[10:31] <highvoltage> anyone on this channel coming to the edubuntu summit?
[03:54] <mdke> hello everyone
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hi
[03:55] <jsgotangco> we can start in a few minutes
[03:55] <mdke> 5 mins?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:55] <jsgotangco> im still testing out this hula account
[03:56] <mdke> aha
[03:56] <jsgotangco> hno73: hey
[03:56] <hno73> hello all :)
[03:57] <jsgotangco> ok let's just wait the others in a minute or so
[03:58] <mgalvin> hi all
[03:59] <squinn> hi al
[03:59] <squinn> ll
[03:59] <squinn> dah all*
[04:00] <jsgotangco> alright lets start
[04:00] <jsgotangco> ok this is the start of the regular meeting which will happen bi-weekly
[04:00] <jsgotangco> to start of, let's introduce ourselves so we'll know who's here
[04:01] <jsgotangco> -> Jerome Gotangco
[04:01] <froud> Sean Wheller
[04:01] <mdke> <-- matthew east
[04:02] <jsgotangco> great any lurkers? :)
[04:03] <jsgotangco> hmm i guess none, we're well represented anyways
[04:03] <froud> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[04:03] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[04:03] <jsgotangco> that's our agenda for today
[04:03] <jsgotangco> btw, this page will be always upated for the next meetings
[04:04] <jsgotangco> alright we go straight to agenda #1
[04:04] <jsgotangco> StyleGuide
[04:04] <jsgotangco> hmmm jeffsch is still not here although i made sure i set the meeting with him in mind
[04:04] <froud> Jeff is leading that, but is not present
[04:04] <squinn> Okay.
[04:05] <jsgotangco> yeah, but he said this was a good time for him anyway...
[04:05] <mdke> come back to it when he arrives?
[04:05] <jsgotangco> this is pretty much WIP at the moment and it needs love
[04:05] <froud> no move on
[04:05] <jsgotangco> the reason why we had to put this first in agenda is because we'll need consistency in the documents
[04:05] <froud> yes people need to take a look and see if they can contribute to it
[04:06] <froud> I can take the docbook section, pending decisions on this meeting
[04:06] <jsgotangco> jeffsch actually asked me to look into some sections to contribute like writing for an international audience
[04:06] <mdke> there is a lot of good material in the gnome guide for that
[04:06] <mdke> i would suggest copying it
[04:06] <jsgotangco> yes, jeffsch actually suggested it
[04:06] <froud> also look a KDE Guide :-)
[04:06] <jsgotangco> he has a good number of referrences on the doc
[04:07] <mdke> yeah
[04:07] <jsgotangco> but he hopes people who are currently contributing would also consider the contribution to the Style guide because we will all use it
[04:07] <froud> so jsgotangco you will take the international audience aspect
[04:08] <jsgotangco> froud: yup, i'll cover that
[04:08] <froud> I will take the docbook aspect
[04:08] <froud> what else is there
[04:08] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide
[04:09] <judax> greetings, sorry I am late
[04:09] <froud> who are we following for Grammar and Spelling
[04:09] <jsgotangco> i suggest people look into it and see what to contrribute
[04:09] <froud> is it Chicago Manual of Style?
[04:09] <squinn> <- Sean Quinn, oops sorry.
[04:09] <jsgotangco> froud: i believe so, that's what jeffsch preferred if i remember
[04:10] <froud> OK
[04:10] <froud> so then those sections should be easy to complete
[04:10] <jsgotangco> if the Style Guide is released in a few months, we can all adhere to it to our docs for breezy
[04:10] <froud> just reference the CMS
[04:11] <mdke> jsgotangco, +
[04:11] <mdke> everyone should take the time to read it
[04:11] <jsgotangco> completion of the Style Guide is a signicant accomplishment for the project itself
[04:11] <jsgotangco> speaking of jeffsch
[04:11] <jeffsch> howdy
[04:11] <jsgotangco> jeffsch: we were just discussing styleguide
[04:11] <froud> speak of the devil and he will appear
[04:11] <squinn> yeah, welcome jeffsch..nice timing
[04:12] <froud> jsgotangco: you want recap for jeffsch 
[04:12] <jsgotangco> jeffsch: we just started with styleguide and who will tackle on the parts
[04:12] <jsgotangco> i will look into international audience
[04:12] <jsgotangco> froud will tackle docbook stuff
[04:13] <jsgotangco> for grammar stuff, will we be using chicago manual?
[04:13] <squinn> yes, i think so, jsgotangco 
[04:14] <jsgotangco> jeffsch?
[04:14] <jeffsch> do we all have access to chicago?
[04:14] <froud> jeffsch: are you ok with CMS
[04:14] <froud> I do
[04:14] <jsgotangco> im a bit familiar with it
[04:15] <jeffsch> if we don't have access to it, then there's not much point specifying it
[04:15] <froud> http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/
[04:15] <squinn> froud, right.
[04:15] <froud> http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.html
[04:16] <froud> You can register to it and use it as a search
[04:16] <froud> if you dont have a print copy
[04:16] <jeffsch> yes, but that is not the whole manual
[04:16] <jsgotangco> hmmm do we really need everyone to know CMS
[04:16] <froud> jeffsch: no but what is there is good
[04:16] <froud> http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/search.html
[04:17] <froud> jsgotangco: no not realy
[04:17] <froud> its mostly for resolving dispute
[04:17] <squinn> oh, wow, they're about $35 for print
[04:17] <froud> when ppl disagree CMS governs
[04:17] <jsgotangco> ok so we let everyone work first in their own but we'll need a review period on docs for editorial stuff
[04:18] <froud> yep
[04:18] <jsgotangco> ok the question now is who would contribute in that particular section
[04:18] <jsgotangco> (it is pretty crucial btw)
[04:18] <froud> what spelling and grammar?
[04:19] <froud> not me dude I stink in both these departments
[04:19] <jsgotangco> anyone what to take a look at it at least?
[04:19] <squinn> I could contribute a little bit to the StyleGuide.
[04:19] <jsgotangco> if not we'll put it still in the open
[04:19] <froud> jsgotangco: jeffsch is the lingo expert, but he did all the work
[04:19] <squinn> But not in a lead.
[04:20] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: are we talking about who does reviews, or who does styleguide?
