuls, sweet sweet segfaults.
[06:17] <\sh> looks like i will get all the showstoppers today
[06:18] <\sh> libpq-dev 
[06:19] <\sh> is not going to be installed
[06:19] <ogra> \sh, its not better on my side....
[06:20] <ogra> unicon breaks with an Xlib.h not found.....
[06:20] <ogra> tyvis cant find libclutils.a
[06:21] <Kamion> Yay, now X just totally hangs my console on a fresh breezy install
[06:22] <ogra> heh.... yes, X is always good for fun....
[06:23] <ogra> Kamion, i had a neon green frame on my desktop display for the last week.... no keyboard input accepted.... but ssh worked fine... 
[06:23] <Kamion> I wouldn't care if I could actually release Colony CDs
[06:26] <zyga_> chattr man page says that 'c', 's' and 'u' are not implemented - could anyone kernel savvy confirm this?
[06:26] <zyga_> I'm hacking chattr
[06:47] <Netsnipe> morning jdub 
[06:47] <Netsnipe> doh. reconnect
[06:51] <mdz> elmo: does your sync tool allow me to easily get a list of the packages which are out of date with respect to merging?
[06:53] <elmo> mdz: beyond the lorraine needs merged output?
[06:53] <elmo> mdz: in any event 'josie -an' in ~/scratch/1 will give you even more verboseness
[06:53] <elmo> (yes, the path stuff is ueber lame)
[06:54] <mdz> elmo: I don't know lorraine
[06:54] <elmo> mdz: it's what mom deals with
[06:54] <elmo> /srv/ftp.n-n-y.com/www/lorraine/
[06:55] <mdz> elmo: so needs-merged reflects everything which is currently out of date, and not just the ones which are new since the last run, right?
[06:55] <elmo> mdz: right
[06:55] <elmo> and it's run in cron.daily
[06:56] <elmo> so it's everything and up-to-date
[06:57] <mdz> ok, that's exactly what I wanted then, thanks
[07:00] <jdub> no janew?
[07:05] <ogra> jdub, she wanted to try to be back for CC
[07:16] <mdz> Kamion: ISTR this coming up before, but I don't remember the outcome...---passphrase-fd for openssh?
[07:20] <mdke> what language is this? https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstalandoPlacaWirelessComNdiswrapper
[07:22] <mdke> pt?
[07:28] <pitti> lamont__: do you know why qt-x11-free 3:3.3.4-1ubuntu5 is not attempted to be built?
[07:49] <lamont__> pitti: libs/qt-x11-free_3:3.3.4-1ubuntu5: Dep-Wait by buildd+rothera [optional:out-of-date] 
[07:49] <lamont__>   Dependencies: libmysqlclient-dev
[07:49] <lamont__> kicking
[07:50] <pitti> lamont__: ah, thanks; is there a similar problem with pike-7.{2,4,6}?
[07:50] <lamont__> iz big hammer
[07:53] <pitti> lamont__: iz nice from you :)
[07:53] <mwh_> hi, im trying to find out what goes wrong when im inserting my usb, flash card reader, it does not get mounted automatically and shown, I want to find out what is wrong so I can write a bugreport, maybe some of you can help me
[07:53] <mwh_> it normally works
[07:53] <mwh_> I use ubuntu hoary
[07:54] <mwh_> dmesg shows that the kernel finds the flash reader
[07:54] <mwh_> and I can manually mount it
[07:54] <mwh_> so I guess it might be higher in the software stack
[07:54] <mdz> pitti: have we disabled the use of /etc/fstab for cdroms yet, so as to use pmount instead?
[07:54] <mwh_> maybe some service which needs to be restarted
[07:55] <mwh_> btw the device was pluged in during boot
[07:55] <mwh_> maybe thats the cause I have to test that
[07:55] <mdz> mwh_: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[07:55] <mwh_> anyways, anyone of you heard of something similar to this
[07:55] <pitti> mdz: no, we didn't disable it
[07:55] <mwh_> mdz: thanks
[07:55] <pitti> mdz: by keeping it in fstab, you see icons in the computer place even if there is no CD inserted
[07:56] <pitti> mdz: which is not a big deal, though
[07:56] <lsuactiafner> thing is usb is sdb for ppl with 1 sata disk
[07:56] <mdz> pitti: does the icon provide some functionality?
