[01:15] <Kamion>   mcmurdo.buildd: forward host lookup failed: Unknown host
[01:15] <lamont> Kamion: sounds about right
[01:16] <Kamion> is that not a machine that does d-i builds any more?
[01:16] <lamont> d-i is vernadsky.buildd
[01:16] <Kamion> what's the current set?
[01:16] <Kamion> oh
[01:16] <Kamion> I have mcmurdo hooker ross yellow
[01:16] <lamont> vernadsky, ross, yellow, hooker
[01:17] <lamont> mcmurdo was a .5TB box, which them launchpad? folks stole from us
[01:17] <lamont> dude.  we got a dell.
[01:19] <lamont> where is pitti so I can hit him???? huh???
[01:20] <wasabi_> I need some packages moved to universe. ;)
[01:32] <mae> um, memory management is done by parents with gtk right?
[01:32] <mae> for widgets?
[01:54] <lamont> libgnomecanvas2-dev_2.11.1-0buntu1_i386.deb
[01:54] <lamont> what's the 'buntu' suffix, I wonder?
[02:06] <wasabi> 0buntu
[02:08] <tseng> infinity: did you get my mail?
[02:55] <wasabi> post update interaction!!!
[03:00] <lamont> Kamion: you around?
[03:01] <lamont> hrm.. .actually, it's not too hard to check that myself..
[03:03] <lamont> hrm.. actually... anyone with a jackass login around?
[03:03] <lamont> GAH
[03:04] <tseng> nice vlc is horribly uninstallable
[04:28] <waterseven> Hi there... is anyone here that does translations? need some help finding a template.
[04:52] <infinity> tseng : The mail about whacky mono segfaults?
[04:53] <infinity> tseng : I looked at it briefly a few days ago, then got swamped.
[05:28] <alvaro> hi
[05:29] <alvaro> somebody know the reason why can't use directy the nvidia drivers from the nvidia page?
[05:31] <whiprush> nvidia drivers are included in ubuntu. (this question is best for #ubuntu instead of here)
[05:31] <alvaro> but if I compile the kernel... how install this modules?
[05:32] <alvaro> I install the nvidia drivers from the www.nvidia.com and now can't go back to my old configuration
[05:34] <jdub> alvaro: why did you need to recompile your kernel?
[05:34] <jdub> you can probably try to build linux-restricted-modules against your kernel
[05:35] <alvaro> because I can't active the dma in my dvd
[05:35] <whiprush> if you did rebuild your kernel make sure /usr/src/linux points to the right source, the nvidia drivers should just find it.
[05:35] <jdub> alvaro: you can do that without rebuilding your kernel, just use hdparm
[05:36] <alvaro> when I use hdparm say: invalid instruction
[05:36] <whiprush> Mr. Dub: I hear toronto is a possible location for the next conference?
[05:36] <jdub> whiprush: hrm, not hugely likely; south america more so
[05:37] <whiprush> k
[05:37] <whiprush> still cheaper than europe for me
[05:37] <jdub> yeah :)
[05:37] <whiprush> alvaro: I usually enable dma on a drive in /etc/hdparm.conf (iirc)
[05:37] <whiprush> lemme bust out my laptop and check.
[05:38] <alvaro> I tried but not work
[05:39] <whiprush> and you're sure the drive supports dma? (I assume so since it's a dvd drive)
[05:39] <whiprush> jdub: dude, networkmagic on a laptop is a wonderful thing, I've been suspending and having it Just Work all day long.
[05:40] <whiprush> different aps and locations too.
[05:40] <whiprush> I'm going to buy thom a big batch of $LOCAL_BEER at the next conference.
[05:40] <alvaro> this my problem when y try to activate: HDIO_GETGEO failed: Invalid argument
[05:41] <alvaro> its a dvd drive, y sure because the driver work with dma in other pc
[05:41] <whiprush> you sure the syntax is right?
[05:41] <alvaro> yes
[05:42] <alvaro> , /dev/hda because I have a sata hd
[05:42] <whiprush> ok, I'd do two things, a) submit your hardware config via hwdb-client, and then file a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com on it.
[05:43] <whiprush> make sure you put as much detail in the comments in hwdb-client, when it submits it'll get looked at eventually.
[05:44] <alvaro> I think that the chipset is the reason
[05:44] <ajmitch> jdub: when is it likely to be?
[05:44] <alvaro> I try to install the ndorce chipset module...
[05:44] <whiprush> well, when you submit it'll send along the hardware config, the important thing is that you submit it so a developer can get to it.
[05:45] <alvaro> ok, I do it
[05:46] <alvaro> but now I can't run X... how can I reconfigure to my old configuration?
[05:46] <jdub> ajmitch: october, november
[05:47] <ajmitch> jdub: great, I'll start saving then :)
[05:47] <alvaro> I try to reinstall the nvidia dirvers how in unoficial guide, but I can't run X
[05:48] <whiprush> alvaro: most of the people in here are busy fixing up the next release, it's best if you ask in #ubuntu.
[05:48] <alvaro> thanks whiprush
[05:49] <whiprush> no problem, good luck!
[06:37] <fabbione> morning
[06:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: xcursor is still FTBFS
[06:40] <fabbione> even with xorg -33
[06:50] <Lathiat> uh all X upgrade
[06:55] <lamont> fabbione: xcursor is missing a build-dep in ubuntu1 - did a new upload happen there yet?
[06:56] <fabbione> nope
[07:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: no, I haven't uploaded the new version
[08:07] <Burgundavia> just saw what google is funding
[08:07] <Burgundavia> very nice stuff
[08:20] <whiprush> jdub: hey planet.u.c doesn't highlight links at all
[08:20] <whiprush> like, I had to hover my mouse over you thurott entry to find the link
[08:21] <jdub> only on some links, too
[08:21] <whiprush> yeah, odd
[08:21] <jdub> i hate wrangling with the plone css
[08:22] <jdub> i'm probably going to rip it out
[08:22] <whiprush> that whole "bottom row of an entry being clickable" is kind of suck for both planets
[08:22] <robitaille> whiprush:  in blogger, I have to make sure all my blog text entries are delimited by <p> </p> so that the links work on planet
[08:22] <whiprush> robitaille: mine are like that in typepad also
[08:22] <jdub> whiprush: that's being fixed (same with the top)
[08:23] <whiprush> woo
[08:23] <whiprush> yeah, on a pad on a laptop, planet's been sucking lately.
[08:23] <whiprush> with that bug 
[08:24] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: what is google funding?
[08:25] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, google summer of code
[08:25] <pitti> Morning
[08:26] <whiprush> heya pitti
[08:27] <whiprush> heya to you too sabdfl. :p
[08:27] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:27] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[08:27] <Simira> morning all
[08:27] <whiprush> hey fabbio.
[08:28] <fabbione> hi whiprush 
[08:28] <sabdfl> well howdy guys
[08:28] <whiprush> man, I almost forgot to say, our loco is over 20 now.
[08:28] <sabdfl> edu-buntu summit in london today!
[08:28] <sabdfl> whiprush: stormin!
[08:28] <sabdfl> did you guys read the LinuxTag summary from JoshKress? awesome
[08:28] <whiprush> sabdfl: we're determined to make detroit a destination on the world tour.
[08:29] <whiprush> yeah, read it a few hours ago, wish it had some pics though.
[08:29] <Burgundavia> whiprush, you have more in detroit than I do in my entire loco
[08:29] <fabbione> sabdfl: some good news from ports.u.c.. sparc buildd's are idling for the first time in a year or so :-) we might get out this time :)
[08:30] <sabdfl> fabbione: how the installer look?
[08:30] <whiprush> Burgundavia: don't be discouraged, half our people are just "students interested in linux". Getting them there is easy, getting them to stay and help out is ... as you can imagine, difficult.
