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pabloandy@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com cool :P01:25
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tsengpablo: he used ubuntu first01:31
tsengpablo: gotta pay the bills somehow.01:31
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pablotseng: jajajaj01:35
=== pablo is packaging evo 2.3.4 =P
pablowho's the ubuntu evo maintainer?01:39
crimsunseb has done a lot of work with it01:40
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pablook crimsun :)01:40
danielspablo: be patient -- it's 0141 on a sunday night in seb's timezone01:41
pablodaniels heheh ;) ok :P01:42
mdkepablo, evolution should be in breezy already01:42
pablomdke 2.3.4?01:42
pablomdke: my problem with the version of breezy is this: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1218801:43
mdkepablo, the latest version of evolution is inserted into breezy periodically until version freeze. Bugs will get fixed in time01:43
mdkeyeah i've seen that bug01:44
pablooh ok mdke :)01:44
pablothat's an horrible bug ;)01:44
mdkepablo, breezy will have lots of bugs, it is the version for testing. If you want a distro without bugs, you should really use hoary hedgehod01:44
pabloyep, I know that.01:45
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camilotellesmdz: hi there02:03
mdzcamilotelles: hello and goodbye; I'm going to sleep ;-)02:04
camilotellesmdz: see you tomorrow, goodbye02:04
camilotellesand good night02:04
tsengdaniels: omfg you suck02:10
tsengdaniels: X not executable02:10
danielsi didn't change anything02:14
daniels-33 or -34?02:14
tsengthe /etc/X11/X symlink is broken02:14
tseng /usr/bin/X11 is gone02:14
danielsplease dump a full ls -l of everything X-related in the chain at me in /msg02:14
tsengill need to put it back where it was02:15
danielsOH, I see02:15
tsengand install gpm02:15
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danielsright, needs new x-common02:16
tsengthe link is fixed is all02:16
borkdoxanyone knows the deal with openoffice on amd64 udner breezy? are ia32-libs broken right now?02:16
borkdoxi posted that in the quest of finding out whats the deal...02:17
danielstseng: new x-common uploaded, which makes /usr/bin/X11 a symlink to /usr/bin02:20
tsengdaniels: rock on dude, thanks02:20
danielsi had it prepared, just forgot to upload02:20
lamontdaniels: xfixes was tomorrow?02:33
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karthik085Hello, My name is Karthik. I would like to actively contribute to Kubuntu and KDE. What is the process I need to go to become one of the maintainers?06:32
fabbionehi karthik085 06:33
fabbionea good place to start is #ubuntu-motu and #kubuntu-devel06:33
fabbionekarthik085: the first step to become a maintainer is to become a "MOTU"06:34
fabbione(very short version of the story)06:34
karthik085Hey fabbione. I applied to become a MOTU.06:36
fabbioneok did you read all the documentation on how to become one?06:36
fabbionebecause you need to show up during TB/CC meetings and prove yourself as a valid MOTU before you can be one06:36
fabbionei think the best is to ask in -motu how to do so06:37
karthik085I will be attending the one on Tuesday06:37
fabbionei personally don't recall all the details and i don't want to put you in the wrong direction06:37
karthik085Do you know what skills one need to become a maintainer?06:37
fabbioneit depends what your skills are06:38
fabbionethere is always something to do :)06:38
karthik085I am good at programming, especially C++ and Java. Currently, I am learning Ruby. I also designed/developed various projects for my university. Recently, a paper based on my program got accpted in a conference.06:39
fabbionekarthik085: sounds good.. i think you need to find yourself a place where to apply these skills...06:41
fabbionewe don't exactly force people to do something they don't want to :)06:42
fabbioneand talking with the MOTU's is the best you can do imho06:42
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karthik085Ok.. I will talk to MOTU's. Thanks.06:43
fabbionewelcome :)06:43
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pittiGood morning07:08
fabbionehey pitti07:10
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pittiinfinity: ping08:12
infinitypitti : pong08:18
fabbionehey infinity 08:24
infinityYo Fabio.08:24
fabbioneinfinity: what's up?08:25
infinityWorking to get a bunch of upstream version bumps ready in the next 2 days, since I just went back and re-read the release schedule and checked the calendar. :)08:25
\shquestion: the upstreamfreeze is only for main, or is it also for universe? 08:26
infinityAlso, wishing customs would release my laptop and send it to me.08:26
pittielmo: 08:26
pittielmo: please sync pmount from Debian experimental08:26
infinity\sh : Just main.  Universe gets some slack cut, since we don't officially support it anyway.08:26
\shwonderful :)08:27
jdub\sh: syncing stops, but uploading has been fine thus far (without approval)08:27
pitti\sh: right, that's entirely MOTU driven; if they accept a new upstream release 2 days before release, that's fine08:27
infinityFOr some value of "fine"... A little common sense would be nice.08:27
pittiof course08:27
Amaranthsince universe doesn't ship on a CD i don't see why it should freeze at all08:27
\shAmaranth, we need to get some apps stable in the end...and sometimes it's better to have an older stable version, then an unstable new version ,-)08:28
fabbioneWOW.. i think i never managed to hang d-i so badly.. getting the screen to switch to another tty :)08:28
crimsunI think we've hashed this one before and reached a consensus that a stable release really needs to be stable, even for universe.08:28
womblefabbione: I saw a similar problem with a Hoary pre-release08:29
fabbionewomble: nah.. i am messing with it :)08:29
wombleOh, OK.  Might want to get that one fixed before release... <grin>08:29
fabbionewomble: no.. really? :)08:30
ajmitchAmaranth: and that it's trickier to accept uploads to universe while leaving main frozen08:30
\shbut actually I would really like to have some comments on this showstopper...should we put this app into universe as a replacement of the old package, or should we w8 for debian and kick the old one out of the repos?08:30
wombleEver seen Dumb and Dumber?  I'm thinking the "IOU 1 ferrari" scene here08:30
\sh(actually it's not only an app)08:31
infinity\sh : Does anything {build-,}depend on it?08:31
\shinfinity, only the packages generated directly from the source 08:32
infinity\sh : And do your packages seem to build and work fine?08:33
\shinfinity, i tried the last official "stable release" of gnuradio-core (replacement for old gnuradio-0.9) and it didn't compile with gnu c/c++ 3.4 or 4.x08:33
infinity\sh : If so, I see no issues.  Just version your package with -0ubuntu1, so a Debian -1 will be higher, and see about working with the Debian maintainer to converge the packaging/sources at some point in the future.08:33
\shthe latest cvs head is compiling and the debian maintainer was really surprised as well to see it's compiling..(i only test it for i386)08:34
infinity\sh : Debian will be doing the gcc4 transition very (VERY) soon, so the Debian packages will need updating ASAP anyway.08:34
\shinfinity, yeah read the announcement of doko on d-d08:34
Amaranthis the kernel going to get built with gcc 4?08:42
infinityAmaranth : Not for breezy.08:52
\shwell, new xorg and some new eclipse stuff nice08:52
Amaranthok, can we at least get the same version of gcc 3.4 that the kernel was actually built with? :)08:52
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pittiHey dholbach 08:54
\shE: /var/cache/apt/archives/libx11-6_1-0x1,ba1a10000005bp-1336.2.1+cvs.20050615-4_i386.deb:  versuche /usr/lib/X11/XErrorDB zu berschreiben, welches auch in Paket xlibs-data ist08:54
jsgotangcodholbach, morning!08:54
dholbachwhat were those magic symlinks i had to place to get x working again?08:54
dholbachmorning jerome08:55
dholbachmorning martin08:55
crimsunnew x-common should fix that08:55
Lathiatdaniels: bah you broke X again ;p08:55
jsgotangcoyou have to offer some virgins though first08:55
dholbachpoor daniels :/08:56
\shLathiat, force it force it ;) xorg is more maso then anything else ,-)08:56
Lathiatdaniels: /usr/bin/X11 has only a symlink of bin to /usr/bin08:56
crimsunI thought he fixed that in the last upload08:57
Lathiatyeh and broke it in this one :)08:57
infinitydaniels didn't do the last upload.08:57
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Amaranthcrimsun did? :)08:58
Lathiathe did according to my changelog08:58
infinityErr, yes he did.  I'm blind. :)08:58
\shgood morning chmj 09:00
pittiHi chmj09:00
chmjgood morning all 09:00
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dholbachwhere should /usr/bin/X11 point to?09:01
infinityLathiat : The symlink from x-common looks correct to me.09:01
infinitydholbach : ../bin, just as it does.09:01
dholbachi'll take a leaf out of keybuk's book and strace it =)09:02
dholbachand prepare some coffee in the meantime09:02
Lathiatwell, i have /usr/bin/X11/bin pointing at /usr/bin09:03
Lathiatis that right?09:03
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Lathiatjudging by the look of things, /usr/bin/X11 shoudl be -> /usr/bin, to /usr/bin/X11/bin09:05
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torkel'ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X' made it work for me09:05
Lathiati did get an error when upgrading, after using apt-get -f install to get libx11-6 everythign finished up fine09:05
Lathiattorkel: yeh thats hacky tho, ki think /usr/bin/X11 is just wrong09:05
infinityroot@lucifer:~ # ls -l /usr/bin/X1109:05
infinitylrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 6 Jul  4 06:59 /usr/bin/X11 -> ../bin09:05
Lathiatnot that i have any idea why theres a /usr/bin/X11 in the first place09:05
Lathiatinfinity: right, see thats not what i have09:06
infinityLathiat : Do you have the latest x-common and other X friends?09:06
dholbachtorkel: thank you09:06
torkelLathiat: right now I'm more intrested in getting it working :-)09:06
Lathiatwell i should do09:06
Lathiateverythings up to date and ubuntu-desktop is installed so unless something isnt included somewhere09:06
Lathiatx-common is 1.0109:07
=== infinity looks at the x-common source.