[07:56] <lsuactiafner> i have two.. so my usb is sdc.. can be problematic
[07:57] <lsuactiafner> and some disks have partitions that start on sdc2 not sdc1 as expected.
[07:57] <pitti> mdz: hmm, not really
[07:57] <ogra> mdz, you could manually mount with a doubleclick if g-v-m fails... 
[07:58] <pitti> mdz: ^ well, yes
[07:58] <lsuactiafner> or just make an alias.. alias usb='mount -t auto /dev/sdc /mnt/Usb'
[07:58] <ogra> but given that it doesnt fail *shrug*
[07:59] <pitti> lsuactiafner: that needs root, please rather use pmount for removable devices
[07:59] <pitti> mdz: does fstab hurt?
[08:00] <ogra> pitti, it desnt react dynamically if yo add a nem CD-Rom or writer..... hal/g-v-m/pmount does :)
[08:00] <ogra> man.... what am i typing...
[08:00] <mwh_> mdz: great guide, ill fill a bugreport imediately
[08:01] <pitti> ogra: oh, if you just add one, you will get a new icon if you insert a CD
[08:01] <ogra> pitti, yeps, but fstab still has old entrys if you remove one for example...
[08:02] <pitti> ogra: right
[08:02] <ogra> imagine a usb CD-ROM/Writer plugged into a laptop at install time...
[08:02] <pitti> I'm not opposed to dropping the fstab stuff
[08:02] <pitti> however, that's a Kamion thing since the installer creates the fstab
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: it relies on certain paths on disk, can't adjust for hardware changes, etc.
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: the less configuration we do in the installer, and the more we adapt on the fly, the better I think
[08:09] <pitti> mdz: right
[08:09] <pitti> mdz: I think it is easy for Kamion to just disable that part in the insaller
[08:09] <Lathiat> has anyone noticed/fixed the bug where if you have a usb hard drive plugged in during install it puts /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1 in fstab?
[08:10] <mdz> pitti: yes, and early so that we get plenty of feedback
[08:10] <mdz> pitti: can you follow up with him so that it gets done?
[08:10] <pitti> mdz: sure
[08:10] <mdz> Lathiat: if you're installing to the USB hard disk, that isn't supported yet
[08:10] <Lathiat> mdz: nah not installing to it
[08:10] <Lathiat> it was just plugged in at the time
[08:10] <mdz> Lathiat: so you did manual partitioning and asked that it be mounted?
[08:10] <Lathiat> didnt set it up or anything
[08:10] <Lathiat> mdz: no, it just stuck it in fstab for me
[08:11] <Lathiat> without touching it
[08:11] <Lathiat> and it puts sda instead of sda1
[08:11] <mdz> ubuntu 5.04 doesn't do that
[08:11] <Lathiat> yes it does
[08:11] <Lathiat> for me, at least
[08:12] <mdz> Lathiat: please show me the fstab entry
[08:12] <Lathiat> humm
[08:12] <Lathiat> i'll have to do an install
[08:12] <Lathiat> all i can remember is it was along the lines of /dev/sda /media/usb0 ext3 defaults 0 0 right now
[08:12] <Lathiat> the first 2 i remember correctly, not sure about the rest
[08:13] <Lathiat> i'll try it out and let you know if you want
[08:30] <mantiena> Hi all
[08:30] <mantiena> Kamion: thanks for good working casper-automount ;)
[08:42] <allee> mjg59: ping?
[08:42] <mjg59> allee: Hi
[08:43] <allee> mjg59: Not all laptops here run (k)ubuntu yet ...
[08:43] <mjg59> allee: What's the issue?
[08:43] <allee> mjg59:  are debian keycodes reports useful too?
