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=== Topic for #kubuntu-devel: Kubuntu 5.04 Released http://www.kubuntu.org/hoary-release.php | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Kubuntu
=== Topic (#kubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Fri Apr  8 09:50:53 2005
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[09:37] <\sh> Riddell: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10464 is it actual?
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[09:50] <pef> hello
[09:56] <\sh> hmmm...just patched akregator 
[10:00] <pef> how can I find the right section in the control file for a package ? Is there any recommendations on how to choose a suitable section ? In the Debian documentation I only found this : http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[10:02] <pef> my package is datakiosk
[10:02] <pef> at the moment I think x11 is the most apropriate
[10:03] <\sh> pef: less /usr/share/lintian/checks/fields.desc and search for section
[10:06] <pef> \sh: thank you :)
[10:07] <pef> any kde apps should have kde section ?
[10:08] <\sh> depends...kmail has mail as section
[10:09] <\sh> but the source (kdepim) has x11
[10:11] <pef> ok
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[11:29] <hunger> These vanishing and reappearing kwallets are a PAIN!
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[11:40] <hunger> The ksysguard applet is broken for good now...
[11:41] <hunger> It can no longer display any data! It used to be only broken for cpufreq, then it worked again for a while, now it is completly dead.
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[12:22] <Ayako> hi!
[12:26] <pef> hi
[12:29] <Ayako> pef: it's normal that www6.erodia.net is not responding? 
[12:30] <pef> Ayako: yes, my gateway (wrap with m0n0wall) doesn't support ipv6, I will work at this later
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[01:30] <\sh> Riddell: please  have a look on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10464 ...
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[03:21] <hunger> What do I need to do to get a kde session in gdm/kdm after installing kubuntu-desktop?
[03:24] <uniq> select KDE from the session list.
[03:24] <hunger> uniq: How do I get it listed there?
[03:24] <hunger> uniq: It is missing:-(
[03:24] <uniq> hmm.
[03:26] <uniq> the display managers find the .desktop file in /usr/share/xsesions/
[03:26] <hunger> uniq: Only gnome there...
[03:27] <uniq> ksmserver should provide the kde file.
[03:27] <hunger> And shouldn't that kind of data reside in /etc?
[03:28] <uniq> apparently not.
[03:28] <hunger> uniq: Might be a good idea to add that to kubuntu-desktop...
[03:28] <uniq> kubuntu-desktop should bring it in.
[03:28] <hunger> uniq: It does not.
[03:28] <uniq> kwin and kdebase depends on it.
[03:30] <hunger> uniq: I did install kubuntu-desktop (it is at the newest version), but I was missing ksmserver.
[03:30] <uniq> you installed it from the official ubuntu repositories right? 
[03:30] <uniq> 3.4.0? 
[03:30] <hunger> uniq: Official breezy.
[03:31] <uniq> ok. breezy. i'll check.
[03:31] <hunger> uniq: Last updated about an hour ago.
[03:32] <uniq> well.. kdebase in breezy depends on ksmserver too.. 
[03:32] <uniq> what if you try to apt-get install ksmserver? 
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[03:33] <froud> hi, where can I download a colony 1 ISO for kubuntu?
[03:34] <uniq> froud: not available.
[03:34] <froud> :-(
[03:34] <hunger> uniq: Then a desktop file shows up in /usr/share/xsession.
=== hunger wonders whether he has to log into kde three times for it to work (as he has to do with gnome).
[03:36] <uniq> ah.. nice one.. you discovered a problem with kubuntu-desktop.
[03:36] <uniq> kwin only suggests ksmserver and kdebase is not a dependency at all.
[03:37] <hunger> uniq: Good:-)
[03:37] <hunger> uniq: I was already starting to doubt my sanity.
[03:37] <hunger> uniq: (k)ubuntu behaves *really* strange today.
[03:38] <uniq> heh.. i just installed kubuntu on a pc at work today.. and it was so easy. i was sure i did something wrong.
[03:39] <hunger> uniq: Well, my laptop is too new for ubuntu:-(
[03:39] <uniq> oh.
