[12:04] <mdke> wb jeffsch 
[12:05] <jeffsch> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[12:06] <mdke> jeffsch, language packs?
[12:06] <jeffsch> you wanna do the xml vs html thing at tb?
[12:07] <mdke> i would like a docmeeting on it first
[12:08] <mdke> but in principal yeah sure
[12:08] <mdke> the reason I wanted to go to TB was basically to make them start to see us working together as a team
[12:08] <mdke> us = docteam and -devel
[12:17] <mdke> ping mkde
[12:17] <mdke> mkde how is it going
[12:24] <robitaille> hummm...very interesting conversation this afternoon between mdke  and mdke :)
[12:24] <mdke> yeah
[12:25] <mdke> just trying to figure out irssi
[12:26] <mdke> thinking of using it permanently from now on
[12:30] <robitaille> same here.  I switched last night from xchat to irssi
[12:30] <robitaille> often I have to access irc remotely from my home machine, and doing it with xchat was a killer
[12:30] <mdke> *grins*
[12:31] <mdke> i'm gonna use screen
[12:31] <mdke> that was the killer which provoked the change
[12:31] <mdke> do you use it?
[12:31] <robitaille> life would be so much easier if irc was available at work....
[12:31] <robitaille> never used screen
[12:31] <mdke> it allows you to keep a terminal even if you lose X
[12:32] <squinn> And it's good for when you need someone to hack into comp.
[12:32] <mdke> so you can run irssi in it, mark yourself as away, ssh in and check your messages
[12:32] <squinn> Like for teck support.
[12:32] <squinn> tech
[12:32] <mdke> yeah?
[12:33] <squinn> yep.
[12:34] <mdke> are you saying its makes my computer insecure?
[12:34] <mdke> its/it
[12:39] <mdke> ok am officially switched to irssi
[12:41] <robitaille> it works pretty well.  I still have to get use to some of the keyboard shortcuts.
[12:41] <mdke> yeah i just restarted X
[12:41] <mdke> its so cool
[12:42] <robitaille> next step is to use mutt and elinks, then you don't need X anymore :)
[12:42] <mdke> yes
[12:42] <mdke> mutt will be next
[12:42] <mdke> but i use a quite default ubuntu install on my laptop, which is what I use for email
[12:42] <mdke> so I will continue with evo
[12:44] <robitaille> I have been using mutt on and off for years.  But recently I started using thunderbird most of the time.  I'm sure I'll get fed up in the the few weeks and switch back to mutt.  I always do...
[12:44] <mdke> yeah
[12:45] <mdke> does it do gpg?
[12:45] <robitaille> yes
[12:45] <mdke> hmm
[12:45] <mdke> and you get to look geek too
[12:47] <mdke> i am test running enlightenment right now
[12:48] <Burgundavia> I just killed about 30 mono threads and beagle
[12:48] <Burgundavia> went from 100% ram usage to about 20%
[12:48] <mdke> lol
[12:48] <mdke> breezy :D
[12:48] <Burgundavia> stupid beagle/blam bug
[12:48] <mdke> and Burgundavia call's me crazy for running gentoo
[12:49] <Burgundavia> running gentoo is crazy
[12:49] <Burgundavia> because when Breezy releases I will have a stable system, and you will still have gentoo
[12:49] <mdke> nah
[12:49] <mdke> you'll have a stable system for 2 weeks
[12:49] <mdke> then you'll be on breezy+1
[12:49] <Burgundavia> I waited a month to jump to breezy
[12:50] <mdke> you have more aggregate instability ;)
[12:50] <Burgundavia> depends what breakage they plan for breezy+1
[12:50] <mdke> heh
[12:50] <robitaille> I still haven't swtich to Breezy.  I run it in a 2nd partition, but it still feels a bit too unstable for "production" work (a.k.a to use by the rest of the family at home)
[12:51] <Burgundavia> my brother is still on hoary
[12:51] <Burgundavia> today nautilus was borked
[12:51] <Burgundavia> until I restated it and killed all the zombie threads
[12:51] <Burgundavia> now I have desktop wallpaper again!
[12:51] <mdke> i had that here
[12:53] <robitaille> yeah, hoary's nautilus seems to freezy on me every few days.  It's a good thing I'm 95% of the time in the command line.
[12:53] <robitaille> s/freezy/freeze
[12:54] <Burgundavia> why does clock-applet use 35 mb of ram?
[12:54] <Burgundavia> and FUSA uses 25
[12:54] <Burgundavia> how about gnome-cups-icon at  36, and I don't even have a printer
[12:56] <Burgundavia> or evo-exchange-storage at 39 mb. I neither use evo or connect to an exchange server
[12:56] <mdke> bbl
[12:56] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: they almost certainly don't
[12:56] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: they almost certainly are using very little each
[12:56] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: it'll be almost all shared
[12:56] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:57] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, what is new in your life?
[12:57] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: Not much, I just submitted a merge to get Aranha actually generating content
[12:57] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: and now I'm off to bed, trusting that it'll pass without me needing to handhold it
[12:57] <Burgundavia> aranha?
[12:57] <Kinnison> http://wiki.digital-scurf.org/Aranha
[01:37] <mdke> gtaylor...
[01:37] <mdke> has written an article about Ubuntu!
[01:38] <mdke> http://www.reviewlinux.com/articles/8/1/Ubuntu---A-New-Approach-to-Desktop-Linux
[01:40] <robitaille> mdke:  you should subscribe to the sounder list.  Someone posted that url last night.
