[12:00] <elmo> yeah, that's the first thing I'd do if I hax0red ubuntu
[12:01] <mako> go for the userlinux metapackages
[12:01] <elmo> break the buildds in ways designed to send the archive maintainers mad
[12:01] <ogra> heh
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[12:01] <elmo> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field  in input data in package's section of control info file
[12:01] <mako> mdz: in terms of the trademark stuff, i did show them these packages
[12:01] <elmo> lots of that in the log
[12:03] <mdz> is there a copy of the upload still on the buildd?
[12:03] <mako> elmo: hmm.. i didn't get that on my end
[12:05] <mako> if it got rejected, does that put us in a better position to just scrap it and do the new version?
[12:05] <mako> although, ideally, not one that generates polymorphic packages
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[12:11] <elmo> wtf
[12:12] <elmo> it's the right size on the buildd
=== elmo goes insane
[12:13] <Mithrandir> somebody collected the network traffic tax by eating a few bytes off the file?
[12:13] <elmo> Mithrandir: it got BIGGER
[12:13] <lsuactiafner> elmo : it evolved
[12:13] <Mithrandir> elmo: hm, perhaps it ate something?
[12:13] <lsuactiafner> soon it will turn into AI
[12:15] <mako> elmo: wait.. it got bigger, then got smaller again?
[12:15] <lsuactiafner> its pulsating..
[12:15] <ogra> it pumps
[12:16] <lsuactiafner> rofl
[12:16] <elmo> mako: no, as the .deb 3218 on the buildd host and 3230 on ftp-master
[12:16] <elmo> in the changes, it's 3218 both on the buildd host and on ftp-master
[12:16] <mako> elmo: so it fucked up in the xfer
[12:16] <mako> and the changes file didn;'t
[12:17] <mako> i understand that this is not supposed to happen
[12:17] <elmo> dude, it's still a valid deb
[12:17] <elmo> it "fucked up" in a way that add 12 bytes but didn't validate the deb structure
[12:17] <lsuactiafner>  483B/s 9h21m11s
[12:17] <mako> is there a binary diff you can do?
[12:18] <lsuactiafner> yay 
[12:18] <Mithrandir> elmo: appended some random garbage, perhaps.
[12:18] <elmo> Mithrandir: no
[12:18] <mako> expanded the description :)
[12:18] <mako> (it was garbage to begin with)
[12:18] <mako> (bruce wrote it)
[12:18] <elmo> -rw-r--r--  1 katie katie 1239 Jun  9 23:18 control.tar.gz
[12:18] <elmo> -rw-r--r--  1 katie katie 1797 Jun  9 23:18 data.tar.gz
[12:18] <Mithrandir> elmo: no?  Then there's something _really_ crackful going on. :-)  You're sure you transferred the correct deb and not a random other one?
[12:18] <elmo> -rw-r--r--  1 katie katie 1238 Jun  9 23:17 control.tar.gz
[12:18] <elmo> -rw-r--r--  1 katie katie 1788 Jun  9 23:17 data.tar.gz
[12:18] <elmo> first bad, second good
[12:19] <elmo> Mithrandir: dude, there's nothing human involved, this is a buildd upload
[12:19] <elmo> hum, unless two buildds built and uploaded it simultaneously
[12:19] <elmo> nope
[12:19] <Mithrandir> the time stamps are different too.
[12:20] <elmo> -Installed-Size: 32
[12:20] <elmo> +Installed-Size: 8
[12:20] <elmo> -9bb926ca7e0982a70876137021ec65c3  usr/share/doc/meta-ul-desktop-base/copyright
[12:20] <elmo>  e606acc617f0fae635914b9223296e84  usr/share/doc/meta-ul-desktop-base/changelog.Debian.gz
[12:20] <elmo> +9bb926ca7e0982a70876137021ec65c3  usr/share/doc/meta-ul-desktop-base/copyright
[12:20] <elmo> this is SERIOUSLY FRYING MY BRAIN
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[12:21] <Mithrandir> it's not fabio's buildd or something which built it too?  perhaps check the upload logs to see which host transferred the files?
[12:22] <elmo> oh, gar, I get it now
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=== elmo beats mako
[12:22] <elmo> this is all your fault
[12:22] <mako> sorry dude!
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[12:22] <mako> i'm sure it is!
[12:22] <elmo> ok, so here's what happened.
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> silly question, does ubuntu actually include manpages for libc anywhere?
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> they arent in glibc-doc
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: yes, manpages-dev
=== mako gets embarassed in advance
[12:22] <elmo> mako uploaded a source+binary upload a while ago, but it wasn't signed by a key katie knew
[12:23] <mako> ahhhhhhh
[12:23] <Diablo-D3> wow
[12:23] <elmo> so katie threw away the upload, but didn't trust the .changes and so couldn't know to remove the binary debs he'd uploaded
[12:23] <Diablo-D3> what an oddly named package
[12:23] <mako> ahhhhh
[12:23] <elmo> a buildd comes along and uploads a valid .changes for the binaries
[12:23] <elmo> the .changes gets copied in, the other files don't
[12:23] <Diablo-D3> thanks
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[12:23] <mako> same package, so same filename
[12:23] <elmo> katie rejects the combination of buildd .changes + mako's .debs
[12:25] <elmo> so, err anyway, after all that interesting distraction, what was the conclusion?
[12:25] <elmo> chuck out meta-userlinux and reupload as meta-ul or not?
[12:27] <Mithrandir> ah, makes sense then
[12:27] <mako> (sorry)
[12:27] <mako> elmo: so, what do you want to do now
[12:27] <mako> elmo: since it rejected the binaries, it's not actually in hoary-updates, right?
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[12:27] <elmo> the source is
[12:27] <elmo> but that's ok, it's no biggy to ditch it
[12:27] <mako> elmo: yeah, if it's a not a biggy, mdz would prefer it and i don't care much either way
[12:28] <mako> elmo: the second package is already NEW
[12:28] <elmo> okay, done
[12:28] <elmo> and processed
[12:28] <mako> and, not prone to the whole, yeah
[12:29] <mako> elmo: thanks
[12:29] <mako> jdub: HEY
[12:29] <mako> MORE TROUBLE THAN THESE PACKAGES WERE EVER WORTH
[12:29] <mako> but i'm gonna make up for it with this manifesto
[12:31] <mako> man.. causing unexplainable archive maintance script errors.. i feel like lamont
[12:32] <luis_> mako: oh, man
[12:32] <luis_> mako: I got an email from the author of the hacker manifesto
[12:32] <mako> luis_: mckenzie wark?
[12:32] <luis_> he apparently found my blog entry about it
[12:32] <luis_> mako: yeah
[12:32] <luis_> though apparently he goes by 'ken'
[12:32] <mako> hah
[12:32] <eruin> I've got an issue with users-manager. It's no biggy, really, other than that it doesn't seem to accept non- a-z content for users full names. Should I submit a bug on this?
[12:32] <lamont__> mako: all my archive maintenenc script error-induction has been explainable...
[12:33] <lamont__> "don't do that lamont"
[12:33] <eruin> ie, I'd really like to spell my name ivind instead of Oivind
=== luis_ is trying to figure out how to respond to him while tactfully shitting all over his 'command' of the language
[12:34] <mako> luis_: did i "recommend" that book to you?
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[12:36] <mdz> dh_gencontrol -i
[12:36] <mdz> couldn't open log `/var/log/dpkg.log': Permission denied
[12:36] <mdz> wtf is that about?
[12:36] <elmo> it's a bug, should have been fixed in -7 ?
[12:37] <elmo>    * Reduced inability to open a log file to a warning, suppressed for
[12:37] <elmo>      non-root operations.  Closes: #312383.
[12:37] <elmo> ^-- guessing from that
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[12:38] <mako> luis_: i can't imagine i would have.. i didn't like it at all
[12:38] <mako> luis_: if you haven't, read moglen's dotcommunist.. it's fucking *awesome* and made better by the fact that probablh 1/4-1/3 of the language is lifted, directly, from the communist manifesto
[12:42] <luis_> mako: no, no one recommended it to me
[12:42] <luis_> he emailed it to a friend of mine who does computer poetry
[12:42] <luis_> which popped it into my head
[12:42] <luis_> so I read it
[12:42] <luis_> i've read eben's, of course
[12:42] <luis_> what kind of an eben fanboy would I be if I hadn't?
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[12:42] <luis_> :)
[12:43] <luis_> mako: http://www.beardofbees.com/gnoetry.html <- warkus sent a digital copy to these guys; it turned into pretty good commie/hacker poetry
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[12:51] <LikesHisLunch> Hello, does anyone know why the openoffice-evolution package doesn't work in Hoary? (my experiences are reminiscent of this thread: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=31267&highlight=mail+merge)
[01:03] <doko> mdz: I currently cannot see, why libxerces-java is needed as a b-d for libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java at all, so it should be safe to drop this as a build dependency.
[01:04] <mdz> doko: sounds good to me
[01:04] <doko> libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java can be built by gcj-4.0, so we can drop kaffe there as well.
[01:05] <doko> the fixes that I did for junit and libant1.6-java are wrong. I have to understand why /usr/share/ant1.6 and /usr/share/ant have to be both directories and wasabi wanted to replace one of them with a symlink
[01:06] <doko> but that's a topic for tomorrow ... a bit too late now
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[01:07] <dholbach> good night everybody - sleep tight
[01:09] <mdz> doko: ok, I would very much like to move all of the java stuff for ant into main tomorrow if possible
[01:09] <mdz> there is a huge amount of desynchronization between the archive and the seeds right now because of it
[01:09] <doko> I know, looking forward for a buildable OOo as well ...
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=== lamont_r heads out
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[01:29] <mdke> evening corey
[01:29] <tseng> whiprush: im stealing your package (evolution-sharp)
[01:29] <tseng> whiprush: k?
[01:31] <whiprush> uhh, I don't have any packages
[01:31] <tseng>    * Upload for Jorge, upgraded to 0.6.
[01:31] <tseng> wrong jorge
[01:31] <whiprush> heh
[01:31] <whiprush> you must have me confused with a real developer. :p
[01:32] <tseng> well since its not yours, i cant just ruthlessly clobber it
[01:32] <whiprush> heh
[01:32] <whiprush> koke is the other jorge btw.
[01:32] <tseng> i see whos it is now
[01:32] <tseng> i was sure you were working on it at some point
[01:33] <whiprush> I recall trying and giving up
[01:34] <mdke> check out the logo similarities between ubuntu and msn http://www.salvatore-aranzulla.com/?p=132
[01:36] <HrdwrBoB> mdke: obviously it's a conspiracy
=== mdke nods
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[01:38] <tseng> anyone seen koke lately
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[01:48] <mdz> keeeeyybuuuuuuuk
[01:48] <whiprush> any networkmagic people awake?
[01:50] <Nafallo> mdz: I'm not sure he highlights that ;-)
[01:50] <mdz> he's not here anyway
[01:50] <mdz> he's broken dpkg again and then gone to sleep
[01:50] <Nafallo> wee! luck! :-)
[01:51] <Nafallo> whiprush: thom's not here either :-)
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[02:22] <Amaranth> jdub: that blog entry should have NSFW in the title :P
[02:24] <tseng> Amaranth: yeah, after you turn on line-by-line scrolling
[02:24] <tseng> that might help
[02:24] <Amaranth> clearlooks 0.6 is out :)
[02:30] <tseng> Amaranth: way to read gnoemfiles
[02:30] <Amaranth> tseng: actually the author told me last night
[02:30] <tseng> :)
[02:31] <Amaranth> i've been giving him input on the changes and such
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[02:38] <ficusplanet> jdub, I noticed that you guys are using serpentine for audio burning in breezy.  What would you think of integrating it with muine and rhythmbox (calling serpentine /tmp/burnplaylist.m3u or some such)?  It would be a really simple muine plugin. 
[02:41] <tseng> ficusplanet: snorp did a nautilus-burn plugin.
[02:41] <tseng> ficusplanet: you could talk to him?
[02:41] <ficusplanet> tseng, OK, thanks.
[02:41] <tseng> he is in #muine and all over the place
[02:42] <ficusplanet> tseng, cool
[02:47] <Riddell> mdz: all the packages from kde that are listed are fine to be demoted except kwalletmanager which I've added to seeds and kubuntu-desktop
[02:48] <mdz>  o kdat, kdeadmin, kdeadmin-doc-html, kpackage, ksysv, lilo-config, secpolicy{kdeadmin}
[02:48] <mdz>  o kdebase-doc-html, xfonts-konsole                                  {kdebase}
[02:48] <mdz>  o kcoloredit, kdegraphics, kdegraphics-dev, kdegraphics-doc-html, kdvi, kfax, kgamma, kghostview, kiconedit, kmrml, kolourpaint, kpovmodeler, kruler, kuickshow, kview, kviewshell, libkscan-dev{kdegraphics}
[02:48] <mdz>  o akode-mpeg, kaboodle, kdemultimedia, kdemultimedia-doc-html, libarts1-audiofile, libarts1-xine{kdemultimedia}
[02:48] <mdz>  o dcoprss, kdenetwork, kdenetwork-doc-html, kdict, kget, knewsticker, ksirc, ktalkd, librss1, librss1-dev, lisa{kdenetwork}
[02:48] <mdz>  o kandy, kdepim, kdepim-doc, kdepim-doc-html, kdepim-kfile-plugins, kitchensync, kleopatra, kmailcvt, knode, kode, konsolekalendar, korn, ktnef, libkgantt0, libkgantt0-dev, libkleopatra0-dev, libkpimexchange1-dev, libksieve0-dev, libmimelib1-dev, networkstatus{kdepim}
[02:49] <mdz>  o kcharselect, kdelirc, kdessh, kdeutils, kdeutils-dev, kdeutils-doc-html, kdf, kedit, kfloppy, kgpg, khexedit, kjots, kregexpeditor, ksim, ktimer{kdeutils}
[02:49] <mdz> all of that?
