[12:02] <mdke> thesaltydog, i suppose anyone who uses ddclient will know what ip address means
[12:02] <thesaltydog> ok. I was saying just that!!
[12:03] <mdke> is it installed by default in Ubuntu?
[12:03] <thesaltydog> no!
[12:03] <mdke> ok then
[12:03] <mdke> ip address it is ;)
[12:04] <thesaltydog> wonderful
[12:04] <thesaltydog> another issue..
[12:04] <mdke> Burgundavia, tell me who to CC and stuff
[12:04] <thesaltydog> for apache I have just put: Web Server
[12:04] <thesaltydog> but someone has changed it to : "Apache web server"
[12:04] <thesaltydog> this is not needed
[12:04] <mdke> oh
[12:04] <mdke> i suppose that is to distinguish it from apache2
[12:05] <Burgundavia> mdke, contact.gepolabo@free.fr
[12:05] <thesaltydog> as BUM displays: <scriptname> : <description>
[12:05] <Burgundavia> thesaltydog, I changed it
[12:05] <Burgundavia> ah
[12:05] <thesaltydog> ok  Burg, thank for the rest
[12:05] <Burgundavia> I didn't realize that
[12:05] <thesaltydog> you couldn't know...
[12:05] <mdke> ah ic
[12:05] <thesaltydog> you did a nice job
[12:05] <mdke> Burgundavia, wanna give me a spiel or shall I copy the product description in launchpad?
[12:06] <Burgundavia> just copy the descrip
[12:06] <Burgundavia> the program isn't even in Ubuntu yet
[12:06] <mdke> k kewl
[12:06] <thesaltydog> So Matt, when you edit the descriptions, keep in mind that users see also the script name. This could help.
[12:07] <mdke> thesaltydog, yes i will :)
[12:07] <mdke> Burgundavia, maybe ubuntu-translators is slightly out of place then, thoughts?
[12:07] <mdke> still, the list is so low traffic that it might wake them up
[12:08] <Burgundavia> yes it would
[12:08] <Burgundavia> the plan is to package is sooner or later
[12:08] <thesaltydog> goodnight to all
[12:08] <mdke> night fabio
[12:08] <mdke> Burgundavia, ok yeah
[12:08] <Burgundavia> if it gets lots of translation updates, I will get off my lazy ass and get it packaged
[12:09] <mdke> interesting app
[12:09] <mdke> a friend of mine was working on something similar
[12:09] <mdke> not open source tho i don't think
[12:10] <mdke> the first version of it is actually trading i think
[12:13] <mdke> email sent
[12:13] <Burgundavia> mdke, cheers, thanks
[12:14] <mdke> bcced you
[12:16] <Burgundavia> got it
[12:17] <Burgundavia> http://gbtcr.chileforge.cl/screenshots/audio_control.png
[12:20] <mdke> *laughs*
[12:22] <SquishyWaffle> argh
[02:10] <mdke> hello kassetra Kinnison 
[02:10] <kassetra> Hiya :)
[02:10] <kassetra> So I'm going over these pages and pages of backports-meeting log....
[02:10] <mdke> :/
[02:10] <kassetra> And I'm still uncertain what exactly I'm trying to do, other than cut & paste sections around.
[02:11] <mdke> i guess a general summary of decisions taken
[02:11] <mdke> bullet points are very cool
[02:11] <mdke> but i missed most of the meeting, so i don't know what it was like
[02:11] <kassetra> long.
[02:11] <kassetra> very very long.
[02:11] <mdke> yeah
[02:12] <mdke> there was some officialisation of the backports, is that right?
[02:12] <kassetra> yeah.
[02:12] <mdke> they will be in ubuntu repos?
[02:12] <kassetra> yep.
[02:12] <mdke> thats cool
[02:12] <kassetra> very cool.
[02:12] <mdke> when will that start?
[02:12] <mdke> and who will work on them?
[02:12] <kassetra> we're working on the integration right now, if I'm not mistaken.
[02:13] <kassetra> jdong and his team.
[02:13] <mdke> right
[02:13] <mdke> excellent
[02:13] <mdke> and will the problems that the devs are always whinghing about be sorted?
[02:14] <mdke> whatever those problems are
[02:15] <kassetra> LOL we sorted 99% of them out in the meeting.
