[12:01] <ajmitch> pitti: which ones do you want updates on? patches are now in ssh, dpkg, manoj is updating pam to 0.79, reviewing the 50 debian patches that 0.76 carries :)
[12:01] <pitti> ajmitch: hey, that sounds pretty good
[12:01] <pitti> ajmitch: however, IIRC there were more (logcheck and so on)
[12:01] <ajmitch> so we'll probably use 0.79 synced from debian, since manoj will get it in there
[12:02] <ajmitch> logrotate?
[12:02] <cartel_> sorry all, i dont mean to be angry, it is early in the morning and ive been fighting with this all night
[12:02] <cartel_> and i dont understand why what works on debian doesnt work on ubuntu
[12:02] <cartel_> heh
[12:03] <ogra> cartel_, because sarge released after hoary...
[12:03] <ogra> cartel_, so the fix is in there, but not in hoary ....
[12:03] <cartel_> hoary is checkpointed against sid not sarge isnt it
[12:03] <ajmitch> pitti: sorry, logrotate should be built, just needs 1 change to the rules file to turn on the selinux support 
[12:04] <cartel_> or do you take sarge and try and merge in lots of stuff from sid (suicide)
[12:04] <ogra> cartel_, nope
[12:05] <ogra> cartel_, but sarge recieved bugfixes after hoary was released
[12:05] <ajmitch> cartel_: the split package was in experimental until 6th June, but had been in hoary. the bug was fixed on the 17th
[12:05] <cartel_> too much double handling if you ask me
[12:06] <ogra> ??
[12:07] <ogra> cartel_, the fix was discovered after hoary was released and already is in breezy, where is the double handling... 
[12:08] <cartel_> the double handling is in divergent branches
[12:08] <cartel_> since ubuntu is effectively a branch of sarge as you say
[12:09] <cartel_> much work wasted on people merging others patches
[12:09] <ajmitch> cartel_: the debian & ubuntu maintainer is the same person
[12:09] <cartel_> ian was right you make life difficult for yourselves
[12:09] <ogra> cartel_, when did i say _that_ ?
[12:09] <ogra> cartel_, you said that
[12:09] <pitti> night everybody
[12:10] <mdz> pitti: night
[12:10] <seb128> 'night pitti 
[12:10] <ajmitch> night pitti 
[12:10] <ogra> cartel_, ubuntu is a snapshot of sid, gets constantly updated until we freeze to stabilize
[12:10] <cartel_> you're trying to take sid and stabilise it, not even 1000 dds can do that so how can ~50 ubuntu people do it
[12:10] <tseng> cartel_: can you please take it down a notch
[12:11] <tseng> cartel_: we aim to stabilize a very small portion of sid
[12:11] <cartel_> tseng: huh?
[12:11] <tseng> cartel_: "universe" is best effort
[12:11] <ajmitch> because ubuntu freezes, sid doesn't
[12:11] <tseng> huh? we spend our lives on this stuff and you are coming of as very critical without much understanding
[12:12] <tseng> id just prefer you ask w/o the tone that you know we are doomed
[12:12] <cartel_> tseng: im saying you are making life difficult for yourselves
[12:12] <tseng> you know
[12:12] <cartel_> ok
[12:12] <tseng> its largely automatic, actually
[12:12] <cartel_> until there is a bug
[12:13] <tseng> yes, non-critical bugs in released products dont get fixed
[12:13] <tseng> you are right
[12:13] <cartel_> then you have to wait 6 months for it to get fixed in $(debian_version)+1
[12:13] <ogra> cartel_, we can do it with (actually less then 30 ppl) because we have a sensible software selection for main
[12:13] <cartel_> debatable
[12:13] <tseng> cartel_: universe is unsupported
[12:14] <ogra> cartel_, MOTU who cares for universe just starts to exist
[12:14] <cartel_> and everything outside of a tiny enduser focus is ignored
[12:14] <ogra> cartel_, in hoary 10 ppl cared for 15000 universe packages...
[12:14] <tseng> $ apt-cache show ssh-krb5 | grep Section 
[12:14] <tseng> Section: universe/net
[12:14] <ogra> cartel_, so there i admit that we might have lots of bugs left
[12:14] <tseng> this is a community maintained package
[12:15] <tseng> if no one in debian or ubuntu fixes the bug within the 6 month cycle
[12:15] <cartel_> tseng we have gone far past ssh-krb5
[12:15] <tseng> you are quite right, it has to wait
[12:15] <tseng> im making it into an example
[12:15] <ogra> cartel_, which should change with every additional MOTU
[12:15] <tseng> you are free to care for that package
[12:15] <cartel_> i thought about becoming a motu
[12:15] <tseng> and?
[12:15] <ogra> cartel_, go ahead... 
[12:15] <cartel_> but then i realised its better for me to put my work into debian
[12:15] <tseng> we are very nice when you dont put us on defense :)
[12:15] <cartel_> and have a trickle down
[12:16] <cartel_> im sorry guys
[12:16] <ogra> cartel_, who says your work doesnt go into debian
[12:16] <cartel_> ive just been fighting this prob all night
[12:16] <seb128> cartel_: fixes go both ways all the time
[12:16] <tseng> well, you didnt find it while we were working on hoary for 6 months
[12:16] <cartel_> trying to show my clients how good ubuntu is for a desktop
[12:16] <tseng> so we didnt have a chance to fix it
[12:17] <cartel_> it just wont talk to their ads realm properly
[12:17] <cartel_> when their 6 woody/sarge boxes dont have issue
[12:17] <seb128> cartel_: send a bug if you want an issue fixed, that works like that for every distro
[12:17] <cartel_> perhaps you can understand this small frustration
[12:18] <cartel_> i dont mean to take it out on you all
[12:18] <seb128> bugs happens? right
[12:18] <cartel_> i genuinely love (k)ubuntu
[12:18] <seb128> point them so they can be fixed
[12:18] <cartel_> but when stuff doesnt work that is trivial in debian i get upset
[12:18] <ajmitch> 10am now, and been up all night?
[12:18] <seb128> cartel_: Debian has bugs too ...
[12:18] <cartel_> ajmitch: i gave up at 11pm and im back at it at 8:30
[12:19] <seb128> cartel_: and if Debian fixes an issue it gets fixed for Ubuntu too
[12:19] <cartel_> ajmitch: thought a sleep on it would help
[12:19] <ogra> seb128, that bug was fixed some weeks ago
[12:19] <ogra> seb128, its just not fixed in hoary unoverse
[12:20] <cartel_> but that ssh-krb5 was just the straw on the camels back
[12:20] <ogra> universe
[12:20] <ajmitch> cartel_: sleep usually does help
[12:20] <cartel_> i apologise for putting you all on defense
[12:20] <cartel_> you are all doing a great job
[12:20] <cartel_> commendable effort
[12:21] <cartel_> i hope improvements to desktop experience gained through ubuntus work flow back to debian too
[12:23] <Riddell> lifeless: do you know why kexi is dep-wait on mysql-dev when it's build-dep is mysql12-dev?
[12:23] <ogra> cartel_, sure... seb128 maintains them in both worlds....the only prob are the different release schedules and debians longer stabilizing time here.... so its likely to be outdated, since they support 11 arches and we only 3 and they have a way bigger main component
[12:23] <lifeless> Riddell: nope. You do know that I am not in the distro team ?
[12:24] <tseng> lifeless: i think he confused you with infinity :)
[12:24] <lifeless> tseng: could be ;)
[12:24] <ogra> heh... hard to confuse these two
[12:24] <lifeless> Riddell: but ask me about version control foo ;0
[12:24] <cartel_> now i am going to go and make a green tea to calm my nerve :)
[12:24] <ogra> :)
[12:25] <Riddell> man, all these abstract IRC nicks
[12:25] <Riddell> infinity: do you know why kexi is dep-wait on mysql-dev when it's build-dep is mysql12-dev?
[12:25] <ogra> *g*
[12:26] <cartel_> abstact?
[12:26] <cartel_> +r
[12:27] <cartel_> question
[12:27] <cartel_> why did ubuntu opt for bugzilla over debian bts?
[12:27] <cartel_> when reportbug is so convenient?
[12:27] <cartel_> i know you are transitioning to malone
[12:27] <cartel_> once it reaches OnePointZero
[12:28] <seb128> cartel_: bugzilla is much better than the BTS imho
[12:28] <cartel_> but in the interim?
[12:28] <ogra> seb128++
[12:28] <cartel_> you think?
[12:28] <cartel_> from maintainer perspective or user perspective?
[12:28] <seb128> cartel_: I use both a lot
[12:28] <seb128> both
[12:28] <cartel_> really?
[12:29] <seb128> you have not Cc: on a bug with the BTS
[12:29] <cartel_> that is trivial to implement
[12:29] <seb128> ou have no search, which makes search for a duplicate ... hum ... long
[12:29] <cartel_> but bts shows you bugs when you do a reportbug
[12:29] <seb128> a lot of users like to use a webform than the BTS has not
[12:29] <cartel_> you can see if there is a dupe before you file
[12:29] <cartel_> really?
[12:29] <seb128> sure
[12:29] <cartel_> i hates the webform
[12:30] <seb128> people are not happy to use the command line ...
[12:30] <cartel_> who is this people?
[12:30] <seb128> and sending a bug to submit@b.d.o is not trivial
[12:30] <cartel_> lusers?
[12:30] <seb128> users
[12:30] <ogra> cartel_, my mother
[12:30] <cartel_> ic...
[12:30] <seb128> cartel_: anybody than you can put on front of a desktop and which is not a computer guy
[12:30] <\sh> ogra: greetings to your mother :)
[12:30] <cartel_> well bugzilla does not collect the information bts does like installed dependency versions
[12:31] <cartel_> s/bts/reportbug
[12:31] <cartel_> at least not automatically
[12:31] <cartel_> which makes life as a maintainer more difficult
[12:31] <seb128> cartel_: not, but have a some bug-buddy hack for this
[12:31] <seb128> s/a//
[12:31] <cartel_> ok
[12:31] <mdz> elmo: is us.archive permanently gone?
