[01:27] <pepsi> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11758
[01:27] <pepsi> ?
[01:30] <KaiL_> if I read that error correctly, the folder must exist, not be removed
[01:30] <pepsi> it already exists
[01:30] <KaiL_> which is required for pre-rm
[01:30] <pepsi> there were 2 files in there that didnt make much sense
[01:31] <pepsi> and like i said, rm'ing it made it work
[01:32] <KaiL_> there I see only an error because the folder doesn't exist (in other words: after it got deleted)..?!
[01:33] <pepsi> i dont understand... /var/lib/mozilla-firefox did indeed exist.. i was guessing that it was looking for something inside there
[01:33] <pepsi> i could install again and investigate further
[01:33] <KaiL_> find: /var/lib/mozilla-firefox/: No such file or directory <<this seams to cause the pre-removal script to fail
[01:34] <pepsi> right
[01:35] <Mez> Kail_: known bug in findutils
[01:35] <Mez> if the folders an empty folder
[01:35] <Mez> no - sorry - just with a find command with multiple folders
[01:35] <Mez> it';s being fixed upstream
[01:35] <KaiL_> so the "error" is, that the folder is empty?
[01:35] <pepsi> there were 2 files in it
[01:36] <Mez> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=313079
[01:37] <Mez> hey, anyone here with accuess to amin ? if so cna they rebuild findutils - it's been fixed upstream
[01:40] <pepsi> was filing the bug report the most appropriate thing to do? 
[01:41] <pepsi> i never know if problems i find are already known and being fixed or what.. you know?
[01:41] <KaiL_> I think so - would be great, if everybody would do and I don't only find "bugreports" on pro-linux.de, heise.de or golem.de ;)
[02:21] <mdz> lifeless: around?
[02:24] <doko> mdz: would you mind probing libant1.6-java for main?
[02:27] <Mez> k3b needs rebuilding for breezy doesnt it?
[02:30] <doko> Mez: do you fix it?
[02:31] <Mez> I've taken the current package for hoary and am repackaginfg for breezy
[02:31] <Mez> it seems to be building ok
[02:31] <Mez> in a breezy chroot
[02:31] <Mez> unless there was something else that needed doing previously
[02:34] <doko> Mez, no, it doesn't
[02:35] <Mez> nothing else needs doing? just rebuilding?
[02:35] <Mez> well - well se eif it builds ok (IT's still buulding
[02:35] <Mez> if it does, wanna sponsor it?
[02:36] <doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/k3b/0.11.23-0ubuntu4/
[02:36] <mdz> doko: it looks very good so far
[02:36] <mdz> no more kaffe or classpath
[02:36] <mdz> I'll post the complete output
[02:36] <doko> yippie!
[02:37] <Mez> yeah i noticed doko ... lol - I'm not at that stage yet ... so i'll probably crash out :d
[02:37] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/anastacia.txt
[02:37] <mdz> doko: if you can confirm that all of the java packages in that list are properly packaged, I can do the promotions now
[02:40] <mdz> my list is ant bcel cup jakarta-log4j1.2 javax-servletapi2.3 jlex jsch junit libbsf-java libcommons-logging-java libcommons-net-java libgnucrypto-java libgnuinet-java libgnujaf-java libgnujaxp-java libgnumail-java libjaxp1.2-java libjdepend-java libjessie-java liblogkit-java liboro-java libregexp-java libxalan2-java libxerces2-java libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java rhino xml-crimson
[02:40] <doko> mdz: we did have a bug in ecj-bootstrap, infinity did build the fixed version in universe, needing libant1.6-java, so this is the only unclean package
[02:41] <doko> but when we promote libant1.6-java to main, that's again a clean build.
[02:41] <Mez> lol
[02:41] <Mez> nah it just bombed
[02:41] <doko> mdz: bcel, cup rhino seem to be unrelated
[02:42] <mdz> doko: bcel is a build-dep of libxalan2-java
[02:42] <mdz> rhino is a build-dep of bsf
[02:42] <mdz> cup is a build-dep of libxalan2-java
[02:44] <doko> mdz: ok, I didn't touch these. wasabi did convert these to java-gcj-compat, they should be fine.
[02:44] <mdz> ok, as long as each of those has been looked over by you or wasabi
[02:44] <mdz> confirm?
[02:45] <doko> wait, I'll look at the packages, that don't have a -ubuntuN suffix
[02:47] <pepsi> so you guys build packages for breezy eh?
[02:48] <mdz> all your breezy are belong to us
[02:49] <GammaRay> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/r/rxvt-unicode/rxvt-unicode_5.3-1_i386.deb  MD5Sum mismatch
[02:49] <GammaRay> bad file?
[02:49] <Mez> GammaRay, us archive = fault
[02:49] <Mez> use archive.ubuntu.com
[02:50] <doko> mdz: looks fine, all packages touch by you, wasabi, or me.
[02:52] <GammaRay> Mez: thanks
[02:54] <mdz> doko: migrated to main
[02:54] <doko> mdz: cool
[02:54] <mdz> anastacia output is much shorter now :-)
[02:55] <doko> mdz: something else on the list: kde-i18n should not be demoted, as well as amd64-libs-dev, gcc will depend on it soon again to build i386 biarch
[02:55] <mdz> doko: please review the proposed demotions to universe at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/anastacia.txt and add them to supported if they are sane
[02:56] <mdz> heh
[02:56] <mdz> I will not move amd64-libs-dev or kde-i18n until things are settled
[02:56] <mdz> the -doc packages for the java stuff I just promoted should definitely be seeded
[02:57] <doko> sure, let me do that tomorrow, I need some practice
[02:59] <mdz> doko: ok, thanks for all your attention on the java packages
[02:59] <mdz> doko: perhaps some sleep is in order :-)
[02:59] <mdz> Keybuk: hello, you world-breaker you
[02:59] <doko> yes, I won't start early tomorrow ;)
[02:59] <Keybuk> which world did I break this time? :p
[03:00] <Keybuk> and can I get "DESTROYER OF WORLDS" on my Business Cards? :p
[03:00] <mdz> Keybuk: dpkg is the new gtk bug
[03:00] <Mez> lol
[03:00] <mdz> all unresolved problems are delegated to you
[03:00] <doko> Keybuk: it's shorter if you ask, which you didn't break ;)
[03:00] <Keybuk> not for the first time, I'm suddenly glad I don't work for you, mdz :p
[03:01] <Mez> wait, I thought you did Keybuk ?
[03:01] <mdz> Keybuk: you're glad to be part of the launchpad inferno? ;-)
[03:01] <Keybuk> not especially
[03:01] <Keybuk> Mez: nah, I'm not distro-team
[03:01] <mdz> the distro team is an oasis of joy
[03:02] <Mez> sorry - I got confused... someone once told me that mdz was the "big boss" for canonical
[03:02] <Keybuk> I _cause_ merge requests, I don't do them :p
[03:02] <mdz> I mean, here's doko working on packaging at about 3am because it's so much damn fun
[03:02] <Keybuk> Mez: he's the CTO of Ubuntu
[03:02] <mdz> Mez: Canonical does more than just Ubuntu
[03:02] <Mez> CTO? never heard that one before
[03:02] <Mez> yeah memdz, but someone told me you were the BIG like - boss of canonical - the CEO or whatever
[03:03] <mdz> Keybuk: is on the skunk works side of things
[03:03] <Keybuk> no, that'd be Mark Shuttleworth
[03:03] <Keybuk> mdz may be able to walk up walls (backwards), but hasn't yet made it to space ;P
[03:03] <Mez> ahuman01, someone told me it was matt zimmerman (and then told me that was mdz)
[03:03] <jbailey> mdz: The same joy that leaves me hacking on initramfs on a Sunday evening.  =)
[03:03] <mdz> emphasis on 'yet'
[03:03] <Keybuk> mdz: you have plans?
[03:03] <Mez> s/ahuman01/ah
[03:04] <mdz> I have dreams
[03:04] <mdz> I expect that within my lifetime it will become possible to do it for much less than it cost Mark and other early adopters ;-)
[03:04] <Mez> mdz - I feel sorry for them (the dreams)
[03:05] <Mez> hmm
[03:05] <Mez> btw, does anyone wanna liek - fix findutils?
[03:05] <Mez> just needs merging from debian :d
[03:05] <Mez> like *
[03:05] <mdz> it's the changes from debian which have triggered the chaos
[03:05] <Mez> yeah, and now they;'ve been fixed
[03:05] <Mez> ;)
[03:06] <Mez> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=313079
[03:06] <mdz> at any rate, findutils in breezy is unmodified relative to Debian, so new versions in unstable will be brought in as a matter of course
[03:06] <mdz> it is experiencing a high rate of change at the moment
[03:06] <wasabi> i think I'm getting stupider as I'm getting older.
[03:06] <Mez> *shrugs* well findutils broke the buildd.. now findutisl is fixed :D
[03:06] <mdz> wasabi: you're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older
[03:06] <Mez> and it;s also causing nearly EVERYTNg in breezy to break (according to what people tell me)
[03:07] <wasabi> mdz, i just forgot 4 or 5 impotant things as you said that
[03:07] <mdz> wasabi: 7 +/- 2
[03:07] <Keybuk> mdz: ya know, it's funny about the world breaking
[03:07] <wasabi> So Java got promoted?
[03:08] <mdz> wasabi: yep
[03:08] <Keybuk> so, you know how dpkg 1.13 improves life a lot for the non-Linux people?
[03:08] <mdz> in theory oo.o2 is now buildable
[03:08] <Keybuk> ...and build-depends on a package only available in Linux? :p
[03:08] <mdz> Keybuk: ask me how much I care about the non-Linux people with the schedule we're on ;-)
[03:08] <mdz> O Linux, thou art the way and the truth and the light
[03:08] <Keybuk> 18 months until the next release? :p
[03:08] <Keybuk> oh, wait, wrong hat
[03:08] <tseng> mdz: dude, hurd
[03:09] <tseng> mdz: it will be really good someday!
[03:09] <mdz> tseng: and that is exactly the time when I will start to worry about it
[03:09] <tseng> heh, yep.
[03:09] <mdz> tseng: meanwhile, there are mono packages and deps which need review for promotion to main
[03:10] <jbailey> mdz: Or at least as much as you worry about *bsd? =)
[03:10] <mdz> beagle deps primarily
[03:10] <tseng> yep they need some fixing up
[03:10] <tseng> mono 1.1.8 will have what i hope is the last fix
[03:10] <mdz> evolution-sharp, gecko-sharp, gecko-sharp2, gmime2.1, gtk-sharp, gtk-sharp2-unstable, gtksourceview-sharp2, pnet, treecc, xsp
[03:10] <mdz> lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
[03:11] <tseng> pnet, treecc?
[03:11] <wasabi> I guess it wouldn't hurt for me to dedicate a week to go over EVERY java package and verify they are actually sane.
