[01:50] <judax> Greetings
[03:04] <judax> be back soon
[07:52] <froud> African greetings
[08:00] <jeffsch> hey froud
[08:01] <froud> hey jeffsch 
[08:01] <jeffsch> say, which tools have trouble with <?yelp:chunk-depth 1?>?
[08:01] <judax> Hey froud 
[08:01] <froud> jeffsch: well you simply cant validate it
[08:01] <froud> to validate you need to comment it out
[08:02] <froud> why
[08:03] <jeffsch> it always validated for me...
[08:03] <jeffsch> with docbook 4.3 dtd anyway
[08:03] <froud> using what xmllint
[08:03] <jeffsch> yeah
[08:03] <jeffsch> do other tools choke on it?
[08:03] <froud> from Xerces
[08:03] <froud> F A colon is not allowed in the name 'yelp:chunk-depth' when namespaces are enabled. quick-guide.xml file:/home/sean/ubuntu-docs/trunk/gnome/quickguide/C/quick-guide.xml 15:19
[08:04] <jeffsch> interesting
[08:04] <froud> if xmllint is not giving an error then it is a bug in xmllint :-)
[08:04] <jeffsch> i was just gonna ask that :-)
[08:05] <froud> the yelp: namespace is not enabled for docbook
[08:06] <jeffsch> i'm thinking just delete the <?yelp:chunk-depth 1?> entirely for the styleguide because yelp is not a target for it
[08:06] <froud> makes sense
[08:07] <jeffsch> default chunk-depth in yelp is 1 anyway, isn't it?
[08:07] <froud> yes, if you bump up the number the toc is collapsed to that level
[08:07] <froud> or the yelp chunk is done at that level
[08:08] <jeffsch> ok
[08:08] <jeffsch> I split the style guide into several files because that's what GNOME style guide does
[08:09] <jeffsch> and to learn a bit more about that stuff at the same time
[08:09] <froud> yeah that's ok
[08:09] <froud> you used external entities
[08:09] <jeffsch> so it won't cause more problems than it solves, you think?
[08:09] <froud> no, it is a std practice
[08:10] <jeffsch> the only issue i found is in a validating editor such as jedit
[08:10] <jeffsch> jedit doesn't like it with no dtd declaration
[08:10] <froud> yes, because the instances are not valid and well-formed independantly
[08:11] <froud> you must validate from the root
[08:11] <froud> or you can use xinclude
[08:11] <froud> that will make each xml-instance valid and well-formed
[08:11] <froud> so you can validate the instance
[08:12] <froud> but if you have xrefs to external instances then they will not resolve
[08:15] <jeffsch> froud, I could use your help on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/DocumentStructure
[08:15] <jeffsch> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/DocBookConventions
[08:17] <froud> jeffsch: is there such a thing as a constant structure?
[08:18] <jeffsch> there are general conventions
[08:18] <jeffsch> parts, chapters, sections, etc
[08:19] <jeffsch> when to use article tag, when to use book tag
[08:19] <froud> the most structure is in the doctype decl
[08:19] <froud> and then the *info nodes
[08:19] <froud> and the licenses at the end
[08:19] <froud> what goes inbetween is variable
[08:21] <jeffsch> yes, but it is easier to contribute and easier for readers if there is consistency of structure from doc to doc
[08:22] <jeffsch> consistency is my main concern
[08:22] <froud> Hmm, jeffsch I will try to see what is contanstant
[08:22] <froud> perhaps this week end
[08:22] <froud> I will add it in svn
[08:22] <froud> is that ok
[08:23] <jeffsch> no problem!