[03:39] <hunger> uniq: Need all kinds of stuff that is not in ubuntu or is too old there.
[03:39] <hunger> uniq: And I am refering to breezy here;-)
[03:39] <uniq> the work-laptop i installed on is a few years old. so everything was just working. that's nice :)
[03:40] <uniq> hunger: oh. pretty new laptop then )
[03:40] <uniq> :)
[03:40] <hunger> uniq: Yep... T43p
[03:41] <hunger> A really nice machine... unfortunately so far only in windows.
[03:42] <uniq> that is a very nice machine. 
[03:44] <hunger> uniq: tpm module doesen't work with breezy's (new) kernel, WLAN needs a newer wireless-tools, ubuntu insists on hdparm'ing the SATA drive and spams the screen failing, suspend and hibernate are broken, gnome does not start the first two times a user logs in, ...
[03:45] <hunger> No idea whether the modem will work, IRDA and bluetooth is untested, buttons do not work yet.
[03:46] <hunger> At least the thinklight works... so it was worth getting a thinkpad;-)
[03:46] <uniq> hehe :)
[03:47] <uniq> sounds like fun.
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[03:47] <uniq> sounds like fun.
[03:59] <uniq> riddell: updated kubuntu-desktop to add ksmserver. at http://frode.kde.no/ubuntu/breezy/kubuntu-desktop - please upload to breezy. thanks :)
[04:01] <uniq> a nice bonus for people to be able to login to kde after installing kubuntu-desktop :)
[04:04] <hunger> uniq: Thanks for fixing this so fast!
[04:06] <uniq> hunger: no problem, just need riddel to upload it for me. i don't have upload access.
[04:08] <hunger> Hmmm.... why does the CDROM icon stay behind after I selected to have it ejected and have actually removed the CD from the drive?
[04:09] <uniq> in media:/ ? 
[04:09] <hunger> No, on the desktop
[04:09] <hunger> Hmmm...
[04:09] <uniq> no idea.
[04:09] <hunger> looks like a problem here... kde just crashed.
[04:09] <uniq> oh.
[04:10] <hunger> And before that the gnome did behave *really* strange... so I think I have some issue here.
[04:15] <pef> I've build ubuntu package for datakiosk, I'v mentionned this here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuSuggestedPackages under "Suggested Packages that are being worked on", now where should I submit my package for review ?
[04:15] <uniq> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
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[04:16] <uniq> i can also take a look at it if you want.
[04:16] <pef> it's uploading..
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[04:37] <pef> uniq: if you have a few time to have a look : http://dl.erodia.net/kubuntu/datakiosk/
[05:02] <pef> uniq: oups, forget, I've missed the build-depends
[05:26] <uniq> pef: tell me when you're ready, if i'm not here i'll read the awaylog and look at it when i get some time.
[05:31] <uniq> riddell: updated kubuntu-default-settings with kuserrc changing start uid and gid to 1000 instead of 500. to close #11854
[05:32] <pef> uniq: I won't miss
[05:36] <allee> uniq: just a weird idea, not sure if it works.  kconf allows to execute programs to get the value.  so something like grep '^UID_MIN=' | awk ... 
[05:36] <allee> s/works/is worth/
[05:37] <uniq> why would you want that? 
[05:38] <allee> He, min_uid is 20000 on some hosts here (local uid policy)
[05:39] <uniq> hmm.. well.. 
[05:39] <uniq> users this is kubuntu-default-settings :)
[05:39] <uniq> -user
[05:39] <uniq> +s
[05:39] <allee> So if, for whatever reason someone changes local setting via login.defs  kuser will pick it up automaticly.  But I guess only a minority changes the value
[05:40] <allee> uniq: yes, it's default.  But to change it one has to fix a hardcoded 1000 in at least 2 places.
[05:40] <uniq> i'm aware of that.. the feature would be nice, but don't know where we should place that script.
[05:42] <allee> uniq: directly in the conf file.  I don't remember what value[$ ]  is necessary to get embedded command executed
[05:42] <uniq> so we sould execute that each time kuser starts? 
[05:42] <uniq> hmm.. 