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[02:49] <Riddell> mdz: yep
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[02:52] <mdz> done
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[02:54] <Riddell> thanks
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[02:58] <lamont> elmo still around, or did he get sensible and go to sleep?
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[03:02] <helix> jdub: from now on, PLEASE WARN US WHEN SOMETHING IN YOUR BLOG IS NOT SAFE FOR WORK!
[03:03] <tseng> ROFLCOPTER!!!ONE
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[03:11] <jdub> tseng: ha ha
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=== Nafallo night alla
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[03:25] <whiprush> jdub: got time for some fridge talk?
[03:25] <jsgotangco> hello whiprush 
[03:26] <whiprush> hey jsgotangco 
[03:27] <jdub> whiprush: sho'!
[03:27] <jdub> whiprush: meanwhile, i am going to finish that email TODAY!!
[03:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:27] <jdub> TODAY!
[03:28] <whiprush> heh
[03:28] <jdub> i am even going to tie myself to the chair
[03:28] <whiprush> anyword on some prototype site?
[03:28] <jdub> in such a way that will deny me the ability to untie it myself
[03:28] <jdub> yeah, site is still there
[03:28] <whiprush> well, I mean one not hosted at some dude's house, heh.
[03:29] <jdub> no, we have stuff to sort out before going more live
[03:29] <whiprush> k
[03:29] <mdz> jdub: that blog entry of yours certainly has made the rounds
[03:29] <jdub> but you're welcome to abuse it as much as you (singular) want
[03:29] <whiprush> also, I updated the spec a bit if you want to check it out.
[03:29] <jdub> mdz: neat :)
[03:30] <jdub> cringely doesn't have an rss feed
[03:30] <jdub> that's so bad
[03:30] <mdz> that's a feature
[03:34] <jdub> whiprush: cool
[03:34] <jdub> (just read the diff0
[03:34] <whiprush> rock
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[03:58] <ogra> mdz, sane code would use commandline options to override user config, xscreensaver doesnt....
[03:58] <bob2> hehe
[03:59] <ogra> mdz, could we let ltsp depend on xlockmore ? xlock -dpmsstandby 0 -mode blank  will do the trick
[03:59] <ogra> (xlockmore is in universe)
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[04:05] <jnc> wtf...
=== jnc pokes ubuntu breezy
[04:06] <jsgotangco> nice intro
[04:06] <jnc> when Evolution is open, no applications will launch
[04:06] <jnc> i close Evo, other stuff launches fine
[04:06] <jnc> i have like 300mb ram + free
[04:06] <jnc> what else could it be?
[04:08] <jnc> jsgotangco: gnome-terminal cannot possibly require 301mb ram to launch
[04:08] <jnc> could it?
[04:08] <jnc> maybe i'm out of ptys
[04:08] <jnc> or something
[04:08] <AndyFitz> was there a hoary kernel update yesterday ?.  if so it was satan
[04:08] <jnc> AndyFitz: haha.  what's it do to you
[04:09] <AndyFitz> jnc,  it raped me man.
[04:09] <jnc> thems molestin' words
[04:09] <AndyFitz> i guess thats the wrong word..  yeah i was about to correct myself and say molestered 
[04:09] <jnc> no love for the kernel update?
=== jnc prods breezy some more
[04:10] <AndyFitz> kernel panic - note syncing : vfs : unable to mound root fs on unknown - block(0,0)
[04:10] <jnc> ew
[04:10] <jnc> sometimes you feel like a nut?
[04:10] <jnc> and... sometimes you dont
=== jnc giggles heiniously
[04:11] <AndyFitz> and i dont have any backup kernels.  so as we speak im copying my photos and working directories to my ipod
[04:11] <AndyFitz> lol   fammine before the feast  pain before the pleasure..  these are the ways of the linux kernel
[04:12] <jnc> AndyFitz: how about "eat as much herring you can before the pundits beat you with large clubs"
[04:12] <AndyFitz> yeah ,  seemingly more appropirate
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[04:14] <jnc> i just meowed at a cat
[04:14] <jnc> i'm reaching new levels of dumb
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[04:20] <AndyFitz> jnc, no  you're safe.  yesterday i got on the wrong train and only realised after 6 stops in the wrong direction.  and then i caught the wrong one back missing the transferring train again
[04:21] <AndyFitz> my date forgave me
[04:21] <jnc> did you ..
[04:21] <jnc> that explains it
[04:21] <jnc> IT WAS THE TRAIN
[04:21] <jnc> OF LOVE
[04:21] <jnc> LIKE WOAH
=== jnc stumbles back into obscurity
[04:22] <AndyFitz> oh and i didnt have my phone on my  so i  open my laptop to get her number from evolution to ring from the station.   but my kernel panics
[04:22] <AndyFitz> it all comes full circle back to the kernels fault
[04:22] <AndyFitz> even love
[04:22] <AndyFitz> ... kernels fault
[04:24] <jsgotangco> this transcript is crack dudes
[04:24] <jsgotangco> heh
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[04:37] <infinity> AndyFitz : Why not boot with an install CD in rescue mode and fix the kernel issue? :)
[04:38] <AndyFitz> infinity.  fix the kernel issue by copying vmlinuz  over the existing one ?
[04:39] <infinity> AndyFitz : By installing a non-broken linux-image package and re-running update-grub?
[04:39] <AndyFitz> installing how ?  copying the vmlinuz file ?
[04:39] <infinity> (Though, what actually broke?... initrd?)
[04:40] <AndyFitz> sorry im a graphics pirate not a code ninja
[04:40] <infinity> AndyFitz : Downloading the .deb and using 'dpkg -i linux-image-foo.deb'
[04:40] <infinity> NINJA!
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[04:40] <infinity> *cough*
[04:40] <AndyFitz> aayeee
[04:40] <AndyFitz> sounds like good advice my friend .   i'll give it a shot
[04:41] <infinity> AndyFitz : Or, y'know, bring that tank of a laptop to Melbourne for the Queen's Birthday long weekend, and get some personal service.
[04:41] <AndyFitz> hey yeah  long weekend is upon us..  doesnt AU rock like that
[04:41] <infinity> I'm so glad I moved somewhere with such silly holidays.
[04:41] <AndyFitz> heh  like anyone knew the reason for this holiday.. really
[04:43] <AndyFitz> i'll be going to melbourne with said chickie in a month actually
[04:43] <AndyFitz> will have too say g'day
[04:43] <AndyFitz> and introduce you to those crazy drum and bass  kiwis who use debian
[04:44] <whiprush> heya infinity ... I remember you telling me that you were an ldap guy at UDU. I have a friend that is working on deploying Fedora's new directory thing and wants to do something with it for Ubuntu. Shall I shuffle him your way?
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[04:48] <infinity> whiprush : Was I drunk at the time?
[04:48] <infinity> whiprush : (Sure, send him my way)
[04:48] <whiprush> heh, k.
[04:49] <jdub> rawk
[04:49] <whiprush> he's a real good ldap dude, just doesn't know where to start.
[04:49] <whiprush> he's got this big list of stuff that he does to an ubuntu machine to make it "work right" for ldap and things like windows interop.
[04:49] <whiprush> it's pretty metal.
[04:55] <infinity> Cool.
[04:57] <wasabi_> Heh. I'm one of those LDAP guys. =/
[04:57] <wasabi_> I missed the first part of that conversation. =(
[04:57] <whiprush> I'll send him your way too then
[04:57] <wasabi_> not without me knowing what's going on! 
[04:58] <wasabi_> I was going to take a look at that fedora ldap server after I got eclipse fixed up.
[04:58] <wasabi_> Anybody else working with that?
[04:58] <whiprush> my friend is
[04:58] <Amaranth> hah
[04:58] <whiprush> he's got it built on ubuntu 
[04:58] <Amaranth> it was funny watching that
[04:58] <wasabi_> Oh rock.
[04:58] <whiprush> apparently the build process is pretty crap
[04:58] <wasabi_> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DomainAuthenticationUtility
[04:58] <whiprush> took him the better part of a morning to build it
[04:58] <wasabi_> That's a ranty page I put together to presearve an idea.
[05:01] <whiprush> man, I so feel your pain.
[05:06] <wasabi_> the fedora server might actually be suitable for becoming a replica in active directory
[05:06] <wasabi_> i haven't looked at it that closey, but it has most of the requisites.
[05:06] <wasabi_> i bet the ACLs are totally different though
[05:07] <whiprush> I've heard nothing but good things except for the build process.
[05:07] <wasabi_> Yeah, it certainly beats out openldap.
=== jdub is so psyched about it, but for one thing - it's not like i'll actually be using it.
[05:07] <whiprush> it'd be a nice breezy+1 or +2 goal to have a plop in replacement for an AD Domain controller.
[05:07] <wasabi_> I don't think there is much to be psyched about.
[05:08] <wasabi_> whiprush, that's not going to be possible fora  long time.
[05:08] <wasabi_> And this doesn't bring us closer to it
=== whiprush nods
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[05:08] <whiprush> I'll take anything over nothing though.
[05:08] <wasabi_> I think the only feature of the fedora one I'm excited about is hte ACLs
[05:08] <wasabi_> openldap has everything else.
[05:09] <whiprush> yeah, but openldap makes me want to cut myself.
[05:09] <wasabi_> Why?
[05:09] <wasabi_> openldap, especially as distributed by debian, is super easy to set up.
[05:09] <whiprush> I just can't get anything ootb that isn't obtuse.
[05:09] <wasabi_> Creates the DB and root for your automatically.
[05:09] <Amaranth> can't samba work as as an AD domain controller?
[05:09] <wasabi_> Amaranth, no.
[05:09] <wasabi_> It can work as a NT4 PDC or BDC.
[05:09] <Amaranth> hrm
[05:09] <wasabi_> And can join AD as a member.
[05:09] <Amaranth> i don't know what these terms mean :P
[05:09] <Amaranth> i know active directory
[05:10] <wasabi_> FOSS is missing a TON of requisites for AD.
[05:10] <fabbione> morning
[05:10] <wasabi_> bind has no kerberos SIG(0) support.
[05:10] <whiprush> you can get halfway there with openldap and kerberos.
[05:10] <whiprush> even then it's a pain.
[05:10] <jsgotangco> IT IS
[05:10] <wasabi_> Yeah. You can't serve a windows box properly.
[05:10] <wasabi_> And serving a linux box is pretty non-par.
[05:10] <wasabi_> Serving a linux laptop is basically unrealstic.
[05:11] <jsgotangco> i share your pain
[05:11] <wasabi_> (no cred caching)
[05:11] <wasabi_> Oh, we also don't have a suitable file sharing protocol yet. NFSv4 might be it.
[05:11] <whiprush> and it depends on the distro also. We can't get a single suse machine to even use ldap for auth.
[05:11] <whiprush> argh.
[05:11] <wasabi_> Oh that's easy. ;)
[05:11] <wasabi_> I have all the pam and nss config files for you!
[05:11] <whiprush> I'm so emailing you.
[05:12] <wasabi_> In windows it's two button clicks and typing the name of the domain.
[05:12] <wasabi_> Same with OS X.
[05:12] <whiprush> can osx join an ad?
[05:12] <wasabi_> Yes.
[05:12] <wasabi_> Oh, that's anohter point.
[05:12] <whiprush> surely it can't serve one.
[05:12] <wasabi_> Our file system ACLs SUCK
[05:12] <wasabi_> SUCK BAD
[05:12] <wasabi_> Tiger actually added NT compatible ACLs to HFS
[05:12] <wasabi_> Which are pretty darn slick.
[05:13] <wasabi_> I think we should totally copy them.
[05:13] <wasabi_> It's just not something most die hard unixers will accept
[05:13] <whiprush> heh
[05:14] <whiprush> all I know, is I'm stuck on nis and nfs, and I know I'm not the only one.
[05:14] <wasabi_> I use AD at the office.
[05:14] <jsgotangco> same here
[05:14] <wasabi_> I'm a windows admin during the day time hours. ;)
[05:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:14] <jsgotangco> i like win2k3
[05:14] <wasabi_> Me too.
[05:14] <whiprush> yeah, it's pretty good.
[05:15] <wasabi_> Check out this:
[05:15] <wasabi_> http://www.padl.com/Products/XAD.html
[05:15] <wasabi_> They've done it.
[05:15] <whiprush> you've tries this?
[05:15] <wasabi_> no
[05:15] <wasabi_> it's $$$
[05:15] <whiprush> oh
[05:15] <jsgotangco> i haven't been updated in windows server stuff for a while though
[05:16] <wasabi_> I think andrew bartlett point me to it.
=== jsgotangco has been pimping his ubuntu servers with management
[05:16] <whiprush> I wonder how it really works.
[05:16] <jsgotangco> Pty
[05:16] <jsgotangco> australian?
[05:16] <wasabi_> It's apparently Samba + Kerberos + openLDAp
[05:16] <wasabi_> all hacked up and made to work
[05:16] <whiprush> and they did all that integration work?
[05:16] <wasabi_> that's what they claim
[05:17] <jsgotangco> that neat if it really works nicely
[05:17] <whiprush> heh, I'll have to see it to believe it.
[05:17] <whiprush> although, I do know people who have done it, it just takes them so freaking long.