[08:23] <jeffsch> i see that kde docteam has a list of docbook tags that are verboten in kde docs
[08:24] <froud> yes
[08:24] <froud> we are not tied to that
[08:24] <jeffsch> we must take that into consideration in case any of our kde stuff goes upstream
[08:24] <froud> yes,
[08:24] <froud> for stuff that will be in vendor
[08:24] <froud> if people want to work in that way
[08:25] <froud> I try to do that on books like kynaptic
[08:25] <froud> but lauri watts is strict
[08:25] <jeffsch> i wonder how much of our stuff will be in vendor
[08:25] <froud> nothing
[08:25] <froud> vendor is a drop of upstream
[08:25] <froud> for example I will drop kde docs in there
[08:26] <froud> that way we can xinclude to our docs from there
[08:26] <froud> but this is not without problems
[08:26] <froud> kde also has a heap of external entities
[08:26] <froud> I cant find them now
[08:26] <froud> must speak to lauri about where to find them
[08:26] <froud> :-)
[08:27] <jeffsch> ahh, so if we do any work on kde docs in vendor, they will be for the kde docteam, and therefore according to kde style guide?
[08:28] <froud> yep yep
[08:29] <froud> but as I undersatnd it, this is a team decision :-)
[08:29] <froud> so I am waiting for confirmation
[08:29] <froud> I do have one problem though
[08:29] <froud> to do with i18n
[08:29] <froud> if we use xinclude from vendor/kde
[08:30] <froud> how will people in rosetta translate the parts that are xincludes
[08:30] <jeffsch> sounds to me like an argument against xincludes
[08:31] <froud> so we can work with upstream and benefit, but there is a down side
[08:31] <froud> it could be, but I preffer to look at it and resolve the problem
[08:31] <froud> what I am thinking
[08:32] <froud> preprocess docs that have xinlcudes and output to a completely resolved instance
[08:32] <froud> commit that file to svn
[08:32] <froud> upload that to rosetta
[08:32] <froud> as pot
[08:32] <froud> then on return route
[08:33] <froud> disagregate
[08:33] <froud> and move translations up stream to kde i18n
[08:33] <froud> a bit hectic
[08:33] <froud> but technically possible
[08:33] <froud> what do you think
[08:33] <jeffsch> I have no doubt that will work, but (speaking for myself only) it sounds like a complicated process with lots of steps
[08:33] <jeffsch> each step is an opportunity for screw-up
[08:33] <froud> yep yep, I agree
[08:34] <jeffsch> my preference is to just copy the stuff over (if allowed by license) and make the docs our own
[08:34] <froud> but do you understand the benefits of xi
[08:34] <froud> Ok that is one way
[08:35] <froud> have you ever seen howmany commits go to kde docs
[08:35] <froud> upstream I mean
[08:35] <jeffsch> no
[08:35] <froud> Hmmm :-) many
[08:35] <froud> now if you can harness the upstream comits
[08:35] <froud> imagine
[08:35] <froud> kde gets commit
[08:35] <froud> we merge it to our vendor
[08:36] <froud> our docs are updated
[08:36] <froud> powerful stuff ehe
[08:36] <jeffsch> yes, provided the upstream stuff stays applicable to us
[08:36] <froud> the trickle down is enormous
[08:36] <froud> well it does
[08:37] <froud> I dont see the point in forking upstream
[08:37] <jeffsch> what if kde changes standard menu, and kubuntu does not?
[08:37] <jeffsch> it is like that in gnome
[08:37] <froud> some stuff we can use and some not
[08:37] <froud> what can we use
[08:37] <froud> for example the stuff about the kicker
[08:38] <froud> or parts of Kcontrol
[08:38] <jeffsch> for example, it is more accurate to say that ubuntu desktop is gnome-based than it is to say it is gnome
[08:38] <froud> I have a vision that using and repurposing upstream is good
[08:38] <froud> jeffsch: agreed
[08:39] <froud> therefore our inlcusion of upstream must be selective
[08:39] <froud> and we cannot change xincluded parts that will move upstream to be ubuntu specific
[08:39] <froud> when making changes in vendor, we must be careful
[08:40] <jeffsch> hmmm.... careful is hard... more opportunity for screw-up
[08:40] <froud> yes, but the power is huge
[08:40] <froud> it totally leverages on the power of distributed development
[08:41] <froud> this is wht baz is a long term must
[08:41] <froud> with this power does come an amount of responsability
[08:42] <froud> also consider the two camps work methods
[08:42] <froud> at kde everyone with commit can patch a doc without informing th emaintainer
[08:42] <froud> at gnome you must first speak to the maintainer
[08:43] <froud> so one comes back to the question
[08:43] <froud> perhaps it is better just to work upstream
[08:43] <jsgotangco> perhaps
[08:43] <froud> dunno
[08:43] <froud> this begs the question, "What are k/ubuntu docs? What is there scope?"
