=== jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:32] how are things jsgotangco [12:33] a bit late out of bed eh [12:33] i just woke up [12:33] hehe [12:33] did you get to talk to enrico? [12:33] nope [12:33] but i talked to jeff for a while [12:34] (waugh) [12:38] do you have to be a member to get an ubuntu.com email address? :0 [12:39] yes, but even members still dont have it yet (waiting) [12:39] mdke: how did it go [12:39] quite well [12:39] jsgotangco, btw meet SquishyWaffle he wants to join the team :) [12:39] greetings [12:39] hello SquishyWaffle, i am Jerome [12:39] SquishyWaffle, meet jerome, he works on kde docs so maybe you can work together [12:40] ah, great. Yes, I'm very interested in working on the KDE docs [12:40] that's great [12:40] i'll need someone to fill the void [12:40] because KDE docs will be 1.0 by Breezy [12:41] Well I'm eager to help with it :) [12:41] have you checked out the repositories or at least know docbook [12:41] Our LUG pushes Ubuntu to most of the members so this helps on multiple levels [12:41] I've looked at them but I haven't played just yet. Docbook just looks like a typical markup language, should be pretty straightforward. [12:41] yes [12:42] we even have a template in svn just in case [12:43] I hear there's supposed to be some meetings to determine priorities but is there any particular area we're focusing on in the KDE docs? [12:43] we plan to hold a meeting anytime this weekend or early next week [12:43] for KDE we only have 2 targets for now [12:43] the quickguide and the user guide [12:43] ok [12:44] we're incredibly short of manpower and active committers [12:45] well I'm around when you guys are ready :) [12:45] I can justify doing some of it at work since it benefits our researchers [12:45] awesome [12:46] I might be able to get some others involved from my LUG since we already do a lot of documentation at http://learn.clemsonlinux.org [12:47] I can put the word out to the rest of the group at our first fall meeting and maybe we'll get a group of people working on this on-campus eventually. Certaintly helps to be able to meet in person about things to talk [12:47] that would be amazing too [12:47] hopefully by then we'll have a good methodology going [12:48] yeah, I'm curious to see how it'll all pan out [12:49] ok well jerome will organise the meeting over the new week or so [12:49] This upcoming year we're going to present incoming students who buy their laptops from the campus with the option of Windows XP, Dual Booting Windows/Ubuntu, or Ubuntu only, really looking forward to it : [12:49] AMAZING [12:49] got the cds? [12:49] We're thrilled, this campus hasn't been very accepting of Linux but recently we've made lots of progress [12:50] we sent out for some Hoary ones ages ago but they never arrived, had lots of Warty back when that was the stable branch [12:51] yeah they ship to the people who didn't order warty first [12:51] SquishyWaffle: where from? [12:51] email em and ask for a big order, they can organise it [12:51] jsgotangco: Clemson, South Carolina [12:51] see the shipit FAQ [12:52] Well the need for CDs isn't huge since we net install Ubuntu at installfests :) [12:52] ok [12:52] but its cool to give em out [12:52] Oh yeah, we hand out tons of burnt ones [12:52] Went through the Warty ones in a few days and we had like 50 :) [12:53] converted a whole lot of Fedora/Gentoo'ers [12:53] great stuff [12:53] Of particular interest I really think the wireless setup stuff needs great attention for a wide variety of situations [12:54] yeah wifi support is not great [12:54] Since all of our laptops are wireless equipped, we've had to deal with a lot of different chipsets and hardware. It's usually straightforward but we've had problems with some of the Compaqs [12:54] a lot of laptop testing will go on before breezy [12:54] This is one of the most wireless campuses on the east cost, so it's very important :) [12:54] And that's good to hear, I need to get our guys suggesting stuff. That is THE biggest stumbling block right now for us as a LUG since everyone uses laptops (it's required by the school). [12:55] whoa [12:55] required? [12:55] do they give em out for free? [12:55] yes, it's a big engineering/science school, everything is electronic (admissions, tuition payment, homework, etc.). No, buy on your own :( [12:56] But it's good to have. You can get wireless everywhere and it's wonderful to be able to take notes electronically [12:56] I had a wiki going for my notes at one time, was awesome to have a searchable scratchpad. [12:56] very cool [12:58] well our svn has been officially silent for the last 12 hours === SquishyWaffle pings [12:59] quick upload something! [12:59] jsgotangco, i have spent my time on the wiki today [12:59] the wiki is now MOIN ONLY! [12:59] gyah [01:00] i still prefer