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dholbachRE :)09:08
infinityLathiat : Does "apt-get --reinstall install x-common" magically fix it?09:09
infinityLathiat : Oh, wait.  DO you have a DIRECTORY called /usr/bin/X11 with a symlink in it that's "bin -> /usr/bin"?09:10
Lathiatinfinity: yes09:11
infinityHrmph.  Kay, I can see why.09:11
infinityIf you delete that symlink then reinstall x-common, you'll get fixed up.09:11
infinity(you don't have any other files in that directory, do you?)09:11
Amaranthoh, i remember that problem09:11
infinityThe real bug needs to be fixed, though.09:11
Amaranthhacks to fix old X problems cause new X problems!09:11
infinityNot tough.  WOuld have been less hackish if it was done right the first time, though.09:11
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=== infinity thinks it's high time to write a "migrating directories to symlinks and vice versa" mini-HOWTO or something.
infinityIt seems that every time someone reinvents this wheel, they break it in new and interesting ways.09:13
dholbachinfinity: you're so positive about things... i like that :)09:15
infinityOh, there's clearly a silver lining here.09:15
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infinityMainly being that every time this wheel IS reinvented, I see it done in completely different broken ways!09:15
infinity(I broke it about 4 different ways myself just a few months ago(09:16
dholbachbut you can at least find them interesting :)09:16
dholbachmvo: good morning, michael!09:16
pittiHey mvo09:16
mvogood morning to dholbach, pitti and to others!09:18
\shchmj, did u receive my mail?09:22
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dholbachsee you later guys09:28
fabbioneKamion: ping?09:32
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chmj\sh, not yet 09:33
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fabbioneKamion: do i remember right that ppc is the only arch that doesn't have lvm support in parman?09:36
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\shchmj, charles@ubuntu.com, right?09:47
chmjyes got it 09:47
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\shchmj, good :)09:48
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dokoelmo: please sync java-gcj-compat and python-imaging from unstable10:04
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fabbionesabdfl mornign 10:06
Kamionfabbione: it's not partman, it's parted10:06
Kamionfabbione: but yeah, only one of our supported arches anyway10:06
fabbioneKamion: yes.. sorry... i still get confused by the names10:07
fabbioneKamion: do you know about sparc/ia64/hppa?10:07
Kamionnot offhand - but I would imagine they do, the only reason powerpc (actually just powerpc with Mac partition tables) doesn't is that there isn't a standard for recording it in the partition table, and the pseudo-standard we agreed hasn't been implemented in parted yet10:08
Kamionpowerpc with IBM partition tables (e.g. RS/6000s) should be able to manage LVM just fine10:08
Kamionlikewise RAID10:08
fabbioneKamion: ok...10:09
fabbioneright now i am at a good point in parsing the recipe's and take some proper actions to create separate /boot and the LVM envelope10:09
fabbionei am fighting a bit with creating partitions with open_dialog...10:09
Kamionbah, still no working syncage of svn->baz imports10:12
Kamionand as infinity observes we have upstream version freeze in two days, at least if my recollection of breezy release on 12th October is correct10:14
Kamionif it's 19th October we have another week10:14
infinityKamion : Well, the wiki told me it was in 2 days.  Maybe it lied to me.10:16
infinityKamion : I can always hope.10:16
Kamionwhich page?10:16
Kamionoh, I was looking at the wrong wiki, as usual10:18
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pittiHey mdz 10:23
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mdzpitti: morning10:26
sabdflmorning fabbione, all!10:26
pittiHi sabdfl 10:26
fabbionemorning mdz10:26
pittimdz: still remember the sound card hotplug discussion?10:27
mdzpitti: whether to change the default when a new sound device is hotplugged?10:28
mdzfabbione: morning10:28
pittimdz: I have a patch for g-v-m ready for some weeks10:28
pittimdz: I just didn't upload it because it is incredibly hard to tell the audio mixer to display a certain card by default10:28
pittimdz: but that's entirely unrelated to the question whether we do that in g-v-m or in the mixer applet10:29
pittimdz: I just think it is not worth the trouble of temporarily introducing huge modifications to the mixer applet if we want to have an universal event notifier in the future10:29
mdzpitti: so the g-v-m patch detects the change, but can't take the appropriate action for the mixer applet?10:31
pittimdz: well, it can also change the default card, that's no problem10:31
pittimdz: however, we wanted a "configure card..." which calls the mixer 10:31
pittimdz: of course this should show the new card by default, to make any sense10:31
pittimdz: however, that's an entirely different problem, it's just the reason why I didn't yet upload that10:32
mdzpitti: is it something we could bounty upstream for?10:32
mdzto make it easier to tell the mixer to change?10:32
pittimdz: I already talked with upstream10:32
pittimdz: upstream's preferred solution would involve some heavy gconf/gstreamer action10:32
mdzdaniels: still a file overlap between libx11-6 and xlibs-data10:33
pittimdz: however, finally he didn't think a simple command line argument were entirely wrong10:33
dokoseb128: ping10:37
seb128doko: pong10:37
Kamionfabbione: after a fresh install, I get a post-update information item telling me that I've just installed a new version of the Linux kernel10:37
fabbioneKamion: hmmmmm.... yes.. 10:38
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fabbioneKamion: that's a tricky problem to solve10:38
tvoRiddell: hi10:39
fabbioneKamion: because the notification file is installed with the package.. making it part of postinst is an issue...10:39
fabbioneKamion: because a kernel update with an ABI change will be recognized as fresh install10:39
fabbioneand you won't get the notification of such kernel10:39
mdzdoko: you mentioned you had been preparing new oo.o2 packages; what is the blocker?10:39
fabbioneKamion: perhaps we can clean the messages queued for the notification applet at first install?10:40
dokolibxt-java and libxp-java, reviewed by pitti, waiting for universe->main promotion10:40
dokomdz: ^^^10:40
mdzdoko: I didn't get an email about that; did you ask elmo or Kamion?10:41
dokohmm, you are subscribed to the wiki page? anyway, I'll send a notice in the future. uploaded it on Saturday10:42
mdzdoko: done10:43
mdzdoko: does it need to be given back?10:43
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Kamionfabbione: uh, I guess - seems pretty hackish though :(10:45
dokomdz, infinity: yes10:45
=== infinity looks up.