[08:43] <mjg59> All keycodes are useful
[08:43] <mjg59> :)
[08:44] <allee> mjg59: I tried 4 external USB keyboard today.  Looks like the kernel map them already to useful keycodes
[08:45] <allee> mjg59: so support for them will be easy ;)
[08:45] <allee> mjg59: keycodes have you looks at, e.g., lineak?  It's config file contains lots of keycode definitions
[08:46] <mjg59> Yeah, I've checked that. I'm concentrating mostly on laptops at the moment, since it's a lot easier to work that out
[08:46] <mjg59> The problem with external keyboards is that there's no way to tell if a PS/2 keyboard is a Microsoft or a Logitech, and they use different mappings
[08:47] <allee> mjg59: yeap.  But external usb should be easy (if one can define 160 keycodes even is keyboard has on 105)
[08:47] <elmo> why on EARTH didn't they add keyboard type to the USB keyboard stuff?
[08:48] <Mithrandir> elmo: because they wanted sun to look good, or something.
[08:48] <mjg59> allee: Yeah, we can tell what sort of USB keyboard is in use, but we still need to have a static table of mappings in some cases
[08:48] <allee> elmo: for me it looks like logical keys emit same keycodes.  So AFAI can see one can use one mapping for 'all' external keyboards
[08:51] <allee> mjg59: I plan to try a  pc10* + huge-usb-extern map.   AFAIU yet.  This should work  (+ a little model-specific map)
[08:51] <mjg59> allee: Yeah, that sounds good
[08:53] <allee> mjg59: okay.  looks like nothing obvious against my plan.  I go for it.   Thx
[08:56] <hunger> any estimation on when wine will be installable again in breezy?
[08:56] <Treenaks> hunger: when it's fixed? 8)
[08:57] <ogra> hunger, not after october ;)
[08:57] <hunger> Treenaks: Ok. so it is a known issue?
[08:57] <Treenaks> hunger: I don't know :)
[08:57] <hunger> I do not need to write a bugreport then;-)
[09:11] <lupusbe> daniels X server won't start after upgrading to latest packages it complains about not finding fixed fonts
[09:11] <lupusbe> breezy
[09:12] <Kamion> mantiena: cool
[09:12] <Nafallo> lupusbe: change your fontpaths in xorg.conf to /usr/share/X11/fonts/*
[09:13] <chol> hiya, do you know if there's a problem using a hpux remote font server with ubunto/xorg?
[09:15] <lupusbe> Nafallo k thx but is the program that updates xorg.conf fixed for this?
[09:15] <chol> or perhaps if it doesn't like "tcp/localhost:port" as opposed to tcp/remote_ip which works
[09:15] <lupusbe> or should I open a bug report :)
[09:17] <Nafallo> lupusbe: dunno. ask daniels ;-).
[09:18] <lupusbe> :)
[09:19] <chol> fslsfonts works with localhost:port to hpux server but xset +fp doesn't...
[09:25] <dholbach> hi
[09:26] <chol> xfree on debian works aswell
[09:40] <lupusbe> the paths point to /usr/share/X11/fonts/* but there is no fonts.dir file in the directories
[09:42] <syndicate> This might be a long shot, but where is Scsi_Host_Template defined in the kernel headers?
[09:43] <syndicate> I'm trying to compile the UNH-iSCSI initiator under hoary
[09:43] <chol> syndicate, grep -r is your friend :)
[09:43] <syndicate> yeah, it's not there
[09:45] <zul> syndicate: try include/scsi/scsi_host.h
[09:45] <chol> ah.. well i've had alot of problems building fiber channel software with 2.6 kernels
[09:47] <syndicate> ahh well, that didn't work either
[09:47] <syndicate> I guess I'll pester the UNH people :D
[09:48] <lupusbe> can someone tell me how I can regenerate fonts.dir files
[09:48] <lupusbe> or what is wrong :)
[09:48] <chol> lupusbe, mkfontdir, ttmkfdir, mkfontscale, fc-cache
[09:50] <lupusbe> isn't there a deb package that I can run or something :)
[09:50] <lupusbe> dpkg-reconfigure  something like that
[09:51] <chol> lupusbe, try :) update-fonts-*
[09:51] <Kamion> dpkg-reconfigure is *only* for debconf
[09:51] <Kamion> it's not a catch-all do-everything. :)
[09:51] <chol> lupusbe, but they for sure depends on some other config
[09:51] <lupusbe> :)
[09:56] <shaya> hmm
[09:56] <shaya> new gnome-menu/panel got rid of crossover's windows menu
[09:56] <Lathiat> menu-xdg might help
[09:57] <shaya> root@dent:/usr/share/doc/gnome-menus # dpkg --status menu-xdg |grep Status
[09:57] <shaya> Status: install ok installed
[09:58] <chol> lupusbe, what is it that doesn't work?