[03:11] <tseng> where did those come from :P
[03:11] <wasabi> I get the feeling there is a lot of cruft in there
[03:11] <mdz>  o pnet: pnet-interpreter
[03:11] <mdz>    [Reverse-Depends: mono-mcs] 
[03:11] <wasabi> like that xerces deal
[03:11] <mdz>  o treecc: treecc
[03:11] <mdz>    [Reverse-Build-Depends: pnet] 
[03:11] <tseng> ah thats an | deal
[03:11] <mdz> wasabi: the general idea is that we can do that as we need to move them into main
[03:12] <mdz> now that the entire ant dependency chain is in, that's a solid base
[03:12] <mdz> next week: eclipse!
[03:12] <wasabi> Buh.
[03:12] <wasabi> Don't remind me. Too much drama!
[03:12] <doko> wasabi: the primary goal for java in main is OOo2
[03:12] <mdz> surely we can get eclipse into main for breezy
[03:12] <wasabi> Yeah we can.
[03:12] <wasabi> What's the timeline though?
[03:12] <mdz> we'll add it to gnome-app-install and everything
[03:12] <doko> 3.1, not 3.0.1 ...
[03:12] <wasabi> Eclipse in multiverse right now is hacked to bits to be free.
[03:12] <mdz> say, feature freeze
[03:13] <ajmitch> I don't see pnet & its deps going into main soon
[03:13] <wasabi> doko, I really need to go over man-di's packages. I think they just went thru a bit of NIH
[03:14] <ajmitch> tseng: it might be time to drop the pnet deps, as I doubt it can even run beagle
[03:14] <doko> wasabi: fine, please don't upload before 4.0.1 is uploaded, which will badly break binary compatibility
[03:14] <tseng> ajmitch: doubt?
[03:14] <ajmitch> tseng: there might be a slim chance
[03:14] <tseng> ajmitch: i dont really need to thing about it :P
[03:14] <wasabi> We're not native yet anyhow.
[03:15] <wasabi> I have to put together an actual "plan" for doing that.
[03:15] <ajmitch> pnet 0.7.0 was just released, so there's still hope for it :)
[03:15] <wasabi> And I suck at those.
[03:15] <doko> wasabi: I know ;-)
[03:15] <wasabi> Know about the plan or me sucking? :)
[03:16] <doko> I don't know about the former ...
[03:16] <wasabi> haha
[03:16] <wasabi> I swear my attention span is nill.
[03:16] <wasabi> This new job is beating the crap out of me too.
[03:17] <doko> you have to make some time for the next Ubuntu meeting ...
[03:19] <Mez> hmm ... I think the problem with k3b is that the gcc compiler isn picking up an error that the previous version in hoary wasnt
[03:19] <wasabi> This sucks too. I get home tomorrow at 10pm from my "vacation".
[03:19] <wasabi> And go to work at 8 the next morning.
[03:20] <jdub> (do we actually care about supporting pnet?)
[03:20] <tseng> jdub: no, we pull it in from debian
[03:20] <tseng> jdub: where we pretend to support more than just mono
[03:21] <ajmitch> jdub: no, and we shouldn't care
[03:22] <tseng> btw where is herve
[03:22] <tseng> id like to have his permission to totally redo evo-sharp
[03:22] <tseng> it follows the "old" policies
[03:23] <Mez> riddell: ping
[03:23] <tseng> ar not herve, koke
[03:30] <the--dud> moo
[03:30] <Mez> any c++ programmers here?
[03:31] <jbailey> Mez: I am.
[03:31] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/ubuntu/k3berrors
[03:32] <Mez> any idea what those top couple of errors mean?
[03:32] <Mez> thats whats making the k3b build bomb out
[03:32] <jbailey> Mez: You're probably missing an include for a typedef or something.
[03:33] <Mez> the lines are
[03:33] <Mez>   K3bMixedDataDoc( K3bMixedDoc* parent );
[03:33] <Mez> and
[03:33] <jbailey> Mez: Take the compile line, add -E -dD and change the -o to point to /tmp/foo or something.
[03:33] <Mez> class K3bMixedAudioDoc : public K3bAudioDo
[03:33] <Mez> jbailey - I've no idea how to find where it has the compile line :d
[03:33] <jbailey> Mez: Then look in the file for the K3bMixedDoc declaration.
[03:33] <Mez> class K3bMixedDoc : public K3bDoc
[03:34] <jbailey> It'll be the g++ line right about the build failre.
[03:34] <Mez> It's there...
[03:34] <Mez> on line
[03:34] <Mez> 49
[03:34] <Mez> something possible to do with the order in which things are loaded in?
[03:34] <Mez> I knwo in ADa you havd to make anything that was referenced later on available before it was reference
[03:35] <jbailey> Right, you need to declare things in C++ before use.
[03:35] <jbailey> In C, too. =)
[03:35] <Mez> well it compiles ok under hoary :D
[03:35] <jbailey> The Hoary C++ compiler was a little less picky about some things.
[03:35] <Mez> but so, I'd have to change that file round so that the k3bmixeddoc was before it
[03:35] <Mez> okies, well that seems to be the k3b problem
[03:35] <Mez> lets see if I change it if it bombs
[03:36] <Mez> I'll let you know
[03:36] <jbailey> Cool. =)
[03:37] <Mez> but i guess it was caus ethe file tried to reference something later on in the file, not to start with eh?
[03:37] <Mez> schtoopid thing
[03:37] <Mez> now I bet you it bombs, but somewhere else :D
[03:38] <Mez> god it takes ages to build
[03:38] <Mez> ;p;
[03:38] <jbailey> BOOYAH!  initramfs boots with md software raid1
[03:39] <wasabi> Buh.
[03:39] <jbailey> wasabi: Is that a good noise or a bad noise?
[03:39] <wasabi> Bad.
[03:39] <wasabi> I'm going over man-di's eclipse 3.1 packages
[03:41] <wasabi> hell with this
[03:51] <jbailey> mdz: Around?
[03:52] <Mez> w00t
[03:52] <Mez> k3b got past the bit it bombed at afore
[03:52] <jbailey> Mez: Congrats. =)
[03:53] <Mez> :D
[03:55] <Mez> jbailey - you a dev?
[03:55] <jbailey> Mez: Yes.
[03:55] <Mez> wanna sponsor my apcakge itf it build properlY?
[03:56] <crimsun> we don't sponsor packages, really
[03:56] <crimsun> did you read the MOTU guidelines?
[03:56] <Mez> wanna sponsor my package if it builds properly?
[03:56] <Mez> is k3b in MOTU ?
[03:56] <Mez> universe *
[03:56] <crimsun> k3b is in main
[03:56] <Amaranth> C++ uploads are restricted right now
[03:56] <Amaranth> oh, it's in main...
[03:56] <crimsun> you're welcome to push your fixes as a unified diff
[03:56] <Mez> exactly, so i need a dev to sponsor the upload :D
[03:57] <Amaranth> doesn't work like that for main
[03:57] <crimsun> we do source-only uploads. You only provide the diff, dsc, changes.
[03:57] <Mez> yeah i know crimsun
[03:57] <Mez> but someone has to sponsor it to upload
[03:57] <Mez> cause i dont have upload access :P
[03:58] <Amaranth> you send a diff to someone (probably riddell in this case) and he can merge it
[03:58] <crimsun> yeah, jr or amu
[03:58] <Mez> ah fair enough - I'll send to riddell then seeing as he sponsored my last package i built for main
[04:01] <jdub> hrm, what's a little java thing that is working at the moment that is worth playing with? :)
[04:03] <eruin> they say us.archive.ubuntu.com isn't fixed after all in #ubuntu
[04:03] <Mez> crimsun: ping
[04:03] <luis_> ;)
[04:03] <jdub> free java dude
[04:03] <jdub> lots of free java
[04:03] <crimsun> Mez: pong
[04:04] <jdub> hrm, clearlooks went through the buildd poopchute quickly
[04:04] <Mez> us.archive = still b0rked :D
[04:04] <Amaranth> eruin: it's hit-or-miss
[04:04] <eruin> so it seems
[04:04] <Amaranth> jdub: 0.6.1 is out, btw
[04:04] <jdub> Amaranth: boh!
[04:04] <jdub> it says no such thing on the website!
[04:05] <jdub> and yet
[04:05] <jdub> there it is in the list
[04:05] <Amaranth> jdub: i get my info from the developer :)
[04:05] <Keybuk> jdub: you should know better than to trust strange websites
[04:05] <Amaranth> came out yesterday
[04:05] <jdub> Keybuk: haha
[04:06] <eruin> how is xorg today? :P
[04:07] <Mez> and k3b builds properly
[04:07] <Mez> except for: dpkg-genchanges: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
[04:13] <jbailey> Mez: Sounds like you're su'd into a chroot without doing su -
[04:13] <Mez> *shrugs*
[04:13] <Mez> i let pdebuild do it...
[04:13] <Mez> but
[04:13] <Mez> I've fixed k3b I think
[04:14] <jbailey> Nice, congrats.
[04:14] <Mez> and i made it into a patch file too :D
[04:15] <Mez> though i did it with the lastest version form the web, not from the repos (.23 and i used .24 (uupdatE)) so am gonna rebuild and see if it works in .23
[04:16] <Nafallo> zul: rt2500 has a fix for creating adhoc networks in cvs, kthxbye ;-)
[04:16] <Nafallo> zul: or rather create adhoc networks and you can find the fix in cvs. :-)
[04:18] <mdz> jbailey: yeah
[04:18] <mdz> jbailey: on the phone, though
[04:27] <Keybuk> meh
[04:28] <Keybuk> try:  yield ""  finally: ...
[04:28] <Keybuk> is illegal in Python
[04:34] <robitaille> jdub, your answer and mine to that e-mail on the ubuntu-doc list about a weekly newsletter are so similar...it's scary. But you beat me to it by 2 minutes :)
[04:41] <mike_douglas> I'm getting md5sum mismatches on the update server (both ca and us mirrors), would this be on my end or yours?
[04:42] <Mez> mike - there ar eproblems
[04:42] <Mez> use archive.ubuntu.com
[04:42] <Mez> and that'll work
[04:43] <mike_douglas> thanks
[04:56] <bob2> podcasting continues to be the most annoying word in world atm
[04:58] <toresbe> podcasting?
[04:59] <seth_k> bob2, no no no. The continual use of the made-up word "Ajax" in relation to 1.22 x 10^7 different new web software packages is MUCH more annoying
[04:59] <bob2> ooooh
[04:59] <bob2> good point
[05:00] <seth_k> :D
[05:00] <daniels> seth_k: now imagine how this must feel for adam jackson, who IRCs as ajax, and has done so since the dawn of time (and it's his username everywhere, etc)
[05:00] <daniels> seth_k: he also gets random abuse from soccer fans who dislike the dutch team of the same name
[05:00] <seth_k> lol
[05:03] <bob2> wow, there's a soccer team named after cleaning powder?
[05:04] <bob2> daniels: firegl for 9600xt is stupid, right?