[12:32] <hub> whate does a "c2" means in the package name ?
[12:32] <hub> gcc4?
[12:32] <seb128> correct
[12:32] <hub> crap
[12:32] <ogra> nope g++4
[12:32] <hub> because gcc4 reject what i'm building
[12:32] <cartel_> from the sounds of it i must be one of fthe few who prefer bts to bugzilla
[12:32] <ogra> ;)
[12:32] <ajmitch> change in c++ ABI for g++ 3.4/4.0
[12:32] <cartel_> -f
[12:32] <hub> yesh g++4
[12:32] <hub> it is wxWin :-/
[12:32] <seb128> cartel_: just because of the mail command?
[12:33] <ajmitch> hub: is there a problem?
[12:33] <ogra> hub we get 2.6 soon
[12:33] <cartel_> seb128: i expect reportbug to connect to bugzilla but it doesnt
[12:33] <cartel_> seb128: i am debian since hamm :)
[12:33] <hub> ajmitch: building the program I'm trying to package, yes
[12:34] <seb128> cartel_: you are not forced to like the BTS if you use Debian you know .. 
[12:34] <ajmitch> hub: aha :)
[12:34] <cartel_> seb128: but i am used to it
[12:34] <hub> ajmitch: and I build in Breezy :-/
[12:34] <ajmitch> hub: broken/non-compliant source then?
[12:34] <hub> ajmitch: as far as I know, it is not an error
[12:34] <hub> ajmitch: but who knows
[12:35] <\sh> hub: something was with wxwin
[12:36] <hub> was ?
[12:36] <hub> so I should wait for wxWin2.6 ?
[12:37] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com//CxxLibraryList
[12:37] <\sh> and search for wxwindows2.4
[12:37] <\sh> it's already build for g++4
[12:38] <\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10826
[12:38] <\sh> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wxwindows2.4/ i think
[12:38] <\sh> if this is it what you want
[12:39] <hub> sh: I have it
[12:39] <hub> ii  libwxgtk2.4c2                     2.4.3.1ubuntu2                    wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime)
[12:40] <hub> I got an answer
[12:40] <hub> I have to fix the codef i'm building
[12:40] <\sh> hub: helped?
[12:41] <hub> trying to rebuild
[12:41] <hub> to see where the link error occurs
[12:42] <\sh> hub: but this is what you wanted
[12:42] <hub> what ? the packages ? I had them already
[12:42] <hub> it is not a package problem. It is a gcc4 problem
[12:42] <hub> or source code
[12:43] <hub> whichever is your point of view :-/
[12:43] <hub> I have to patch 
[12:43] <\sh> ah ok
[12:47] <hub> and my machine is slow
[12:48] <hub> thanks I don't build on the laptop
[12:48] <\sh> hub: i do :)
[12:49] <hub> but your laptop is probably faster than mine
[12:50] <\sh> dunno :)
[12:50] <karlheg> Is there ro access to revision controlled Ubuntu versions of packages?
[12:50] <hub> sh: Powerbook G3/400
[12:51] <karlheg> I would like to suggest a few changes, and would prefer to submit them to the maintainer in patch format.
[12:51] <karlheg> I'm wondering if you keep a central repository?
[12:53] <jdub> karlheg: other than the source package repositories, not yet. that will be changing pretty soon, though.
[12:55] <karlheg> baz or tla, I hope?
[01:00] <karlheg> I've just begun to learn to use 'xtla', in GNU Emacs.  It's a very nicely done interface to 'tla'.  I don't know if it works with 'baz'; I've just begun learning about them.
[01:04] <cartel_> hmm, wikipage says winbind in ubuntu hoary is 3.0.14 but i dont have it
[01:04] <cartel_> i have 3.0.10
[01:05] <cartel_> oh, its in breezy
[01:05] <cartel_> crap i dont want to use breezy
[01:07] <ogra> cartel_, recompile the package, apt-get {build-dep,source -b} is your friend
[01:07] <cartel_> ogra: thats what im doing ;)
[01:10] <cartel_> ogra: but once again it is a pain to not update hoary with bugfixes
[01:10] <ogra> cartel_, debian does the same
[01:11] <ogra> only security and dataloss fixes
[01:11] <cartel_> ogra: i know
[01:11] <cartel_> ogra: it pisses me off actually
[01:12] <cartel_> ogra: at least in debian you can subscribe to proposed-updates
[01:12] <azeem> cartel_: not that proposed-update is any good
[01:12] <azeem> it's either crack or 'security and dataloss fixes'
[01:12] <karlheg> Wow, xtla makes pcl-cvs look like a toy.
[01:13] <cartel_> something should be done
[01:13] <cartel_> create a bugfix team ;)
[01:14] <ogra> cartel_, we actually think about a backports team... so you can use these from a controlled source
[01:14] <azeem> cartel_: "something" is called "6-month release cycle"
[01:15] <cartel_> azeem: 6 months with broken functionality not good
[01:15] <cartel_> azeem: sorry client that doesnt work. wait 6 months
[01:15] <cartel_> and it MAY work
[01:15] <azeem> cartel_: is that a package in main?
[01:15] <cartel_> azeem: its a package which is in main and has a component in universe
[01:16] <cartel_> azeem: which will get promoted to main for breezy
[01:16] <azeem> cartel_: so it should work then :)
[01:16] <cartel_> azeem: but it doesnt :)
[01:16] <azeem> or else keep helping on it till it rocks
[01:16] <cartel_> azeem: because hoary froze before the bugfix was in
[01:16] <ogra> cartel_, these are two different source packages
[01:17] <cartel_> ogra: no they arent
[01:17] <ogra> openssh-krb5 and openssh 
[01:17] <azeem> cartel_: I mean for breezy
[01:17] <cartel_> ogra: not talking about that any more
[01:17] <cartel_> ogra: on to samba :)
[01:17] <cartel_> azeem: fixed in breezy
[01:17] <Burgundavia> jdub, ping
[01:17] <azeem> cool!
[01:18] <jdub> Burgundavia: pong
[01:18] <jdub> yo azeem 
[01:18] <jdub> azeem: good summary :)
[01:19] <Burgundavia> jdub, there wasa 3.0 mockup on d-d, which a change menu. Do you have that link?
[01:19] <azeem> jdub: I tried to pass it by mako, but he was on a plane or something :-/
[01:19] <ajmitch> hey azeem 
[01:19] <azeem> hey andrew
[01:22] <Burgundavia> jdub, nev mind
[01:26] <azeem> jdub: so if you think there's errors or omissions, please let me know :)
[02:17] <hub> gcc4 piss me off
[02:17] <hub> I can't package this software on breezy
[02:18] <azeem> just Build-Depend on gcc-3.4 :)
[02:19] <hub> azeem: but the C++ it link against ?
[02:19] <hub> wxwin
[02:19] <azeem> oh...
[02:19] <hub> boost
[02:19] <hub> that's why I have to rebuild it
[02:21] <hub> it got de-installed by the whole upgrade
[02:21] <hub> so I'm trying to make a clean packaging
[04:02] <bddebian> Anyone home?
[04:03] <cartel_> yahoo
[04:04] <bddebian> cartel_: Do you know another mirror for Breezy?
[04:05] <cartel_> bddebian: nz.archive.ubuntu.org? 
[04:06] <cartel_> should i tell users how to build/install samba from breezy for hoary in the wiki?
[04:06] <cartel_> or is that considered harmful?
[04:07] <cartel_> ogra? anyone?
[04:08] <cartel_> wtf
[04:08] <cartel_> weird wiki syntax
[04:17] <infinity> cartel_ : Encouraging users to backport packages themselves is considered harmful, yes, because they lose security updates.
[04:18] <cartel_> infinity: well the wiki has broken info as it stands, reccomending them to install the package from breezy, but providing no instructions
[04:18] <infinity> cartel_ : And samba has had its fair share of security problems over the years.  Leaving users vulnerable is not nice.
[04:18] <cartel_> infinity: but they ARE vulnerable. we're still running 3.0.10 in hoary
[04:19] <infinity> Vulnerable to...?
[04:20] <cartel_> bugs? ;)
[04:21] <cartel_> i thought there was another security issue between 3.0.10 and 3.0.14 but evidently not
[04:22] <infinity> If there's a security vuln, we'll backport the patch to 3.0.10.
[04:22] <cartel_> interesting... ibm guys commiting to samba
[04:22] <infinity> But if users have 3.0.14a installed, they won't get the update.
[04:22] <infinity> Which sucks.
[04:22] <cartel_> infinity: ouch
[04:23] <cartel_> infinity: as it stands you cant auth to win2003 sp1 with versions <3.0.14a
[04:23] <infinity> If you want to make that VERY clear in those directions, then fine.
[04:23] <cartel_> as you say it will cause more problems than it fixes
[04:23] <infinity> If you can find me a patch to apply to 3.0.10 to fix the specific bug and none other, I may be able to push it unto hoary-updates.
[04:24] <cartel_> i will need to trawl through the svn history
[04:24] <infinity> But telling users (many of whom dont' really think of the consequences) to install unsupported packages can be catastrophic.
[04:24] <infinity> There have been many worms in the past that spread through vulnerable samba installations, so it's not just hand waving on my part.
[04:27] <cartel_> fair enough
[04:27] <cartel_> those poor users :p
[05:17] <bob2> tseng: http://kirby.insanegenius.net/postfix.html
[05:20] <cartel_> kirby looking for dox on postfix?