Kamionfabbione: I see what you mean, though, it's problematic10:45
dokomdz: ahh, no, it's auto-tried ... so it should just build.10:45
fabbioneKamion: yes.. and there is no way i can change postinstall dynamically at build time because it's added by kernel-package....10:46
mdzinfinity: oo.o210:46
pittifabbione: I have the same problem with the language pack upgrade notification; writing the file in postinst is the only solution I see10:46
fabbionepitti: i can't write it in postinst.. really..10:47
Kamionpitti: with package names changing, that's tricky for the kernel10:47
Kamionso how do I clear out the notification applet's queue?10:47
infinitydoko : Indeed, OO.o2 is in needs-build on all arches.10:48
fabbioneKamion: i think it's enough you remove the files from the notification dir before executing it10:48
infinitydoko : Do any of its build-deps need some TLC?10:48
fabbioneKamion: since it's a fresh install the notification applet won't even see them10:48
pittiKamion: /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/notification-2.6.12-3-powerpc10:48
dokoinfinity: TLC?10:48
Kamionfabbione: (a) I don't execute the applet, I just start GNOME, (b) that file is shipped in the .deb so I can't remove it10:49
infinitydoko : Tender Loving Care.  Or "effort on my part".10:49
dokoinfinity: no10:49
fabbioneKamion: well yes you can remove it.. it's not a config file ;)10:49
pittifabbione: /etc/kernel/postinst.d10:50
pittifabbione: I use that for linux-hardened-support, works very well10:50
fabbionepitti: ?10:50
pittifabbione: that's a hook dir for kernel postinst's10:51
pittifabbione: you can drop a file in that directory, and it will be executed; you can use that to generate the update notifications10:51
fabbionepitti: and what would be different from installing the file directly?10:52
Kamionfabbione: it's rather painful for me to mark that update-notifier hook as seen10:52
Kamionfabbione: (short of just rming the file, which I won't do)10:52
pittifabbione: you can check whether you are installing from scratch, or upgrading10:52
fabbionepitti: you will hit the same problem as Kamion told you above...10:52
Kamionfabbione: to do that, I have to write into the initial user's home directory; and I can't do that in all cases, because it might be e.g. NFS-mounted10:52
fabbionepitti: with a name change due to ABI change, you won't see the difference between a fresh install and an upgrade10:52
Kamionthe installer avoids stuff that requires it to write into the initial user's home directory for good reason10:53
Kamionfabbione: you can look for /boot/vmlinu* or similar10:53
Kamionfabbione: or I can try to get you some hint that you're running within the initial bootstrap10:53
fabbioneKamion: i am more prone to remove this notification area thingy10:54
Kamionthough that's also relatively hackish ...10:54
fabbioneit's more a problem to do than the problem that it solves10:54
fabbioneand hounetly the kernel maintainer scripts are already complex enough to add extra point of possible failures10:54
mvocould the hooks themself extended to better support your needs somehow?10:57
mvo(sorry for jumping in late)10:57
fabbionemvo: eheh no problem dude :)10:57
Kamionif there were a global way (not touching users' home directories) to mark a hook as seen, that might help?10:57
fabbionemvo: the hook would require a high level of complexity to recognize only what's happening10:58
mvoKamion: that would certainly be doable10:58
fabbioneKamion: would it be so bad for you to just trash that file at first install? imho it's at the same level of hugly hacks as me getting crazy to figure that out from maintainer script hooks10:58
Kamionfabbione: I think it goes over my hack threshold10:59
pittimvo: u-n should check the md5sums of changed files, so that it doesn't display the same notice again10:59
KamionI don't mind globally saying "no notifications on first install", but trashing a specific file for a specific package (even if it is the kernel) is getting pretty grotty10:59
pittiwell, the first alternative would indeed help11:00
mvoKamion: the hook files are not precious, I think I'll add some sort of cleanup for old hook files anyway in the future11:00
pittimvo: right now I wanted to convert the langpack update notice from "ship in deb" to "generate dynamically in postinst" for the same reason11:00
fabbioneKamion: i understand that11:00
mvoKamion: but your point is valid of course11:01
pittimvo: I basically have the same problem: if I install the langpack from scratch, I don't want the note11:01
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mvopitti: not sure about this, the kernel message "please reboot" is always the same, but needs to be displayed nevertheless11:01
Kamionmvo: I think all files shipped in .debs have to be considered precious - I don't want to confuse tools like debsums by going around removing shipped files11:01
pittimvo: maybe a better solution than reinventing the wheel in many postinsts is a "install-update-note" script in u-n?11:02
mvopitti: what would that script do?11:03
pittimvo: maybe "i-u-n <package version> <package version for displaying note> <file>"11:04
pittiit could compare postinst's $2 lt-nl <package version for displaying note>11:04
pittiso it wouldn't be installed if the pkg is installed from scratch ($2 == '')11:05
pittiand wouldn't be installed if it already exists11:05
pittihowever, I didn't think about that thoroughly, I just need that for the langpacks11:05
pittifabbione certainly has different requirements for ABI changes etc.11:05
mvopitti: would it be ok if you could try to make your language-pack script a bit more generic so that it could be envoled into a generic i-u-n script later?11:07
Riddelltvo: hi11:07
tvoyou're my mentor :)11:07
tvoyou received my mail?11:07
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pittimvo: well, I'll implement what I need now, then we can discuss about a generic approach11:07
mvopitti: fair enough, thanks11:08
tvoRiddell: you received my mail?11:09
Amaranthtvo: Can you do me a favor? You don't have to do it now, just for next time you connect.11:10
tvoRiddell: any comments about it?11:10
tvoAmaranth: probably11:10
Amaranthtvo: It helps others figure out who people are if they put their real name in for their user info.11:10
Amaranthright now /whois tvo says 'gaim', I dunno if you can change that with gaim11:11
tvoAmaranth: ah ok, I'll try to figure that out11:11
mdzelmo: is it possible/reasonable to move things from multiverse to universe via teri, or should I ask you instead?11:12
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tvoAmaranth: done, thanks for the info11:14
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Amaranthtvo: Awesome, now I can look up what you're working on. :)11:14
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Riddelltvo: don't see an e-mail from you, what was the subject?11:18
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tvoRiddell: "Kubuntu Summer of Code"11:19
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Riddelltvo: ah of course, havn't read it11:19
RiddellEdinburgh has been fairly hectic this weekend11:19
Riddellnaturally it's not at the top of my TODO list11:19
tvoRiddell: ah ok, just checking, some feedback would be appreciated once you've read it...11:20
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pittiRiddell: btw, I tested the new KDE langpacks; the mo files were installed, but the app didn't even look for them11:21
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pittiRiddell: may it be that kdelibs does not use libc's gettext(), but its own implemenetation?11:21
Riddellpitti: KDE does need the language set11:22
Riddellpitti: do you have an example package I could test?11:22
pittiRiddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ -> language-pack-kde-de-base_20050702_all.deb language-pack-kde-de_20050702_all.deb   11:23
pittiRiddell: I tried with "kenolaba"11:23
pittiRiddell: I straced it, and it does not look in /usr/share/locale-langpacks, as libc does11:24
pittiRiddell: so I assume KDE apps use a kdelibs or whatever implementation?11:24
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=== icaro hi all
pittiHi icaro11:27
icarohi pitti 11:27
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sivangpitti: Hi Martin, 'sup?11:28
pittiHi sivang11:28
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dokomdz, Kamion, elmo: please promote libdb4.2-java-dev to main as well, just a split from libdb4.2-java11:35
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mdzdoko: I already had11:40
mdzdoko: python2.4-numarray now depends on some atlas3 packages11:40
mdzatlas3 is that massive optimized math library, right?11:41
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mdzthe packaging has seemed questionable to me11:41
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dokomdz: very strange, libdb4.2-java-dev and libdb4.2-java are missing in the archive now. the buildd cannot find the package either.11:46
