[01:24] <robertj> ooh avahi shiny
[01:24] <syndicate> if you wanted to write an applet in Gnome, would you use libpanel-applet2?
[01:49] <mdke> mdke, new wiki is awesome
[01:50] <tseng> tseng, i agree
[01:50] <mdke> damn
[01:50] <mdke> good point
[01:50] <mdke> mdz, ^^
[02:08] <som> hrmm, ppp_mppe_mppc isn't getting probed in by pptpd...
[02:09] <robertj> is that the intended functionality?
[02:12] <robertj> ppp-compress-18 is aliased to ppp_mppe but ppp_mppe_mppc is needed for pptpd to play nice with OS X & Windows machines
[02:38] <tseng> puc looks stupid with 3 of me
[03:02] <schweeb> tseng: I agree, less tseng, more jdub
[03:03] <tseng> schweeb: dude jdub blogs are all like gnomegnomegnomegnomebadgerbadgerbadger
[03:04] <schweeb> hehe
[03:04] <schweeb> and tseng blogs are all omgmonomonomonoiambrandonhalemonomono
[03:05] <tseng> yes
[03:05] <tseng> infinately cooler
[03:05] <schweeb> well, they would be
[03:05] <schweeb> if you could frigging spell infinitely
[03:06] <tseng> gosh
[03:08] <jdub> MORE X!
[03:19] <mdz> jdub: EVERYONE GETS A PIECE
[03:19] <mdz> tear off a hunk and start chewing
[03:41] <mdke> mdz, how are you liking the new wiki?
[03:41] <mdke> we are loving it
[03:41] <mdke> TM
[03:42] <mdke> some teething problems but it'll get there
[03:59] <mdz> mdke: I much prefer moin; I'm glad that the transition seems to have gone well
[04:00] <mdke> :)
[04:00] <mdke> its working better too: speed and caching
[04:00] <mdke> makes such a difference
[04:01] <mdke> henrik will be sending a mail detailed any outstanding issues
[04:01] <mdke> mdz, one to note right now is that subscriptions have not been carried over, dunno if you use that
[04:02] <mdke> its not a biggie, given that diffs and RecentChanges are so much better
[04:02] <mdz> mdke: yeah, I was subscribed to the whole wiki as a substitute for RecentChanges
[04:02] <mdke> *grins*
[04:02] <mdke> me too
[04:02] <mdz> so now I'm only resubscribing to a few pages
[04:03] <mdke> cool
[04:16] <jdub> mdz: enjoying reading the ltsp changelogs ;)
[04:29] <mdz> jdub: it's now at a point where if you want to play with it, the only manual portion of the setup is dhcpd.conf
[04:29] <mdz> everything else just works
[04:34] <jdub> mdz: yikes
[04:34] <jdub> mdz: is there a setup guide?
[04:41] <jdub> i love seeing tell-tale signs of ubuntu in project screenshots
[04:41] <jdub> http://www.ndesk.org/nbind/
[05:00] <bob2> the GIGANTIC date div on planet is a little surprising
[05:00] <jbailey> jdub: The theme on the window?
[05:23] <Burgundavia> jdub, thoughts? (who should this person talk to?) http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=42465
[05:34] <jdub> Burgundavia: technically extremely difficult
[05:34] <jdub> and requires lots of integration
[05:35] <jdub> hard integration
[05:35] <jdub> totally non-breezy
[05:36] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:05] <Lathiat> We're all screwed now
[06:07] <|QuaD-> who maintains gaim?
[06:08] <Jimbob> Maintainer: Robert McQueen <robot101@debian.org>
[06:08] <Jimbob> "apt-cache show gaim"
[06:08] <|QuaD-> Jimbob: i was referring to for ubuntu
[06:09] <|QuaD-> seems that si the debian maintainer
[06:09] <jdub> |QuaD-: look at the changelog :)
[06:09] <|QuaD-> jdub: how?
[06:09] <Jimbob> /usr/share/doc/gaim/changelog.Debian.gz -- Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>
[06:10] <|QuaD-> oh :)
[06:10] <|QuaD-> he isn't areound :(
[06:10] <|QuaD-> i was wondering if he would include a cool new plugin
[06:10] <|QuaD-> actually not new
[06:11] <|QuaD-> http://gaim-assistant.tulg.org/
[06:16] <bob2> jdub: blog it!
[06:24] <srbaker> i don't suppoase anyone has made dvd images for ubuntu?
[06:24] <srbaker> all i have are blank dvds
[06:24] <srbaker> for hoary.  i'd rather not put breezy on my system yet
[06:24] <Lathiat> srbaker: There are hoary dvd images
[06:25] <srbaker> Lathiat, i can't find them.  can you point me in the right direction?
[06:26] <Lathiat> http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/
[06:27] <srbaker> aha
[06:27] <srbaker> the install/live ddvd
[06:27] <srbaker> got it
[06:27] <fabbione> morning
[06:27] <srbaker> it says bittorrent onliy
[06:31] <Lathiat> So bittorrent it :)
[06:31] <Lathiat> Now this discussion should really be in #ubuntu
[06:31] <Lathiat> this channel is for development discussion
[07:16] <AndyFitz> xorg broken ?
[07:16] <AndyFitz> meh .. too late  upgraded :-P
[08:22] <mdz> jdub: setup guide:
[08:23] <mdz> jdub: 1. install ltsp-server-standalone (or ltsp-server + the pieces you need), 2. configure dhcpd.conf to netboot pxelinux, 3. ltsp-build-client, 4. boot thin client(s)
[08:28] <mdz> I just need to publish an example for #2 and it should be trivial
[08:40] <hunger> Is xkb hosed again?
[08:42] <Amaranth> hunger: Oh dear, people are going to be pissed.
[08:43] <hunger> Amaranth: Might be me skrewing up my keyboard...
[08:43] <Amaranth> oh
[08:43] <hunger> Win-key is gone missing again here... maybe it is just my system.
[08:43] <Amaranth> well, it's 1:34am and i need to get up early tomorrow, goodnight all
[08:53] <Q-FUNK> say... when exactly did the wiki move from ubuntulinux.org to ubuntu.com ?