[01:41] <mdke> hmm
[01:41] <mdke> too much email
[01:41] <mdke> but gtaylor comes in here, he is cool
[01:42] <robitaille> it's a low-traffic list (generally...).  Look at Comment #7 from that article.  Someone arguying that XP/2000 is better than Ubuntu and this article is FUD :)
[01:42] <mdke> yeah i saw that
[01:42] <mdke> i won't say linux doesn't have some issues
[01:43] <mdke> but windows _DOES_ need to be restarted frequently
[01:43] <mdke> every time you install a simple card game
[01:44] <mdke> and its also important to note that my flatmates wifi card doesn't work under XP, whereas my card works fine with reverse engineered hacked up drivers
[03:49] <mdke> what was that program that will do some video recordings of your screen in swf or some format?
[03:51] <mdke> istanbul maybe
[03:51] <mdke> good morning jsgotangco/squinn!
[03:52] <jeffsch> hmmm... first mdke was talking to himself, and now he's answering his own questions....
[03:52] <jeffsch> too much work, methinks
[03:53] <mdke> heh
[03:53] <mdke> i had the word turkey in my head
[03:53] <robitaille> http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/
[03:53] <mdke> got there in the end
[03:53] <mdke> robitaille: vnc is a bit tricky tho
[03:53] <mdke> or can I do it localhost?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> morning
[03:53] <robitaille> I don't know; never tried  I just know that this is what was used for the Beagles demos
[03:54] <jsgotangco> I LOOOVVEE MEDIAWIKI
[03:54] <mdke> yes i watched those demos
[03:54] <mdke> they were sweet
[03:54] <mdke> i looove jsgotangco 
[03:54] <jsgotangco> you want a taste of my whip?
[03:54] <robitaille> We all love mediawiki...let's fork the Ubuntu wiki :)
[03:54] <mdke> jsgotangco: good work on DocteamProjects
[03:55] <squinn> good [morning?]  jsgotangco and mdke 
[03:55] <jsgotangco> i haven
[03:55] <jsgotangco> i haven't even started
[03:55] <mdke> jsgotangco: even better :D
[03:55] <jeffsch> when you're done, there's the rest of the wiki :)
[03:56] <mdke> what did you guys think of my wiki team email?
[03:57] <jsgotangco> hmmm wiki janitors?
[03:58] <jeffsch> i like the idea
[03:58] <jeffsch> I started making a list of all the pages on CategoryDocteam that need some updating, revising, or rethinking
[03:58] <robitaille> wiki farmers?
[03:59] <robitaille> personally I think the idea ofa wiki team is a good one.
[03:59] <jeffsch> the list got too long, so I gave up. They all need some love
[03:59] <mdke> yes the docteam pages need love so that the team will get more hits :)
[04:00] <jeffsch> there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/doc that we should consider
[04:01] <mdke> yeah exactly
[04:02] <mdke> henriks idea
[04:03] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:03] <jsgotangco> this is too much for my brain to handle now
[04:03] <mdke> ok
[04:03] <mdke> reply on list whenever you fancy
[04:03] <jsgotangco> there are far too many issues we have to address
[04:04] <jsgotangco> the best way probably is to decentralize all work at the moment whoever wants to lead on
[04:04] <mdke> too many?
[04:04] <jsgotangco> and put it all together in the projects page so we know all what is happening
[04:04] <jsgotangco> not just on the svn
[04:05] <mdke> yeah IMHO that page should become the central page for us
[04:05] <jsgotangco> so far i only see 5 names on the page and its all svn work
[04:06] <jsgotangco> im sure wiki work will interest a lot of people even if they dont really have svn access
[04:06] <mdke> the other thing I was thinking about is translation
[04:06] <jsgotangco> (not all really like that work anyway)
[04:06] <mdke> yeah
[04:06] <mdke> philipacamaniac is keen on wiki work
[04:06] <philipacamaniac> true dat true dat
[04:06] <jsgotangco> so i guess its a good idea to put the wiki work as a team project
[04:07] <jeffsch> yeah
[04:07] <mdke> jsgotangco: lets wait and hear more opinions?
[04:07] <mdke> some may be contrary
[04:07] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:07] <jsgotangco> i'll just keep on improving the projects page and keep it updated as much as possible
[04:08] <mdke> :)
[04:08] <jsgotangco> but people who want to be involved are free to join in the projects anyway
[04:08] <mdke> it looks sexy now
[04:08] <mdke> thanks to your breezygoals theme
[04:08] <jeffsch> projects page would be a good place for your hypothetical wiki team, mdke
[04:08] <jsgotangco> yeah colors make wonders
[04:09] <mdke> jeffsch: you don't think we should wait on it a little?
[04:09] <jsgotangco> the "status page" is very dependent on the status id of svn docs
[04:09] <mdke> yeah
[04:09] <jeffsch> mdke: it's very easy to remove
[04:09] <mdke> people responsible can generate previews and update status
[04:09] <jsgotangco> wonder if mako was the one who generated them
[04:09] <mdke> or maybe even autogenerate
[04:09] <jsgotangco> its in mako's shell
[04:10] <mdke> but manual generate is not v difficult if each member does it for their document
[04:10] <jsgotangco> (wonder who did this before)
[04:10] <jeffsch> where can the previews be hosted?
[04:10] <jsgotangco> mdke, yeah but that means, their status must be standard as well in case they haven't checked the wiki
[04:11] <jsgotangco> ill ask mako
[04:11] <mdke> jeffsch: in our svn
[04:11] <mdke> jeffsch: no?
[04:11] <jsgotangco> no
[04:11] <mdke> just build the html, link to it on the wiki
[04:11] <mdke> why not?
[04:11] <jeffsch> ahhh... dat right... there ishttp access to svn...