mdzdoko: I moved them into main at the same time as libxt-java and libxp-java11:46
mdzthey were just new binaries from a source package in main11:47
mdzlibdb4.2-java-dev | 4.2.52-19ubuntu2 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc11:47
mdzlibdb4.2-java | 4.2.52-19ubuntu2 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc11:47
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dokomdz: yep. I'm waiting for a reply from the Debian maintainer. at least on our release architectures they should be preferred over the blas and refblas packages.11:48
dokomdz: ok, after the last Packages update, it can be found again.11:49
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mdzdoko: I also moved boost, since it was required by openoffice and pitti reviewed it12:09
mvoKamion: I'll upload a new update-notifier with support for a global "seen" file in /etc/update-notifier/hooks_seen. the format is "hookfile-name mtime was-run" (e.g. "kernel `date +%s` 0")12:10
pittimvo: how does that help?12:10
mdzmvo: how does the current mechanism work, to know when the message has already been seen?12:11
dokomdz: thanks12:11
mvopitti: after a fresh install kamion can add a entry to this file and the kernel hook will not be displayed12:11
mvomdz: it save a seen-file (same format) in the users homedir (in .update-notifier/hooks_seen)12:12
seb128elmo: ping?12:12
pittihm, still looks h4ck1sh12:12
mvopitti: yes :/12:12
=== fabbione -> food
mdzseb128: left alt+tab works as normal, but right alt+tab acts funny (when I release right alt, the selector stays up, and focus never changes).  do you know what might cause that?12:14
Kamionmvo: ok, I guess the only problem after that is that I have to work out the hookfile-name, but that should be straightforward12:14
Kamionfind /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/ -type f | sed "s/\$/$(date +%s) 0/"12:16
Kamionor similar12:16
mvoyes, that should work12:16
Kamionwell, with an extra space and with -printf '%P\n'12:16
mdzinfinity: what's happening with the infrastructure bits of SoundEvents?12:17
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seb128mdz: nop, seems to be a xorg/xkb issue12:22
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Kamionmvo: what does the was-run bit do?12:25
Kamionmvo: I've committed that to base-config, anyway12:25
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mvoKamion: it tells if the script that may be embedded into the hook was run12:26
seb128mvo: libgtk2-perl issue is known upstream and by the Debian maintainer, should be fixed with next upstream, you can comment stuff on debian/rules for the moment as workaround if you want12:26
Kamionmvo: ok, thanks12:26
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | If you have unexpectedly lost editbugs privileges, talk to mdz/ogra/kiko | Colony CD 2 released
mvoseb128: disable the tests for now you mean? 12:28
seb128mvo: yep12:28
seb128I was waiting on new version/Debian version12:28
Riddellpitti: I think your kde-language packs should include the entry.desktop, flag.png and charset files used by KDE12:29
Riddellpitti: but also if you do kde-config --path locale it comes out with /home/jr/.kde/share/locale/:/usr/share/locale/12:30
pittihm? desktop files in langpacks?12:30
Riddellpitti: so I need to work out how to add /usr/share/locale-langpack to that path12:30
pittiRiddell: so /usr/share/locale-langpack needs to be added to that path?12:30
pittiok 12:30
pittiRiddell: can't this rather just use libc's gettext?12:31
Riddellpitti: seems not, I think for historical reasons12:32
Riddellhopefully KDE 4 will use gettext properly but I think back when this was written gettext didn't support everything needed12:32
mdzRiddell: did we reach a resolution on whether we need to upload another gettext package for kde?12:33
Riddellmdz: nope, carlos was going to look into it after rosetta 1.0, which was going to be start of july as I mind12:33
mdzRiddell: is it blocking any of your work?12:33
Riddellmdz: it's blocking KDE support in rosetta.  I have plenty of other things to get on with12:34
mdzseb128: is there a newer (not yet uploaded) version of gst-plugins0.8 which build-deps on libmpcdec?12:36
mdzthe version in breezy doesn't seem to require it12:36
seb128mdz: yep, on my list for today, why?12:36
mdzseb128: ah, ok12:36
mdzseb128: because it has a main inclusion report12:36
seb128mdz: was waiting on the approval before uploading12:36
Riddellpitti: the entry.desktop is needed to select the language through KDE Control Centre, works fine if you export LANG=foo but that's not very user friendly12:36
pittiRiddell: hm, but these desktop files should already be shipped somewhere, right?12:37
Riddellpitti: they're in kde-i18n-xx12:37
infinitymdz : Now that we actually have people submitting sounds, I'll upload the packagy bits in the next couple of days.12:40
mdzfabbione: have you been in contact with the XenIntegration mentee?12:41
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mdkesmurfix, around?12:42
fabbionemdz: yes.. i did send out pings to all the guys and received acknoledge from all of them.12:43
mdzfabbione: ok, please update the BreezyGoals entry accordingly12:43
fabbionemdz: they will feed me with weekly status reports.12:43
mdzlist the student as the responsible person and mark it as a google project12:44
mdz(there are examples already on the page)12:44
Kamionhmm, the firefox logo in gnome-icon-theme needs to be fixed I think12:44
fabbionemdz: will do12:44
mdzfabbione: thanks12:44
fabbioneno problem12:44
Kamionwhy is mozilla-firefox.png shipped by about n different packages anyway?12:44
mdzinfinity: is there something about the changes which makes them unsuitable until we have sounds?12:45
seb128Kamion: why?12:45
mdzI expect the process of gathering and refining the sounds will take some time yet12:45
seb128Kamion: what's wrong with the icon theme?12:45
Kamionseb128: it's the Mozilla foundation logo rather than the de-branded globe12:46
seb128they can't ship it?12:47
mdzdoko: regarding OpenOfficeLocalisation, the status says it depends on oo.o vs. oo.o2; I think we are essentially committed to v2 at this point12:47
mdzdoko: what remains to be done?12:47
Kamionseb128: the one in gnome-icon-theme is trademarked according to mozilla-firefox 0.8-6 changelog12:47
Kamionand there seem to have been some problems with that12:47
seb128Kamion: hum, should I bug GNOME upstreams?12:48
seb128any pointer for them?12:48
Kamionbest check with thom, maybe12:48
KamionI think he knows the history12:48
Riddellpitti: how is that locale-langpack directory added to gettext programmes locale path?12:48
pittiRiddell: a libc6 patch12:48
smurfixmdke: yo12:49
pittiRiddell: I proposed to upstream to generalize that facility, but it was rejected12:49
Riddellpitti: right.  and what's the reason for using locale-langpack over just installing to locale?12:49
pittiRiddell: to avoid file conflicts with locally installed debs12:49
mdkesmurfix, yo indeed. thanks for the email, we've been looking at smf, can you tell me which locoteams use it so we can see what it looks like in practice?12:49
smurfixmdke: -fi and -ru12:50
mdzpitti: I was thinking yesterday about whether we could avoid stripping locales from .debs12:50
mdkesmurfix, thanks12:51
mdzpitti: and do a delta from upstream translations->current translations instead of last-langpack->current translations12:51
mdkesmurfix, -fi looks quite nice12:51
mdzpitti: depending on the activity level in rosetta and how quickly upstream integrates translations, it could be similar size12:51
mdzand would simplify things12:51
seb128and would be better for users12:52
pittihm, worth thinking about that12:52
seb128atm if a package change the translation domain, the app goes to 0% translated 12:52
pittiwell, that doesn't happen in stable releases12:52
seb128no, but it happens with unstable12:53
seb128and translators need to have correct translations to work to translate the next version12:53
seb128hum, lot of "translat" on the same sentence :p12:54
pittimdz: I think that would mean a bigger sum of package sizes (mo files in deb + delta langpacks), so we probably need to drop more langpacks from CD12:55
mdzpitti: you think?  it seems non-obvious to me12:55
pittimdz: i. e. if somebody in Rosetta fixes just one string, we would ship the same mo file twice12:55
mdzpitti: would it be a lot of work to calculate it?12:55
pittimdz: well, calculating it requires the percentage of touched translations12:56
fabbioneYES YES YES!!!!12:56
pittimdz: we currently can't ship a "diff mo", just complete mo files12:56
fabbioneKamion: i just got the first automatically generated /boot out of p-a-l :D12:56
mdzpitti: right12:56
pittimdz: so in the worst case the amount of shipped mo files doubles12:57
mdzbut I think the percentage is relatively small at this point, right?12:57
pittimdz: right now, yes12:57
