[12:02] <lifeless> mdz: hmm
[12:03] <lifeless> baz diff $other-tree gives you the manner in which this tree has diverged from the last merge of the two
[12:03] <lifeless> so get bar, diff foo should work
[12:03] <lifeless> what exact command line are you using ?
[12:04] <Mez> mako: ping
[12:04] <Mithrandir> lifeless: I suspect he's doing baz diff /home/mdz/whatever.
[12:05] <lifeless> Mithrandir: so do I ;0
[12:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: I was doing baz diff fully@qualified/branch--name
[12:14] <mdz> which works in one direction and blows up in the other
[12:14] <lifeless> mdz: --version on there ?
[12:14] <mdz> yes
[12:15] <lifeless> mdz: mmmm, does baz missing fully@qualified/branch--name from there show the base-0 ?
[12:15] <mdz> mizar:[~/src/deb/mine/arch/apt/ubuntu]  baz diff michael.vogt@ubuntu.com--2005/apt--ubuntu--0
[12:15] <lifeless> i.e. has it never been merged ?
[12:15] <mdz> ^^ works
[12:15] <mdz> mizar:[~/src/deb/mine/arch/apt/ubuntu]  cd ../mvo-ubuntu mizar:[...eb/mine/arch/apt/mvo-ubuntu]  baz diff apt@packages.debian.org/apt--ubuntu--0
[12:15] <mdz> ^^ doesn't
[12:16] <mdz> lifeless: hmm, good question
[12:16] <mdz> I wonder whether mvo created his ubuntu branch based on main, rather than based on my ubuntu branch
[12:16] <mdz> baz missing does show the base-0
[12:16] <lifeless> if so, congrats, thats a bug
[12:16] <lifeless> ok, nice find three.
[12:16] <mdz> in both cases
[12:16] <lifeless> so
[12:17] <lifeless> enough info gathering
[12:17] <lifeless> there are three different scenarios here
[12:17] <lifeless> the actual content of the patches is usually not interesting : its the aggregate *without merges from you* that is interesting.
[12:17] <mdz> the question I'm trying to answer in this instance is "what sort of stuff has he got in this branch?"
[12:17] <lifeless> right.
[12:18] <lifeless> the way I would usually answer that is to merge his branch, and then run diff
[12:18] <lifeless> because that gets rid of noise created by merges from mutual peers even if he hasn't merged from yuu
[12:18] <mdz> yes, I've done that in the past
[12:18] <Mithrandir> I think diff $branch should do the same thing as merge + diff.
[12:18] <mdz> and I would very much like to be able to do it a) in one step, b) without modifying my working directory (or even having one at all)
[12:19] <lifeless> if you want to see a plain rollup of his patches, you can do this in one step:
[12:19] <mdz> baz diff <rev> <rev> would be eawesome
[12:19] <lifeless> baz delta --diffs <rev> <rev>
[12:19] <mdz> but that's not the same; that's just a straight "how is this different from that", isn't it?
[12:19] <lifeless> right
[12:20] <lifeless> baz diff is just a straight how is this different from that - with a hueristic on what to call 'this'
[12:20] <mdz> "dump all the diffs from the revisions in `baz missing <foo>`" is approximately the right semantic
[12:20] <lifeless> so - 
[12:20] <mdz> this ties into my earlier craving for a way to do get-changeset && show-changeset --diffs in one step
[12:20] <lifeless> perhaps baz delta --diffs $(baz missing foo | head -n1) $(baz missing foo | tail -n 1)
[12:21] <mdz> that sounds about right
[12:21] <lifeless> show-changeset needs to take a revision and get it out for you - absolutely agree
[12:21] <mdz> I'm not sure whether I would prefer to have the diffs rolled up or separate
[12:21] <mdz> probably rolled up most of the time
[12:21] <lifeless> 'baz mdz foo' ;0
[12:22] <Mithrandir> lifeless: no, that won't work in all cases, since you might have done a sync-tree from a tla user and so not have all your own (or somebody elses) patches.
[12:22] <Mithrandir> which is kinda funky.
[12:23] <lifeless> Mithrandir: this is why merge is the right way
[12:23] <Mithrandir> lifeless: yup
[12:23] <lifeless> but merge is different because it involves resolving conflicts etc
[12:23] <Mithrandir> lifeless: so I think diff $tree should be merge + diff the trees.
[12:24] <mdz> lifeless++
[12:26] <lifeless> mmm
[12:26] <lifeless> diff tree says 'how is my tree different to that tree'
[12:27] <lifeless> 'diff' on its own says 'how is my tree different to what I checked out'
[12:27] <lifeless> I don't think adding merge to 'diff' is right from a UI or behavioural point of view
[12:28] <lifeless> merge requires human intervention for starters
[12:28] <lifeless> that said, there should be something fairly simple to do what you want
[12:29] <lifeless> mdz: so what about merge + diff, or get + diff frustrates ?
[12:29] <lifeless> i.e. what do I need to shave off to make it a reasonable answer ?
[12:34] <mdz> lifeless: merge+diff, for one, gives me conflicts
[12:34] <lifeless> thats what I mean by human intervention
[12:35] <lifeless> I guess the question I'm asking is :
[12:35] <mdz> both merge+diff and get+diff require that I store some stuff on disk just for the purpose of asking the question, and then clean it up afterward
[12:35] <lifeless> 'Do you want to see what they have put in their branch', or 'Do you want to see what you would be merging'
[12:35] <mdz> I want to be able to ask both of those questions
[12:36] <lifeless> from your working tree.
[12:36] <mdz> the latter makes sense in a working tree
[12:36] <mdz> the former seems like a reasonable question to ask without having a working tree
[12:36] <mdz> mako: around?
[12:41] <carstenh>  I received a approval from google for my application ("Ubuntu Firewall Managing Tool"). do you already know who will be my mentor or whom i should contact?
[12:42] <mdz> carstenh: we'll contact you via email soon
[12:42] <mdz> after the weekend
[12:42] <carstenh> mdz: ok, thanks :)
[12:42] <mdz> carstenh: congratulations and welcome :-)
[12:42] <ogra> carstenh, hey, you are in trier ?
[12:42] <carstenh> thanks
[12:42] <carstenh> ogra: yes
[12:42] <dholbach> carstenh: HEY!
[12:42] <dholbach> :)
[12:43] <carstenh> ogra: and you are from?
[12:43] <dholbach> i'm from trier!
[12:43] <ogra> greets even
[12:43] <dholbach> (originally)
[12:43] <dholbach> where do you live there?
[12:43] <dholbach> the world is SO small :)
[12:43] <carstenh> dholbach: martinskloster, i study at the university of applied science
[12:43] <dholbach> ROCK cool :)
[12:43] <carstenh> yes, it is :)
[12:43] <dholbach> this is funny :)
[12:44] <carstenh> ogra: where is blankenheim?
[12:44] <dholbach> "in der eifel" :)
[12:44] <ogra> beginning of eifel... 
[12:44] <carstenh> ah, not far away :)
[12:44] <ogra> yeps :)
[12:44] <ogra> carstenh, nice to have you aboard :)
[12:45] <dholbach> absolutely
[12:45] <pitti> night guys
[12:45] <ogra> night pitti 
[12:46] <carstenh> ogra: dholbach: were anyone of you at the ksp yesterday?
[12:47] <ogra> carstenh, which one ?
[12:47] <carstenh> linuxtag, organized by weasel
[12:48] <ogra> nope, i wasnt at linuxtag
[12:49] <carstenh> this was my  my first lt this year :)
[12:49] <dholbach> me neither
[12:49] <ogra> i should probably have been there
[12:50] <mdke> question: is kubuntu and ubuntu intended to be installable on the same system with no issues?
[12:50] <mdke> is/are
[12:50] <ogra> mdke, only space issues
[12:51] <mdke> ogra, so its worth filing bugs when they don't live happily as a family?
[12:51] <ogra> mdke, yeps... they should play nicely together
[12:51] <mdke> ok
[12:51] <mdke> in bugzilla?
[12:52] <mdke> kubuntu is handled in bugzilla too still?
[12:52] <ogra> mdke, if you wanna file against a -desktop metapackage....
[12:52] <mdke> yeah probably a good idea
[12:53] <mdke> i guess most of the issues are well known
[12:53] <carstenh> does kubuntu count as an extra debian derivat?
[12:53] <carstenh> (is was not on makos list)
[12:53] <ogra> carstenh, rather as a ubuntu derivative
[12:53] <carstenh> ah, ok.
[12:54] <mdke> hmm
[12:54] <ogra> mdke, ?
[12:54] <mdke> i've heard lots of people report issues with their .ICEauthority file when running both kde and gnome, but a search in bugzilla for ICEauthority shows nothing
[12:55] <ogra> mdke, but ts a known issue that kde changes permissions of that file
[12:56] <ogra> i had such a case today in #ubuntu-de
[12:56] <mdke> yeah well known
[12:57] <mdke> strange that there is no bug open on it
[12:57] <ogra> yep
[12:58] <ogra> but i guess you had to change quite essential bits in KDE to make it work right
[12:58] <Seveas> ah, so that is it!
[12:58] <Seveas> Does that cause gnome to freeze when trying to log in?
[12:58] <mdke> yeah you can't log in
[12:59] <ogra> Seveas, exactly
[12:59] <Seveas> I've seen a ZILLION cases of that on #ubuntu
[12:59] <mdke> yep
[12:59] <ogra> yep
[12:59] <mdke> answer is to delete the file
[12:59] <ogra> lol
[12:59] <Seveas> Never knew what it was :)
[12:59] <robitaille> mdke: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2053  (maybe?)
[12:59] <Seveas> Another thing to add to my FAQ database :)
[12:59] <mdke> robitaille, saw that yeah but i think it is dated now, kde IS supported
[01:00] <ogra> hmm, robitaille ....
[01:00] <mdke> the bug was closed due to kde not being supported
[01:00] <mdke> maybe it could be reopened, or a new bug filed
[01:00] <robitaille> yes, that old bug was pre-kubuntu
[01:01] <ogra> robitaille, wouldnt you like to take a central role in our upcoming bugday ? you are really the best bugzilla guy i know outside the main team :) 
[01:01] <mdke> oooh
[01:01] <mdke> Burgundavia will be upset
[01:01] <mdke> :)
[01:01] <robitaille> ogra:  when is it going to be?
[01:01] <ogra> heh, they can share the load mdke :)
[01:01] <mdke> yup
[01:01] <ogra> robitaille, we planned it for the 29th
[01:02] <robitaille> but it is true I have done little bit less of bugzilla right when Burgundavia started doing more. Strange timing :)
[01:02] <ogra> :)
[01:02] <ogra> smells like a bugzilla team :)
[01:03] <robitaille> ogra:  but sure, I can help.  Not sure I would qualify it as a "central role" since most of that day I'll be at work, but I can help
[01:03] <ogra> robitaille, think about it... i'll write a cross post announcement tomorrow ...
[01:06] <mdke> mdz, do you think it is worth reopening #2053? or opening a new bug? probably hundreds have that error
[01:13] <karlheg> Why doesn't highlight then middle-click to paste work right anymore?  I've used the X Window System since 1995, and it has always worked until recently.  Firefox highlight to emacs middle click is not doing what it should.  Any ideas?
[01:13] <karlheg> I wish that Firefox had the middle-click paste of a URL opens a tab and gets the page like it used to also.
[01:14] <karlheg> And it really ought to have the long-standard C-a, C-e, C-k bindings in text fields too.
[01:15] <tseng> support questions are in #ubuntu
[01:15] <lsuactiafner> karlheg : press shift while you paste
[01:15] <tseng> or even better, to firefox
[01:15] <karlheg> Ah.  I have to press a key now?
[01:16] <karlheg> tseng, Sorry... I viewed it as a devel question since it used to Just Work but something has changed.
[01:16] <mdke> highlight middle click works here
[01:16] <mdke> this is def. a #ubuntu question imo
[01:16] <tseng> its a devel question if you want to talk about fixing a bug, basically
[01:16] <tseng> it not really a bug at all, it "works as designed"
[01:17] <tseng> and is not specific to ubuntu
[01:17] <karlheg> I can't get it to work unless I use C-c in Firefox, then middle-click in Emacs.
[01:17] <karlheg> Annoying itch, but livable for now.
[01:18] <lsuactiafner> highlight middle also works here.
[01:19] <mdke> yep
[01:20] <sladen> karlheg: we disabled the middle-click paste in the main window.  It confused people who didn't expect.  You can enable it by typing 'about:config' in the browser URL bar and searching for 'middle'
[01:20] <karlheg> tseng, It's "broken as designed".  You are supposed to be able to highlight, then middle-click to paste anywhere and everywhere in X.
[01:21] <karlheg> It's annoying enough to have to use CUA bindings everywhere, and then they insist I push C-c to get a pasteable copy.
[01:21] <mdke> karlheg, two people have told you that it works for them
[01:22] <ogra> karlheg, Apache/2.1.3 (Ubuntu) Server at people.ubuntu.com Port 80
[01:22] <ogra> karlheg, just pasted as you described
[01:22] <ogra> mark and middle click
[01:22] <mdke> three people
[01:22] <karlheg> So I guess if I really want to change that I have to develop a key-mapping library everything can use or something... so not every program has to implment re-bindable keymaps to support both traditional and CUA bindings.
[01:23] <karlheg> Huh.  Peerhaps it's an emacs setting then.
[01:23] <karlheg> I'll check that.
[01:24] <ogra> might be, i'm a vim user
[01:25] <karlheg> sladen, ! Thank you.  Is that a FAQ?  It really ought to be an option in the main configuration dialog.
[01:26] <ajmitch> perhaps it it an issue as to which clipboard selection is being used, too
[01:28] <karlheg> I just highlighted from xchat and pasted with middle click to emacs.  It's some kind of interaction between the URL location bar in Firefox and Emacs that's not right.
[01:29] <karlheg> Perhaps it's a Firefox setting or missed line in it's programming?  I don't know enough about X programming to know what the cause could be.  Enough said; no bug; I'll quit flooding.
[01:31] <sladen> karlheg: if you know enough to miss it, you know enough to use about:config
[01:32] <sladen> karlheg: you can paste in the URL bar with middle-click.  that works as expected.
[01:32] <karlheg> sladen, I've never heard of about:config until just now.
[01:32] <karlheg> But the URL bar already has text in it.
[01:32] <sladen> karlheg: it's the middle-pasteing in the middle a window that confuses people.  Especially when they use my thinkpad and can't tell what caused the page to "randomly" change
[01:33] <sladen> karlheg: I agree, I use the feature all the time
[01:33] <sladen> precisely because the URL bar has text in it
[01:33] <karlheg> sladen, We should wishlist that it ought to be a visible configuration option in the main preferences dialogs.
[01:33] <sladen> karlheg: go for it
[01:34] <karlheg> Where should I file that?  Firefox, or Ubuntu?
[01:34] <ogra> Firetech, 
[01:34] <ogra> err firefox
[01:34] <sladen> karlheg: Ubuntu (we turned it off from the default) IdeasPool on the wiki
[01:34] <ogra> sladen, for a config option ?
[01:34] <karlheg> I suppose Firefox, unless the Ubuntu maintainer knows the internals well enough and can code it, otherwise, he'll just proxy the bug rep.  I may as well save him some work.
[01:35] <sladen> karlheg/ogra: good point
[01:35] <karlheg> sladen, Off by default is Ok, it's that it's not in preferences.  Adding it to that will require coding.
[01:36] <karlheg> There's a 'clipboard.autocopy' option that's set to 'true' by default.  No matter what it's setting, Firefox highlight in page does not middle-click paste in Emacs.
[01:37] <karlheg> *sigh*
[01:37] <karlheg> All of the other apps on my desktop work as I would expect, so it's something to do with how Firefox is programmed or configured.
[01:38] <ogra> karlheg, but since firefox highlight->middleclick paste works everywhere else i'd rather call it an emacs bug
[01:38] <karlheg> 26-Jun-2005 23:19  273
[01:38] <karlheg> Ah.  I can highlight/paste from Firefox to xchat.
[01:38] <karlheg> It's something to do with how they interact.  I'll not file a bug until I understand X clipboard more.
[01:39] <karlheg> Maybe there's some reason it's supposed to work the way it does?
[01:44] <karlheg> Wow.  I just restarted Firefox, and now it works right.  I did not change the 'clipboard.autocopy' setting; I toggled it, but then back to default.
[01:44] <karlheg> I give up.
[01:44] <karlheg> You win, Firefox.
[01:54] <mdz> mdke: if the problem still exists, yes
[01:56] <mdke> mdz, thanks. I'm not an expert because I haven't tested it, but we get loads of people on the mailing lists and irc about that problem, which it seems isn't caused by k3b only, but kde in general
[01:56] <mdz> mdke: yes, I expect it affects most any KDE program run with root privileges and HOME still set to the user's home directory
[01:57] <ogra> mdz, this prob will exist eternally unless KDE fixes its handling of ICEAuthority
[01:57] <ogra> AndyFitz !!
[01:57] <mdz> ogra: we are arguably doing the wrong thing by running it with this environment, but it could be more robust, certainly
[01:57] <jp> I just restarted my pc, and there was a partition verification, now when I go to home/jp/x  there's not the most important stuff for me, I lost 500 mbs of pics and some videos cool im happy :)
[01:58] <mdke> mdz, so you think that bug or new bug?
[01:58] <mdz> mdke: might as well reuse the bug
[01:58] <ogra> a evil hack would be to change the permissions before/during login...
[01:58] <stuNNed> can i ask ques about applying a patch?
[01:58] <jp> I wanna cry 
[01:58] <ogra> stuNNed, sure
[01:58] <mdz> ogra: better would be to fix it so that the ownership is preserved
[01:58] <ogra> mdz, yep
[01:59] <stuNNed> ogra: so i can 'apt-get source package' in a dir, then tar zxvf original_package, cd
[01:59] <ogra> mdz, but that would require a lot of KDE changes i guess
[01:59] <stuNNed>                  to that dir, apply a patch, then run 'dpkg-buildpackage' within that dir and
[01:59] <stuNNed>                  all is well and dandy?