[04:20] <jsgotangco> well i can't do that either, english isn't my primary language
[04:20] <jsgotangco> jeffsch: styleguide
[04:20] <froud> jeffsch: grammar and spelling
[04:20] <froud> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide/GrammarPunctuationSpelling
[04:20] <jeffsch> people have signed up for "doc leads" on DocteamProjects....
[04:21] <jeffsch> maybe they can take some responsibility
[04:21] <froud> more, huh :-)
[04:21] <squinn> Right.
[04:21] <jsgotangco> ok i will review the other style guides and see what we can do
[04:22] <jeffsch> one of the hazards of stepping forward, i guess :-)
[04:22] <mgalvin> i speak english as my primary lang, I am sure I can at least help with some of that
[04:22] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: great
[04:22] <squinn> Again, I can contribute with StyleGuide
[04:22] <froud> there you go :-)
[04:22] <mdke> i can help review docs, but probably not work on Styleguide
[04:22] <squinn> but I can't take StyleGuide in a lead position.
[04:22] <squinn> Just as a contributer.
[04:22] <jsgotangco> sure UK english sounds better IMO
[04:22] <mdke> squinn, cotnributor is awesom
[04:22] <mdke> jsgotangco, ++++++
[04:23] <mdke> ;)
[04:23] <jeffsch> ok great! so we have mgalvin, squinn, mdke woo hoo!
[04:23] <froud> jsgotangco: UK en is rotten :-)
[04:23] <jeffsch> did i miss anyone?
[04:23] <mdke> jeffsch, i can't work on the styleguide
[04:23] <mdke> but I will do review of docs based on what the styleguide says
[04:23] <jeffsch> doh! i read too quickly...
[04:23] <froud> cool
[04:23] <squinn> hah i noticed that
[04:23] <jsgotangco> jeffsch: i'll do the i18n
[04:24] <jsgotangco> alright, StyleGuide seems to be back on track...
[04:24] <jsgotangco> anything more on StyleGuide
[04:25] <jsgotangco> ?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> hmm not sure if i am lagged, but we'll move to #2
[04:26] <jsgotangco> "Revisit Doc Planning"
[04:26] <squinn> no lag jsgotangco 
[04:26] <jsgotangco> hmmm who added this
[04:26] <squinn> we're just quiet. 
[04:26] <jeffsch> me
[04:27] <mdke> jeffsch, perhaps you can outline what you mean briefly
[04:27] <jsgotangco> i think jeffsch is suggesting each doc have a spec of sorts
[04:27] <squinn> jeffsch, do you mean that every doc has a plan like the StyleGuide did?
[04:27] <mdke> yeah, the thing for the styleguide looks incredibly professional
[04:27] <jeffsch> we need to know who we are writing for, and the purpose of the doc
[04:27] <mdke> would help newcomers
[04:27] <squinn> mdke, I can agree with you there. Quite well done.
[04:27] <jsgotangco> (its actually a good idea to have a spec of sorts)
[04:27] <squinn> Oh, yeah.
[04:28] <squinn> jeffsch, ++++
[04:28] <froud> jsgotangco: this goes back to https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/content-specification.xml
[04:28] <froud> and https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/information-plan.xml
[04:28] <mdke> do we thing something brief like that of the Styleguide is a good idea? I give my +1
[04:28] <jsgotangco> hmmm i haven't been reading the teamstuff in svn...
[04:28] <jeffsch> froud: yes, the idea has been around for a while, but we have yet to do anything with it
[04:29] <froud> It was an idea way back but got no support
[04:29] <froud> snap
[04:29] <jsgotangco> i'd give my vote on something like this
[04:29] <mdke> i think something brief like has been done on the Styleguide is a good idea, anything more detailed might be more work than we can handle though
[04:29] <jsgotangco> it gives a good idea on what to do for newcomers
[04:30] <froud> I will do it for the Kubuntu docs
[04:30] <jsgotangco> froud: ALL? :)
[04:30] <froud> If I must
[04:30] <mdke> can the persons who are taking charge of each doc take care of it?
[04:30] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of what mdke just suggested
[04:30] <mdke> i think that could be an important part of what that job involves
[04:30] <jsgotangco> and use the style used in the StyleGuide
[04:30] <froud> well I will open a docspec dir in kde
[04:30] <mdke> along with maintaining the status and preview 
[04:30] <froud> and put the files there
[04:31] <froud> then people can take ownership
[04:31] <jsgotangco> ok can we announce this on the list then for the specs for docs
[04:31] <froud> but so far nobody but jjesse and I have reported ownership
[04:31] <froud> for Kubuntu that is
[04:32] <jeffsch> should the doc plan be only in svn? perhaps a wiki page for each doc
[04:32] <mdke> i don't think svn is necessary actually, just wiki page
[04:32] <squinn> jeffsch, + for wiki page for each doc
[04:32] <jsgotangco> wiki too for me
[04:32] <froud> I would like svn and html previews
[04:33] <froud> at least for Kubuntu stuff
[04:33] <jsgotangco> alright
[04:33] <jsgotangco> so wiki it is, but froud will do stuff for Kubuntu
[04:33] <mdke> html preview of what?
[04:34] <mdke> of the document plan?
[04:34] <froud> jsgotangco: all th ekubuntu stuff in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/teamstuff/information-plan.xml links to http://lnix.net/~froud
[04:34] <judax> I have offered ownersip in Kubuntu area
[04:34] <froud> judax great on what?
[04:35] <judax> quickguide and can take more if needed
[04:35] <jsgotangco> ok hold on this is getting too big
[04:35] <jsgotangco> the proposal is do to a simple spec for docs
[04:35] <froud> cool can you update on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
[04:35] <froud> I see troy has some stuff too
[04:36] <froud> jsgotangco: I think let the spec be what people want make it
[04:36] <mdke> i would tend to agree with froud
[04:36] <froud> if its short, so be it
[04:36] <froud> if its long, so be it
[04:36] <squinn> jsgotangco, I like froud's idea, +.
[04:36] <mdke> with the minimum being something similar to the Styleguide plan
[04:36] <froud> +1
[04:37] <jsgotangco> right, so people who are doing docs, please consider making a spec and refer to the plan in StyleGuide
[04:37] <squinn> Okay.