[09:59] <chol> lupusbe, for adding truetype fonts, put them in ~/.fonts, run ttmkfdir in that dir, and then run fc-cache to update
[10:02] <lupusbe> chol it says that it can't find the default font
[10:02] <lupusbe> fixed 
[10:03] <chol> lupusbe, oh.. i know that one.. run into it a few times
[10:04] <chol> but i have to figure out how to fix it every time...
[10:06] <chol> lupusbe, try running fc-cache -f
[10:07] <chol> as root then, could take a while to finish
[10:07] <mdke> thesaltydog, wela
[10:09] <thesaltydog> cia matt
[10:09] <mdke> how's things?
[10:10] <thesaltydog> mdke, just back from work. Too much..
[10:10] <pitti> seb128: do you know whether it's possible to tell gnome-volume-control to show a particular device initially?
[10:11] <thesaltydog> mdke, I have seen that the doc team is not very active on the list in wiki..
[10:12] <seb128> pitti: there is a /apps/gnome-volume-control/active-element gconf key, maybe with that?
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: nobody will beat me up if I change that in g-v-m at runtime?
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: I hoped for some command line option, but there doesn't seem to be a (documented) one
[10:13] <seb128> over user, or by asking?
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: the idea is: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/audio.png
[10:14] <seb128> a sec
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: i. e. I plugin my headset
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: I get the upper dialog (with the "Configure..." button, "Einstellungen" in German)
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: this button spawns g-volume-control
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: but it would make sense to select the device just plugged in, not the default device
[10:15] <shaya> seb128:     - use the current version of gtkhtml, thanks Daniel. (hmph)
[10:15] <seb128> what?
[10:15] <ska-fan> Urgh, yes no answers
[10:15] <shaya> my name isn't daniel!
[10:17] <seb128> shaya: dholbach (his name is Daniel) pinged me on IRC about this before I upload
[10:17] <dholbach> shaya: shortly before you reported the bug, i tried to upload a fixed version - my name is daniel :)
[10:17] <seb128> I've read the bug after uploading
[10:17] <seb128> shaya: thanks anyway :)
[10:18] <shaya> ah
[10:18] <seb128> pitti: /j #gstreamer please
[10:18] <shaya> oh well
[10:18] <shaya> actually, before I do that
[10:18] <shaya> menu aint working :)
[10:18] <allee> mjg59: ping
[10:18] <shaya> new panel/menu packages got rid of crossover menu
[10:19] <shaya> also no run menu right now
[10:19] <shaya> run menu I dont know if by choice
[10:19] <shaya> but I doubt the crossover menu issue is
[10:19] <shaya> and now I go off and hide
[10:27] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, good evening. I have a question.
[10:27] <dholbac1> thesaltydog: fire away
[10:27] <dholbac1> hi :)
[10:28] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, I have just seen your remarks on the package. Thanks. The question:
[10:28] <seb128> shaya: what do you mean about crossover?
[10:28] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, is concerning the changelog. BUM is noe 1.2.7 and I would like to include all the preceedings changelogs..
[10:29] <dholbac1> those are upstream changes?
[10:29] <dholbac1> you can have them in ./ChangeLog
[10:29] <thesaltydog> no, this is the very first upstream version, but it is 1.2.7 from development and distribution
[10:29] <dholbac1> if 1.2.7 is the first ubuntu revision, the initial package, it should be there
[10:29] <dholbac1> yeah
[10:29] <dholbac1> one 1.2.7 entry in debian/changelog
[10:30] <dholbac1> but the "upstream history" in ./ChangeLog
[10:30] <thesaltydog> ./Changelog should be a text file in which dir?
[10:30] <dholbac1> one will end up in /usr/share/doc/bum/changelog.gz and the other in /usr/share/doc/bum/changelog.Debian.gz
[10:30] <dholbac1> directly in the source tree
[10:30] <thesaltydog> ok
[10:31] <thesaltydog> sorry but I am a developer, not a packager!!
