[12:01] <\sh> Nafallo: for what do u need it in main?
[12:02] <\sh> Nafallo: problem right now with ubuntu is, every component is compiled against jabberd1 and this is in my eyes obsolete.
[12:02] <Nafallo> \sh: my serverpolicy is to only use stuff from main :-)
[12:02] <ivoks> :)
[12:02] <tseng> Nafallo: i missed spamassassin
[12:02] <\sh> so on my hoary ubuntu rootie i installed some components for jabberd2 and trying to package it
[12:02] <ivoks> Nafallo: and you are security team for main? :)
[12:03] <ivoks> doh.. universe
[12:03] <ivoks> not main
[12:03] <Nafallo> ivoks: naah, that's pitti. I'm in the securityteam though :-).
[12:03] <\sh> to move my postfix+cyrus-imapd+cyrus-sasl stuff from gentoo to ubuntu, I used an experimental cyrus-imapd ;) and it worked nicely with our postfix + sasl implementation
[12:03] <ivoks> i use dovecot
[12:04] <tseng> me too
[12:04] <tseng> its much smaller
[12:04] <ivoks> easy, fast
[12:04] <ivoks> and has tons of options
[12:04] <tseng> i dunno about easy
[12:04] <tseng> the config at first is pretty bong-tastic
[12:04] <Nafallo> dovecot-imap+postfix-tls :-)
[12:05] <\sh> postfix backend, cyrus imapd backend, sasl backend, bind backend, and some other stuff has as database mysql running ;) so I can see everything :)
[12:05] <tseng> i need to hack up postfix + dovecot to mysql again
[12:05] <tseng> like i had with courier before
[12:06] <tseng> if anyone has a prerolled solution, do tell
[12:06] <ivoks> dovecot(imap,pop,imaps,pop3s)-postfix(tls,sasl)-amavisd-spamassassin-razor-sophos-nod32 :)
[12:06] <tseng> hm hey
[12:06] <tseng> i should blog it
[12:07] <ivoks> dotUbuntu
[12:08] <ivoks> sounds like MSPassport and .Mac
[12:08] <tseng> not like mspassport
[12:08] <ivoks> we should really invent something new
[12:08] <tseng> its not insecure or evil
[12:09] <TMM> hey, just out of curiousity, any chance for a reiser4 install option with breezy?
[12:09] <ivoks> tseng: people will see it as a copy, despite better or secure implementation
[12:09] <TMM> or is that one of those :"if you want it, implement it" things?
[12:09] <TMM> :)
[12:09] <tseng> ivoks: who cares what the little kids on osnews say about it?
[12:09] <ivoks> this question should go to #ubuntu-devel
[12:09] <tseng> ivoks: they can piss off, its useful
[12:09] <tseng> to have a single sign in to ubuntu hosted service
[12:09] <tseng> s
[12:10] <TMM> ivoks, ok, sorry
[12:10] <ivoks> tseng: o'm not talking about kids
[12:10] <ivoks> i'm talking about buissness
[12:10] <tseng> businesses need shtoom voip and malone?
[12:10] <ivoks> "ok, they have .ubuntu, hm... just as MS and Apple"
[12:10] <TMM> hey, just out of curiousity, any chance for a reiser4 install option with breezy?
[12:10] <TMM> sigh
[12:10] <TMM> my copy/paste skills suck
[12:11] <tseng> TMM: crossposting is not cool :(
[12:11] <\sh> TMM: wronge place to ask :) kernel is main -> main is #ubuntu-devel
[12:11] <TMM> tseng, I was supposed to ask in another channel... how else am I supposed to do that? :)
[12:13] <ivoks> uh, i really want to make ubuntu corporate platform :)
[12:14] <ivoks> like, synced calendars, localnetwork IM, user managmend via ldap
[12:15] <\sh> ivoks: kolab2  + jabber + xmpp pubsub + ical
[12:16] <\sh> or replace kolab2 with hula
[01:37] <tseng> Lathiat++
[01:41] <Lathiat> tseng: ?
[01:49] <tseng> blog comment
[01:50] <Lathiat> oh,c ool
[01:50] <Lathiat> yeh it rocks totally
[01:51] <tseng> yeah tell him to hurry up
[01:51] <Lathiat> will do
[01:51] <Lathiat> microsoft is at linuxtag?interesting
[01:51] <tseng> of course they are
[01:51] <tseng> they are at linuxworld for years
[01:51] <Lathiat> well, ive neverbeen to anythign like linuxtagor linuxworld
[01:51] <Lathiat> imstuck here in asutralia :)
[01:52] <Lathiat> australia :)
[01:52] <Lathiat> we have linux.,conf.au, which rocks, but we dont have anythign morecommercial
[01:52] <Lathiat> altho aparently.. (linuxworld?) is coming here
[01:52] <djm62> I have a package error: it tries to overwrite a file owned by another package.  I can force install, but how do I fix the error?
[01:53] <tseng> is it a package you made?
[01:54] <djm62> no, it's a package I found compiled for (I think) breezy, and compiled for hoary
[01:54] <djm62> easier than upgrading libc6 ;)
[01:54] <tseng> uh
[01:55] <Nafallo> tseng: it's obviously compiled for hoary and breezy? :-)
[01:56] <djm62> oh, no I got the source, patched it, and compiled it on my hoary machine
[01:56] <djm62> sorry, should have disambiguated that
[01:57] <djm62> so the binary was for breezy, and now I have a binary for hoary
[01:58] <Nafallo> djm62: that's non-supportable
[01:58] <djm62> Nafallo: against policy?
[01:59] <Nafallo> djm62: let me just say. good luck ;-).
[01:59] <djm62> Nafallo: it works fine, my machine is good
[01:59] <Nafallo> djm62: suit yourself
[02:00] <djm62> the issue is, the current version of electricsheep (the server) breaks compatibility with the client included in hoary.  the hoary client doesn't work anymore.