[04:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:11] <jsgotangco> right
[04:11] <jsgotangco> i forgot about that
[04:12] <mdke> [https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/whatever review] 
[04:12] <mdke> p*
[04:12] <jsgotangco> we dont need mako's shell then
[04:12] <jsgotangco> (those pages are extremely old in the first place)
[04:12] <mdke> its cool to have auto, but if the representation thing works, it shouldn't be a big deal IMO
[04:14] <jsgotangco> it shouldn't be difficult for people working on a page to generate the previews IMO as long as the document validates and has a proper stylesheet
[04:14] <mdke> yeah i agree
[04:16] <mdke> jeffsch is giving us an example ;)
[04:16] <jeffsch> any second now...
[04:17] <jsgotangco> i have no idea how to generate a script like that
[04:17] <mdke> whoops
[04:17] <mdke> doesn't work
[04:18] <mdke> com/repos/trunk/styleguide/styleguide.html
[04:18] <mdke> *coughs*
[04:18] <mdke> i haven't quite got the hang of irssi totally yet
[04:20] <jeffsch> hmmm... not working so well
[04:20] <jeffsch> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide
[04:20] <jeffsch> click on Preview...
[04:21] <jeffsch> i get html source only
[04:21] <mdke> yeah thats what i mean
[04:21] <mdke> missing some top tags I guess
[04:21] <mdke> get philipacamaniac to have a look at it, he is well good
[04:21] <jsgotangco> i only get the source as well
[04:21] <philipacamaniac> eh? lemme see 
[04:21] <jeffsch> the html is good, it must be the server
[04:22] <mdke> k
[04:22] <mdke> interesting
[04:22] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:22] <jeffsch> it is not sending proper mime type... should be text/html or some such thing, iirc
[04:22] <mdke> guess we need someone to host it then, or have a word with elmo to get an apache server up
[04:23] <jeffsch> http://docteam.ubuntu.com/
[04:23] <mdke> yes
[04:23] <mdke> good point
[04:23] <philipacamaniac> agreed... the html is proper (although no dtd!)
[04:24] <mdke> i guess someone can upload to that
[04:24] <jsgotangco> or a linode server :)
[04:24] <mdke> maybe henrik set it up at sean's recent request
[04:24] <mdke> did everyone see greg's article?
[04:25] <mdke> http://www.reviewlinux.com/authors/7/Greg-Taylor
[04:25] <jeffsch> i saw it. it was good, but i don't know how he came up with 10 out of 10!
[04:25] <jsgotangco> extreme bias
[04:25] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:29] <philipacamaniac> I have seen the same mime-type problems elsewhere in SVN-powered web repos
[04:29] <mdke> bug maybe?
[04:29] <philipacamaniac> don't know, the actual html that spits out is valid
[04:30] <jeffsch> ok, i gotta go for a bit. must eat, and then.... Daleks!!!
[04:30] <jeffsch> later
[04:30] <jsgotangco> bye
[04:30] <jsgotangco> have fun
[04:30] <mdke> bye
[04:30] <philipacamaniac> hasta
[04:30] <mdke> first dalek episode?
[04:31] <jeffsch> yep
[04:31] <jeffsch> ok. now i'm gone. bye
[04:32] <mdke> bye
[04:32] <jeffsch> no wait, when you say first dalek episode, do you mean the one where the last dalek goes to the light side and then dies in the sun?
[04:33] <jeffsch> or do you mean the penultimate episoed, which is on tonight?
[04:33] <mdke> penultimate
[04:33] <mdke> its the best episode by miles
[04:33] <mdke> enjoy
[04:33] <jeffsch> ok. that's the one. penultimate.
[04:33] <jeffsch> ok. now i'm gone. honest.
[04:33] <mdke> heh bye
[04:35] <philipacamaniac> I tried that preview in lynx and the source came up...heehee stupid apache config
[04:36] <jsgotangco> dalek?
[04:36] <jsgotangco> heh let's tell that to elmo
[04:39] <mdke> you know what a dalek is jsgotangco 
[04:39] <mdke> tell me you do
[04:39] <philipacamaniac> hmm...daleks...weird UK humor I suppose
[04:40] <mdke> not humur
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i have no idea
[04:40] <mdke> *o
[04:40] <mdke> its deadly serious
[04:40] <philipacamaniac> okay then my googling has done me in
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i can undestand american culture, but not english one
[04:40] <philipacamaniac> http://www.daleklinks.co.uk/
[04:40] <mdke> daleks are the mortal enemy of Dr Who
[04:41] <mdke> they are time travellers created to kill
[04:41] <robitaille> and they are on TV in Canada tonight :)
[04:41] <jsgotangco> we're more fed on spiderman and spawn rather than Dr. Who and Death's head
[04:41] <mdke> ah canada too
[04:41] <mdke> awesome
[04:41] <jsgotangco> when i was in sydney i was watching this comedy and i didnt get it at all
[04:44] <mdke> i watched all the Dr Who's this series
[04:44] <mdke> ooh
[04:44] <mdke> check out the e17 login manager
[04:44] <mdke> http://get-e.org/User_Guide/English_images/entrance.png
[04:44] <mdke> bootiful
[04:45] <jsgotangco> wow
[04:45] <jsgotangco> but e is so 90s
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:46] <robitaille> I can't say I really like it.  Maybe it is the colours
[04:46] <jsgotangco> it looks strangely like gorilla
[04:47] <mdke> OMG
[04:47] <robitaille> reminds me of the BeOS-like theme I used to have  on Mandrake  on my work workstation
[04:47] <mdke> do you guys just get a shitload of emails
[04:47] <mdke> i just got 40
[04:47] <mdke> in 2 mins
[04:47] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:47] <jsgotangco> let me check
[04:47] <philipacamaniac> from which list?