[08:56] <Q-FUNK> pretty silly now, because I hadn't logged in in a while and forgot which username I had & all.  Galeon used to remember it, but obviously won't if the domain is different.
[09:09] <desrt> is it appropriate to report stupid little bugs against breezy?
[09:10] <desrt> (specifically, libxfixes3 is required by a whole whack of stuff, but not formally depended on by anything)
[09:11] <desrt> is that worth opening?
[09:11] <fabbione> desrt: a direct dependency is not always required.
[09:11] <fabbione> is this whack of stuff linked with libxfixes?
[09:11] <desrt> fabbione; ya
[09:11] <fabbione> or it is an indirect depends
[09:12] <desrt> like gnome-*
[09:12] <desrt> essentially, i can apt-get install gnome-panel without xfixes being installed
[09:12] <fabbione> desrt: if it is linked, than it should have been added to the Depends: at build time
[09:12] <desrt> in breezy right now
[09:13] <fabbione> desrt: gnome-panel is not linked to libxfixes
[09:13] <fabbione> that's ok
[09:13] <fabbione> it doesn't need a Depends:
[09:14] <desrt> ...
[09:14] <fabbione> ldd /usr/bin/gnome-panel | grep fix
[09:14] <fabbione> fabbione@gordian:~$ 
[09:14] <desrt> desrt@moonpix:~$ ldd /usr/bin/gnome-panel | grep fix
[09:14] <desrt>         libXfixes.so.3 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXfixes.so.3 (0xb7548000)
[09:14] <desrt> heh.  weird.
[09:14] <fabbione> hmm what version of gnome-panel ?
[09:14] <desrt> 463a5659fe2ef97774f2067295dabcf3  /usr/bin/gnome-panel
[09:15] <fabbione> let me see if i am one version behind
[09:15] <desrt> it could easily be that this machine is seriously messed up right now
[09:15] <fabbione> nah i am checkign... gimme a sec
[09:15] <desrt> it's gone from hoary to breezy back to hoary and i just brought it to breezy again :)
[09:16] <fabbione> 463a5659fe2ef97774f2067295dabcf3  /usr/bin/gnome-panel
[09:16] <fabbione> 463a5659fe2ef97774f2067295dabcf3  /usr/bin/gnome-panel
[09:16] <fabbione> ops
[09:16] <fabbione> sorry
[09:17] <desrt> fun.
[09:17] <fabbione> ldd /usr/bin/gnome-panel | grep fix
[09:17] <fabbione> no results
[09:17] <desrt> i'm just gonna un/reinstall X
[09:17] <desrt> thanks for the comparison :)
[09:17] <fabbione> no problem
[09:17] <ivoks> heh
[09:18] <ivoks> no fix here too
[09:18] <desrt> another one, though: ubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on ubuntu-base and i think it should :P
[09:25] <ivoks> hm... keyboard still not working right in X :(
[10:38] <Kamion> lamont: the approach in #314368 looks totally sensible for breezy
[10:38] <Kamion> lamont: we don't need the modutils udebs in Ubuntu, but I can't remember whether anything in Debian uses them
[11:09] <Keybuk> hmm, I _still_ can't login from gdm
[11:34] <bob2> tseng: muine doesn't run no more
[11:53] <Keybuk> so is breezy X working for anyone at the moment?
[11:56] <thom> works for me
[11:57] <Keybuk> hmm
[11:57] <Keybuk> you can login from gdm, and startx on the console?
[11:57] <Keybuk> startx gives me /usr/bin/X11/X: No such file or directory
[11:58] <thom> i could yesterday, yeah
[11:59] <Lathiat> works for me and i have the latest
[11:59] <Lathiat> Keybuk: make sure ubuntu-desktop is installed?
[11:59] <Keybuk> Lathiat: it is
[12:01] <Keybuk> hmm, what makes that symlink
[12:01] <Keybuk> it looks like daniels moved it to /etc/X11/X
[12:01] <Keybuk> and xinitrc hasn't caught up
[12:02] <Keybuk> Lathiat: what does /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc contain on your box?
[12:02] <Lathiat> root@ubuntu:~ # cat /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
[12:02] <Lathiat> #!/bin/sh
[12:02] <Lathiat> exec /usr/bin/X11/X -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp
[12:02] <Keybuk> do you have a /usr/bin/X11/X ?
[12:03] <Lathiat> nope
[12:03] <Lathiat> butit still works
[12:03] <Keybuk> startx works?  or just gdm?
[12:04] <doko> the only thing I get is a popup dialog complaining about xkb
[12:04] <doko> everything else seems to work
[12:04] <Keybuk> hmm
[12:04] <Keybuk> now it appears that Xorg isn't setuid root
[12:05] <sivang> yo all
[12:06] <Keybuk> changing that file and making Xorg setuid root lets me startx
[12:06] <Keybuk> but gdm still won't login -- I get a session chooser widget thing that does nothing
[12:09] <Keybuk> right, so if I explicitly select "GNOME" I can login
[12:10] <Keybuk> but the "Default Session" thing isn't GNOME
[12:10] <Lathiat> yeh
[12:11] <Keybuk> weirdness
[12:13] <opi> Hi guys
[12:13] <opi> (host lists.ubuntu.com[209.61.182.217]  said: 421 Unexpected failure)
[12:14] <opi> is there anything wrong with ubuntu.com mail server?
[12:14] <Keybuk> brb, now I have something graphical
[12:14] <opi> or where should I report that :-)
[12:15] <opi> (host lists.ubuntu.com[209.61.182.217]  said: 452 Space shortage)
[12:16] <opi> hmmm
[12:18] <sabdfl> opi: oops. that's an old box of mine and it's out of disk space
[12:18] <sabdfl> thanks for the heads up
[12:18] <opi> sabdfl: no problem
[12:18] <sabdfl> i'll try fix it, maybe elmo has a plan to move those lists to a newer canonical box
[12:18] <opi> sabdfl: I just rushed to raport, because it's like that since 2h or so
[12:19] <dholbach> hi
[12:21] <opi> OK, my work is done here. I'm moving back to work :P
[12:23] <tseng> bob2: youd have to be more specific
[12:24] <bob2> tseng: when I start it, ot does nothing, and venetually comes up with a "time out" error
[12:24] <bob2> tseng: even after nuking ~/.gnome2/muine/
[12:24] <tseng> dpkg -l muine* | grep ii
[12:24] <tseng> ?
