[12:01] <kay> It installs some non-free modules and therefore is not in "main"
[12:02] <harlekin> ok
[12:02] <kay> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main multiverse restricted universe
[12:02] <nmorse> I'll see you guys later
[12:02] <kay> Have that, and you will get everything there is
[12:05] <kay> besides, type source /etc/bash_completion and then enjoy apt much improved
[12:05] <harlekin> tahnks
[12:05] <kay> apt-get inst<TAB> linux<TAB> is nice to have
[12:05] <harlekin> i#ve never used a debian based linux
[12:05] <harlekin> but i#ve used slakware
[12:05] <harlekin> yoper
[12:05] <harlekin> and mepis
[12:06] <harlekin> and fedora core
[12:06] <kay> Quite a bunch
[12:06] <harlekin> i know
[12:06] <kay> Funny thing is that I never used one from that list
[12:06] <harlekin> lol
[12:06] <harlekin> but they are quit boring
[12:06] <kay> I went from Suse over to Corel's and then Caldera and then Debian
[12:07] <harlekin> because most of them are gnome based
[12:07] <harlekin> oh
[12:07] <kay> Ah, i see... well, Debian used to hate KDE, Ubuntu is well not too KDE
[12:07] <kay> Yet, Debian's tend to do packaing things well, including KDE :)
[12:08] <harlekin> jes
[12:08] <harlekin> yes
[12:08] <kay> Kubuntu is quite a stunt I think
[12:08] <kay> You see, if open source code leads to better software
[12:08] <harlekin> yes
[12:08] <kay> so does open distribution
[12:09] <harlekin> but i think linux is the best
[12:09] <kay> And that is Debian, HP, Canonical, Progeny, lots of companies use and improve it
[12:09] <harlekin> every distribution is good
[12:09] <kay> There are too many for all to be good :p
[12:09] <harlekin> yes
[12:09] <harlekin> thats it
[12:10] <kay> With others, efforts are lost when they close down
[12:10] <kay> Caldera Linux... gone
[12:10] <kay> Turbolinux.... maybe gone
[12:10] <harlekin> yes
[12:10] <kay> Mandrake doesn't share its tools
[12:11] <kay> I believed in Debian's success more when Sarge was younger :p
[12:11] <harlekin> yes
[12:11] <harlekin> i don't like distros like mandrake or suse
[12:11] <kay> But I hear, Slackware is actually still very good, isn't it?
[12:12] <harlekin> yes but it is quite difficult
[12:12] <kay> Suse made me re-install with every update... Debian updates daily for years
[12:12] <harlekin> you have to do every thing
[12:12] <kay> Ah, I did some Gentoo playing too
[12:12] <harlekin> yes
[12:13] <kay> But, honestly, their handbook spoils it.... you just need to copy and paste :p
[12:13] <harlekin> lol
[12:13] <harlekin> but i think its a good dist. for firms
[12:13] <kay> Gentoo??
[12:13] <harlekin> yes
[12:14] <harlekin> you can choose your packagess
[12:14] <kay> Did I mention that my notebook came pre-installed with Gentoo
[12:14] <kay> Well, choosing the packages works ... slightly... better in Debian
[12:14] <harlekin> he where do you live 
[12:14] <kay> You know, you choose AND it works :p
[12:14] <kay> Germany
[12:14] <harlekin> me too
[12:14] <harlekin> lol
[12:14] <kay> The holy city actually
[12:15] <harlekin> wir knnen eigentlich deutsch sprechen oder nich
[12:15] <kay> Karlsruhe where LinuxTag is
[12:15] <harlekin> end fett
[12:15] <kay> English is shorter to type
[12:15] <harlekin> ok
[12:15] <harlekin> do you ever go there
[12:16] <kay> LinuxTag, well, last year, I missed it
[12:16] <kay> but normally yes
[12:16] <harlekin> is it good
[12:17] <kay> Well, you get to meet people who you normally only read about
[12:17] <kay> and i find it funny to be in a room with more than 30 people interested in Debian
[12:18] <kay> And I like that atmosphere there
[12:18] <kay> It's quite a hacker feeling and refreshingly professional
[12:18] <harlekin> i've to go there
[12:19] <harlekin> but i'am 17 years old
[12:19] <kay> where do you live?
[12:19] <harlekin> in Bochum
[12:21] <kay> Ah... some family of mine lives there 
[12:21] <kay> When I was 17, I was in Ruhrpott :p
[12:22] <kay> Now I am eh... 33
[12:22] <kay> .ooO( twice )
[12:23] <harlekin> lol
[12:23] <harlekin> i start with linux at the age of 14
[12:24] <kay> hmhm... i was 19 when Linux started
[12:24] <kay> But at the age, I think I already saw something named gcc on some floppy
[12:24] <harlekin> lol
[12:24] <harlekin> oO
[12:25] <harlekin> it is cool that every one supports you if you have questions about linux
[12:25] <kay> exactly
[12:25] <harlekin> i think it is the strongest comunity
[12:25] <kay> I remember when a friends showed me Linux in 1993, early 
[12:26] <kay> And gcc and stuff
[12:26] <kay> And I told him that it will not be a hit :p
[12:26] <harlekin> but now 
[12:26] <kay> And he actually predicted everything.... that people said 1999 that it will happen which now do
[12:26] <juanjoc> Anybody knows if the KDE 3.4.1 packages for Hoary/AMD64 are available somewhere?
[12:27] <kay> juanoc: That source in topic is not amd64?
[12:27] <juanjoc> kay: No, it only has i386 and powerpc binaries
[12:28] <kay> I just see it
[12:28] <kay> Damn... hm
[12:28] <kay> In Breezy it is
[12:28] <juanjoc> I know, but Breezy is supopsedly unusable.
[12:28] <kay> put xorg and stuff on holding
[12:29] <kay> For home usage, it should be Ok now, if you ask me
[12:29] <kay> The only thing that troubles me still is keyboard and X11....
[12:29] <juanjoc> Thanks, but I'd rather not do that. I don't want to have to reinstall everything. Have you built the packages from the sources? Will apt-build do?
[12:30] <kay> but with some dpkg-setselection magic from google, you ought to be able to not update it
[12:30] <kay> juanjoc: Honestly, I think they have a reason for not having amd64 there
[12:31] <kay> But you can always try....
[12:31] <juanjoc> Has anybody got it to compile?
[12:31] <kay> How about making a chroot with debootstrap and checking there if after dist-upgrading things work?
[12:32] <kay> You can always rm -rf it afterwards and it won't change your hoary
[12:32] <kay> I do that on my AMD64 that should be stable
[12:33] <nmorse> I think it may be time to convert the Gentoo box to an Ubuntu box
[12:33] <nmorse> Indeed, I think it is
[12:35] <juanjoc> Thanks for the help. I'll se what I can do.
[12:35] <kay> Except of course that this is always the time to do that, why specifically in that case and now, nmorse ? :)
[12:35] <bobbyd> how do I add oggvorbis support to mencoder?
[12:35] <bobbyd> and theora support?
[12:35] <bobbyd> I don't get why ogg/vorbis isn't in there as ubuntu is supposed to be very 'free'
[12:36] <nmorse> My 3D broke on the desktop agian
[12:36] <nmorse> And I don't want to waste time compiling all of that crap again
[12:37] <kay> bobbyd: Check the Wiki, I don't know that, but I am sure, this will be somewhere there if it is an issue
[12:38] <kay> nmorse: Confies
[12:38] <nmorse> It's a conflicting programs problem
[12:38] <nmorse> And I'll have to recompile my kernel over there
[12:38] <nmorse> Too much work since I just did that over here
[12:39] <nmorse> The question is, which OS to overwrite with Ubuntu: Debian or Gentoo?
[12:39] <nmorse> Or both, and make one 40GB partition my /home?
[12:40] <nmorse> I think Debian will be the first to go
[12:41] <kay> Did you see http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/0,2000061744,39195896,00.htm
[12:41] <kay> Embarrassing how they rushed Sarge out without testing it :p
[12:41] <sirukin> ha
[12:41] <nmorse> Rushed?
[12:41] <sirukin> I wouldn't consider it being rushed
[12:42] <kay> Was a joke
[12:42] <nmorse> Konqy won't open that page
[12:42] <sirukin> :] 
[12:42] <nmorse> nvm
[12:42] <nmorse> It came up after it lost focus
[12:42] <kay> Obviously they got their apt sources.list broken
[12:42] <WhiteRabbit> I just grabed the 8.5 gigs worth of the 2 dvds right before that came out... rofl
[12:42] <WhiteRabbit> O well only took 2 hours whats 2 more lol
[12:42] <kay> (I opened it in konqui of course)
[12:43] <nmorse> Don't bother, WhiteRabbit
[12:43] <nmorse> Just fix your sources.list manually
[12:43] <nmorse> Why use the DVD's if it only took you two hours?
[12:43] <WhiteRabbit> I'll just tap a floppy to the disc Im not redownloading it
[12:43] <nmorse> Just use the netinst cd
[12:43] <kay> Or try that small Ubuntu CD :p
[12:43] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, I own a pc shop
[12:43] <WhiteRabbit> Its nice to go out to locations that have dial up with the dvds
[12:43] <nmorse> you sell debian boxes?
[12:44] <WhiteRabbit> I convert wintel networks over to linux & freebsd networks
[12:44] <nmorse> I want that job
[12:44] <WhiteRabbit> plus Im a apple dev so next few weeks I'll be getting the 3.6 ghz Intel Mac at $999 bucks
[12:44] <WhiteRabbit> & will be deploying more macs once they fully release as well
[12:45] <kay> will it have even RAM ? :p
[12:45] <kay> No desire to flame, WhiteRabbit, but why pay more for less?
[12:45] <kay> With ... 0 apps waiting to run?
[12:46] <nmorse> mathematica is already on OS X Intel
[12:46] <nmorse> Took them two hours to port
[12:46] <kay> Wow, I guess people need that urgently where he works :p
[12:46] <nmorse> Pretty impressive set of APIs to do that
[12:46] <WhiteRabbit> kay, cause both freebsd & linux are boring to the general public that owns businesses & they are willing to spend the bucks for things that they like
[12:46] <WhiteRabbit> boring as desktops that is
[12:46] <nmorse> kay: that means money
[12:47] <nmorse> non-free even
[12:47] <WhiteRabbit> both linux & freebsd have like 0 innovation for a viable desktop that makes you go wow
[12:47] <kay> Hm.. and why did you need Intel hardware for it?
[12:47] <nmorse> It must be nice to work near *NIX boxes all day
[12:47] <nmorse> KDE makes me go wow
[12:47] <kay> I mean, OS X is fast enough on PowerPC for years now
[12:47] <nmorse> Cause Mac is going to Intel
[12:47] <kay> And besides, I like KDE more 
[12:48] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, some are happy with wine some like champagne its a funny world of choices
[12:48] <kay> Ah, you know that MacOS X won't run on Intel hardware, only on Apple hardware with Intel CPU
[12:48] <nmorse> Yeah, that's what Linux is all about
[12:48] <WhiteRabbit> intel for apple means more games & finally a updated laptop with less power needs
[12:48] <nmorse> Yeah, only on Apples
[12:48] <kay> And that means, you are supposed to pay for the Apple more money
[12:48] <WhiteRabbit> the general hardware market will jump to support apple on intel vs on the ppc platform
[12:49] <nmorse> Everyone says it will compete with Linux, but it won't, it's only on Apples
[12:49] <WhiteRabbit> same with game & app vendors
[12:49] <WhiteRabbit> guess you guys havent herd about openosx yet
[12:49] <WhiteRabbit> shame that is ;)~
[12:49] <kay> No, actually not, WhiteRabbit , url?
[12:49] <nmorse> Open OS X would be awesome
[12:49] <WhiteRabbit> plus OSX coming to intel is goin to boost FreeBSD madly I feel
[12:50] <nmorse> Why, it runs on Mach
[12:50] <kay> why should it?
[12:50] <nmorse> FreeBSD doesn't run on Mach
[12:50] <kay> FreeBSD is better OS anyway
[12:50] <nmorse> It is
[12:50] <kay> Only Aqua and .... what was it?
[12:50] <WhiteRabbit> http://www.apple.com/macosx/ = darwin = freebsd
[12:51] <kay> DisplayPDF?
[12:51] <nmorse> Darwin !== FreeBSD
[12:51] <kay> That's a lie, WhiteRabbit 
[12:51] <nmorse> Darwin == FreeBSD derivative on ugly microkernel
[12:51] <kay> They have more overhead
[12:51] <WhiteRabbit> darwin is just a lic converstioning basically
[12:51] <WhiteRabbit> well Im happy with choices both free & payed
[12:52] <nmorse> Same here
[12:52] <WhiteRabbit> Im not gonna drop linux & freebsd by no means
[12:52] <nmorse> My family runs almost exclusively Macs
[12:52] <kay> Now, honestly, do you think that Apple is going to sustain it?
[12:52] <nmorse> I'm the oddball with two Linux machines and a FreeBSD box
[12:52] <WhiteRabbit> I think osx is gonna help freebsd with drivers
[12:52] <WhiteRabbit> yes
[12:52] <kay> Financially, this is going to cost a lot
[12:53] <WhiteRabbit> & all the linux apps ported to osx will be ported right into freebsd unstable trees for use
[12:53] <nmorse> Does the ubuntu mini cd use tasksel to select which distro to install?
[12:53] <WhiteRabbit> & not need the linux emulation layer as much anymore over time
[12:53] <kay> OSX != FreeBSD
[12:53] <nmorse> FreeBSD's ports tree has all the linux apps anyway
[12:53] <kay> OS X ported would mean using OS X GUI
[12:53] <kay> Which FreeBSD cannot have
[12:53] <nmorse> Except Gabber, which is permanently platform tied
[12:53] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, well games as well
[12:53] <nmorse> Like what?
[12:53] <nmorse> UT2004 already plays on FreeBSD
[12:54] <nmorse> So does Doom3 from what I hear
[12:54] <WhiteRabbit> Americas Army which has slow linux & mac support that cant run on freebsd
[12:54] <nmorse> What's left, Neverwinter Nights even runs?
[12:54] <kay> Well, you know that Debian has Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
[12:54] <nmorse> That sure can if UT can
[12:54] <WhiteRabbit> will be ables to be run on freebsd in the near future because of osx
[12:54] <nmorse> Doubt it
[12:54] <WhiteRabbit> kay, yes alpha stage or beta is it now hehe
[12:54] <nmorse> Alpha
[12:54] <WhiteRabbit> Apples not gonna give all the goodies out to the open by no means
[12:54] <nmorse> The k stands for the fact it uses FreeBSD's c library I think
[12:54] <kay> Debian Etch will release it as stable
[12:55] <WhiteRabbit> but every little bit will help al
[12:55] <kay> No, kernel = k
[12:55] <nmorse> No, the Debian/GNUFreeBSD uses the glibc
[12:55] <kay> The libc was glibc, just too much porting needed otherwise
[12:55] <WhiteRabbit> I asked about etch today dont hold your breath hehe
[12:55] <nmorse> Hence the difference
[12:55] <WhiteRabbit> its gonna be a few weeks if not months
[12:55] <nmorse> Etch will be a while
[12:55] <WhiteRabbit> if etch gets to testing anytime soon I'll be surprised 
[12:56] <kay> Well, will they be faster this time?
[12:56] <kay> If not, we are talking of 2009 minimum
[12:56] <nmorse> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151857&threshold=1&commentsort=0&tid=90&tid=117&tid=106&mode=thread&cid=12740440
[12:56] <nmorse> That's an idea of how Debian releases
[12:57] <WhiteRabbit> debian is making my head spin with flip flops lately
[12:57] <WhiteRabbit> yay kubuntu
[12:57] <nmorse> Why, Kubuntu depends on Debian for upstream packages?
[12:57] <kay> Well, it's more or less a release process on top of Debian, isn#t it
[12:57] <WhiteRabbit> ubuntu is stilling alot of the lime light these days
[12:57] <kay> And honestly, if not for Canonical, maybe Debian had released faster
[12:58] <kay> They hired away all the people
[12:58] <nmorse> I think Progeny Debian has hope too
[12:58] <WhiteRabbit> thats Ian's company
[12:58] <kay> That was always so
[12:58] <WhiteRabbit> sure it has hope lol
[12:58] <kay> Never was Debian without companies that were more popular with their release
[12:58] <WhiteRabbit> but that debian/freebsd kernel is interesting
[12:58] <nmorse> Ian's company always has hope where Debian is concerned
[12:58] <kay> Lindows and Linspire
[12:59] <kay> Mepis
[12:59] <nmorse> Libranet
[12:59] <WhiteRabbit> xandros
[12:59] <WhiteRabbit> knoppix
[12:59] <kay> yeah... so many
[12:59] <kay> And more than ever now
[12:59] <nmorse> Knoppix isn't sold
[12:59] <WhiteRabbit> knoppix is wowware
[12:59] <kay> Still, people think of it as something different
[12:59] <nmorse> But Debian is the meta-distro
[12:59] <kay> The universal OS
[01:00] <kay> I hope they stick to it
[01:00] <WhiteRabbit> Richard would be proud
[01:00] <nmorse> Of course they will
[01:00] <kay> And that's why I hope they are going to do Hurd and FreeBSD
[01:00] <nmorse> It still has one of the largest userbases of any distro
[01:00] <kay> Just to spur driver things
[01:00] <nmorse> Debian GNU/Hurd scares me
[01:00] <kay> Why would it?
[01:00] <nmorse> It will have a slower release cycle than Debian Sarge did
[01:01] <nmorse> Hurd can barely boot right now
[01:01] <kay> As far as I know, people run Gnome and Qt programs on it
[01:01] <kay> So yes, well, it is not a good kernel
[01:01] <kay> But it will be a Debian like the other one
[01:01] <nmorse> I remember the announcement a couple of months ago when Hurd reached bootable status
[01:02] <kay> Actually, they will be able to sit you in front of a box and you won't know :p
[01:02] <nmorse> Of course, they switched microkernels before that
[01:02] <nmorse> Of course I will
[01:02] <nmorse> uname -a
[01:02] <kay> But not from the look of KDE
[01:02] <kay> :p
[01:02] <kay> Hurd does always something strange before it gets complete
[01:02] <nmorse> You can't tell anything apart from the look of KDE
[01:03] <nmorse> Like switch kernel?