[08:30] <fabbione> sabdfl: i need to work on it.. the hoary one was ok.. in breezy is FTBFS atm...
[08:30] <fabbione> sabdfl: but we will get it there ;)
[08:31] <Burgundavia> whiprush, we were too busy gutting ourselves over who to have a contact person
[08:31] <sabdfl> fabbione: anybody out there helping you?
[08:31] <Burgundavia> whiprush, and it wasn't robitaille or myself (the only 2 canadian members)
[08:31] <Amaranth> where is the list of things google is funding?
[08:31] <fabbione> sabdfl: we had quite of a problem with kernel due to an arbitrary change in glibc elf header... 
[08:31] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, BreezyBounties on the udu wiki
[08:31] <fabbione> sabdfl: yes... a bunch of people fixing stuff around
[08:32] <whiprush> Burgundavia: scott balenaves from ltsp is an ubuntu guy, make him #3. 
[08:32] <fabbione> sabdfl: or extremely cooperative...
[08:32] <Burgundavia> whiprush, he is a canuck? bradb is also one
[08:32] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
[08:32] <whiprush> Burgundavia: so you have 4, see, you've already doubled your numbers!
[08:32] <Burgundavia> whiprush, bradb works for canonical, so he doesn't count
[08:32] <whiprush> heh
[08:33] <Amaranth> what's with the overuse of the udu wiki?
[08:34] <Amaranth> someone got the FindingPackages bounty? :/
[08:34] <Amaranth> oh well, i wasn't going to have time to work on it anyway
[08:34] <robitaille> Burgundavia: don't worry, one day the Canadian LoCo will been flying high.  It will just a bit more effort...and time
[08:34] <Burgundavia> when everybody buys my Inuktitut idea
[08:35] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  it is a good idea...just a bit different, and tough to do without local people helping us in the north
[08:36] <Burgundavia> that is what government funding is for
[08:36] <Burgundavia> ahh, tabs turning blue everywhere!
[08:36] <whiprush> scott works for the local government in winnipeg and admins quite a number of thin clients running linux and OOo, get him on board!
[08:36] <Burgundavia> whiprush, got an email?
[08:36] <whiprush> sure.
[08:37] <whiprush> sbalneav@ltsp.org
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> I work for the government and we use ubuntu because I Say
[08:38] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  we're mostly a Mandrake shop for the desktop, but with some Windows machines; the local system admin doesn't want to touch sometjing he isn't familiar with
[08:39] <Burgundavia> prov gov is all XP
[08:39] <Burgundavia> sad
[08:39] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: it will change
[08:39] <Burgundavia> not within 10 years, unless the gov does
[08:42] <ivoks> all my servers are ubuntu :)
[08:42] <ivoks> except one
[08:42] <robitaille> sabdfl:  not clear it will change that easily; we are mostly Linux locally , but higher up they are all Windows; obtained with department-wide contracts that pay Microsoft money per number of employees, no matter if they use Windows/Office or not; so at one point a department has to ask the question:  why some of us don't use the Microsoft products that have already been paid for.
[08:42] <Mithrandir> fabbione: new xcursor uploading now.
[08:42] <whiprush> ivoks: I had to choose a distro before hoary was ready, so I'm with sarge for all our stuff.
[08:42] <ivoks> whiprush: i had sarge too on my servers
[08:43] <ivoks> whiprush: i upgraded/downgraded them to hoary
[08:43] <ivoks> on-line, without reboot :)
[08:43] <whiprush> heh
[08:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[08:43] <Burgundavia> and the entire prov gov is one big contract with two local companies and IBM supplying hardware
[08:44] <whiprush> Burgundavia: I used to work for a US government contractor, I can so feel your pain on this.
[08:44] <sabdfl> robitaille: interesting, the "pay irrespective" idea
[08:45] <sabdfl> robitaille: i think those contracts were popular when people figured there was no alternative
[08:45] <Burgundavia> they are still popular
[08:45] <sabdfl> as soon as they think there IS an alternative, those contracts come up for review
[08:45] <Burgundavia> here in Canada and the US at least
[08:45] <Burgundavia> where we are wealthy enough to pay the MS tax
[08:45] <sabdfl> yes, that's part of it
[08:46] <sabdfl> in developing countries, afaics they are all looking to migrate big chunks
[08:46] <Burgundavia> or they use pirated windows
[08:46] <whiprush> depends on the contract. Here in the US there are provisions for every federal contract for small and minority-owned busineses. 
[08:47] <Burgundavia> the "buy canadian" thing is also starting to penetrate the minds of canadian politicians
[08:47] <Burgundavia> most especially after the patriot act thing
[08:47] <ivoks> our goverment has a contract with MS
[08:47] <whiprush> they won't big contracts but in many defense contracts the big companies will subcontract to smaller companies to win the contract.
[08:48] <whiprush> for example, if you're a native indian alaskan and own a logistics company, there is plenty of money to be made.
[08:49] <whiprush> but on the upside, a good percentage of the us govt is still using novell, so there's some kind of hope for linux in there somewhere.
[08:53] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  the "buy canadian" hasn't  work before; Corel at one point sued and won against the Canadian Government since bidding process was unfairly biased against them toward Microsoft (http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/14_21/federal/1046-1.html).  Now we have very lengthy bidding process for Office suites, but Microsoft still wins every single time
[08:54] <Amaranth> mp1: On GnomePanelEnhancements, you can use <Layout> tags in the menu files to order things and make sure they stay order that way (instead of being alphabetized)
[08:55] <whiprush> fabbione: question: I happen to have a madwifi card, while debugging networkmanager, is the driver in l-r-m as important as the wireless-tools? I don't want submit bugs to network-manager if it's a madwifi issue. 
[08:56] <whiprush> so am I better off submitting bugs to network-manager now, or wait for the madwifi update in l-r-m?
[08:57] <ajmitch> evening
[08:58] <pitti> Hey ajmitch 
[09:10] <Amaranth> hmm, it seems lots of hoary users are finding out that i broke gnome-app-install :)
[09:11] <Amaranth> well, pyxdg broke it, but smeg needs the latest pyxdg so...
[09:12] <hunger> Is there a reason for using pngs as backgrounds for gnome? Saving the image as jpg would shrink it by more than a factor of 20.
[09:12] <Burgundavia> is hdd space still a factor anywhere?
[09:12] <Amaranth> png is free
[09:13] <hunger> Burgundavia: I find it annoying to waste space.
[09:14] <highvoltage> hunger: what's more annoying? a few kb less space, or ugly, distorted images in your working environment?
[09:14] <hunger> Burgundavia: And It is a difference whether I have to download 30k or 900k on upload (minus compression from deb).
[09:14] <hunger> highvoltage: ? Do you really see a difference between jpg and png?
[09:15] <highvoltage> hunger: yes
[09:15] <Amaranth> yes, compressing a png into a jpg will make a smaller image
[09:15] <Burgundavia> but I don't see the win
[09:15] <Amaranth> but it will make an image that looks worse, you're transcoding
[09:15] <Burgundavia> if you have a slow connection, download elsewhere
[09:15] <Burgundavia> or usethe default
[09:16] <hunger> Amaranth: The default background does not have that many details that can get lost;-)
[09:16] <hunger> Burgundavia: I am talking about the two default images.
[09:16] <Burgundavia> the space saving on the disk is not worth the lost clarity
[09:17] <hunger> Burgundavia: The non-ws one is ~870k as png and ~38 as jpg.
[09:17] <hunger> Burgundavia: What do you mean by clarity?
[09:19] <highvoltage> hunger: jpeg distorts images. if you see it often in highly compressed images, you get sensitive toward it.