[08:43] <froud> s/there/their
[08:43] <jsgotangco> you're more experienced on this what do you think
[08:45] <froud> I think that we need to repurpose upstream to fit the k/ubuntu 
[08:45] <froud> but with that comes challenges as you can see
[08:45] <froud> if you look at the outline for kubuntu user guide
[08:45] <froud> you will see that it follows the kubuntu desktop
[08:45] <froud> granted this is kde
[08:45] <froud> but it is not pure kde
[08:46] <froud> while kde docs are pure kde
[08:46] <froud> kubuntu has made changes to kde in order to make it kubuntu
[08:46] <jsgotangco> i dunno maybe later, im in no mood lately to look into these docs
[08:46] <froud> k/ubuntu docs are about the changes
[08:47] <froud> jsgotangco: :-)
[08:47] <froud> jsgotangco: it would make a good team debate :-)
[08:47] <froud> it would provide vision, purpose and scope
[08:49] <jsgotangco> i dont think i cannot contribute much in terms of technical stuff because i have none whatsoever
[08:50] <froud> jsgotangco: I think it is important that more people undersatnd these issues
[08:50] <froud> jsgotangco: otherwise I will make decisions and take more flack :-)
[08:50] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: you are selling yourself short!
[08:50] <jsgotangco> i think i'll just go back to translating from our team
[08:51] <froud> jsgotangco: part of the reason why I am having problems at the team is because of things like this
[08:51] <froud> it is hard for me to convey all these things
[08:51] <froud> but equally I need help from team members to make such decisions
[08:52] <froud> in the past nobody had such knowledge, but now I see people like jeffsch and gtaylor can help
[08:52] <froud> I would hope more will be able to do so
[08:52] <jeffsch> froud: then maybe slow down a bit... it may take longer, but in the end it will be stronger
[08:53] <froud> jeffsch: yes, I now realise that I must slow down
[08:53] <froud> jeffsch: but that has risks
[08:54] <jeffsch> if the technical hurdle in infrastructure is too big at the beginning, then much time is spent overcoming that hurdle
[08:54] <froud> jeffsch: the risk is that much work gets done without consideration and then has to be changed sometime in the future
[08:54] <froud> jeffsch: yes, and no writing :-(
[08:55] <froud> jeffsch: historicaly I made a technical decision because nobody else could
[08:55] <froud> as you can see, that has implicantions
[08:56] <jeffsch> froud: yes... you jumped too far ahead for us
[08:56] <froud> yes, and this is why I ask ppl to read Docbook XSL the complete guide
[08:57] <jsgotangco> *paid work*
[08:57] <jeffsch> wow! what's that like?