[04:37] <jsgotangco> we cool in that then
[04:37] <mdke> yeah
[04:37] <jeffsch> +1, except change "please consider making" to "please make"
[04:38] <mdke> let's increase our speed otherwise we won't get through the issues
[04:38] <squinn> Yes, please, + mdke 
[04:38] <jsgotangco> ok all people writing docs SHOULD MAKE one :)
[04:38] <froud> ok for kubuntu you will find kde/docspecs
[04:38] <froud> svn commit -m add docspec folder docspecs --non-interactive
[04:38] <judax> +1
[04:38] <jsgotangco> ok any more stuff on this, please send to list
[04:38] <froud> kk
[04:39] <jsgotangco> we'll go to #3 - format to ship
[04:39] <jsgotangco> this is gonna be tough
[04:39] <mdke> i don't think it will be too bad
[04:39] <jsgotangco> has anyone read froud's treatise? :)
[04:39] <judax> aye
[04:39] <squinn> okay, quick off-topic question..let's not make it a discussion..how can i get an html preview from my svn repo on my computer locally [~/ubuntu-doc/foo/bar]  to the web?
[04:40] <squinn> jsgotangco, reading now
[04:40] <froud> jsgotangco: there may be a simple solution
[04:40] <jsgotangco> froud: please elaborate
[04:40] <jsgotangco> (kubuntu is not an issue here btw)
[04:40] <froud> let gnome do yelp xml
[04:41] <froud> and kde we will do html
[04:41] <froud> thatleaves only one problem
[04:41] <jsgotangco> yes?
[04:41] <froud> providing that gnome ppl are prepared to lose publishing features
[04:41] <mdke> why would we do different things for gnome and kde?
[04:41] <froud> then i see no problem
[04:41] <froud> next problem would be the profiles
[04:42] <mdke> hang on
[04:42] <froud> yelp wont like them
[04:42] <jsgotangco> they wont
[04:42] <froud> mdke: status quo
[04:42] <hno73> what do you mean by publishing features?
[04:42] <squinn> hold on
[04:42] <hno73> indexes etc?
[04:42] <froud> yes
 i think
[04:42] <mdke> don't move to profiling yet pls froud, we can deal with it next issue
[04:42] <froud> hno73: yes
[04:42] <squinn> speaking of xref, shaunm over at gnome-doc-utils says next release is around the corner
[04:42] <froud> k
[04:42] <mdke> let's focus
[04:42] <squinn> that will fix endterm
[04:43] <froud> squinn: yes
[04:43] <jsgotangco> ok give me a few minutes brb
[04:43] <froud> ppl I proposed the html route to enable certain features and functions
[04:43] <froud> and b'cause I thought we could take advantage of them
[04:43] <mdke> what are the disadvantages of html?
[04:44] <froud> but if it makes life difficult then let's side step it
[04:44] <mdke> does yelp support it properly?
[04:44] <froud> mdke: ye
[04:44] <mdke> so what are the disadvantages?
[04:44] <froud> mdke: none
[04:44] <mdke> advantages would be that we can publish the same files in ubuntu-doc package AND online
[04:45] <froud> mdke: yes
[04:45] <mdke> does any one see disadvantages?
[04:45] <froud> and custom style as we wish
[04:45] <hno73> How do we link pages together (ie navigation)
[04:45] <squinn> yep, which is kind of nice
[04:45] <hno73> Yelp has some side bar system
[04:45] <squinn> yes
[04:45] <hno73> we need to code that in HTML
[04:46] <squinn> hno73, sidebar seems to be disable for HTML
[04:46] <froud> hno73: you mean the toc
[04:46] <squinn> but i just checked about ubuntu hold on
[04:46] <hno73> not just toc, but generally how the user navigates around the docs
[04:46] <hno73> forward back and sideways
[04:47] <froud> chunked html provides GRUB
[04:47] <froud> next prev, home
[04:47] <hno73> Look at this: http://www.theopencd.org/files/beta/4/en/firefox_desc.html
[04:48] <hno73> Side menu and tabs that we might use
[04:48] <froud> ok
[04:48] <jsgotangco> back
[04:48] <hno73> next prev, home can be added too
[04:49] <froud> chunk output adds it by default
[04:49] <mdke> sounds good
[04:49] <hno73> do you have link to chunk?
[04:49] <froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/kubuntu-install/C/index.html
[04:50] <hno73> ok, thanks
[04:50] <froud> we can decide whether or not to suppress the meta
[04:50] <hno73> right
[04:50] <jsgotangco> will HTML be more acceptable then for GNOME
[04:50] <froud> CSS can do most of the work
[04:51] <squinn> right
[04:51] <squinn> and yeah, userguide comes out in chunk output
[04:51] <froud> in hoary we did ship html versions, they were just not used
[04:51] <squinn> here's my question
[04:51] <squinn> do we still edit in xml?
[04:52] <froud> yes
[04:52] <squinn> and then make qg/ug/html ?
[04:52] <jsgotangco> squinn: of course, its our source
[04:52] <froud> see kde/Makefile
[04:52] <mdke> froud, that html looks great
[04:52] <squinn> ah, that's true, jsgotangco 
[04:52] <froud> with pwd kde do make kall
[04:52] <mdke> needs a bit of ubuntu bling tho
[04:53] <squinn> mdke, a logo here and there
[04:53] <froud> mdke: it uses kde help:/common/kde-default.css with the kio-ioslave
[04:53] <mdke> we can use the ubuntu css
[04:53] <hno73> squinn: a bit more
[04:53] <hno73> mdke: yes
[04:53] <mdke> henrik you can sort that?
[04:53] <froud> mdke: on a kubuntu system it looks like kde docs do
[04:53] <mdke> cool
[04:54] <hno73> mdke: yes, let me look at the chunk build process
[04:54] <jsgotangco> it seems we're sold on HTML>
[04:54] <jeffsch> if we decide on html output for gnome, then how does that change the packaging process?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> good question
[04:54] <mdke> yep
[04:55] <mdke> what problems are we likely to have with -devel?
[04:55] <froud> jeffsch: it does not
[04:55] <hno73> who packages the docs ATM?
