[12:10] <squinn> mdke, how are those minutes coming ^^? lol
[12:11] <squinn> Oh, up, cool.
[12:12] <JonA> squinn: On the mainling list, or online?
[12:12] <JonA> *mailing
[12:12] <squinn> Online, JonA.
[12:13] <JonA> squinn: Thanks.
[12:14] <squinn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary5
[12:14] <squinn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeeting20050616 as well
[12:18] <squinn> Welcome back, Seveas.
[12:18] <Seveas> ty
[12:30] <mdke> ooh is the list back?
[12:30] <mdke> on
[12:30] <mdke> damn, still nothing
[12:31] <Seveas> was just gonna say it ;)
[12:31] <Seveas> what's up with the lists anyway?
[12:31] <mdke> how are ya Seveas 
[12:31] <Seveas> not too bad
[12:32] <Seveas> been manually compiling C code today (and that means manually writing assembly crap)
[12:32] <Seveas> so i'm kinda cooked :)
[12:32] <mdke> *grins*
[12:34] <squinn> mdke, sorry I had to leave meeting. I can volunteer for some projects..if I'm neeed.
[12:34] <squinn> needed.*
[12:35] <mdke> squinn, that is cool. Check out the docteam wiki pages and the archive see what interests you
[12:35] <mdke> hi burgs
[12:35] <Burgundavia> salut
[12:36] <Burgundavia> anyone else got got by NMs cute little bug?
[12:36] <mdke> sup?
[12:38] <squinn> mdke: In general, I'd be looking at a GNOME Project. Right now, '
[12:38] <squinn> I'm over-abundant on time, so I'm not in a crunch*
[12:43] <mdke> squinn, great
[12:44] <squinn> mdke, I also just added Install Guide to DocTeam Projects.
[12:44] <squinn> Tenatively, I put No Info Page, No Status Page, and No Preview.
[12:45] <mdke> ok i see it
[12:45] <mdke> cool thanks
[12:45] <squinn> Not a problem.
[12:49] <squinn> mdke, question
[12:50] <squinn> wait, maybe nevermind
[12:53] <squinn> mdke, is there a way i can subscribe to all bugs assigned to ubuntu-doc?
[01:24] <mdke> squinn, to be honest we don't tend to use bugs much
[01:27] <JonA> mdke: Are you free for me to ask some questions about the GNOME docs?
[01:30] <mdke> gimme a bit
[01:30] <mdke> JonA, just need to tidy something up
[01:30] <mdke> JonA, gonna be around in 15?
[01:30] <JonA> No rush :-)
[01:30] <JonA> mdke: Yeah.
[01:30] <mdke> what time zone is wales in?
[01:30] <mdke> :p
[01:36] <JonA> GMT, so it's 12:36 am here :-)
[01:43] <mdke> here I am!
[01:44] <mdke> JonA, i'll try and answer your questions, but I am no expert
[01:46] <squinn> JonA? 
[01:46] <JonA> mdke: They're not really technical questions :-) I was just wondering what would be the best way to go about tackling the GNOME guide. Are there any sections which are flagged for revision, or is there a general consensus (which I've missed) of how it needs to be updated?
[01:46] <JonA> squinn: Yo?
[01:46] <mdke> JonA, the userguide or quickguide?
[01:48] <mdke> for the userguide, essentially the thing is pretty disorganised, there are lots of sections that haven't been written, and others that need revision
[01:48] <JonA> The userguide.
[01:48] <mdke> for the quickguide, since it was shipped for hoary, its a question of updating, and no plan has yet been done (to my knowledge) about that
[01:48] <mdke> aha
[01:48] <JonA> Should I just grep around for authorblurb sections and see what I find?
[01:49] <mdke> JonA, if you feel up to starting to write sections that are not yet done at all, that would be awesome
[01:50] <mdke> JonA, ideally sections get marked with "done/to revise" etc but the problem is that different authors have different ideas about when that stage is reached ;)
[01:50] <mdke> the userguide is so young right now that i don't think we need to worry too much
[01:50] <mdke> it ALL needs revision ;)
[01:50] <mdke> in general, the earlier sections are better done than the later ones
[01:51] <JonA> mdke: Right, I guess I'll have a stab at some of the sections which haven't been started.
[01:51] <mdke> that would be awesome
[01:51] <mdke> JonA, couple of things to bear in mind are that there is plenty of info to draw on in the wiki/forums, and that the user target of the guide is beginner
[01:52] <mdke> otherwise, run amok
[01:52] <mdke> JonA, you can open the xml files in yelp to read through what is already there
[01:52] <JonA> Okay, well, I'll try to write a couple of sections tomorrow and get a patch up. If I'm doing anything terribly wrong, I'll find out early.
[01:52] <mdke> yep
[01:53] <mdke> if you follow the basic procedure you won't go wrong
[01:53] <JonA> mdke: Yeah, I've checked it all out and I've been playing about, seems simple enough.