media wiki [01:00] although moin has great table tags [01:00] yeah, I love Mediawiki [01:00] i actually run it in my laptop [01:00] for personal use [01:00] hehe [01:01] me too, great for note taking [01:01] we're using it to write a book at work, fit that application wonderfully [01:01] i must try that [01:01] it's awesome, helps with open-note tests :) [01:01] moin moin is great, although if your hardware is kinda old, its a bit slow [01:01] i'm in the stone age with abiword [01:01] moinmoin is perhaps the only words weirder than wiki [01:02] *grins* [01:02] dude, abiword rules, its way better than writer [01:02] hmm [01:02] well... [01:03] it loads a hell lot faster [01:03] true [01:04] are ubuntu meetings always this rowdy? [01:04] the CC ones normally are [01:04] the technical ones aren't [01:05] yeah [01:06] I'm not even going to bother trying for membership until I have enough amassed to make it an obvious decision :) [01:06] Just by watching this [01:06] *grins* [01:06] its a strange business [01:08] SquishyWaffle: just talk the talk and you'll get recognized [01:08] even if you do it on the sidelines [01:08] hey once you're in a team its straightforward [01:08] yeah [01:09] mdke: we currently have 3 active svn accounts [01:09] so as a non-member, will I be submitting updates to one of you guys once I start working? [01:09] we're freaking on the way the gates of hell [01:09] SquishyWaffle, yeah to the mailing list [01:09] jsgotangco, i told you, don't panic [01:10] it'll be fine [01:10] SquishyWaffle: yes, if you'd like to mess up with docbook, you'll just make a patch and send it to the list [01:10] SquishyWaffle, after a short time, you'll get commit access too [01:10] shoot, haven't played with patch in ages :) [01:10] SquishyWaffle, instructions on the wiki [01:10] mdke: like to panic === SquishyWaffle was going to ask :) [01:10] I [01:10] SquishyWaffle, we can help too [01:11] jsgotangco, i will help chill you out [01:11] i'm all about chilling [01:11] send me to cape town [01:11] SquishyWaffle: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository [01:11] that would help you chill? [01:12] SquishyWaffle: just ignore the make qg part [01:12] mdke: a trip to paradise would be good [01:12] try the pacific ocean [01:12] oh hang on a sec... [01:12] dude [01:12] you live there! [01:12] i live around the pacific ocean [01:13] hrm, how are images handled? === mdke grumbles [01:13] SquishyWaffle, in docbook? [01:13] SquishyWaffle: we use PNG [01:13] I'm very visual so I like to do lots of screenshots for applications. I'm talking in terms of getting them to you [01:13] hmm [01:13] email to the list, jsgotangco will push em through [01:13] or just email them to him direct ;) [01:13] so your attachment size limit is very high? :) [01:13] no [01:13] actually list isn't a good idea [01:14] its not [01:14] email to any one of us [01:14] ok [01:14] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TakingScreenshots [01:16] ok [01:38] interesting === mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === SquishyWaffle grabs the doc tree and starts tinkering [01:49] what packages do I need for this makefile script? [01:49] docbook? [01:49] well that went well [01:49] what are you building? [01:49] I'm looking at the root of the ubuntu-docs tree [01:50] looks to assemble .html files or something [01:50] ignore the makefile stuff [01:50] that is just for packaging the docs [01:50] oh, you can use "make html" [01:51] i dont even make my stuff [01:51] hehe [01:51] i like to do it hardcore [01:52] hmm glad sabdfl is involved [01:52] what is 12 UTC, noon? [01:52] yes [01:53] who that's not so bad here [01:53] (4pm) [01:53] oh wait [01:53] 8pm [01:53] not so bad either [01:53] hrm, khelpcenter is executed directly on these .xml files? [01:54] i think so, better ask jsgotangco [01:54] trying to look at kde/kynaptic/C/kynaptic.xml and it's horribly garbled in khelpcenter [01:54] no khelpcenter uses KHTML [01:55] ah khelpcenter sucks [01:55] *ksucks [01:55] yelp sucks more though [01:55] so what's best to use in KDE? [01:55] skrew you [01:55] SquishyWaffle: we still use Khelpcenter but need to clean it up [01:56] since we use docbook, we can easily create other formats [01:56] ubuntu/kubuntu docs is a topic for the meeting imho [01:56] jsgotangco: Am I right by doing a: khelpcenter kde/kynaptic/C/kynaptic.xml? [01:56] it comes out as a huge mass of words [01:57] seems khelpcenter doesn't read xml [01:57] so I'll probably have ot use yelp from KDE? [01:58] or build the html i guess [01:58] jsgotangco, how do you check your docs? === spartas [~tim@adsl-065-082-233-182.sip.btr.