[12:35] <dholbach> good night
[12:35] <uniq> nite.
[10:33] <uniq> riddell: if you give kdepim 10 minutes to upload. all kde 3.4.1 for amd64 is ready at http://frode.kde.no/hoary-updates/amd64/kde341/
[10:49] <uniq> uploaded.
[02:34] <spierrel> Hi everybody...
[02:48] <JRe> hi
[03:56] <pef> hello
[03:57] <hunger> qt4 is released...
[04:02] <uniq> nice. :)
[04:28] <hunger> Lets see whether kde will replace dcop now... they were waiting for qt4 to do so IIUC.
[04:29] <hunger> and I hope they'll manage to throw out arts for kde 4 as well.
[04:30] <JRe> hunger: they are going to replace dcop ??????
[04:31] <hunger> JRe: Yeap... maybe even in time for kde4p
[04:31] <hunger> JRe: The Ettrich (sp?) guy claimed that dbus is basically dcop2.
[04:32] <\sh> hunger: u mean the one of the founders of KDE? matthias ettrich
[04:32] <JRe> uniq: ok ;) whatever they do, it will rock ;)
[04:32] <hunger> \sh: Yes that one.
[04:32] <\sh> i had his book about kde2 in my hand yesterday ,) was one of my first o'reilly kde books ever..and I think the last one ,)
[04:33] <hunger> JRe: Well, KDE has some practice with ripping out the complete communication infrostructure minutes before the release;-)
[04:33] <JRe> hunger: lol ;)
[04:34] <hunger> But I'm really curious about kdemm (arts replacement): They want to do some facade for other MM frameworks like gstreamer.
[04:35] <hunger> ... the facade is to allow for easy setup and to allow them to switch later (so they do not end up in the same situation as with arts again).
[04:36] <JRe> ow good idea
[04:38] <JRe> i'll document me a little about kdemm it seems interesting
[04:40] <hunger> JRe: There are no papers on the lectures at linuxtag on the web:-(
[04:41] <JRe> anyone go to aKademy???
[04:41] <Riddell> yes
[04:42] <uniq> riddell: psst. amd64 packages done.
[04:42] <Riddell> so I see :)
[04:42] <uniq> off to dinner. bbl.
[04:43] <JRe> Riddell: i was sure that you would go! you're lucky Malaga is an amazing place!
[04:46] <Riddell> http://ktown.kde.org/~hausmann/qt4dance_medium.ogg
[05:54] <froud> does Canonical offer paid support for Kubuntu?
[05:55] <uniq> i would guess no.
[05:55] <froud> is there a markplace (web site) for company who do provide paid support?
[05:55] <froud> s/company/companies
[05:58] <uniq> not that i know of.
[06:00] <Riddell> froud: chances are if you pay them they'll support anything
[07:09] <uniq> riddell: wake up.. TB meeting.
[07:09] <uniq> and koffice is up now.
[07:09] <uniq> :)
[08:29] <froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/ updated main changes made to Kubuntu User Guide
[08:31] <uniq> nice, i'll have a look.
[08:32] <froud> cool, anyone is welcome to colaborate on these documents
[08:33] <froud> src can be checkout from https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[08:33] <uniq> my written english isn't that good.. i'll just give others more work in correcting my spellingmistakes :)
[08:34] <froud> well you dont need to be a shakespear, the team will fix any problems
[08:34] <froud> ideas and comments are also a big help
[08:35] <uniq> i'll start with ideas and comments :)
[08:35] <froud> cool, whatever you're comfortable with 
[08:56] <mart> froud: http://rafb.net/paste/results/a3avG310.html
[08:56] <froud> mart: thanks dude
[08:56] <mart> just a few things that don't 'parse' very well, and a wrong graphic
[08:57] <mart> Not sure about the apostrophe in "Displays a list of filters arranged by possible package status'."
[08:58] <froud> cool
[09:02] <froud> mart patch applied in svn
[09:12] <froud> mart: the apos is correct denoting plural
[09:14] <mart> yeah.. I just wasn't sure whether it was better to use package status in the singular
[09:14] <mart> eg. you might arrange something by number, not by numbers
[09:15] <mart> but I guess it works both ways
[09:15] <mart> (it wasn't in the patch anyway)
[09:15] <froud> the package can have multiple statuses (status')
[09:15] <froud> According to Chicago Manual of Style it is correct, but according to the Sunday Times it is wrong :-)
[09:16] <froud> thanks though for the patch
[09:16] <mart> can it? The filters look mutually exclusive
[09:16] <mart> no, you're right. they're not
[09:17] <mart> btw, it would be good to say what it means for a package to be 'locked'
[09:18] <froud> Hmmm good idea, write it and I'll patch it
[09:18] <mart> cool
[09:53] <KaiL> OpenOffice.org 2.0 or KOffice 1.4 - hmm, already a decission?
[09:54] <KaiL> KOffice = small. fast; but not 100% stable and (that's the worst) the MSO import is way to bad
[09:55] <uniq> hm.. no, not decided yet afaik. there was a discussion about it in the TB meeting today.. but no decission made.