[10:31] <dholbac1> that's where you document source changes
[10:31] <Kamion> thesaltydog: might be better to work with a packager, then
[10:31] <dholbac1> yeah... you should have a changelog for your project as well :)
[10:31] <Kamion> and have them release 1.2.7-1, etc.
[10:32] <thesaltydog> Kamion, I have asked for... but I am still waiting so I have decided to study.:-(
[10:32] <dholbac1> we're short on maintainers, thesaltydog - everybody has to be patient atm
[10:33] <shaya> seb128: crossover office
[10:33] <shaya> wine
[10:33] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, I am patient. In the meanwhile I am trying to help myself..
[10:33] <dholbac1> thesaltydog: that's good
[10:33] <shaya> they create their own menu that windows apps that create "program" entries go into
[10:33] <shaya> with new gnome stuff it disappeared
[10:33] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, so don't you mind if in the next days I will bother you more?
[10:33] <seb128> so that needs to be fixed
[10:34] <shaya> well it just disappeared in latest upload
[10:34] <shaya> dont know what would have changed to get rid of user menu entries
[10:34] <dholbac1> thesaltydog: just add a comment on MOTUNewPackages, so people will know you cleared those issues
[10:34] <thesaltydog> dholbac1, I'm going to fix right now. Thanks a lot.
[10:35] <dholbach> thesaltydog: de rien
[10:35] <thesaltydog> ciao to all
[10:35] <shaya> seb128: is it possible that before .gnome/apps was being pulled in, but not anymore?
[10:36] <shaya> hmm, ~/.menu that is
[10:37] <lupusbe> someone with breezy here?
[10:37] <seb128> would be weird
[10:37] <shaya> yes
[10:37] <shaya> I would think most people here have breezy
[10:37] <lupusbe> shaya can you do cat /usr/bin/mkfontdir
[10:37] <lupusbe> and give me the output
[10:38] <louie> lupusbe: at least here, that still points at /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale
[10:38] <lupusbe> idd
[10:38] <lupusbe> this is wrong
[10:38] <torkel> lupusbe: change it to /usr/bin/mkfontscale
[10:38] <lupusbe> yeah I know
[10:39] <lupusbe> I wonder if this is why fonts.dir is missing
[10:39] <thesaltydog> dholbach, I forgot an issue...
[10:39] <lupusbe> since mkfondir was broken when installing the fonts I think
[10:40] <torkel> lupusbe: probably yes
[10:40] <dholbach> thesaltydog: which one?
[10:40] <lupusbe> I'll open a bug report
[10:40] <lupusbe> or is someone already filling it in? :)
[10:40] <thesaltydog> dholbach, su-to-root is in the menu file for kde.. the same reason for which I need postins (update-menus)
[10:40] <\sh> grmpf
[10:41] <dholbach> but the postinst i looked at didnt do anything
[10:41] <\sh> anybody there who knows something about stdint.h magic? especially about __INT64_C(...) Macro?
[10:41] <shaya> lupusbe: I'm not running breezy X
[10:41] <shaya> it dont work for me
[10:41] <shaya> always gives me cant find fixed font
[10:41] <thesaltydog> mmhh. I will check, but I have bum in the "debian" menu installed after an upodate-menus
[10:42] <shaya> even when changed the menus
[10:42] <lupusbe> shaya yeah I'm debugging the problem a little bit ;)
[10:42] <mdke> shaya, me too
[10:42] <dholbach> thesaltydog: unfortunately i have no real idea about menu/debian-menu entries, Amaranth can surely help you there
[10:42] <thesaltydog> if I remove the menu file, the non-Gnome user should run the program from CLI..
[10:42] <shaya> thesaltydog: my debian menu works fine
[10:42] <lupusbe> can someone tell me of which deb package mkfontscale is
[10:42] <shaya> lost my other non gnome menus though
[10:43] <lupusbe> I'm in windows at the moment so I can't check :)
[10:43] <thesaltydog> shaya, you mean bum in the debian menu?
[10:43] <Amaranth> thesaltydog: what's up?