[04:47] <mdke> bounce notifications from ubuntu-it
[04:48] <mdke> jdub: ping?
[04:48] <jsgotangco> mako jdub: something wicked is going on with ubuntu-users
[04:48] <jsgotangco> mako jdub: i'm getting MANY bounces 
[04:48] <jsgotangco> hmm same here bounce notifications
[04:48] <robitaille> haven't got any bounce notifications with the ubuntu-ca list
[04:48] <mdke> it must be caused by the problems at the weekend
[04:49] <mdke> some of the bounces however I recognise as being posts which were validly posted to the list more than a month ago
[04:49] <philipacamaniac> I'll check the forums, they're hooked up to the user list
[04:49] <mdke> argh
[04:49] <mdke> 80 emails now
[04:50] <mdke> still counting
[04:51] <mdke> its only for the list i'm admin on
[04:51] <mdke> i know jsgotangco and robitaille admin lists tho so that's why I asked
[04:52] <jsgotangco> i admin 2
[04:52] <jsgotangco> but quite low traffic
[04:53] <robitaille> still not one on the ubuntu-ca list...but we are quite low traffic these days...
[04:53] <mdke> hmm
[04:53] <mdke> anyway
[04:53] <mdke> hope there is nothing screwy going on
[04:53] <mdke> if jdub turns up, mention it
[04:54] <mdke> i should go to bed its starting to get light outside
[04:57] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:57] <jsgotangco> no!
[04:57] <jsgotangco> do an all nighter!
[04:58] <mdke> hmm
[04:58] <mdke> nah i already haven't slept much
[04:59] <mdke> cyas
[04:59] <jsgotangco> later
[04:59] <squinn> later jerome
[05:00] <jdub> jsgotangco: yeah, i'm looking into it atm
[05:00] <jdub> jsgotangco: you could remove yourself from the admin list perhaps, to avoid the mails :)
[05:03] <jsgotangco> yaahh
[07:51] <froud> African Greetings
[07:54] <froud> jeffsch: why do you checkin presentational formats to svn?
[07:56] <froud> jeffsch: if I may make a suggestion. in svn you have a dir called build/ create your makefile so that people can run it and it will create the presentational formats in a build/styleguide/
[07:57] <jsgotangco> froud, it was a test
[07:57] <jsgotangco> we were finding a way to fix up DocteamProjects page
[07:57] <jsgotangco> without using mako's shell
[07:58] <froud> ok, do you know how it works?
[07:58] <robitaille> anyone knows if the svg files in the old wiki are currently available anywhere in the new wiki? (http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-June/039440.html)
[07:58] <jsgotangco> mako's shell?
[07:58] <jsgotangco> no idea
[07:58] <jsgotangco> jeffsch thought that it might work since our svn does http
[07:59] <jsgotangco> instead we got html code in the browser
[07:59] <froud> the process is tho build the docs in html format in build/ then tar.gz and send it to mako
[07:59] <jsgotangco> yeah, but mako is another layer
[07:59] <froud> if you want to use the build dir I guess it can also work
[08:00] <froud> but we should try not to put presnetational formats amongst the source
[08:00] <froud> there is a logical reason
[08:00] <jsgotangco> froud, it was a test, we're not going to do it again then
[08:00] <froud> it because the src gets uploaded to the distro after we tag
[08:01] <froud> jsgotangco: it ok, its not a big problem, but I wanted to mention it
[08:01] <froud> otherwise we will endup with ppl doing checkin of presentational formats all over the repos
[08:02] <jsgotangco> we want to make DocteamProjects give an overall view of what's happening
[08:02] <froud> yes, understood
[08:02] <froud> did you look at the xsl that creates the owner status
[08:03] <jsgotangco> i haven't although thats in my todo list tommorow
[08:03] <jsgotangco> (can't do everything at the same time)
[08:03] <froud> OK, perhaps it may help if we just instate a simple make system like I did for hoary
[08:07] <jsgotangco> if that would ease up things on people, it would be of great help
[08:08] <froud> what have I done now
[08:09] <froud> Hmmm sun released http://open-language-tools.dev.java.net
[09:27] <froud> jsgotangco: do svn up
[09:27] <froud> jsgotangco: then with pwd as trunk do make status
[09:27] <froud> then look in build
[09:28] <froud> you can now generate the status reports with this target.
[09:29] <froud> The intention is for these docs to be hosted at http://docteam.ubuntu.com
[09:29] <froud> that way you can just link from DocteamProjects
[09:30] <froud> these reports may not be accurate for all docs at this time. why? because the reports are generated from the status attributes. Not all of which have been reset
[09:30] <froud> Hope this helps
[09:34] <froud> jsgotangco: does it work for you?
[09:36] <froud> c you later
[12:28] <jsgotangco> hmm nice script by froud
[12:29] <jsgotangco> sean seems to be working as usual
[12:33] <mdke> which script is that?
[12:34] <jsgotangco> the make script for status
[12:34] <jsgotangco> (it relies on the status id of the docs though, so it should be made consistent)
[12:34] <jsgotangco> some docs still won't play nicely with it
[12:35] <mdke> ok
[12:35] <mdke> well if you or he posts what he has done to the list, i'm sure that will help people
[12:35] <jsgotangco> i'll fix first the status ids
[12:35] <mdke> wiki page looks nice
[12:36] <jsgotangco> feel free to mess it up with better stuff
[12:36] <mdke> would it be ok if I merge the three tables?
[12:36] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[12:36] <jsgotangco> how about the wiki projects?
[12:36] <mdke> separate heading?