[02:01] <ogra> djm62, really ?
[02:02] <djm62> the .deb package available for download isn't compatible with hoary, and this guy came into #ubuntu wanting to know how to upgrade libc6.  since people aren't meant to be using breezy yet unless they know what they're doing, I thought it would be useful to have a version of electricsheep compiled for hoary
[02:02] <ogra> djm62, what does it try to overwrite
[02:02] <djm62> ogra: electricsheep.xml
[02:02] <djm62> (just checking exactly what)
[02:02] <ogra> in xscreensaver ?
[02:03] <djm62> ogra: yeah
[02:03] <djm62> I guessed that that was safe enough to overwrite, and it was (it works)
[02:04] <bddebian> ogra: Whom did you say I should ask about the distro framework?
[02:04] <ogra> hmm.... it wont be different....
[02:04] <djm62> this file: /usr/share/xscreensaver/config/electricsheep.xml
[02:04] <ogra> bddebian, Kamion if he's around again
[02:05] <ogra> djm62, yep
[02:05] <djm62> ogra: it is different, because it mentions the version number if nothing else...
[02:07] <bddebian> ogra: Ah, OK, thanks
[02:07] <ogra> djm62, it also holds the options, i meant these.... i'm just wondering how that worked in hoary before, because this file shouldnt be in the electricsheep package
[02:07] <bddebian> ogra: Well my Stinkpad did show up today so I'm installing.. ;-P
[02:08] <ogra> goahead :)
[02:10] <bddebian> The installer is doing wierd things to the display though!?
[02:13] <djm62> ogra: nothing about it mentioned in the xscreensaver changelog
[02:13] <ogra> djm62, nope, i would know it ;)
[02:14] <djm62> ogra: obviously I was reading very closely... ;)
[02:14] <ogra> djm62, i was rather wondering why it is in electricsheep too...
[02:15] <djm62> ogra: I can't think where the "right" place for it would be
[02:16] <squinn> hold on
[02:16] <squinn> ogra, question
[02:16] <ogra> djm62, /usr/share/xscreensaver/config/electricsheep.xml is the right place, but there should be no concurring files... only one is valid and given that xscreensaver can be installed without electricshhep it should be hosted in there....
[02:16] <squinn> a user wants a package in ubuntu to be upgraded
[02:16] <squinn> in  breezy
[02:16] <bddebian> Hello again squinn :)
[02:16] <squinn> hey, bddebian
[02:16] <squinn> and it's updated in sid
[02:16] <squinn> so how will it get from sid to breezy
[02:17] <squinn> seeing as update occured 30 April 2005
[02:17] <tseng> is there an XubuntuX version?
[02:17] <squinn> yes
[02:17] <tseng> that will block it
[02:17] <squinn> ah i see
[02:17] <tseng> until someone manually merges it
[02:17] <ogra> yes, it might already wait in MUMs queue
[02:18] <ogra> squinn, which package
[02:18] <squinn> "kismet"
[02:18] <ogra> err MOMs
[02:18] <squinn> MUM?
[02:18] <squinn> MOM*?
[02:18] <ogra> Merge-O-Matic
[02:18] <ogra> squinn, yes, jdub already poked me on monday about it :)
[02:19] <djm62> ogra: but if I remove the file from electricsheep how will updated options be available?
[02:19] <Nafallo> squinn: I've filed a bug in Malone about kismet :-)
[02:19] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/kismet/
[02:20] <squinn> Nafallo, I'm talking about you then.
[02:20] <ogra> djm62, no, thats my task... i have to move the new options of electricsheep into the new xscreensaver
[02:20] <djm62> ogra: not to hassle you, just trying to make things work in the Right Way
[02:20] <djm62> ogra: which scuppers the hoary version of electricsheep :(
[02:21] <ogra> djm62, and rip it out of the electricsheep package (or supress its installation if xss is installed)
[02:21] <Nafallo> squinn: hehe
[02:21] <ogra> djm62, normally hoary updates dont happen.....
[02:21] <ogra> djm62, so its up to you how you handle it
[02:22] <djm62> ogra: yeah, but a package like electricsheep is just the sort of thing that people will upgrade to breezy for then regret it and hate ubuntu :-/  I only built it to stop someone doing that
[02:22] <djm62> it seems daft
[02:23] <tseng> ogra: oops
[02:24] <tseng> im thinking of updating my desktop when mythtv is fixed
[02:24] <ogra> tseng, poke mdz... its his toy :)
[02:24] <tseng> i know
[02:24] <tseng> i tried to fix it myself
[02:24] <tseng> its a stupid xorg include thing
[02:24] <ogra> heh... xorg
[02:25] <tseng> and a renamed qt lib
[02:25] <tseng> libqt3c102-mt-mysql -> libqt-mt-mysql
[02:25] <tseng> he is probably too busy
[02:25] <ogra> yep
[02:25] <tseng> or would have fixed it already
[02:25] <ogra> he is
[02:26] <tseng> i need to try iFolder
[02:26] <tseng> to sync my /home's
[02:27] <djm62> one last question...if my package works for some test installs, am I okay to put it on a webpage for cases where someone wants it anyway anyhow?  I won't bother if it's going to cause hassle to proper devs
[02:27] <ogra> tseng, dont do it... it wont make you happy
[02:27] <tseng> ogra: you used it?
[02:27] <tseng> luis seemed to sort of like it
[02:27] <ogra> tseng, nope, but i know people who tried it....
[02:27] <tseng> and luis is a sane man
[02:27] <ogra> thats true
[02:28] <tseng> i dont want to nfs /home
[02:28] <ogra> djm62, its a screensaver
[02:28] <tseng> but i want to have the same files
[02:28] <ogra> djm62, not libc or the kernel ;)
[02:28] <tseng> w/o extra work
[02:28] <djm62> :) entendu
[02:29] <djm62> (people can be touchy, and I'm new to this, so I tread carefully)
[02:29] <ogra> tseng, whats wrong with nfs home ?