[12:25] <bob2> tseng: 0.8.2-5ubuntu2
[12:25] <tseng> actually
[12:25] <tseng> things are going to get alot more broken
[12:26] <bob2> this is hoary
[12:26] <tseng> uh
[12:26] <tseng> WFMAEE
[12:26] <tseng> (and everyone else?)
[12:26] <bob2> yeah, and used to work for me
[12:27] <tseng> ive never heard of muine "timing out"
[12:27] <tseng> is it timing out to dbus?
[12:28] <Keybuk> ok... so I can get X to start
[12:28] <Keybuk> but none of the bucky-bits work on the keyboard
[12:28] <bob2> Unhandled Exception: DBus.DBusException: No reply within specified time
[12:28] <bob2> in <0x00167> DBus.Message:SendWithReplyAndBlock ()
[12:28] <bob2> in <0x000c6> Muine.DBusLib.Player.Proxy:SetWindowVisible (bool)
[12:28] <bob2> in <0x00112> Muine.Global:Main (string[] )
[12:28] <bob2> tseng: right
[12:28] <tseng> there you go
[12:28] <tseng> fix your dbus
[12:28] <tseng> :)
[12:29] <bob2> hrm
[12:29] <bob2> same error, even after restarting the dbus daemon
[12:29] <bob2> I'll bitch at daniel when he lands
[12:30] <Keybuk> is there anything daniels didn't break before he left? :)
[12:30] <tseng> restarting system dbus daemon, or user dbus?
[12:30] <tseng> not the same thing
[12:30] <bob2> system
[12:30] <tseng> can you start a new session (after insuring there are no left overs from this one)?
[12:30] <tseng> gnome session i mean
[12:31] <bob2> ah, user
[12:31] <bob2> = restart gnome?
[12:32] <bob2> or in addition to the existing one?
[12:32] <tseng> i dont know how to do it by hand
[12:33] <hunger> Wha! The keyboard guessing game in the installer is fun;-)
[12:33] <tseng> buh we are going to have to --force-overwrite the new mono debs
[12:33] <dholbach> brb
[12:33] <tseng> since upstream pulled a fast one on me last release
[12:35] <dholbach> hrm
[12:35] <tseng> wb
[12:35] <dholbach> none of the comments to the xkb bugs was helpful
[12:35] <Keybuk> dholbach: bug#s?
[12:35] <hunger> dholbach: So there is a new xkb bug?
[12:36] <dholbach> Keybuk: 11909 and 11931 iirc
[12:36] <hunger> dholbach: I am seeing it (at least my win key is no longer recognized). How can I help?
[12:36] <Keybuk> and 10695 and 10939? ;)
[12:36] <tseng> ok kids, DO NOT install this mono
[12:36] <tseng> its a bootstrap
[12:37] <dholbach> hunger: fix "(EE) Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap" for me :)
[12:37] <hunger> dholbach: I am definitly only missing the win key...
[12:37] <dholbach> writing latex without backslash and curly braces is ... not funny
[12:37] <Keybuk> I'm missing Compose too
[12:37] <Keybuk> And AltGr
[12:37] <dholbach> (not to mention writing C or C++ code)
[12:37] <hunger> dholbach: Now that you mention those: AltGr is missing too.
[12:38] <hunger> dholbach: Yes, I got the same error in Xorg.log.
[12:38] <mdke> everyone has it i think
[12:38] <dholbach> perhaps i should just grab a pen and some pieces of paper and take a train to the nearest lake and write some pages there
[12:38] <hunger> Feels good to not be alone after all;-)
[12:38] <tseng> dput should actualyl show some stuff about the upload
[12:39] <tseng> speed, progress
[12:39] <dholbach> tseng: how about some ascii movie, if the upload takes a bit longer? ;-)
[12:39] <tseng> yes
[12:39] <hunger> I wonder how my completly custom keyboard mapping managed to turn from xkb into pre-xkb?
[12:39] <sivang> Hmm does anybody know if gibraltar is non free? looks that way judging by their downloads section
[12:50] <mdke> smurfix, ping?
[12:51] <Keybuk> kids ... don't strace X
[12:51] <mdke> *laughs*
[12:52] <dholbach> Keybuk: i thought about it too :)
[12:52] <thom> Keybuk: yeah, it has interesting side effects, like hanging your system
[12:52] <Keybuk> it didn't hang ... it's just went v  e  r  y      s  l  o  w  l  y
[12:52] <dholbach> (but thought the better of it)
[12:52] <thom> ah, it hangs my laptop every time
[12:52] <thom> but that just might be the awfulness of the i810 driver
[12:53] <Keybuk> well, a lot of stuff is trying to access /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/...
[12:53] <Keybuk> which daniels appears to have helpfully ommitted the symlink for
[12:53] <Keybuk> and /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[12:54] <Keybuk> (now /usr/share/X11/XkeysymDB)
[12:54] <hunger> Keybuk: That does not change anything:-(
[12:54] <dholbach> i tried to symlink XKeysymDB but that doesnt seem to be enough
[12:55] <Keybuk> hunger: did you do _both_ ?
[12:55] <hunger> Keybuk: I did the last time the keyboard was broken.
[12:56] <__keybuk> well, it's fixed vt-switching
[12:56] <__keybuk> I got an X and GNOME differ dialog -- and selected GNOME
[12:57] <__keybuk> yay, and I have Win, AltGr and Compose now
[12:57] <thom> what the christ does "dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: Exec format error" mean
[12:57] <dholbach> __keybuk: what should /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/ point to?
[12:57] <tseng> perhaps the script is -x?
[12:57] <mjg59> Is postinst an executable script?
[12:58] <hunger> __keybuk: So symlinking helps this time round?