[04:55] <mdke> hno73, its kind of improvised
[04:55] <froud> enrico
[04:56] <jsgotangco> (enrico's pretty much active btw, helping out in the sidelines)
[04:56] <froud> yes, bless his cotton socks
[04:56] <hno73> mdke: let's try to catch mdz tomorrow and get clarity on that process
[04:56] <froud> ppl this is a tradeoff decision
[04:56] <squinn> i'll be right back
[04:56] <hno73> including timing
[04:56] <froud> hno73: enrico is whitelisted
[04:57] <squinn> hno73, who's mdz?
[04:57] <froud> he packages and uploads
[04:57] <jsgotangco> squinn: Matt Zimmerman
[04:57] <squinn> thought so
[04:57] <squinn> just wasn't sure
[04:57] <hno73> squinn: Ubuntu lead developer
[04:57] <mdke> hno73, is he in london?
[04:58] <hno73> I still want to ask him about the timeframe
[04:58] <hno73> mdke: yes for a few days
[04:58] <froud> hno73: for Kubuntu, uniq is building debian/
[04:58] <jsgotangco> ok 
[04:58] <froud> we should have regular deb builds for kubuntu in a few days
[04:58] <jsgotangco> we're taking a chunk here
[04:59] <jsgotangco> ok so what's the consensus on this issue
[04:59] <mdke> i am attracted to the html idea
[04:59] <judax> +1 html
[04:59] <mgalvin> +1 html
[04:59] <hno73> I'd like to see HTML for both GNOME and KDE
[04:59] <hno73> simpler that way
[04:59] <jsgotangco> mdke: take advantage on the edubuntu summit and catch some people to discuss the issue
[05:00] <froud> please note that this applies only to ununtu-docs not any gnome doc that happens to get developed in our svn
[05:00] <jsgotangco> right
[05:00] <jsgotangco> good point
[05:00] <froud> those docs must conform to gnome
[05:00] <mdke> jsgotangco, ok i'll try
[05:00] <froud> because the move upstream
[05:00] <mdke> what gnome docs are worked on in our svn?
[05:00] <jsgotangco> is a long road ahead? *grin*
[05:01] <froud> for example in hoary I did ubuntu-update manager and ubuntu-device database
[05:01] <jsgotangco> OK so what's the consensus....
[05:01] <froud> there may be gnome apps developed at ubuntu but not upstream yet, we can do those docs in svn
[05:01] <squinn> +1 html
[05:02] <hno73> HTML with some added bling
[05:02] <mdke> cool
[05:02] <jeffsch> +1 html, plus look at getting a sidebar
[05:02] <mdke> told you it would be easy
[05:02] <jsgotangco> great...
[05:02] <mdke> we can put the decision to the TB soon
[05:02] <jsgotangco> right so we're solid on HTML
[05:02] <mdke> its cool to keep them in touch with what we're doing
[05:03] <hno73> mdke: +1
[05:03] <jsgotangco> right that's why we're going to have regular meetings from now on
[05:03] <jsgotangco> alright where are we
[05:03] <jsgotangco> #4 Document Profiling
[05:03] <froud> shall I
[05:03] <jsgotangco> surre
[05:04] <froud> the idea is just a time saver for us
[05:04] <froud> if we use html we will not have a problem
[05:04] <froud> it basically means that we can develop two or more books in one XML-instance
[05:04] <squinn> yep, +1 froud 
[05:04] <froud> example Installation Guide
[05:05] <froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/kubuntu-install/C/index.html
[05:05] <froud> There is an Ubuntu version in the same file
[05:05] <froud> but you only see here the Kubuntu version
[05:05] <squinn> What do you mean by profiling?
[05:05] <froud> at present I have used the os attribute
[05:06] <squinn> Basically copy/paste, but change ubuntu to kubuntu or edubuntu?
[05:06] <mdke> squinn, you voted first and then asked what it is?
[05:06] <jsgotangco> so when you make the html output you specified kde/gnome, etc?
[05:06] <froud> hold let me get an src example
[05:06] <mdke> the concern I have with profiling is that it may increase the entry level for new users, who will have to learn how to do it
[05:06] <mdke> (as I said on the mailing list)
[05:06] <mdke> i see that it will save time but it will result in complex docs
[05:07] <jeffsch> and also, how to decide what gets profiled. what are the criteria?
[05:07] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:07] <jeffsch> is it only os the gets profiled?
[05:07] <froud> ok here is an example

[05:07] <froud> 			<para>This provides instruction for the installation of <phrase os="gnome">Ubuntu</phrase>
[05:07] <froud> 				<phrase os="kde">Kubuntu</phrase> from installation CD-ROM media for the
[05:07] <froud> 				&distro-version; release.</para>
[05:07] <froud> 		</abstract>
[05:07] <froud> notice the <phrase os="kde">
[05:07] <squinn> mdke, no, i was agreeing with the html > xml profiling
[05:07] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:07] <squinn> mdke, i have a basic idea
[05:07] <froud> and the <phrase os="gnome">
[05:08] <froud> at time of converting to HTML
[05:08] <jsgotangco> it seems profiling can only happen in specific docs like an install guide
[05:08] <froud> we pass the profile.os param to the stylesheets
[05:08] <jsgotangco> but not on a useguide or a quickguide
[05:08] <froud> if it = gnome we get a gnome version
[05:08] <mdke> i would be pretty reluctant to profile on OS on the userguide
[05:09] <froud> jsgotangco: it is a selective application
[05:09] <squinn> I'll be right back.
[05:09] <froud> not recomended for all books
[05:09] <jeffsch> how much trouble is it to stop profiling once it has started? 
[05:09] <froud> jeffsch: transform the profile to xml
[05:09] <hno73> It might also make us tempted to write things in too general a form when there really are differences
[05:09] <froud> and commit that instance
[05:09] <mdke> hno73, *nods*
[05:09] <hno73> to make it fit both 
[05:10] <froud> hno73: agreed it does change writing style
[05:10] <mdke> but the main problem i have is that it means that new users, who already find it difficult to get to grips with xml, have another problem
[05:10] <jsgotangco> froud: would it be possible to elaborate on the list on the profiling and what docs are good candidates are?