[05:04] <robitaille> I always thought the soccer team was named in honour of Ajax, a town near Toronto :)
[05:05] <daniels> bob2: nope, it's not accelerated for 3D otherwise
[05:05] <fabbione> morning
[05:05] <bob2> ah
[05:05] <daniels> bob2: eye-axe, rather than age-axe
[05:05] <bob2> oh
[05:05] <bob2> crazy dutch!
[05:09] <jbailey> mdz: All good.  Just an initramfs status bit, emailed you.
[05:09] <jdub> robitaille: :-)
[05:54] <mdz> jdub: is he dutch?
[06:05] <fabbione> mdz: you are not supposed to be working on sunday :P
[06:05] <mdz> fabbione: it's monday for you :-P
[06:05] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. but not for you ;)
[06:05] <mdz> yet
[06:07] <daniels> 12:01am doesn't count
[06:08] <mdz> the day doesn't count until you sleep
[06:09] <mdz> no sleep 'til brooklyn
[06:10] <Keybuk> I'm not entirely sure what day it is anyway
[06:10] <mdz> days are irrelevant
[06:10] <mdz> there is sleep, and there is wake
[06:10] <mdz> and there is a release
[06:11] <daniels> mdz: where 'brooklyn' in this case is actually 'breezy', or?
[06:11] <mdz> daniels: <screaming power-chord guitar riff>
[06:11] <daniels> mdz: it's so horribly 80s, yet I can't tear myself away
[06:11] <daniels> mdz: didn't they have that awful drumkit in there, too?
[06:12] <mdz> daniels: a drum machine, I expect
[06:13] <daniels> mdz: well, yeah
[06:13] <daniels> but that same dodgy snare in every other 80s song
[06:15] <daniels> mdz: [DENIED] 
[06:15] <daniels> sorry
[06:15] <daniels> [DENIED] 
[06:16] <pepsi> hey, how can i help?
[06:17] <mdz> pepsi: I don't think much can be done about the beastie boys' drum machine and its dodgy snare
[06:17] <mdz> but regarding Ubuntu, see  http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
[06:17] <pepsi> i dont like any of those :)
[06:17] <Keybuk> or has been attending "Hollywood Parties" again
[06:17] <mdz> I don't do sugar
[06:18] <daniels> Keybuk: 'hollywood sugar'
[06:18] <daniels> bob2: and you can be the bboy
[06:18] <daniels> spinning on yoru hair
[06:19] <Keybuk> nah, bob2 will be behind bars shouting "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU BART!"
[06:19] <daniels> he doesn't shout it, he just creepily utters it in a gravelly voice
[06:21] <mdz> bart?
[06:21] <mdz> like the san francisco light rail?
[06:22] <fabbione> like simpson
[06:22] <mdz> ah, with bob2 as sideshow
[06:22] <Keybuk> yes, Sideshow Bob
[06:22] <bob2> I'll get you, Scott Ja...yadayaday
[06:22] <Keybuk> bob2: eat my distro, man
[06:23] <mdz> I'll get you for this, Midler.......
[06:23] <bob2> Keybuk: you're arch-team, foo'
[06:24] <mdz> is there an arch-team gang sign?
[06:24] <mdz> if so, please submit a photograph
[06:24] <Keybuk> what's a "gang sign" ?
[06:24] <mdz> Keybuk: ....
[06:24] <mdz> Keybuk: http://women.alioth.debian.org/profiles/pictures/erinn.jpg
[06:24] <mdz> like that
[06:25] <Keybuk> ah, the "respect" thing
[06:25] <Keybuk> sure
[06:25] <mdz> in that particular photo, it is representative of "DW"
[06:25] <Keybuk> https://wiki.canonical.com/ArchCheatSheet?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=rosetta-arch.png
[06:25] <mdz> but the generalized concept applies to all sorts of things
[06:25] <Keybuk> it looks like that
[06:26] <Keybuk> takes 500 people, some with dislocated vertebrae, to pull it off though
[06:26] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, I want a photo of you representing that diagram with your hands
[06:26] <Keybuk> mdz: that I can do
[06:26] <Keybuk> it involves one hand, and one finger :p
[06:26] <mdz> pix plz
[06:27] <Keybuk> meh, the only camera I have nearby is my phone
[06:27] <mdz> I'll take what I ca nget
[06:28] <bob2> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rweir/arch.jpg
[06:28] <Keybuk> yeah, but I bet your phone doesn't accept photo messages? :p
[06:29] <mdz> Keybuk: I can receive MMS
[06:29] <mdz> it probably costs me about $10 US, but it works
[06:29] <mdz> bob2: that's either an exaggerated latin letter 'H', or a characterization of an arch
[06:30] <Keybuk> (and mutters something about breezy's lack of bluetooth support)
[06:30] <bob2> mdz: it's an arch with a crossbar
[06:30] <bob2> mdz: it symbolizes our unity through suffering
[06:30] <Keybuk> but phone being USB storage device, that's sex
[06:32] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/dsc00009.jpg
[06:32] <Keybuk> that's a far more appropriate "gang sign" for arch
[06:32] <daniels> Keybuk: bluetooth with obex works fine for me
[06:32] <bob2> woah, you're BALD
[06:32] <mdz> Keybuk: catalogued in the corporate photo portfolio
[06:33] <mdz> Keybuk: by the way, wHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR HAIR
[06:33] <daniels> woah
[06:33] <daniels> haha
[06:33] <Keybuk> I got bored of it
[06:33] <bob2> haha
[06:33] <fabbione> Keybuk: omg!
[06:33] <luis_> whoah
[06:33] <bob2> so you reimplemented it from scratch
[06:33] <fabbione> you look like a nazi!
[06:33] <bob2> in python!
[06:33] <luis_> Keybuk == scott
[06:33] <daniels> ... is that a dressing gown?
[06:33] <Keybuk> luis_: yes :p
[06:33] <bob2> daniels: I'm glad of it, personally
[06:34] <daniels> Keybuk: i think that picture violates the code of conduct :P
[06:34] <Keybuk> mdz: anyway, you can talk; the first time I met you, you had lots of hair
[06:34] <Keybuk> and it to mysteriously vanished under suspicious circumstances
[06:35] <mdz> most of you folks met me during a rare hair-having period of my life
[06:35] <daniels> i've done the reverse; my hair has blossomed since I joined Canonical
[06:35] <mdz> I have returned to a reasonable level of hairness since
[06:35] <bob2> mine too
[06:35] <bob2> Keybuk: linkage of mdz with hair, kthx
[06:35] <Keybuk> The Ubuntu Technical Bald
[06:35] <mdz> next thing, you'll be saying that you scaled walls because of me
[06:39] <mdz> Keybuk: that's a cameraphone photo?  not bad in terms of resolution
[06:39] <fabbione> mdz: we all remember the foot prints on Oxford's walls
[06:39] <mdz> 1632x1224
[06:39] <Keybuk> yeah, has a two mega-pixel camera in it
[06:40] <Keybuk> and a flash/light that doubles as a weapon in case of emergencies, instantly blinding anyone you shine it at
[06:40] <Keybuk> which is quite fun
[06:40] <mdz> fabbione: the evidence has been summarily erased
[06:40] <daniels> me with possibly slightly more hair than I do now: http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/tmp/dsc00549.jpg
[06:40] <daniels> me slightly pre-oxford: http://people.freedesktop.org/~daniels/tmp/dsc00552.jpg
[06:40] <daniels> it's now returned to the former, maybe a tiny bit longer, actually
[06:41] <Keybuk> I tend to bounce between ultra-short and long
[06:42] <Keybuk> in other words, I get pissed off with it, shave it all off, and forget about it for a year, after which I do it again :p
[06:43] <mdz> daniels: 90 degrees out of phase
[06:44] <daniels> mdz: yeah, it's on a remote host, can't be arsed scp'ing it back, rotating it, and scp'ing it over again
[06:44] <daniels> mdz: (it was on there from an ancient backup of my old machine)
[06:44] <Keybuk> open it in gnome image viewer, rotate, and save
[06:44] <Keybuk> it should "just work"
[06:44] <daniels> current vintage daniels making the ubuntu gang sign: http://amnesiac.heapspace.net/~daniels/gang-sign.jpg
[06:45] <Keybuk> that's an impressive book-shelf
[06:45] <mdz> nice natural lighting
[06:45] <daniels> Keybuk: yeah, all dad's books
[06:46] <daniels> Keybuk: the book with the three blue stripes to the left of my shoulder is mastering dBase IV programming
[06:46] <Keybuk> yes, I actually have that one I think
[06:46] <daniels> mdz: normal light coming in from the window, the rest of the house is dark as hell
[06:46] <daniels> terrible design for lighting
[06:46] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/2005/redecoration/off02_wall-done.jpg <-- my bookshelf is considerably less impressive :(
[06:47] <mdz> http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/temp/DSC00002.JPG <-- mdz freshly shorn
[06:47] <fabbione> s/has/as
[06:47] <daniels> Keybuk: that's eight shelves behind me; we have 35
[06:48] <Lathiat> daniels: damn
[06:48] <Lathiat> thats alot of boooks
[06:48] <Keybuk> mdz: that is a fantastic "rabbit in the headlights" look
[06:48] <daniels> mdz: dude, we're all comparing pictures from the last 12 months, keep up :P
[06:48] <bob2> Keybuk: wow, nice house
[06:49] <mdz> daniels: are you trying to say that I look older?
[06:49] <daniels> mdz: you look about 16 in that picture
[06:49] <mdz> I was about 21 I think
[06:49] <Keybuk> daniels: I was going to go with 14
[06:50] <mdz> Keybuk: what is the actual colour of the lighting in that photo?
[06:50] <mdz> the overall composition is very reddish
[06:50] <Keybuk> bob2: yah, I like it :p
[06:50] <Keybuk> mdz: ordinary halogen
[06:50] <Keybuk> the walls are pink :p
[06:51] <mdz> "ordinary eye-destroying halogen"
[06:51] <daniels> Keybuk: oh, and that's sol8 beind my other shoulder :)
[06:51] <mdz> not one, but TWO ubuntu CD display cases
[06:51] <daniels> mmm, it's about a bajillion times cleaner than my house
[06:51] <bob2> I like the artful art54g antenna arrangement
[06:52] <Keybuk> mdz: I gave away a _lot_ of Ubuntu CDs
[06:53] <mdz> and I
[07:00] <Keybuk> meh, 'spose I better try and head to the gym
[07:01] <mdz> Keybuk: 24-hour gym?
[07:01] <Keybuk> no, is 6am here
[07:01] <Keybuk> they open now
[07:01] <mdz> 6am is essentially the middle of the night
[07:01] <Keybuk> I wish it was 24 hours though
[07:01] <Keybuk> would fit my sleep pattern better
[07:01] <mdz> you have a sleep pattern?