[08:57] <froud> Hmm jsgotangco my pay check is a long way off
[08:57] <froud> jsgotangco: as you know ;-)
[08:58] <jsgotangco> don't make me feel worse
[08:58] <jeffsch> hey jsgotangco, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/WritingForInternationalAudience
[08:59] <jeffsch> it's pretty much empty, and I have no experience working with translations
[08:59] <jeffsch> I was hoping that you and mdke could make a contribution to this section of the style guide
[09:00] <jsgotangco> i will research on the styleguide of others, i have no experience on doing this
[09:01] <jeffsch> see the gnome style guide. I was thinking of stealing a lot from the translation section of it
[09:01] <jeffsch> but I dnon't know what parts are good and what parts are bad (if any)
[09:02] <jeffsch> applicable part of gnome style guide is here: http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/locale.html
[09:11] <froud> jeffsch: you still there
[09:12] <jeffsch> only for a couple more minutes
[09:12] <froud> I wanted you to see something
[09:12] <froud> can you svn up
[09:13] <jeffsch> done
[09:13] <froud> then with pwd trunk/ do make faq-gnome
[09:13] <froud> its not totally working, but does what I want for now
[09:13] <froud> then open the output file pr01.html

[09:14] <froud>             <title>Text Editing</title>
[09:14] <froud> now compare it to in the faqguide
[09:14] <froud> from line 69
[09:15] <jeffsch> it's profiled
[09:16] <jeffsch> i'm guessing. i didn't actually look at it :)
[09:16] <froud> yes, so now people can see w orking example ofhow profiles work
[09:16] <froud> xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam profile.os "gnome" --stringparam base.dir $(FAQBASE)  $(HTMLXSL) generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[09:16] <froud> if profile.os "kde" then only kde is output
[09:17] <jeffsch> say, to change the topic, why do the gnome types use C instead of en?
[09:17] <froud> I dunno
[09:17] <froud> strange stuff
[09:17] <froud> but we get a wanted error in our build ;-)
[09:17] <jeffsch> is there any reason why we have to use C?
[09:17] <jeffsch> will it interfere with anything?
[09:18] <froud> what the error
[09:18] <froud> no, the docbook xsl will default to en
[09:18] <jeffsch> it's not the "expected error" that bothers me.
[09:19] <jeffsch> it's C instead of en that bothers me
[09:19] <froud> oh
[09:19] <jeffsch> it complicates things
[09:19] <froud> its a gnome thang
[09:19] <froud> agreed
[09:19] <froud> what can I do :-)
[09:19] <jeffsch> if we didn't use C. if we used en instead, would it break anything?
[09:19] <froud> you have a suggestion
[09:20] <froud> not for us
[09:20] <froud> if we are shipping html
[09:20] <froud> if we ship xml then gnome wants C
[09:20] <jeffsch> yo mean yelp won't do en?
[09:20] <froud> no yelp does not know about en on C
[09:20] <froud> only C
[09:21] <froud> :-)
[09:21] <froud> I am not sure of the reason for C as apposed to en
[09:21] <froud> I just accepted it and made a work around
[09:22] <jeffsch> ok. i have to run. c ya
[09:22] <froud> I am already in enough dwang with gnome stuff, don't really want more
[09:22] <froud> ok c ya
[09:23] <froud> me gone to for awhile c ya'll later
[12:50] <jsgotangco> night all
[12:51] <froud> night
[12:51] <mdke> night jsgotangco :)
[12:51] <mdke> morning everyone else
[12:51] <froud> afternoon is after 12 here :-)
[12:52] <mdke> nearly 12 here too..
[12:52] <mdke> still
[12:52] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[12:52] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[12:53] <jsgotangco> froud, please no infrastructure debates again :(
[12:54] <froud> why, jeffsch asked
[12:54] <mdke> nothing wrong with talking about em
[12:55] <mdke> jsgotangco, will you sort a meeting next week btw?
[12:55] <jsgotangco> ok nvm
[12:55] <jsgotangco> hmm a 2-week interval meeting is a good plan
[12:55] <jsgotangco> we still have to sort out some open issues
[12:56] <mdke> yes
[12:56] <jsgotangco> Styleguide for one
[12:56] <mdke> next week then
[12:56] <rob^> when is the next meeting planned?
[12:56] <mdke> yeah styleguide number 1 on agenda ;)
[12:56] <jsgotangco> let me check my calendar
[12:56] <mdke> maybe thursday again, if its a good day for peeps
[12:56] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[12:56] <jsgotangco> 30th?
[12:57] <rob^> what time zone are you in?