[01:59] <mdke> jp, sorry to hear that, if you try #ubuntu they might be able to help you with data recovery
[01:59] <stuNNed> dang sorry lol
[01:59] <mdz> ogra: I wouldn't expect so, but I haven't looked
[01:59] <jp> thanks mdke ! i go to there now :)
[01:59] <mdke> mdz, actually I can't reopen that bug
[01:59] <mdke> guess permissions
[01:59] <ogra> mdz, i'm no KDE expert either, but thats the way i know KDE to work
[02:00] <mdz> mdke: have you read and understood the bug handling guidelines in HelpingWithBugs?
[02:00] <stuNNed> ogra: sorry, my ques is i can 'apt-get source package' then 'tar zxvf orig_package', apply a patch, then from within that dir run dpkg-buildpackage and all is well and dandy?
[02:00] <mdke> mdz, no
[02:00] <mdz> mdke: if you would, I'd be delighted to give you editbugs
[02:01] <mdke> mdz, i will do so and let you know when I do
[02:01] <ogra> stuNNed, something like that, yes... you can omit the tar step
[02:01] <mdke> in the meantime perhaps someone else can reopen #2053
[02:02] <AndyFitz> g'day ogra
[02:02] <ogra> stuNNed, apt-get source will unpack everything for you...
[02:02] <mdke> --> bed
[02:02] <ogra> AndyFitz, we need to talk abuout icons :)
[02:02] <ogra> AndyFitz, i'm supposed to package them :)
[02:04] <stuNNed> ogra: trying the publish to calendar patch, see if it works against current Hoary evo, latest, the patch applied cleanly
[02:04] <AndyFitz> ogra, excellent !!! :D
[02:04] <ogra> stuNNed, see the PbuilderHowto on the wiki, if you can build it there, itsfine
[02:05] <stuNNed> ok thanks, ogra 
[02:11] <jp> I want to die I lost the most important stuff for me, only for restart by power button, that never happened to me on windows xp, that's why I did it on linux, trsting on linux
[02:11] <jp> i'm just crying
[02:12] <carstenh> jp: which filesystem do you use
[02:12] <jp> carstenh etx3 dood
[02:12] <jp> ext3 sorry
[02:12] <carstenh> hmm, no undelete :(
[02:12] <jp> yep
[02:12] <ogra> but probably a lost&found
[02:12] <jp> what filesystem is the most secure?
[02:12] <jp> reiser?
[02:13] <ogra> nope
[02:13] <jp> no ogra jp@shawn:/lost+found $ du -sh >> 48K     . >> jp@shawn:/lost+found 
[02:13] <ogra> sad
[02:13] <jp> ogra nope <- so what? ext3?
[02:14] <carstenh> jp: did you already fsck it?
[02:14] <jp> carstenh yep, it's clean
[02:14] <ogra> ext2/3 ist the most reliable/mature ... 
[02:14] <carstenh> jp: all are more secure than reisser
[02:14] <jp> ops :)
[02:14] <carstenh> s/ss/s/
[02:15] <ogra> carstenh, s/s/ss ;)
[02:15] <ogra> (only for germans)
[02:15] <carstenh> ogra: substitute ss with s
[02:15] <jp> huh im chilean
[02:15] <ogra> carstenh, yes, but he is very "reisserisch" about it :)
[02:15] <ogra> (i mean has reiser)
[02:15] <carstenh> ogra: ah, ok. didn't get it the first time
[02:16] <ogra> s/has/hans
[02:16] <carstenh> .oO(reisswolf-fs)
[02:16] <ogra> hehe
[02:16] <ogra> jp, that was a german joke, sorry, i can understand youre not in a joking mood...
[02:17] <jp> oh ok
[02:23] <ogra> jp, this is a rather advanced task but you could try this one http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Ext2fs-Undeletion.html
[02:23] <ogra> oh
[02:24] <Mez> ogra: ping
[02:25] <ogra> Mez, poooong
[02:25] <Mez> Just as an FYI - I'm rebuilding the latest version of k3b for breezy
[02:25] <Mez> 0.12-1ubuntu1
[02:25] <Mez> (or at leat it will be when it's finsihed building and being fixed etc
[02:25] <ogra> Mez, nice, coordinate with Riddell 
[02:25] <Mez> Already am ogra ;)
[02:26] <Mez> one of the conditions of my ubuntu membership was to keep you in the loop with the KDE stuff :P
[02:26] <ogra> great :)
[02:26] <Mez> hence why I'm telling you :P
[02:26] <Mez> (plus i may need your help in a mo)
[02:27] <Mez> I added libxi to the Build-Depends as it was moaning that ld -lXi wasnt working... 
[02:28] <Mez> libxi-dev * 
[02:28] <ogra> ok
[02:28] <dholbach> i'll call it the day
[02:28] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[02:28] <tseng> cya dholbach 
[02:28] <ogra> night dholbach 
[02:28] <stuNNed> ogra: so i'm assuming with pbuilder i want to set up a chroot'd breezy?
[02:29] <dholbach> stuNNed: it does it for you
[02:29] <Mez> stuNNed, that's what I ahev
[02:29] <dholbach> stuNNed: pbuilder is LOVE
[02:29] <ogra> stuNNed, just follow the howto
[02:29] <Mez> lol :D yeah follow the howto
[02:29] <Mez> It's confusing as hell iof uyou're using 2 differnt base tgz's though
[02:30] <ogra> Mez, why would you use two different base tgz's ?
[02:30] <ogra> Mez, we only compile for breezy
[02:30] <Mez> ogra - one for breezy, one for backports ;)_
[02:31] <ogra> ah
[02:31] <stuNNed> ogra: yeah cuz even though the patch to publish calendar applied cleanly to hoary evo it crashes, ack
[02:31] <bob2___> why would the upstream tarball differ?
[02:31] <Mez> ogra - sdo we wnat the new HAL stuff in k3b or not ?
[02:31] <tseng> dude
[02:31] <tseng>        --basetgz [basetgz-location] 
[02:31] <tseng>               Specifies the location of base.tgz
[02:31] <bob2> ah
[02:31] <Mez> yeah tseng... I know
[02:31] <Mez> b ut I cant be arse dto type that everytime where i cna type
[02:32] <ogra> Mez, what does Riddell say ? 
[02:32] <Mez> buildbreezy
[02:32] <tseng> so make an alias
[02:32] <Mez> or buildhaory
[02:32] <Mez> and it'll change the pbuilder
[02:32] <Mez> he's AFK
[02:32] <Mez> well... asleep
[02:32] <Mez> he mentioned that it was there... didnt say whether to nable it
[02:32] <ogra> Mez, but you really should coordinate with him
[02:32] <Mez> tseng... those are aliases :D
[02:32] <Mez> fair enoug h:D
[02:32] <Mez> I'll ask him when he wakes up then
[02:33] <ogra> Mez, since he is the KDE guy here, i really cant give you a hint on using HAL in KDE...
[02:33] <ogra> since i dont know the status of HAL in KDE :)
[02:34] <Mez> hmm
[02:34] <Mez> If I remember what he said propelry... they're trying to shove it into 3.5 properly...
[02:34] <Mez> or makling improvements on it
[02:34] <ogra> Mez, you really want to talk to Riddell ... i know HAL support is planned...
[02:34] <Mez> I was too busy laughing at how scared he loked
[02:35] <Mez> lol ... I swear he left bricks all over the stage :D
[02:36] <Mez> is ffmpeg a Restricted format?
[02:37] <ogra> nope
[02:37] <ogra> (its in uni, not multiverse)
[02:38] <Mez> ah
[02:38] <Mez> FFMpeg decoder plugin (decodes wma and others):
[02:38] <Mez> that would be restricted
[02:39] <ogra> Mez, yep, but its very broken currently, i'm in charge of it, but waiting on a new upstream release
[02:39] <Mez> fair enough
[02:39] <Mez> I'll leave that option OFF :S
[02:40] <Mez> Hmm... riddell's replacement for KControl = sexy
[02:42] <tseng> oh man, planet stoner
[02:42] <tseng> this is the worst flood ive ever seen
[02:42] <Mez> ogra, cna you give me a slap when that's fixed then ?
[02:42] <ogra> Mez, sure
[02:43] <Mez> then cna decide whether to rebuild k3b with it (though i doubt we will)
[02:43] <ogra> Mez, but i can only wait for a version that cmpiles at least with gcc-3.4 ...
[02:43] <Mez> ?
[02:44] <ogra> Mez, the current prob with ffmpeg is, that it doesnt compile with any of the ubuntu provided compilers...
[02:44] <Mez> lol - why not ?
[02:45] <ogra> Mez, ask upstream :)
[02:45] <Mez> I mena what comile errors? (or completely built for random compilers?)
[02:45] <Mez> Is it like redhat brekaing the world?
[02:47] <ogra> yep, something like that
[02:47] <lsuactiafner> while on the topic of wmv.. 64bit ubuntu need a static 32bit binary for wmv files and a normal 64bit binary for other files
[02:47] <Mez> ah I remember redhat breaking the world
[02:47] <Mez> that was fun
[02:48] <lsuactiafner> maybe not static since there are 32bit libs in 64bit ubuntu, but definatly a 32bit binary and yes i did mail the maintainer ect
[02:49] <ogra> anyway, its 3am (nearly) and GF is moaning i should go to bed...
[02:49] <Mez> lol - lucky you ogra
[02:49] <ogra> so night everybody...
[02:49] <Mez> mine noirmally moans around 1sam
[02:49] <Mez> shame she aint really ehre now...
[02:49] <Mez> aint here now really *
[02:49] <ogra> heh
[02:50] <Mez> could do with someone to cuddle up to
[02:53] <karlheg> Why does 'dpkg-source -x' tell me that the .tar file suffix is unrecognized?
[02:53] <karlheg> There's a tar.gz and that's listed in the .dsc.
[02:53] <Mez> karlheg, are you passing it the .dec file?
[02:54] <karlheg> Yes.
[02:54] <karlheg> dpkg-source -x hotplug-light_0.0-1.dsc
[02:54] <karlheg> dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.tar'
[02:54] <Mez> weird
[02:54] <bob2> so, look at the .dsc
[02:55] <bob2> is it a native package with a non-native version?
[02:55] <karlheg> Native; and looking in there was the first thing I did when it did not work.
[02:55] <bob2> er
[02:55] <bob2> that version is non-native
[02:56] <bob2> so, fix the source so it's a .orig.tar.gz + .diff.gz
[02:56] <stuNNed> hmmm so with pbuilder now i can get evo from breezy, patch it, and build it?
[02:57] <karlheg> Huh.  There's no diff.gz listed in the .dsc, and not one on his DL site either.
[02:57] <bob2> yes, of course
[02:57] <karlheg> It certainly is a non-native version number, I see that now that you point it out.
[02:57] <bob2> if you're packaging it, you make the .diff.gz yourself
[02:57] <infinity> bob2 : Erm, but '-x' should only warn, not error.  Making it impossible to UNPACK old broken native/non-native packages is wrong.
[02:57] <bob2> infinity: haven't people been complaining to scott all week a bout that?
[02:57] <karlheg> \infty I agree.
[02:58] <infinity> karlheg : Anyhow, there's nothing stopping you from unpacking it manually.
[02:58] <karlheg> The voices in my head won't let me.  They say it's unclean and sinful.
[02:58] <karlheg> ;-p
[02:58] <bob2> but you do need to fix this
[02:59] <bob2> that package shouldn't be native
[02:59] <infinity> The voices in your head are silly, then.  Since "dpkg-source -x" on a native package is identical to "tar -xzf foo.tar.gx"
[03:00] <karlheg> Ok; will network with maintainer, md.
[03:00] <Mez> infinity, keybuk is probably still drunk from LRL
[03:00] <karlheg> I wonder if this is hotplug-ng or a different thing... (haven't looked yet)
[03:01] <karlheg> Was there discussion wrt hotplug-ng, udev, initramfs, etc that was recorded where I can read it; anyone know off hand, or should I search?
[03:02] <stuNNed> i'm assuming i need to 'pbuilder login' to build breezy builds on hoary system?
[03:03] <Mez> stuNNed, read the howto
[03:04] <Mez> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowtohttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
[03:04] <Mez> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto *
[03:07] <stuNNed> yes but the example there says 'apt-get source bc' which grabs from hoary, is there way to 'apt-get source bc' from breezy?
[03:07] <carstenh> -t
[03:07] <carstenh> night
[03:10] <lifeless> stuNNed: if you have breezy src-deb lines, you can (IIRC) go apt-get source breezy/bc
[03:11] <stuNNed> lifeless: ah ok thanks
[03:11] <stuNNed> doh thanks
[03:12] <Mez> any C++ coders here cna help me out a lil - fix this k3b probelm
[03:13] <lifeless> Mez: whats the problem ?
[03:13] <Mez> can i /query you lifeless?
[03:13] <Mez> there may be a lot f files tuff
[03:13] <Mez> ../../../../plugins/decoder/flac/k3bflacdecoder.cpp: In member function 'virtual QString K3bFLACDecoder::technicalInfo(const QString&) const':
[03:13] <Mez> ../../../../plugins/decoder/flac/k3bflacdecoder.cpp:320: error: request for member 'get_field' in '((K3bFLACDecoder::Private*)((const K3bFLACDecoder*)this)->K3bFLACDecoder::d)->K3bFLACDecoder::Private::comments-> FLAC::Metadata::VorbisComment::get_vendor_string()', which is of non-class type 'const FLAC__byte*'
[03:14] <Mez> is how it's bombing out
[03:15] <Burgundavia> ogra, bugday
[03:15] <Burgundavia> ogra, I can make myself free the whole day if needed
[03:17] <lifeless> Mez: that probably means that someone changed the type of get_vendor_string()'s type
[03:17] <Mez> lifeless... it's a bit confusing
[03:17] <Mez> ifdef FLAC_NEWER_THAN_1_1_1
[03:17] <Mez>       return QString::fromUtf8((char*)d->comments->get_vendor_string());
[03:17] <Mez> #else
[03:17] <Mez>       return QString::fromUtf8(d->comments->get_vendor_string().get_field());
[03:17] <Mez> #endif
[03:17] <lifeless> well there you go
[03:18] <lifeless> you probably have a flac that is newer than 1.1.1
[03:18] <lifeless> but that define isn't set
[03:18] <Mez> I've no idea how to find that
[03:19] <lifeless> check configure ;0
[03:19] <Mez> o ffs
[03:19] <sladen> flac -v
[03:19] <sladen> or `pwd` ...
[03:20] <Mez> yeah breezy uses 1.1.2
[03:22] <Mez> actually it looks like it is getting the newer version of flac... but.... not having it properly
[03:23] <Mez> Changed the signature of FLAC::Metadata::VorbisComment::get_vendor_string() and FLAC::Metadata::VorbisComment::set_vendor_string() to use a UTF-8, NUL-terminated string const FLAC__byte * for the vendor string instead of FLAC::Metadata::VorbisComment::Entry.
[03:23] <Mez> I thik the .get_field is an error
[03:52] <stuNNed> how to apply a .patch to a tar.gz file?
[03:53] <bob2> er
[03:53] <bob2> presumably you want to apply it to the source within, right?
[03:53] <stuNNed> yes
[03:54] <bob2> and the .tar.gz is the .orig.tar.gz, right?
[03:54] <stuNNed> yes
[03:54] <bob2> so include the changes in your .diff.gz
[03:54] <bob2> or use dpatch and put the patch in a seperate file in debian/patches/whater
[03:55] <stuNNed> ok let me try
[03:55] <stuNNed> the 1st method
[04:01] <Mez> so i build one as if i'd just done it manually
[04:01] <Mez> then extract the package and grab the changes from the change file in there
[04:11] <lifeless> hctness
[06:28] <fabbione> morning
[06:30] <Lathiat> "Rebuild for this weeks d-bus API"
[07:47] <pitti> Morning
[07:51] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:52] <pitti> infinity: what's the status of the amd64 buildds?
[07:52] <pitti> infinity: if that is still broken, any chance to do an exceptional binary upload for the amd64 ruby security update?
[07:57] <fabbione> all the amd64 buildd are down?
[07:59] <pitti> fabbione: well, the ruby build killed two of them
[08:00] <fabbione> ah
[08:00] <fabbione> so it was YOU killing the buildd!
[08:00] <fabbione> :P
[08:06] <fabbione> crimsun: ping?
[08:06] <crimsun> fabbione: pong
[08:07] <fabbione> crimsun: how safe is alsa 0.9.0+ that has been pushed to Linus for .13 inclusion?
[08:07] <infinity> pitti : Yeah, If we're going to do a by-hand build, I'd have to do it at home.  I don't feel the urge to kill yet another buildd.
[08:07] <crimsun> fabbione: 1.0.9+?
[08:07] <fabbione> meh yeah
[08:08] <fabbione> that one
[08:08] <crimsun> fabbione: do you have link to the log handy?
[08:09] <fabbione>   ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/kernel-patches/alsa-git-2005-06-22.patch.gz
[08:09] <crimsun> oh, that's safe
[08:10] <crimsun> that includes the 1.0.9a (and 1.0.9b, which Thomas and Jordi already applied)
[08:10] <fabbione> ok
[08:11] <pitti> infinity: depends on what the ETA for fixing that is...
[08:11] <infinity> pitti : -ENOELMO
[08:11] <pitti> infinity: since it is remote arbitrary code exection, I'd like to fix that ASAP
[08:11] <pitti> hm
[08:12] <pitti> infinity: can I build it on concordia? or will that kill concordia as well?
[08:12] <infinity> concordia runs the same kernel as the buildds, so you could end up blowing it up too...
[08:12] <fabbione> pitti: concordia will die like all the others
[08:12] <pitti> hm :-(
[08:12] <infinity> concodia's chroots may also be a bit unclean.
[08:12] <pitti> fabbione: it crashes during a debhelper call (dh_shlibdeps or so)
[08:13] <infinity> If we're going to bypass the buildds (ugh), I'd rather have some control over the build environment.