[05:43] <allee> uniq: nevertheless it's a patholigic example. Your example just reminded me that there is such a feature.  maybe really handy at other places
[05:43] <uniq> yeah, totaly agree :)
[05:44] <uniq> +l
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[09:11] <froud> nightly update to http://lnix.net/~froud/ complete
[09:15] <uniq> great :)
[09:16] <froud> gotta keep notifying people. hoping we can get more people to contribute
[09:16] <uniq> yes, your work is great :)
[09:17] <uniq> http://lnix.net/~froud/kubuntu-install/C/ch05.html
[09:17] <uniq> really nice.
[09:17] <froud> all will change if there is a graphical installer. 
[09:18] <froud> I wonder if somebody here could check what I did with the .desktop files for kubuntu docs
[09:18] <froud> I got it working on my system, but I am not sure I did it correctly
[09:18] <uniq> which file do i check? 
[09:19] <froud> everything in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/khelpdesktop
[09:19] <froud> instruction in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/khelpdesktop/READ.INFO
[09:19] <uniq> reading.
[09:22] <uniq> and you're wondering what you did to make it work? 
[09:23] <froud> no it works as a plugin, but I am not sure this is the correct way to do it :-)
[09:23] <uniq> or if it's the correct way to do it?
[09:23] <uniq> ah. ok.
[09:25] <uniq> i think it's the correct way.. but i'm no khelpcenter guru.
[09:25] <froud> he he, ok
[09:26] <uniq> should ask riddell or amu when they get back.
[09:26] <froud> now I need somebody to make a debian/ folder so we can test packaging
[09:27] <uniq> that i can do.
[09:27] <froud> OK
[09:27] <froud> basically
[09:27] <froud> there's a few steps
[09:28] <froud> 1. in kde/ do make kall
[09:28] <froud> 2. tarball all of build/kde
[09:28] <froud> + the the stuff in kdesktophelp
[09:28] <froud> install it in the locations described in READ.INFO
[09:29] <froud> there are no dependancies
[09:30] <froud> as you can see I have used kio-slave help for things like CSS and links to upstream KDE docs
[09:30] <uniq> when you say kde/, you're talking about https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/ right? 
[09:30] <froud> yes see Makefile
[09:30] <froud> Make kall build everything in build/kde/
[09:31] <uniq> ok. got it.
[09:31] <froud> if I can get a package built I will upload it, nightly, to linx.net/~froud
[09:32] <froud> uniq: do we need to make a src package
[09:32] <uniq> there will be a source package automatically.
[09:32] <froud> kubuntu-doc and kubuntu-doc-src ??
[09:33] <uniq> no need for that.
[09:33] <froud> OK leave it to you :-)
[09:33] <froud> thanks again for your help
[09:33] <uniq> thank YOU :)
[09:34] <uniq> for your help on kubuntu docs :)
[09:34] <froud> np
[09:41] <froud> has there been any decision between OOo and KOffice?
[09:42] <uniq> not that i know of. riddell and amu are busy with other stuff right now. and they are pretty much the kubuntu core.
[09:43] <froud> sure, just thought somebody may have had news
[09:43] <uniq> i'll tell you when i find out.
[09:52] <allee> froud: your desktop files use in DocPath complete URLs, while app desktop files use patch relativ to /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/<lang>/
[09:53] <froud> allee: what does kde use en or C
[09:54] <froud> allee: I have not seen a language example in plugins
[09:54] <allee> froud:  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML has on en no C so I guess it's en
[09:55] <allee> froud: but what <lang> is used is determined by controlcenters language settings
[09:55] <froud> yes
[09:55] <froud> I am not sure what I need to do about i18n
[09:56] <froud> at docteam our xml becomes pot and placed in Rosetta
[09:56] <froud> we get back po files and create lang specific xml
[09:56] <allee> froud: did you try install below /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/<lang>/kubuntu/?