[05:10] <hno73> and bring it up again at the next meeting
[05:11] <froud> all docs that are candidates are already profiles
[05:11] <jsgotangco> right
[05:11] <mdke> we should get it decided ASAP tho
[05:11] <mdke> the issue has been out there for a while
[05:12] <mdke> i think the pros and cons are quite simple
[05:12] <froud> mdke: if its gonna be a long one, then I will just export the profiles out, essentially splitting them
[05:12] <jeffsch> how about we just go with "what's done is done" - the currently profiled docs are profiled, others won't be
[05:12] <jeffsch> and see how it goes
[05:12] <froud> It only really impacts install and faq
[05:13] <mdke> i'm still -1 right now
[05:13] <jsgotangco> hmmm so its not too big then at the moment, but it will come out soon for sure
[05:13] <froud> the advantage is that when we for example develop the install guide for the graphical installer we are actually doing two books in one shot
[05:14] <jsgotangco> ok so it seems only 2 books for now are affected by profiling
[05:14] <froud> 90% of the install guide is comon to kde and gnome
[05:14] <mdke> yeah the advantages are obvious
[05:14] <froud> no need to duplicate it
[05:14] <mgalvin> i have started working on the faq and find that learning and using profiles has not been painful, yet ;)
[05:15] <mdke> but I'm still -1 :p
[05:15] <jsgotangco> froud: it's a good idea to bring this up again on the list and we be specific on the books affected
[05:15] <mdke> mgalvin, ah that is good to know!
[05:15] <froud> profiling is easy
[05:15] <jsgotangco> OK so profiling is not so bad as it seems
[05:15] <froud> really
[05:15] <jsgotangco> thats good to hea
[05:15] <jsgotangco> ok so whats the action plan on this issue
[05:16] <froud> we have three of four ppl who are already using them
[05:16] <mdke> if we document it well on the wiki pages, that would help lessen the pain for me ;)
[05:16] <froud> it is documented
[05:16] <jsgotangco> any AR on Profiling...
[05:16] <froud> ppl must please read http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html
[05:17] <froud> please, please, pretty please :-)
[05:17] <jsgotangco> ok shall we move on..profiling seems pretty covered now
[05:17] <mdke> froud, its totally out of order to ask new contributors to read that document
[05:17] <hno73> It's just 29 chapters
[05:17] <jsgotangco> gyahaha
[05:17] <hno73> oh, and 2 apendecies
[05:17] <hno73> :)
[05:17] <mdke> its like closing off the team totally to new persons
[05:17] <froud> Ok I will make it easier for you http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
[05:18] <hno73> Maybe next week
[05:18] <mdke> like, "you can only be in this team if you are a docbook expert"
[05:18] <mdke> that is not what we want IMO
[05:18] <mdke> because then we'll end up with just froud ;)
[05:18] <froud> mdke: if people what to understand th epossabilities all I am saying is it is documented
[05:18] <froud> no need to ducment it again
[05:18] <jsgotangco> OK so there is still a question on profiling and it needs more explanation....
[05:18] <mdke> froud, if we implement profiling, it must be documented for new users on the wiki IMHO
[05:18] <mdke> in a simple and accessible way
[05:19] <jsgotangco> OK
[05:19] <jsgotangco> hold it
[05:19] <jsgotangco> there is no concrete team decision on profiling then
[05:19] <jeffsch> i like my idea plus mdke's idea
[05:20] <jsgotangco> so we'll put it up again on the next meeting is that good?
[05:20] <jsgotangco> right
[05:20] <jsgotangco> so that's it for profiling then...
[05:20] <mdke> jeffsch, i'm still -1 on profiling ;)
[05:20] <hno73> docteam.u.c
[05:21] <jsgotangco> #5 docteam.ubuntu.com
[05:21] <jsgotangco> ok this is pretty basic for now
[05:21] <jeffsch> mdke: bad wolf :)
[05:21] <jsgotangco> we just need to upload stuff
[05:21] <mdke> heh
[05:21] <jsgotangco> we tried to do this before in the svn but it seems to strip the mime types
[05:21] <hno73> I spoke with elmo today and we are moving forward on this
[05:21] <mdke> oh good
[05:22] <jsgotangco> that's great
[05:22] <hno73> We'll likely get our own space here: http://www.linode.com/
[05:22] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[05:22] <jsgotangco> the loco teams are moving to vps in linode as well
[05:22] <hno73> We can have static pages, upload areas, wikis, whatever
[05:22] <mdke> wwill it be easy to script uploads of the html preview and status pages of our documents to that server?
[05:22] <hno73> yeah and MOTUs
[05:23] <jsgotangco> mdke: we can actually move our svn on linode
[05:23] <hno73> they're trying to make it one large bulk deal
[05:23] <mdke> right
[05:23] <hno73> to get a better price
[05:23] <mdke> what is the timeframe on that?
[05:23] <hno73> a weekish?
[05:23] <jsgotangco> hopefully in july
[05:23] <jsgotangco> i've talked to smurfix about it
[05:23] <squinn> good to hear
[05:23] <mdke> yes good news
[05:23] <hno73> early in July, I'm sure
[05:24] <squinn> will this take our previews off of mako's space then?
[05:24] <squinn> and move them onto our own subdomain?
[05:24] <jsgotangco> the loco teams have requested their linode requirements
[05:24] <mdke> does the same apply for help.ubuntu.com? for published docs on release?
[05:24] <jsgotangco> mdke: its possible
[05:24] <hno73> So, who has any box admin experience? :)
[05:24] <mdke> jsgotangco, i don't think we needs to worry abnout locoteams here
[05:24] <jsgotangco> mdke: we'll have root access on it
[05:24] <squinn> hno73, not I
[05:24] <mdke> hno73, you?
[05:25] <hno73> mdke: I've done it, but I'm still a cluts at it
[05:25] <jsgotangco> same herre
[05:25] <jsgotangco> i've deployed ubuntu servers, but cannot say i am an expert
[05:25] <mdke> me neither
[05:25] <hno73> I can do it it if I have a good sidekick or two :)
[05:25] <mdke> i like henrik for the job :D
[05:25] <jsgotangco> i can help henrik
[05:26] <mdke> ok i can try and help
[05:26] <hno73> jsgotangco: thanks
[05:26] <mdke> what is needed?
[05:26] <jeffsch> i can help too, but am far from expert
[05:26] <jsgotangco> ok let's pig out on PHP and JAVA on that server :D
[05:26] <judax> haha
[05:26] <mdke> ?