[08:13] <fabbione> pitti: i saw that.. the dmesg output is rather scary
[08:14] <fabbione> [ANNOUNCE]  ndevfs - a "nano" devfs
[08:14] <fabbione> not another dynamic /dev implementation :/
[08:14] <pitti> the famous last words of the petunia bowl
[08:17] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[08:17] <dholbach> hi
[08:17] <dholbach> hey pitti
[08:27] <infinity> dilinger : THinking is bad for your health.
[08:29] <fabbione> dilinger: dude.. that's on LKML... and it already gave me headacke for being monday :P
[08:31] <fabbione> who is part of the dbus team?
[08:32] <fabbione> daniels: dude?
[08:43] <fabbione> elmo:
[08:43] <fabbione> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libncurses5-dev libc6-dev-ppc64
[08:43] <fabbione> can you please install the above on davis/breezy chroot?
[08:46] <fabbione> infinity: well just queued the request :)
[08:55] <pitti> german guys: did you see the HP/Ubuntu article in the c't? :-)
[08:56] <dholbach> no, not yet
[08:57] <siretart> moin
[08:57] <pitti> Hi siretart 
[08:58] <siretart> infinity: do you happen to have access to the universe uploaders keyring?
[08:59] <siretart> I'd like to import it to the uploaders keyring of http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/index.py
[09:23] <pitti> hi jordi
[09:25] <dholbach> hey jordi  :)
[09:25] <hunger> When will the new linux-restricted-modules for breezy become available?
[09:25] <pitti> Hi carlos
[09:26] <pitti> hunger: before that we want the final version
[09:26] <pitti> (of 2.6.12)
[09:26] <hunger> pirr
[09:26] <hunger> pirr
[09:26] <carlos> morning
[09:26] <hunger> pitti Arg... typing is broken today:-)
[09:27] <jordi> hi pitti, daniel
[09:29] <dholbach> so who of you joins the review day? :)
[09:29] <hunger> dholbach: review day?
[09:29] <dholbach> hey mvo 
[09:30] <dholbach> hunger: yeah, we're trying to regain control on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview and wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
[09:30] <mvo> hey dholbach, morning all!
[09:31] <hunger> dholbach: Ah, ok. So it is nothing I can help with.
[09:31] <dholbach> hunger: hope to see you there soon ;)
[09:32] <hunger> dholbach: Nice of you to say so, but you do not want me there... I tend to break everything I touch:-(
[09:32] <dholbach> hunger: that's a good start :)
[09:32] <dholbach> morning sabdfl, morning ivoks :)
[09:32] <sabdfl> hey guys
[09:33] <pitti> Hi sabdfl
[09:33] <dholbach> how is it going?
[09:33] <hunger> dholbach: ... and I am even too stupid to register properly on the ubuntu pages, so I guess I failed the MOTU intelligence test;-)
[09:34] <dholbach> hunger: if you keep on trying, ... :)
[09:34] <jsgotangco> morning
[09:34] <dholbach> jsgotangco: hey jerome! :)
[09:35] <hunger> dholbach: Well... I keep on thinking of switching to gentoo... as I have to build so much stuff on my own anyway:-(
[09:35] <pitti> dholbach: is today the mega-review day?
[09:35] <dholbach> hunger: erm? why is that?
[09:35] <hunger> dholbach: My laptop is too new for breezy:-(
[09:35] <dholbach> pitti: yeah, we desperately needed it
[09:36] <hunger> dholbach: Well, actually gentoo has way older packages, so that is not an option either... looks like I am stuck with you;-)
[09:36] <dholbach> hunger: you should get in touch with the guys fixing this kind of stuff and help them fix it
[09:36] <jsgotangco> dholbach, hey! how was your weekend?
[09:36] <dholbach> jsgotangco: busy :)
[09:37] <hunger> dholbach: Yeap... I probably should do that.
[09:37] <dholbach> jsgotangco: i took a break from thesis/learning for the REVIEW DAY! :)
[09:37] <dholbach> hunger: absolutely
[09:37] <dholbach> morning doko
[09:37] <dholbach> jsgotangco: how are you?
[09:38] <hunger> dholbach: But there seems to be little interesst into exotic stuff like getting my TPM working (and the prerequisits are not even there in ubuntu yet).
[09:39] <jsgotangco> dholbach, not bad, actually my week started with a delivery of a new rack server at home for a client project for Oracle
[09:39] <dholbach> hunger: if nobody knows about the problems, it's unlikely to happen
[09:39] <jsgotangco> dholbach, strange thing is that Ubuntu runs perfectly on the system while RH AS 3.0 won't
[09:39] <Amaranth> isn't RH AS up to 4.0?
[09:40] <jsgotangco> ES rather
[09:40] <jsgotangco> Amaranth, yeah, its already 4.0 but some Oracle applications still want 3.0
[09:40] <jsgotangco> sometimes 2.1
[09:40] <jsgotangco> (RapidStart for instance)
[09:40] <hunger> dholbach: I might end up making some noise about the TPM stuff once the 2.6.12 kernel is in breezy.
[09:40] <dholbach> does anybody else get "wrong password" in the wiki?
[09:41] <jsgotangco> it would have been great if the RapidStart people in Thailand actually get the thing to run in Ubuntu
[09:41] <Amaranth> hunger: It's in.
[09:44] <hunger> Amaranth: Yeap, but the restricted modules are still missing... which stops net from working on my laptop. No fun;-)
[09:44] <Amaranth> ah, fun
[09:46] <ivoks_reviewer> dholbach: :))
[09:48] <Lathiat> hunger: the restricted modules is nto the problem
[09:48] <Lathiat> hunger: the problem is you have the wrong laptop ;p
[09:48] <dholbach> i hope we won't end up in so big lists next time, but i'm confident with http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/index.py around
[09:48] <opi> morning
[09:49] <hunger> Lathiat: It is not the laptop, that works fine. It's the OS!
[09:49] <dholbach> hey opi, it's review day - i just had a look at your acpitool
[09:49] <opi> dholbach: bah! I need to fix two things at least
[09:49] <opi> dholbach: remove hard deps (GCC and stuff)
[09:50] <opi> dholbach: and.. add better description
[09:50] <opi> dholbach: I was flooded with work lately :-(
[09:50] <dholbach> don't worry
[09:50] <daniels> fabbione: er
[09:50] <fabbione> daniels: if you can, would you be so kind to remove mono support in dbus for sparc?
[09:51] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, will do
[09:52] <fabbione> daniels: thanks a lot dude
[09:52] <daniels> np
[09:53] <\sh_reviewtime> wasabi: ping
[09:59] <mae> Hrm, does ubuntu plan to include NetworkManager into breezy?
[09:59] <bob2> udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkMagic
[10:00] <dholbach> hey bob2
[10:01] <bob2> hey dholbach 
[10:01] <bob2> oh crap
[10:01] <dholbach> i wasnt going to complain
[10:01] <mae> what about native eclipse.. does ubuntu plan to pick that up too? :)
[10:01] <dholbach> :)
[10:01] <bob2> :)
[10:01] <dholbach> mae: udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaRoadmap
[10:01] <\sh_reviewtime> wasabi: eclipse is broken :) the /etc/jvm.d/eclipse is missing...u don't install it anywhere ;)
[10:02] <dholbach> morning sbastien
[10:02] <seb128> hey dholbach :)
[10:02] <mae> hehe
[10:02] <pitti> Hey seb128 
[10:03] <seb128> hello pitti
[10:03] <mdke> can you guys log into the wiki? I can't right now
[10:04] <dholbach> mdke: no, me neither
[10:04] <dholbach> mdke: i'm making notes - this feels so 1980 ;)
[10:04] <\sh_reviewtime> i can :)
[10:04] <\sh_reviewtime> i actually logged in
[10:05] <mdke> ok \sh_reviewtime gets to do all the work
[10:05] <dholbach> hahaha
[10:06] <mae> udu some sort of acronym?
[10:06] <mdke> mae, yes, see the frontpage of that wiki
[10:06] <dholbach> mae: ubuntu down under
[10:07] <dholbach> mae: which was the codename of the last conference - should be all on the wiki itself :)
[10:07] <mdke> yes it is
[10:07] <mae> heh
[10:07] <mdke> elmo, dholbach and I can't log into the wiki and are getting withdrawal symptoms, is there anything you can do?
[10:08] <mae> well i've been messing around with network manager on fc4 and it looks pretty promising.. it works perfectly with wired connections but it gets messed up when i unplug the wire and it goes to the wireless connection :)
[10:08] <mdke> dholbach, you're delirious
[10:08] <bob2> the best bit is how it oopses the ipw2100 driver
[10:09] <dholbach> mdke: and you're soooo funny :)
[10:09] <mdke> ;)
[10:11] <mae> hehe well i'm running a broadcom chip through ndiswrapper and its screwing up.. pretty sure its NM and not ndiswrapper tho
[10:14] <fabbione> carlos: so.. i am looking at the initrd
[10:14] <fabbione> both the drivers are there...
[10:15] <fabbione> but you say that none of them is loaded?
[10:18] <carlos> fabbione, not sure with the final 2.6.12, previous one didn't load anyone
[10:19] <dholbach> bbl
[10:20] <carlos> fabbione, at least, the verbose boot didn't show me anything about megaraid
[10:20] <carlos> fabbione, with my home made kernel that includes the new driver inside the kernel I get the old one loaded too so perhaps it's a problem of both drivers being in conflict
[10:20] <fabbione> carlos: yes.. i think i found why
[10:21] <fabbione> no the problem is that none of them is claiming directly the LSI Logic / Symbios Logic MegaRAID vendor ID
[10:21] <fabbione> so basically both of them are probed or none
[10:23] <carlos> hmm, the new driver documentation lists my card as supported
[10:23] <carlos> so they forgot to add the ID?
[10:24] <fabbione> carlos: either they missed the ID or i did a wrong split.. but i am checking now
[10:24] <fabbione> the next upload should have the proper fix
[10:25] <fabbione> -       {PCI_VENDOR_ID_LSI_LOGIC, PCI_DEVICE_ID_AMI_MEGARAID3,
[10:25] <fabbione> -               PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, 0},
[10:25] <fabbione> this is from the old driver
[10:25] <fabbione> but there is no equivalent in the new one apparently
[10:26] <fabbione> so that's an easy fix :)
[10:26] <fabbione> or should be
[10:26] <fabbione> carlos: i will have a test kernel for you as soon as you wake up again
[10:27] <carlos> fabbione, cool. thank you
[10:27] <carlos> fabbione, btw, my card is an Intel SRCS16
[10:28] <fabbione> carlos: that's why i asked for lspci -n
[10:28] <fabbione> carlos: the 1000:1960 match is only in the old driver
[10:28] <fabbione> carlos: it's much easier to track ;)
[10:28] <fabbione> as you can see from the normal lspci, it shows up as LSI
[10:29] <carlos> fabbione, yeah, it also says LSI when I boot the computer
[10:29] <carlos> so not sure if it's correct or not
[10:29] <fabbione> the LSI is the vendor (1000)
[10:30] <fabbione> the Symbios Logic MegaRAID (1960) shows an AMI Megaraid 3 chipset
[10:30] <fabbione> Intel probably only assembled the overall
[10:30] <fabbione> and sold it as its own card
[10:30] <carlos> fabbione, ok
[10:36] <Kamion> pitti: don't we already have the final 2.6.12?
[10:36] <pitti> no :-(
[10:36] <pitti> linux-image-2.6.12-1-k7 | 2.6.11.94-1.2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[10:36] <pitti> linux-source-2.6.12 | 2.6.12-2.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[10:36] <pitti> linux-source-2.6.12 | 2.6.12-2.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Sources
[10:36] <pitti> martin@donald:~$
[10:36] <fabbione> Kamion: yes we do
[10:36] <pitti> Kamion: the source, yes, but no debs
[10:36] <fabbione> carlos: can you please add the last info for me ?
[10:36] <fabbione> carlos: lspci -vvv
[10:36] <fabbione> carlos: i need to see some subsystem info
[10:37] <Kamion> linux-image-2.6.12-2-k7 | 2.6.12-2.1 |        breezy | i386
[10:37] <Kamion> pitti: ^
[10:37] <pitti> argh, new ABI
[10:37] <pitti> thanks
[10:38] <fabbione> carlos: nevermind :) i found it
[10:38] <carlos> fabbione, too late, I added it already :-P
[10:38] <fabbione> #define PCI_DEVICE_ID_INTEL_RAID_SRCS16                 0x1960
[10:38] <fabbione> #define PCI_SUBSYS_ID_INTEL_RAID_SRCS16                 0x0523
[10:39] <mpt> seb128: Is "Go to font folder" Ubuntu-specific?
[10:39] <seb128> no
[10:40] <mpt> ta
[10:40] <seb128> np
[10:42] <fabbione> HMMM
[10:44] <mae> anaconda sucks
[10:44] <mae> so does yum and up2date
[10:45] <Amaranth> mae: iow you hate everything that isn't debian?
[10:45] <mae> well, no, just based on my experience.
[10:46] <bob2> fabbione: 2.6.12 from breezy won't boot on hoary, right?
[10:47] <mae> yum by itself is a very elegant piece of software, it makes rpm *alot* nicer.. but the fact that rpm dependency information is traditionally stored only in the headers of the packages themselves, it is painfully slow. :( yum search takes at least 30 seconds
[10:47] <fabbione> bob2: you can't install 2.6.12 in hoary without a few other packages
[10:48] <bob2> hrm
[10:48] <fabbione> bob2: and please don't even suggest that to people
[10:48] <bob2> fabbione: oh, I won't, this is for me :)
[10:48] <bob2> I want 2.6.12 for the x40 IRDA love
[10:48] <fabbione> the dependecies can't be satisfied without some stuff
[10:48] <mae> hehe
[10:48] <Amaranth> bob2: Use breezy? :)
[10:48] <fabbione> bob2: well you know what to do than :)
[10:48] <fabbione> bob2: i think it can boot... let me know :P
[10:49] <bob2> hahaha
[10:49] <bob2> thanks fabio :P
[10:49] <fabbione> brb
[10:49] <mae> Amaranth, I don't hate everything thats non-debian :) aside from those three qualities RH is a very polished distro, right down to the very cursor and icon themes.
[10:49] <Amaranth> ugh, bluecurve
[10:49] <mae> and the nice graphical tools to configure servers
[10:50] <bob2> Amaranth: was planning to hold out until X stays working for 2 days in a row ;p
[10:50] <Amaranth> it's worked for weeks for me (more or less)
[10:51] <ivoks_reviewer> mae: and you don't have to download whole Packages.gz just for one changed packag
[10:52] <ivoks_reviewer> mae: one downloads only new headers of that package...
[10:53] <mae> ivoks_reviewer, yes, and when you want to download that 1 package yum proceeds to download every header of every dependency and the depencies of those depencies and so on and so on if you want to install it :)
[10:53] <ivoks_reviewer> :)
[10:53] <mae> debian you dl it up front, redhat just toys with you
[10:54] <mae> i mean, i dont mind d/l'ing one packages.gz .. the dependency calculation is so much faster
[10:54] <ogra> happy review day everybody
[10:54] <ivoks_reviewer> wouldn't it be better if packages.gz would be devided per package?
[10:54] <ivoks_reviewer> ogra: you too :)
[10:54] <pitti> Hey ogra
[10:54] <dholbach> hey ogra :)
[10:55] <bob2> ivoks_reviewer: that would add more delays
[10:55] <bob2> unless you pipelined
[10:55] <mae> I'm on a satellite connection so "yum search" takes literally 1-2 minutes sometimes. because of the many connections it has to establish.  doing any yum operation is pure torture
[10:55] <bob2> ivoks_reviewer: a better solution would be storing diffs between Packages files on the server, so you only need to download the changes
[10:55] <ivoks_reviewer> bob2: even better
[10:56] <ivoks_reviewer> pitti: hi! i'm bit confused with CUPS in ubuntu, could you help me figure it out? :)
[10:56] <pitti> sure
[10:57] <mae> ivoks_reviewer, I am not trying to be a pundit, but I just tried out an rpm distro a few days ago and I got so mad..  I mean I don't even understand why RH still uses it, its awful
[10:57] <ivoks_reviewer> pitti: lpadmin group has every right to do with CUPS, right?
[10:57] <pitti> yes
[10:57] <ivoks_reviewer> pitti: and lp doesn't have any rights... basicly, unused group?
[10:58] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: no, group lp has the privilege to access printer devices directly
[10:58] <ivoks_reviewer> ok
[10:58] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: /dev/lp* and so on
[10:58] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: no user should be in that group
[10:58] <ivoks_reviewer> but user, not in groups lp or lpadmin can print
[10:58] <pitti> yes
[10:58] <ivoks_reviewer> but can't delete it's print jobs
[10:58] <pitti> but only through cups
[10:58] <pitti> yes, I have a bug about that
[10:58] <ivoks_reviewer> i submited it :)
[10:58] <pitti> ah, ok :-)
[10:59] <ivoks_reviewer> ok, so there is no way to create user that will be unable to print? :)
[10:59] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: that should be discussed
[11:00] <pitti> we could introduce a group that has printing privileges
[11:00] <ivoks_reviewer> i tought so, yes
[11:00] <pitti> but of course that will lock out all existing users out there
[11:00] <ivoks_reviewer> i just suggested wrong group
[11:00] <ivoks_reviewer> pitti: true
[11:00] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: well, it's not so bad, lpadmin should be allowed to print anyway
[11:01] <ivoks_reviewer> but having all users able to print... makes hard creating print server
[11:01] <pitti> ivoks_reviewer: and on upgrade it will be necessary to put other users into the "printing" group if appropriate
[11:01] <ivoks_reviewer> that would be easy
[11:01] <ivoks_reviewer> check out who is in lpadmin
[11:01] <ivoks_reviewer> and add it to printing
[11:02] <ivoks_reviewer> that would requiere changing users-admin tool, too
[11:02] <mdke> can anyone else fix wiki login?