[09:56] <froud> then we store each lang in its own folder
[09:56] <froud> I can
[09:56] <froud> its a small change
[09:57] <allee> that how khelpcenter docs are organized
[09:57] <froud> OK thanks
[09:57] <allee> KDE docs are also splitted in POT and later reasambled.  Beast that does this is scipty afaik
[09:58] <froud> we use poxml from kdesdk
[09:58] <froud> and then have our own scripts 
[09:59] <froud> I will also take a look at scripty
[09:59] <allee> mhmm there lots of Name[<lang>] =<empty> string.  Is this correct?  Shouldn't they be removed to the fallback Name= is used?
[10:00] <froud> where are you seeing that?
[10:00] <allee> No I have english desktop
[10:00] <froud> me too :-)
[10:00] <froud> we are not using the kde make files
[10:01] <froud> perhaps we should
[10:01] <froud> but then we also do not use the KDE DTD
[10:02] <froud> so the language stuff and transformations for all langs is done by us and then packaged
[10:02] <froud> each lang has its own doc pack, I think
[10:03] <allee> A Kubuntu DTD is fine here ;)   Btw. is there a variant of the ubuntu brownish CSS stuff that is blueish?
[10:03] <froud> allee: we use the docbook dtd no custom layer
[10:03] <froud> CSS is from kde
[10:04] <froud> we get it from help://khelpcenter/common/
[10:04] <froud> But I dont know how to add the blue top that you get in all other kde docs
[10:04] <allee> sorry fround I skipped form help:/ stuff to www.ubuntu.org CSS assuming you can read my mind :(
[10:05] <froud> It would be need if we could have Kubuntu branding in the header of Kubuntu Docs
[10:06] <allee> look at any KDE index.cache.bz2  to find out there customizations come from
[10:06] <froud> allee: CSS used is from KDE upstream. Trying to keep at least the formatting looking the same
[10:06] <froud> OK
[10:07] <allee> btw. before you get a wrong impression.  content if far more important (congrats).  Nice outfit is a goody IMHO
[10:08] <froud> sure, thanks. I was actually hoping one of the developers could help me figure out the outfit stuff. I am good with docbook but not much good with the outfit stuff
[10:10] <allee> froud: polishing is done before release ;)
[10:11] <froud> sure, thanks for the tip on those index.cache.bz2 files that has given me some direction. It's like figuring out a big jigsaw puzzle :-)
[10:11] <allee> lol.  the puzzle is fast at least;)
[10:12] <froud> with your help, yes
[10:19] <allee> mhmm, when one uses a admin doc/Makefile.am doc/kubuntu/*.docbook as in all kde apps.  You get the KDE outfit for free (assume the header of the kde docbook)
[10:20] <allee> looking at build log of kde apps:
[10:20] <allee> $ /usr/bin/meinproc --check --cache index.cache.bz2 /home/ach/kde/kipi/digikamimageplugins/0.7.3/digikamimageplugins-0.7.3/./doc/pt_BR_digikamimageplugins/index.docbook
[10:21] <froud> even when you dont use the kde.dtd?
[10:22] <allee> froud: no idea.  Btw. what would be the problem to use kde.dtd.  AFAIU it's a docbook extention (or whatever the right SGML name is for it)
[10:22] <froud> some docs are profiled and therefore shared for gnome
[10:23] <froud> like the install guide
[10:23] <froud> also using KDE DTD reduces possabilities
[10:23] <froud> for example print output
[10:23] <froud> xml > xsl;fo > pdf
[10:23] <allee> hmm, would it be hard to replace browish with blueish? in the ubuntu.dtd
[10:24] <froud> we dont have an ubuntu.dtd only the docbook.dtd
[10:24] <froud> do you see brown now?
[10:24] <froud> u using a gnome desktop?
[10:25] <froud> the css file used in help://common/kde-default.css
[10:25] <allee> froud: X again broken on breezy here.  So all I see right now is stuff on the web :(
[10:25] <froud> Ah
[10:25] <froud> if you r using konqueror or khelpcenter it will use the css above
[10:26] <froud> the cross refernces between Kubuntu docs to KDE docs also use the help:/ io-slave
[10:27] <froud> so we can do help://foo-app
[10:27] <froud> help:/foo-app
[10:27] <froud> At this time I will ship only HTML
[10:27] <allee> I promise to fix X once again and try (hopefully uniq has some debs then ;)
[10:28] <froud> mainly because of publishing features
[10:28] <froud> KDE allows this
[10:28] <froud> but in GNOME they only want to ship XML
[10:29] <allee> can konqy display XML already?