[09:19] <highvoltage> which is why many of us stick to .png (after we've tried to over-optimise some web pages in the 90's)
[09:19] <Amaranth> oh, the pngs are lossless?
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> highvoltage: you know, both png and jpeg have adjustable compression :)
[09:19] <highvoltage> nope, but they look much better.
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> Amaranth: they can be lossy or lossless
[09:20] <highvoltage> HrdwrBoB: I know, but jpeg is more lossy, afaik
[09:20] <Amaranth> HrdwrBoB: I know. :) I was asking if the backgrounds were lossless.
[09:20] <hunger> highvoltage: The factor 20 is with 90% quality setting for jpg. There is no visible difference.
[09:21] <highvoltage> hunger: a png with the same compression will be smaller as a jpg with the same compression, and the quality will be better.
[09:21] <highvoltage> (ime, anyway)
[09:21] <Amaranth> hunger: You looked at them at 640x480 resolution, right?
[09:21] <hunger> highvoltage: Even with a quality setting of 70% the image is basically identical to the png... jpg is ideal for the image that is used as the default background.
[09:22] <hunger> Amaranth: I look at the image at 400%.
[09:23] <highvoltage> hunger: fine, convert all your ubuntu images to jpeg's then :)
[09:23] <hunger> highvoltage: Sorry, but that is crap... png and jpg use *WAY* different algorithms. You can not really compare the compression technics.
[09:23] <HrdwrBoB> you can
[09:23] <HrdwrBoB> they're both compression techniques for images to display pictures
[09:24] <highvoltage> hunger: of course you can compare them, even though they encode images differently. anyway, this is a silly discussion. google png vs jpg instead, we're wasting irc space.
[09:26] <hunger> highvoltage: I do know both compression technics.
[09:26] <pitti> hunger: in general, jpg is suitable for photo-like pictures, png for drawings (sharp edges)
[09:27] <hunger> pitti: I know both jpg and png compression technics.
[09:27] <hunger> pitti: The default ubuntu background is a perfect match for jpg compression, which is why I was suggesting to use that.
[09:28] <Amaranth> does ubuntu use jpg for anything?
[09:28] <pitti> hunger: right
[09:28] <hunger> Amaranth: Most kde backgroungs.
[09:28] <Amaranth> isn't there a patent on jpg that just hasn't been enforced? (like gif was)
[09:29] <hunger> Amaranth: kubuntu comes with about 50 backgrounds and uses about 5 times the space of the 2 gnome ones.
[09:29] <hunger> Amaranth: Not that I am aware of... but possible.
[09:29] <hunger> Amaranth: In fact: So do I;-)
[09:29] <Burgundavia> kde is all about more options
[09:30] <Amaranth> ha, IBM says they've been able to build G5s for laptops this whole time
[09:32] <hunger> Well, encode your pictures however you want... I do not have to care about the bandwith to update them whichever format you are going to use.
[09:33] <Amaranth> i don't think they ever get updated
[09:33] <Amaranth> what's the package name?
[09:33] <hunger> Amaranth: Yes... considering that they are still called warty;-)
[09:33] <Amaranth> gnome-backgrounds?
[09:34] <hunger> Amaranth: ubuntu-artwork
[09:34] <Amaranth> ubuntu-artwork?
[09:34] <Amaranth> ah
[09:35] <Amaranth> 3 different debs
[09:35] <Amaranth> could just be 3 different versions of ubuntu
[09:53] <pitti> stupid me -- /etc/init.d/gdm stop != /etc/init.d/gpm stop
[09:54] <hunger> pitti: You are doing this too?
[09:54] <pitti> hunger: I fixed a gpm bug in the init script, but mistyped...
[10:09] <pitti> Hey trulux 
[10:09] <trulux> hey pitti 
[10:19] <shackan> hi pitti
[10:19] <pitti> Hi shackan 
[10:20] <shackan> I'm one of the lucky guys doing the SoC with you, remember ?
[10:21] <Amaranth> which one are you? your whois doesn't have a name
[10:21] <pitti> shackan: of course, I already missed you :-)
[10:21] <shackan> sorry but I was without an internet connection until yesterday
[10:22] <shackan> pitti, I have a question, is it ok if I put the code on berlios ?
[10:23] <Kamion> morning
[10:23] <pitti> Hey Kamion 
[10:23] <pitti> shackan: I don't mind where the code is, as long as I can download it (what's berlios?)
[10:24] <pitti> shackan: will you use a vcs? Maybe even arch? :-)
[10:24] <shackan> http://developer.berlios.de/
[10:24] <shackan> berlios relies on svn, but it seems they have cvs too
[10:25] <shackan> btw, what is arch ? :)
[10:25] <Amaranth> hook him up with bzr? :)
[10:25] <pitti> shackan: sure, that looks fine; however, please use svn, cvs is soo evil
[10:25] <pitti> Amaranth: good idea :-)
[10:25] <Amaranth> arch is a distributed vcs
[10:26] <pitti> shackan: GNU arch is another version control system; one particular implementation ("bazaar") is very popular among the Ubuntu developers 
[10:26] <pitti> shackan: it has a strong emphasis on branching 
[10:26] <shackan> mmkay, sorry I didn't know that
[10:26] <Amaranth> basically anyone can work on something with full vcs capabilities on their own branch then just point you to the branch when they're done
[10:26] <pitti> well, svn is certainly fine for now
[10:27] <pitti> shackan: see Amaranth, right; and then you can merge and cherrypick from each other
[10:27] <shackan> nice :)
[10:29] <Amaranth> bazaar-ng usable yet?
[10:29] <Amaranth> err, that should have an is
[10:29] <pitti> Amaranth: I use it for pmount now
[10:29] <pitti> Amaranth: I emulate "push" with a wrapper that calls rsync 
[10:30] <pitti> Amaranth: but pull, commit, diff, log, merge, etc. work fine
[10:30] <Amaranth> what about pull?
[10:30] <Amaranth> oh, pull is done?
[10:30] <pitti> yes
[10:30] <pitti> bzr is a breeze, it's so much easier to set up than bazaar-ng
[10:30] <pitti> erm, bazaar
[10:31] <pitti> it always takes me a while to get a newbie going with baz
[10:31] <Amaranth> hrm, didn't debian have a newer version of bzr once?
[10:31] <Amaranth> i mean, they had a version newer than ubuntu's version
[10:32] <pitti> Amaranth: 0.0.5 is in breezy too, but it's ftbfs
[10:32] <Amaranth> ah, that's what it was
[10:32] <pitti> Amaranth: I nagged bob2___ a while ago, but he didn't fix it yet
[10:32] <Amaranth> ok, bzr lovers, use debian! :D
[10:32] <pitti> Amaranth: I use bzr bzr head :-)
[10:32] <Amaranth> that's kinda funny
[10:33] <pitti> Amaranth: I just downloaded bzr.dev and do a "bzr pull" from time to time. 0.0.5 doesn't have merge yet
[10:33] <lifeless> pitti: lol
[10:34] <pitti> lifeless: ?
[10:34] <lifeless> "bzr is a breeze, it's so much easier to set up than bazaar-ng"
[10:34] <pitti> lifeless: conceptually
[10:34] <lifeless> oh its true
[10:34] <lifeless> it was the bzr is easier than bzr thing I laughed at
[10:35] <pitti> lifeless: personally I really love baz, but explaining all the id and archive setup always takes a while for newbies
[10:35] <lifeless> sweet, thanks
[10:35] <pitti> lifeless: <pitti> erm, bazaar :-)
[10:35] <lifeless> 1.5 is bringing in much nicer inventory management
[10:35] <lifeless> should make some performance difference too ;)
[10:35] <pitti> lifeless: btw, thanks for fixing relative paths with undo/commit - that really sucked
[10:35] <pitti> nice
[10:36] <lifeless> pitti: cool
[10:36] <lifeless> leonerd did the heavy lifting there, if you want to thank him ;)
[10:39] <Amaranth> now we just need a bzr gnome-vfs backend that does branches on copy (from remote to local) and merges on copy (from local to remote?)