[05:23] <hub> okay, found a gcc4 bug
[05:24] <Lathiat> join  the club :)
[05:24] <hub> yep
[05:25] <hub> hugin chokes on an inlined virtual destructor
[05:25] <hub> putting it in the .cpp works :-/
[05:32] <hub> but now the stupid debian packager believe this is a debian native
[05:32] <hub> bah
[05:36] <bob2> who's the person who packaged it?
[05:50] <hub> bob2: me
[05:50] <hub> bob2: it si not an ubuntu package
[05:51] <hub> bob2: I was talking about the software, not the person :-)
[05:52] <hub> but I probably messed up
[05:53] <bob2> do you know the difference between native and non-native?
[05:54] <hub> yeah
[05:54] <hub> but I probably messed up in creating the package
[05:54] <hub> because I did re-extract the tarball and did put my debian in it
[05:54] <hub> :-/
[05:55] <hub> so he probably believes it came with
[05:55] <bob2> why did you do that?
[05:55] <hub> because I messed up with the previous tarball while attempting to fix the gcc4 problem
[05:56] <hub> I'll try a third time
[06:06] <hub> ok
[06:06] <hub> should work this time
[06:19] <hub> now I need to apply to be a MOTU
[06:24] <zul> you might want to poeple in #ubuntu-motu
[06:30] <hub> I was reading the wiki
[07:55] <jsgotangco> JaneW, hi
[07:56] <jsgotangco> ooppss brb
[08:35] <pitti> Morning folks
[08:38] <JaneW> morning pitti
[08:38] <pitti> Hey JaneW 
[09:04] <dholbach> morning
[09:21] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:22] <karlheg> I'm looking at the udu.wiki and am wondering what does "BOF" stand for?  (dictd says "Birds of a Feather")
[09:22] <mdke> it means brainstorming session
[09:22] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:24] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:24] <mvo> morning all
[09:24] <dholbach> hey mvo :)
[09:24] <mvo> hey dholbach!
[09:26] <dholbach> karlheg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BOFs :)
[09:30] <jdub> hi dholbach 
[09:31] <dholbach> jdub: hey jeff! how are you?
[09:31] <jdub> ok
[09:31] <jdub> how's your thesis going?
[09:31] <jdub> haven't seen you around so much :)
[09:31] <dholbach> slowly evolving :)
[09:32] <dholbach> and if i find somebody who does my networking code^H^H^Herm ... gives me some input on ... 
[09:32] <dholbach> in 8 weeks it's over
[09:34] <dholbach> the hardest thing for me is staying away from all of you guys
[09:34] <jdub> heh
[09:34] <dholbach> the thesis itself is just fine ;)
[09:37] <dholbach> jdub: but the desktop team would better get going, as well as the bugsquad, maybe we could do another ubuntu-love day to recruit people for the teams :)
[09:39] <mdke> yeah that's a decent point
[09:43] <davyd> ok, I might have to do something creative, what is the atheros driver? and does it ship in the Hoary installer?
[09:45] <dholbach> rock, we're in the german news (with the breezy bounties): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/60996
[09:45] <martink> davyd: linux-restricted-modules comes with madwifi, the driver for atheros wlan chips
[09:46] <davyd> martink: which isn't in the installer?
[09:46] <martink> oh, the question was about the installer. Sorry. Don't know.
[09:48] <davyd> otherwise I might have to send a new kernel in my netboot image
[09:48] <davyd> or try to boot off USB
[09:51] <davyd> ok, perhaps breezy ships the same kernel
[09:56] <davyd> also, the hoary installer segfaults if you plug in a usb device
[09:57] <Lathiat> breezy has a 2.6.12 kernel but not in theinstaller yet i think
[09:57] <davyd> yeah
[09:57] <Lathiat> why not install hoary and l-r-m post-install ?
[09:59] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[10:00] <seb128> daniel :)))
[10:00] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[10:00] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: I got the gdm error this morning, and I do have xterm installed
[10:00] <davyd> Lathiat: first I have to install hoary
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: I've just fixed that and the autologin
[10:01] <seb128> before IRCing
[10:01] <davyd> I suppose I can install the first stage
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: that's not really an error, the upstream stuff tries to start Xclients, then xsm (which is this ugly stuff)
[10:02] <seb128> pitti: the Debian package has a change to that, I've zapped it when switching to cdbs, that's fixed now
[10:02] <pitti> cool
[10:04] <Lathiat> davyd: why cant you just install?
[10:05] <davyd> Lathiat: I can do the first stage install
[10:05] <Lathiat> davyd: so why arent you?:)
[10:06] <davyd> then I might be able to use usb2 prism
[10:06] <Lathiat> davyd: whats theproblem of just doing a whole hoary install?
[10:07] <davyd> Lathiat: no packages to do it with
[10:07] <davyd> hmm
[10:07] <davyd> back to square one, I still need packages
[10:07] <Lathiat> why dont you just get the iso
[10:07] <davyd> Lathiat: no CD-Rom
[10:07] <Lathiat> because your going to download it all anyway
[10:07] <Lathiat> ohhhh
[10:07] <Lathiat> now it makes sense
[10:07] <Lathiat> get the iso
[10:07] <Lathiat> mount loopback on your desktop
[10:07] <davyd> Lathiat: and USB devices crash it
[10:07] <Lathiat> and network install
[10:07] <Lathiat> (thats what i do)
[10:07] <Lathiat> oh, no network
[10:07] <Lathiat> hah
[10:07] <davyd> Lathiat: no network drivers
[10:07] <Lathiat> davyd: are you going to have a windows partition?
[10:07] <davyd> I'm not 100% an idiot
[10:07] <davyd> Lathiat: yes
[10:08] <Lathiat> davyd: put the iso on your windows partition and use expert mode and load the iso loopback off your windows partition
[10:08] <davyd> you're suggesting I loopback mount that?
[10:08] <Lathiat> (the installer has a mode for it, its not even hacky)
[10:10] <davyd> are you sure this is something you can do?
[10:10] <Lathiat> i feel dirty, im using kde
[10:11] <seb128> pitti: have you planned to review libmpc this week?
[10:12] <pitti> I can do that today if it's urgent
[10:12] <hunger> Is there a list of changes ubuntu did to vanilla gnome?
[10:15] <seb128> pitti: no hurry, we just can sync with Debian when this is ok
[10:15] <seb128> pitti: but sync next week is fine too :)
[10:16] <pitti> hunger: cat debian/patches/* of all gnome packages :-)
[10:17] <seb128> or read the debian/changelog (if that's no a mvo's sync :p)
[10:17] <hunger> pitti: Thanks!
[10:17] <seb128> usually patches are listed by the changelog
[10:18] <hunger> kubuntu used to have a wiki page listing the mayor changes they wanted to do. I thought maybe there is something similar for gnome.
[10:18] <seb128> pitti: funny "g-v-m opens my trash" bug BTW :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> seb128: url?
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: indeed :)
[10:18] <seb128> hunger: we don't plan to make a lot of distro specific changes
[10:19] <seb128> Lathiat: just a bugzilla bug, trash:// being open due to an USB mouse moving and clicking when plugged
[10:19] <Lathiat> heh
[10:20] <hunger> seb128: Gnome does almost feel nice in ubuntu... Damn, if you didn't do many changes then I might end up having to readjust my perception that gnome sucks;-)
[10:20] <seb128> ah ah
[10:20] <davyd> woot
[10:20] <davyd> PCMCIA for the win
[10:21] <jdub> hunger: there is a page of branding related changes that covers a few other things - search for branding in the wiki
[10:21] <jdub> hunger: but in general, it's very similar to stock gnome, with skin deep changes (theme, etc)
[10:22] <hunger> jdub: OK, thanks!
[10:29] <dsevilla> hi, anybody knows when linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12 are expected?
[10:31] <Lathiat> dsevilla: when they arrive
[10:32] <dsevilla> Lathiat, yeah, wow, I must have suspected it :)
[10:35] <dholbach>  /query jdub
[10:35] <dholbach> now you all know it :)
[10:38] <mako> azeem: i'm in your country now if it's not too late for me to look it over
[10:38] <jsgotangco> hey mako!
[10:38] <mako> i'm putting together my own talk(s) now but it's fine
[10:43] <seb128> jdub, mako: did vuntz contact you about CD for the RMLL?
[10:43] <jdub> seb128: vuntz asked me, i directed him to mako/jane
[10:44] <seb128> k
[10:44] <mako> seb128: are you going to be at RMLL?
[10:44] <seb128> no
[10:44] <mako> :(
[10:46] <jsgotangco> hmm adi sent an email about the certification thing and posted it on the wiki..
[11:13] <Treenaks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/betaTesting is a bit outdated...
[11:45] <daniels> Amaranth: awesome
[11:59] <dholbach> brb
[12:08] <guim> hi all
[12:08] <guim> is there any people from the original company Canonical here?
[12:09] <pitti> "original"?
[12:09] <guim> euh
[12:09] <guim> working for the company, i wanted to mean
[12:09] <guim> sorry
[12:09] <pitti> sure
[12:10] <Keybuk> plenty of us
[12:10] <pitti> the part that works on the distribution is here at least
[12:10] <guim> nice!
[12:10] <guim> ok, i have some question/suggestion i 'd like to report to some of you guys them,
[12:10] <guim> but do you mind if i do so in private first?
[12:11] <Lathiat> daniels: is it possible to deactivate a screen on the fly
[12:11] <Lathiat> daniels: or at least stop the mouse wandering into it
[12:11] <Keybuk> guim: we're a pretty public company, why not just speak here?
[12:12] <guim> ok
[12:12] <guim> no problem
[12:12] <guim> let me present myself first then :
[12:12] <guim> i am a developer in the following opensrouce project www.claroline.net
[12:13] <guim> this is a LMS (Learning Management System) in  PHP/Mysql
[12:13] <daniels> Lathiat: nope
[12:13] <guim> I don't know if some of you knows a bit about our project?