[10:30] <froud> no
[10:30] <allee> :(
[10:30] <froud> I dont think it should
[10:30] <froud> xml is not made for presentation
[10:30] <froud> its faster to load xml
[10:31] <froud> its faster to load html
[10:31] <froud> sorry
[10:31] <froud> but it seems that in kde the html is compiled into bz2
[10:31] <allee> I know that docbook is slower (that's the reason why index.cache.bz is there;) how does gnome help display the XML stuff?
[10:32] <allee> I assume otherwise kde docs get too big
[10:32] <froud> yelp does on the fly transformation
[10:32] <allee> without bz2
[10:32] <froud> yes
[10:32] <froud> bz2 makes sense
[10:32] <uniq> froud: fyi yelp can't read .xhtml.gz. i asked shaunm.
[10:32] <allee> khelpcenter does on the fly of *.docbook too but it's slow due to docbook -> html conversion
=== uniq goes back to packaging.
[10:33] <froud> but not using the nwalsh xsl if you dont have equivalent xsl is not an option IMHO
[10:33] <froud> uniq: Hmm, I thought it did. thanks for the update
[10:33] <froud> allee yes
[10:33] <froud> meinproc
[10:33] <allee> bbl
[10:33] <uniq> froud: reads gziped info and manpages.. but not xhtml
[10:34] <froud> he  he
[10:34] <uniq> he said it's easy to implement though.
[10:34] <froud> OK
[10:35] <froud> uniq: for now I just want to ship the html. Perhaps we can use bz2 to make it smaller
[10:35] <froud> allee I have not used the .docbook extension
[10:35] <uniq> froud: we can think about that later. first make the docs, then make the package, and then optimize later :)
[10:36] <froud> cool
[10:46] <uniq> /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/docbook.xsl
[10:46] <uniq> can i have a copy of that file please? 
[10:46] <froud> sudo apt-get docbook-xsl
[10:47] <froud> uniq: do you have a full checkout of https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[10:48] <uniq> no, and i don't want that either :)
[10:48] <uniq> i just want kde-stuff for this package.
[10:48] <froud> Hmm if you want to build you will need it
[10:48] <froud> we have shared external entities
[10:48] <uniq> no, i need libs/ common/ and this file.. 
[10:48] <froud> sure that will work too :-)
[10:48] <uniq> i include what i need file by file :)
[10:48] <uniq> to make a clean package.
[10:49] <froud> OK but you dont need to package those for HTML
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[10:49] <pef> hi
[10:50] <uniq> froud: i just do 'make kall'.
[10:50] <froud> OK
[10:51] <uniq> and make kall asks for this file.
[10:52] <froud> yes it is part of docbook-xsl so you can do sudo apt-get install docbook-xsl
[10:52] <froud> its not a single file, but a whole package
[10:52] <uniq> ok. great.
[10:53] <uniq> thanks.
[10:53] <froud> no thanks to you
[10:53] <uniq> (i should have thought of that myself, didn't boother searching packages.ubuntu.com)
=== Mez [~mez@82-36-228-130.cable.ubr01.perr.blueyonder.co.uk]  has joined #kubuntu-devel
[11:16] <froud> nite all
=== KabelKasper [~vloechte@i5387E71E.versanet.de]  has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] 
[11:43] <Riddell> uniq: around?
[11:43] <uniq> riddell: yes
[11:43] <uniq> nice to se you around :)
[11:43] <Riddell> uniq: amd64 kde 3.4.1 on kubuntu.org now, could you test
[11:44] <Riddell> yes sorry, been moving house
[11:44] <uniq> ah ok, no problem.
[11:45] <uniq> i closed some bugs in kubuntu-desktop and kubutu-default-settings too.
[11:45] <uniq> and i have a kio-apt test-package ready.
[11:45] <uniq> i can download and test the packages, yes.
[11:55] <Riddell> uniq: koffice too
[11:57] <uniq> ok. will restart dist-upgrade.