[01:53] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository is good
[01:54] <mdke> if you validate and check your work visually as described there, you are good to go
[01:54] <squinn> mdke, I think I'll work [lead if needed]  on the About Ubuntu page
[01:55] <mdke> squinn, cool
[01:55] <mdke> hopefully not a lot will change for breezy so that document will just need updating
[01:58] <mdke> when the mailing list is sorted we can start organising that stuff
[01:59] <mdke> hi gepatino 
[01:59] <gepatino> hi
[01:59] <gepatino> just looking
[01:59] <mdke> welcome :D
[02:00] <gepatino> i'd like to help somehow in the ubuntu project
[02:00] <mdke> cool!
[02:00] <gepatino> right now i dont have much time
[02:01] <gepatino> but i'd like to know what options do i have to help
[02:02] <mdke> ooh lots of things
[02:02] <mdke> you can contribute to the documentation writing project in our archive or on the wiki, or help people on the forums, or help people here in irc in #ubuntu
[02:03] <mdke> or on the mailing list
[02:03] <gepatino> i've been helping with translations into spanish (my primary language)
[02:03] <mdke> thats another great way
[02:03] <gepatino> but it's almost anything already translated :)
[02:04] <mdke> do you work with the spanish locoteam to get translations done?
[02:05] <gepatino> no, i've just entered in the rosetta site and translate when i have some free time
[02:05] <mdke> before breezy there will be lots of documentation to be translated :)
[02:05] <mdke> ah good idea
[02:05] <gepatino> mmm sounds good
[02:05] <mdke> gepatino, some of our existing documentation is in rosetta
[02:07] <mdke> but hopefully lots more will be for Breezy
[02:08] <gepatino> should i belong to the spanish translation group to make my stranslations effective?
[02:09] <gepatino> i've applied to that group, by haven't got any answer yet
[02:09] <mdke> no no
[02:09] <mdke> all translations in rosetta are effective
[02:10] <gepatino> ok, i'll take a look again in rosseta
[02:11] <gepatino> thanks for your time
[02:11] <mdke> any time
[02:11] <gepatino> see you
[02:11] <mdke> yeah
[02:11] <mdke> bye!
[02:23] <mdke> night all
[08:22] <gtaylor> howdy
[08:34] <froud> African greetings
[08:44] <robitaille> Canadian Greetings
[08:46] <robitaille> a lot of interesting discussions on the channel in the last 24 hours.  I finally went throught the backlogs earlier today
[08:46] <froud> Ah yes
[08:46] <froud> very interesting
[08:46] <froud> how do you feel about them?
[08:47] <froud> Its ok if you think I am totally out of wack, honest
[08:47] <froud> morn gtaylor 
[08:48] <froud> morn JonA 
[08:48] <froud> Burgundavia: 
[08:48] <robitaille> personally I think it makes sense to do everytnig in xml, and from that source produce in whatever format is needed for packaging.
[08:49] <froud> Hmm is lists.u.c is still not working
[08:49] <froud> robitaille: OK
[08:49] <robitaille> still down.   It's getting a bit annoying.  They filled up a hard drive many hours ago; I wonder why it hasn't been cleared yet
[08:50] <froud> I guess it takes time
[08:50] <robitaille> Maybe they will rush in the transition to the new lists.ubuntu.com that was supposed to be done shortly anyway.
[08:50] <froud> maybe
[08:50] <robitaille> system problems often occurs on Friday nights :)
[08:51] <froud> I see the logs are also stuck
[08:51] <froud> yeah, typical
[08:51] <froud> robitaille: are you now setup and ready for work? I cant remember
[08:53] <robitaille> yes.  I just haven't found the time yet.  But I have been pulling in updated stuff from the repo from time to time to look at them.  So I'm all setup; I just need to get myself in gear to do something :)
[08:53] <froud> :-) yeah
[08:53] <froud> sometimes that can take time
[08:53] <froud> we need you to do a few god patches
[08:53] <froud> good
[08:54] <froud> then we can get you a commit account
[08:54] <robitaille> And I still want to sit down to read that Docbook Guide you sent earlier.
[08:54] <froud> Which Bob Staytons book?
[08:54] <robitaille> yes
[08:54] <froud> Oh most excellent
[08:55] <froud> I think everybody on the team should read it
[08:55] <froud> but its a big book, lots to undersatnd
[08:55] <froud> Bokker tov sivang 
[08:56] <froud> robitaille: but that should notstop you from writing
[08:56] <froud> if you know what it is you want to write that is:-)
[08:57] <robitaille> I know.  The guide is for my personal learning enjoyment.  I had no idea about all these documentation things only a few weeks ago;  and I have been working with computers for years.
[08:57] <froud> JonA: if you have time I can help you get setup
[08:58] <robitaille> Once I have a good knowledge base, I want to push a more organized way of doing docs at my workplace.
[08:58] <froud> yeah, docbook is a blessing and a curse all the same
[08:59] <froud> robitaille: workplace
[09:02] <robitaille> I'm back (one of my kid got up).  Yes; I work for a research group of the Canadian government, and ours docs are a bit disorganized; some done in text, some done with latex, some with framemaker
[09:02] <robitaille> and some in html
[09:03] <froud> Ah yes I remember now :-)
[09:04] <_froud> argh split
[09:04] <robitaille> we're small enough (~25 staff) that it should be easy to steer the few of us who need to write things in a certain direction..thus the docbook reading
[09:05] <froud> yeah, It can work well for the technical docs
[01:36] <JonA> froud: Morning. I've pretty much got myself set up, I think. I've checked out the tree, and I've been playing with making some edits and patches.