[02:16] <mdke> good stuff
[02:16] <kassetra> yeah, another reason the meeting was so long.
[02:16] <mdke> so will the backports just go into ubuntu-updates?
[02:16] <mdke> or a separate repo
[02:16] <kassetra> I believe (not down to that part yet of the log) that they'll have their own repo... 
[02:16] <kassetra> but don't quote me on that.
[02:31] <mdke> way to go Troy Williams
[02:31] <mdke> whoever you are
[02:54] <jdub> mpt: around?
[03:41] <jsgotangco> morning
[03:43] <mdke> morning dude
[03:45] <jsgotangco> hmmm another patch
[03:46] <jsgotangco> single patch for 3 books?
[03:48] <mdke> better check it out
[03:48] <mdke> you're the kde man ;)
[03:48] <jsgotangco> argghh
[03:48] <jsgotangco> (i dont even use kubuntu lately)
[03:48] <mdke> well you've used it ;)
[03:49] <mdke> hopefully the patches will be good and you can commit em
[03:49] <jsgotangco> i should remind people to patch small
[03:49] <mdke> good idea
[03:49] <jsgotangco> 3 in 1 patch ain't so great for me
[03:49] <SquishyWaffle> What do you mean you haven't been using Kubuntu lately?:)
[03:49] <jsgotangco> uh oh caught
[03:50] <jsgotangco> i've been into the color of poo lately
[03:50] <jsgotangco> and bad fonts
[03:50] <SquishyWaffle> Gnome?
[03:50] <mdke> bad fonts?
[03:50] <mdke> my god
[03:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:50] <jsgotangco> dude
[03:50] <mdke> anything from sean jsgotangco ?
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ask amu and Riddell
[03:51] <mdke> oh yeah cos they're not biased
[03:51] <jsgotangco> KDE is far more superior
[03:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:51] <jsgotangco> mdke, he updated the wiki
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i think he's taking his time
[03:51] <mdke> the meeting page?
[03:51] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i even checked email around midnight to see if he reacted
[03:51] <jsgotangco> im glad he updated the wiki
[03:52] <jsgotangco> he has a grasp of things far better than us combined
[03:52] <mdke> stupid wiki
[03:52] <mdke> can't see his diffs
[03:52] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:52] <jsgotangco> pretty dumb
[03:53] <SquishyWaffle> wish they'd get the new wiki in, this one is so sloowww
[03:53] <jsgotangco> mdke, for now, let's freeze global.ent to those with commit access
[03:53] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, tuesday
[03:53] <SquishyWaffle> woohoo!
[03:53] <jsgotangco> no patches to global.ent for now
[03:53] <mdke> jsgotangco, i don't mind, its not like they are difficult to check
[03:53] <mdke> as long as entities are added and not removed
[03:54] <jsgotangco> ill check the links this weekend
[03:54] <jsgotangco> and just group them together
[03:54] <mdke> i have to go sleep
[03:54] <mdke> Thu Jun  9 02:54:49 BST 2005
[03:54] <jsgotangco> 3AM?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:55] <SquishyWaffle> only 10 here :)
[03:55] <mdke> :/
[03:55] <mdke> night then
[03:55] <SquishyWaffle> cya
[03:55] <jsgotangco> my wife would kill me if im still awake at that time
[03:55] <jsgotangco> cya
[03:55] <jsgotangco> SquishyWaffle, 10am here
[03:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:55] <SquishyWaffle> my she-boss isn't in town right now
[03:55] <SquishyWaffle> am therefore immune to the "oh my god you've been up really late" attackthing
[03:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i'll review this patch first
[03:56] <jsgotangco> SquishyWaffle, nice job on the kquickguide
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i missed that toolbar stuff
[03:56] <SquishyWaffle> thanks, today has been busy otherwise I would've had some more ready. I've been turning it over in my head though
[03:56] <jsgotangco> its ok no rush
[03:56] <jsgotangco> we will make targets next week
[03:57] <SquishyWaffle> cool. Did we have a section on CD ripping?
[03:57] <SquishyWaffle> or is there more a kuserguide rather than quickguide topic?
[03:57] <jsgotangco> you can probably do that kind of stuff on the userguide
[03:57] <jsgotangco> the quickguide should just be a visual tour
[03:57] <SquishyWaffle> ok, so quickguide is bare minimum to get you up and going and userguide is thorough
[03:57] <jsgotangco> that's why i put up this table at the last part
[03:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:58] <jsgotangco> that's the idea
[03:58] <SquishyWaffle> do you want me to make screenshots of the toolbar elements?
