[12:02] <\sh> ogra, but 1GB is not enough ;) [12:02] dholbach, oh, you know how it is... [12:02] dholbach, how are you? [12:02] tritium: how is life? [12:02] \sh, disk or ram ? === tritium has no life until July 22 [12:02] <\sh> ogra, ram ;) [12:02] \sh: sadly true [12:02] <\sh> ogra, diskspace is 80gb should help for a while [12:03] <\sh> plus a HD for OS and webspace == 40GB makes 120GB [12:03] so do we start the meeting ? [12:03] <\sh> ok..meeting.. [12:03] yeah [12:03] fire away [12:03] oh, its grown [12:03] ogra: please === dilinger [dilinger@mouth.voxel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:04] hi dilinger [12:04] StephanHermann: My idead ? [12:04] getting blind ? [12:04] ajmitch: hiya [12:04] :) [12:04] <\sh> yeah [12:04] <\sh> I'm old and blind [12:04] \sh, or is this a new apple service ? [12:04] haha :) [12:04] <\sh> ipet? [12:04] get your idead today [12:04] <\sh> iDead? === wasabi_ [~wasabi@207.55.180.100] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:05] 1) on the agenda is: MOTUNewPackages process - ITP handling in Debian. [12:05] hi wasabi_ [12:05] Fill in ITP (when there is no one already), go through MOTU Review and then let it be a sponsored upload from one of our DDs @ubuntu If there is already an ITP, get in contact with the maintainer, and ask him/her to help him, at least he could become a MOTU ;) [12:05] We should have Ubuntu MOTU capes made by CafePress. [12:05] thats the current proposal [12:05] i want to add something i recently learned about ITPs: [12:05] <\sh> Ok, we had this discussion quite a while now [12:05] how many DDs are available for that, since it will take some reviewing time as well? [12:06] if you file an itp in debian: it means: "i own the packaging attempt, and i will take care of it in debian" [12:06] maybe not in those words, but closely [12:06] yeps [12:06] ogra: if there is already an ITP, mail the BTS w/ a patch if ubuntu already has packages prepared. there are a *lot* of ITPs where there is no activity.. at least w/ a patch in the BTS, another DD can decide to package it based on the patch [12:06] so, that's a must have [12:06] my personal point of view is: it's an administrative device in debian [12:06] otherwise we will have conflicts [12:06] dilinger, is dholbach's assumption true ? [12:06] well, who is responsible for the package, then? [12:06] <\sh> and this is one thing, we should handle...the sponsor DD will get the help from motu for this package, because the package is put into a team [12:07] we maybe should better announce our new packages on a debian-list - maybe once a month to let them know, who they can contact to work more closely together [12:07] ogra: that is correct. you end up w/ contention situations, however; someone holds an ITP and disappears or doesn't have time to work on the package [12:07] if you don't want to file an ITP & own that package, then an RFP with a link to the ubuntu package may be more appropriate [12:07] so other people end up not packaging it either, because someone else owns it [12:07] ajmitch, that sounds good [12:07] I mean, whose name will be in the maintainer field? what happens, if someone get an upload sponsored to ubuntu, but looses interest in the package or doesn't have enough time for it? [12:07] ITP=intent to package, RFP= request for package [12:08] hm... [12:08] and the diff is? === tseng enters [12:08] siretart: probably something like Ubuntu MOTU team for ubuntu uploads [12:08] <\sh> one question to the DDs hidden in the ubuntu universe ;) [12:08] (RFP w/ a patch is even better) [12:08] ivoks: RFP is asking someone else to do the work ;) [12:08] ah :) [12:08] dilinger: yes, but not if it's a 10MB package, I think [12:08] dilinger++ [12:09] ajmitch: do you think the MOTU Team would be an accaptable maintainer for debian? [12:09] i have mailed ITP owners directly [12:09] <\sh> ajmitch, dilinger: how long does it take normally to get a package into debian, even for ITP or RFP [12:09] and offered a link to my source package [12:09] maybe we could have our DD fill all ITFs [12:09] and leave packaging to MOTU [12:09] \sh: this really depends on how quick you get a sponsor, and how quick the package is passing NEW [12:09] ivoks: then that DD is reponsible for it all, including the debian bugs [12:09] the problem is: you need somebody responsible for a) bugreports, b) uploads in