[12:57] <jsgotangco> im in a horrible +8 time zone
[12:57] <rob^> ah
[12:57] <jsgotangco> we can revolve around 12UTC and 22UTC
[12:57] <rob^> +10 here
[12:57] <jsgotangco> but that would leave jeffsch if we do 12UTC
[12:58] <rob^> kilo
[12:58] <jsgotangco> i don't mind 22UTC though
[12:58] <jsgotangco> (6AM)
[12:58] <rob^> that makes it 8am here
[12:59] <froud> mdke: what time is that for us?
[12:59] <mdke> 22utc is 23 my time
[12:59] <mdke> midnight your time
[12:59] <jsgotangco> alright, i'll call up a meeting again for the 30th 22UTC
[12:59] <rob^> that time zone are you in froud 
[12:59] <mdke> he's in SA
[12:59] <froud> mdke: OK
[12:59] <mdke> UTC +2 iirc
[12:59] <rob^> oh.. midnight
[12:59] <jsgotangco> anyone ok with 30th 22UTC
[12:59] <rob^> yeah
[01:00] <mdke> i am, although I'm sorry for you jsgotangco 
[01:00] <jsgotangco> its ok
[01:00] <jsgotangco> 6AM the sun is already up
[01:00] <jsgotangco> i can't do 12UTC because jeffsch for sure won't be able to attend
[01:01] <jsgotangco> ill put the StyleGuide on top list
[01:01] <jsgotangco> before anything else
[01:01] <jsgotangco> would a 2 week interval regular meeting be ok with you guys
[01:02] <froud> +1
[01:04] <jsgotangco> alright, ill whip up an agenda later and email when its done 
[01:04] <jsgotangco> as usual, agenda will be open for suggestions
[01:05] <jsgotangco> but open issues will be tackled first
[01:05] <froud> I have no issues
[01:05] <jsgotangco> no i meant past issues still open from previous meetings
[01:05] <froud> well no new issues
[01:05] <jsgotangco> great :P
[01:05] <froud> all issues are with you guys :-)
[01:05] <jsgotangco> argghh
[01:06] <jsgotangco> gee thanks a lot
[01:06] <froud> just teasing
[01:06] <jsgotangco> hmmm koffice in kubuntu instead of ooo
[01:06] <jsgotangco> interesting..
[01:06] <rob^> yeah
[01:06] <froud> yep
[01:06] <froud> Riddell want KOffice
[01:06] <jsgotangco> ill leave that to the kde expert (froud)
[01:07] <rob^> you can always install ooo if you want it though
[01:07] <froud> Not sure why he wants that
[01:07] <froud> KOffice is not as ready as OOo
[01:07] <jsgotangco> strange though unless Riddell wants a veryt KDE specific distro release
[01:07] <froud> But I guess this is KDE thang
[01:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:08] <jsgotangco> when i was with him and amu in sydney, they discussed a lot of very kde specific stuff
[01:08] <froud> Dont mind either way
[01:08] <jsgotangco> like appeal, etc.
[01:09] <mdke> froud, we can discuss the profiling thing at the meeting
[01:09] <froud> well Riddell is high up in the KDE heirachy
[01:09] <froud> mdke: up to you dude
[01:09] <froud> you have a working sample now
[01:09] <mdke> yeah i think that's a good idea
[01:09] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:09] <jsgotangco> sample?
