[12:01] <ivoks> ajmitch: looks like you and me aren't members yet :)
[12:03] <ivoks> well... time to go
[12:03] <ivoks> night all
[12:03] <ivoks> 1:1 :)
[12:06] <ajmitch> only accordin to launchpad..
[12:25] <Mez> yeah, apparentlly Riddell isnt a member :P
[12:28] <ajmitch> because the existing members haven't been imported there
[12:41] <Riddell> am too
[12:41] <Riddell> I was the first member
[12:42] <lesliev> g'nite all!
[01:06] <Thanatermesis> hi
[01:06] <Thanatermesis> any person like to are a beta-tester for the packages of E17 ? (from debian originally)
[01:07] <Thanatermesis> I need to adapt my packages for ubuntu users for if any ubuntu user are interessing
[01:09] <ajmitch> I'd like to, if I weren't at work :)
[01:10] <Burgundavia> Thanatermesis, you might find more takers in #ubuntu
[01:10] <Thanatermesis> no ubuntu interessed...
[01:10] <Thanatermesis> ubuntu persons speak: what is E17 ?
[01:10] <Thanatermesis> hehe
[01:16] <mfgalizi> OK, so, I added my requested package to the UniverseCandidates site, and the location of the packages I have made too.  Now I can just wait, or is there something more I should do to get these included?
[01:21] <ajmitch> yes, add them to MOTUNewPackages
[01:21] <mfgalizi> k
[01:22] <mfgalizi> and thats the start of the submission queue?
[01:22] <ajmitch> in a sense :)
[01:22] <mfgalizi> thanks ajmitch
[01:24] <mfgalizi> Should it be accepted, will I be offered the opportunity to maintain? (like the Debian mentors thing)
[01:24] <ajmitch> we don't have a strict concpet of maintainership as debian does
[01:24] <mfgalizi> ok, well, mission one is getting it in, i'll worry about the rest later.
[01:25] <ajmitch> you could certainly put up new versions for review & becoming a MOTU is much quicker than becoming a DD :)
[01:25] <mfgalizi> cool
[01:32] <ajmitch> mfgalizi: you may wish to put your name in the MOTUNewPackages page there..
[01:34] <mfgalizi> ajmitch, under "NEW Maintiner" ?
[01:36] <mfgalizi> my name is mentioned on the paged linked to by location
[01:36] <ajmitch> yes
[01:36] <mfgalizi> ok
[01:37] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[01:37] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[01:39] <ajmitch> because you enjoy pain
[01:39] <bddebian> Heh
[01:40] <bddebian> He's like Jeff then eh.. :-)
[01:40] <mfgalizi> ok, thanks all!
[01:47] <tseng> bddebian: eh
[01:50] <Burgundavia> tseng, because it builds character
[01:51] <tseng> yes
[01:51] <bddebian> Heh
[02:10] <bddebian> You have 43M Hoary CDs?
[02:10] <tseng> no, i have 70
[02:10] <tseng> give or take a few
[02:20] <tseng> ajmitch: did you get my mail to -devel
[02:25] <ajmitch> last one I saw from you was a couple of days ago about the maintainer's guide
[02:26] <tseng> yeah..
[02:26] <tseng> i posted on about main reviews
[02:26] <tseng> a few minutes/hours ago
[02:26] <tseng> ah i have it now
[02:26] <ajmitch> gmane has it
[02:26] <tseng> i *just* got it
[02:26] <doko> ajmitch: could you have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ginac/1.3.0-2ubuntu3/ginac_1.3.0-2ubuntu3_20050622-0050-i386-failed.gz
[02:26] <ajmitch> doko: alright..
[02:36] <ajmitch> doko: I'll update the existing dpatch for it then
[02:39] <doko> ajmitch: thanks
[04:15] <bddebian> So if I want to start doing some stuff, should I install breezy?
[04:17] <ajmitch> at least in a chroot
[04:17] <bddebian> pfft, chroots are for pussies.. :-)
[04:17] <ajmitch> how kind of you to say so
[04:27] <bddebian> Bah.. :-)
[04:34] <bddebian> ajmitch: You don't love me anymore either?? :'-(
[04:35] <ajmitch> only when you decide to be insulting & silly again :)
[04:35] <bddebian> Heh
[04:38] <bddebian> OK, I admit I'm weird, but am I really insulting?
[04:38] <crimsun> a bit grating at times.
[04:38] <crimsun> the language could certainly be a bit less colourful, too.
[08:10] <DanielN_> morning
[08:14] <\sh> moins
[08:17] <\sh> ahhhyes...my kde is running again
[08:38] <Lathiat> gnome never broke! ;p
[08:44] <\sh> kde also not
[08:44] <\sh> but X
[08:44] <\sh> Xkb at least ;) and then my .kde settings were f****up
[08:44] <Lathiat> ah
[08:44] <Lathiat> its all Xs fault ;p
[08:44] <Lathiat> gnome didnt get upset about buggered xkb tho,it just asked once about it? ;P

[08:54] <siretart> moin
[09:55] <DanielN_> argh
[09:55] <DanielN_> how can i check the right version compiled with gcc4 for the build deps (talking about cxx trans)
[09:56] <\sh> DanielN_: you mean gnome?
[09:57] <\sh> DanielN_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
[09:57] <DanielN_> \sh: gnome?? no, not gnome
[09:57] <\sh> whcih package?
[09:57] <DanielN_> soqt
[09:57] <DanielN_> unmet buld deps
[09:57] <\sh> DanielN_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/soqt/
[10:02] <DanielN_> \sh: well, the build deps are the same as mine, but it doesn't build??
[10:04] <\sh> DanielN_: put your buildlogs somewhere so that I can see :)
[10:05] <DanielN_> it's just the same as yesterday with aqsis.. but i don't know the right version
[10:06] <DanielN_> for the build deps
[10:06] <DanielN_> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: doxygen xlibs-dev xlibmesa-dev | libgl-dev libcoin40-dev libqt3-mt-dev qt3-dev-tools
[10:06] <\sh> in your pbuilder?
[10:07] <DanielN_> no
[10:08] <\sh> no?
[10:12] <DanielN_> \sh: i'm building on breezy direct
[10:13] <DanielN_> dpkg-buildpackage
[10:16] <\sh> oergs
[10:17] <DanielN_> oergs
[10:17] <DanielN_> ok :)
[10:17] <\sh> why don't u use pbuilder? it's easier to debug pbuilder package.dsc &> build.log
[10:20] <DanielN_> \sh, ok ok.. but that doesn't solve my problem...
[10:20] <DanielN_> how to find out, to what the deps must be changed
[10:21] <\sh> DanielN_: i can't tell you, cause I don't know what you have installed on your main system
[10:21] <\sh> apt-get install oxygen xlibs-dev xlibmesa-dev libcoin40-dev libqt3-mt-dev qt3-dev-tools
[10:21] <\sh> DanielN_: pbuilder would say which package he can't fetch
[10:22] <DanielN_> \sh, ok i pbuild it when i'm back from toilet ;)
[10:45] <DanielN_> hm.. seems that it builds with pbuilder :/
[10:46] <\sh> DanielN_: so you didn't install all the deps on your system...that's the reason why: use pbuilder
[10:46] <DanielN_> :)
[10:46] <DanielN_> \sh: you smoked how much today?