[10:43] <shaya> bum?
[10:43] <Amaranth> what menu do you want bum to go into?
[10:43] <dholbach> lupusbe: packages.ubuntu.com should know :)
[10:44] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, in order to have a menu entry for KDE, do I need to put a menu file in the package?
[10:44] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, and run update-menus?
[10:44] <Amaranth> thesaltydog: In order to have a menu for KDE, GNOME, or KDE you need to put a menu file in the package.
[10:44] <mantiena> Kamion: still online ? my network connection is not so good :(
[10:44] <lupusbe> thx dholbach
[10:45] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, Ok. That was my issue. And that is why there is a postins in my package. Correct?
[10:45] <Amaranth> say what?
[10:45] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, in the postins I run update-menus
[10:45] <Amaranth> you don't need to do that
[10:46] <Amaranth> just make sure your .desktop file gets into /usr/share/applications/
[10:46] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, should it be enough to put the menu file in /usr/lib/menu?
[10:46] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, yes, the .desktop file is in the right place.
[10:46] <Amaranth> if it's in /usr/share/applications you should be done
[10:47] <Amaranth> /usr/lib/menu is only for the 'Debian' menu
[10:47] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, sorry, but /usr/share/applications is not only for gnome?
[10:47] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, I don't know kubuntu, does it work the same for menus?
[10:47] <Amaranth> no, /usr/share/applications is for any freedesktop.org complient menu system
[10:47] <Amaranth> which in Ubuntu is KDE, GNOME, and XFCE
[10:48] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, ok. So i can get rid of the menu file in /usr/lib/menu?
[10:48] <Amaranth> actually, you probably want to put one there and run update-menus too, sorry
[10:48] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, :-) ... I was saying just that since 15 minutes...
[10:49] <Amaranth> you want one in /usr/share/applications and one in /usr/lib/menu
[10:49] <Amaranth> yeah
[10:49] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, yes. I did that way.. And run update-menus in postins.
[10:49] <Amaranth> you should be good then
[10:50] <thesaltydog> Amaranth, thanks a lot! Ciao..
[10:52] <dholbach> brb
[10:53] <Kamion> mantiena: not really, too busy packing
[10:54] <mantiena> Kamion: ok, will talk with you when you will have time to talk ;)
[10:58] <lupus1010> w00t breezy X works again :D
[11:04] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, any ETA for hct in breezy?
[11:05] <sabdfl> elmo: ping
[11:06] <elmo> sabdfl: aha, yay
[11:06] <sabdfl> hi, what's up?
[11:07] <mdz> wasabi: java-main.txt updated
[11:08] <mvo> ping seb128 
[11:09] <seb128> mvo: pong
[11:09] <mvo> seb128: is vte upstream more reposonsive these days? 
[11:09] <seb128> no
[11:09] <seb128> there is no upstream virtually
[11:09] <seb128> why?
[11:10] <allee> daniels: where is the translation in xkb/symbol/* of:  key (like <i65>) to keycode (of xev) defined?  Once I knew :(
[11:10] <mvo> bad :/
[11:10] <mvo> I have a patch to enable forkpty() in the python bindings
[11:10] <seb128> put it on bugzilla.gnome.org
[11:10] <seb128> some people review patches
[11:10] <seb128> I can try to ping one guy to get it reviewed
[11:10] <mantiena> mvo: Hi, when you upload update-manager to debian ?
[11:10] <mvo> and I would like to add a flag that forkpty() not closes all fds on the fork but leave some open
[11:11] <mvo> mantiena: it needs a updated python-apt in debian
[11:11] <hunger> harden-clients will remove ubuntu-base and ubuntu-standard... What is telnet needed for there anyway?
[11:11] <mvo> seb128: the python bit is already in gnome bugzilla (including a patch)
[11:11] <mvo> seb128: I had hoped to get feedback about the "dont-close-all-fds" thing :/
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: oh, feedback ... don't expect on that
[11:12] <mantiena> mvo: it's too hard to make to work update-manage with pyhton from debian sid ?
