[12:13] <Riddell> seb128: how is Debian planning on handling the menu issue?
[12:13] <seb128> installing to /etc/gnome
[12:13] <Riddell> seb128: so ignoring /etc/xdg altogether?
[12:14] <seb128> and setting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS from gnome-session
[12:14] <Riddell> doesn't seem very elegant
[12:14] <seb128> why ?
[12:15] <seb128> renaming is not a good option
[12:15] <Riddell> that's true
[12:15] <seb128> you need to patch every single app usings the menus
[12:16] <seb128> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is documented by the spec and doesn't break the compatibility with any piece of code
[12:16] <seb128> and the standard /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu will be the Debian menu
[12:16] <seb128> so you can pick the Debian menu or the desktop one 
[12:17] <Riddell> ah hah
[12:17] <Amaranth> *boggle*
[12:17] <seb128> what?
[12:18] <Amaranth> /etc/gnome?
[12:18] <seb128> using /etc/xdg/gnome or /etc/gnome/xdg is the same no ?
[12:18] <seb128> that doesn't matter
[12:18] <seb128> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is a spec point
[12:18] <seb128> and can point to any folder, doesn't make a difference
[12:19] <Amaranth> yeah, but smeg is not going to work on debian
[12:19] <seb128> why ?
[12:19] <Amaranth> because they have the same name but are in different locations
[12:19] <seb128> it doesn't respect XDG_CONFIG_DIRS ?
[12:19] <Amaranth> they all get dumped in XDG_CONFIG_HOME/menus/
[12:19] <Amaranth> all the user .menu files, i mean
[12:19] <seb128> and ?
[12:20] <Amaranth> /etc/gnome/xdg/applications.menu and /etc/kde/xdg/applications.menu
[12:20] <Amaranth> both would be $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/menus/applications.menu
[12:20] <Amaranth> well, the real paths, but yeah
[12:20] <Amaranth> i left out menus/
[12:20] <seb128> I don't get the issue
[12:21] <seb128> you edit the GNOME menu with smeg
[12:21] <Amaranth> they overwrite each other
[12:21] <seb128> what happens?
[12:21] <Amaranth> on debian ~/.config/menus/applications.menu would be created
[12:21] <Amaranth> you edit the KDE menu with smeg, on debian ~/.config/menus/applications.menu would be created
[12:22] <seb128> bah, you are just saying that for an user, custom launcher are defined for both menus?
[12:22] <seb128> seems all right to me
[12:22] <Amaranth> no, i'm saying if they edit a GNOME menu then edit a KDE one the GNOME one gets wiped out
[12:22] <seb128> why ?
[12:22] <Amaranth> ...
[12:23] <Amaranth> because they both will get saved as ~/.config/menus/applications.menu
[12:23] <Amaranth> actually, it'll be worse than wiping it out
[12:23] <seb128> oh, right, that's the full menu
[12:23] <seb128> not only the changes
[12:23] <Amaranth> it'll basically dump the two together in weird ways
[12:23] <Amaranth> no, it's the changed
[12:23] <Amaranth> err, changes
[12:23] <seb128> is that the changes to merge?
[12:23] <Amaranth> yes
[12:23] <seb128> or the menu?
[12:23] <seb128> if that's the changes, that's fine
[12:24] <seb128> they can be merge with the current desktop menu
[12:24] <seb128> no?
[12:24] <Amaranth> actually, smeg will probably just end up with the debian menu at /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu and users will bitch at me
[12:24] <Amaranth> no
[12:25] <Amaranth> if they edit the GNOME one then edit the KDE one you'll get the KDE's one changes dumped into the GNOME menu
[12:25] <seb128> "dumped"?
[12:25] <seb128> you create a launcher for "emacs" by example
[12:25] <seb128> it's listed as a new item for editor
[12:25] <seb128> both GNOME and KDE menus will list it, no ?
[12:25] <Amaranth> that's not what i'm talking about
[12:26] <Amaranth> /etc/gnome/xdg/menus/applications.menu and /etc/kde/xdg/menus/applications.menu
[12:26] <Amaranth> both of these will be ~/.config/menus/applications.menu for the user changes
[12:26] <seb128> right
[12:26] <Amaranth> if you edit the GNOME menus with smeg this file gets created with <MergeFile> pointing to the gnome one and has changes to the gnome menu
[12:27] <Amaranth> if you then edit the kde menus with smeg this file gets editted and KDE changes added to it
[12:27] <seb128> kright
[12:27] <Amaranth> but <MergeFile> still points to the gnome one
[12:27] <Amaranth> and it will then have KDE and GNOME stuff in it
[12:29] <seb128> changing the .menu names is not good neither since it means to patch every app using them
[12:30] <Amaranth> this solution is worse
[12:30] <mdz> seb128: what do you think is the best way to handle https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7150 ?
[12:30] <seb128> which one?
[12:30] <Amaranth> seb128: /etc/gnome/xdg
[12:30] <mdz> seb128: we need some way to disable the locking at boot time
[12:31] <Amaranth> having gnome-applications.menu and kde-applications.menu but having applications-merged/ still work for both of them is the best solution, imo
[12:32] <seb128> mdz: thinking about it
[12:33] <mdz> seb128: perhaps a gconf key to disable the menu item?
[12:34] <azeem> if you add gconf keys, you could make it point out the location of XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as well
[12:34] <seb128> mdz: this key is /apps/panel/global/disable_lock_screen
[12:35] <seb128> mdz: but the issue is only the menu item?
[12:36] <seb128> ie, what happen if you close your laptop with the liveCD running, does it get locked?
[12:36] <seb128> azeem: speaking about what?
[12:38] <azeem> about the need to set XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as environment variable in gnome-session or so
[12:38] <azeem> but uhm, I haven't followed the discussion, so you'd better ignore me
[12:38] <seb128> azeem: the discussion is not about the variable, but the .menu file names
[12:40] <Amaranth> unless they have a different name they can't live side-by-side even if they are in different directories, due to the way the whole system works
[12:41] <Amaranth> actually...
[12:41] <Amaranth> if gnome-session sets $XDG_CONFIG_HOME too it just might work
[12:42] <seb128> discussion about it with Debian guy on #gnome-debian
[12:42] <seb128> that starts to be ugly
[12:42] <seb128> depending on environment variables is not really robust
[12:43] <Amaranth> the only other real option is having different names then
 the case of the user using both KDE and GNOME, and wanting different menus in both, is almost unsolvable
 are there *really* such users?
[12:44] <seb128> he has a point too
[12:45] <Amaranth> sure, but it's better to find a solution than just say it'll never happen
[12:46] <mdz> seb128: I can fix the lid problem by modifying the configuration file
[12:46] <mdz> seb128: the menu item is the only issue
[12:46] <tseng> Amaranth: why find a solution if there isnt a problem, though
[12:46] <seb128> mdz: the menu item has already a key, just set /apps/panel/global/disable_lock_screen
[12:46] <mdz> seb128: perfect, thanks
[12:46] <Amaranth> tseng: These files don't just go away when you stop using GNOME or whatever.
[12:46] <seb128> mdz: "gconftool-2 -s /apps/panel/global/disable_lock_screen true"
[12:46] <mdz> seb128: my next issue is that for LTSP I need to force xscreensaver to only blank (no graphics hacks)
[12:46] <seb128> with a "-t bool" 
[12:47] <Amaranth> tseng: If you've been using GNOME for a couple months and editting menus with smeg then decide you'd rather be a KDE user things will be broken.
[12:47] <Amaranth> If you try to use smeg with KDE, I mean.
[12:47] <seb128> that will learn you to no go away from GNOME :p
[12:48] <tseng> :D
[12:48] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:48] <Amaranth> seb128: What if they were a KDE user for a couple months and edited their menus with smeg then decided to switch to GNOME?
[12:48] <Amaranth> Once again, broken.
[12:49] <seb128> make a special case to smeg to make this one working :)
[12:49] <Amaranth> really broken, actually
[12:49] <Amaranth> because the menus will use ~/.config/menus/applications.menu and it merges the KDE one
[12:49] <Amaranth> so your GNOME menus are KDE menus
[12:49] <Amaranth> and the /etc/gnome/xdg/menus/applications.menu is completely ignored
[12:49] <Nafallo> hmm, router reboot, bbl.
[12:50] <Amaranth> seb128: I'm not adding any more hacks to work around broken implementations.
[12:50] <Amaranth> just set $XDG_CONFIG_HOME to ~/.config/gnome/ or ~/.config/kde/ and all is fixed
[12:52] <seb128> bah
[12:53] <tseng> Amaranth: er so what happenes to openbox and monodevelop in the same session
[12:53] <tseng> do i get ~/.config/gnome/openbox/rc.xml ?
[12:53] <seb128> Amaranth: atm Mandriva uses XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
[12:54] <Amaranth> not unless you're using gnome-session
[12:54] <tseng> well I am
[12:54] <tseng> and I use both those apps which use the XDG standard
[12:54] <tseng> please dont break them.
[12:54] <Amaranth> tseng: Ok, so the _only_ solutions are gnome-*.menu, kde-*.menu or just using the same menu in all DEs.
[12:54] <seb128> do they use applications.menu ?
[12:55] <tseng> no
[12:55] <seb128> does rename it to gnome-applications.menu break them ?
[12:55] <tseng> but he wants to set the whole directoy to something else than where my configs already are
[12:55] <Amaranth> tseng: I don't want to. I'm trying to figure out how to fix the problems Debian is trying to cause me.
[12:55] <tseng> heh
[12:55] <seb128> Debian is not trying to cause any problem to you
[12:56] <mdz> ogra: are you around?
[01:05] <srbaker> hrm
[01:06] <srbaker> i want update-manager to give me the changelog entry.
[01:06] <srbaker> looks like i might ahve some hacking to do
[01:06] <tseng> thats what the bottom panel is for
[01:06] <tseng> ie the Changes tab
[01:07] <Amaranth> sure, but that's always empty
[01:07] <tseng> because its never on the server
[01:07] <tseng> its not a matter of adding any code to the client.
[01:52] <mdke> hey Amaranth did you hear smeg is in gentoo portage
[01:53] <Amaranth> mdke: yeah, the author of pyxdg is a gentoo dev, he did it
[01:54] <mdke> awesome
[01:54] <mdke> i'm gonna try it
[02:22] <Nafallo> *sigh* someone has broken usb-storage :-P
[03:01] <daniels_> Nafallo: pong
[03:02] <Nafallo> daniels: ahh, I asked fabbione before. it's solved :-)
[03:05] <tseng> daniels: dbus?
[03:07] <daniels> tseng: *cough*
[03:41] <jsgotangco> morning everyone
[03:41] <tseng> hi
[03:56] <jdub> mdz: ping
[03:57] <mdz> jdub: pong
[03:57] <jdub> mdz: so, php4-mysql -> doesn't pass security review?
[03:58] <mdz> I know of no reason why it can't be in main
[03:58] <mdz> I think infinity based php4-universe on what happened to be in universe at the time
[03:58] <jdub> right
[03:58] <jdub> that's a pretty crucial package, really should be in main
[03:58] <mdz> and it's been in universe since warty
[03:58] <mdz> yeah, it should be
[03:59] <mdz> all the best php4 crapware uses it
[03:59] <daniels> right
[03:59] <jdub> definitely can't diddle with main/universe in hoary? :)
[03:59] <mdz> no, not in hoary
[03:59] <daniels> if mysql's in main, php4-mysql should be so too
[03:59] <jsgotangco> i agree
[04:02] <daniels> the only reason it was in universe was for b-ds, not security
[04:20] <blueyed> will breezy have php5 packages?
[04:25] <mdz> jdub: since you're timezone compatible, can you relay that to infinity?
[04:25] <mdz> blueyed: yes
[04:43] <jdub> mdz: ok
[04:43] <jdub> mdz: now is actually a very good time though
[04:50] <mdz> jdub: yeah, and so of course I'm on my way out
[05:54] <wasabi> X in breezy fixed?
[05:55] <fabbione> morning
[06:03] <wasabi> interesting. there is no breezy pbuilder script for my ppc box.
[06:04] <wasabi> n/m!
[06:15] <bob2> so, just how terribly gross is supermount and submount?
[06:16] <Lathiat> last check supermount worked but was a bit 'wrong'
[06:42] <stuNNed> hi
[06:42] <stuNNed> i stopped getting mail from the -devel list, is it down or?
[06:43] <Amaranth> it could just be quiet
[06:49] <Keybuk> meh
[06:49] <Keybuk> so now, the version of dpkg I build in sid chroot is uninstallable on hoary
[06:49] <Keybuk> and the version I build on hoary is uninstallable on sid
[06:49] <Keybuk> ...sometimes I see Ian's point :p
[06:50] <schweeb> Keybuk: hey, at least sarge is out, so they can start making some more drastic changes
[06:50] <schweeb> not that it'll change much of anything
[06:50] <Keybuk> actually, sarge released with libc6 2.3.2.ds1-22
[06:51] <Keybuk> hoary only had 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu13
[06:51] <Keybuk> and there's a shlibs difference in there
[06:51] <Keybuk> so stuff built on sarge won't install on hoary \o/
[06:51] <schweeb> nice
[06:52] <Keybuk> and firefox is busted :-/
[06:52] <Keybuk> nothing to do with shlibs, hoary or sargfe
[06:52] <Keybuk> just it's busted
[06:55] <daniels> if it crashes all the time, try disabling greasemonkey
[06:55] <Keybuk> wasn't that, just some random XUL corruption
[06:55] <Keybuk> download manager won't work, password manager, etc
[06:57] <daniels> oh, right
[06:57] <daniels> yeah, that's definitely firefox
[06:57] <Keybuk> I blame thom
[06:58] <Amaranth> daniels: thanks, maybe that'll help
[06:58] <Amaranth> i don't even use greasemonkey
[06:58] <Amaranth> but it's installed and firefox dies randomly
[06:59] <daniels> if I go to theage.com.au and middle-click four links with greasemonkey enabled, it'll crash
[06:59] <daniels> sometimes on the first, sometimes it takes all four
[06:59] <daniels> but I can open as many as I like without it, and it's fine
[07:00] <Amaranth> even if firefox goes down more than <insert dirty joke> i just reopen it and keep working
[07:00] <Lathiat> heh
[07:00] <Lathiat> i like that in epiphany
[07:00] <Lathiat> comes free :)
[07:00] <daniels> i did the same, but it's still annoying
[07:03] <Keybuk> well, purging firefox and my config, and reinstalling fixed it
[07:21] <tepsipakki> hmm, the kernel update-notifier probably shouldn't alarm the user if the running kernel version has not been updated, but another
[07:21] <tepsipakki> ?