[07:01] <mpt__> sleep patterns ... I remember those
[07:02] <Keybuk> sure, impressionism is still art ;)
[07:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: dpkg 1.13.7 make the kernel FTBFS on i386 :)
[07:03] <Keybuk> fabbione: oh?
[07:03] <mdz> Keybuk: DESTROYER OF WORLDS
[07:03] <Keybuk> is this because of an unexpected reason?
[07:04] <Keybuk> or is this just the symlink doko hasn't put in gcc yet?
[07:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: let me try to explain, but i have no idea what to look for exactly
[07:04] <fabbione>  /usr/src/wartydevel/kernel/breezy/linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.11.94/scripts/gcc-version.sh: line 11: i486-linux-gnu-gcc: command not found
[07:04] <mdz> the best explanation would be a URL for a build log
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: it fails like after 10 lines...
[07:04] <Keybuk> yeah, doko knew that one would happen
[07:04] <fabbione> there is not even a need for a build log
[07:04] <Keybuk> breaks zlib too
[07:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: so i need to wait for a new set of gcc???
[07:04] <mdz> zlib is unimportant; hardly any packages use that thing
[07:05] <Keybuk> ln -s /usr/bin/i486-linux-gcc /usr/bin/i486-linux-gnu-gcc
[07:05] <Keybuk> or whatever it wanted
[07:05] <fabbione> Keybuk: i somehow... hmmm can NOT do that inside the buildd!
[07:07] <Keybuk> mdz: Are you the Gatekeeper?
[07:07] <mdz> Keybuk: are you the keymaster?
[07:08] <Keybuk> Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, the Traveler has come!
[07:08] <mdz> fabbione: ITYM "XUL"
[07:08] <Keybuk> Choose and perish!
[07:09] <Keybuk> "iz xul bug"
[07:09] <mdz> Everything was fine with our system until the power grid was shut off by dickless here. 
[07:09] <Keybuk> Is that true?
[07:10] <mdz> Yes it's true
[07:10] <Keybuk> tsk @ mdz failing to complete the quote correctly
[07:10] <mdz> next UbuntuConf: Ghostbusters screening BOF
[07:11] <mdz> Keybuk: dude, I was correct and you were off
[07:11] <Keybuk> "Is that true?" ... "Yes, this man has no dick"
[07:11] <mdz> s/Is that true/Is this true?/
[07:11] <mdz> -> "yes it's true"
[07:11] <mdz> followed by, "this man has no dick"
[07:11] <Keybuk> you still missed the funny bit :p
[07:11] <mdz> you failed to provide the correct cue
[07:11] <Keybuk> meh
[07:11] <mdz> feel free to review the film to verify
[07:12] <Keybuk> you've studied it that closely?
[07:12] <mdz> trust me
[07:13] <Keybuk> it's still too early to watch movies
[07:13] <mdz> movies >> gym
[07:13] <Keybuk> my neighbours dislike my sound system
[07:13] <mdz> this problem can be trivially addressed by a decrease in volume
[07:13] <Keybuk> where's the fun in that?
[07:14] <Keybuk> movies are supposed to be watched LOUD
[07:14] <Keybuk> on a big tele
[07:14] <mdz> staying alive and within the terms of your lease?
[07:14] <Keybuk> heh, I own the freehold on my house :p  no lease here
[07:14] <mdz> the proper size of the screen is relative to the size of the room and the viewing distance/angle
[07:15] <mdz> a large screen is not necessary unless it is distant from the vewier
[07:15] <mdz> viewer
[07:15] <lifeless> mdz: not really, can be later. whatsup ?
[07:16] <mdz> lifeless: allow me to pause and review my notes in order to establish the basis for that ping
[07:17] <mdz> lifeless: oh yes, I wanted to pick your brain about squid
[07:17] <lifeless> sure
[07:17] <mdz> I have encountered a web server whose responses squid persisnently rejects
[07:18] <lifeless> if you dontmind latency, now is ok ;)
[07:18] <mdz> lifeless: are you behind a squid at the moment?
[07:20] <mdz> lifeless: e.g., http://www.la.com/home/interstitial?stxt=foo&button.x=0&button.y=0&sd=Results+for+%22foo%22
[07:20] <mdz> its response looks reasonably compliant to the naked eye
[07:20] <mdz> but squid rejects it
[08:04] <pitti> Morning
[08:06] <\sh> moins pitti
[08:09] <mvo> morning pitti 
[08:09] <pitti> Hi mvo, \sh
[08:11] <pitti> Mez: yay, the findutils bug was fixed in Debian (and upstream)
[08:11] <pitti> Riddell: ^
[08:13] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:13] <pitti> Hi fabbione 
[08:16] <\sh> hmmm...is anybody working on this project? https://alioth.debian.org/projects/webapps-common/
[08:47] <pitti> brb
[09:50] <jdub> mdz: who? (dutch)
[10:05] <\sh> jdub: is it possible to put the "ircnicks" under the realnames on the planet? just like the debian planet=
[10:05] <\sh> s/=/\?/
[10:07] <jordi> \sh: uh, isn't it the other way round?
[10:07] <\sh> jordi: sorry...on planet.gnome.org is it 
[10:07] <\sh> not on debian ;)
[10:16] <pitti_> Riddell: here?
[10:23] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync balsa (override ok)
[10:24] <jordi> hmm
[10:25] <mvo> jordi: hmm?
[10:25] <jordi> ECHAN, but my server was late exactly 1h.
[10:34] <pitti> carlos: it seems you have a hard time convincing the fdo people about the .desktop translation domain idea...
[10:36] <carlos> pitti, yeah :-(
[10:36] <daniels> is that the .mo vs .desktop thing on xdg?
[10:36] <carlos> pitti, I think we will need to do it and if it's fast enough, try again
[10:36] <daniels> with the binary .desktop format
[10:36] <carlos> dand, binary .desktop format?
[10:37] <carlos> s/dand/daniels/
[10:37] <daniels> carlos: there's some @sun.com guy on xdg@ talking about .mo, which is basically a binary format for .desktop aiui
[10:37] <pitti> brb
[10:38] <carlos> daniels, is that thread and I send some mails about it, yes, but it was an extension instead of a movement to .mo files by default as people seems to read...
[10:38] <daniels> carlos: right
[10:38] <daniels> i haven't been following it too closely
[10:39] <carlos> pitti, the main problem there is that only two persons answered the mails
[10:39] <carlos> pitti, so I think the other don't care
[10:39] <pitti> daniels: right, Mark is the tough one and the other one seems to agree with you
[10:40] <daniels> i don't really have anything to do with specs; waldo bastian would be the person to talk to
[10:40] <daniels> pitti: hm?
[10:40] <carlos> pitti, well, I don't know if they agree or not, they just don's say anything
[10:40] <pitti> daniels: erm, sorry, that was aimed at carlos
[10:40] <carlos> daniels, he's on the CC of some of the mails
[10:40] <daniels> carlos: aha
[10:40] <carlos> no answer yet
[10:41] <carlos> pitti, the good point is that SUN has already a patch that adds .mo support to GNOME
[10:41] <pitti> doko: btw, is the uploading of C++ packages still restricted?
[10:41] <carlos> pitti, so we could ask them for it
[10:41] <pitti> carlos: yay :-)
[10:41] <pitti> carlos: yeah, I read about it (I just read the whole thread)
[10:42] <carlos> ok
[10:43] <seb128> carlos: I don't think we should piss upstream though
[10:44] <seb128> carlos: ie: are we sure that .mo are not slowing the panel a lot?
[10:44] <pitti> elmo: is there a reason why postgresql-8.0_8.0.3-5 is not autosynced from Debian?
[10:45] <carlos> seb128, sun says it's not a big issue
[10:45] <carlos> seb128, and that's not pissing upstream
[10:46] <seb128> carlos: a sun guy say that and he has no clue on how to mesure performances apparently
[10:46] <carlos> seb128, we have two options, forget .desktop support or fix them in a way they can be updated with language packs
[10:46] <seb128> carlos: when upstream get "your piece of software is slow" bugs that pisses upstream
[10:46] <pitti> ... or use our original idea of a parallel hierarchy
[10:46] <carlos> seb128, dude, we are not talking about integrate a slow feature
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: no, we won't do desktop .mo without any sort of caching
[10:47] <carlos> seb128, we need to experiment and go for the best solution
[10:47] <carlos> seb128, and I'm sure a cached version will be needed
[10:47] <seb128> carlos: as explained on the list, the .mo way means a lot of i/o which is slooooow
[10:47] <daniels> seb128: my panel's still sucking up 100% CPU and 2GB of RAM, how can it possibly be worse? :P
[10:48] <seb128> right, if we use a cache I've no objection
[10:48] <seb128> daniels: kick vuntz on #gnome-hackers :)
[10:48] <Treenaks> daniels: dpkg --purge setiathome-panel-icon ?
[10:48] <daniels> Treenaks: the first question anyone asked when I pasted that output was 'are you on amd64?'
[10:49] <daniels> so apparently GNOME doesn't work on amd64
[10:49] <daniels> i'm still waiting for seb to fix it
[10:49] <Treenaks> daniels: scary
[10:49] <seb128> troooool
[10:50] <carlos> seb128, first, we implement it, then we improve its performance, it's simple. If the performance is good enough, then upstream would be interested. If we forget that feature because upstream has a closed mind... I don't think it would be a good thing to improve our users experience. We need a prototype :-)
[10:50] <seb128> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10601, nobody spoke about amd64 for your panel bug :p
[10:51] <seb128> carlos: right, but you are not the one who need to work with upstream after breaking their software :p
[10:52] <carlos> seb128, well, I think we are not breaking their software but improving it :-)
[10:52] <carlos> seb128, that's why I don't see a problem there :-D
[10:53] <daniels> seb128: that was the first question that was asked on IRC
[10:53] <seb128> oh :)
[10:54] <daniels> seb128: (on #g-h)
[10:54] <seb128> carlos: markmc is upstream, if he says than we are going to slow the panel just be carreful on this
[10:55] <carlos> seb128, I know he knows what are he talking about
[10:56] <carlos> seb128, but we are not going to give our users a solution that breaks the panel that way
[10:56] <carlos> it's stupid from our side to do it
[10:56] <seb128> nice :)
[10:57] <carlos> seb128, that's why pitti and I talk about caching it or any other solution that improves the performance
[10:58] <pitti> yes, but that's an implementation detail
[10:58] <pitti> it does not need to become part of the spec
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: btw, gnome-menus translations should be there
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: gnome-panel's are missing, and now I know why
[11:00] <pitti> infinity: here?
[11:01] <{Seb}> hi all
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: why?
[11:01] <{Seb}> i'm doing a dist-upgrade to breezy
[11:01] <{Seb}> and it is removing totem, totem-xine and xine-ui
[11:01] <{Seb}> any idea?
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: the tarball neither contains a POT file nor stripped mo files from the debs
[11:02] <{Seb}> also, it is upgrading the kernel to 2.6.11
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: thus the script cannot find out the domain
[11:02] <{Seb}> does this have inotify?