[03:58] <jsgotangco> sure use imagemagick
[03:58] <jsgotangco> i'm almost done with the screenshots of the other apps
[03:59] <jsgotangco> just send the png personally to me when you're ready
[03:59] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, i didn't want to go take many since I remember you saying that
[03:59] <jsgotangco> i should talk to amu or Riddell about the roadmap though
[03:59] <jsgotangco> screenshots can be a chore
[04:17] <jsgotangco> hmm the patches are rejected
[04:17] <jsgotangco> should request for smaller ones then
[07:20] <mpt> jdub: pong
[09:14] <jsgotangco> ealden, ping
[09:20] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:27] <ealden> jsgotangco, pong :D
[09:56] <jsgotangco> ealden, intersted in helping out?
[10:03] <ealden> Yep.  I'm studying how this team works based on the wiki...
[10:04] <ealden> The initial checkout is a pain over dialup :D
[10:07] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:07] <jsgotangco> ill be uploading a ton of PNGs soon
[10:07] <jsgotangco> :)
[10:07] <ealden> Overnight checkouts, then :P
[10:08] <jsgotangco> i'll expect your patches then
[10:09] <ealden> :) 
[10:10] <jsgotangco> you better svn up before making any edits though
[10:10] <jsgotangco> if you like a gui front end for svn, try getting esvn from universe
[10:12] <ealden> Hrrm, QT based
[10:15] <ealden> I'm getting it now
[10:15] <ealden> Err... apt-getting..
[10:15] <ealden> Or whatever term is applicable :P
[10:16] <jsgotangco> checking out
[10:18] <ealden> Ah
[10:48] <jsgotangco> enrico!
[10:49] <enrico> hi!
[10:52] <jsgotangco> enrico, we'll be having a meeting next week, hope it'll work out fine
[10:52] <jsgotangco> enrico, things have been pretty rough, but i guess we'll manage
[10:52] <enrico> jsgotangco: meeting with whom?
[10:52] <jsgotangco> docteam meeting
[10:52] <jsgotangco> you didnt get the email?
[10:52] <enrico> In the list?
[10:52] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:00] <enrico> jsgotangco: found
[11:00] <enrico> that's good
[11:01] <enrico> I don't believe one CC meeting can fix something that requires people from two different groups changing habit, but it's at least a start
[11:01] <jsgotangco> well yeah at least both should have a compromise
[11:02] <jsgotangco> now that froud's been pretty quiet, i think a dialogue is required more than ever
[11:03] <jsgotangco> altough i am glad he updated the wiki page
[11:04] <mdke> morning guys
[11:04] <jsgotangco> mdke, hey
[11:05] <mdke> hey jsgotangco 
[11:05] <mdke> alright?
[11:06] <jsgotangco> mm?
[11:07] <mdke> as in, how's it going?
[11:08] <jsgotangco> dude, i'm hooked on media wiki
[11:08] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:09] <mdke> green tea and mediawiki
[11:09] <mdke> a powerful combination
[11:09] <mdke> Sean texted me back this morning
[11:10] <jsgotangco> hmm is it good?
[11:10] <mdke> he seems ok, he said that he'd had good conversations with mako and henrik
[11:10] <mdke> and that he would try and help us out if needed, but that his decision was to take a break from the team
[11:11] <jsgotangco> ahhh i was expecting that
[11:11] <jsgotangco> he told me he'd rather focus on fringe projects
[11:11] <mdke> well if you have docbook questions I'm sure he won't mind answering them
[11:12] <jsgotangco> yeah but that also means we'll have to work more
[11:13] <mdke> well can do what we can
[11:13] <mdke> well/we
[11:13] <jsgotangco> we'll get there
[11:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:13] <mdke> you know how the forum has labels for users, like "Ubuntu developer" and stuff
[11:13] <mdke> there's one which is "forum donator"
[11:13] <mdke> :-(
[11:14] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:14] <jsgotangco> ranks suck
[11:14] <mdke> so much
[11:14] <mdke> but don't worry, you can buy one!