[07:31] <mdz> tepsipakki: it shouldn't alarm them, but it should notify them that they should reboot in order to update their kernel
[07:32] <tepsipakki> that's what i meant
[07:33] <tepsipakki> ok, maybe a normal user doesn't have more than one kernel version at a time..
[07:53] <fabbione> mdz: we don't have much choise in that respect without a lot of hackery in kernel postinst
[07:53] <fabbione> mdz: probably the easiest is to make a better notification message..
[08:08] <tepsipakki> fabbione: what I actually meant was that if I have two different kernel versions installed (in this case 2.6.10/2.6.12) and the one that is not running got updated, I still am told to reboot ;)
[08:09] <tepsipakki> minor thing though
[08:11] <fabbione> tepsipakki: yes i understood the problem. 
[08:11] <fabbione> and the issue is that to compare the running kernel with the one in upgrade phase is a lot of hackery 
[08:12] <fabbione> so my suggestion is to change the notification message to be more clear
[08:12] <tepsipakki> isn't that already done at least if you make a kernel of your own with kernel-package?
[08:12] <tepsipakki> I mean, it warns if you are updating a running kernel
[08:12] <tepsipakki> or at least it used to in debian
[08:13] <fabbione> partially yes
[08:13] <Zomb> tepsipakki: I cannot remeber any signle time where this message has helped me in any way. Never.
[08:13] <Zomb> s,single,case,
[08:14] <tepsipakki> zomb: you mean the warning and the "do you _really_ want to continue updating" -message?
[08:15] <fabbione> we did shut that off
[08:15] <Zomb> tepsipakki: yes, that one. Makes as much sense as saying "you are crossing the road on green, are you really really really really ... sure, it has been green when you arrived, ..."
[08:15] <fabbione> we only really yell and scream if you are trying to remove the running kernel
[08:15] <tepsipakki> zomb: yeah, true ;)
[08:17] <tepsipakki> the more I think of it, the more I'm ok with the current way it works, because when a normal user updates the distro the kernel either gets critical updates or a totally new version that replaces the old one..
[08:18] <tepsipakki> so it really doesn't matter much if the breezers see that message a few times more
[08:18] <tepsipakki> (breezer = a wacko running breezy)
[08:18] <tepsipakki> (like me)
[08:22] <Lathiat> daniels: so, moving X to autotools was a good idea right? :)
[09:03] <infinity> daniels, jdub, mdz : Part of the ServerTeam spec for Breezy was to get all the supportable PHP extensions re-seeded to main.
[09:05] <daniels> Lathiat: i think so
[09:05] <Lathiat> daniels: :)
[09:05] <daniels> libx11's compile is completely stuffed though
[09:05] <Lathiat> daniels: does X in breezy "work" yet?
[09:06] <daniels> Lathiat: sudo ln -s /usr/bin/mkfontscale /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale, and yes
[09:07] <Lathiat> daniels: do all these symlinks break future upgrades? :)
[09:08] <daniels> Lathiat: not this one, no
[09:08] <daniels> well, the best solution, actually
[09:08] <daniels> edit /usr/bin/mkfontdir, change /usr/X11R6/bin to /usr/bin
[09:10] <mdz> and then run it on all the fontdirs
[09:10] <mdz> depending on when you upgraded, possibly
[09:10] <Lathiat> i think i'll just wait a little more :)
[09:54] <bob2> is it just me or is podcasting stupidly overhyped?
[09:55] <\sh> podcasting is stupidly overhyped
[09:55] <Lathiat> indeed
[09:55] <bob2> it's just rss with urls to mp3/vorbis files, right?
[09:55] <Lathiat> nah no vorbis
[09:56] <Lathiat> cus ipod doesnt play it
[09:56] <Lathiat> it doesnt exist!
[09:56] <Lathiat> i do th esame thign for amateur internet tv shows
[09:56] <Lathiat> its not like its amazing :)
[09:56] <bob2> is there any relationship at all to "ipods" or did someone just go "ipod...casting, AWESOME.  oh wait, we'll get sued.  PODCASTING!"
[09:57] <Treenaks> bob2: no relation to ipods, other than a piece of software that /downloads/ the mp3 and puts in on your ipod
[09:57] <Treenaks> bob2: for macos
[09:57] <Treenaks> bob2: so, yes, I'd say it's massively over-hyped
[09:57] <bob2> hah
[10:05] <mpt> Roughly, podcasting is to audio files as shell scripts are to Unix
[10:08] <Treenaks> mpt: isn't it more like "audio blogging" (like "photo blogging") ?
[10:08] <mpt> Treenaks: That's a subset. Radio stations also use it, and radio stations don't regard themselves as Weblogs.
[10:09] <Treenaks> mpt: true, but they tend to use it for on-demand re-streaming of programs
[10:35] <koke> mvo: around?
[10:35] <koke> mvo: look at http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ARPServlet.tmp/servlet_153904.png
[10:36] <koke> mvo: or http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ , validate http://www.amedias.org/~koke/gaim.appinstall , graph only
[10:36] <koke> if there's any RDF guru in the room, help is welcome
[10:44] <mvo> koke: looking now
[10:47] <pitti> elmo: please sync libpg-perl and php4-pgsql from Sid
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: pin
[10:53] <pitti> g
[10:54] <Amaranth> mpt: as shell scripts are to Unix? there are too many of them that suck but when you find a good one you cherish it? :)
[10:54] <seb128> pitti: pong
[10:54] <seb128> pitti: got my mail?
[10:55] <mpt> Amaranth: No, as in they're an automation mechanism
[10:55] <Amaranth> seb128: are you doing the /etc/gnome/xdg move? i noticed you reverted the name change
[10:56] <seb128> Amaranth: please join #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org
[10:57] <mvo> koke: looks good so far
[11:00] <fabbione> does anybody remember how to print all the items after a certain item in awk?
[11:01] <fabbione> like: foo bar baz tla
[11:01] <fabbione> i want awk to print only all the entries AFTER bar (known as $2)
[11:02] <sladen> normally I'd just use 'cut'
[11:02] <fabbione> sladen: cut is not the best with whitespaces
[11:03] <fabbione> specially when you don't know what kind of whitespace can be in the file
[11:03] <fabbione> and how many
[11:03] <Kamion> I tend to use tr first to sort out the whitespace
[11:03] <Kamion> e.g. tr -s '\t' ' '
[11:04] <Kamion> actually probably tr -s ' ' '\t' to avoid having to use cut -d
[11:05] <fabbione> hmm ok
[11:06] <sladen> fabbione: what you appear to be doing is  sed -e 's/^(.*[ \t] *)//'  ?
[11:07] <sladen> or [^ \t] +[ \t] +
[11:09] <fabbione> sladen: basically i need parse a file similar to fstab
[11:10] <fabbione> where i have the first entry as a device, the second entry as a name and the rest are options
[11:10] <fabbione> but i want to grab all the options in one shot
[11:10] <fabbione> to pass the export command
[11:15] <pitti> fabbione: echo "hallo foo bar baz" | perl -ne '@a = split; print "@a[2..100] \n"'
[11:15] <infinity> fabbione : echo " foo bar baz tla" | awk '{n=3; while(n <= NF) {print $n; n++}}'
[11:15] <Kamion> you could use perl's autosplit if you're going to do that
[11:16] <pitti> right
[11:16] <Kamion> 
[11:16] <Kamion> er
[11:16] <Kamion> echo "hallo foo bar baz" | perl -alne 'print "@F[2..100] "'
[11:17] <fabbione> ok thanks :)
[11:17] <Kamion> or 2..$#F, better
[11:17] <Kamion> enough now? :)
[11:17] <fabbione> way too muc h:)
[11:17] <pitti> fabbione: C, use getpwent() (just to spam you a little further :-) )
[11:18] <fabbione> pitti: ehehe
[11:19] <fabbione> infinity: your solution is almost right :) except that print in awk adds \n
[11:22] <fabbione> for now the winner is....
[11:22] <fabbione> Kamion!
[11:22] <Kamion> aha
[11:22] <Kamion> pitti: I thought we'd agreed not to apply pkgstriptranslations to dpkg - or do I misremember?
[11:22] <Kamion> # dpkg -L dpkg | grep usr/share/locale
[11:22] <Kamion> # 
[11:23] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, odd, I asked lamont to blacklist it...
[11:23] <pitti> Kamion: I check that again with him
[11:23] <Kamion> infinity: do you know about the translations blacklist stuff?
[11:23] <pitti> infinity: ^ /etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf on the buildds
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: Hoary is alright at least, that's only breezy
[11:31] <Kamion> right, I should've said, yeah
[11:32] <infinity> pitti : Will fix in a few.  Thanks.
[11:35] <Kamion> elmo: please sync dpkg from experimental
[11:36] <elmo> kamion: is it going to BREAK THE WORLD(tm)? :p
[11:36] <pitti> maybe dpkg should be synced after fixing the pkgstriptranslations blacklist?
[11:37] <mdke> Simira, around?
[11:37] <Simira> mdke: yup
[11:37] <seb128> pitti: going to update the languagepacks?
[11:37] <mdke> that was quick
[11:37] <Kamion> elmo: includes our previous changes; it does change DEB_*_GNU_CPU to i486, which doko asked for I think
[11:37] <mdke> Simira, how is your shop going?
[11:37] <pitti> seb128: still no go from Rosetta...
[11:37] <seb128> pitti: grumpf, k
[11:37] <pitti> seb128: however, for breezy I can crank up my scripts gain
[11:37] <pitti> agian, even
[11:37] <Kamion> elmo: I think anything liable to be broken by that will already have been broken by the last BREAK THE WORLD though
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: it requires some manual work which was probably already done in Rosetta, but shouldn't take more than an hour
[11:38] <seb128> pitti: would be nice, some app have 0% of translation atm
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: alright, will schedule it
[11:38] <seb128> thanks
[11:38] <Simira> mdke: I've barely started planing it yet. I have no time for it before august, the earliest. And I don't have any idea about how to run a webshop, so I need to look up some things around it.
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: btw, you uploaded some gnome packages recently? let's see whether the POT extraction worked...
[11:38] <seb128> pitti: a bunch
[11:39] <Simira> mdke: I'm ordering a bunch of t-shirts soon, though. Hoping to bring them to Debconf, maybe
[11:39] <elmo> Kamion: done
[11:39] <elmo> pitti: done too
[11:39] <mdke> Simira, ooh, where do you order em?
[11:39] <seb128> pitti: it should works fine, I got a FTBFS because of a POTFILES.in listing a sourcefile not shipped with the tarball :p
[11:39] <pitti> elmo: merci
[11:39] <Simira> mdke: a Norwegian profiler bureau
[11:39] <seb128> that's sign it runs the pot generation :)
[11:39] <pitti> neat
[11:40] <mdke> Simira, oh gotcha
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: you uploaded gnome-panel, but not gnome-menus?
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/dload-strippedtar.txt
[11:40] <seb128> I uploaded both a couple of times
[11:40] <mdke> Simira, ok cool well good luck with it after august anyhow
[11:40] <infinity> pitti : Should it only be blacklisted in breezy, then?.. Not retroactively in old chroots, I assume.
[11:40] <pitti> infinity: it should be alright in hoary
[11:41] <pitti> infinity: can you please copy hoary's blacklist to breezy for now?
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: lemme try on gnome-menus
[11:41] <Kamion> elmo: hmm ... how about we make that dpkg from incoming, so that #312383 doesn't annoy us
[11:41] <mdke> Simira, maybe you can convince someone at canonical to give you a hand
[11:41] <Kamion> (he says, having done a baz update)
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: Warning: tarball gnome-menus_2.11.1.1-0ubuntu4_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: ^ is that the latest version?
[11:41] <seb128> yep
[11:41] <infinity> pitti : Hoary and breezy have the same blacklist.  Neither lists dpkg.
[11:42] <pitti> infinity: hum, then this was apparently just good luck.. can you please fix both then?
[11:42] <seb128> pitti: but gnome-menus has not C files translated
[11:42] <elmo> grr
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: btw, the list is not complete (see the error below)
[11:42] <seb128> pitti: the only translations here are .directory files
[11:42] <seb128> and 2 .py files
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: ah, right, so no gettext anyway?
[11:43] <seb128> it seems to use getting, a sec
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: oops, I should clean up my overrides
[11:45] <elmo> Kamion: done
[11:45] <Kamion> ta
[11:45] <infinity> pitti : Erm.  /etc/pkgstriptranslations is a conffile belonging to your package.  Why don't you just keep it up to date with the current list, and I can stop making changes to these conffiles altogether? :)
[11:46] <pitti> infinity: I can do that for my sake; can you please mail me the current version?