[11:13] <mvo> mantiena: it's possible but a PITA because sids python-apt does not know about the depcache (I added that recently). it's a matter of moving the python-apt from experimental into sid, should happen pretty soon I guess. than it's not hard to port it (it uses some python2.4 stuff, but that shouldn't be a big deal)
[11:13] <mvo> seb128: :(
[11:16] <mantiena> mvo: hehe, maybe you could upload update-manager to experimental ?
[11:16] <mvo> mantiena: actually not a bad idea :)
[11:16] <mantiena> mvo: ;)
[11:25] <mantiena> mvo: so, why not to make this idea real ?
[11:26] <dholbach> elmo: thanks
[11:26] <mvo> mantiena: it still leaves the "backport it to python2.3" problem
[11:27] <seb128> mvo: why doing that?
[11:28] <mvo> seb128: why doing what? not closing all fds?
[11:28] <seb128> no, backporting
[11:28] <seb128> you'll not get it for sarge now
[11:28] <seb128> no need to bother
[11:29] <mvo> yes, I assume debian will get python2.4 as default pretty quick
[11:29] <Amaranth> i assume sid is going to break worse than breezy in the next couple weeks
[11:30] <mvo> even worse :P ?
[11:30] <Amaranth> so it won't matter anyway
[11:30] <Amaranth> :)
[11:30] <ogra> Amaranth, why ? they have our patches ;)
[11:30] <ogra> so they can have it quicker/easier if they want....
[11:32] <Amaranth> you're assuming they'll a) accept all of those packages and b) get things moving as fast as you did
[11:32] <Amaranth> err, patches
[11:32] <Amaranth> not packages
[11:32] <ogra> its their choice.... but they could if they wanted ;)
[11:34] <wasabi_> Oh intersting
[11:34] <wasabi_> Ooo has a UNO bridge for .Net?
[11:34] <ogra> but they dont have a dholbach to fix their universe indeed ;) so it will take longer for sure
[11:34] <dholbach> ogra: and a charles and an herve and and and and and
[11:35] <wasabi_> So ya'll need to give Eclipse a spin.
[11:35] <wasabi_> (and help me with it of course!)
[11:37] <wasabi_> apt-get install eclipse-jdt
[11:37] <wasabi_> !!!
[11:38] <thesaltydog> dholbach, almost done.. but I have a warning in genchanges and an error in lintian..
[11:38] <ogra> error is bad.... 
[11:38] <ogra> hi thesaltydog 
[11:39] <thesaltydog> ogra, ciao oliver
[11:39] <thesaltydog> ogra, E: bum_1.2.7-0ubuntu1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
[11:39] <dholbach> you're still on hoary?
[11:40] <thesaltydog> yep
[11:40] <dholbach> then ignore it
[11:40] <ogra> thesaltydog, you can ognore that
[11:40] <thesaltydog> ok. now genchanges
[11:40] <ogra> ignore even
[11:40] <thesaltydog> dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field  in input data in package's section of control info file
[11:40] <thesaltydog> the same?
[11:41] <dholbach> have a look at the Package's section in debian/control
[11:41] <thesaltydog> I have just added the Version: 1.2.7-1ubuntu0
[11:41] <thesaltydog> before I had no version info in control.
[11:41] <dholbach> yeah... cool - now have a look at debian/control
[11:42] <dholbach> version info in control is wrong
[11:42] <thesaltydog> dholbach, what should I look for?
[11:42] <dholbach> has to go to debian/changelog
[11:42] <thesaltydog> aahh. ok, so I remove from there and put in debian/changelog
[11:43] <dholbach> yes
[11:43] <thesaltydog> BTW, how should I have both chengelog.gz and changelog.Debian.gz?
[11:43] <thesaltydog> I have only one changelog file in debian dir
[11:43] <Keybuk> pitti: by "hct in breezy" do you mean HCT packages in breezy?  or just usable for doing breezy?
[11:44] <dholbach> thesaltydog: let's take this into #ubuntu-motu
[11:44] <thesaltydog> ok
[11:44] <pitti> Keybuk: well, packages are always appreciated, but actually I'm curious about both :-)
[11:44] <dholbach> ok
[11:45] <Keybuk> former, august most likely
[11:45] <Keybuk> latter, uh, couple of hours?  something like that
[11:45] <pitti> ah, thanks