[10:47] <\sh> 10
[10:47] <DanielN_> ouch :/
[10:47] <DanielN_> for me: 2 *freu* :))
[10:48] <shawarma> Can someone please explain the difference between universe and multiverse?
[10:48] <DanielN_> multiverse are non free
[10:48] <DanielN_> if i'm right
[10:48] <shawarma> DanielN_: I see. What's in "restricted", then?
[10:49] <DanielN_> packages linked to stuff in main, but non free
[10:49] <DanielN_> if i'm right again ;)
[10:51] <shawarma> Ok... The why is restricted enabled by default, but not (un|mult)iverse?
[10:51] <DanielN_> no  security fixes
[10:51] <DanielN_> in universe and multiverse
[10:51] <DanielN_> that's why they are not enabled
[10:51] <DanielN_> by default
[10:52] <Lathiat> is anyone working with the debian guys to provide security updates wereposible?
[10:52] <ajmitch> yes
[10:52] <ajmitch> there's at least 1 person working hard on universe security
[10:53] <Lathiat> who?
[11:23] <herzi> ogra: ping
[11:26] <\sh> DanielN_: i will grab it now and try to upload
[11:32] <DanielN_> \sh, soqt?
[11:35] <\sh> DanielN_: jepp
[11:36] <\sh> DanielN_: u r subscriped to breezy changes?
[11:44] <\sh> DanielN_:
[11:44] <\sh> Urgency: low
[11:44] <\sh> Maintainer: Steve M. Robbins <smr@debian.org>
[11:44] <\sh> Changed-By: Daniel Neuenschwander <neuenschwander@dev.erased.ch>
[11:44] <\sh> Description:
[11:44] <\sh>  libsoqt-dev - Qt GUI component toolkit for Inventor - development
[11:44] <\sh>  libsoqt20  - Qt GUI component toolkit for Inventor - runtime
[11:55] <DanielN_> \sh, huh?
[11:56] <DanielN_> \sh, another question, what i don't understand yet: how are these debdiffs which we provide in the bts applied to the package? is this happen in the buildd's ?
[11:56] <\sh> no...by hand
[11:57] <\sh> or automatically via script .. but not on the buildds
[12:00] <ivoks> DanielN_: via patch program :)
[12:10] <DanielN_> ok guys
[12:10] <DanielN_> i'm leaving.. i toke free for this afternoon, harhar ;)
[12:10] <DanielN_> cu later
[12:12] <ivoks> i'm holiday in croatia :)
[12:12] <ivoks> s/it\'m/it\'s/
[12:12] <ivoks> argh..
[12:19] <ogra> herzi, pong
[12:32] <ivoks> ogra: i would like to join edubuntu
[12:33] <ogra> ivoks, great
[12:34] <ivoks> and maybe with time, fork project :)
[12:34] <ogra> are you already subscribed to edubuntu-devel ?
[12:34] <ivoks> nope, will do that...
[12:34] <ogra> yep, thats a good start
[12:36] <ivoks> i'm thinking to start corporate team
[12:36] <ivoks> that would produce server-clients enviorment
[12:36] <ivoks> it very much like edubuntu, so contributing to edubuntu would be good start :)
[12:38] <ogra> ivoks, that is what edubuntu is going for, yes... we start with one classroom and grow/shrink the setup in further releases...
[12:39] <ogra> skolelinux is dreaming of 50000 clients and 200 servers and the like...
[12:40] <ogra> so we'll try to scale up to this as near as we can :)
[12:40] <ivoks> hehe
[12:51] <siretart> does anyone happen to know if we have kolab (or even kolab2) in breezy?
[12:51] <ivoks> i was checking that app too yestrday
[12:51] <ivoks> we have koffice :)
[12:52] <siretart> a friend is looking for a groupware solution, and I try to convince him of ubuntu :)
[12:52] <ivoks> no, kolab isn't in breezy
[12:52] <ivoks> siretart: evolution-data-center?
[12:52] <siretart> ivoks: jepp. koffice and kmail and friends are the client parts. I'm talking about the server part
[12:52] <herzi> ogra: i have new hula packages
[12:52] <herzi> (built against hoary)
[12:53] <ivoks> evolution-data-server :)
[12:53] <ogra> herzi, why no breezy ?
[12:53] <siretart> ivoks: do you happen to know what would be necessary to syncronize evolution calendars and tasks? what kind of server software would I need?
[12:53] <herzi> i'm still on hoary (the X issue)
[12:54] <ivoks> siretart: i'm checking it right now
[12:54] <herzi> when i'm back from the linuxtag i'll build it against breezy
[12:54] <ivoks> siretart: i think it's localhost only
[12:54] <siretart> herzi: we cannot upload to hoary anymore, its released. if you want them included (I'd love to test them for my friend looking for a groupware solution), you would need to provide packages for breezy
[12:54] <ivoks> siretart: but you have opengroupware and phpgroupware
[12:55] <siretart> ivoks: that would be webbased only then?
[12:55] <ivoks> siretart: this two work with evolution/thunderbird/outlook etc
[12:55] <ivoks> siretart: no
[12:55] <ivoks> siretart: webdav
[12:55] <siretart> ivoks: phpgroupware have an webdav enabled server onboard nowadays?
[12:56] <siretart> last time I checked that (ok, about 3 years ago), I didn't find anythin in that direction
[12:56] <siretart> perhaps 2yrs.
[12:57] <ivoks> siretart: i'm sure for opengroupware
[12:58] <siretart> hm. he wanted to check egroupware, iirc..
[12:58] <siretart> ivoks: but thanks anyway. is on the list for evaluation.
[12:58] <siretart> must work on review-tool first ;)
[12:59] <ivoks> http://www.instantogo.com/ - nice :)
[01:00] <siretart> ivoks: yeah, I found that earlier today. but if I understood that correctly, they don't provide free downloads
[01:00] <herzi> siretart: you can tell your friend to take a look at http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/packages/hula
[01:01] <herzi> they should be fine for breezy too (as i also run them on sarge without recompiling)
[01:01] <siretart> herzi: that'll be great. we also installed sarge on the target machine, so I would recompile for sarge anyway
[01:02] <siretart> herzi: do you have a reference which lists the key features of hula?
[01:02] <herzi> www.hula-project.org
[01:02] <Burgundavia> hula is under pretty heavy development right now
[01:02] <Burgundavia> I would choose something more stable for a production system
[01:03] <siretart> herzi: would you consider hula mature enough for replacement of an exchange server for a small office?
[01:03] <herzi> no
[01:03] <siretart> :(
[01:03] <herzi> i think you should wait about 6 months
[01:03] <herzi> i'm using it for my personal email only
[01:03] <siretart> ok. thank you anyway
[01:04] <herzi> it mostly works
[01:04] <Burgundavia> in about 6 months, once they get the gmail-style interface going, it will rock
[01:06] <siretart> ic
[01:34] <\sh> ogra: ping
[01:47] <ivoks> hi/bye :)
[01:48] <\sh> Anyone interessted in building a MOTU InstantMessaging team?
[01:50] <asw> What is an InstantMessaging team?
[01:51] <ivoks> \sh: ?