[11:47] <pitti> infinity: since security updates for dpkg are very unlikely, we can probably ignore hoary for now
[11:47] <jamesh> seb128: I was looking at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration a bit more, and I thought of one integration point that we didn't cover before: bug-buddy
[11:47] <seb128> jamesh: what about it ?
[11:48] <infinity> pitti : Nothing stopping an upload to hoary-updates too, but it's probably a non-issue.
[11:48] <jamesh> seb128: application crashes -> display bug buddy -> file bug in malone
[11:48] <infinity> pitti : Anyhow, mailed.
[11:48] <jamesh> (or some crash dump reporting launchpad component
[11:48] <pitti> thanks
[11:48] <seb128> jamesh: there is a spec running about automatic crash reporting too
[11:48] <pitti> infinity: so the next time the buildds are updated, you need to force the overwriting of the conffile?
[11:49] <infinity> pitti : If you rewrite it to use a static (non-conffile) list in /usr/share, then I won't have to make sure the conffiles get properly updated. :)
[11:49] <infinity> pitti : But I will babysit and make sure they all get updated properly anyway, yes.
[11:49] <tseng> is anyone getting mail from breezy-changes?
[11:49] <jamesh> seb128: okay.  Is that going to replace bug-buddy?
[11:49] <pitti> tseng: yes, works
[11:50] <tseng> pitti: k, i stopped getting sometime last night I think
[11:50] <seb128> jamesh: that's in discussion ... pitti's find the bug-buddy UI too complicated by example
[11:50] <tseng> might be all mail :/
[11:50] <pitti> tseng: hm, I didn't check that thoroughly
[11:51] <pitti> jamesh: well, the program it self is too big for our purposes, of course we could strip it down (but that would still be a fork)
[11:51] <pitti> jamesh: for my part I'd prefer a small pygtk app
[11:51] <jamesh> seb128/pitti: imo, it is good to separate crash dumps from actual bug reports, so it probably shouldn't just dump stuff directly into malone
[11:52] <pitti> jamesh: right
[11:52] <seb128> yeah
[11:53] <pitti> jamesh: we'll keep a separate db
[11:53] <pitti> jamesh: right now a prototype is at http://debcrash.piware.de
[11:53] <pitti> jamesh: this actually works already, but of course it's not used so far
[11:53] <jamesh> pitti: we might want it integrated with launchpad
[11:53] <infinity> pitti : Just ping me when the new stripstanslations is ready to go, so I can hit all the chroots and make sure things update sanely.
[11:53] <jamesh> pitti: to associate crash reports with bugs
[11:55] <pitti> jamesh: at least we should preprocess them and group crashes together by pacakge, version, and function the crash occurred in
[11:55] <jamesh> pitti: yep.
[11:57] <jamesh> pitti: have you seen the Microsoft crashdump software, or the mozilla Talkback (again, for Windows) apps?
[11:57] <pitti> jamesh: no
[11:58] <jamesh> pitti: The talkback app lets you enter a comment, email address and a URL
[11:58] <infinity> Epiphany has one too.
[11:58] <infinity> So, go crash epiphany to see it.
[11:58] <jamesh> pitti: and lets you see the data it's about to send, and exclude parts you don't want to send
[11:58] <Amaranth> isn't that what bug-buddy is?
[11:58] <infinity> (Not hard, there's a bug against firefox with a page that crashes it reproducibly)
[11:59] <jamesh> Amaranth: bug-buddy is half bug reporting and half crash reporting
[11:59] <pitti> jamesh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/crashrep-gui.png <- that's my current prototype; needs much beautification, but it shouldn't be more complicated than that
[11:59] <Lathiat> infinity: just ptrace it and write some random code over some page :)
[11:59] <shawarma> infinity: Or kill -11 `pidof epiphany` ? That should also to the trick.
[12:01] <jamesh> pitti: here's one of Talkback: http://www.czilla.cz/clanky/images/tb-06-talkback-4.png
[12:02] <Treenaks> jamesh: nice, works in SuSE here as well
[12:02] <pitti> jamesh: that looks nice. we can hide the details behind a button, but IMHO the user should always see what he reports
[12:02] <pitti> jamesh: i. e. environment variables and stack traces might contain sensitive information
[12:02] <jamesh> pitti: here's an official URL: http://www.mozilla.org/quality/qfa.html
[12:03] <pitti> jamesh: I think the idea of TB and my prototype is the same: a very easy one-step dialog
[12:03] <jamesh> pitti: the talkback code also sends potentially sensitive data: list of shares you're connected to, list of printers, processes currently running, etc
[12:03] <pitti> jamesh: bug-buddy has several pages, fetches info from some gnome db, etc, and is too big for us
[12:04] <jamesh> pitti: it also sends data about how long the process was running before it crashed, number of times you've run the program, system uptime, etc
[12:04] <pitti> jamesh: good idea, we should add that as well
[12:05] <jsgotangco> jdub, ping?
[12:07] <jamesh> pitti: I think it also does total runtime for all runs of a program -- can be useful to guess how bad a crash bug is
[12:08] <seb128> yeah
[12:08] <pitti> jamesh: well, I don't think we can add the total number of runs to the report, since we have to modify packages for that
[12:08] <jamesh> pitti: yeah.
[12:09] <pitti> jamesh: but we can add the uptime and the process uptime; still, the stack trace is certainly the most interesting piece anyway
[12:09] <pitti> infinity: ah, now I know why we made this a conffile...
[12:09] <pitti> infinity: the idea was to not enable stripping by default, it should only be enabled manually
[12:09] <infinity> pitti : So we can do rapid changes, or so it can be turned on/off?
[12:10] <pitti> infinity: but I think we should externalize the blacklist
[12:10] <infinity> pitti : cat /etc/default/pkgstripstranslations | grep ^ENABLED
[12:10] <pitti> infinity: /etc/pkgstriptranslations.blacklist ?
[12:11] <pitti> infinity: I should also add regexp support while I'm at it
[12:12] <pitti> infinity: by keeping the blacklist separate, buildd maintenance should be easy, right?
[12:12] <infinity> pitti : Oh, neat.  It's written in shell.
[12:12] <infinity> pitti : If the blacklist is sometihng that should always be handled by you, just move it out of /etc entirely.  I only want it as a conffile if there's value in that.
[12:13] <pitti> infinity: in theory other distros or even users might want to customize it
[12:13] <pitti> infinity: I think it should be a conffile
[12:13] <infinity> pitti : Other distros would customise at the source level, so that's a non-issue.  Users, though.  <shrug>.. leave it a conffile, then.
[12:13] <pitti> infinity: but since we won't touch it at the buildds, that doesn't hurt us
[12:14] <infinity> pitti : Just move everything to /etc/pkgstriptranslations/{main.cf,blacklist.cf}
[12:14] <pitti> ok
[12:14] <infinity> That has the added bonus that the old conffile won't get in your way on this upgrade. ;)
[12:14] <pitti> infinity: hmm, well, moving conffiles ...
[12:14] <pitti> infinity: no, I have to handle the move properly...
[12:14] <infinity> pitti : Is usually a bad and horrible thing.  But, seriously, who is using this package right now other than the buildds?
[12:14] <pitti> infinity: nobody will use this package in practice, but still
[12:15] <infinity> Too late for that, I guess.
[12:15] <pitti> I think having it in the archive for derivatives and people to play with it makes sense
[12:17] <infinity> I still don't see the harm in hardcoding the blacklist in the source package, though.
[12:17] <infinity> The only people who really want to change it are distributors, who can customise the package.
[12:18] <pitti> infinity: well, yes; keeping the original conffile location would save me much unnecessary maintscripts fu
[12:18] <infinity> But.  Whatever you feel is best.  I don't much care, as long as updating it is easy enough for us.
[12:18] <infinity> Touching a bunch of chroots is icky and wrong.
[12:18] <pitti> infinity: if you agree, I just add /etc/pkgstriptranslations.blacklist
... Okay.
[12:19] <infinity> And just make sure it's read AFTER the conf file.  SO it can overwrite an old blacklist in the conffile. :)
[12:19] <pitti> yeah, the old list will be ignored entirely
[12:19] <infinity> Cool.  Then I officially don't have to do anything.
[12:20] <infinity> Yay me.
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: the blacklist will just consist of a bunch of package names or regexps
[12:20] <infinity> (I'll go clean up the conffiles anyway)
[12:20] <infinity> I still dislike having a conffile that you KNOW will be modified.
[12:20] <infinity> That feels broken.
[12:21] <infinity>  /etc/default/pkgfoo makes more sense if you just want enabled/disabled to be edited without people (usually) touching the rest of the config.
[12:21] <pitti> infinity: for my sake I'll add a default file
[12:22] <pitti> *sigh* three conffiles for a simple shell script, but well, I'll do it
[12:22] <infinity> Well, if you add the /etc/default one, you can not break out the blacklist.
[12:22] <tseng> Kamion: you said the problem with beagle ftbfs amd64 was libxss-dev doesnt depend on libxss?
[12:22] <pitti> hm?
[12:22] <infinity> Since the main conffile will almost never be touched, right?
[12:22] <pitti> infinity: right
[12:23] <infinity> (Assuming the only reason people usually touch it, including the buildds, is to enable/disable the package)
[12:23] <pitti> infinity: so why I can't separate the blacklist then?
[12:23] <infinity> Oh, you can if you want.  I meant you can (not seperate), not you (can not) seperate.
[12:24] <pitti> ah :-)
[12:24] <pitti> you should declare the precedence of your language operators :-)
[12:24] <infinity> Will do in the future. :)
[12:25] <Kamion> tseng: yeah
[12:26] <tseng> Kamion: thanks, ill work around it for now.
[12:28] <infinity> pitti : Anyhow, whatever you end up doing, just ping me when you upload, so I can make sure it all updates correctly. :)
[12:28] <pitti> yes, will do; thanks for your input
[12:28] <infinity> I think I may go buy some ice cream.
[12:42] <jamesh> pitti: here's the other half of the mozilla talkback stuff: http://talkback.mozilla.org/
[01:15] <mdke> where is the best place to ask for nautilus help on irc?
[01:15] <Treenaks> #ubuntu probably ?
[01:15] <mdke> hmm tried that
[01:15] <mdke> is there an official nautilus chan?
[01:25] <seb128> mdke: bugzilla for bugs
[01:26] <seb128> mdke: there is #nautilus chan on irc.gnome.org but that's not really an user chan
[01:26] <mdke> seb128, yeah found it
[01:26] <mdke> thanks
[01:26] <Lathiat> ss
[01:28] <jbailey> elmo: Are you able to sync from experimental to breezy?
[01:29] <pitti> that's possible
[01:29] <jbailey> Ooo.
[01:29] <seb128> mdke: it used to work?
[01:30] <mdke> seb128, what is that?
[01:30] <jbailey> Does it keep syncing, or do I have to poke for each sync?
[01:30] <Kamion> jbailey: the latter
[01:30] <seb128> mdke: you have not opened a bug on nautilus?
[01:30] <mdke> seb128, yes, just now
[01:30] <jbailey> Kamion: Thanks.
[01:30] <seb128> mdke: is that a request for a new feature, or a bug?
[01:31] <mdke> seb128, new feature
[01:31] <shawarma> Am I the only one unable to run 'apt-get build-dep evolution-exchange' ?
 man
 now i have to close that bug
[01:31] <seb128> ah ah
[01:31] <seb128> mdke: <alex_away> we don't generally want hover things
[01:31] <mdke> well he can close it I guess
[01:32] <mdke> one of the other guys in there gave me good feedback on the idea
[01:32] <mdke> seb128, i guess another way of showing the information apart from hover would be equally helpful, like in the bar at the bottom
[01:37] <elmo> jbailey: yes
[01:39] <ogra> seb128, ping
[01:40] <seb128> ?
[01:40] <ogra> seb128, you got mdz's xscreensaver mail ?
[01:40] <seb128> yep
[01:40] <ogra> seb128, what do you think ?
[01:40] <seb128> I've no clue on this atm
[01:41] <ogra> seb128, ah, ok....
[01:41] <seb128> dunno xscreensaver enough
[01:41] <seb128> I've never played with it
[01:41] <ogra> seb128, long term there is a bug from jdub i'd like to close and put the settings in gconf....
[01:41] <ogra> but thats rather breezy+1
[01:42] <ogra> ok, but if you have no clue, i'll try to sort it myself
[01:43] <mdke> seb128, i'd like it if you comment on the bug. If it gets closed, no problem
[01:43] <seb128> I've no comment to make on this
[01:44] <mdke> ok
[01:44] <mdke> sorry
[01:45] <doko> ogra: an option to disable the 3D screensavers would be very nice. the screen can sleep, but not me, because the fan in the powerbook turns on.
[01:46] <ogra> doko, file a bug ? ;)
[01:47] <ogra> enables
[01:47] <KaiL_> the only good screensaver is a blank screen
[01:48] <KaiL_> at least in times of DPMS
[01:48] <ogra> KaiL_, depends :)
[01:48] <ogra> KaiL_, i love to read panlet.ubuntu.com on my screensaver :)
[01:48] <ogra> planet even
[01:49] <Lathiat> doko: xscreensaver shoud be throttled if you shut the lid
[01:49] <ogra> even with a 3D font ;)
[01:49] <Lathiat> i.e. screensavers stop running
[01:49] <Lathiat> aiui anyway
[01:49] <ogra> Lathiat, thats an excellent idea.... yo should follow up on dokos bug ;)
[01:49] <Lathiat> ah
[01:49] <Lathiat> url?
[01:49] <ogra> Lathiat, doko ?
[01:50] <doko> Lathiat: no, that's not the same.