[12:58] <thom> mjg59: yes
[12:58] <thom> tseng: no
[12:58] <Keybuk> w00t
[12:58] <Keybuk> \o/
[12:58] <Keybuk> no dialogs this time
[12:58] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% xprop -root | grep XKB
[12:58] <Keybuk> _XKB_RULES_NAMES_BACKUP(STRING) = "xorg", "pc105", "gb", "", ""
[12:58] <Keybuk> _XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "xorg", "pc105", "gb", "", "compose:rctl"
[12:58] <thom>  "sudo /var/lib/dpkg/info/network-manager.postinst configure" works fine
[12:58] <Keybuk> hunger: it looks like you need both symlinks
[12:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: script can't be -x, dpkg would've refused to build the deb
[12:59] <thom> there's nothing useful in dpkg.log
[12:59] <Keybuk> thom: ?
[01:00] <thom> Keybuk: trying to figure out why dpkg is crying about my postinst
[01:00] <Keybuk> thom: what's the error?
[01:00] <thom> < thom> what the christ does "dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: Exec format error" mean
[01:01] <Keybuk>        ENOEXEC
[01:01] <Keybuk>               An executable is not in a recognised format, is  for  the  wrong
[01:01] <Keybuk>               architecture,  or has some other format error that means it can
[01:01] <Keybuk>               not be executed.
[01:01] <thom> ah, heh. found it. missing !.
[01:01] <Keybuk> ;)
[01:02] <Keybuk> yah, is generally bad shabang
[01:03] <thom> besides that, looks like new NM is hot to trot
[01:03] <Keybuk> how usable is it at the moment?
[01:04] <thom> the one i'm just about to upload works great for me
[01:04] <Keybuk> cool, I shall test
[01:05] <thom> the one in breezy is known not to work, so don't bother for the next hour or so :-)
[01:05] <HiddenWolf> omg, I've never seen it so active here on a saturday. :)
[01:07] <Keybuk> thom: yeah, I tried that one
[01:08] <Keybuk> I'm trying to ween myself off NIH
[01:09] <thom> Keybuk: heh
[01:09] <thom> Uploading via ftp network-manager_0.4.1+cvs20050618-1_source.changes: done.
[01:09] <thom> Successfully uploaded packages.
[01:20] <mdke> jdub, around?
[01:20] <dholbach> Keybuk: thank you :)))
[01:22] <mdke> we are having some issues with the -doc mailing lists, is anyone else receiving list mail?
[01:23] <bob2> lists.ubuntu.com is temporarily screwed
[01:24] <mdke> right
[01:24] <mdke> ok
[01:53] <Keybuk> who broke xscreensaver?
[01:56] <pef> hello
[01:56] <pef> can someone explains me why oss is not completely deleted (for alsa) from ubuntu ?
[01:59] <bob2> because not everything does alsa
[02:00] <pef> bob2: have you examples (apps ?)
[02:01] <bob2> no idea
[02:04] <dholbach> see you later
[02:06] <smurfix> mdke: 
[02:06] <mdke> *grins*
[02:07] <mdke> smurfix, did you add #ubuntu-it-meeting to LoCoBot?
[02:08] <smurfix> it's there now
[02:08] <mdke> bingo
[02:08] <mdke> thanks :D
[02:09] <smurfix> I forgot to re-add it after freenode annoyed me with a "you're on too many channels" message
[02:09] <mdke> idiots
[02:09] <mdke> smurfix, so is there a way to get on more channels you think?
[02:09] <smurfix> I don't know, I'll have to ask them; at the moment there's a locobt and a locobot2 *shrug*
[02:10] <mdke> ok
[02:10] <mdke> well thanks v much for doing that
[02:10] <mdke> its a cool service
[02:11] <smurfix> np
[03:02] <ogra> Keybuk, whats broken in xscreensaver ?
[03:16] <Keybuk> ogra: it has the old-fashioned jwzware password dialog
[03:16] <Keybuk> and not the Ubuntu one
[03:17] <ogra> Keybuk, http://www.grawert.net/xss_mockup.png
[03:17] <ogra> Keybuk, it has a new login button, and jwz changed all xpm funcition names internally.... so i hav to rewrite the whole stuff :-/
[03:18] <Keybuk> right
[03:18] <Keybuk> is there any particular reason we don't make it look _exactly_ like the gdm greeter?
[03:19] <Keybuk> they see that for logging in, and for switching users, so it makes some sense to me that they'd see it for unlocking screen too
[03:19] <torkel> ogra: looks really nice. Two things I miss though. A clock and for how long it has been locked
[03:20] <ogra> torkel, nope, new concept ;)
[03:20] <ogra> (how long it has been locked was never included)
[03:20] <torkel> ogra: I know, and I have missed it all these years :-)
[03:21] <ogra> torkel, the next version should just reset the timeout on every keystroke, so it closes only if there is really no input for some while
[03:23] <ogra> Keybuk, because we have found nobody to do it.... vunz wants to do it, butnot in breezy time
[03:24] <ogra> Keybuk, so currently we fall back on my old dialog...with modifications
[03:24] <Keybuk> still better than jwzware :)
[03:24] <ogra> yes...
[03:25] <torkel> Keybuk: everything is better than jwzware :-)
[03:25] <ogra> jdub's blogentry about freescreensave made me think about it... we probably should do it :)
[03:25] <Keybuk> jwz has the UI instinct of an octopus
[03:25] <ogra> hehe
[03:25] <ogra> and weird ideas of copyrights
[03:26] <ogra>    change the logo that xscreensaver displays on the splash screen and
[03:26] <ogra>    password dialog, please don't.  The logo is xscreensaver's identity.
[03:26] <ogra>    You wouldn't alter the name or copyright notice on a program that
[03:26] <ogra>    you didn't write; please don't alter its logo either.
[03:26] <ogra>  */
[03:27] <ogra> a comment from jwz 
[03:35] <Lathiat> ogra: heh
[03:37] <thom> right, please test newest network-manager, please
[03:38] <thom> well, when it gets to the archive
[03:38] <doko> pittiping
[03:38] <doko> pitti: ping
[03:38] <doko> :)
[03:38] <ska-fan> no route to host
[03:42] <ogra> thom, do you have a version that builds now ?
[03:42] <ogra> (last upload failed)
[03:42] <ogra> chown -R bind:bind debian/network-manager/var/lib/NetworkManager
[03:42] <ogra> 1526	chown: `bind:bind': invalid user
[03:50] <thom> ogra: yes, 2 is already uploaded and built on all arches
[03:50] <ogra> ah, ok
[03:51] <ogra> i didnt see it on -changes
[03:51] <thom> ah
[03:51] <thom> yeah; it's in the archive and downloadable now
[03:52] <ogra> btw, it doesnt work with my pcmcia card to well....