[02:29] <tseng> ogra: my main machine is a laptop
[02:29] <tseng> ogra: i travel with it
[02:29] <tseng> to work, appt, parent's house
[02:29] <tseng> apartment
[02:29] <tseng> abbreviations are bad for non-english speakers
[02:29] <tseng> we should cut them out
[02:29] <Nafallo> tseng: rsync+ssh?
[02:30] <tseng> Nafallo: work!
[02:30] <ogra> djm62, its very nice that you ask :) really.... but we have to deal with people who backport non working mono stuff and dont ask (or even test it) so i think we can afford a screensaver backport :)
[02:31] <tseng> ph34r broken screensavers
[02:31] <ogra> heh
[02:31] <Nafallo> tseng: ehm. sync _before_ and _after_ work :-)
[02:32] <ogra> tseng, just install some wireless hubs between your flat and your parents house and you are fine...
[02:32] <ogra> hey and there is always gprs :)
[02:32] <ogra> tseng, try ifolder and tell me about, nobody of the guys around me that tested it kept it....
[02:33] <tseng> eh why is there a buy now button on ifolder
[02:33] <tseng> it was all GPL iirc
[02:34] <ogra> only the peer to peer mode
[02:34] <tseng> well thats what i need i guess
[02:34] <ogra> you have to buy the server if you want to run in server/client mode
[02:36] <Nafallo> ogra: you are handling kismet? :-)
[02:36] <tseng> it needs xsp? wth
[02:36] <ogra> Nafallo, feel free ;)
[02:37] <ogra> Nafallo, i have enough on my desk... grab and merge it if you like :)
[02:38] <Nafallo> ogra: if you promise to review and upload ;-). shall I assign my bug about it to you or me? :-)
[02:38] <ogra> Nafallo, put me on CC
[02:39] <tseng> ogra: yeah this ifolder stuff looks like alot of work
[02:39] <ogra> yep
[02:39] <Nafallo> k. I'll assign it to me, otherwize I might forget about it :-).
[02:40] <ogra> Nafallo, i'l grab it if it takes to long (i.e. if jdub starts to bug me more about it) ;)
[02:41] <Nafallo> ogra: fine :-)
[02:41] <Nafallo> later today our time though. time for bed :-).
[02:41] <Nafallo> night all!
[02:42] <bddebian> Gnight
[02:48] <tseng> oh yeah does anyone use a apt caching tool?
[02:48] <tseng> if so which one
[02:48] <ogra> night Nafallo
[02:49] <ajmitch> I used to use apt-proxy
[02:50] <ajmitch> which I'll probably switch back to now that my proxy box is upgraded to sarge
[02:51] <tseng> ajmitch: is that the scary one?
[02:51] <ajmitch> probably
[02:52] <ajmitch> you set it as your apt source & it fetches & caches everything
[02:52] <tseng> yes
[02:52] <ajmitch> s/least/latest/
[02:54] <ajmitch> looks like there's a bunch of opengl games to transition to the new x.org package names
[03:11] <bddebian> shit, keyboard blew on x config.. :-(
[03:24] <tseng> ajmitch: hm this thing is ok
[03:25] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, people on linux don't play games anyway
[03:28] <riffic> hi i was told to "Step up and package it." regarding musepack plugins for gstreamer for breezy
[03:28] <riffic> in the forums
[03:46] <ajmitch> riffic: alright, packaged stuff before? :)
[03:46] <bddebian> ajmitch: Fix my warty install.. :'-(
[03:46] <ajmitch> bddebian: warty? why would you run that antique? ;)
[03:47] <bddebian> ajmitch: Because it's the only CD I have handy that I got at FOSDEM.. :-)
[03:48] <ajmitch> bddebian: so how did you break it? btw, breakage fixing is generally reserved to #ubuntu
[03:48] <tseng> i guess this is safe
[03:49] <bddebian> ajmitch: I asked in there.. :-(
[03:49] <bddebian> ajmitch: Dunno, the keyboard is unresponsive after getting to the timezone config.  Can't switch terminals, cant select a region, nada.. :-(
[03:49] <ajmitch> fun
[03:49] <bddebian> No, not really :-)
[03:49] <ajmitch> and you expect that I can help?
[03:50] <bddebian> I was hoping..  I want to get to work man.. :-)
[03:53] <riffic> ajmitch: hah, no
[03:53] <riffic> sorry =/
[03:53] <riffic> but i can learn
[03:54] <riffic> what version of gstreamer is being tracked for breezy anyways? no plans to use .9 ?
[03:55] <ajmitch> anyone around to help riffic out? I'm at work at the moment
[03:55] <ajmitch> riffic: whatever is in debian, .9 won't be API/ABI stable until 0.10, afaik
[03:56] <tseng> well fluendo is going to work 100% on .9
[03:56] <tseng> so it will go fast
[03:56] <tseng> they have 4 or 5 guys
[04:02] <riffic> http://www.gnome.org/~martink/2005/stuff/Screenshot-nautilus-hierarchical.png < this looks quite awesome
[04:11] <tseng> riffic: it looks painfully hard to use on a laptop
[04:11] <tseng> clicking those tiny little arrows is impossible
[04:15] <schweeb> tseng: you could always double click on the entire line to get the same result
[04:16] <tseng> i guess
[04:16] <schweeb> is it my laptop, or is the antialiasing on those fonts screwed up... r/g/b misalignment
[04:16] <tseng> im not trying that thing until it makes itin a release
[04:16] <tseng> schweeb: it is
[04:16] <tseng> they have a tiny shadow of odd color
[04:38] <ajmitch> I wonder who uploaded rfb..