[11:02] <{Seb}> 0.23 I mean
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: I have NFC why the tarballs don't contain stripped debs sometimes
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: "implementation detail" is an easy way to say "we don't care about performance, let's do the change and fix things then if we can"
[11:02] <seb128> k
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: no, it is the right way if it comes to discuss a spec
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: merely adding another option for doing translations won't hurt anybody
[11:03] <Treenaks> {Seb}: 2.6.12 has it, don't know about .11
[11:04] <Treenaks> {Seb}: and try apt-get install totem when it's done dist-upgrading
[11:04] <fabbione> {Seb}: don't use .11
[11:04] <fabbione> use .12
[11:04] <{Seb}> Treenaks: thanks
[11:04] <{Seb}> is there a meta-package i can install which will install all the neccessary packages?
[11:04] <Treenaks> {Seb}: ubuntu-desktop, but that might be broken atm
[11:05] <{Seb}> yeh, that's been removed at the moment
[11:07] <{Seb}> i guess i need linux-kernel-headers
[11:07] <{Seb}> what else?
[11:07] <{Seb}> sorry but I've been away from the Ubuntu scene for a while
[11:07] <{Seb}> for the past ~1 month, I have been using SUSE for the latest packages but Breezy is looking awesome
[11:08] <{Seb}> btw, is there going to be a graphical installer in breezy final?
[11:08] <{Seb}> is that the OEMInstaller?
[11:17] <pitti> mvo: Warning: tarball update-manager_0.37.1+svn20050404.2_translations.tar.gz does not contain a POT file
[11:17] <pitti> mvo: I thought you fixed that?
[11:19] <mvo> pitti: fixed locally, I haven't uploaded a new package in a while. should I do a upload with just the intltool-update change?
[11:19] <mvo> pitti: IIRC when we talked about it last week you said that it's ok if it comes with the next regular upload
[11:20] <pitti> mvo: ah, ok; if you do an upload in the next weeks anyway, that's fine
[11:20] <mvo> pitti: hopefully this week
[11:20] <pitti> mvo: ISTR that you actually uploaded, so nevermind
[11:20] <mvo> pitti: np :)
[11:31] <seb128> do we have any germinate-output//breezy/rdepends/ graph with universe?
[11:45] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[11:46] <pitti> hi Kamion 
[11:46] <pitti> Kamion: everything alright in your new house?
[11:50] <Kamion> morning folks
[11:50] <Kamion> pitti: haven't got ADSL sorted out yet - that's coming tomorrow morning
[11:50] <Kamion> otherwise not too bad
[11:50] <opi> morning Kamion, how's move?
[11:50] <Kamion> I'm working from Kinnison's place for today
[11:56] <pitti> Hey sivang 
[11:56] <sivang> pitti: Hey Martin! What's up? What's the breakage level of breezy currently? ;-)
[11:57] <pitti> sivang: it's actually not that bad any more
[11:58] <sivang> pitti: ah cool, I've just started to upgradd
[12:01] <Mez> hey pitti, yeah I saw :D
[12:01] <Mez> was it merged over to ubunut yet
[12:02] <Mez> ubuntu *
[12:02] <pitti> Mez: not yet
[12:02] <Mez> ah well
[12:02] <Mez> btw, I managed to fix k3b
[12:04] <sivang> hmm, are we supposed to lack some of the hoary files for breezy?
[12:04] <sivang> Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main libglib2.0-data 2.7.0a-0ubuntu1
[12:04] <sivang>   404 Not Found
[12:06] <pitti> libglib2.0-data | 2.7.0a-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[12:06] <pitti> hm
[12:08] <seb128> pitti: what about it?
[12:08] <daniels> heh, mythbusters has a thing about floating small children with balloons
[12:09] <daniels> i had flashbacks to the lca dinner
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: I mean, wrt. sivang's question, it should be there
[12:09] <seb128> pitti: oh, k
[12:10] <thom> daniels: i don't _think_ kamion counts as a small child ;-)
[12:10] <sivang> pitti: this happens to Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main libglib2.0-0 2.7.0a-0ubuntu1
[12:11] <sivang> pitti: as well, weird
[12:13] <Kamion> they may just not have hit that mirror yet
[12:13] <Kamion> looks that way
[12:13] <sivang> Kamion: I see, I'll finish the upgrade and try again afterwards then
[12:14] <Kamion> I think de.archive caught its upstream mirror half-way through updating, or something
[12:14] <seb128> Kamion: do we have a germinate-output//breezy/rdepends/ version with universe?
[12:14] <seb128> or is that easy to get?
[12:15] <Kamion> no, not yet
[12:16] <seb128> we could use one such graph for gtk+1.2 (we want to clean up old GNOME/GTK 1 stuff) .. is that easy to get?
[12:16] <Kamion> no, not yet
[12:16] <Kamion> :-)
[12:16] <Kamion> give me a bit
[12:16] <sivang> heh
[12:16] <sivang> seb128: you want that also for the lp integration stuff?
[12:17] <Kamion> seb128: germinate output for universe is kind of meaningless
[12:18] <Kamion> seb128: are you just talking about "what depends on gtk+1.2 in universe"?
[12:18] <Kamion> seb128: also, please port putty to gtk2 before killing gtk1, kthxbye
[12:18] <tseng> Kamion++
[12:18] <seb128> Kamion: that's rather "getting a graph of rdepends for gtk+1.2"
[12:18] <tseng> i havent found another way to ssh via an authenticated http proxy
[12:19] <Kamion> seb128: apt-cache rdepends. germinate isn't designed for that
[12:19] <tseng> or, another simple way
[12:19] <seb128> Kamion: rdepends doesn't do a graph but a list
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: however, germinate does an entirely different task
[12:20] <Mez> hmm does anyone here know the easiest way to create the "Release" file?
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: rdepends is just a side-effect of germinate - it's not a general-purpose reverse-depends grapher
[12:20] <Mez> in the main dist
[12:20] <Kamion> Mez: apt-ftparchive release
[12:20] <seb128> k, so what is appropriate to get a graph like http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/rdepends/gtk+1.2/libgtk1.2 ?
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: there's apt-cache dotty
[12:21] <Kamion> you might be able to use that
[12:21] <seb128> I'll have a look, thanks
[12:21] <Kamion> seb128: otherwise, you could create a custom set of seeds containing everything in the archive, and run germinate over it locally
[12:21] <seb128> hum, right
[12:21] <Mez> thx Kamion
[12:21] <Kamion> then you'd probably get suitable rdepends output, assuming it didn't crash :-)
[12:22] <seb128> anyway we don't plan to trash gtk1.2
[12:22] <Kamion> the germinate package in breezy should be fine for that
[12:22] <seb128> just to clean up stuff like "glade"
[12:22] <seb128> ie: all the old gnome/gtk1 apps which are deprecated
[12:24] <Kamion> elmo: any chance I could get /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/database/ synced to rookery (maybe without the contents/ subdirectory, since that's huge)?
[12:24] <Kamion> elmo: it would be useful for getting britney running on rookery
[12:27] <lifeless> mdz: what squid version ?
[12:27] <lifeless> and what symptoms do you see? (do you get some of the page/ broken graphics/ an error page ?)
[12:28] <lifeless> it works for me with my local squid here, which is a) squid 3.0, and b) somewhat out of date.
[12:29] <tepsipakki> hmm.. is this a bug: if I edit applications.menu and tell some menus not to include some specific .desktop-files, it then creates the "Other" menu and all those previously deleted launchers are in it..
[12:31] <doko> pitti, Kamion: libdb4.2++-dev: Depends: libdb4.2-dev (= 4.2.52-18ubuntu5) but it is not going to be installed
[12:31] <doko> I fail to see why
[12:32] <lifeless> mdz: if you are running latest- squid 2.5, stable9 or 10, then you are seeing the results of our http-protocol attack defenses. There are a bunch of ways to compromise http behaviour that we are now checking. (things like adding headers, duplicate headers, headers with whitespace that makes their content look like other headers, etc.
[12:34] <mvo> doko_: seems to work here. maybe your mirror is outdated or something?
[12:35] <Kamion> looks fine on the archive to me
[12:35] <doko_> infinity: ^^^ is it the buildd which is outdated? OOo2 build ...
[12:35] <Kamion> sivang reported apparent breakage with de.archive.u.c above
[12:41] <Kamion> lifeless: is base-config syncing properly? there are changes from Saturday not reflected in base-config--MAIN--0
[12:42] <Kamion> lifeless: (but merging is now SO MUCH EASIER, thank you :-))
[12:42] <lifeless> Kamion: looks like it is
[12:42] <lifeless> whats the latest rev in base-config ?
[12:43] <lifeless> (in svn)
[12:43] <Kamion> r1564 | bubulle | 2005-06-12 14:05:24 +0100 (Sun, 12 Jun 2005) | 1 line
[12:44] <lifeless> mmm
[12:44] <thom> tseng: um. sh: line 1: 11722 Trace/breakpoint trap   (core dumped) LANG=C /usr/bin/monodis --assemblyref Tomboy.exe 2>&1
[12:47] <lifeless> haha
[12:47] <lifeless> linux doesn't like have 32K dirs in /tmp
[12:48] <Kamion> tmpfs?
[12:48] <lifeless> uhm
[12:48] <lifeless> yes
[12:48] <lifeless> importd has been leaking tmp dirs
[12:48] <lifeless> and now gets 'Exception: [Errno 31]  Too many links: '/tmp/tmphcqufX''
[12:49] <doko_> can anybody else than elmo see, why a package is not accepted (got neither an accept nor a reject)? i.e. binutils
[12:49] <pitti> doko: which version?
[12:49] <doko> 2.16.1-1
[12:49] <pitti> 2005-06-13 02:40: binutils_2.16.1-1_source.changes
[12:49] <pitti> binutils_2.16.1-1_source.changes
[12:49] <pitti> REJECT
[12:49] <pitti> Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'.
[12:49] <pitti> Rejecting.
[12:49] <pitti> haha :-)
[12:50] <doko> ohh, fun
[12:51] <astharot> lol
[12:51] <doko> hmm, no reject mail ...
[12:51] <Kamion> shouldn't be -1 to Ubuntu anyway
[12:51] <Kamion> surely?
[12:52] <Kamion> doko: that's because you used doko@debian.org in changed-by:
[12:52] <Kamion> which isn't whitelisted
[12:52] <pitti> Kamion: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackRoadmap was never approved so far; since it affects the installer (in particular the kde/gnome/other split), are you fine with that?
[12:52] <doko> Kamion: it's the same upload as I'm proposing for unstable, sure, I can name it 1build1
[12:52] <lifeless> Kamion: syncified
[12:52] <lifeless> 4 new patches
[12:52] <Kamion> -1build1 *before* -1 gets uploaded to unstable seems unwise
[12:53] <doko> Kamion: ok. if that get's whitelisted, I'll get the mails twice?