[03:52] <thom> try the new one, please. and then file a bug :-)
[03:53] <ogra> its a common problem.... that lies rather on the HAL level....since that card doesnt support network scanning and HAL doesnt even recognize it as wlan
[03:53] <lamont> wooo hooo... xpaint forkbomb-of-xorg-death
[04:05] <thom> ogra: ah
[04:10] <ogra> hmpf
[04:12] <Keybuk> thom: so, I installed network-manager, now what? ;)
[04:12] <Keybuk> ah, it's still an icon?
[04:14] <Keybuk> thom: it thinks my signal is half of what it is
[04:14] <Keybuk> and now it thinks it's 8% not 80% :p
[04:16] <robertj> heya ogra, from what I understand, pptpd won't accept windows or mac clients with the default set of module aliases
[04:16] <Treenaks> Keybuk: wow, you can connect to your network with n-m ?
[04:16] <robertj> has this been discussed before?
[04:16] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yeah, and my neighbour's :p
[04:16] <Treenaks> Keybuk: wow..
[04:17] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I can't connect to any networks
[04:17] <robertj> without ppp_mppe_mppc it's very unhappy, but apparently ppp-compress-18 is aliased to plain old ppp_mppe
[04:18] <Treenaks> robertj: ppp?!
[04:18] <tseng> have you filed a bug assigned to kernel team?
[04:18] <Treenaks> robertj: what does my WEP-encrypted wifi network have to do with ppp?
[04:18] <robertj> Treenaks: it doesn't different question
[04:19] <Treenaks> robertj: ah ok :) nm then
[04:19] <robertj> Treenaks: This is needed to get pptpd to play nicely
[04:20] <robertj> tseng: is that for me?
[04:21] <tseng> robertj: yes
[04:21] <tseng> christ me, NM actually did something
[04:21] <robertj> tseng: well its probably a policy question
[04:21] <robertj> because it seems that that compression implementation is patented
[04:21] <tseng> well if you file a bug or post to a mailing list instead of asking on irc at odd times
[04:21] <tseng> you are more likely to hear about policy or whatever the reasoning is
[04:22] <robertj> I just wanted to check here before bothering the list
[04:23] <tseng> well it sounds like you have a valid question, please pose it somewhere less volatile
[04:23] <tseng> things on irc are lost instantly if the right person isnt watching
[04:23] <robertj> yeah, I will
[04:23] <tseng> thanks :)
[04:24] <robertj> I'm actually going to wait and talk to a fellow in pptp when he signs on that will know if there is a way to disable this compression and still talk to microsoft clients
[04:24] <robertj> because if so, that seems like the only viable thing to do
[04:30] <robertj> btw, I finally got avahi compiled, whee.
[04:32] <tseng> thom: it actually kind of sort of works sometimes
[04:32] <tseng> thom: congrats
[05:15] <pitti> Hi
[05:16] <LinuxJones> hello pitti 
[05:32] <dhonn> is there a way to make a gnome panel not "always on top"?
[05:32] <mdke> dhonn, if you ask in #ubuntu, they should be able to help
[05:33] <dhonn> it needs to be developed
[05:33] <mdke> oh, sorry misunderstood ya
[05:33] <mdke> you don't like the properties "autohide" thing?
[05:34] <dhonn> theres a bug where transparent panels dont show whats underneath them.  you just see the bg image and not underlapping windows under them
[05:34] <mdke> is that a bug?
[05:35] <mdke> or just lack of real transparency
[05:35] <dhonn> both
[05:35] <dhonn> lol
[05:39] <mdke> well i don't know much about it, but I can't see real transparency being implemented in gnome-panel for a while
[05:40] <mdke> you can get it with xcompmgr and transcod tho
[05:40] <mdke> argh
[05:40] <mdke> transset
[05:44] <thom> tseng: *giggle*
[05:46] <|QuaD-> pitti: you around?
[05:46] <pitti> |QuaD-: yes
[05:46] <|QuaD-> pitti: you package gaim right?
[05:46] <pitti> no, that's seb128
[05:46] <|QuaD-> oh ok
[05:46] <pitti> |QuaD-: I do the security updates, though
[05:47] <|QuaD-> pitti: i was wondering if it would be possible to have a plugin included, but i gotta talk to seb :)
[05:47] <pitti> yes, that'd be better
[05:47] <|QuaD-> pitti: thanks
[05:47] <pitti> no problem :-)
[05:52] <mdke> mako, around perchance?
[06:07] <sivang> pitti: yellow :-) 'sup?
[06:07] <pitti> sivang: just returned from a nice 50 km biking tour, I feel great :-) and you? (and what about yellow?)
[06:13] <mdke> has anyone any news about the mailing lists?
[06:15] <zul> they're down?
[06:16] <mdke> i haven't had any mail for 14 hours
[06:16] <mdke> since about 2 am UTC
[06:18] <bob2> some are down
[06:19] <bob2> only the ones on rince
[06:20] <mdke> ah right
[06:20] <mdke> bob2, is there an ETA for getting them back up?
[06:20] <mdke> i guess its a weekend...
[06:21] <bob2> I have no idea
[06:21] <bob2> go play in the park or something ;p
[06:22] <mdke> *grins*
[06:22] <mdke> i'm english
[06:22] <bob2> ah
[06:22] <mdke> i can't go outside because it will be too hot or too cold
[06:22] <mdke> depending
[06:22] <bob2> you could go drink tea and whinge about the weather instead, then ;p
[06:22] <bob2> haha
[06:31] <sivang> pitti: ah , had lost a debian router this weekend but other then that, nothing special ;-)
[06:32] <sivang> pitti: yellow is like hello, from some stupid joke I heaed
[06:36] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[06:41] <doko> pitti: unstable builds postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj, but not breezy?
[06:42] <pitti> doko: that's not my package, but Peter Eisentraut's... it isn't in breezy yet?