[04:38] <ajmitch> ah, doko did
[04:43] <dle> Greetings.  I'm an Ubuntu user.  I'm interested in becoming a package maintainer for an app not yet packaged for either Ubuntu or (afaik) Debian.  I'm wondering if I should begin this via Ubuntu or go upstream and use the debian process.  Any thoughts or recommendations?  (I just asked this in #ubuntu-devel and someone directed me here.)
[04:43] <ajmitch> it'll probably be easier to get it into ubuntu
[04:43] <dle> Why's that?
[04:43] <ajmitch> but standards are high in both cases :)
[04:43] <schweeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
[04:43] <ajmitch> because for debian it can take a little more hunting to find a sponsor
[04:43] <schweeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseNewPackages
[04:44] <schweeb> ajmitch: or a lot more hunting
[04:44] <ajmitch> schweeb: depends on how useful the software is, and how good the packaging is
[04:44] <schweeb> true
[04:45] <schweeb> hrm
[04:46] <schweeb> heh, looks like it hasn't been upped since march
[04:46] <schweeb> whoops
[04:46] <ajmitch> ah, good to see ginac built on 3/4 archs
[04:46] <schweeb> ;)
[04:47] <ajmitch> broken b-d on ia64
[04:50] <schweeb> is mono usable on ia64 yet?
[04:50] <ajmitch> I don't have an ia64 to test it out, sadly
[04:51] <schweeb> heh
[04:51] <ajmitch> although that's probably a good thing for the power bill
[04:51] <schweeb> I'm just wondering if when I fix gsf-sharp, I should do stuff to get it working on ia64 as well
[04:51] <schweeb> if there's no mono, that'd answer that question pretty quickly :p
[04:52] <ajmitch> depends if the 2 ia64 users want gsf-sharp ;)
[04:53] <schweeb> eh, let's be realistic... 3 i64 users
[04:53] <schweeb> *ia64
[05:28] <|QuaD-> i asked a while ago, never got an answer, anyone using hoary's hula package?
[09:42] <\sh> morning
[10:02] <\sh> DanielN_atw: ping
[10:12] <torkel> is anyone working on/responsible for security bugs in universe?
[10:13] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUSecurity
[10:13] <torkel> \sh: thanks
[10:15] <Amaranth> err, was mplayer removed from breezy?
[10:18] <Amaranth> nm
[10:18] <Amaranth> forgot to turn on multiverse
[12:28] <shawarma> Is the MOTU team subscribed to the MOTUToReview page in the new wiki?
[12:30] <shawarma> IOW, can they be expected to notice changes there and do something about them?
[12:31] <shawarma> Wow. This channel i sloooow today. :-)
[01:13] <ajmitch> shawarma: yes, I'm also subscribed to the whole wiki at the moment :)
[01:13] <shawarma> ajmitch: Wow!
[01:13] <shawarma> ajmitch: How?
[01:13] <shawarma> ajmitch: And doesn't that produce a sh*tload of e-mail?
[01:15] <\sh> shawarma: 27th of june, review day, then we will scare the devil out of the packagers ;-)
[01:16] <shawarma> \sh: Right. Too bad I won't be available for the entire next week.:-(
[01:33] <danieln> morning :)
[01:33] <DanielN> s
[01:38] <DanielN> lol
[01:38] <DanielN> never seen before that \sh isn't around :)
[01:40] <DanielN> hi ogra
[01:40] <ogra> hey
[01:51] <\sh> DanielN: it's called dircproxy and i gives you the opinion, that i'm always here and awake ;)
[01:52] <Nafallo> \sh: the proxy pokes you if you try to sleep? :-)
[01:56] <\sh> no...my laptop is switched off during night normally
[01:56] <\sh> but my rootserver is on 24h/30 or 31 days a month*12 months
[01:57] <Nafallo> *s*
[01:58] <Nafallo> seems like a similiar setup to what I have :-)
[01:59] <HiddenWolf> \sh, you should take it down for kernel upgrades. :P
[01:59] <Nafallo> HiddenWolf: not take it down. reboot if the updates really, really, _really_ requires it ;-)
[02:13] <\sh> HiddenWolf: for kernel upgrades I will go to DC and upgrade 15 machines at once :)
[02:14] <HiddenWolf> :P
[02:14] <HiddenWolf> I've got enough with my one pc.
[02:18] <DanielN> \sh: is it in ubuntu?
[02:42] <\sh> DanielN_atw: dircproxy? yes :)
[03:07] <Nafallo> and so is muh ;-)
[03:25] <bddebian> Good morning
[03:25] <ajmitch> hi
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:25] <tseng> ajmitch: morning?
[03:26] <bddebian> ajmitch: Thanks for nothing, now no laptop for you.. ;-P
[03:27] <ajmitch> right...
[03:28] <ajmitch> tseng: yeah, about bed time, just had to get this package fixed
[03:28] <tseng> ah, morning tommorow
[03:28] <bddebian> You're hardcore man
[03:29] <ajmitch> so why have you changed your mind again on that laptop, bddebian ?
[03:29] <tseng> he wants to give it to me
[03:29] <ajmitch> makes sense
[03:29] <tseng> he heard i was e-lite
[03:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: I'm kidding, I have just been too busy/lazy to send it.  I got Hoary on the StinkPad last night though finally so now I can send it.. :-)
[03:29] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:30] <bddebian> l33t?
[03:30] <tseng> no
[03:30] <bddebian> :-)
[03:30] <ajmitch> tseng: nah, you're beyond classification
[03:30] <bddebian> Of course now I have to upgrade to Breezy
[03:30] <tseng> hah.
[03:30] <ajmitch> bddebian: only if you're brave
[03:30] <bddebian> Totally
[03:31] <ajmitch> and/or stupid
[03:31] <ajmitch> or you just want to fix things
[03:31] <tseng> im both.