[02:38] <mdke> email is now trickling in slowly
[03:58] <mdke> squinn, around?
[05:07] <squinn> yep, mdke 
[05:07] <squinn> or..i wasn't lol
[06:10] <mdke> squinn, np i replied on the list
[06:23] <robitaille> mdke,  to answer your question in your email about the minutes to the last doc meeting and where they should be sent, you should just ask mako to give you access to -news.  He did that semi-recently with dholbach for the MOTO reports. 
[06:23] <mdke> robitaille, i mentioned it to him yesterday, i'm not sure if he is gonna post it himself
[06:25] <robitaille> maybe this time...but in the future you probably want to do it yourself.  He is so busy, it's probably the best way for the emails to be sent in a timely manner
[06:25] <mdke> yes
[06:25] <mdke> I would have thought he would say that
[06:25] <mdke> we'll see what he thinks
[06:26] <robitaille> and of course all these reports will one day be available on "The Fridge" :)
[06:27] <mdke> hmm
[06:27] <mdke> i need to check that out
[06:27] <mdke> is there a testing project? or just the spec
[06:33] <robitaille> it's still mostly a spec.  jdub has a live site going on his own server, but it's still pretty basic, and a work in progress.
[06:33] <robitaille> it's nice to finally have e-mails back from the lists :)
[06:34] <mdke> have you got a url for it?
[06:34] <jdub> if you post to -news, mako or i will moderate it through
[06:34] <jdub> mdke: it's not public yet
[06:34] <mdke> jdub, ok cool
[06:35] <mdke> jdub, is -news the appropriate list?
[06:35] <jdub> sure
[06:36] <mdke> ok
[06:36] <mdke> thanks :)
[07:54] <squinn> mdke, I'm here.
[07:55] <mdke> squinn, hi
[07:55] <squinn> hey
[08:08] <squinn> mdke, you were looking for me earlier/
[08:09] <mdke> squinn, yes, I replied on the list :)
[08:11] <squinn> ah, ok, lemme take a look
[08:17] <buzzle> hey everyone
[08:18] <squinn> Hey buzzle 
[08:18] <buzzle> im having trouble connecting to my lan in ubuntu
[08:19] <buzzle> suggestions?
[08:19] <buzzle> using wireless
[08:22] <squinn> hm
[08:22] <squinn> i'd suggest #ubuntu
[08:22] <squinn> but h/o a sec
[08:22] <buzzle> just found it
[08:22] <buzzle> thank you
[08:23] <squinn> oh ok 
[08:23] <squinn> enjoy buzzle 
[08:23] <buzzle> thank you :] 
[08:24] <squinn> yeah, be specific'
[08:24] <squinn> what card..what drivers..that kinda stuff
[08:24] <buzzle> i see
[08:24] <squinn> buzzle, because some one who has no idea of the card can't give help
[08:25] <buzzle> i guess i was looking for basic set up info to start with
[08:25] <buzzle> its not so much that my card is being an issue yet, as i cant figure out a basic set up to even see
[08:25] <squinn> ah ok
[08:25] <squinn> mdke, i don't see it?
[08:25] <squinn> i did get two messages from ubuntu-doc thouhg
[08:26] <squinn> ubuntu-doc-bounces ?!
[08:33] <froud> Hmmm, where can I post a document on the xml or html debate?
[08:34] <mdke> froud, mailing list
[08:35] <mdke> squinn, are you subscribed to the mailing list?
[08:35] <froud> is it working
[08:35] <mdke> yes
[08:36] <mdke> squinn, its definitely there (http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-June/002583.html). perhaps you are not subscribed
[08:37] <mdke> froud, it is definitely working
[08:37] <froud> yes I just tested, thanks
[08:43] <gtaylor> aroo
[08:44] <squinn> I saw it finally, mdke.
[08:45] <squinn> On web..thanks.
[08:45] <squinn> Here comes my confirmation email from mailing list.
[08:45] <squinn> I was subscribed, but not approved yet, I believe.
[08:47] <squinn> mdke, thanks i'm fixing patch now
[08:47] <gtaylor> Looks like things have been busy this weekend
[08:50] <squinn> gtaylor, yeah. yesterday, seemed like lists were off or i just didn't get them
[08:50] <squinn> so i'm extra busy now
[08:50] <mdke> lists were down yesterday
[08:51] <mdke> hey gtaylor 
[08:51] <squinn> mdke, question
[08:52] <squinn> is it possible to have all mail previously [for example: all conversations in the month of june]  sent to list sent to my inbox?