debian [12:10] and those are problems, not just "problems" :) [12:10] ajmitch: true... well... thinking at loud... [12:10] siretart: team maintenance is good, they might accept that :) [12:10] \sh: it depends on how busy the ftp masters are. i've had packages go in in under 24 hours; i've also waited months for packages, during time when NEW wasn't being processed. currently, it doesn't take long; people are processing packages quickly [12:10] dholbach, but we cant do more then offering [12:10] ogra: absolutely not [12:10] \sh: it is a manual process, though, so it's very dependent upon available manpower [12:10] <\sh> and a group of people with one centralized spokesman being a maintainer? [12:10] dholbach, the rest is up to debian [12:11] ogra: but the question is, how much commitment we make [12:11] none [12:11] ogra: if we're going to define a process [12:11] this should be clarified [12:11] we just offer our work [12:11] yeah: how about a monthly mail announcing all the new source packages and our maintainers? [12:11] it think if we just offer it in an RFP we are fine... [12:12] <\sh> I mean, what's the difference between Maintainer: Stephan Hermann or Maintainer: Ubuntu-Motu-KDE-Team ? [12:12] can we script finding rfps that match a package in ubuntu? [12:12] dholbach, a newsletter to debiian-devel ? [12:12] hm... what's wrong will just filling ITFs, supplying patch and bringing package into ubuntu [12:12] dholbach: this implies that some DD gets interest in adopting the package. right? [12:12] or open itp's also [12:12] siretart: that would be a nice side-effect yes, our intention :) [12:12] \sh, it doesnt matter.... it changes if your package enters debian [12:12] ogra: i'm not talking about an automatic newsletter :) [12:12] tseng: easily [12:12] ajmitch: yes [12:12] \sh: responsibilty: in the first case, YOU are responsible, and in the latter, the responsibility is shared [12:13] do we have a volunteer to write a script that compares packages in ubuntu to open rfp and itp? [12:13] dholbach, why not ? [12:13] thats a start. [12:13] tseng: ok, I can do that [12:13] ajmitch++ [12:13] siretart: IMHO, second case is better [12:13] dholbach, as automated as your apt-get.org script was [12:13] I've already got part of that done [12:13] do we want to have to track debian bugs for our new packages? :) [12:13] ivoks: for us. but I'm not sure how debian thinks about that [12:13] dholbach: if we maintain them, we have to [12:14] dholbach, sure, but thats what we have malone for.... [12:14] dholbach: malone will be syncing them anyway [12:14] siretart: for them too, they could allways get contact from team [12:14] once malone is there :) [12:14] siretart: they would be foolish to demand single person [12:14] siretart: but, we must insure quality [12:15] ivoks: debian doesn't have problems w/ teams maintaining packages. it's the case for plenty of packages (kernel team, for example) [12:15] and zope/plone [12:15] ivoks: hm. yeah, I agree, but I also heared the argument, that if a big team is responsible for many things, in effect nothing gets done [12:15] dilinger: as i said, otherwise would be foolish [12:15] fyi the motu zope team got invited to join the debian team [12:16] siretart: MOTU is team that does the job ;) [12:16] dilinger: the difference is, that the teams inside debian are staffed with DD's === tseng joined the debian mono team [12:16] all 2 of us, that is :) [12:16] thats the ideal situation, really [12:16] siretart: not necessarily. only about half the kernel team are DDs [12:16] the rest are NMs, or about to enter NM [12:16] the more work you do in debian, the less we track as a chanset [12:16] dilinger: interesting. perhaps I'm too pessimistic [12:17] <\sh> I mean, when MOTU as team is standing behind the packages, what is the problem? internally the packages are sorted out into motu teams [12:18] hi all. sorry im late. damn traffic! [12:18] i support \sh [12:18] :) [12:18] <\sh> and when the QA process of motu is good enough to get a package into universe, it should be good for debian as well [12:18] i dont support \sh :) [12:18] in effect: Do we have DD's agreeing to sponsor MOTU Team uploads? [12:18] <\sh> stop mentioning my nick it blinks here ;) [12:18] siretart: it'll be hard work for them [12:18] \sh, ? [12:18] ok \sh [12:18] it doesn't matter, as long as there's someone to step