[03:31] <bddebian> That's a fine line.. And you beat me too it
[03:31] <bddebian> :-)
[03:31] <Nafallo> nothing wrong with breezy atm :-)
[03:31] <tseng> Nafallo: dude daniels is back
[03:31] <bddebian> ajmitch: I got the second StinkPad just to work on Ubuntu packages
[03:31] <ajmitch> no, breezy has been good enough for daily work on all my machines for awhile
[03:31] <Nafallo> tseng: bwahahaha! :-)
[03:31] <ajmitch> bddebian: great
[03:32] <tseng> bwar holy shit
[03:32] <tseng> f-spot exploded (cvs)
[03:32] <Nafallo> ehh
[03:32] <Nafallo> f-spot exploded inside cvs? are there backups taken? :-)
[03:33] <ogra> yay... libsigcx !!
[03:33] <ajmitch> ogra: I just have to supress the urge to kill the debian/upstream ;)
[03:33] <ogra> heh
[03:33] <ogra> +i fully understand you....
[03:33] <bddebian> ajmitch: Though you know me, I'm probably too st00pid to help. :-)
[03:34] <ajmitch> ogra: everything is m4, preprocesses
[03:34] <Nafallo> ajmitch: you might need one of those: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80765&item=4557754396&rd=1 ;-)
[03:34] <ajmitch> debian/ dir has control generated from Makefile
[03:34] <ajmitch> Nafallo: tempting :)\
[03:35] <Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe
[03:35] <ajmitch> ogra: now I just have a few others to clean up
[03:36] <ajmitch> tomorrow.. :)
[03:42] <ajmitch> night all
[03:42] <Nafallo> night ajmitch
[03:42] <mgalvin> hi all
[03:42] <mgalvin> night ajmitch
[06:04] <DanielN> re
[06:04] <pef> hello
[06:05] <pef> I've added klibido to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages for review, can someone check it ? thank you :)
[06:06] <ivoks> lol, microsoft :)) lol
[06:06] <ogra> ivoks, ??
[06:06] <ivoks> i can't belive it! :)
[06:06] <ivoks> ogra: they decided to implement SenderID on hotmail
[06:07] <ogra> hehe
[06:07] <ivoks> ogra: if your mail server doesn't have SenderID, you mail will be SPAM :)
[06:07] <ivoks> omg
[06:07] <ogra> yep
[06:07] <bddebian> wb DanielN, hello pef
[06:07] <ivoks> that's like... 99.9999% of mails :)
[06:07] <pef> bddebian: hello
[06:08] <JanC> simple to fix: deny all mails from/to hotmail  :-P
[06:08] <bddebian> heh
[06:08] <ivoks> JanC: that would be revenge :)
[06:08] <Lathiat> senderid etc dont work in the real world
[06:08] <DanielN> ajmitch, libsigcx ping :)
[06:09] <ivoks> of course it doesn't
[06:09] <Lathiat> its fine if your hotmail
[06:09] <Lathiat> your system is centralized
[06:09] <Lathiat> you only send from a set place
[06:09] <Lathiat> for just about everything else, there is no central MX to send from
[06:09] <Lathiat> and getting everyone to switchover to that is a) not going to happen, b) not always possible (firewalls, etc)
[06:09] <Lathiat> so any system like it just wont work
[06:09] <JanC> my ISP blocks port 25 outgoing...
[06:09] <Lathiat> (for everyone)
[06:09] <Lathiat> JanC: right
[06:09] <Lathiat> exactly
[06:10] <JanC> so I have to use their relay
[06:10] <JanC> (or my own server on another port :) )
[06:10] <ivoks> i allways use ISPs relay
[06:10] <ivoks> except on university
[06:10] <Lathiat> right
[06:10] <Lathiat> but whatif you own your own domain
[06:11] <Lathiat> but you switch between 5 different ISPs relays
[06:11] <Lathiat> and then you goto a conference
[06:11] <JanC> many ISPs block port 25 ougoing to stop zombie relays...
[06:11] <Lathiat> and that conference blocks port 25 but has a local relay
[06:11] <ivoks> i have domain; grad.hr
[06:11] <DanielN> har har.. had last schoolday today... just the examines are left :/
[06:11] <JanC> and other spam-worms
[06:11] <Lathiat> DanielN: har har i finished my exams today ;p
[06:12] <DanielN> Lathiat, nice.. good luck, if you don't know the result yet
[06:12] <DanielN> :)
[06:12] <mehrfachstecker> DanielN: Hi
[06:13] <DanielN> hi mehrfachstecker :)
[06:26] <DanielN> \sh, which irc proxy are you running on you're rootie?
[06:26] <DanielN> (you said, that you're connected all the time)
[06:30] <DanielN> ah
[06:31] <DanielN> dircproxy
[06:31] <DanielN> it's like an bouncer :)
[06:31] <\sh> but better...but right now I'm taking a nap
[06:32] <DanielN> a nap?
[06:32] <bddebian> How are you typing if you are taking a nap? :-)
[06:33] <\sh> http://dict.leo.org/?search=nap
[06:33] <\sh> 4th meaning
[06:33] <\sh> bddebian: the wonders of a laptop;)
[06:33] <bddebian> heh
[06:36] <DanielN> \sh, would be nice, if you can provide your dircproxy config file to me.. i'm too faul to type one myself :)
[07:14] <pef> bye!
[07:46] <\sh> Riddell: ping
[07:46] <\sh> access("/home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kdevelop/pics/kdevdesigner-splash.png", R
[07:46] <\sh> _OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[07:47] <\sh> access("/usr/share/apps/kdevelop/pics/kdevdesigner-splash.png", R_OK) = -1 ENOEN
[07:47] <\sh> T (No such file or directory)
[07:47] <\sh> write(2, "QPainter::begin: Cannot paint nu"..., 42QPainter::begin: Cannot paint
[07:47] <\sh> null pixmap
[07:47] <\sh> ) = 42
[07:48] <\sh> looks like it tries to search in the wrong path
[07:50] <Riddell> ah, the evil renaming
[07:50] <\sh> Riddell: just checked it out...mv kdevelop3 kdevelop -> running
[07:51] <\sh> nasty
[07:52] <\sh> -> #kubuntu-devel ;)
[07:53] <bddebian> I have been meaning to try kdevelop.  Is it any good?