[06:44] <pitti> it could be NEW
[06:44] <doko> ahh, ok. we'll break libgcj6 compatibility with the next upload
[06:45] <wasabi> huh what's this
[06:46] <wasabi> Hi Jerry,
[06:46] <wasabi> I saw some of your posts on the Ubuntu mailing list and thought you might be interested in taking a look at a book proposal we have and 
[06:46] <wasabi> doing a quick review. Does that sound like something you'd like to do? 
[06:46] <wasabi> heh. I don't remember ever posting anything remotely intelligent to either Ubuntu list.
[06:47] <sabdfl> hey all
[06:58] <two-face> Hi
[06:59] <two-face> I'd like to know if Ubuntu is going to follow Debian if the latter decides to remove all GFDL docs
[07:00] <doko> wasabi: we need to remove the java-gcj-compat dependency from the lib*-java packages. we don't want to have the compilers installed for a runtime dependency
[07:01] <two-face> hi doko
[07:02] <doko> two-face: no
[07:03] <two-face> doko, so packages will have to be forked?
[07:04] <siretart> is it possible that a source package creates binary packages in different sections?
[07:04] <two-face> siretart, yes
[07:12] <two-face> doko, i'm asking since i comaintain emacs, so i'd like things done in common as much as possible
[07:14] <doko> two-face: are you debian maintainer?
[07:14] <hughsie> Anyone want to ask questions about GNOME Power Manager? I'm the main dev.
[07:15] <two-face> doko, yep
[07:15] <wasabi> doko, true.
[07:15] <wasabi> Those should depend on java-runtime I believe.
[07:16] <doko> wasabi: yes, with a real alternative, so better: gij | java1-runtime. I think java-runtime is deprecated
[07:16] <wasabi> Oh? I thought it was the other way around.
[07:17] <doko> two-face: please read mako's mail to debian-private
[07:17] <doko> wasabi: no
[07:17] <two-face> doko, i know about it. I'm just anticipating
[07:23] <asase> can we use breezy?I mean dist-upgrade to breezy? or only some packages? es xorg working ok?
[07:23] <asase> thanks
[07:24] <hughsie> I got an email about this http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/gnome/gnome-power today.
[07:24] <zul> hey pitti 
[07:24] <hughsie> And knowing little about ubuntu I'm asking you guys what the plan is!
[07:24] <pitti> Hi zul
[07:25] <doko> two-face: the source has to be modified, so we might not build from the same source. I'd replace the texinfo docs then with dummy docs, so that the build and install process works and only needs to be adapted for the removal of the docs. but if you ship a separate -doc package as well, we might just import that one and relabel it from non-free to main.
[07:25] <two-face> doko, alright thanks
[08:22] <Treenaks> muine-dbus, muine-plugin* need NEW love
[08:22] <Treenaks> I think
[08:23] <asase> ?
[08:25] <Treenaks> asase: well, the muine-plugin packages are being built..
[08:25] <Treenaks> asase: but they're not in Packages
[08:25] <asase> cool for all those want to get running plugins :)
[08:26] <asase> I always have to build muine to use some plugins
[08:26] <asase> :)
[08:26] <asase> good idea :)
[08:27] <Treenaks> asase: exactly :)
[08:42] <srbaker> sigh
[08:43] <srbaker> what a fucking waste of time.  i tell someone "hi, i've added these features to your software and want to prepare a patch" and he says "no.  i won't accept it even though everyone's crying for it"
[09:20] <mdke> can someone please hack into the mailing lists server and do a reboot
[09:21] <mjg59> Why is my apt-get update complaining that the .gz files aren't bzip2ed?
[09:23] <mjg59> Looks like some sort of content-type issue - it works fine if I use ftp instead
[09:29] <Keybuk> srbaker: it's his software, maybe he doesn't watch that feature?
[09:29] <Keybuk> uh, want that feature
[09:29] <Keybuk> see Havoc Pennington's excellent essays on this issue
[09:30] <Keybuk> metacity "workspace support" and "windows above the panel" support, passim.
[09:31] <wasabi> What sort of security issues are presented by having suid root applications connected to the X server?
[09:31] <wasabi> Curious.
[09:31] <Keybuk> wasabi: other applications can poke stuff into them
[09:31] <Keybuk> you can send keypresses, etc.
[09:31] <Keybuk> so a non-root app can influence a root app
[09:31] <wasabi> When you say poke do you seriously mean "alter memory used by the program" in a way as to take control of it?
[09:32] <wasabi> OR just do simple interactions with it.
[09:32] <Keybuk> no, but (e.g.) if you ran a setuid gnome-terminal -- any other app could run anything as root by sending the shell commands to it
[09:32] <Keybuk> there's also shared memory between the X server and the application that _may_ be exploitable
[09:32] <Keybuk> not to mention shared resources
[09:33] <Keybuk> the general advice is to only connect to the X server as the user, and use a separate setuid sibling process to do the root stuff with IPC between them
[09:33] <Keybuk> ie. a setuid program that forks, and drops privileges from one side
[09:33] <wasabi> Is that how gnome-system-tools work?
[09:33] <Keybuk> yes
[09:33] <wasabi> And Synaptic? :)
[09:34] <Keybuk> and even things like gnome-su
[09:34] <wasabi> Synaptic ignores my theme setting... which worries me.
[09:34] <Keybuk> synaptic, not sure
[09:34] <Keybuk> if it's ignoring theme settings, that's a hint of a different user
[09:35] <Keybuk> actually, don't know if that's how gst works
[09:35] <Keybuk> but then I really don't like gst
[09:36] <wasabi> yeah g-s-t ignores themes too
[09:36] <wasabi> looks like it's just wrapped in gksu
[09:46] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[09:47] <robitaille> good morning in mailing-list-less Ubuntu-land
[09:47] <tseng> hi jdub 
[09:48] <tseng> robitaille: blamewaugh.com
[09:48] <tseng> robitaille: register now.
[09:48] <mdke> morning jdub 
[09:48] <tseng> its right next to blamestoner.com
[09:49] <robitaille> it's so quiet today... I actually caught up on all my e-mails.
[09:49] <jdub> robitaille: what's happening?
[09:49] <jdub> you're getting errors from the listserv, or did elmo start moving them?