[05:17] <wasabi_> Well, they offer stuff nobody has done yet;
[05:17] <wasabi_> Like group policy supportl.
[05:18] <whiprush> just noticed that
[05:19] <whiprush> ms's new SUS++ thing is out now too.
[05:19] <wasabi_> WSUS
[05:19] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:19] <jsgotangco> im still using SUS
[05:19] <whiprush> jdub: you know, we should have an #ubuntu-sounder for conversation like this ...
[05:19] <jsgotangco> can SUS be upgraded?
[05:19] <wasabi_> sounder?
[05:19] <wasabi_> jsgotangco, don't think so.
[05:19] <wasabi_> There's no reason to want to upgrade thoughl
[05:19] <jsgotangco> argghh
[05:20] <wasabi_> It's not like it reinstalls all your patches.
[05:20] <whiprush> sounder is the chat/offtopic/justhangout list for ubuntu
[05:23] <bob2> (ObHistoricalFact: it was originally the list for Warty beta-testers, before it became public; hence the name.)
[05:31] <jdub> xandros also have client integration stuff done
[05:32] <jdub> pretty wide ranging, too
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[05:34] <jsgotangco> a sounder of warthogs
[05:34] <jsgotangco> a colony of hedgehogs
[05:34] <jsgotangco> a cete of badgers
[05:37] <jdub> we had 'array' for hedgehogs
[05:42] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[05:42] <jsgotangco> 'array' is correct
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[05:56] <hornbeck> anyone around?
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[05:58] <Stargazer> evening... Question, how does one get rid of graphic corruption using 5.04 PPC on a G3?
[06:00] <bob2> #ubuntu
[06:00] <Stargazer> sorry..
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[06:33] <fabbione> dilinger: ping?
[06:34] <dilinger> pong
[06:35] <fabbione> dilinger: mind if i change lvm2 b-d to drop libreadline4 ?
[06:35] <fabbione> and bump libdlm-dev versioned b-d?
[06:36] <dilinger> drop libreadline4 completely?  lvm2 is much nicer to use with it..
[06:36] <dilinger> anyways, waldi's the person to talk to nowdays, i haven't done much w/ lvm2 lately
[06:39] <fabbione> i mean replacing it with libreadline5 :)
[06:39] <dilinger> ah
[06:40] <dilinger> yea, i don't see a problem w/ it
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[07:33] <mdz> Keybuk: did anything change in dpkg recently which would explain this: dpkg: can't mmap package info file `/var/lib/dpkg/available': Invalid argument
[07:33] <Keybuk> sounds like your available file is too large
[07:34] <mdz> it's 0 bytes
[07:34] <Keybuk> oh, heh
[07:34] <mdz> copying a normal available file into place there gets it working
[07:34] <Keybuk> you can't mmap() 0 bytes, can you? :)
[07:34] <mdz> apparently not
[07:34] <bob2> can that file just die yet?
[07:34] <mdz> this sort of breaks debootstrap
[07:35] <mdz> and by "sort of" I mean "utterly"
[07:35] <Keybuk> deboostrap pre-seeds available and status, does it not?
[07:35] <mdz> it just touches them
[07:36] <Keybuk> is it consistently reproducible?
[07:36] <mdz> oh yes
[07:36] <mdz> try a debootstrap
[07:36] <Keybuk> it would be nice to run gdb over it to see what arguments mmap is getting
[07:36] <mdz> 10971 mmap2(NULL, 0, PROT_READ, MAP_SHARED, 5, 0) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
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[07:38] <Keybuk> hmm
[07:38] <Keybuk> nope, you can mmap 0 bytes, it just returns NULL
[07:39] <Keybuk> unless someone's broken mmap in a recent kernel?
[07:39] <mdz> 2.6.12-1-k7
[07:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: if mmap kernel behaviour is changed.. is a dpkg bug
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: did you upgrade the kernel yesterday?
[07:40] <Keybuk> mdz: http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/test.c
[07:40] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[07:40] <Keybuk> compile that, and run it with a 0-byte test file alongside
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: ok. that's 12rc6...
[07:40] <mdz> Keybuk: I'd already got it written :-P
[07:40] <mdz> mmap says: Invalid argument
[07:40] <Keybuk> fabbione: is there a known change to mmap behaviour?
[07:41] <mdz> Keybuk: what kernel are you on, assuming it works for you?
[07:41] <daniels> mmap says: Success
[07:41] <daniels> this is 2.6.10-5-686
[07:41] <Keybuk> mdz: 2.6.10-5-k7 (hoary)
[07:41] <fabbione> Keybuk: they did a bunch of security fixes to mmap..
[07:41] <fabbione> so possibly yes
=== Keybuk reaches for the heavy book that bends the shelf
[07:43] <mdz> mmap(2) only describes EINVAL for length too large or not aligned
[07:43] <mdz> 0 bytes should have every possible alignment :-)
[07:43] <Keybuk> there's no restricted-modules for 2.6.12 ?
[07:43] <mdz> nope
[07:43] <Keybuk> bah, I can't test it then
[07:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: why?
[07:44] <daniels> fabbione: ath, I'm guessing
[07:44] <Keybuk> because the machine with breezy on it needs lrm for the network card
[07:44] <mdz> because he's a proprietary driver sellout
[07:44] <fabbione> Keybuk is 0wn3d by b1n4ry dr1v3r5
[07:44] <daniels> the openbsd guys reverse-engineered the ath hal
[07:44] <daniels> it would be great if we could get that into our mainline kernel
[07:44] <daniels> that way I could do away with my need for lrm also
[07:44] <Keybuk> binary on chip, binary on disk, what is difference?
[07:44] <daniels> mdz: i'm glad your machine is completely clear of any proprietary firmware also :P
[07:45] <mdz>         if (!len)
[07:45] <mdz>                 return -EINVAL;
[07:45] <mdz> ^^ Linux 2.6.12
[07:45] <Keybuk> mdz: cute
[07:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: fix dpkg _)
[07:46] <Keybuk> fabbione: I'm very carefully reading POSIX atm
[07:47] <Keybuk> actually, POSIX seems pretty clear, len=0 shall be EINVAL
[07:47] <crimsun> it says as much in the rc6 changelog, too
=== fabbione point Keybuk to: <fabbione> Keybuk: fix dpkg _)
[07:47] <mdz>         if (!len)
[07:47] <mdz>                 return addr;
[07:47] <mdz>         /* Careful about overflows.. */
[07:47] <mdz>         len = PAGE_ALIGN(len);
[07:47] <mdz>         if (!len || len > TASK_SIZE)
[07:48] <mdz>                 return -EINVAL;
[07:48] <mdz> ^^ linux 2.6.10
[07:48] <Keybuk> fabbione: is a tricky fix, annoyingly
[07:48] <fabbione> Keybuk: i can guess so
[07:48] <jdub> Keybuk: fix POSIX
=== Lathiat grins at jdub
[07:49] <mdz> that's decidedly trickier
[07:49] <jdub> let's see who's tricky now!
[07:49] <Keybuk> mdz: so, I was thinking, why doesn't apt unpack packages as it downloads them?
[07:50] <mdz> Keybuk: because that would require working out which groups of packages we would have to download at a time
[07:50] <Keybuk> but don't you already do an ordering calculation for dpkg passing?
[07:50] <mdz> later
=== daniels hums at xorg's 1212-character Build-Depends line.
[07:50] <daniels> wonder if that'll break sbuild or something in creative ways.
[07:50] <mdz> and it pretty much cheats with dpkg anyway
[07:51] <mdz> by unpacking as much as it can at once, modulo essential/pre-depends/conflicts
[07:51] <daniels> actually, make that 1240 (FEAR THE CVS LIBX11)
[07:51] <Lathiat> daniels: so does X work yet? :)
[07:51] <daniels> Lathiat: yeah
[07:51] <mdz> it is way more work than I am willing to do for the benefit of people who cannot manage their disk space
[07:51] <Lathiat> in the archives?
[07:51] <daniels> Lathiat: nope
[07:52] <Lathiat> daniels: :)
[07:52] <Keybuk> ...interesting
[07:52] <Keybuk> FreeBSD seems to support len=0 too
[07:52] <Keybuk> 	if ((ssize_t) uap->len < 0 ||
[07:52] <Keybuk> 	    ((flags & MAP_ANON) && uap->fd != -1))
[07:52] <Keybuk> 		return (EINVAL);
[07:53] <mdz> pay no attention to them; they use parentheses around return values
=== Lathiat laughs
[07:53] <Lathiat> my lecturer does that
[07:53] <Lathiat> its annoying
[07:53] <mdz> was the fix explicitly trying to avoid a security issue?
[07:53] <mdz> or were they just POSIXifying it while they were in there?
[07:54] <Keybuk> I have an image of a kernel developer going "aha!  we can break a shit-load of software quietly, muahahahaha!"
[07:54] <mdz> somebody snuck the patch in by trying to disguise it as an ia64-specific issue
[07:54] <mdz> everyone ignored it because it said [IA64]  in front
[07:55] <Keybuk> ok, fucking Solaris supports len=0
[07:55] <Lathiat> like how mm snuck mppe in? :)
[07:55] <Lathiat> err
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[07:56] <Burgundavia> jdub, ping
[07:56] <Keybuk> fabbione: did you apply this same patch to hoary?
[07:57] <jdub> Burgundavia: pong
[07:57] <Burgundavia> jdub, I had a crazy thought about file managers, who would I chat with about it?
[07:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: checking
[07:59] <jdub> Burgundavia: chat to your blog, send me the link. :)
[07:59] <Burgundavia> jdub, I wish I had a blog
[07:59] <Keybuk> fabbione: this will break glibc too
[07:59] <jdub> Burgundavia: easy to set up :)
[07:59] <jdub> Burgundavia: and you're a member, so you'd get to be on planet ubuntu
[07:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am still checking
[08:01] <Burgundavia> jdub, got a suggestion, aside from livejournal?
[08:02] <Keybuk> in fact, this will break glibc in lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of places :-/
[08:02] <jdub> Burgundavia: blogger, advogato...
[08:02] <Keybuk> they pretty much just pass st.st_size for length unilaterally
[08:03] <Keybuk> do we know whether the kernel developers really have done this for a reason, other than just while they were in there?
[08:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: no
[08:03] <fabbione>         if (!len)
[08:03] <fabbione> -               return addr;
[08:03] <fabbione> +               return -EINVAL;
[08:04] <fabbione> it's probably not a security fix
[08:04] <fabbione> but if it is, it hasn't been announced yet
[08:04] <fabbione> i will keep an eye
=== infinity curses the jadetex maintainers for outsmarting him.
[08:09] <infinity> Or outstupiding, as the case may be.
[08:11] <Keybuk> mdz: doesn't dpkg error if available is empty anyway?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> jdub, http://www.advogato.org/recentlog.html
[08:12] <Keybuk> oh, no, is ok
[08:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: you can also link here -> http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/
[08:13] <jdub> :)
[08:13] <Burgundavia> jdub, yes, I saw that, after I pasted the link
[08:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: also, google for 'thunar' and have a look at the mockups
[08:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: you are a member, right?
[08:14] <Burgundavia> jdub, i have looked at thunar
[08:14] <Burgundavia> but I couldn't remember if it did all those things
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: the ia64 patch is really ia64 specific :)
[08:16] <fabbione> and the change seems to be older than 12rc3
[08:16] <Burgundavia> jdub, ok, that is exactly what I was looking for
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[08:19] <fabbione> mdz, Keybuck: the change was introduced the 28/03/2005 and SignedOff by Andrew Morton and Linus. 
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[08:22] <Burgundavia> jdub, and yes I am a member
[08:23] <fabbione> http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/patch@1.2181.46.141
[08:23] <fabbione> here it is
[08:24] <jdub> Burgundavia: wanaa be on planet ubuntu?
[08:24] <jsgotangco> wow
[08:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, sure
[08:25] <fabbione> jdub: i did ask you to be on planet.u.c eons ago...
[08:25] <fabbione> jdub: am i there or not?
[08:26] <jdub> fabbione: yep
[08:26] <fabbione> ok
[08:26] <Keybuk> fabbione: sweet
[08:26] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:26] <jsgotangco> face hacking
[08:26] <jsgotangco> neat
[08:26] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am pretty sure it's not easy to convince upstream that the fix is correct, but needs to be reverted :)
[08:27] <fabbione> i can temporary revert or special case it
[08:27] <fabbione> but userland needs fixing
[08:27] <Keybuk> userland will have to catch up anyway
=== fabbione needs more coffee
[08:28] <Burgundavia> ok, someone needs to check that nats head is screwed on right
[08:29] <Keybuk> fabbione: you realise, this makes the quickest set of dpkg releases in history, right? :p
[08:30] <jdub> Keybuk: release name "in like flynn"
[08:31] <Keybuk> what's what one mean? :p
[08:31] <jdub> elmo: planet ubuntu update please :-)
[08:33] <daniels> Kamion: um
[08:33] <daniels> Kamion: so, like, locale handling in xlib
[08:33] <daniels> Kamion: no-one uses that, right?
[08:34] <daniels> In Like Flynn
[08:34] <daniels> Dates back to 1945, refering to how easily movie star Errol Flynn could get women into bed with him.
[08:35] <jdub> s/women/people/
[08:36] <Keybuk> descent dpkg-1.13% ./src/dpkg-query -l
[08:36] <Keybuk> ZERO BYTE PROTECTION MATRIX ACTIVE!