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:00] no idea how to build this html, it doesn't even look like the html.sh file is actually building anything [02:00] yes [02:00] use yelp [02:01] kde doesn't have a docbook xml viewer [02:01] html.sh does't work [02:02] is anyone able to run yelp with kde/kynaptic/C/kynaptic.xml without getting a boatload of errors and a blank page? [02:03] SquishyWaffle: its probably not well-formed xml [02:03] yargh :/ [02:03] hold on let me check [02:04] looks fine [02:05] hmm [02:05] haha [02:05] works here [02:05] my kubuntu doesn't have docbook in the first place [02:05] thats why its not validating [02:05] hehe [02:05] I've got docbook, is there any sub-packages that are needed? [02:06] maybe the yelp dependencies aren't right [02:06] i have to check [02:06] yelp depends on something like 29 packages [02:07] (strange that it also gets mozilla-firefox) [02:07] heh [02:07] let me review the CC meeting first [02:07] the last part is quite interesting [02:07] review? [02:07] i was roaming around when [02:07] ah when i kicked off? [02:07] ok [02:07] i/it [02:07] im in a client atm [02:08] its only 8am === spartas [~tim@adsl-065-082-233-182.sip.btr.bellsouth.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === SquishyWaffle found his first thing to correct :) [02:10] thats the stuff [02:10] all clear with the step by step patch thing? [02:10] oh, you want every minor change documented with a patchfile? [02:10] no no [02:10] just whatever you want to do [02:11] oh ok, didn't know because some people are that way with CVS and C/C++ development :0 [02:11] after you've worked on it and want to go to bed, patch [02:11] ok [02:11] I can issue a patch statement from the root directory and get everything in one hit, right? [02:12] well [02:12] we would rather patch small [02:12] so a per-file basis? [02:12] yes [02:12] ok, working on the quickguide atm [02:12] kde? [02:12] yup, found a few little glitches [02:12] heh [02:12] blame me [02:13] it happens, that's what I'm here for :0 [02:13] feel free to mess up with the structure [02:13] im just doing screenshots for now [02:13] it looks neat, I like the introduction and the legend === Majlo [~mario@213.215.74.3] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Majlo [~mario@213.215.74.3] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [02:18] wtf even yelp looks good in KDE [02:18] yeah, not bad [02:19] hmmm there's a problem with kynaptic.xml [02:20] it was pretty mangled [02:20] hmm [02:20] seems to validate here [02:20] and i can view it perfectly [02:20] hold on, i'll brb and reboot to ubuntu (in kubuntu) === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:25] hmm [02:25] am i missing something [02:25] even in gnome, the file isnt valid [02:25] whats wrong with it? [02:25] no idea [02:25] i'll do you a screenshot [02:26] http://www.mdke.org/images/yelp.png [02:27] nice domain [02:27] heh [02:27] got it recently [02:27] hmm wtf is not here [02:27] i have docbook [02:27] i'm not on ubuntu [02:27] xslt [02:27] hmmm [02:27] but its working [02:28] what are you using? [02:28] and the validate script is fine [02:28] gentoo [02:28] don't make me turn on my laptop [02:29] argh gentoo [02:29] argh kubuntu [02:29] :p [02:29] mmmm [02:29] emerge kubuntu [02:29] gentoo, so you like it hard [02:30] I love that picture of the boat on bottom of that ricer site :) [02:31] "It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others" [02:31] http://funroll-loops.org/gentoo.jpg [02:31] :( [02:32] that website is hilarious, lots of good quotes [02:32] will check it out [02:32] it's worth a chuckle [02:32] is that the one with Ubuntu with the cleavage [02:32] no, that's the one with big racecars and little spoilers [02:32] Gentoo Ricers :) [02:32] http://funroll-loops.org [02:33] ahhh Type R fans [02:33] i used to drive a Type R before i got married [02:33] oh thats so harsh [02:34] heh, well read some of the quotes, they are amusing [02:34] yeah [02:34] "Binary packages are bad! If you don't use your system to compile itself, it will lose the ability to compile itself. Huge systems like gnome, libc etc. are constantly decaying into complexity. Your pain is necessary, because a fraction of people like you will try and relieve that pain by improving the system." [02:35] and it's got a shot of an old P1 with a Turbo button on the bottom :) [02:35] so true [02:35] *grins* [02:35] those things were wicked [02:35] gentoo rocks [02:35] I'd push my turbo button before playing Commander Keen and I was rockin [02:35] "Sure, the extra 2% you gain from optimizing for your CPU is nice, but that's not main the reason to use Gentoo. It's about control. I have two words for the anti-Gentoo critics: "use variables". That's the power of Gentoo, being able to choose whether or not you want to install all of KDE just to get arts, or whether you want to enable gnome support in Abiword. No RPM-based distro can do that." [02:36] hey thats true [02:36] hmm [02:36] mdke [02:36] help