[12:14] <Amaranth> ogra might
[12:14] <Amaranth> he seems to be doing a lot of work on the edubuntu project
[12:15] <guim> the thing is that i wonder if there could be an "arrangment" between our project and the ubuntu comunity 
[12:16] <guim> but i have to tell that i am only starting with ubuntu, and for now, I don't much already about the organisation of the community
[12:16] <ogra> guim, subscribe to edubuntu-devel (low traffic) and ask there ;)
[12:16] <guim> ok thanks
[12:16] <infinity> guim : Speaking of your project...
[12:16] <guim> yes?
[12:16] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[12:16] <infinity> guim : I don't suppose you guys would mind rewriting your code to not require register_globals?
[12:17] <guim> it is done
[12:17] <guim> for next version
[12:17] <infinity> guim : Ah,, then can you update your docs? :)
[12:17] <guim> well, not released yet
[12:17] <infinity> guim : Asking users to turn it on opens a pretyt big can of worms.
[12:17] <guim> but it will be soon for an alpha 1.7
[12:17] <infinity> guim : Right, cool.  Thanks.
[12:17] <guim> no problem
[12:24] <carlos> fabbione, hi, will you have some time today to help me fixing my kernel issue?
[12:25] <ogra> carlos, he is on holiday (long weekend)
[12:25] <carlos> oh!, right
[12:25] <carlos> :-(
[12:25] <carlos> too late...
[12:26] <carlos> ogra, anyway, thanks
[12:26] <Lathiat> does breezy enable the thing like dmix for recording in alsa?
[12:28] <pitti> Lathiat: I didn't check that
[12:28] <pitti> Lathiat: so far it does enable dmix for playback
[12:28] <pitti> didn't check dsnoo
[12:28] <Lathiat> ok
[12:28] <pitti> dsnoop, even
[12:29] <Lathiat> tats the one
[12:35] <ups> there is a bug report on "skype" in bugzilla - what can be done to that? skype isn't in the ubuntu repositories right?
[12:35] <dholbach> ups: no it isn't - it's non-free
[12:35] <Lathiat> nope its not
[12:36] <Lathiat> (they provide ubuntu packages tho)
[12:36] <ups> so i should close the bug?
[12:36] <Lathiat> (which is probably why they are filing it here)
[12:36] <Lathiat> not sure
[12:36] <Lathiat> i assume
[12:36] <Lathiat> forwarding it upstream to be nice?
[12:37] <ups> does that mean that i should file a bug upstream too? or just make a comment?
[12:42] <JanC> Lathiat : skype isn't nice to others (no open protocol), so why should we be nice to them?  ;-)
[12:42] <Lathiat> you have to give them some credit
[12:43] <tseng> they built a linux client
[12:43] <Lathiat> they use dbus, they have good packages
[12:43] <tseng> we should have more non-free linux clients
[12:43] <Lathiat> they dont use 0.3x yet tho
[12:43] <tseng> not chase away the people that give us some
[12:43] <Lathiat> tseng: are you being sarcastic or serious?
[12:43] <tseng> serious
[12:43] <JanC> I have no problem with them being non-free
[12:44] <Lathiat> JanC: theres a good reason they dont use an open protocol
[12:44] <JanC> but I care about open communication
[12:44] <Lathiat> i just wish theyd interface with open protocols
[12:44] <Lathiat> JanC: basically, because of the way it works
[12:44] <Lathiat> p2p, nat traversal etc
[12:44] <Lathiat> what they need is a sip gateway
[12:45] <JanC> or just open their protocol   :)
[12:45] <Lathiat> and their problem is they dont want to open it up becaause the network relies on people doing other peoples phone call traffic
[12:45] <tseng> JanC: they have a product to sell
[12:45] <Lathiat> and then they'll get clients that wont and then fuck the network
[12:45] <Lathiat> (from their point of view)
[12:46] <tseng> JanC: i go to work every day and write code I have no intentions of showing you. i need a paycheck like everyone else here
[12:47] <JanC> well, they could provide a closed source lib maybe ?
[12:48] <tseng> eh, theyd need a very thorough API doc at that point
[12:48] <tseng> api + sniffer -> easy reversal
[12:48] <Lathiat> JanC: they have an api ;)
[12:48] <Lathiat> heh
[12:48] <tseng> JanC: we should be supporting commercial ISV's bringing their products to linux as much as we can
[12:49] <JanC> tseng : I have no problem with commercial / closed source companies
[12:49] <JanC> but I have a problem with closed protocols / file formats
[12:49] <tseng> well the protocol is the key piece of skype
[12:50] <tseng> anyone can make a nice interface on top of SIP
[12:54] <ups> bug #11785 is marked as Blocker, priority P1 - is it ok to change it to more like Normal, P2?
[01:46] <`anthony> just a heads-up - there's a critical bug in dbus-python, with a patch attached to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1844. Any time a python app has more than one thread, dbus python will segfault. 
[01:52] <Nafallo> livecds seems borked :-P

[01:53] <doko> `anthony: yes, that's https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7292
[01:53] <davyd> is the reason that there is no atheros driver for 2.6.12 the fact that it's actually uncompilable?
[01:54] <davyd> or am I simply an idiot?
[01:54] <davyd> also, is there a reason there is no sk98lin driver in the 2.6.12 kernels?
[01:54] <ogra> davyd, i guess the atheros driver is in linux-restricted-modules..... which is nonexistent currently
[01:54] <davyd> ogra: right
[01:55] <ogra> davyd, so stay with 2.6.10 or wait....
[01:55] <davyd> I was trying to compile the source, so far with no joy... it might be a gcc-4.0 hating-ism
[01:55] <davyd> ogra: at the moment, I have no supported network cards
[01:55] <Lathiat> davyd: you need to compile with gcc-3.4
[01:55] <ogra> davyd, the kernel doesnt compile with gcc-4.0 
[01:55] <Lathiat> davyd: (cus the kernel is built with gcc-3.4 at the moment)
[01:55] <davyd> the version of madwifi in the Ubuntu 2.6.10 is not so working
[01:55] <davyd> Lathiat: yep. realise this
[01:55] <Lathiat> yeh it sucks apparently
[01:56] <davyd> I think madwifi might have been ignoring my request to use 3.4
[01:56] <davyd> I'll play with this some more in a bit
[01:56] <Lathiat> change the symlink
[01:56] <Lathiat> thats what i do
[01:56] <Lathiat> tho nvidia suspend CC=
[01:56] <Lathiat> so i dontneedto atm
[01:57] <davyd> I would have update-alternatives'd
[01:57] <Lathiat> supports
[01:57] <Lathiat> i swear my brain just fucks withw ords sometimes
[01:57] <davyd> but it seems there is to be no joy from that division
[01:57] <Lathiat> davyd: no imean like, rm /usr/bin/gcc ; l n -s /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 /usr/bin/gcc ;)
[01:57] <davyd> Lathiat: yeah, I could
[01:57] <davyd> I'm currently building a 2.6.12 with the module I think I need for my wired network
[01:57] <davyd> we'll see how that goes
[01:58] <Lathiat> interesting, sk98lin was in .10
[01:58] <davyd> yeah
[01:58] <Lathiat> and not in l-r-m
[01:58] <davyd> there is an skfp, which probes... but does nothing
[01:59] <davyd> so I'm trying rebuilding with it in .12
[01:59] <davyd> since it didn't work in .10
[01:59] <Lathiat> bought the wrong laptop :)
[01:59] <davyd> heh
[01:59] <Lathiat> you should replace the atheros minipci with an intel :)
[01:59] <davyd> I knew it couldn't be 100% painless
[02:00] <Lathiat> and ebay the atheros :)
[02:00] <davyd> perhaps replace it with my orinoco gold
[02:00] <Lathiat> (im serious :)
[02:00] <Lathiat> davyd: thats minipci?
[02:00] <davyd> yeah
[02:00] <Lathiat> davyd: cool, no g love tho
[02:00] <Nafallo> rt2500 works, a bit :-)
[02:00] <`anthony> doko: cool - have added a note to that bug, too.
[02:01] <davyd> you can't buy a brand new, top of the range laptop and expect everything to be supported in released linux
[02:01] <davyd> unless the vendor loves you
[02:01] <davyd> or it's a boring machine :(
[02:01] <Nafallo> there is a major rewrite of the drivers for rt2x00 and it's included in the main kernel :-=
[02:01] <Lathiat> i dunno, my dell worked pretty good
[02:01] <Nafallo> in ubuntu
[02:01] <Lathiat> it had been around for a wee while tho
[02:01] <Lathiat> but it was pretty highly specced
[02:01] <davyd> Lathiat: yeah, most stuff on this thing just works
[02:01] <davyd> just no network cards
[02:01] <davyd> which is strange
[02:01] <Lathiat> davyd: but like, my wireless is centrino
[02:01] <Lathiat> and my ethernet is broadcom
[02:02] <davyd> since network cards are usually the most boring thing on the machine
[02:02] <Lathiat> which have been around for quitea while
[02:02] <Lathiat> i wish this had gigE
[02:02] <davyd> I was surprised not to have the Intel GigE chip
[02:02] <Lathiat> only thing thats annoying
[02:02] <davyd> it's interesting that only a few people use it
[02:02] <Lathiat> davyd: most onboard stuff is yukon
[02:02] <davyd> I wonder if it's expensive
[02:02] <Lathiat> most motherboards with onboard gig have marvell yukons too
[02:02] <davyd> worse comes to worse, I'll just have to ndiswrapper them
[02:02] <Lathiat> some broadcom
[02:04] <davyd> I should have set my kernel building on here
[02:04] <davyd> oh well
[02:05] <Lathiat> hows the 10mbit xircom pcmcia? :)
[02:05] <Lathiat> davyd: so was this davyd-funded or work-funded?