[09:50] <mdke> just no mail coming through for some lists
[09:50] <mdke> if they are being moved, that would explain it
[09:53] <Treenaks> jdub: BOFH-style? :)
[09:54] <jdub> no
[09:54] <jdub> i don't know half the people who use this machine
[09:54] <jdub> so i have to be extremely careful
[09:54] <jdub> and unBOFH
[09:54] <Treenaks> hm, good point
[09:56] <Keybuk> aren't we supposed to have our own mailserver by now? ;p
[09:57] <robitaille> jdub,  according to the ubuntu-devel logs from a few hours ago, sabdfl knows about it...something about a disk full for the listserver computer
[09:58] <jdub> yeah
[09:59] <lsuactiafner> does sabdfl mean anything specific to him? cant figure it out
[09:59] <Keybuk> Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life
[09:59] <tseng> or south african
[09:59] <lsuactiafner> rofl
[09:59] <tseng> if you like acronym overloading
[10:00] <lsuactiafner> no if SA was south-african it will prolly be the next several presidents..
[10:00] <lsuactiafner> funny nickname its cool
[10:00] <jdub> elmo: ping
[10:00] <mjg59> Hm. hal-device-manager is giving me "bus instance has no attribute get_service"
[10:01] <mjg59> And networkmanager isn't finding any devices, which I assume is connected
[10:01] <robitaille> jdub,  was the listserver move planned for soon?
[10:01] <jdub> robitaille: very soon, hopefully last week, but elmo and i had a hard time syncing up :)
[10:04] <tseng> ah 2.6.12
[10:04] <tseng> about time
[10:04] <mjg59> Anyone here on Breezy?
[10:04] <mjg59> If so, does your hal-device-manager contain anything other than the acpi devices?
[10:04] <mjg59> (assuming gnome-power is installed)
[10:05] <Keybuk> still have devices in hal
[10:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: Have you restarted dbus?
[10:06] <Keybuk> no
[10:06] <mjg59> Can you do that and retry?
[10:07] <mjg59> Grah
[10:09] <jdub> hrm, prefs ui is a bit bong
[10:09] <jdub> haha
[10:10] <mjg59> jdub: for gnome-power?
[10:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[10:10] <mjg59> There's various bits that need to be stripped out
[10:10] <jdub> and has so much more stuff when gnome-power-manager is actually running ;)
[10:10] <jdub> and mine displays two batteries
[10:10] <mjg59> Do you have two batteries?
[10:11] <jdub> i *can* have two batterie
[10:11] <jdub> s
[10:11] <jdub> and proc/hal says stuff about both
[10:11] <jdub> hrm
[10:12] <jdub> $ cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT1/state
[10:12] <jdub> present:                 yes
[10:12] <jdub> capacity state:          ok
[10:12] <jdub> charging state:          charged
[10:12] <jdub> present rate:            0 mA
[10:12] <jdub> remaining capacity:      1348 mAh
[10:12] <jdub> present voltage:         16614 mV
[10:12] <jdub> 
[10:12] <jdub> $ cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT2/state
[10:12] <jdub> present:                 yes
[10:12] <jdub> capacity state:          ok
[10:12] <jdub> charging state:          charged
[10:12] <jdub> present rate:            unknown
[10:12] <jdub> remaining capacity:      unknown
[10:12] <jdub> present voltage:         unknown
[10:12] <jdub> 
[10:12] <jdub> bong
[10:13] <nbm> I'd be happy with one working battery monitor.
[10:14] <jdub> mjg59: dude, what's the userlinux status?
[10:14] <mjg59> The userlinux status is that Bruce Perens needs to get a life
[10:15] <mjg59> More seriously, Bruce has been pissing about with the LMI and there's no sign of a release
[10:15] <tseng> he does it for love, you have to give him credit. and who wouldnt love their aunt tilly?
[10:15] <mjg59> I don't want Bruce's love
[10:15] <mjg59> It's deviant
[10:16] <tseng> (his take on average users + linux is hilarity)
[10:16] <tseng> he should meet Tim from UDU and get a dose of clue
[10:17] <mjg59> Aunt Tillie was ESR rather than Bruce
[10:17] <Keybuk> mjg59: well, restarting dbus crashed the computer
[10:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: Cool!
[10:17] <tseng> oh damn i got my oss-luminaries-as-buzzwords mixed
[10:17] <Keybuk> and on reboot, network-manager fucked up (shock)
[10:18] <Keybuk> but hal-device-manager had devices int
[10:18] <Keybuk> in it
[10:18] <jdub> n-m is a bit patns
[10:19] <mjg59> It's a bit pants, but it's TEH FUTAR
[10:19] <robertj> mlg59: what's the LMI?
[10:19] <mjg59> Linux Mark Institute
[10:19] <mjg59> The people who are supposed to deal with handing out Linux trademark licenses
[10:19] <robertj> ohhhh
[10:20] <robertj> hehe, you think thats sad? I spent an hour today mocking up changes for a the Connect to Server dialog that I don't have the skills to implement :(
[10:22] <robertj> (I also found out Gazpacho will crash if attempting to save to a directory it doesn't have enough permissions to acccess)
[10:23] <jdub> mjg59: he reckoned they were ok with it
[10:23] <jdub> mjg59: more likely his new job doesn't give him time to work on it :)
[10:24] <mjg59> Argh I need a new keyboard
[10:24] <robertj> mjg59: if you don't mind ergonomics I recommend the MS Naturals'
[10:24] <robertj> they are pretty cheap and are... well, ergonomic
[10:24] <mjg59> robertj: Yeah, but it won't fit my laptop terribly well...
[10:25] <robertj> mjg59: oh, that's a bummer
[10:25] <mjg59> I broke the left shift key, which is a bit pants
[10:25] <robertj> I'm about to sell my old laptop, so I may buy a new one soon
[10:25] <mjg59> Someone's ebaying a French one, though, so that's a possibility
[10:26] <robertj> is it possible to get the iso images of the hp ubuntu cds?
[10:27] <robertj> are they anything special or will they just be standard Breezy images?
[10:27] <HiddenWolf> HP as in Hewlett Packard?
[10:27] <robertj> yeah
[10:28] <HiddenWolf> They're shipping ubuntu?