me out think [02:36] what errors does the validate script give you? [02:36] no not that thing [02:36] for the meeting [02:36] heh [02:37] wassup? [02:37] how should i start this email [02:37] don't make it too melodramatic [02:38] hah [02:38] send me what you have and i'll look at it when i wake up? [02:38] its 2 am [02:38] "hey dudes, let's meet up and rock the casbah at" [02:38] nah, i'll just review the irclog [02:38] where are the conventions stored? I'm trying to come up with a list of the various tags like [02:39] not sure they all are tbh [02:39] if you come up with such a list, put it on the wiki it would be an excellent tool [02:39] you can use bluefish though [02:39] hrm, /common/C/conventions.xml [02:39] I may just do that mdke [02:39] hey i'd read it [02:39] would be good for newcomers too [02:39] jsgotangco, just say, the docteam needs to review its targets and directions and that canonical people have expressed a wish to help out and bring us closer to the community [02:40] jsgotangco, then ask for availability and agenda [02:40] DocteamVariousTags sound like a good page name? [02:40] *sigh* i have to check the wiki then, i hate the wiki [02:41] jsgotangco, i will help out in whatever way you want me to [02:41] SquishyWaffle, sure whatever you like, make sure you link it in the docteam section tho [02:41] ill refer to past wiki entries [02:42] cool [02:42] bed for me [02:42] good night y'all [02:42] night see you later then in a few hours [02:42] gimme 8 hours [02:42] ;) [02:44] my god that guy Mez [02:44] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewbieGods [02:45] rofl [02:45] jsgotangco, can you explain what sabdfl was talking about when he referred to email addresses @ubuntu.com during the docteam discussion? [02:45] i must have missed that particular argument [02:45] ugh, spelling error on that page, must fix :) [02:47] hmmm [02:47] ohh [02:47] he was referring to jdub [02:48] ?? [02:48] there was some dispute over his email address? [02:48] no no no [02:48] ;) [02:48] he was referring to the mini flame war that involved sean, jdub and others who decided to dive in [02:49] oh well [02:49] maybe I misunderstood [02:49] Newbie Gods? [02:49] oh now its about power [02:49] jsgotangco, from the meeting, but Mez has already taken it up like its an official project === mdke sighs [02:49] open source is exhausting [02:50] <-- bed for real now [02:50] okay [02:55] think the tag might be broken === shadowjack [~shadowjac@c-67-177-114-206.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:17] Check this out: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamDocBookTags === shadowjack [~shadowjac@c-67-177-114-206.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [03:31] hmmm nice [03:37] definitely not a complete list but it's a start === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-247.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:44] howdy [03:44] howdy [03:45] SquishyWaffle: are you greg taylor? [03:45] Yes I am, jeff [03:46] cool. I just saw DocteamDocBookTags [03:46] it's good to have. [03:46] good deal, I was hoping it wasn't already done [03:46] I have started a styleguide. see StyleGuideDiscussion [03:47] maybe you could move DocteamDocBookTags info to there? [03:47] sure, doesn't look like the make pdf stuff is working though [03:48] yeah. it only works if you have apache fop installed. [03:48] ahhh [03:48] I put a pdf in the repos yesterday, though [03:48] what's the package for fop? [03:49] if i had a brain, i would be able to remember how I got the fop stuff :-( [03:49] heh, no biggy [03:49] i think i got it directly from apache [03:49] doesn't look like yelp is letting me view that thing either, shoot [03:49] make html worked, that's just as good [03:49] yelp is working fine for me... [03:50] I tell ya what, let me work on the tag listing for a while and make sure it's complete before moving it to that. I may re-organize the list as I learn more about the doc system [03:51] no problem. [03:53] jeffsch! [03:53] howdy [03:53] i'm calling a meeting [03:54] ok [03:54] sabdfl, jdub and mako are interested in joining [03:54] what's it about? [03:55] well we just had a CC meeting a few hours ago and sabdfl was pretty worried over the mini flame war in the list [03:55] so first thing in agenda is to review our targets [03:55] at least update what we've been doing [03:56] second is at least chart a roadmap of what approach we would want to do with work [03:56] third is involve CC and create common ground so we can work together [03:57] CC? [03:57] Community Council [03:57] ok [03:58] i'm going to convince froud to attend, given that he has just withdrew his name in the list and deleted his details from the wiki === jeffsch is reading backlogs [04:01] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html [04:02]