[02:06] <davyd> I start a new job Monday
[02:06] <davyd> this will be davyd funded
[02:06] <Keybuk> GAH!  Now I'm getting Cc'd on the mom "further changes have been made" comments
[02:06] <ogra> heh
[02:07] <davyd> but I have established a payment plan with (old-)work to do it
[02:07] <Lathiat> davyd: ooh what job?
[02:07] <Lathiat> davyd: the gtk coding one?
[02:07] <Lathiat> hm global keybd shortcuts dont work accross X screens
[02:07] <Lathiat> thats mildly annoying
[02:08] <davyd> Lathiat: yep
[02:08] <davyd> we'll see how that goes
[02:08] <davyd> if I hate it, I'll go back to systems programing
[02:08] <Lathiat> cool
[02:09] <Keybuk> hmm, does bugzilla not let you change the reporter e-mail address?
[02:09] <davyd> Keybuk: unlikely
[02:10] <Keybuk> meh
[02:10] <Keybuk> how stupid
[02:11] <davyd> it's not often that you need to change the reporter I would guess
[02:14] <Nafallo> damn!
[02:14] <Nafallo> I'm locked out from launchpad :-(
[02:14] <Nafallo> seems it can't handle passwords generated with pwgen -cnys 72 :-(
[02:15] <Mithrandir> you could consider passwords less than 72 characters long. :-P
[02:16] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: only when they are not supported ;-)
[02:16] <Nafallo> I like those systems where you get warned that the password won't work while changing it ;-)
[02:16] <HWolf> Nafallo, you are seriously able to remember such an insane password? :P
[02:17] <Nafallo> HWolf: nope, but Firefox will :-)
[02:17] <Nafallo> HWolf: and so will my .txt on the really small cf-card and the print-out from that .txt when I'm done with it :-).
[02:18] <HWolf> Nafallo, sounds like very very dangerous behavior. :P
[02:18] <Nafallo> hihi
[02:18] <HWolf> What's the use of a password if you'll print it out, and carry it around.
[02:18] <Nafallo> _BUT_, it will get hard for people to bruteforce that one ;-)
[02:18] <Nafallo> only locked me out from 3-4 sites yet ;-)
[02:19] <HWolf> Yeah, but anyone who is smart, would just try to hack your firefox. :P
[02:19] <Nafallo> I won't carry it around.
[02:19] <Nafallo> I will follow Mithrandir's advice about bankvalves :-)
[02:19] <Nafallo> HWolf: hehe
[02:20] <HWolf> For the record, I have no right to speak, I just gave my bank-pass and PIN to my mother. :)
[02:20] <Nafallo> firefox has less then 30 chars :-/
[02:21] <HWolf> Nafallo, so what if your pc gets robbed of you? :P
[02:22] <Nafallo> HWolf: yea, I have to teach the bios to ignore ESC or something :-/
[02:24] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: you can try to just cut down the password to 64 chars or other similar "magic" limits
[02:25] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: worked :-9
[02:26] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: thanx. you deserve another hug or something :-)
[02:26] <Mithrandir> you can buy me beer when you get around
[02:26] <Nafallo> hehe, if I find a way to have more money than 1,91SEK after the bills... :-P
[02:27] <Mithrandir> heh
[02:27] <Nafallo> i.e. current condition :-/
[02:29] <Nafallo> hmm
[02:29] <Nafallo> bugzilla supports 16 chars passwd :-P
[03:13] <dholbach> see you later
[04:10] <ddaa> Hey guys.
[04:10] <ddaa> Is there some sort of official bulgarian loco guy for ubuntu?
[04:11] <ddaa> I need help for making a good description of https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/bgoffice
[04:11] <ddaa> homepage: http://bgoffice.sourceforge.net/
[04:19] <JaneW> I just got an e-mail saying 'Please integrate Speedtouch USB 330(and other models) support in the next release of Ubuntu.' Is that doable, or is that one of those proprietary driver ones..?
[04:20] <kiko> hey uberhackers
[04:20] <kiko> countdown to bugday
[04:20] <Nafallo> hi kiko :-)
[04:20] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I think it's doable.  They have firmware, but the driver is free, afaik.
[04:22] <seb128> elmo: drivel sync please
[04:25] <JaneW> Mithrandir: thanks
[04:25] <ogra> Mithrandir, isnt that already in ?
[04:26] <Mithrandir> ogra: I don't know, but if not, it should be doable.
[04:26] <ogra> sure, but i think its already contained
[04:27] <Mithrandir> seems like there's a driver there, but I couldn't see any firmware
[04:27] <Mithrandir> and the module has request_firmware in it
[04:27] <Lathiat> seb128: yay drivel
[04:28] <Lathiat> seb128: 2.0 i assume?
[04:42] <nictuku> hi. I'm stuck in a bug that is something like debian's #266591
[04:47] <martinhj> I got an idea conserning network-admin: (1) I think it should update dhclient.conf to send the current hostname to DNS/DHCP (send host-name in dhclient.conf)
[04:53] <martinhj> anybody here working with the gnome-system-tools package?
[04:54] <seb128> Lathiat: whatever Debian has, that doesn't matter, why?
[04:54] <seb128> Lathiat: 2.0.1 atm
[04:56] <Lathiat> seb128: funk (we had 1.x before, 2.0 is a *big* improvement :)
[04:57] <ogra> martinhj, network-admin is likely to dissapear from our desktop since we got network-manager which will become the default for breezy
[04:57] <martinhj> ogra: the one from redhat / suse rlove is working on?
[04:58] <ogra> martinhj, yep, but with some adjustments and modicfications to fit into ubuntu
[04:59] <martinhj> like support for the debian config files (networking/interfaces)?
[04:59] <martinhj> I like that in network-admin:-)
[05:01] <tseng> it uses networking/interfaces
[05:03] <martinhj> tseng: sorry, I ment /etc/network/interfaces-file
[05:03] <martinhj> the ...-file
[05:09] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:20] <mdz> pitti: morning
[05:21] <mdz> jbailey-gcc: I think we should probably do a backport of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11730 to Hoary; it seems to have pretty broad impact and the fix is simple and isolated
[05:26] <jbailey-gcc> mdz: Okay.  It's close enough to when the Hoary snapshot was taken that if there's other patches that it depends on they'll likely be pretty small.
[05:27] <mdz> jbailey-gcc: will you prepare an update?
[05:28] <mdz> kiko: you are moving in on my territory, replying to months-old messages
[05:29] <kiko> mdz, I'm sorry, I need to clear them out and I still have 450 unread :-(
[05:30] <mdz> doko: thanks for the oo.o2 update; what's the status of the 64-bit work?
[05:33] <bddebian> Hello
[05:35] <mdz> bddebian: hi
[05:36] <mdz> has Kamion been around today?  he was having problems with his Internet connection
[05:37] <mdz> elmo: what's the word on backports?
[05:37] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[05:39] <lamont__> mdz: how does hoary-backports differ from hoary-updates?
[05:39] <mdz> lamont__: different use case, different process
[05:40] <mdz> hoary-updates policy remains unchanged, but hoary-backports will be similar to what the backports team is already doing
[05:40] <pitti> Hi lamont__ 
[05:40] <lamont__> mdz: ok
[05:41] <lamont__> mdz: fwiw, buildd's are just waiting for w-b to believe that the suite exists
[05:41] <sabdfl> mdz: i see gmail is being translated. if its in po files they might want to consider rosetta
[05:42] <mdz> sabdfl: just the UI, or more than that?
[05:42] <sabdfl> ui only i think
[05:42] <sabdfl> not sure how they do the back end page generation, it may not involve po files
[05:42] <sabdfl> but if it does, rosetta would be perfect for them
[05:43] <mdz> sabdfl: I'll see if I can make contact with somebody
[05:43] <mdz> interesting use case, translating web applications
[05:44] <\sh> re
[05:47] <jbailey-gcc> mdz: Yup.  (lagging for lunch)
[05:54] <pitti> GTK BUG!
[05:54] <pitti> seb128: installing the control-center build deps fails currently... for you too?
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: which one?
[05:54] <pitti> ouch
[05:54] <pitti>   libgnome-desktop-dev: Depends: libgnomeui-dev (>= 2.6.0) but it is not installable
[05:54] <pitti>   libnautilus-extension-dev: Depends: libeel2-dev (>= 2.9.91) but it is not installable
[05:54] <pitti>                              Depends: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.5.4) but it is not installable
[05:55] <seb128> please find the broken one with some apt-get install :)
[05:55] <seb128> what arch are you using?
[05:55] <pitti> i386
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: how can I debug that again?
[05:55] <seb128> apt-get install libbonoboui2-dev
[05:56] <pitti>   libbonoboui2-dev: Hngt ab: libesd0-dev soll aber nicht installiert werden
[05:56] <pitti> ah, that rings a bell
[05:56] <seb128> so you screwed :)
[05:56] <pitti> seb128: just uploaded a new esound...
[05:56] <pitti> seb128: sorry to bother you, I owe you a beer
[05:57] <ogra> pitti, _you_ create gtk bugs ?
[05:57] <seb128> np :)
[05:57] <seb128> fresh beer, aaaah
[05:57] <pitti> ogra: sure, h4cking control-center now
[05:57] <seb128> I want it NOW 
[05:57] <ogra> hehe
[05:57] <bddebian> jbailey-gcc!!
[05:57] <pitti> ogra: I taught esound to reconnect to the sound device after changing alsa conf
[05:58] <ogra> yay
[05:58] <\sh> seb128: prost
[05:58] <pitti> ogra: now I have to kick esd when doing that in g-sound-props
[05:58] <pitti> brzbrbzbzzzzzz
[05:58] <ogra> i thought it should disappear anyway
[05:58] <\sh> well...u try I drink ;)
[05:58] <ogra> (not the beer though)
[05:58] <pitti> ogra: I'd like to, but polypaudio still crashes too often
[05:58] <seb128> pitti: do you have a public pmount revision control?