[11:14] <jsgotangco> i rarely go to the forums
[11:14] <jsgotangco> hah
[11:14] <jsgotangco> backports is pretty big over there though
[11:15] <mdke> yes
[11:15] <jsgotangco> main, mediawiki is soo coooler than moin
[11:15] <jsgotangco> skinning this looks difficult though
[11:16] <jsgotangco> no wonder mediawiki powered wikis look the same
[11:16] <ealden> *listens with great interest*
[11:17] <jsgotangco> mdke, so much for the portal
[11:17] <mdke> ?
[11:18] <jsgotangco> the docteam portal project
[11:18] <mdke> what about it?
[11:18] <jsgotangco> are we going to pusue it?
[11:18] <jsgotangco> i'd rather fix what's in svn for now
[11:19] <jsgotangco> along with the wiki stuff to be ported
[11:19] <mdke> well henrik has a good idea about this
[11:19] <mdke> to separate out what people are doing
[11:19] <jsgotangco> good thing henrik is diving in
[11:19] <mdke> group 1. works on the existing methodology and svn and such
[11:19] <mdke> group 2. pursues new technologies
[11:20] <mdke> yeah henrik is cool
[11:20] <mdke> naturally that idea doesn't stop people from doing things in both groups
[11:20] <jsgotangco> true
[11:20] <jsgotangco> "2 cultures"
[11:20] <mdke> just focuses work a bit more, and prevents the current work from getting slowed down
[11:22] <mdke> the 2 cultures thing refers to the divide between science and humanities
[11:22] <mdke> in this case, i think he meant science (devel) and humanities (doc)
[11:24] <mdke> not sure if it works, but its an interesting idea
[11:32] <jsgotangco> i thought i read devil
[11:32] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:33] <mdke> hey do you have an ubuntu t-shirt
[11:33] <mdke> i need an ubuntu t-shirt
[11:34] <jsgotangco> did you ask henrik?
[11:34] <jsgotangco> i have 2
[11:35] <jsgotangco> or probably claire
[11:35] <mdke> who is claire?
[11:35] <jsgotangco> claire puts order in mark's life in Uk
[11:35] <jsgotangco> email her
[11:35] <jsgotangco> claire@canonical.com
[11:35] <mdke> right
[11:36] <jsgotangco> you're in london right
[11:36] <mdke> i am
[11:36] <mdke> simira was going to start an ubuntu shop
[11:36] <mdke> i wonder if she got anywhere with that
[11:37] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:37] <jsgotangco> cafepress?
[11:37] <jsgotangco> we have brown shirts
[11:39] <jsgotangco> mdke, were you able to read thart article on sabdfl that was sent in sounder
[11:39] <mdke> erm
[11:39] <mdke> i'm not subscribed
[11:39] <jsgotangco> where is that
[11:39] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[11:40] <jsgotangco> http://free.financialmail.co.za/05/0603/cover/coverstory.htm
[11:42] <mdke> thanks
[11:43] <mdke> "By 2010," Shuttleworth predicts, "Linux will have displaced proprietary software on the desktop."
[11:43] <mdke> *grins*
[11:43] <mdke> whatever
[11:45] <mdke> south kensington eh
[11:46] <jsgotangco> wonder when would be the time i can go to space
[12:05] <mdke> ok i'll see y'all later
[12:06] <ealden> Bye mdke 
[12:07] <jsgotangco> later
[01:58] <mdke> *grins*
[01:58] <mdke> a gnome bug closed in less than 10 minutes
[01:58] <mdke> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=307013
[01:58] <mdke> dunno where they got their reputation for not listening to users from
[02:10] <ealden> Bitter LOL :) 
[02:11] <mdke> *grins*
[02:29] <mdke> i'm not letting it go..
[02:30] <ealden> Oh
[02:30] <jjesse> ?
[02:30] <mdke> ;)
[02:30] <ealden> Hehe
[02:30] <mdke> ealden, i've filed another bug with an alternative solution
[02:30] <mdke> #307019
[02:35] <ealden> Checking...
[02:37] <ealden> mdke, you aren't using Nautilus in spatial mode?
[02:37] <mdke> no
[02:38] <ealden> I see...