[08:53] <mdke> not as emails, but you can get them in a news reader
[08:53] <mdke> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/
[08:53] <squinn> ah okay
[08:54] <mdke> or can you just view them in a browser from that link
[08:54] <squinn> right ok
[08:54] <squinn> like how i read your mail
[09:02] <squinn> mdke, proofread the patch, sending now
[09:02] <mdke> cool
[09:04] <squinn> sent
[09:04] <Njal> Lo
[09:07] <squinn> hey Njal 
[09:07] <Njal> I was on here yesterday seeing how i might be able to try to help with the documentation project
[09:08] <squinn> Well, I'
[09:08] <squinn> I'm not in charge, but I think I am [hehe] 
[09:09] <squinn> What would you want to work with?
[09:09] <froud> hey Njal 
[09:09] <squinn> Again, I'm not in charge..I'm just curious.
[09:09] <Njal> froud told me that i would need setting up with the cvs system you use
[09:09] <squinn> svn
[09:09] <squinn> subversion, yes.
[09:09] <Njal> yup
[09:09] <squinn> I don't even think I've set mine up.
[09:09] <Njal> i presume i apt-get it?
[09:09] <squinn> Unless that's StepByStep thing was setting it up
[09:09] <squinn> apt-get install subversion does the binaries yes
[09:10] <froud> Njal: read this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[09:11] <squinn> Oh, I did set it up then. :D
[09:11] <squinn> hey, froud, can you do me a favor?
[09:12] <froud> yep
[09:12] <squinn> proofread the patch i just sent out on list
[09:12] <froud> Njal: you should install xsltproc
[09:12] <froud> will do, was it applied
[09:12] <squinn> no
[09:12] <squinn> mdke said it was pretty much there, just had to change a few things
[09:12] <froud> Ok
[09:13] <squinn> I'm with Njal as well, in the n00b boat.
[09:13] <froud> Ok will look at it
[09:14] <squinn> Thanks froud
[09:14] <froud> squinn: Njal: hav eyou both installed xsltproc
[09:14] <froud> you also need to ensure docbook is installed
[09:15] <froud> as well as docbook-xsl
[09:15] <squinn> yes, all three installed here
[09:15] <froud> install also poxml from kdesdk
[09:15] <squinn> ironically, just installed docbook-xsl..and okay
[09:16] <froud> see also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForTheHasty
[09:18] <squinn> there, froud 
[09:18] <froud> yes
[09:18] <froud> just about to read your patch
[09:20] <squinn> ok
[09:20] <squinn> welcome back Njal 
[09:20] <Njal> thanks net just died for some reason
[09:21] <Njal> ok subvesion is now installed
[09:22] <Njal> subversion
[09:23] <Njal> how do i use it? Never had to use a versioning system before
[09:23] <mdke> the instructions on the wiki page froud posted should help a lot
[09:23] <Njal> kk
[09:36] <froud> squinn: patch applied
[09:36] <froud> thanks
[09:37] <froud> squinn: did you ask questions about LearnLinux?
[09:38] <squinn> No.
[09:38] <squinn> That's another Sean
[09:38] <squinn> I'm Sean D. Quinn
[09:38] <squinn> There's some Sean C. something
[09:38] <froud> sorry we now have three Seans, me included
[09:38] <squinn> Yep.
[09:42] <squinn> froud, I don't understand the second message I was supposed to /ignore
[09:42] <froud> yes I fix the things in the first patch
[09:42] <froud> and applied &kubuntu-download; and refer to main
[09:47] <squinn> ah ok works better 
[09:47] <squinn> thanks 
[09:48] <froud> np
[09:48] <froud> squinn: what are you going to work on?
[09:50] <froud> Njal: how's it going
[09:50] <Njal> finally back
[09:51] <Njal> good
[09:51] <froud> how far did you get
[09:51] <Njal> I got subversion installed
[09:51] <froud> ok
[09:51] <froud> di you get a checkout
[09:51] <Njal> I was also pointed to the wiki for further instruction
[09:52] <froud> ok
[09:52] <froud> you want to go through it
[09:53] <Njal> yes as im still not quite sure how to use a versioning system
[09:53] <froud> ok in your home dir do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos ubuntu-doc
[09:54] <froud> hold
[09:54] <froud> in your home dir do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
[09:54] <froud> this will create a directory called ubuntu-doc/
[09:54] <Njal> it didn't
[09:55] <froud> it will add a working copy of the files in trunk to this folder
[09:55] <Njal> oh wait
[09:55] <froud> give it time
[09:55] <froud> the first checkout is big
[09:55] <Njal> it was asking me to accept something like a cookie that's why i didn't see it doing anything
[09:55] <Njal> it wasn't a cookie
[09:55] <froud> are you in a shell session
[09:55] <Njal> yes
[09:56] <Njal> bash
[09:56] <froud> ok select to permanently add it
[09:56] <Njal> I did do, it was a case of not reading something carefully
[09:56] <froud> ok
[09:56] <froud> give it a minute and you will see may lines starting with A
[09:57] <Njal> MMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY is right
[09:57] <froud> OK that is the working copy downloading to the ubuntu-doc folder
[09:57] <Njal> lotsa .pngs though
[09:57] <froud> yes
[09:58] <Njal> So lemmie just get my heard around this
[09:58] <Njal> head
[09:58] <froud> ok
[09:59] <froud> what you are copying to your disk is a copy of the code we all collaborate on
[09:59] <Njal> I am downloading everything that has ever been done on the documentation project, and like all other versioning systems only one person can work on one file at any one time?