[01:51] <ogra> doko, it is, if you get a lid on your desktop PC .... ;)
[01:51] <Lathiat> heh
[01:51] <Lathiat> just fold your monitor over :)
[01:51] <ogra> doko, and i really cant resolve your lack of hardware ;-P
[01:55] <doko> ogra: I can't help that you cannot sleep because the fan on your amd64 notebook is always turned on.
[01:56] <Treenaks> I see a solution:
[01:56] <Treenaks> ogra: give him your notebook :)
[01:56] <doko> otoh, it drains the battery so fast, that it get's quiet without a bugfix
[01:56] <KaiL_> lol
[01:56] <ogra> doko, notebook == living room or office room, bed == sleeping room
[01:56] <KaiL_> or send the Laptop to S3 :)
[01:56] <ogra> i dont sleep in front of my hardware ;)
[01:56] <Treenaks> KaiL_: S5
[01:56] <KaiL_> Treenaks: or that
[01:56] <KaiL_> at least not S0
[01:57] <Treenaks> true
[01:57] <Treenaks> ok.. 8mpix pics can safely be enlarged to 75x50cm posters
[01:57] <Treenaks> \o/
[01:58] <KaiL_> ...and if the Laptop doesn't support S3 on Linux, it sucks ;)
[01:59] <KaiL_> the only box, I've seen, which doesn't want S3 is my desktop - as always
[02:06] <stuNNed> i stopped getting mail from the list for some odd reason, am i banned? :D
[02:08] <Amaranth> stuNNed: -devel is just quiet, i think
[02:08] <tseng> no I think the lists are actually broken
[02:08] <stuNNed> Amaranth: i checked the archives, there are new messages from yesterday didn't come through..
[02:08] <tseng> i uploaded many packages since the last ones shown on breezy-changes
[02:08] <stuNNed> yes as couldn't access the archives like 2 days ago
[02:09] <Amaranth> stuNNed: iirc if they get 3 bounces from you you're dropped form the list
[02:09] <lamont> pitti: grep -l  dpkg build-*/chroot-*/etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf produces no output on any buildd
[02:10] <lamont> (none of which still have hoary chroots, only hoary-{security,updates} and others
[02:10] <pitti> lamont: yes, we already noticed; I'll fix pkgstriptranslations to maintain a separate black list which I can update by uploads
[02:11] <lamont> I expect that the true blacklist wants to be the union of what's in pkgstriptranslations.conf, and the builtin list
[02:16] <danielki> hey
[02:20] <shawarma> Is there a way to match the Suite:-keyword from the Release file in /etc/apt/preferences ?
[02:21] <shawarma> And how about the Codename-entry?
[02:29] <doko> elmo, Kamion: please can you move libgcj-dev from universe to main, build dependency for ecj-bootstrap, db4.3
[02:31] <ogra> doko, you know the new process for moving to main ? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[02:33] <mdke> jdub, around?
[02:35] <doko> eek, even for library packages?
[02:36] <ogra> doko, for reverse dependencys.... pitti has to review them and requires a Report before
[02:36] <ogra> he mailed -devel about it ;)
[02:37] <pitti> doko: you can create a report yourself to speed things up :-)
[02:37] <tseng> infinity: can you please give back beagle?
[02:38] <doko> ogra, pitti: a report for a symlink. nice.
[02:38] <pitti> doko: it's *only* the -dev package?
[02:39] <doko> pitti: yes
[02:39] <doko> I'll add gnat-4.0 and bison-doc later
[02:41] <lamont> seb128: what does gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders do?
[02:41] <lamont> (besides hang on hppa, that is...)
[02:41] <Treenaks> they load gdk pixbuf queries?
[02:41] <pitti> doko: hm, alright, fine for me :-)
[02:42] <lamont> Treenaks: that was my thought, but then I wondered why do they need their queries loaded, and into what?
[02:42] <Treenaks> lamont: good point
[02:42] <pitti> elmo: libgcj-dev is empty, adding to main is fine
[02:50] <infinity> tseng : Sure.
[02:51] <tseng> infinity: thanks.
[02:53] <infinity> Is it somehow going to magically be happier now?
[02:54] <tseng> infinity: yes, i broke gecko-sharp and it wasnt fixed yet when it tried to build beagle
[02:54] <tseng> i guess the dep-waiter would fix that eventually
[02:54] <infinity> No.
[02:54] <infinity> That particular bug just stays as a failure until a real person looks at it.
[02:55] <tseng> k
[02:55] <infinity> (Well, currently... I'm going to see about making it even smarter)
[02:55] <tseng> well building it now should work a bit better.
[02:56] <infinity> Looks like it's going better, yeah.
[02:57] <tseng> do you have the lamont workspace?
[02:57] <infinity> As in, it didn't die in the first 3 seconds with "I can't install anything, cause the world is broken, help!"
[02:57] <tseng> 30 tiled xterms on buildd shells
[02:57] <infinity> I don't have the screen resolution to do that, yet.  But i type fast. :)
[02:58] <infinity> (I'm ordering a new laptop, then I'll do the 7000 xterms thing, just cause it'll make my girlfriend frightened of touching my computer... A great security feature)
[02:58] <infinity> "Oh my god, what's all that scrolling text, argh!
[02:58] <tseng> hah
[02:58] <tseng> you need ogra's keyboard
[02:58] <tseng> no key labels
[02:58] <infinity> dvorak?
[02:58] <tseng> and then make it dvorak.
[02:58] <ogra> heh
[02:58] <tseng> thatd show her.
[02:59] <infinity> I've had no labels, but qwerty still.
[02:59] <infinity> I can't type on dvorak to save my life.
[02:59] <tseng> ive not tried it.
[02:59] <doko> Mithrandir: can you update ia32-libs in breezy? I get a "error creating symbolic link `./usr/lib32/libGL.so.1': No such file or directory
[02:59] <\sh> infinity: sktream and simage are ok :) please remove sear from the frozenapps 
[03:00] <ogra> infinity, http://www.daskeyboard.com/
[03:00] <ogra> If you are an elite programmer who can write sophisticated code under tight deadlines, someone who makes impossible projects possible; or a Silver Web Surfer your colleagues turn to when they need IT advice: this keyboard is for you.
[03:00] <ogra> hahaha
[03:00] <pitti> infinity: you should do to save your fingers
[03:00] <tseng> ogra: as funny as the page is, i think it might be cool to have one.
[03:01] <spacey> is linux virtual server suppose to work on ubuntu?
[03:01] <ogra> but $80, just because they saved money on printing ?
[03:01] <tseng> ogra: the spring thing.
[03:01] <tseng> might be handy
[03:01] <ogra> tseng, i'd like to test that first :)
[03:01] <infinity> ogra : Looks nice.
[03:01] <tseng> ya.
[03:02] <infinity> \sh : on it.
[03:02] <ogra> it sounds very reasonable though
[03:02] <tseng> the one I really dont get is the happy hacker keybd
[03:02] <\sh> infinity: thx
[03:03] <infinity> ogra : I like the text about the key switches and the weight... I do like a good keyboard.  I don't much care if ithas printing or not, though it's a cute "feature".
[03:04] <ogra> infinity, yes, but i wouldnt buy such a thing without testing.... 
[03:05] <infinity> Yeah, I'm really picky about keyboards.
[03:05] <infinity> Also sucks that it's USB only.
[03:06] <tseng> ps2-usb is a very simple adapter
[03:06] <tseng> it might even come with one.
[03:06] <tseng> i have several
[03:07] <infinity> System Requirements
[03:07] <infinity>     * DOS, Windows 3.1 or higher. If you still use DOS or Windows 3.1, please send us a postcard screen shot.
[03:07] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql-8.0 from sid
[03:07] <Lathiat> infinity: haha
[03:08] <infinity> As for the USB/PS2 thing, does the device not have to be capable of speaking both protocols?... The adapters are just electrical adapters, not logical.
[03:08] <infinity> (Which is why said adapter will work with, say, an MS IntelliMouse, but not some random BrandX USB mouse)
[03:08] <Lathiat> infinity: in most cases
[03:08] <Lathiat> i have heard of some active translators
[03:09] <tseng> ah there goes the mailing lists
[03:09] <\sh> infinity: can u remove glcpu as well from the frozenapps...I just try to rebuild it with the new libcommoncpp2 version
[03:10] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync synaptic from debian incoming? (override ok)
[03:10] <infinity> tseng : Looks like beagle was much happier this time around.  You win a gold star.
[03:10] <tseng> infinity: amd64 pass?
[03:10] <infinity> tseng : Yup.
[03:10] <tseng> infinity: woo, thanks for the kick.
[03:11] <ogra> YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyy
[03:11] <Treenaks> ogra: ?
[03:11] <ogra> Treenaks, <tseng> infinity: amd64 pass?
[03:12] <Treenaks> ogra: ah
[03:12] <Treenaks> ogra: leet :)
[03:12] <tseng> Treenaks: E-LITE.
[03:12] <infinity> \sh : I already unfroze glcpu a day or two ago.  If it's still in my list, I suck. :)
[03:12] <\sh> infinity: it is ;) 
[03:13] <infinity> \sh : Is not.
[03:13] <infinity> :)
[03:13] <\sh> infinity: u r a cheater ;)
[03:14] <pitti> infinity: could you please have a look why qt-x11-free 3:3.3.4-1ubuntu6 is not attempted to be built?
[03:15] <infinity> pitti : Spite.
[03:15] <infinity> (And an sbuild bug)
[03:15] <infinity> Let me fix the latter and get back to you.
[03:16] <pitti> thanks
[03:16] <pitti> infinity: (and congrats of becoming the "my package doesn't build" pestering guy :-)
[03:17] <ogra> oh, thats infinity now
[03:17] <ogra> ?
[03:22] <pitti> infinity: is it the same bug that keeps pike7.6_7.6.24-1ubuntu4 from being built on anything but amd64?
[03:23] <\sh> pitti: ha..problems with postgresql-dev .. does it depend on your postgresql-8.0 breaks da world announcement?
[03:24] <infinity> pitti : Looks like it, yes.
[03:24] <pitti> \sh: postgresql-dev 7.5.4 just depends on libpq-dev to aid in transition for users, but that won't help to make most packages build again
[03:24] <pitti> \sh: in particular, packages already using pg_config will even work now, but most packages don't, so they are screwed
[03:25] <infinity> pitti L And several others.
[03:25] <pitti> \sh: but I didn't understand your question properly, can you re-explain? (or /msg me in German *hehe)
[03:26] <\sh> pitti: postgresql-dev doesn't want to install on breezy
[03:26] <pitti> hm?
[03:26] <\sh> pitti: so i'll get some errors from pbuilder 
[03:26] <\sh> (the last try was this morning)
[03:26] <pitti> whoops
[03:27] <pitti> \sh: WTH? it only depends on libpq-dev (unversioned) and libpq-dev is installable
[03:28] <pitti> \sh: I mean, it isn't particularly useful anyway, but it should at least work
[03:28] <infinity> pitti : Yay.  sbuild bug fixed, qt-x11-free blows up spectacularly on configure. :)
[03:28] <ajmitch> pitti: libpq-dev: Conflicts: postgresql-dev but 7.5.4 is to be installed
[03:29] <infinity> XRandR support cannot be enabled due to functionality tests!
[03:29] <infinity>  Turn on verbose messaging (-v) to ./configure to see the final report.
[03:29] <infinity>  If you believe this message is in error you may use the continue
[03:29] <infinity>  switch (-continue) to ./configure to continue.
[03:29] <infinity> make: *** [libqt-stamp]  Error 101
[03:29] <pitti> infinity: still? *sign*
[03:29] <pitti> infinity: I added the missign libxrandr b-dep, I hoped that this would fix it
[03:29] <infinity> *sign* indeed. ;)
[03:29] <\sh> pitti: moment...i'll try again :)
[03:30] <infinity> pitti : Can you get it to build locally?
[03:30] <pitti> ajmitch: ah, right. my bad
[03:30] <infinity> pitti : Or are you just bouncing random sources off the buildds and praying? :)
[03:30] <ogra> infinity, all X includes are borked currently....
[03:30] <infinity> ogra : Sweet.
[03:30] <ogra> at least randr and xlibs
[03:30] <ogra> daniels said it should be solved today...
[03:31] <\sh> -> Considering  postgresql-dev (>= 7.4.6-1)
[03:31] <\sh>    -> Trying postgresql-dev
[03:31] <pitti> infinity: I need the lib in the dchroot to test
[03:31] <\sh>        -> Cannot install postgresql-dev; apt errors follow:
[03:31] <\sh> Reading package lists... Done
[03:31] <\sh> Building dependency tree... Done
[03:31] <\sh> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
[03:31] <\sh> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
[03:31] <\sh> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
[03:31] <\sh> or been moved out of Incoming.
[03:31] <\sh> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
[03:31] <pitti> \sh: alright, I know the bug
[03:31] <\sh> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:31] <\sh>   postgresql-dev: Depends: libpq-dev but it is not going to be installed
[03:31] <\sh> and the last breezy update was 5 mins ago
[03:32] <infinity> \sh : THe bug is known. :)
[03:32] <\sh> pitti: k
[03:33] <infinity> \sh : In future, that kind of stuff is a little more appreciated in #flood. :)
[03:33] <infinity> (Or someone could start #ubuntu-flood, if you feel like being gratuitously different)
[03:33] <pitti> \sh: my original idea was that an already installed p-dev would automatically be replaced by libpq-dev on upgrade, and p-dev removed
[03:34] <infinity> pitti : pike7.6 seems to be going fine though, so you win 1 out of 2.