[10:40] <pitti> Amaranth: a copy _is_ a branch in bzr (there's no explicit branch command AFAIK)
[10:40] <Amaranth> well, i meant something like DnD from nautilus windows
[10:41] <pitti> yes, I meant that branch is essentially already implemented :-)
[10:41] <pitti> Amaranth: and since merge requires manual resolving, this probably won't happen with DnD
[10:42] <pitti> Amaranth: but push would be nice
[10:42] <Amaranth> DnD and open gedit with tabs of things that need to be merged
[10:43] <Amaranth> does it crap in your files like cvs does?
[10:43] <pitti> Amaranth: I didn't try conflicted merges
[10:43] <pitti> Amaranth: my bigger projects with many branches (postgresql) use bazaar, I don't yet dare to use bzr
[10:44] <lifeless> Amaranth: what do you mean by crap in your files ?
[10:45] <Amaranth> lifeless: Well, cvs dumps something like diff output in your files
[10:45] <niran> i spent the last day or so wrapping my head around bazaar and playing with it
[10:45] <niran> i am in love.
[10:45] <mae> Is there a straightforward method of using eclipse/cdt to make GTK projects, i.e. on the linux platform, I would normally use "pkg-config" to configure all the libs and includes for gtk and/or glade.. how can i integrate such functionality into eclipse?
[10:45] <lifeless> Amaranth: if you mean the <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ... [10:45] <lifeless> niran: sweet
[10:46] <Amaranth> lifeless: For once, that's a good thing. My idea could work. :)
[10:46] <pitti> lifeless: I think the bazaar .orig and .rej approach is nicer
[10:46] <pitti> lifeless: I would just like to get the .rej files in unidiff format
[10:46] <Amaranth> when merging with conflicts, it could open gedit with a tab for each conflicting file
[10:46] <pitti> but AFAIK patch doesn't support that
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion morning 
[10:47] <lifeless> pitti: yah. the problem there is repeated merges - bazaar does diff3 conflict foo too if you use merge.
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: if you want to send me your try i can do easily a test build....
[10:47] <Amaranth> save them and the conflict is resolved
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: i have 2 buildd's idling ;)
[10:47] <lifeless> pitti: hopefully we'll get some interesting results out of bzr and be able to improve this
[10:47] <Kamion> fabbione: edit build/config/sparc/sparc64/netboot-2.6.cfg, replace the KERNELNAME value with just 'vmlinuz'
[10:48] <Kamion> I much prefer CVS/svn's approach to conflicts, FWIW
[10:48] <Kamion> although as pitti says unidiff .rej files would help
[10:48] <pitti> Kamion: I'd like to have that in patch in general
[10:48] <pitti> patch --unidiff-rej
[10:48] <Amaranth> Kamion: I like the diff output, I don't like the extra files you have to remove before it considers the conflict resolved
[10:49] <pitti> applying non-unidiff rejected patches is a PITA
[10:49] <Kamion> the CVS/svn approach means that one does not have to either (a) use specialised tools like emacs' 3diff mode or (b) copy chunks of stuff from one file to another in order to resolve the conflict
[10:49] <pitti> hm, right
[10:49] <Kamion> it's just "edit single file"
[10:49] <Kamion> Amaranth: yeah, 'baz resolved' should remove those for you
[10:50] <lifeless> pitti: is there such an option ?
[10:50] <pitti> lifeless: no, but there should be :-/
[10:50] <pitti> lifeless: it's badly missing
[10:50] <lifeless> Kamion: nice idea, care to file a bug ?
[10:51] <Kamion> lifeless: sure, doing now
[10:51] <lifeless> Amaranth: baz doesn't require the files to be removed, unless one deliberately configures a tree to be like that. it used to require it by default .
[10:51] <Kamion> lifeless: it's already filed, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/360
[10:53] <lifeless> Kamion: heh, ok
[10:53] <Amaranth> Kamion: baz resolved is too much work
[10:54] <lifeless> Amaranth: baz resolved --all
[10:54] <Amaranth> Kamion: whether i've cleaned up the file to remove the diff stuff or not, next time i commit it consider it resolved
[10:54] <Amaranth> that's how i think it should be, anyway
[10:54] <lifeless> Amaranth: I take it you've never put yourself in merge hell by committing the <<<<[10:55] <Amaranth> nope
[10:55] <Amaranth> but you shouldn't blame the user for the failings of the computer
[10:55] <Amaranth> s/blame/torture/
[10:56] <pitti> it's not the computer that failed...
[10:56] <Amaranth> then i didn't understand what 'merge hell' was
[10:56] <pitti> lifeless: indeed, maybe resolved should be dropped and instead bzr should refuse to commit a file if it contains such markers
[10:56] <pitti> (and bazaar, too) :-)
[10:57] <lifeless> pitti: well, resolved was added by user request.
[10:57] <pitti> hm, ok
[10:57] <lifeless> some things will annoy some users but please others
[10:57] <pitti> lifeless: well, it's necessary with external rej files, but also with inline markers?
[10:57] <lifeless> I'm sure that I'd get bug reports if we had a heuristic on files - what if you *do* want [10:58] <Amaranth> pitti: Actually, I like your idea plus a 'resolved' command for forcing things through.
[10:58] <lifeless> pitti: huh? external rej files don't affect commit or not-commit. resolved is 100% UI assistance.
[10:58] <Amaranth> and _no_ extra files
[10:59] <Amaranth> lifeless: When would you have a bunch of <s, =s, and >s in the same file?
[10:59] <Amaranth> lifeless: other than when you've got a conflict
[10:59] <lifeless> well in my specific case, when I'm testing conflict output ;)
[11:00] <lifeless> but the point is that its a heuristic - its hoping that noone else does that
[11:00] <Amaranth> you could use the file's modified time to figure out if the user edited the file after it conflicted
[11:00] <lifeless> vcs tools should not impose limits on what you can store in them
[11:01] <pitti> well, right, that was the advantage of external .rej files
[11:12] <fabbione> Kamion: meh.... E: Couldn't find package cdrom-core-modules-2.4.27-2-sparc32-di
[11:12] <fabbione> we are still trying to build 2.4 :P
[11:12] <fabbione> and sparc32 ;)
[11:12] <Kamion> huh
[11:13] <Kamion> don't see where - please mail me the new build log?
[11:15] <fabbione> it's in the miniiso..
[11:16] <fabbione> sure.. in a minute.. i wasn't saving the log
[11:25] <fabbione> Kamion: the first fix seems to work :)
[11:25] <fabbione> (mail on the way)
[11:41] <Kamion> fabbione: oh, ok, try putting 'MEDIUM_SUPPORTED = 2.6' at the top of build/config/sparc/cdrom.cfg please
[11:42] <fabbione> Kamion: building
[11:44] <fabbione> hmm p-a-l is going to be a very interesting challenge :/
[11:52] <fabbione> Kamion: the next error is interesting.. it's trying to use cramfs...
[11:53] <Kamion> INITRD_FS = cramfs
[11:53] <Kamion> hmm
[11:53] <Kamion> isn't that correct?
[11:54] <fabbione> build/config/sparc/cdrom/2.6.cfg:INITRD_FS = cramfs
[11:54] <Kamion> bit silly to have it just for cdrom though maybe
[11:54] <fabbione> it wasn't cramfs before..