[05:26] <jsgotangco> kidding
[05:26] <mdke> we just need some basic stuff for those projects, then if you want to develop other projects, that's cool too
[05:27] <jsgotangco> ok so docteam.u.c is on track
[05:27] <hno73> I know nothing about Java, PHP is ok
[05:27] <jsgotangco> mdke: yeah, that makes the linode stuff so flexible for us
[05:27] <mdke> can't help.ubuntu.com be on the ubuntu webserver?
[05:27] <mdke> (support tab on the website)
[05:27] <hno73> mdke: I think it should be, yes
[05:27] <mdke> yay
[05:28] <mdke> this is the best meeting ever
[05:28] <jsgotangco> yeah its frozen doc anyways
[05:28] <mdke> yep
[05:28] <hno73> we can put stuff in a staging area on docteam.u.c and then pull it into help.u.c
[05:28] <jsgotangco> alright, so we're sold on #5 then.
[05:28] <hno73> yepp
[05:28] <mdke> :)
[05:28] <froud> jsgotangco: you really want to move svn :-0
[05:29] <froud> jsgotangco: I suggest against it
[05:29] <squinn> so lemme get this straight
[05:29] <hno73> froud: let's move to baz
[05:29] <jsgotangco> baz
[05:29] <hno73> duks even
[05:29] <froud> yes lets
[05:29] <squinn> docteam.u.c is kind of our "testing" area
[05:29] <squinn> and help.u.c is our 'finished' area
[05:29] <hno73> squinn: right
[05:29] <jsgotangco> squinn: right
[05:30] <froud> jsgotangco: dontmove svn
[05:30] <squinn> okay great
[05:30] <froud> jsgotangco: it means everyone must redo kets etc
[05:30] <froud> s/kets/keys
[05:30] <jsgotangco> froud: right, it was just mentioned
[05:30] <hno73> do we even need keybased auth on the linode system?
[05:31] <froud> no
[05:31] <froud> we dont
[05:31] <mdke> it would help to move svn too
[05:31] <hno73> but if we break it we get to keep both parts
[05:31] <froud> why
[05:31] <mdke> froud, because the website we've talked about will be there
[05:31] <hno73> so we can admin our own commit rights
[05:32] <mdke> that too
[05:32] <froud> hno73: all we need for starters is an svn checkout and build on the linode
[05:32] <jsgotangco> i'm not in favor of moving svn right now, this needs planning
[05:32] <mdke> obviously planning is needed
[05:32] <hno73> jsgotangco: agree
[05:32] <squinn> i'm confused..
[05:32] <froud> dudes all we need for now is like what I have on lnix.net/~froud
[05:32] <jsgotangco> actually, we shouldn't even plan on moving our svn, but instead migrate our svn to baz
[05:32] <jeffsch> maybe use baz on the linode machine, and gradually move docs over
[05:32] <mdke> ok we're done on this issue
[05:33] <squinn> baz = bazaar?
[05:33] <hno73> jsgotangco: I agree, seriously
[05:33] <froud> I think we tend to bring in wiki and all that stuff an djust complicate what is really a simple matter
[05:33] <mdke> let's move on or jsgotangco 's wife will kill him
[05:33] <squinn> seconded
[05:33] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:33] <jsgotangco> ok no svn movements
[05:33] <hno73> point #6
[05:33] <squinn> so keep svn as-is?
[05:33] <hno73> jsgotangco: not yet anyway
[05:33] <jsgotangco> squinn: yep...as is
[05:34] <hno73> let's review it in 4 weeks
[05:34] <mdke> next issue
[05:34] <squinn> UDP Wiki Team.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> squinn: but the road to baz is in the hoizon
[05:34] <squinn> and again, baz is bazaar, right?
[05:34] <jsgotangco> Wiki team
[05:34] <jsgotangco> squinn: yep
[05:34] <froud> I say no baz go to baz-ng
[05:34] <squinn> ah, cool, alright.
[05:34] <mdke> pls
[05:34] <mdke> on topic!
[05:34] <hno73> froud: 4 weeks :)
[05:34] <jsgotangco> ok the baz thing is a separate meeting
[05:34] <squinn> right.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> #6 wiki team
[05:34] <squinn> let's get to Wiki Team
[05:34] <hno73> wiki team
[05:34] <jsgotangco> this ws proposed way long beforre
[05:35] <jsgotangco> but the team back then was so small
[05:35] <mdke> ok we have some volunteers for this now
[05:35] <jsgotangco> but since we're growing, people have been talking about it again
[05:35] <jeffsch> i'm all for wiki team, but let's get our own wiki pages in order first
[05:35] <mdke> jeffsch, that could be a good job for the team
[05:35] <jsgotangco> good idea, clean up our own home first
[05:35] <squinn> +1 with that idea, jeffsch 
[05:36] <jeffsch> i went ahead and rewrote DocumentationTeam
[05:36] <mdke> ok hno73, views?
[05:37] <squinn> I'd also help work with the WikiTeam after we cleanup.
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i can't speak much on the wiki team since i'm not that much of a wiki person btw
[05:37] <jsgotangco> (im a mediawiki fan btw)
[05:37] <hno73> Cleaning the wiki is good, but we should watch other people's toes
[05:37] <hno73> docteam != wiki
[05:38] <hno73> But we can go out in front with examples of good practice
[05:38] <jsgotangco> who has sysop priv on the moin wiki atm?
[05:38] <jsgotangco> hmm does moin have sysop btw
[05:38] <jeffsch> hno73: yes
[05:38] <hno73> jsgotangco: in what sense?
[05:39] <jsgotangco> hno73: like in mediawiki sysop account
[05:39] <hno73> elmo admins the server and I look after themes and such
[05:39] <hno73> jsgotangco: hm, yeah I need to set one up 
[05:39] <jsgotangco> (not really that familiar with moin except i like its table syntax)
[05:39] <hno73> so that will be me then
[05:39] <mdke> what I had in mind was a group of people to do specific jobs (like fix the icons) and generally edit the wiki to keep it tidy
[05:39] <squinn> jsgotangco, i'm a mediawiki fan too
[05:39] <jdub> jsgotangco: only if you set up and use ACLs and so on
[05:40] <mdke> grrr
[05:40] <mdke> on topic! squinn, jsgotangco, no need to talk about mediawiki
[05:40] <jsgotangco> jdub: hey, welcome
[05:40] <hno73> jdub: exxactly
[05:40] <squinn> ahh, sorry.