[01:09] <froud> yeah do make faq-gnome
[01:10] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[01:10] <froud> see the log
[01:10] <froud> from morning my time
[01:10] <mdke> ah cool
[01:10] <froud> I suggest ppl look at it and try understand it b4 discussing
[01:10] <mdke> but we can't always read the whole log
[01:10] <froud> huh
[01:10] <mdke> posting to the list helps
[01:11] <froud> Hmmm OK
[01:11] <froud> will do now
[01:11] <jsgotangco> is this similar to make status
[01:11] <mdke> wicked
[01:11] <froud> yep yep
[01:11] <froud> still have bugs to fix 
[01:11] <mdke> we have lots of cool make tools now thanks to froud
[01:11] <froud> need nice solution for image control
[01:11] <mdke> froud, if you post em all to the list then everyone can use em
[01:12] <froud> he he
[01:12] <froud> slowly dude
[01:12] <mdke> when they are finished sure
[01:12] <froud> I just did the profile thing-a-ma-gingy to show you what I mean by profiles
[01:12] <froud> I understand now that many ppl dont know what I am talking about onmany things
[01:13] <froud> best way to show it is example
[01:13] <jsgotangco> nice strategy
[01:13] <jsgotangco> ok at least i can smile before i retire for the day
[01:13] <froud> mdke:  btw about logs see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForTheHasty
[01:14] <froud> topic: irc
[01:14] <jsgotangco> ok bye bye
[01:14] <froud> nite jsgotangco 
[01:15] <froud> um-pah, um-pah, um-pah-pah one of these days I'll be a dog
[01:15] <froud> me thinks of food
[01:15] <froud> later
[01:39] <mdke> _froud_, yeah i know where the logs are, its in the topic too, just that we don't all have time to read em all
[01:39] <mdke> gtg
[01:39] <mdke> bbl
[05:09] <Njal> Having a lil xml problem
[05:10] <mdke> hi Njal 
[05:10] <Njal> lo
[05:11] <Njal> Been writing in the how to find sites of interest in the userguide.xml for gnome
[05:11] <Njal> and i can't seem to get links working
[05:11] <jjesse_> hyperlinks or links in the wiki?
[05:12] <Njal> hyperlinks
[05:12] <mdke> you make links by referring to entities in global.ent
[05:12] <mdke> you should see plenty of examples in the userguide already, search for ulink
[05:13] <Njal> I use this
[05:14] <Njal> <ulink url="http://www.linux.org/groups/">Linux User Group's</link>
[05:14] <jeffsch> the end tag should be </ulink>
[05:14] <Njal> it didnt even like
[05:15] <mdke> Njal, the best way is to look at existing examples in the document
[05:15] <Njal> Dammit that was it, thanks, how did i miss that
[05:15] <jeffsch> oh, and a spelling thing: it's Groups, not Group's :)
[05:16] <Njal> kk changing that now
[05:17] <jeffsch> mdke: howzit goin?
[05:17] <Njal> um not sure if what i've wrote is good enough, should i just upload it to where ever?
[05:17] <mdke> jeffsch, good thanks, you?
[05:17] <mdke> Njal, you have to create a patch and send it to the list
[05:18] <jeffsch> fine... except for the dalek nightmares! :-)
[05:18] <jjesse_> hmmm can't understand why it won't let me be jjesse on this channel only allows jjesse_ :(
[05:18] <Njal> Daleks? You watch Dr Who?
[05:18] <Njal> KK patch, how?
[05:18] <mdke> Njal, the way to check your work and create a patch is explained at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[05:18] <jeffsch> Njal: yah
[05:19] <Njal> jeffsch: It's awesome
[05:19] <mdke> Njal, try and have a look at the Docteam pages, they are helpful and will save you time
[05:19] <Njal> thanks for the link
[05:19] <mdke> jeffsch, :)
[05:19] <mdke> wasn't it awesome?
[05:20] <jeffsch> yah. I can't wait for the finale.
[05:20] <mdke> heh
[05:20] <mdke> patience...
[05:20] <mdke> here they've already started the adverts for the christmas episode
[05:20] <mdke> weird
[05:21] <Njal> Really
[05:21] <Njal> When
[05:21] <Njal> I need to know about the xmas one
[05:21] <jeffsch> hmmm... a shift in the space/time continuum
[05:22] <jeffsch> there's trouble afoot...
[05:22] <jeffsch> the dr can
[05:22] <jeffsch> the dr can't be far behind
[05:22] <mdke> i love the big bad wolf theme
[05:22] <mdke> that was cool
[05:23] <mdke> Njal, just a warning, don't tell jeffsch what happens in the last episode
[05:23] <Njal> KK
[05:23] <jeffsch> yeah. I won't get it until tuesday
[05:23] <Njal> Where you live?