[08:36] <Keybuk> kewl
[08:37] <Burgundavia> jdub, cheers
[08:37] <Treenaks> Keybuk: ooh, you let ogra add some messages to dpkg, to make it more movieos-ish? :)
[08:37] <jdub> ha ha ha ha
[08:38] <Treenaks> jdub: I want everything to give me messages like that
[08:38] <Treenaks> jdub: especially when I'm using my full-screen xterms
[08:38] <bob2> we need a en_MOVIEOS locale
[08:38] <bob2> in rosetta
[08:38] <jdub> ACCESS DENIED
[08:39] <Keybuk> http://arch.netsplit.com/scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--devel--1.13--patch-157
[08:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's a pleasure to have this honour :)
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[08:48] <pitti> Morning
[08:48] <fabbione> hey pitti
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[08:56] <allee> #kde-devel
[08:58] <allee> wrong tab sorry
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[09:14] <daniels> Kamion: if I don't have something workable by :00, I'll just upload a couple of tiny fixes, no modular libX11
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[10:20] <daniels> Kamion: preparing a fixes-only -24 now
[10:20] <daniels> er, -23
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[10:24] <Lathiat> daniels: for X so it would mostly work?
[10:26] <daniels> yeah
[10:26] <daniels> just the mkfontdir fix
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[10:31] <Amaranth> didn't you say you were going to break it all again in -24 though? :)
[10:33] <AndyFitz> is doing a sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -you   to breezy from hoary is safe at this stage ?.   will it know what to disregard ?
[10:35] <Lathiat> AndyFitz: not quite yet i think :)
[10:35] <Lathiat> Amaranth: heh
[10:36] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: If you care about X, universe, or KDE you shouldn't. :D
[10:37] <AndyFitz> bugger,  I care about gnome, X, gaim and firefox
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[11:03] <pitti> Hey hey seb128!
[11:03] <seb128> hey pitti :)
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: you'll upload a new set of gnome packages soon? I think we should try to downsize http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/dload-strippedtar.txt soon to make the Rosetta guys happy
[11:04] <seb128> weird, there is some packages I've uploaded yesterday in this list
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: there might still be a bug
[11:05] <seb128> seems so
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: is the POT file created on your local build?
[11:05] <seb128> Warning: tarball ximian-connector_2.3.3-0ubuntu1_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:05] <seb128> Warning: tarball evolution_2.3.3-0ubuntu1_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:05] <seb128> good question
[11:05] <pitti> these are recent uploads?
[11:05] <seb128> yesterday
[11:06] <seb128> Warning: tarball gal2.4_2.5.3-0ubuntu1_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:06] <seb128> 2 days ago
[11:06] <seb128> Warning: tarball nautilus-cd-burner_2.11.3-0ubuntu1_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:06] <seb128> yesterday
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: do you have local builds?
[11:06] <seb128> yep
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: where you could do a find -name "*.pot"?
[11:07] <seb128> ximian-connector has no pot
[11:07] <pitti> ... but uses gnome.mk?
[11:07] <seb128> but running "/usr/bin/intltool-update -p --verbose;" works fine
[11:07] <seb128> yep, it uses gnome.mk
[11:07] <pitti> seb128: can you look into the build log or put it somewhere?
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: I'll fix some non-gnome packages in the next time
[11:08] <seb128> Wrote ../storage/ximian-connector.xml.h
[11:08] <seb128>  *** xgettext is not found on this system!
[11:08] <seb128>  *** Without it, intltool-update can not extract strings.
[11:08] <pitti> uh
[11:08] <seb128> hum
[11:09] <pitti> intltool depends on gettext...
[11:09] <seb128> I have xgettext on my box
[11:09] <seb128> and running "/usr/bin/intltool-update -p --verbose;" myself works
[11:09] <pitti> well, wait
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[11:09] <pitti> is there an intltool in the source package?
[11:09] <pitti> Hi thom
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: cdbs prefers intltool in the sources and only uses /usr/bin if it isn't present
[11:10] <seb128> oh k
[11:10] <seb128> that's bad
[11:10] <daniels> boooo cdbs
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: so running ./intltool-update in the source package fails?
[11:10] <seb128> the local intltool-update has
[11:10] <seb128>     my $XGETTEXT = $ENV{"XGETTEXT"} || "/opt/gnome2/bin//xgettext";
[11:10] <pitti> ARRRGH
[11:11] <seb128> a lot of packages have this bug IIRC
[11:11] <pitti> seb128: so XGETTEXT=/usr/bin/xgettext ./intltool-update works?
[11:11] <seb128> now that you speak about it, a guy bugged me about that some time ago
[11:11] <danielki> eeeep
[11:11] <pitti> seb128: I can add the env variable to gnome.mk
[11:11] <seb128> correct
[11:11] <seb128> that fixes it
=== pitti fixes
[11:11] <daniels> OH FRIGGING HELL IMAKE
[11:11] <daniels> build systems are crap.
[11:12] <pitti> daniels: it's like mutt, they all suck, some suck less...
[11:12] <daniels> xorg should build by osmosis or something.
[11:12] <daniels> autotools is showering me in hate and derision in one tab, and imake is kicking me in the goods and taunting me in another
[11:12] <seb128> pitti: this bug should be fixed though
[11:12] <seb128>     my $MSGFMT = $ENV{"MSGFMT"} || "/opt/gnome2/bin//msgfmt";
[11:12] <Lathiat> daniels: heh
[11:13] <seb128>     my $MSGMERGE = $ENV{"MSGMERGE"} || "/opt/gnome2/bin//msgmerge";
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: OMG
[11:13] <Lathiat> hm, archive.ubuntu.com is running a tad slow
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: but that's hardcoded into dozens of packages
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: anyway to create the .pot we only need $XGETTEXT
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: yeah
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: it might be easier to just prefer /usr/bin/intltool-update then
[11:13] <seb128> I think so
[11:14] <seb128> no reason to prefer bugged copies
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: alright, I swap the preference and add the XGETTEXT variable
[11:14] <seb128> thanks
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: so we'll need to upload that stuff again at some time
[11:14] <seb128> what stuff?
[11:14] <seb128> the bugged packages?
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: I fixed postgresql yesterday btw, just not yet uploaded
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: yes
[11:15] <pitti> seb128: to have them rebuilt and the pot file extracted
[11:15] <seb128> that cannot be done by hand?
[11:15] <seb128> rebuilding evolution to just get the .pot seems a waste
[11:15] <pitti> seb128: well, it can
[11:15] <pitti> seb128: no, not just for the pot
[11:15] <pitti> seb128: but there certainly will be a new upload anyway
[11:16] <seb128> any hurry?
[11:16] <pitti> seb128: until Breezy release :)
[11:16] <seb128> anything will be upload within 2-3 weeks again
[11:16] <seb128> oh, that's fine
[11:16] <seb128> we have a bunch of GNOME versions before
[11:16] <pitti> seb128: but given the number of outstanding packages we should start fixing that early
[11:17] <seb128> your list is quite small
[11:17] <seb128> I upload 60% of these packages on a normal new GNOME version
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: which is good :-)
[11:17] <seb128> just fix the CDBS hack and we are fine
[11:17] <seb128> I've some stuff to upload today, I'll wait to get your fixed packages on the buildd
[11:18] <pitti> I fixed it, now I test it, then I upload; gimme ~ 15 minutes
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: oh, wait, the dchroots aren't updated until tomorrow anyway
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: so just go ahead, if it's settled in 3 weeks, that's fine
=== Amaranth beats xgettext
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[11:28] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: uploaded, btw
[11:29] <pitti> mvo: here`
[11:29] <pitti> ?
[11:39] <Keybuk> descent src% fakeroot ./dpkg --print-architecture
[11:39] <Keybuk> i386
[11:39] <Keybuk> yay, that's better
[11:39] <pitti> hooray
[11:40] <Keybuk> Unpacking banana (from /home/scott/tmp/banana_1.0.deb) ...
[11:40] <Keybuk> couldn't open log `': No such file or directory
[11:40] <Keybuk> free(): invalid pointer 0xbffff214!
[11:40] <Keybuk> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  sudo ./dpkg -i ~/tmp/banana_1.0.deb
[11:40] <Keybuk> ...
[11:40] <Keybuk> well, partly better
[11:40] <mvo> pitti: yes
[11:40] <daniels> argh, good god
[11:40] <pitti> mvo: can you modify the update-manager package that it creates a POT file during build?
[11:41] <daniels> i wonder if it ever occurred to whoever wrote xf86config that 3095-character strings means that YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG
[11:41] <pitti> mvo: same for synaptic?
[11:41] <Lathiat> daniels: whats that for?
[11:41] <daniels> Lathiat: it's in xorgconfig.c
[11:41] <daniels> the 'string length 3095 is longer than the 509 ANSI C compilers are required to support' warning caught my eye
[11:41] <mvo> pitti: they don't do that right now? they should have a pretty much default config when it comes to gettext
[11:41] <Lathiat> daniels: heh
[11:41] <pitti> mvo: 
[11:42] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/dload-strippedtar.txt
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[11:42] <Keybuk> daniels: ANSI only used to mandate 509 :p
[11:42] <mvo> pitti: ok, I'll check
[11:42] <daniels> Keybuk: right, hence the whole warning bit
[11:42] <Keybuk> oh, sorry, you mentioned that
[11:43] <Keybuk> I always thought that was such a "thumb up the arse" constant
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's not even a power of 2, like real constants
[11:43] <daniels> oh, sure
[11:43] <danielki> 512 - 3
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[11:43] <daniels> but it's a great indication of stupid code ahead
[11:43] <daniels> danielki: one for \0, two for ...
[11:43] <Keybuk> \r\n
[11:43] <Keybuk> ? :p
[11:43] <danielki> if thought of in terms of dwords it makes some sense
[11:43] <daniels> ah yes
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[11:44] <daniels> god, this cursor generation is annoying
[11:44] <daniels> that *has* to go for -25
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=== Keybuk spots the deliberate mistake in the source
[11:46] <Keybuk> if (log) nfmalloc...
[11:46] <Keybuk> no, Keybuk, if (!log) :p
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[11:46] <daniels> gar, this manpage preprocessing thing is annoying me
[11:46] <daniels> heh
[11:47] <Keybuk> 2005-06-10 09:46:52 status k\uffffL\uffff,qx,q\uffff\uffff\uffff\uffff\uffff\uffff$
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[11:47] <Keybuk> hmm.... wrong pointer in there somewhere methinks
[11:47] <daniels> smooth
[11:47] <Amaranth> stupid netsplits
[11:47] <Keybuk> ah, no, I wanted varbufvprintf
[11:47] <Amaranth> if the old me comes back from the dead and knocks me off irc i'll be super pissed
[11:52] <daniels> ah, crap, I hate Romanian kezboards
[11:52] <daniels> grpalts?toggle lets me toggle to Romanian
[11:52] <daniels> but not back to us
[11:53] <Keybuk> why are you on a Romanian keyboard?
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[11:54] <daniels> #10939
[11:54] <daniels> not so much a romanian keyboard as just hte layout
[11:55] <Keybuk> ah
[11:55] <daniels> aha.
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[11:56] <Keybuk> OMFG
=== Keybuk smashes his head through his desk
[11:56] <Keybuk> (after discovering a bug the size of a large planet in the dpkg config file parser)
[11:56] <daniels> whoohoo
[11:56] <thom> not a small moon?
[11:57] <daniels> thom: dpkg ever has small bugs?
[11:57] <Keybuk> Dear iwj, when storing a string you've just found in the file, it helps to strdup it so the memory isn't overwritten by the string in the next line
[11:57] <daniels> i thought it only broke shit no-one cared about, like dpkg-architecture, and dpkg --print-architecture
[12:00] <Keybuk> I deliberately broke dpkg-architecture though
[12:03] <Keybuk> hmm
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[12:03] <Keybuk>   if (!strcmp(user, "branden"))
[12:03] <Keybuk>     cause_strange_divert_bugs();
[12:03] <daniels> heh
[12:04] <danielki> eeep
[12:04] <danielki> I hate this !strcmp() syntax
[12:04] <Keybuk> danielki: read "strcmp" as "do these strings differ?"
[12:05] <Keybuk> it's a common early mistake to try and read it as "are they the same?"
[12:05] <danielki> well but that's not what it's doing
[12:05] <Keybuk> so that's if not the strings differ
[12:05] <danielki> it doesn't return a boolean
[12:05] <danielki> so I prefer using == 0, < 0, > 0
[12:05] <Keybuk> everything's boolean in C :p
[12:06] <danielki> everything converts to boolean, yes
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[12:07] <Keybuk> I went through a phase of doing things like:  if (file == NULL) and stuff
[12:07] <Keybuk> but got bored of it
[12:07] <danielki> that's different
[12:07] <Keybuk> too much typing :p
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[12:10] <pitti> hrmpf, bloody network; I lost everything after "<pitti> seb128: is system-tools-backends in the set of packages you upload soon?"
[12:10] <seb128> I've not received this one
[12:11] <seb128> probably not, but I can do an upload if you want
[12:11] <pitti> not just for the pot
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: I started to collect the packages that only require a rebuild in a list
[12:11] <seb128> there is probably some bug to fix, I can look for one to pretext an upload :p
[12:11] <pitti> hehe
[12:11] <Keybuk> danielki: C doesn't have a boolean type, so nothing converts to boolean
[12:12] <Keybuk> (ignoring the silly typdef in C99 for C++ freaks :p)
[12:12] <danielki> Keybuk: well every expression can be evaluated in a boolean context
[12:12] <danielki> ok now? :)
[12:13] <Keybuk> indeed, and that's implemented as a comparison against zero
[12:13] <danielki> btw I got C++ background
[12:13] <Keybuk> so why add your own comparison against zero?