up & do the debian work [12:18] sorry \sh [12:19] <\sh> argl [12:19] siretart: nobody should underestimate that now [12:19] :) [12:19] dholbach: yes, I'm aware of that [12:19] <\sh> ajmitch, so u have to be a DD to do the upload right? [12:19] it'd be better to have dedicated DDs working with us on specific packages [12:19] (if they're interested) [12:19] \sh: yes, just as you have to be a MOTU to upload to universe [12:19] \sh: same keyring process :) [12:19] <\sh> ajmitch, and to become a DD is a long way. [12:20] dholbach, i dont think that works well [12:20] \sh: reasonably long [12:20] <\sh> so we need already be DDs to help the teams inside motu [12:20] ogra: what exactly? [12:20] I am available to help with uploads & reviewing for debian, time permitting [12:20] doh.. [12:20] there is only few of us [12:21] <\sh> ajmitch, but when u look onto the newpackages list, it's a hell of a lot [12:21] dholbach, if you have a package that belongs into a certain interest of a DD he wont be happy to suddenly have a DD-MOTU team caring for it [12:21] that's not what i meant [12:21] i say, fill ITP (puting a veto on package) and upload it to ubuntu [12:21] dholbach, just because he wassnt fast enough to package [12:21] 1) we announce cool packages, 2) DD xy says i want to take care of abc in debian, 3) ... [12:21] ogra: but this is just new packages [12:21] <\sh> ivoks, RFP [12:21] debian can, but doesn't have to, upload it to debian [12:21] i say fill RFPs [12:22] and let debian care themselves for it [12:22] RFP? but then we will have to wait for someone else to package it [12:22] <\sh> ivoks, the problem for MOTU right now is, 20 people against 15000 and more packages [12:22] ogra: that would produce conflict [12:22] if we fill RFP and bring package to ubuntu [12:22] someone else will bring it to debian [12:22] and on merging we have problems [12:22] <\sh> ivoks, so we will sync it back to ubuntu [12:22] ivoks, why ? we link the source package in the RFP [12:22] ivoks: thats the problem right now [12:23] ivoks: that we want to fix :) [12:23] or improve. [12:23] it's when they don't use the ubuntu packaging that we'd have the issues [12:23] tseng: right, so filling RFP will not do the trick [12:23] but, if we fill ITP [12:23] we will watch both, and get in touch with DDs who show interest in the package [12:23] <\sh> i see it will be easy for us: malone -> file a new package bug -> malone will file RFP or ITP or UDP or TCP to b.d.o/wnpp and we have it [12:24] offer them our sources === siretart agrees to ogra: just file RFP's with pointer to the ubuntu source package, and hope someone is willing to maintain it. this could be a DD or a non DD, in which case he would have to find a DD to get the upload sponsored to debian [12:24] yep [12:24] ok... [12:24] who cannot agree with ogra's suggestion? [12:24] thats close enough for me [12:24] and if dholbach is after it, even a handwritten monthly newsletter [12:25] <\sh> i think it's the best we have right now [12:25] ogra: haha.. yeah - absolutely :) [12:25] :) [12:25] but [12:25] is there any possibility of getting a team of dd's who will do sponsored uploads for MOTU members? [12:25] Unfrgiven: it's hard [12:25] Unfrgiven: that doesnt make as much sense as sponsoring a specific package [12:26] Unfrgiven: sponsoring always means reviewing as well [12:26] Unfrgiven: i'd like to see a team of DDs who go through and integrate changes from derived distributions [12:26] dilinger: thats a good idea. [12:26] Unfrgiven: not just sponsoring uploads.. [12:26] that leads to the other main problem we have with debian - pushing our changes back [12:27] dilinger, so would you be ok with RFPs if you were in such a team ? or would you expect more ? [12:27] ajmitch: agreed. [12:27] RFP with source/patch [12:27] ogra: RFPs would be fine. speaking for myself, i would prefer to sponsor uploads w/ MOTU maintaining, versus taking the packages and maintaining them myself.. as long as the MOTU team was responsive to bug reports [12:28] but it would have to be a team doing the sponsoring, so RFPs are a good way to start [12:28] *nod* [12:28] dilinger, sounds good [12:28] dilinger: whilst that sounds good, it wouldn't be practical for most of the packages. DDs arent likely to relinquish maintainence duties easily [12:28] ok, everyone agrees with RFP [12:29] Unfrgiven: but we're talking