[12:37] <jsgotangco> let's try the separate heading first
[12:37] <jsgotangco> i was thinking if we merge the tables, we should at least assign priorities to the projects
[12:37] <jsgotangco> just for distinction
[12:37] <mdke> also I think learnlinux should be removed or at least be marked as deferred
[12:37] <mdke> its not a docteam project
[12:38] <jsgotangco> i agree but i prefer it if we merge tables, we should have to tag the docs according to priority
[12:38] <mdke> how come?
[12:39] <jsgotangco> so we'll know which docs will need to be finished much sooner rather than people doing a doc that is not bound to be shipped
[12:39] <mdke> well all the other docs should be shipped right?
[12:40] <mdke> just learnlinux (not our project) and adminguides (deferred) won't ship
[12:40] <jsgotangco> sure but not all
[12:41] <mdke> ...
[12:42] <jsgotangco> the priority tag is just my opinion
[12:42] <jsgotangco> i think we know well what docs are prioritized, but not the community as a whole
[12:42] <mdke> well i think its a good idea, but i don't think the lack of those tags stops us from merging the tables right now
[12:43] <jsgotangco> i don't mind the table merges though
[12:43] <mdke> yay
[12:44] <jsgotangco> i have to rush for dinner
[12:44] <jsgotangco> there is a forecast of heavy rain later
[12:44] <mdke> okey dokey
[12:44] <jsgotangco> yay
[12:44] <mdke> have a nice dinner
[12:44] <jsgotangco> (my wife is leaving in 2 days for KL)
[12:44] <jsgotangco> i should make up
[12:45] <mdke> make up?
[12:45] <jsgotangco> mdke, merge the tables if you want to, i'll just add more stuff to the page when needed
[12:46] <mdke> yay
[12:46] <mdke> thanks
[12:46] <jsgotangco> (like separate them again to 3 priority tables)
[12:46] <jsgotangco> HEHEHEHE
[12:46] <jsgotangco> jk
[12:46] <mdke> ;)
[12:46] <jsgotangco> ok im out
[12:46] <jsgotangco> later
[12:46] <mdke> byeeeee
[12:50] <mdke> wiki is a bit slow again
[01:49] <rob^> does anyone else currently have problems with the faq?
[01:50] <rob^> in revision 1199
[01:50] <rob^> (the latest)
[01:50] <mdke> what sort of problems?
[01:50] <rob^> none of the links work
[01:51] <rob^> in yelp
[01:51] <mdke> right
[01:51] <mdke> that document is very much work in progress
[01:51] <rob^> yeah, just checking I hadn't done something wrong
[01:51] <mdke> rob^: it was ported from ubuntuguide.org but the author does not maintain our version, only the online version
[01:52] <rob^> ah
[01:52] <mdke> perhaps we should discuss the status of that document at the next meeting
[01:52] <mdke> it is gonna be hard to maintain without the author
[01:52] <mdke> it crashes my yelp right now
[01:53] <rob^> ah
[01:53] <rob^> are the meetings here?
[01:53] <mdke> they will be in ubuntu-meeting
[01:53] <mdke> hopefully every 2 weeks
[01:54] <rob^> cool
[01:54] <mdke> jerome will organise them i think
[03:32] <froud> mdke: question?
[03:32] <mdke> yes shoot
[03:33] <froud> mdke: I understand you would not like to have the profiling method in docs
[03:33] <mdke> i have some concerns about it, but I don't know a lot about it
[03:33] <mdke> i'd like to discuss it definitely
[03:33] <froud> mdke: that's ok, what if I split install guide and make a gnome install and a kde install?
[03:34] <mdke> froud, well I don't have any technical problems with the profiling, i was just concerned about new users finding it difficult
[03:34] <mdke> i think if they were split it might be easier to manage
[03:34] <mdke> what do you think?
[03:35] <froud> mdke: I explained it in long message :-) but if ppl don't grep it then we will have to rm it
[03:35] <froud> I am happy to do this
[03:36] <froud> I have been pondering things
[03:36] <mdke> froud, ok to find out what everyone thinks I'd suggest discussing it at the next meeting, hopefully jerome will organise one for next week
[03:36] <mdke> i know its possible to work in profile, but it might be a little more complex, that's all
[03:36] <froud> and as I now see it, perhaps we have gnome working in the gnome way and kde working in the kde way
[03:37] <mdke> hmm
[03:37] <froud> technically possible and from a human perspective it seems that people will grep it better
[03:37] <mdke> ok so are you happy to raise it at the meeting?
[03:37] <froud> I was hoping for a more eligant solution, but hey can't have everything
[03:38] <froud> mdke: I respect all the meeting stuff, but it really slows down waht can be done
[03:38] <froud> I have to wait a week just in order to impliment a 30 min change
[03:39] <mdke> froud, its a team decision IMO
[03:39] <mdke> it should have been a team decision in the first place
[03:39] <froud> mdke: not going there
[03:40] <froud> what people need is to write
[03:40] <mdke> well you asked my opinion, so my opinion is, the team should decide on the profiling issue at a meeting
[03:40] <froud> for gnome the docs are there
[03:40] <froud> Hmm, ok, when did you say that meeting is?
[03:40] <mdke> i hope they will be 2 weekly
[03:40] <mdke> so that will mean next week
[03:40] <mdke> but its up to jerome
[03:41] <froud> Hmm I thought it was a team decision :-) dig dig
[03:41] <froud> Ok well thanks
[03:42] <mdke> well its difficult to have a meeting to decide when the next meeting will be
[03:42] <froud> email?
[03:42] <mdke> yes
[03:42] <froud> send message
[03:42] <mdke> hopefully they will be a regular affair now so it won't be necessary
[03:42] <mdke> but jerome said he would take care of it
[03:43] <froud> I reallydontmind, so long as meetings are short, focused and dont just add to the overhead
[03:43] <mdke> i know it will slow things down for you, but it will help the team
[03:43] <froud> well I will do what I can for now, so at least ppl can get doing
[03:44] <mdke> what do you mean?