[01:52] <\sh> Instant Messaging is clear I think, something like Jabber
[01:54] <\sh> so, the team should build an enviroment to have a good ammount of components etc. for jabber IM and build a server base for installing a jabber im solution directly from cd ;)
[01:58] <ivoks> hm...
[01:58] <ivoks> i think this could be inside one bigger team
[01:58] <ivoks> like corporate team
[01:59] <ivoks> with IM and groupware
[02:00] <\sh> ivoks: right now theres nothing at all :)
[02:00] <\sh> ivoks: the server pakcages for jabber are crap..i just updated jabberme.net/org/de with a new version of jabberd2 (compiled against hoary)
[02:01] <\sh> ivoks: the components right now, are only build against jabberd1, which is, sorry to say, obsolete for the majority of jabber IM developers
[02:01] <ivoks> i don't use jabber that often
[02:01] <ivoks> jabber can have server on one computer and clients in same subnet?
[02:01] <\sh> ivoks: u should.
[02:02] <\sh> ivoks: jabber is decentralized
[02:02] <ivoks> so they could use it wihtout contacting outside?
[02:02] <\sh> ivoks: sure
[02:02] <ivoks> didn't know that...
[02:02] <\sh> ivoks: sending messages is only one small part of the jabber idea
[02:03] <ivoks> ?
[02:03] <ivoks> what else?
[02:03] <\sh> jabber, better to say, xmpp is an xml stream protocol, where u can transform one protocol data into xml , transport it via jabber server, and on the other side, there is a client which can translate the xml data into native data and display it
[02:03] <\sh> or do something else with it
[02:04] <\sh> e.g. pubsub
[02:04] <\sh> there is a whole community which is using pubsub via jabber to get their rss feeds, or something else...
[02:04] <\sh> www.pubsub.com
[02:05] <ivoks> nice
[02:07] <\sh> there is more
[02:07] <\sh> sending mail to your im account...first it lands into your imap account, second it will be send to your IM client directly
[02:16] <\sh> ok..going home now...cu later guys
[02:16] <ivoks> bye
[02:20] <siretart> does anybody has a better name than "review-tool"?
[02:20] <tseng> lintian?
[02:20] <tseng> :P
[02:20] <siretart> nope. already taken
[02:21] <tseng> what are you making?
[02:21] <siretart> implementing http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool
[02:23] <siretart> how about uma?
[02:23] <siretart> :)
[02:27] <JRe> siretart: may be reviewforge
[02:27] <JRe> ;)
[02:28] <JRe> package-forge ?
[02:29] <JanC> "revu" ?
[02:29] <JRe> JanC: revu is cool ;)
[02:30] <siretart> We've chosen uma, reffering to the nameing scheme of dak ;)
[02:31] <elmo> uma's already in use in packaged dak
[02:31] <elmo> FWIW
[02:32] <siretart> oh.
[02:32] <siretart> I've seen it only on the "reserved for future use" list
[02:33] <JRe> siretart: in which language is coded review-tool ?
[02:33] <siretart> JRe: python
[02:33] <siretart> # Add a user to to the uid/maintainer/fingerprint table and
[02:33] <siretart> ok, found uma
[02:34] <tseng> is that thing going to integrate automatic pbuild/lintian/linda testing?
[02:34] <tseng> or just be a place for us to sanely comment
[02:35] <tseng> dont get me wrong I already like it
[02:35] <siretart> tseng: yes, this is planned for next step. we want to have basic reviewing functionality soon
[02:35] <JRe> i find that rock too :)
[02:35] <tseng> siretart++
[02:35] <tseng> great stuff
[02:35] <siretart> elmo: could you suggest an neat name? ;)
[02:44] <siretart> ok, will take JanC's suggestion: revu
[02:45] <JRe> siretart: yeah that is cool ;)
[02:50] <ogra> siretart, elma ;) (elmo automated)
[02:50] <ogra> (since it builds and tests the packages like he does)
[02:52] <tseng> we could call it grover
[02:52] <tseng> because he hangs with elmo
[02:52] <ogra> yeah, great :)
[03:28] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:47] <bddebian> Quiet today.  Have I scared everyone away?? :-)
[03:48] <JRe> lo
[03:52] <\sh> hey jre
[03:55] <bddebian> Hello JRe
[04:22] <Micksa> what's the deal with the mplayer/ac3 bug?
[06:33] <DanielN> hi folks :)
[06:34] <bddebian> Heya DanielN
[06:39] <DanielN> back from river :)
[06:39] <DanielN> now fixing libyehia ;>
[06:46] <bddebian> DanielN: Which river?
[06:47] <\sh> DanielN: your package went through :)
[06:56] <DanielN> bddebian, the Aare in bern, switzerland
[06:56] <bddebian> Ahh, a little ways away from me. :-)
[06:56] <DanielN> \sh, i saw .. i'm happy, thx ;)
[06:56] <DanielN> bddebian, from where do you come
[06:56] <DanielN> \sh, but need help again anyways.. got 5mins for me?
[06:57] <\sh> jup
[06:57] <bddebian> DanielN: Pennsylvania USA currently
[06:57] <DanielN> bddebian, ou.. well, i think there are a huge of larger rivers in US
[06:57] <bddebian> Yeah, we have the Delaware river close to us
[06:57] <DanielN> \sh, i'm working on libyehia..
[06:58] <DanielN> \sh, it's pulling out something about deps i don't understand, but look:
[06:58] <DanielN>  libsigcx-gtk-0.6-dev: Depends: libsigcx-0.6-dev (= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
[06:58] <DanielN>                         Depends: libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1 (>= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
[06:59] <DanielN> but this versions _are_ in breezy already :/
[06:59] <DanielN> these
[06:59] <\sh> aehm
[07:00] <\sh> DanielN: did u update your pbuilder?
[07:01] <DanielN> \sh, yes.. but sorry.. i found it already...
[07:01] <DanielN> libsigcx-0.6-dev isn't in the build deps *shame*
[07:01] <\sh> hmm..
[07:02] <\sh>  universe
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> libsigcx
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> libsigcx-0.6-2
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> libsigcx-0.6-2c2
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> ajmitch
[07:02] <\sh> 
[07:02] <\sh> DanielN: ask ajmitch if he uploaded already :)
[07:02] <\sh> same for libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1c2
[07:03] <DanielN> \sh: i'm talking about libsigcx-dev-0.6-2
[07:03] <DanielN> \sh: i'm talking about libsigcx-0.6-2-dev
[07:04] <\sh> DanielN: yes :) development packages :)
[07:04] <\sh> for the same libs
[07:05] <DanielN> away to eat
[07:05] <\sh> DanielN: if they're showstoppers for u right now, ping ajmitch :) and poke him ;)
[07:10] <bddebian> Dang, where is everyone today?
[07:11] <bddebian> mort_: THE moritz?
[07:11] <mort_> bddebian: the one and only
[07:12] <bddebian> mort_: How have you been?
[07:14] <mort_> bddebian: a bit pissed of, I thought I were home by now. trains in .ch don't work anymore
[07:14] <mort_> bddebian: great power outage :-(
[07:14] <bddebian> :-(
[07:14] <mort_> bddebian: how about you? feeling fine? /join #bub-n-bros
[07:30] <bddebian> bub-n-bros??