[02:38] <ealden> Nice find
[02:38] <mdke> a guy on #ubuntu-it did it
[02:39] <ealden> Oh
[02:39] <mdke> i'm just passing on ideas
[02:39] <ealden> Hehe
[02:39] <mdke> we need multilingual bugzilla
[02:40] <ealden> Yes
[02:40] <ealden> I just realized that I have never used the Notes feature heh
[02:41] <mdke> me neither until today
[02:41] <mdke> its awesome tho
[02:41] <ealden> Hey this is cool!
[02:42] <ealden> A big notes emblem appeared!
[02:42] <ealden> Wow!
[02:43] <ealden> Are notes preserved across computers?
[02:43] <mdke> no they are saved locally to nautilus i think
[03:02] <ealden> mdke, yeah, I tried hehe
[03:02] <ealden> mdke, makes sense for it to be local only though
[03:19] <SquishyWaffle> gooood morning #ubuntu-doc
[03:20] <mdke> morning SquishyWaffle 
[03:20] <SquishyWaffle> playing with the Gnome devs today? :)
[03:31] <mdke> hmm
[03:31] <mdke> who knows how to work with diffs in svn?
[03:33] <mgalvin> mdke, this may help
[03:33] <mgalvin> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/re09.html
[03:33] <mdke> thanks
[03:33] <mgalvin> np
[03:34] <mdke> i am looking at a diff already, and want to figure out how to apply some, not all of it in svn
[03:34] <mdke> should I manually edit the diff?
[03:35] <SquishyWaffle> don't you patch your local copy then commit it?
[03:36] <mgalvin> yes, you want to patch what you have with the diff, man patch
[03:36] <mdke> yes
[03:36] <mgalvin> i am not sure if you can apply just part of a diff
[03:37] <mdke> hmm
[03:37] <SquishyWaffle> you can with some manual edits :)
[03:37] <mdke> i'll try just deleting the part i don't like
[03:37] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, that's your best met
[03:37] <SquishyWaffle> be
[03:37] <SquishyWaffle> bet, crap I can't spell today
[03:39] <SquishyWaffle> are you patching one of the KDE guides or am I safe to start tinkering?
[03:39] <mdke> yeah i am
[03:39] <mdke> gimme a bit
[03:39] <mdke> you can tinker anyway
[03:39] <SquishyWaffle> ok, I'll see if I can get the Kynaptic doc to parse
[03:40] <mdke> does it not parse?
[03:40] <SquishyWaffle> not for us KDE guys
[03:40] <mdke> we have a validate script that checks the xml
[03:40] <SquishyWaffle> well it parses but it's a huge blob of unbroken text
[03:40] <mdke> you can use it to check the xml ./validate.sh
[03:41] <SquishyWaffle> there's something seriously wrong with it :(
[03:42] <SquishyWaffle> gtaylor@gislinux1:~/ubuntu-doc/kde/kynaptic/C$ yelp kynaptic.xml
[03:42] <SquishyWaffle> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/home/gtaylor/.gnome2/yelp-bookmarks.xbel"
[03:42] <SquishyWaffle> /bin/sh: /usr/bin/esd: No such file or directory
[03:43] <mdke> thats because you're not using gnome i presume
[03:43] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, but it's a KDE guide
[03:43] <mdke> but if the xml is valid, that's all you can do
[03:43] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, yelp is for gnome
[03:43] <SquishyWaffle> but is there any other way to read it other than yelp from KDE?
[03:43] <mdke> create an html out of it
[03:43] <SquishyWaffle> argh
[03:44] <mdke> applying parts of a patch is hard
[03:44] <mdke> i can't be bothered
[03:50] <mdke> ok
[03:50] <mdke> controversial question about how to spell vice-versa
[03:50] <mdke> we have vise-verse vis-a-verse
[03:51] <SquishyWaffle> I hear vice-versa a lot more
[03:51] <mdke> yeah that's the correct one i'm sure
[03:57] <SquishyWaffle> Which one of you were working on the Style Guide?
[03:57] <mdke> jeff-away
[03:57] <SquishyWaffle> ok
[04:06] <SquishyWaffle> in the StyleGuide, there's a section called 'Document Structure'. Should I put the list of tags there or create another section, keeping in mind that as per his layout, each section = 1 additional file.
[04:06] <mdke> is this on the wiki or in svn?
[04:06] <SquishyWaffle> the svn Style Guide
[04:07] <mdke> hmm
[04:07] <mdke> maybe separate doc? Probably best to ask jeff tho
[04:07] <SquishyWaffle> document structure could be many things in my mind
[04:07] <SquishyWaffle> yeah, any idea when he's usually around?