[05:40] <hno73> we need to set up some people with ACL admin right
[05:40] <mdke> how come?
[05:40] <hno73> there are none ATM, AFAIK
[05:41] <jsgotangco> i'd happily vote mdke for that
[05:41] <mdke> is there a need for them?
[05:41] <squinn> acl = Access control list?
[05:41] <hno73> mdke: I think it might be good to restrict deleting and reverting, at least on some pages
[05:41] <jsgotangco> mdke: you can lock pages for one
[05:41] <hno73> squinn: yes
[05:41] <squinn> ok
[05:42] <mdke> hno73, i agree that deleting could be locked down yeah
[05:42] <hno73> jsgotangco: which is a bit drastic
[05:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: how big do you think a wiki team should be?
[05:42] <squinn> but protecting pages by keeping them as is may be necessary
[05:42] <hno73> and once you enable admin, then that has to be locked down
[05:42] <mdke> jsgotangco, if we're just talking about editing and cleaning, i think it can be as big as possible
[05:42] <jsgotangco> to be honest, i can't connect docteam work right now with wiki work
[05:43] <hno73> squinn: what do you mean?
[05:43] <mdke> jsgotangco, if we're talking about access levels, I have no idea
[05:43] <mdke> squinn, its a wiki dude
[05:43] <mdke> ok bye froud, thanks
[05:43] <squinn> sorry, i'm just trying to relate from what i know from wikipedia to ubuntu's wiki
[05:44] <jsgotangco> i think a good start for the wiki team is to have a best practices page for one
[05:44] <squinn> i know there's significant differences, but i'm trying to see similarities
[05:44] <mdke> squinn, no need to close pages, otherwise it wouldn't be a wiki
[05:44] <hno73> we have less flamers and sockpuppets here :)
[05:44] <hno73> so far :)
[05:44] <squinn> oh so true, hno73 
[05:44] <squinn> i know.
[05:44] <hno73> OK, but back to the gardening aspect
[05:44] <mdke> ok lets get back to the idea of a team
[05:44] <jsgotangco> ok
[05:44] <jsgotangco> go on
[05:45] <mdke> hno73, shoot
[05:45] <hno73> should they have some goals, or style guide?
[05:46] <mdke> i don't know, the reason I thought of them was just for specific jobs, like tidy up categories and fix icons
[05:46] <jsgotangco> how about making wiki template>
[05:46] <jsgotangco> moin is incredibly good on templates
[05:46] <hno73> 1. removing extra headings 2. fixing broken icons 3. moving chatter to /talk pages
[05:46] <mdke> yes
[05:46] <mdke> and the pages need more linking
[05:47] <hno73> ok
[05:47] <hno73> TOC pages
[05:47] <mdke> yep
[05:47] <jsgotangco> ok i think this can be elaborated on the list
[05:47] <hno73> or TOCs in long pages even
[05:47] <mdke> hno73, would you be prepared to head up the team?
[05:47] <jsgotangco> but so far, a wiki team has been favored
[05:47] <mdke> if a head is needed
[05:48] <mdke> volunteers so far are myself, phillip cain and robitaille
[05:48] <hno73> mdke: I'm reluctant to dive too much into the content as such
[05:48] <mdke> content?
[05:48] <hno73> yeah, you guys are much better at this stuff
[05:48] <jsgotangco> mdke: i suggest you start up the team with no leader atm but with a goal that the members adopt
[05:48] <mdke> content of what?
[05:49] <hno73> mdke: as in the stuff stored in the wiki (content in the data sense)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> that way, this subproject can move
[05:49] <hno73> as opposed to the wiki code
[05:49] <mdke> hno73, oh i don't think that editing the content of docs would be up to this team
[05:49] <mdke> that is for everyone :D
[05:49] <jsgotangco> wiki janitors?
[05:49] <hno73> I'm happy to take feature requests for structural wiki improvements though
[05:50] <hno73> here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wiki/FeatureRequests
[05:50] <jsgotangco> alright
[05:50] <mdke> okies
[05:50] <jsgotangco> im about to crash can we move this on the list
[05:50] <mdke> hno73, you have to explain to me sometime what you have in mind for subpages
[05:50] <mdke> jsgotangco, o
[05:50] <mdke> k
[05:50] <hno73> ok, ask me tomorrow :)
[05:51] <jsgotangco> the wiki team is a great idea btw,
[05:51] <mdke> hno73, what time are you around?
[05:51] <jsgotangco> i would suggest to move with it even if therre is no clear goal/vision for this team
[05:51] <jsgotangco> yet
[05:51] <hno73> mdke: from 9 (depending on traffic) til 5-6
[05:51] <hno73> so, all day
[05:52] <mdke> jsgotangco, cool, thanks
[05:52] <jsgotangco> ok....
[05:52] <hno73> jsgotangco: agree
[05:52] <jsgotangco> hmmm yeah, the other stuff to follow up
[05:52] <jsgotangco> jdub is here maybe we can bug him
[05:52] <squinn> yeah, again, i'd help you guys out on a clean-up status
[05:52] <squinn> as a member of the team or not
[05:52] <jsgotangco> upstream docs....
[05:53] <mdke> cool thanks squinn 
[05:53] <jsgotangco> jdub: around?
[05:53] <jdub> yeah
[05:54] <jsgotangco> jdub: right, on the upstream docs thing...you said a while back you were going to send an email on the list...
[05:54] <jsgotangco> Jeff (jdub) proposed that more can be done to harness the documentation coming from upstream in the source packages. He said the level of technical expertise necessary to do this would not be too high. Mark agreed, stating that it was important to exploit the low hanging fruit ;) Jeff agreed to follow this up on the mailing list to set out his proposals. Although he will not be able to head up the project due to time constraint
[05:54] <jdub> mmm, not exclusively about that though; i just haven't had time to finish and send it
[05:55] <mdke> the elusive email!
[05:55] <jdub> well, there's two sides to it
[05:55] <mdke> its attaining mythical status now
[05:55] <mdke> :)
[05:55] <jdub> there's documentation already in the distro
[05:55] <jdub> and working with upstream documentation (modifications)
[05:56] <jsgotangco> documentation in distro meaning ubuntu-specific docs
[05:56] <jdub> no, quite the opposite
[05:56] <mdke> packaged docs from upstream
[05:56] <jdub> the documentation that comes in all the packages in the distro
[05:56] <jsgotangco> oh ok
[05:57] <jsgotangco> what can be our first steps into these territories?