[07:33] <bddebian> mort_: I'm seeing if I can't get everyone in #ubuntu-motu to hate me like they do in #d-d   :-)
[07:37] <\sh> bddebian: we signed a letter of intend to not hate anybody for stupid questions :)
[07:37] <bddebian> heh
[07:37] <\sh> ok...away...for some hours
[07:40] <bddebian> Oh man, now no one is going to be here.. :'-(
[07:52] <tim__> can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial for building ur first ubuntu package?
[07:58] <bddebian> tim__: I haven't read it, but you can look at this one:  https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial_2fCDBS
[07:59] <DanielN> wow mort_ shows his ass up at ubuntu chans :)
[08:00] <bddebian> DanielN: Watch your language.. :-)
[08:00] <DanielN> bddebian, i'm sure mort_ is understanding this.. aren't you? :P
[08:00] <DanielN> or interpreting it correctly
[08:01] <ogra> bddebian, please dont advise people to use cdbs for their first package
[08:01] <bddebian> DanielN: Yes, but I got in trouble for saying pussy last night.. :-)  BTW, I was kidding
[08:01] <bddebian> ogra: Oh, sorry
[08:01] <ogra> tim__, try the debian new maintainers guide and learn a bit about debhelper and friends before you switch to cdbs, you need it first :)
[08:01] <Nafallo> bddebian: you should have said kitten :-)
[08:02] <DanielN> ajmitch, ping
[08:02] <bddebian> ogra: Do YOU know where there is info about the framework for building Ubuntu based distros?
[08:02] <ogra> bddebian, i only know there is a liveCD customization howto
[08:03] <bddebian> Hmm, I read on one of the pages about some framework for creating derivitive distro's.. :-(
[08:03] <ogra> but for rebranding you will have to look in other corners then that
[08:03] <bddebian> Well I'm mainly thinking about Ubuntu GNU/Hurd.. ;-)
[08:04] <ogra> bddebian, aks Kamion in -devel if you cant find something on the wiki... i know it was planned, but i'm not sure if it was a hoary or breezy goal
[08:04] <bddebian> ogra: OK, thanks
[08:04] <DanielN> ogra, are there any server related things to do for MOTU ?
[08:05] <ogra> DanielN server related things ?
[08:05] <ogra> you mean maintaining packages of server software ?
[08:06] <DanielN> well, short time ago i had a sleepless night, cause there were a huge of ideas in server stategies
[08:06] <DanielN> ogra, so, not only maintaining, but bringing in new ideas in the perspective of a good server distro
[08:07] <DanielN> difficult to say exactlier what i mean in english :/
[08:07] <ogra> DanielN sure...
[08:07] <ogra> wasnt there a MOTUServer team ? if not ? add one ;)
[08:07] <DanielN> ;>
[08:07] <DanielN> sounds cool
[08:07] <bddebian> hehe
[08:07] <bddebian> ogra: I think my second StinkPad showed up today.  So where should I start? :-)
[08:08] <DanielN> StinkPad ?
[08:08] <ogra> hmm, in malone probably...
[08:08] <bddebian> DanielN: IBM ThinkPad
[08:08] <ogra> bddebian, just garb a bugor two and fix it...
[08:09] <bddebian> ogra: Breezy stuff?
[08:09] <ogra> yep
[08:09] <bddebian> ogra: From launchpad?
[08:09] <ogra> hoary is non interesting for us
[08:09] <bddebian> Heya herve
[08:09] <ogra> yep
[08:09] <herve> hello everybody!
[08:09] <ogra> hi herve
[08:10] <herve> how was your "fte de la musique" ? :-)
[08:11] <DanielN> bddebian, Thinkpads are great with ubuntu.. have one at work
[08:12] <ogra> HPs are even better ;)
[08:12] <herve> DanielN, I want to sign "when" TONIGHT!
[08:12] <herve> Dell aren't :(
[08:12] <ogra> since the kernel gets HP patches for their HW :)
[08:13] <squinn> Question.
[08:13] <herve> questions are usually followed by a question mark :-)
[08:13] <bddebian> smart-aXX :-)
[08:14] <squinn> I'm not a packager, not even a MOTU. I just come in here to help..without being a MOTU. If I know there's a new package out, do I package it per DeveloperResources' says to, and then forward to maintainer?
[08:16] <ogra> squinn, only if it wont show up in debian in time for breezy... else you would duplicate the work...
[08:16] <ogra> so if you have something that doesnt exist in either of them and isnt likely to show up in debian soon, package it and put it on MOTUNewPackages
[08:18] <squinn> I said that wrong, ogra.
[08:19] <squinn> I meant a new version of a package currently in universe.
[08:19] <DanielN> ou.. hi squinn :)
[08:20] <DanielN> could someone say to me, how the win terminal services client is named in ubuntu? (i'm on wmaker, so no gnome menu)
[08:21] <herve> tsclient?
[08:21] <squinn> like the command?
[08:21] <squinn> is tsclient as herve said
[08:21] <DanielN> thanks :)
[08:22] <bddebian> Only 316 bugs.  Bah, I'll have those done by the end of the week.. ;-P
[08:23] <ogra> squinn, and this package is newer in debian too ?
[08:24] <ogra> squinn, then we just can sync it... else poke the debian maintainer or help him wth updating the debian package
[08:26] <therning> hi all!
[08:26] <squinn> ogra, i'll check
[08:26] <therning> I have a question about bug reporting on a universe package in Ubuntu, anyone around who might be able to answer?
[08:26] <squinn> packages.debian.org
[08:26] <squinn> right?
[08:26] <ogra> squinn, yep
[08:26] <ogra> therning, shoot
[08:27] <squinn> ogra, the old version still exists in debian unstable
[08:27] <therning> ogra, is reporting it in Malone enough or should I do something more? (e.g. send a mail to the Debian maintainer, or to a mailing list, or something.)
[08:28] <ogra> squinn, so mail the maintainer in debian and offer to help updating, or if you dont like that, pick a package that isnt packed yet
[08:28] <mort_> bddebian: oh no, that's terrible! why does #d-d hate you?
[08:28] <ogra> therning, malone should be enough
[08:28] <bddebian> Hello therning
[08:28] <bddebian> mort_: Because I'm a PITA :-)
[08:29] <therning> ogra, ok, cool... I've uploaded modified a package that solves the bugs as well, which I've noted in the bug reports... the packages are for Hoary though
[08:29] <squinn> ogra, mailing the Ubuntu maintainer, correct?
[08:29] <squinn> not Debian
[08:29] <therning> bddebian, hi!
[08:29] <ogra> squinn, nope, debian
[08:29] <mort_> bddebian: maybe you should change something on you... nobody likes PITAs
[08:30] <mort_> (although it reminds me off maxican food)
[08:30] <bddebian> heh
[08:30] <ogra> squinn, the desired process is always to fix stuff in debian and then only sync .... ubuntu has no individual package maintainers like debian
[08:30] <squinn> ogra, same guy, no worries
[08:30] <ogra> ah, ok
[08:30] <squinn> okay, so let me get this straight
[08:31] <ogra> btw, which package ?
[08:31] <squinn> basically most "fixed" things in ubuntu come from fixes in debian
[08:31] <squinn> amule, ogra
[08:31] <ogra> ah, i guess that has to wait for the new wx packages
[08:31] <plugwash> lamont any news on the bootstrapping of freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)?