[07:53] <\sh> bddebian: jepp..but let us fix this nasty thing first,) without the designer you're helpless
[07:54] <bddebian> Fair enough :-)
[08:10] <ivoks> i hate jebber :)
[08:10] <ivoks> jabber
[08:42] <\sh> why?
[08:43] <\sh> ivoks: check the planet
[08:47] <herve> hello!
[08:49] <bddebian> Heya herve
[08:53] <\sh> Ok, presenting a new motu team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUIM
[08:54] <Nafallo> \sh: *s*
[08:54] <\sh> feel free to join ;)
[08:55] <Nafallo> first things first :-)
[08:56] <bddebian> IM?? pfft
[08:56] <bddebian> ;-)
[09:07] <\sh> *g*
[09:09] <ogra> \sh, so your aim is to make gaim finally behave sane on the desktop ?
[09:10] <herve> yeah, it's called gossip ;-)
[09:10] <Nafallo> ogra: he probably will want to rip everything except jabber out of gaim ;-)
[09:10] <ogra> Nafallo, _thats_ called gossip
[09:10] <\sh> Nafallo: is right ;)
[09:10] <\sh> all b*llsh*t i will port jbother to gnome ;)
[09:11] <ogra> herve, and what do i do with my AIM and ICQ frinds ?
[09:11] <Nafallo> ogra: gossip have evo-love now? :-)
[09:11] <ogra> Nafallo, no idea...
[09:11] <tseng> gossip is the opposite of gaim
[09:11] <herve> ogra, I just considered the UI and usability
[09:11] <tseng> and they are both way far out from the goodness in the center
[09:11] <\sh> ogra: put them in your jabber client and use transports ;)
[09:12] <\sh> ogra: can u make service discovery with gaim?
[09:13] <Amaranth> is there any reason we don't have gstreamer-faad?
[09:13] <Amaranth> i mean, we have mplayer and ffmpeg and such, it doesn't seem any worse
[09:13] <ogra> Amaranth, DONT MENTION FFMPEG !!!
[09:14] <Amaranth> ok then
[09:14] <Amaranth> we have gstreamer-mad
[09:14] <Amaranth> gstreamer-faad isn't any worse
[09:14] <ogra> (sorry if trying to fix this f*cking package since 3 days now)
[09:14] <JanC> gossip can't even handle 2 jabber accounts AFAIK
[09:14] <Amaranth> or is it just a matter or someone packaging it?
[09:14] <\sh> gossib is crap
[09:15] <\sh> last time i tried it it couldn't even handle gpg or ssl
[09:15] <herve> well, sorry
[09:15] <herve> I connect through SSL everyday
[09:15] <Amaranth> damnit
[09:15] <\sh> ok...what about tls?
[09:15] <Amaranth> blobwars just bugged out on me :/
[09:16] <herve> \sh, just works, don't care how :-)
[09:17] <Amaranth> brb
[09:23] <DanielN> herve, ping
[09:24] <herve> hi DanielN
[09:24] <herve> congrats for when!
[09:26] <\sh> oh yes...i forgot congrats
[09:28] <bddebian> For when?
[09:30] <DanielN> \sh, thanks.. you helped alot :)
[09:30] <DanielN> herve, is it up already? i haven't seen it yet tomorrow
[09:30] <herve> I had it in my new packages filter two hours ago
[09:30] <herve> bddebian, yes
[09:31] <DanielN> herve, ahh ;>
[09:31] <DanielN> mhm.. i love my iPod
[09:31] <DanielN> :)
[09:33] <bddebian> What is when?
[09:33] <DanielN> a calendar script.. written in perl
[09:33] <herve> "minimalistic personal calendar"
[09:34] <DanielN> very geek-friendly ;)
[09:34] <herve> it's like I know this package by heart now!
[09:34] <DanielN> :P
[09:34] <DanielN> herve, did you tested it one time?
[09:35] <herve> no
[09:35] <DanielN> it's cool
[09:35] <herve> sounds strange, doesn't it?
[09:35] <herve> I'm not that geek!
[09:35] <DanielN> i've installed it on my rootie.. so i have contact to my calender from every where with ssh
[09:36] <DanielN> for me it's absolut great
[09:36] <DanielN> but everyone as he likes :)
[09:36] <herve> I have a Palm!
[09:36] <DanielN> herve, ok.. topped
[09:36] <DanielN> ;)
[09:36] <herve> with wifi!
[09:36] <DanielN> arr.. stop
[09:36] <DanielN> ;>
[09:44] <Nafallo> have anyone got ccache-love inside their pbuilders? :-)
[10:06] <herve> night all
[10:14] <sebest> hello, i have a question about the motu wiki
[10:15] <sebest> i've writtend the package for nautilus-share, and i read the comment, should i modify the package according to them?
[10:22] <ogra> sebest, if the comment is from a MOTU, yes
[10:23] <tseng> ogra: revu should have a special status for MOTUs
[10:23] <tseng> ogra: mark us with a little star or something
[10:23] <ogra> yep
[10:23] <tseng> and note packages that have 3 starred reviews
[10:23] <tseng> actually we need more than jsut comments
[10:23] <tseng> we need to give it a + or a 0
[10:23] <tseng> we need to give it a + or a -
[10:24] <ogra> tseng, siretart's tool will solve it
[10:24] <tseng> ok
[10:24] <tseng> i dont think it does now
[10:24] <tseng> but i will trust him to rock
[10:25] <ogra> yep
[10:25] <tseng> just as long as he understands the process, he is pretty new
[10:26] <ajmitch> morning
[10:26] <Firetech> evening.