[03:34] <pitti> hehe
[03:34] <\sh> infinity: sry...:(
[03:34] <infinity> Parsing "/build/buildd/pike7.6-7.6.24/build/linux-2.6.10-i686/traditional.xml"...
[03:34] <infinity> Layouting...
[03:34] <infinity> "Layouting"?
[03:34] <infinity> In whose world is that a word?
[03:34] <pitti> infinity: qt is really a daniels-ish thing now, the added b-dep was just a quick try...
[03:35] <infinity> pitti : Sounds like, yeah.
[03:35] <\sh> argl...do not put any "ish" in your sentence..until tomorrow
[03:35] <infinity> I could set it to an arbitrary dep-wait on some random X lib or other >> the current version.
[03:35] <infinity> You don't hilight on "ish" do you?
[03:36] <infinity> That would be kinda weirdish.
[03:36] <ogra> infinity, http://www.ish.de/
[03:36] <pitti> maybe that's the reason for his backslash?
[03:36] <ogra> infinity, thats where he works ;)
[03:36] <infinity> Ahh. :)
[03:37] <ogra> and i can understand he doesnt like to read it here, i worked there too ;)
[03:37] <ajmitch> \sh: my condolences, a hard day at work? :)
[03:37] <\sh> ajmitch: company politics suck
[03:37] <\sh> ajmitch: and spreading lies suck more
[03:37] <ajmitch> ouch, yes
[03:37] <ogra> ajmitch, thats what made me resign :)
[03:38] <ogra> but \sh has a thicker skin it seems :)
[03:38] <ajmitch> tseng: menu rearrangement & patching?
[03:38] <\sh> ogra: u know exactly about whom I'm talking...
[03:38] <\sh> ogra: i need the money
[03:39] <tseng> ajmitch: it was removed intentionally
[03:39] <ogra> probably we finally get a running gnome-launchbox
[03:39] <tseng> just not sure of the rationale
[03:39] <infinity> Oh, dear god.
[03:39] <tseng> because starting a terminal and doing (foo &) is lame
[03:39] <infinity> That's not the sbuild bug I thought it was, it's a lamont bug.
[03:40] <tseng> i guess ill just add the panel button
[03:41] <azeem> tseng: there's still a keyboard shortcut for it I thought?
[03:41] <tseng> azeem: i could make one
[03:41] <tseng> azeem: i use a real window manager
[03:42] <ogra> tseng, alt-f2 should be default 
[03:42] <tseng> indeed.
[03:51] <AndyFitz> audit(1118319949.184:0)initialized
[03:51] <AndyFitz> kernel panic - not syncing : vfs : unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
[03:52] <tseng> AndyFitz: owned.
[03:52] <AndyFitz> whats the rizzie dizzie ?
[03:52] <zul> hmmm...
[03:52] <AndyFitz> tseng,   totally pwned
[03:54] <ajmitch> AndyFitz: initrd didn't get created right, I guess, boot with the old kernel & renstall the new one?
[03:56] <AndyFitz> ajmitch,   the old kernels will be there ?  grub isnt showing them
[03:57] <ogra> AndyFitz, they are not in the menu if you hit ESC at boot ?
[03:58] <zul> AndyFitz: i just had the same thing happen to me..can you do the following when rebooting next add the following to your boot params ramdisk_size=640000
[03:58] <zul> somehow the dbg kernel is booting first on the grube
[03:59] <AndyFitz> zul,  cheers mate
[03:59] <AndyFitz> ogra,  dunno mate  i'll check on reboot
[03:59] <zul> ill talk to fabbione when he gets back
[03:59] <AndyFitz> ajmitch.   thanks for your help too mate
[03:59] <AndyFitz> brb
[04:00] <zul> AndyFitz: the non-debug kernels should be lower down on the grub list as well
[04:01] <pitti> infinity: new pkgstriptranslations uploaded
[04:02] <pitti> infinity: no action required from your side; however, you may remove the nostrip" option from the conffiles to clean up, if you want
[04:03] <seb128> pitti: can you read the current comment on #9760 please? 
[04:03] <seb128> pitti: not sure if that's an alsa issue ...
[04:05] <infinity> pitti : Spiff.  Thanks.
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: hm, I'm a bit confused about that bug
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: the mic is normally muted
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: otherwise many people would get unexpected feedback loops which should be avoided
[04:06] <seb128> k, so that's probably his "bug"
[04:10] <AndyFitz> bugger  ,  same panic error.   the version is  2.6.10-5-386
[04:12] <zul> oh i thought you were talking about 2.6.12...not sure whats up then previous version should be in grub
[04:12] <elmo> pitti: WTF?  empty?
[04:13] <pitti> elmo: well, it only provides a dependency and the usual changelog/copyright stuff, but no interesting stuff
[04:13] <elmo> pitti: postgres sync done
[04:15] <elmo> mvo: done
[04:15] <pitti> thanks
[04:16] <elmo> libgcj-dev promoted
[04:20] <mdke> elmo, hi. can you add Mikko Virkkil to the docteam repo, he says he emailed his key to ya
[04:20] <Treenaks> pitti: can I start fixing/uploading postgresql stuff from universe yet? (and do you have a howto?)
[04:21] <pitti> Treenaks: sure, I sent one to u-devel
[04:21] <pitti> Treenaks: main transition is done
[04:21] <Kamion> mako: you don't need to change the meta-userlinux source package name as well?
[04:21] <pitti> Treenaks: and Debian folks start to fix packages, too, so it's (hopefully) just a matter of time
[04:22] <pitti> Treenaks: so if you fix something, please give the maintainer a short ping
[04:22] <Treenaks> pitti: oh cool
[04:22] <Nafallo> pitti: should cryptsetup lucsFormat /dev/sda -y segfault or am I doing something wrong? :-)
[04:22] <Treenaks> Nafallo: luksFormat with a k
[04:22] <Treenaks> Nafallo: not a c
[04:22] <pitti> still, it shouldn't segfault
[04:22] <Treenaks> pitti: good point
[04:23] <Nafallo> Treenaks: right. typo here, not in the console ;-).
[04:23] <pitti> Nafallo: can you compile a debug version and get a backtrace?
[04:23] <Nafallo> pitti: k
[04:25] <infinity> pitti : When the X stuff gets fixed, remind me to kick QT again.
[04:26] <pitti> infinity: sure
[04:27] <mako> Kamion: they won't notice it :)
[04:28] <elmo> mdke: yes, it only got oked, like a day ago, I'll get to it in a bit
[04:28] <mdke> elmo, thanks. who ok's em?
[04:29] <shaya> what's the policy for what libraries on x86-64 get 32bit versions for /lib32 ?
[04:29] <Kamion> shaya: the ones that are needed for applications we have to ship 32-bit
[04:29] <Kamion> which is basically OpenOffice.org
[04:30] <Kamion> pitti: perl's been fixed, in case you didn't notice
[04:30] <pitti> Kamion: cool, thanks
[04:30] <pitti> Kamion: will try that soon
[04:30] <elmo> mdke: I asked enrico, since he's been the one managing the accounts on the svn server so far
[04:30] <shaya> Kamion: reason I ask is that Sun gave us an opteron box and we installed hoary on it
[04:31] <shaya> but then when we went to install sunray (32bit app) many libs werent available
[04:31] <mdke> elmo, ok cool
[04:31] <mdke> thanks!
[04:31] <shaya> hacked around it via ar -x of the 32 bit libs
[04:31] <shaya> but not a good solution
[04:31] <Kamion> shaya: we know that there isn't a full 32-bit environment. In reality, you're probably better off with a chroot until full multiarch gets implemented.
[04:31] <shaya> is that a breezy goal?
[04:31] <shaya> or future?
[04:31] <Kamion> future I think, ask Mithrandir
[04:32] <shaya> k, thanks
[04:35] <Kamion> pitti: just warning so that you can stop working around it. :)
[04:35] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, I talked with bod about this yesterday, and he had an update in the works; I just didn't see the outcome
[04:40] <jdub> infinity: rad!
[04:44] <Nafallo> pitti: you got mail :-)
[04:47] <pitti> Kamion: rad, perl works :-)
[04:49] <Kamion> cool
[04:51] <pitti> Nafallo: thanks; can you generate a stack trace, too, please?
[04:51] <Nafallo> pitti: i.e. strace? gdb doesn't give anything :-/
[04:52] <pitti> Nafallo: huh, no stack trace with gdb?
[04:52] <Nafallo> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[04:52] <Nafallo> 0x00002aaaaaf455b0 in strlen () from /lib/libc.so.6
[04:52] <pitti> Nafallo: strace traces system calls, not stacks
[04:52] <Nafallo> that's all :-/
[04:52] <pitti> Nafallo: you might need a debugging version
[04:53] <Nafallo> pitti: I've followed http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebuggingProgramCrash :-)
[04:53] <pitti> Nafallo: apt-get source cryptsetup; cd cryptsetup-*; DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip,noopt debuild -us -uc -b
[04:54] <pitti> Nafallo: then you can sudo gdb on the binary in the built source directory (or install the deb, as you wish)
[04:56] <pitti> Nafallo: ah, wait
[04:56] <Nafallo> pitti: cryptsetup needs to have sudo? I might try that first then ;-)
[04:57] <pitti> Nafallo: is above output just the standard reaction after run? or the output after actually doing "backtrace"?
[04:57] <pitti> Nafallo: well, it needs it to setup the device mapper, and to access /dev/sda in the first place
[04:57] <Nafallo> pitti: after run.
[04:58] <pitti> Nafallo: ah, please do a "backtrace" after it crashed
[04:59] <Nafallo> pitti: hehe, I should not trust wikis blindly ;-)
[04:59] <pitti> Nafallo: calling it without sudo and with -y doesn't crash for me (it just prints out some failure messages)
[04:59] <pitti> Nafallo: point 5 in the wiki describes the bt call
[04:59] <SquishyWaffle> before I go reporting this would someone mind duplicating it for me?: Open mozilla-thunderbird and select multiple messages, hit reply-all. This crashes the client entirely for me with a strange error message in the console.
[05:00] <Nafallo> "thread apply" and stuff yes. just typing backtrace worked better :-).
[05:00] <newz2000> I keep getting an OOPS during install (configuring iptables)
[05:00] <newz2000> I'm trying to make a kickstart install cd
[05:01] <newz2000> I've tried all I know (not much) and can't get around it
[05:02] <newz2000> Any way that you know of to track this down?
[05:04] <Nafallo> why can't I copy the damn text from the console?
[05:06] <Nafallo> pitti: mail sent :-)
[05:06] <Nafallo> irritating that I couldn't copy paste from the console right to evo though...
[05:10] <Nafallo> pitti: is there a sizelimit that must be meet?
[05:11] <pitti> Nafallo: no, that should work fine
[05:11] <newz2000> does this mean anything? http://rafb.net/paste/results/YQ1PlQ51.html
[05:11] <pitti> Nafallo: i c&p multiple pages of output already
[05:11] <Nafallo> pitti: hmm, strange.
[05:12] <Nafallo> pitti: in any case. the device is a 8MB CF-card ;-)
[05:12] <otavio> Hello folks, I saw some people having same problem I have on Debian using EsounD and ALSA. esd keeps using /dev/dsp and then other applications cannot use it. Some idea how solve it?
[05:13] <tseng> you can solve it by not using esd
[05:13] <tseng> or making your other apps play to esd
[05:13] <pitti> otavio: yes, switch to libesd-alsa0
[05:13] <otavio> tseng: but then GNOME doesn't play some songs
[05:13] <otavio> pitti: I'm already using it
[05:13] <otavio> pitti: that's why i'm asking about it.
[05:13] <pitti> otavio: then upgrade to libasound2 1.0.9 to get dmix by default
[05:13] <ogra> otavio, just let your apps use esd too... and this belongs to #ubuntu
[05:13] <otavio> pitti: I doesn't understand why
[05:14] <otavio> ogra: not exactly since it's a bug
[05:14] <pitti> ovavio: it works fine in breezy
[05:14] <otavio> pitti: I already tried to upgarde and didn't work.
[05:14] <ogra> otavio, nope
[05:14] <otavio> pitti: yeah?
[05:15] <ogra> otavio, its a bug of the app if it doesnt support esd output in hoary....
[05:15] <pitti> otavio: hm, then dmix does not work for your sound card apparently. Can you please file a bug? (assign it to martin.pitt)
[05:15] <pitti> otavio: oh, that's hoary?
[05:15] <pitti> otavio: no bug then, please, that's a known issue
[05:15] <pitti> otavio: it's fixed in breezy
[05:15] <ogra> pitti, no, thats debian if i got it right
[05:15] <pitti> hrm
[05:15] <otavio> pitti: and what was did to solve it? can you inform me?
[05:15] <pitti> file a Debian bug then :-)
[05:15] <otavio> ogra: yes, Debian
[05:16] <otavio> pitti: I want to try to have it fixed on Debian also
[05:16] <Nafallo> pitti: segfault on my 64MB usbstick to ;-)
[05:16] <otavio> pitti: since we can cooperate on it.
[05:16] <pitti> otavio: I already did: switch to libesd-alsa0, libasound 1.0.9 and best thing is to get rid of esd and replace it with polypaudio (since esd sounds terrible with the new libasound)
[05:16] <ogra> otavio, for hoary we made sure all supported apps support esd output by default....
[05:17] <pitti> ^ yes, but that doesn't help Debian
[05:17] <pitti> for Debian we have to offer a non-esd interface, too
[05:17] <ogra> nope... but explains his problem .....