about packages not in debian, so there's no DD maintaining them yet [12:29] ajmitch: ah ok fair enough then. [12:29] Unfrgiven, lets test it.... its not written in stone yet [12:29] Unfrgiven: that's *very* dependent on the DD. you're welcome to any of my packages, i have too many :p [12:29] ogra: yep, you have my vote [12:29] btw RFP = ? [12:30] I'll write up a quick script to get the list of RFPs & ITPs & packages not yet in debian [12:30] Unfrgiven: request for package [12:30] request for package [12:30] ajmitch: ivoks: thanks. [12:30] ITP? :) [12:30] I've got the packages not yet in debian part done :) [12:30] intent to package [12:30] <\sh> Intent To Package [12:30] cool. [12:30] packages not yet in debian = ? [12:30] <\sh> PNYID [12:30] does that exzist? :)) [12:30] pnyid ? [12:31] egxist [12:31] <\sh> packages not yet in debian [12:31] ah... english :) [12:31] ivoks: no, but I can get a list to you in a few minutes [12:31] once I update the sources list === schweeb [~chris@209.120.232.21] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:31] hey schweeb [12:31] hello [12:31] just another thought (sorry if this has been covered already). since we already have a few DDs in Ubuntu (e.g. ajmitch, dholbach) cant they sponsor motu uploads for pnyid? [12:32] ok... packages we change, we send patch do DD? [12:32] Unfrgiven: i'm no dd, sorry, not yet :) [12:32] I'll just lurk for a few, gotta do a severity 2 restore right now :-/ [12:32] dholbach: doh. well i guess ajmitch can take on the burden? :P [12:32] Unfrgiven: it's tough [12:32] <\sh> Unfrgiven, sponsoring means reviewing [12:33] ivoks, thats another story [12:33] dilinger: and all your package seem quite demanding to me ;) [12:33] <\sh> and reviewing is hard work [12:33] Unfrgiven: depends on how much you pay me ;) [12:33] ogra: i know [12:33] ivoks, and not on the agenda :) [12:33] ogra: i tought we agreed on RFP [12:33] which meeting is this? motu or TB ? [12:33] schweeb: motu [12:33] motu [12:33] ivoks, for NEW packages [12:33] ogra: but if the package passes a motu review and is being uploaded into universe surely its good enough for debian? [12:33] k [12:33] <\sh> ok, we're ok with ogras iDea: filing RFP for new packages [12:34] Unfrgiven, i guess so... but i'm not debian :) [12:34] Unfrgiven: we cannot decide this, because we are ubuntu's, not DD's [12:34] ITP if the MOTU really wants to take it on in debian themselves [12:34] siretart: yea. timesuck :( === dilinger needs to head home. later all [12:34] siretart: hence my suggestion to rely on ubuntu devs that are dds [12:34] ogra: i tought we agreed on RFP for new packages, and just asked this totally unrelated question, so i would know for repackaging [12:34] ciao dilinger [12:34] bye dilinger [12:34] ogra: ah, forget it :) [12:34] <\sh> cu dilinger [12:34] dilinger: bye [12:34] bye dilinger [12:35] dilinger: cya dude [12:35] bye dilinger [12:35] dilinger: bye [12:35] Unfrgiven: well, thats also possible with the current suggestion: RFP's [12:35] <\sh> guys, please think about this: some of the structure is different in debian then in ubuntu...and to test the packages against debian we need a etch pbuilder [12:35] dilinger: you seem to have quite a fan club in here :) [12:35] \sh: or a debian box [12:35] \sh: rather an sid pbuilder [12:35] next time.... [12:35] \sh, why ? [12:35] "dilinger: Hi, i'm dilinger, and I have a problem" [12:35] I've got a number of systems here, and use a sid chroot regularly [12:36] and everybody else "hi, diliger" [12:36] \sh, i mean why should we test/repackage and fix it for etch ? [12:36] :) [12:36] \sh, i'd like to leave this to debian [12:36] ok... did we agree on the process yet? [12:37] the one who gets a NEW package in, will file an rtp with a link to his source package in our archive? [12:37] \sh: DDs will do that [12:37] I havn't seen a counter proposal, so I assume yes [12:37] dholbach: yes [12:37] dholbach, yes [12:37] <\sh> ogra, i don't mind to give a package to debian which is not building on there systems [12:37] dholbach: RFP in general, ITP is the MOTU is really keen [12:37] yes... rfp [12:37] <\sh> dholbach, aggreed [12:37] excellent, that's a majority - shall we proceed? [12:37] \sh, if they want it, they can take it [12:37] dholbach: lets go! [12:37] dholbach: YES :) [12:37] yep [12:37] proceed, please.. :) [12:38] ROCK [12:38] I'll