[01:03] <nmorse> from Mach to L4
[01:03] <kay> Yes, I didn't get that
[01:03] <nmorse> Mach is a horrible kernel
[01:03] <nmorse> that's the whole story
[01:03] <kay> Well, if Apple uses it, people find it innovative
[01:03] <kay> :p
[01:03] <nmorse> Innovative, yes, sucky, yes
[01:04] <nmorse> I remember OS X 10.1
[01:04] <kay> Linus said that at least
[01:04] <nmorse> I saw the amount of Mach crashes
[01:04] <nmorse> Beats me what they did for 10.3 that makes it more stable
[01:04] <kay> YOu have to be fair and say that 10.0 was really a 1.0
[01:04] <nmorse> but 10.1?
[01:04] <kay> The first kernel release for them to the public
[01:04] <kay> That was only the second one
[01:04] <nmorse> They didn't get it right till the fourth
[01:05] <nmorse> Like OS 9 and 8
[01:05] <kay> Well.... Linux 1.2 was not perfect either :p
[01:05] <nmorse> Apple has a responsibility to a usable kernel though
[01:05] <nmorse> Linus doesn't
[01:05] <kay> What I want is to see a system, where the kernel is just a component like everything else
[01:05] <nmorse> Except for his job at OSDL of course
[01:05] <nmorse> Like Xen?
[01:05] <nmorse> Or like Plan9?
[01:05] <nmorse> or Inferno?
[01:06] <drx> Hi Im reading the unofficial ubuntu guide and it says i should go into System -> administration -> ... but i can't find Administration, is that placed somewhere else ?
[01:06] <kay> Hm... I only need one kernel at a time normally :p
[01:06] <nmorse> Are you in KDE or GNOME?
[01:06] <drx> kde
[01:06] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, I wonder if linus is kicking himself for switching to a mac recently 
[01:06] <kay> Might be meant for Gnome this guide
[01:06] <nmorse> There's an unofficial Kubuntu guide in the topic
[01:06] <nmorse> He runs linux on his Mac
[01:07] <nmorse> Helps facilitate PPC support too
[01:07] <WhiteRabbit> of course
[01:07] <kay> WhiteRabbit: Did you know what is happening with Cell and Power?
[01:07] <drx> oh how nice, thanks
[01:07] <nmorse> np
[01:07] <kay> I have seen these announcements coming from China
[01:07] <WhiteRabbit> kay, ya I saw cell running on the 2.6.11 kernel
[01:07] <kay> Every big one is in the deal
[01:07] <kay> And entirely excited too... PowerPC is not Power
[01:07] <nmorse> Cell does look nice
[01:07] <WhiteRabbit> cell is very interesting I betcha the plan9 people are jumping for joy on the thought of cells
[01:08] <kay> Not only they are
[01:08] <WhiteRabbit> inferno to
[01:08] <kay> I think, IBM sold PC business now
[01:08] <nmorse> to China
[01:08] <kay> And THEY have the power to make a replacement
[01:08] <kay> nmorse: Well, they were building the PCs anyway already
[01:08] <WhiteRabbit> ah the ibm link to cell
[01:09] <nmorse> Cell does look nice
[01:09] <nmorse> Will probably become popular in Asia first
[01:09] <kay> Yeah... IBM wants to replace PC _and_ has the standing
[01:09] <nmorse> Time to learn Chinese
[01:09] <WhiteRabbit> It would be ashame if the israeli optical processors morph the cell though
[01:09] <WhiteRabbit> which they will 
[01:10] <kay> And you know, for some people, Power is now at least "second source" for all important things
[01:10] <kay> Military e.g.
[01:10] <WhiteRabbit> http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/10/31/israel.lenslet.reut/
[01:11] <WhiteRabbit> blue gen is not the fastest overall super puter the us goverment has a megaverse super computer running off a slew of EnLight256 processors
[01:11] <kay> hm... 256 lasers
[01:11] <WhiteRabbit> http://www.lenslet.com/products.asp
[01:11] <kay> How will the memory work?
[01:11] <WhiteRabbit> optical memory
[01:12] <WhiteRabbit> more like optical drives
[01:12] <WhiteRabbit> you can store all kinds of info in the most compact form in light ya know
[01:12] <kay> I don't know, I am sceptic for such announces coming from startups
[01:13] <WhiteRabbit> http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/162/44/
[01:13] <kay> They need investor money and then we hear from them nothing anymore
[01:13] <WhiteRabbit> kay, ever saw how the us pays for those $75k dollar nuts & bolts
[01:14] <WhiteRabbit> or the $250 dollar toilets
[01:14] <WhiteRabbit> blackbag lovers they are
[01:14] <WhiteRabbit> more like $250k
[01:14] <kay> hm.... i am not lik ethem :p
[01:14] <kay> I would ask them how much will the processor cost
[01:15] <WhiteRabbit> Im feeling more interest in blu-ray than the cell currently
[01:15] <kay> And if not a bunch of Cells will be cheaper and be on market now
[01:15] <WhiteRabbit> Im gonna buy a ps3!
[01:15] <WhiteRabbit> new breed of hackers using networked ps3's haha
[01:15] <kay> He, I will too
[01:15] <drx> I have installed samba and smbfs through kynaptic, but i can't change any settings in the Control center, do i need to reboot after installing samba ?
[01:15] <nmorse> I'm debating it
[01:16] <makoto> HI all, could someone tell me how to enable sound from multiple apps to play simultanously? Right now one app will hog the sound card and wont share it...
[01:16] <WhiteRabbit> kay, funny thing is this remember the rumor mill about how saddam of iraq was using ps2 boards for missle lanchers & computers
[01:16] <WhiteRabbit> kay, well now that the specs of the ps3 is out thats interesting
[01:16] <kay> They said some things which were more obviously wrong :p
[01:16] <WhiteRabbit> mybe they had the 2 all wrong mybe it was 3
[01:16] <WhiteRabbit> kay, haha O yes
[01:17] <kay> I believe, Apple did itself a big disfavor
[01:17] <nmorse> makoto: are you using arts?
[01:17] <kay> I don't know if Power was much more expensive
[01:17] <WhiteRabbit> well MS was talking about paladin
[01:17] <kay> But if it was... well, ok then, but otherwise... they just made themselves benchmarkable
[01:17] <WhiteRabbit> mybe apple knew the move better be now than later because of a ms box called paladin
[01:18] <kay> And honestly, I trust the NT kernel to be faster than Darwin/Mach
[01:18] <nmorse> MS is using PPC chips for the Xbox and Mac on Intel, this is so sad
[01:18] <WhiteRabbit> apples business is not that high that its all about there hardware
[01:18] <WhiteRabbit> apples business size is not enuff to keep goin ppc while ibm couldn't keep up with moores law
[01:18] <kay> I guess they thought, they may survive it due to ipod
[01:19] <makoto> nmorse : Im sorry Im a major noob at Linux, what is arts?
[01:19] <WhiteRabbit> plus the general public will buy apple intel boxes faster than apple ppc boxes
[01:19] <kay> I think, IBM didn't care for PowerPC anymore
[01:19] <nmorse> arts is the KDE Sound Server
[01:19] <WhiteRabbit> everyone who runs a pc knows the name intel they dont all know ppc
[01:19] <nmorse> The gen pub has no idea what PPC or x86 is
[01:19] <WhiteRabbit> nope but they know the name of intel
[01:19] <kay> WhiteRabbit: If you know Apple, you already know something
[01:19] <WhiteRabbit> & thats what counts
[01:19] <nmorse> Yeah, now teach them AMD
[01:20] <makoto> nmorse : If it comes by default than I probably am using it as I haven't changed any settings yet for sound
[01:20] <nmorse> Okay
[01:20] <makoto> nmorse : any way to make sure?
[01:20] <nmorse> Hmmm, what kind of sound card is it?
[01:20] <kay> Because, I am sure, Apple will now have a big problem
[01:20] <makoto> nmorse : onboard soundmax
[01:20] <kay> One of Dell and friends will always have the bigger CPU
[01:20] <kay> The bigger RAM, the nice look
[01:20] <WhiteRabbit> As long as people are willing to accept rubbish, it will be economically advantageous to supply it
[01:20] <kay> And be dirt cheap
[01:20] <nmorse> What apps are you running that use sound?
[01:21] <WhiteRabbit> so apple is by goin to intel ;)
[01:21] <makoto> nomrse : amarok moslty
[01:21] <kay> But, Apple will not update as often as the others do
[01:21] <makoto> moslty
[01:21] <makoto> arrg mostly
[01:21] <nmorse> Okay, what engine is it set to (check in settings)
[01:21] <nmorse> ?
[01:21] <WhiteRabbit> solaris moves to amd apple moves to intel funny funny
[01:21] <kay> I don't know, but buying a 1GHZ PowerPC when Dell sells 1.8 Ghz Pentium... is one thing
[01:21] <makoto> nmorse sorry can't spell for the life of me
[01:22] <kay> But buying 3.6 Ghz when Dell sells 4 Ghz feels painful
[01:22] <makoto> nmprse : I'll check
[01:22] <WhiteRabbit> opensolaris is coming out next week or so to
[01:22] <nmorse> Opensolaris I may have to check out
[01:22] <kay> lol
[01:22] <kay> Solaris... ok, on Amd64
[01:22] <nmorse> makoto: hint: use tab completion to avoid spelling names wrong
[01:22] <nmorse> just type the first two letters and hit tab
[01:22] <WhiteRabbit> solaris 10 I didn't touch but opensolaris Im downloading & installing in a free spot on this FreeBSD box
[01:22] <makoto> nmorse, sweet
[01:22] <kay> But well... no more switching to dying OSes please
[01:23] <makoto> nmorse, good tip thanks
[01:23] <nmorse> not a problem
[01:23] <kay> WhiteRabbit: We had to make a study for a big european agency, it was called platform study
[01:23] <kay> WhiteRabbit: We migrated away from DEC and Tru64 (now HP)
[01:23] <makoto> nmorse, I should check in control center?
[01:23] <WhiteRabbit> I could understand those moves
[01:24] <kay> WhiteRabbit: Well, it was called "platform study", but in reality it was the "which Linux study"
[01:24] <nmorse> No, check under Settings -> Configure Amarok in amaroK
[01:24] <kay> When we raised Solaris, they just told us "no more dying OSes"
[01:24] <nmorse> kay: didn't try Sun Solaris on Fujitsu?
[01:24] <makoto> nmorse, im looking at sound system in control center and can't see any info on the engine used
[01:24] <nmorse> They called it a dying OS?
[01:24] <nmorse> makoto, no
[01:24] <nmorse> Check in amarok
[01:24] <kay> I sold commercial software for it last century :p
[01:25] <makoto> nmorse, ok
[01:25] <kay> Yeah, actually for them, nothing but Linux has a future
[01:25] <kay> That is of course completely wrong
[01:25] <kay> But then they are managers
[01:25] <kay> But regarding Solaris, they are right
[01:25] <makoto> nmorse, there is nothing under engine in amarok
[01:25] <WhiteRabbit> solaris has some of the very biggest network contracts
[01:25] <WhiteRabbit> thats out there
[01:25] <nmorse> Okay, set it to Arts in the empty dropdown menu
[01:25] <kay> The biggest trait of Solaris 10 now is to run Linux binaries
[01:26] <WhiteRabbit> janus
[01:26] <kay> no, was it 9? :o
[01:26] <WhiteRabbit> something freebsd has done
[01:26] <kay> Sun made like 1 billion losses one quarter
[01:26] <makoto> nmorse, arts isn't there, there are no choices at all as a matter of fact
[01:26] <makoto> nmorse, guess i have to get arts from synapse
[01:26] <kay> WhiteRabbit: Yes, but they don't depend on hardware sales to live
[01:26] <WhiteRabbit> kay, mybe we was wrong Microsoft is not goin to just buy Redhat but SunMicro to haha
[01:26] <nmorse> No, makoto
[01:27] <nmorse> Just get amarok-arts
[01:27] <makoto> nmorse ok
[01:27] <kay> They already own it, not?
[01:27] <makoto> nmorse, ill try that
[01:27] <WhiteRabbit> kay, well them switching to amd is gonna help
[01:27] <kay> They gave them 2 billion recently for a deal
[01:27] <kay> Help what?
[01:27] <makoto> nmorse, thanks for the help
[01:27] <nmorse> no problem
[01:27] <WhiteRabbit> sun make more sales
[01:27] <kay> Write of Sparc devision and investments?
[01:28] <nmorse> Sparc's an open platform and Sun's no good at making the chips
[01:28] <kay> Sun's AMD64 boxes will not be better than HP ones
[01:28] <kay> or IBM ones
[01:28] <nmorse> Fujitsu outperforms them easily
[01:28] <WhiteRabbit> kay, if you had a network of say 10,000 pcs to admin & you could choose the os & these were all x86 what OS would you choose
[01:28] <nmorse> Debian Linux
[01:28] <kay> No doubt, Debian
[01:28] <nmorse> Easy to administer and keep local copies of updates
[01:28] <WhiteRabbit> myself I'll choose FreeBSD
[01:28] <kay> Fully automatic Install
[01:28] <nmorse> make-kpkg helps too
[01:29] <WhiteRabbit> opensolaris is a interesting idea though
[01:29] <kay> Ability to copy debconf answer databases into installations
[01:29] <kay> Central repository for software that I can control
[01:29] <kay> Long support 
[01:29] <kay> Security fixes
[01:29] <WhiteRabbit> no one chose windows 2003 server?
[01:29] <kay> And KDE :p
[01:29] <WhiteRabbit> rofl haha
[01:29] <nmorse> I've used Win 2003 Server
[01:30] <kay> I never anything after Win2k
[01:30] <nmorse> Not bad as Windows goes, but certainly not good for that large an install, SUS or no SUS
[01:30] <kay> I actually bought it in 2000 and then went for Linux on the desktop
[01:30] <nmorse> Win2k was the best desktop Windows ever
[01:30] <WhiteRabbit> 40 mil for the OS install of course with that many lic MS would give you a break by 5 mil
[01:30] <kay> It was not bad... but Linux and KDE 2.2 beta 3 had something about it
[01:31] <kay> Like the ability to do what I need to do without flashy shit
[01:31] <nmorse> Hmm, trying to remeber GNOME's status at that time
[01:31] <WhiteRabbit> kay, I bet you used Corel
[01:31] <kay> You know the colors of Windows are so unprofessional
[01:31] <kay> It hurts
[01:31] <kay> I actually did that for a while, WhiteRabbit 
[01:31] <WhiteRabbit> me 2 hehe
[01:31] <WhiteRabbit> corel was nice at the time
[01:31] <mrmanic> the colors of windows are unprofessional?  
[01:31] <kay> And I toned down the colors in KDE here with an icon effect
[01:31] <nmorse> Never used Corel, jumped straight into Slink
[01:31] <nmorse> Win XP is unprofessional
[01:31] <kay> Simple and effective
[01:31] <nmorse> It's down right childish
[01:32] <WhiteRabbit> fisher price
[01:32] <nmorse> Exactly
[01:32] <mrmanic> nmorse: by default, sure.  that's why you theme it back to classic
[01:32] <nmorse> I set mine on the laptop to use the Classic theme
[01:32] <mrmanic> yep
[01:32] <kay> Well.... I never understand how they believe enterprises will use that
[01:32] <nmorse> Longhorn screenies look nice though
[01:32] <nmorse> Like a slick Classic
[01:32] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, remember the xp intro were the little kid is banging on the keyboard then mom comes up & uses system restore
[01:32] <kay> Still... everything about it is so unlogical
[01:32] <makoto> nmorse, im getting an error message I pasted it here : http://rafb.net/paste/results/AErdsh98.html   .   I tried in the terminal and got an unknown cammand error
[01:33] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, that really was a outtake of the real gui desing coding by said kid rofl
[01:33] <WhiteRabbit> s/desing/designing
[01:33] <nmorse> makoto: did you try the steps it listed?
[01:33] <kay> nmorse: Well, X people do cooler stuff today
[01:33] <mrmanic> longhorn does look sexy.
[01:33] <WhiteRabbit> even though xorg is legacy compiles of xfree atm
[01:33] <kay> Well, remember Cairo?
[01:34] <nmorse> Cairo looks like the answer to so many woes
[01:34] <kay> Well, Cairo was the name of Win95 back then in 93
[01:34] <makoto> nmorse, You mean download arts and then enable arts engine in amarok?
[01:34] <kay> It was object oriented and stuff
[01:34] <WhiteRabbit> blackcomb
[01:34] <kay> It was longhorn and better
[01:34] <nmorse> Oh, I thought you meant Cairo the vector stuff
[01:34] <makoto> nmorse, oh sorry misread
[01:34] <kay> They always say that
[01:34] <makoto> nmorse, 
[01:34] <kay> But never implement it
[01:34] <makoto> nmorse, yes i did try
[01:35] <makoto> nmorse, I get an unknow command message in terminal
[01:35] <nmorse> Okay, so the 'killall artsd && amarok' didn't work?
[01:35] <kay> I don't think we will see Longhorn and when we do, it will already be old for Linux users :p
[01:35] <makoto> nmorse, Perhaprs i have to do it from the amarok directory?
[01:35] <nmorse> NO
[01:35] <kay> And Apple users, granted
[01:35] <makoto> nmorse, no
[01:35] <mrmanic> I'm really enjoying tiger
[01:35] <nmorse> Just, without the quotes, type "killall -9 arstd && amarok"
[01:36] <nmorse> Tiger that good?
[01:36] <makoto> nmorse, let me try again
[01:36] <nmorse> Okay
[01:36] <WhiteRabbit> mrmanic, nice isn't it
[01:36] <kay> I still miss scripting on the desktop
[01:36] <mrmanic> nmorse: I have nothing to compare it to except kde.  There are a number of things I don't like, but there are a number of things I do like, too.
[01:36] <kay> Can't wait for KDE4 :P
[01:36] <mrmanic> kay: why miss it?  with dcop you can do it now.
[01:37] <WhiteRabbit> kay, http://www.opencroquet.org/
[01:37] <mrmanic> kay: or are you talking about tiger?  I'm pretty sure tiger has scripting capabilities too.
[01:37] <kay> Ok, how am I going to have a tray icon under my control
[01:37] <WhiteRabbit> Or rather I wanna see Looking Glass get out the door
[01:37] <kay> I looked at the dcop interface and no way
[01:37] <WhiteRabbit> I really like the look of Looking Glass
[01:37] <nmorse> I like 3D file managers
[01:38] <makoto> nmorse, it worked this time.  Thank you very much for your help.   