[11:54] <fabbione> well i don't mind.. we need to add the build-dep
[11:55] <Kamion> ok, just zap that line, upstream's building for ext2
[11:55] <fabbione> cramfsprogs [powerpc ia64 mips sparc]  <-
[11:55] <fabbione> ok
[11:56] <fabbione> zapped
[12:03] <mvo> hmmm ... food 
[12:04] <\sh> would be nice
[12:14] <tseng> infinity: yep. thanks
[12:15] <uniq> can kubuntu-5.04-dvd-powerpc.iso be downloaded somewhere.. so i can setup a seeder for bittorrent? downloading from torrent stops at ~70% for everyone.
[12:15] <Kamion> torrent.ubuntu.com may not be working properly
[12:15] <Kamion> elmo: ?
[12:16] <elmo> meh, stupid tracker died
[12:19] <elmo> restarted
[12:20] <uniq> thanks :)
[12:21] <niran> mvo, searching works now in gnome-app-install, and it is glorious.
[12:21] <niran> now i can sleep in peace.
[12:22] <mvo> niran: it's 5 in the morning for you, right :) ?
[12:22] <niran> mvo, yes. yes it is.
[12:22] <mvo> niran: I'll check the archive now then, please don't forget baz archive-mirror :)
[12:23] <niran> mvo, i did
[12:23] <niran> if anyone else wants to play with it, knock yourself out: http://niran.org/arch/niran@niran.org--soc/gnome-app-install--niran--0/
[12:23] <fabbione> Kamion: d-i builded.. checking the contents :)
[12:24] <Kamion> fabbione: I tweaked my working tree slightly to do KERNELNAME = $(KERNELNAME_2.6) instead of = vmlinuz, but that should be safe
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: i can rebuild to test.. no problem at all
[12:25] <Kamion> I wouldn't bother, I'm just mentioning it for completeness
[12:25] <fabbione> Kamion: for once that i can claim spare CPU's cycles.. let me enjoy my little moment of glory :P
[12:25] <Kamion> heh
[12:26] <fabbione> Kamion: hmm not.. that won't work
[12:26] <Kamion> ?
[12:27] <fabbione> nevermind.. wrong file :)
[12:40] <fabbione> Kamion: d-i looks good :)
[12:45] <Kamion> excellent, I'll upload once I've figured out what's going on with cdebconf
[12:45] <fabbione> sure
[12:45] <fabbione> i did a binNMU in the meanwhile...
[12:45] <Kamion> (in order that I can use the upload to suck in a new cdebconf)
[12:45] <fabbione> so i can test it if i get to have spare time from my wife ;)
[12:45] <Kamion> it's a hard life
[12:46] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. i have no rush really.. sparc is looking much better now that we have 2 buildd's
[12:46] <fabbione> Kamion: you will soon join the team
[12:46] <lifeless> is mdz on leave ?
[12:46] <fabbione> Kamion: next time you will tell me: "eh yeah i understand"
[12:46] <fabbione> lifeless: uk eduubuntu
[12:46] <lifeless> ah, k
[12:49] <Kamion> fabbione: hah
[12:49] <Kamion> fabbione: (but yeah)
[12:50] <fabbione> Kamion: do we have a primitive in d-i to understand if a certain recipe will create /boot (or any other partition) ?
[12:51] <fabbione> the problem is that some recipes create /boot, other don't
[12:51] <fabbione> i need to filter it so that if it has /boot, i will use the recipe info to create /boot outside LVM and filter it later for creating LVM partitions
[12:52] <fabbione> if it doesn't i need to create it from scratch
[12:54] <Kamion> fabbione: don't think so, talk to Anton Zinoviev
[12:56] <fabbione> ok
[12:56] <fabbione> does he irc?
[12:57] <carstenh> pitti: i've just updated the wiki :)
[01:01] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[01:02] <carstenh> hi pitti 
[01:09] <Kamion> fabbione: not much, he's in Bulgaria and connected to the rest of the world by a piece of wet spaghetti as far as I can tell
[01:09] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. i think i found an easy way to do it
[01:15] <fabbione> yup
[01:18] <{Seb}> sorry to bother you guys
[01:19] <{Seb}> but after doing a latest upgrade on Breezy
[01:19] <{Seb}> i can't login
[01:19] <{Seb}> i exited Xorg and ran startx from the command line
[01:19] <{Seb}> the errors including
[01:19] <{Seb}> Could not init font path element unix/:7100, removing from list!
[01:20] <{Seb}> Synaptics DeviceOff called
[01:20] <daniels> those aren't actual errors
[01:20] <{Seb}> right
[01:20] <fabbione> {Seb}: you have been asked a few times already to ask these questions in #ubuntu
[01:20] <daniels> suggest you put your Xorg.0.log up on pastebin.com or such -- and this is far more of an #ubuntu thing than #ubuntu-devel
[01:20] <fabbione> please respect the policy for this channel
[01:20] <daniels> breezy is not always expected to be totally usable: in particular, there are a number of 'gotchas' with upgrading X that mean you have be to be very comfortable with fixing broken systems if you want to use it right now
[01:21] <{Seb}> where is the Xorg.log ?
[01:21] <daniels> #ubuntu, please
[01:47] <Kamion> elmo: could I have libnewt-dev libtextwrap-dev libdebian-installer4-dev in concordia's breezy chroot, please?
[02:01] <Kamion> lifeless: any word on svn syncs?
[02:07] <Kamion> elmo: actually, don't bother, I'm a muppet
[02:08] <Kamion> note to self: do not assume that current CD images were built before the version of d-i you checked was in the archive an hour or two *after* the CD images were built
[02:08] <Kamion> s/before/with/
[02:09] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[02:09] <pitti> mdz: how's the hotel? :-)
[02:09] <mvo> hey mdz 
[02:09] <mdz> pitti: ok
[02:09] <mdz> about to break for lunch
[02:10] <mdz> the weather in london is dreary as usual
[02:10] <Kamion> speaking of lunch
[02:10] <pitti> well, a Californian is not easily impressed...
[02:10] <mvo> the weather in germany is pretty depressing too (at least in my part)
[02:11] <pitti> ah, mvo
[02:11] <fabbione> hey mdz
[02:11] <pitti> mvo: I plan to upload the split langpacks soon (monday maybe, still have to test them a bit)
[02:12] <mvo> pitti: you need a update to the language chooser then? no problem
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: I will add an upgrade notice about the split
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: in that note I mentioned to consider the language selector
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: is that possible?
[02:12] <pitti> i. e. to do the transition automatically?
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: it doesn't need to be ready at Monday, but by Breezy of course
[02:13] <mvo> pitti: could you please give me the url of the final plan for the langpack split. i think it can be done
[02:13] <pitti> mvo: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackRoadmap is all I have
[02:14] <pitti> mvo: I think the per-domain mapping can be done later; a coarse Ubuntu/Kubuntu distinction should be enough for now
[02:14] <mvo> pitti: so we'll have -main, -kde, -gnome?
[02:15] <pitti> well, we have l-p-de, l-p-kde-de, l-p-gnome-de
[02:15] <pitti> I didn't want to add yet another 100 packages to introduce -main
[02:15] <mvo> ok
[02:15] <pitti> (well, 200 actually for base and update)
[02:16] <pitti> mvo: can they be told apart by looking at /etc/lsb-release?
[02:16] <pitti> mvo: i. e. is there "kubuntu" anywhere on kubuntu?
[02:16] <Riddell> no
[02:16] <mvo> pitti: my current idea would be to check if the "kde" package is installed
[02:17] <Riddell> mvo: check for kubuntu-desktop
[02:17] <mvo> Riddell: thanks
[02:17] <pitti> mvo: I'd rather check for kde-core, since we don't have Kubuntu, but KDE language packs
[02:19] <Riddell> well kubuntu doesn't install kde-core
[02:19] <pitti> makes the thing more generic
[02:19] <mvo> seb128: you asked me about direct insalls of debs with synaptic. as soon as apt can do it, synaptic will support it too. there is a apt--local-install--0 branch that works for me. I "just" need to sneak it somehow into apt--main 
[02:19] <pitti> mvo: hm, it almost seems that we do need to select by actually installed packages and domains...