[05:17] <pitti> (same for ubuntu, FWIW)
[05:17] <otavio> ogra: not exactly since I saw some people having problems with hoary too
[05:17] <ogra> otavio, not with supported apps ;)
[05:17] <pitti> otavio: yes, in hoary we used libesd0 which used the oss interface and blocks *everything*
[05:18] <zyga> :-)
[05:18] <pitti> ogra: right, but folks might want to use nonsupported ones, too :-) (I want at least)
[05:18] <ogra> otavio, i admit, there is a good bunch of apps in universe that might have that bug
[05:18] <otavio> pitti: thanks a lot 
[05:18] <pitti> otavio: I think using polypaudio on top of ALSA dmix is a sane solution for now
[05:18] <otavio> pitti: thanks a lot 
[05:18] <pitti> otavio: just odd that it doesn't work for you...
[05:19] <pitti> otavio: btw, I filed an alsa upstream bug recently, and they said that they are interested in hearing about devices where dmix doesn't work out of the box
[05:19] <otavio> pitti: i think polyaudio doesn't exist on Debian yet
[05:20] <pitti> ah, bad
[05:20] <pitti> otavio: well, we tried it in Hoary and it was too buggy, but it should be much better now
[05:20] <otavio> pitti: but this isn't a big issue since we can add it
[05:20] <pitti> otavio: esd+dmix = the suck
[05:20] <pitti> that's the problem
[05:20] <tseng> does polyp+dmix still have audio sync issues?
[05:21] <tseng> gst audio is always goofy on esd
[05:21] <pitti> otavio: right now breezy has gstreamer -> alsa directly, but that's still too unstable
[05:21] <ogra> heh, tseng your changelogs get famous :)
[05:21] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-June/038225.html
[05:21] <tseng> ogra: heh.
[05:22] <otavio> pitti: so the best solution right now is use polyaudio + alsa?
[05:23] <pitti> otavio: I think so, yes
[05:23] <pitti> otavio: that was at least the outcome of the AudioInfrastructure BoF
[05:24] <pitti> otavio: you still don't get sound for multiple users, but at least you can use esd+alsa in parallel
[05:24] <pitti> s/esd/polypaudio/
[05:24] <otavio> pitti: can you point to me where I can find the sources of it?
[05:24] <pitti> "it" == ?
[05:25] <ogra> hmm, tseng but he is our best tester ;) http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-June/038227.html
[05:25] <tseng> i saw that
[05:25] <otavio> pitti: polyaudio
[05:25] <otavio> pitti: sorry
[05:26] <tseng> i think his beagled is broken because he is too bleeding edge
[05:26] <tseng> i broke the sqlite dllmap
[05:26] <pitti> ah
[05:26] <ogra> ah
[05:26] <pitti> otavio: right now, just from archive.u.c
[05:26] <otavio> pitti: do you have any problem if I include it on Debian?
[05:26] <pitti> otavio: however, some upstream guy fixed some bugs in his branch, I will pull and apply them soon
[05:27] <pitti> otavio: of course now :-)
[05:27] <tseng> ogra: it can stay broken until I fix it, its breezy, I dont support it :)
[05:27] <pitti> otavio: not, even
[05:27] <pitti> otavio: to the contrary
[05:27] <pitti> otavio: however, what about this:
[05:27] <ogra> otavio, we appreciate every package that goes back upstream (to debian)
[05:27] <pitti> otavio: I'll apply the fixes soon and ping you back when I have an updated and tested package?
[05:27] <ogra> tseng, yep, no objections :)
[05:27] <otavio> pitti: nice
[05:28] <pitti> otavio: of course you can already upload the current version, it is not _that_ bad :-)
[05:28] <otavio> pitti: I'll put it on Debian-BR-CDD for testing in meanwhile
[05:28] <pitti> otavio: actually, uploading right now is pretty good, so it can pass NEW
[05:28] <otavio> pitti: nice. I'll look at it
[05:28] <pitti> otavio: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/polypaudio/
[05:29] <daniels> ogra: eh, not all X includes
[05:29] <tseng> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/sound/polypaudio is easier to use imo
[05:29] <pitti> Hey daniels, good to meet you :-)
[05:29] <daniels> ogra: basically, stuff which didn't put -I/usr/X11R6/include and instead just hoped it'd land in the include path somehow is now broken
[05:29] <ogra> daniels, error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory is a *bit* essential ;)
[05:29] <daniels> it'll get unbroken later
[05:29] <tseng> daniels: cough.
[05:29] <daniels> ogra: -I/usr/X11R6/include, it's the app's fault
[05:29] <pitti> daniels: could you please take a look at the current qt-x11-free FTBFS? it complains about an xrandr issue; I already added the build-dependency, but that didn't help :-(
[05:29] <daniels> ogra: but it will get fixed anyway
[05:30] <daniels> pitti: probably needs -I/usr/X11R6/include
[05:30] <daniels> will check it out
[05:30] <pitti> thanks
[05:30] <ogra> daniels, i trued several variations of -I :) but i'll try again
[05:30] <ogra> tried even
[05:31] <tseng> daniels: are you fixing libxss-dev doesnt dep on libxss1?
[05:31] <daniels> tseng: yeah, all the -devs
[05:31] <tseng> daniels: thanks :D
[05:34] <pitti> tseng: indeed, I'm still not used to p.u.c...
[05:36] <tseng> pitti: its great stuff i send the page to my sponsor to grab sources
[05:36] <tseng> its all on there now
[05:44] <otavio> pitti: thanks a lot
[06:14] <daniels> gah, I'm way too tired, and autotools has defeated me :(
[06:14] <daniels> http://www.livejournal.com/users/fooishbar/61082.html in particular, as well as EXTRA_DIST stupidity (it will silently fail to actually put the files in the distdir in some circumstances)
[06:15] <daniels> xorg tomorr,w
[06:15] <daniels> sorry about that
[06:17] <Kamion> daniels: would you mind if I did the xfonts-core fix, then (unless it's already in your queue)? if possible, I'd really like to have a serious go at Colony 2 tomorrow, before I have to move house and have an as-yet-undetermined amount of time when I can't do CD work
[06:18] <daniels> Kamion: sure, if you need it
[06:18] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[06:18] <daniels> no worries
[06:18] <Kamion> yeah, it bones fresh installs
[06:18] <daniels> sorry to be blocking; didn't realise you were trying to get it done tomorrow
[06:18] <daniels> yeah, I can see how that would be a problem if you were doing a colony ;)
[06:18] <Kamion> s'ok, ADSL stuff has been ... interesting
[06:19] <daniels> i've spent all frigging day banging my head into banks, travel agents, and autotools
[06:19] <Kamion> don't know yet whether it'll be up when I move
[06:19] <daniels> ahr, wot fun
[06:19] <daniels> colony release over gprs? :)
[06:19] <Kamion> and it'll only be a megabit rather than 2 as I'd hoped, due to line quality
[06:21] <Kamion> daniels: is there a baz archive I should be branching or anything?
[06:22] <daniels> Kamion: not yet, unfortunately.  i've been shit in that regard.
[06:23] <Kamion> oh, bugger, it's xutils, not xfonts-utils
[06:23] <Kamion> damnit, that means uploading xorg
[06:23] <daniels> yeah
[06:23] <daniels> i'm getting libx11 out now, which is up to 10min on my amd64
[06:24] <daniels> that'll be the first noticeable chink in the time it takes to compile xorg (well, *really* noticeable; fonts were a fair hit)
[06:24] <daniels> Kamion: my solution was to ship a local copy of mkfontdir (ship it out of debian/local), that has /usr/bin rather than /usr/X11R6/bin
[06:25] <Kamion> I might leave it to you then; I don't have disk space handy to compile xorg :(
[06:25] <daniels> ok
[06:26] <daniels> any specific time it'd be good to have it done by?
[06:30] <pitti> seb128: alright, I imported breezy with my langpack scripts, I'm going to build new packs now
[06:37] <daniels> Kamion: so yeah, any specific time tomorrow?
[06:38] <daniels> Kamion: i'd like to get to the travel agent asap tomorrow morning, then go to the gym after, so all that probably has me getting home about 3pm, so uploading by about 6?
[06:38] <daniels> (UTC+10)
[06:38] <Kamion> daniels: if I had them built by lunchtime my time after I get back from collecting the removal van, that'd be top
[06:38] <Kamion> so 6 your time sounds good
[06:38] <daniels> cool, I'll try to stick to that as closely as I can
[06:38] <Kamion> cheers dude
[06:39] <daniels> just need to get in in the morning so Thai don't cancel my ticket and leave me holding a $700 cancellation fee and no way to get to Karlsruhe
[06:39] <daniels> no worries
[06:39] <Kamion> yeah, that sounds bad
[06:41] <daniels> mmm, I know how that goes
[06:42] <daniels> i worked out at one stage I had about 30GB of X build trees from packages alone
[06:42] <daniels> my ~ expands to fit the available space; it was fitting in 6 once upon a time, then 10, then 25, then 40, then 100, and now it's about 230GB
[06:43] <Lathiat> ouch
[06:43] <infinity> Yeah, I have goldfish diskspace usage too.
[06:44] <infinity> Makes me wonder if perhaps I should just stop buying hard drives.
[06:44] <daniels> i need to get another couple of 250GB drives soon
[06:44] <Lathiat> i wish i had that much disk space :)
[06:44] <infinity> daniels : Also, go to bed.  It's late.
[06:45] <daniels> infinity: this is true
[06:45] <daniels> but I'm watching libX11 builds spin around and around
[06:45] <daniels> i'll go to bed when it passes make distcheck
[07:02] <bob2> does ccache help much?
[07:03] <daniels> hrm
[07:05] <Lathiat> daniels: did you break your build so it loops...? :)
[07:05] <bob2> Lathiat: go to bed!
[07:05] <Lathiat> bob2: workign :(
[07:06] <pitti> bob2: can I teach "baz replay" to strip off initial directories, like "patch -p1"?
[07:07] <bob2> pitti: hm, no
[07:07] <bob2> why would you want to?
[07:08] <pitti> bob2: I just patched postgresql-8.0.3/debian/rules in postgresql--devel--8.0
[07:08] <bob2> use case, use case, usecase :-)
[07:08] <Lathiat> USE="case"
[07:08] <pitti> bob2: and it would be cooool to replay the patch to postgresql-7.4.8/debian/rules in postgresql--devel--7.4
[07:08] <bob2> pitti: replay doesn't Just Work?
[07:08] <pitti> bob2: i. e. "baz replay -p1 branch--patch-foo
[07:08] <pitti> bob2: nope
[07:08] <bob2> hm, why?
[07:08] <Kamion> why does postgresql--devel--7.4 have a postgresql-7.4.8 subdirectory?
[07:08] <Kamion> that seems pretty pointless
[07:08] <pitti> bob2: it stumbles over the wrong dirnames
[07:09] <bob2> pitti: that's odd
[07:09] <pitti> Kamion: well, that's still from the time when we actually managed other files in the parent directory
[07:09] <bob2> they should be the same logical file
[07:09] <bob2> regardless of how it was moved
[07:09] <Kamion> pitti: I think that's why you're losing
[07:09] <Kamion> bob2: assuming they actually share history ...
[07:09] <pitti> bob2: $ baz replay pkg-postgresql-private@lists.alioth.debian.org--2005/postgresql--devel--8.0--patch-86
[07:09] <pitti> * patching for revision pkg-postgresql-private@lists.alioth.debian.org--2005/postgresql--devel--8.0--patch-86
[07:09] <pitti> A   {arch}/postgresql/postgresql--devel/postgresql--devel--8.0/pkg-postgresql-private@lists.alioth.debian.org--2005/patch-log/patch-86
[07:09] <pitti> ?M  postgresql-8.0-8.0.3/debian/changelog
[07:09] <pitti> ?M  postgresql-8.0-8.0.3/debian/rules
[07:10] <bob2> Kamion: well, yeah
[07:10] <pitti> Kamion: no, of course they don't share history, otherwise I could just merge
[07:10] <bob2> oh
[07:10] <Kamion> pitti: well then
[07:10] <pitti> Kamion: that's why I tried replay with a single -patch-N
[07:10] <Kamion> move those trees to have sensible structures :-)
[07:10] <pitti> bob2: anyway, it's not a big deal and it doesn't occur very often
[07:11] <bob2> pitti: baz get-changeset pkg-postgresql-private@lists.alioth.debian.org--2005/postgresql--devel--8.0--patch-86 ,,cset ; baz show-changeset --diffs ,,cset > foo.patch
[07:11] <pitti> bob2: get-changeset, show-changeset, and good old patch -p1 do the same
[07:11] <bob2> right
[07:11] <bob2> yeah, when you don't have history baz kinda curls up in the corner and cries
[07:11] <daniels> Lathiat: no, I'm just running distcheck.  a lot.
[07:11] <pitti> bob2: I thought replay could apply patches regardless of history and branching
[07:11] <Lathiat> daniels: ah
[07:11] <Lathiat> daniels: ccache?
[07:12] <bob2> pitti: nah, same applicagtion code as replay
[07:12] <pitti> bob2: another thing, will show-changeset eventually work with archive/branch arguments in addition to directories?
[07:13] <pitti> bob2: I often want to look at a patch, but always typing two commands and remove the temporary dir is a bit cumbersome
[07:13] <bob2> hmm
[07:13] <bob2> it should, yes
[07:15] <jdub> http://www.alobbs.com/images/3ubuntu.jpg
[07:16] <tseng> jdub: wow thanks for the warning.
[07:16] <jdub> oops
[07:16] <jdub> sorry :)
[07:16] <mdz> not worksafe :-)
[07:16] <\sh> ROTFL
[07:16] <daniels> no, not even close
[07:17] <daniels> Lathiat: keep touching CFLAGS et al
[07:17] <tseng> unless you work for mark, I guess
[07:17] <bob2> hah
[07:17] <Lathiat> daniels: ah
[07:18] <\sh> jdub: blog it :)
[07:18] <jdub> i've soundered it
[07:18] <Lathiat> haha
[07:18] <Lathiat> thats class
[07:21] <\sh> hmm....