[01:38] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, opencroquet is right you your alley
[01:38] <kay> Looks nice WhiteRabbit 
[01:39] <WhiteRabbit> Theres another desktop effect that some fedora guy did the shakey pull down menus
[01:39] <kay> A lot of things are going to happen in 3D by 2007
[01:39] <WhiteRabbit> I cant remeber the name of that
[01:39] <mrmanic> kay: I don't really understand what you're trying to do.
[01:39] <makoto> I have to say I was hesitant to migrate to Linux because there is no service with the OS and software.  Was I ever wrong, no company offers service like the IRC community can... 
[01:39] <WhiteRabbit> kay, dual video cards 
[01:39] <nmorse> No problem, come here anytime you have a problem, makoto
[01:39] <WhiteRabbit> as pci express becomes more common
[01:40] <kay> In that case, I was trying to make an applet that would signal a status to me, mrmanic 
[01:40] <WhiteRabbit> pci express will have everyone that can afford it running dual gfx cards
[01:40] <nmorse> I want to rig a 3D file manager to act like a mansion or palace
[01:40] <nmorse> Every dir is room
[01:40] <kay> Doing that, was not possible without python-kde3 and lots of complications, like running all the time
[01:41] <nmorse> Then smaller dirs actually are bookshelves
[01:41] <nmorse> And their contents are on the shelves
[01:41] <nmorse> That's what I want
[01:41] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, hit the croquet forums & enjoy!
[01:41] <makoto> here's another question if I may.  I have a slave hard drive formated in NTFS.  Is there any way to format it to Fat32 without data loss?
[01:41] <nmorse> No, makoto
[01:41] <nmorse> There is a way to go from Fat32 to NTFS though
[01:42] <WhiteRabbit> makoto, yes
[01:42] <mrmanic> kay: I haven't tried to do that exact thing.  My scripting of the desktop has been pretty basic.  volume control, noatun song changes, window placement scripts, etc.
[01:42] <WhiteRabbit> nmorse, yes you can
[01:42] <nmorse> However, you can make it where you can access your NTFS drive from Linux
[01:42] <crimsun> you can if you have a spare partition at least as large as the larger of the two partitions
[01:42] <kay> Well yes, that works
[01:42] <makoto> nmorse, I can access it but only read not write
[01:42] <nmorse> Right, build a module to read NTFS, seems easier
[01:42] <kay> But how about Kdevelop
[01:42] <nmorse> That's ok, just recompile the module with write support
[01:43] <nmorse> It's easy enough
[01:43] <makoto> nmorse, even for a absolut noob?
[01:43] <mrmanic> has anybody used paragon ntfs for linux?
[01:43] <nmorse> Yeah, makoto, even for an absolute noob
[01:43] <WhiteRabbit> makoto, that makes it different then hehe
[01:44] <kay> I would like to have a script that could e.g. search my mails and do something with it
[01:44] <makoto> hehe well I learn quicly and Im willing
[01:44] <makoto> I can use the terminal Im starting to learn a few commands
[01:44] <WhiteRabbit> makoto, http://tinyurl.com/cw8hv
[01:44] <kay> Or e.g. to tie a konsole and konqueror to always be in the same directory
[01:45] <mrmanic> kay: those would be pretty nice.
[01:45] <WhiteRabbit> CONVERT C: /FS:fat32
[01:45] <WhiteRabbit> although not promiss of not lossing data
[01:45] <drx> Im trying to setup samba, i have managed to share one of my folders but the other computers on the network can't browse the network (windows says "Network not avalible"), i can browse the other computers though
[01:45] <WhiteRabbit> I did it once & didn't loss any
[01:45] <mrmanic> kay: can't you already have that with the "show terminal emulator" function of konquerer?
[01:46] <kay> Half of it
[01:46] <mrmanic> kay: yeah, so I realized.
[01:46] <kay> The konsole will follow konqueror, but not the other way round
[01:46] <mrmanic> kay: konsole isn't as dcop-aware as I hoped.
[01:46] <kay> i could trick with chaning prompt somehow
[01:47] <kay> but what i really want is that scripting is core part of things
[01:47] <makoto> nmorse, thanks...Ill look it up
[01:48] <kay> I should be able to have a script wake up once something happens
[01:48] <mrmanic> kay: it has a ways to go, but it's not as bad as it could be, for sure.
[01:48] <kay> it is weak so far
[01:48] <kay> Once python bindings are in kdebase, it will improve
[01:49] <kay> Look at how bad SuperKaramba looks
[01:49] <kay> (when you move things, etc)
[01:50] <kay> When I tried out Gnome back then in 2000
[01:50] <kay> (and was disappointed)
[01:50] <kay> They got me to that, because they said, they had all scripting going
[01:54] <makoto> WhiteRabbit, CONVERT C: /FS:fat32   I haven't seen letters used to refer to drives in Linux.  Wouldn't C: be my master?  Just making sure...
[01:54] <nmorse> Ubuntu installed on desktop
[01:54] <nmorse> Now getting 3D with ATI drivers working
[01:54] <nmorse> Then comes Neverwinter Nights fun
[01:55] <KaiL_> nmorse: >=Radeon 9500?
[01:56] <nmorse> 9600
[01:56] <KaiL_> then I wish you a lot of fun with fglrx :)
[01:56] <nmorse> now if only I didn't get bad intrepter: permission denied errors trying to run games
[01:57] <nmorse> Apparently /bin/sh is not a valid shell, please try again
[01:57] <nmorse> Crap does that suck
[01:58] <makoto> WhiteRabbit, and isn't CONVERT C: /FS:fat32 a DOS command. Im a bit confused here.  I keep reading that you can only convert from NTFS to FAT32 with 3rd party apps like partition magic.  Any thing like that for Linux?
[01:58] <nmorse>  /bin/sh: bad interpreter: permission denied
[01:58] <nmorse> How do I fix a cryptic error like that?
[01:59] <nmorse> It won't work with sudo either'
[02:00] <KaiL_> killed your disk/installation?
[02:01] <nmorse> No I didn't I don't think
[02:01] <nmorse> Hang on, I'll be back in a minute
[02:12] <nmorse> back
[02:15] <nmorse> fixed my problem, partition was mounted with user option, meaning noexec
[02:20] <nmorse> thanks to guys in #bash for that fix
[02:21] <nmorse> what's the wiki for ATI drivers?
[02:27] <crimsun> /BinaryDriverHowto
[02:28] <nmorse> Yeah, just found it
[02:29] <timo_> /n
[02:29] <timo_> oops
[02:40] <nmorse> Right, fglrx driver installed, check
[02:40] <nmorse> added to modules, check
[02:41] <nmorse> xorg.conf using it, check
[02:41] <nmorse> DRI, no
[02:46] <Mason59> Hello all.  May I ask a question?
[02:47] <nmorse> yeah, Mason59 
[02:48] <Mason59> OK, let me see if I can describe my problem...I can't apt-get or dselect or fetch my sources
[02:49] <nmorse> What sources?
[02:49] <Mason59> I receive the following feedback "Failed to fetch http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-updates/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Could not connect to localhost:4001 (127.0.0.1). - connect (111 Connection refused)"
[02:49] <nmorse> connect to localhost?
[02:49] <nmorse> Sounds like an interesting problem
[02:50] <Mason59> Yes.  Something is blocking the response at my end???
[02:50] <nmorse> Well, you connected to this so I assume you can resolve domain names
[02:50] <Mason59> I have OpenSSH and Snort enabled
[02:51] <Mason59> Yes DNS connection is OK
[02:51] <Mason59> Also, can surf the web, so I'm assuming that port 80 is OK
[02:51] <Mason59> Also can connect to mysql so port 3306 works
[02:52] <Mason59> Could a proxy cause this, as I may have installed one by accident?
[02:52] <nmorse> Odd that it wouldn't work then
[02:52] <nmorse> Is your apt intall broken?
[02:53] <Mason59> don't think so.  I used it on Sunday fine, but hasn't worked since
[02:55] <Mason59> Hmm. that's odd.  Just listed active processes in Gnome-System-Monitor and it shows aptitude running.  I've killed it.  Will try apt-get update...brb
[02:57] <Mason59> Nope...same problem.  Apt hits each of the sources, but doesn't fetch (111 Connection Refused).  Problem is definitely on my end
[02:57] <nmorse> Yeah, definitely on your end
[02:57] <nmorse> Are you on a stock Hoary install?
[02:58] <Mason59> Yes...Kubuntu
[02:59] <nmorse> Ok
[02:59] <nmorse> What have you done since it last worked?
[03:00] <Mason59> I installed several packages on Sunday and it worked fine.  After reboot, no apt...DOH!!!   What have I done :)
[03:02] <nmorse> Anyone know if the .config in /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.10 is the one used to build the ubuntu kernel?
[03:12] <nmorse> I wonder what the procedure to install distcc on Ubuntu is
[03:13] <heath> hey i was wondering if anyone else had a problem w/ openoffice.org2 crashing @ startup?
[03:14] <nmorse> Mine works
[03:14] <heath> mine worked the first time i downloaded it
[03:15] <cartel_> hey guys
[03:15] <cartel_> why is 3.4.1 not going into main?
[03:16] <nmorse> Main isn't updated until the next release
[03:16] <heath> well i'm reinstalling it now
[03:16] <heath> maybe it'll be fixed
[03:17] <cartel_> but uhh
[03:17] <cartel_> 3.4.1 is a maintenance release
[03:18] <cartel_> so you arent fixing bugs in main?
[03:18] <cartel_> shouldnt it go into the mainline ubuntu-updates?
[03:18] <Shuddertrix> that's what updates is for.
[03:18] <cartel_> hoary*
[03:19] <cartel_> instead of being in an unofficial and *not setup by default*  apt source?
[03:19] <cartel_> otoh are these packages not final?
[03:20] <heath> man this is annoying. i start openoffice.org2; it crashed re-launches itself automatically evertime i click ok and then everytime i try to start the word processor it crashes
[03:20] <heath> everything but word works
[03:25] <heath> i've reinstalled twice and now i'm upgrade my system which is downloading openoffice.org-l10n-en
[03:25] <heath> so just maybe that'll fix it
[03:26] <heath> btw, keep up the good work to all you commons
[03:26] <heath> tis a great distro
[03:28] <heath> i'm thinking it's maybe cause i have old ooo1 files on the sytem and ooo2 is using those files
[03:28] <heath> but i thought i had deleted ooo using apt-get remove 
[03:29] <heath> including the small files
[03:29] <eclub01> hi there
[03:29] <eclub01> what's d topic?
[03:30] <Shuddertrix> type /topic
[03:37] <heath> nope
[03:37] <heath> that didn't work
[03:40] <heath> i'm trying apt-get build-dep now
[03:41] <heath> i guess i can try apt-get check next
[03:41] <heath> didn't think about that
[03:42] <rcec52> Maybe someone can help me with the Konsole terminal program. . . .I must be doing something wrong. . . 
[03:44] <heath> what's going on?
[03:44] <rcec52> I've installed 'mc' Midnight Commander  and  when ever I go to the 'use root midnight commander' function I type in my inital program setup password and it doen't put me into root.
[03:45] <rcec52> what can be the problem?
[03:45] <monchy> you need to get into root before you run the game?
[03:46] <rcec52>  Anyone got any ideas?
[03:47] <heath> have you tried using sudo to run the program?
[03:48] <rcec52> I believe I have used sudo. .. with the same results. . . 
[03:50] <rcec52> I'm trying to install Acrobat reader but I can't get into root mode to allow installation directories to be made. .. 
[03:50] <monchy> well this will put you into root, sudo -s -H
[03:50] <monchy> at least that's what i've had to do and it's worked
[03:50] <heath> ughh! it still doesn't work
[03:51] <heath> maybe i should unistall and reinstall
[03:51] <rcec52> I'll give this a try. . ..
[03:57] <rcec52> This works for the basic terminal. . . .Ok. But I can't get Midnight commander to repond when I select 'New Root Midnight Commander' . It asks for the password which I type in and it sends me out to the terminal.
[03:57] <nmorse> mc may not use kdesu
[03:58] <nmorse> if it doesn't, the sudo won't work
[03:58] <nmorse> You'll need a real root account
[03:58] <nmorse> sudo passwd root will create a root account
[03:58] <nmorse> Meanwhile, file a bug in Malone
[03:59] <rcec52> I'll give these a try.  . .
[04:00] <heath> anyone know where the .deb files that apt-get gets are held @
[04:01] <heath> i'm thinking i may have to rmanually remove some files
[04:03] <nmorse> anyone know how to make distcc the default compiler called by apt-get?
[04:05] <heath> ahaa! /var/cache/apt/archives
[04:05] <heath> bing
[04:05] <heath> o
[04:09] <nmorse> anyone know how to use distcc at all?
[04:09] <heath> i don't
[04:16] <crimsun> nmorse: you don't need to make it the default compiler or anything
[04:18] <nmorse> Ok, how do I make it work with automake?
[04:19] <crimsun> did you read the man page?
[04:19] <nmorse> Yeah, some of it
[04:19] <nmorse> Mostly on distccd
[04:25] <nmorse> Here's hoping this works
[04:27] <nmorse> distccmonitor shows no tasks
[04:27] <nmorse> But it shows a load average
[04:27] <nmorse> That actually changes
[04:29] <nmorse> I don't think that worked
[04:30] <Chislon> if i learn bash will i "know" linux, and be able to use linux really well?
[04:31] <nmorse> You know what sucks? The fact that I haven't managed to compile a kernel on my own that runs on Ubuntu yet
[04:31] <nmorse> Then again, I've only tried since the security update that changed the sources
[04:31] <nmorse> i wonder if they broke something
[04:38] <sproingie> Chislon: "knowing linux" is going to mean something different for everyone you talk to
[04:38] <sproingie> i doubt bash will help much if you're writing device drivers
[04:39] <nmorse> bash will help you learn lots of quirks in the linux system though
[04:39] <Chislon> sproingie, ok... well, what do i need to get comfortable in linux and be able to to do waht i want as i can in windows, here im just lost lol
[04:39] <nmorse> To get comfortable to where you can do what you did with Windows?
[04:39] <nmorse> Learn the new apps, sit back, and relax
[04:40] <Chislon> well, not exactly what i meant, but if i could do everything i can with windows just as easily then im sure that would be a good spot too
[04:41] <sproingie> Chislon: learning bash is a good start.  i couldn't say exactly how to do learn it tho, i just learned to string together pipelines of sed, awk, grep, xargs, find, etc
[04:41] <sproingie> i guess that's what to learn
[04:41] <sproingie> learn to pipe programs into each other
[04:41] <sproingie> write really small programs that pipe into each other
[04:42] <sproingie> as an added bonus, if you run it on a 64-CPU machine, you'll use one CPU for each part of the pipeline that runs
[04:42] <nmorse> sproingie has access to neat hardware
[04:43] <sproingie> i used to
[04:43] <sproingie> best i get nowadays is dual xeons
[04:43] <sproingie> sun had some nice hardware to play with
[04:44] <sproingie> symantec's just PC's everywhere you go, unless you're actually in a research job
[04:44] <Chislon> ok thank you, not hta ti know what most of that means :)
[04:44] <Chislon> but thank you
[04:44] <Chislon> :)
[04:59] <nmorse> great now I have a modules.dep fatal error
[04:59] <nmorse> BBIAM
[04:59] <monchy> nothing but problems today huh nmorse :(
[05:05] <nmorse> Nothing but problems
[05:27] <nmorse> anyone in here get 3D using an ATI card working?
[05:27] <nmorse> using fglrx?
[05:29] <monchy> yep
[05:29] <crimsun> did you follow wiki/BinaryDriverHowto, nmorse?
[05:29] <sproingie> yep
[05:29] <nmorse> Yeah
[05:29] <nmorse> Didn't work
[05:29] <sproingie> the howto is excellent.  follow to the letter
[05:29] <monchy> i followed this; http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=32495&highlight=ati
[05:29] <nmorse> I still have no DRI
[05:30] <sproingie> nmorse: are you using a stock kernel, or one you compiled?
[05:30] <nmorse> Stock kernel
[05:31] <sproingie> glxinfo | grep direct
[05:31] <sproingie> what's that say?
[05:31] <nmorse> direct rendering
[05:31] <nmorse> : no
[05:31] <nmorse> render string: Mesa GLX Indirect
[05:31] <nmorse> Something like that
[05:32] <sproingie> did you switch your driver to fglrx in xorg.conf?
[05:32] <nmorse> yeah
[05:32] <sproingie> lsmod | grep fglrx
[05:32] <sproingie> what's that say
[05:32] <nmorse> and I set it up to use the external agpgart so the nforce system board wouldn't mess it up'
[05:33] <nmorse> and fglrx shows up in lsmod
[05:33] <sproingie> are you using only 24bpp?
[05:33] <sproingie> 24 bit depth, no others are supported
[05:33] <nmorse> Yeah, 24 bit depth
[05:34] <sproingie> restarted X, I imagine?
[05:34] <nmorse> Yeah
[05:34] <nmorse> I'll try again though
[05:35] <sproingie> hm.  is "GLcore" and "glx" in the Module section?
[05:35] <sproingie> and "dri"
[05:35] <nmorse> not GLcore
[05:35] <sproingie> add that
[05:35] <nmorse> You sure that's an ATI thing?
[05:35] <sproingie> no idea
[05:36] <sproingie> actually that's probably nvidia
[05:36] <sproingie> but i dont really know
[05:36] <sproingie> lsmod | grep nvidia
[05:36] <sproingie> make sure that's not loaded
[05:37] <sproingie> for some odd reason it can get loaded and interfere
[05:37] <sproingie> i personally just deleted nvidia.ko 
[05:37] <nmorse> I don't think nvidia is loaded
[05:37] <nmorse> I haven't installed the nvidia drivers
[05:38] <sproingie> if you installed the restricted modules, you have the nvidia kernel component
[05:38] <nmorse> I don't think I installed the restricted modules
[05:38] <nmorse> Is that my problem?
[05:38] <sproingie> there's your problem
[05:38] <crimsun> you don't need to insltall it.
[05:38] <crimsun> it comes by default
[05:39] <sproingie> find /lib/modules -name fglrx.ko
[05:39] <nmorse> fglrx is there
[05:39] <nmorse> I can grep my Xorg.0.log if you want
[05:40] <sproingie> well, this is waving a dead chicken, but it's what i have.