[05:59] <seb128> pitti: a GNOME guy is asking on IRC
[05:59] <pitti> ogra: so I want a working esound as a fallback
[05:59] <ogra> ah, ok
[05:59] <pitti> seb128: sure, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/pmount/
[05:59] <pitti> seb128: it's bazaar-ng though
[05:59] <seb128> k
[05:59] <pitti> seb128: I recently converted from baz to test it
[05:59] <seb128> thanks
[06:00] <pitti> that's also mentioned in the upstream changelog
[06:01] <kiko> mdz, bradb asked for monday meeting on LPI for Malone, good day or bad day?
[06:01] <mdz> kiko: bad for me
[06:01] <kiko> why don't you say so in the email then
[06:02] <mdz> but I don't necessarily need to be there
[06:02] <mdz> kiko: I'll get there ;-)
[06:02] <kiko> if you don't go I won't either!
[06:09] <bddebian> ANyone here work on the Live CDs?
[06:09] <mdz> yes
[06:10] <bddebian> How do you folks do video driver detection for X ?
[06:10] <mdz> the same way that the xserver-xorg package does it (discover1)
[06:10] <bddebian> Ah, we don't have xorg.. :-(
[06:11] <bddebian> Do you know how knoppix does it?
[06:11] <mdz> xserver-xfree86 does the same thing
[06:11] <bddebian> Oh, thanks
[06:13] <bddebian> mdz: Sorry to keep bugging you but does discover work in userland or Linux kernel drivers?
[06:13] <mdz> bddebian: apt-get source discover1
[06:13] <mdz> it is a userland program
[06:13] <bddebian> Awesome, thanks
[06:14] <bddebian> Most likely we don't have it in GNU/Hurd.. ;-)
[06:14] <mdz> the part of it that X uses just looks up strings in a text file
[06:15] <mdz> that's all it does, really (look up Linux kernel modules and X drivers in a text file)
[06:15] <bddebian> So then do you folks modify XF86COnfig-4?
[06:15] <mdz> no, we use X.org
[06:16] <bddebian> Oh yeah, sorry
[06:35] <Kamion> yay, finally
[06:35] <pitti> Kamion: you have network again?
[06:35] <bddebian> Hello Kamion
[06:35] <daniels> Kamion: yo
[06:35] <Kamion> pitti: yes, eventually
[06:35] <bddebian> Ahh, /me just reliazed who Kamion is
[06:35] <pitti> cool
[06:36] <Kamion> today was basically a dead loss though
[06:38] <pitti> 'lo smurfix
[06:39] <smurfix> Damn power failures, even if only for 1/5th second or so :-/
[06:39] <Lathiat> thats what my ups with a 10 secondbattery is for :)
[06:40] <ddaa> Hey kamion
[06:40] <ddaa> Kamion: some VCS questions...
[06:41] <ddaa> Kamion: do you know where are the VCSes for bf-utf (boot-floopies fonts) and cdbs?
[06:42] <thom> cdbs is on alioth, afaik
[06:42] <pitti> GNUer: hey, what happened to your kernel? :-)
[06:42] <ogra> smurfix, time to get more UPSes in your house....
[06:43] <GNUer> pitti> lol
[06:43] <GNUer> pitti> I shifted to Hurd
[06:43] <ddaa> thom: which svn/cvs repo?
[06:43] <smurfix> ogra: No. Time to use the laptop more. ;-)
[06:43] <ogra> heh :)
[06:43] <thom> ddaa: http://alioth.debian.org/scm/?group_id=30012
[06:44] <bddebian> GNUer: Awesome ;-)
[06:44] <mdz> heh, lost Kamion again
[06:44] <GNUer> bddebian> :)
[06:44] <davyd> so, if I sent you dudes a really creepy kernel patch, that I don't quite understand; what would you do with it?
[06:44] <bddebian> GNUer: So you gonna help us with L4? ;-)
[06:45] <GNUer> bddebian> I hope it's just a joke
[06:45] <bddebian> Hey, what's just a joke?
[06:45] <GNUer> bddebian> what you just said
[06:45] <ddaa> thom: you are saying that cdbs = build-common, right?
[06:45] <mdz> Kamion: welcome back
[06:46] <thom> ddaa: yes
[06:46] <bddebian> GNUer: What, L4?
[06:46] <GNUer> bddebian> is it true that there are only a few devels working on Hurd?
[06:46] <Kamion> oh my god, my IRC client is horribly confused, one sec
[06:46] <mdz> Kamion: will you be able to stay awhile? ;-)
[06:46] <thom> it being called the common debian build system
[06:46] <bddebian> GNUer: I suppose that depends on your definition
[06:46] <Kamion> it's displaying everything in one window, 1997-stylee
[06:46] <ddaa> thom: it's not like the gforge page is of any help, but I already noticed build-common on svn.debian.org
[06:46] <ddaa> thanks
[06:46] <GNUer> bddebian> definition of ?
[06:46] <Kamion> mdz: uh, maybe, gonna have to quit just now :-)
[06:46] <bddebian> "only a few"
[06:47] <GNUer> bddebian> compared to Linux?
[06:47] <bddebian> GNUer: There are very few working on L4 yes
[06:47] <GNUer> bddebian> otherwise why is its development so slow?
[06:47] <bddebian> GNUer: Yes, we have "few" compared to Linux
[06:47] <GNUer> bddebian> it's very sad
[06:47] <bddebian> Yes it is
[06:47] <GNUer> bddebian> and people are dubbing it as vaporware, bloatware, etc.
[06:47] <Kamion> that's better
[06:48] <Kamion> ddaa: if nobody said - cdbs has nothing to do with me, despite popular misconceptions
[06:48] <GNUer> bddebian> I'd love to see a competing kernel to Linux :(
[06:48] <Kamion> ddaa: I doubt bf-utf is in version control at all
[06:48] <ddaa> Kamion: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/devel/cdbs
[06:48] <ddaa> that says "CDBS Hackers, Colin Walters, Jeff Bailey, Jonas Smedegaard, Chris Cheney and Stefan Gybas are responsible for this Debian package."
[06:48] <bddebian> GNUer: I don't think the Mach iteration would ever be.  If we could get L4 going, there might be a chance
[06:48] <Kamion> ddaa: *Walters*, not Watson
[06:48] <mdz> Kamion: so I've gotten to the interesting part of ubuntu-express
[06:48] <ddaa> ho... right.
[06:49] <GNUer> bddebian> what's RMS saying about that?
[06:49] <bddebian> GNUer: Who cares. :-)
[06:49] <GNUer> bddebian> :)
[06:49] <Kamion> ddaa: I'm extremely familiar with the confusion
[06:51] <thom> it'd have been so much funnier had canonical hired walters
[06:51] <mdz> Kamion: it's time to interface with grub-installer
[06:51] <bddebian> thom: Hehe
[06:52] <Kamion> ok, so we're going to need to pull grub-installer.postinst apart at last then
[06:52] <ddaa> Here's James, and James. Daniel, and Daniel. Colin and Colin. And no, they do not all quite do the same thing, but almost :)
[06:52] <Mithrandir> thom: we'd have some variety from the Janes at least. ;-)
[06:56] <Kamion> mdz: sorry, this connection is just hopelessly flaky, I don't know what's wrong - it keeps randomly dropping out
[06:56] <Kamion> mdz: last thing I saw was:
[06:56] <Kamion> 17:52 -!- dato_ [~adeodato@84-120-79-57.onocable.ono.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: I've successfully ignored the partman stuff so far; did anything happen wrt upstream and merging partman-* into one?
[06:57] <Kamion> mdz: some people liked the idea, but Anton (the primary author) was really quite against it
[06:58] <mdz> Kamion: was there a thread on -boot I can look at?
[06:58] <Kamion> there was, I'll see if my connection lasts long enough to dig it out
[06:58] <mdz> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2005/05/msg00298.html
[06:59] <Kamion> you beat me to it
[07:01] <mdz> Kamion: I don't find Anton's argument very convincing
[07:01] <mdz> merging the existing components shouldn't make it harder to create new partman-* source packages if that's desirable
[07:02] <Kamion> nor did I - I'm belatedly replying now
[07:07] <\sh> who can push octave2.1 again into the buildds? :)
[07:08] <mdz> \sh: infinity or lamont
[07:09] <\sh> ok weekend...so we w8t :)
[07:10] <mahmoud> hello...I'm recompiling the kernel to add support to the "perfctr" module...it builds and installs fine, but when it boots it complains about a missing "/lib/modules/2.6.10/modules.dep" although it's there...any idea?
[07:10] <\sh> initrd kernel?
[07:11] <mahmoud> hmm...what do you mean exactly?
[07:13] <\sh> the first the kernel is taking is the initrd with a modules directory....or are you compiling without initrd support?
[07:13] <ogra> mahmoud, why do you recompile the whole kernel for one module ? 
[07:14] <ogra> mahmoud, it should be possible to just compile this module if you have the linux-heasers package installed
[07:14] <ogra> linux-headers even
[07:14] <mahmoud> \sh, the logs did specify the correct module path, so i don't think that's the issue
[07:14] <davyd> ok, this silly
[07:14] <davyd> one breezy machine has a working Tomboy
[07:14] <davyd> one does not
[07:14] <mahmoud> ogra, because the kernel has to be patched to support the module
[07:15] <ogra> mahmoud, ah, ok... thats sad
[07:15] <schweeb> davyd: blame tseng
[07:15] <davyd> schweeb: can do... it feels like it must be a missing dependancy
[07:15] <davyd> it appears to be looking for dbus
[07:15] <schweeb> hehe, most likely
[07:16] <schweeb> install libdbus-cil and libdbus-1-cil and see if that fixes it
[07:16] <davyd> I have libdbus-1-cil
[07:16] <davyd> neither machine has libdbus-cil
[07:16] <mahmoud> guys, if you can't help me , do you have any idea where I should ask?
