/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/06/24/#launchpad.txt

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=== lamont looks around for the rosetta pitti-translations importing folks...
lamontcarlos?  or who was it04:44
carloslamont, hi04:48
lamontcarlos: I'm looking at what the cleanest way to kludge around the translation tarball issue is...04:49
lamontgiven that it's perfectly possible for you to wind up fetching the bad tarball before the good tarball exists, does it make sense for me to just provide you with all the tarballs, and let you sort it out?04:50
=== lamont is thinking $pkg_$version_$arch_translations.tar.gz
carloswhich tarball issue?04:50
carlosI was not aware we had an issue...04:50
carlosor at least I don't remember it...04:51
lamont64-bit build apparently don't believe in gettext for whatever reason, and therefore you get tarballs with no .mo files or some such04:51
carloslamont, oh, well, that's not a big issue04:52
carloslamont, we are not importing breezy yet04:53
carlosso either remove broken tarballs or as you said, rosetta will take care of it04:53
carloswhen the new version fixed is imported04:53
lamontI think the concern was that some breezy packages might not be rebuilt before release, after a gettext-check fix is in place04:56
carloslamont, if the problem is just with .mo files05:03
carlosdon't worry05:03
carloswe can fix it by hand05:04
carlosunless it's really easy to fix it in your side05:04
lamontpitti finds the current 'fix by hand' solution to be labor intensive05:11
carloslamont, not really as we reuse the information we already have in for hoary05:11
carlos s/in for/for/05:12
carlosso we need to fix it anyway 05:12
lamontah, mo info?  these may be bad hoary files that he's working on...05:12
carloslamont, yeah, he did a bunch of fixes with missing .pot files05:12
lamontthat's probably what brought the subject up and led to him poking me...05:12
carlosI have it in my queue05:12
carloshmm05:12
carlosthen it's different05:13
lamonthe's trying to get things long term to have the right stuff05:13
carloslamont, yeah, please, fix it but don't worry too much about old versions, we are all busy but I can fix it with a couple of mouse clicks05:13
carlosand store it in our database05:14
lamontthe set of issues hereare: 1) the whole delivery mechanism is ugly/hackish and needs to be replaced for bob to build it cleanly. 2) all the buildd's deliver the same file, and newer (sometimes incorrect) files overwrite older ones05:14
lamont3) any change to the current hackish delivery mechanism requires changes to said hackish delivery mechanism, in multiple places.05:15
lamontKinnison: you got that you require a clean solution to this for launchpad, right?05:15
lamontKinnison: please don't promote crack....05:16
Kinnisonlamont: langpacks?05:16
lamontKinnison: got it in one.05:16
Kinnisonlamont: the buildd master will invoke the relevant rosetta functions directly on extracting the langpack from the slave05:16
carlosKinnison, so the buildd will push the tarballs into Rosetta?05:17
lamontmy thinking is that they should just be one more file for dpkg-genpackage to deal with, and have the archive processing understand to just dump them on the side for lunchpad to grab.05:17
Kinnisonlamont: exactly05:17
Kinnisonlamont: well, dpkg-genchanges05:17
lamontKinnison: the issue currently at hand is that all the langpack tarballs from the 64-bit architectures are missing .mo files05:17
lamontyeah, genchanges05:18
Kinnisonlamont: Right. Currently we permit nominating an arch for arch_all, so I guess we can nominate an arch for langpacks05:18
lamontand the fact that our ia64 boxen are not the fastest boxes in the history of time, means that ia64 usually won, unless it was slow enough that  rosetta had already pulled the translations05:18
lamontthey all do it because they want langpacks to include arch-specific packages as well.05:19
Kinnisonaah right05:19
=== Kinnison will coordinate with daf/carlos on the best way to do this
lamontyeah - it sucks more than arch all does05:19
Kinnisonbut not until July05:19
lamontfine by me.05:19
=== Kinnison has enough to get on with until then :-)
=== Kinnison files an 'idea' away until then
=== lamont will ponder what the least hackish kludge to the current SPOC is
carlosKinnison, yeah, please, we should talk about it :-)05:20
lamont(er, steaming pile of crap, btw.)05:20
carloslamont, can you ban ia64 translation tarballs?05:21
carloslamont, I don't think we have any ia64 exclusive binary with translations05:21
carlosso that way the problem is gone until Kinnison's code is ready05:21
lamontamd64 is also an issue, and ISTR there might be some amd64-specific stuff05:23
lamontbut we could just plain ban both architectures - that'd be really simple for me.05:23
dafarch-specific translations05:24
dafwah!05:24
lamontdaf: exactly05:24
=== daf runs away
lamontactually, that's really translations in arch-specific packages05:24
dafyarr05:25
dafthe tricky thing is that it means processing the same sourcepackage/version multiple times to get all binary package mappings05:26
carloslamont, I think it's ok to miss them until we fix the problem 05:26
carloslamont, are they desktop applications or used a lot by people?05:27
lamontpool/main/i/ia32-libs05:27
lamontpool/main/i/ia32-libs-gtk05:27
lamontpool/main/i/ia32-libs-openoffice.org05:27
lamontpool/main/l/linux-kernel-di-amd64-2.605:27
lamontpool/main/o/openoffice.org-amd6405:27
lamontis the amd64-specific package list for main05:27
carloslamont, oh, that!05:27
carlosforget them05:27
carlosthey come from the same source05:27
carlosfrom other applications, right?05:28
carlos s/applications/architectures/05:28
lamontright.  I'll deal with this today then, and no more 64-bit translations until they can produce good ones05:28
lamontia32-libs* are just copies of ia32 stuff05:28
lamontoo.o-amd64 nfc, but probably just a metapackage to get the right stuff happening\05:28