[11:05] <mako> Mez, mdke: yes yes
[11:06] <ivoks_reviewer> :)
[11:07] <ogreview> hey marilize :)
[11:07] <mdke> mako, is that a yes, you can fix it?
[11:08] <ivoks_reviewer> mae: rpm has lots of disadvantages, true (sorry for late reply)
[11:09] <mae> ivoks_reviewer, hehe np :)
[11:11] <mae> hey what do most of you guys use for a development env.. i haven't been able to get used anything but vi.
[11:11] <mae> but vi doesn't have code-completion or any other of those nifty time-savers :)
[11:12] <Lathiat> yes it does, your just not using it properly :)
[11:13] <mae> Lathiat, enlighten me?
[11:14] <Lathiat> im not sure of the secifics i dont use it much
[11:14] <Lathiat> ^x-
 stuff
[11:14] <Lathiat> can complete function names, other words in the files, etc
[11:14] <daniels> mdz: ping
[11:14] <fabbione> carlos: still awake?
[11:14] <Kamion> mae: ctrl-n, ctrl-p
[11:15] <Kamion> mae: assuming you're using vim, as you probably should be if you want a development editor
[11:15] <mako> mdke: i think that was a nick completion error :)
[11:16] <ogreview> Kamion++
[11:16] <ogreview> :)
[11:17] <Kamion> oh, just my luck, fabbione's hammering concordia
[11:17] <fabbione> Kamion: i can stop immediatly
[11:18] <Kamion> nah, it's ok, I can cope with a bit of latency once I know why it's there
[11:18] <fabbione> Kamion: done.. all your
[11:18] <daniels> Kamion: XORG BUILD O'CLOCK
[11:18] <fabbione> no problem.. i was only doing a test build
[11:18] <fabbione> nothing important
[11:20] <Kamion> fabbione: all yours again
[11:20] <iwj> Hello people.
[11:20] <fabbione> Kamion: danke
[11:20] <Kamion> morning Ian
[11:20] <daniels> pitti: about one for every day I'm away, AFAICT :P
[11:20] <daniels> iwj: good morning
[11:20] <dholbach> morning iwj 
[11:20] <pitti> Hello iwj, welcome 
[11:21] <iwj> Just popping in for half an hour at the moment, to say hello.
[11:21] <lifeless> welcome iwj 
[11:21] <mdke> mako, ah k
[11:22] <fabbione> hey iwj 
[11:22] <Kamion> mjg59: new CD image for HP building now, should be ready within fifteen minutes or so
[11:22] <fabbione> YAY for ABI changes!
[11:23] <iwj> What kind of hours does mdz keep ?
[11:23] <pitti> ogreview: D'oh, what's the point in beagle if I only get exceptions, and the daemon immediately crashes if I start it manually? :-(
[11:23] <dholbach> pitti: enjoy brandnew software :)
[11:23] <daniels> iwj: late West Coast
[11:23] <iwj> Right.
[11:23] <Kamion> iwj: typically turns up around 4 or 5pm London time, and continues until well after I go to bed
[11:23] <pitti> dholbach: yes, but... "FATAL: Could not set extended attributes on a file in your home directory."
[11:23] <daniels> iwj: typically seems to sleep around 1000 UTC, wake up at about 1800 or thereabouts
[11:23] <pitti> dholbach: that's just *stupid*
[11:24] <dholbach> pitti: ah yes... you have to change something to your filesystem's mount options :)
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: do you use user_xattr ?
[11:24] <dholbach> pitti: add user_xattr
[11:24] <pitti> no, I don't use that stuff
[11:24] <seb128> you should
[11:24] <ogreview> pitti, defaults,user_xattr
[11:24] <pitti> that thing is supposed to read my files, not mess up my ~...
[11:24] <pitti> yes, I read it on the wiki page
[11:25] <seb128> ah ah
[11:25] <seb128> just don't use beagle :)
[11:25] <pitti> well, I'll give it a try at some day
[11:25] <Treenaks> I've tried beagle... but I just don't seem to need it
[11:26] <ogreview> Treenaks, hey, its hip to use it :)
[11:26] <dholbach> i reviewed kat (kde's equivalent) and after spitting out 20mbs of sqlite file it stopped dead :)
[11:27] <dholbach> fancy desktop search has still some child diseases it seems
[11:27] <seb128> beagle sucks atm imho
[11:27] <Treenaks> ogreview: oh sure, it looks nice
[11:27] <dholbach> seb128: my french harry potter books arrived - i'll bug you with silly questions soon ;-)
[11:27] <Treenaks> ogreview: but I just don't need it :)
[11:28] <seb128> dholbach: cool :)
[11:28] <ogreview> Treenaks, nobody needs it, but you have to have it  ;)
[11:28] <seb128> people working on ffmpeg, Debian has a new snapshot of the CVS :p
[11:28] <ogra> seb128, thanks
[11:28] <\sh_reviewtime> seb128: u said the wrong word ;-)
[11:28] <ogra> seb128, but i doubt it will compile
[11:29] <Treenaks> ogra: it's mono. it eats too much memory. and my ~ layout is sane :)
[11:29] <ogra> Treenaks, yes, but youre out of fashion then.... only using grep isnt zeitgeisty
[11:30] <Treenaks> ogra: I don't really care :)
[11:30] <Treenaks> ogra: weird German words :)
[11:30] <ogra> Treenaks, its english :) thats why its so funny
[11:31] <Treenaks> ogra: where do you think they stole it? :P
[11:31] <ogra> hehe
[11:33] <carlos> fabbione, hi
[11:34] <ogra> infinity, could you have a look at libsigcx ? it was uploaded last thursday, according to the build log it built, but the ubuntu1 binaries didnt get copied to the archive
[11:34] <fabbione> carlos: yo dude.. http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/ get initrd.img-2.6.12-2-686.new
[11:34] <fabbione> carlos: replace the one in /boot created by the installer and let me know if that one work :)
[11:34] <carlos> fabbione, dude, we are in the same time zone. I was sleepy because I just woke up when you pinged me :-)
[11:34] <carlos> fabbione, ok
[11:34] <fabbione> carlos: ehhehe thanks
[11:35] <seb128> elmo: gnome-terminal drivel sync please
[11:39] <carlos> fabbione, it boots now. Thanks!
[11:40] <fabbione> carlos: cool.... now please don't upgrade the kernel for the next release if i don't tell you to do so
[11:40] <fabbione> the driver is ok
[11:40] <carlos> ok
[11:40] <fabbione> it's the initrd creation that needs fix
[11:40] <fabbione> basically when the initrd is created, it still sees the old module loaded for that controller
[11:40] <fabbione> and it assumes that the module will be the same
[11:41] <fabbione> i need to add a one line hack in it
[11:41] <fabbione> so that it will load both of them
[11:41] <fabbione> there is no conflict.. it was simply not loaded at all
[11:41] <infinity> ogra : Did it contain NEW binaries?
[11:41] <carlos> hmm, it does not looks like it has an easy solution
[11:41] <ogra> infinity, nope its CXX transition stuff
[11:41] <ogra> infinity, and it holds up other packages :/
[11:42] <carlos> unless I create it without that module loaded
[11:42] <dholbach> ogra: the   *c2  stuff is a new binary package
[11:42] <infinity> ogra : If it's CXX transition stuff, then it must have had new binary packages.
[11:42] <fabbione> carlos: nah i can just fix it.. don't worry.. 
[11:42] <ogra> infinity, dholbach err, yes, right
[11:42] <dholbach> ogra: so it'll need manual review
[11:42] <carlos> ok
[11:42] <infinity> ogra : So, yeah.  It's waiting on someone to push it through the NEW queue.
[11:42] <fabbione> carlos: i need to make an initrd-tools upload with that fix BEFORE the next kernel :)
[11:42] <carlos> fabbione, thank you for your time
[11:42] <infinity> Kamion : ping.
[11:42] <fabbione> carlos: no, thanks to you for helping hunting down the bug
[11:44] <carlos> fabbione, btw, I have another one about the network card, in case you are bored and taskless :-)
[11:44] <fabbione> carlos: is that a sk98lin?
[11:44] <carlos> but I'm not sure it's a kernel problem (althought it came with 2.6.12)
[11:44] <carlos> no
[11:44] <fabbione> 8139cp ?
[11:44] <carlos> yes
[11:44] <carlos> 8139cp
[11:44] <fabbione> known upstream bug
[11:44] <fabbione> i read the thread this morning
[11:45] <carlos> It works, but I need to turn on the network by hand
[11:45] <carlos> every time
[11:45] <carlos> becasue hotplug gets confused
[11:45] <carlos> is that the problem?
[11:45] <fabbione> carlos: it's not just hotplug
[11:45] <infinity> Kamion : libsigcx needs some NEW love for it's binaries, if you could be so kind.
[11:46] <carlos> fabbione, will wait for the fix then, in the mean time, an 'ifup eth0' fixes it
[11:46] <fabbione> carlos: according to the report, it cannot send traffic at all
[11:46] <Kamion> infinity: OK, will do shortly, just catching up on activity reports
[11:47] <carlos> I can
[11:47] <carlos> fabbione, so perhaps is not the same problem...
[11:47] <fabbione> carlos: hmmm .... i think i know what it is... 
[11:48] <carlos> fabbione, the problem I get here is that I see an error about being unable to map eth0
[11:48] <carlos> and the network is not loaded, but an 'ifup eth0' fixes it
[11:48] <fabbione> carlos: that's a grepmap issue i think.. it's not kernel related. i see tthat one too here with other cards
[11:48] <fabbione> ifup eth0 doesn't modprobe the driver
[11:48] <fabbione> the driver is already loaded at that point
[11:49] <carlos> but it came with 2.6.12
[11:49] <carlos> 2.6.10 does not have that problem
[11:49] <fabbione> carlos: it did come with breezy
[11:49] <fabbione> i could see that with 2.6.10 too
[11:49] <carlos> fabbione, breezy + 2.6.10 works
[11:49] <carlos> here
[11:49] <fabbione> and iface configured via dhcp
[11:49] <fabbione> if i switch to static ip it works fine
[11:49] <fabbione> but i had really no time to look at that
[11:50] <carlos> well, I can wait, it's my home server so I don't reboot it too often
[11:51] <fabbione> carlos: ok.. 
[12:02] <bob2> hrm, is it possible to add to the pci ids a driver recognises at runtime?
[12:07] <Lathiat> bob2: why on earth would you want to do that
[12:08] <Mithrandir> uhm, why on earth are the host entries in my ssh known_hosts file base64 encoded?
[12:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ^^
[12:08] <daniels> Mithrandir: it's new and shiny.
[12:08] <daniels> you can disable it if you like
[12:08] <Mithrandir> base64 is old and crufty.
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: see the changelog and/or the NEWS file
[12:08] <tseng> Mithrandir: 64 > 32
[12:08] <tseng> :)
[12:08] <Mithrandir> it's terrible, I don't have base64grep.
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: use ssh-keygen to manage known_hosts
[12:08] <daniels> HashKnownHosts
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it has new options to do it
[12:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that's such a wrong tool to do that. :-)
[12:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: blame upstream :-)
[12:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: blaming openssh upstream sounds like the right thing, yes.
[12:10] <bob2> Lathiat: because the x40 ir port is supported by the nsc-ircc driver, but the id wasn't added until 2.6.12-rc1
[12:10] <Mithrandir> bob2: ah, that's right, but it's a trivial patch.
[12:10] <bob2> yeah
[12:10] <Mithrandir> bob2: or you could get my nsc-ircc which works, iirc.
[12:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but the exact location of the functionality is not all that relevant; in any case, the point was to slow down attacks that discover other hosts to attack by browsing through known_hosts
[12:10] <bob2> but it still requires a rebuild :)
[12:11] <Mithrandir> bob2: I have the module if you trust me.
[12:11] <hunger> Damn, the tpm fix I need did not make it into 2.6.12.1.
[12:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: also, base64 is only the armouring; it's actually a SHA-1 hash
[12:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it sounds utterly unuseful, but I digress.
[12:14] <Kamion> I disagree; I thought about it before enabling it (it's not the upstream default yet, although they want testing)
[12:15] <ogra> seb128, no go for ffmpeg :(
[12:16] <azeem> Sheesh, look at how Canonical is treating its employees:
[12:16] <azeem> http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/photos/lt2005/img038.jpeg
[12:16] <seb128> what's wrong with this one?
[12:16] <daniels> haha
[12:16] <daniels> he looks like mother teresa for some reason
[12:16] <ogra> azeem, yes, we dont even can buy shoes :)
[12:16] <Mithrandir> I wonder how many miles that water bottle has traveled.
[12:17] <daniels> ogra: speak for yo'self
[12:17] <Kamion> infinity: libsigcx NEWed
[12:17] <ogra> seb128, the same.... it breaks with a ton of assembler errors on i386.... at least it builds unpatched on amd64 now ...
[12:17] <ogra> so its a step further...
[12:17] <ogra> but only a small one
[12:18] <mdke> anyone awake who can fix the wiki yet?
[12:18] <ogra> Kamion, thanks a lot , that held up a bunch of other packages
[12:19] <ogra> seb128,  error: PIC register '%ebx' clobbered in 'asm'
[12:20] <Kamion> fabbione: will you kill me if sparc stops being debootstrappable for a bit? I haven't quite worked out what to do with lib64gcc1's priority
[12:22] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem at all
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: if you need access to the sparc to work out stuff, or need me to check something, just tell me ok?
[12:24] <Kamion> sure - I'm trying to juggle all the architectures at the moment though :)
[12:25] <daniels> Kamion: by the way, I'm going to switch to the libdl-based loader tomorrow, so most architectures should be broken
[12:25] <daniels> Kamion: and also split xserver-xorg up into one package per driver and remove xlibs-dev
[12:26] <daniels> Kamion: but seriously.  if I do the xserver-xorg thing, and have xserver-xorg Recommend each driver package, will dist-upgrades bpull the Recommends in?
[12:26] <Kamion> I think my trollmeter just went off
[12:26] <daniels> Kamion: having xserver-xorg Depend on each driver seems to defeat the point a little.
[12:26] <Kamion> daniels: no
[12:26] <daniels> Kamion: (i'm serious about the xserver-xorg one-package-per-driver thing)
[12:26] <daniels> Kamion: hm.  shit.
[12:26] <Kamion> daniels: aptitude can be configured to do that, but apt-get won't
[12:27] <Kamion> why one package per driver? the facility to have third-party driver packages, sure, but it seems a little bit for-the-sake-of-it
[12:27] <daniels> preparing for what will happen when we drop the modular server into breezy
[12:28] <daniels> whereby every driver is built externally, for obvious reasons
[12:28] <daniels> also makes driver fixes a *lot* easier
[12:28] <Kamion> the only way to make upgrades work, that I can think of, is to make xserver-xorg a metapackage and move the actual server somewhere else
[12:28] <daniels> hm
[12:29] <daniels> i was thinking of that, but there are lots of xserver-xorg | xserver-xfree86 depends I'd need to chnage
[12:29] <daniels> although xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-driver-* sounds appealing
[12:29] <daniels> (later to become libxserver-dix and xserver-xorg-core)
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> daniels, should we keep our fingers crossed?
[12:50] <daniels> i'm still working out exactly what's happened to xorg
[12:50] <fabbione> carlos: is there any way i can get ssh access to your box?
[12:51] <carlos> fabbione, sure
[12:51] <fabbione> carlos: cool
[12:57] <carlos> fabbione, you should have the login information in your mailbox
[12:57] <fabbione> carlos: thanks
[12:58] <carlos> fabbione, do you need extra priviledges?
[12:58] <fabbione> not sure yet
[12:58] <carlos> ok
[12:58] <fabbione> carlos: it doesn't like the passwd
[12:59] <carlos> fabbione, that's because I'm so stupid that closed the user and admin dialog without saving the changes...
[12:59] <fabbione> ahaha
[01:00] <carlos> fabbione, try again now.
[01:01] <fabbione> carlos: much better :)
[01:02] <fabbione> carlos: i need sudo mkinitrd privileges
[01:05] <daniels> mdz: unless you have any objections, -33 will change autodetect_* behaviour
[01:05] <daniels> mdz: they'll all become temporary flags (i.e. need to be set every time before you run it), and dpkg-reconfigure will automatically set them all to true
[01:08] <daniels> mdz: actually, bugger that
[01:08] <daniels> mdz: nevermind me
[01:22] <mdke> are the changelogs for security updates available somewhere?
[01:22] <Treenaks> mdke: in the packages ?
[01:23] <mdke> apart from that
[01:23] <Lathiat> and on changelogs.u.c, if you use update manager you can look at them when you update
[01:23] <jordi> JaneW: ping
[01:23] <mdke> Lathiat, ok thanks that's what I wanted
[01:27] <mdke> Lathiat, i can't find the security changelog for the kernel update on that site, do you know where it might be?
[01:27] <mdke> Lathiat, nm
[01:28] <opi> morning sabdfl 
[01:29] <sabdfl> hiya
[01:29] <pitti> moin sabdfl 
[01:31] <ajmitch> hi
[01:31] <ivoks> hi
[01:33] <mdke> sabdfl, hi! are you able to resolve the wiki login being down?
[01:38] <jbailey> Kamion: No, ppc64 systems do not require libc6-ppc64 to work.  I tihnk for now it can safely be pulled in as a dependancy. 
[01:38] <JaneW> jordi: pong
[01:39] <daniels> mdz: heads-up: force_keyboard_detection is being renamed to autodetect_keyboard in -33
[01:40] <Kamion> jbailey: dependency of what?
[01:41] <jbailey> Kamion: ANything that eventually needs it.  svenl suggested that procps might be happiest compiled as ppc64 for that arch (I haven't needed it yet, it's on my to-look-at- list)
[01:43] <fabbione> carlos: i have done for now. I will probably ssh back in if jbailey has a fix to test for it
[01:43] <carlos> fabbione, ok
[01:44] <elmo> Kamion: pls try triggering archvsync@magellanic ?
[01:44] <Kamion> jbailey: strace maybe?