[12:13] <Keybuk> if (x != 0) ... ends up as cmp(cmp(x, 0), 0)
[12:13] <danielki> Keybuk: for clarification in cases where it's not obvious
[12:14] <pitti> elmo: can I please have libgnomeprintui2.2-dev in concordia's breezy dchroot?
[12:14] <danielki> I wouldn't explicitely compare the return value of say strequal() against 0
[12:14] <Keybuk> if (x) and if (!x) are absurdly common idioms in C though
[12:14] <danielki> yes
[12:14] <danielki> and I don't have a problem with that
[12:14] <pitti> seb128: oh, it doesn't use gnome.mk, so I have to fix it anyway
[12:14] <Keybuk> there is no strequal() in C though ...
[12:14] <danielki> but strcmp() doesn't return a boolean conceptionally
[12:15] <danielki> it was a hypothetical example
[12:15] <Keybuk> there are no C standard library functions that return conceptual booleans
[12:15] <Keybuk> they all return richer information
[12:15] <Keybuk> if (strchr("foo", 'f')) would be wrong, by your assertion, because it returns a pointer not a boolean
[12:15] <Keybuk> etc.
[12:15] <danielki> well yeah
[12:16] <Keybuk> this was pretty deliberate
[12:16] <Keybuk> and is actually why most functions return zero for "I worked"
[12:16] <danielki> I'm not saying my coding style is entirely consequent :)
[12:16] <Keybuk> so they can return lots more useful error information
[12:16] <danielki> I know
[12:16] <danielki> fortunately I'm doing C++ mostly
[12:17] <Keybuk> poor man ;)
[12:17] <danielki> heh
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[12:24] <elmo> pitti: done
[12:24] <pitti> thanks
[12:36] <mvo> pitti: I updated the u-m and synaptic repos. but I have no idea why the pots weren't included in the first place. it's a pretty stock "intltoolize" configureation (that seems to work for update-notifier just fine)
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[12:36] <pitti> mvo: well, all gnome packages are packaged that way, but don't generate a POT automatically
[12:36] <Kamion> daniels: cheers, dude
[12:37] <pitti> mvo: unless you use gnome.mk, you need to add the intltool-update --verbose -p call to debian/rules
[12:37] <daniels> just waiting for the build to finish to verify now; imake outsmarted me before and broke for no reason
[12:37] <daniels> and now I'm in the hillarious situation where I have no keyboard input but shift + control (everything else gets swallowed), but I can't restart X because the builds are running under it :P
[12:38] <daniels> (totally rooted -- SSHing in and trying to fix it with setxkbmap for ten minutes has yielded nothing)
[12:39] <daniels> mjg59: it would be awesome if dasher had symbols
[12:41] <mvo> pitti: wouldn't it be better if we would patch intltool so that it includes the pot file in the dist-rule in the generated po/Makefile? so that at least in the future the problem goes away?
[12:41] <pitti> mvo: if that's possible?
[12:41] <pitti> mvo: but make dist isn't executed at build, is it?
[12:43] <mvo> pitti: right. it was meant as a long term fix. because upstream would need to run intltoolize again in there po dir. then the pot file would be part of the upstream tarball
[12:43] <pitti> mvo: no, that's not the point
[12:43] <mvo> pitti: no?
[12:43] <pitti> mvo: we really need to create the pot during package build
[12:43] <pitti> mvo: e. g. if Ubuntu adds a patch involving strings, we want to have them in the POT
[12:44] <mjg59> daniels: Select "English with lots of punctuation"
[12:44] <pitti> mvo: so if at all, we need to patch intltoolize to add the "create pot" dependency
[12:46] <daniels> mjg59: my hero
[12:47] <mvo> pitti: that means that each package needs to be modified to include this "intltool-update -p"  (because we potentially modifiy string for each package in main)?
[12:47] <pitti> mvo: well, I did a general solution for cdbs+gnome.mk
[12:47] <pitti> mvo: so that Gnome is done
[12:47] <mvo> pitti: for all cdbs packages :) 
[12:47] <pitti> mvo: I asked Riddell to do a similar trick in KDE
[12:48] <pitti> mvo: and many non-Gnome/KDE packages already come with a POT, and adding UBuntu-specific strings is relatively unlikey (and not as important as for Gnome/KDE)
[12:48] <pitti> mvo: so in the end we only need to fix 20ish packages
[12:48] <pitti> mvo: I'm doing that ATM
[12:51] <mvo> pitti: ok, so intltool-update -p and a build-dep on intltool for u-m,u-n,synaptic?
[12:52] <pitti> mvo: it's not already a build-dep?
[12:52] <mvo> pitti: it is, right
[12:53] <mvo> pitti: is it urgent? or is it good enough if it's part of the next regular update
[12:54] <pitti> mvo: oh, it's not that urgent
[12:54] <pitti> mvo: I just go down the list and make sure that it will be fixed in a few weeks at most
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[12:55] <pitti> mvo: the Rosetta guys need POT files for import, so the earlier they have them, the earlier I can build langpacks from Rosetta :-)
[12:57] <fabbione> elmo: please NEW redhat-cluster-suite (the source and a couple of debs need to go in main - lvm2 b-d, the others in universe are ok for now)
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[01:01] <jordi> carlos: dude
[01:01] <jordi> carlos: where's the src for the gnome status pages?
[01:01] <carlos> jordi, I send it when someone asks me for it
[01:01] <carlos> why?
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[01:03] <jordi> I want it :)
[01:03] <jordi> for the lliurex status pages. :)
[01:03] <jordi> carlos: should be in CVS I guess
[01:06] <carlos> jordi, no way, it's so ugly and dark hack I don't want it in a CVS. New version is available as an ARCH repository
[01:06] <carlos> jordi, but the old one is not
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[01:08] <jordi> carlos: new one as in the New Status Pages(TM)?
[01:08] <carlos> yeah
[01:08] <jordi> carlos: nobody expected woody would come out before the new status pages! :P
[01:08] <carlos> the python one
[01:08] <jordi> err, sarge
[01:08] <jordi> once again I need a nap
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[01:09] <jordi> so is that usable?
[01:09] <carlos> not yet
[01:09] <jordi> how far from being usable?
[01:15] <carlos> not too much, I have the database running already 
[01:15] <carlos> jordi, but I cannot give you dates
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[01:22] <jordi> carlos: ok, so can you mail me the hackish code which I'll keep private? :)
[01:23] <carlos> jordi, you are free to share it, is GPL, but will do, don't worry, let me finish my current task...
[01:24] <jordi> k
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[01:35] <daniels> god, the install target is achingly slow tonight
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[01:39] <pitti> elmo: can I please have in conc/breezy: libgsf-gnome-1-dev libgda2-dev
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[01:44] <elmo> pitti: done
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[01:48] <daniels> OH< COCK
[01:48] <daniels> my build would've completed a FULL HOUR EARLIER had festival not been spinning
[01:48] <daniels> godamnit
[01:50] <TerminX> say, does X still need a bunch of manual symlinks to work?
[01:50] <daniels> TerminX: no
[01:50] <daniels> right now, it needs one
[01:50] <daniels> and as soon as this dput is finished, it will need zero
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[01:50] <Amaranth> sucks, i don't know how to find them
[01:50] <TerminX> alright.. I've been holding off upgrading for a few weeks so I'm still using 6.8.2-10
[01:54] <Micksa> if anyone cares
[01:54] <Micksa> "mozilla $file" from cmdline doesn't appear to work if $file contains spaces
[01:54] <daniels> Micksa: mozilla "$file"
[01:54] <Micksa> that either :P
[01:55] <Micksa> gawddammit I sure get the newbie treatment a lot
[01:55] <tseng> works in firefox
[01:55] <tseng> so im pretty sure it works in moz too
[01:56] <daniels> Kamion: enjoy -23
[01:56] <daniels> tseng: nope, he's right
[01:56] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~% echo '<html><head><title>foo bar</title></head><body>foo bar</body></html>' > 'foo bar.html' && mozilla 'foo bar.html'
[01:56] <daniels> /usr/bin/mozilla: line 385: [: /home/daniels/foo: binary operator expected
[01:56] <daniels> zsh: exit 3     mozilla 'foo bar.html'
[01:57] <daniels> it's a pretty obvious lack of quoting thorughout
[01:57] <Treenaks> go daniels :)
[01:58] <tseng> well its fixed in FF then
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[02:05] <fabbione> elmo: thanks for NEW'ing
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[02:06] <pitti> mvo: I didn't see a POT-related change in the latest u-n upload, does that already build a pot?
[02:08] <mvo> pitti: it should, does it not do it?
[02:08] <pitti> mvo: dunno, I just read it at u-changes
[02:09] <pitti> mvo: I'll see tomorrow, then the list is autogenerated again
[02:09] <mvo> pitti: please ping me if it doesn't, it should do it now (I may have forgotten to add that change to the changelog)
[02:09] <pitti> sure, I'll walk the list occasionally in the next time
[02:10] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[02:12] <daniels> argh, this is so not funny
[02:13] <spo0nman> 
[02:13] <daniels> hrm
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[02:22] <trulux> hey pitti 
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[02:30] <pitti> seb128: hm, system-tools-backends and gnome-system-tools don't use cdbs...
[02:30] <seb128> I know
[02:34] <daniels> jesus
[02:34] <daniels> various chunks of X now expect /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb, /usr/lib/X11/xkb, and /usr/share/X11/xkb for XKB data
[02:34] <daniels> and the packaging uses /etc/X11/xkb
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[02:39] <tseng> daniels: i bet it sucks more than dbus
[02:39] <daniels> tseng: yes, it does
[02:40] <daniels> fwiw, the only reason dbus isn't done, is because I'm in the middle of a mirror pulse
[02:40] <daniels> so I still have lots of broken packages, including mono
[02:40] <tseng> :(
[02:41] <tseng> its certainly not urgent, i just like to give you a raft of shit
[02:42] <daniels> watch it :P
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[02:47] <Nafallo> hi all!
[02:48] <AndyFit1> hi Nafallo
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[02:58] <Kamion> mdz: ltsp-client should Depends: openssh-client (>= 1:3.9p1)
[02:58] <Kamion> (for SendEnv)
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[03:18] <doko> jbailey: looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/sablotron/1.0.2-4ubuntu1/ I think we need to sync cdbs from unstable (if there's still something to sync).
[03:19] <pitti> erm, nooo!
[03:19] <pitti> merge, please
[03:19] <pitti> unless jbailey adopts the gnome.mk change
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[03:20] <jbailey> I guess i'm going to have to start thinking about cdbs in debian again, since 1) There's no freeze, and 2) my comaintainer just resigned for Debian.  hmm
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[03:21] <Burgundavia> jbailey, who was your comaintainer
[03:21] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Robert Millan
[03:21] <pitti> what a pity
[03:22] <doko> jbailey: would a sync/merge/whatever possible today?
[03:22] <jbailey> doko: Yup, give me an hour?
[03:22] <pitti> jbailey: cdbs-edit-patch is already in Debian, right?
[03:22] <jbailey> pitti: I'm pretty sure it is.
[03:22] <pitti> jbailey: how do you feel about the POT extraction change?
[03:22] <jbailey> pitti: To gnome.mk?
[03:22] <pitti> jbailey: that's the only other Ubuntu change so far IIRC
[03:22] <pitti> yes
[03:23] <azeem> jbailey: you also start needing to think who to push CDBS' street credibility again.  Everybody in Debian seems to hate it now :(
[03:23] <jbailey> pitti: I defer all of those decisions to seb and the gnome team.  They're welcome to include all the crazy things they want in there.
[03:23] <azeem> gar, s/who/how/
[03:23] <pitti> jbailey: I'm currently changing two dozens of other packages to generate POT files; I'll submit the patches to Debian, too
[03:23] <pitti> azeem: oh, why?
[03:23] <jbailey> azeem: Robert made some crack-headed decisions with it, which is sad.
[03:23] <azeem> yeah
[03:23] <jbailey> azeem: Although so far when I ask people why they don't like cdbs, they can't actually tell me why.
[03:24] <pitti> because it rock!!! :-)
[03:24] <pitti> s/k!/ks!/
[03:24] <jbailey> The majority of them seem unable to distinguish 'cdbs' and 'dbs', which is unfortunate.
[03:24] <azeem> well, the let's change Build-Depends on-the-fly by putting @cdbs@ in it didn't go down well with some people
[03:24] <jbailey> Right, but those people seem unable to accept the "then don't use that feature"
[03:24] <pitti> azeem: erm, nobody forces you to, right?
[03:25] <jbailey> And with the new DAM being a crack-head and refusing packages that use it, didn't help.
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[03:25] <azeem> pitti: some people == ftp-master who reviewed NEW packages with that crack applied
[03:25] <doko> jbailey: cdbs isn't over-documentated
[03:25] <jbailey> azeem: I think probably the ugliest bit is that dh_make --cdbs uses that mode by *Default*
[03:25] <azeem> ugh
[03:26] <pitti> oh, there is a --cdbs switch? Nice... /me makes mental note
[03:26] <jbailey> The compromise that I worked out with the DAM for cdbs2 is that cdbs will continue to support that feature, *however*, it will be crippled such that if you don't have DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="genconfig" set, it'll error rather than update debian/control if it's out of date.
[03:26] <azeem> in any case I think we need some policy to freeze Build-Depends like cdbs way before release.  Robert hacked on and off on it until a couple of days before the hard freeze
[03:27] <azeem> anyway, this is off-topic 
[03:27] <jvw> fwiw, I agree with the policy to reject this type of build-time control mangling in Debian -- and it's likely to be forbidden by release policy too fwiw
[03:27] <jbailey> azeem: It's not horribly off-topic, cdbs development affects a good chunk of Ubuntu as well.