mdzand I expect that in mature projects it would stabilize12:57
pittimdz: but only because I don't yet pull translations from Rosetta12:57
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mdze.g., gnome will integrate new translations very quickly12:57
pittimdz: right now I generate everything completely on my own from the stripped tarballs12:57
mdzwhen a new language is translated, it won't be upstream, and we still ship only one copy12:58
mdzpitti: right, but that should change in...3 days?12:58
pittithe exceptions are Ubuntu specific strings12:58
infinitymdz : Well, one of the major changes will involve pointing apps at what we would consider to be "sub-optimal" sounds, with the expectation that we'll get those files replaced with something more appriopriate in ubuntu-sounds before we ship.12:58
pittibut there aren't so many12:58
fabbionemdz: wiki updated12:58
infinitymdz : Now that I'm fairly confident the latter will happen, I'm happy to go ahead with the former, to make sure it's all in place.12:58
mdzfabbione: thanks12:59
pittimdz: yes, if it really changes in 3 days, then I have actual numbers for estimating the overhead12:59
highvoltageWhat is Oliver's nick? Ogra?12:59
pittihighvoltage: yes12:59
highvoltagepitti: do you perhaps have an idea when he'll be back home?01:00
pittihighvoltage: no, sorry01:00
pittiwell, next week at latest01:00
pittimdz: I calculate the diff when I get the first Rosetta updates, then we can evaluate that again. okay for you?01:00
mdzpitti: sounds good01:01
pittimdz: just let me tell you that the latest Hoary tarball I got imported some 200 MB worth of new po files (uncompressed)01:01
mdzhighvoltage: I would expect that he would be home already01:01
highvoltagemdz: okay. is he normally on irc most of the time, or not?01:02
mdzhighvoltage: yes01:02
mdzhis flight back was yesterday at about 2000 I think01:02
highvoltagemdz: thanks, i'll just come check a bit later.01:02
pittimdz: so maybe I shall wait for another 3 days with uploading the split set of langpacks?01:06
dokomdz: OO.o2 translation: I'm sending an update this afternoon, will CC you and update the wiki01:07
mdzseb128: why is it that the X server is started by gdm without -br now?01:08
Kamionfabbione: cool :)01:08
mdzpitti: why, is the split affected by the rosetta exports?01:09
pittimdz: no, but say we only upload diff packs, then we might not need the split any more01:10
mdzpitti: good point01:11
seb128mdz: I've dropped the change while switching the package to CDBS, I'll fix that with next upload01:11
seb128mdz: thanks for noticing01:11
seb128pitti: I'll do a gst-plugins0.8 upload, what audiosink do you want as default?01:16
pittiseb128: I think it should be esd for now01:16
pittithat'll work with both polypaudio and esd01:16
pittiseb128: does the polypaudio sink work for you now?01:17
seb128I've not built the new version yet01:17
seb128I'll let you know when I try01:17
mdzseb128: pitti approved libmpcdec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibmpcdec), so feel free to upload and I will process the promotion01:17
seb128mdz: I've doing the sync with Debian atm, will upload soon01:18
mdkesmurfix, i've noticed there is something at ubuntu-it.org already, is that your server01:19
\shstrike...gnuradio-core actual cvs is compiled on all archs01:20
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smurfixmdke: it's my server, but not the default page that *should* be there :-/01:30
smurfixI'll fix that01:30
mdkesmurfix, no biggie, the other thing I noticed is that there are three directories in the irclogs directory, i don't know if there is a difference between them?01:30
smurfixmdke: No, they're symlinks01:31
smurfixI've added a -FollowSymlinks to the .htaccess file there, but it does't take for some reason01:32
pittiseb128: hell, that Jeffrey Stedfast guy rewrote half of g-v-m, and still declares that as a microrelease01:36
seb128pitti: that's a unstable serie01:37
pittiseb128: in any case he did some really nice work01:37
seb128cool :)01:37
pittiseb128: it seems to be maintained again01:37
seb128pitti: GNOME change the minor only between tarballs, no consideration on much code has changed01:38
pittisjoerd: here?01:41
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seb128is there any Ubuntu ftpmaster around? :)01:55
pittiwell, this set only contains elmo :-)01:56
seb128I've a evolution-data-server to upload with 2 new binary packages, can these be directed to main when the package is accepted?01:56
seb128pitti: :(01:56
seb128pitti: I'm trying to ping him to get a glib2.0 sync from Debian for 3 days now (k, I should not work during weekends) 01:56
=== seb128 consider doing an upload to Ubuntu instead of the sync
pittiseb128: that should indeed work01:57
seb128jdub: what are you pimping and where?01:57
pittidoes anybody know whether a sync is any more than just "upload the package from Debian to Ubuntu"?01:57
seb128pitti: the issue is that you can't upload the Debian version to ubuntu, you need to update the changelog and then have to sync for next upload01:58
seb128which is not optimal01:58
pittiseb128: ah, right01:58
pittiseb128: so upload -0ubunt1 :-)01:59
pittithat should be autosynced over on the next occation01:59
seb128I want a sync01:59
seb128and I want e-d-s accepted to new break evo01:59
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mdkeah good02:01
Kamionseb128: I can do the e-d-s -> main thing02:01
Kamionseb128: I don't know the runes for doing syncs, though02:01
seb128Kamion: can you also accept NEW packages?02:01
seb128k, I'll do my e-d-s upload so :)02:02
seb128libexchange-storage1.2-0 libexchange-storage1.2-dev are the new binaries02:02
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\shseb128, will it solve the add account evo crash bug? your new upload? :)02:42
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=== fabbione kicks harddisks metadata!
zulraid went kablooie again?02:44
fabbionezul: no... thanks god no...02:45
fabbionepvscan was reporting a partition as part of an VG02:45
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fabbionewhen it wasn't02:45
fabbionedd is your friend :)02:45
fabbionewhen you need to clean partitions metadata :)02:46
fabbionei couldn't really understand how my 20GB harddisk all of sudden reported 37G :P02:46
seb128\sh: nop, downgrading libglib2.0-0 fixes that02:48
seb128Kamion, mdz: can you move system-tools-backends-dev to main to fix gnome-applets build?02:48
\shseb128, k...02:49
Kamionsystem-tools-backends-dev | 1.2.0-4ubuntu1 |        breezy | all02:49
mdzseb128: I already did02:49
Kamionseb128: it's already there02:49
mdza couple of hours ago02:49
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mdzseb128: ping infinity if it needs attention02:50
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seb128Kamion, mdz: oh, right, that has just changed, thanks02:53
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{Seb}i've just downloaded colony 2 and it is looking good02:56
{Seb}but after apt-get upgrade, i can't login02:56
pitti{Seb}: does the gnome startup hang?02:56
pitti{Seb}: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1227602:56
{Seb}only on my laptop though02:56
{Seb}so if i install libesd0, it shoudl solve it?02:58
pittieither that, or install polypaudio02:58
pitti(and p-alsa)02:58
{Seb}what does polypaudio do?02:58
pittiit's a much better esd 02:59
pittihowever, still a bit unstable02:59
pittibut testing is highly appreciated02:59
{Seb}will it become default in breezy>02:59
pittithat depends on whether it is stable enough02:59
{Seb}esd seems to cause a lot of problems02:59
{Seb}what would you recommend? libesd0 or polypaudio?03:00
pittiI'd recommend to try polypaudio and tell me about any crash you experience :-)03:00
pittiit runs stable on my laptop for many days now, though03:01
{Seb}are you by any chance the package maintainer?03:01
pittithe current one in Ubuntu03:01
{Seb}but my desktop (Audigy 2) works fine so i'll leave it03:01
pittiI'm the dude who should sanizite the audio infrastructure03:01
pittisanitize, even03:01
{Seb}will the next esd upload sort out the problem btw?03:02
pittiwell, neither seb128 nor me could identify the real culprit by now03:02
pittiprobably a gtk bug03:02
{Seb}it only seems to be with some cards though03:02
pittiseriously, could be a bug in a new gnome library wrt. sound event handling03:02
{Seb}ah, you are Martin Pitt from the Bug report ;-)03:03
pittiyes :-)03:03
{Seb}just jotting down03:04
{Seb}i need to install polypaudio03:04
{Seb}and will this remove the nasty stuf03:04
pittiyes, it replaces esound03:04
{Seb}thanks pitti03:04
pittino worries :)03:04
{Seb}going to try it out03:04
{Seb}i will report back within the hour!03:05
pittiseb128: btw, any new idea about a sound events gnome lib?03:05
seb128pitti: libgnome a some sound stuff03:05
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mdzfabbione: do you know anything about the tpm_nsc module?03:17