[01:44] <carlos> fabbione, will remove the admin permissions now, please ask for tehm again when you need them. I will leave the normal account until you finish.
[01:44] <Kamion> jbailey: (it depends on libc6-sparc64 on sparc)
[01:44] <fabbione> carlos: that's perfect! thanks
[01:45] <Kamion> elmo: bash: /home/archvsync/torrent-sync: Permission denied
[01:45] <elmo> score
[01:45] <elmo> and once more, for muppets the world over?
[01:45] <jbailey> Kamion: Right, might be useful there too.
[01:45] <jbailey> Kamion: But even so, I suspect it can be just pulled in as a dependancy of strace.
[01:46] <fabbione> elmo: hey dude
[01:46] <elmo> fabbione: hey, I fixed davis/breezy - sorry about that
[01:46] <fabbione> elmo: no problem.. thanks :)
[01:47] <fabbione> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libc6-dev-ppc64
[01:47] <fabbione> elmo... hmmmm
[01:47] <fabbione> it still claims it's not there...
[01:47] <sabdfl> mdke: not personally, but i'll ask about it if it's still an issue
[01:47] <Lathiat> Anyone know if the python apt bindings can work on an external cache/archive set to that of the running system ?
[01:48] <elmo> fabbione: err, whoops - that was && after the dist-upgrade which failed - fixed
[01:48] <Kamion> elmo: triggered, did it work?
[01:49] <Kamion> jbailey: sure, it would be - I was really just wondering whether it should/could be promoted to priority required/important
[01:49] <fabbione> eeheh thanks elmo
[01:49] <Kamion> jbailey: (along with everything else pulled in by dependencies of base system stuff)
[01:49] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, it's pulsing now
[01:50] <jbailey> Kamion: I don't know yet, sorry.
[01:51] <sabdfl> mdke: seems to be working fine
[01:51] <Kamion> elmo: righto, automated
[01:51] <elmo> Kamion: cheers, sorry about that
[01:52] <jordi> did JaneW reply before I lost my link?
[01:52] <JaneW> jordi: yes I said pong
[01:53] <Kamion> elmo: np
[01:53] <jordi> JaneW: sorry, power outage where my server is :)
[01:53] <mdke> sabdfl, neither myself nor dholbach could log in earlier. here I still can't login
[01:53] <sabdfl> mdke: can you diagnose that with elmo please?
[01:54] <mdke> sabdfl, sure thing
[01:54] <mdke> elmo, we can't login to the wiki
[01:54] <mdke> launchpad login is working fine
[01:56] <elmo> mdke: when did you last try to login?
[01:56] <mdke> right now
[01:56] <mdke> elmo ^
[01:57] <elmo> mdke: what IP are you coming from?
[01:58] <mdke> erm
[01:58] <mdke> lemme look
[01:58] <mdke> 81.178.109.10
[01:58] <mdke> elmo ^
[01:59] <mdke> so can others log in?
[01:59] <mdke> dholbach said earlier it was down for him too
[01:59] <elmo> I did without any problem, yes
[01:59] <mdke> hmm
[02:00] <mdke> was working fine for me last night, this morning, it has not been working since I got up
[02:01] <mdke> also jsgotangco said he couldn't login
[02:07] <elmo> mdke: what's your username for launchpad?
[02:07] <mdke> matthew.east@breathe.com
[02:08] <tseng> infinity: alive?
[02:09] <elmo> I'm sure there was something that would auto-decrypt https traffic given the relevant cert - does anyone remember what it is?
[02:09] <tseng> ssldump?
[02:10] <elmo> aha, that looks like it, thanks tseng
[02:10] <elmo> mdke: please try again now?
[02:10] <tseng> nps
[02:10] <jbailey> "The only result can be that nobody gives a damn about ppc." - Ulrich Drepper.
[02:11] <ogra> wow, the new gnome-power improved a lot :)
[02:11] <mdke> elmo, works now!
[02:11] <mdke> elmo, thanks a lot. what was up?
[02:11] <jbailey> Anyone feel like showing up at his door with axes and torches with me?
[02:11] <elmo> mdke: ok, cool.  the authserver had a code roll out that broke some wiki logins.  it's been rolled back until the developers can diagnose and fix
[02:12] <pitti> jbailey: I'd rather club him with my ibook
[02:12] <elmo> pitti: I wouldn't, they're a precious/rare commmodity these days :-P
[02:12] <pitti> hm, right
[02:12] <pitti> elmo: what about a wooden iBook imitate? :-)
[02:12] <Mithrandir> elmo: well, real laptops take hitting people just fine.
[02:12] <jbailey> pitti: I have  G5 here that I"m pretty certain would survive. =)
[02:13] <pitti> heh
[02:13] <mdke> elmo, ok thanks for sorting it
[02:13] <bob2> haha
[02:13] <jbailey> bob2: Hey. =)
[02:13] <tseng> elmo: im hoping muine looks better to you today, unstable accepted it with a bit less splitting
[02:13] <jbailey> bob2: Oops, ECHAN. =)
[02:15] <elmo> tseng: I'm not overly thrilled about the split in debian unstable, but I processed the ubuntu new one since it got in there
[02:15] <tseng> elmo: thanks.
[02:15] <Kamion> fabbione: what happened to sk98lin in nic-extra-modules?
[02:16] <Kamion> fabbione: or come to that at all
[02:16] <fabbione> Kamion: it's missing. we removed sk98lin to include skge, it's in the pending queue for the nic-* cleanup
[02:17] <Kamion> fabbione: oh, ok, please do that ASAP so that my primary d-i test machine works again :P
[02:17] <fabbione> Kamion: i am going to finish the cleanup tomorrow and upload the new kernel
[02:17] <fabbione> Kamion: we habe another abi change to deal with :)
[02:17] <Kamion> aargh
[02:17] <fabbione> brought to you by alsa 1.0.9 and ocfs
[02:18] <Kamion> and tomorrow daniels is going to rearrange xorg, so CDs are hosed for another week
[02:18] <fabbione> i could revert all the changes and upload 2.2 with only that fix
[02:19] <fabbione> but it's kind of a pain
[02:19] <fabbione> daniels: can you give me tomorrow before rearranging X?
[02:20] <fabbione> Kamion: if i upload tomorrow by 12:00 UTC, i think we can get the abi change in pretty fast...
[02:20] <fabbione> Kamion: specially if the kernel hit buildds with the latest ccache
[02:20] <fabbione> actually.. much earlier than that
[02:21] <daniels> fabbione: -33 won't feature any rearrangements
[02:21] <fabbione> Kamion: ^^
[02:21] <daniels> i'm thinking I might separate my 'fixes for painful bugs' and 'break more shit out' uploads
[02:21] <fabbione> is that ok for you?
[02:22] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[02:22] <fabbione> ok perfect... 
[02:22] <ogra> Kamion, what is the plan ith UbuntuExpress now ?
[02:22] <ogra> with even
[02:22] <fabbione> we can prepare all the other stuff before hands
[02:22] <Kamion> ogra: mdz's doing a framework
[02:22] <fabbione> so it won't be too painful
[02:22] <fabbione> jbailey: do you think you can give the initrd-tools fix for that before tomorrow?
[02:22] <ogra> Kamion, yes i saw it, but what about the other guys that wanted to do it
[02:23] <Kamion> ogra: as far as I know, we're going to implement the framework first and then have the other guys flesh it out
[02:23] <Kamion> ogra: because having inexperienced people try to do the framework didn't work out well
[02:23] <ogra> ah, ok, i thought they already dropped it
[02:23] <jbailey> fabbione: Define 'tomorrow' =)
[02:23] <Kamion> I don't know, I've been buried in other things
[02:23] <fabbione> jbailey: within your working day
[02:23] <ogra> Kamion, me too, thats why i ask :)
[02:23] <ogra> Kamion, thanks for the info
[02:23] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, I have 8 items or so to do today, this will be one of them.
[02:24] <fabbione> jbailey: so that when i start tomorrow morning i can test it
[02:24] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, should be no problem.
[02:24] <fabbione> jbailey: perfect.. i count on that
[02:29] <Mithrandir> jamesh: around?
[02:32] <Kamion> pitti: grep: usr/share/locale/af/LC_TIME/coreutils.mo: No such file or directory
[02:32] <Kamion> pitti: it's a dangling symlink. Is that a pkgstriptranslations bug?
[02:32] <pitti> /usr/share/locale/af/LC_TIME/coreutils.mo -> ../LC_MESSAGES/coreutils.mo
[02:32] <pitti> WTH?
[02:33] <pitti> Kamion: well, pkgstriptranslations of course strips away LC_MESSAGES/*.mo
[02:33] <pitti> I didn't think about symlinking from LC_* to LC_MESSAGES
[02:37] <daniels> so, I'm going to create a cute little race tonight or tomorrow in which /usr/bin/X11/Xorg and /usr/bin/X11/X will disappear
[02:37] <daniels> dist-upgrade and get the new xserver-common and xserver-xorg (6.8.2-33) when it arrives, then dist-upgrade again to get x-common 1.01
[02:37] <daniels> and life should be peachy
[02:38] <pitti> Kamion: does such a symlink make sense in the first place?
[02:38] <Kamion> pitti: dunno, I haven't looked at the code
[02:38] <pitti> ok
[02:38] <Kamion> I suppose it could do
[02:38] <pitti> Kamion: thanks for the hint, I'll look at it
[02:39] <Kamion> I am totally mystified by #11787
[02:40] <Kamion> netcfg has no code that can do that, as far as I can see, so something else must be munging /etc/network/interfaces
[02:40] <daniels> Kamion: fwiw, with x-common 1.01, /usr/bin/X11 becomes a symlink to /usr/bin
[02:40] <Kamion> hooray
[02:44] <doko> Mithrandir: the multiarch-include patch for gcc doesn't honor -m32/-m64. if you use -m32 on amd64, /usr/include/x86_64 is in the include path, not /usr/include/i486-linux. that's not the way we want it.
[02:44] <mdke> dholbach, get your wiki hits now! 
[02:45] <Mithrandir> doko: jbailey discovered that a bit ago, and yes, I'm aware of it but I haven't looked at it and fixed it.
[02:45] <dholbach> mdke: already did some changes :)
[02:45] <mdke> :)
[02:51] <dholbach> did anybody else experience an inexplicable disturbance in the buildds' force?
[02:52] <dholbach> resulting in random segfaults?
[02:53] <Kamion> any particular architecture?
[02:53] <dholbach> powerpc
[02:54] <dholbach> glom's build didn't succeed and the nasm build looks strange too
[02:54] <dholbach> both segfaulted at some stage
[02:56] <Kamion> powerpc has been randomly SIGILLing for a long tim
[02:56] <Kamion> e
[02:56] <Kamion> though I'd thought the 64-bit kernel fixed that
[02:57] <dholbach> hrm
[02:58] <infinity> Kamion : We don't have new kernels on the buildds yet.  Heopfully, that's a "this week" thing.
[02:58] <Kamion> aha
[02:58] <dholbach> oh cool
[02:58] <dholbach> good to know
[02:58] <infinity> dholbach : given back.
[02:58] <dholbach> *fingers crossed* ;)
[02:58] <dholbach> infinity: thank you
[03:01] <tseng> infinity: hey, could you maybe explain another buildd bugger?
[03:01] <tseng> infinity: gtk-sharp2-unstable has lots of segfaults on x86 buildd, not not in my pbuilder
[03:01] <infinity> dholbach : glom succeeded, nasm failed in the same place, looks like ps2pdf is buggy.
[03:02] <pitti> dholbach: btw, does glom run any better now with the current psql packages?
[03:02] <infinity> dholbach : I'm off to bed right now, can you check if ps2pdf currently has a bug open about SEGVs on PPC, and if not, open one?  (assign it to me, if you're feeling adventurous)
[03:03] <infinity> tseng : Want to bug me about it in ~9 hours? (or mail me... adconrad@u.c)
[03:03] <tseng> infinity: hm sure
[03:03] <infinity> tseng : Danke.
[03:03] <daniels> infinity: night.  slacker.
[03:05] <dholbach> pitti: you have go through the same configuration "pain" but at least it's explained on glom's wiki
[03:06] <pitti> dholbach: it should work out of the box over the unix socket
[03:06] <dholbach> infinity: thanks a lot
[03:06] <pitti> dholbach: can you please try to bug me about it from time to time?
[03:06] <dholbach> pitti: that's a libgda thing
[03:10] <pitti> elmo: quota sync, please
[03:21] <mpt> sabdfl: What do I need to do to get http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/MigratingToUbuntu approved?
[03:23] <mpt> hi AndyFitz
[03:23] <AndyFitz> g'day mpt
[03:23] <tseng> AndyFitz: bloody rippah
[03:24] <daniels> awhyeahripper!
[03:24] <AndyFitz> tseng, struth mate.  today was s-house.   how was yours ?
[03:24] <mpt> rats
[03:24] <Kamion> mpt: erk, that's the first time I've ever seen that spec and it requires non-trivial installer work
[03:24] <tseng> AndyFitz: rockin
[03:25] <mpt> Kamion: I don't think Step 2 would be a BreezyGoal :-)
[03:25] <mpt> Stage 2, rather
[03:25] <mpt> Stage 1 at most
[03:25] <Kamion> mpt: ok, that's not mentioned
[03:25] <Kamion> it should be, for avoidance of panic among those with distro schedules :)
[03:26] <Kamion> p.s. what does "current OS" mean? it's often very hard to tell
[03:26] <daniels> mpt: i hope you're planning to implement #13
[03:26] <Kamion> for dual-boot, sure, but triple-boot or more are common
[03:26] <mpt> daniels: haha
[03:26] <Kamion> (e.g. win95, winxp, linux)
[03:26] <tseng> thom: why does nm run its own nameserver?
[03:27] <daniels> mpt: seriously.
[03:27] <silbs> AndyFitz: ping
[03:27] <Kamion> the language choice one is not possible without serious installer reengineering
[03:27] <AndyFitz> slibs: pong
[03:27] <daniels> tseng: i assume because kicking all apps to re-read resolv.conf (*cough*FIREFOX*cough*) is a pain in the arse
[03:27] <AndyFitz> silbs, pong
[03:27] <Kamion> (because the language is chosen before the disks are readable)
[03:27] <Kamion> although UbuntuExpress might help with that
[03:27] <mpt> daniels: That would require learning to program
[03:28] <daniels> mpt: oh well
[03:28] <mpt> I'm all about the Stage 1
[03:28] <daniels> i'm not about the stage 2, in this case
[03:28] <mpt> naturally
[03:29] <hunger> Is it really necessary for network-manager to install bind9?
[03:31] <thom> tseng: work around the fact you can't reload libc's resolver sensibly, and tell apps that they need to do it too
[03:32] <daniels> mpt: if you're seriously proposing #13, you need to find someone to do it
[03:32] <seb128> daniels: same for the other points too :p
[03:34] <Kamion> really those things ought to be separate specs
[03:34] <thom> hunger: for the moment, yes; see my answer to tseng
[03:35] <daniels> Kamion: yet it must be approved yesterday
[03:36] <hunger> thom: resolveconf doesen't do it well enough?
[03:37] <thom> hunger: no.
[03:37] <hunger> thom: Damn:-)
[03:37] <hunger> thom: So resolvconf can go when installing nm?
[03:38] <hunger> thom: How about using some simpler thing as bind like dnsmasq?
[03:38] <hunger> s/as/than/
[03:43] <thom> no, resolvconf is still useful
[03:43] <thom> hunger: and no, nm directly controls bind, so something else would need aditional code
[03:44] <Lathiat> it should bind to 127.0.0.1 only by default tho :\
[03:44] <Lathiat> not sure hwo to do that conditionally
[03:45] <thom> Lathiat: the config does that
[03:45] <Lathiat> it does?
[03:45] <Lathiat> mine wasnt
[03:45] <thom> listen-on  { 127.0.0.1; };
[03:45] <Lathiat> well mine wasnt doing that
[03:45] <Lathiat> and i added that line myself
[03:46] <thom> to /var/lib/NetworkManager/NetworkManager-named.conf?
[03:46] <thom> that's a generated file
[03:46] <Lathiat> no to named.conf.local
[03:46] <Lathiat> or whateveritis
[03:46] <thom> that's not used by NM's bind
[03:46] <Lathiat> hrm
[03:46] <Lathiat> so why was itlistening before
[03:46] <Lathiat> nm starts its own bind?
[03:47] <Lathiat> maybe my system was starting a global bind too....
[03:47] <thom> possibly so
[03:47] <Lathiat> right
[03:47] <Lathiat> so why does NM use bind
[03:47] <Lathiat> and not just resolvconf ?
[03:48] <bob2> 23:43:59           thom |  hunger: and no, nm directly controls bind, so something else would need aditional code
[03:48] <daniels> Lathiat: that was explained above
[03:48] <Lathiat> oh sorry *reads up*
[03:48] <Lathiat> ah i see
[03:49] <hunger> Is there a reason for not listing the NM applet in the applet list? Or did I just miss it?
[03:50] <Lathiat> its not an applet
[03:50] <Lathiat> its a nofication icon
[03:50] <Lathiat> (that confused me too, bad name)
[03:50] <hunger> Lathiat: nm-applet is no applet? Wow, nice!
[03:50] <Lathiat> hunger: so you run nm-applet directly, heh
[03:51] <hunger> Lathiat: So how do I get the notification icon?
[03:51] <Lathiat> hunger: run nma--applet
[03:51] <Lathiat> nm-applet, rather
[03:51] <hunger> Lathiat: There is no GUI way to do that?
[03:52] <Lathiat> alt+f2 nm-applet? :)
[03:52] <Lathiat> i think th eidea is it shoudl be started by your session
[03:52] <Lathiat> i added it to my session
[03:52] <hunger> Lathiat: I thought this was supposed to be simpler than editing /etc/network/interfaces.