[12:53] <doko> Kamion, so upload -0?
[12:53] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. can the Kubuntu installer install l-p-kde-lang and the Ubuntu installer installs l-p-gnome-lang?
[12:53] <doko> -0build1?
[12:53] <pitti> doko: why not 0ubuntu1? you can sync later
[12:53] <Kamion> doko: -0ubuntu1 and merge when -1 actually gets uploaded (you don't know that it will be identical unless you have a time machine ...)
[12:54] <Kamion> pitti: that's possible, yes
[01:06] <Kamion>      + Support for resolving dependencies (--resolve-deps)
[01:06] <Kamion> mdz: ^-- debootstrap 0.3.0 changelog
[01:06] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[01:08] <daniels> Kamion: \o/
[01:19] <daniels>  dbus (0.33-0ubuntu4) breezy; urgency=low
[01:19] <daniels>  .
[01:19] <daniels>    * Re-enable dbus, rename libdbus-cil to libdbus-1-cil.
[01:19] <daniels> ladies and gentlemen, give it up for our very own Tourguide Thom!
[01:20] <daniels> 'Bug#1794: dbus: not dbussy enough'
[01:20] <Kamion> mvo: can we get #225947 fixed in apt?
[01:20] <Kamion> debootstrap wants it
[01:20] <Treenaks> daniels: debussy?
[01:21] <mvo> Kamion: I can build you a package for this if you then test it :)
[01:21] <daniels> Treenaks: 'Re-enable dbus'
[01:21] <Kamion> mvo: sure
[01:22] <Kamion> mvo: (though it'll have to be once I get my machine farm back)
[01:23] <mvo> Kamion: I cleaned up aj's diff and merged it into a branch already, I just never got around to test it. how was moving? as bad as moving a house usually is? or worse :) ?
[01:23] <thom> daniels: oh, bite me
[01:23] <Kamion> mvo: about normal badness, pretty much
[01:24] <Kamion> I get to live in chaos for a while
[01:25] <{Seb}> hey all
[01:25] <{Seb}> i got breezy working!
[01:25] <{Seb}> it is awsome!
[01:25] <{Seb}> thanks guys :-)
[01:25] <{Seb}> the only thing is that Tomboy is broken so I'm gonna build it from source
[01:25] <Mez> lol
[01:25] <mvo> Kamion: I think after we moved last time (gf and me) we opened the last cardboard box with $stuff about 6 months after the moving 
[01:25] <Mez> havre fun
[01:26] <{Seb}> btw, can 
[01:26] <{Seb}> i need the mp3 and libdvdcss
[01:26] <{Seb}> should i use the Debian Marillat repos or the Backports Hoary Extras?
[01:26] <Mez> seb - neither
[01:26] <Mez> buold from source
[01:27] <{Seb}> why?
[01:27] <{Seb}> what's wrong with them?
[01:27] <Mez> their not built for breezy, and they probably wont work in breezy
[01:27] <Mez> marillat = not for ubuntu
[01:27] <Mez> hoary backports = not for breezy
[01:27] <{Seb}> true
[01:27] <Kamion> mvo: that won't surprise me :-)
[01:27] <Kamion> fabbione: what about it?
[01:28] <{Seb}> i like the new clearlooks v. nice
[01:28] <{Seb}> i am glad that acroread is the universe
[01:28] <fabbione> Kamion: if both ext2 and ext3 are modules, fs-common needs to have mbcache.ko... now.. this is true for ia64, but not for ppc... and why ppc has nls/nls_base in there????
[01:29] <Kamion> fabbione: it's only not true for powerpc because nobody's merged my patch from Debian linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6
[01:29] <fabbione> Kamion: and both ia64 and ppc are the only ones with both ext2/ext3 as modules
[01:29] <Kamion>       + Add mbcache to fs-common-modules, and make ext2-modules and
[01:29] <Kamion>         ext3-modules depend on that.
[01:29] <{Seb}> hey, it recongises my iPod Shuffle
[01:29] <{Seb}> cool!
[01:29] <Kamion> nls is in there because stuff from multiple udebs depends on it
[01:29] <fabbione> Kamion: that kind of missing depends would have a caused mbcache to be in both ext2 and ext3 = FTBFS
[01:29] <Kamion> ide-modules, iirc
[01:30] <Kamion> fabbione: wasn't needed before 2.6.11 or so, I know that much
[01:30] <Kamion> I assume mbcache got introduced as a module
[01:30] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, but we had this problem with 2.6.10 too on some arches
[01:30] <fabbione> oh well
[01:32] <sladen> {Seb}: these are question for #ubuntu   You can get dvdcss/mp3 from multiverse
[01:32] <{Seb}> thanks, sladen
[01:32] <{Seb}> just i guessed since it was breezy
[01:34] <fabbione> Kamion: this is royally weird.. the mbcache in .12 was landing in ext3 only....
[01:34] <fabbione> :P
[01:50] <mvo> Kamion: what kind of deb do you want for #225947? I assume ppc? 
[01:53] <Kamion> mvo: yup - or a source package is fine
[01:55] <sivang> bah, what about all those locale settings error on the upgrade...?
[01:55] <fabbione> Kamion: the nls_base in fs-common is (yet) another missing allignment in the kernel CONFIGs
[01:55] <fabbione> Kamion: at least i manage to understand wth was going on
[01:56] <fabbione> thanks dude!
[01:57] <fabbione> ehhe
[01:57] <toresbe> get drunk, it makes the kernel more comprehensible :P
[01:58] <fabbione> oh i am not fighting with the kernel itself
[01:58] <fabbione> i am trying to realling the installer kernel udebs with what's in the kernel images
[01:58] <fabbione> that's a real challenge :)
[01:59] <sivang> oh so many mono errors as well :-)
[02:06] <jdub> daniels: fair use doesn't magically disappear because someone explicitely grants you additional rights beyond copyright :-)
[02:07] <daniels> jdub: sure, but the entire concept of a document about free software being rabidly non-free is entertaining
[02:07] <daniels> jdub: does 'verbatim' mean that they intend that I can't just quote part of their speech? :)
[02:08] <azeem> daniels: you cannot change the GPL either, remember?
[02:09] <jdub> daniels: fair use doesn't magically disappear because someone explicitely grants you additional rights beyond copyright :-)
[02:10] <daniels> jdub: sure, but again -- if their intent was to disallow that, then they're crap
[02:11] <azeem> I think their intent was that you are free to post that whereever you want, but please don't add 'RMS is the satan' in the middle of it
[02:15] <daniels> sounds lame to me
[02:15] <daniels> the following is legal:
[02:15] <daniels> theFSF(can->bite.me);
[02:15] <daniels> the following is not legal:
[02:15] <daniels> The FSF can bite me.
[02:15] <daniels> ...
[02:16] <Treenaks> daniels: in perl both would work
[02:26] <erb> hello
[02:30] <doko> seb128: libedataserver1.2-dev is the only package in main b-d on db4.1-dev, causing the FTBFS for OOo2, infinity did find out the cuase. any reason to stick with 4.1?
[02:30] <drbyte> hi daniels 
[02:30] <seb128> doko: no, I've forgotten to drop the Debian change
[02:31] <seb128> doko: eds has a copy of libdb, Debian patches it to use the system version which is stupid
[02:31] <seb128> I'll fix that with next upload
[02:31] <doko> fine, infinity is offering an upload as well
[02:31] <seb128> go for it
[02:32] <doko> infinity: ^^^ ;-)
[02:34] <infinity> seb128 : Using the system version isn't stupid, just using the system 4.1 version is stupid. :)
[02:35] <infinity> seb128 : I'll just switch it to 4.2, and everything will be happy.
[02:35] <infinity> (Please, please, plase don't use bundled libraries unless absolutely necessary)
[02:35] <daniels> infinity: here I was about to re-enable expat, zlib, FreeType, fontconfig, et al, within xorg
[02:36] <infinity> daniels : YOu should be shot for even joking about it. :)
[02:36] <seb128> infinity: no no no
[02:36] <infinity> DO you have any idea how hard it is to track down every copy of zlib in the archive when an exploit comes out?
[02:37] <infinity> (Hard enough that we generally miss a few)
[02:37] <seb128> infinity: upstream use 4.1 for a reason
[02:37] <infinity> seb128 : What reason is that?
[02:37] <infinity> seb128 : Is it a *valid* reason?
[02:38] <seb128> they say than doing what you want to do is the best way to break the compatibility with other evolution installation/distro of your datas
[02:38] <infinity> Or is it the same reason apache bundled an old PCRE.. ("It's too much of a pain to try to upgrade our in-tree copy, so we never bothrered")
[02:38] <daniels> infinity: yeah, I know
[02:38] <daniels> infinity: this is why attempting to build with zlib will produce around 6000 lines of #warnings on a make World
[02:38] <infinity> seb128 : Ugh.  So, they'll never upgrade, because asking users to db_upgrade their data files is too much hassle?
[02:38] <daniels> infinity: double that if you also include FreeType
[02:39] <infinity> seb128 : But, whatever.  I'll give you discretion on this one.  If you want to re-enable the builtin copy, do so.  I'll just wait for someone to tell me it's been fixed and retry OO.org.
[02:40] <seb128> infinity: dunno the details, but I've spoken some days ago about that with ximian guys
[02:40] <infinity> (Well, you don't even have to ask users to db_upgrade, you just need to make sure you always db_open with the "upgrade on open" flag..)
[02:40] <infinity> It means people can't move BACK to old distros that use old libdb versions, but that could be seen as a feature. :)
[02:40] <kkanto34> hi
[02:41] <seb128> infinity: they are strongly again using an another version of libdb and I think we should not try to piss them on this for almost no win
[02:41] <infinity> seb128 : Anyhow, if you know what needs to be done to fix my buildd problem and to keep your upstream happy, do it. :)
[02:42] <seb128> k
[02:42] <tseng> thom: howd you manage that
[02:44] <thom> tseng: just building tomboy...
[02:46] <tseng> on?
[02:46] <pitti> Riddell: any luck with extracting pot files in KDE bulds?
[02:47] <pitti> Riddell: builds, even
[02:47] <thom> amd64
[02:47] <Riddell> pitti: yep, I'm packaging the xgettext-kde now, I'll get you to review it in a bit
[02:47] <pitti> cool
[02:47] <pitti> Riddell: I'm in the process of splitting the langpacks ATM
[02:48] <thom> tseng: also, when is libgtk-cil moving to main?