[09:59] <froud> not quite
[09:59] <Njal> ok
[09:59] <froud> you are copying the HEAD version
[09:59] <Njal> Whats that then?
[09:59] <froud> that is the current revision
[10:00] <Njal> ok
[10:00] <froud> each of us has a copy
[10:00] <froud> we hack our local copies
[10:00] <froud> then we upload to the repository
[10:00] <froud> if you have a commit account then you do this directly using the svn commit command
[10:01] <froud> if you dont then you create a patch
[10:01] <Njal> Ok am lost now
[10:01] <froud> and send it to our mailing list
[10:01] <froud> Ok where did I lose your
[10:01] <froud> you
[10:01] <Njal> the commit account bit
[10:01] <froud> OK you dont have one at present
[10:01] <Njal> no
[10:02] <froud> but if you are serious and give us a few patches we will arrange an account for you
[10:02] <froud> until then you will be expected to create patches
[10:02] <froud> I will lead you through this procedure
[10:02] <froud> when the checkout is complete
[10:03] <froud> I will also show you how to update your working copy or sync it with the repos
[10:03] <Njal> Ok so if i submit enough work to make it worthwhile giving me an account i get one, until then i just submit, the hacked local copies via email?
[10:03] <froud> yes
[10:03] <Njal> ok it's starting to make sense
[10:03] <froud> how's that checkout doing, is it finished
[10:04] <Njal> not yet
[10:04] <Njal> onto the gnome stuff now
[10:04] <froud> OK
[10:04] <Njal> How do i edit these local copies?
[10:04] <froud> I will explain it
[10:04] <Njal> ... in good time :P
[10:04] <Njal> Ok best way really
[10:05] <froud> I take it you are new to this and have also never used docbook
[10:05] <froud> but dont worry
[10:05] <froud> its easier than it sounds
[10:05] <froud> just takes the will from you to learn it
[10:05] <Njal> yes, this is all very new to me, to be honest i think i am trying to find my place in the community
[10:05] <froud> what is your background
[10:06] <Njal> i have just finished a Diploma in IT practitoners (software dev), and am going on to learn networking/networked programing (software dev and deployment accross networks)
[10:07] <Njal> But
[10:07] <froud> anyone can contribute to the docs, but knowing their background can help us in pointing you to work
[10:07] <Njal> I'm not that good at programming yet
[10:07] <froud> Ok so you have technical knowledge
[10:07] <froud> hows your knowledge of Linux
[10:08] <Njal> Historically i think it's reasonably good, but the working of it, getting there, still trying to learn how to recompile a kernel, just for the experience
[10:08] <froud> I think you will do just fine
[10:09] <Njal> thanks
[10:09] <froud> doing docs is a great way to learn
[10:09] <froud> I think we are all learning in one way or another
[10:09] <Njal> I can see how it would be
[10:09] <Njal> The more i learn the more i realise i know nothing
[10:10] <froud> :-) yeah
[10:10] <Njal> Checked out revision 1184.
[10:10] <froud> beautiful
[10:10] <froud> ok just gimme a sec b 4 we go on
[10:10] <Njal> sure thing
[10:12] <froud> Ok have you subscribed to the commit list?
[10:12] <froud> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits
[10:13] <froud> Njal: ?
[10:13] <Njal> not yet am going there now
[10:14] <froud> Ok let me know when you have confirmed your subscription
[10:15] <Njal> is this a mailing list... of sorts?
[10:15] <froud> yes
[10:16] <froud> each time one of the members with a commit account adds something to the repos it will send out an email message
[10:16] <froud> you never post to this list, only get stuff from it
[10:16] <froud> you will see what I mean once you have subscribed
[10:16] <froud> have you?
[10:17] <froud> let me know when done, I need to know so I can demo for you
[10:18] <Njal> i am now subscribed
[10:18] <froud> you confirmed your subscription?
[10:18] <Njal> yup
[10:19] <froud> ok I am now going to make a commit
[10:19] <froud> I am just commenting out a peice of code that is not critical
[10:20] <froud> OK I did the commit. Refresh your mail client
[10:20] <Njal> Modified:
[10:20] <Njal>    trunk/kde/kquickguide/C/kquickguide.xml
[10:20] <froud> OK that message shows you what ws changed
[10:21] <froud> this list is useful because it lets you know when things change in the repos
[10:21] <froud> when someting changes in the repos you must update your working copy
[10:21] <froud> so
[10:21] <froud> are you in your home dir?
[10:21] <froud> if not do cd ~
[10:21] <froud> then do cd ubuntu-doc
[10:22] <froud> now issue the command svn up
[10:23] <Njal> yup sync'd
[10:23] <froud> Ok now you know how to get updates from the repos
[10:23] <Njal> just svn up?
[10:23] <Njal> when i get an email?
[10:23] <froud> yep
[10:23] <froud> yep
[10:23] <froud> easy
[10:23] <Njal> ok i think i can manage that
[10:23] <froud> right next
[10:24] <Njal> yes?
[10:24] <froud> areyou using gnome or kde?