carloslamont, as long as we get a version of the .pot and .po files is enough05:28
lamontlinux-kernel-di-amd64-2.6 is the only one of any concern to me, and that's really a Kamion question05:29
lamontsince I have no idea...)05:29
carloslamont, don't think it will have too many translations....05:29
lamontdunno if any of those have any :0)05:29
carloslamont, then ban that architecture :-D05:30
lamontyep.  that's what I'll do today, sometime within the next 2-3 hours05:31
lamontI'll let you know when it's done05:31
carlosok05:32
carloslamont, thanks05:32
lamonthrm... actually, I still need to strip them, I just need to not deliver the files to you.05:33
lamontthat's even easier05:33
lamontcarlos: hrm.. .you're about to get a flood of (maybe) new translations, compliments of the two i386 buildd's that were't being aggregated.  sorry05:35
lamont1 in the next run, the other shortly after I make apache run on the buildd.05:36
carloslamont, don't worry05:36
carlosas I said, we are not doing anything with breezy05:36
carlosso we ignore them until next month05:37
lamontnp... was just an "oops.... INCOMING" warning05:39
dafbreezy imports turn on Rosetta go BOOM05:45
carlos:-)05:46
HiddenWolfIsn't the entire goal of Rosetta to translate ubuntu, thus breezy?06:30
mdkeit is ever more ambitious than that06:33
mdkeits goal is to translate EVERYTHING06:33
mdkemwahahaha06:33
dafHiddenWolf: yes06:40
dafHiddenWolf: but we need to do some data administration before the breezy import06:41
dafHiddenWolf: currently we are busy working on the code06:41
=== HiddenWolf grins
HiddenWolfYou'll not know where it breaks till you break it. :)06:45
dafok, it'll probably work06:51
dafit's just going to be really busy for a couple of days06:51
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mptHiddenWolf: The Launchpad hierarchy navigation, and the Rosetta front pages, are both planned to become more streamlined over the next couple of months.10:33
HiddenWolfmpt, do you want me to spit out my ideas on the wiki somewhere, or can I just sit back?10:35
mptwhat wiki?10:35
HiddenWolfno clue. Never used it. :P10:35
mptSpitting them out here would work fine :-)10:35
HiddenWolfI'll check if I logged yesterday's rant10:36
HiddenWolfWoohoo10:39
mptI was logged on too, so no repetition necessary10:39
HiddenWolfAh.10:39
HiddenWolfWell, that covered the gist of it, and at least the spirit.10:40
HiddenWolfIf you want people to help, present data in such a way that they'll feel and be useful as soon as possible, try to get every hurdle but registration out of the way.10:41
mptyah10:41
HiddenWolfUsercase I worried about was the user/enthousiast who is convinced the current translations sucks, wants to click a button, and help out.10:41
HiddenWolfIn that scenario, you either have a person looking to improve translations as a whole, so he should just be able to click "translate now" and get to work asap.10:42
HiddenWolfOr the person who is convinced the person who translated $packageX was on crack, so he'd like to be presented with the things he thinks are wrong, so he can improve them.10:43
mptyep10:43
mptOne thing I'd like to present is a list of things you've been translating recently10:43
mptso you can pick up where you've left off, without having to do bookmarks etc yourself10:43
HiddenWolfPerfect as a motivational tool also.10:43
mptand also, a list of random things that need translating.10:43
HiddenWolfJust don't present them with a list of packages.10:44
HiddenWolfEveryone who is not a docteam or release maintainer wouldn't be interested in that. (bad grammar, 11pm, bear with me)10:44
mptYou mean a list of packages that might or might not already be translated?10:44
mptOr a list of packages at all?10:44
HiddenWolfThe interface you have right now is perfect for the techy, the maintainer and the nerd, what the more common/casual user needs, is either a list of packages that are not translated in $hislanguage, or no mumbling about packages at all, but just strings.10:45
HiddenWolfSearching on packages would be helpful, but not a solution in any way.10:46
HiddenWolfThe way it is presented now in the interface is package  > details > language > translation -  This is illogical if the goal is translation, you're hiding it behind 2 steps. 10:47
HiddenWolfThere should be an overview per language, with the option to check for packages needing love, check how far along the language translation is in general, or just get to translating the first untranslated string on the que10:48
mptmmm10:48
mptI'm actually writing the spec for that today10:48
mptSo I'll take that into account, thanks10:49
HiddenWolfThat way you give people the option to click right through, get rid of information most users wouldn't care about, and taking out 2 steps.10:49
HiddenWolfI'd leave the current setup around tho, because it provides a clear overview for maintainers. :)10:50
mptWell, maintainers should get a "You are maintainer of:" list10:52
HiddenWolfmpt, could you give me a heads-up on that spec once you get around to it? This thing really caught my interest.10:52
HiddenWolfmpt, true, but the same goes for any function.10:52
mptHiddenWolf: No, sorry, the Launchpad wiki is developers-only10:52
HiddenWolfI bet a translator would love to know if a string in his/her pet package changed and needs revising.10:53
HiddenWolfmpt, I said heads-up, not carbon copy. :)10:53
mptI'll keep the summary up to date at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaEntityPages10:53
HiddenWolfi've got no intention of being on your back, getting excited about something that doesn't pay, and taking time away from my exams. ;)10:54
mptheh10:54
HiddenWolfMicroeconomics will be nasty, and I just fluked finance and accounting. I'd rather not add a few more to that list. :)10:55
HiddenWolfSo good night to you. :)10:55
mptgoodnight, and have fun with the exams10:58
HiddenWolfeconomics, fun, well, yeah, perhaps the drinking afterwards. :)11:01
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