edit MOTUNewPackagesPolicy in the mean time [12:38] so new teams, that was yours dholbach [12:38] if a MOTU is agreeing taking over maintenance for debian for that package, he can rename the RFP to an ITP anyway. so: next ;) [12:38] siretart: sure, topic closed ;) [12:38] :) === schweeb silently rejoins the meeting [12:39] i was trying to think of ways to have new teams (and they seem to pop up quite often these days) working close with the debian counterparts - how can we get going? [12:39] dholbach: can you give an example? [12:39] <\sh> centralized communication between the motu teams and debian teams [12:39] \sh: had some ideas for this [12:40] <\sh> so one email address for one motu team, the same for debian ( if it's not already) [12:40] siretart: the kde team, the upcoming gnome team, the python team, the mono team is already ROCKING, the upcoming games team [12:40] do you think we should advertise them on the debian lists as well? [12:40] The Java team is rocking too! [12:40] dholbach: could make it a required step to communicate with the debian counterparts (or at least try to) for when you upload a different version number of a package, or make a significant patch/fix [12:40] Woo hoo! [12:41] wasabi_: yeah! [12:41] oh, you're talking about the team stuff, n/m [12:41] or if the teams actually become one, have a common archive for packaging (eg alioth) [12:41] <\sh> after all, there should be a teamlead who can cover most of the "governance" work, e.g. which software has more prio then other blabla [12:42] \sh, a SPOC ? [12:42] <\sh> SPOC? [12:42] ogra: SPOC? [12:42] <\sh> yeah [12:42] <\sh> noc spoc [12:42] single point of contact [12:42] yes! [12:42] \sh, i'd like to see that as well :) === siretart doesn't quite understand. What is the problem right now, and what do we want to improve? [12:42] :) [12:43] <\sh> ok..let me explain one thing :) [12:43] siretart, me neither, but its on the agenda.... [12:43] \sh: elaborate :) [12:43] siretart: the near-complete lack of coordination between debian & ubuntu on some packages "_ [12:43] Coordinating with Debian is hard. [12:43] siretart, we only have 21 MOTUs yet, its to early for team processes... [12:44] ogra: 22 next week hopefully :) [12:44] ajmitch: do you have an example of a concrete package? [12:44] ajmitch, nope, that was the last topic [12:44] <\sh> when a team is getting bigger, and you don't have a SPOC ;) everybody can speak for a team, and then we have something like "quasselbude" in germany in the beginning of the 20th century [12:44] \sh: or debian these days :) [12:44] \sh, we have a process for tht [12:44] \sh, the first approved MOTU who enters a team leads it... [12:44] ogra: I thought we were talking about teams & how they can coordinate with existing debian teams? [12:45] ajmitch: yes [12:45] which is how I got lumped as zope team lead [12:45] since a team can consist of a lot of other eople [12:45] <\sh> ogra, i didn't know [12:45] <\sh> then forget about what I said ;) [12:45] dholbach, oh, there are more then 3 teams in debian ? [12:45] ogra: ? [12:46] dholbach, i thought there is only kernel, gnome and KDE for now... and the rest is individually maintained [12:46] ogra: there are loads of teams [12:46] oh... [12:46] plenty of teams around [12:46] parted team, common lisp team, vim team, ... [12:46] i wasnt aare [12:46] lots of them are on alioth [12:46] x team [12:46] mono team, zope team [12:47] release team (scnr) === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:47] ok ok [12:47] my question was merely, how can we improve the situation there? how can we get teams going? and do we want to announce each and every single bit like team meetings/plans to the debian lists? [12:48] dholbach: there might be some backlash against us advertising our meetings on debian-devel [12:48] dholbach, they would be annoyed very soon i guess [12:48] ^^^ [12:48] I have an idea [12:48] <\sh> when i comes to a community work between both distris then yes, if it's only a internal meeting then no [12:48] what's the possibility of each team getting a mailing list [12:48] and asking the debian devs to subscribe [12:49] so then, if they're interested, they've voluntarily subscribed [12:49] schweeb, NO ! [12:49] lol [12:49] suicide [12:49] :) [12:49] Unfrgiven, ogra: given the load of CRACK on all the mailing lists, this would be important