[10:24] <Njal> gnome
[10:24] <froud> OK I want you to now edit a file
[10:24] <froud> to do this
[10:24] <Njal> yes?
[10:25] <froud> cd kde/kquickguide/C
[10:25] <froud> ls
[10:25] <froud> kquickguide.xml
[10:26] <froud> you see the file I updated
[10:26] <froud> do gedit kquickguide.xml
[10:26] <froud> This will open the file in gedit
[10:27] <froud> at the top of the file you will see this
[10:27] <Njal> yup i know that

[10:27] <froud> 		<inlinemediaobject>
[10:27] <froud> 			<imageobject>
[10:27] <froud> 				<imagedata
[10:27] <froud> 					fileref="../../images/&language;/kubuntu-final.png"
[10:27] <froud> 					format="PNG"/>
[10:27] <froud> 			</imageobject>
[10:27] <froud> 		</inlinemediaobject>
[10:27] <froud> 	</subtitle>-->
[10:27] <Njal> yes i see the bits you mean?
[10:27] <Njal> mean
[10:28] <froud> I want you to delete the <!-- at the begining and the --> at the end
[10:28] <froud> then save
[10:28] <Njal> done
[10:28] <Njal> svn commit by chance?
[10:28] <froud> Ok close gedit
[10:29] <froud> no
[10:29] <Njal> ok
[10:29] <froud> you dont have a commit account yet ;-)
[10:29] <froud> when you do then yes
[10:29] <froud> svn diff kquickguide.xml > kquickguide.xml.diff
[10:29] <froud> then ls
[10:29] <froud> ls
[10:29] <froud> kquickguide.xml  kquickguide.xml.diff
[10:30] <Njal> yup its created a diff(erences?) file?
[10:30] <froud> exactly send me that to sean@inwords.co.za
[10:30] <froud> in future however you will send it to the docteam user list
[10:31] <froud> did you send it
[10:31] <Njal> Yes
[10:31] <Njal> Just this second
[10:32] <froud> OK now when Iget it I will apply it
[10:32] <froud> and you will svn up again
[10:32] <Njal> are all the doc's in .xml?
[10:32] <froud> yes
[10:32] <froud> docbook
[10:32] <Njal> Coz i don't know xml
[10:32] <Njal> :(
[10:33] <froud> that's also OK
[10:33] <froud> you will learn
[10:33] <froud> follow the markup around you
[10:33] <froud> I will track your patches and make fixes to the sematic
[10:33] <Njal> That's the thing i don't understand much of the markup languages
[10:33] <froud> over time you will get to know it
[10:34] <froud> OK so you can do reading at http;//www.docbook.org
[10:34] <froud> and we will help you
[10:34] <froud> really it is not that hard
[10:34] <froud> ;-)
[10:35] <froud> you just edited a file and sent it to me
[10:35] <froud> now if I had applied the patch, you would get an email from the commit list
[10:35] <Njal> Yes i understand the transfer of files etc, it's xml i don't understand, i will have a look at this site though
[10:35] <froud> and you just cd to ubuntu-doc/ and do svn up
[10:36] <froud> dont worry about the xml
[10:36] <froud> you just worry about writing and do your best with the xml
[10:36] <froud> we will fix it
[10:36] <mdke> well...
[10:36] <mdke> its a good idea to learn as you go
[10:36] <Njal> Im sorry i miss the writing principle here, let me look at that edited file
[10:37] <froud> sure, take a look at the markup, it will make sense
[10:37] <mdke> Njal, but its easy, you'll pick it up by playing with the files, and checking them after you edit with the validate script and visually, as described in the wiki document
[10:37] <froud> most of the tags are natural
[10:37] <Njal> Ok so we have content, i presume that it's meant to be viewed in a webbrowser?
[10:37] <froud> Njal: mdke is right
[10:37] <froud> no
[10:38] <Njal> ok
[10:38] <froud> Njal: XML is presentation neutral
[10:38] <froud> however, I think you will find that Yelp is a good help for you at this point
[10:38] <mdke> it can be made into many things, html, pdf, or stay as it is to be viewed by certain clients
[10:38] <froud> so I would like you to do yelp kquickguide.xml
[10:38] <Njal> So
[10:39] <Njal> Xml is umm.. clay
[10:39] <Njal> that can be moulded into whatever
[10:39] <mdke> :)
[10:39] <froud> ;-) one way to see it
[10:40] <froud> Njal: did you yelp the file?
[10:40] <Njal> Yeah i really need to grasp what happening before i try anything, so we write an xml file that gets turned into a usefull file
[10:40] <Njal> no 
[10:40] <Njal> working on it
[10:40] <froud> Ok tak eyour time
[10:40] <froud> you cant break anything
[10:40] <froud> so dont be afraid of it
[10:41] <froud> and i you edit a file and think you have really botched it
[10:41] <Njal> So yelp presents the xml file in a human readable way?