[07:16] <davyd> also, why does restricted come up with MD5Sum mismatch?
[07:17] <davyd> that sounds... unpleasant
[07:17] <schweeb> some of the sources were messed up a couple weeks ago I guess
[07:18] <\sh> mahmoud: take a vanilla kernel and compile it from hand
[07:18] <\sh> s/from/by/
[07:18] <mdz> mahmoud: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/supportoptions/
[07:19] <mahmoud> \sh, I'm using debian kernel source packages, so do you mean i should try a kernel.org one instead?
[07:19] <mdz> mahmoud: if you're using debian kernel source packages, then a Debian support channel would be the place to ask
[07:21] <mahmoud> ok, thanks
[07:25] <davyd> is the synaptics driver meant to do all of the scroll region jazz automatically?
[07:25] <davyd> or do I need to turn that on?
[07:25] <Lathiat> iirc there are options for it
[07:25] <Lathiat> assuming your pad is actuallya synaptics
[07:26] <kiko> yeah
[07:26] <Lathiat> and not an alps
[07:26] <Lathiat> theres some tool for configuring it on the fly if you have shm config on 
[07:26] <davyd> it appeared to load the synaptics driver
[07:26] <Nafallo> it does that automatically yes.
[07:26] <Nafallo> atleast wfm ;-)
[07:28] <davyd> I'll spend more time on that in a bit
[07:28] <davyd> I wanted to get this machine suspending with the atheros driver
[07:30] <davyd> I think it is an Alps touchpad
[07:30] <davyd> I see something in dmesg about it
[07:31] <Lathiat> ahh,your options are limited then
[07:33] <Lathiat> Is someone able to approve a non-member post by trs80@ucc.asn.au to ubuntu-users ?
[07:33] <Lathiat> jdub ?
[06:49] <thierry> mmmm.... can't even install the daily build of breezy...
[06:49] <Kamion> thierry: that's unsurprising
[06:49] <Kamion> daily builds are often uninstallable
[06:50] <thierry> is colony one possible to install?
[06:50] <Kamion> should be, that's the point of it
[06:50] <Kamion> thierry: what went wrong with the daily build?
[06:50] <thierry> k thanks
[06:50] <thierry> Kamion, well it didn't recognize any ethernet card and it didn't wanted to partition anything...
[06:51] <ogra> hey azeem 
[06:52] <ogra> azeem, did you pick up mako ? he didnt know if he would spend this week here or at your place....
[06:54] <carstenh> yesterday, he was at the linuxtag in karlsruhe/germany
[06:54] <ogra> carstenh, yes, i know....
[06:55] <carstenh> ah, now i understand your question :)
[06:55] <ogra> :)
[06:57] <mdke> is anyone familiar with smeg? seems the version on the website for hoary is not compatible with hoary's python-xdg
[06:58] <Lathiat> iirc you needed a new xdg package too
[06:58] <Lathiat> ask amaranth, he wrote it i think
[06:58] <mdke> yes he did
[06:58] <mdke> but he's not here
[06:58] <Lathiat> ah
[06:58] <Lathiat> yeh iirc he had an xdg package 
[06:59] <mdke> ok yeah i see it now
[07:00] <mdke> thanks Lathiat 
[07:01] <Kamion> thierry: oh, the installer initrds haven't been byhanded, that explains that
[07:01] <Kamion> thierry: (don't worry if that made no sense)
[07:33] <bddebian> Kamion / sivang: We actually have a live-cd !! :-)
[07:46] <Kamion> ah, there are the instructions
[07:50] <Kamion> ogra: ?
[07:51] <ogra> Kamion, i just cant belive that there are things you have to look up about d-i
[07:51] <Kamion> ogra: the archive side
[07:51] <ogra> ah, ok :)
[07:56] <Kamion> elmo: I've byhanded debian-installer_20050317ubuntu{6,7} so that I can build working CDs with 2.6.12 (but not the dailies, and I haven't removed the old installer-* dirs because doing 'sudo -u katie rm -rf blah' scares me)
[07:56] <Kamion> elmo: I used the old d-i-images instructions, updated to breezy
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: ping?
[10:00] <bddebian> mdz: Does discover use /proc ?
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: pong
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: just send you a mail 
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: I am having problems merging daf's archive as well, and wanted to see if you had the same trouble
[10:03] <mdz> but I think daf and I just figured out that problem
[10:03] <mvo> mdz: I merged apt--mvo--0 into apt--main--0 without problems
[10:03] <mdz> mvo: yes, that is very strange
[10:03] <mvo> mdz: do you use the same version of baz than I do? 1.4.2?
[10:04] <mdz> mvo: yes
[10:04] <mdz> latest breezy
[10:04] <mvo> yes, same here
[10:04] <mvo> odd ...
[10:05] <mvo> is your version of apt--main--0 patch-92 too? and apt--mvo--0 at patch-32?
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: your mirror only has patch-30
[10:05] <mdz> heh, both this problem and the one with daf were the result of outdated mirrors apparently :-)
[10:06] <mvo> I did a archive-mirror
[10:07] <mvo> and it tells me there is nothing to mirror (/me checks again)
[10:07] <mdz> I'll try again
[10:07] <mvo> there is a patch-32 dir on p.u.c:~/mvo/arch/ubuntu
[10:07] <mvo> all is very odd ...
[10:08] <mdz> mvo: works now
[10:10] <mdz> zsh: segmentation fault  baz merge apt--main--0
[10:11] <mdz> lifeless: ^^
[10:13] <hub> daniels: you blog software is over buggy
[10:13] <daniels> hub: no, planet is crap
[10:14] <daniels> hub: my articles all have the same publication date as they did to begin with
[10:14] <daniels> hub: keybuk removed the pubDate checking on his branch because people kept screwing up their pubDates
[10:14] <daniels> hub: notice how p.fd.o isn't affected
[10:15] <hub> then it planet ubuntu that is crap ?
[10:15] <Yann2> daniel > I'm just coding a planet for ubuntu-fr
[10:15] <Yann2> might it interest you?
[10:16] <daniels> hub: it's scott's branch of planet (which is used on p.d.o and p.u.c) which is broken
[10:16] <Yann2> it's based on dotclear ( a very well known french blog system) and magpie
[10:16] <daniels> Yann2: not really.  i only really maintain one planet (p.fd.o), and that works fine.
[10:16] <Yann2> ok :)
[10:16] <hub> Yann2: oh no
[10:17] <hub> Yann2: pla.nit.ca has lot for fix because it i
[10:17] <hub> use magpie
[10:17] <Yann2> magpie seems to work quite fine
[10:17] <mdz> mvo: works now
[10:17] <hub> Yann2: magpie has issues with dotclear :-)
[10:17] <Yann2> really? :|
[10:18] <Yann2> can't be, I already saw a rss reader for dotclear using magpie
[10:18] <Yann2> seemed to work good
[10:18] <Yann2> well, I'll see ^^
[10:18] <Yann2> began this afternoon, should be ready tomorrow =)
[10:19] <Yann2> hub > wait wait wait you already did a planet with dotclear?
[10:19] <daniels> Keybuk: fix planet, dude
[10:19] <Keybuk> daniels: fuck off
[10:19] <bddebian> Keybuk!
[10:20] <hub> Yann2: no. my boss did a planet in PHP using magpie, and I use dotclear for my blog and that caused a lot of problems
[10:20] <hub> Yann2: http://pla.nit.ca/
[10:21] <Yann2> what kind of pbs?
[10:21] <mehrfachstecker> hi
[10:21] <bddebian> Hello mehrfachstecker 
[10:21] <mehrfachstecker> does anybody know what the format of the initrd is in hoary?
[10:21] <Keybuk> daniels: get Jeff to fix it
[10:21] <mehrfachstecker> hi bddebian
[10:22] <daniels> Keybuk: i thought his branch was dead?
[10:23] <Keybuk> daniels: my branch is dead too
[10:24] <daniels> Keybuk: bonus
[10:24] <littlepaul> mehrfachstecker, it is cramfs http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-21104.html
[10:24] <Keybuk> daniels: I don't run a Planet, so have no use for the code
[10:25] <mehrfachstecker> thank in advance
[10:26] <mdz> mvo: why did your tree have a modified po/he.po?
[10:26] <mdz> mvo: it conflicts with the one in bubulle's tree
[10:26] <daniels> Keybuk: any idea if anyone else has taken up a branch?
[10:27] <Keybuk> none
[10:27] <daniels> 'kay
[10:28] <mvo> mdz: I didn't modifiy that he.po file deliberately. please just undo it
[10:28] <mvo> mdz: good to hear that it works now
[10:28] <mdz> mvo: 0.6.38ubuntu1 uploaded
[10:30] <StylusEater> hello
[10:30] <StylusEater> who can I talk to about helping with "XFCE-buntu??"
[10:31] <mvo> mdz: cool! I'll merge with your trees now
[10:31] <crimsun> StylusEater: me.
[10:31] <mdz> mvo: I have merged your tree and daf's into mainline, and am working on merging bubulle's now
[10:31] <StylusEater> crimsun: may I pm you?
[10:31] <mdz> StylusEater: it would be better to discuss it here; there are others who are involved and interested
[10:31] <StylusEater> great
[10:32] <StylusEater> well...where do we start? I don't want to interupt any prior discussions
[10:32] <crimsun> StylusEater: just speak what's on your mind presently
[10:33] <StylusEater> well...let me give you a brief synopsis of who I am first?
[10:33] <tseng> sure, you might want to make yourself a page on the wiki also
[10:33] <StylusEater> my background isn't really programming...I've done a fair share of "web programming," some basic, and some perl and bash scripting...