[07:24] <pitti> elmo: FYI, I seeded the NEW language-pack-ug
[07:25] <Kamion> UG
[07:25] <Kamion> what an excellent language code
[07:25] <pitti> Kamion: ever heard of "Uighur"?
[07:25] <Kamion> no - I just found it in iso_639.tab ...
[07:26] <pitti> Kamion: nice, there is a language "Umbundu" :-)
[07:27] <daniels> WHOOHOO!
[07:28] <daniels> so, make distcheck took between 9 and 10 minutes to run
[07:28] <luis_> uighur is from the same neck of the woods as mongolian, IIRC
[07:28] <daniels> xorg on the same machine takes between 45 and 50 minutes to do its thing
[07:28] <daniels> do the maths.
[07:28] <daniels> 'night kids.
[07:28] <pitti> sleep well, daniels
[07:29] <jdub> luis_: no necks left in those woods. :)
[07:29] <Nafallo> daniels: night :-)
[07:30] <luis_> northwestern china, so I was pretty close
[07:35] <\sh> can somebody reach http://sourceforge.net/projects/eric-ide
[07:37] <ska-fan> need the homepage of eric3?
[07:38] <ska-fan> \sh: I can reach the sf site
[07:38] <\sh> hmmmm..
[07:39] <\sh> now it works..strange..the whole morning and afternoon i couldn't get sf.net
[07:42] <ska-fan> Ah, bist ja auch deutsch
[07:42] <pitti> mdz: btw, Kamion and I talked about the CDROM-in-fstab issue; the problem was that a server install doesn't have pmount, and "mount /cdrom" is still a very common idiom
[07:43] <dholbach> hi
[07:43] <pitti> mdz: so it's questionable whether we want to break server installations and maybe a bunch of other things (apt-cdrom, for example) just to get rid of CD-ROMs in fstab completely
[07:43] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[07:43] <dholbach> elmo: could you pretty please sync  ncmpc  from unstable?
[07:43] <dholbach> hi pitti
[07:43] <Kamion> mdz: the real problem seems to me to be that partman puts the fully resolved device name in fstab, not the /dev/cdrom alias or similar
[07:43] <Kamion> mdz: so I'll have a look at fixing that
[07:44] <pitti> mdz: however, we can change e. g. /dev/hdc to /dev/cdrom if it is available, so that this will survive changing the wiring of CD-ROMs
[07:44] <pitti> right :-)
[07:44] <Kamion> I can also change to /media/cdrom etc. fairly easily if we can confirm that apt-cdrom will be happy without /cdrom
[07:50] <dholbach> hi mako, do you know who Andrs Orellana is?
[07:51] <tseng> (gnome-cups-icon:5798): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030
[07:51] <tseng> pitti do you know why i get this in my log every few seconds?
[07:51] <tseng> are we polling something now
[07:52] <dholbach> hey AndyFitz, you wanted to put some UDU movies online ;-)
[07:52] <pitti> tseng: did you activate network printing?
[07:53] <pitti> tseng: erm, LAN printer detection?
[07:53] <tseng> pitti: not inentionally
[07:53] <tseng> intentionally.
[07:53] <pitti> tseng: in g-cups-manager, is the option set in global settings?
[07:53] <tseng> no
[07:54] <AndyFitz> dholbach,  hey yes.  that would be rad
[07:54] <dholbach> :)
[07:54] <AndyFitz> gotta compress them first
[07:54] <AndyFitz> and get my kernel working first
[07:54] <pitti> tseng: then I assume cups just tries to find an IPP server, but doesn't find one
[07:54] <tseng> pitti: yeah.
[07:54] <bob2> AndyFitz: htf are you still up?
[07:54] <tseng> pitti: i guess its the icon, thats running.
[07:55] <dholbach> hey bob2 :)
[07:55] <pitti> yeah, gnome-cups-icon
[07:55] <tseng> yes.
[07:55] <AndyFitz> bob2:  nah i slept now im awake
[07:55] <bob2> hah
[07:55] <bob2> dholbach: oh, I suck, I know, sorry :)
[07:55] <AndyFitz> audit(1118319949.184:0):initialized
[07:55] <dholbach> bob2: no... you don't - you like "bernd, das brot", which is advanced coolness - for someone not living in germany :)
[07:55] <tseng> jdub: youre such a twat
[07:56] <jdub> :-)
[07:56] <tseng> :)
[07:56] <bob2> hahaha
[07:56] <AndyFitz> jdub,  you're awake tooo ?
[07:57] <mdz> Kamion, pitti: sounds like a reasonable compromise
[07:57] <jdub> yes
[07:57] <jdub> i am having terrible trouble getting back into a sane rhythm
[07:57] <dholbach> bob2: and you're not the only one :)
[07:57] <AndyFitz> insanity
[07:58] <\sh> dholbach: bernd das brot?
[07:58] <dholbach> \sh: yes
[07:58] <dholbach> bob2: jblack is a fan of "bern, das brot" too - and you're not the only one lagging behind key-signing wise :)
[07:58] <\sh> dholbach: u don't talk about this strange tv series?
[07:59] <tseng> i dont think i signed any keys yet
[07:59] <tseng> besides the ones i did while still in sydney
[07:59] <dholbach> \sh: i do: imagine talking to random guys in sydney and you end up talking about "bernd, das brot" in the end...
[07:59] <tseng> dholbach: was ist bernd?
[08:00] <\sh> dholbach: oh my.."who is bundescancelor of germany?" "bernd, das brot"
[08:00] <bob2> dholbach: hehehe
[08:00] <dholbach> tseng: http://www.bernddasbrot.com/
[08:00] <bob2> dholbach: we stayed up late watching it in england
[08:00] <tseng> oh yes I have seen him
[08:00] <bob2> I just wish it had subtitles
[08:01] <bob2> he has a website!
[08:01] <bob2> and a BerndBoard!
[08:01] <dholbach> hahaha
[08:01] <tseng> if he is das brot, i wonder what he eats.
[08:01] <bob2> das boot, maybe?
[08:02] <bob2> "episodenfuhrer" = "episode list"?
[08:02] <dholbach> \sh: here you can see, why i like all these guys :)
[08:02] <dholbach> bob2: yes
[08:02] <tseng> bob2: mmm, steel
[08:02] <jdub> tseng: das keine brot
[08:02] <\sh> well...
[08:03] <dholbach> he has a wikipedia page as well: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_TV and merchandise
[08:03] <bob2> MERCHANDISE?
[08:03] <bob2> oh man
[08:03] <AndyFitz> kernel panic - not syncing : vfs : unable to mount root fs on unknown - block (0,0)
[08:03] <\sh> i wonder why "bernd, das brot" is much more known then helmut schroeder, i mean gerd kohl, ey man, gerhard schroeder and helmut kohl ;)
[08:03] <AndyFitz> bugger me, how did that happen
[08:04] <bob2> helmut the former porn star is awesome, too
[08:04] <bob2> but not many people got to listen to Choice Bro Tafe
[08:06] <\sh> jdub: thx for blogging this nifty picture..right now, i'm thinking about a kde splash with it ;)
[08:09] <pitti> Dear seb128, I want my Applications menu back
[08:10] <dholbach> pitti: i still have it
[08:11] <ogra> dholbach, including the gnome-control-center ? 
[08:11] <dholbach> yes
[08:12] <lamont> infinity: ??
[08:12] <Lathiat> pitti: haha
[08:13] <Kamion> pitti: I ate it. It was crunchy.
[08:13] <pitti> *whine*
[08:14] <lamont> so should we ban CarlFK if he doesn't quit bouncing?
[08:14] <Lathiat> i think so
[08:14] <Treenaks> lamont: maybe for a while
[08:14] <Lathiat> it appeasr to be his fault
[08:23] <Stargazer> I'm running Ubuntu 5.04 PPC with a G3 Lombard.. Can someone give me some advice as to why playing video (divx, qt etc) produces shimmering white dots all over the screen, and when using KDE there is graphic corruption in the title bars, and viewing jpgs everything appears with a yellow film/filter??
[08:27] <sladen> Stargazer:  the 'shimmering' is possibly the result of drawing-whilst the DAC is also reading out the image
[08:27] <sladen> Stargazer: eg.  lack of double-buffering
[08:29] <lsuactiafner>  just.. /ignore CarlFK all
[08:34] <Stargazer> Sladen - How is this fixed?
[08:35] <sladen> Stargazer: daniels maybe to shed some light
[08:36] <doko> seb128: do you have contact with the cairo maintainer?
[08:36] <seb128> doko: no
[08:36] <seb128> why
[08:36] <seb128> ?
[08:37] <doko> to sync cairo for libgcj
[08:37] <seb128> sync cairo where from where?
[08:38] <seb128> I've updated to 0.5 for ubuntu, Debian has 0.4
[08:45] <mdz> wasabi: did you see my question yesterday about xerces-j?  if we can get that out of the dependency chain, we're basically done
[08:45] <mdz> fabbione: so I have discovered further corruption in my filesystem
[08:45] <mdz> and my RAM tests out OK
[08:46] <mdz> I need to pull backups to determine approximately when it happened
[08:47] <mdz> Riddell: please review the anastacia output that elmo provided, seed anything which ought to be seeded, and let me know when we can proceed with demoting the remainder
[08:55] <dholbach> what was the solution for the "fixed font" problem again?
[08:56] <ogra> dholbach, setting the right font path
[09:00] <doko> mdz: currently looking at xerces-java, wasabi is short of time
[09:00] <mdz> dholbach: there were two, one had to do with the font path, the other with the path in mkfontdir
[09:01] <jdub> WITNESS THE POWER OF sebuild!
[09:01] <\sh> jdub: check the planet, dude :) 
[09:01] <seb128> hey jdub :)
[09:01] <dholbach> mdz: i changed so many things, i couldn't remember, when i told a friend
[09:02] <\sh> and why can't I see my links on the planet?
[09:02] <seb128> jdub: I'm considering package gtk CVS (not for the archive but to put the packages online for people who wants to try it)
[09:03] <jdub> the top three blog entries on planet ubuntu are about nudity or bottoms
[09:03] <seb128> jdub: we will not do 10x10 if we keep trying to slow down every single change by fear to break something
[09:03] <dholbach> jdub: we're getting there :)
[09:03] <\sh> jdub: no :)
[09:03] <jdub> seb128: ha ha! :)
[09:03] <\sh> mine is about kde and love
[09:03] <desrt> seb128; i finally convinced davyd to take the battstat patch
[09:03] <seb128> jdub: seriously, is there any reason to be that cautious against gtk?
[09:04] <seb128> desrt: cool
[09:04] <desrt> seb128; just a heads up for when gnome-applets breaks next time you try to patch it
[09:04] <seb128> desrt: I've read the comments on the bug
[09:04] <desrt> oh.  good :)
[09:04] <seb128> you guys are going to roll a 2.11.3 ?
[09:04] <desrt> up to davyd, i guess?
[09:04] <seb128> right
[09:06] <seb128> doko: ?
[09:12] <doko> seb128: !
[09:12] <seb128> doko: 
 to sync cairo for libgcj
 sync cairo where from where?
 I've updated to 0.5 for ubuntu, Debian has 0.4
[09:13] <seb128> is there any issue with 0.5 ?
[09:13] <doko> they need to be in sync for a binary compatible libgcj
[09:13] <seb128> I'm probably to change cairo again soon
[09:14] <seb128> GNOME starts using cairo so I'm probably going to update that with GNOME when required
[09:14] <doko> it's ok if it doesn't change the API, or else we have keep two versions
[09:15] <seb128> it breaks the API
[09:15] <seb128> there are breaking it as much as possible now to get it stable soon
[09:16] <dholbach> why does libgcj want cairo?
[09:16] <doko> fun, then it looks like we will need two versions
[09:16] <doko> dholbach: swing?
[09:16] <dholbach> hmhmmhmh
[09:16] <seb128> doko: what 2 versions?
[09:17] <doko> 0.5 and the version for which you'll break API compatibility
[09:17] <seb128> 0.4 and 0.5 which conflicts?
[09:17] <seb128> versions have to conflict...
[09:17] <doko> why?
[09:18] <seb128> because they keep the same soname
[09:18] <seb128> that's a working branch, no API stability garanty
[09:18] <seb128> so they don't change the soname when they change the API
[09:18] <doko> I don't care, I can rename the lib or choose a random soname
[09:18] <seb128> ugly
[09:18] <doko> upstream looks more ugly
[09:19] <seb128> no
[09:19] <seb128> if you break the API every commit you want to change the soname every time?
[09:19] <doko> no, but for releases.
[09:20] <seb128> that's a working branch, that's not mean to be used by stable apps
[09:20] <dholbach> g*mm for example changes the soname for every api-breaking release in an unstable branch
[09:21] <seb128> dholbach: ...
[09:21] <dholbach> seb128: what? :)
[09:21] <seb128> stop making advertissement for g*mm
[09:22] <dholbach> i don't :)
[09:22] <seb128> I don't care of what they do, that's not the discussion
[09:22] <seb128> :p
[09:22] <seb128> and g*mm is used and follow GNOME
[09:23] <jdub> haha
[09:23] <dholbach> yeah... i talked about the unstable releases
[09:23] <danielki> hehe
[09:23] <danielki> the murrayc virus
[09:23] <dholbach> danielki: want to add some remarks on API stability? :)
[09:23] <seb128> dholbach: I know but still, nothing to do with the discussion :)
[09:24] <danielki> dholbach :)
[09:24] <dholbach> seb128: i wanted to add an example - now stop complaining :)
[09:24] <seb128> dholbach: I complain because I don't like this "I'm going to fork cairo package with a random soname"
[09:25] <dholbach> *nod* somebody should bug upstream imho to change it every release
[09:25] <seb128> let's update cairo on Debian and Ubuntu by following new version
[09:25] <seb128> dholbach: oh, c'mon
[09:25] <seb128> DUDE
[09:25] <seb128> they are working to stabilize it soon so they can use it for gtk2.8
[09:26] <pitti> why oh why all audio stuff is so utterly broken?