[02:51] <tseng> thom: im apperantly supposed to be filing some kind of detailed report about all the packages
[02:52] <tseng> thom: but rather im spending my free time actually fixing them atm
[02:52] <tseng> not sure whats more correct, but i cant be doing both in the same time frame
[02:52] <pitti> tseng: if you bug and remind me from time to time I'll do the report eventually :-)
[02:53] <tseng> pitti: heh you have better things to do as well
[02:53] <pitti> right, but somebody has to review the stuff
[02:53] <tseng> i can do it eventually
[02:53] <tseng> or do it on broken packages
[02:54] <tseng> which brings me back to, where is koke
[02:54] <pitti> oh, fixing first is definitively the right approach IMHO :-)
[02:54] <tseng> he "owns" a package i need to fix
[02:54] <tseng> if i dont see him soon i am just going to upload it
[02:54] <tseng> true, but i still find it a bit rude
[02:55] <tseng> ive not seen him in nearly a week now so im going to fix it soon
[02:55] <pitti> yes, depends on the work relationship you have with him
[02:55] <pitti> but merely fixing bugs should be appreciated (as long as you don't repackage it from scratch...)
[02:56] <tseng> thats sort of what its like
[02:56] <tseng> the package is done according to "old" mono policies
[02:56] <tseng> so its a good number of changes for that + bugfix
[02:57] <Lathiat> tseng: wheres the spec for the "new" policy
[02:57] <thom> tseng: oh, ok. i just uploaded dbus with mono enabled and of course it broke due to no libgtk-cil. oh well.
[02:57] <tseng> Lathiat: its a draft atm
[02:57] <Lathiat> tseng: ok, wheres the draft :)
[02:57] <tseng> Lathiat: wiki/CLIPolicy
[02:57] <Lathiat> thanks
[02:58] <tseng> nps
[02:58] <tseng> it will move to debian wiki at some point
[02:58] <tseng> thom: argh
[02:58] <tseng> thom: that one doesnt need any fixing, lets document it tonight and move it over
[02:58] <tseng> then kick dbus
[02:59] <thom> yes please :-)
[02:59] <tseng> its the beagle-related and dbus-dependants that still need the most love
[02:59] <mvo> is 'search' broken in malone? 
[03:40] <mvo> Kamion: apt with arch-override support is available at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/apt/bts225947/. please give it a try and tell me if it works
[03:40] <mvo> (source only)
[03:42] <Riddell> pitti: could you take a look at http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/kubuntu/gettext-kde/
[03:46] <pitti> Riddell: the package looks fine so far, but I didn't test it
[03:46] <pitti> Riddell: if it works, i. e. the tools produce a valid POT file from a source package, that's fine
[03:51] <Riddell> pitti: do the .pot files need to be included in a binary package?
[03:51] <pitti> Riddell: no, they don't even need to be included in the source package
[03:51] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. it is okay to rm it in debian/rules clean
[03:51] <pitti> Riddell: it must just be built so that pkgstriptranslations can pick it up
[03:52] <pitti> Riddell: however, leaving it in the package diff.gz does not really hurt either, so do whatever is easier
[03:53] <Riddell> pitti: ok, I'll upload gettext-kde and if NEW approves of it I'll modify and upload all the KDE packages
[03:53] <pitti> Riddell: you really need to touch all packages?
[03:53] <pitti> Riddell: isn't there anything like cdbs kde.mk which is a common piece of code where this could be hooked into?
[03:53] <Riddell> pitti: yes, the debian/rules file or debian/cdbs/debian-qt-kde.mk file needs to be changed
[03:53] <pitti> Riddell: btw, it must go into main before you can depend on it
[03:54] <Riddell> pitti: plus the packages need to depend on gettext-kde as you say
[03:54] <pitti> Riddell: we already modified cdbs for gnome.mk, so modifying kde.mk seems to be the right thing and easier for you
[03:54] <Riddell> pitti: cdbs's kde.mk is out of date so most of the KDE packages include their own debian/cdbs/kde.mk and debian-qt-kde.mk
[03:54] <jbailey> Riddell: I have no moral objection to cdbs being tweaked for Ubuntu's needs in Ubuntu only.
[03:54] <pitti> Riddell: hmm, the dependency really hurts, that's right
[03:54] <Riddell> but I can modify cdbs for the packages that use that too
[03:55] <pitti> Riddell: argh, they copy cdbs stuff? how evil...
[03:55] <Riddell> jbailey: of course then cdbs would have to depend on gettext-kde
[03:55] <jbailey> Riddell: If you dno't want to upload cdbs for the changes you need, we can just move kde.mk out of the package so you can maintain it somewhere else...
[03:55] <pitti> Riddell: about how many packages are we are talking btw?
[03:55] <\sh> hmm..talking about tweaking cdbs..can we tweak lintian as well?
[03:55] <Riddell> \sh: lintian just needs sycned with debian I think
[03:55] <jbailey> \sh: I think it already is at least a little bit.
[03:56] <Riddell> pitti: a dozen or so KDE modules
[03:56] <\sh> jbailey: also for "non fdo desktop files for kde?" ,-)
[03:56] <Riddell> \sh: that's been removed in debian version I'm sure so just sync with debian
[03:56] <jbailey> Riddell: We'll likely also tweak the ant.mk stuff in some Ubuntu-specific ways.
[03:58] <Riddell> jbailey: how would you feel about cdbs depending on gettext-kde?
[03:58] <pitti> that doesn't really look right
[03:59] <Riddell> pitti: why?
[03:59] <pitti> Riddell: well, so far cdbs does not even depend on debhelper...
[03:59] <jbailey> Riddell: I'd prefer not, since every cdbs package doesn't need it.
[03:59] <jbailey> Riddell: I'd rather see a 'kde-build' package created which had all of the build-deps in it.
[03:59] <pitti> Riddell: maybe we can convince infinity to just install it in the dchroots
[03:59] <pitti> Riddell: or jbailey's proposal
[04:00] <jbailey> But that's sort of the idea behind the control file generation and the build-depends handling.
[04:00] <pitti> Riddell: in any way kde.mk should check for the existence of gettext-kde before calling it
[04:00] <jbailey> cdbs2 will handle that in a much better way (although agreed to by the Debian DAM)
[04:00] <Riddell> jbailey: DAM?
[04:00] <jbailey> pitti: It could be a hard chjeck and a fail with a sane error message.
[04:00] <jbailey> err.. ftp master.
[04:00] <jbailey> I still tend to just think of Jrg as the DAM rather than The New Elmo(tm)
[04:01] <pitti> jbailey: oh, why fail? if I build a pacakge locally, I don't need a pot
[04:01] <jbailey> pitti: Yeah, true.  But you don't want it to wind up running through the buildd setup that way.  Maybe a DEB_BUILD_OPTION="nopot" check?
[04:01] <Kamion> he's only an ftp assistant rather than master, but yeah
[04:02] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, didn't know.
[04:06] <pitti> Kamion: speaking of ftp masters, I still need to tell elmo that we will add another 400 langpack related packages when we split off gnome and kde translations...
[04:08] <Kamion> good luck
[04:08] <pitti> he doesn't seem to be here today, but when he returns, I'll better get my asbesto pants :-)
[04:22] <bob2> goddamn
[04:23] <bob2> someone patch firefox to get rid of the "send link" option, which is right above the "copy link" item
[04:24] <Treenaks> bob2: easy.. 1-line greasemonkey script :)
[04:36] <Kamion> mvo: what's that supposed to do for Architecture: all packages?
[04:37] <Kamion> mvo: at the moment extraoverrides work for Architecture: <architecture-of-override>, but if you say "foo/i386 Task i386-test" then it doesn't get applied to foo_*_all.deb
[04:38] <sivang> tseng: tomboy is broken?
[04:40] <mvo> Kamion: what real packages would make a good test-case?
[04:40] <Kamion> mvo: I used apt-doc
[04:40] <Kamion> I'll /msg you apt.conf and override if you like
[04:41] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, please do that
[05:15] <doko> Mithrandir: ia32-libs-dev ping (libGL.so.1 symlink)
[05:44] <ddaa> Does anybody understand when cvs will print "file foo.c is no longer relevent" error messages?
[05:44] <ddaa> lamont?
[05:45] <daniels> iirc when it's been removed from the upstream repository, but you still have it on your system
[05:45] <lamont__> ddaa: not I
[05:46] <bob2> ddaa: lamont__ just knows how to provoke such errors using rcs, not cvs ;p
[05:46] <ddaa> daniels: removed in which way? Removed as in "it's no longer at all in the repository, forget about it",  or removed as in "it's deleted, but you can still retrieve the file if you juggle three balls while standing on your hands"?
[05:46] <daniels> ddaa: as in 'cvs rm'.  the file isn't present in the current repository state, but you can get it back by asking for it if you wan tit.
[05:47] <lamont__> bob2: I only did what I did because, well, it seemed like a reasonable idea, at the time.
[05:47] <lamont__> (once you have tac-nukes, everything begins to look like a small city)
[05:47] <bob2> the road to cscvs hell is paved with ...
[05:47] <ddaa> daniels: maybe I should give more context
[05:47] <lamont__> bob2: I didn't say it _WAS_ a good idea. :-)
[05:48] <bob2> hehe :)
[05:49] <ddaa> I ask this question because the CVS protocol documentation says that the "Deleted" response is what is sent by the server in the cases where the cvs client prints "file foo.c is no longer relevent".
[05:49] <ddaa> We get that response while doing one-file checkouts, where the CVS server supposedly has not information on the state of the local tree.
[05:50] <ddaa> daniels: do you have any clue how we can convince the cvs server to stop trying to be smart, and just give us the damn file?
[05:51] <infinity> ddaa : Ask for a specific revision of the file, if you really want it.  If it's deleted on HEAD, the server will yell at you for trying to retrieve it without context.
[05:51] <daniels> ddaa: find the revision immediately before the one it was deleted on, ask for that revision specifically
[05:51] <ddaa> infinity: that's what we are doing, asking for a specific revision of a specific file
[05:51] <daniels> ddaa: since you guys aren't working on branches, you just want to go back along HEAD
[05:52] <daniels> ddaa: cvs up -r1.2 foo.c
[05:52] <ddaa> daniels: thats' what we are doing
[05:52] <daniels> awesome
[05:52] <ddaa> we request specific revisions of the files, so we can get at past history.
[05:52] <daniels> to me, it sounds like you're going one revision too far
[05:52] <daniels> i.e. asking for a revision of the file in which it's already deleted
[05:52] <tseng> daniels: any chance you could try building libgdiplus on ubuntu?
[05:52] <ddaa> daniels: thanks, that's what I was fearing, I'll have to add some error reporting to figure it out.
[05:53] <infinity> (The most receny revision of the file will be the revision in the Attic, so if you're asking for that one, it will spew errors at you)
[05:53] <tseng> daniels: i couldnt get it to pick up freetype
[05:53] <infinity> s/receny/recent/
[05:53] <tseng> daniels: so it doesnt do a #def and fails later on ifdef || ifdef where neither font lib is set, basically
[05:57] <daniels> tseng: tomorrow, yo
[05:57] <tseng> daniels: sure.
[06:10] <svenl> mmm, why are the packages on us.archive.debian.org corrupt, or at least some of them ? 
[06:10] <svenl> Or am only me seeing that ? 
[06:10] <bob2> do you mean ubuntu.com?