mdzfabbione: it's loaded automatically by hotplug on the craptop, and when it is loaded, it breaks networking03:20
mdzif I blacklist it, it then tries tpm_atmel, which also breaks networking03:20
mdzif I blacklist all tpm*, it works OK03:20
fabbionemdz: all i know it's a driver to manage some crypto stuff in hardware03:23
fabbionemdz: there is a patch in bugzilla that seems to fix some of the issues, backported from that upstream03:23
fabbionemdz: it won't make 3.303:26
fabbione(that i am about to upload)03:26
fabbionebecause the patch is quite intrusive and i need to check what's going on upstream03:26
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hungermdz: Could you try the patch in bugzilla for tpm?03:28
hungermdz: That makes the module autodetect the proper chip for me.03:29
mdzhunger: url?03:29
mdzI may not have time to build a module to test, but I'll grab the patch in case I do03:29
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hungermdz: search for tpm... that should get it for you.03:32
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hungermdz: It worked for me... I asked fabbione to try to include it in the ubuntu kernel. Not sure what he will do about it (the patch does change the ABI of that module).03:35
tsengmdz: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1206503:36
fabbionehunger: as i explained to you i need to test it. i have an upload to do before that patch03:38
hungerfabbione: I did not mean to criticise... I hope that didn't come across as such! I was mearly trying to say that I do not know whether you can include it or not.03:39
fabbionehunger: not at all... i was explaining on what i was workign and for when it's scheduled03:40
hungerfabbione: By the way: AFAICT the patch is part of the 2.6.16-rc2 set.03:40
hungerfabbione: s/2.6.16/2.6.13/03:41
fabbionehunger: even better :)03:41
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{Seb}seb128: sorry to ask you again but after installing colony 2, i can't add an evolution account and you said to downgrade a package. What was it?03:45
seb128{Seb}: libglib2.0-003:45
{Seb}seb128: thanks03:45
mdzseb128: libmpcdec promoted03:46
seb128mdz: thanks03:46
mdzfabbione: so the SoC guy has not started work on Xen yet?03:47
mdzfabbione: (you left it as Pending rather than WIP)03:47
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fabbionemdz: he didn't send me any status update yet.. so for me it is still pending03:47
fabbionemdz: take into account i joined the loop later, because my email address was wrong in the first emails communications and i got them not from the beginning03:48
mdkethe hoary installer will resize ntfs won't it?03:48
Kamionshould do, yes03:50
mdkeKamion, ok thanks, is there a caveat?03:51
{Seb}seb128: that works thanks but only temp. 03:51
{Seb}seb128: i can't leave it there :-(03:51
{Seb}seb128: loads of deps. are broken when installing libglib 2.6.3-103:52
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seb128{Seb}: you can force the install time to make the account and apt-get -f install than03:54
{Seb}seb128: i have got it forced installed and made my Evolution mail account but I now need to remove 2.6.3-1 because everything in GNOME (from eog to gstreamer) seems to depend on 2.7.003:58
seb128{Seb}: upgrade to 2.7.0 again03:58
fabbioneKamion: i think for tomorrow we will get the first install on P-A-L :)04:01
fabbioneKamion: now i have everything i need ;)04:01
fabbioneKamion: /boot and the vg container are created automatically :)04:01
fabbioneKamion: recipe parsing is the rock :=)04:01
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fabbionei might be able to do it right now ;)04:06
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melodiehello everybody :)04:10
melodieI'm coming for a question about Backports becoming official repository04:11
melodieI read several web pages about that04:11
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melodieand this one particularly:04:12
melodieI didn't find yet an info about authentification key. Does someone know if one is ready or will be ready soon ?04:13
mdkehmm that page still shows the agenda for the meeting04:13
mdzmelodie: when the official repository is in place, it will be signed with the usual key04:13
mdkei don't know if there was a meeting summary published04:13
mdzI posted a followup to ubuntu-devel at one point04:14
mdznot a summary as such...though I vaguely recall someone offering to summarize04:14
mdkeyes one of the forum admins did04:14
mdzperhaps the summary was posted to the forums :-/04:14
melodiemdz: do someone know when the repository will be ready ?04:15
melodieI didn't find more info on the Backports forum04:15
melodiethe most recent message I found:04:15
mdzmelodie: soon04:17
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mdzthe work is in progress04:17
melodiemdz: does someone know precisely when or too early to say ?04:17
mdkelooks like maybe the report was intended to go on the wiki page04:17
Keybukdid anybody else notice that Ubuntu is now #1 on DW 12 months?04:18
mdkeyeah there was a post to the ML04:18
mdketotally cool04:19
mdzKeybuk: sounder noticed04:19
melodieKeybud: sorry, what is 'DW 12 months' ? :)04:19
mdzmelodie: there will be an announcement when it is finished04:19
Keybukkinda cool that it wasn't even public twelve months ago :)04:19
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mdkemelodie, DW = distrowatch04:20
mdkeits a website04:20
melodieok I know distrowatch :)04:20
melodieI think Ubuntu can become a major distribution04:20
melodiealthough it is still young04:21
mdzmdetect on the craptop takes ages for some reason04:21
melodiebut it is maybe the one distributions that benefits of the best organisation and communication methods :o04:22
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melodieabout the officiallisation of Backports, anyhow we are sure it's going to be done aren't we ?04:23
ivoksubuntu will be de facto standard :)04:23
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ivoksi have found backports very bad (depending on libs that aren't in ubuntu; debian's version of libc), so i did some backporting my self...04:24
Kamionmdke: sometimes has problems with unclean filesystems, otherwise seems ok04:24
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melodieBackports hold many interesting packages, it's a good new that they join the official componants04:27
melodiethen the dependency problems are going to be checked... :)04:27
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mdzmelodie: as I already said, the work is in progress.  so, yes, it is going to happen.04:42
fabbionecya tomorrow guys04:43
=== fabbione &
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ivokshttp://akaimbatman.blogspot.com/2005/06/linux-desktop-distribution-of-future_15.html - not a bad read04:50
ivoksif anyone interested...04:50
Treenaksabout what?04:50
ivoksfew toughts by a guy who admiers OSX :)04:51
Treenaksivoks: is that a gentoo dude? with the "a new --prefix for EVERY program" ?04:53
ivoksyeah :))04:53
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mdzdaniels: gah, when you changed the name of autodetect_keyboard, you also changed the semantics04:55
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mdzdaniels: and in a way that I can't override04:56
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mjg59mdz: Hi05:02
mjg59mdz: I'll try to get that draft done today05:02
mdzmjg59: thanks.  daf said you may come down to london on wednesday?05:03
mjg59mdz: Yeah, it's a possibility. If not then Thursday.05:03
mjg59Thursday may actually work out easier, but do you have any preferences?05:04
mdzmjg59: wednesday is preferable, since thursday is my last day here05:05
mdz(leaving midday friday)05:05
mjg59Ok, sure05:05
mjg59I'll need to leave for the evening, but should be able to get a few hours done05:05
mdzKamion: so we need to straighten out xorg's autodetect_keyboard05:05
mdzwhat we want is for the default on new installs to be true, the default on upgrades to be false, and for preseed-for-reconfigure to work05:05
mdzKamion: we also presumably want preseed-for-new-install to work05:06
mdzI assume what this means is checking the 'seen' flag on new installs05:07
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Kamiontypically one ends up setting the seen flag to false after asking the question rather than before05:08
doko_elmo: please sync java-gcj-compat and python-imaging05:10
mvoAndyFitz: do you have a idea for #12223 (better icon for update notification messages)?05:11
seb128pitti: is docbook2x on your list? it's a build-depends for gnome-doc-utils05:12
pittiyes, it's in the queue05:12
pittihowever, still busy with g-v-m05:12
seb128should I make a wiki page for it or something?05:12
pittiif you want to, that'd be great05:12
seb128pitti: k, I'll05:12
pittievaluate debian and upstream bugs, look for the security history (although that shouldn't be an issue), review packages05:13