[05:40] <sproingie>         Option          "UseInternalAGPGART"    "no"
[05:40] <nmorse> Do you have an nForce2 board?
[05:40] <sproingie> in the Device section for the fglrx driver
[05:40] <sproingie> i have an nforce3
[05:40] <nmorse> crimsun: it didn't stop me from installing it. Are you sure that it's installed by default?
[05:41] <sproingie> or hmm .. maybe it's nforce2.  can't remember which it is now.  asus k8n-e
[05:41] <nmorse> It had it in new packages to be installed
[05:41] <crimsun> nmorse: linux-$arch has it
[05:41] <nmorse> sproingie: nforce3, has to be if it's an Athlon64 system
[05:41] <nmorse> OK
[05:41] <sproingie> ah, that it is
[05:42] <sproingie> speaking of which, does linux support the nforce firewall? 
[05:42] <sproingie> not that i care much, since i have a gateway box doing all the firewalling for me
[05:43] <nmorse> Hmm, looks like a minor problem with not acquiring AGP
[05:43] <sproingie> ah.  use the option line
[05:43] <sproingie> Option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no"
[05:44] <nmorse> trying that now
[05:44] <sproingie> never really stress tested ati's drivers on linux, but they sure seem nice now
[05:45] <sproingie> blender screams, faster than on windows actually
[05:45] <nmorse> still no 3D
[05:45] <nmorse> trying something else now
[05:45] <sproingie> i'm fairly stumped
[05:46] <nmorse> I'll be back in a minute
[05:47] <monchy> hope we get the new konversation soon, i hate being out of date
[05:47] <crimsun> in breezy?
[05:47] <sproingie> i found konversation quite krashy
[05:47] <sproingie> i use chatzilla now
[05:48] <monchy> for hoary crimsun
[05:48] <monchy> 0.18 was just released
[05:48] <sproingie> hoary will never do feature upgrades
[05:48] <sproingie> just bugfixes
[05:48] <crimsun> monchy: perhaps there will be 0.18 in backports
[05:48] <monchy> so i assume that the fixes will be backported like whats done with firefox?
[05:49] <crimsun> not unless there's a security fix, no
[05:49] <sproingie> all of firefox's fixes were security related
[05:49] <sproingie> the UI seems to still have some pre-1.0 behaviors.  ctrl-Y to open the download manager instead of crtl-j
[05:50] <sproingie> or maybe that's a win/linux difference, i dunno
[05:51] <monchy> i'm honestly starting to prefer konq, except for the fact that i can't use ad-block extension
[05:51] <monchy> really miss that
[05:51] <kakalto> me too
[05:52] <sproingie> adblock is godlike for me.
[05:52] <sproingie> i have greasemonkey so i can run bookburro, but that's a specialized application i can launch ff for
[05:52] <sproingie> and of course chatzilla, separate app entirely
[05:53] <monchy> any reason you chose to use chatzilla instead of x-chat?
[05:53] <kakalto> something funny happens when you run ff in one virtual desktop, and chatzilla extension in another
[05:53] <kakalto> chatzilla steals the input or something
[05:54] <kakalto> so if you type something in ff, it comes up in cz
[05:54] <sproingie> not really.  chatzilla just works
[05:54] <sproingie> it does have the occasional focus problem, i noticed that.  i think it's a javascript problem actually
[05:55] <sproingie> irc is just irc for me.  frankly, i miss MOO
[05:55] <kakalto> MOO?
[05:55] <sproingie> being able to create rooms and objects and use 'em occasionally in chat
[05:55] <sproingie> having a description
[05:55] <sproingie> etc
[05:55] <sproingie> kakalto: mud, object oriented.  tail end of the tinyMUD chat mud line
[05:56] <kakalto> uhk
[05:56] <sproingie> very programmable, lots of fun
[05:57] <monchy> oh sproingie i love your screensaver btw
[05:57] <sproingie> heh i named myself after the screensaver
[05:58] <monchy> lol it's awesome, all those slinky type things
[05:58] <sproingie> ahhh qbert was the bomb
[05:59] <monchy> hah i remember qbert, think it was snes
[06:02] <sproingie> heh no it was a standup console game of the variety weighing 500 lbs
[06:02] <nmorse> Now, anyone have any idea what might still be wrong with my 3D?
[06:02] <nmorse> Do I need to recompile my kernel and remove the DRM?
[06:04] <sproingie> should work with the stock kernel.  no idea what the deal is
[06:04] <monchy> aha there was a version of qbert on snes i knew it ;)
[06:04] <sproingie> yah, i just remember the version you poured quarters into
[06:05] <sproingie> the snes occurred during years when i never owned a tv, let alone played console games
[06:05] <monchy> some good times, everything was overpriced though
[06:05] <monchy> i remember 100$ cartridges
[06:05] <sproingie> bought my first console ever back in november
[06:05] <sproingie> ps2
[06:05] <monchy> oh wow
[06:06] <sproingie> my gf loves the hell out of it, plays the sims and katamari damacy all day when she gets on it
[06:06] <monchy> seen the ps3?
[06:06] <sproingie> yeah, powered by CELL, fueled by methane
[06:06] <sproingie> methane from the heaps of BULLSHIT from sony marketing
[06:06] <monchy> lol
[06:06] <nmorse> amen
[06:06] <monchy> the actual console looks slick though
[06:07] <monchy> much better than what they did with ps2
[06:07] <sproingie> looks ok.  i plan to wait a year for the price to settle and reality to kick in
[06:07] <monchy> oh i'm with ya there
[06:08] <monchy> ps2 launch was retarded, people selling them on ebay for 1k
[06:08] <sproingie> bought the ps2 to play "rpg's", knowing they couldn't be all THAT good, being console RPG's
[06:08] <sproingie> i had no idea how insipid most japanese RPG's really are
[06:09] <monchy> i hope you don't limit yourself to just RPG's
[06:09] <monchy> can't miss out on metal gear solid
[06:09] <sproingie> i have mgs2, but i suck badly at stealth games
[06:09] <sproingie> splinter cell is the only game i've physically taken out of the drive and thrown across the room
[06:09] <monchy> lol
[06:09] <sproingie> got so sick of restarting over and over and over
[06:10] <monchy> what about san andreas
[06:10] <sproingie> beyond good and evil however is one of the best games i've ever played
[06:10] <sproingie> gta is amazing, but i also suck at it
[06:10] <WhiteRabbit> nethack rulez!
[06:10] <monchy> oh! the jak games are great fun
[06:10] <sproingie> i just cannot aim in gta
[06:10] <nmorse> nethack-qt forever
[06:11] <sproingie> the damn control scheme confounds me every time
[06:11] <sproingie> yah my gf is an incorrigible nethack addict.  hardcore tho, plays only text
[06:11] <kakalto> >_>
[06:12] <nmorse> trying some forum directions on getting my 3D working
[06:16] <nmorse> the BinaryDriverHowto says to fix the error in my log file by installing the linux-restricted-modules, but they're already installed
[06:17] <nmorse> Maybe I should switch kernels and try that set of restricted modules
[06:19] <shido> how do I add a menu to the right mouse button click menu ? :)
[06:19] <shido> or add an entry , rather
[06:19] <shido> like "Terminal"
[06:19] <nmorse> To your KMenu?
[06:20] <nmorse> Right click on the K, and hit edit
[06:20] <shido> no
[06:20] <shido> when i right click on the desktop
[06:20] <sproingie> i hacked the installer to force an install, but firefox still doesn't find the plugin
[06:21] <nmorse> Like to make a new Desktop launcher?
[06:21] <nmorse> Just drag one from Kicker
[06:21] <shido> no, when I right click on the desktop I have create new, bookmarks, run command, etc
[06:21] <shido> I want to add a Terminal selection to open up an xterm like I do in Gnome
[06:22] <nmorse> drag it from the menu, actually
[06:22] <nmorse> Just drag and drop
[06:22] <sproingie> my desktop is never visible.  one thing i miss from windows is win-d
[06:22] <sproingie> to show the desktop
[06:22] <shido> I cant drag and drop to the right mouse button drop down meny
[06:22] <sproingie> actually, how do i set up kde to use windows keybindings instead of the kde ones?
[06:22] <shido> right click on your desktop what pops up? (in kde?)  thats the menu I want to edit
[06:22] <sproingie> so i can use win-r for run?  i think win-d actually works then
[06:22] <nmorse> Editing that menu's not easy
[06:23] <shido> I dont know where to look 
[06:24] <sproingie> there's a wizard that starts up with new kde installations, that i never got a chance to run
[06:24] <nmorse> There's a howto on kde-look.org
[06:24] <sproingie> the one that lets you select bindings, theme, eye candy
[06:24] <sproingie> anyone know the name of that?
[06:24] <nmorse> the wizard doesn't run on Kubuntu
[06:24] <nmorse> hang on
[06:25] <nmorse> kpersonalizer
[06:25] <sproingie> splendid.  it's perfect now
[06:26] <sproingie> tho i guess win-d never did work
[06:26] <sproingie> i miss that from windows
[06:31] <nmorse> yay, the switch to a k7 kernel did it
[06:31] <nmorse> I have DRI!!!!
[06:32] <monchy> congrats, all that hard work finally paid off
[06:32] <nmorse> Yeah, yeah it did
[06:32] <nmorse> Now I can play Neverwinter Nights and Starcraft
[06:32] <nmorse> Maybe even UT2004
[06:34] <nmorse> anyone know why alsa-oss isn't installed by default?
[06:35] <shido> dunno nmorse 
[06:35] <shido> I never got the sound for ut2k4 to work
[06:35] <shido> everything else worked great
[06:35] <WhiteRabbit> shido, you installed openal
[06:36] <nmorse> I can't right now either
[06:36] <shido> openal, no I didnt I didnt quite follow how to do that , WhiteRabbit 
[06:36] <WhiteRabbit> shido, openal is that eax if you have a audigy
[06:36] <kakalto> anyone got any ideas why on wolfenstein: enemy territory, the sound _sometimes_ works, but if I run as root, close, then run as normal user, sound works?
[06:36] <WhiteRabbit> shido, plus you can really goto town on the ut2004.ini to
[06:37] <shido> WhiteRabbit, I know what it is, but I have no idea how to install it on my system
[06:37] <WhiteRabbit> kakalto, onboard audio?
[06:37] <kakalto> yup
[06:37] <shido> soundmax 5.1 and usb 5.1 headphones - no clue how to install openal
[06:37] <WhiteRabbit> kakalto, buying a pci snd card would fix that
[06:38] <WhiteRabbit> sudo apt-get install openal
[06:38] <WhiteRabbit> cant remember if its in the multiverse or not though
[06:38] <WhiteRabbit> I belive its in the standard
[06:39] <nmorse> Doesn't work
[06:40] <nmorse> I can get libopenal0, but that's already installed
[06:40] <nmorse> No sound on UT2004 still
[06:41] <nmorse> killed arts too, still doesn't work
[06:42] <kakalto> what's with kopete?
[06:42] <kakalto> it can't verify passwords
[06:42] <kakalto> I put the correct password, and it says it's the wrong one
[06:43] <nmorse> kwallet is broken, from what I hear
[06:43] <sproingie> yay, made win-d work.  oddly, it was bound, but i had to change it to "default" then change the default
[06:43] <kakalto> so it's kwallet..
[06:47] <nmorse> dadgummit, why can't I make UT2004's sound work?
[06:48] <nmorse> Neverwinter Nights has no sound either
[06:50] <nmorse> might be that it's using the wrong sound card
[06:53] <nmorse> Should be using the SB Live
[06:53] <juanjoc> Does anybody know if the KDE 3.4.1 packages for Hoary/AMD64 are available?
[06:58] <nmorse> Bah, I just deleted the nForce sound driver
[06:58] <nmorse> that should fix something
[07:02] <nmorse> Yay, it worked
[07:02] <nmorse> SB Live sound now
[07:04] <dtorg29> Looking for fonts anyone know where i could find either then kde-look.org
[07:05] <SlicerDicer-> anybody know of why synaptic does not allow me to select multiverse and stuff like that
[08:09] <Goshawk> hi
[08:10] <Ghetek> should i get breezy?
[08:10] <Goshawk> maybe i found a bug on kubuntu. Trying to enter to the network configuration from kde control center, trying to get the administrator privilegies the "su" program is called, but as you know kubuntu has not the root password set. Is there a way t solve it? (call sudo instead of su)
[08:11] <Ghetek> i know all the probs with breezy... its just so taunting
[08:12] <Ghetek> !tell breezy
[08:12] <crimsun> Ghetek: no, don't use breezy
[08:13] <Ghetek> mmm
[08:14] <Ghetek> will a good wine installation or possibly winex be installed in breezy?
[08:15] <crimsun> wine, yes
[08:16] <Ghetek> awesome
[08:17] <Ghetek> i miss msn messenger games
[08:23] <Ghetek> i just got into a road sign...
[08:23] <Ghetek> 5 min working with a password and there is a sign near a major highway that reads "scoop your poop"
[08:24] <Ghetek> and thats how i spend my wed night... sigh
[08:28] <Peps> Hi, can someone help me get my windows 2k laptop connect to my kubuntu desktop?
[08:28] <Peps> I have samba running, not sure what to do on the windows side?
[08:29] <Peps> and do i need to worrky about the firewall?
[09:02] <kakalto> what do I need for amarok's equalizer?
[09:03] <kakalto> it's something that I had from ubuntu, but isn't installed with fresh kubuntu installs I think
[09:09] <abisen>  in kbuntu with kde 3.4.1 does anybody having problem opening chm files with KCHmparts.... 
[09:09] <abisen> i am getting /usr/lib/libkdevwidgets.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZTIN11KTextEditor8DocumentE error 
[09:10] <abisen> i have updated apt-get and upgraded my system no new library ... on the store 
[09:40] <erick> greetings
[09:41] <erick> can I ask a tech support question here?
[09:43] <thoreauputic> erick: just ask, yes - but it's a bit quiet atm
[09:44] <erick> kk. If I click on a video, I get an error message "KDEInit could not lauch
[09:44] <erick> I have tried to manually select Kaffeine as the default player
[09:44] <erick> but nothing seems to work
[09:44] <erick> also
[09:45] <erick> if I use the "run command" and type Kaffeine
[09:45] <erick> it doesn't recognize it
[09:45] <erick> I have to open it manually by going to the USR\BIN
[09:45] <thoreauputic> erick: open konsole and type kaffeie, and see what errors you get
[09:46] <thoreauputic> BTW, it's /usr/bin 
[09:46] <thoreauputic> you have windows reflexes :)
[09:46] <thoreauputic> I meant tyope kaffeine, of course, sorry
[09:46] <erick> the program starts
[09:46] <erick> lol
[09:46] <erick> I do
[09:46] <thoreauputic> OK
[09:46] <thoreauputic> it starts and?
[09:47] <erick> I didn't get an error message
[09:48] <thoreauputic> OK so it's a launch problem: try changing the properties in the menu to just say "kaffeine"
[09:48] <thoreauputic> as for the icon click, I don't know
[09:48] <erick> you know, that's how it was originally
[09:48] <erick> and the error message comes up
[09:48] <thoreauputic> hmm
[09:48] <erick> if I list the path, then it opens fine
[09:48] <erick> if I click on the video file directly
[09:49] <erick> I get an error message
[09:49] <erick> using the control center and the file association utility
[09:49] <thoreauputic> and if you just type kaffeine without the path it opens?
[09:49] <erick> I can select kaffeine as the program to use, but I still get the error message
[09:49] <thoreauputic> erick: mysterious...
[09:50] <erick> hehe
[09:50] <erick> of course, I could just open kaffeine and load the file
[09:50] <thoreauputic> possibly it's an arts problem: try changing the default timeout for artsd in kcontrol
[09:50] <erick> but it used ot work the other way
[09:51] <erick> where in kcontrol do I do that?
[09:51] <thoreauputic> sorry. i'm using fluxbox here at the moment - you'll have to dig :)
[09:52] <erick> oh ok
[09:52] <erick> thanks for trying though
[09:52] <erick> :)
[09:52] <thoreauputic> there's an option to tell arts to let go its vise-like grip faster somewhere...
[09:52] <thoreauputic> mine is set to 5 seconds
[12:26] <angelo> hello
[12:29] <angelo> can someone help me i cant get my sound to work it was working yesterday now when i stat my pc it gives me an error 
[12:32] <Goshawk> ciao angelo
[12:32] <Goshawk> qual' l'errore?
[12:32] <Goshawk> arg!! he is gone
[12:33] <angelo> Sound server informational message:
[12:33] <angelo> Error while initializing the sound driver:
[12:33] <angelo> device: default can't be opened for playback (No such device)
[12:33] <angelo> The sound server will continue, using the null output device.
[12:34] <angelo> can anyone help me?
[12:34] <angelo> it was working yesterday
[12:34] <Goshawk> [12:32]  <Goshawk> ciao angelo
[12:34] <Goshawk> [12:32]  <Goshawk> qual' l'errore?
[12:35] <angelo> ciao
[12:35] <Goshawk> angelo: hai aggiornato il kernel?
[12:35] <angelo> quello ke ho scritto sopra
[12:35] <angelo> mi dice:
[12:35] <angelo> Sound server informational message:
[12:35] <angelo> Error while initializing the sound driver:
[12:35] <angelo> device: default can't be opened for playback (No such device)
[12:35] <angelo> The sound server will continue, using the null output device.
[12:35] <Goshawk> angelo: parliamo in inglese cos se qualcuno legge ci aiuta?
[12:35] <angelo> ok 
[12:35] <Goshawk> are you using a cutom kernel?
[12:36] <angelo> yeah
[12:36] <Goshawk> that's the problem
[12:36] <angelo> i mean i dont know
[12:36] <Goshawk> you have not compiled the modules or the code for you sound card
[12:36] <angelo> the thing is it was working yesterday
[12:37] <Goshawk> with thesame kernel?
[12:37] <angelo> all i did was install some packeges so i think so
[12:37] <angelo> stuff like scribus kino gimp
[12:38] <Goshawk> angelo ma stai usando un kernel compilato da te? (custom kernel)
[12:38] <angelo> i edited fstab menu.lst (boot) and the souce list
[12:38] <angelo> no
[12:39] <Goshawk> strange.. it seems that the sound card is not seen by the kernel
[12:40] <angelo> but it was working before
[12:40] <Goshawk> what soundcard do you have?