[05:57] <jdub> so, what can i help with here?
[05:57] <jdub> ah
[05:58] <mdke> we have absolutely no idea how to use these docs
[05:58] <jdub> ok, so i think the second point - modifying upstream docs - is a medium term goal we can address fuerhter down the track when we have elite soyuz/baz love
[05:58] <jdub> but it's the first that's really interesting right now
[05:59] <jdub> there is an *enormous* amount of documentation already in ubuntu
[05:59] <jdub> it's just hidden away
[05:59] <jsgotangco> hmmm this would probably need some skills
[05:59] <mdke> jdub, that is what you said before, and its obviously true, but we are waiting to find out what we can do with it
[05:59] <jdub> we made a very cheap improvement early on, but registering debian docs with scrollkeeper
[06:00] <jdub> but that was a no-analysis easy fix :)
[06:00] <jsgotangco> ok what can we do in this area then
[06:00] <jsgotangco> this would obviously need some packaging skills
[06:00] <jdub> not really
[06:00] <jdub> the first step is looking for what we have already
[06:01] <jdub> and that's easy - poking around in packages to see what's there, and noting it down somehow
[06:01] <jdub> to a certain extent, we can automate this
[06:01] <jdub> most docs will turn up in /usr/share/doc
[06:01] <jsgotangco> yeah i've dug it some time ago
[06:01] <jsgotangco> when i was investigating the scrollkeeper actions
[06:02] <jdub> so we could check the contents of every package for files under /usr/share/doc - that's pretty cheap
[06:02] <jdub> concentrate on main for the time being, so we can have solid impact and a small set to learn from
[06:02] <jsgotangco> jdub, how about the outdated gnome docs
[06:03] <jdub> in what regard?
[06:04] <jsgotangco> well from what i understand on the first issue, is that its all about putting those docs altogether and making a sense of it on the viewer
[06:04] <jdub> 1. finding existing documentation
[06:04] <jdub> 2. documenting what we find
[06:04] <jdub> 3. ensure it's registered with existing systems
[06:05] <jdub> 4. start looking upstream to see if we can integrate better (by shipping docbook, translating source documentation formats, etc)
[06:05] <jdub> (4) is going to get interesting; we could make a big impact on upstream doing that :)
[06:06] <jsgotangco> hmm this is something i wanted to do before
[06:06] <jsgotangco> ok at least we now know what needs to be done
[06:07] <mdke> i don't
[06:07] <jdub> so what was the q about gnome docs?
[06:07] <mdke> 3. is the one we don't know how to do
[06:07] <jsgotangco> oh, 3. is pretty easy to figure out
[06:07] <mdke> ok
[06:08] <jdub> mdke: well, it's pretty simple with scrollkeeper, if we do it that way; but the bulk of the work is going to be finding and documenting where the docs are
[06:08] <mdke> ok
[06:08] <jdub> and what we can do with them
[06:08] <jsgotangco> 2. is the bulk of work actually
[06:08] <jdub> like, we'll deal with developer docs differently
[06:08] <jdub> (for instance, our changes to python packages to include devhelp files)
[06:09] <jdub> looking at the package list for -doc packages is a cheap'n'easy start ;)
[06:09] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:09] <jsgotangco> well on my part, at least i know the priorities (of sort)
[06:09] <jdub> starting with main only will avoid being overwhelmed
[06:09] <jsgotangco> jdub: we'll just expect your email when you finish it :)
[06:10] <jsgotangco> but the 4 points is a good start (on main)
[06:10] <jdub> yeah... :|
[06:10] <jsgotangco> jdub: thanks, anything more to add, i appreciate you being here despite your time
[06:10] <jdub> jsgotangco: maybe start with a few example packages to get a workflow going
[06:10] <jsgotangco> are you in sydney anways
[06:10] <jdub> yeah, it's 2am
[06:10] <jsgotangco> yeah i appreaciate it
[06:11] <jsgotangco> OK, we've pretty much covered everything in the Agenda
[06:11] <jsgotangco> Not bad for a 1st regular meeting i'd say
[06:11] <jsgotangco> we've covered a lot
[06:11] <jsgotangco> hmmm who's still in here anyway
[06:11] <judax> :)
[06:11] <mdke> still around
[06:12] <jsgotangco> Anything else to discuss?
[06:12] <mdke> thanks for staying around jdub
[06:12] <jsgotangco> ok one morre thing
[06:12] <jsgotangco> we'll do this meeting bi-weekly
[06:12] <jsgotangco> so next meeting in 2 weeks!
[06:12] <mdke> cough
[06:12] <mdke> biweekly no
[06:12] <jsgotangco> why?
[06:12] <mdke> doesn't that mean twice a week?
[06:13] <jsgotangco> NO
[06:13] <mdke> my bad ;)
[06:13] <jsgotangco> it means every two weeks
[06:13] <mdke> ok cool
[06:13] <judax> biweekly sounds good
[06:13] <mdke> this was a great meeting
[06:13] <jsgotangco> ok how about the time
[06:13] <jsgotangco> i like 14UTC and 22UTC
[06:14] <jdub> *cough* the time sucks! *cough* ;-)   [ignore me] 
[06:14] <jsgotangco> we'll rotate in them
[06:14] <mdke> i'm easy
[06:14] <hno73> I prefer 14 UTC, but 22 UTC can work
[06:14] <judax> both of those are good for me
[06:14] <jsgotangco> great
[06:15] <jsgotangco> alright, anything more
[06:15] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda will be our agenda page from now on
[06:15] <jsgotangco> Next meeting in 2 weeks, 22UTC
[06:16] <judax> take care all
[06:16] <jsgotangco> Meeting minutes will be sent to the list in a few hours after i wake up
[06:16] <mdke> awesome meeting guys
[06:16] <jsgotangco> great
[06:16] <mdke> rockin
[06:16] <jeffsch> excellent
[06:16] <jsgotangco> ok im gonna crash
[06:16] <jeffsch> cya
[06:17] <jsgotangco> ok bye
[06:17] <hno73> bye