[03:52] <tseng> i added it to mine
[03:52] <tseng> i am thinking i should change it to respawn in the session
[03:52] <tseng> the applet dies on dbus reload
[03:52] <Lathiat> hunger: dude
[03:52] <Lathiat> hunger: development
[03:52] <Lathiat> hunger: think, default breezy install -> in by default
[03:53] <hunger> Lathiat: Then add it;-)
[03:53] <Lathiat> :)
[03:53] <hunger> Lathiat: What about /etc/network/interfaces? Will that get replaced by NM?
[03:54] <Lathiat> well it doesnt exactly replace it
[03:54] <hunger> Lathiat: Or will we have two places to configure the network now?
[03:54] <Lathiat> it handles mobile networking
[03:54] <tseng> nm uses interfaces as a "hint"
[03:54] <Lathiat> for most people you probably wouldnt touch your interfaces file
[03:54] <Lathiat> others would *shrug*
[03:55] <hunger> Lathiat: That sucks... I'll never be able to figure out which config overwrites which!
[04:06] <bddebian> Heya
[04:20] <daniels> .win 39
[04:20] <Treenaks> 39?!!!
[04:20] <Treenaks> dude
[04:20] <tseng> i try to keep it under 20
[04:20] <Treenaks> I start closing windows when I'm >20
[04:21] <tseng> yep
[04:21] <Mithrandir> I've given up that
[04:21] <maswan> that's the reason why I run 3 clients
[04:21] <tseng> i merged some channels into the same window also
[04:21] <tseng> low traffic
[04:21] <maswan> I end up not reading the ones >20, usually
[04:22] <Mithrandir> maswan: M-a, dude, M-a :-)
[04:22] <maswan> Mithrandir: yes, but some are boring channels that I don't want to see all the time.
[04:22] <maswan> Mithrandir: especially work channels, when I'm supposed to be on vacation. ;)
[04:22] <Mithrandir> maswan: ignore activity in them, then
[04:23] <maswan> Mithrandir: well, I guess
[04:31] <terrex> repositories are too slowly for me today
[04:31] <terrex> terrex Is there any wikipage or anywhere see the agenda of the month for all teams?
[04:31] <terrex> terrex It's really nice to make an integration with evolution and make a "shared agenda" server, dont you think?
[04:38] <SleepyEye> Having trouble getting hands-off network based installation working.  Apt configuration failing.  Can anyone offer pointers/help?
[04:42] <carstenh> SleepyEye: only if you describe your problem :)
[04:42] <carstenh> .oO(is *-devel the right place for such questions?)
[04:43] <SleepyEye> I dunno, is it?  Came here because archived transcripts pointed me here.
[04:44] <ivoks> mako: thanks :)
[04:44] <mjg59> Kamion: That CD is good
[04:46] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  When Apt configuration happens I just get a failed message with "continue" highlighted.  Nothing other than fail indication on console 3 or 4 (don't recall which).
[04:47] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  No indication of why apt configuration failed.
[04:47] <mako> ivoks: no problem
[04:47] <carstenh> SleepyEye: can you please put your /etc/apt/sources.list on a webserver or on paste.debian.net?
[04:53] <bddebian> mjg59: Please don't take offense, but I am surprised to see you here.
[04:53] <mjg59> bddebian: Why?
[04:54] <bddebian> mjg59: I dunno, I just would have thought you would have been one of the Ubuntu "haters".
[04:54] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Ok, it's on paste.debian.net.  It's only one line because I'm using a local mirror of the archive.  I created the mirror using "debmirror".
[04:54] <mdke> lol
[04:54] <mjg59> bddebian: Why?
[04:54] <mjg59> bddebian: (I've been here since before Warty was released)
[04:54] <mdke> bddebian, he is a central dev for Ubuntu
[04:55] <dilinger> mjg59: "'cause you hate *everything*"
[04:55] <mjg59> Haha
[04:55] <^rob^> is there a list of all the accepted proposals for the Summer of Code for Ubuntu?
[04:56] <bob2> presumably people will be emailed about it
[04:56] <carstenh> SleepyEye: and the error apt gives you is?
[04:56] <bddebian> mjg59: Honestly I don't know.  I honestly don't mean it as an insult, I was just surprised.
[04:56] <ogra> AndyFitz, pingeling
[04:56] <daniels> dilinger: he only hates our freedom
[04:56] <bob2> daniels: and our burger kings
[04:56] <bddebian> mdke: I'm glad, I was just surprised for some reason.
[04:56] <AndyFitz> ogra, pongalong
[04:56] <daniels> bob2: no, stansted's burger kings.  or lack thereof.
[04:56] <mjg59> Damn them
[04:57] <mdke> hmm
[04:57] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Apt isn't giving me an error.  It's apt-setup during installation that's giving the error.
[04:57] <daniels> bob2: we don't have any burger kings, either, except in the international terminal of tulla.
[04:57] <mdke> who needs burger king when you have pret a manger
[04:57] <bob2> sometimes you don't want a 10 quid sandwich
[04:57] <bob2> tho sometimes you do
[04:57] <carstenh> SleepyEye: ok, just skip apt-setup
[04:57] <mjg59> mdke: When you have a hangover and no sleep, you want grease
[04:57] <mdke> bob2, burger king is not cheap either ;)
[04:57] <carstenh> SleepyEye: apt-get update works?
[04:58] <mjg59> Not sandwiches hand-made by virgins with gold-plated knives
[04:58] <mdke> lol
[04:58] <mdke> you can taste it tho
[04:58] <^rob^> burger king is just a Checkers wannabe
[04:58] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Yes, apt-get update works.  How do I skip apt-setup using a preseed installation (this is what I was hoping could be done)?
[04:59] <bddebian> The best hangover food is greasy/spicy Mexican food!!
[04:59] <mdke> curry
[04:59] <carstenh> SleepyEye: i try to avoid using the debian/ubuntu-installer and use debootstrap instead, sorry
[04:59] <bddebian> Too spicy.  That just makes ya burn the porcelin. :-)
[04:59] <daniels> mjg59: but they do make a wicked blt
[04:59] <daniels> mjg59: boots is a passable imitation
[05:00] <mjg59> Hngh.
[05:03] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  I'd be willing to try debstrap if it will do what I need.  Can you point me at a web site or documentation?
[05:04] <carstenh> SleepyEye: do you want to install one computer or more (maybe automatically)?
[05:04] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Many machines via network
[05:05] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Oh, yes, automatic
[05:05] <carstenh> SleepyEye: i don't think debootstrap is the right tool for this job
[05:06] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Bummer.  The weird thing is if I us interactive install, it works.
[05:07] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  I even used debconf-get-selections and copied the apt-setup preseed stuff it generated and the automated apt-setup failed in the same way.
[05:11] <carstenh> SleepyEye: i never used preseeding, maybe http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.i386/apcs01.html helpd you. i'm sorry i can't.
[05:11] <carstenh> s/helpd/helps/
[05:14] <SleepyEye> carstenh:  Yep...been there, done that.  Thanks for tryin anyway.  I guess I'll just keep playing around with it and searching the web.  Maybe I'll get lucky and stumble across something.
[05:14] <carstenh> i hope so :)
[05:16] <^rob^> if anyone is in the Southeast of the US, Checkers is the heart-clogging fast-food of choice for most fat people, the people who know fast food.
[05:17] <daniels> even worse than wendy's?
[05:17] <^rob^> daniels: by far
[05:17] <^rob^> you can get 2 1/2 lb burgers for $3.00
[05:17] <^rob^> with Bacon, Cheese, and Special Sauce
[05:17] <^rob^> mmmm...fattning
[05:18] <Kamion> meh, too late to investigate SleepyEye's problem
[05:18] <daniels> eh, that's not that big
[05:18] <^rob^> daniels: it is for $3.00
[05:18] <daniels> point
[05:18] <ogra> thom/mjg59, could you guys have a look at gnome power ? it has gconf keys for calling acpi scripts now ...
[05:19] <bob2> Kamion: he/she's in #ubuntu now
[05:19] <thom> ogra: if it can have arguments too, just have it call pmi
[05:19] <Kamion> I've used /msg
[05:19] <ogra> thom, that works with user rights ?
[05:20] <thom> aaahr
[05:20] <ogra> thom, redhat uses some suid magic afaik
[05:20] <thom> meh, k
[05:20] <thom> i'll look later
[05:20] <ogra> great, thanks
[05:21] <ogra> i'll have a handfull commandline options in the next version, to omit or modify stuff...
[05:21] <ogra> thom, i doubt we'll see it before breezy
[05:23] <pef_aw> hello
[05:28] <Riddell> infinity: do you know why kexi is dep-wait on libmysqlclient-dev when it build-deps on libmysqlclient12-dev
[05:40] <pitti> hello again
[05:41] <solomarv> hello
[05:41] <\sh> hey pitti
[05:41] <ogra> yo pitti 
[05:42] <SloMo> hi... anybody here interested in xmms-musepack and bmp-musepack packages for breezy? they are currently in backports/extras and seem to work fine there
[05:42] <solomarv> SloMo, what do you mean by "interested in"?
[05:43] <bob2> SloMo: are they in Debian?
[05:43] <SloMo> ehm, is someone interested to get them into breezy? would be the first user of libmpcdec which currently is in breezy
[05:43] <SloMo> bob2: no
[05:44] <\sh> SloMo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
[05:45] <SloMo> thanks
[05:54] <Kamion> yay, debootstrap successfully resolved a missing base system dependency
[05:55] <Kamion> boo, it exited 1 for no apparent reason (suspect that's the busybox sh bug reported in Debian)
[06:36] <mdz> morning
[06:36] <ogra> hey mdz 
[06:37] <mdz> daniels: I very nearly renamed it to autodetect_keyboard when I was messing with that code, but it seemed gratuitous, given that we can't actually autodetect anything
[06:37] <daniels> mdz: autoguess_keyboard?
[06:38] <mdz> daniels: infer_keyboard? ;-)
[06:41] <mvo> morning mdz 
[06:42] <daniels> mdz: unless you have any strong concerns with autodetect, i think it's best we leave it there for consistency
[06:42] <ogra> mvo, will we have to live with the ugly fading in gksudo ? 
[06:42] <mdz> daniels: I have no strong feelings about it
[06:42] <mvo> ogra: don't know. it's a upstream thing. we can remove it again
[06:43] <daniels> mdz: word
[06:43] <ogra> mvo, would be nice... but we'd have to discuss it in a bigger round i guess
[06:43] <ogra> meh, ffmpeg compiled....
[06:43] <ogra> with gcc-2.95 :(
[06:44] <bddebian> Heh
[06:44] <daniels> guten nacht
[06:45] <ogra> bddebian, its not really funny.... i have a bug open and cant compile it at all...only gcc-2.95 seems to work .... the fun stuff is, thi only happens on i386
[06:45] <ogra> daniels, schlaf gut
[06:45] <mvo> daniels: gute nach! (did you had german leasons at linuxtag?)
[06:45] <bddebian> ogra: Oh, :-(
[06:45] <ogra> mvo, +t ;)
[06:48] <mdz> daniels: regarding those bugs I filed about the preseed-for-reconfiguration stuff, those were all filed after my changes (and therefore are still valid)
[06:48] <pitti> daniels: Gutte Nacht
[06:48] <mdz> daniels: I think the culprit is all that weird-ass "auto_answer" stuff
[06:48] <ogra> mdz, we still should talk about edubuntu live vs install CD, poor performance doesnt outweight the promotional benefits in my eyes, i'm not convinced yet :)
[06:48] <ogra> mdz, indeed your word counts in the end :)
[06:49] <bddebian> ogra: What fails?
[06:49] <ivoks> wierd gksudo, really wierd :(
[06:49] <ogra> bddebian, ffmpeg ? 
[06:50] <bddebian> ogra: Whatever isn't compiling, yes
[06:50] <ivoks> gksudo in gnome doesn't read /etc/sudoers like it should :/
[06:51] <ogra> bddebian, assembler errors, gcc-4.0 is more strict about the code....
[06:51] <ivoks> ogra: uberstrict would be better to say :)
[06:51] <bddebian> Heh
[06:51] <ogra> heh
[06:51] <bddebian> But it won't build with gcc-3.4 either?
[06:51] <elmo> pitti: nothing to sync
[06:52] <ogra> bddebian, nope
[06:52] <ogra> bddebian,  error: PIC register '%ebx' clobbered in 'asm'
[06:52] <bddebian> eeks
[06:52] <pitti> elmo: ah, sorry, it's still in incoming, I guess. I just read the closed bug report
[06:52] <ogra> i knoe the error, i know the solution, but i dont know enough assembler to fix the code :(
[06:53] <mvo> ivoks: gksudo is just a frontend to sudo. it execute it 
[06:53] <ivoks> mvo: but, gksudo -S /some/app works fine
[06:53] <ivoks> mvo: but if executed from menu, it asks for password
[06:53] <ivoks> mvo: despite NOPASSWD in sudoers
[06:53] <ivoks> that's wierd
[06:53] <mvo> ivoks: do you run breezy? or hoary?
[06:54] <ivoks> breezy
[06:54] <ivoks> first I tought my .desktop was broken, but no...
[06:57] <ivoks> same think if you put xterm -e gksudo /some/app
[06:57] <ivoks> thing
[06:58] <thom> pitti: how's bzr working out for you with pmount?
[06:59] <pitti> thom: many features are still missing (like branch, but that's supposed to work now in bzr head)
[06:59] <pitti> thom: but for pmount's size it works quite well
[06:59] <pitti> thom: I wouldn't entrust it my postgresql stuff yet, though
[06:59] <mdz> ogra: you'll be in London this weekend, yes?
[06:59] <ogra> mdz, yep
[06:59] <mdz> we can talk about it then
[06:59] <ogra> mdz, you come ?
[06:59] <mdz> ogra: yes
[07:00] <ogra> hooray :) really looking forward to it then :)
[07:00] <fabbione> hey mdz
[07:00] <thom> pitti: right
[07:00] <thom> i was pondering it for acpi-support
[07:00] <thom> which should be fine
[07:01] <pitti> thom: I really need branch handling for postgres, but not for pmount, so testing it on pmount is fine for me
[07:01] <pitti> thom: currently I emulate the "push" command with a small shell wrapper which calls rsync after commit
[07:01] <thom> right
[07:01] <thom> ok, i'll have a look and see how it goes
[07:01] <pitti> I hope that push and hooks will be integrated soon 
[07:03] <daniels> mdz: auto_answer is f**king crack
[07:03] <mdz> daniels: yes, let's kill it
[07:03] <mvo> ivoks: please file a bug and assign it to me (michael.vogt@ubuntu.com) with a description how it can be reproduced
[07:03] <ivoks> mvo: ok
[07:04] <mvo> ivoks: thanks
[07:04] <daniels> mdz: not tonight I won't
[07:05] <bddebian> ogra: Are you using the source from Debian or is it in the archive?
[07:06] <ogra> bddebian, from debian, there was a new version yesterday...
[07:06] <bddebian> Oh :-(
[07:07] <ogra> it fixes amd64 and ppc builds with gcc-4.0 (i had to patch the last source) but not the i386 prob
[07:26] <thom> hrm, how come we have no bzr packageS?
[07:26] <mdz> thom: FTBFS last I checked
[07:27] <mdz> now it's failing in a different way
[07:27] <mdz> thom,bob2: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/bzr/0.0.5-2/bzr_0.0.5-2_20050622-0954-i386-failed.gz
[07:28] <bob2> bah
[07:28] <bob2> missing build-dep on python2.3-dev
[07:28] <ogra> 2.3 ?
[07:29] <mdz> ogra: Debian
[07:29] <tseng> ogra: looks like it uses both
[07:29] <ogra> ah, ok
[07:30] <ogra> mdz, what about moving gnome-power to main ? any objections from your side ? (it has no universe dependencys)
[07:31] <mdz> ogra: have you done an inclusion report for it?
[07:31] <ogra> mdz, not yet
[07:31] <ogra> doing it now
[07:33] <ddaa> Hey, do you know where I can put a hook on Yann Dirson? Does he IRC?
[07:37] <thom> mdz: ah, k
[07:38] <bddebian> So bzr needs to be updated to depend python 2.4 instead of 2.3?
[07:38] <tseng> bddebian: no
[07:38] <thom> bddebian: no, it uses both
[07:38] <bddebian> Oh
[07:38] <bddebian> Sorry, I'm on a Winblows machine so the output is a little unreadable.. :-(
[07:42] <RzR> hi
[07:42] <RzR> how to add packages to ubuntu
[07:42] <bddebian> Hello RzR
[07:42] <RzR> I mean submit new software
[07:43] <bddebian> RzR: Put it on the NewPackages wiki page
[07:43] <mdz> RzR: the best way is to talk to the MOTU team (they hang out on #ubuntu-motu)
[07:43] <daniels> or get it into debian first, and watch it filter through
[07:43] <RzR> i tried to put connect in debian .. but pple are to busy for it 
[07:43] <daniels> which is probably the best option
[07:43] <RzR> see http://rzr.online.fr/q/Proxy
[07:47] <RzR> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//NewPackages ?
[07:48] <bddebian> RzR: Sorry, here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages  I think
[07:53] <thom> mjg59: acpi-support is now in bzr; http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/bzr/acpi-support/
[08:06] <rade> hello everyone, first, does anyone know why when i install the kernel source with synaptic, it just puts a tarball into /usr/src and doesn't even make a link to it in /lib/modules/? second, why i don't have irq_vectors.h in /include/asm in my kernal source directory? i don#t even have an asm directory, just asm-*
[08:07] <daniels> rade: a) this is more of an #ubuntu question, b) linux-headers-* will probably satisfy your concerns better
[08:08] <dholbach> re
[08:09] <rade> daniels: thanks, but i've already spent a while chatting in #ubuntu, and still no luck... i installed the headers as well, but they're not in my kernel source directory, but in linux-headers-*
[08:10] <daniels> it seems you're sort of missing the point about how linux-headers-* works
[08:14] <lamont__> rdade: have you looked at /usr/share/doc/linux-source-2.6.10/README.gz
[08:14] <lamont__> ?