[12:40] <angelo> its on my laptop acer travelmate 2700
[12:41] <jubei> is there a new build of kopete planned for apt-get?
[12:41] <Goshawk> ok.. you should have and AC 97 card if i'm not getting wrong
[12:41] <angelo> probly
[12:43] <angelo> is there any way to set back the settings to the way they were when i installed kubuntu without reinstalling
[12:43] <Goshawk> do lsmod and see if the module of you sound card is loaded
[12:43] <Goshawk> sudo lsmod | grep snd
[12:45] <angelo> ok i gata go thx
[01:12] <hanseatic> hi
[01:13] <hanseatic> how do I set the resolution for tty1-6, and how do I make them display correct umlaut symbols?
[01:19] <Goshawk> hanseatic: resolution for tty1 (console)?
[01:19] <Goshawk> i used the framebuffer to accomplish that work
[01:20] <Goshawk> add vga=value at boot time
[01:20] <Goshawk> vga=792  (1024*768)
[01:20] <Goshawk> but i don't know if it's really what you want
[01:23] <hanseatic> well, i want to see "more" i.e. smaller characters when i switch to the consoles
[01:24] <hanseatic> how do i find out, if my computer uses the framebuffer for consoles?
[01:28] <Goshawk> less /proc/fb
[01:28] <Goshawk> by default is uses 80 char console
[01:28] <Goshawk> you have to enable framebuffer
[01:29] <Goshawk> put vga=792 at #nonaltoption section of boot/grub/menu.lst
[01:29] <hanseatic> empty...
[01:29] <Goshawk> hanseatic: yes.. your framebuffer is disabled as default
[01:30] <hanseatic> well, i do not want to use the framebuffer for x11. can i use it anyway for console mode?
[01:30] <Goshawk> hanseatic: sure
[01:31] <Goshawk> framebuffer is from vt1 to vt6
[01:31] <Goshawk> vt7 is even X
[01:31] <Goshawk> s/even/always
[01:33] <Choubaka> Usually.
[01:33] <Choubaka> not always.
[01:33] <Goshawk> Choubaka: thanks :D
[01:34] <hanseatic> but there is nothing like dpkg-reconfigure console-settings-including-resolutions-colors-etc?
[01:35] <Goshawk> hanseatic: i don't know but i think there is not
[01:35] <hanseatic> okay... thanks
[01:35] <hanseatic> i'll play around with the fb
[01:36] <Goshawk> :D
[01:37] <hanseatic> another thing, i want to see umlaut and euro sign's by using de_DE.UTF-8@euro how do I get a setting in LC_ALL= ?
[01:37] <Goshawk> dpkg-reconfigure locales
[01:37] <Goshawk> maybe it can help you
[01:37] <Goshawk> building you locales
[01:37] <Goshawk> s/you/your
[01:38] <Goshawk> time to reboot
[01:38] <Goshawk> bye
[01:38] <hanseatic> i've done that... but it doesn't set the EURO option, and doesn't write anything in LC_ALL maybe the utf@euro isnt installed... what packet would it be in?
[01:42] <drx> what is the name of one of those cool cpu, memory etc, status programs that people have transparent on there desktops ?
[01:46] <hanseatic> gkrellm
[01:47] <drx> thanks
[01:47] <hanseatic> if you use kde you might want to have a look @ just a moment
[01:48] <hanseatic> karamba and kde-look.org
[01:48] <drx> great thanks
[01:49] <hanseatic> how do i select my install-source url's?
[01:54] <error403> hanseatic, thanks for the karamba idea!
[02:00] <hanseatic> it's nice to play around with... but that takes quite some recources, and was somehow unstable, but that was a while ago...
[02:03] <hanseatic> during installation I used the linux-386 kernel... I have a Pentium III would i want to update to some 686 kernel, and what is the difference between a kernel, and a kernel image, and what are the headers for... i don't need a link to some kernel page, or a detailed explanation... just to know what i want... for a good performance... i probably don't want to compile anything in the near future
[02:38] <reagleBRKLN> i have konq-plugins but no Tools->Validate Web Page->Validate HTML
[02:39] <reagleBRKLN> how t get that back?
[02:41] <makoto> hi all.  Could someone help me out with a harddrive config problem I have? 
[02:43] <hanseatic> what is your prob?
[02:58] <abisen>  in kbuntu with kde 3.4.1 does anybody having problem opening chm files with KCHmparts.... 
[02:58] <abisen> i am getting /usr/lib/libkdevwidgets.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZTIN11KTextEditor8DocumentE error 
[02:58] <abisen> i have updated apt-get and upgraded my system no new library ... on the store 
[03:00] <hanseatic> where would i find such a file to test it?
[03:01] <hanseatic> im rebooting ... ill check
[03:05] <makoto> could someone help me with a harddrive problem.  The drive is a slave that i formatted from ntfs to fat32.  It is now mounted but badly configured....
[03:07] <xxenon> is there a guide to get a bootsplash in kubuntu ?
[03:08] <hanseatic> bootsplash should be a general kontrol center thing...
[03:09] <hanseatic> what means badly configured fat32??
[03:09] <xxenon> bootsplash != KDE splash
[03:10] <hanseatic> k... bootsplash might be possible using the framebuffer @boottime
[03:10] <makoto> hanseatic, wel its abit of a long story
[03:10] <hanseatic> is there any data on your fat?
[03:11] <hanseatic> is it "badly" formatted or mounted?
[03:11] <makoto> hanseatic, I had a lot of problem formating it.  Now it seems to be mounted but when I create folders in it they show up under media:/hda1/drive2 instead of hdb1 which is the slave drive...
[03:12] <makoto> hanseatic, hda1 being the master
[03:14] <makoto> hanseatic, here is what I did : http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/297665 its a "how to" that I modified to help me (im a noob). I inserted the outputs and errors I got.
[03:14] <hanseatic> what does mount give out?
[03:14] <makoto> hanseatic, mount gives : http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/297666
[03:17] <makoto> the line /dev/hdb1       /drive2         vfat    iocharset=iso8859-1,codepage=850,rw,umask=0             0        has beeb changed to umask=0000 
[03:18] <hanseatic> i have no fat partition to compare... you should also have a look in /etc/fstab
[03:20] <makoto> hanseatic, ok
[03:21] <hanseatic> google for some /etc/fstab samples, there is also a manpage for fstab
[03:24] <makoto> hanseatic, ok the fstab line I have was given to me from someone who has a fat32 slave drive....
[03:25] <hanseatic> well... slave and master refer to your drive... fat32 is your partition format
[03:25] <makoto> hanseatic, right, not the same thing I guess
[03:26] <hanseatic> these are tow totally different things... one is a filesystem... some tree in some kind of format, slave and master are the modes by which the device on your ide bus is adressed
[03:27] <makoto> hans ok got it
[03:27] <hanseatic> a filesystem does not know, where the device it is on plugged in. ;o)
[03:35] <spiral> hmmm, hello
[03:36] <spiral> what's new in live 5.04.2 ?
[03:52] <_vinicius> Hello, my alsa sound dont start
[03:52] <_vinicius> root@trambique:/etc/init.d # ./alsa stop
[03:52] <_vinicius>  * Shutting down ALSA...
[03:52] <_vinicius>  * /etc/init.d/alsa: Warning: 'alsactl store' failed with error message 'alsactl: control.c:2234: snd_ctl_elem_value_get_integer: Assertion `idx < sizeof(obj->value.integer.value) / sizeof(obj->value.integer.value[0] )' failed.'.  
[03:56] <error403> Hmmm.  I have a problem...  Every time i create a file via FTP in my user directory, it isnt executable... is there any way to solve this?
[03:56] <error403> so that things are automatically 755 or something?
[03:58] <_vinicius> error403: ?
[04:00] <error403> basically
[04:00] <error403> i am writing a PHP website
[04:00] <error403> on a server on a LAN
[04:01] <error403> but whenever i create a file
[04:01] <error403> the PHP interpreter refuses to run it, because of a lack of permissions
[04:01] <error403> but if i chmod 0777 it, it runs
[04:03] <error403> any ideas?
[04:06] <abisen> can i somehow increase the verbosity of debuggin in the running kernel so that i see what's going on using dmesg or /var/log/message i have a problem my machine is running very slow (i mean slowww) in console every command takes around 5 minutes to execute even if it is man ls
[04:22] <spiral> hmmm, I've got a deps problem with kdesdk & kdesdk-misc
[04:40] <Balu> Hello everyone.
[04:42] <Balu> Any germans in here? I am having problems with the "dead keys" - even though it looks like the nodeadkeys option is set I need to press all of them two times (or use space)
[04:43] <Balu> e.g. like ^ or ~
[04:56] <makoto> Anyone has experience with fat32 FSTAB lines under KDE?  I've been googling aquite a bit and no to line are the same.  (And I don't mean mountpoints are different, options are....)  I still don't know what wrong with mine...,
[04:56] <makoto> to = two
[04:57] <ddh> xserver-xorg
[05:02] <ddh> ich knnt heulen... ich bekomm einfach keine umlaute... auch nicht in kde... 
[05:08] <Balu> ddh: Ich hab Umlaute hier in der normalen Konsole, nur sobald ich "sudo -i" (root-loginshell) mache nicht mehr
[05:09] <Balu> ddh: Was mich mehr aergert ist, dass ich ~ immer zwei mal druecken muss
[05:09] <Balu> ddh: Trotz aktiver "nodeadkeys"-Option in xorg.conf
[05:12] <rodolfo> makoto: what is not working?
[05:22] <Balu> ddh: aha - wenn ich in /etc/X11/xorg.conf das XkbLayout auf de-latin1 stelle, habe ich auch keine Umlaute mehr...
[05:25] <makoto> rodolfo, here's a link to a post on ubuntu forum i made
[05:25] <makoto> rodolfo, if you dont mind taking a look I would be grateful
[05:26] <rodolfo> ok
[05:26] <makoto> rodolfo, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=40486
[05:29] <dreumah> hey any one know a KDE app for mp3burn
[05:32] <KaiL_> dreumah: k3b ;)
[05:33] <dreumah> i am unable to make cds out of mp3s in k3b
[05:34] <dreumah> that will play on cdplayers and not on computers
[05:39] <rodolfo> makoto: what exactly you think is not ok in your configutation?
[05:42] <makoto> rodolfo, well when I open the hdb1 icon and try to make a folder I think its strange that it appears in media:/hda1/drive2 instead of hdb1/
[05:42] <rodolfo> it appears in media:/... because you set the mount point in the filesystem on hda1
[05:43] <makoto> so its not a problem? (Im a real noob.... sorry)
[05:43] <rodolfo> no, it's correct
[05:44] <rodolfo> I would only suggest maybe to set the mount point to e.g. /mnt/disk2
[05:44] <rodolfo> but it does not really matter
[05:44] <makoto> could you tell me how to point the hdb1 icon on the desktop to the right location? I tried to look for the option and could not see it
[05:45] <rodolfo> I have this in fstab: /dev/hdb1       /mnt/disk2       vfat    auto,user,exec,umask=000 0 0
[05:45] <makoto> rodolfo, is that a fairly easy thing to do?
[05:45] <rodolfo> yes
[05:46] <rodolfo> right click on the desktop and create a link to a hd device
[05:46] <makoto> just sudo mnt/disk2?
[05:46] <makoto> rod oh ok
[05:47] <rodolfo> ah, ok
[05:47] <rodolfo> if you set "auto" in fstab, it is mounted on boot automatically
[05:47] <rodolfo> you first have to create the mount point (as root)
[05:48] <makoto> under option? after vfat?
[05:48] <rodolfo> yes, like the line I posted
[05:49] <makoto> rodolfo, ill change the fstab line
[05:49] <rodolfo> ok
[05:50] <makoto> rod i'm not sure how to crate mount point, Ive learned a few commands but am still learning
[05:50] <makoto> rodolfo, crate = create
[05:52] <rodolfo> the command is: "sudo mkdir /mnt/disk2"
[05:52] <reagleBRKLN> i have kdeaddons konq-plugins installed, but don't see validate html tool?
[05:52] <ddh> a mount point is a simple empty folder type (mkdir foldername) from whereever you want it to be in
[05:53] <makoto> rodolfo, thanks you , simple enough
[05:53] <reagleBRKLN> i have /usr/lib/kde3/libvalidatorsplugin.so
[05:53] <rodolfo> just create a dir, like ddh said
[05:54] <rodolfo> then edit fstab
[05:54] <makoto> rod
[05:55] <makoto> rodolfo, ok ill give that try
[05:55] <makoto> rodolfo, thank you
[05:55] <rodolfo> ok
[05:57] <makoto>  in the line : "/dev/hdb1       /mnt/disk2       vfat    auto,user,exec,umask=000 0 0" do I actually put in "mnt" or my mount point?
[05:58] <rodolfo> makoto: put your mount point
[05:58] <rodolfo> no
[05:59] <rodolfo> makoto: /mnt if you want to put your "disk2" mount point under /mnt
[06:00] <rodolfo> makoto: "/mnt" already exists in the filesystem
[06:00] <rodolfo> is it clear?
[06:01] <makoto> rodolfo, i see. will this make the drive auto mount or is it only the auto option that does that?  Is there any reason for putting it in /mnt?
[06:01] <rodolfo> "auto" does the mount on boot
[06:01] <makoto> rodolfo, right, so what is the advantage of using /mnt as mount point?
[06:02] <rodolfo> there is only a habit on putting all mounted devices under /mnt
[06:02] <makoto> rod
[06:02] <makoto> rodolfo, i see
[06:02] <rodolfo> but you can put it directly under "/" if you like
[06:02] <rodolfo> or anywhere else
[06:03] <makoto> rodolfo, i think I got it, ill try and let you know...should i rebbot after im done?
[06:03] <rodolfo> I'm not sure, but I think it works without rebooting
[06:04] <rodolfo> edit fstab and then give "mount" command and see if the new mount is there
[06:04] <makoto> rodolfo, ok il try it... i'll reboot to be sure... brbr
[06:05] <rodolfo> yes
[06:05] <makoto> rodolfo, thanks again
[06:05] <rodolfo> I have to go now...
[06:06] <spiral> does anyone here know if koffice 1.4rc1 will be packaged for kubuntu ?
[06:09] <stephane> salut
[06:09] <stephane> ca parle francais ici
[06:10] <rodolfo> makoto: so?
[06:10] <makoto> rodolfo, everything seems to work fine now. Thank you very much
[06:10] <rodolfo> makoto: now create the icon on the desktop
[06:11] <makoto> rodolfo, done already... works great
[06:11] <rodolfo> good
[06:11] <rodolfo> you're done
[06:11] <rodolfo> see you, have to go...
[06:12] <makoto> see you, thanks again
[06:12] <rodolfo> ;)
[06:12] <rodolfo> bye
[06:12] <bhna> hi, is there any documantaion about kdm-themes?
[06:14] <error403> i know this is asked every day or so, but how do i create/enable a root account?
[06:16] <blueyed> "passwd root", error403 
[06:16] <error403> thanks blueyed 
[06:16] <gsuveg> re
[06:17] <gsuveg> anybody know a svn client for kde?
[06:18] <error403> blueyed, SSH wont let me in with it...
[06:18] <blueyed> Not a good idea, error403 .. you should not allow root to ssh to any box..
[06:19] <blueyed> just do "su -" then, if you have a root user.
[06:19] <error403> blueyed, i know, but i am doing it to SFTP all my configs etc. off the machine before a reinstall
[06:19] <error403> i do know about the dangers of root ssh
[06:19] <error403> but its only for like 5 mins
[06:20] <error403> then the box is going down anyway
[06:20] <\sh> copy all your stuff to an non priv account via cron and then rsync -e ssh it to your backup machine, and enable ssh key auth
[06:22] <error403> \sh, im doing it to a windows box
[06:22] <error403> >.<
[06:23] <error403> is there any way to sudo, passing the password with it?
[06:23] <error403> instead of having it prompt?
[06:23] <blueyed> if you have sudo'd before it's cached, error403.
[06:24] <blueyed> Please explain what you want to do.. copy files to a windows box?
[06:24] <error403> hmm
[06:24] <error403> yes
[06:24] <bhna> is there any documantaion about kdm-themes?
[06:24] <error403> but i need to copy the whole /home and /etc dirs
[06:24] <blueyed> do you have a root account on the windows box?
[06:25] <\sh> error403: yes, putty can deal with ssh2 keys
[06:25] <\sh> error403: for what? putty can handle ssh2 auths to an ssh2 key enabled sshd
[06:25] <error403> \sh, i know, i am trying to use WinSCP to SFTP into it
[06:25] <\sh> error403: winscp can deal also with ssh keys
[06:25] <error403> i know
[06:25] <error403> but
[06:25] <error403> i dont have a root account on the linux box
[06:25] <error403> well, not one that works
[06:26] <blueyed> to read what you want to copy?
[06:26] <\sh> error403: ??and why do u want to backup the config stuff, if you're not root?
[06:26] <error403> \sh, because Kubuntu doesnt let you have root easily
[06:26] <error403> \sh, i have a laptop running as a webserver, under Kubuntu
[06:26] <\sh> error403: ?? as i said: copy the configs to a non priv account and copy it from there where u can read it
[06:27] <error403> and i want to copy everything off of it, before installing Debian
[06:27] <\sh> or install cygwin and enable sshd under cygwin and copy the stuff from laptop to windows
[06:27] <error403> \sh, so you want me to copy my WHOLE /home dir to a dir inside the home fir?
[06:27] <error403> *dir
[06:27] <\sh> error403: when it's your homedir, you don't need root 
[06:28] <error403> why does Kubuntu make it IMPOSSIBLE to have root?
[06:28] <blueyed> error403: do "sudo -i" to become "root"
[06:28] <\sh> error403: u can set a root pw
[06:28] <blueyed> with "sudo passwd root" you can activate the real root.
[06:28] <\sh> error403: but for what?
[06:28] <error403> blueyed, i know, but to do that on winscp i need a way that doesnt require input
[06:29] <error403> ah
[06:29] <error403> i min
[06:29] <\sh> error403: u have access to your kubuntu box?
[06:29] <\sh> via ssh right?
[06:29] <error403> yes
[06:30] <error403> i do
[06:30] <\sh> u r sysadmin of this laptop, use your shell to help yourself: sudo tar -cvpjf home.tar.bz2 /home 
[06:30] <error403> actually, i am typing on it right now
[06:30] <error403> i have ACTUAL access
[06:30] <\sh> sudo chown userid:groupid home.tar.bz2
[06:30] <error403> ...