[04:07] <mdke> you've made an xml version of the wiki page?
[04:07] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, not sure when he's around
[04:07] <SquishyWaffle> I'm about to
[04:07] <SquishyWaffle> As per his request
[04:07] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, if you like you can consider testing our wiki->docbook script which mvirkkil wrote
[04:08] <SquishyWaffle> where is this located?
[04:08] <mdke> ubuntu-docs/teamstuff/moin2db
[04:08] <mdke> there's a readme
[04:09] <SquishyWaffle> checking it out
[04:16] <mvirkkil> I haven't heard anything regarding my svn access :(
[04:16] <mdke> you mailed elmo?
[04:17] <mdke> he's a busy guy
[04:17] <mdke> i'll stress him
[04:17] <mdke> mvirkkil, you mailed him your key?
[04:17] <mvirkkil> mdke: Yeah, a while ago.
[04:18] <mdke> what number is it?
[04:18] <mvirkkil> mdke: number?
[04:18] <mdke> your key
[04:19] <mvirkkil> mdke: Ugh. I haven't got it here. I'm at work.
[04:19] <mdke> i can't find it on the keyservers
[04:19] <mdke> ok we'll see if elmo can find it
[04:20] <mvirkkil> mdke: What keyserver should I submit it to? (ie. preferred?)
[04:20] <mdke> they all sync each other
[04:20] <mdke> but you don't have to upload it, its up to you
[04:21] <mdke> mvirkkil, have you got updates for that script?
[04:21] <mvirkkil> mdke: I haven't uploaded it, since I figured no one would need to use it. 
[04:21] <mdke> fair enough
[04:21] <mvirkkil> mdke: I was thinking on working on it a bit tonight.
[04:21] <mdke> ok we'll get you added
[04:21] <mvirkkil> mdke: Thanks :)
[04:23] <mdke> no one called mikko has a gpg key on the keyservers
[04:23] <mdke> must be a rare name
[04:23] <mvirkkil> mdke: One of the most common first names for boys in finland.
[04:23] <mdke> bizarre
[04:23] <mvirkkil> mdke: Might even be the most common.
[04:23] <mdke> gpg: key "mikko" not found on keyserver
[04:29] <mdke> mvirkkil, ok looks good
[04:30] <mvirkkil> mdke: Thanks :) Has anyone fixed stuff there? Any suggestions what to fix first? 
[04:30] <mdke> on the script?
[04:30] <mdke> not a clue
[04:30] <mdke> but SquishyWaffle is about to test it :D
[04:31] <mvirkkil> mdke: On his own server?
[04:31] <mdke> no he's gonna try converting a wiki page to a docbook file
[04:32] <mvirkkil> mdke: What wiki is he using?
[04:32] <mdke> ours
[04:32] <mvirkkil> mdke: url?
[04:32] <SquishyWaffle> Oh, I have to install the actual Wiki software to use it?
[04:33] <mdke> DocteamDocBookTags
[04:33] <mdke> i didn't realise that ;)
[04:33] <mvirkkil> SquishyWaffle: It's an output formatter for the moin wiki. It's integrated to the wiki itself, and is used directly
[04:33] <mvirkkil> mdke: The documentation should say that...
[04:33] <mdke> possibly
[04:34] <mdke> i've not seen the script yet
[04:34] <mvirkkil> Remember that you need to have the latest version
[04:34] <mdke> i thought it would convert files with moin tho
[04:34] <mvirkkil> >(moin--main--1.3--patch-725 was my version) to be able to use it.
[04:34] <mdke> so mvirkkil we need to install a wikiserver to use it?
[04:35] <mvirkkil> SquishyWaffle: We discussed the way to implement it with Henrik Omma and concluded that this would be the most elegant/longlived approach.
[04:35] <mdke> is it implemented in the test wiki?
[04:36] <mvirkkil> I've talked to moin developers, and it should be pretty easy to get it pused to upstream
[04:36] <SquishyWaffle> that'd be nice
[04:36] <mdke> yeah
[04:36] <SquishyWaffle> and the test wiki is going live tuesday?
[04:36] <mvirkkil> mdke: I've only tested it with my own wiki, directly from the tla repository.