[08:31] <therning> thanks for your time, I'm off to enjoy the tennis
[08:31] <ogra> squinn, nope, but fixes we _have_ to make should flow back....
[08:32] <ogra> squinn, a newer version of a package is not a fix
[08:32] <ogra> squinn, the problem is, if you do a fix only in ubuntu, you have to do it again on every update.... which is a hell lot of work
[08:32] <bddebian> Well it COULD be :-)
[08:33] <squinn> let me rephrase that then
[08:33] <DanielN> ajmitch, ping
[08:33] <squinn> all new versions of packages we get in ubuntu must be in debian first?
[08:33] <ogra> squinn, so to reduce our work we should always try to get our fixes beck upstream (debian)
[08:33] <plugwash> ogra that assumes that the debian package ever changes ;)
[08:33] <bddebian> heh
[08:33] <ogra> squinn, they _shoud_ be in debian first... sometimes that doesnt work.....
[08:34] <bddebian> ogra: Debian is upstream for Ubuntu?
[08:34] <ogra> sur
[08:34] <ogra> e
[08:34] <bddebian> Ack, I didn't know that
[08:35] <bddebian> So for an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd, I would want to rely on Debian?
[08:35] <squinn> i don't understand what you mean by upstream
[08:36] <squinn> i've heard upstream/downstream before
[08:36] <squinn> but i don't understand what they mean
[08:36] <bddebian> squinn: Typically upstream means the actual package developer
[08:36] <bddebian> or maintainer if you will
[08:37] <uniq> upstream is where we (you) get something from - downstream is whoever uses your stuff. afaik.
[08:37] <ogra> squinn, the _real_ upstream is the software developer who worte the software... he is also upstream for debian...
[08:38] <ogra> squinn, since debian pulls its packages dirctly from the programmer, he is their upstream....
[08:38] <squinn> ah, i understand
[08:38] <ogra> squinn, we pull our packages mostly from debian, so debian is ours
[08:38] <squinn> and ubuntu is the upstream for the user
[08:38] <bddebian> Wow, I hadn't realized that there was that much dependency on Debian.  Hmm
[08:39] <squinn> bddebian, neither did I, but I get it now.
[08:39] <squinn> I just read that Breezy right now starts off as a snapshot of sid.
[08:39] <siretart> re
[08:39] <squinn> or any new release.
[08:39] <ogra> squinn, and the coolest thing is to get your patches applied at the _real_ upstream... saves work for all parties
[08:39] <squinn> And then feature goals are set, and it is updated.
[08:39] <bddebian> It just never happens.. ;-)
[08:39] <squinn> ogra, lemme try to use a real life example.
[08:39] <siretart> elma's made good progress today, /me's currently fighting with mod_python...
[08:40] <squinn> Some of my friends here at the DocTeam have a problem with yelp and gnome-doc-utils that caused a bug.
[08:40] <squinn> We reported bug at GNOME bugzilla. Programmer made a patched new version.
[08:41] <squinn> So there's a new version. The package in question is gnome-doc-utils, in "main".
[08:42] <squinn> Our version is 0.20-0ubuntu1
[08:42] <squinn> That's across-the-board, from Hoary to Breezy [unsure on Warty, probably Warty too] 
[08:42] <squinn> Debian's version is 0.1.3-3
[08:43] <DanielN> hrmpf
[08:44] <squinn> and that version's only available in sid
[08:44] <squinn> er sarge*
[08:44] <squinn> sorry, sarge
[08:45] <plugwash> squinn sarge is now stable btw
[08:45] <bddebian> ogra: How do you differentiate yourself from Debian then?
[08:45] <plugwash> its etch and sid you wan't to be looking at for debians current stuff
[08:45] <ogra> bddebian, with the patches we do... there is a lot of stuff where things did/couldnt flow back
[08:45] <squinn> i know that, plugwash
[08:45] <ogra> bddebian, but you will se a lot of our stuff in etch
[08:46] <bddebian> ogra: So if you patch a Debian package, do you try to get them to apply the patch first and then re-package, or just add an "Ubuntu" patch?
[08:47] <squinn> 1.232 is latest version.
[08:47] <squinn> That brings up my dilemma.
[08:47] <ogra> bddebian, that would take to long, we apply it to our package...
[08:48] <DanielN> hrmpf
[08:48] <ogra> bddebian, but then offer it to the DD to add it to his package
[08:48] <ogra> so if we are lucky, he accepts hem and we dont have to care in the next version
[08:49] <bddebian> ogra: Well maybe I'm just thinking about it from the GNU/Hurd perspective but it's usually "interesting" to try to get patches applied. :-)
[08:49] <ogra> bddebian, yes, sadly...
[08:49] <squinn> .2.0.1 is in debian unstable hence why we have it in our main
[08:49] <squinn> [we have 2.0.0-ubuntu1 which i can basically say is pretty much the same thing] 
[08:49] <ogra> bddebian, but a major part actually flows back... gnome, xorg etc
[08:50] <ogra> bddebian, mostly through the fact that the DD also works for the ubuntu packages
[08:52] <bddebian> ogra: OK, so let me see if I get this straight.  I get foo-0.1 from Debian.  I make some patches for Ubuntu and make foo-0.1ubuntu1.  Debian does whatever and makes foo-0.2 without including the Ubuntu patches.  Now I have to re-pull foo from Debian and re-test/patch
[08:52] <bddebian> ?
[08:52] <ogra> yep, sadly...
[08:53] <ogra> most of the patches szill apply... but not all
[08:53] <ogra> still even
[08:53] <siretart> can anyone recommend a neat mod-python template engine?
[08:53] <siretart> this psp stuff sucks
[08:54] <ivoks> hi all
[08:55] <bddebian> Hello ivoks
[08:55] <ivoks> ogra: ping
[08:55] <ivoks> bddebian: hey, feeling better today? :)
[08:56] <bddebian> Better than what? :-)
[08:56] <ivoks> bddebian: better than "why doesn't anyone like me?"
[08:56] <ivoks> :)
[08:56] <ogra> ivoks, qong
[08:56] <bddebian> ivoks: Oh, I already know the answer to that. :-)
[08:56] <ivoks> ogra: is it ok if I start doing somethin with LDAP?
[08:57] <ivoks> ogra: and what is ContentFiltering? Squid based?
[08:57] <ivoks> ogra: (i'm talking about edubuntu :)
[08:57] <bddebian> ogra: So what is the benefit of MOTU vs. DD?  If I became a DD, I would be helping Ubuntu as much as/more than being an MOTU??
[08:57] <tseng> bddebian: it takes a very long time to become a dd
[08:57] <bddebian> I know
[08:57] <tseng> but it would probably help more
[08:58] <bddebian> That was more of a philosophical question
[08:58] <tseng> if you were interesting in sponsoring packages
[08:58] <tseng> i guess
[08:58] <bddebian> Well I have a few packages.  Problem is some of the attitudes that have invaded Debian (In my opinion anyway)
[08:58] <ogra> ivoks, i undestood ;)
[08:58] <squinn> ogra, so what do i do?
[08:59] <squinn> send this fixed package to debian or ubuntu?
[08:59] <tseng> siretart: are we calling it grover yet? :P
[08:59] <bddebian> squinn: Both?