[03:44] <froud> mdke: can you test the make status target
[03:44] <mdke> froud, i tried it earlier, but it didn't work on my gentoo machine
[03:44] <froud> Hmm your xsl's are not in the same place as debian
[03:44] <mdke> possibly due to a path issue
[03:45] <mdke> yeah exactly
[03:45] <froud> wanted to use xml catalogs for that kind of resolving, but they are complcicated and made it hard for newbies to get setup
[03:45] <mdke> is it possible to get it to use an xsl in the ubuntu-doc/ archive itself?
[03:45] <mdke> that would make it distro non-specific
[03:46] <froud> yes I can import docbook xsl's and re-engineer from there
[03:46] <froud> you want that?
[03:46] <mdke> would that be a lot of work you think?
[03:46] <froud> no
[03:46] <froud> about 15 mins
[03:46] <mdke> any disadvantages?
[03:47] <froud> none really
[03:47] <mdke> well i don't really know enough about docbook to comment
[03:47] <froud> it does not really matter where the xsl's are
[03:47] <froud> so long as the system can process with them
[03:48] <mdke> you could try it maybe
[03:48] <froud> I have about five installations on one of my systems to cater for various things
[03:48] <mdke> heh
[03:48] <froud> ok where would you like them?
[03:49] <mdke> i have no idea
[03:49] <mdke> where do you think is best?
[03:49] <mdke> teamstuff?
[03:49] <froud> thinking libs/ all the other xsl custom layers are there
[03:50] <mdke> whatever you think best
[03:50] <froud> libs/docbook xsl
[03:50] <froud> libs/docbook-xsl
[03:50] <mdke> also if you can tell the list about the target, we can use/test it
[03:50] <froud> hmm ok
[03:51] <mdke> :)
[03:51] <mdke> right I'll bbl
[03:52] <froud> what about I do libs/currentxsl where currentxsl is a link to docbook-xsl in vendor/
[03:52] <froud> hmm, but then everyone needs vendor
[03:52] <froud> no bad idea
[03:52] <froud> OK
[03:52] <froud> I 'll figure it
[04:52] <mdke> froud, saw the make status email, same error here for me
[04:52] <froud> what box you on?
[04:52] <mdke> http://pastebin.com/302502
[04:53] <mdke> gentoo
[04:53] <froud> cant work on gentoo
[04:53] <froud> as you said
[04:53] <mdke> oh i c
[04:53] <mdke> ok
[04:53] <froud> paths != to ubuntu
[04:54] <mdke> yeah
[04:54] <froud> but you can test it
[04:54] <mdke> so did you decide not to change that?
[04:54] <froud> check /usr/share/xml/docbook
[04:54] <froud> you shoul dhave stylesheets or current or something down there
[04:54] <mdke> no
[04:54] <mdke> they are somewhere else
[04:54] <mdke> maybe I can copy em
[04:55] <froud> no just change the path in html-cust.xsl
[04:55] <froud> you should see my suse one commented out
[04:55] <froud> you can do the same
[04:56] <mdke> ah kewl
[04:56] <mdke> i _think_ mine are in /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets-1.66.1/
[04:56] <froud> yes that is also possible, but that is a very old location for them
[04:56] <froud> wonder why gentoo did not update it
[04:57] <froud> well we can ask the same of ubuntu/debian?
[04:57] <mdke> i guess maybe its an older version of docbook
[04:57] <mdke> so I put the path in the "imports" section of html-cust?
[04:58] <froud> yeah that should do it for you
[04:58] <mdke> is it this one:
[04:59] <mdke> /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets-1.66.1/html/profile-chunk.xsl?
[04:59] <mdke> oh no
[04:59] <mdke> xhtml
[04:59] <mdke> froud, can I add it or do I need to comment out the other import line?
[05:00] <froud> yes
[05:00] <froud> html not xhtml
[05:00] <mdke> ok
[05:01] <mdke> crap
[05:01] <mdke> doesn't work
[05:02] <mdke> this is the part of the file:
[05:02] <mdke> http://pastebin.com/302505
[05:02] <mdke> i get this error:
[05:02] <mdke> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/docbook.xsl"
[05:02] <mdke> cannot parse /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/docbook.xsl
[05:02] <froud> you still have the wrong path
[05:03] <mdke> why is it looking for the nwalsh thing if that is commented out?
[05:03] <mdke> is it calling another file?
[05:04] <froud> <!-- <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"/> -->
[05:04] <froud>     <!--<xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/profile-chunk.xsl"/>-->
[05:04] <froud> 	ADD YOURS HERE
[05:04] <froud>     <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>
[05:05] <froud> Hmmm I see
[05:05] <froud> now
[05:05] <froud> my mistake
[05:05] <froud> in Makefile
[05:05] <froud> look at constant NWDBXSL
[05:05] <mdke> ok
[05:06] <froud> chang ethe SuSE one to your path
[05:06] <mdke> yeah
[05:06] <mdke> doing
[05:06] <froud> try that
[05:07] <mdke> that seems to be working better
[05:07] <froud> :-)
[05:07] <mdke> yeah works nice
[05:07] <froud> cool
[05:07] <mdke> froud, preview next ;)
[05:07] <mdke> does the make html thing still work?
[05:08] <froud> huh?
[05:08] <froud> no
[05:08] <froud> working on it
[05:08] <froud> doing seperate make systems
[05:08] <froud> 1 gnome 1 kde
[05:08] <mdke> right cool
[05:08] <froud> drive from trunk/Makefile
[05:09] <mdke> why separate?