[10:41] <froud> what can you do
[10:41] <froud> yes
[10:42] <froud> if you both a file then just use the revert command 'svn revert file.xml'
[10:42] <Njal> Right, i think the next few days are going te be hello world xml things
[10:42] <squinn> ah, i didn't even know that about reverting..thanks froud 
[10:42] <froud> that will return your working copy file back to the copy in svn
[10:42] <froud> squinn: np
[10:43] <squinn> froud, now that i'm back from yard work, here's my question
[10:43] <froud> Njal: but you will lose any change you made in that file
[10:43] <squinn> what can one do to find patchable things?
[10:43] <squinn> i mean, sure, i was already working on the about ubuntu guide
[10:43] <froud> Hmm, Idont understand?
[10:43] <Njal> yeah but if it's botched...
[10:43] <squinn> Njal, it goes back to the one from the web
[10:43] <froud> Njal: yes exactly
[10:44] <squinn> froud, how can I find things to patch?*
[10:44] <froud> squinn: yu mean what can you work on?
[10:44] <mdke> squinn, everything needs work
[10:44] <squinn> yeah.
[10:44] <froud> well we have breezy targets
[10:44] <squinn> i mean, that kubuntu thing came upon me while i read and was working on the About Ubuntu guide.
[10:44] <mdke> keep reading and you'll find more
[10:44] <squinn> froud, true, but those can't be svn commited until breezy's almost ready for release
[10:44] <jeffsch> user guide user guide user guide user guide :)
[10:45] <squinn> yeah, i noticed some OLD screenshots of user-guide
[10:45] <squinn> warty screenshots
[10:45] <froud> ;-) jeffsch 
[10:45] <squinn> yuck, i must update
[10:45] <mdke> jeffsch, +
[10:45] <jeffsch> howdy folks
[10:45] <Njal> Ok another analergy time
[10:45] <froud> squinn: we are working towards breezy
[10:45] <mdke> squinn, screenshots its probably better to leave until later, so we can get breezy shots
[10:45] <froud> squinn: 
[10:45] <froud> one problem
[10:45] <Njal> Im learning C, and you need the #include <stdio.h> deal 
[10:46] <squinn> i've got another question, i'll ask in a minute
[10:46] <Njal> is this <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> the xml equal
[10:46] <froud> squinn: you are most likely working with hoary
[10:46] <froud> Njal: no
[10:46] <froud> Njal: see the doc type decl
[10:46] <Njal> right
[10:46] <froud> <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" 
[10:46] <froud> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd" [
[10:47] <froud> squinn: you have hoary on your computer
[10:47] <squinn> froud, that is correct. i'm using hoary.
[10:47] <froud> squinn: the problem with that is that you can only see what is in hoary
[10:47] <froud> so, what to do
[10:48] <froud> well if you have another computer you can install hoary and then just change the sources.list to breezy repos
[10:48] <froud> and then you us ethat machine to document
[10:48] <Njal> Ok well i am going to go for tonight, i've got a fair bit to digest here
[10:48] <froud> but
[10:48] <froud> Njal: np c ya
[10:48] <Njal> bye, and thanks
[10:48] <squinn> froud, only one usable computer atm
[10:48] <froud> squinn: you can also download the prerelease ISO files
[10:49] <froud> then you use something like qemu
[10:49] <squinn> ah, good idea
[10:49] <squinn> with qemu
[10:49] <squinn> do i just...
[10:49] <froud> to emulate linux under linux
[10:49] <squinn> qemu "livecdorwhateversmartguysatcanonicaldecidetocalltheiso.iso"?
[10:49] <froud> Hmm cant remember the commands but see the qemu docs
[10:49] <squinn> okay, thanks
[10:50] <squinn> man qemu after install?
[10:50] <froud> if you get stuck I will type up a tutorial
[10:50] <squinn> okay, thanks
[10:50] <squinn> with the emulator..
[10:50] <squinn> i can't save or download anything though, right?
[10:50] <froud> squinn: the problem with that is that you must wait for prereleases
[10:50] <froud> but at least you can do your work
[10:50] <squinn> what if
[10:51] <squinn> i created some partitions for breezyt
[10:51] <froud> for the most part I think you will find that your hoary system is good enough to doucment against
[10:51] <froud> squinn: that is up to you
[10:51] <squinn> yeah, that user guide for hoary still needs work
[10:51] <froud> yes
[10:51] <froud> so you just write abook
[10:51] <froud> have fun
[10:52] <froud> use hoary if you must and as we get closer to breezy we will check it and realign it if needed
[10:52] <squinn> well, breezy's what, not until 5.10
[10:52] <froud> yes
[10:52] <squinn> it's 5.06 still right now right?
[10:53] <squinn> using ubuntu's system of numbers
[10:53] <froud> that is why I say that you can use hoary
[10:53] <squinn> right
[10:53] <froud> many things will be the same
[10:53] <mdke> but later to release it will be a good idea to use the breezy development version
[10:53] <mdke> so you can see any changes
[10:53] <froud> yes
[10:53] <froud> mdke: yes
[10:53] <squinn> at about 5.08, i think i'll upgrade
[10:54] <squinn> and right now, all cvs can take is hoary right
[10:54] <squinn> er, svn*
[10:55] <mdke> ?
[10:56] <mdke> what do you mean by "can take"?
[10:56] <squinn> um
[10:56] <squinn> all that can be handled by svn is hoary documents
[10:56] <squinn> meaning a document written for breezy could not be in svn right now, correct?