[08:59] <ogra> ivoks, the ldap stuff is main.... leave it to mdz, but for content filtering we could really need ideas
[08:59] <herve> hi ivoks!
[08:59] <ivoks> herve: hi :)
[09:00] <herve> long time not seen :-)
[09:00] <squinn> bddebian, wouldn't debian put it in first and then we get it downstream from them?
[09:00] <siretart> tseng: current work name is revu, but I like elma :) - grover is also a good choice
[09:00] <ivoks> ogra: i tought creating ldap scheme for openldap, as a aditional package
[09:00] <ivoks> herve: yeah.. what's up? :)
[09:00] <tseng> hah
[09:00] <herve> ivoks: job pressure
[09:00] <squinn> hahaha
[09:00] <herve> difficult ending to a project
[09:00] <tseng> wow
[09:00] <ogra> bddebian, yes, but in debian you are a individual maintainer, you _own_ a package, its hard to drop it it takes ages to become DD etc... in MOTU you can touch every package (ok, we have preferred ones too but still..) and its all teamwork
[09:01] <ivoks> herve: i know the feeling :/
[09:01] <ogra> bddebian, the models are quite different
[09:01] <ogra> squinn, talk to the maintainer
[09:01] <squinn> debian or ubuntu? lol
[09:01] <ogra> squinn, (debian)
[09:01] <squinn> they're different this time
[09:01] <squinn> alright
[09:02] <squinn> what should i do?
[09:02] <squinn> just send source or..
[09:02] <siretart> bddebian: I'd also consider that the atmosphere and the teamwork is the main difference from debian. from a developers point of view
[09:02] <ivoks> ogra: contentfiltering can be done via squidguard and l7filter, depending how strong filtering you want
[09:02] <ogra> squinn, first mail him and tell him what you did
[09:02] <squinn> i didn't do anything yet, though, ogra
[09:02] <ogra> ivoks, but how reliable is that, i heard awful stories
[09:02] <ogra> squinn, ...or plan to do
[09:03] <ivoks> ogra: about? squidguard?
[09:03] <ogra> ivoks, yep
[09:03] <ivoks> well... it's based on couple of things
[09:03] <squinn> ok ogra
[09:03] <ivoks> filters by word in URL
[09:03] <ivoks> or by URL
[09:04] <squinn> what do i plan to do, ogra?
[09:04] <ivoks> so, you have total control... only it's hard do type them all :/
[09:04] <squinn> i'm so confused. all i want to do is update this package for breezy
[09:04] <ogra> squinn, then tell it the debian maintainer, ask him if he can update, so we can sync
[09:05] <squinn> okay..
[09:05] <squinn> then my whole major question
[09:05] <ivoks> ogra: i would love to come to summit, but money and time are problem :)
[09:05] <squinn> what in the name of any-spiritual-being-you-want does a MOTU do?, ogra
[09:05] <squinn> because if a debian maintainer does the updating and packaging
[09:06] <squinn> do MOTUs just fix bugs?
[09:06] <ogra> squinn, nope
[09:06] <squinn> Sorry, I'm sounding ignorant..but I'm just new to the whole Ubuntu structure.
[09:06] <squinn> Not new to Ubuntu, I've been here since Warty.
[09:06] <ogra> squinn, we package the stuff not yet in debian.... we _have_ to change things in packages for us you dont see in debian etc
[09:07] <ivoks> like no-question policy :)
[09:07] <squinn> But the majority of other universe packages from Debian are fixed by Debian maintainers, then, right?
[09:07] <ivoks> send bugfixes to debian
[09:07] <siretart> squinn: and we fix packages with ubuntu related fixes
[09:07] <ivoks> right
[09:08] <ogra> squinn, the ubuntu development is: 1. sync all the stuff from debian for some weeks... then freeze everything.... then fix everything and then release.... debian is only involved in the first setp
[09:08] <ogra> (and in grabbing the fixes for them afterwards indeed)
[09:08] <ivoks> :)
[09:08] <squinn> How can one tell the difference between an Ubuntu-related fix and a global fix?
[09:08] <ivoks> squinn: changelog
[09:09] <squinn> And then what would be the point if we've already synced from De
[09:09] <squinn> dah
[09:09] <bddebian> ogra, siretart: OK, thanks.  Wasn't trying to be arguementative, just trying to understand. :-)
[09:09] <squinn> ivoks, I know that. I mean how can I tell what to send to Debian and what to fix manually.
[09:09] <squinn> If it's not in Debian, first, I got that.
[09:09] <squinn> But if it is and it's an "Ubuntu-related fix", what do I do?
[09:10] <ogra> bddebian, i didnt feel attacked ;)
[09:10] <siretart> squinn: tell, us, and we'll prepare a fixes package if possible
[09:10] <ivoks> if it's changing source of program, then it's debian patch
[09:10] <siretart> squinn: certainly you can fix the package yourself and have it uploaded by us (after reviewing, of course)
[09:10] <ivoks> if it's adding .desktop or icons, then it's debian patch
[09:10] <herve> ogra, for a newly approved NEW package,
[09:10] <herve> I upload it and bother elmo?
[09:10] <squinn> siretart, right.
[09:11] <DanielN> ratatatataratatata :D
[09:11] <tseng> herve: elmo is automated, you dont usually need to bother him.
[09:11] <herve> hmmmm
[09:11] <ogra> herve, if you had your three reviews, just upload
[09:11] <herve> yoohoo!
[09:11] <DanielN> :)
[09:11] <herve> hi tseng by the way!
[09:11] <DanielN> go for it herve
[09:11] <ogra> herve, elmo comes back to you if he still finds errors
[09:11] <tseng> hi herve
[09:12] <squinn> ivoks, what makes an ubuntu patch then?
[09:12] <ogra> herve, (which absolutely shouldnt be the case after three reviews)
[09:12] <DanielN> ;>
[09:12] <ivoks> squinn: for example, we use sudo, not su
[09:13] <ivoks> squinn: so if you change startup to use sudo, it's ubuntu patch
[09:13] <ivoks> squinn: if you compile it to work with xorg, instead with xfree, then it's ubuntu patch
[09:13] <ivoks> squinn: you will see differences with time..
[09:14] <squinn> ahhhhhh i got it, ivoks
[09:14] <herve> ogra, if the package haven't regressed since I last review it, it won't!
[09:16] <ogra> herve, ?? but you had your 3 cross reviews ?
[09:16] <herve> and yes, that's still the package I reviewed a week ago
[09:16] <squinn> hm, i can't find the source
[09:16] <herve> ogra, yes, I'm the third one
[09:16] <ogra> oki
[09:16] <herve> I had a last whine
[09:16] <herve> now fixed
[09:16] <ogra> herve, go ahead
[09:16] <herve> well, whine, the md5sums of the tarballs mismatched
[09:26] <siretart> hm, looks like this mod-python stuff is more complicated then I thought.. hmmhmm
[09:31] <squinn> yeah, i can't find the source
[09:31] <squinn> yaknow why?
[09:31] <squinn> it's not released yet hah
[09:32] <bddebian> Pull it from "upstream" ;-P
[09:32] <tseng> what happened to breezy-changes?
[09:33] <squinn> bddebian, I'm talking to the upstream of the upstream right now.