[04:36] <mdke> right
[04:36] <mdke> so it may not work with the new moin wiki?
[04:37] <mvirkkil> The moin devs fixed several bugs as I was coding and pointing them out to them.
[04:37] <mdke> ok
[04:37] <mvirkkil> What's the url to the web interface to the svn?
[04:38] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[04:38] <mdke> mvirkkil, so sounds like the best thing is to get the thing in upstream
[04:39] <mdke> is there any way that the docteam can use it for converting Ubuntu wiki pages to docbook documents? 
[04:40] <mvirkkil> mdke: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/moin2db/manual
[04:40] <mdke> i see it
[04:40] <mvirkkil> mdke: you need to drop the attached file in the MoinMoin/formatter directory. Then the output can be accessed by
[04:40] <mvirkkil> adding "?action=format&mimetype=xml/docbook" to the url.
[04:41] <mdke> mvirkkil, but if i understood correctly, that only works with the latest version of moin, it may be that the Ubuntu wiki will not use that version?
[04:41] <mvirkkil> But you do need the newest version of moin. Basically it couldn't be easier to 'convert' them to docbook, since it's done automagically by appending that to the url :)
[04:41] <mdke> yeah that's really cool
[04:41] <mdke> well i hope it will work in the Ubuntu wiki
[04:42] <mdke> we could try it on the test wiki maybe
[04:43] <mdke> or am I missing something?
[04:43] <mvirkkil> mdke: Well, basically you could temporarily copy all the data to a test server where you have the newest moin and do it there.
[04:44] <mdke> yes
[04:44] <mdke> it would be really cool to enable it in the ubuntu wiki tho
[04:44] <mdke> maybe that's a long term goal
[04:44] <mvirkkil> but I _know_ it will work poorly if the moin version is old, and backporting all the fixes would probably be a humongous pain...
[04:45] <mdke> probably
[04:45] <mdke> i mean the long term goal would be to get it in moin upstream, and upgrade the ubuntu wiki
[04:45] <SquishyWaffle> shoot, the new Wiki is going to be outdated at the time of being brought in?
[04:46] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, it will be using a stable version of the wiki software
[04:46] <mdke> it's 1.3
[04:46] <SquishyWaffle> The stable version is the one mvirkkil found the bugs in?
[04:46] <mvirkkil> SquishyWaffle: Well, the new wiki is based on the 1.3 branch (I was told), so it shouldn't be much of a problem upgrading later.
[04:46] <SquishyWaffle> that's encouraging :/
[04:47] <mvirkkil> SquishyWaffle: There are loads more. Custom formatters aren't used, so people output html directly instead of using the right channels.
[04:47] <mvirkkil> And the macro architecture isn't that good, since it enables invalid markup.
[04:48] <SquishyWaffle> Is MoinMoin relatively new or has it seen these issues much through its life-span?
[04:48] <mvirkkil> Though the xml I produce will always be valid xml though. Not guaranteed to be valid docbook, unfortunately.
[04:49] <mdke> well any time saving is good
[04:49] <mvirkkil> SquishyWaffle: They have a nice spearation between parsers and formaters and stuff. It's much, much better than mediawiki in that regard.  
[04:50] <mvirkkil> Unfortunately the way the formatter is interfaced isn't the best possible imho.
[04:51] <mvirkkil> And the way macros call the formatter directly instead of going therough the parser makes the problem more visible.
[04:51] <SquishyWaffle> fun stuff
[04:51] <mvirkkil> The parser does a lot of sanity checking and makes sure that tags get closed when tehy should etc. Macros bypass that.
[04:51] <mdke> i'm installing moin to have a play around
[04:52] <mvirkkil> But it isn't really all that bad, and I was able to code that docbook formatter in 2 day I think :)
[04:52] <SquishyWaffle> good deal
[04:52] <mvirkkil> mdke: From tla?
[04:53] <mdke> hmm
[04:53] <mdke> tla?
[04:53] <mvirkkil> mdke: It's like svn or cvs. tla is also known as bazaar.
[04:54] <mvirkkil> sort of
[04:54] <mdke> oh
[04:54] <mvirkkil> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinDev/TlaGuide
[04:54] <mdke> no i've just installed 1.3.3
[04:54] <mdke> which was the unstable one with gentoo
[04:54] <mdke> is that not recent enough?
