[02:42] <Treenaks> hi
[02:42] <Treenaks> what's " Dutch, Middle (ca. 1050-1350) " doing in my Preferred Languages list?
[02:47] <jamesh> Treenaks: is it listed in any of the other boxes on the right on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta/ ?
[02:47] <Treenaks> jamesh: not by default I think
[02:48] <Treenaks> let me see
[02:48] <Treenaks> no
[02:48] <jamesh> Treenaks: I mean, is it listed in the "languages in Countryname" or "your browser languages" boxes
[02:48] <Treenaks> jamesh: no
[02:48] <Treenaks> jamesh: though "Dutch" is listed as both "Dutch" and "Dutch (Netherlands)"
[02:49] <Treenaks> (there's a Dutch (Belgium), which is supposed to be 99% identical, except for some expressions)
[02:50] <jamesh> Treenaks: the default language selection is based on your IP address (using GeoIP data) and browser language preferences
[02:50] <Treenaks> jamesh: they're right, I just don't understand why Dutch is split up like that
[02:51] <Treenaks> jamesh: it isn't in most upstream packages
[02:51] <carlos> Treenaks, because one is related to your country and the other is country 'agnostic'
[02:52] <jamesh> Treenaks: if there are both "Dutch" and "Dutch (Netherlands)" translations for an app, ones from the country specific message catalog get picked in preference to the plain "Dutch" ones
[02:53] <Treenaks> jamesh: ok, it might be good to specify that on the "Select your preferred languages" page, so translators choose the right one
[02:53] <carlos> Treenaks, jamesh, : Usually, if there are translations for both, it's because an UI bug we had in Rosetta. We are going to implemente a way to merge both
[02:53] <Treenaks> ?
[02:54] <carlos> Treenaks, hmm, yeah, a small text explaining that would be a good idea, could you file a bug report about it at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/rosetta/+bugs ?
[02:54] <jamesh> Treenaks: by having both the generic and specifc languages selected, it'll make sure you get offered a PO file whether the app has "Dutch" translations or "Dutch (Netherlands)" too.
[02:54] <daf> you shouldn't be seeing "Dutch (Netherlands)"
[02:54] <carlos> jamesh, but by default it makes no sense to have Dutch (Netherlands)
[02:55] <carlos> jamesh, because translations will not be shared with other countries that also speak Dutch
[02:55] <JanC> "dutch, middle" does make even less sense
[02:55] <jamesh> carlos: so is there no sense in having en_GB? :)
[02:55] <JanC> as nobody speaks it since about 1350 :-P
[02:55] <carlos> jamesh, that's a corner case ;-)
[02:56] <carlos> JanC, well, we have it, if someone wants to translate into it... :-P
[02:56] <carlos> JanC, which country code is it?
[02:56] <carlos> sorry
[02:56] <Treenaks> carlos: nl
[02:56] <carlos> JanC, which language code is it?
[02:56] <jamesh> JanC: It probably has about as many speakers as Klingon
[02:56] <JanC> no idea, Treenaks says he sees it
[02:57] <carlos> :-P
[02:57] <jamesh> "dum"
[02:57] <JanC> in his default preferred languages list
[02:57] <Treenaks> carlos: Dutch is nl_NL and nl_BE, but I've never seen separate translations for those
[02:57] <Treenaks> daf: I see "Dutch (Netherlands)" in the "Select your preferred languages" screen and in the "Languages in netherlands" box
[02:59] <daf> hmm, it's a bug
[02:59] <carlos> Treenaks, both are Dutch
[02:59] <jamesh> Treenaks: some of the languages in the preferred languages list are probably there because of non-translation related locale data is stored for them
[03:00] <carlos> Treenaks, but one is talked in Netherlands and the other in Belgium? (not sure if that's the country name in english)
[03:00] <jamesh> e.g. LC_MONEY, etc
[03:00] <carlos> Treenaks, both are Dutch, right, and thus, you should translate into Dutch
[03:00] <carlos> Treenaks, but there are sometimes, as jamesh says that you need to translate it for an especific country
[03:01] <Treenaks> carlos: nl_BE is spoken in Belgium, and nl_NL is spoken in the Netherlands, but both are Dutch, and I've never seen separate translations
[03:01] <carlos> Treenaks, then just translate into Dutch
[03:01] <carlos> Treenaks, is the same with es_ES, es_MX, es_CL, etc...
[03:01] <carlos> Treenaks, we only use 'es'
[03:01] <Treenaks> carlos: and en_US/en_GB/etc
[03:01] <Treenaks> I guess
[03:02] <carlos> not really
[03:02] <carlos> in that case
[03:02] <carlos> en_GB does some updates
[03:02] <carlos> like change color by colour
[03:02] <carlos> Treenaks, that's what I said about  changes applied only to one country
[03:02] <jamesh> carlos: at least we aren't listing en@quot and en@boldquot ...
[03:02] <carlos> jamesh, not yet :-P
[03:03] <carlos> jamesh, but the variants will appear if they exists
[03:03] <carlos> when we add support to them
[03:03] <jamesh> carlos: those two are useless variants introduced by the gettext maintainer, unless I'm mistaken
[03:03] <carlos> Treenaks, anyway, your point is valid, please file a bug and we will try to clarify it a bit in the language chooser
[03:03] <Treenaks> carlos: ok
[03:04] <carlos> jamesh, those should not be stored into the sources as are autogenerated files
[03:04] <jamesh> carlos: they are handled by a sed script, that converts straight quotes in msgids to UTF-8 curly quotes in the msgstrs
[03:04] <carlos> jamesh, yeah, I know ;-)
[03:08] <jamesh> carlos: the boldquot one seems particularly useless for modern graphical apps -- it makes the quotes bold using terminal escape codes
[03:11] <carlos> jamesh, well, it's the maintainer who decides if those .po files should be generated or not
[03:11] <carlos> for instnace, we are not using them with GNOME