[05:09] <mdke> maybe just a "make preview" like this "make status"
[05:09] <froud> but me thinks you chaps dont want HTML only us KDE farts :-)
[05:09] <mdke> well the DocteamProjects page is supposed to link to html previews
[05:09] <froud> yes
[05:10] <froud> the previews should and stus should go on docteam.u.c
[05:10] <froud> requested status update on that today
[05:11] <froud> mdke: did you grep what I mean?>
[05:11] <mdke> ?
[05:11] <froud> DocteamProject > Status + Previews @ docteam.ubuntu.com
[05:12] <froud> asked hendrik if he could arrange that
[05:12] <mdke> sure
[05:12] <mdke> there is already an apache server there
[05:12] <froud> yes
[05:12] <froud> and the url is there
[05:12] <froud> yes need permission to do it
[05:13] <mdke> well perhaps henrik has upload
[05:13] <froud> and of course some way to make this build on schedule at thathost
[05:13] <mdke> once the make status and make preview is done he can upload from /build
[05:13] <mdke> yes that shouldn't be hard I guess
[05:13] <froud> yes, that would be a manual way
[05:13] <froud> I was thinking more automatic
[05:13] <mdke> i'm sure auto won't be hard
[05:13] <froud> since svn is on that box
[05:14] <mdke> yep
[05:14] <froud> otherwise linode it
[05:14] <mdke> yep
[05:14] <mdke> or linode both
[05:14] <froud> and we can do svn build from there
[05:14] <froud> no svn stay at canonical
[05:14] <froud> canonical server good
[05:15] <mdke> heh
[05:15] <mdke> team decision :p
[05:15] <mdke> jerome has been making linode noises for svn
[05:15] <mdke> anyway, no big deal
[05:15] <froud> cant see why we need it
[05:15] <mdke> good work on the make status
[05:15] <froud> He he your gonna kill me later
[05:16] <froud> but then speed does kill
[05:16] <mdke> y?
[05:16] <froud> :-)
[05:28] <froud> c ya later
[08:08] <squinn> good day, folks..how are ya?
[08:09] <froud> cooking with gas, being my normal troublesome self, and you
[08:10] <squinn> i'm alright
[08:10] <squinn> gas can't be cooked with right now, it's raining. typical florida summer.
[08:10] <froud> yeah that place has so much water
[08:11] <squinn> I'm working on Bugzilla, just a little bit and about to try to package something for the first time. Then will submit some patches to user guide.
[08:11] <squinn> Since I reached good stopping point in GTA
[08:11] <froud> cool, gnome userguide
[08:11] <froud> lekker
[08:14] <squinn> Hey, Sean [froud] , question?
[08:15] <froud> ya
[08:16] <squinn> When will I know if my commit account is ready?
[08:18] <froud> he he dude, that depends on elmo, sometimes it takes a day sometimes a week. As I said, you should give it about a week. Then we will start looking for elmo and send heat seeking missles after him.
[08:18] <squinn> Ooh, yay. Violence and destruction haha
[08:19] <mdke> squinn, you should feel free to send patches in the meantime!
[08:19] <mdke> we'll apply em quick
[08:20] <squinn> I am working on some right now, mdke.
[08:20] <squinn> And froud, I'm about ready to send the new gnome-doc-utils to its Ubuntu package maintainer.
[08:20] <squinn> So he could put it in breezy.
[08:21] <froud> cool stuff
[09:23] <froud> [ANNOUNCE]  OUTLINE TO KUBUNTU USER GUIDE OPEN FOR CONTRIBUTIONS https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/kuserguide/C/kuserguide.xml
[09:33] <squinn> froud, you alive?
[09:33] <froud> rocking and a cock'n
[09:33] <squinn> alrighty
[09:34] <squinn> i'm talking to shaunm on GIMPnet
[09:34] <froud> yep
[09:34] <squinn> he's the maintainer, developer, and sabdfl in regards to gnome-doc-utils.
[09:34] <froud> and you want me to join
[09:34] <squinn> nah.
[09:35] <squinn> Just giving you an update of our talk.
[09:35] <squinn> Now, the package we have in Breezy is 0.2.0.0-ubuntu1, and latest package is going to be 2.3.1
[09:35] <froud> OK, so what's up
[09:35] <squinn> rather
[09:35] <squinn> 0.31*
[09:35] <froud> yep
[09:35] <froud> ... and
[09:35] <squinn> I was under the impression thanks to GNOME cvs that this was out, so I went hunting to send it to its Debian maintainer.
[09:35] <froud> ah, and
[09:36] <squinn> I met up with shaunm to ask him where source was and he said it's not out yet.
[09:36] <squinn> The big news is..it should be out by this weekend.
[09:36] <froud> -)
[09:36] <squinn> Which is AWESOME to here.
[09:36] <squinn> hear.
[09:36] <froud> yeah, its cool, but I have yet to see what it does to fix issues
[09:36] <froud> is there a new feature list somewhere
[09:36] <squinn> supposedly would fix endterm attribute
[09:36] <mdke> squinn, the package will be in breezy in time
[09:36] <squinn> uh, changelog on gnome cvs
[09:37] <froud> cave my head in
[09:37] <squinn> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-doc-utils/ChangeLog?rev=1.232&view=log
[09:37] <squinn> froud ^
[09:37] <squinn> mdke, i know
[09:37] <mdke> it is difficult to rush the process, seb will take the package from cvs and put it in debian, then it will be synched with breezy
[09:38] <squinn> mdke, i just learned how that whole process works from MOTUS
[09:38] <squinn> MOTUs*
[09:38] <squinn> I'm like the intern, if you will. Running errands for maintainers, etc.