[04:55] <mvirkkil> mdke: It probably somewhat works with that. But as I mentioned, the moin guys fixed several bugs for me while I coded the docbook converter.
[04:55] <mdke> hmm
[04:55] <mdke> ok i'll just use this to play around
[04:55] <mdke> because then i can remove it easier
[04:55] <mvirkkil> Yeah, I had some pain in setting things up.
[04:56] <mdke> its hard?
[04:56] <SquishyWaffle> whoa, I think I just found a bug in Thunderbird
[04:56] <mvirkkil> mdke: No, just new. 
[04:56] <mvirkkil> mdke: Hadn'
[04:57] <mvirkkil> mdke: And I did a custom setup, since I installed it as a user in to my own account, not to /var/www
[04:58] <mdke> hmm
[04:58] <mdke> god knows where mine is installed
[05:00] <mvirkkil> mdke: /usr/share/doc/moin might help :)
[05:00] <mdke> pah docs
[05:00] <mvirkkil> mdke: Nice attitude :)
[05:01] <Seveas> ...for #ubuntu-doc :)
[05:12] <SquishyWaffle> To fix something like this https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3353 I need to reply with a patch to that particular manpage, right?
[05:33] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, guess so
[05:33] <mdke> mvirkkil, looks like I'm going to have to read the docs afterall
[07:00] <mdke> SquishyWaffle, now's your chance!"
[07:00] <mdke> hi jeffsch 
[07:00] <jeffsch> hello
[07:01] <mdke> jeffsch, SquishyWaffle was wondering about whether/how his tags document could be integrated with the StyleGuide
[07:01] <jeffsch> yes, I just finished with reading the scrollback
[07:02] <jeffsch> he should add it anywhere he thinks is appropriate
[07:02] <jeffsch> the outline I have put is not set in stone
[07:03] <jeffsch> the styleguide oranization will probably get chaotic for a while, which is good
[07:05] <jeffsch> SquishyWaffle: the "failed to load external entity /home/gtaylor/.gnome2/yelp-bookmarks.xbel error is no big deal
[07:05] <jeffsch> SquishyWaffle: i get that error all the time
[07:05] <jeffsch> SquishyWaffle: if yelp is not working for you, then it is some other problem
[07:06] <mdke> i have to dash off
[07:06] <mdke> sorry
[07:06] <mdke> catch you later i hope
[07:06] <jeffsch> np
[07:09] <SquishyWaffle> jeffsch: I was just looking at the KDE style guide and perhaps it may be better to link there as it's much more complete than my little cheat sheet. You already have it down near the end of the book
[07:09] <SquishyWaffle> I had to guess a lot of the tags from an example or two I found in the kde guides so mine not be entirely correct either.
[07:09] <SquishyWaffle> mine might not be entirely correct :)
[07:10] <jeffsch> don't worry about that. if it's there, we can work on it. if it's not there...
[07:11] <jeffsch> we can start with what you did, then integrate the best of gnome and the best of kde
[07:11] <jeffsch> and tailor it for our specific needs 
[07:15] <SquishyWaffle> ok, I'll create a new section called: 'Syntax and Symbols'
[07:16] <jeffsch> ok. the styleguide is still in early stages, and it's normal for it to be unstable right now
[07:16] <jeffsch> it doesn't need to be stable until July 31 or thereabouts
[07:17] <jeffsch> SquishyWaffle: thanks for your help! Is there more to come?
[07:17] <SquishyWaffle> More to come being more tags?
[07:18] <jeffsch> hehe. that, and more in general. I don't want to be the only one doing styleguide
[07:19] <SquishyWaffle> I'd be glad to help but I need direction in some areas
[07:19] <jeffsch> the more people the better. That way it will be a better document (I hope)
[07:19] <SquishyWaffle> I'm not a huge grammer person, more of a aesthetics and flow person
[07:20] <jeffsch> that's good. the guide needs that stuff too.
[08:35] <jjesse> i love those little baggies
[08:35] <jjesse> i call them emergency pillows :)
[08:37] <SquishyWaffle> I'm waiting for one of my labmates to return so I can scare the mess out of her when I pop it
[08:43] <jjesse> grin thats funny
[09:51] <SquishyWaffle> hrm, I see the WIki doc on taking screenshots but not re-sizing them