pittiit's a particularly uncritical program, so that should be fine05:13
seb128pitti: I'll base it on the libmpcdec page you made05:13
pittisorry, EFOCUS05:24
seb128pitti: EWINDOW05:24
seb128bah :p05:24
pittiyes, bloody touchpad...05:25
pittifabbione: from your kernel changelogs: "monotith: targets" -> monotits? that sounds scary :-)05:27
mdzseb128: there's a page which explains the review process05:27
mdzseb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements05:28
seb128mdz: yep, I've just read it, thanks05:28
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melodieI thank mdz and mdke for the informations, before quitting :)05:37
melodiegood end afternoon as see you... 05:37
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pittiseb128: new g-v-m is indeed a nice piece of work, I could drop a lot of patches05:42
pittiseb128: I'll send the remaining ones to that guy, he seems to be pretty active05:43
seb128pitti: cool05:43
seb128pitti: that's a novell guy, they seem to have good motivation to work on the desktop05:43
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danielsmdz: how did the semantics change?05:46
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danielsmdz: ah, just seen the bug mail now05:52
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mdzseb128: what's happening with LaunchpadIntegration?05:53
mdzthe last time we spoke about it, I think you were still deciding on the method to implement the menu extensions.  we need to get started on the implementation quite soon05:54
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danielsmdz: found and fixed the issue05:55
mdzdaniels: covers all the cases in the bug?05:56
mdzit seems like whenever we fix one of these, we forget about another05:56
mdzthat's why I tried to lay them all out05:56
danielsmdz: as far as I can tell, it does, yes.  i think the issue was just that we were trying to be way too clever on reconfigure, so I nuked that stanza.  will double-check it in the morning.05:57
mdzdaniels: how do we arrange for it to be true on fresh installs?05:57
mdzsince the template default is false05:58
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\shcan someone sync the latest python-xmpp from debian, please?06:02
Kamion\sh: ask elmo06:03
\shi would push the upload by myself, but it's in main :(06:03
Kamionand then we'd complain at you, anyway :P06:04
{Seb}pitti: i installed polypaudio and polypaudio-alsa and now i get a gnome desktop and sound!06:04
{Seb}pitti: never had sound working before06:04
pitti{Seb}: yay06:04
\shKamion, *g* sometimes someone has to make a choice, between complaining or running software ,-)06:04
danielsmdz: use auto_answer for it; it'll not be seen in that case06:05
Kamion\sh: all the same, please follow the standard procedures06:06
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seb128mdz: most of apps use gtkuimanager, we can start patch apps for stuff using something else. jamesh said he'll give a shot on gtk to determine how easy that would be to change here ... I've that on my todo list for this week06:07
\shKamion, that's why I'm asking :) 06:07
{Seb}pitti: the log in sound doesn't play though06:08
mdzseb128: ok, please make it your top priority, thanks06:08
pitti{Seb}: right, that's a known bug06:08
Kamion\sh: the standard procedure is to ask elmo06:08
{Seb}pitti: any other known bugs?06:08
pitti{Seb}: not to me, apart from the broken sound events you mentioned06:09
\shelmo: please sync the latest python-xmpp from debian :)06:09
=== \sh will also provide a debdiff for python2.4 compile ;)
{Seb}just wondering, is there any chance of the ubuntu logo becoming the gnome menu icon in breezy?06:11
pittiseb128: funny, docbook2x includes simple-patchsys.mk but still does inline patching (not a single file in debian/patches)06:13
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seb128pitti: lazy maintainers :p06:14
{Seb}also, can i put in a request for a newer gmime?06:14
{Seb}it is currently at 2.1.13 in Ubuntu and the latest version is 2.1.1506:15
{Seb}next version of beagle requires 2.1.1506:15
tsengwhen there is a "next version" of beagle i will update things06:15
{Seb}thanks tseng06:15
seb128{Seb}: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10121 for the menu logo06:15
pittiseb128: thanks for the wiki page, I approved it06:16
{Seb}tseng: can i take back what i said before06:16
seb128pitti: thank you :)06:16
tseng{Seb}: i dont know what you said before.06:16
{Seb}tseng: about monodevelop06:16
tseng{Seb}: sure..06:16
{Seb}tseng: been working through my mono books and in SUSE, MonoDevelop crashes 5 times06:17
{Seb}tseng: on breezy, none!06:17
seb128bah, when you have uptodate version people start asking before new versions to know if they are going to be packaged ....06:17
pittiseb128: COTF06:18
seb128pitti: what? :)06:18
pittiCrack Of The Future06:18
pittithe next step after COTD (-day)06:18
seb128ah ah06:18
pittiseb128: bah, I'm reading ubuntu-bugs for a while now (just the new ones), it really must suck to be you :-(06:23
seb128pitti: how long is your while? :)06:24
pittiseb128: hm, maybe 4 weeks, don't know exactly any more06:25
seb128oh, k, enough to get a picture06:25
seb128you are welcome to subscribe to desktop-bugs list if you want :p06:25
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pittiseb128: but isn't that just a subset of u-bugs?06:28
seb128that's if you want to follow desktop bugs without reading the whole u-b flood06:29
mdzKamion: can you think of a robust way for me to determine the PID of the sshd child which is serving my connection?06:29
mdzKamion: if not, would it be reasonable to add an environment variable for that?06:29
pittiseb128: oh, I just see the new ones, assign the ones to me that fall in my field, and CC to interesting ones06:29
Lathiatmdz: $SSH_PTY06:29
pittiseb128: works better for me than even more mail06:29
Lathiaterr, $SSH_TTY, rather06:29
mdzLathiat: how can I map that to the PID?06:30
Lathiatmdz: with grepping of ps or looking through /proc06:30
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Lathiati guess the other way would be some way of stepping up parent processes06:31
Lathiatnfi how to do that06:31
mdzhmm, I thought the child process was started in its own session, but perhaps now06:33
mdzlooks doable, but an awful mess of a shell one-liner is required in order to do it as an ssh remote command06:36
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Kamionmdz: what for?06:42
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infinitymdz : Uhh, 'ssh host "echo $PPID"' seems to work for me... Unless you want one process up from that.06:46
infinity(make that 'echo $PPID', even)06:46
Kamionssh host 'echo $PPID' is pretty pointless though, seeing as the process in question will immediately go away06:48
mdzKamion: LTSP06:48
Kamionmdz: expand?06:48
mdzstand by06:48
Kamionmdz: if I want a new environment variable, I'd want to propose that to upstream, and they'd want a reason06:48
mdzJun 17 14:02:12 <mdz>   seb128: right, this isn't a problem with gdm logins because it resets the X server06:49
mdzJun 17 14:02:30 <mdz>   I can't reset the X server because I can't tell when the session has ended06:49
mdzJun 17 14:02:36 <mdz>   because these processes cause ssh to keep running06:49
mdzJun 17 14:03:05 <mdz>   I run ssh, wait for it to exit, and then reset the server06:49
mdzJun 17 14:03:13 <mdz>   gdm runs gnome-session, waits for it to exit, and then resets06:49
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mdzJun 17 14:03:14 <seb128>        right06:49
mdzJun 17 14:03:29 <mdz>   gnome-session exits when it exits, but ssh doesn't exit06:49
mdzuntil all connections are closed06:49
mdzKamion: I need to shut down the connection when the command exits, rather than when the X connections close06:49
Kamionyou could use the master/slave stuff and then do -O exit06:51
mdzmaster/slave stuff?06:51
Kamion     -M      Places the ssh client into master mode for connection06:51
Kamion             sharing.  Refer to the description of ControlMaster in06:51
Kamion             ssh_config(5) for details.06:51
mdzI don't think that will do what I want, though06:52
Kamionthe actual connection sharing stuff is unnecessary here, but you can use it to provide you with a mechanism to control a running client06:52
mdzthat would only let me control the running client from the local end of the connection, no?06:52
mdzI could just as easily kill it there, but I can't reliably know when to do that06:53
mdzwhich is why I set about looking for a way to do it on the remote end06:53
Kamionoh, I see06:53
mdzkill -1 $PPID isn't all that evil06:54
mdzI didn't think ssh started a shell by default for the command06:54
Kamionbut doesn't the remote end already know when the command has exited?06:54
Kamionfor example the command could write a line to a FIFO when it's done06:54
Kamionoh, never mind me06:55
mdzI think ssh host <command>'; kill -1 $PPID' will do the trick, testing06:55