[02:20] <mvo> pitti: looking for the packages is not a big deal is not a big deal as long as the package names are known
[02:20] <pitti> mvo: seb128 will distract mdz for a while with a panel bug, then you can merge :-)
[02:20] <pitti> mvo: I can give you can give you the map :-)
[02:21] <seb128> easy :)
[02:21] <mvo> pitti: with the map it should be easy
[02:22] <mvo> (because language-selector already has to know about packages)
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: I currently have a map source package -> {kde,gnome,}
[02:22] <mvo> seb128, pitti: yeah! for distraction :)
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: however, generating a map binary package -> {kde,gnome,} should be easy
[02:23] <seb128> jdub: translation list?
[02:23] <pitti> mvo: in fact l-s can produce that map on its own
[02:23] <seb128> jdub: I could use it now to send something to translators ... :)
[02:23] <pitti> mvo: I have a simple heuristics in langpack-o-matic which correctly maps all source packages
[02:25] <mvo> pitti: do you export it somewhere? 
[02:25] <mvo> (the list I mean)
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: not that map, it's done on the fly
[02:25] <pitti> I /msg'ed you
[02:54] <mdz> mvo: hi, thanks for tracking that apt bug
[02:54] <mdz> mvo: did you find the cause of the root bug, or just the wrong error message?
[02:57] <mvo> mdz: so far only the wrong message. for the root of the bug I somewhat suspect the ftp.nl server. I can only reproduce it with that server
[03:01] <pitti> hi icaro 
[03:01] <icaro> hi pitti 
[03:12] <seb128> elmo: libgtk2-perl sync should be fine now ? :) Can we sync gnome-alsamixer again (dholbach asked to drop it for no real reason and is fine to sync it)
[03:20] <elmo> seb128: done
[03:21] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[03:29] <mdz> Kamion: now that we have debootstrap 3, when debootstrap is failing (like now, on libiw28), what does it mean we need to do?  update the overrides?
[03:30] <\sh> hmm...anyone knows a possibility to buy ubuntu branded material in germany, for people without a CCard?
[03:53] <pitti> Hey Keybuk 
[03:54] <Keybuk> heyhey
[04:05] <Kamion> mdz: yes, see jackass:~cjwatson/jessica which tells you what to do
[04:05] <Kamion> mdz: (or use debootstrap --resolve-deps)
[04:05] <Kamion> Packages to change from priority extra to important
[04:05] <Kamion> ---------------------------------------------------
[04:05] <Kamion> libiw28
[04:06] <Kamion> mdz: note that some of the things it says are wrong, because it's only looking at germinate output on one arch
[04:06] <Kamion> mdz: so it requires some human care
[04:07] <Kamion> mdz: I've fixed the priorities of libiw{27,28}
[04:21] <CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com lists linux-image-686 but apt-get/cache don't see it - is this a bug?
[04:21] <Kamion> linux-image-686 has been there for ever ...
[04:21] <Kamion> check sources.list, apt-get update
[04:22] <Kamion> if you only have a CD in sources.list you won't get linux-image-686
[04:22] <CarlFK> ah - that explains it
[04:22] <CarlFK> i thought everyting in main was on the cd
[04:23] <pitti> CarlFK: that's the DVD
[04:26] <CarlFK> thanks
[04:30] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[04:33] <Kamion> mdz: also, cdimage fixes those priorities up based on its own germinate runs, so problems in the archive there shouldn't affect CD releases
[04:33] <Kamion> yay, amd64 works again, powerpc doing pretty well
[04:46] <maswan> Oh, joy. Reading /proc/net/tcp causes package loss when you are pushing some bandwidth.
[04:47] <maswan> s/package/packet/
[04:53] <Kamion> mdz: have you tested recent live CDs at all?
[04:53] <Kamion> I'd like to release colony 2 but I'm leaving before I have time to try it
[04:53] <Kamion> installs fine ...
[04:53] <highvoltage> mdz: i see the breezy ltsp package installs nbd, is it used for local disk access?
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: yay, fully translated gtk, panel, evolution, etc. again
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: wanna test the new langpacks? :-)
[05:06] <CarlFK> hoary, "recording level monitor" says "cannot connect to sound deamon.  please run 'esd' at a command prompt." but no sudo, so access denied.  is this worth a bug report? 
[05:08] <pitti> CarlFK: why sudo?
[05:08] <CarlFK> "access denied"
[05:08] <pitti> hm?
[05:08] <CarlFK> a user cant launch esd
[05:08] <pitti> esd is a pure user app
[05:08] <CarlFK> hmm
[05:09] <CarlFK>  /dev/dsp: Permission denied
[05:09] <CarlFK> guessing it is because the user isn't in the audio group
[05:09] <pitti> that's possible
[05:10] <CarlFK> although I am curious about the " at a command prompt" - that seems not verry Ubunu-ish
[05:13] <HrdwrBoB> CarlFK: the default user is in audio
[05:13] <HrdwrBoB> yeah submit a bigreport
[05:14] <CarlFK> oh yeah... not a bug.. this is an added user
[05:25] <Kamion> come *on*, little
[05:25] <pitti> Kamion: colony 2?
[05:25] <Kamion> aye
[05:25] <pitti> \o/
[05:25] <Kamion> though untested live CD unfortunately
[05:25] <Kamion> if it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't ;-)
[05:26] <pitti> tautologically true at least :-)
[05:26] <CarlFK> Kamion - if you can make it pxe boot, Ill test it every morning ;)
[05:27] <Kamion> tempting
[05:27] <Kamion> be bloody slow mind you :)
[05:27] <Kamion> of course I'm going to release this image and then immediately run off to a different country for the weekend, but hey
[05:28] <CarlFK> knoppix does it - it might even be faster than booting from the CD 
[05:29] <CarlFK> yeah... HD access over the LAN is quicker than most of my CD drives
[05:29] <Kamion> the casper hacking required would probably not be too difficult
[05:31] <Kamion> :-)
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: oh, wanna help seb128 to fix some gtk bugs?
[05:31] <Kamion> no way
[05:32] <CarlFK> pretty sure they have le net access ;)
[05:43] <terje> sorry to bother, I asked in #ubuntu already. I'd like to customize the startup script that requests Language and Keyboard information on the ubuntu live CD. Does anyone know where that's located on the extracted CD image?
[05:44] <lu|away> terje: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//LiveCDCustomizationHowTo <- in there, somewhere, I believe
[05:44] <terje> I've read that already and it's not in there.
[05:44] <terje> there's a lot of great info in there though...
[05:44] <terje> I'm finished w/ the isolinux part.
[05:45] <lu|away> oh, you want to customize it
[05:45] <lu|away> I had assumed 'customize' meant 'force it to one language'
[05:45] <terje> what I'm trying to do actually, is have the CD boot and not ask the user any questions.
[05:45] <terje> I'd like to preselect some defaults
[05:46] <wasabi_> I am speaking out of my ass, so I don't know anything... but here's what I suspect.
[05:46] <wasabi_> There is a debconf file listing prefilled question answers someplace. ;)
[05:46] <terje> heh
[05:46] <terje> go on....
[05:46] <terje> ;)
[05:46] <wasabi_> I did some work on making an unattended d-i
[05:46] <wasabi_> a few months ago.
[05:47] <terje> unattended d-i ?
[05:47] <wasabi_> yeah
[05:47] <wasabi_> I belive the liveCD is just d-i.