[10:59] <jeffsch> not correct. anything we work on now is for breezy release
[11:00] <squinn> okay
[11:00] <squinn> i think i'm starting to understand
[11:00] <squinn> but i could still write up say..the user guide..based on hoary..and will update for warty
[11:00] <squinn> going back in time
[11:00] <squinn> breezy*
[11:01] <jeffsch> yes. when we know better what breezy looks like, then we can make any updates/changes
[11:02] <jeffsch> it's better to have something to fix, rather than nothing at all
[11:02] <squinn> right.
[11:02] <squinn> okay, well i'm looking at the quickguide now, i see some errors already
[11:02] <squinn> this is quickguide that comes with hoary
[11:02] <squinn> not in svn
[11:03] <mdke> you have to work in svn
[11:03] <mdke> things may have already been changed
[11:03] <squinn> i know, i'm doublechecking
[11:03] <mdke> squinn, best thing is to ignore the old version
[11:05] <squinn> i am lol
[11:05] <squinn> svn much better version
[11:05] <squinn> yet something i don't like
[11:05] <squinn> [possible flood warning] 
[11:05] <squinn> The top panel contains the
[11:05] <squinn> Applications Menu
[11:05] <squinn> ,
[11:05] <squinn> System Menu
[11:05] <squinn> , and
[11:05] <squinn> Places Menu
[11:05] <squinn> and those three titles are huge and brown
[11:05] <mdke> squinn, you are free to edit
[11:05] <squinn> and it just looks very..off and unprofessional
[11:05] <jeffsch> that's yelp's fault
[11:05] <mdke> squinn, best thing is to work on it
[11:06] <squinn> ah, ok, jeffsch 
[11:06] <squinn> and alright mdke 
[11:06] <squinn> if there's a workaround, jeffsch..i'd like to at least try to find one
[11:08] <mdke> squinn, that is the least of our worries!! there is much content to sort out
[11:08] <jeffsch> the workaround is to not use xrefs with the endterm attribute
[11:08] <squinn> for example: user guide
[11:08] <squinn> ok
[11:11] <froud> hello jeffsch long time no speak
[11:11] <jeffsch> froud: howdy dude
[11:11] <froud> what you been doing
[11:12] <jeffsch> nuthin. honest. i didn't do it. or at least, it's not my fault.
[11:12] <froud> :-)
[11:12] <jeffsch> :)
[11:13] <froud> I was looking at style guide. good stuff dude
[11:13] <jeffsch> still a lotta blanks need filling though
[11:13] <froud> yep, but I am sure it will be no problem for ppl here
[11:13] <froud> just needs some time
[11:14] <jeffsch> getting them to follow it once it's done...
[11:14] <froud> Hmm, ....
[11:14] <jeffsch> maybe the doc leads, or primary contacts can be responsible for implementation
[11:15] <froud> doc leads?
[11:15] <squinn> leaders on certain doc projects
[11:16] <jeffsch> from the meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary5
[11:16] <froud> I dont think there are any yet. 
[11:16] <squinn> I intend to lead on About Ubuntu in GNOME
[11:16] <froud> mdke: " The install guide is not in the list of projects, this oversight should be corrected ASAP."
[11:16] <froud> mdke: the install guide is on th elist
[11:17] <mdke> froud, yes, because it was corrected ASAP
[11:17] <mdke> doh!
[11:17] <froud> Oh OK
[11:17] <froud> mdke: are there doc leads?
[11:18] <mdke> not yet
[11:18] <mdke> some have expressed interest
[11:18] <mdke> it needs to be decided via the ML
[11:18] <froud> yes saw that
[11:18] <mdke> listen I will be back later, am in a -it meeting right now
[11:18] <froud> ML?
[11:18] <froud> ok
[11:18] <jeffsch> ML = mailing list
[11:18] <froud> ah
[11:18] <froud> k
[11:19] <froud> Ok I am off for the night, c ya around
[11:19] <jeffsch> later
[11:21] <jeffsch> well i have to get some air... 
[11:25] <squinn> heh, i fixed the little style errors
[11:25] <squinn> took away the color, they are hyperlinks now..look a lot more professional
[11:26] <mdke> squinn, have you read the styleguide?
[11:26] <mdke> its important to have consistency throughout our documentation
[11:42] <squinn> yes, mdke i have
[11:42] <mdke> cool
[11:44] <squinn> I'm going to submit what I just worked on as a patch.
[11:45] <squinn> how was your italian meeting?
[11:45] <mdke> still going
[11:45] <squinn> ah
[11:45] <squinn> I'm going to try and become a member.
[11:46] <squinn> Probably not now..in a little bit.
[11:46] <squinn> I think about a month.
[11:47] <squinn> So, mdke do you live in Italy or just speak the language?
[11:47] <mdke> just the language
[11:48] <squinn> Ah.
[11:48] <squinn> That's awesome.
[11:48] <squinn> I know a little here and there.
[11:48] <squinn> I actually, just gotta send out this patch and head downstairs and help the mom make meatballs.
[11:49] <mdke> enjoy :)