bits and at least we could try [12:49] it's the best way for them to be plugged in, yet be voluntarily plugged in [12:49] flaming teams for willing to do good work together is ... you know ... idiotic [12:50] and as many of you said before: we can only offer [12:50] hm. how many teams in ubuntu do we have atm which have a debian counterpart? [12:50] well... scheduled posts? [12:50] and offering should be in prominent places [12:50] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeams [12:51] MOTUTeams [12:51] dholbach, ubuntu-devel, i dont see any need for 50 mailing lists... or how many teams we'll ever have [12:51] ogra: you won't have seen me advertising additional mailing lists today [12:51] <\sh> oh yes [12:51] <\sh> sorry [12:51] ogra: there will still have to be a place for team discussion that 95% of u-d people don't care about :) [12:52] \sh: I'm counting 3 on that list: InstallerTeam, KernelTeam and Kubuntu [12:52] <\sh> siretart, nono [12:52] team forums maybe? [12:52] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams maybe? [12:52] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams [12:52] <\sh> there is a bug on the wiki [12:52] ajmitch, so whats the problem... ubuntu-devel is very low traffic... and if i actually look at other lists we have, i really doubt they are needed.... === JanC_ [~janc@dD5770437.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:52] ah [12:53] (i have -hardened in mind for example) [12:53] ogra: I'm not talking about any new mailing list [12:54] i'm talking about making announcements and reaching hands out, coordinating [12:54] <\sh> guys, who will make the first contact with the debian counterpart? so if this is settled, they can decide how the communication is done [12:54] and people who are annoyed about an announcement like that should be silently ignored [12:54] JanC_: me too :) [12:55] i think every team should post a message of help offering [12:55] hm. I think we could define some template suggesting how the Ubuntu team should present themselves: important point should be a Team Lead, goals for ubuntu and current problems and plans. with that presentation, it should be more easy for the debian counterpart to get in contact with the team in a sensible manner [12:56] then evey team could decide how to communicate [12:56] ivoks: yes, but maybe just to the debian team if there is one, not to the whole debian world [12:56] ajmitch: maybe [12:56] make it BIG! :) [12:56] yes [12:56] one message with all details [12:57] why, who, plans, etc... [12:57] yeah [12:57] template is needed for that [12:57] <\sh> some rocking sound as multimedia introduction, so everybody can hear it ;) [12:57] :) [12:57] \sh: specialy for kernel team :) [12:58] for me, it was the other way round.. the debian team contacted me :) [12:58] add suggestions to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto :) [12:58] dholbach dancing naked in a blurry background behind the scrolling text and some funny music ? [12:59] not to fancy message [12:59] yeah - that sounds brilliant [12:59] ;-) [12:59] simple, straightforward [12:59] or would that scare debian away ? [12:59] <\sh> sound: queen we will rock you -> font family: MS comic -> font-size 72pt: text: we want you :) [12:59] ogra: sorry, but it would scare me away [12:59] ;) [12:59] \sh: waaaaah! :) [12:59] <\sh> and actually: "winning web award" ,-) [12:59] ajmitch, me too, but i'm no DD ;) [01:00] guy, it's 1AM, let [01:00] let's get back to buissness [01:00] ok ok [01:00] ok, who does a template ? === ogra has no video cam [01:01] hm... [01:01] <\sh> template ? video cam? [01:01] well i could do a pretemplate [01:01] \sh, joking [01:01] what did we agree on? [01:01] dholbach, a template ? [01:01] we didn't [01:01] <\sh> document template for wiki pages [01:01] no [01:01] <\sh> for motu teams [01:01] no [01:01] template for a message [01:01] dholbach: you dancing naked? :-) [01:01] for messages [01:02] we should add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto [01:02] yep [01:02] <\sh> ok. [01:02] for debian teams, explaining who we are, what we want to do and how can we help [01:02] ok, ivoks makes a first template and puts it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto ?? [01:02] ogra: consider it done [01:02] excellent [01:02] thanks :) [01:02] any special format? :) .doc or .xls? :) [01:03]