[05:47] <terje> what's d-i ?
[05:47] <wasabi_> debian installer
[05:47] <terje> oh!
[05:47] <terje> ok, I gotcha.
[05:47] <wasabi_> So, armed with that knowledge, I assume the language selection process is a debconf question
[05:48] <wasabi_> and that you can preanswer it by finding this file and just putting the key/value into it
[05:48] <terje> right, that's exactly what I'm after.
[05:59] <terje> I wonder if there's anymore documentation that explains how the live CD is laid out.
[06:00] <\sh> elmo: ping -> please remove sip-qt3, h.a.l. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates
[06:03] <wasabi_> What is 'gecos'?
[06:04] <terje> it's your entry info in /etc/passwd
[06:05] <terje> more specifically, the users 'real name' in /etc/passwd
[06:07] <\sh> hey mvo, janew :)
[06:08] <mvo> hey \sh 
[06:13] <dilinger> hm
[06:13] <tseng> dilinger: at least they are sans-porn this time
[06:14] <tseng> id feel a little weird going in to pick those up
[06:14] <dilinger> tseng: but i like porn!
[06:14] <dilinger> :)
[06:17] <JaneW> hi \sh
[06:18] <\sh> JaneW: how is london today? And how is ogra behaving? I hope he's not boring u with his statements about gnome *lol*
[06:25] <seb128> pitti: have you updated the language-packs or is colony 2 a "my translations suck" version? :)
[06:25] <highvoltage> hi JaneW 
[06:28] <Nafallo> maswan: ping!
[06:30] <JaneW> hello highvoltage ...
[06:30] <Nafallo> maswan: error 403 on http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/
[06:36] <mdz> highvoltage: nbd is to be used for swapping over the network
[06:37] <mdz> Kamion: I tested a live CD about a week ago, and X failed to start I think
[06:38] <mdz> Kamion: I'm not going to be able to test live CDs until I return home, I expect
[06:43] <pitti> seb128: no, it's not on colony 2
[06:44] <wasabi_> Hey wow
[06:44] <wasabi_> anybody tried putting ubuntu live cd in a windows box? haha
[06:45] <ddaa> seb128: the copyright files for bonobo and libbonobo appear to be out of date
[06:45] <ddaa> (ftp download addresses are not public)
[06:46] <ddaa> mh... apparently it's just that ftp.gnome.org is broken...
[06:46] <seb128> ddaa: ftp://ftp.gnome.org ?
[06:47] <seb128> ddaa: yep, there is some issue atm
[06:47] <ddaa> I guess the guy in charge is Novell staff :)
[06:47] <seb128> rather redhat guys
[06:48] <ddaa> I love to get upstream issues fixed by complaining to a co-worker :)
[06:49] <seb128> actually jdub is the right guy to complain for that probably :p
[06:49] <ddaa> seb128: btw, do you have any clue of the way gnome tarballs relate to cvs branches?
[06:49] <seb128> jdub: ftp.gnome.org is private now? :)
[06:50] <Lathiat> seb128: yeh we turned it into a warez dump
[06:50] <Lathiat> apparently acc have broken something
[06:50] <seb128> ddaa: they use gnome-2-n for names
[06:51] <seb128> and tag BLABLA_2_N_M for the tarballs
[06:52] <ddaa> okay so, for example, libbonobo-2.8.1 likely comes from the the branch gnome-2-8 in the libbonobo module, while bonobo-1.0.22 likely comes from MAIN?
[06:52] <seb128> no
[06:52] <seb128> -1.0.22 is a GNOME1 stuff
[06:53] <ddaa> yes... but I have been told it is in the libbonobo cvs history...
[06:53] <ddaa> maybe I was told wrong
[06:53] <ddaa> (this sort of shit is a bit difficult to figure out)
[06:54] <ddaa> So... you agree with the "libbonobo-2.8.1 likely comes from the the branch gnome-2-8 in the libbonobo module" bit?
[06:54] <seb128> yep
[06:54] <seb128> jdub probably knows for GNOME 1 stuff
[06:54] <seb128> I've started to use GNOME with GNOME 2 ....
[06:55] <seb128> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/ is useful for such stuff
[06:55] <ddaa> lifeless told me that bonobo ~ libbonobo for RCS purposes...
[06:56] <ddaa> seb128: yes, I know, but it's still archaeology...
[06:56] <ddaa> And I prefer to ask people who know to sanity check my assumptions.
[06:56] <ddaa> Don't worry, I'm not going to bother you for each and every gnome package.
[06:56] <seb128> yeah, that would be jdub for this one
[06:57] <ddaa> Just the annoying shitty confusing obscure ones :)
[06:57] <seb128> or you can try on #gnome-hackers on gimpnet
[06:57] <seb128> people here come from the GNOME1 ages :p
[06:58] <ddaa> that's too much trouble... guess and hearsay will be enough, anyway, nobody really cares about gnome1 anymore.
[06:58] <seb128> nop
[06:58] <seb128> we are planning to drop these packages
[06:58] <seb128> not all because some app (ie: gnucash) still use GNOME 1
[06:59] <ddaa> gnucash... NIH galore
[06:59] <ddaa> they have reivented about everything in gnome and guile...
[07:07] <JaneW> highvoltage: fwiw I fixed the typo in the agenda for you ;)
[07:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: thanks! i'll edit the description a bit...
[07:11] <JaneW> highvoltage: great thanks
[07:26] <\sh> ok...time to go :)
[07:26] <\sh> cu later ladies :)
[07:35] <dilinger> what's the url to that ubuntu logo that's been floating around?  the 3 naked people
[07:36] <dilinger> it was on planet.u.o a week or two ago
[07:37] <Lathiat> http://www.alobbs.com/images/3ubuntu.jpg
[07:38] <mdz> elmo,wasabi: did eclipse get sorted out?
[07:38] <dilinger> Lathiat: thanks
[07:39] <siretart> hi folks
[07:40] <siretart> is there some issue with the torrent tracker? I don't get any seed with bittorrent when downloading colony-2 i386 live-cd
[07:42] <mdz> terje: you can preseed all of the questions by the usual d-i means
[08:02] <tseng> thom: would you suggest i take networking out of my runlevel, or will it actually integrate usefully with NM someday?
[08:10] <Lathiat> which is annoying
[08:11] <Lathiat> i cant for example bring up eth0 with an ip temporarily, NM eats it
[08:12] <Lathiat> its totally useless, it wont even do a basic install, the installer crashes out with some python backtrace
[08:13] <tseng> the whole idea behind CentOS is a joke
[08:13] <tseng> "here, use redhat with no support"
[08:13] <Lathiat> i know
[08:13] <Lathiat> i just find it amusing that it wont do a basic install
[08:13] <tseng> that defeats the whole purpose, no one runs RH because they want to
[08:13] <tseng> :D
[08:13] <Lathiat> heh yeh
[08:14] <Lathiat> oh well that was a wasted download
[08:14] <Lathiat> suse seems pretty neat
[08:14] <tseng> if you like kde maybe
[08:14] <Lathiat> im ignoring that
[08:15] <mae> Hi, is there a good howto or informational site on how to do C development on linux w/ eclipse?  I am a bit confused on how I can integrate something like `pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --cflags --libs` into the eclipse make system
[08:15] <Lathiat> the bootup process is nice, and yast seems to work fairly well
[08:15] <Lathiat> im sure i'd hate it shortly after i actually tried using it for anything usefull or something
[08:15] <tseng> Lathiat: dont forget submount
[08:15] <Lathiat> ah yes, submount
[08:15] <Lathiat> <3
[08:15] <Lathiat> so is ubuntu going to get a nice pretty bootup process in breezy
[08:15] <tseng> right after sladen stops spreading plagues and starts coding
[08:16] <Lathiat> heh
[08:16] <Lathiat> one thing i found interesting about suse
[08:16] <Lathiat> if i kill X
[08:16] <Lathiat> it comes back within 1-2 seconds
[08:16] <Lathiat> as in, boot loader and all
[08:16] <Lathiat> s/boot/session
[08:17] <Lathiat> seems to be a hacked up xdm which kinda explains it
[08:18] <tseng> Lathiat: eh you mean it logs you back in?