[10:28] <robertj> err, vaguely
[10:28] <Keybuk> in a wishy-washy kind of way
[10:28] <robertj> from what I understand, if your in eastern europe, africa, or the middle east you can request they send you a cd
[10:28] <Keybuk> they'll ship you Ubuntu for certain laptops if you ask
[10:28] <Keybuk> and live in the right place
[10:29] <robertj> but are they standard cds?
[10:29] <tseng> it was mentitoned something about extra drivers
[10:29] <tseng> in the paraphrased press releases
[10:29] <sivang> Shipping ubuntu as part of their desktop OS ?
[10:29] <tseng> i mean... technical news sites
[10:29] <sivang> or for laptops?
[10:29] <robertj> sivang: laptops
[10:30] <sivang> robertj: woooo cool
[10:30] <Keybuk> 6xxx series
[10:30] <sivang> When is this scheduled?
[10:32] <mjg59> It's lightly modified
[10:32] <robertj> mjg59: will we be able to get isos if we get ahold of a matching laptop?
[10:32] <mjg59> robertj: I'm not sure, I'm afraid
[10:33] <mjg59> It's all GPLed, so there's certainly nothing stopping you getting a copy off someone who already has a copy
[10:33] <robertj> so no non-free drivers then
[10:38] <lamont__> mjg59: are all the tweaks for the nc6000 et al in breezy then?
[10:42] <mjg59> lamont__: Not entirely
[10:42] <lamont__> ok
[10:43] <ogra> mjg59, we'll have a new upstream version of gnome-power next week, richard huges just mailed me very sweet screenshots
[10:43] <mjg59> Cool
[10:44] <ogra> the hibernate and sleep commands are now set in gconf keys, so we just have to modify these for pmi and thats it :)
[10:44] <mjg59> Cool
[10:44] <sivang> ogra: cool, 'sup?
[10:44] <mjg59> ogra: Any idea why I might only be getting ACPI devices in hal-device-manager?
[10:45] <ogra> mjg59, nope... i have no apm machine around....
[10:45] <mjg59> Mm? This is with ACPI
[10:45] <mjg59> If I run hal-device-manager, I /only/ get the ACPI devices
[10:45] <mjg59> No PCI ones
[10:45] <ogra> oh
[10:45] <ogra> mine looks ok
[10:47] <mjg59> I'm upgrading to current Breezy now, I'll see if it's still doing it
[10:53] <jdub> why would wget get a 403 attempting to get a page on the ubuntu wiki?
[10:53] <jdub> ie:
[10:53] <jdub> wget -O- "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide?action=raw"
[10:54] <jdub> it's not like you have to be logged in
[10:54] <mdke> dunno
[10:54] <mdke> permissions?
[10:54] <mdke> they will probably be able to tell ya in #moin
[10:54] <mdke> they are good
[10:55] <jdub> we're molesting it in unpredictableish ways
[10:55] <schweeb> jdub: not loading for me either
[10:55] <mdke> jdub, molesting?
[10:55] <jdub> schweeb: with wget? but works for browser?
[10:56] <schweeb> on, not in browser... either that or it's extremely slow
[10:56] <schweeb> s/on/no/
[10:56] <jdub> oh
[10:56] <mdke> i get it in browser
[10:56] <schweeb> man, I love this new laptop
[10:56] <schweeb> gotta upgrade to breezy now
[10:56] <jdub> your laptop must be slow ;)
[10:57] <schweeb> h4n
[10:57] <schweeb> it's an IBM X41 ;)
[10:57] <mdke> jdub, honest, try #moin
[10:58] <jdub> i'll talk to them when i'm happy it's not us
[10:58] <mdke> jdub, even if its us, they might be able to tell you
[10:58] <mdke> but fair enough
[10:58] <schweeb> ah, works fine for me now
[10:58] <schweeb> for some reason the SSL cert stuff didn't get focus
[10:59] <schweeb> I get 403 with wget as well...
[10:59] <schweeb> bleh
[11:00] <schweeb> you have access to the apache logs, jdub?
[11:00] <schweeb> (I realize they'll be HUGE)
[11:01] <jdub> nup
[11:01] <schweeb> http://pastebin.arslinux.com/2011
[11:02] <schweeb> that's what I get with --debug
[11:02] <schweeb> nothing real useful
[11:02] <schweeb> could it be a user agent thing? or a cookie thing?
[11:02] <sivang> hmm, seb128 already went to sleep?
[11:03] <jdub> schweeb: either would make me cross ;)
[11:03] <mdke> same happens on the moin base wiki
[11:03] <schweeb> jdub: indeed
[11:03] <mdke> wget -O- "http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RecentChanges?action=raw"
[11:03] <schweeb> I'm guessing a user agent thing
[11:03] <schweeb> lemme get a user agent string to test
[11:04] <jdub> pity i can't do ssl with nc (which is what i was using before https)
[11:04] <jdub> maybe moin kills wget
[11:04] <mdke> wget -O- "http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpContents?action=raw"
[11:04] <mdke> ditto
[11:04] <jdub> jesus
[11:04] <jdub> wget -O- -U "me" "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide?action=raw"
[11:05] <jdub> ^ fine
[11:05] <schweeb> yep, user agent
[11:05] <schweeb> worked with IE6's user agent for me
[11:05] <schweeb> that's wonderful.
[11:05] <mdke> :)
[11:05] <jdub> so much bong
[11:11] <Keybuk> I thought you liked the bong?
[11:11] <lsuactiafner> omg this is funny  CTCP PING reply from lsuactiafner: 793.311 seconds
[11:52] <tseng> mjg59: it stomps on ipw2200 also
[11:52] <mjg59> It's your fucking birthday
[11:52] <mjg59> tseng: Should only happen in 2.6.12
[11:53] <tseng> but, i think that one explodes by itself
[11:53] <tseng> yeah probably a less annoying bug here
[11:53] <tseng> it occassionally just gives up the ghost or jumps in and out
[11:54] <mjg59> Oh man now X is broken
[11:57] <mjg59> So, what's the story with making X work today?
[12:00] <jdub> mjg59: what kind of b0rk do you have?
[12:00] <jdub> current X seems fine
[12:00] <mjg59> No fonts
[12:01] <mjg59> Ah, missing symlink from /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc to /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc