[12:01] <tseng> mdz: do you have a handy list for outstanding mono->main reports?
[12:01] <mdz> tseng: just what anastacia tells me
[12:02] <mdz> elmo: speaking of which, what would be the best way to set up an automated anastaciai run and publish the result?
[12:02] <mdz> s/iai/ia/
[12:03] <tseng> mdz: just dug up your last list from devel and subtracted what ive done since. thanks
[12:03] <mdz> tseng: is there anything which is ready to move which has not yet been moved?
[12:04] <ddaa> Usual question. This time for debiandoc-sgml (oh, yes, I did find the page on alioth, but it's useless, and I could not find it in the debian cvs and svn repos, and the copyright file is useless too).
[12:04] <tseng> mdz: when pitti and I looked at the last batch we were suprised to find some stuff was already moved
[12:04] <tseng> mdz: ill try and check on outstanding stuff
[12:05] <tseng> mdz: the last batch looks to be all settled.
[12:06] <lsuactiafner> tseng : do you get paid to develop?
[12:06] <tseng> lsuactiafner: not for ubuntu :)
[12:06] <mdz> tseng: if I recall our last conversation, you said pnet and treecc would go away; that leaves us with only xsp and gmime2.1
[12:06] <tseng> mdz: xsp should be gone
[12:06] <tseng> mdz: we seeded monodoc-http to universe
[12:07] <tseng> i see evolution-sharp, beagle, gmime2.1, libgmime-cil
[12:08] <tseng> ah evolution-sharp is done
[12:08] <mdz> right, libgmime-cil and libgmime2.1 are from the same source
[12:08] <tseng> ah, right.
[12:09] <tseng> mdz: great, exactly what I expected
[12:09] <tseng> mdz: do you have any idea how to knock the pnet stuff out of the seed?
[12:10] <mdz> tseng: I forget what the situation was with that
[12:10] <tseng> mdz: they supply virtuals
[12:10] <mdz> ah, right
[12:10] <tseng> mdz: mono itself can fill them, so germinate over looks it (same source)
[12:10] <mdz> so the thing to do would be to replace any deps on virtual-package with concrete-package | virtual-package
[12:10] <tseng> hm i think its like that
[12:10] <tseng> mono-mcs | cli-compiler
[12:10] <tseng> one second
[12:11] <mdz> check the rdepends and see if there's another package with a different dep
[12:14] <tseng> nothing is jumping out at me
[12:15] <tseng> does apt-cache depends show only the first virtual option?
[12:17] <mdz> tseng: sorry, I meant the germinate rdepends
[12:18] <tseng> rdepends for pnet-interpreter and treecc has nothing mono-ish
[12:18] <tseng> certainly not mono-mcs
[12:18] <tseng> the only thing i see atm is mono-mcs conflicts with pnet-compiler
[12:19] <mdz> so mono-mcs is the one that we want, right?
[12:19] <tseng> in some packages we have mono-mcs (>= 1.1.6) | c-sharp-compiler, mcs itself is certainly not one of those
[12:19] <tseng> mdz: yep.
[12:20] <mdz> I'll seed mono-mcs, then; that should take care of it
[12:20] <tseng> thatd be perfect
[12:20] <tseng> ill look into gmime, its schweeb's package and beagle reports early this week
[12:21] <tseng> one less breezy goal to bother mdz :)
[12:21] <ogra> tseng, dont forget to change your status ;)
[12:22] <tseng> ogra: ok jane
[12:22] <mdz> completed goals make mdz happy
[12:22] <ogra> hehe
[12:22] <mdz> goals completed early make mdz extra happy
[12:22] <dholbach> with REVU we got closer to ExpandingUniverse :)
[12:22] <mdz> ogra: speaking of which, would you update the status of your various goals (and include a date so we can see when it was last updated)?
[12:23] <ogra> mdz, btw, what do we do about UbuntuExpress ... i looked at the package today
[12:23] <mdz> dholbach: REVU?
[12:23] <dholbach> mdz: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/index.py
[12:23] <tseng> ogra: ill make mono light green
[12:23] <mdz> ogra: UbuntuExpress needs for me and Kamion to spend some time together
[12:23] <ogra> mdz, the frontend to elma ;)
[12:23] <dholbach> mdz: it will hopefully speed up our review process
[12:23] <tseng> dholbach: im not sure speed it up is right
[12:23] <mdz> ah, I've seen this.  I didn't realize it had a name
[12:23] <tseng> but its easier to keep track
[12:23] <tseng> of what is ready to go
[12:24] <tseng> and what needs more work
[12:24] <ogra> mdz, i already talked to sabdfl about a vserver or something along this line for it
[12:24] <dholbach> tseng: not in terms of just giving signatures for packages
[12:25] <tseng> ogra: i think smurfix is mostly in charge of those, mainly for loco use
[12:25] <ogra> tseng, yes, bu if sbuild doesnt work in a vserver we need to find another solutin
[12:25] <tseng> ogra: oh are they really a vserver?
[12:26] <tseng> we were talking about linode at udu, which is uml or xen
[12:26] <ogra> tseng, dunno, i never saw one
[12:26] <tseng> (xen is in beta)
[12:26] <ogra> yes, i happen to remember something about linode....
[12:26] <smurfix> I will be once the stuff is operational. Coming Soon (for some value of "soon", anyway).
[12:27] <tseng> smurfix: is it a vserver setup?
[12:30] <tseng> they are still on the udu wiki right?
[12:30] <ogra> yep
[12:31] <KaiL> ogra: all except the KDE frontend fone?
[12:31] <KaiL> done..
[12:32] <ogra> KaiL, yes, but gnome-power is waiting to go to main... and i'm wondering if i can already switch status or should wait
[12:32] <tseng> RAGE
[12:32] <tseng> if you go to https://udu.wiki
[12:32] <ogra> tseng, ?
[12:32] <tseng> it takes you to the main page
[12:32] <tseng> so i cannot put in my password securely
[12:32] <tseng> ah.. i can login to the main page https and go back
[12:32] <tseng> somehow
[12:33] <KaiL> battery critical = <20%? a bit high, or?
[12:33] <dholbach> i'll call it the day, if somebody of you has some minutes to spare, review day is still going on in some timezones *hint*
[12:34] <ogra> KaiL, turn it down then :)
[12:34] <tseng> g'night dholbach 
[12:34] <ogra> night dholbach 
[12:34] <KaiL> ...and gnome-power-manager seams to need a running gnome :)
[12:35] <KaiL> ah, no - it dislikes, that hal doesn't want to start here
[12:35] <ogra> KaiL, nope, a notification area and a running HAL 0.5
[12:35] <KaiL> am I the only one with broken hal on breezy?
[12:35] <ogra> KaiL, might be... here they all work....
[12:35] <KaiL> run-parts: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/20hal exited with return code 1
[12:36] <KaiL> ..I hate such helpfull messages...
[12:39] <KaiL> this time returns 2.,..
[12:40] <ogra> night all
[12:40] <KaiL> n8 ogra 
[12:40] <tseng> bye ogra.
[12:40] <ajmitch> night ogra 
[12:50] <lsuactiafner> anyone here got a static 32bit mplayer binary that supports -vo x11?
[12:55] <ddaa> Hey fellow ubuntite. Anyone knows about a potential debmake VCS?
[01:02] <Kamion> ddaa: debmake is frighteningly obsolete
[01:02] <ddaa> Kamion: I gathered from the copyright notice
[01:03] <Kamion> if it isn't in a VCS already, I doubt anyone will be motivated to rectify that :-)
[01:03] <ddaa> that's the "is it in a VCS already" bit I'm asking about ;)
[01:04] <ddaa> Anyway... I sort of guess that all the active development is taking place in the form of deb patches...
[01:07] <mdz> ick, we have stuff in main which uses debmake?
[01:07] <lifeless> mdz: debmake is in main
[01:08] <lifeless> mdz: if you don't want it there, just say so ;)
[01:08] <mdz> 5 of them
[01:08] <Kamion> it's not seeded so stuff must use it
[01:08] <mdz> lifeless: well, I sort of want main to build ;-)
[01:08] <mdz> * Reverse Build-Depends:
[01:08] <mdz>  +- acl
[01:08] <mdz>  +- attr
[01:08] <mdz>  +- dmapi
[01:08] <mdz>  +- libcompface
[01:08] <mdz>  +- xfsdump
[01:08] <lifeless> really ?
[01:08] <lifeless> damn, you've thought of everything :)
[01:09] <lifeless> I had a hard lockup playing a video :[
[01:09] <lifeless> complete change of topic ;0
[01:09] <mdz> reproducible?
[01:09] <ddaa> mdz: there's plenty of "questionable" stuff in main...
[01:09] <mdz> free drivers or binary?
[01:09] <lifeless> mdz: too busy to try to repeoduce, free drivers
[01:09] <lifeless> vlc-gnome
[01:09] <tseng> lifeless: on a laptop by any chance?
[01:09] <lifeless> tseng: yes
[01:09] <tseng> lifeless: on battery?
[01:09] <mdz> ogra: don't forget that BreezyGoals update
[01:10] <ddaa> mdz: like this "bonobo" package, whose difference with "libbonobo" is entirely unclear (and that nobody has clarified for me).
[01:10] <lifeless> vlc showed a blue square, then x bounced, bounced, bounced, stopped cold
[01:10] <lifeless> tseng: no
[01:10] <tseng> lifeless: nm then :)
[01:10] <mdz> ddaa: did you ask seb128?
[01:10] <tseng> i get hardlocks from laptop-mode
[01:10] <ddaa> at some point, he did not answer...
[01:10] <lifeless> ddaa: bonobo == libbonobo from a vcs pov
[01:10] <ogra> mdz, is it enough if i do it tomorrow morning ? 
[01:10] <lifeless> ddaa: established that a year ago ;)
[01:11] <ddaa> I'm making a small stash of weird, obscure, hopelessly obsolete, or otherwise mysterious stuff I had no answer about when I first asked :)
[01:11] <mdz> ogra: certainly, just don't forget :-)
[01:11] <ogra> mdz, surely not :)
[01:11] <ogra> thanks
[01:11] <mdz> ogra: good night
[01:11] <ddaa> like... debiandoc-sgml?
[01:11] <ogra> and night :)
[01:12] <ddaa> lifeless: ack, moving bonobo to alreadydone
[01:12] <lifeless> bonobo-ui is different though
[01:13] <ddaa> yeah, I know
[01:13] <ddaa> it's just a collection of random deprecated stuff :)
[01:13] <ddaa> the discussions with jdub and bob2 about it were a bit funny to read... 
[01:17] <mdz> ddaa: debiandoc-sgml is legacy, but it's not going away until documentation using it is converted to something else
[01:17] <ddaa> mdz: this kind of information is interesting
[01:18] <Kamion> documentation packages are the sort of things that never really go away
[01:18] <Kamion> documentation support packages, I mean
[01:18] <ddaa> but it does not help the very narrow focus that motivated my question, is there any public "upstream" vcs for it.
[01:18] <mdz> ddaa: if you were to create a page in the Ubuntu wiki with your list and notes, that would be interesting
[01:18] <Kamion> because everyone has their own favourite doc format and it requires effort to which over
[01:18] <Kamion> s/which/switch/
[01:19] <ddaa> mdz: we actually have an arch archive were we do that
[01:19] <mdz> ddaa: iwj would probably know if it ever had a vcs
[01:19] <Burgundavia> elmo, ping
[01:20] <ddaa> it's not very detailed, when it's in launchpad, we just record the name of the corresponding product and series. We only keep notes for the weird cases about which we were not able to establish existence (or lack) of a VCS and for some of unsupported (bk, arch) ones.
[01:21] <ddaa> sadly a lot of the previous research work was not recorded anywhere :(
[01:23] <ddaa> mdz: does iwj usuall hang on this chan?
[01:23] <ddaa> ha...
[01:23] <ddaa> new employee :)
[01:37] <ddaa> mhhh...
[01:47] <StylusEater> hello
[01:48] <StylusEater> is crimsun around?
[01:56] <Kamion> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/hoary-hp-laptop/ # apt archive of the stuff you've given me
[01:56] <Kamion> lamont: ^--
[02:04] <lsuactiafner> asking here since #ubuntu doesnt seem to know, how do i apt-get xmms-mplayer without apt-get installin mplayer as a dependancy?
[02:04] <lsuactiafner> i got mplayer already installed.. i compile it myself.
[02:04] <Kamion> use equivs
[02:04] <Kamion> it can generate a fake package for you
[02:04] <lsuactiafner> tar
[02:05] <lsuactiafner> hehe this is going to be fun
[02:07] <lsuactiafner> heh what woudld the command be to bypass the dependancy mplayer-amd64?
[02:08] <lsuactiafner> i see thanks
[02:09] <Kamion> it comes with documentation
[02:10] <lsuactiafner> actually are you sure this util can be used for this?
[02:11] <Kamion> yes
[02:16] <Kamion> gaaaaaaaaaah, why is gnome-terminal uninstallable
[02:17] <Kamion> ah, gnome-terminal-data universe->main, doing
[02:19] <wasabi_> Hmm. Interesting. Working on a package. I want to create a symlink from $(variable1)/file1 to $(variable2)/file2.
[02:19] <wasabi_> Basically within debian/tmp.
[02:19] <wasabi_> I can't fully qualify the second, because then the symlink is wrong.
[02:19] <Kamion> wasabi_: use dh_link
[02:20] <Kamion> daniels: are you doing l-r-m for 2.6.12? (if not, is it trivial to do?)
[02:20] <wasabi_> will dh_link operate inside debian/tmp?
[02:23] <wasabi_> newp.
[02:24] <Kamion> its man page is pretty clear ...
[02:25] <wasabi_> I can't use .links.
[02:25] <Kamion> you don't have to
[02:25] <Kamion> it takes source/target paths as arguments
[02:28] <mdz> Kamion: do you know where cron.sync gets its seeds from?
[02:28] <mdz> it seems to be looking at old seeds
[02:28] <mdz> oh, I bet it's kubuntu
[02:28] <Kamion> mdz: it'll be germinate's default, i.e. http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/
[02:31] <mdz> Kamion: once we have edubuntu in the mix, I think we'll need to have some sort of merged germinate output in order to be able to tell what's going on
[02:34] <Kamion> I could create aggregate seeds to avoid having to modify germinate
[02:35] <Kamion> current daily CD build works fine with the exception of archive-copier and gnome-terminal (both fixed)
[02:36] <Kamion> hmm, and "Error" "failed to initialize HAL!" at desktop start
[02:36] <mdz> grrr
[02:37] <mdz> I can't fix kubuntu because the seed archive is broken again
[02:37] <mdz> Riddell: ping
[02:37] <mdz> drwxr-sr-x  3 jriddell warthogs 4096 Jun  8 22:17 /home/warthogs/archives/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--breezy/seeds--breezy--0/patch-8/++revision-lock/
[02:37] <KaiL> mdz: you expect him to be still awake? ;)
[02:38] <mdz> KaiL: it's worth checking, because this is blocking something I need to do
[02:40] <mdz> lifeless: is this something which could be fixed in baz?
[02:40] <mdz> lifeless: e.g., force consistent permissions on new directories created in the archive?
[02:41] <lifeless> mdz: yes
[02:42] <lifeless> mdz: we need to figure out how to set permissions via sftp.
[02:42] <lifeless> or you can use the team-archives on the supermirror, which sets umask automatically
[02:43] <StylusEater> mdz: you seen crimsun?
[02:44] <KaiL> mdz: little bit OT, do you know, what's going on with debian-security? (you are listed as being in the team..)
[02:47] <mdz> lifeless: where can I find more information on team-archives?
[02:47] <mdz> KaiL: very OT for this channel
[02:47] <mdz> StylusEater: not recently
[02:47] <StylusEater> mdz: thanks...been looking for him/her
[02:48] <KaiL> how many of that 5 are now working for ubuntu?
[02:49] <mdz> KaiL: assuming you mean Canonical, rather than Ubuntu (nobody works for Ubuntu), one
[02:50] <lifeless> mdz: chat with spiv - I don't know if we've rolled out that speicfic code yet
[02:50] <KaiL> as I expected.. because some people talk rubbish about this like "they are now payed to work on ubuntu and so don't have the time to work on debian any more"
[02:50] <mdz> KaiL: it's exactly that, rubbish
[02:50] <mdz> especially if it came from rene engelhard
[02:51] <KaiL> who's that?
[02:51] <mdz> someone who has been spreading similar rumours
[02:51] <StylusEater> people are upset over the PERCEIVED "brain drain"
[02:52] <StylusEater> but work for ubuntu helps debian IMHO
[02:52] <KaiL> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/2005/06/msg03342.html and there we have him saying more or less this :)
[02:53] <StylusEater> KaiL: why add fuel to the fire? this is a dev channel
[02:53] <mdke> i was gonna say that
[02:54] <mdke> perhaps make a #bitching channel
[02:55] <KaiL> StylusEater: I was only collecting arguments, if there are again questions in #ubuntu-de
[02:55] <mdz> someone created a stir at linuxtag, I gather
[02:56] <StylusEater> das ist goot
[02:56] <mdke> shame
[02:56] <Kamion> long off-topic discussions in this channel make it difficult for developers to find useful information in scrollback when they return from a period of not paying attention to IRC
[02:56] <StylusEater> :-)
[02:59] <carstenh> goot?
[03:01] <KaiL> mdke: this might interest you, as he's calling you directly there: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/2005/06/msg03346.html
[03:01] <mdke> completion error
[03:01] <mdke> not me guv
[03:03] <KaiL> in short [to prevent Kamions mousewheel from overheating ;-)] , you are blocking packages in debian not to be updated and doing nothing there any more...
[03:04] <carstenh> "doing nothing there anymore" is not correct
[03:05] <carstenh> he did not say that, he talks about apt 0.6 security etc. but not about "doing nothing"
[03:07] <KaiL> carstenh: second line
[03:08] <carstenh> hmm, i think this means doing noting in/for security
[03:08] <carstenh> nothing
[03:08] <StylusEater> I am out y'all...
[03:09] <carstenh> KaiL: but maybe you are right and i misinterpreted that
[03:09] <KaiL> I mean debian-security with "there" ;)
[03:09] <mdke> KaiL, check out the thread on debian-security, it has some information for you, but surely enough in this channel now?
[03:11] <carstenh> KaiL: oh, sorry. :)
[03:11] <KaiL> and now EOT for that - back to real problems ;))
[03:11] <mdke> phew
[03:43] <tseng> i wonder if this new sun opteron workstation runs ubutnu nicely
[03:44] <tseng> you can get it with JDS
[03:44] <tseng> (on linux)
[03:45] <tseng> luis_: i want one for ubuntu/mono love
[03:45] <tseng> luis_: i am the auto-tinderbox
[03:45] <tseng> sebuild-lite
[03:46] <schweeb> you guys are scaring me here
[03:46] <bddebian> OpenSolaris?
[03:46] <schweeb> well, luis_ is :p
[03:46] <schweeb> a dog and pony show.
[03:46] <tseng> schweeb: its a nice looking box
[03:46] <tseng> schweeb: if it runs a nice os
[03:46] <schweeb> tseng: yea, I do admit, the opteron hardware is nice
[03:46] <tseng> sata disks
[03:46] <tseng> gige
[03:47] <tseng> pcie.. its loaded
[03:49] <luis_> schweeb: my only motivation is to get sun hacking on HEAD again, or close to it
[03:49] <schweeb> that is a good motivation, I suppose
[03:49] <luis_> they can shove the CDDL up their ass for all I care
[03:49] <schweeb> :)
[03:49] <jdub> http://primates.ximian.com/~fejj/blog/archives/000031.html
[03:49] <jdub> bah, no pitti
[03:49] <luis_> but they currently assume HEAD is crap
[03:49] <tseng> jdub: yeah dude
[03:49] <luis_> partially because, well, it doesn't necessarily build on solaris :)
[03:49] <tseng> jdub: working with snorp and CO on ipod stuff
[03:50] <schweeb> luis_: I work w/ Solaris all day long, and I'm not a fan
[03:50] <tseng> jdub: those lamers are all on submoutn
[03:50] <luis_> schweeb: I had to work with it during the GNOME 2.0 cycle, and... well, we weren't very excited by it either ;)
[03:50] <jdub> fejj is angry mans
[03:50] <tseng> i hope in the next release they tell submount to piss off
[03:50] <tseng> its so bad
[03:50] <jdub> luis_: so i downloaded sexpressb16 for sparc to install on my u5 and 220R
[03:50] <schweeb> luis_: I even have JDS, and am not particularly impressed... I'm removing it in favor of gnome 2.8 from blastwave
[03:51] <schweeb> I wanna try netinstalling from fabbione's images again to my Blade 100
[03:51] <jdub> luis_: if i can find a way to leave the 220R on for a useful period of time without clawing my ears off, i'll give you access
[03:51] <tseng> does solaris at least have a nice base of gnu tools now?
[03:51] <schweeb> tseng: not by default
[03:51] <jdub> tseng: not by default
[03:51] <schweeb> tseng: blastwave
[03:51] <jdub> heh
[03:51] <tseng> man i hate that
[03:52] <tseng> aix too
[03:52] <schweeb> aix 5.1 I despise
[03:52] <schweeb> 5.2 is a bit better
[03:52] <jdub> raaaaiin
[03:52] <tseng> schweeb: i had to use aix 4 several times
[03:52] <jdub> pia saw steve ballmer speak yesterday
[03:52] <tseng> schweeb: </3
[03:52] <jdub> she came home very angry
[03:52] <schweeb> tseng: I had an AIX box with a load of 1200 today
[03:52] <tseng> holy crap
[03:52] <schweeb> and it was still climbing when I logged off
[03:52] <tseng> did you run vi?
[03:52] <luis_> schweeb: from my perspective, JDS sucking is bad for GNOME
[03:52] <jdub> "he was LYING about INTEROPERABILITY!"
[03:52] <luis_> schweeb: so I want to help make it not suck
[03:53] <tseng> jdub: blog it!
[03:53] <jdub> "he was TALKING about INTEROPERABILITY?!"
[03:53] <luis_> jdub: yeah, seriously, blog that, or make her do it
[03:53] <jdub> i think she might
[03:53] <tseng> put her on puc
[03:53] <schweeb> tseng: that's 1200... on an 8way 1.2Ghz power4 box, with 32GB of RAM
[03:53] <jdub> she is not a member :)
[03:53] <schweeb> I was like, holy crap
[03:54] <tseng> schweeb: eh.
[03:54] <schweeb> oracle totally demolished that box
[03:54] <jdub> and having to live with canonical staff is not yet member-worthy :)
[03:54] <tseng> haha oracle
[03:54] <tseng> what a scam
[03:54] <luis_> jdub: someone at ucc offered me a crazy eight-way sun box today
[03:54] <luis_> but only by way of buildbot
[03:54] <tseng> jdub: want to hear about my dillema?
[03:54] <luis_> and AFAICS buildbot just Ain't Going To Cut It for gnome
[03:55] <jdub> hfsnw
[03:55] <jdub> "Norwegian Minister of Modernization"
[03:55] <luis_> yeah
[03:55] <jdub> tseng: your bad spelling?
[03:55] <luis_> great title
[03:55] <tseng> jdub: at work I have a totally random mixture of redhat/fedora/rhel boxes
[03:55] <schweeb> jdub: <3
[03:55] <schweeb> jdub: another spelling nazi, I see
[03:55] <tseng> jdub: i told my boss they should all run the same version so we can actually maintain that crap
[03:55] <tseng> jdub: so his boss is like zomgbbquackrhel
[03:56] <tseng> its hard to sell ubuntu support when it doesnt cover the stuff we are using
[03:58] <tseng> php4-mysql and etheral come to mind instantly
[03:59] <jdub> tseng: what stuff? we can sort that out.
[03:59] <jdub> php4-mysql was a fuckup
[03:59] <tseng> ah tcl is supported
[03:59] <ajmitch> putting ethereal in main would probably make pitti annoyed
[03:59] <tseng> ajmitch: yes
[03:59] <jdub> ethereal would get mdz and pitti riled up
[03:59] <jdub> but it's doable
[03:59] <tseng> we use it internally to debug network issues
[04:00] <tseng> im not saying it should move
[04:00] <jdub> tseng: if you have specs, or things that may help you, please mail me :)
[04:00] <tseng> but would it be possible..
[04:00] <tseng> to get support contracts based on certain "extra" packages?
[04:00] <tseng> within reason
[04:00] <jdub> yes
[04:00] <tseng> clever
[04:01] <tseng> who takes support calls?
[04:01] <jdub> tseng: and probably some bonuses, given that your company employs an ubuntu maintainer :)
[04:01] <jdub> tseng: our Support Team
[04:01] <jdub> (read: jbailey)
[04:01] <tseng> ah!
[04:01] <tseng> totally rad.
[04:01] <jdub> totally rad laptop support :)
[04:02] <tseng> yeah the whole support scene is so bogus
[04:02] <tseng> i feel dirty looking at RHEL pricing
[04:11] <jdub> we need a minister for modernisation
[04:11] <tseng> you need to pimp the support page harder :)
[04:14] <wasabi> Slight alternitives problem. I am running update-alternatives in postinst, the alternative is being created... but hte link to the alternative isn't...
[04:25] <tseng> i just got a spam that started with { Spam? }
[04:30] <carstenh> tseng: maybe your isp did add this for you ;)
[04:37] <tseng> carstenh: i own the mailserver, its direct to a backbone in a data center
[04:37] <bddebian> Dumb gpg question:  Why would gpg -se -r foo@bar.com test.txt fail with public key not found, when gpg --search-keys foo@bar.com succeeds?
[04:37] <tseng> carstenh: an isp doesnt touch my mail :)
[04:37] <carstenh> hmm
[05:06] <mdz> jdub: ethereal GRRR
[05:06] <wasabi> Finally. Eclipse 3.1 looks done.
[05:07] <wasabi> Now with native GCJ goodnes.s
[05:07] <jdub> mdz: :)
[05:08] <mdz> daniels: will you be preparing l-r-m-2.6.12, or is someone else working on it?
[05:12] <wasabi> Buh. I'm doing something simple and wrong.
[05:12] <wasabi> update-alternatives --quiet --install /usr/bin/ecj ecj /usr/bin/ecj-bootstrap 3          in my postinst.
[05:12] <wasabi> Yet /usr/bin/ecj is not showing up.
[05:14] <infinity> wasabi : Does it work manually?
[05:15] <wasabi> Well, the alternatives look installed... the link isn't created though.
[05:15] <wasabi> I didn't think I was supposed to create it on my own, am I?
[05:15] <infinity> No.
[05:17] <infinity> What happens if you remove the installed alternative, then add it?
[05:17] <wasabi> Heh. Just removing it created it.
[05:18] <infinity> Do you have another ecj alternative?
[05:18] <infinity> Or just the one?
[05:18] <wasabi> Yup
[05:27] <mdz> tseng: thanks for taking care of those mono bugs in bugzilla
[05:51] <wasabi> Any cdbs wizards available? Trying to figure out how to make a make target in rules that is applied once per package, after install.
[05:57] <dilinger> $(patsubst %,build/%,$(DEB_ARCH_PACKAGES))::
[05:57] <daniels> god, xserver-xorg.{config,postinst}.in are a mess
[05:57] <dilinger> use install instead of build
[05:58] <daniels> dilinger: wow, cdbs makes everything so easy!
[05:58] <dilinger> daniels: there's a reason it's being rewritten :P
[06:13] <doko> wasabi: please choose a higher priority for the ecj-eclipse package
[06:14] <infinity> daniels : Oh, that reminds me, over the weekend I repackages xorg to use cdbs, I'm uploading right now.
[06:14] <infinity> s/repackages/repackaged/
[06:15] <daniels> infinity: great!  you get to keep both pieces.
[06:15] <infinity> Only two?... That's surely an improvement. :)
[06:34] <calc> btw 2254 still seems to affect users and apparently it works on fedora and gentoo
[06:35] <calc> is there a way to cc: an email to buzilla bug number?
[06:43] <Lathiat> sigh, almost no applications deal with the system tray going away
[07:07] <fabbione> morning
[07:13] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[07:13] <mdz> fabbione: what was the reason for not doing a 'linux' metapackage as I originally proposed?  I don't remember it
[07:14] <fabbione> mdz: it's there for all arches that can have it
[07:14] <mdz> fabbione: I said metapackage
[07:14] <fabbione> mdz: it's missing on hppa/ppc only iirc
[07:14] <fabbione> oh i added it as provides in the kernel package
[07:15] <mdz> right, which does not have quite the same effect
[07:15] <fabbione> ok, we can move it today without any problem
[07:15] <mdz> and I do not remember why you wanted to do a virtual package instead of a metapackage
[07:15] <mdz> you had a reason for it
[07:15] <fabbione> i don't recall having a reason for that...
[07:16] <fabbione> other than we can do it but not for all arches....
[07:17] <fabbione> mdz: i need to upload a kernel today for Kamion, so we can easily move it out of the kernel and add it to linux-meta
[07:17] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[07:17] <mdz> it is useful to have the metapackage so that it can track new versions
[07:17] <fabbione> ok
[07:17] <fabbione> sure
[07:17] <mdz> with a virtual package we would have to remove the provides from the old version
[07:17] <fabbione> works for me :)
[07:18] <wasabi> Interesting. debuild -S doesn't enforce deps?
[07:18] <mdz> fabbione: this is very convenient for ltsp, which needs to install a generic kernel in its chroot
[07:18] <fabbione> mdz: that's fine.. i really don't recall any reason for not making the metapackage....
[07:18] <infinity> wasabi : They're "build-depends", not "clean-depends".. :)
[07:19] <wasabi> My package requires them for clean. ;)
[07:19] <wasabi> (there isn't a Clean-Depends is there?)
[07:19] <infinity> wasabi : Realistically, people shouldn't use anything outside build-essential in clean (IMO), but that's certainly not followed by everyone.
[07:19] <wasabi> It's not neccassarily possible with, for instance, Java.
[07:19] <wasabi> Where the package's clean routine is build into the ANt scripts, which requires a full JVM> ;)
[07:20] <infinity> wasabi : In the end, it's no big deal, since buildds will always have build-deps installed, and individual users can do a "dpkg-checkbuilddeps" before fiddling, if they care.
[07:20] <wasabi> Yeah I know I just found it interesting.
[07:20] <infinity> wasabi : Sure, but if there was no build run, then it's okay for clean to fail, since there's nothing to clean (so call you clean with "-"), if there was a build run, then the build-deps are installed, right? :)
[07:21] <wasabi> oooh. Smarty pants.
[07:26] <wasabi> I don't suppose buildds follow Recommends in Build-Deps
[07:27] <infinity> Of course not.
[07:27] <wasabi> Just slightly unfortunate. The Eclipse build could be sped up *2 if they did. ;)
[07:28] <infinity> How so?
[07:28] <wasabi> Well, we have two ecj-bootstrap packages now. ecj-bootstrap and ecj-bootstrap-gcj
[07:28] <wasabi> The -gcj one contains native versions.
[07:28] <wasabi> They are significantly faster.
[07:28] <wasabi> the main package recommends teh -gcj package.
[07:28] <wasabi> I guess I could dep on -gcj, but I don't really want to restrict it to that.
[07:28] <infinity> You can build-dep on ecj-bootstrap-gcj | ecj-bootstrap
[07:28] <doko> wasabi: you know that ecj is miscompiled by gcj?
[07:29] <wasabi> doko, is it?
[07:29] <wasabi> Seems to be working.
[07:29] <doko> wasabi: according to man-di, the native build
[07:30] <wasabi> I know there is one Jar in Eclipse that GCJ miscompiles, but it's not ecj that I'm aware of.
[07:31] <wasabi> Looks like fedora is using gcj to compile ecj.
[07:32] <doko> see PR java/21540
[07:40] <mae> Hi, with anjuta I am getting "config.status: error: cannot find input file: test.in" when i try to do a make autogen... what package do i need to install? (I already installed all the reccomended and suggest packages)
[07:40] <mdz> mae: that sounds more like a bug in the makefile than a missing package
[07:41] <mdz> s/makefile/configure script/
[07:41] <mae> gotcha
[07:41] <wasabi> doko, http://kyoto.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/ubuntu
[07:42] <wasabi> Starting what I believe is the final full eclipse build right now. When this is done and confirmed working, I will stick it up too.
[07:43] <doko> wasabi: what am I supposed to do? ;-)
[07:43] <wasabi> I just want somebody to review those packages.
[07:43] <wasabi> I don't want to bust something.
[07:43] <doko> ahh, ok
[07:43] <wasabi> Since OO now rests on them.
[07:44] <mae> do you guys think that a system like scons will ever displace an old crusty system like make? :)
[07:45] <Lathiat> scons replaces mroe than just make
[07:45] <mdz> fabbione: is the ppc64 comment in the topic still accurate?
[07:45] <mae> Lathiat, make/automake etc :)
[07:45] <wasabi> I think the only remaining issue with this Eclipse is that it probably doesn't work on ~i386.
[07:45] <wasabi> !i386... but I don't know for sure, as I can't test it. ;)
[07:46] <womble> wasabi: If you think about it, ~i386 is actually probably more accurate... bitwise negation, rather than logical negation
[07:46] <mae> Lathiat, hmm
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: which comment? ;)
[07:47] <fabbione> it was leftover...
[07:47] <mae> Actually wouldnt bitwise & be more appropriate? i.e. i386 & i686 :) eclipse will not work with the minimal i386 "flags" :)
[07:47] <fabbione> ppc64 is teh rock now
[07:47] <pitti> Good morning!
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: ever tried it on davis?
[07:47] <mdz> pitti: morning
[07:47] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:47] <mdz> fabbione: no
[07:48] <mdz> I don't think I even have an account
[07:48] <fabbione> mdz: you should... davis is faster than concordia now
[07:48] <fabbione> mdz: i think everybody do.. it's a porting box
[07:48] <pitti> cool
[07:48] <mdz> yes, I do
[07:49] <mdz> tried what on davis?
[07:49] <fabbione> mdz: concordia starts to slowdown on make -j200
[07:49] <fabbione> davis: starts at -j500
[07:49] <fabbione> compiling the kernel for example ;)
[07:49] <mdz> how long does it take?
[07:49] <fabbione> and no random segfaults
[07:49] <fabbione> around 8 minutes per image iirc
[07:50] <fabbione> with -j200
[07:50] <fabbione> i usually don't push it too much
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: do you want linux to Depends: on linux-image-386 or linux-386 ?
[07:55] <mdz> fabbione: the latter
[07:55] <fabbione> ok
[07:55] <fabbione> that will make it landing in restricted...
[07:55] <mdz> thanks
[07:56] <doko> wasabi: java-common is not synced with unstable
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: see /msg
[07:57] <fabbione> (i am going to add the other arches if that's ok with you)
[08:01] <mdz> yep, thanks
[08:02] <fabbione> mdz: welcome :)
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: you will get kernel and linux-meta pretty soon. Kamion needs an urgent change for d-i
[08:03] <fabbione> so it should be there for when you will wake up later
[08:08] <doko> elmo: please sync python-numeric and python-numarray from unstable
[08:16] <daniels> mdz: fwiw, autodetect_monitor seems to be working in -33
[08:18] <daniels> mdz: also, do you know if preseeding sets the seen flag to true?
[08:18] <daniels> mdz: if not, making it so would probably be the answer to all your troubles
[08:19] <doko> wasabi: same with ecj-bootstrap, but that's a minor sync
[08:20] <wasabi> doko, I'm not too worried about either of those right now. I'd prefer to get my patches well tested before interacting with Debian.
[08:20] <wasabi> I do know about it though, yes.
[08:20] <wasabi> Priority: Eclipse 3.1 in Breezy, packaged properly and cleanly.
[08:22] <doko> wasabi: ant is missing a versioned dep on java-common?
[08:22] <wasabi> Is it? You are right.
[08:22] <netdur> it is possible to mail ubuntu-devel asking for tech help about developing stuff for ubuntu?
[08:22] <wasabi> Err, no it isn't.
[08:22] <wasabi> Oh, dow there.
[08:22] <wasabi> down. =)
[08:23] <doko> wasabi: mail: sure, there is no other place.
[08:24] <wasabi> Thanks. That's why I asked. ;)
[08:24] <wasabi> I did the same with ecj-bootstrap.
[08:28] <wasabi> Notice the new /etc/jvm file? I was thinking, new JVM packages should add themselves to that.
[08:29] <wasabi> Or maybe not. I dunno. ;)
[08:29] <wasabi> I'm trying to provide an easy way for users to choose which JVM should be used for what program.
[08:31] <wasabi> Haha. Eclipse compiles like, 4 times faster with a native Ecj.
[08:31] <wasabi> Rock on.
[08:31] <bob2> netdur: sure, if youve exhausted the documentation etc
[08:34] <netdur> bob2, thanks :)
[08:35] <daniels> mdz: i suppose it would also make sense, depending on your interpretation of the seen flag
[08:35] <daniels> mdz: mine would be 'user has consciously answered this question'
[08:42] <daniels> Kamion: can we add a note to the errata for hoary or such that people running with isa vga should use boot with multiseat-udeb/force_multiseat=false?
[08:46] <doko> wasabi: we currently do have alternative, we have pseudo java homes, why another mechanism like /etc/jvm?
[08:47] <wasabi> Because it's important for a real Java developer to be able to set certain specific programs to open with certain VMs
[08:47] <wasabi> even per-user.
[08:47] <wasabi> For instance, I use a whole host of Eclipse plugins which are propriatary.
[08:47] <wasabi> And only work on Sun's VM.
[08:48] <wasabi> But I want most of my other programs to use gcj.
[08:48] <wasabi> Except tomcat, which I need to use Sun's for, also.
[08:48] <wasabi> (I require a security manager)
[08:48] <doko> so, it's not the jvm that is registered, but a hint, which program uses which JVM?
[08:49] <wasabi> Basically, until we can guarentee 100% compatibility, something even IBM can't really do with their VM, I need to be able to change.
[08:49] <wasabi> Yeah.
[08:49] <wasabi> /etc/jvm, /etc/jvm.d/$programname, ~/.jvm ~/.jvm.d/$programname.
[08:50] <wasabi> Basically lets any user on the system (shared office workstation, imporant stuff) to set any program to open with any VM.
[08:51] <wasabi> Someday I want to make a GUI for it.
[08:52] <bob2> that seems like massive overkill for something that will hopeuflly be unneccessary soon
[08:52] <wasabi> It won't ever be.
[08:52] <bob2> ie when kaffe/whatever can run everything
[08:52] <wasabi> Take CNI for instance. Sun's VM doesn't support that.
[08:52] <bob2> I've never heard of CNI
[08:52] <bob2> is it so common that it's unreasonable to make a wrapper for it?
[08:52] <wasabi> It's a replacement for JNI.
[08:53] <wasabi> Well, if you think it'll be unneccassary soon, you're too hopeful. Classpath will never implement the com.sun classes.
[08:53] <wasabi> They are undocumented.
[08:53] <bob2> people write java code that uses undocumented classes?
[08:53] <wasabi> Sure.
[08:54] <wasabi> All the time.
[08:54] <wasabi> That's OO's problem right now.
[08:54] <wasabi> But I can rattle off a half dozen apps I use during hte course of my work day that are similar.
[08:54] <wasabi> Or home day: azureus.
[08:55] <wasabi> Tomcat 4 uses com.sun classes. ;)
[08:55] <wasabi> And I still need to test apps against that.
[08:56] <bob2> what on earth are these people thinking?
[08:57] <Burgundavia> wasabi, sorry to bug you, but I have user asking after tomcat. It is currently in debian but not ubuntu.
[08:57] <wasabi> Classic Java stuff.
[08:57] <wasabi> Burgundavia, correct.
[08:57] <wasabi> Burgundavia, Tomcat4 uses com.sun classes and thus is in contrib in Debian.
[08:57] <wasabi> And unpackagable for Ubuntu.
[08:57] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:57] <wasabi> Tomcat5 removes the need for those classes, and will be in Debian shortly from what I understand.
[08:57] <wasabi> ANd then Ubuntu shortly after that.
[08:58] <lifeless> wasabi: what does II have to do with idiot programmers ?
[08:58] <lifeless> bah
[08:58] <lifeless> OO. or did you mean open office ?
[08:58] <wasabi> Yes.
[08:58] <lifeless> ah.
[08:58] <lifeless> java & OO in the same paragraph to me says 'object orientated'
[09:00] <Burgundavia> wasabi, thank you for that info
[09:18] <pitti> elmo: quota sync, please
[09:18] <elmo> pitti: already done
[09:18] <pitti> thanks
[09:24] <Duck_Happy> wasabi: install/<pkg>::
[09:24] <Duck_Happy> wasabi: look at the doc for more info
[09:25] <Duck_Happy> wasabi: <ad>https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml</ad>
[09:25] <Burgundavia> elmo, doc svn access
[09:28] <elmo> Burgundavia: oh, right, sorry
[09:28] <Burgundavia> elmo, np
[09:30] <Burgundavia> elmo, whenever is good
[10:29] <pitti> elmo: wget sync, please
[10:31] <fabbione> doko: can i spin up davis?
[10:31] <fabbione> doko: i am kinda in a hurry to test a fix
[10:36] <fabbione> (it won't take long.. i promise)
[10:37] <doko> $ w
[10:37] <doko>  09:37:28 up 19 days, 15:37,  3 users,  load average: 114.67, 32.98, 16.50
[10:38] <doko> looks like you don't stress it ;-P
[10:38] <fabbione> doko: i am only at -j200
[10:38] <fabbione> want me to push more?
[10:38] <fabbione> it's all I/O
[10:42] <Lathiat> what machines that?
[10:42] <fabbione> doko: 25% done already :)
[10:57] <fabbione> doko: 60% :)
[10:59] <doko> fabbione: you're flagging, load goes down to 80
[11:00] <fabbione> doko: that happens at link time.. it's not forkable
[11:04] <fabbione> doko: it's basically done with the load.. have fun
[11:06] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
[11:14] <Q-FUNK> does ubuntu happen to have a fixed debootstrap that patches Debian#314858?
[11:26] <chmj> Kamion: ping 
[11:53] <carstenh> thom: hi mentor :)
[11:53] <fabbione> Kamion: i won't manage to upload the kernel today
[11:53] <fabbione> there is some extra breakage that needs love too with the changes we pulled in
[11:56] <fabbione> hmm probably...
[12:02] <fabbione> ahhh simple fix
[12:21] <Reza_M> is there any ubuntu office in vancouver?
[12:22] <mdke> Reza_M, there is a canadian local team, made up of ubuntu users and volunteers
[12:23] <mdke> Reza_M, you will find them at #ubuntu-ca
[12:23] <Reza_M> Thanks!
[12:24] <carstenh> Reza_M: are you Saba. if yes, did you read the mail from jane weideman?
[12:24] <tseng> mdz: no problem :)
[12:26] <doko> chmj: please sync packages from Debian, if you apply changes (i.e. wget)
[12:28] <subjectdenied> hi
[12:28] <subjectdenied> coudl anyone help me with x-keyboard in breezy
[12:28] <subjectdenied> did some symlinks two weeks ago
[12:29] <subjectdenied> and still my german umlauts are not working
[12:29] <subjectdenied> switching terminals from X isn't working too
[12:33] <Lathiat> subjectdenied: have you upgraded to the latest version?
[12:41] <subjectdenied> Lathiat: yes
[12:42] <subjectdenied> Lathiat, however i created some symlinks before, i think on version 30 or something because pressing any key resulted in switching dsiplay resolution
[12:44] <fabbione> Kamion: never mind.. i might manage to get it in today
[12:47] <Kamion> daniels: I have no idea how to do errata for hoary
[12:47] <Kamion> fabbione: let me know when you decide ... :-)
[12:47] <Kamion> Q-FUNK: no, that's not something I've (knowingly) fixed
[12:48] <Kamion> chmj: pong
[12:55] <pitti> argh, the "doko rave" again
[12:57] <ogra> grmbl
[12:57] <ogra> spammer :)
[12:58] <Mez> omfg
[12:59] <Mez> I can tbeleive someone just requested portage as a backport
[12:59] <Treenaks> Mez: WTF?
[12:59] <mdke> good idea
[12:59] <Mez> yeah thats what I thought
[12:59] <Mez> so I told them it wasnt in debain or breezy, so speak to MOTU :P
[12:59] <doko> pitti, ogra: heh, I'm not yet finished ...
[12:59] <Treenaks> Mez: you should have told him about apt
[12:59] <Mez> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=44904
[01:00] <mdke> i think its a cool idea
[01:00] <mdke> might be fun
[01:01] <Lathiat> Whos responsible for the sparc/hppa ports?
[01:01] <mdke> but yeah, its in the wrong section of the forum
[01:01] <Mez> mdke ... If you wanna make portage work in ubuntu - go for it....
[01:02] <mdke> i can't do that
[01:02] <mdke> but it would be fun
[01:02] <Mez> put it forward to MOTU then
[01:02] <Mez> I'm sure ogra would do it for you
[01:02] <Mez> if you ask him nicely
[01:03] <ogra> haha
[01:04] <mdke> Mez, you seem confused about what MOTU does
[01:04] <mdke> packaging portage is only a fun idea
[01:04] <mdke> nothing more
[01:04] <Mez> MOTU maintins new packages to go into universe right?
[01:04] <Mez> portage would be a new pakcge
[01:05] <Lathiat> hrm, gnome-terminal breaks on upgrade cus the .glade was moved from g-t to g-t- data but g-t-data gets install first
[01:05] <ogra> would be fun to have a package called portage, that installs gentoo (the filemanager)
[01:05] <Lathiat> works the second time obviously
[01:35] <chmj> Kamion: dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.tar'
[01:36] <chmj> Kamion: any idea
[01:37] <ogra_> chmj, you built a native package by accident ?
[01:37] <fabbione> Kamion: yes :) rerunning the test build right now.. unfortunatly i hitted 3 problems in a raw.. if this build is ok, i will upload shortly
[01:38] <chmj> ogra_: no, I just did : bash$ apt-get source lsb-base 
[01:38] <ogra_> oh
[01:38] <chmj> does it on all packages, not lsb-base alone 
[01:44] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[01:44] <JaneW> pogra: I need a line or 2 of descriptions for your edubuntu summit talk topics asap please.
[01:44] <JaneW> ogra (even): I need a line or 2 of descriptions for your edubuntu summit talk topics asap please.
[01:45] <ogra_> JaneW, will do...
[01:45] <JaneW> ogra: Technical Track: Deployment Architecture & Technical Track: Menu Structure
[01:45] <JaneW> I MUST send it out today
[01:45] <ogra_> JaneW, ok
[01:56] <Zomb> which version of d-i was used for Hoary?
[01:57] <Zomb> I found few bugs there...
[01:57] <Zomb> is there any preview of the Breezy installer available, anywhere?
[01:58] <madduck> Kamion: please come to #debian-devel for a second.
[01:58] <tseng> Zomb: you'll want to catch Kamion 
[01:59] <madduck> Kamion: unping. sorry.
[02:02] <pitti> Hi madduck 
[02:03] <madduck> lol
[02:03] <madduck> i am just high on coffee, that's all.
[02:05] <mvo> hey madduck! how was linuxtag?
[02:20] <fabbione> carlos: ping?
[02:21] <carlos> fabbione, pong
[02:21] <fabbione> carlos: did you test the new initrd script from the bug?
[02:22] <fabbione> carlos: otherwise if you can reopen my account, i can create an initrd images for testing
[02:22] <carlos> sorry, I didn't see the email notifications....
[02:22] <carlos> sure
[02:23] <carlos> fabbione, done
[02:23] <fabbione> carlos: thanks
[02:24] <carlos> about the PATA vs. SATA problem, will test it tonight to know if it still happens
[02:25] <ogra> JaneW, legal issues ? 
[02:25] <fabbione> carlos: ok
[02:25] <ogra> JaneW, do you want me to write that too? or is it a typo in the spreadsheet ?
[02:26] <JaneW> ogra: damn... you are too sharp - I was hoping you wouldn't notice ;)
[02:27] <JaneW> ogra: who do you think should handle that - I was excited to hear that mdz will be there, so now we can give him tasks ;)
[02:27] <ogra> JaneW, i can write a sentence or two for that, but i'm not sure if mdz or sabdfl will really mean what i write there
[02:27] <Q-FUNK> re
[02:28] <ogra> JaneW, yes, i'm excited about that oo :-D
[02:28] <ogra> too even
[02:28] <JaneW> ogra: I think leave that one, I'll ask mdz or sabdfl to give me a line or so..
[02:28] <Q-FUNK> Kamion: allright.  any ETA on fixing it? :)
[02:28] <ogra> oki
[02:29] <fabbione> carlos: you should be ok to upgrade the kernel later this evening or tomorrow.. the new initrd script will take care of the megaraid stuff (thanks to jbailey )
[02:29] <Q-FUNK> Kamion: alternately, can I join in on the package's maintenance and help close at least a fe of those bugs?
[02:29] <pitti> Kamion: FYI, the coreutils LC_TIME symlinks are utterly useless; I notified the Debian maintainer and asked for removing them. If that lasts too long, we can also do it only in Ubuntu of course
[02:30] <carlos> fabbione, do we have it in breezy already?
[02:30] <carlos> fabbione, or will it work because you installed a modified version in my computer?
[02:31] <fabbione> carlos: it will work from later today
[02:31] <fabbione> in approx 6 hours
[02:31] <fabbione> i tested on your box...
[02:31] <fabbione> carlos: and btw.. you can remove my account 100%
[02:32] <carlos> ok
[02:32] <carlos> fabbione, thank you 
[02:32] <fabbione> no thanks to you!
[02:32] <fabbione> it's nice once in a while to be able to debug stuff on the machines :P
[02:32] <carlos> :-)
[02:33] <fabbione> Kamion: kernel + linux-meta on the way in 10 minutes
[02:33] <fabbione> Kamion: it might be a good idea to preseed them due to the abi change
[02:33] <fabbione> (and they will need NEW love)
[02:38] <TheMuso> .cl
[02:39] <ogra> JaneW, erm, and the sentence you have for "Menu Structure" is just fine, leave it like it is :)
[02:40] <JaneW> ogra: cool thanks
[02:47] <ogra> JaneW, Deployment: "What can we inherit directly from ubuntu, what do we do additionally"
[02:49] <\sh> mdz: ping
[02:51] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, do I have to build a custom kernel to support lirc?
[02:51] <ogra> \sh, LA time -> 5:49am
[02:51] <\sh> ogra: doesn't matter...at least his client is blinking ;)
[02:51] <ogra> heh, true
[02:52] <Kamion> chmj: no, doesn't do it on all packages, just those that were packaged native-style with non-native version numbers; I think Keybuk's going to fix dpkg-source
[02:52] <ogra> \sh, did you already start with powermanagement stuff ?
[02:52] <\sh> well i need asap a clean machine...for testing hoary to breezy updates
[02:52] <Keybuk> yes, I just need to talk to you about a small detail before I do ;)
[02:52] <\sh> ogra: no...i was waiting for u
[02:52] <Kamion> Zomb: it's hard to state a single version for d-i ... today's daily build of breezy should be usable for testing
[02:53] <Kamion> Q-FUNK: you'd need to talk to aj about that, preferably; I think he maintains debootstrap in darcs
[02:53] <ogra> \sh, your architecture will be different, so you could start right away...
[02:53] <Kamion> Q-FUNK: debootstrap is in an unstable phase at the moment, lots of new features but a fair few new bugs :)
[02:53] <Kamion> pitti: ok, thanks
[02:53] <\sh> ogra: k...
[02:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: just gonna grab a coffee then /msg ;)
[02:53] <ogra> \sh, probably interesting stuff: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnome-power-devel
[02:53] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, I'll get working on those
[02:54] <ogra> \sh, and http://gnome-power.sourceforge.net/index.php ... for details, feel free t bug me
[02:54] <ogra> to even
[02:54] <JaneW> ogra: ok, thanks
[02:54] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: not that i know off
[02:54] <fabbione> Kamion: the kernel is up.. i only miss linux-meta atm
[02:54] <\sh> ogra: which kernel 2.6.12?
[02:54] <ogra> \sh, yep
[02:54] <fabbione> Kamion: readding the skge was a pain :P
[02:55] <ogra> \sh, but the kernel is not the intresting point for us, hal is... and all te acpi patches hughsie has introduced are there already
[02:56] <\sh> ogra: k..what about special libs for python and hal?
[02:56] <ogra> \sh, so you can request all kind of stuff from hal
[02:56] <ogra> \sh, gnome-power is c
[02:56] <Kamion> fabbione: I'd have put orinoco and hermes in nic-shared-modules, myself
[02:57] <fabbione> Kamion: i didn't get around to clean nic-* and scsi-* yet
[02:57] <Q-FUNK> Kamion: allright then.  I'll ask him.  thanks
[02:58] <chmj> Kamion: is there a workaround ?
[02:58] <\sh> JaneW: hi btw :) 
[03:01] <ogra> \sh, there is python2.4-dbus and the hal page has some examples http://cvs.freedesktop.org/*checkout*/hal/hal/doc/spec/hal-spec.html?only_with_tag=HEAD
[03:02] <\sh> ogra: u r my man :)
[03:03] <ogra> \sh, dbus-monitor is also a very interesting tool... but sems broken currently
[03:03] <Lathiat> yeh i think it is
[03:06] <JaneW> hi \sh
[03:09] <Kamion> chmj: to unpack, use tar xzvf foo_bar.tar.gz; chmod +x foo-bar/debian/rules
[03:09] <Kamion> chmj: when creating a new version, use a proper version number
[03:09] <Kamion> chmj: but if you're tweaking an existing package in the archive, best just leave it for now
[03:10] <chmj> Kamion: willl leave is for now then
[03:10] <chmj> Kamion: i will leave it for now 
[03:10] <chmj> damn I can't type 
[03:18] <doko> pitti: I want to split java-gcj-compat in java-gcj-compat and java-gcj-compat-dev. what's the best time that the -dev package lands in main with a very short delay?
[03:18] <pitti> doko: that would be a time when elmo is available to NEW and promote it
[03:19] <pitti> doko: this doesn't require seed changes as it looks, right?
[03:20] <seb128> pitti: is libmpcdec somewhere on your list for this week?
[03:21] <Lathiat> wow 
[03:21] <Lathiat> 'host' is broken, it prints out '<name> is an alias' 3 times over for each one, hrm
[03:22] <doko> pitti: no
[03:24] <cogumbreiro> lo all
[03:25] <cogumbreiro> i would like to get CC'ed of every bug reports of the package "serpentine" is this possible?
[03:25] <ogra> cogumbreiro, i'll do :)
[03:25] <pitti> seb128: yes, it is
[03:25] <ogra> cogumbreiro, thanks for the offer
[03:27] <wasabi> Heh. STill not in the main keyring.
[03:27] <cogumbreiro> ogra: do you know who is packaging it?
[03:28] <ogra> cogumbreiro, seb128, but i care for the bugs
[03:28] <seb128> cogumbreiro: are you upstream for it ?
[03:28] <ogra> seb128, yep
[03:29] <cogumbreiro> seb128: "upstream"?
[03:29] <seb128> you should be set as QA for the package so
[03:29] <ogra> seb128, can you do that ?
[03:29] <seb128> sure
[03:29] <ogra> when pitti filed the bug, serpentine wasnt in main
[03:29] <seb128> cogumbreiro: upstream == who makes the applications
[03:30] <cogumbreiro> seb128: then yes :)
[03:30] <seb128> cogumbreiro: do you have a bugzilla.ubuntu.com account?
[03:30] <cogumbreiro> yes
[03:30] <cogumbreiro> cogumbreiro@users.sf.net
[03:30] <ogra> cogumbreiro, its a wondeful piece of softeare, i really like it :)
[03:30] <seb128> give me the email, I'll set you as QA for the package
[03:30] <seb128> thanks
[03:30] <cogumbreiro> i just found out tonight that serpentine was packaged on breezy, thx guys
[03:30] <mvo> ping do
[03:30] <mvo> ping doko 
[03:31] <seb128> cogumbreiro: hum, communication issue, we should have mailed you to say it ... 
[03:31] <cogumbreiro> one thing though, python-gnome2-extras has a broken module, "nautilusburn", which i am also the maintainer
[03:31] <ogra> cogumbreiro, i would have had to contact you anyway before breezy release
[03:31] <seb128> cogumbreiro: it's planned to be the default audio cd software for the current version
[03:31] <cogumbreiro> those are great news :)
[03:31] <seb128> cogumbreiro: what is broken with it ?
[03:32] <cogumbreiro> seb128: https://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=4356&group_id=3081
[03:32] <seb128> cogumbreiro: you don't use bugzilla.gnome.org ?
[03:32] <cogumbreiro> seb128: no :|
[03:33] <seb128> you should
[03:33] <bddebian> Hello
[03:33] <cogumbreiro> seb128: where should i ask for one?
[03:33] <seb128> gnome-python has it bugzilla on bugzilla.gnome.org
[03:33] <cogumbreiro> seb128: yeah, i know
[03:33] <seb128> cogumbreiro: speaking about nautilus bindings or serpentine?
[03:33] <cogumbreiro> seb128: nautilus-cd-burner bindings
[03:34] <doko> ping m
[03:34] <doko> ping mv
[03:34] <doko> ping mvo
[03:34] <bob2___> thom: laptop-detect has no vcs either, right?
[03:34] <Keybuk> hmm...  doko's been running Perl scripts over the archive again
[03:34] <cogumbreiro> also, i0ve just found some unmet dependencies in some gnome-python-extras2 and python-gtk2-dev
[03:35] <seb128> cogumbreiro: try on #bugs @ irc.gnome.org, ask for a gnome-python-extras component for it
[03:35] <seb128> oh? which ones?
[03:35] <lu|sleep> better to email bugmaster@gnome.org
[03:35] <thom> bob2___: in baz
[03:35] <cogumbreiro> g-p-e should depend on python-gtk2-dev and python-gnome2-dev
[03:36] <bob2___> thom: is there somewhere where  Icould find tarballs of it?
[03:36] <cogumbreiro> python-gtk2-dev should depend on: libglib2.0-dev libgtk2.0-dev python-dev
[03:36] <fabbione> Kamion: linux-meta uploaded
[03:36] <fabbione> Kamion: we only need the kernel to build, move to main and d-i
[03:37] <fabbione> Kamion: from now on there is nothing i can do...
[03:37] <thom> bob2___: only the ones in ubuntu
[03:37] <seb128> cogumbreiro: bugzilla.ubuntu.com knows about serpentine now and you are the QA so you will get mails about bugs
[03:37] <cogumbreiro> seb128: cool, thx :)
[03:37] <bob2___> thom: only released ones, then, I gues...unless the morgue is public?
[03:38] <cogumbreiro> seb128: which modules are installed by default in g-p-e? under ubuntu?
[03:38] <seb128> cogumbreiro: thanks for noticing the packages bug, I'll fix them
[03:38] <seb128> cogumbreiro: every upstream ones
[03:39] <seb128> hum, maybe not gdl because we don't have the lib to build it atm
[03:39] <Kamion> fabbione: seeds changed over
[03:40] <cogumbreiro> seb128: do you want me to bug report these? i'm creating a list with them and it will only finish once i am able to successfully compile them
[03:41] <seb128> cogumbreiro: list of what?
[03:41] <cogumbreiro> seb128: missing dependencies
[03:42] <seb128> what do you try to build to notice that?
[03:42] <seb128> the package build correctly ...
[03:43] <cogumbreiro> seb128: i have a fresh system, with almost no -dev packages installed
[03:43] <cogumbreiro> seb128: because of those broken deps i can't install g-p-e from source
[03:44] <ogra> cogumbreiro, a ubuntu system ?
[03:44] <ogra> cogumbreiro, did you run apt-get build-dep for the package you want to build ?
[03:44] <seb128> cogumbreiro: k, right
[03:44] <ogra> it should resolve cleanly
[03:46] <cogumbreiro> ogra: breezy, no
[03:48] <retrix> hi all, wondering if theres any google summer of code participants or mentors in here?
[03:48] <pitti> retrix: yes, should
[03:48] <bddebian> Summer of Code?
[03:48] <cogumbreiro> ogra: ok, the deps are getting fetched
[03:48] <mdke> bddebian, see the Ubuntu homepage
[03:49] <cogumbreiro> ogra: i thought a apt-get install would suffice
[03:49] <ogra> cogumbreiro, even better is to use a pbuilder, it tells you about all missing dependencys
[03:49] <seb128> that's not a build-dep issue
[03:49] <cogumbreiro> pbuilder?
[03:49] <ogra> cogumbreiro, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[03:49] <seb128> that's a Depends issue, and a part of it has been fixed for Debian, I'll fix that for Ubuntu soon
[03:49] <seb128> don't bother with a pbuilder
[03:49] <retrix> pitti: what do you mean?
[03:49] <seb128> you can put a bug though, so that's listed to do
[03:50] <pitti> retrix: I saw some participants here, and some of the developers in here are mentors
[03:50] <bddebian> mdke: I don't see it?
[03:50] <cogumbreiro> seb128: me?
[03:50] <seb128> yep
[03:51] <seb128> I'll fix that, but with a bug that's listed on bugzilla
[03:51] <retrix> pitti: ah k thanks
[03:51] <retrix> apparently ive been assigned to oliver grawert ... is he around in here?
[03:52] <mdke> bddebian, ok yeah it has been removed, try google for "summer of code"
[03:52] <mdke> retrix, he is called ogra
[03:52] <ogra> retrix, heya, welcome :)
[03:52] <retrix> thanks mdke
[03:52] <retrix> hi there ogra
[03:54] <bddebian> That is very cool
[03:56] <ogra> bddebian, if you'd hurry up with your MOTUness, you could be in my position ;) and at least work with the cool students ;)
[03:56] <ogra> *hint*
[03:56] <bddebian> ogra: I have been trying.  I don't know what to work on
[03:57] <bddebian> ogra: I was looking at the Cxx transition list just last night and it seems that they are already all patched at Debian!?
[03:57] <ogra> bddebian, UniverseCandidates ?
[03:57] <seb128> speaking about motu, a guy mailed about anjuta2 packages on the list today
[03:57] <ogra> seb128, i saw it, i'll answer
[03:57] <seb128> you guys should try to contact him to get that packaged for ubuntu
[03:57] <seb128> that's asked by GNOME people
[03:57] <ogra> yep
[03:59] <bddebian> ogra: Hmm, how did I miss that page??  Eeks
[03:59] <cogumbreiro> seb128: it says there's no python-gnome2-extras ...
[03:59] <jordi> pitti: ping
[04:00] <seb128> cogumbreiro: put one common bug for both package on python-gnome2
[04:00] <seb128> thanks
[04:00] <cogumbreiro> seb128: ok, i'll post it under python-gnome2
[04:00] <bddebian> Oh oh, I wanna do XPde :-)
[04:01] <pitti> hey jordi
[04:02] <jordi> pitti: I did a pg_dump and now try to restore it
[04:02] <jordi> jordi@pusa:~$ pg_restore -U triatlo -C bd-triatlo-20050627.4.5.0
[04:02] <jordi> pg_restore: [archiver]  input file does not appear to be a valid archive
[04:02] <jordi> why am I getting this?
[04:02] <Mithrandir> jordi: try psql databasename < $file ?
[04:02] <pitti> jordi: yes, as Mithrandir says
[04:03] <jordi> not yet
[04:03] <jordi> I was going to cat |psql though :)
[04:03] <Mithrandir> jordi: well, that's the same except you're showing your love of cats.
[04:03] <jordi> I love them
[04:03] <jordi> I someties do cat |less
[04:04] <cogumbreiro> seb128: done https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12221+
[04:04] <cogumbreiro> (ignore the +)
[04:04] <jordi> ERROR:  permission denied to set session authorization
[04:04] <jordi> ERROR:  must be owner of schema public
[04:04] <jordi> is this bad?
[04:05] <pitti> jordi: did you use pg_dump or pg_dump all (as postgres)?
[04:05] <pitti> pg_dumpall, even
[04:05] <seb128> cogumbreiro: thanks
[04:05] <jordi> pg_dump
[04:06] <pitti> hm, that should work fine
[04:06] <pitti> pg_dump mydb | psql mydb.new should copy a db
[04:06] <pitti> jordi: can you please file a debian bug or just mail me the exact commands you issued?
[04:06] <jordi> yes
[04:06] <pitti> jordi: together with "psql -l" output
[04:07] <jordi> it could be that the perms in this database are a bit fucked.
[04:07] <jordi> address?
[04:07] <jordi> got it
[04:07] <pitti> jordi: martin@piware.de
[04:08] <pitti> jordi: could be
[04:09] <jordi> pitti: I did createdb -O triatlo triatlo 
[04:09] <jordi> might that -O be a problem?
[04:09] <pitti> looks fine
[04:09] <jordi> k
[04:09] <chrissturm> guys, i have a problem getting pbuilder running. i followed this howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto, but always used breezy instead of hoary
[04:10] <chrissturm> and i got this: I: Configuring dpkg-dev...
[04:10] <chrissturm> W: Failure while configuring base packages.  This will be attempted 5 times.
[04:10] <pitti> jordi: ah, the old and new db have different owners?
[04:10] <ogra> chrissturm, you have to set up a hoary chroot first, then update (as described in the howto)
[04:11] <jordi> pitti: could be, because the owners in the db were a bit fucked up
[04:11] <jordi> pitti: sent
[04:11] <pitti> jordi: if you think that should work in general, feel free to write a bug
[04:11] <chrissturm> ahhh. ok
[04:11] <pitti> jordi: if that is a rather special problem, you can always edit the dump :-)
[04:12] <jordi> pitti: I actually don't know. I would suispect PEBKAC quite easily :)
[04:12] <Kamion> fabbione: d-i upload ready, I'll wait for the kernels actually to be there
[04:13] <fabbione> Kamion: uhuhu cool
[04:13] <fabbione> it will build..
[04:13] <fabbione> i did test on all 4 arches..
[04:13] <pitti> jordi: if you change the owner, I'd try with "pd_dump -O yourolddb | psql newdb"
[04:14] <ogra> Kamion, does that mean w get a Colony this weekend ? 
[04:14] <ogra> we even
[04:14] <fabbione> Kamion: i am going off for the day.. as usual i have my mobil phone with me
[04:14] <fabbione> Kamion: call/sms me if needed
[04:14] <jordi> pitti: the owner should always be "triatlo", but I think a few tables were a bit fucked up
[04:15] <jordi> pitti: for example, some look like this:
[04:15] <jordi>  public | watchdog_wid_seq              | {triatlo=a*r*w*d*R*x*t*/triatlo}
[04:15] <jordi> others:
[04:15] <jordi>  public | watchdog                      | {triatlo=a*r*w*d*R*x*t*/triatlo,jordi=a*r*w*d*R*x*t*/triatlo}
[04:15] <jordi> but I can't tell if this is bad
[04:15] <jordi>  public | vocabulary_node_types         |
[04:15] <jordi> others haqve nothing in the privileges field
[04:20] <pitti> jordi: just to get a clear idea, did you issue all the commands as normal user or as "postgres"?
[04:20] <jordi> as my own ser
[04:20] <jordi> user 
[04:20] <pitti> ok
[04:20] <jordi> but in the past, who knows. Probably as postgres too
[04:20] <jordi> this is an old db
[04:21] <jordi> It'd be cool to fixup the mess
[04:21] <pitti> jordi: do you have half an hour? then I could finish the thing I'm currently workign on
[04:21] <jordi> I know I modified stuff as the psql user "jordi" too in the past.
[04:21] <jordi> pitti: sure, I can cycle home while you're at it
[04:22] <jordi> pitti: ttyl
[04:22] <pitti> cu
[04:22] <jordi> and thanks
[04:22] <Kamion> ogra: if I can get it out the door today I will - we'll see
[04:22] <ogra> wow :-D
[04:23] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, thanks
[04:23] <Kamion> almost forgotten how to do them, it's been so long :P
[04:23] <JaneW> is there a tech board tonight?
[04:23] <Kamion> JaneW: 20:00 UTC
[04:24] <JaneW> Kamion: thanks... I'll try to be there (but I can't promise...)
[04:28] <Kamion> JaneW: likewise ;)
[04:28] <JaneW> :)
[04:28] <JaneW> bye
[04:37] <bob2___> so, how do I use an IPP printer to print a pdf?
[04:37] <Mithrandir> bob2___: I use lp -d $printer file.pdf
[04:38] <Mithrandir> which works if you've set up CUPS for $printer
[04:38] <pitti> bob2___: print it in evince? or lpr? or lp?
[04:38] <pitti> bob2___: do you see the IPP printer?
[04:38] <bob2___> $printer is a windows machine
[04:38] <pitti> hm, is that really IPP then?
[04:38] <Mithrandir> bob2___: so?  Just add it using gnome-cups-admin.
[04:38] <bob2___> I gather so
[04:39] <pitti> bob2___: if you enable "Detect LAN printers" in gnome-cups-manager, IPP printers should appear automagically
[04:39] <pitti> not SMB printers, of course
[04:41] <bob2___> ah, it's a cups print server, it seems
[04:43] <bob2___> ah, and it works
[04:43] <bob2___> thanks folks
[04:45] <pitti> bob2___: enabling the LAN browse option helped?
[04:46] <sladen> daniels: your RSS feed has eaten the wiki
[05:05] <mdz> \sh: pong
[05:06] <\sh> mdz: regarding https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11907 
[05:06] <mvo> good morning mdz 
[05:07] <\sh> mdz: i can't give u the old interfaces anymore, but I changed it on hoary, and after breezy dist-upgrade there was the default interfaces file back...with hotplug stuff inside
[05:07] <ogra> hey mdz, goals updated :)
[05:07] <mdz> ogra: thanks
[05:07] <pitti> mvo: right now it should be afternoon for him as well :-)
[05:07] <mvo> pitti: oh, he is already in london?
[05:08] <ogra> pitti, oh, its 01 already ?
[05:09] <pitti> oh, right
[05:10] <ogra> ah, i just thought i missed the plane, phew *g*
[05:10] <jordi> pitti: I'm back.
[05:10] <pitti> jordi: I /msg you
[05:10] <jordi> Does anyone know if Claire has a PGP key she uses?
[05:10] <jordi> pitti: ok
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: hmm, I should have mentioned in the email to announce the changed meeting time :-)
[05:12] <jordi> or, does Claire IRC?
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: so we do have the meeting at 1700? 
[05:14] <pitti> mdz: if so, we should change the topic in #u-m
[05:14] <Kamion> oh
[05:14] <Kamion> I can't make 1700 at all, I have a prior engagement. oh well
[05:14] <cvd> jordi: ping
[05:15] <jordi> ah, the magic of IRC
[05:15] <jordi> cvd: pong :)
[05:15] <mdz> Kamion: sorry about that, I had an engagement myself that I forgot about
[05:16] <ogra> whoops
[05:16] <mdz> pitti: would you update the topic and send a note to the mailing list?
[05:16] <Kamion> mdz: well, you're a TB member and I'm not, so you win ;)
[05:16] <pitti> mdz: I'd like to have Kamion's opinion about the langpacks, too, but I just ask him beforehand
[05:16] <pitti> mdz: I do that, yes
[05:17] <mdz> pitti: well, we could always discuss this on the mailing list.  is there a reason it has to go before the tech board?
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: the main reason is that it's easier to get an opinion from the key folks in TB meeting than on the ML
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: and the decision has a pretty big impact
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: however, nothing that intrinsically requires TB, I just need a decision and a consensus
[05:19] <pitti> mdz: see #u-m, there seem to be many people who can't attend at 17000
[05:19] <pitti> s/0$//
[05:20] <pitti> Kamion: if you have a minute, could you please write a short comment about the "Preparing tomorrow's language pack TB topic" mail?
[05:20] <Kamion> pitti: I thought we talked about this before
[05:21] <pitti> Kamion: did we?
[05:21] <pitti> Kamion: I only remember talking about not splitting -support and instead installing kde-i18n-foo in d-i
[05:21] <Kamion> ok, give me a minute to clear up the other thing I'm talking about at the moment
[05:22] <pitti> sure, it's not that urgent
[05:23] <Riddell> I can make any time
[05:23] <Riddell> mdz: do I still need to fix seeds repository permissions?
[05:23] <pitti> mdz: mail sent
[05:24] <pitti> tseng: in 90 minutes
[05:24] <tseng> est rather
[05:24] <tseng> in 90 minutes i think ill just be getting back from lunch
[05:24] <tseng> i only need to be there for the first bit
[05:25] <tseng> (maintainer candidates)
[05:25] <tseng> ill try.
[05:25] <mdz> Riddell: I mv'd ++revision-lock out of the way and created a new one by hand, seemed to work
[05:25] <mdz> Riddell: but it would seem to imply that your umask is still masking off group writability
[05:33] <Kamion> Riddell: put 'umask 002' at the top of ~/.bashrc (above the PS1 check)
[05:34] <daniels> sladen: yes, I know
[05:35] <Riddell> seems like a bug if baz doesn't work right with the default ubuntu umask (0022 here)
[05:35] <Kamion> pitti: anything in particular you want from me?
[05:36] <Kamion> Riddell: "bug in baz" shocker. :-)
[05:36] <Kamion> Riddell: (but it's a bit tricky to fix properly apparently - I remember having a long discussion with lifeless about sftp ages ago)
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: I just like to collect some opinions whether or not the current udu spec is sane
[05:38] <Kamion> pitti: basically any of those options is possible to implement in the installer
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: adding 400 more packages is much overhead and will cause elmo pains (and pains in the upgrading, too)
[05:38] <Kamion> pitti: so the concerns ought to be (a) archive maintenance (b) upgrades
[05:38] <pitti> right
[05:38] <Kamion> pitti: and I think I agree that having both KDE and GNOME translations in aggregated langpacks won't work
[05:39] <Kamion> we're running pretty short on space as it is
[05:39] <Kamion> pitti: you might also like to consider a variant of option (3): language-pack-xx for GNOME, language-pack-kde-xx for KDE
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: it's asymmetrical I know, but it would help with upgrade issues
[05:40] <wasabi_> I assume you all have elmo locked in a closet?
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: so KDE users would get Gnome translations, too?
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: it would be possible to put the {other} category in both sets of langpacks
[05:40] <Mithrandir> wasabi_: we call it "the data centre".
[05:40] <Kamion> ?
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: that helps for the Ubuntu CDs, but not for the KDE cds
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: not if you put shared translations in both
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: ah, if they replace each other, that would be possible
[05:41] <wasabi_> is there anybody else who can add my key to the main keyring?
[05:41] <Kamion> pitti: however, that's really nasty :-)
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion: but then they should rather be called -ubuntu and -kubuntu
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion: if Kubuntu was a real derivative, that would not be an issue in the first place
[05:41] <Kamion> pitti: perhaps that variant is best avoided, on further reflection
[05:41] <Kamion> wasabi_: only elmo
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion: but I didn't want to split packages per derivative
[05:42] <Riddell> pitti: what do you mean by real derivative?
[05:42] <Kamion> Riddell: different archive
[05:42] <pitti> Riddell: with it's own archive, seeds, and so on
[05:43] <Riddell> right
[05:43] <pitti> Riddell: then langpack-o-matic can DTRT for the particular derivative
[05:43] <Kamion> Riddell: i.e. so that you could have different language-pack-xx packages
[05:43] <mvo> mdz: do you mind if I upload a new python-apt to unstable? 
[05:43] <wasabi_> Okay then, so Elmo is locked in the data center... and he's the only one who can add keys.
[05:43] <wasabi_> So what is the recourse? Just wait?
[05:43] <Kamion> pitti: would the base/update separation still be needed for language-pack-xx with option (3)? presumably it would get a lot smaller
[05:43] <mdz> mvo: certainly not
[05:44] <pitti> Kamion: I think this is rather orthogonal
[05:44] <Kamion> pitti: sure, but it would decrease the problem from 400 to 300 at least ...
[05:44] <pitti> Kamion: the base/update split was originally intended for surviving with daily updates
[05:45] <mvo> mdz: can I base it on python-apt--mvo--0? or would you rather like to see a more conservative approach (then I would just rebuild the version from experimental and upload a new version into experimental based on python-apt--mvo--0)
[05:45] <pitti> Kamion: but since it was decived to update only once per month, we could actually drop it if that is an issue
[05:45] <Kamion> pitti: if elmo's happy with that, so am I
[05:46] <pitti> ok, fine; thanks for your input
[05:46] <Kamion> P.S. would it be possible for apt uploads in the future to say *what* they changed, rather than just "merged from branch x"?
[05:46] <Kamion> pretty please
[05:46] <Kamion> I have no idea what features 0.6.38ubuntu1 introduced
[05:47] <mdz> mvo: is --mvo-- the same as breezy?
[05:47] <mdz> Kamion: they did
[05:47] <mvo> mdz: that and a bit more (like support for the pkgProblemResolver) and improved native python interface
[05:48] <mdz> Kamion: it's all in the changelog, exactly as with merging from Debian
[05:48] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I see, it's in the older changelog entries but not in the .changes file, ok
[05:48] <Kamion> -v :-)
[05:48] <mdz> ah, yes, I should have used -
[05:48] <mdz> -v
[05:48] <mdz> I did remember to use -v for Debian
[05:49] <mdz> which resulted in a fairly enormous .changes
[05:49] <Kamion> mm, I can imagine
[05:51] <mdz> hmm, no debbugs reports about the new apt yet, strange
[05:51] <mdz> is debbugs working? :-P
[05:51] <mvo> mdz: dburrows complained already :)
[05:51] <mvo> (on deity)
[05:51] <Kamion> yes :-)
[05:51] <mdz> hmm, I just read deity and didn't see mail from him
[05:52] <mdz> in fact I don't see anything since June 13th on deity
[05:52] <Kamion>  225 Ns  Jun 28 Daniel Burrows  (  39) Unannounced library transitions CONSIDERED HARMFUL
[05:52] <mdz> unread
[05:52] <mdz> perhaps it hasn't reached me yet
[05:52] <mvo> I posted some stuff to deity since 13 ... 
[05:52] <mdz> yes, but I've probably read them already
[05:53] <jordi> bad, bad mdz :)
[05:54] <mdz> jordi: give me a break, it's unstable
[05:54] <mdz> people forget what it was like before the freeze :-P
[05:54] <Kamion> hmm, I had better make sure all the apt 0.6 stuff in d-i is merged
[05:54] <mvo> jordi: everyone was screaming for apt-0.6, now they have it :)
[05:55] <mdz> I pre-announced this months ago, that I would upload it after sarge released :-P
[05:55] <mdz> so dburrows had plenty of advance notice
[05:55] <Kamion> mvo: Debian are going to need the trust-cdrom stuff pretty soon, I'm betting
[05:55] <jordi> mdz: hey, I'm happy with the upload.
[05:55] <jordi> *very*
[05:55] <jordi> mvo: yeah. But you, YOU: don't touch my strings.
[05:56] <mdz> fortunately bubulle has helped get translators focused on 0.6
[05:56] <mvo> Kamion: if it isn't merged already it's in mdz's queue (I can check now if you if it's urgent)
[05:57] <mvo> jordi: I uploaded a whole bunch of new, fresh and shiny strings for you into rosetta. all of the ubuntu package descriptions
[05:58] <mdz> mvo: oh, nice
[05:58] <jordi> mvo: and I found out some utf-8 was fucked up in them!
[05:59] <mvo> jordi: yes, a problem with the Packages file, it contains some invalid utf-8 and that confused my tools pretty badly
[05:59] <jordi> mvo: yeah
[06:00] <mvo> mdz: yes, we have a set of tools to import export package files and translations from/to rosetta. the result is compatible with apt--ddtp (that should *fingers-crossed* work pretty well)
[06:00] <jordi> strangely enough, apt-cache show myspell-nb does show it ok
[06:00] <jordi> does apt6 have the ddtp patch?
[06:00] <mdz> mvo: but perhaps we should fix the terrible English descriptions before asking for them to be translated ;-)
[06:00] <mdz> jordi: not yet
[06:01] <jordi> mdz: yeah
[06:01] <mvo> jordi: yes, I hope to fix that tomorrow and upload a new pot file (unfortunately rosetta does not allow me to upload anything right now, noone seems to know why)
[06:01] <jordi> some descriptions are not so good :)
[06:01] <mvo> mdz: you mean we should have a translation into Packages->english too :P
[06:01] <mdz> l10n-en
[06:01] <jordi> hah
[06:02] <mvo> jordi: apt0.6 does not have it right now, but the baz branch for it is up-to-date and I fixed some bugs with otavio. I think it's in pretty good share, it needs more testing of course
[06:02] <mvo> and the fronends needs patching, but that's easy (and I have patches somewhere for aptitude and synaptic)
[06:03] <jordi> mvo: sweet
[06:06] <mvo> arrrgg, s/share/shape/
[06:07] <jordi> I'm buying apt shares
[06:07] <mvo> heh :)
[06:07] <Kamion> 17:06 < waldi> apt needs to use the correct keyring first, cdebootstrap chokes with the new version because of uncheckable Release files
[06:07] <Kamion> has that been reported?
[06:07] <mdz> Kamion: not to me
[06:08] <jordi> pitti: sent
[06:08] <mdz> Kamion: does cdebootstrap run apt unconfigured or something?
[06:08] <Kamion> mdz: entirely possible
[06:08] <mdz> it copies the keyring into place in postinst
[06:08] <mvo> Kamion: I just upgrade 5 minutes ago and I don't got the correct key. but that might be because my install is "interessting" because of the various test versions of apt that I had installed 
[06:09] <fabbione> Kamion: amd64 is built.. i expect the others to follow pretty soon
[06:10] <mdz> ogra: in the future, please put the date of the status update at the very beginning of the column (prefixed)
[06:10] <ogra> oki
[06:11] <fabbione> mdz: linux changed to linux-meta..
[06:11] <fabbione> mdz: we only need to ge the kernel and all the other goodies in place
[06:11] <fabbione> and i am offline again for the night
[06:12] <fabbione> cya tomorrow
[06:12] <mdz> fabbione: ok, thanks
[06:12] <mvo> bye fabbione 
[06:24] <pitti> ogra: I installed gnome-power, I don't have anything new in the menu
[06:24] <ogra> pitti, hmm, gamin bug ? 
[06:24] <pitti> ogra: so I just started gnome-power-preferences, which displays a dialog
[06:25] <ogra> pitti, it should be in System->settings
[06:25] <pitti> ogra: I can change something, but it isn't preserved when closing
[06:25] <pitti> ah, there
[06:25] <pitti> ogra: so that doesn't require any root stuff?
[06:25] <ogra> pitti, gnome-power-manager must be added either to your session (or we add it to dbus like NM)
[06:25] <pitti> I can't believe that
[06:26] <ogra> pitti, it will need something in the backend, but thats not gnome-power itself... gnome-power only sets gconf keys currently.... pmi shoudl care about the rest
[06:26] <ogra> pitti, look in gconf editor
[06:26] <pitti> ogra: ah, so this just modifies gconf, no /etc files? easy then
[06:27] <pitti> ogra: ah, and g-p-manager reads out gconf and talks to pmi over dbus/socket/whatever?
[06:27] <ogra> the redhat way is to just call echo "disk" > /sys/power/state, we should have pmi here
[06:28] <ogra> (look in gconf editor in the scripts section of gnome-power, i havent adjusted the default yet)
[06:28] <pitti> ogra: you cant to that without root
[06:29] <ogra> pitti, but please in pmi, not in the gui tool ;)
[06:29] <daniels> ogra: dbus!
[06:29] <ogra> pitti, the same way its solved in gnome-session
[06:29] <pitti> ogra: alright
[06:29] <ogra> daniels, this part of gnome-power isnt dbus
[06:29] <pitti> thanks
[06:29] <pitti> ogra: so what's the purpose of g-p-manager then?
[06:30] <pitti> ogra: the manpage does not tell anything about it
[06:30] <Lathiat> to be a frontend to a backend?
[06:30] <ogra> pitti, also if you enable the main icon in the prefs and right click it, there are shutdown suspend etc options, this will disappear in the next release
[06:30] <pitti> Lathiat: well, storage is done by gconf, and there is no dbus, so what's left?
[06:31] <ogra> pitti, i'm waiting for the new release next week, there the apps will have options, worth writing a real manpage
[06:31] <ogra> pitti, the purpose of gnome-power is to hibernate/shutdown your box if battery gets low etc... 
[06:32] <pitti> ogra: that's obvious
[06:32] <ogra> like all the options say
[06:32] <Lathiat> pitti: wellfor example ,gnome-power-manager puts a battery for my laptop in the system tray...
[06:32] <Lathiat> and does for UPS,mice, etc, apparently
[06:32] <pitti> ogra: I mean, does pmi read the options over -manager? or directly from gconf=
[06:32] <ogra> gnome-power calls the scripts currently
[06:32] <pitti> Lathiat: ah, so it's an applet-ish thing?
[06:32] <pitti> ok, that makes more sense
[06:32] <ogra> pitti, eable the main icon in the second tab
[06:33] <ogra> it putts the battery status in the tray
[06:33] <pitti> ogra: it's on by default, but I don't get an icon
[06:33] <ogra> and gives you acces to the options in the right click menu
[06:33] <pitti> well, I don't have a battery for that matter
[06:33] <Lathiat> pitti: are you ona laptop?
[06:33] <Lathiat> right
[06:33] <ogra> pitti, haha
[06:33] <ogra> pitti, get a battery then ;)
[06:34] <pitti> ogra: no wires to attach it to
[06:34] <ogra> a wireless mouse would do ;)
[06:34] <ogra> or keyboard or a UPS :)
[06:34] <pitti> ogra: ok, I think I have an idea about -manager now, thanks
[06:34] <Lathiat> or write a fake driver ;p
[06:34] <ogra> pitti, oki
[06:35] <Lathiat> maybe a life meter :)
[06:35] <Lathiat> takes your DoB and estimated date of death :)
[06:35] <ogra> Lathiat, pitti is the HAL maintainer, he could patch in a virtual battery there ;)
[06:35] <Lathiat> would be as reliable as most laptop batteries :)
[06:35] <ogra> heh
[06:36] <pitti> Lathiat: to resemble a battery it shuold display the time until the next meal
[06:41] <Lathiat> pitti: hm, that could work :)
[06:43] <mvo> mdz: just FYI, I uploaded the version from experimental of python-apt for now (I'll update a new version later when I have a bit more time)
[06:43] <mdz> mvo: ok
[06:43] <mvo> (into debian/unstable that is)
[06:44] <niran> speaking of python-apt, is there any documentation for it somewhere?
[06:44] <mvo> niran: there is doc/examples 
[06:45] <mvo> and irc :P
[06:45] <mvo> it's really a weak point
[06:45] <mvo> niran: what bits are you interessted in? 
[06:45] <niran> mvo, ok, i'll poke around
[06:45] <niran> i'm trying to search
[06:46] <mvo> niran: in the package name? in the description? you may want to checkout the python-apt--mvo--0 branch. it contains a filteredcache object that can be used as a search interface (depending on your needs of course)
[06:47] <mvo> niran: oh, you are the GSoC FindingPackages person :)
[06:47] <niran> mvo, yeah :)
[06:48] <niran> mvo, i'm trying to make this search box actually do something: http://niran.org/gai.png
[06:48] <niran> mvo, both the name and description
[06:48] <mvo> niran: can we talk about the FindingPackages stuff in a bit (e.g. ~20:00UTC)? I'm your "mentor" and I'm happy to help 
[06:48] <niran> mvo, sure
[06:48] <mvo> niran: your screenshot looks sexy!
[06:49] <niran> mvo, that's what i'm aiming for :)
[06:49] <niran> i never knew that gnome-panel-screenshot added in drop shadows... if only those actually existed when running the program
[06:50] <mvo> niran: let's make it 20:00UTC and we can see how much we can get out of python-apt
[06:50] <mvo> :)
[06:50] <niran> mvo, sounds good
[06:50] <\sh> mvo: something against one more? ,-)
[06:50] <mvo> \sh: you are welcome too of course :)
[06:50] <mdz> technical board meeting in 10 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
[06:52] <mdke> meeting time has changed?
[06:52] <pitti> yes, TB meeting in 8 minutes
[06:59] <mdz> Keybuk, sabdfl-afk #ubuntu-meeting
[07:09] <Kamion> infinity: how far along is the linux-source-2.6.12 i386 build?
[07:09] <elmo> judging by nagios, it's finished
[07:09] <elmo> only weddell is left yellow-lining
[07:09] <elmo> (ia64)
[07:13] <thom> elmo's hi-tech monitoring solutions, inc
[07:14] <daniels> he is, after all, the human nagios
[07:15] <elmo> well I haven't figured out a "ignore-fabbione-proving-he's-the-man" plugin for nagios' monitoring of the buildds yet :-P
[07:16] <Treenaks> elmo: install this for him: http://www.hadess.net/files/stuff/vpenis.c
[07:17] <Mithrandir> elmo: just hack the load plugin to ignore fabio's processes? :-)
[07:19] <Kamion> elmo: ah, yes, I see it uploaded now
[07:20] <CarlFK> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LAMPForHoary universe is needed to build a LAMP box - is this true?
[07:21] <Nafallo> CarlFK: yes
[07:21] <CarlFK> thanks - im supprised, but such is life. universe it is
[07:22] <chrissturm> carlfk: why dont you ask in #ubuntu?
[07:22] <Nafallo> CarlFK: I use LAPP ;-) postgresql instead of mysql. that's in main :-).
[07:22] <CarlFK> chrissturm - I did
[07:23] <thom> i don't see which bits of linux, apache, mysql and php4 aren't in main
[07:23] <chrissturm> they are all in main
[07:23] <CarlFK> php4-mysql
[07:23] <Lathiat> yeh php4-mysql
[07:24] <thom> ah
[07:24] <thom> sucks to be php4
[07:24] <Lathiat> be ncie if that was rectified
[07:24] <Lathiat> why is it not in main?
[07:25] <Amaranth> weren't they some license issues with php and mysql?
[07:25] <Lathiat> there are?
[07:25] <Lathiat> it has to be one of the most popular things to use on linux
[07:25] <Lathiat> i wouldnt have thought
[07:25] <Amaranth> Lathiat: MySQL is GPL and PHP isn't
[07:25] <Amaranth> or something like that
[07:26] <Amaranth> i know php.net stopped shipping php4 with mysql
[07:26] <CarlFK> Amaranth - but both of those are in main, just not the glue
[07:26] <chrissturm> how do i propose something thats in universe for main? i would really love to have ruby in main
[07:26] <Amaranth> with the mysql extension, rather
[07:26] <Amaranth> CarlFK: Just because they are in main doesn't mean you can use them together.
[07:27] <CarlFK> Amaranth - because of licencing?
[07:27] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:27] <Amaranth> MySQL is GPL, PHP is PHP License
[07:28] <Amaranth> i think they got it all sorted out for php5, but php4 didn't ship with the mysql extension
[07:28] <chrissturm> amaranth: if it has licensing problems, why is it in universe and not in multiverse?
[07:28] <CarlFK> oh yeah, the umbrella effect...
[07:29] <Amaranth> chrissturm: Either it was resolved or someone forgot.
[07:30] <Lathiat> well, these kind of problems isnt raeally a multiverse problem
[07:30] <Lathiat> its more a "this shouldnt exist" kinda problem
[07:30] <Lathiat> aiui
[07:31] <Amaranth> debian-legal probably has something about it in the archives
[07:32] <Lathiat> haha
[07:32] <Lathiat> wrong channel
[07:32] <Amaranth> ?
[07:33] <Amaranth> no, i know where i am :P
[07:33] <Amaranth> i'm saying read d-l to see what they decided
[07:34] <Amaranth> really php4-mysql is either completely legal or shouldn't be there at all, so i have a feeling they figured something out
[07:34] <Lathiat> Amaranth: no ;p
[07:34] <Lathiat> i mean that 'haha' was in the wrong channel ;p
[07:34] <Amaranth> oh
[07:38] <CarlFK> should I buzilla the "php4-mysql is either completely legal or..." issue?
[07:38] <tseng> php4-universe isnt about legality
[07:38] <tseng> its about supportability
[07:38] <tseng> that said mysql in there is supposedly a mistake
[07:39] <CarlFK> mysql and php4 are in main, php4-mysql is in universe
[07:42] <Amaranth> oh, php4-mysql is legal
[07:42] <Amaranth> they added an exception for Free licenses
[07:42] <Mitario> hello everyone
[07:42] <Amaranth> so yeah, put that sucker in main :)
[07:48] <CarlFK> woo!  4 of kind!  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12222
[07:49] <elmo> Kamion: do you need this stuff in main?
[07:49] <elmo> or are you already dealing with that?
[07:50] <Amaranth> CarlFK: I'll be with you in a couple hours, when bugzilla finishes loading
[07:51] <Amaranth> malone may look like crap but at least it loads fast :/
[07:51] <Amaranth> CarlFK: ack, don't quote me in the bug! i don't know what i'm talking about
[07:52] <CarlFK> no hurries - this is just one of a few test runs...
[07:52] <CarlFK> lol
[07:52] <CarlFK> but you spoke with shuch conviction
[07:53] <CarlFK> I would hope there is a bit more checks and balances than "someone in IRC said it was OK"
[07:54] <Kamion> elmo: which stuff?
[07:55] <elmo> Kamion: new 2.6.12
[07:55] <Kamion> elmo: er, yes :-)
[08:13] <carstenh> pitti: hi, i just read that you are my new mentor :)
[08:13] <pitti> Hey carstenh, right
[08:14] <Kamion> elmo: are debian-installer's dep-waits going to auto-clear?
[08:15] <elmo> Kamion: should do, I'm just teri-ing + anastacia-ing now
[08:15] <elmo> I REALLY need to rip that second CPU out of jackass
[08:16] <Lathiat> elmo: whys that?
[08:17] <elmo> it's made cron.daily about 5x slower
[08:19] <maswan> up/smp issue? booting an smp kernel might be quicker than opening the box?
[08:19] <elmo> maswan: heh, good point
[08:19] <elmo> clearly I need MORE CAFFIENE
[08:20] <maswan> elmo: we have (had) a few two-way fileservers booting up kernels due to performance
[08:20] <elmo> maswan: something in apt-ftparchive on this box does NOT like SMP - it's weird
[08:20] <maswan> hmm.. since I suggested booting an smp kernel when I meant a non-smp kernel. :)
[08:21] <maswan> elmo: Weird. Btw, the disk issue is finally moving. So soon<tm> we can setup some more mirroring. :)
[08:22] <elmo> yay
[08:22] <Lathiat> maswan: ooh whats happening?
[08:23] <maswan> Lathiat: a cdimage mirror too over here, not just release+archive. :)
[08:23] <Lathiat> maswan: i meant disk wise
[08:23] <Lathiat> like whatching getting :)
[08:24] <maswan> Lathiat: some more in the ftp.acc.umu.se cluster. :)
[08:24] <Lathiat> heh, DONT YOU HAVE ENOUGH ALREADY ? :)
[08:25] <maswan> Lathiat: of course not, if we had enough, we would have mirrored cdimage earlier. ;)
[08:26] <Lathiat> maswan: whats the brand of that fiberstuf you use
[08:26] <Lathiat> miranet or something
[08:26] <elmo> upload.ubuntu.com is going down for a reboot
[08:27] <maswan> Lathiat: at work, we use myrinet and dolphinics sci as interconnect in the two computaitonal clusters. myrinet is the fiber stuff.
[08:27] <maswan> Lathiat: at the computer club the SP switch is copper, not fiber. :)
[08:27] <Lathiat> maswan: yeh i think i more meant that opteron cluster you were talkign about
[08:27] <maswan> Lathiat: ah, the opteron cluster uses myrinet
[08:28] <Lathiat> right
[08:28] <Lathiat> thansk
[08:28] <Lathiat> knewit was something like that
[08:29] <elmo> whee, glad I didn't try THAT from Leeds
[08:29] <mdz> kamion: I totally don't see that mail from dburrows
[08:29] <mdz> and I've received subsequent mail on deity
[08:29] <mdz> mizar:[~/src/deb/mine/arch/apt/ubuntu]  grep -i harmful ~/mail/procmail.log*
[08:29] <mdz> zsh: exit 1     grep -i harmful ~/mail/procmail.log*
[08:32] <elmo> okay, so #2650 is alive and well and still as deadly as ever
[08:33] <elmo> Mid-air collision detected!
[08:34] <mdz> haha
[08:34] <Lathiat> elmo: that, leeds ?
[08:35] <elmo> Lathiat: rebooting a machine 200 miles away that subsequently didn't come back
[08:35] <Lathiat> elmo: ah, thought so
[08:37] <ogra> mdz, did you want me to merge ffmpeg in hoary for #10534 ? (i havent any data to test it yet, but after days of work and a lot o fiddling it compiles clean on all arches at least)
[08:58] <mxpxpod> I'm trying to upgrade to breezy and I get a bunch of conflicts
[08:58] <mxpxpod> and I can't seem to fix it by doing apt-get -f install
[08:59] <CarlFK> mxpxpod - did you want your box fixed, or help posting bug reports?
[08:59] <mxpxpod> CarlFK: I can do bug reports... but I'd like my box fixed ;)
[08:59] <JanC> pitti : during the meeting you said: "... not that OO.o wouldn't be scary on any but the latest and greatest number crunching hardware"
[08:59] <JanC> I use OOo 1.x on a P3 @ 666MHz (Win2k & breezy) & on a K6-2 @ 500 MHz without problems (it's just slow to start up)
[09:00] <tseng> JanC, eh, michael meeks is hacking hard on it
[09:00] <mdz> can someone translate from baz into english?
[09:00] <mdz>   CHECKSUM FILE(S) DISAGREE WITH
[09:00] <mdz>   DIRECTORY LISTING ABOUT WHAT
[09:00] <mdz>   FILES SHOULD BE PRESENT IN
[09:00] <mdz>   REVISION DIR OF ARCHIVE
[09:00] <JanC> tseng : I have no complaints, pitti seems to have  :)
[09:00] <Lathiat> "You broke it" -- baz
[09:00] <ogra> why does baz shout at you ?
[09:01] <ogra> looks angry
[09:01] <Lathiat> we're all so helpful
[09:01] <pitti> JanC: OO.o 1 is still bearable, although it already sucks compared to gnumeric and vim
[09:01] <pitti> JanC: but OO.o 2 is unbearable on my iBook G4
[09:01] <mdz> hmm, apparently that translates to "there was a full tree tarball in the patch-11 dir and I didn't expect there to be one"
[09:01] <mdz> moving it out of the way fixes things
[09:01] <mdz> of course, baz itself put it there
[09:01] <lamont__> mdz: one possiblility is that your keyring lacks a key you need to verify things
[09:01] <ogra> mdz, lol
[09:01] <Lathiat> pitti: gnumeric+abiword is like 10 billion times faster
[09:02] <Lathiat> pitti: abiword will load in 1 secondon my altpop where as openoffice takes 8
[09:02] <lamont__> mdz: another is that there is cruft.  tagging something twice has broken things for me in the past
[09:02] <Lathiat> pitti: the 5400rpm doesnthelp
[09:02] <pitti> Lathiat: no need to convince me :-)
[09:02] <pitti> Lathiat: I'm a LaTeX dude
[09:02] <JanC> 15 seconds to start OOo2 Writer on my P3 @ 666 MHz
[09:02] <JanC> that's not unbearable...
[09:02] <mxpxpod> CarlFK: so, any help getting my box to a useable state?
[09:03] <KaiL> JanC: from ramdisk? ;)
[09:03] <JanC> no, a Seagate Barracuda that's 5 years old
[09:03] <JanC> 7200rpm I think
[09:04] <CarlFK> mxpxpod - doubt it - once I am to that point, I post whatever seems usefull and then start over
[09:04] <JanC> in fact, OOo1 writer is slower to start up... 
[09:04] <CarlFK> mxpxpod - did you try to upgrade a "working" box?
[09:04] <mxpxpod> CarlFK: yup
[09:05] <KaiL> JanC: strange, it's 20sec here (Sempron 3100+, Samsung SP1214N)
[09:05] <Lathiat> yeh i found OO2 is no worse if not slightly better
[09:05] <Lathiat> i guess thatmeans thatnew stuff is up to pace with performance improements
[09:05] <Lathiat> heh
[09:05] <Lathiat> oo.o2 still look sugly when integrated with gtk too
[09:05] <tseng> the recent shots ive seen are not that bad
[09:05] <Lathiat> lathiat->sleep();
[09:05] <CarlFK> mxpxpod - um... post the bug reports and hope that the solutions help you?
[09:06] <JanC> KaiL : I have 512 MiB RAM / 36% in use before I started OOo
[09:06] <JanC> that might make a difference...
[09:06] <JanC> Lathiat : OOo2 is ugly, yes, but it's ugly on Windows too  :-(
[09:06] <KaiL> also 512MiB here - maybe it's the KDE-Integration
[09:07] <JanC> ah, Ubuntu here, no Kubuntu  :)
[09:07] <mxpxpod> CarlFK: got it.. I found a bug report with a workaround that fit my problem
[09:07] <CarlFK> mxpxpod - luck you -make a backup quick ;)
[09:08] <JanC> anyway, I just wanted to tell OOo isn't _that_ bad, even if Abiword is a lot faster
[09:09] <KaiL> JanC: but Abiword doesn't have all the features
[09:09] <JanC> KaiL : that's why I use OOo Writer  :)
[09:10] <JanC> I regularly get Word & Excel files from members of a non-profit I work for  :-/
[09:10] <pitti> JanC: gnumeric opens excel just fine :-)
[09:10] <JanC> s/work/volunteer/
[09:11] <JanC> pitti : most of the files are .doc
[09:11] <ivoks> pitti: yeah, but where did non-profit get money for office? :)
[09:11] <KaiL> I always wonder, why there are more non-profit the comercial companies with MS products
[09:11] <ogra> ivoks, it was preinstalled ?
[09:11] <JanC> ivoks : we have not much money, so I use OOo  :)
[09:12] <ivoks> ogra: office? i don't think so...
[09:12] <CarlFK> KaiL - thats why they arn't profitable 
[09:12] <ivoks> JanC: heh, for me money is irrelevant when it comes to office - i use LaTeX :)
[09:12] <JanC> this is customer group with clients from my ISP
[09:13] <JanC> so most of them even don't know the difference between Word & Windows...
[09:13] <ivoks> heh, most of them don't know that maximized and non-maximized word is the same app :)
[09:13] <JanC> :)
[09:19] <SEBest> JanC : where is this meeting log?
[09:19] <JanC> on my hard disk & in my X-Chat window  :)
[09:19] <tseng> meeting logs are announce to ubuntu-devel
[09:20] <SEBest> can we download it somewhere?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> SEBest, see the topic from #ubuntu-meeting
[09:20] <SEBest> thx
[09:22] <CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences says "Please use Launchpad's forgotten password page instead." at the top and " If you forgot your password, provide your email address and click on Mail me my account data." in the middle.  is the top temporay?
[09:25] <mdke> CarlFK, the top is right
[09:26] <mdz> there ought to be a direct link
[09:26] <mdke> yeah
[09:26] <mdke> i put in a request
[09:29] <mdke> mdz, you may find /wiki/FeatureRequests and /wiki/BugReports useful ;)
[09:30] <mdz> mdke: does hno73 monitor those?
[09:31] <mdke> mdz, yes he writes most of them, and is subscribed to the pages
[09:31] <mdz> ah, good
[09:48] <carstenh> sabdfl: hi, who will be the copyright-holder of code written for summer-of-code?
[09:51] <JanC> the author, I guess ?
[09:52] <HiddenWolf> JanC, or the organisation that pays the author, or the organisation that recieves the code, ubuntu. :P
[09:52] <JanC> or both  :)
[10:02] <CarlFK> at lest for mambo: "All of the code submitted must be contributed under the terms of the GPL license and is subject to the standard Mambo copyright terms"
[10:02] <sabdfl> carstenh: the author, in general
[10:03] <carstenh> sabdfl: ok, thanks
[10:03] <CarlFK> carstenh - "You or your mentoring organization must license your code under a license palatable to your mentoring organization. Some organizations will require you to assign copyright to them, but many will allow you to retain copyright. If Google is your sponsoring organization, then you keep the copyright to your code." http://code.google.com/summfaq.html
[10:05] <\sh> hmm...I hope the actual cvs head version of jabberd2 is much more stable then jabberd2-2.0s8
[10:05] <\sh> stupid characterset problems
[10:05] <carstenh> CarlFK: thanks, i already knew this :) i wanted to know how ubuntu handels this
[10:09] <sabdfl> carstenh: if it's a project which currnelty requires copyright assignment, then that will still apply (Gnu, for example)
[10:09] <sabdfl> GNU, sorry
[10:09] <sabdfl> currently, even
[10:11] <carstenh> sabdfl: ok, thanks. i don't think it requires copyright assignment. maybe i can use my project for university too, but that would probably require double licensing (GPL and "do what you want with it for educational stuff" for my university)
[10:12] <carstenh> and if i would be the copyright-holder this wouldn't be a problem ;)
[10:12] <ivoks> gpl is do what you want
[10:12] <sabdfl> carstenh: should be fine
[10:12] <carstenh> sure, but i don't know (and even they don't know) if they would like only gpl
[10:13] <carstenh> ok, thanks for your time :)
[10:17] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, if I where ubuntu, I'd put some work into the bounties page that's linked to from the frontpage. It looks half-completed and uninviting, without status' etc
[10:17] <HiddenWolf> just my 2cents
[10:22] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: which page exactly?
[10:26] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, can't find the link now, it was the list with bounty candicates for the summer of code, a yellow box on the frontpage linked to it... still browsing.
[10:26] <Burgundavia> there is a page on the udu wiki
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: here?
[10:26] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSocApplications
[10:27] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, no, it was on the main site, can't find it now, nm
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: pong
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: did the latest X broke my graphics driver and made it slooow, or is it a new feature of gdm that the screen builds up block-wise?
[10:29] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: this one? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: I would blame xorg
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: how new is that?
[10:30] <JanC> HiddenWolf : or http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties  :)
[10:30] <HiddenWolf> neither
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: two or three days maybe
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: all apps are fine, video playing works, too, it's just gdm
[10:31] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, can't seem to find it now, but it was a page on the main wiki, in the ubuntu style, not the udu-wiki bounty possibilities for google code applicants
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: gdm is not slow here and 2.8.0.0 has been uploaded like 10 days ago ... I would blame xorg
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: ok :-)
[10:32] <JanC> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
[10:32] <JanC> that one is linked fro mthe google SoC site
[10:32] <pitti> $ ldd  /usr/sbin/gdm|grep gtk
[10:32] <pitti>         libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0xb7c65000)
[10:32] <pitti> ^ ah, GTK bug then...
[10:32] <HiddenWolf> JanC, ah, yeah, sorry. :S
[10:32] <seb128> pitti: I still have a xorg 6.8.2-2 weeks ago though
[10:33] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, ^^
[10:33] <JanC> and this https://wiki.ubuntu.com//BountyProposals is linked from there
[10:33] <seb128> pitti: ah ah :p
[10:33] <JanC> lit seems like there are too many bounty sites  :)
[10:34] <JanC> s/lit/it/
[10:34] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//BountyProposals ?
[10:34] <sabdfl> that's totally community driven, i think
[10:35] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
[10:35] <HiddenWolf> I was mistaken, probably
[10:43] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: happens to me all the time too :-)
[10:44] <sivang> seb128: hi seb, did you talk to jamesh?
[10:45] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl, you probably have a better excuse ;)
[10:46] <niran> sabdfl, the BountyProposals page isn't the accurate list of accepted proposals
[10:47] <niran> sabdfl, I can wikify the spreadsheet that JaneW sent out if you want
[10:47] <HiddenWolf> niran, is wikify a word? :P
[10:47] <niran> HiddenWolf, probably not, but it should be :)
[10:47] <sabdfl> niran: i think BountyProposals is supposed to be an open community "make your suggestion here" list
[10:48] <sabdfl> what would be good is to highlight the Google accepted bounties in BreezyBounties
[10:48] <niran> sabdfl, oops, I meant http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSocApplications
[10:48] <niran> sabdfl, that page has some of the accepted apps, and some that were rejected
[10:49] <sabdfl> niran: well, let's just add an accepted / declined marker there
[10:49] <sabdfl> what would really be cool is to have a nice Google image for that
[10:49] <sabdfl> and to use that on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties too... next to anything which is being sponsored by google
[10:49] <seb128> sivang: no
[10:50] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, then I will email him, that would be probably a better way to reach him due to the different time zones
[11:07] <mxpxpod> ok, I got hoary upgraded from breezy on my ibook, but when I start xorg, it tells me it can't find the fixed font
[11:08] <Mez> mxpxpod, It's a known problem,, look on the forusm in the breezy section, there's an answer there (I'm just yrting to find a link)
[11:09] <Mez> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=232047
[11:10] <mxpxpod> ok
[11:11] <sabdfl> night all
[11:11] <\sh> g'night sabdfl and thx again
[11:12] <Mez> hehe
[11:12] <Mez> sabdfl looks like the nbarman at my local nightclub
[11:18] <bddebian> heh
[11:48] <Burgundavia> elmo, ping
[11:50] <Mez> hmm
[11:50] <Mez> weird error
[11:50] <Mez> when my PC boots... it wontm mount my hard disk properly, but if i do sudo mount -a it will
[11:50] <Mez> any ideas anyone
[11:51] <mdke> #ubuntu?
[11:51] <Mez> ^_^ whoops