[08:18] <Lathiat> tseng: no as in it comes back to xdm
[08:18] <tseng> hm sure
[08:18] <Lathiat> tseng: back after hitting ctrl+alt+backspace its back ready to go in like 2 seconds
[08:18] <tseng> kdm?
[08:18] <Lathiat> im sure there X loads faster than ours, gdm aside
[08:18] <Lathiat> tseng: it appears to be a pretty looking xdm
[08:19] <tseng> are they maybe using dlloader?
[08:19] <tseng> that starts faster in my experience
[08:19] <Lathiat> dlloader?
[08:19] <tseng> er
[08:19] <tseng> its an xorg module loader that doesnt sacrifice goats to load things by pure magic
[08:19] <Lathiat> oh
[08:20] <tseng> it uses dlopen and resolves symbols like a normal application
[08:20] <Lathiat> what does xorg do now?
[08:20] <tseng> evil things
[08:20] <Lathiat> ah, is dlloader better?
[08:20] <tseng> yes
[08:20] <Lathiat> why arent we using it?
[08:20] <tseng> nvidia
[08:20] <tseng> or was it ati
[08:20] <tseng> one of them supports it now
[08:20] <tseng> i think the other does not
[08:20] <tseng> youd have to see daniels 
[08:20] <Lathiat> heh it breaks with that?
[08:20] <tseng> yeah
[08:20] <maswan> Nafallo: we just patched and rebooted the ftpcluster
[08:20] <tseng> they have to be linked properly to work
[08:21] <Lathiat> tseng: as in open source or binary
[08:21] <tseng> binaries are fine
[08:21] <tseng> they just need to be sane binaries
[08:21] <maswan> Nafallo: it should be working now, right?
[08:21] <Lathiat> s/binary/proprietary binary
[08:21] <tseng> which nothing was until recently
[08:21] <Lathiat> i.e. nv vs nvisia, ati vs fglrx
[08:21] <tseng> closed ones
[08:21] <Lathiat> right
[08:21] <tseng> needed fixed
[08:21] <tseng> at least one was
[08:25] <Lathiat> hey cool, the FC4 installer generates a kickstart file
[08:25] <mae> FC4 blows.
[08:25] <Lathiat> maybe, but the kickstart generation rocks :P)
[08:25] <mae> its very polished, yes, but oh.. how i LOATHE yum/rpm
[08:26] <Lathiat> (I'm fiddling with various distros i havent touched with a barge pole for a long time
[08:26] <Justin> Lathiat: debian-installer will if you tell it to
[08:26] <mae> and the anaconda partitioner makes me want to punch myself in the face
[08:26] <Lathiat> Justin: yeh?
[08:26] <Lathiat> Justin: didnt knwo that
[08:26] <Lathiat> Justin: how do i tell it to?
[08:26] <Lathiat> i want to automate installation of my laptop :)
[08:27] <hunger> fabbione: Any news wrt. my tpm patch for the kernel? Did it change the ABI?
[08:28] <Justin> debconf-get-selections --installer or such
[08:28] <Justin> google: debian-installer preseed
[08:33] <doko> wasabi: eclipse should build-depend on firefox-dev, not mozilla-dev. firefox-dev is in main
[08:33] <doko> wasabi, wasabi_: eclipse should build-depend on firefox-dev, not mozilla-dev. firefox-dev is in main
[08:35] <doko> mdz, wasabi, wasabi: eclipse still has a dependency on lucene, which is in multiverse.
[08:37] <CarlFK> Lathiat https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalNetInstall
[08:38] <Lathiat> CarlFK: thanks
[08:38] <CarlFK> Lathiat - hang on...
[08:38] <CarlFK> I need to rearange some steps to make it simpler
[08:47] <CarlFK> Lathiat - reload
[08:48] <CarlFK> Lathiat - previously I cut/pasted the commands I actualy used
[08:48] <CarlFK> but later realized how to do it better, so I shifted things around
[08:49] <CarlFK> so the changes I just made should work, but the commands were typed up in the editor, not the command promp - so let me know if anything is screwy
[08:50] <Lathiat> cool
[08:50] <CarlFK> it is lots of fun once you get it setup
[08:50] <CarlFK> I did a laptop this morning, 1 hour later something was scrwey
[08:51] <carlos> seb128, around?
[08:51] <CarlFK> installing is so easy I had no problem just installing again
[08:51] <seb128> carlos: pong
[08:51] <carlos> seb128, hi
[08:52] <carlos> I know universe is not yours, but could you take a look at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1206  ?
[08:52] <pitti> elmo: can I please have the libgda b-deps in davis' breezy dchroot?
[08:52] <seb128> carlos: daf is upstream for that?
[08:53] <seb128> pitti: new g-v-m for you
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: oooh, will it fix all bugs?
[08:53] <seb128> pitti: upstream version I mean
[08:53] <carlos> seb128, no, he's not, I think jdub is
[08:53] <seb128> pitti: there is quite some activity about it on #commits from novell guy atm, so I guess it has some changes
[08:53] <seb128> pitti: have fun for your patches :p
[08:53] <pitti> *sigh*
[08:55] <seb128> pitti: new gnomevfs has some hal love too
[08:56] <mae> guys do you think scoop will happen?
[08:57] <seb128> carlos: you could have put the patch with the bug :p
[08:58] <seb128> I'll have to get it before fixing :)
[08:58] <seb128> carlos: I'll fix it 
[08:58] <carlos> seb128, anyway, I think malone does not accepts attachmets (yet)
[08:58] <carlos> seb128, O:-)
[08:58] <carlos> seb128, thank you!
[08:58] <seb128> np
[08:59] <carlos> seb128, I had to move to breezy and it's a bit difficult to work with bazaar + gpg without gnome-gpg caching the passphrase
[09:00] <seb128> carlos: blank passphrase? :p
[09:01] <carlos> seb128, remind me that I should revoke from my key any trust I have in your key
[09:01] <hunger> fabbione: My patch to the tpm module is supposed to be in 2.6.13-rc2 from what I hear.
[09:02] <seb128> carlos: ah ah :)
[09:36] <swarm> for 3rd party module patching issue is this the channel or #ubuntu-kernel?
[10:34] <mae> what is a simple gtk ide.. (perhaps a *little* more advanced than gedit)
[10:34] <mae> or really just editor
[10:34] <mae> i can deal with compiling separately
[10:36] <tseng> mae: you can set some prefences in gedit to make it alot more useful for editing code
[10:38] <mae> man i've been trying to wrestle with eclipse.. but too hard to make it work right with pkg-config .. i dont think i'll ever be able to get past using vim :P
[10:39] <siretart> mae: did you check anjuta?
[10:39] <mae> anjuta is pretty automake-centric
[10:40] <weasel> so, who do I pester if I want a package in hoary/universe updated?
[10:40] <siretart> weasel: #ubuntu-motu
[10:40] <weasel> motu stands for?
[10:40] <siretart> weasel: master/maintainer of the universe
[10:40] <weasel> thanks
[11:27] <mgalvin> i'm running off the colony 2 live cd, its working pretty well so far on my home machine :)
[11:29] <mgalvin> on to some more poking around, l8r
[11:48] <camilotelles> Kamion? there is any news about UE?