[05:23] <jeffsch> canada
[05:23] <jeffsch> vancouver
[05:24] <Njal> ah, your not far behind us, i was under the impression that everyone was still on episode 6
[05:25] <Njal> erm what's the email address i send my patch to?
[05:26] <mdke> to the docteam list
[05:26] <mdke> Njal, have you read the wiki page? :p
[05:26] <Njal> Yes
[05:27] <Njal> Though i will re-read it
[05:27] <mdke> thanks
[05:28] <jeffsch> mdke: can you help with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/WritingForInternationalAudience?
[05:28] <jeffsch> i don't have any experience with translation stuff
[05:29] <jeffsch> maybe much of the content can come from http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/locale.html
[05:30] <mdke> i don't have a lot of experience, but yes it sounds like that is a good idea
[05:30] <Njal> patch sent
[05:31] <mdke> thanks Njal 
[05:31] <mdke> when it arrives we will check it out and submit it
[05:31] <Njal> Would it be possible to get feedback on wether it's any good?
[05:31] <mdke> yes
[05:31] <Njal> thanks
[05:32] <jeffsch> mdke: maybe if you just look at the gnome stuff, and see what jumps out as right and what is not so right
[05:32] <jeffsch> then let me know, and then I'll do the ubuntu stuff
[05:32] <mdke> looking now
[05:32] <jeffsch> no rush
[05:32] <mdke> one thing I was thinking about recently
[05:33] <mdke> is the use of &quot; and &apos;
[05:33] <mdke> because obviously in some languages they will not be used in the same way
[05:33] <mdke> dunno what the answer to that is
[05:34] <jeffsch> hmmm... i think the purpose of &quot; is to make sure that the same unicode code is used consistently
[05:34] <jeffsch> the double quote has more than one code in the character tables
[05:35] <mdke> yes
[05:35] <jeffsch> sometimes " and other times smart quotes
[05:35] <mdke> yeah
[05:35] <mdke> i guess its down to the translator
[05:36] <mdke> but sometimes translators don't know what to do with entities
[05:36] <mdke> so far that gnome doc looks good
[05:36] <mdke> lots of our documentation violates it ;)
[05:36] <jeffsch> i suppose if we're not careful, some entities will need translating, and others won't
[05:36] <mdke> exactly
[05:39] <mdke> jeffsch, ok have read the gnome doc, looks good
[05:40] <Njal> anyway i have to go
[05:40] <Njal> i will talk later perhaps when i have something more to submit
[05:40] <mdke> Njal, 
[05:40] <mdke> your email hasn't arrived yet
[05:41] <Njal> It's been bounced pending mods decision
[05:41] <mdke> Njal, you're not subscribed to the docteam list?
[05:41] <Njal> as a guest
[05:41] <mdke> subscribing is a really good idea
[05:41] <mdke> that way you find out what we are doing and so on
[05:41] <Njal> I went through the subscription process
[05:41] <Njal> i get emails from the list loads
[05:42] <mdke> hmm
[05:42] <mdke> if you're subscribed you should be able to post
[05:42] <Njal> I know, i don't claim to know what's going on
[05:42] <mdke> hmm
[05:43] <mdke> list info is here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[05:43] <mdke> what's your email address, i'll see if you're subscribed
[05:44] <Njal> neilmunro@gmail.com
[05:45] <mdke> you're not subscribed
[05:47] <Njal> oh right
[05:47] <Njal> I'll just re-join then
[05:47] <mdke> cool
[05:47] <Njal> that's really odd
[05:48] <mdke> if you subscribed when the list was down, that might have been the problem
[05:49] <Njal> ah
[05:49] <Njal> im just waiting for the subscribe email
[05:49] <mdke> k
[06:31] <abelli_> halo mora.
[07:03] <Njal> that's odd
[07:03] <Njal> As soon as i log in here i get my confimation email that i am now a member
[08:15] <squinn> hey, _froud_