[03:27] <jbailey> jvw: At present that would mean refusing glibc and gcc.
[03:28] <jvw> gcc & glibc have some weirdness that cause some ftp master scripts to complain yeah
[03:28] <jvw> I didn't yet look into that because of the base freeze
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[03:28] <jbailey> jvw: That was my objection to the sudden refusal to accept the packages.  There's prior art for it and nothing in policy that prevents it.
[03:28] <azeem> jvw: are you talking about Build-Depends mangling, or all kinds of control mangling?
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[03:28] <jvw> azeem: basicly all -- there's substitution support in dpkg already
[03:28] <jvw> that should be used, as the Debian policy says
[03:28] <jvw> like shlibs does
[03:29] <jbailey> There's no reason why build-dep's *shouldn't* be auto-generated.
[03:29] <jvw> other control file mangling is only likely to give you problems IMHO
[03:29] <jbailey> It just needs to be done and locked before upload, and die if there's any chance of it happening at buildd time.
[03:29] <jbailey> And jrg agreed to that.
[03:29] <jvw> jbailey: yes, there is -- build-depends are stored in the .dsc, and an autobuild changing that from under it is WRONG
[03:29] <jvw> ah, right
[03:29] <jbailey> jvw: Read again. =)
[03:29] <jvw> I typed before your last two lines :)
[03:30] <jbailey> =)
[03:30] <jvw> anyway, in what cases can it then suddenly die?
[03:30] <jvw> seems to me like a great chance of later on suddenly the package starting to FTBFS
[03:30] <jvw> and, still I don't see *at all* a need for control mangling
[03:30] <jvw> substvars support in dpkg is exactly meant for that, and accepted
[03:30] <jbailey> When using a tool.. cdbs, dpkg, debhelper, etc. there's always a chance of a package FTBFSing at a later date.
[03:30] <jvw> rather than @cdbs@ voodoo
[03:31] <jbailey> Right, except that substvars can't work for build-depends.
[03:31] <jvw> jbailey: true, so I'm not necessarily saying it's not ok
[03:31] <jbailey> Again, it's too late.
[03:31] <jvw> jbailey: why not? They only apply to later stanza's...? Hm, can be
[03:31] <jbailey> No, it's because the build-deps are stored in the .dsc file.
[03:31] <jbailey> @subst@ substitutions happen when control is split into the various binary packages.
[03:32] <jbailey> err, substvars, rather.
[03:32] <jvw> ah, true
[03:32] <jvw> well, I do maintain that the possibility of build-depends changing at build time is a no-no
[03:32] <jbailey> The trick here is that cdbs should be able to make an accurate guess about things like minimum debhelper requirements, etc.
[03:33] <jvw> FTBFS'ing is more like a maintainance problem, I don't think I like it, but I'm not opposed enough to argue against it
[03:33] <jbailey> The gnome team might say universally that they need a minimum version of gnome-libs or something.  That's all bits that cdbs can now.
[03:33] <jbailey> s/now/know/
[03:33] <jvw> well, Debian's package management doesn't support that, and how could buildd's start to know that?
[03:33] <jbailey> Because cdbs is macro-based.
[03:34] <jbailey> So if you say that you want the debhelper feature.
[03:34] <jbailey> It can automatically impliy debhelper >> 4
[03:34] <jbailey> If you have a python app, and a module pulls in dh_python
[03:34] <jbailey> It can know that it needs to update that to 4.2
[03:35] <jbailey> So rather than relying on the developper to specify all these things by hand (which he generally won't), they can be inserted automatically and ease the backporting nightmare.
[03:35] <jvw> that module got updated by an upload, that upload then should of course have the right depends then...
[03:35] <jvw> missing dependency of that module
[03:35] <jbailey> True for depends, not true for build-depends.
[03:36] <jvw> you depend on cdbs, cdbs's module apparantly requires debhelper4.2
[03:36] <jvw> then it that given cdbs version must depend on debhelper4.2
[03:36] <jbailey> Except that there's no need for cdbs to depend on debhelper at all.
[03:36] <jvw> quite clear, and works for lots of years in Debian already
[03:36] <jbailey> You're not required to use debhelper in order to use cdbs.
[03:36] <jbailey> (You'd be insane not to, mind you.. *g*)
[03:36] <pitti> jbailey: the question is now many packages actually use cdbs without debhelper in reality
[03:37] <jbailey> pitti: None.
[03:37] <jbailey> But why should cdbs force you to get a *newer* debhelper, just because in one particular configuration you need a newer version?
[03:37] <jvw> IMHO that's a design flaw in cdbs, but whatever, we'll see what cdbs2 brings
[03:37] <pitti> jbailey: even if there was, having an unnecessary debhelper b-d for one or two packages in the archive is no biggie...
[03:37] <jbailey> Or what about cdbs' distutils support?  Should it also depend on python?  ocaml?  ant?
[03:37] <pitti> jbailey: well, wrt the version you are right
[03:37] <jvw> I simly note that my trust in cdbs is not very high atm due to the frequent breakeage caused also in the last months before release
[03:38] <jvw> that *really* was annoying
[03:38] <jvw> I don't recall at all a debhelper upload suddenly causing tons of packages to FTBFS
[03:38] <jbailey> I do. =)
[03:38] <jbailey> But in any event, most of the breakage in the few months before the Sarge release I was generally unaware of.
[03:38] <jvw> well, debhelper is more mature, it might have done so a while ago indeed
[03:38] <jbailey> We froze cdbs in Ubuntu in January and didn't pull in the updates after that.
[03:39] <jvw> http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/cdbs/news/1.html
[03:40] <doko> jvw: generated control files aren't bad, if they don't change during the build
[03:40] <jvw> if you have such a central build-depends like cdbs, it is a *must* to test building a number of packages with it to see if it breaks
[03:40] <jvw> doko: I agree with that
[03:40] <jbailey> I tried to avoid updating cdbs and initrd-tools after that.  All breakage from that point on was by comaintainers or NMUers who wouldn't accept my rational of "Leave it *alone*, it's good enough"
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[03:41] <jvw> jbailey: I don't blame you for it fwiw, I'm just noting my unhappyness with cdbs maintainance in Debian in general in the period before release :)
[03:41] <jbailey> jvw: RIght, and before every upload I did to Debian until probably mid-last fall when I stopped doing serious new work on it, I used to build every cdbs-using package in the archive with each update.
[03:41] <jbailey> It's hard to convine people to do that when they're NMUing, and the buildd maintainers get upset when you do that automatically. =)
[03:41] <Burgundavia> is this license DFSG free?
[03:41] <Burgundavia> http://www.opencontent.org/opl.shtml
[03:42] <jvw> doko: gcc/glibc have some inaccurateness in the .dsc Binary: field though, but I'll mail/bug later about that :)
[03:42] <doko> it will become interesting, when I want to automatically add/drop a binary package for an automatic build. but you could work around that by building the package twice, or a policy to call a target to regenerate the control file
[03:42] <daniels> Burgundavia: doubt it
[03:42] <daniels> You may not charge a fee for the sole service of providing access to and/or use of the OC via a network (e.g. the Internet), whether it be via the world wide web, FTP, or any other method. 
[03:42] <doko> jvw: you mean packages not built anymore from one package?
[03:42] <jvw> I think .dsc's should have a more accurate Binary: field support, more manifest-like: stating which archs build which binary package -- accurately
[03:42] <jvw> doko: also packages built from it without admitting it iirc
[03:43] <doko> really? that's fun
[03:43] <jvw> doko: oh, that's gcc-2.95 only
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[03:43] <jvw> doko: gcc-2.95-nof is built without the .dsc admitting to it
[03:44] <jvw> doko: will etch ship gcc-2.95?
[03:44] <jbailey> jvw: Anyhow, if you're interested in cdbs and have a love of interesting shell tricks, see the build-common module on svn.debian.org =)
[03:45] <doko> jvw: will m68k need it to build mac kernels? anyway, that's off topic ;-)
[03:45] <jvw> jbailey: actually I'm not, I don't use cdbs and don't want to use it, because I disagree with the fundamental design of it :)
[03:45] <jvw> doko: right, sorry :)
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[04:04] <Burgundavia> daniels, that license is made by the same people as the opl and that is non-free
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[04:23] <pitti> seb128, do you happen to have heard about a polypaudio sink for gstreamer?
[04:23] <seb128> there is one
[04:23] <seb128> it's not built because Debian doesn't has polypaudio
[04:23] <daniels> eww, polypaudio
[04:23] <seb128> pitti: I can build it if you want
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: oh, that would be cool
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: btw, otavio salvador uploaded polypaudio to experimental
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: I spoke with him and we will maintain the package together (using baz trees)
[04:32] <pitti> seb128: with yesterday's fixes polypaudio behaves much better on my system at least
[04:32] <pitti> I'd like to push it into main soon for wider testing, just need to talk with Erik about supportability before
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: using the esd sink with it would forfeit many advantages, so if you could build the sink, that'd rock
[04:34] <seb128> k
[04:34] <seb128> I need to fix the gst-plugins0.8 build with cairo 0.5 first
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: oh, would that mean to build-dep on libpolyp-dev or so?
[04:35] <seb128> yep
[04:35] <seb128> the Debian package has already the code for polypaudio
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: hm, then we need the package in main first
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: so we have to throw it out again if it shouldn't work for us
[04:38] <jani> elmo ping
[04:38] <pitti> Riddell: around?
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[04:42] <Nafallo> maswan: what's up with your syncs today? haven't synced since 5:20.
[04:43] <Nafallo> maswan: ehm. rather your project/trace/ is a bit screwed ;-)
[04:47] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[04:47] <mdz> morning
[04:47] <pitti> mdz: can we put polypaudio into main to receive some testing and be able to build a polypaudio gstreamer sink?
[04:47] <mdz> pitti: sure
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: if it still fails for too many users we might need to throw it out again
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: but at least for me it works quite well now
[04:48] <mdz> pitti: main, not desktop, right?
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[04:48] <pitti> mdz: supported for now to be able to depend on libpolyp-dev for gstreamer
[04:48] <pitti> mdz: depending on how it behaves, we should later drop it again or put it into desktop as esd replacement
[04:49] <mdz> pitti: will that resolve the issues with resampling that I am having?
[04:49] <pitti> mdz: oh, dmix doesn't resample for you? yes, it should
[04:49] <mdz> it sounds awful
[04:49] <pitti> mdz: that's what I mean, dmix is still too flakey to use it direcly
[04:49] <pitti> uh
[04:49] <mdz> I have to start esd with -r 48000 to get reasonable sound
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: ah
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: that's known
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: esd+dmix = the suck
[04:50] <mdz> ok
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: we changed the default gstreamer sink to alsa directly
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: however, that won't happen automatically if you ever changed it manually
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: kick esd for now and switch to alsa, that should work nicely
[04:51] <pitti> seb128: ok, it seems that depending on libpolyp-dev is fine for now
[04:52] <mdz> pitti: also, the esd output for xmms sounds terrible for some reason
[04:52] <mdz> ogg123 and mpg321 sound fine
[04:52] <mdz> but xmms pops and skips
[04:52] <pitti> probably the same bug
[04:52] <pitti> I tried to apply various patches to esd to make it work with the new alsa lib, but it didn't help
[04:54] <seb128> elmo: can you sync gedit gconf-editor libgnomeui gucharmap(incoming) gcalctool(incoming) ?
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[04:56] <mdz> pitti: speaking of which, could you merge the new alsa-driver?  I think jdthood has merged most of our patches now, so it should be good
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: sure, I already reassigned the bug to me
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: just didn't have time yet
[04:57] <mdz> ok, I am a bit behind on bugs :-)
[04:57] <pitti> mdz: I'll do that on monday; I'd like to finish Ubuntu work now and fix some PostgreSQL bugs :-)
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[05:02] <mdz> seb128: what's the word on LaunchpadIntegration?
[05:03] <seb128> mdz: I've discussed about that with jamesh 2 days ago, need to review all the desktop package to count the number of them using all of the differents option to build a menu
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[05:04] <shaya> anyone having problems w/ ctrl-alt-f-key vt switching in X?
[05:04] <seb128> mdz: Mark wants the menu items for the standard Desktop and is fine with the spec's picker for the rest of packages ... we are trying to figure how much work/patching the menu changes require
[05:04] <pitti> shaya: WFM
[05:05] <shaya> hmm
[05:05] <shaya> probably cause I'm on a mixture of -10 and -22
[05:05] <shaya> oh well, can live without them for now
[05:05] <daniels> er, yeah
[05:05] <daniels> don't do that
[05:06] <shaya> well full -22 dont work
[05:06] <shaya> as font issue
[05:06] <daniels> no, but full -23 will
[05:06] <shaya> known problem I beleive
[05:07] <shaya> and if I hold the font packages back, but install the server stuff, can't input anything
[05:07] <shaya> so holding server and kebyoard stuff back
[05:07] <shaya> and X works fine mostly this way
[05:07] <daniels> sounds like you've created symlinks to fix stuff in the past, and they're coming back to eat your soul
[05:08] <mdz> seb128: didn't sivang do that review already?  it's in the wiki somewhere
[05:09] <seb128> mdz: he has reviewed the "about" boxes
[05:10] <seb128> which would be an easy part to hack ...