[09:36] <bddebian> squinn: :-)
[09:43] <squinn> How often do we sync with debian?
[09:43] <squinn> Once at beginning of each release?
[09:44] <siretart> squinn: permanently until UpstreamVersionFreeze
[09:45] <siretart> squinn: see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/2005-June/thread.html for syncs this month
[09:46] <squinn> siretart, so whenever a new version or fix of a pkg ubuntu has goes into debian, it auto-syncs the package into our repos?
[09:47] <siretart> squinn: it goes only the debian -> ubuntu direction, yes
[09:48] <squinn> oooh that's cool
[09:51] <bddebian> ooohhh, ahhhh
[09:57] <tseng> ogra: what is the malone move date again?
[09:57] <ogra> i think around 6th of july ?
[09:57] <tseng> hm
[09:58] <tseng> i wonder if he pushed my changes yet
[09:58] <tseng> *looks*
[09:59] <tseng> no
[10:00] <tseng> (everyone should still be giving bradb feedback)
[10:00] <bradb> tseng: which changes are you referring to? i'm hacking on the bug page right now based on some of the convo we had. i think you guys'll like it.
[10:01] <tseng> bradb: mostly the hard-to-find assignment, and the less useful stuff hogging up Actions
[10:01] <tseng> good news
[10:02] <Goshawk> hi
[10:02] <tseng> hi
[10:02] <bradb> tseng: yep, that's exactly what i'm working on. haven't yet figured out how best to tackle the how-to-assign thing, but fully understand the confusion you and others experience (and I would too. :)
[10:02] <tseng> bradb: i actually found a harder-to-use tracker :P
[10:02] <herve> see you later dudes
[10:03] <tseng> I literally gave up before i figured out how to file a bug
[10:03] <siretart> cu herve
[10:03] <bradb> tseng: whoa
[10:03] <tseng> luckily malone doesnt suffer much from that
[10:04] <bradb> me too. trying to keep the fluff to a minimum in the bug UIs in Malone. doesn't take much to wind up with portlet graffiti
[10:05] <bradb> so, you guys gotta keep giving me the feedback. ;) it's really useful/fascinating to listen to what goes through a Malone user's mind.
[10:06] <bradb> if anybody else wants to schedule a user testing session with me, just let me know
[10:06] <tseng> ill do another one after you push what you are working on now
[10:06] <bradb> yeah, that'd be cool
[10:06] <tseng> see how much I can confuse myself
[10:07] <Goshawk> how to add a package to the universe repo?
[10:07] <tseng> Goshawk: post a link to your debian sources on MOTUNewPackages on the wiki
[10:08] <Goshawk> and... how to become a universe packager?
[10:08] <tseng> read links starting from MOTU page
[10:08] <tseng> like MOTURecruitment
[10:08] <ogra> Goshawk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[10:09] <Goshawk> thanks
[10:10] <Goshawk> and... last question.. what about a package that is in the hoary universe repo that is very old and should be upgraded (already mailed the maintainer but got no responce)?
[10:11] <tseng> you cant update hoary
[10:11] <tseng> its released
[10:12] <Goshawk> yes... i think for breezy, because the same package was in warty and hoary and on breezy it should be upgraded
[10:13] <tseng> well update it and put the package on MOTUToReview I think it is
[10:13] <Goshawk> thanks for your answers
[10:13] <tseng> no problems
[10:14] <ajmitch> tseng: RFP & ITP comparisons won't be as easy as I thought
[10:14] <tseng> ajmitch: :(
[10:14] <ajmitch> trying to match names
[10:15] <ajmitch> they'll be similar, but not the same
[10:15] <tseng> it might be easier when we sync to malone?
[10:17] <DanielN> could someone teach me in providing an ITP in debians bugtracker ?
[10:19] <ajmitch> DanielN: reportbug -B debian wnpp
[10:19] <DanielN> ahhh ajmitch is around
[10:19] <DanielN> :)
[10:19] <ajmitch> it gives you options for ITP & RFP
[10:19] <DanielN> ok thanks
[10:19] <ajmitch> not for long, I'm meant to be at work in a few minutes :)
[10:20] <DanielN> ok
[10:20] <bddebian> ajmitch!!
[10:20] <ajmitch> btw, trying to ping me at 5 or 6am is unproductive ;)
[10:20] <DanielN> but what about sigcx or something
[10:20] <ajmitch> tseng: probably, 90% of packages should be fine I think
[10:20] <DanielN> ajmitch, could you upload it then..  by time
[10:20] <DanielN> :=
[10:21] <ajmitch> DanielN: still got to extract the patch from the *evil* upstream source
[10:21] <ajmitch> preprocessing c++ template code with m4 is not nice
[10:21] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[10:21] <DanielN> argh :/
[10:21] <plugwash> lamont any news on the bootstrapping of freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)?
[10:21] <pvaneynd_> Hello, so if I understand the UpstreamVersionFreeze idea correctly, as debian maintainer I just have to aim to have a reasonable stable version in sid at the 6th. Then it gets sucked into breezy and is frozen except for bugfixes. To get changes into the frozen universe version I need to go through the MOTU. Correct?
[10:21] <ajmitch> DanielN: so I'll probably have it uploaded in a few hours
[10:22] <ajmitch> pvaneynd_: yes, or we can request a sync from elmo
[10:22] <ajmitch> universe freezes aren't nearly as strict as main
[10:23] <siretart> pvaneynd_: we have a sync queue after UpstreamFreeze, which is handled manually.
[10:23] <DanielN> ajmitch, cool.. then i can work on my lib :)
[10:24] <pvaneynd_> Great. I expect few changes anyway as I go offline from the 6th (great timing). This brings me to my next question: in the community meeting there was a mention of MOTUTeam requirements. Are they different from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto ?
[10:27] <siretart> pvaneynd_: well, I don't think we have any real requirements for founding MOTUTeams. If you want to found a team, then do some work and create a wiki page. and, of course, talk to us :)
[10:28] <ajmitch> afaik, they should be similar - teams don't have own mailing lists
[10:33] <pvaneynd_> Ok. I think I understand the process a little better. I'll try to find the gcc-4 problems sbcl has... Thanks.
[10:33] <ivoks> :)
[10:34] <bddebian> :-)
[10:35] <siretart> bddebian: wooohoo :)
[10:35] <ivoks> :)
[10:36] <ajmitch> oh dear
[10:36] <ivoks> lol
[10:36] <ivoks> If they are scared of text, they should really reconsider meaning of life.
[10:37] <ajmitch> ivoks?
[10:37] <ivoks> ubuntu-users
[10:37] <ajmitch> ah
[10:37] <ajmitch> some context would have been nice :)
[10:37] <ivoks> apparently, no splash boot is scaring people :)
[10:38] <ivoks> so this is my comment :)
[10:38] <ajmitch> of course it's scary
[10:38] <ivoks> it isn't
[10:38] <ivoks> it just needs few colors
[10:38] <ogra> siretart, a MOTU team must be led by a MOTU, thats the only requirement
[10:38] <ajmitch> I've seen people on windows be confused by an icon being moved on their desktop
[10:38] <ivoks> bringing framebuffer will bring lots of problems
[10:39] <ivoks> ajmitch: good one :)
[10:39] <ajmitch> bbl
[10:39] <siretart> ogra: oh, yes, but nothing hinders even a non MOTU having fun doing stuff :)
[10:40] <ogra> siretart, yes... but he should try either to become a MOTU or to find one for uploads ;)
[10:40] <tseng> ajmitch: thats my mom
[10:40] <tseng> ajmitch: she hates moved icons
[10:48] <ivoks> hi doko :)
[11:08] <lesliev> yoyoyo
[11:13] <doko> ivoks: hi
[11:26] <ajmitch> DanielN_atw: I think I've got sigcx patched from arch, testing build now
[11:28] <\sh> re guys
[11:30] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[11:32] <siretart> HA!