[06:30] <\sh> sudo cp home.tar.bz2 /home/<userid>
[06:30] <error403> ok
[06:30] <error403> 1 sec
[06:30] <error403> \sh, slow down a min
[06:30] <error403> i need to understand this...
[06:31] <error403> what is the p in -cvpjf?
[06:31] <error403> i know what the others are
[06:31] <\sh> if you're the first user account on your kubuntu box, u have sudo access
[06:31] <spiral> hmmm, I've got a small problem with a new kubuntu I just installed : when I change the configuration of the minidesktop previews, it doesn't stay when I launch kde again
[06:31] <\sh> -p == preserve attributes like uid,gid, and the access rights
[06:32] <error403> ok
[06:32] <\sh> error403: man tar
[06:32] <error403> thanks
[06:32] <error403> just did man tar
[06:32] <error403> thanks anyway tho
[06:32] <error403> right
[06:32] <error403> so do that for  /home and /etc then
[06:33] <\sh> do it
[06:34] <error403> k
[06:34] <error403> thanks
[06:34] <error403> as much as i love Kubuntu, cant wait for Debian... will be even better when KDE 3.4 is in the debian repos
[06:34] <error403> >.<
[06:39] <\sh> error403: what is the difference between debian and ubuntu?
[06:39] <KaiL_> ubuntu works ;)
[06:40] <\sh> error403: if you speculate on sarge, it's miles away from (k)ubuntu
[06:40] <error403> but
[06:40] <\sh> (as a desktop os)
[06:41] <error403> i find Kubuntu has was too many annoying quirks
[06:41] <KaiL_> error403: tell us!
[06:41] <KaiL_> each of them
[06:41] <error403> and my Laptop is a Server first, desktop second
[06:41] <\sh> e.g.? it's debian unstable...(so it's sarge at least with more up2date packages)
[06:41] <\sh> laptop server?
[06:41] <error403> yes
[06:42] <error403> laptop server = quieter (i can sleep in the same room as it)
[06:42] <\sh> www.laptopserverondebian.org down...."no it's not down, i'm carring it home" ,->
[06:42] <KaiL_> LOL
[06:42] <\sh> hahaha
[06:42] <error403> not found...
[06:42] <error403> >.<
[06:42] <\sh> sorry, couldn't resist
[06:42] <error403> ok
[06:42] <error403> oh
[06:42] <error403> lol
[06:42] <error403> >.,
[06:42] <error403> >.<
[06:42] <error403> LMFAO
[06:42] <error403> damn
[06:42] <error403> cant believe i fell for that
[06:43] <KaiL_> error403: and which are these quirks now?
[06:43] <error403> like the way apache configs seem simple until you see the way the Kubuntu repos have done it
[06:44] <\sh> error403: hmmm..u don't adjust your apache? 
[06:44] <error403> and the fact NONE of my FTP server configs worked at all
[06:44] <error403> i ended up having to write my own vsftpd config
[06:45] <error403> you would have thought the kubuntu configs would work with a kubuntu setup
[06:45] <KaiL_> ..not to mention, (k)ubuntu is primary for Desktops
[06:45] <error403> exactly
[06:45] <\sh> error403: hmm...I'm writing my configs as well...vsftpd works not just out of the box, as I want to use it
[06:45] <error403> i need server capability
[06:45] <KaiL_> ..and Laptops used as Laptops :)
[06:45] <error403> well, my laptop is desk-bound
[06:45] <error403> i dont usually need it
[06:46] <\sh> please gentlemen, don't tell me, kubuntu is not for servers?
[06:46] <KaiL_> for the last group, debian is hopeless, until you don't update around everything
[06:46] <error403> if i need a home computer, i carry a VNC client arround on a USB key
[06:46] <\sh> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.blogweb.de
[06:46] <error403> KaiL_, you saying Debian doesnt work on laptops?
[06:47] <\sh> and this is not my laptop
[06:47] <KaiL_> error403: as I call usable ACPI important for laptops, debian has no chance there
[06:47] <error403> i never said it wasnt possible to run a server on it
[06:48] <error403> but i want to be able to configure virtual hosts without it falling over
[06:48] <KaiL_> \sh: better ubuntu isn't optimized to be a Server
[06:48] <error403> why is usable ACPI important if it is always on?>
[06:49] <KaiL_> error403: your box is only a "Server in a Laptop case", that doesn't count
[06:49] <\sh> KaiL_: well...that's different..but for me, apache2+php+many blogs+5 jabber vhosts+prim+secondary dns..
[06:49] <error403> exactly
[06:49] <error403> KaiL_, with that in mind, i dont need ACPI
[06:50] <error403> anyway
[06:51] <error403> running a Laptop as always-on for months on end will be getting me a new laptop before the warrenty runs out
[06:51] <error403> :D
[06:51] <KaiL_> you CAN do everything with debian, what is possible with ubuntu and you CAN do everything with ubuntu, what is possible with debian
[06:52] <error403> exactly
[06:52] <error403> because they are both debian, esentially
[06:52] <KaiL_> yes
[06:52] <error403> (just dont say it in #debian)
[06:52] <error403> :P
[06:52] <error403> but
[06:53] <KaiL_> but using debian for desktops means you need to fix millions of details
[06:53] <error403> Debian lets me have root, Debian runs faster
[06:53] <error403> KaiL_, like what?
[06:53] <uniq> error403: how does debian run faster? 
[06:54] <KaiL_> I guess, debian runs faster, because it doesn't have powernowd ;)
[06:54] <error403> uniq, just what i said, it responds faster
[06:54] <error403> i mean, i found KDE 3.4 faster than 3.3
[06:54] <philipacamaniac> error403: you can have root here too, it just isn't shipped by default
[06:54] <error403> but Debian is still on 3.3 and beats the pants off a clean Kubuntu install
[06:55] <philipacamaniac> that's a little subjective
[06:55] <error403> in what way?
[06:55] <bhna> any idea, is there any documantaion about kdm-themes?
[06:55] <KaiL_> error403: I wonder, why you are here, if ubuntu sucks so much...
[06:55] <error403> heh
[06:56] <error403> because i was asking for help with Kubuntu...
[06:56] <error403> well
[06:56] <error403> i think, if i dont like Debian full-time, ill be back
[06:56] <error403> :P
[06:56] <error403> just on the server side of things i found Kubuntu a little awkward
[06:57] <error403> hmmm, food
[06:58] <uniq> i can't see where debian is so much better than kubuntu-server install. but that's maybe just me.
[07:00] <Bicchi> i noticed that there is a released of ubuntu every 6 months or so. I am currently running "Hoary 5.04" and my question is if when the next release comes out i will have to do a full install in order to get the benefits that come with the next version. I think the next name will be breezy.
[07:01] <uniq> you can upgrade directly from the internet.. or a cd.
[07:01] <philipacamaniac> Bicchi: it just requires pressing the upgrade button in Kynaptic (after adding the Breezy sources)
[07:01] <uniq> without re-installing.. or even rebooting
[07:01] <Bicchi> is that using the apt-get upgrade command?
[07:01] <philipacamaniac> dist-upgrade, I believe
[07:02] <Bicchi> so i have to change to use the breezy sources instead of hoary
[07:02] <philipacamaniac> yup
[07:03] <Bicchi> i hope that they post full instructions in the FAQ when the time comes to upgrade. I am just preparing ahead. way ahead.
[07:03] <philipacamaniac> It'll be there
[07:04] <Bicchi> i am also trying to upgrade to kde 3.4.1 and the deb command is not found. Do i have to install deb from synaptic?
[07:05] <philipacamaniac> deb is not a command, you add that line into your /etc/apt/sources.list
[07:05] <Bicchi> shot , you right
[07:05] <Bicchi> thanks
[07:06] <Bicchi> why would apt-get upgrade upgrade it. how come its not part of the universe.
[07:07] <philipacamaniac> Sorry, do you mean, why isn't at ubuntu.com repositories?
[07:07] <Bicchi> yes
[07:07] <Choubaka> Bicchi: updating should be as simple as changing the sources and running apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:08] <philipacamaniac> KDE 3.4.1 was provided by the Kubuntu team, but Ubuntu doesn't accept upgrades and changes once a version is released. So Hoary doesn't get upgrades. Kubuntu team was nice enough to give them to us anyway.
[07:10] <_marvin> kubuntu!!
[07:10] <Bicchi> philipacamaniac: but there will be ways to upgrade and update so the latest breeze release changing the sources. right?
[07:11] <\sh> Bicchi: kde3.4.1 is in breezy..brought to u by the nice kubuntu guys
[07:11] <philipacamaniac> Bicchi: Breezy is the next release, and it will come from ubuntu.com
[07:12] <\sh> Bicchi: but don't use breezy...it's very very very unstable...did i say very ?
[07:12] <KaiL_> \sh: to few very in your line.
[07:12] <philipacamaniac> as in, wait until it is released
[07:12] <Bicchi> philipacamaniac: so on the next release i will change the sources from hoary to breezy and the entire system will be upgraded to breeze including kernel, but kde will come from the kubuntu sources. am i understanding this right.
[07:13] <KaiL_> philipacamaniac: as in "ever tried to run a system on which core apps conflict with each other"
[07:13] <philipacamaniac> almost: for now, you can upgrade kde from kubuntu.org (without Breezy). Later, when Breezy is released, you can upgrade everything to Breezy, including KDE.
[07:14] <philipacamaniac> I wasn't recommending Breezy...
[07:14] <philipacamaniac> :)\
[07:14] <KaiL_> your warning was to small :)
[07:15] <philipacamaniac> do: echo "very"; loop
[07:15] <\sh> DON'T USE BREEZY ! U NEVER HEARD OF BREEZY ! THERE'S NO BREEZY OUTSIDE ,-)
[07:15] <KaiL_> for everybody who still didn't understand: if you have problems with breezy, we do NOT help you
[07:15] <Bicchi> is the kernel also going to be upgraded as well when the next release of breeze comes out.? 
[07:15] <\sh> what is breezy?
[07:16] <KaiL_> not "next release of"
[07:16] <philipacamaniac> ROFL
[07:16] <KaiL_> "when breezy comes out"
[07:16] <KaiL_> as in "when Windows Longhorn comes out"
[07:16] <philipacamaniac> like that will happen
[07:16] <KaiL_> (only a bit earier and a bit more usable ;)
[07:16] <Bicchi> WTF, is talking about breezy taboo. i am just trying to learn about whats happening next.
[07:17] <henryb> so what's breezy?
[07:17] <philipacamaniac> I think they just came in to the conversation too late, thinking you wanted to upgrade to Breezy now (btw, don't)
[07:17] <philipacamaniac> never heard of it
[07:17] <henryb> ;)
[07:17] <henryb> hahah
[07:17] <KaiL_> henryb: the fastest way to kill your system
[07:18] <uniq> it's not that hard to downgrade though :)
[07:18] <uniq> (don't try)
[07:18] <KaiL_> uniq: sure?
[07:18] <uniq> I've done it a few times.. 
[07:18] <uniq> did it twice on my old laptop.
[07:19] <Bicchi> let me ask another question. NOT RELATED TO BREEZY. I noticed that when i don't close kopete before i shut down linux i get like an error screen. i noticed that i only happens when i leave kopete running before i shut down or reboot
[07:19] <uniq> but it's not recommended. things will break, and you'll often have to clean up manualy.
[07:20] <KaiL_> Bicchi: yes
[07:20] <Bicchi> Kail_: yes, what?
[07:20] <KaiL_> kopete is known as it "doesn't leave out a chance to crash"
[07:20] <KaiL_> I have that here too
[07:20] <KaiL_> duno, if kde3.4.1 fixed that (gave up using this tool from hell)
[07:22] <Bicchi> Kail_: also how about the sound. sometimes i am playing am mp3 and i have notifications turn on and when i put the the sound on stop i hear the notification from the speakers minutes latter. like if it remained in the buffer.
[07:23] <Bicchi> on queue that is.
[07:23] <KaiL_> hmm, maybe that's a feature? :)
[07:24] <Bicchi> i wouldn't call it a feature, like i noticed that on windows i cam play music and at the same time other sounds can come out of the speakers.
[07:24] <KaiL_> install akode-mpeg from universe, that foxes several strange and unexplanable sound bugs, maybe this too
[07:24] <Bicchi> not sure if linux doesn't behave this same way
[07:25] <KaiL_> as long as you have artsd rumming, yes
[07:25] <philipacamaniac> How about this: when you play a sound more than once (before it is finished playing), it seems to flood the buffer, and the sound gets really really loud and distorted
[07:25] <Bicchi> what is artsd. hmmmmmm
[07:25] <KaiL_> kde sound server
[07:26] <Bicchi> Kail_: does that come installed by default. i mean i allready can hear music. so it should be installed.
[07:26] <KaiL_> yes
[07:26] <KaiL_> as long as you didn't disable it
[07:26] <henryb> what exactly is the difference between kubuntu and ubuntu + apt-get install kde?
[07:26] <philipacamaniac> kubuntu-default-settings
[07:26] <KaiL_> henryb: apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[07:26] <KaiL_> is closer
[07:27] <henryb> does it simply draw together a bunch of useful kde packages?
[07:27] <KaiL_> yes
[07:27] <henryb> aight
[07:41] <_jackson_> um, hi, new here.  if someone could give me a little help that'd be great
[07:42] <philipacamaniac> what's the problem
[07:42] <_jackson_> i just reformated my hard disk and installed kubuntu but without a dual boot system
[07:43] <_jackson_> can you tell me how to put windows back on because I have to do some homework ... i don't even know how to boot from cd in linux :S
[07:43] <philipacamaniac> booting a cd doesn't require linux, you just put your Windows CD back in the drive, and it should boot
[07:44] <_jackson_> okay, super cool.  thanks heaps
[07:44] <philipacamaniac> what homework do you need to do, because OpenOffice works pretty good
[07:44] <_jackson_> um, well i don't even know how to mount the floppy drive...
[07:44] <henryb> so the problem is getting at your homework?
[07:45] <philipacamaniac> Just click on the floppy icon, which should show up on desktop, but is also in Media:/
[07:45] <_jackson_> yeah, getting it
[07:46] <henryb> just stick your floppy in and do as philipacamaniac says
[07:46] <henryb> it'll be faster than installing a whole OS, and openoffice is great (openoffice 2 imo is fantastic)
[07:47] <_jackson_> heh, prolly very true.  phil> the disk isn't on the desktop, neither is the cdrom
[07:47] <_jackson_> ok, found it now. thanks very much
[07:47] <philipacamaniac> Click on the System Icon, then click on Media
[07:47] <monchy> hah nice, ati added a control panel in the new drivers
[07:48] <philipacamaniac> henryb: is the ODT format working for you in OOo2? I have the hoary packages, and ODT is broken. Odd thing is, ODT seems to be broken in the Windows version either.
[07:49] <_jackson_> i think when my brain wakes up from its windows days, i may even figure some of this stuff out myself ;)
[07:49] <henryb> i actually don't use ubuntu. i have the latest stable gentoo oo2 package, and everything works
[07:49] <henryb> i'm here because i'm interested in helping a friend with a kde based binary distribution
[07:49] <henryb> and looks like kubuntu is it:)
[07:50] <_jackson_> sorry to go on but i'm only seeing 4 files and i'm sure i was up to number 9, would kubuntu show files in Word format?
[07:50] <philipacamaniac> i see
[07:50] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: Word format files should be visible, and will open with OpenOffice
[07:51] <henryb> have a question though...are all debian and ubuntu packages compatible? i have a debian mirror - can a ubuntu/kubuntu system use that for some software?
[07:51] <philipacamaniac> pretty much, debian packages are compatible with ubuntu/kubuntu... not always the same in reverse, so I've heard
[07:52] <_jackson_> thanks :)
[07:53] <henryb> i guess that makes sense. debian often has much older software, so it might not be compatible...
[07:53] <philipacamaniac> Is anyone using the OpenOffice.org2 Hoary packages?
[07:58] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  yeah i've been using them for a little while
[07:58] <philipacamaniac> firasR: does the ODT (default format) work for you?
[07:59] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  ODT ? sorry u'll have to elaborate 
[07:59] <philipacamaniac> OpenDocument (whatever the extension is - I guess i forgot)
[07:59] <philipacamaniac> ODP?
[08:00] <philipacamaniac> the new default OpenOffice format
[08:00] <henryb> odt is the extension, and it stands for open document type doesn't it?
[08:00] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  wouldn't know sorry, i'm mostly using it with M$ documents (.doc, .xls etc.)
[08:00] <philipacamaniac> okay - ODT. Every time I save one and then try to reopen it, OOo2 crashes. It works great with MSWord files and old SXW files.
[08:01] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  hold on, i'll give it a try
[08:01] <philipacamaniac> thanks
[08:03] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  works fine for me, i just saved a .doc document as ODT, closed Writer, double clicked the file, editted it saved it again, and I can open it just fine
[08:04] <_jackson_> sorry, another question: how can i change the screen resolution to 1024x768?
[08:04] <philipacamaniac> okay... its just me. I *guess* that's good news.
[08:04] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  hehe, in a way yeah :)
[08:04] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  what version r u using ?
[08:04] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: what's your current resolution
[08:05] <philipacamaniac> firasR: the most updated Hoary package, whichever that is?
[08:05] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  i'm using 1.9.79.2-0ubuntu2
[08:06] <philipacamaniac> copying that and saving it for later... :)  (not on Kubuntu machine right now)
[08:06] <_jackson_> 800x600
[08:06] <idan> cant find /dev/dsp (have an Old SBpro) what am I suppose to do ?
[08:06] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  good luck with that
[08:07] <philipacamaniac> thanks...
[08:08] <firasR> anyone using KDevelop3 here ?
[08:09] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: open a Konsole (it is on the K-menu), and type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg", then type in your password and follow the directions
[08:11] <_jackson_> thanks philipa
[08:13] <firasR> _jackson_:  before u do that, u might wanna try right clicking on the desktop -> Configure Desktop -> Display then see what screen sizes are listed, if 1024x768 is not there, then u'll have to do what philip suggested
[08:13] <philipacamaniac> yeah, I was gonna suggest that, but I didn't think anything higher than 800x600 would show up...