[10:28] <bddebian> afternoon
[10:31] <ogra> noon ?
[10:31] <ogra> (just to compete it)
[10:31] <ogra> complete even
[10:31] <jamessan|work> shouldn't that be noon-thirty?
[10:31] <ogra> heh
[10:32] <ogra> isnt that afternoon already.... technically....
[10:32] <ogra> but night is missing too :)
[10:39] <ajmitch> why is DanielN still pinging me about libsigcx? ;)
[10:42] <ajmitch>  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11456
[10:42] <ajmitch> ugh
[10:42] <ajmitch> I meant to paste http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/sponsorship_checklist.html
[10:42] <ajmitch> care if I add that to reviewing tips?
[10:43] <tseng> oh deinfatly
[10:46] <ajmitch> time to run to work, bbiab
[10:47] <ogra> hmm, wouldnt a "make sure your packages are lintian clean" be enough ?
[10:50] <bddebian> Should be
[10:50] <bddebian> Provided people know what Lintian is. :-)
[10:52] <ogra> they should, if they package or want to be MOTUs
[10:53] <bddebian> Well that is one of the few things I DO know. :-)
[10:54] <sebest> i'd like to have an advice about making package, how to make a package that can work on both hoary and breezy when the name of a dependency changed?
[10:55] <plugwash> sebest did just the name of the package change?
[10:55] <plugwash> or did something else important change too?
[10:56] <sebest> just the name
[10:56] <bddebian> afaik you'd have to build both?
[10:57] <plugwash> i think debs allow for alternative dependencies but it still seems very odd for a package name to change without a good reason
[10:58] <ogra> sebest, which dependency ?
[11:00] <sebest> ogra i think i can fix it using shlibs:Depends
[11:01] <sebest> can i put ${shlibs:Depends} in control file?
[11:01] <ogra> sebest, you should always use shlibs:Depends, using fixed dependencys is evil...
[11:01] <ogra> yep
[11:02] <sebest> and about build depends ?
[11:02] <\sh> strike
[11:03] <\sh> how easy it is to code kde in python
[11:03] <bddebian> eeks
[11:03] <ogra> nope shlibs:Depends is derived from the build depends
[11:04] <ogra> sebest, so you should have the right -dev libs in your build-depends
[11:04] <plugwash> lamont any news on bootstrapping freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)
[11:05] <sebest> ogra what should i put in my control file after Build-Depends ?
[11:05] <lamont__> plugwash: ISTR you were going to send me email or file a bug in the bts assigned to me that pointed out which packages to build with binaries from where....
[11:05] <ogra> sebest, all the -dev versions of the libs that your package needs
[11:05] <plugwash> lamont__ you said youd bootstap it but i don't remember you asking me to send you any more info or telling me where to send it
[11:06] <lamont__> ah, ok.
[11:06] <lamont__> which package are we talking about?
[11:06] <lamont__> and I assume it's in debian?
[11:07] <plugwash> source package fpc binary packages fp-*
[11:07] <plugwash> debian has source and binaries you have source but no binaries
[11:07] <sebest> ogra, there is no equivalent of shlibs:Depends for build dep?
[11:07] <ogra> sebest, heh, no
[11:07] <sebest> or am i missing something?
[11:08] <ogra> sebest, shlibs:Depends is derived from the list in your build-depends line
[11:08] <lamont__> plugwash: right.
[11:08] <lamont__> debian has i386, ppc and sparc
[11:08] <ogra> sebest, so you ned to popluate that manally
[11:08] <lamont__> I can bootstrap i386 and ppc, fabbione will have to do spar
[11:08] <lamont__> c
[11:08] <sebest> ogra, oh i thought it was compute from configure.in or something
[11:09] <ogra> sebest, nope... the packaging stuff is always independent from the source
[11:09] <lamont__> plugwash: it'd be nice if someone were to bootstrap fpc on hppa,ia64,amd64, to round out the ubuntu family.
[11:09] <ogra> sebest, and its bad habit to mix them
[11:09] <lamont__> plugwash: or at least amd64
[11:09] <sebest> would be great if something like this was possible because with autotools i already defined the dependencies
[11:09] <plugwash> lamont hppa and ia64 aren't supported by freepascal at all
[11:10] <lamont__> :-(
[11:10] <ogra> sebest, yes, and your job in packaginfg is to put the right pieces in the build-depends
[11:10] <plugwash> amd64 should be possible with a patch to the debian specs and a non-debian starting compiler
[11:10] <lamont__> plugwash: is it's output elf, or is it C code?
[11:10] <sebest> ogra, oki i got it :)
[11:11] <lamont__> plugwash: if you can point me at an amd64 fp-compiler and fp-utils, I think I can probably bootstrap amd64 as well.
[11:11] <lamont__> plugwash: or a set of steps to do it would work too.
[11:11] <sebest> ogra is there a dep that give the whoole autotools toolchain (automake autoconf intltool, etc ) or should i put them one by one ?
[11:12] <ogra> sebest, you dont run automake at build time... do this before
[11:12] <plugwash> lamont__ i can't say i've ever tried to build the debs myself but my guess is you would have to install freepascal from the binary tarball then override the build deps to build a deb without an existing deb
[11:12] <ogra> sebest, i mean before you start to even package it
[11:12] <sebest> ogra, oki
[11:12] <lamont__> plugwash: of course, the ideal solution would be a bootstrappable fpc that didn't use fpc-specific code constructs, but built enough of an fp-compiler to then build the whole thing
[11:12] <plugwash> i don't have access to an amd64 system though so i can't try and bootstrap an amd64 deb myself
[11:13] <lamont__> there is a binary tarball for amd64 though?