[08:15] <lamont__> linux-source includes the full source for a kernel, linux-headers is just what you need to build modules - see /lib/modules/*/build
[08:17] <lamont__> that is, if you're building a kernel, you want linux-source-<vers>, if you are building modules, you want linux-headers-<vers>
[08:18] <lamont__> but like daniels said, that's more of a #ubuntu issue (clarifying the existing situation), than #ubuntu-devel (which would be a place to discuss your proposed changes to fix a bug you've found)
[08:19] <madduck> is martin pitt here?
[08:19] <tseng> madduck: no.
[08:20] <madduck> mh, anyone else involved with ubuntu-cve?
[08:20] <tseng> Nafallo, a bit
[08:20] <madduck> Nafallo: ping?
[08:21] <madduck> who is Nafallo ? real name, i mean...
[08:21] <Nafallo> madduck: pong :-)
[08:21] <Nafallo> madduck: Christian Bjlevik :-)
[08:21] <madduck> Nafallo: so, debian security is up shitcreek without a paddle, and i just saw ubuntu-cve
[08:21] <madduck> that should be pretty easy to amend to debian stable, right?
[08:24] <Nafallo> madduck: some of them sure could. for the moment my view is that only ubuntu's main has proper security-updates. but sure. you might aswell dig in and take those who are done :-).
[08:24] <Nafallo> even for universe/multiverse
[08:24] <madduck> Nafallo: for the moment, i only want an overview.
[08:24] <madduck> i don't have any time, but noone else seems to be doing anything.
[08:24] <madduck> do i have to start delegating.
[08:25] <madduck> s/do/so/
[08:25] <Kamion> pitti said earlier today that he'd sent mail volunteering to help out
[08:25] <madduck> Kamion: excellent.
[08:27] <Nafallo> madduck: it's probably best to find pitti. he's the one that often has an overview on things :-).
[08:27] <madduck> but he's not coming back till tomorrow?
[08:28] <Nafallo> dunno, I've just come back myself :-). but... there is always e-mail ;-).
[08:28] <madduck> mpitt@ubuntu.com ?
[08:28] <madduck> and he *is* german, right?
[08:28] <Nafallo> martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[08:28] <Nafallo> yepp, german :-)
[08:34] <rade> does anyone here know where hub.h is supposed to be? which package it's in?
[08:36] <dholbach> use dlocate or apt-file
[08:37] <dholbach> or packages.ubuntu.com
[08:38] <madduck> Nafallo: mh, don't tell everyone (outside this channel), but it seems that things are already under control.
[08:39] <Nafallo> madduck: oki :-). not even my girlfriend? ;-)
[08:40] <madduck> Nafallo: of course not. She's a spy, didn't you know?
[08:41] <madduck> when is the next tech board meeting?
[08:41] <madduck> ah. Tuesday 28 June 2005 at 2000 UTC
[08:41] <Nafallo> hehe...
[08:41] <madduck> shit. shit. shit. shit.
[08:41] <madduck> i've been invited four times now, and four times *something* just came in between.
[08:42] <madduck> nobody will ever forgive me.
[08:42] <bddebian> Heh. Heya madduck
[08:43] <madduck> howdy. you are quoted in my book. :)
[08:43] <dholbach> madduck: do you mean technical board or community council meeting?
[08:43] <madduck> tech board
[08:43] <mdke> he wants TB
[08:43] <dholbach> ok
[08:44] <madduck> i am writing an apologetic email to pitti now.
[08:44] <madduck> or is there a tech board list?
[08:44] <ogra> madduck, you want to unite debian and ubuntu so your second name is sysyphus ? 
[08:44] <mdke> you can write to the -devel list and link to it on the Tech Board agenda maybe?
[08:45] <madduck> ogra: rotfl.
[08:45] <mdke> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[08:45] <madduck> mdke: it's not of everyone's concern really.
[08:45] <bddebian> madduck: Yeah, you told me.  That's frightening. :-)
[08:45] <madduck> i'll just tell pitti and let him do what he wants with it.
[08:45] <madduck> bddebian: and it's a good quote too. :)
[08:45] <bddebian> madduck: When is the book going to be finished?
[08:46] <madduck> it's done. http://debiansystem.info
[08:46] <madduck> availability: http://debiansystem.info/order
[08:47] <bddebian> madduck: Sweet, I'm ordering!!
[08:49] <madduck> Cool. Watch out though since I don't know about shipping costs if you order in Europe.
[08:49] <madduck> I have inquiries going, so I'll update those pages. 
[08:49] <madduck> Maybe you want to subscribe to the RSS feed or mailinglist?
[08:49] <bddebian> NP, I don't mind paying
[08:50] <madduck> let me know how much it totals, okay?
[08:50] <bddebian> Sure
[08:52] <bddebian> madduck: That link says Amazon has it but I don't see it on Amazon.. :-(
[08:52] <madduck> because you are on amazon.com, not amazon.de
[08:53] <madduck> amazon.com does not have it yet because they are fucking assholes.
[08:53] <madduck> so far, all american publishers are totally incapable of working with overseas publishers.
[08:54] <bddebian> :-(
[08:54] <bddebian> I'll get it from bookzilla then
[08:54] <mgalvin> hi madduck, congrats on the book rolling out :), can't wait to grab a copy when it comes to the US, seems like i have to wait a bit though :(
[08:55] <madduck> bddebian: i can order it for you though if you are willing to go for an experiment, and you'd entrust your credit card number to me for this transaction.
[08:55] <madduck> mgalvin: yeah, and it SUCKS and i went around and kicked and screamed at everything i could find,.
[08:56] <madduck> mgalvin: bug your book store, send me a mail as if we hadn't met and ask impatiently, then i'll forward that to the publisher to make sure they know that demand exists.
[08:56] <ogra> bddebian, oh, yes, post it right here :_P
[08:56] <bddebian> 1234-56-... ;-P
[08:56] <ogra> heh
[08:56] <madduck> ogra: i would give my credit card to bddebian for such a transaction, btw.
[08:56] <bddebian> madduck: Ack, bookzilla is in German
[08:57] <mgalvin> madduck, i certainly will do
[08:57] <ogra> madduck, i wouldnt give it to anyone through the net...
[08:57] <madduck> the publisher has a fucked up policy: 45 days of demand assessment. fuck them. we sold 1500 copies in three days!
[08:57] <ogra> (call me paranoid)
[08:57] <dholbach> bookzilla ROCKS
[08:57] <madduck> ogra: sure, but i know bddebian, albeit virtually, for a while now, and there is encryption.
[08:57] <bddebian> madduck: I'll send it signed once I get home maybe
[08:57] <madduck> bddebian: ecnrypted.
[08:57] <bddebian> Aye
[08:58] <ogra> madduck, true, i forgot about gpg...
[08:58] <madduck> ogra: DOH!. :)
[08:58] <bddebian> Hell Citibank probably already got the number out there somewhere anyway.. ;-)
[08:58] <madduck> rotfl
[08:58] <ogra> madduck, like i forget that my car has a cludge, but i switch gears anyway ;)
[08:58] <bddebian> cludge?? Hahaha
[08:59] <bddebian> Sorry, don't mean to laugh, that just seemed freudian
[08:59] <ogra> bddebian, european cars have such things :)
[08:59] <bddebian> clutch
[08:59] <ogra> ch ?
[09:00] <bddebian> Aye
[09:00] <ogra> whoops
[09:00] <bddebian> :-)
[09:00] <ogra> i have to work on my vocabulary...
[09:00] <bddebian> Nah
[09:00] <ogra> sure
[09:01] <bddebian> You work on your vocab, I'll work on getting a brain to try to help out.. :-)
[09:14] <dholbach> brb
[09:16] <mxpxpod> is there something for ubuntu that will allow users to plug in an ethernet cable and if there's a dhcp server around, it will "Just Work"?
[09:16] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: network-manager
[09:16] <Mithrandir> mxpxpod: ifplugd?
[09:17] <mxpxpod> Nafallo: does nm work?
[09:17] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: for me it does ;-)
[09:17] <mxpxpod> Nafallo: breezy?
[09:19] <thom> mxpxpod: yes
[09:20] <mxpxpod> ok, how stable is breezy?
[09:20] <thom> works fine here
[09:21] <mxpxpod> thom: oh, I have a cool addition to pmi
[09:21] <thom> um?
[09:22] <mxpxpod> thom: I modified it to work with both pmud and pbbuttonsd
[09:23] <thom> not particularly interesting, tbh, but sure, send the patch
[09:23] <mxpxpod> that way people don't have to have pbbuttonsd installed since the newest versions seem to like to lock up
[09:24] <thom> in ubuntu we'll always have pbbuttonsd installed until hal can do the job, or unless lots of "pbbuttonsd locks up and eats my laptop" bugs get filed
[09:25] <mxpxpod> ok
[09:25] <mxpxpod> well, here's the thing
[09:25] <mxpxpod> pbbuttons 0.6.6 (what's in ubuntu) doesn't work well with 2.6.12 and 0.6.10 locks up all the time
[09:27] <mxpxpod> thom: oh, also... pbbuttonsd and pmud need to start up before gdm starts
[09:29] <thom> i see precisely zero bugs to that effect
[09:29] <mxpxpod> because if pbbuttonsd isn't started up before gdm, you don't get the suspend menu item in the gnome logout menu
[09:30] <mxpxpod> s/logout menu/logout dialog/
[09:30] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: what thom means is that you should file a bug about it, not complain here :-).
[09:30] <mxpxpod> ahhhh
[09:30] <mxpxpod> sorry
[09:31] <thom> not being psychic, if you're seeing crashes and hangs and don't tell anyone, we can't do much to fix it
[09:31] <mxpxpod> :)
[09:31] <mxpxpod> I need to upgrade to breezy one of these days as well so I can start testing some of the new stuff like gnome-power
[09:31] <ogra> yes, bugzilla is underestimated in te user world :)
[09:32] <ogra> mxpxpod, gnome-power is no fun yet... we need to integrate it more... but i'm happy about every bug i get ;)
[09:32] <uniq> in the installer - is there a keyboard shortcut to jump to the list of tasks? 
[09:32] <Nafallo> ogra: baah, I already use malone for everything ;-)
[09:32] <mxpxpod> ogra: I'm actually pretty excited about gnome-power
[09:32] <mxpxpod> Nafallo: malone?
[09:32] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: launchpad.ubuntu.com
[09:33] <ogra> mxpxpod, it will rock if it is nicely playing with pmi :) and with dpms etc....
[09:33] <ogra> mxpxpod, but that will still take its time :)
[09:34] <mxpxpod> ogra: well, of course
[09:34] <ogra> but go ahead, be my guineapig *g*
[09:35] <mxpxpod> I'm kind of nervous to go to breezy since I have my laptop set up pretty much how I like it, but in order to file bugs against it...
[09:40] <mxpxpod> thom: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12198
[09:41] <thom> mxpxpod: i don't care about that; i still see no bug about pbb crashing or hanging
[09:41] <mxpxpod> thom: I'll install breezy this week and test it out, ok?
[09:41] <thom> thanks
[09:41] <mxpxpod> no problem
[09:49] <elmo> would it be completely crackful to suggest sudo is either essential: yes or depended on by something like base-files?
[09:51] <siretart> elmo: ah, good to see you here. I'd like to allow all uploaders for universe to upload to revu. could you give me a copy of the universe uploaders keyring?
[09:52] <dholbach> *advertise* http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ :)
[09:53] <siretart> :)
[09:58] <elmo> siretart: people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/upload-keys.gpg
[09:59] <siretart> elmo: thank you very much :)
[10:01] <ogra> seb128, any idea why evo always opens a second instance if i click a mailto link ?
[10:05] <Mez> elmo ping
[10:12] <tseng> mako: was that a happy hacking keyboard that you had plugged into your laptop?
[10:15] <GheRivero> if a package is taken as it is from debian, who is the ubuntu "maintainer" for it?
[10:17] <ogra> GheRivero, depends, if its universe then MOTU
[10:18] <GheRivero> main
[10:18] <ogra> GheRivero, which means we have no personalized packages
[10:18] <ogra> GheRivero, which package in main ?
[10:18] <GheRivero> acl
[10:19] <ogra> GheRivero, thats the main team... no special maintainer here
[10:19] <GheRivero> ok, thanks, i will try
[10:20] <ogra> GheRivero, you can look it up on breezy-changes, if nobody touched it, its the whole team, else poke the last uploader, he will at least know who works mainly on it
[10:20] <ogra> GheRivero, is anythig broken in acl ?
[10:21] <GheRivero> no, nothing, i'm just working on nfsv4 support and there are a couple of patches that i will like to discuss to include them on breezy
[10:22] <ogra> GheRivero, afaik nfsv4 is already brought in by jbailey 
[10:22] <ogra> GheRivero, so you should talk to him
[10:23] <jbailey> jbailey: I don't think I've done anything with nfsv4.  The only bits I've touched were initramfs related.
[10:23] <ogra> jbailey, there is not much to scroll :)
[10:24] <jbailey> Well, I was trying to pfind a package name. =)
[10:24] <ogra> acl
[10:24] <GheRivero> acl for the moment... a couple more in the following days...
[10:24] <bddebian> Jeff!
[10:24] <jbailey> Hi Barry.
[10:25] <seb128> ogra: no
[10:25] <ogra> seb128, thnks
[10:25] <seb128> ogra: it should open a composer window
[10:26] <ogra> seb128, it does, but with a second instance of evo
[10:27] <ogra> which is kinda odd with about 70000 mails :) (takes quite a while to start and close)
[10:27] <seb128> what have you configured with the preferred applications capplet?
[10:27] <seb128> hum
[10:28] <ogra> seb128, nothing iirc... let me look
[10:28] <ogra> seb128, evo is selected in the top pulldown 
[10:29] <ogra> so its default i guess
[10:29] <seb128> maybe restart evo
[10:29] <seb128> the detection of the running instance may be screwed somewhere
[10:30] <ogra> yep, might be... as i said, takes a while to close :)
[10:31] <Treenaks> ogra: does gnome-power handle smart batteries yet?
[10:31] <ogra> Treenaks, gnome-power only handles what hal sees
[10:32] <Treenaks> ogra: ok.. so no :)
[10:32] <bddebian> jbailey: Do you have a Hurd box at all?
[10:32] <ogra> Treenaks, but hugsie told me he wants to introduce it
[10:32] <Treenaks> ogra: hug him for me ;)
[10:32] <jbailey> bddebian: My laptop might still have a Hurd partition on it.
[10:32] <ogra> Treenaks, so it will go in eventually, but i dounbt it will be before breezy
[10:32] <bddebian> Bah. :-)
[10:34] <ogra> seb128, works now, thanks
[10:34] <seb128> np
[10:36] <lamont__> jbailey: that's a correctable affliction, you know... :-)
[10:36] <Treenaks> ogra: should gnome-power-daemon display an icon or something?
[10:37] <ogra> Treenaks, gnome-power-manager should run in your session, you can enable the trayicon in the settings
[10:37] <Treenaks> ogra: coolness
[10:37] <ogra> (found in System->Settings)
[10:37] <Treenaks> ogra: I ran it command-line ;)
[10:38] <ogra> yep gnome-power is quite cool, but still needs some integration love :)
[10:38] <jbailey> lamont__: True.  The install on there has certainly decayed in the year or two since I've used it.
[10:38] <jbailey> I think I showed it off to someone last in Oslo.
[10:38] <bddebian> ??
[10:39] <thom> ogra: presumably the applet will be on by default?
[10:40] <ogra> thom, i wanted to either write a little script that calls pmi query or add it through laptop mode to the user session if possible
[10:40] <thom> ogra: see my comment on the main proposal
[10:41] <seb128> lamont__: around?
[10:41] <ogra> thom, ah yes, you are right....
[10:41] <lamont__> seb128: yeah
[10:42] <seb128> lamont__: what would that take to get a debug archive? have you read pitti's spec about changes for such stuff?
[10:43] <seb128> lamont__: getting debug backtraces is like 50% of the bug triage action, tackling that would rock
[10:43] <lamont__> seb128: truthfully haven't read the spec yet... adding another suite to the pile is trivial from the buildd's perspective
[10:43] <lifeless> morning all
[10:43] <thom> ogra: i think a mittelweg is required; if you just have UPS/mouse/... then perhaps just do notifications for battery full, low etc
[10:44] <bddebian> Hello lifeless
[10:44] <ogra> thom, by default it only does notification, no icon is shown
[10:44] <thom> ok
[10:44] <ogra> thom, probably the laptop-mode/pmi query could switch on the battery icon then :)
[10:45] <thom> yeah
[10:45] <thom> (laptop-mode is the correct test)
[10:45] <ogra> yeah... and the icon is switched on in gconf...
[10:45] <ogra> easy, hehe
[10:45] <lamont__> seb128: personally, I lean to just dropping them in the .changes file and having the archive scripts automatically drop them wherever (as in, probably not somewhere mirrored).  But then, that just reduces the work that Kinnison/I have to do in modifying the build process, and heaps it on elmo/launchpad and the archive instead.
[10:46] <lamont__> so I'm not sure it's really what we want to do from a practical standpoint
[10:46] <ogra> thom, did you check the right click options ? i think we should disable them...
[10:46] <sivang> seb128: hi, any news about lp integration ?
[10:47] <ogra> thom, since they double the logout dialog
[10:47] <seb128> sivang: jamesh has done a bunch of work (the python picker) and should have a look on how easy it would be to patch gtkuimanager
[10:48] <sivang> seb128: ok, so is it going to be only patching gtkui manager?
[10:49] <seb128> lamont__: k, so somebody would just have to modify dpkg/dh_strip to make a dbg listed by the .changes basically and then the other changes should be easy
[10:49] <seb128> sivang: other are not really used
[10:50] <sivang> seb128: eh I see, others are basically hand patching since are using glade/glade xml files right?