[10:34] <crimsun> StylusEater: (it'd be more efficient to just add yourself to wiki/MOTUXfce)
[10:34] <StylusEater> k
[10:34] <StylusEater> lemme go check
[10:35] <tseng> yep make a page of YourName, fill out your deails and make a link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUXfce
[10:35] <tseng> that will be very helpful to use if you want to pursue member/maintainership status later
[10:36] <bddebian> It ain't helping me. ;-P
[10:36] <tseng> huh?
[10:36] <ogra> is anything wrong with the archive scripts ? the source of libsigcx's ubuntu1 version is here, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libs/libsigcx/, according to the build logs it was built last week, but doesnt show up in the archive....
[10:40] <StylusEater> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences <-- Ok I went there and I don't see a "sign-up" page
[10:41] <StylusEater> I also tried https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyluEater and was unable to edit the page
[10:41] <bddebian> StylusEater: You have to create an account on Launchpad first
[10:41] <StylusEater> I am looking for that link
[10:41] <mdke> the account can be created at wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:41] <bddebian> It can?
[10:41] <mdke> sure
[10:41] <StylusEater> should be able to
[10:41] <mdke> click login
[10:41] <StylusEater> it's a "wiki"
[10:42] <StylusEater> mdke I did
[10:42] <bddebian> I was never able to without creating my lauchpad account first
[10:42] <mdke> perhaps i'm wrong
[10:43] <mdke> ok StylusEater http://launchpad.ubuntu.com
[10:43] <mdke> will report that as a bug
[10:43] <bddebian> mdke: Well most likely I am incorrect.  I don't know if I have been right yet here :-)
[10:44] <mdke> no i think you're right bddebian 
[10:44] <mdke> just looking now, there is a paragraph on how to sign up, but the dialogue is wrong
[10:44] <StylusEater> yup
[10:44] <StylusEater> it's hard to find how to sign up
[10:44] <StylusEater> there isn't a "sign-up" link on the front page of the wiki
[10:45] <tseng> signing up will get more obvious at some point
[10:45] <tseng> there are plans to continue single sign on to other ubuntu services
[10:45] <mdke> yes
[10:45] <StylusEater> tseng: please don't think I am criticizing just noting
[10:46] <mdke> the wiki thing is a pretty bad hack
[10:46] <mdke> to reconcile the Ubuntu auth with the moin login dialogue
[10:46] <tseng> just saying, it should greatly improve at some point
[10:46] <Simira> for those interested: I will bring some Ubuntu t-shirts to Debconf. More information and price will be on the -user mailinglist as soon as I figured out the price
[10:48] <crimsun> StylusEater: please contact me via email (crimsun at fungus dot sh dot nu), I have family plans this afternoon and have to leave in a few minutes. Thanks for your interest.
[10:49] <mdke> Simira, awesome :)
[10:49] <mdke> Simira, do you ship them at all?
[10:49] <StylusEater> crimsun: what would you like me to say?
[10:50] <Simira> mdke: it's coming... we've ordered 250 for a start. There will be a webshop in time...
[10:50] <mdke> fantastic
[10:50] <bddebian> Bah, why go to Debconf when there seems to be such tension with Debian? :-)
[10:50] <Simira> I'll ship to Europe only, probably
[10:50] <crimsun> StylusEater: any ideas you have regarding it from the bottom up
[10:51] <StylusEater> okie doke
[10:51] <mdke> Simira, that's cool, i am in europe :D
[10:51] <Simira> bddebian: there are reasons for and against... I've been encouraged to ignore the conflict
[10:51] <mdke> i think that is the best approach
[10:52] <mdke> love heals any wounds
[10:52] <crimsun> StylusEater: for instance, live cd only or install? what sort of infrastructure?
[10:52] <bddebian> Aye, I was being somewhat fecisous
[10:52] <bddebian> whoops, didn't spell that right
[10:52] <crimsun> StylusEater: (do we go minimal or install most of ubuntu's base so that things like automounting removable devices works?)
[10:52] <mdke> where is this debconf?
[10:53] <ogra> mdke, helsinki
[10:54] <daniels> PITTI
[10:54] <crimsun> StylusEater: cya 'round.
[10:54] <mdke> ogra, ah nice
[10:55] <daniels> dear martin,
[10:55] <daniels> please don't upload a new version of a library package that has an incompatible abi
[10:55] <ogra> what did he break ?
[10:55] <daniels> especially if I'm the one that gets to clean up after it
[10:55] <daniels> cheers,
[10:55] <daniels> daniels
[10:56] <bddebian> So is #ubuntu-love only active on "love days" ?
[10:57] <tseng> ogra: dbus 0.34
[10:57] <ogra> how did debian Bug#315891 end up in my mailbox ?? strange things happen...
[10:57] <ogra> tseng, ah
[10:59] <ogra> gah, why does the debian bugtracking system send BCC mails.... grr
[11:02] <StylusEater> crimsun: tata for now
[11:18] <StylusEater> dohh...what was crimsun's e-mail addy again?
[11:19] <bddebian>  crimsun at fungus dot sh dot nu I think 
[11:21] <lifeless> mdz: backtrace ?
[11:22] <daniels> lifeless: go back to sleep.  freak.
[11:23] <Simira> smurfix: ping
[11:24] <smurfix> Simira: 
[11:24] <lifeless> daniels: touche
[11:24] <StylusEater> cool thx bddebian
[11:24] <StylusEater> I haven't figured out how to "backtrace" in irssi yet
[11:24] <ajmitch> morning
[11:25] <daniels> lifeless: real people aren't awake this early
[11:25] <daniels> lifeless: only cyborgs.  and street sweepers.  and cyborg street sweepers.
[11:25] <lifeless> daniels: which are you ?
[11:25] <daniels> lifeless: jetlagged and still awake
[11:26] <lifeless> ahh
[11:26] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: and some people with Real Jobs
[11:26] <lifeless> HrdwrBoB: no such thing
[11:26] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: if you have time to be on IRC before you go to work, you have time to still be asleep
[11:27] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: I'm making coffee
[11:27] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: i would still be awake if sydney wasn't so stupid
[11:27] <StylusEater> ok...so my page is up
[11:27] <daniels> turns out my flight from bangkok to melbourne went through sydney
[11:27] <daniels> so I'm there for an hour, sweet, get Krispy Kreme
[11:27] <StylusEater> if y'all would like to read it:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StylusEater
[11:27] <daniels> but no, that's on the outer side of immigration
[11:27] <daniels> which I Must Not Pass for various reasons
[11:27] <daniels> so I don't have anything to sugar-rush on for hours
[11:29] <pitti> infinity: already up?
[11:29] <daniels> ah, pitti!
[11:30] <daniels> pitti: please don't upload new versions of dbus which change the abi kthx
[11:30] <pitti> daniels: erm, 0.34 did?
[11:30] <daniels> i believe so, yes
[11:30] <pitti> hrm, sorry...
[11:30] <mdz> lifeless: unreproducible
[11:31] <pitti> daniels: major changes?
[11:31] <daniels> pitti: no worries.  don't think it's caused any actual damage, just surprised me when I saw it.
[11:32] <daniels> pitti: nah, tiny little ABI tweaks.  they rarely make any worthwhile ABI breaks ;)
[11:32] <pitti> ok, good to hear; I just merged the Debian version
[11:32] <mdz> lifeless: I've actually got everything merged now, which is good (for apt) but bad (for reproducing the baz crash)
[11:32] <pitti> daniels: I hope they won't do again by 1.0...
[11:32] <daniels> pitti: they will
[11:37] <mdz> lifeless: I went looking for "baz missing --diffs".  is there something which actually exists which does what I want?
[11:37] <mdke> smurfix, piiing
[11:37] <smurfix> mdke: ?
[11:38] <mdke> smurfix, just to report, we have two bots on #ubuntu-it-meeting
[11:38] <mdke> http://ubuntu-de.org/logs/freenode/2005/06/26/%23ubuntu-it-meeting.html
[11:39] <smurfix> gah. I'll go check
[11:39] <lifeless> mdz: what do you want ?
[11:39] <dholbach> hey!
[11:39] <ogra> mdke, ubuntu-it-meeting ? why dont you just use ubuntu-meeting ?
[11:40] <ogra> hi dholbach 
[11:40] <mdke> ogra, i guess cos it might cause clashes
[11:40] <mdke> -fr has one too
[11:40] <ogra> oh, really ? 
[11:40] <mdke> we have been having lots of meeting recently so we just made a separate chan
[11:41] <mdke> also the language of meeting isn't english, so it might annoy people who idle in that chan
[11:41] <mdke> dunno
[11:43] <ogra> mdke, yes, sounds sane .... i was just wondering... :)
[11:43] <mdke> :)
[11:51] <siretart> argl. sorry, wrong channel
[11:52] <ogra> siretart, probably not ;)
[11:52] <siretart> ;)
[11:55] <mdz> lifeless: I want approximately "show me the diffs for the patches in tree foo which are not in tree bar"
[11:55] <mdz> lifeless: though "show me the diff which would result from this merge" would also suffice
[11:56] <pitti> mdz: merge - diff - undo?
[11:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: baz diff $anothertree or isn't that what you mean?
[11:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: depends; what does that do?
[11:58] <mdz> pitti: yes, that is similar to the functionality I am looking for in a single command
[11:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: I _think_ it does exactly what you want.
[12:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think it does the reverse of what I want, but I can make that work
[12:01] <mdz> hmm
[12:01] <mdz> baz diff <tree foo> from within tree bar gives me something which is sort of the reverse of what I want
[12:01] <mdz> baz diff <tree bar> from tree foo blows up
[12:01] <mdz>     arch_valid_package_name (name, arch_maybe_archive, arch_req_package, 1)
[12:01] <mdz> baz: uncaught exception: -1:(exiting on botched invariant)
[12:01] <mdz>   please report this as a bug to bazaar@lists.canonical.com