[09:55] <KaiL> OOo = more stable, better MSO support (still far away from 100%); but very big and incredible slow
[09:55] <uniq> but i think oo.o is the one with most pros.
[09:56] <KaiL> would be interesting, if 2.0 final will be faster than the current beta in breezy
[09:57] <uniq> according to the (few) posts in kubuntu-users@ and the discussion during the TB-meeting i got the feeling oo.o is what'll be in breezy. but riddell is making a 'spec' to list the pros and cons for both alternatives.
[09:58] <uniq> and then there will be a new discussion, probably resulting in a decission.
[09:58] <KaiL> the question is, what we need more, MSO compatibility or being usable on slow computers
[09:59] <uniq> i can't speak for others than my self.. but MSO compability is high on my list for a office suite.
[09:59] <pef> hello
[09:59] <uniq> hi pef.
[10:00] <KaiL> who did the kdebluetooth package for hoary? is there one for breezy yet?
[10:00] <uniq> kail: the next on my list is stability. users think stable once someone says the word linux. we don't want to destroy that good reputation by adding software that crashes often.
[10:00] <uniq> kail: motaboy i think.
[10:01] <uniq> and for breezy i don't know.
[10:01] <KaiL> if I read the commends, both aren't REALLY stable
[10:02] <uniq> people have experienced that kpresenter can't read it's own filetype, etc.. that's serious problems. 
[10:03] <KaiL> got some similar comment about oo2 Writer
[10:04] <uniq> ok, we'll see when riddell get the spec up. afaik oo.o is already chosen for ubuntu.. so they consider it useable.. or to become useable.
[10:05] <uniq> useable as in good enought MSO compatibility and stable.
[10:06] <KaiL> MSO compatibility can't be "good enough" imho
[10:07] <uniq> I really don't have strong feelings for any of them. koffice would be great to promote KDE software. But i think it'll scare people away if it's crashing and such.
[10:07] <KaiL> we had enough stability problems with KDE 3.4.0
[10:07] <uniq> agreed.
[10:08] <uniq> krita is nice though.. should include that.
[10:10] <KaiL> yes, that for sure
[10:11] <KaiL> what about kivio?
[10:12] <KaiL> another app without something similar in OO
[10:12] <uniq> yeah, i know.. but does it need to be on the CD? that's the question.
[10:12] <uniq> it'll all go into universe or maybe main.
[10:20] <KaiL> the localisations are at meast more important
[10:20] <KaiL> every single untranslated word is a big argument against kubuntu
[10:21] <uniq> i know.
[10:22] <uniq> once we start to use rosetta it'll be easier to translate stuff.
[10:22] <KaiL> the kde apps are quite good translated afaik, but have you ever seen localised manpages? most are awefull outdated
[10:28] <hunger> KaiL: kivio is useless without stencils... and you are asked to buy those.
[10:29] <KaiL> ah, ok
[10:29] <KaiL> ...so forget it, until there are no free ones
[10:29] <hunger> KaiL: There are a couple of free ones, but they look ugly and are hard to use.
[10:30] <hunger> KaiL: The stencil builder is proprietary...
[10:31] <hunger> KaiL: Damn Kompany:-(
[10:32] <KaiL> looks like something to fix later
[11:44] <uniq> riddell: do you have the time to copy the amd64 package for kde 3.4.1 and koffice 1.4 to kubuntu.org? 
[11:44] <Riddell> dev.kubuntu.org.uk has mysteriously gone down
[11:44] <uniq> oh.
[11:44] <Riddell> may need to go on a late night cycle ride
[11:44] <uniq> kubuntu.org works for me.
[11:45] <uniq> if that has anything to do with anything.
[11:45] <Riddell> that's separate
[11:45] <uniq> ok.
[11:45] <Riddell> but I work on dev.kubuntu, kubuntu.org is behind a firewall, can't wget stuff
[11:45] <uniq> ok. understand.
[11:46] <uniq> i have kio-locate ready for review too. it's at the new nice REVU site.
[11:49] <allee> about koffice: how about pkg with debug=full to get stacktraces?
[11:50] <allee> put it on a page with a short page what to expect and what not and ask to use the debs and send debug infos.
[11:50] <uniq> sounds like a good idea.
[11:51] <allee> koffice-1.4 branch get's 1-2 fixes a day.  I guess koffice developers are keen to get more feedback.
[11:51] <uniq> if i'm going to build more amd64 debs now is the time. while my livecd-pbuilder-setup is still running.
[11:52] <allee> Another idea is maybe to ask a ko devel of search web for what bug/crash infos are needed,  add this to webpage to
[11:52] <allee> to enhance bug report quality
[11:53] <allee> ah, and last but not least.  Never post the sources.list line.  Only a ref to the web page so people (hopefully) read the short intro ;)
[11:53] <allee> FWIW:  I use koffice almost exclusively kwork, kpresenter admitted only for simple thing and I can remember a single crash