[10:51] <seb128> not only glade files, that's listed on the wiki
[10:51] <seb128> there is 5 methods, gtkuimanager is 1
[10:51] <seb128> glade is 1
[10:51] <sivang> seb128: ok
[10:53] <lamont__> seb128: iz pretty much what pitti proposes
[10:53] <lamont__> I think
[10:53] <seb128> lamont__: yeah, that's the idea of the spec
[10:53] <seb128> just making sure that's alright since nobody has commentend on the spec
[10:53] <sivang> seb128: so , there's need to also patch BonnoboUI and gtkItemFactory as per centerlized patching ?
[10:54] <seb128> no
[10:54] <seb128> patching 2-3 apps is faster
[10:55] <ogra> hey hughsie !!
[10:55] <sivang> seb128: ok cool, should I talk with jamesh for further work or just start patching the ones not under the catagory of uimanager?
[10:55] <hughsie> ogra: hey!
[10:56] <ogra> great, finally we meet 
[10:56] <seb128> sivang: let ping jamesh first
[10:56] <hughsie> ogra: Sweet. Give me lots of lovely feedback
[10:56] <ogra> hughsie, i already have a bug report for you.... in the schema file, there is an integer instead of int
[10:57] <hughsie> ogra: fixed in cvs
[10:57] <sivang> seb128: ok, do you recall what is his timezone?
[10:57] <hughsie> or are you using cvs?
[10:57] <ogra> ah, ok... i took the 0.0.5 package this time
[10:57] <hughsie> ogra: yes, sorry, a bug :-)
[10:58] <ogra> hughsie, so that explains why the --no-actions doesnt work for me yet ? 
[10:58] <hughsie> yup: sorry!
[10:58] <ogra> n problem :) 
[10:58] <ogra> no even
[10:59] <hughsie> I'll do a 0.0.6 soon - theres a few other bugs for ppl with multiple batteries (that icouldn;t test)
[10:59] <ogra> i expect to do more packages before breezy :) i just thought sticking with the release would be better for a sane version number
[10:59] <hughsie> and also I've renamed/reorgansied the fires a bit
[10:59] <ogra> yep, i saw you dropped the icons dir
[10:59] <hughsie> ogra: can you do 0.0.5 + cvs?
[10:59] <hughsie> and lots more:
[11:00] <hughsie> now all prefixed gpm- except the system stuff
[11:00] <ogra> sure, but i can also wait for 0.0.6 i'm not in a hurry
[11:00] <hughsie> ogra, how's this week?
[11:00] <hughsie> let me get some feedback on the latest changes in cvs, and I'll make a release
[11:01] <ogra> hughsie, rather next, i'm preparing for a summit on the weekend.... and have to sort my flight to london etc....
[11:01] <hughsie> no problem. I'm a bit busy too, I'm moving house this weekend. Got any ubuntu (or general) comments?
[11:01] <lamont__> seb128: actually paying attention to the spec is on Kinnison's list for july
[11:02] <ogra> hughsie, a lot excited users in here ;) Treenaks, mxpxpod to name two.... btw, do you have an ETA for smart battery support in HAL ? Treenaks would be very interested
[11:02] <seb128> lamont__: cool. Still I'm trying to push that so we can get it working soon
[11:03] <hughsie> ogra, got a smart battery specification? HAL's very easy to hack on - it's just f you don;t have the hardware it's a bugger to test!
[11:04] <ogra> hughsie, i know how easy HAL is, i learned most of it with your acpi patches ;) 
[11:04] <hughsie> ogra: don't trust my code, I'm a beginner!
[11:04] <hughsie> Getting better every day
[11:05] <ogra> hughsie, my code (based on yours) was good enough to get accepted in our HAL by the reviewers ;)
[11:05] <hughsie> ahh, i see :-)
[11:05] <ogra> and its not easy to pass a review from pitti :)
[11:06] <hughsie> got any comments about the code in g-p-m? 
[11:06] <ogra> nope, not yet
[11:06] <hughsie> I've learnt glib/gtk/gnome in about 4 months and so I'm sure i do stupid things
[11:06] <sivang> ogra, hughsie : I can also support that, it's hard to pass pitti's review on the 3rd time even :-)
[11:06] <ogra> hughsie, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportGnomePower
[11:06] <hughsie> thanks guys, apreciated
[11:06] <ogra> hughsie, but we will ship it in october :)
[11:07] <hughsie> ogra: then efforts must double
[11:08] <ogra> hughsie, its pretty easy to integrate, since we already have the backend and several detection mechanisms... its perfect as it is already...
[11:08] <hughsie> (blasphemy mode) I use fedora, so is there anything (other than the new gconf stuff) that I can do to better suit ubuntu?
[11:09] <ogra> hughsie, the messaging stuff should get sorted.... thats my main concern curently... how do you plan it for RH ?
[11:09] <hughsie> the DBUS stuff, yes, that's on my todo
[11:09] <ogra> mvo, a big big thank you for ffmpeg help 
[11:09] <ogra> hughsie, great :)
[11:09] <hughsie> whats the ubuntu take on the services issue.? DBUS daemon rather than init.d daemon
[11:10] <ogra> we have a session daemon running
[11:10] <ogra> hughsie, so everything should happen in the user session
[11:10] <hughsie> at the moment, yes.
[11:10] <hughsie> but there's the debate about what happend at the gdm login screen
[11:11] <ogra> but we could even wave it in to dbus' startup script
[11:11] <hughsie> sure, that would be ace
[11:11] <ogra> like network-manager for example
[11:12] <ogra> i have to look at the NM code but it should be easy to implement...
[11:12] <hughsie> Sure, thanks.
[11:13] <hughsie> Okay, if you guys come up with any patches ideas etc, then please email me, or join the list:
[11:13] <ogra> hughsie, ah, and i agree, the powermanagement stuff should get dropped from xscreensaver.... i think i'll add a button there to run your preferences
[11:14] <hughsie> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnome-power-devel
[11:14] <hughsie> ogra: yes, agreed, but my screensaver timeout does nothing at the moment, other than setting a gconf value!
[11:15] <hughsie> I'm pretty receptive to new ideas and stuff, so I welcome patches!
[11:15] <ogra> hughsie, ok, i'll look what i can do... unfortunately i havent the time before breezy to add gconf to xscreensaver which would be the best to do
[11:16] <ogra> (and is on my list since quite some time)
[11:16] <Nafallo> ogra: breezy+1 ;-)
[11:16] <ogra> yeah
[11:16] <hughsie> No problem, nice one
[11:17] <ogra> and gdm integration love for the lock screen ... vuntz will do that for us in breezy+1 (hopefully)
[11:17] <hughsie> I need to get the DBUS interface sorted, i.e. so totem can tell g-p-m not to click in the screensaver when watching a video fullscreen.
[11:17] <ogra> yeah
[11:17] <hughsie> and we can do a (I'mAboutToSuspend) warning for applications
[11:18] <ogra> great !
[11:18] <mako> tseng: yes
[11:19] <mako> tseng: it was a happy hacking lite2 USB
[11:19] <mako> tseng: it has half-height arrow keys which was controversial but important
[11:19] <mako> and these days, usb works anywhere so it's all you really need
[11:19] <mako> tseng: it's not cheap but i would recommend it highly.. i am traveling with mine now
[11:19] <hughsie> ogra: gpm and lock? I hadn;t thought of that
[11:20] <mxpxpod> mako: what's that?
[11:21] <ogra> hughsie, i hacked the lock screen for the last version... but jwz started to change the code, included his own xpm functions etc, so its a PITA to patch it again...
[11:21] <ogra> hughsie, and i'm not after doing it a third time :) so a final solution should be found, gdm just seems right
[11:21] <hughsie> ogra: good for me.
[11:22] <mako> mxpxpod: google for it.. it's a suprising small full-sized unix friendly keyboard
[11:22] <hughsie> I want to get the dbus api fleshed out this month, so make sure you pipe up!
[11:22] <ogra> i will :)
[11:22] <mako> mxpxpod: it's good for posture on laptops if the whole bending over thingg doesn't do it fo ryou
[11:24] <hughsie> ogra: do you kow about the http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gnome-power/gnome-power_0.0.5-1.diff.gz ?
[11:24] <hughsie> any of that belong upstreeam?
[11:25] <mxpxpod> ogra: is gnome-power in ubuntu hooked up to pmi?
[11:25] <ogra> hughsie, thats my package 
[11:25] <ogra> mxpxpod, not yet
[11:25] <hughsie> ogra: oops :-)#
[11:25] <ogra> mxpxpod, we're working on that
[11:25] <mxpxpod> ogra: oh, right
[11:25] <ogra> hughsie, fresh from this afternoon :)
[11:26] <hughsie> sorry guys, what's pmi? is that the ubuntu power stuff?
[11:26] <mxpxpod> hughsie: power management interface
[11:27] <hughsie> gotcha, googled
[11:27] <ogra> hughsie, as i mailer pmi suspend and pmi hibernate :)
[11:27] <hughsie> ahh yes. cool.
[11:27] <ogra> hughsie, as well as pmi query
[11:27] <tseng> mako: man yeah im really tempted
[11:27] <ogra> which gives you the enabled capabilities
[11:27] <tseng> mako: what about no home/end/pgup/down?
[11:27] <tseng> mako: i think i might miss those
[11:28] <hughsie> (phone)
[11:29] <hughsie> ogra: so does any of the debian bits belong upstream?
[11:29] <ogra> hughsie, only the integer fix you already did
[11:29] <mxpxpod> ogra: will gnome-power still need pbbuttonsd? or will it totally control powermanagement?
[11:30] <mxpxpod> also, will it control cpu scaling?
[11:30] <ogra> hughsie, and thanks for pointing me to it, i forgot to rip out the uuencoded icon i had added for the last cvs version :)
[11:30] <hughsie> mxpxpod: not cpu scaling, thats on the todo, but I want to get the battery stuff don first
[11:31] <mxpxpod> ah, cool
[11:31] <mxpxpod> alright, I'm going to go download breezy... I'll talk to you guys later tonight
[11:31] <ogra> mxpxpod, cpu scaling is done by powernowd automatically, i doubt we'll change that
[11:31] <ogra> hrm
[11:31] <Burgundavia> ogra, did you need help with bugday?
[11:31] <shaya> ogra: powernowd dies after hibernation
[11:31] <ogra> shaya, on hoary ?
[11:31] <shaya> it keeps machine in slow state always until stopped and restarted
[11:31] <shaya> breezy at least
[11:32] <ogra> shaya, bug # ?
[11:32] <ogra> Burgundavia, sorry, i was very busy with other stuff today
[11:32] <Burgundavia> ogra, np
[11:33] <hughsie> ogra: gnome-power-manager.sgml is that a man page?
[11:33] <ogra> Burgundavia, but indeed we need every helping hand, especially form people who know bugzilla as good as you do ;)
[11:33] <Burgundavia> ogra, ok
[11:33] <ogra> hughsie, yep
[11:33] <ogra> hughsie, but it needs an update
[11:33] <shaya> bugzilla search isn't working
[11:33] <shaya> but I'm pretty sure I filed a bug
[11:33] <ogra> hughsie, i'll mail you the next version if you want it
[11:33] <shaya> hibernation also breaks vmware as ifconfig down's vmware virtual adapters on the host
[11:34] <shaya> so cant connect from host to vm
[11:34] <hughsie> ogra: go for it, richard at hughsie.com
[11:34] <hughsie> I'll add it to the CVS
[11:34] <ogra> shaya, if you file bugs we'll likely solve it for breezy :)
[11:34] <ogra> hughsie, ok...
[11:35] <ogra> hughsie, let me build that new package next week with al new options... then i'll rewrite the manpage
[11:36] <hughsie> ogra, no problem
[11:36] <ddaa> Anybody knows if dash has a public VCS?
[11:36] <hughsie> ogra: I love patches!
[11:36] <ddaa> Alternatively...
[11:36] <shaya> I filed bugs
[11:36] <ddaa> Does anyone think that dash has _no_ public VCS?
[11:37] <shaya> woops
[11:37] <ogra> ddaa, VCS ? Video Connection System ?
[11:37] <shaya> searching mozilla bugzilla
[11:37] <shaya> duh
[11:37] <ogra> heh
[11:37] <ddaa> ogra: version control system, dude...
[11:37] <ogra> ddaa, *g* 
[11:37] <shaya> ogra: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11681
[11:37] <thom> ddaa: clue for you. on any debian system, /usr/share/doc/foo/copyright
[11:38] <ddaa> thom: makes sense
[11:38] <thom> it'll tell you where to download from, and may very well give you enough detail to work it out
[11:38] <shaya> ah, thom who closed my vmware bug!
[11:38] <shaya> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11899
[11:38] <thom> ddaa: it appears to be in bk, fwiw
[11:38] <thom> shaya: whatever
[11:38] <ogra> waiting even...
[11:39] <ddaa> thom: somebody put rcs details from some netbsd repo (that apparently does not work right)...
[11:39] <thom> ddaa: i'm sure you can snag it out of netbsd's repo, yes
[11:40] <ddaa> thom: well, since the idea is to get _upstream_, I'm not sure that using netbsd as an intermediate is a good idea...
[11:40] <Kamion> ddaa: the netbsd repo is probably actually upstream
[11:40] <Kamion> ddaa: well, upstream for ash
[11:40] <Kamion> ddaa: Herbert forked ash to create dash
[11:41] <ddaa> Kamion: this page suggest dash forked off ash a loooooong time ago http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/dash/
[11:41] <Kamion> I didn't realise it had forked so long ago; I was thinking of when it was renamed
[11:41] <Kamion> but OK
[11:44] <hughsie> anyone: how does ubuntu control it's hard disk spindown? using hdparm like fedora?
[11:44] <thom> hughsie: yes
[11:44] <ddaa> thanks for the hint thom, but do not hope that will keep me quiet, I'm not going to install all the packages in main just to get to the details :)
[11:44] <tseng> hughsie: laptop-mode modifies hdparm values
[11:45] <hughsie> thom, tseng: so if i wanted to modify the value to, say 2 minutes on ubuntu what would i type?
[11:45] <thom> ddaa: by way of another clue, packages.ubuntu.com links to teh changelog for every *single* package
[11:46] <tseng> hughsie: er, man hdparm
[11:46] <hughsie> tseng: same as fedora, thanks
[11:46] <tseng> hughsie: yep.
[11:46] <hughsie> tseng: i wondered if you had a fancy script!
[11:46] <ddaa> thom: I'm using p.u.c all the time, I did not realise that the changelog had useful information for me.
[11:47] <Kamion> it links to the copyright file too
[11:47] <ddaa> I see... I can find some hints there "apply patch from upstream bk".
[11:47] <thom> hughsie: sadly not configurable right now
[11:47] <hughsie> thom, okay, thanks
[11:47] <thom> (well, without hacking the stuff in /etc/acpi directly)
[11:48] <tseng> thom: make my cdrom use dma in boot, kthxbi
[11:48] <thom> ddaa: uh, s/changelog/copyright/ sorry
[11:48] <thom> tseng: is your hdparm config right?
[11:49] <tseng> thom: yes
[11:49] <tseng>  /dev/hdc {
[11:49] <tseng>          dma = on      
[11:49] <thom> hrrrrms
[11:49] <tseng> iirc the bug is cdrom modules get loaded after hdparm starts
[11:49] <thom> hahah
[11:49] <thom> hm, no. that should be fine
[11:50] <thom> since hdparm is also run by hotplug/udev
[11:51] <tseng> hm
[11:51] <tseng> i think its fixed now
[11:51] <tseng> when did hotplug start running it?
[11:51] <thom> yonks ago
[11:51] <tseng> hm, silly me
[11:52] <tseng> ive still been setting it by hand
[11:52] <ogra> thom, but why is the bug still open ?
[11:52] <ogra> (i didnt see a FIXED notice)
[11:52] <tseng> Nafallo: i did no such thing
[11:53] <thom> jbailey and i had tag teamed it into working by Mon, 21 Mar 2005
[11:53] <thom> ogra: prolly cos we forgot to close the bug? ;-)
[11:53] <ogra> heh
[11:53] <Nafallo> tseng: well, I sign you up on it then ;-)
[11:53] <bddebian> jbailey actually did something?? Wow!
[11:53] <mako> tseng: thoe keys are there
[11:53] <mako> tseng: they are function keys though
[11:54] <mako> tseng: it's super conveniently set up though
[11:54] <tseng> mako: ah, rock
[11:54] <mako> tseng: same with the f-keys
[11:54] <tseng> mako: the one im looking at has blank keyfaces actually
[11:54] <Kamion> tseng: you said "silly me" => list of one silly person
[11:54] <tseng> Kamion: ah, lappend :)
[11:54] <thom> ogra: 4356 is closed
[11:55] <mako> tseng: control-alt-f1 is a bit tricky because it's 3 modifiers instead of two :)
[11:55] <mako> tseng: but nothing else really feels awkward ever
[11:55] <tseng> mako: i dont bind that combination to anything :D
[11:55] <tseng> Kamion: im chronically dumb
[11:55] <dholbach> tseng: come one, you're not :)
[11:55] <tseng> mako: back in the day i had every function key bound to some action with every modifier, pretty wack stuff
[11:56] <ogra> thom, ahh, i looked at 3672... thats a duplicate
[11:56] <mako> tseng: i still do.. ion3
[11:56] <tseng> openbox here
[11:56] <thom> ogra: that's a totally different problem
[11:56] <tseng> i just use bindings alot less heavily now
[11:57] <tseng> i acutally run gnome-panel and such
[11:57] <ogra> thom, huh ? why did mdz mark it as a duplicate for 4356 then ?
[11:58] <thom> ogra: 3672 is "work out that my cdrom is dma capable, and turn it on for me", not "i added my cdrom to hdparm.conf and nothing happened"
[11:58] <thom> ogra: 3672 isn't a dup of anything
[11:58] <thom> ogra: go to bed :P
[11:58] <ogra> heh, yes, i should....
[11:58] <Nafallo> yay!
[11:58] <mdz> ogra: 4356 is "hdparm starts before all hardware detection has been done"
[11:59] <mdz> which is part of "hardware detection should happen earlier" (5204)
[11:59] <ogra> mdz, yeps, i mixed them up....
[12:00] <mako> alright.. dinner time