[06:10] <bob2> then yes, it's screwed
[06:10] <svenl> yeah.
[06:10] <Kamion> ooh, d-i arch imports starting to appear
[06:10] <Amaranth> svenl: the mirror is fscked
[06:10] <svenl> Nice.
[06:11] <svenl> only us.archive.ubuntu.com ?
[06:11] <bob2> yes
[06:11] <svenl> BTW, only the packages without good md5sum are suspisious, or should i empty my whole cache before upgrading ?
[06:21] <mdz> Kamion: resolving deps in shell --> ph33r
[06:21] <mdz> lifeless: that was with the squid in breezy, 2.5.9-10
[06:22] <fabbione> morning mdz
[06:22] <mdz> morning
[06:23] <Amaranth> fedora core 4 is out?
[06:25] <Kamion> lifeless: kernel-wedge seems to be a couple of days behind, too; last svn revision was r28324 (although only one patch missing)
[06:25] <Kamion> lifeless: (am I being too impatient? I don't know what the sync frequency is supposed to be, although I got the impression from somewhere that it was a day)
[06:26] <ddaa> Kamion: kernel wedge is happy and syncing
[06:27] <ddaa> last sync this night 2:40 BST
[06:29] <Kamion> ddaa: strange that it's out of date then
[06:30] <ddaa> cannot say anything, svn updates seem to be lacking a bit of verbosity
[06:30] <ddaa> does not appear to have got any new revision since it was first imported
[06:31] <ddaa> on saturday
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: ./menu/pkgsel: line 5:  8688 Segmentation fault      DEBIAN_PRIORITY=high aptitude --without-recommends -y install "$PATTERN"
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: that's from a completely reproducible Hoary installation failure
[06:35] <Kamion> erk. surely an aptitude bug though ...
[06:35] <mdz> curious that it works for the rest of us, though, in that case
[06:35] <Kamion> although I suppose a bogus pattern could be triggering it or something
[06:35] <Kamion> unusual language?
[06:35] <mdz> (this is reported by a friend of mine)
[06:35] <mdz> US english, certainly
[06:36] <Kamion> well, an unusual language, but not in any sense that matters here ;-)
[06:36] <Kamion> I dunno, I'd have to see an strace or something
[06:39] <mdz> 0 packages upgraded, 617 newly installed, 0 to remove and 6 not upgraded.
[06:39] <mdz> 6 not upgraded?  eh?
[06:42] <mdz> Kamion: I've CCed you on my response to his mail, and attached base-config.log and installer/syslog
[06:42] <Kamion> mdz: ok, but I won't receive any mail until tomorrow; my home server is in limbo
[06:42] <mdz> eek
[06:44] <Kamion> it's still at the old house; I'll pick it up this evening and move it
[06:44] <Kamion> now that it is no longer a critical part of my former housemates' network infrastructure
[06:45] <mdz> heh
[07:35] <grirgz> hi
[07:48] <Kamion> mdz: aj's blog post about debootstrap 0.3.1 is way neater
[07:48] <Kamion> I'll do some cdimage hacking tomorrow to prepare for that
[07:48] <Kamion> and that's significantly ahead of cdebootstrap, which still requires a bunch of hardcoded stuff
[08:06] <mdz> seb128, jamesh: how have the LaunchpadIntegration goals turned out?
[08:07] <sivang> mdz: I've just started working on the list, which to IMHO would resemble the old one as far as the non menu / custom gui apps 
[08:07] <sivang> mdz: for the std users, I'll have detail
[08:16] <eazel7> hi ppl
[08:17] <eazel7> can I switch to breezy now?
[08:17] <eazel7> (I mean, is it still broken?)
[08:33] <doko> infinity, lamont, lamont__: please buildd OOo2, new evolution-data-server is in the archives
[08:54] <lsuactiafner> can anyone recommend me CASE tool to draw use-case diagrams ect?
[08:58] <ddaa> lsuactiafner: try dia
[09:04] <lamont__> doko: queued
[09:15] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[09:18] <chrissturm> lsuactiafner, poseidon uml is nice if you dont mind using java
[09:28] <fabbione> hey sabdf1 
[09:28] <sabdf1> howdy
[09:31] <fabbione> humpf... mono is not portable on sparc
[09:31] <tseng> hm its supposed to be afaik
[09:31] <fabbione> it is for sparc/solaris
[09:31] <fabbione> not for sparc/linux :/
[09:31] <zul> fabbione: port it then ;)
[09:32] <tseng> ah :(
[09:32] <fabbione> zul: ehhe
[09:32] <zul> people would love you...more so than now...*cough* bs *cough*
[09:33] <fabbione> zul: oh i get already enough love :)
[09:33] <zul> hehe
[09:33] <fabbione> specially when something fucks up and everybody knocks on my door :)
[09:33] <fabbione> it's still love.. i swear :P
[09:35] <mdz> fabbione: pong
[09:35] <fabbione> hey mdz.. i was just writing an email to you
[09:53] <mdz> mako: is there a log/summary of the backports meeting published somewhere?
[09:53] <mdke> mdz, kassetra is working on it I believe
[09:54] <tseng> mdke: she was working on the agenda also, it was blank up until meeting day.
[09:55] <mdke> tseng, don't shoot the messenger man
[09:55] <mdke> i don't know how she is getting on with it
[09:55] <tseng> just cautious pessimis :P
[09:55] <tseng> er, cant spell either.
[09:56] <mdke> pessimism eh
[09:56] <mdke> fairly healthy
[09:56] <mdke> but no fun!
[09:57] <mdke> she is online right now if you wanna ping her and ask
[10:04] <mako> mdz: kassetra was writing it up.. she was not finished last i checked.. although that have been nearly one week ago
[10:16] <bronson_> Anyone know why I can't get ddd to work on Hoary?  It's complaining about a missing elf/start.S.
[10:16] <bronson_> I have libc6-dbg installed.
[10:21] <bronson_> Where on earth would I find elf/start.S?  packages.ubuntu.com list nothing.
[10:22] <Mithrandir> bronson_: it sounds like a part of the gcc or binutils source
[10:22] <jbailey> sladen: ping?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> bronson_: hm, no, wrong.  Unsure, then.
[10:23] <Mithrandir> glibc source, perhaps?
[10:23] <jbailey> Mithrandir: hmm>
[10:23] <jbailey> ?
[10:24] <Mithrandir> jbailey: 22:21 < bronson_> Where on earth would I find elf/start.S?  packages.ubuntu.com list nothing.
[10:24] <jbailey> Yes, that sounds right.
[10:24] <jbailey> The elf loads is in glibc.
[10:24] <Mithrandir> it's discussed on libc-alpha at least.
[10:24] <jbailey> bronson_: For which arch?
[10:25] <bronson_> jbailey: i386
[10:26] <jbailey> You'll find it in sysdeps/i386/elf/start.S in the glibc sources.
[10:26] <sladen> jbailey: pong, though I'm in the middle of a router upgrade
[10:26] <bronson_> I'm just trying to use ddd to debug a simple C app.
[10:26] <bronson_> DDD complains of a missing elf/start.S and refuses to work.
[10:26] <jbailey> sladen: No rush.  I added the hookscripts to the initramfs last night, wanted to make sure they were adequate for bootsplash (splashy, usplash, etc...) needs.
[10:26] <jbailey> What's DD?
[10:26] <jbailey> D
[10:26] <bronson_> I think it's because Ubuntu's libc isn't stripped.
[10:26] <bronson_> data display debugger.  front-end for gdb.
[10:27] <bronson_> I just tried running gdb by hand and it's complaining of the same thing.
[10:27] <bronson_> This has got to be a pretty common problem, hasn't it...?
[10:31] <bronson_> Does anybody use GDB on Hoary?
[10:33] <sladen> jbailey: groovy.  I'll ping you in due course, what's the package called?
[10:34] <jbailey> sladen: initramfs-tools
[10:34] <jbailey> sladen: It's still evolving, but if there's anything I can do to make it so that you can use this as a testbed now, I'd love to hear it.
[10:38] <Mithrandir> bronson_: I've done that without any problems, yes.
[10:42] <bronson_> Mithrandir: you haven't seen any complaints about missing start.S?
[10:42] <bronson_> Weird.  I must be missing some package but I sure can't figure out which one.
[10:43] <Mithrandir> bronson_: nope, can't remember it, at least.
[10:45] <bronson_> Mithrandir: what libc do you have installed?  libc6-i686?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> bronson_: yes, apparently.  And libc6-dev, but not -dbg.
[10:47] <bronson_> Arg.  Well, short of downloading a ton of source packages and scanning them by hand, I think I'm stuck.
[10:47] <bronson_> Bogus.
[10:48] <bronson_> Mithrandir: libc6-686 version 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu13?
[10:48] <Mithrandir> have you tried just setting a breakpoint and doing run?
[10:48] <bronson_> yep.
[10:49] <Mithrandir> bronson_: this box is running breezy, so I'm not sure what version I used back then
[10:49] <bronson_> ah.  I look forward to upgrading.  I tried Breezy last week and paid the price.
[10:50] <bronson_> Problem with setting a breakpoint is that a routine in start.S is at the top of the stack so every time gdb does anything, it complains that it can't find the source.
[10:50] <bronson_> really irritating.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> hm, weird.
[10:51] <bronson_> I give up.  If printf logging won't do it, I'll just use gdb on a Fedora box for now.
[11:20] <lifeless> mdz: ok, then thats probably the sanity checks. check squid.log, there should be a reason logged, also 2.5.10 is out now I think, and relaxes some of the constraints, (ie. double content-length headers are allowed IFF they have the same value)
[11:20] <lifeless> ddaa: found a bug in svn, it doesn't call 'update' on syncs ;)
[11:21] <ddaa> that might explain some things :)
[11:21] <ddaa> lifeless: https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/hoover/status/gsl-main/events/40/log
[11:21] <lifeless> yes
[11:21] <lifeless> found it yesterday nightr
[11:21] <lifeless> just before bed
[11:21] <ddaa> I'm zeroing on the remaining "missing =" problem
[11:21] <ddaa> it's turning out scary
[11:22] <ddaa> also see https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/hoover/status/ijs-main/events/15/log
[11:22] <ddaa> hu... ECHAN
[11:28] <mdz> lifeless: 2005/06/12 17:21:14| WARNING: found two conflicting content-length headers in
[11:28] <mdz> interesting
[11:28] <mdz> and it's correct; there are two conflicting content-length headers
[11:30] <lifeless> mdz: in which case there is no concievable way to determine which is correct.
[11:30] <lifeless> guess that a following response after the shorter just means that the next pipelined request may be hacked.
[11:31] <lifeless> guess the other, and the connection may hang while you wait for data that never arrives, or swallow up a real following response.
[11:31] <lifeless> and thus corrupting the third request in a row
[11:59] <mdz> hmm, discover1 is missing from breezy-live-amd64.iso
[11:59] <mdz> daniels: it's not obsolete yet, is it?