[11:13] <plugwash> lemme check
[11:13] <ogra> sebest, if you need any stuff of autotools (like copying over config.{sub,guess} you build-depend on autotools-dev.... but only then
[11:14] <lamont__> plugwash: to the extent possible, I prefer to bootstrap all 3 (or 5) architectures at once... less pain for my brain that way
[11:14] <plugwash> also iirc a patch is needed to the debian specs to let it build on amd64
[11:15] <plugwash> ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/dist/x86_64-linux-2.0.0/fpc-2.0.0.x86_64-linux.tar <--binary tarball of freepascal for amd64
[11:15] <plugwash> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=315220 <-- info on patch needed to debian specs to allow building on amd64
[11:17] <sebest> ogra, what does this mean :"please move upstream tarball to <name>_<version>.orig.tar.gz before doing debuild -S (-sa)"
[11:18] <sebest> does it mean that i should change the name of my release using a "_" between name and version?
[11:18] <ogra> yep
[11:18] <ogra> for the orig.tar.gz
[11:20] <sebest> what is the difference between this .orig.tar.gz and the .tar.gz generated by dpkg-buildpkg ?
[11:20] <sebest> (sorry for all these questions :s=
[11:22] <ogra> the orig.tar.gz is the original source....
[11:22] <ogra> (dont worry about questions, thats what we are here for ;) )
[11:23] <sebest> but in my case they are the same...
[11:24] <ogra> the orig.tar.gz should be the source without debian dir
[11:25] <ogra> and to package it you eithe have to tar the source dir (without debian dir) or rename the source tarball (if it didnt change)
[11:29] <sebest> but i'm the author of the .tar.gz and i prefer to have the debian folder inside my sources (because i maintain it in subversion), i shouldn't do this?
[11:31] <jamessan> sebest: you should maintain debian/ outside of your sources directory.  nothing wrong with keeping it under version control, but it should be separate from the upstream tarball
[11:35] <sebest> and about the naming in the changelog: what are number X and Y in 0.6.4-XubuntuY ?
[11:36] <ogra> ubuntu naming is only done if you do ubuntu specific changes, else stay with the debian scheme
[11:37] <plugwash> sebest X is the revision of the package (ie if you have to fix stuff after the first time you package an upstream version you increase that number)
[11:37] <sebest> ogra what is the debian scheme?
[11:38] <ogra> sebest, see plugwash
[11:38] <plugwash> ubuntuY is added if ubuntu make changes to a package from debian
[11:38] <sebest> so 0.6.4-1 is enought ?
[11:38] <ogra> yep
[11:38] <sebest> oki
[11:38] <plugwash> if its a new package/new upstream version then yes
[11:38] <ogra> so if your package ever enters debian, we can autosyc itz
[11:39] <ogra> which doesnt work with ubuntuX versions
[11:39] <sebest> ogra, i have some problem to make the package work in debian and ubuntu at the same time
[11:40] <sebest> because dependencies name where different last time i tryed
[11:40] <jamessan> probably just needs to be recompiled under an ubuntu pbuilder/chroot
[11:41] <sebest> afaik libnautilus-extension-dev changed between gnome 2.8 and 2.10 or something like this
[11:41] <plugwash> sebest if you can make your build-deps so they work on both then just use ${shlibs:Depends} for your normal dependencies
[11:41] <sebest> plugwash that was the problem, the builddep was different
[11:42] <ogra> sebest, so, to come back to my initial question, which build dependency was that ?
[11:43] <sebest> ogra, wait i must boot another computer to find this
[11:47] <ogra> sebest, you can use packages.debian.org and packages.ubuntu.com
[11:51] <sebest> ogra i think it's dbus that was rename libdbus
[11:52] <sebest> dbus-glib-1-dev no?
[11:53] <sebest> i think it now libdbus-glib-1-dev in breezy
[11:53] <ogra> sebest, that will change in debian as well... very soon
[11:54] <sebest> ogra, yes but i can't use the same "debian" folder for both hoary and breezy right?
[11:54] <ogra> sebest, you have to
[11:54] <sebest> but how?
[11:55] <sebest> what should i put in my build deps?
[11:55] <ogra> sebest, but you will need to make the ubuntuX change for te ubuntu package (or just wait two or four weeks until debian changed it too)
[11:56] <tseng> hi ogra
[11:56] <plugwash> can you do a build dependecy with options?
[11:56] <ogra> hey tseng :)
[11:56] <plugwash> i know you can for normal dependencies
[11:56] <tseng> "with options"?
[11:56] <ogra> you mean a logical "or" ?
[11:56] <sebest> ogra ok i understand the logic but it starts to look a bit like the problem there were with rpms...
[11:56] <plugwash> ogra yes
[11:56] <tseng> then yes
[11:56] <plugwash> i know i've seen it for normal dependencies
[11:57] <ogra> plugwash, you can
[11:57] <tseng> you can use an |
[11:57] <plugwash> why can't you use that for the build dep in this case?
[11:57] <ogra> plugwash, but in that case it wouldnt work nice
[11:57] <tseng> you can...
[11:57] <sebest> ogra the problem i mention is not between debian and ubuntu, but between hoary and breezy
[11:57] <ogra> since tseng is ahead of debian with mono packaging and they will follow
[11:58] <tseng> ogra: thats not true, they are ahead of me now :)
[11:58] <sebest> i've have the same kind of problem between debian and hoary for different dependencies though
[11:58] <ogra> tseng, even with dbus ?
[11:58] <tseng> ogra: they are merging our package for dbus
[11:58] <ogra> yay
[11:58] <tseng> in experiemental
[12:00] <ogra> sebest, yes, thats caused through scheduling inconsistencys between the release schedules, you cant avoid that, its one cause for the ubuntuX versions
[12:01] <sebest> yeah i guess the fact they are using gnome 2.8 while ubuntu 2.10