[08:14] <philipacamaniac> usually it sets you to the highest resolution set in xorg.conf
[08:14] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  probably not, it usually defaults to the highest supported resolution anyways, but just so he knows where he can switch between supported resolutions for the future
[08:14] <firasR> :)
[08:14] <philipacamaniac> good call
[08:17] <_jackson_> yeah, its not there, 800x600 is the biggest showing up
[08:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hi,
[08:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > Im trying to compile something from source, and it coems up with checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= Qt 3.0) (headers and libraries) not found. Please check your installation!
[08:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > For more details about this problem, look at the end of config.log.
[08:17] <Alex[RM-UK] > whats wrong with it :S
[08:18] <_jackson_> the system is showing the monitor only as 'generic', in windows i had it set to 1024x768.  problem is i don't know any of the monitor details.  
[08:18] <Alex[RM-UK] > _jackson_, you need to edit the xorg.conf and add in more resolutions 
[08:19] <philipacamaniac> no, he can run dpkg-reconfigure
[08:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > ?
[08:19] <Balu> Alex[RM-UK] : Did you install the development-packages?
[08:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > of what?
[08:19] <Alex[RM-UK] > qt?
[08:20] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: be right back, I'm booting a vmware to tell you the exact process
[08:20] <Balu> Alex[RM-UK] : probably, lemme check
[08:21] <_jackson_> okay thanks
[08:21] <Balu> Alex[RM-UK] : kdelibs-dev perhaps?
[08:22] <Balu> Alex[RM-UK] : uh, it was looking for qt?
[08:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > yes
[08:22] <philipacamaniac> Alex[RM-UK] : what are you compiling?
[08:22] <Alex[RM-UK] > karamba, but I just found a debian package, so I just installed it via that - but i'd still like to know why it went wrong
[08:23] <Balu> IIRC correctly there also was an environment variable needed sometime
[08:23] <Balu> I needed to set that when trying to compile Psi
[08:25] <Alex[RM-UK] > how do you move an entire folder to a folder?
[08:25] <Alex[RM-UK] > with mv ?
[08:25] <Balu> yep
[08:25] <Balu> just mv source targetfolter
[08:25] <Balu> folder :)
[08:26] <Balu> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156776&goto=nextoldest
[08:26] <Balu> perhaps you were looking for ./configure --with-QT-dir=DIRECTORY
[08:29] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: when you run the reconfigure wizard, you should be able to just select the default values it gives you for everything...
[08:29] <philipacamaniac> I'm also using generic monitor
[08:29] <Alex[RM-UK] > Hum, I just installed a KDE Improvement, and when I go to Contorl Center....its not there
[08:30] <Alex[RM-UK] > http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=24898
[08:31] <philipacamaniac> Alex[RM-UK] : I don't think that will show up in KControl... you should log out and then log back in to KDE
[08:31] <philipacamaniac> it is probably an applet for you Kicker (panel at the bottom of the screen)
[08:31] <Balu> does anyone know how I can enable the nodeadkeys-Option? It is included as option in xorg.conf, but it does not work :-(
[08:31] <Alex[RM-UK] > Ahh right,
[08:31] <Alex[RM-UK] > brb,
[08:32] <Consty> Has anyone heard of issues with the 2.6.10 kernel and alsa 1.0.8?  Using knoppix, alsa 1.0.8 is included and the .11 kernel and my soundcard works just fine.  But with kubuntu it does not.
[08:32] <philipacamaniac> what sound card?
[08:32] <_jackson_> thanks philipa
[08:32] <philipacamaniac> _jackson_: did you get it?
[08:33] <Consty> philipacamaniac: Audigy 2 Value, support was only added in 1.0.8
[08:33] <Consty> So support is relatively new.
[08:33] <Alex[RM-UK] > nah didnt work :(
[08:33] <philipacamaniac> Consty: I have an Audigy 2, you have to set the output to Analog mode... lemme remember how real quick
[08:34] <Consty> philipacamaniac: Yeah but do you have the Audigy 2 value?
[08:34] <Consty> philipacamaniac: It's a different chipset from the others apparently.
[08:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > First compile and install the source 
[08:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > a sub-dir within the source dir named theme exists.
[08:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > and from that..
[08:34] <Alex[RM-UK] > what the ... does that mean, thats not english
[08:34] <philipacamaniac> hmm
[08:35] <philipacamaniac> Consty: I still think the digital output is an issue with all Audigy 2's but I could be wrong.
[08:35] <Consty> philipacamaniac: Doesn't analog like suck though?
[08:35] <philipacamaniac> Consty: no, no, it has to do with the actual output of your soundcard. You don't own digital speakers do you, and you're not sending the signal to an external 5.1 processor, are you?
[08:36] <Consty> correct
[08:36] <philipacamaniac> So you want analog output
[08:36] <Consty> but the thing is, I can't even get into alsamixer or anything, no sound cards.
[08:36] <Consty> I can modprobe emu10k1 and it'll install it, however sound still will not work, nor will alsamixer work
[08:36] <philipacamaniac> Now, see... that means your card isn't working :)
[08:36] <philipacamaniac> hold on
[08:37] <Consty> Yeah, it's weird.  I think its an issue with the .10 kernel... I heard about it being really fidgety with alsa and such
[08:37] <Consty> that .11 fixed a lot of those problems.
[08:37] <_jackson_> um, no
[08:41] <philipacamaniac> Consty: okay, you're not alone, and this looks like it will really help: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21211
[08:42] <Consty> interesting
[08:42] <Consty> thank you very much philip
[08:43] <philipacamaniac> I didn't realize there was such a difference between Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 value
[08:45] <Consty> Yeah most dont, but its cool that there is in fact a fix.
[08:46] <Consty> I'll probably just download and compile the 2.6.11 kernel which will include the newer alsa drivers and I'll be fine.
[08:46] <philipacamaniac> okay, that will require a little bit more work, but that's great if your comfortable with it
[08:47] <Consty> I used to run slackware, so as long as kubuntu doesn't have any problems with me compiling my own kernel I should be fine.
[08:48] <philipacamaniac> Hey, I started on Slackware
[08:57] <Consty> cool
[08:58] <Consty> i think many did
[08:58] <Consty> Its probably the best for learning the low level linux stuff without graphical utilities
[08:58] <Consty> or things like ports/portage
[09:00] <philipacamaniac> I used it at the time because it was the best, stable, up-to-date distro around. But since Pat still hasn't switched to Kernel 2.6, I decided it was time to move. And lo, and behold: Ubuntu came along!
[09:03] <Consty> thats cool, and yeah I know what you mean, crazy how they're sticking to 2.4.
[09:03] <Consty> so what did you really lik eabout ubuntu?
[09:03] <philipacamaniac> apt-get, kernel 2.6, kde 3.4 (and now 3.4.1)
[09:03] <philipacamaniac> Oh, and DBUS/HAL
[09:06] <Consty> ubuntu is the first linux distro that I've been able to get my moniter to work correctly
[09:06] <Consty> none of the other distros work correctly
[09:06] <Consty> I swear I'm so unlucky.. I have the pickiest hardware around
[09:06] <Consty> The lcd moniter I have.. they only produced like a few thousand in the world
[09:06] <Consty> crazy
[09:07] <firasR> ubuntu's the first distro which I haven't needed to recompile the kernel (yet) to get things working right on either my PC or ThinkPad laptop :)
[09:07] <Balu> I hate 2.6 in Ubuntu :)
[09:07] <Consty> well dont get me wrong, I needed to modify xorg.conf
[09:07] <Consty> to get my moniter to work
[09:08] <Balu> I can not get my CDRW at work running with cdrecord
[09:08] <Balu> all broken with 2.6
[09:08] <firasR> Balu:  isn't it just 2.6.10 though ?
[09:09] <philipacamaniac> I have a cheapo generic CD-RW, and K3B loves me
[09:09] <firasR> although I haven't had any problems burning DVDs and CDs on both my machines using the default Ubuntu kernel
[09:09] <Consty> what about ripping dvds
[09:09] <Consty> anything like dvdshrink/decryptor in linux?
[09:10] <firasR> Consty:  haven't tried that, but it's mentioned in ubuntuguide
[09:11] <Balu> firasR: .11 came out yesterday?
[09:11] <Balu> or something?
[09:11] <firasR> http://ubuntuguide.org/#dvdrip
[09:11] <firasR> haven't tried it though
[09:12] <Balu> Consty: there is dvd::rip for linux
[09:12] <Balu> not tried though :)
[09:13] <firasR> Balu:  2.6.11's been in Universe for some time
[09:14] <firasR> Balu:  had some problems with it so I went to the ubuntu 2.6.10 kernel
[09:16] <Balu> hm
[09:16] <Balu> need to give it a try
[09:17] <firasR> Package linux-image-2.6.11-1-686
[09:20] <error403> ~tell _randabis about away
[09:20] <error403> heh
[09:20] <error403> doesnt work...
[09:20] <error403> >><
[09:20] <error403> >.<
[09:20] <firasR> strange though, doesn't seem to be a linux-restricted-modules package for 2.6.11
[09:21] <philipacamaniac> because it is in Universe, which gets no support, maybe...
[09:23] <firasR> maybe
[09:32] <jaro> hi
[09:32] <jaro> everyone
[09:42] <rift-> Anyone in here run ati radeon card w/ fglrx?
[09:42] <rift-> i just installed it and I am having some issues
[09:43] <philipacamaniac> yeah, I'm running a 9700 pro with fglrx and gl rendering
[09:43] <firasR> hi jaro
[09:43] <rift-> can you switch terminals philipacamaniac 
[09:43] <rift-> ?
[09:43] <jaro> hi
[09:43] <rift-> everything works fine except I can't switch terminals
[09:43] <rift-> if I do X dies and so does the kb and mouse
[09:43] <philipacamaniac> you mean CTRL-ALT-F1 and such?
[09:43] <rift-> I have to ssh in from another box
[09:43] <rift-> ya
[09:43] <philipacamaniac> yes I can
[09:43] <rift-> even if I load vmware
[09:44] <rift-> and ctrl alt enter
[09:44] <rift-> to go to full screen it causes problems... 
[09:44] <philipacamaniac> what card?
[09:44] <rift-> the weird thing is the radeon driver doesn't do this, only fglrx
[09:44] <rift-> 9800 pro
[09:44] <rift-> 128MB 
[09:44] <rift-> i thought maybe it was related to frame buffer support since that caused issues in the past with ati cards, so I built a new kernel without that and I still have problems
[09:45] <philipacamaniac> It must be specific to 9800, I'm not having that problem at all...
[09:45] <rift-> i have seen others report it sparingly on the forums
[09:46] <rift-> seems like the xt cards experience it as well
[09:46] <philipacamaniac> this may be flamebait, but I heard that the newer ATI cards are not that great
[09:46] <philipacamaniac> in any OS
[09:46] <philipacamaniac> :)
[09:46] <rift-> well this was free, so I am not complaining
[09:46] <rift-> ;)
[09:46] <rift-> my nvidia card worked flawlessly
[09:47] <rift-> i have to say nvidia has nailed it as far as linux support/drivers are concerned
[09:47] <philipacamaniac> I'm tempted to throw out my $400 ATI card for a $50 nvidia card, just so I can have compositing and rendering at the same time
[09:47] <KaiL_> not really
[09:48] <rift-> oh composite extension support sucks with this ati
[09:48] <rift-> i cant even enable it
[09:48] <monchy> or just sell your ati card in the paper for a few hundred bucks ;p
[09:48] <KaiL_> accellerated xrender is extrem unstable on nvidia
[09:48] <rift-> it was slow with the nvidia, but it doesnt work at all with ati
[09:48] <philipacamaniac> yes, by throw out, I mean sell on ebay
[09:48] <philipacamaniac> well, it doesn't work at all on ATI... oh well
[09:49] <philipacamaniac> how do those macoids do it?
[09:49] <monchy> mm 6800 ultra, if i only had the cash for one
[09:50] <Alex-RM-UK> Hi guys
[09:50] <Alex-RM-UK> I think I may switched back to Windows :'(
[09:50] <rift-> KaiL_, you got fglrx?
[09:50] <KaiL_> ...for which a free and WORKING driver exists :)
[09:50] <KaiL_> rift-: nop, the "radeon" driver
[09:50] <KaiL_> Alex-RM-UK: y?
[09:50] <philipacamaniac> Alex-RM-UK: Beware the power of the Dark Side
[09:51] <monchy> oh i'm happy with my radeon card too, been good to me
[09:51] <firasR> philipacamaniac:  hehehe :)
[09:51] <laser_tk> yup, Alex-RM-UK, why?
[09:51] <rift-> ya why no 3d driver
[09:51] <Alex-RM-UK> Well, I love Linux and all, it's really nice. But it's just not very pratical for what I sue a PC for
[09:51] <KaiL_> means?
[09:51] <Alex-RM-UK> I do LOADS of graphics work with Photoshop, Imageready, 3D studio max, Maya
[09:51] <philipacamaniac> Okay, sounds like a dual-boot candidate to me
[09:52] <Alex-RM-UK> Photoshop doesnt run properly, open GL problems makes brushing slo
[09:52] <Alex-RM-UK> slow*
[09:52] <Alex-RM-UK> yeh I am dual booting
[09:52] <Alex-RM-UK> yeh Gimp is very good. Blender is not what I need to use at work though
[09:52] <philipacamaniac> hmm, that didn't work out, but you get the idea
[09:53] <Alex-RM-UK> and plus I dont think Vray and Brazil work in Blender do they?
[09:53] <KaiL_> philipacamaniac: normally this is hopeless. Real professionals normally don't even switch to new versions, because that breaks their workflow ;)
[09:54] <philipacamaniac> Yeah, the best argument is to say: do you design/media work on your PowerMac
[09:54] <KaiL_> philipacamaniac: no, best is "stay there, what you are used to" in such situations
[09:54] <KaiL_> ...as long as there's nothing a lot better on any other OS
[09:54] <Alex-RM-UK> But hey, maybe one day there will be better support - equal suport for Windows AND Linux, so I can have the great OS of Linux, with the apps of Windows
[09:55] <Alex-RM-UK> and I miss my surround sound :P ^^
[09:55] <philipacamaniac> Okay, I'll give you that... Windows is still on my laptop for pro audio related work
[09:55] <KaiL_> Alex-RM-UK: which ubuntu we already made a big stell forward in compatibility
[09:55] <KaiL_> no surround? why not?
[09:55] <Alex-RM-UK> I know, I love Kubuntu, and will continue to use it now and then
[09:56] <Alex-RM-UK> not sure, cant get it to work with my sound card
[09:56] <KaiL_> which card?
[09:56] <Alex-RM-UK> when ever I try, I get a rather loud painfull high pitched buz coming from ym speakers
[09:56] <Alex-RM-UK> Sound Blaster live 5.1! 
[09:56] <philipacamaniac> ugh
[09:57] <rift-> em10k
[09:57] <rift-> module
[09:57] <KaiL_> hmm, not that I know about problems
[09:57] <Alex-RM-UK> Am using ;-)
[09:57] <rift-> atleast it was in the past
[09:57] <Alex-RM-UK> I have sound working. just not surround
[09:57] <rift-> use alsamixer
[09:57] <Alex-RM-UK> tried, 
[09:57] <rift-> and change your settings
[09:58] <rift-> don't you need something plugged into all jacks for surround on a sblive 5.1?
[09:58] <KaiL_> I know, that I have it running with my Audigy2 - same driver...
[09:58] <rift-> like center channel into green etc
[09:59] <KaiL_> as he has it running on windows, that shouldn't be the problem :)
[10:05] <Alex-RM-UK> Well, I'm off to see what trouble Windows will bring for me :( 
[10:05] <Balu> good luck :)
[10:05] <Alex-RM-UK> I'll need it ^^
[10:05] <Alex-RM-UK> cya 
[10:22] <Ker_durruti> jolas
[10:22] <Mirkus> ciao a tutti
[10:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> are there any plans to build an i686 iso of kubuntu...it really would be great
[10:26] <Blissex> LuNaTiK^GuY: whats the point?
[10:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> to make it snappier.....since i run a new machine...i'd luv it if it was a bit snappier
[10:27] <monchy> just get the i686 optimized kernel
[10:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and wot about all the base packages?
[10:28] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: i'm thinking it would take a lot of work to recompile so many packages for the i686 arch.  that's why distros like gentoo, sourcemage, lfs exist
[10:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but ubuntu/kubuntu is one of the only distro's i found to take user friendliness very very seriously
[10:30] <duende> honestly, i don't personally see much of a 'snappiness' difference between i386 compiled distros and others
[10:30] <duende> i'm using ubuntu now after coming from gentoo, and it's pretty much the same
[10:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> have u tried Yoper?
[10:30] <duende> yip
[10:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ...and?
[10:30] <duende> meh
[10:31] <duende> i installed it, played with it for a bit, uninstalled it
[10:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u didnt like it?
[10:31] <duende> i'm like that with most distros, i like to try them out
[10:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> me too
[10:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got lots of burned cd's ;)
[10:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but kubuntu is just...so CLEAN
[10:31] <duende> well, not that i didn't like it, it's just that i couldn't see myself using it for too long without getting bored with it
[10:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the eye candy is great...its easy to use
[10:32] <duende> i went from  redhat -> debian -> suse -> gentoo -> ubuntu as my main distros
[10:32] <duende> i spent the most time with debian
[10:32] <duende> that's why i like ubuntu so much
[10:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> another thing i mite be misinformed about...so i'd rather ask...I'm running a P4 3.00 with 1gb of corsair ram...yadda yadda...a very powerful rig....and i'd luv to see Linux be quicker than my WinXP
[10:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> any way of helping me do that?
[10:33] <kay> the apps that benefit from higher than i386 are having that in the packages
[10:33] <kay> btw, the realility is that everything is compiled 486 even on Debian, doesn't run on 386 anymore
[10:34] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: you can always recompile your debian packages yourself
[10:34] <kay> But for ls, cp or even KDE you won't see the difference from the target processor
[10:34] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: there should be a ton of guides out there for it
[10:34] <kay> I had a an automatic recompile of all my installed packages once
[10:34] <duende> no difference?