[05:10] <seb128> menu are tricky because they are not standard, every app list the items to put here
[05:11] <Nafallo> maswan: thanx :-)
[05:18] <shaya> daniels: I dont know why you assume I have a soul
[05:18] <shaya> :)
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[05:22] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
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[05:29] <seb128> elmo: thanks
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[05:46] <doko> seb128: want 11680 back?
[05:46] <doko> tell gnome-terminal that it should start a login shell ...
[05:47] <seb128> doko: bah, you have a bug open about this on Debian for 130 days that you have not closed
[05:47] <seb128> doko: "bash" should source it?
[05:47] <doko> in Debian? didn't see it.
[05:47] <seb128> doko: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=292023
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[05:48] <doko> seb128: .bash_profile is only sourced, if it's a login shell. but you can tell gnome-terminal to start a login shell
[05:48] <seb128> k
[05:50] <doko> 292023 is something else, but maybe invalid
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[05:51] <seb128> doko: ubuntu bug closed, thanks
[05:51] <Stargazer_> Hi.. nobody is answering me in #ubuntu..  I'm new to Ubuntu 5.04 PPC.. I have a few questions about playing video.. I have no problem installing VLC and it will play video (avi,divx) but never with sound.  If I use the Totem player it always plays sounds but no video.  Now, I install mplayer and I go to quicktime.com for example and the plugin downloads a movie trailer to 100% and then does nothing more at all.. no sound/no video.
[05:52] <seb128> Stargazer_: that's not an user chan
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[05:52] <Stargazer_> Any idea where I would find a user channel for ubuntu?
[05:53] <seb128> #ubuntu
[05:53] <Stargazer_> That's where no-one is answering me.
[05:53] <Kamion> seb128: you meant "this isn't a user chan", otherwise it looks like you're saying that #ubuntu isn't a user channel
[05:53] <bob2> Stargazer_: try the user list then, http://lists.ubuntu.com/
[05:53] <seb128> Kamion: right
[05:53] <Simira> Stargazer_: try your country channel? Where are you from?
[05:54] <seb128> Stargazer_: for totem use totem-xine rather, or totem-gstreamer with gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg
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[05:55] <Stargazer_> I'm from Canada
[05:56] <Simira> Stargazer_: try #ubuntu-ca ?
[05:56] <Stargazer_> Ok.. didn't realize that channel existed... thanks
[05:57] <jlj> Stargazer_: try #videolan for help with vlc
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[06:01] <shaya> what's the right answer to this Q
[06:01] <shaya> "The X system keyboard settings differ from your current GNOME keyboard settings.  Which set would you like to use?"
[06:01] <shaya> X? gnome?
[06:02] <infinity> shaya : Doe syour keyboard work in GNOME?
[06:02] <infinity> shaya : If so, I'd pick that one. :)
[06:02] <shaya> I'm currently in gnome
[06:02] <shaya> but I'd assume its working b/c its using X settings
[06:03] <shaya> and clicking "Gnome" would change X and clicking X would change Gnome
[06:03] <shaya> ls
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[06:12] <shaya> anyways -23 seems to work fine
[06:12] <shaya> yay
[06:12] <shaya> at least once I changed font paths to shared
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[06:20] <susus> JaneW: ping
[06:21] <luis_> this is not *quite* on topic, but does anyone know why ooo 1.9 has not been updated recently to the newer michael-released ooo builds?
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[07:09] <Kamion> What happened to the Firefox and Evolution icons in the top panel on fresh installations?
[07:10] <Kamion> otherwise, a fresh installation seems to work on at least i386 today
[07:10] <Kamion> whoa, no more "open terminal" entry on the desktop context menu?
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[07:13] <luis_> apt-get install nautilus-open-terminal
[07:13] <tseng> luis_: how does that make sense?
[07:14] <luis_> how does what make sense?
[07:14] <Amaranth> tseng: regular users don't need to open a terminal all the time
[07:14] <mdz> Kamion: I noticed both of those as well
[07:14] <tseng> moving the terminal button into a seperate package
[07:14] <luis_> because most users shouldn't have to know what a terminal is
[07:15] <luis_> much less have it as the first option in their file manager
[07:15] <luis_> and because the new one in that package is much more powerful/flexible
[07:15] <mdz> I have a keyboard shortcut for a terminal; I don't use the context menu for that anyway
[07:15] <luis_> so it is actually more useful for the power users who want it there
[07:15] <tseng> ok, ill try it
[07:15] <mdz> Kamion: which version of dpkg was used in that test?
[07:15] <luis_> it actually opens terminals in the right directory, for example, if you're browsing a directory and right-click there
[07:15] <tseng> i have a keybinding, but on new/other systems
[07:15] <tseng> i am in the habit of using that in the context menu
[07:15] <mdz> Kamion: debootstrap fails for me with current dpkg
[07:16] <Kamion> mdz: 1.13.7
[07:16] <Kamion> works fine on fresh installations
[07:16] <mdz> oh, never mind, that was a kernel thing
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[07:16] <mdz> dpkg fails with an empty available file under 2.6.12
[07:16] <Kamion> hm, lots of warnings from new findutils
[07:16] <tseng> luis_: show me the power!
[07:16] <Treenaks> mdz: hm, 2.6.12 can load modules again?
[07:16] <lamont> findutils was supposed to break a few things, right Kamion?>
[07:17] <lamont> 2.6.12 isn't doing abi versioning right now, afaik
[07:17] <daniels> tseng: mirror kick is still running
[07:17] <daniels> xlib's locale support has defeated me for tonight; g'night
[07:17] <daniels> lamont: correct
[07:17] <tseng> bye daniels.
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[07:18] <luis_> <blink>
[07:18] <luis_> computer is back?
[07:18] <Amaranth> hmm
[07:18] <Amaranth> if a GNOME release slips does Ubuntu's release slip too?
[07:18] <mdz> Treenaks: I don't know what you mean, it has always loaded modules
[07:18] <mdz> the ABI changes without warning, though, so you need to reboot after upgrading it
[07:19] <Kamion> lamont: haven't noticed anything *break* yet ...
[07:20] <mdz> Amaranth: possibly
[07:20] <lamont> I thought he mentioned a dh_something that broke
[07:21] <Kamion> that would be fun
[07:21] <mdz> mvo: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99upgrade-notifier: FAILED open or read
[07:22] <Treenaks> mdz: yes, on my last reboot it wouldn't work anymore
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[07:22] <mdz> working fine here
[07:22] <Treenaks> mdz: no PCI stuff anymore, empty lsmod output etc.
[07:23] <dieman> crazy. one of my users had a bug with matlab on ubuntu and the techsupport didn't do the 'your not running redhat!' response :)
[07:23] <dieman> (64bit even)
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[07:24] <Mez> god... gnupg takes a long time to compile
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[07:24] <mvo> mdz: when did you got that message?
[07:24] <mvo> mdz: oh, I see
[07:26] <mdz> mvo: during my most recent upgrade
[07:29] <infinity> lamont : I think you have to define a handler for each signal individually, like signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handler_foo)
[07:29] <infinity> lamont : But you can use the same handler for all, just just have to set them individually (in a loop or something, whatever, be creative)
[07:30] <Mithrandir> dieman: amd64++ :-)
[07:30] <tseng> Mithrandir++
[07:30] <Mithrandir> *blush*
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[07:34] <mvo> mdz: it looks like dpkg prints it udring unpack ...
[07:35] <mdz> mvo: oh, interesting
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[07:35] <mvo> mdz: but I haven't figured out more yet :/
[07:37] <mvo> mdz: the message itself comes from md5sum, might be a bug in the conffile code of dpkg
[07:38] <mdz> mvo: oh, dpkg started using coreutils md5sum instead of its own
[07:39] <mvo> mdz: looking over the strace output it seems to use the systems tar now too
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[07:58] <lamont> Kamion: you around still?
[07:59] <Kamion> lamont: yes
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[08:00] <Kamion> hooray, base-config all checked into arch
[08:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion++
[08:00] <Mithrandir> you rock.
[08:00] <Mithrandir> (as usual :-)
[08:02] <mdz> Kamion: saw your patch for doc-base; are you doing bootclean.sh as well?
[08:02] <mdz> Kamion: re: base-config, yay!
[08:04] <Kamion> mdz: hadn't noticed bootclean.sh, although I saw something fly by in the boot process; sure, I'll do that
[08:04] <Kamion> (colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/base-config--ubuntu--0)
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: do we have all the history from svn?
[08:05] <Kamion> yes
[08:05] <mdz> ROCK
[08:05] <Mithrandir> whoa
[08:05] <Mithrandir> that's good
[08:05] <Kamion>     Author: joeyh
[08:05] <Kamion>     Date: 2000-01-06 20:57:52 GMT
[08:05] <Kamion>     Initial checkin.
[08:05] <mdz> lifeless: congratulations
[08:05] <Kamion> through to patch-1171
[08:06] <mdz> are you using hct, or doing it by hand?
[08:06] <Kamion> and I merged everything by diffing against a source package, and applying diffs one by one in piecewise fashion, so I know the final result is OK
[08:06] <Kamion> I haven't checked previous revisions
[08:06] <Kamion> mdz: using baz for the moment
[08:07] <mdz> did you break down the Ubuntu changes into branches?
[08:07] <Kamion> no ...
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[08:08] <Kamion> just into patch-per-feature
[08:08] <Kamion> it was too hard to work out what depended on what else, with that amount of stuff
[08:08] <mez> ahh :D
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[08:15] <Kamion> mdz: sysvinit fixed; patch was already in the Debian BTS
[08:16] <Kamion> (although I reinvented it byte-for-byte identical before noticing that)
[08:16] <Kamion> night all
[08:16] <mvo> night Kamion 
[08:16] <mdz> Kamion: night
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[08:25] <sabdfl> night kamion
[08:25] <sabdfl> really glad the import process is underway properly
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[08:28] <mdz> doko: should we just drop the dependency from xerces-j now?
[08:28] <KaiL> stupid ATI driver :(
[08:28] <mez> :P @ Kail :d
[08:28] <mdz> I mean libxml-commons-resolvel1.1-java
[08:28] <KaiL> has nobody ever told them, that there are People, who have Laptops?
[08:29] <KaiL> and that those can't get linux drivers from the laptop vendor (as their excuse for windows is..)
[08:30] <doko> mdz: yes, I'm currently preparaing an upload
[08:31] <KaiL> not to mention, that these laptop vendors can also get no S3 compatible drivers :/
[08:31] <mdz> doko: oh, ok.  I was just looking at it and it seems to build OK with java-gcj/ecj
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[08:32] <mdz> so we can change that at the same time
[08:32] <doko> exactly
[08:33] <mdz> doko: unfortunately it seems we have more packages still using kaffe which need fixing
[08:33] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/rdepends/kaffe/kaffe
[08:34] <mdz> with this java stuff it always seems that we are nearing the end, but we never quite reach it :-)
[08:35] <doko> hmm, yes, looks like a longer evening ...
[08:40] <Lathiat> hmm, esd sounds like ass with dmix stuff in ubuntu but polypaudio is good
[08:40] <Lathiat> yet ive had esd working with dmix stuff fine before *humm*
[08:41] <mez> hmm
[08:41] <mez> if packages for breezy dont depend on a verison of any of it's depends, as long as all those depends exist in hoary, at some version, it can be used in hoary right?
[08:42] <mez> no I'm being an idiot
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[09:06] <dabishop> has anyone had luck installing Haory on an iMac G5?
[09:07] <sladen> dabishop: I believe it 'just works'
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[09:13] <mdz> there are some bug reports in bugzilla
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[09:39] <mdz> elmo: us.archive seems to be in some distress (again?)
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[09:43] <mdz> it's giving lots of 404s
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[10:00] <mdz> Kamion: breezy-live-amd64.iso came surprisingly close to working
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[10:10] <Mez> can i be botehred to install a breezy pbuild
[10:13] <mdz> infinity: when you return, please see if you can help me explain this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libd/libdate-manip-perl/5.44-1/libdate-manip-perl_5.44-1_20050608-2019-i386-successful.gz
[10:14] <mdz> infinity: the .deb ends up missing everything but the stuff installed by debhelper; building it locally works
[10:14] <mdz> infinity: the build log indicates that it is installing to debian/tmp for some reason, though the command line clearly points to debian/libdate-manip-perl
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[10:17] <katoc> hi!! i need to add packages to installation cd 
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[10:21] <\sh> hmmm..postgresql 7.5.4 is not in the archives :(
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[10:23] <ska-fan> 7.4.5?
[10:23] <ska-fan> There is no 7.5
[10:24] <\sh> Package: postgresql
[10:24] <\sh> Binary: postgresql-contrib, postgresql-client, postgresql-doc, postgresql, postgresql-dev
[10:24] <\sh> Version: 7.5.4
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[10:26] <ska-fan> There is no postgresql 7.5: http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/source/
[10:26] <ska-fan> That must be a typo. But then again, who knows, maybe not.
[10:26] <lamont> mdz: neato.
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[10:30] <lamont> mdz: current breezy in your build environment?
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[10:35] <Loki|muh> hi
[10:35] <Loki|muh> I want to compile php4-mysql on my own because of segfaults corresponding to another package not in ubuntu. how can I do this without compiling all php?
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[10:46] <mdz> lamont: yes
[10:46] <infinity> Yeah, works smashingly on an up to date system here.  Interesting.
[10:48] <infinity> More to the point, I'm not entirely sure where it's pulling debian/tmp from.  Hrm.
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[10:51] <{Seb}> hi all
[10:52] <{Seb}> any ideas when colony 2 will be released?