[09:39] <mdke> well that is up to you ;)
[09:39] <squinn> So, I look at bugs on Bugzilla and Malone and file as such. Right now, I'm downloading latest amule and wxGTK and wxBase and firing them up to respective maintainers.
[09:40] <squinn> It's fun,  I just gotta send this up to our maintainer who will send it to Debian.
[09:40] <squinn> I could just go directly to Debian, but I like letting our guy or girl know what's going on.
[09:41] <froud> Hmmm dude how would you like to do that for eSvn please
[09:41] <squinn> eSvn?
[09:41] <squinn> esubversion?
[09:41] <squinn> oh, no esvn
[09:41] <froud> http://esvn.umputun.com/
[09:42] <squinn> will do, 
[09:42] <froud> somewhere the debmaintainer lost it
[09:42] <squinn> sure
[09:42] <froud> magic dude
[09:42] <squinn> debmaintainer = OUR deb maintainer or THEIR deb maintainer
[09:43] <froud> both :-)
[09:43] <froud> actually I think the debian one for esvn
[09:43] <squinn> Well, send it to OUR maintainer for esvn then, right?
[09:43] <froud> either way I think it will work
[09:44] <squinn> what version do you want?
[09:44] <squinn> .6.9 or .6.11?
[09:44] <froud> I have a commit account for that project so if you need help
[09:44] <squinn> I'm fine there.
[09:45] <froud> stable is 6.8 but I hav eused 6.11 and found it good
[09:46] <froud> squinn: give me a sect just try to get t he head dev
[09:48] <froud> trying to raise him, gimme a sect I want to get an idea of the release schedule
[09:49] <squinn> 6.10 is unstable and 6.11's probably more unstable
[09:49] <squinn> i'll go with 6.9 because it's "testing" and it's got a .tar.gx
[09:49] <squinn> .gz*
[09:49] <froud> squinn: 6.11 is final end of this month
[09:49] <froud> perhaps its best to wait until then
[09:50] <froud> I may also have to update the user manuals
[09:50] <froud> but 0.7.0 is in works and is buggy at present
[09:51] <squinn> oh ok
[09:52] <squinn> i'll wait till end of month
[09:53] <froud> yep confirmed I have doc updates
[09:53] <froud> and there is still bugs to be resolved. month end better. I will ping you
[09:54] <squinn> k
[09:54] <squinn> make sure it's before july 7th [or try to] 
[09:54] <squinn> because that's when new packages from upstream stop
[09:54] <squinn> wait, it doesn't matter
[09:54] <squinn> if it's an increment up, then it's fine
[09:54] <mdke> hey froud 
[09:54] <froud> yep
[09:54] <mdke> is there a list of different statuses for documents?
[09:55] <froud> how do you mean?
[09:55] <mdke> status="review"
[09:55] <mdke> like, status="review a bit more"
[09:55] <froud> yes
[09:55] <mdke> something that lists all the possible statuses
[09:55] <froud> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamWork
[09:56] <froud> only those status's otheriwse the status reports dont work
[09:56] <froud> if you add status must update scripts
[09:56] <mdke> right
[09:57] <mdke> ok i'll use reviewing
[09:57] <mdke> thanks froud 
[10:04] <froud> are mailing lists down again
[10:07] <mdke> don't think so
[10:07] <mdke> y?
[10:07] <froud> mdke: did you get the messages I sent and the commits
[10:08] <mdke> i got to [ANNOUNCE]  one
[10:08] <mdke> to/the
[10:09] <froud> Hmm OK
[10:09] <squinn> yes and i got commits
[10:09] <squinn> and annoucne
[10:09] <froud> Hmmm must be the link to co.za
[10:12] <froud> good news we have a femal deputy prime minister maybe oneday we will have a female prime minister
[10:12] <mdke> hmm
[10:12] <mdke> that didn't go well for us
[10:12] <mdke> ;)
[10:13] <froud> maggie did a great job
[10:13] <mdke> hmmm
[10:13] <froud> mdke: you want an argument :-)
[10:13] <mdke> heh
[10:13] <mdke> not about that
[10:13] <mdke> :p
[10:16] <mdke> ahhh
[10:16] <mdke> been a while since I committed anything
[10:19] <Burgundavia> we have had one as well
[10:19] <Burgundavia> that didn't go so well for her
[10:19] <Burgundavia> she got sandbagged by her previous male counterpart
[10:19] <Burgundavia> and the populace reduced her party to 2 seats
[10:20] <mdke> canada is progressive
[10:20] <mdke> lots of women judges
[10:20] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:20] <Burgundavia> and same-sex marriage
[10:20] <mdke> argh!
[10:20] <Burgundavia> even same-sex divorce
[10:21] <mdke> heh
[10:21] <froud> cool that's the way
[10:21] <Burgundavia> that was kind of funny
[10:21] <Burgundavia> the court ruled about marriage, but the divorce law explicitly said man/women, so they had to go to court to get that changed, in order to get divorced
[10:23] <mdke> well in this country they only abolished the law that said rape between married people was impossible in 1991
[10:23] <mdke> so we're miled behind
[10:23] <mdke> miled/miles
[10:23] <Burgundavia> even Spain is pushing ahead with same-sex marriage
[10:24] <Burgundavia> which surprised me
[10:24] <mdke> yeah me too
[10:32] <froud> nite
[10:33] <mdke> night
[10:33] <froud> mdke: when I wake up I expect to see that you have finsihed writing the Ubuntu User Guide, OK ;-)
[10:33] <mdke> heh
[10:33] <mdke> bit at a time
[10:33] <froud> nite