[10:34] <kay> I would upgrade, take it from debian
[10:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i did read guides...but i'm a beginner trying out distros...and i always mess things up when i try to do something big :(
[10:35] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: that's the only way to learn
[10:35] <kay> Then, have that background deamon build everything not yet built with my gcc.wrapper
[10:35] <duende> i break my system all the time
[10:35] <kay> it was fun to do, but no difference at all
[10:35] <duende> i've been using linux since probably 98, and i still break stuff
[10:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i've been using linux since probably 98, and i still break stuff -> IC :)
[10:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> then i aint stupid :)
[10:36] <duende> nope
[10:36] <kay> duende: If you achieve that without being root, bravo :p
[10:36] <duende> it's a constant learning experience
[10:36] <duende> kay: i ain't that good
[10:36] <kay> If you want, and I enjoy the learning too
[10:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and i got this bet with my buddies to show them Linux is cool
[10:36] <duende> although, using ubuntu has got my sub-consiously typing sudo before every command
[10:36] <duende> it's scary
[10:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and Kubuntu would do great...if only a little bit quicker
[10:36] <kay> But you can just settle and be done
[10:37] <kay> duende: Do sudo -i
[10:37] <duende> yeah, i do sometimes
[10:37] <duende> but,  most times i only use sudo for one command then close the shell
[10:37] <LuNaTiK^GuY> also,...dont take this as a joke....but i keep reading about advantages of linux (any kind of linux) over windows..and many ppl say its "faster"....in what way do they mean it?
[10:37] <kay> I never close things 
[10:38] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: you know how long it takes to reboot a computer?
[10:38] <kay> If you had a web server, it were faster on Linux
[10:38] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: you don't have to in linux :)
[10:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok reboot.....my winXp would take.....lets say 1 minute
[10:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> to reboot and go back to windows
[10:38] <kay> If you had a file server, even for windows boxes, it were faster on Linux (samba)
[10:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and wot about a desktop user?
[10:39] <duende> yeah, when it comes to server-side stuff, linux is way faster then using, say, win2k-adv server
[10:39] <kay> Unfortunately, for KDE, we can't say it is faster
[10:39] <kay> Programs on Linux in C++ started horribly slow
[10:39] <duende> although, it is much better then years ago
[10:39] <duende> remember 1.x   *shudders*
[10:39] <kay> The thing is, ever Linux desktop release gets faster
[10:39] <kay> Every Windows one got slower
 The thing is, ever Linux desktop release gets faster -> this is true...i've noticed it
[10:40] <kay> Take Longhorn and Ubuntu 7.04 and it will have long overtaken 
[10:40] <kay> It is improving on all levels
[10:40] <kay> gcc is compiling C++ code better
[10:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> WinXP SP2 does boot fast though....its faster than Win2k i thinl
[10:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> *think
[10:40] <kay> The linker loads it faster
[10:40] <kay> Qt is less bloated with every release
[10:40] <duende> Windows cheats on their loading process
[10:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> pre-linking?
[10:40] <kay> KDE is optimized in the critical paths with every release
[10:41] <kay> LuNaTiK^GuY: That and something new in g++ 4.0
[10:41] <kay> LuNaTiK^GuY: Previously, many things were exported on Linux that were not ever used, it took a long time to start that
[10:41] <duende> i like the fact now tho, that opening up Konq in kde is just as quick as opening up IE in windows
[10:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> now a general question: Konq or Firefox?
[10:41] <kay> LuNaTiK^GuY: Now, for KDE and QT they just say what is used on the outside...
[10:41] <uniq> prelink isn't new in 4.0.
[10:41] <kay> That makes startup quicker
[10:42] <monchy> konq for me
[10:42] <uniq> lunatik^guy: i like konq better.. it's faster.
[10:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> faster to load?
[10:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> or faster to browse?
[10:42] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: my opinion on that subject is this:  konq for quick websites, loading quick, blah.  firefox for sites that konq doesn't support well enough
[10:42] <kay> I mean visibility in g++ 4.0
[10:42] <uniq> i keep firefox for broken sites.
[10:42] <kay> That removes a lot of what needs to be done at program start
[10:42] <duende> like, gmail for example, i use firefox for that.  and other sites that khtml chokes on
[10:42] <monchy> my beef is that i've seen firefox take up to 120mb of my memory lol
[10:43] <kay> Konqueror has a menu entry to load the same page in other browser
[10:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i guess u all know ho to tweak firefox... (goes red)
[10:43] <kay> That makes it posed well for primary browser
[10:43] <kay> Not at all, LuNaTiK^GuY, I use Konqui for about everything
[10:43] <uniq> that goes for me too.
[10:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> about:config in firefox address bar
[10:43] <kay> It is just looking better
[10:44] <duende> me three
[10:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u can tweak there
[10:44] <kay> the pages read crystal clear
[10:44] <duende> but, like i said, i use firefox for some sites that khtml chokes on
[10:44] <monchy> what do you guys use for e-mail? kmail, evolution, thunderbird?
[10:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> konq is great for local browsing too
[10:44] <kay> I don't bother to two much for using it like 1 time a week
[10:44] <duende> monchy: i use kmail inside of kontact for my imap server
[10:44] <kay> e.g. when I need that map site
[10:45] <kay> I use kmail, but it hurts
[10:45] <kay> I recommend evolution at work
[10:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> does the standard kubuntu kernel support SMP?
[10:45] <kay> Does Exchange on Ubuntu, does filter on Imap and stuff
[10:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is it switched on
[10:45] <kay> The standard kernel probably not, but the installer may pick SMP kernel if it finds it
[10:46] <kay> I am still waiting for the Kmail with IMAP filtering
[10:46] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Hyperthreading is a form of SMP rite?
[10:46] <kay> I only use it, because I am in love with consistent look of KDE
[10:46] <kay> yes, it is
[10:47] <duende> kay: me too, i love how everything fits together nicely.  especially linking my irc users with their addressbook entries in my egroupware server
[10:47] <duende> for some reason though i can't link kopete in with it
[10:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u like kopete? i prefer gaim for some reason....it looks better
[10:48] <duende> it does
[10:48] <duende> well, i actually like amsn better then either, but it's msn only
[10:48] <duende> but, kopete just fits well
[10:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yes aMSN is good...(for msn only)
[10:48] <kay> Integration in KDE programs is a power of its own
[10:49] <kay> I find myself using the second best program, because it works like the others
[10:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so what do u suggest i should do: install only kde-core
[10:49] <duende> the day i discovered what dcop was, it was like opening up a new world
[10:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and then download and compile programs from source?
[10:49] <kay> LuNaTiK^GuY: Why that?
[10:49] <kay> LuNaTiK^GuY: What do you want to achieve?
[10:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> to compile for my architecture... 
[10:49] <duende> LuNaTiK^GuY: it's not advisable to mix a binary and source system, unless you have to
[10:50] <kay> If he uses apt source --build it is the same thing
[10:50] <kay> do apt-get build-dep kdepim
[10:50] <duende> hrm, true
[10:50] <kay> apt-get source --build kdepim
[10:50] <kay> Then, make sure the gcc it finds, does some tricks to supply optimization parameters that you believe in
[10:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm not on linux rite now....but i'll keep these logs handy..
[10:51] <kay> That will give you nice .deb packages that you can install
[10:51] <kay> They will even be replaced all nicely when you install newer ones
[10:51] <kay> It worked then and will work now
[10:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ic
[10:51] <kay> To save yourself from trouble, compile in a chroot
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'll c wot i can do without hogging up my system :)
[10:52] <kay> debootstrap is your friend
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> erm......remember i'm a Beginner lol
[10:52] <duende> either way, i still don't think you'll notice a difference.  i only recompile packages when there's options missing that i want
[10:52] <kay> Well, prefix everything with nice
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> chroot....
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i think i'll stick to binary packages for now
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> (grin)
[10:53] <duende> good idea :)
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> can i just install kde-core....and then select and download only the packages i want?
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got this obsession with clean stuff
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> one media player, one/two browsers, one ftp client, one editor etc etc
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont want to loose myself in choice....like what happened on mepis
[10:54] <duende> yeah, i'm pretty sure you can do that
[10:55] <duende> i haven't tried it in ubuntu, but i'm pretty sure it's possible, provided you allow for dependancies to resolve
[10:55] <LuNaTiK^GuY> knaptic takes care of that rite?
[10:55] <duende> yip
[10:55] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[10:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> whats the difference between 'su' and 'sudo'?
[10:56] <duende> su you need the root password
[10:56] <kay> su log you in
[10:56] <kay> sudo works through a deamon somehow
[10:56] <duende> by using sudo, the admin can determine who can have access to certain root-only commands
[10:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots a deamon?
[10:56] <duende> a service
[10:56] <kay> Forget what I said :p
[10:56] <duende> and background service, like apache
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> do i need it for desktop use for now?
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[10:57] <duende> what? sudo?
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ye
[10:57] <duende> yes
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> to do wot?
[10:57] <duende> you need sudo in order to use k/synaptic
[10:57] <duende> and do any other administrative tasks on your computer
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> isnt that usually done with su?
[10:58] <duende> you don't set a root password on ubuntu by default, you have to use sudo
[10:58] <duende> it's 'considered' safer
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so i install kubuntu
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> then wot?
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> go to shell
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and type 'sudo'
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and then wot?
[10:58] <duende> lol
[10:58] <duende> after kubuntu is installed, that's it.  whenever you need to do an administrative task inside KDE, it'll ask you for your password
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm a total Microsoftified person :(
[10:59] <duende> if you're going into console, and you want to execute a command that requires root, you use sudo instead.  for example, to edit your hosts file you would use "sudo nano /etc/hosts" rather then going 'su' and then running nano
[10:59] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ohhhh iccccc
[10:59] <LuNaTiK^GuY> that explains it ;)
[11:00] <duende> sudo will then ask for your password, and you put in your USER password to basically 'confirm' that you are that user
[11:00] <duende> users that have access to sudo are determined by the 'visudo' command
[11:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok then....should be trivial :)
[11:00] <duende> yip
[11:00] <duende> nothing to it
[11:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> now....Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[11:00] <duende> well, one and the same
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is it just the GUI choice?
[11:01] <duende> you install ubuntu, then you install kubuntu-desktop
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but why is Ubuntu the no.1 on distrowatch.com
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and ubuntu not close?
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> *kubuntu
[11:01] <duende> cause, kubuntu is a part of ubuntu, not a totally seperate entity
[11:01] <duende> as far as i know
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the should add points then :)
[11:02] <duende> heh, i'm only new to ubuntu as well, i've ony been running it for a couple of weeks
[11:02] <duende> when hoary came out, however long ago that was
[11:02] <monchy> can't wait for breezy
[11:02] <duende> what are the release names from?
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> breezy? ie
[11:03] <duende> yah
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i meant: wots breezy?
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[11:04] <duende> omg, i just went to install something and i typed "emerge"
[11:04] <monchy> name of the next release
[11:04] <monchy> breezy badger
[11:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> 6.0?
[11:04] <monchy> 5.10 i think
[11:04] <blueyed> LuNaTiK^GuY: it's the development branch.
[11:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> anyobdy here tried Lunar Linux?
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> they claim its easier than gentoo
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> although i wouldnt want to try it for sure!
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i like ready set up stuff :)
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> if windows was free........what would u guys choose for ur desktop use....?
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> day to day office work, browsing, email, some gaming.....
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nothing big
[11:06] <monchy> still linux
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and reasons?
[11:07] <monchy> it can do everything windows does, except better
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> example?
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> dont get me wrong..i'm just curious
[11:08] <monchy> well i'm still new, but i like the filesystem over NTFS
[11:08] <monchy> using reiserfs btw
[11:09] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots different from a desktop users point of view?
[11:09] <monchy> different between the filesystems?
[11:10] <monchy> or overall
[11:10] <LuNaTiK^GuY> advantages that u think are important to a normal day to day user
[11:10] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the differences i know about.....
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> resierfs may be better for HUGE filesystems etc etc....but to a guy with an 80gb hdd who uses 10 apps at most
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots the real difference whether he uses NTFS or ReiserFs?
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> btw: i'm only getting opinions for a tiny assignment i'm working on
[11:12] <duende> anyone know how to auto-execute commands on kde startup?  i want to start two daemons that are user-based
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lets talk software....is Office 2003 visually more appealing than Open Office?
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> duende: dont ask me ;)
[11:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> a Free MacOS...or Linux? (this is a tough one hopefully)
[11:17] <uniq> lunatik^guy: linux, i have a mac without macos and i'm proud of it.
[11:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> WOW!!!
[11:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> why do u hate macos so much?
[11:18] <uniq> duende: make a start.sh file in ~/.kde/Autostart/ with the commands you'd like to execute.
[11:18] <uniq> I don't hate macos. I just like kubuntu more.
[11:18] <duende> uniq: k, tnx
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> mac os or windows ;)??
[11:18] <uniq> macos
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> both free
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :) :)
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok ok now we agree
[11:18] <uniq> windows is useless to me.
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot about gaming?
[11:19] <uniq> i don't do games.
[11:19] <uniq> ok.. i do a little kmahjongg
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ohhhhhhhh
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> if u had to game
[11:19] <uniq> then i'd by a xbox or playstation or something.
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> xobx?
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[11:20] <uniq> some console, don't know which is the best.
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u hate windows that much? is ther nothing which u can like about it?
[11:20] <monchy> xbox 360 is what i'd get
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nothing wotsoever :)
[11:21] <uniq> well, windows with cygwin is somehow useable.. but very limited.
[11:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> cygwin?
[11:22] <uniq> .com
[11:22] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot is it ? (this is embarassing)
[11:22] <uniq> it's a linux environment for windows.
[11:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> should i find that a tad paradoxal?
[11:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[11:23] <uniq> i'll correct that to 'linux-like'
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> btw just an observation
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i know this IS open source
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but shouldnt linux distro's close in a little bit instead of opening up to hundreds?
[11:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and focus more on battling windows on the desktop?
[11:30] <uniq> why? :)
[11:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont know....more focus on killer apps mite convince more ppl to join the linux side
[11:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> giving open office a facelift will help
[11:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and increase its bootup time
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> other than that open office is fine
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> internet browser...linux already wins
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot else?........
[11:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> looks are on par with mac....way ahead of windows....
[11:38] <morten> Aloha
[11:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hi
[11:39] <uniq> lunatik^guy: openoffice 2 is on it's way.. looking good.
[11:40] <KaiL> uniq: way faster then 1.1?
[11:40] <uniq> i don't use office applications often.. but now i'm doing a psychology paper in openoffice. thinking of doing it in latex though.
[11:40] <uniq> kail: starts faster.. it still feels a bit slow to me.
[11:40] <uniq> it's not koffice-fast.
[11:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but k-office lags some festures :(
[11:41] <uniq> sure.
[11:41] <KaiL> "starts faster" as in only 1min50 after 2min before?
[11:41] <KaiL> or <1min now? ;)
[11:41] <uniq> <1min :)
[11:41] <KaiL> on a system, which tool >2min with 1.1?
[11:42] <KaiL> took
[11:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot makes it start so slow?
[11:42] <KaiL> LuNaTiK^GuY: size
[11:42] <KaiL> should be the biggest binary in the unix world
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> size?
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot makes it so large?
[11:44] <KaiL> don't ask me
[11:45] <uniq> oo2-writer: 16 sec. oo1.1-writer: 22 sec.
[11:45] <uniq> on my laptop.
[11:45] <KaiL> not that much better
[11:46] <uniq> no, but it helps.
[11:46] <LuNaTiK^GuY> quite better for a laptop though
[11:46] <KaiL> maybe it can be even better with some more agressive optimisations
[11:46] <uniq> maybe.
[11:46] <KaiL> on laptops the disk is normally a lot slower than on desktops
[11:47] <KaiL> other parts aren't that much slower
[11:47] <KaiL> now somebody should try on a desktop
[11:47] <uniq>  Timing buffered disk reads:   72 MB in  3.05 seconds =  23.61 MB/sec
[11:48] <uniq> for my laptop.
[11:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i had read something on a site...that OO can be tweaked from the inside...to partially load upon boot up or something
[11:48] <uniq> well.. i should go to bed now. more psychology reading/writing tomorrow.
[11:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nitey :)
[11:48] <uniq> (it's so boring)
[11:48] <_jackson_> hi
[11:49] <uniq> gnite.
[11:49] <_jackson_> ive got a  quick question if anyonehas the time
[11:49] <KaiL> tell us
[11:49] <_jackson_> i've just installed newest kubuntu, first time ive ever used linux, and i tried to connect to kopete but get an error through the msn
[11:50] <KaiL> known bug
[11:50] <_jackson_> i checked the kopete app homepage and downloaded the newest version which has a bug fixed that was causing probs with msn msnger connections,
[11:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Yoper OO boots up in around 8 seconds
[11:50] <_jackson_> but now ive got the new version on my desktop as a zip file and don't know how to install it
[11:51] <KaiL> there's a Version 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu2.1 somewhere ;)
[11:51] <KaiL> that fixes this bug...
[11:51] <KaiL> afaik you can get it with the integrated update tool (kynaptic)
[11:52] <KaiL> I only wonder, why the server doesn't show it
[11:52] <KaiL> uhm, yes, there it is
[11:53] <_jackson_> i can get it through kynaptic?
[11:53] <KaiL> yes
[11:53] <KaiL> there are 3 big buttons in kynaptic...
[11:54] <_jackson_> cool i think i did it
[11:54] <_jackson_> should i uninstall the one that is on the pc already, or just reinstall the file on top?
[11:55] <KaiL> just update
[11:55] <KaiL> (means here "install")
[11:55] <_jackson_> cool
[11:55] <KaiL> it automatically removes the old before
[11:55] <KaiL> that works with every app :)
[11:55] <_jackson_> ok, thanks a lot.  i dont think im gonna regret getting out of windows :D
[11:56] <KaiL> even better: the second button up there marks every update avainable for installation!
[11:56] <KaiL> and the right one finally installed
[11:56] <KaiL> installes..
[11:57] <_jackson_> yeah, its pretty wicked, i must say as a casual pc user i would never have considered using linux.  it just sounded too intimidating
[11:57] <_jackson_> but it seems very user friendly and capable of much more advanced use than the other OS
[11:58] <KaiL> the problem about such tools is, that we don't talk enough about them
[12:00] <_jackson_> well thanks a lot Kail, have a nice day ;)
[12:00] <_jackson_> bye
[12:00] <KaiL> that's what I like - happy users :)
[12:00] <arthurb> Is it default behavior that kubuntu install sees my cdrom drive as hdb ?
[12:01] <KaiL> arthurb: if you have it as primary slave, every linux will see it there ;)