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[10:53] <mdz> {Seb}: it isn't scheduled yet; I expect we'll release one sometime after the live CD is back in working condition
[10:53] <lamont> infinity: next try it with pkgstriptranslations turned on, and then gcc-opt
[10:53] <{Seb}> i'm thinking of moving back to ubuntu from SUSE
[10:53] <{Seb}> the only thing is that the kernel in Hoary ain't inotified
[10:54] <{Seb}> two questions about breezy
[10:54] <{Seb}> 1. will there be better bluetooth support?
[10:54] <{Seb}> 2. will gnome 2.12 be included?
[10:54] <{Seb}> 3. will the kernel be inotified
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[10:55] <JanC> gnome 2.12 should be AFAIK
[10:55] <{Seb}> and also, what is the GNOME 10x10 thing i keep seeing everywhere
[10:56] <infinity> lamont : Just tried it in a live chroot, same results.
[10:56] <\sh> 10% of all Desktop Installations in 2010
[10:56] <{Seb}> now that's a goal
[10:56] <JanC> http://live.gnome.org/10x10
[10:56] <lamont> live chroot?  == build-breezy-live/chroot-breezy?
[10:56] <\sh> The Opposite of 90% of all Desktop Installation in 20010
[10:56] <{Seb}> doesn't linux in general only have about 1%?
[10:56] <azeem> there's a song by a german pop group which goes 'Meine Zeit wird kommen im Jahre 2010'
[10:57] <infinity> lamont : No, as in "a real live buildd chroot".
[10:57] <azeem> sounds like the appropriate soundtrack for GNOME
[10:57] <infinity> lamont : build-breezy/chroot-breezy, on the buildd in question.  Built fine.
[10:57] <infinity> lamont : How's that irritate you?
[10:58] <{Seb}> i'm going to format my machine and move back to hoary
[10:58] <doko> infinity, lamont: please kick sablotron to the buildd's again. a fixed cdbs is in the archives
[10:58] <{Seb}> when colony 2 is released, i'll probally go up to breezy
[10:58] <{Seb}> thanks gang
[10:58] <{Seb}> bye all
[10:59] <JanC> azeem : it's a good song ? :)
[10:59] <infinity> doko : On it.
[10:59] <mdz> {Seb}: the kernel in hoary does in fact have inotify, it's just disabled by default
[10:59] <{Seb}> an old version though
[10:59] <{Seb}> i'll talk again
[10:59] <azeem> it rocks somewhat at least
[10:59] <azeem> I like it
[10:59] <{Seb}> once i've formated and back on ubuntu
[10:59] <lamont> infinity: time to try it again on the actual buildd where it failed, eh?
[10:59] <JanC> what band is this ?
[10:59] <mdz> it was the latest version available at the time that Hoary released
[11:00] <azeem> Echt
[11:00] <JanC> yeah, just found it
[11:00] <mdz> /usr/bin/ld: warning: libstdc++.so.5, needed by /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLU.so, may conflict with libstdc++.so.6
[11:00] <infinity> lamont : That was on the buildd it failed on. :/
[11:01] <mdz> ^^ that's not a big deal, right?  because libstdc++ has versioned symbols?
[11:01] <infinity> lamont : The only thing left is to do a build in REDO, but it should be identical to the by-hand build I just did.
[11:01] <infinity> (will do anyway, for kicks)
[11:01] <infinity> doko : kicked, BTW.
[11:02] <doko> mdz: do you still b-d against xlibmesa-glu?
[11:02] <doko> infinity: thanks
[11:02] <mdz> doko: this is a package I am trying to make buildable on both hoary and breezy
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[11:02] <mdz> and was building on hoary
[11:04] <lamont> mdz: buildd's will take first installable one (which _is_ diff than debian), so you could Build-Depend <breezy-pkg>|<hoary-pkg> where breezy's package doesn't exist in hoary
[11:04] <mdz> the resulting package seems to work
[11:04] <mdz> lamont: the trick is, it doesn't build with gcc-4.0 yet
[11:04] <mdz> so I force it to 3.4
[11:04] <mdz> which means the new ABI, both in hoary and breezy
[11:05] <lamont> ah, neato
[11:05] <doko> is this myth?
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[11:05] <mdz> yes
[11:05] <Mez> mdz, if only that could be done in EVERYTHING until the transition was done proplery :D
[11:05] <lamont> Mez: that just forces the transition
[11:05] <mdz> it would be preferably to build with default gcc in hoary, I think
[11:05] <mdz> preferable, even
[11:05] <mdz> but that's non-trivial
[11:05] <lamont> mdz: almost certainly
[11:05] <doko> mdz: there are some apps in hoary/universe which may break ...
[11:05] <Mez> :P
[11:07] <infinity> Meh.
[11:07] <lamont> does archive.u.c/ubuntu/dists/hoary-security accurately track security.u.c?
[11:07] <\sh> X11/Xlib.h issue fixed in xorg -23? 
[11:07] <infinity> lamont, mdz : It's either a heisenbug, or a transient bug that's since been fixed in some build-dep or other.  An automated rety on the same buildd also built the package properly.
[11:08] <doko> \sh, no, look at the changelog ...
[11:08] <\sh> doko: yeah...i was missing this entry
[11:08] <mdz> infinity: that's _disturbing_
[11:08] <infinity> mdz : Tell me about it.
[11:09] <mdz> infinity: if you could make a new source upload and check that it builds properly, that'd be great
[11:09] <\sh> doko: I've uploaded most of the stuff from Unfrgiven now all the things are missing concerning xorg issue...and ocaml.:(
[11:09] <infinity> Will do.
[11:10] <doko> daniels: any estimates, when xorg headers will be in the final place?
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[11:12] <doko> Kamion, mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/rdepends/kaffe/kaffe lists the alternatives as well, where kaffe is not the first alternative. so it lists a bit too much
[11:13] <mdz> doko: ok, I'll re-germinate and see what happens
[11:13] <mako> dholbach, tseng: dudes
[11:13] <dholbach> mako: ?
[11:14] <tseng> mako: dude.
[11:14] <\sh> duderenos?
[11:14] <mako> dholbach, tseng: http://mako.cc/outgoing/woman_test.png
[11:14] <mako> that's an add i saw once
[11:14] <\sh> the big lebowski..yeah...thats it...
[11:15] <\sh> wow
[11:15] <dholbach> hahaha! :)
[11:15] <tseng> mako: nice!
[11:15] <\sh> we can use it as "please use beagle to check"
[11:15] <mako> i kept it because i thought it untrue
[11:15] <mako> because it couldn't be more likely than i think when i knew i had HEAPS of pornography on my computer
[11:16] <mdz> doko: xml-crimson still build-depends on kaffe
[11:16] <tseng> well if you are a trusting middle age woman
[11:16] <tseng> you might not suspect your husband to fill your computer with porn
[11:16] <Nafallo> lol
[11:16] <tseng> good thing beagle runs as a normal users
[11:16] <tseng> *phew*
[11:16] <Nafallo> hehe
[11:17] <tseng> TAKE THAT HOUSEWIVES
[11:17] <\sh> hmm
[11:17] <\sh> that reminds me of one of my old customers
[11:17] <mako> tseng: if you were married to me, you might
[11:17] <mako> and i were married to any man, i would
[11:18] <tseng> if you were sitting in your apartment and something was making a terrible buzzing noise for the last several minutes
[11:18] <\sh> visit him at home...next day, I got a call of his wife.."Did u install this *censored* p0rn on our homecomputer?"
[11:18] <tseng> would you get up and check it?
[11:18] <mako> tseng: depends on how long
[11:18] <mako> tseng: i would wait a few minuteds
[11:18] <tseng> i think I will too.
[11:19] <Nafallo> \sh: pervert
[11:19] <Nafallo> ;-)
[11:19] <infinity> doko : sablotron is still FTBFS... Trying patch debian/patches/00-relibtoolize.patch at level 0...1...2...failure.
[11:19] <\sh> Nafallo: i didn't do anything..it was his p0rn
[11:20] <Nafallo> \sh: that's what all those supporterguys say yes ;-)
[11:20] <\sh> Nafallo: haha...yeah i know
[11:20] <\sh> http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09/news_6127219.html
[11:21] <mako> http://www.sexblo.gs/xxx/pornmath.gif
[11:21] <\sh> Nafallo: this morning my colleague came to me, saw some nice chickitas on my desktop...and asked "where r ur pr0n movies". i said: not on this company laptop...*paus* they're at home on my portable 500tb usb3 hd"
[11:21] <doko> infinity, jbailey: I'm lost ... it builds fine in unstable
[11:22] <mako> that is the diagram from a patent for an algorithm that claimed to be able automatically detect porn
[11:22] <Nafallo> \sh: hehe :-)
[11:22] <mako> the picture of the naked women with (a) no nipples and (b) high-heals that appear to be part of her body is great
[11:23] <\sh> http://kurioses.blogweb.de/archives/8-Sucht-jemand-Kontakt.html <- this will prevent pr0n at all
[11:24] <mako> it's amazing how much that math *doesn't* work
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[11:24] <tseng> oh wow
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[11:24] <\sh> ah...
[11:24] <chol> hi, is there any newer xorg debs than 6.8.2 availible?
[11:25] <tseng> chol: the ones we have arent broken enough for your tastes?
[11:25] <\sh> some of my colleagues wanted to known, to whom those jdub asses belonging ;)
[11:25] <tseng> chol: because daniels will be awake again in a few hours
[11:25] <jbailey> doko: Which package, sorry?
[11:25] <chol> tseng, hehe, i've only found one thing that annoys me so far
[11:26] <tseng> mako: so the beagle firefox plugin.. you can turn it off for porn sites
[11:26] <tseng> mako: handy.
[11:26] <chol> tseng, since my fastest ubuntu is 600mhz atm i'm not so keen on compiling
[11:26] <chol> tseng, i'll get back later and ask daniels then, thanks
[11:26] <doko> jbailey: sablotron
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[11:27] <Nafallo> tseng: beagle-firefox-what? :-)
[11:27] <Nafallo> tseng: where can I get that thing? :-)
[11:27] <tseng> Nafallo: sshhh
[11:27] <\sh> mono-gnome-marriage
[11:27] <\sh> gnome#
[11:27] <tseng> read the beagle wiki.
[11:27] <Nafallo> tseng: oki
[11:28] <mako> tseng: i could have used that when i was 16 years old
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[11:28] <\sh> so if this is becoming the truth, then I understand why balmer and szulik ate together the last time
[11:28] <jbailey> Feh.  Stupid mirror Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/sablotron/sablotron_1.0.2-4ubuntu1.diff.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[11:29] <Amaranth> us is having issues, isn't it?
[11:29] <tseng> us mirror always has issues
[11:29] <Amaranth> that's what someone was saying eariler
[11:29] <Amaranth> i wish i could spell
[11:29] <Amaranth> i blame being awake 25 hours
[11:30] <jbailey> Amaranth: Right.  ca. points to us.
[11:30] <LinuxJones> \sh, why is that... sorry I just joined ?
[11:30] <\sh> LinuxJones: what?
[11:31] <jbailey> doko: You're getting a failure on relibtoolise applying?
[11:31] <infinity> jbailey : Yup.
[11:32] <LinuxJones> \sh, about Ballmer and Szulik having lunch 
[11:32] <\sh> LinuxJones: u mean "balmer and szulik eating together"?
[11:32] <LinuxJones> :)
[11:32] <jbailey> infinity: Aren't you supposed to be asleep?
[11:33] <jbailey> doko: Looks like a bad clean pass happened at some point.  Want me to fix and upload?
[11:34] <\sh> LinuxJones: w8...i will give u some infos
[11:34] <LinuxJones> \sh, ok
[11:35] <infinity> jbailey : Haven't slept yet.  Fully plan to very soon.
[11:35] <\sh> LinuxJones: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1823449,00.asp
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[11:40] <doko> jbailey: yes, if you have the sources already on your disk
[11:40] <jbailey> Yup, I've got it here and tested the build.
[11:40] <jbailey> The libtoolise patch is a bit confused.
[11:41] <Nafallo> tseng: damn. this is kewl! :-)
[11:42] <doko> ouch, found a fastjar bug ...
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[11:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: how's bergen?
[11:46] <ogra> Mithrandir, GRR
[11:47] <ogra> i'm stuck in amsterdam
[11:47] <ogra> sitting in the ibis hotel... KLM fucked up all fligh plans...
[11:47] <Mithrandir> ogra: ew :(
[11:47] <Mithrandir> that sucks.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> like, royally.
[11:47] <ogra> absolutely...
[11:48] <infinity> mdz : New source upload built fine.  I'm off to bed, finally.
[11:48] <mdz> infinity: night
[11:48] <ogra> i missed my filght at 12 because of a accident on the motorway (was stuck about an hour).....
[11:48] <ogra> so i rebooked to the next flight at 5pm
[11:49] <ogra> nicely they delayed this one for over an hour, just after i checked in
[11:49] <ogra> when i arrived here, i could just see the flight to bergen leaving
[11:50] <mvo> hey ogra 
[11:51] <ogra> the only funny thing is, that the captain told us _why_ actually the filght was delayed....
[11:52] <ogra> on the 12:00 flight (where i was supposed to be on) they had a engine breakdown... (it was the same plane).....which they "fixed quickly" (his words)
[11:52] <ogra> btw, it was a 50ppl plane with propellers :)
[11:52] <ogra> hey mvo 
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[11:55] <jbailey> doko: Done, I'll check on it when I get back from the gym.
[11:57] <doko> jbailey: stop!
[11:58] <jbailey> doko: Err.. I've already dput'd.
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[11:59] <doko> jbailey: no, does liblog4j-java look ok?