[09:26] <seb128> stop bitching about a 0.4/0.5 version of a lib
[09:26] <seb128> better to make all the required changes now
[09:27] <dholbach> seb128: that's cool, but if people want to use it and that's a good thing in the stabilizing process they should try to avoid problems an unchanged soname causes
[09:27] <dholbach> i'm not saying they shouldnt do changes
[09:27] <seb128> you are bitching about details for a 0.n version of a lib
[09:27] <dholbach> and recompiling 2-3 packages that already use the unstable branch doesn't hurt at all
[09:27] <seb128> go to package something useful rather :)
[09:27] <dholbach> i merely pointed out, what i'd do
[09:28] <dholbach> seb128: new gnomecanvasmm is compiling, so i stopped by in the discussion
[09:28] <pitti> dudes, and you two want to cooperate in the Gnome team? :-)
[09:28] <seb128> yeah, he has main upload right now, I'm scared
[09:28] <danielki> heh
[09:28] <doko> pitti: it's easy, rewrite gnome in C# ;)
[09:29] <pitti> doko: ah, and mono has The Perfect Sound Driver?
[09:29] <dholbach> doko: you don't want that :)
[09:30] <seb128> dholbach: gtkmm 2.6.2
[09:30] <seb128> dholbach: oh, glibmm 2.7.1, be ready, that will start beeing fun soon
[09:30] <dholbach> yeah
[09:30] <ogra> doko, Novell does that after they brought yast in as a control-center replacement ;)
[09:39] <\sh> can someone explain, why the gpl and openssl license are not compatible? 
[09:43] <\sh> why is apache license and gpl license not compatible
[09:47] <\sh> i got it ...:(
[09:50] <bokko> What are possible alternatives to set for a mount point when doing a virgin ubuntu install?  Other Linux distributions may complain if there is another / mount point it sees on a different partition.
[09:51] <tseng> a what?
[09:51] <tseng> linux doesnt know where you are mounting a device until you tell it
[09:51] <bokko> What else can I use besides / for a mount point for installation?
[09:51] <tseng> or hal decides for you, in modern times.
[09:51] <tseng> you can use anything you want
[09:52] <bokko> well rhfc3 does not like seeing a / mount point on a different partition
[09:52] <bokko> can I just make something up and mount it there?
[09:52] <tseng> common for auxillary devices would be /media/foo or /mnt/foo
[09:52] <tseng> fedora core doesnt know what a / mount point is.. it sees a partition
[09:53] <bokko> tseng: it saw ubuntu mounted on / when I did the install last time
[09:53] <bokko> tseng: terminated the install and said fix it
[09:53] <tseng> oh the installer?
[09:54] <bokko> tseng: yeah, I was booting from the cd to try and fix grb since the ubuntu grub install ignored freebsd on the first partition
[09:55] <danielki> well I doubt the problem has anything to do with mount points
[09:56] <dholbach> seb128: straaange, i packaged gtkmm 2.6.2 a month ago
[09:56] <bokko> danielki: not entirely, I just was not sure if / was a requisite for any sort of linux install
[09:56] <danielki> 'cause those aren't stored on the partitions but in fstab
[09:56] <seb128> dholbach: weird
[09:56] <danielki> every Unix needs a /
[09:57] <bokko> danielki:oh ok
[09:57] <dholbach> seb128: murrayc seems to have released new code with an old release number
[09:57] <dholbach> seb128: but i'll have another look
[09:57] <seb128> dholbach: the tarball would have been rejected I think
[09:57] <dholbach> have a look at ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/gtkmm/2.6/
[09:58] <dholbach> gtkmm-2.6.2.news  	1 KB  	15.04.2005
[09:58] <dholbach> gtkmm-2.6.2.tar.gz  	5865 KB  	09.06.2005  	
[09:58] <seb128> k, so he has overwritten the previous tarball
[09:58] <seb128> kick him :)
[09:58] <danielki> murrayc sometimes forgets stuff like this :)
[09:58] <bokko> Ok here is one other different question, I had ubuntu 5.4 installed and the nick was seend by the hardware browser, but it could not get an ip address from the router.  I modified the dhclient.conf to add a , and interface-mtu line in it as well as disabling ip6. still not ip.  Static assignments to valid ip4 address could not connect to the gateway, andy idea what is wrong?
[09:58] <dholbach> i see :)
[09:59] <danielki> no wonder considering the huge number of projects he's usually working on in parallel
[09:59] <bokko> seend = seen
[09:59] <tseng> bokko: did you read the topic btw
[09:59] <dholbach> danielki: i absolutely don't blame him
[09:59] <danielki> dholbach: usually he realizes it before uploading the tarball, though :)
[09:59] <jdub> seb128: man, i am going to put a very noisy fascist scream in install-module when someone tries to overwrite a tarball
[09:59] <dholbach> jdub: do it now! :)
[10:00] <seb128> jdub: good idea, I thought he would reject the upload or at lest DISPLAY SOMETHING SCARY
[10:00] <bokko> tseng: yeah, people told me to come here and ask since no one seemed to know the prob in #ubuntu
[10:00] <tseng> those people should stop suggesting that.
[10:01] <tseng> we should note that for the new "newbie help squad" team.
[10:01] <bokko> haha well I am about to wipe ubuntu and just go with rhfc3 and solaris
[10:01] <bokko> if I can't get the network stuff working
[10:01] <bokko> dhclient.conf mod and disabling ip6 was wat the forums suggested
[10:02] <dholbach> bokko: you might try the mailing list ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:02] <justin> bokko: most likely another fix that someone came up with after "fixing a similar problem" which isn't similar at all
[10:02] <bokko> dholbach: oh ok 
[10:03] <bokko> justin: yeah but it was all I came across when I googled the network problem in 5.4
[10:03] <bokko> justin: hardware works cause other OS on the same machine can grab from the dhcp and route
[10:04] <bokko> justin: I'll see what listserv has or just uninstall, fiddled with this thing for 2 days trying to get net working, probably not going to waste any more time on it...thanks for your time
[10:05] <tseng> hm
[10:05] <tseng> alt.erotica.ubuntu.networking
[10:05] <tseng> might have something
[10:06] <danielki> haha
[10:07] <dholbach> i guess i'll wait for him to re-release :)
[10:09] <danielki> yep
[10:09] <danielki> shall I whack him for you? :)
[10:09] <seb128> dholbach: waouh, upload to main :)
[10:10] <dholbach> seb128: you're right... it was my first one!
[10:10] <dholbach> seb128: first one without training wheels
[10:10] <seb128> congrats
[10:10] <dholbach> seb128: WOW, does that feel good!
[10:10] <seb128> you call me wheel?
[10:11] <dholbach> seb128: of course not... nobody could re-invent you :)
[10:11] <dholbach> danielki: don't worry... he'll manage :)
[10:12] <dholbach> and pitti is not here... he couldn't witness gnome love :)
[10:13] <mvo> group hug?
[10:13] <dholbach> if somebody would blog this to planet.ubuntu ... ubuntu and its community was even more questionable ;)
[10:16] <tseng> so i removed every copy of the tomboy pixmap on my system
[10:16] <tseng> and it still comes up
[10:16] <tseng> with tintin
[10:17] <tseng> i wonder if he rolled it into the exe or something in cvs
[10:17] <tseng> something is evil.
[10:18] <dholbach> tseng: did you ever hear about audio images, like in  http://www.bastwood.com/aphex.php ?
[10:19] <dholbach> must be in some .mp3 file :)
[10:19] <tseng> hm no
[10:19] <tseng> thats crazy
[10:19] <dholbach> audio images are the geekiest thing i ever saw
[10:23] <dholbach> but it'd explain a lot if aphex twin tried to make his songs *look* good ;-)
[10:29] <seb128> dholbach: \o/ (new upload)
[10:29] <dholbach> wowoohoo
[10:29] <dholbach> excellent
[10:36] <doko> elmo: please could you install on davis/breezy: unixodbc-dev firefox-dev kdelibs4-dev libarts1-dev libqt3-mt-dev libsndfile1-dev epm libdb4.3-dev libdb4.3-java libboost-dev sablotron libsablot0-dev libwpd8-dev
[10:38] <martink> looks suspiciously like ooo build deps
[10:39] <elmo> doko: doesn't seem to know about libdb4.3-java, but otherwise done
[10:41] <doko> ok, then libdb4.2-dev and libdb4.2-java
[10:42] <dholbach> elmo: could you pretty please sync  ncmpc  from unstable (if you didn't do so already)
[10:42] <elmo> doko: done
[10:42] <doko> elmo: thanks
[10:42] <elmo> dholbach: no
[10:43] <elmo>  [dpkg-source output:]  dpkg-source: error: file ncmpc_0.11.1.orig.tar.gz has size 273803 instead of expected 273489 
[10:43] <dholbach> oh nice
[10:43] <elmo> we have a different orig.tar.gz to Debian
[10:43] <dholbach> argl
[10:43] <dholbach> ok
[10:44] <dholbach> will ask him, what went wrong there
[10:44] <dholbach> thanks
[10:55] <doko> elmo: ubuntu-changes-auto is not announced on http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/
[10:59] <mdz> doko: fixed
[11:00] <mdz> doko: any luck with xerces-j?
[11:11] <elmo> doko: tell jdub
[11:14] <zyga> pitti: hello
[11:14] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[11:15] <zyga> do you know about any portable FILE * style library with customizable streams that can be used without glibc?
[11:15] <elmo> dholbach: who uploaded that ncmpc?
[11:15] <Nafallo> pitti: you're aware of luks-tools?
[11:16] <pitti> zyga: no, sorry
[11:16] <pitti> Nafallo: erm, no?
[11:16] <Nafallo> pitti: http://www.flyn.org/projects/luks-tools/index.html
[11:16] <dholbach> elmo: me, he sent me the adjusted patches - it will unfortunately be only fixed with a new upstream release
[11:16] <zyga> I ran into portability problems unfortunatly
[11:17] <elmo> dholbach: it was for 'unstable', didn't have a valid Changed-By and didn't have an 'ubuntu' in the version
[11:17] <zyga> it seems that my favourite argument vector parser argp is tied to glibc stream implementation
[11:17] <pitti> Nafallo: neat, thanks :-)
[11:17] <zyga> and thus it cannot be used in portable code :/
[11:17] <zyga> (lowest common denominator strikes again)
[11:18] <dholbach> elmo: thank you for telling me... arg - there you see what apt-get.org remnants do with me...
[11:27] <ska-fan> How do I find out which package has ppmmake? xscreensaver's webcollage needs it.
[11:27] <dholbach> dlocate or apt-file
[11:27] <dholbach> or http://packages.ubuntu.com
[11:41] <elmo> dear god why is apache-mod-auth-pam in main??
[11:42] <Nafallo> elmo: you're cleaning? ;-)
[11:49] <tseng> elmo: i fixed the gtkhtml stuff just for you
[11:49] <elmo> tseng: cheers
[11:52] <elmo> DOKO YOU ARE THE SUCK
[11:52] <tseng> oh man
[11:54] <ogra> pheew
[11:55] <mako> (btw: the ubuntu manifesto is going to totally rock)
[11:55] <mdz> mako: so apparently meta-userlinux is in hoary-updates/universe
[11:56] <mdz> the binaries don't seem to be there, though
[11:56] <elmo> can't we just call it screwyouandthetrademarkhorseyourodeinon and be done with it?
[11:56] <elmo> the binaries have a iiinteresting REJDCT
[11:57] <mako> listen, if the option is "do insane shit and take it out now to avoid criticism" and "wait until IF someone says anything and then do the above" i say take the later
[11:57] <elmo> ejected: meta-ul-desktop-base_0.02-1ubuntu2_all.deb: md5sum check failed.
[11:57] <elmo> Rejected: meta-ul-desktop-base_0.02-1ubuntu2_all.deb: actual file size (3230) does not match size (3218) in .changes
[11:57] <mako> elmo: 
[11:57] <mako> ?
[11:57] <dilinger> mako: is the spectre of Free haunting ubuntu?  is ubuntu planning to throw off the shackles that have bound it to lesser distributions?
[11:57] <mdz> we shouldn't do a halfassed job of it; if we're going to remove the name from the packages, we should do that
[11:58] <elmo> mako: that Should Not Happen
[11:58] <elmo> (tm)
[11:58] <mdz> the other 12 bytes were for the angels
[11:59] <elmo> that's just like  crack
[11:59] <elmo> to be bigger in the .changes
[11:59] <elmo> the otherway round I can understand/conceive of how it would happen, but err.. 
[11:59] <elmo> the deb itself is valid too
[11:59] <mako> userlinux puts the meta in metapackages
[11:59] <mdz> and the sig on the .changes is valid?
[11:59] <elmo> mdz: yeah
[12:00] <mako> or rather, the dyna in metapackages
[12:00] <mako> dilinger: i read like 5 manifestos this afternoond and then did the outline and intro
[12:00] <mdz> first I get silent data corruption on my desktop
[12:00] <mdz> and now this
[12:00] <mdz> maybe we're all pwned
[12:00] <mdz> or maybe there's increased sunspot activity