[11:32] <\sh> ajmitch: DanielN_atw poke you ? :)
[11:32] <ajmitch> \sh: several times, when I was nowhere near awake ;)
[11:32] <bddebian> heh
[11:32] <\sh> ajmitch: good ;)
[11:33] <ajmitch> \sh: it's still a matter of trying to pull fixes from arch for that one
[11:33] <\sh> ajmitch: what about a new version?
[11:34] <\sh> or using the version directly out of the VS?
[11:34] <ajmitch> the new version is the one in arch, in development, unreleased
[11:35] <\sh> ajmitch: hmm...try to build it? after all, we can release a <release version>+cvs<date>-0ubuntu1 or something...
[11:36] <ajmitch> \sh: that's a *maybe* :)
[11:36] <ajmitch> the upstream developer is the debian maintainer
[11:37] <ajmitch> we'd have to check that it's still API-compatible for libyehia to use
[11:37] <ajmitch> good news is that it builds now
[11:42] <\sh> ajmitch: strike :)
[11:43] <ajmitch> only had to patch 3 files, after using m4 :)
[11:44] <\sh> ogra: should I name the team: MOTUIM or MOTUXMPP or MOTUJabber ?
[11:45] <ogra> hmm
[11:45] <\sh> xmpp is the xml stream protocol behind jabber
[11:45] <ogra> i wouldnt pick a particular app/protocol name
[11:45] <\sh> but I like IM, cause we can be responsible for all clients as well
[11:45] <ogra> yep
[11:46] <ogra> and you can always have subteams
[11:46] <\sh> hmmm.MOTUIV is also free
[11:46] <ogra> MOTU4 ?
[11:46] <ajmitch> more people recognise jabber than xmpp, I think :)
[11:46] <\sh> no IV in veine
[11:46] <ogra> or does that mean I V ?
[11:47] <ogra> ah...
[11:47] <\sh> and I will propose an Ubuntu Jabber IM ;)
[11:47] <\sh> no problem with administrating it...
[11:48] <\sh> haha..2.0s8 is build on all archs
[11:48] <ajmitch> you mean username@ubuntu.com ?
[11:48] <\sh> ajmitch: thought off
[11:48] <\sh> but only for members or something like this
[11:49] <ajmitch> shouldn't be hard
[11:49] <schweeb> hey guys
[11:49] <ajmitch> you just have to convince the powers that be :)
[11:49] <ajmitch> hi schweeb
[11:49] <\sh> ajmitch: jabber.ubuntu.com is also possile,i could handle it on my own public jabber server ;)
[11:50] <schweeb> jabber is a relatively good idea
[11:50] <schweeb> for members
[11:50] <\sh> but a closed one is nicer
[11:50] <schweeb> right
[11:50] <ajmitch> bbl
[11:50] <\sh> but an open one, outsourced could be nice for the NewUserNetwork
[11:50] <schweeb> indeed
[11:51] <Nafallo> \sh: integrate it so that you have the same name and pass that's on launchpad :-)
[11:51] <schweeb> shouldn't be too tough
[11:51] <Nafallo> \sh: autoadding those in the membersgroup or something
[11:51] <tseng> hi
[11:51] <schweeb> wonder what launchpad is backed w/... mysql or something
[11:51] <\sh> Nafallo: if it's mysql backend, np, postgresql also no pb, and berkley db also not
[11:51] <Nafallo> \sh: and no public registration :-)
[11:51] <\sh> Nafallo: that's the reason why I can't host it...
[11:51] <\sh> jabberd2 has one limitation
[11:51] <Nafallo> \sh: I know. I've played with it ;-)
[11:52] <\sh> you can only have one client2server service...and c2s is handling the open or closed strategy
[11:52] <\sh> i have to frickle on it
[11:52] <\sh> right now, i have 5 sm's running and only one c2s
[11:53] <Nafallo> ah, thought you were talking about that it's not in main ;-)
[11:53] <tseng> most of the launchpad stuff is postgres
[11:53] <\sh> Nafallo: jabber1 is in main...jabberd2 is in universe...updated it today, cause jabberd2-2.0s3 is terribly b0rked
[11:53] <Nafallo> oh? kewl!
[11:54] <\sh> tseng: no problem...auth backend for jabberd2 db, mysql, postgres and ldap
[11:54] <tseng> hm do we need a jaber server?
[11:54] <tseng> vs free jabber.org
[11:54] <Nafallo> ehm, jabber is in universe according to my apt-cache madison :-P
[11:54] <\sh> tseng: jabber.org is terrible..too many outages
[11:54] <tseng> whats the advantage
[11:54] <tseng> I see
[11:54] <tseng> i guess we could have a directory also
[11:55] <Nafallo> tseng: integration with launchpad? :-)
[11:55] <\sh> tseng: and we can provide our own ssl stuff, so the internal communication is secure
[11:55] <tseng> eh
[11:55] <tseng> i dont want j random user sneding me IM off a bug
[11:55] <tseng> i reserve IM for friends
[11:55] <tseng> its more in-your-face imo
[11:55] <\sh> tseng: thats one thing , but information that a bug is waiting for u can be a nice pubsub idea
[11:56] <ivoks> \sh: you again :) with that jabber :)
[11:56] <\sh> ivoks: sure...:)
[11:56] <JanC> tseng : then just block everyone not on your contact list ?
[11:56] <ogra> guys gusy gusy
[11:56] <\sh> integration also with SER ;)
[11:56] <Nafallo> \sh++ :-)
[11:56] <ivoks> \sh: ok, count me in :)
[11:56] <ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient
[11:56] <tseng> when do we get shtoom anyway
[11:57] <\sh> aporpos SER...one of my goals.
[11:57] <tseng> $ apt-cache search shtoom
[11:57] <tseng> $
[11:57] <ogra> tseng, ask `anthony :)
[11:57] <tseng> daf packaed it months ago apperantly
[11:57] <\sh> i build shtoom last time
[11:57] <ivoks> ok... /me is ivoks@jabber.org :)
[11:58] <\sh> or sh@sourcecode.de ;)
[11:58] <ogra> tseng, i think he waits until the audio infrastructure is sane
[11:58] <\sh> email + jid ;)
[11:58] <\sh> but sh@linux-server.org is my main :) so please use it ;)
[11:58] <ivoks> lol, i will setup my own jabber server :)
[11:59] <ivoks> yay Nafallo
[11:59] <Nafallo> ivoks: :-)
[12:01] <\sh> 590 people right now on the server with only one entry on jabber.org and no webpage ;)
[12:01] <Nafallo> \sh: I had magicalforest.se on jabber before. but hoary didn't have jabber in main :-P.