Kamionwould it be good enough to be able to tell ssh not to wait for forwarded connections to close?06:56
mdzwell, yes06:56
mdzthat's what I really want06:56
Kamion(which is a more generic long-standing wishlist)06:56
mdzthat seemed like a harder battle to fight06:56
wasabi_Eclipse ---> Universe? :)06:56
mdzJul 04 02:12:26 mdz     elmo: is it possible/reasonable to move things from multiverse to universe via teri, or should I ask you instead?06:58
Kamionhttp://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52 is kind of related06:59
Kamion(other scary things WRT exiting early06:59
Kamionnot the same thing though, but would need to be considered06:59
mdzhmm, doesn't seem to work reliably for some reason07:00
mdzmaybe there is some race condition in the signal handling07:00
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Kamionit might be more reliable to kill all the X clients on that display07:01
mdzit would be more reliable to simply reset the server07:01
mdzwhich drops all their connections07:01
mdzbut this probably requires writing an additional C program and installing it on the server side07:02
=== Kamion -> dinner
mdzwhich, as it happens, is arch: all at the moment07:02
=== mdz discovers python-xlib
Kamionyou could just write random data down the X connection until the server crashes07:03
=== Kamion runs from daniels
hungerKamion: Yes.... and send a copy of the random data to daniel, so that he can fix the bug it triggered. I'm sure he would be delighted to get mailed lots of random data:-)07:05
elmomdz: yes, it's fine07:06
elmoteri's not tied to any specific component, the only problems she has are the "can't overwrite existent symlink" stuff you've run into once or twice before07:07
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mdzelmo: thanks07:16
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mxpxpodseb128: ping07:32
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seb128mxpxpod: pong07:34
mxpxpodseb128: alright, the rebuild fixed the one relocation error, but I'm getting a new one :)07:34
mxpxpodif I had a faster connection, I'd reinstall all the packages on my system07:34
mxpxpodalso, I'm having problems with X07:35
mxpxpodwait, there's a update... let me get those and I'll see if those fix my X problems07:36
ivoksxcompmgr and transset are really nice feauters :(07:37
ivoksdoh.. wrong channel :)07:37
mdzdaniels: what is the correct way to determine when it is safe to start a client for the X server you just started a bit earlier?07:39
mdzdaniels: it seems that if I do it too early, it can't connect.  I've added an arbitrary delay of a few seconds and that works07:39
mxpxpodseb128: hmm07:48
mxpxpodseb128: X still won't start for me...07:49
seb128that's a bug for daniels :p07:49
schweebmxpxpod: think it's a symlink problem07:50
schweebfrom what I've heard07:50
mxpxpodschweeb: ah, ok07:50
Riddellseb128: what's the status of default folders for users (Documents, Music etc)?07:51
torkelmxpxpod: you can probably work around it with: ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X07:51
mxpxpodtorkel: yeah, just figured that out :)07:52
mxpxpodthanks, though07:52
seb128elmo: glib2.0 (experimental) clearlooks gtk-doc (incoming) syncs please07:52
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seb128Riddell: no move on that afaik07:53
mxpxpodtorkel: yeah, that worked... thanks :)07:54
Riddellseb128: any ide07:54
seb128Riddell: somebody need to pick a package name and a list of folder and to mail the list about it probably 07:54
torkelmxpxpod: np07:54
Riddellseb128: any idea which spec that was part of?07:54
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seb128Riddell: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FileManagerImprovement07:55
Riddellseb128: thanks07:56
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mxpxpodseb128: wanna see the new relocation error?07:57
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seb128mxpxpod: yep07:59
mxpxpod/usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16: R_PPC_REL24 relocation at 0x0ffa7b58 for symbol `XextRemoveDisplay' out of range07:59
seb128still wnck ...08:00
seb128wait for jbailey :p08:00
mxpxpodI noticed that libwnck17 just went in08:00
seb128time for diner here, bbl08:00
mxpxpodmaybe (crosses fingers) that will solve stuff when everything is converted08:01
mxpxpodseb128: have a nice dinner08:01
terrexwhere can i read a tutorial for writing makefiles08:04
mxpxpodterrex: lidn.sf.net08:05
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terrexmxpxpod: thx08:05
mxpxpodterrex: you can learn a lot of stuff there :)08:06
jphi all :) the upgrade of some x packages broken my x server :D cool, why you don't try them before upload? =P08:06
jptday opgrade :)08:06
mxpxpodjp: do you know how to fix it?08:06
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jpmxpxpod: no dude :(08:07
mxpxpodjp: try this: sudo ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X08:07
jpthanks mxpxpod :)08:08
mxpxpodjp: thank torkel 08:08
mxpxpodhe showed me08:08
jphehe thanks torkel :P08:09
torkeljp: np08:09
torkeljp: ...as long as you don't hang me next time X fails when upgrading, because the changed link makes anything else to break :-)08:10
mxpxpodtorkel: it shouldn't break anything else08:10
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torkelmxpxpod: and ypu are willing to bet on that? It is X we are talking about :-)08:11
mxpxpodtorkel: haha, good point... I retract my last statement08:11
jptorkel ;) :P08:12
jpE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)08:14
jpuhmm :$08:14
jpI upgrade with reinstall on my other pc running breezy too :$08:15
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jpsudo apt-get install --reinstall libx11-6 xlibs-data08:18
jpI just didi it :)08:18
jpnow let's compile gnome :p08:18
calcis wpa-supplicant going to be integrated with network manager for breezy?08:33
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jptorkel the ln didn't work :(08:35
jpwhen I startx says /etc/X11/x isn't executable :/08:35
calcit should be a symlink to the X executable08:36
hungerjp: IIRC startx does not like symlinks.08:37
calcjp: on my system its actually /usr/bin/X11/Xorg not /usr/bin/Xorg08:37
hungercalc: Are you on breezy?08:37
calchunger: yea08:37
jpI did ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X08:37
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hungercalc: It is /usr/bin here... strange.08:38
jpI'll try what you say calc 08:38
calchunger: hmm i haven't updated since yesterday08:38
calcjp: well just look to see where that binary is on your system to link it properly08:38
jpcalc: thank you dude08:39
jpnow it works :D08:39
{Seb}has anyone got Network Manager to work on Breezy?08:39
calchmm there is another xorg update since i lasted updated my system08:39
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shayasigh, /usr/X11R6/bin/X isn't installed suid, which means startx doesnt work08:42
calcits suid here08:42
calcxserver-xorg 6.8.2-3308:43
shayait's suid for me now too08:43
shayabecause I made it08:43
calci didn't change anything08:43
calchmm upgrading to that now08:43
=== calc kicks someone for breaking things in between releases ;)
calcyep my suid bit went away08:44
shayafiled a bug08:44
shayaand gdm's been broken for ages for me08:44
shayahence why I see this startx08:44
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shayaoff to see batman begins in imax08:45
calcgdm works for me, but i just installed this laptop yesterday08:45
shayamaybe should try again08:45
shayabut not now08:45
shayamovie beckons08:45
wasabi_Is there a way to create a symlink using a full path, but actually have it stored with a relative path?08:47
wasabi_Build-script related. I don't want to be ln -s .../.../../../../../blah08:47
wasabi_But rather ln -s $(FULLPATH)/file08:47
doko_wasabi_: policy is to use relative symlinks08:48
carstenh.oO(why not try it and be surpriced that it works?)08:48
wasabi_doko_, I know. I want them stored relative... but I want to use a build-script variable to create them.08:48
carstenh.oO(hmm, policy)08:48
Lathiatso make your build script figure out how many .. you need08:48
Lathiatadd one each makefile iteration? :)08:48
wasabi_Lathiat, =(08:48
wasabi_I'd like ln to figure it out for me haha08:49
doko_use dh_link08:49
wasabi_I had thought dh_link wouldn't take absolute paths.08:50
doko_it does, and makes relative link when necessary08:50
wasabi_I just basically thinkg ../../../../ looks ugly and unreadable.08:56
danielsguh, -EMDZ08:58
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=== Yann2 , from the french locoteam, wondering if it might be possible to open a forum for all locoteams
BurgundaviaYann2, that would be a forum issue, and they have there own channel #ubuntuforums09:04
Yann2thx :)09:04
Yann2bye ! :)09:04
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dokoelmo: please could you install OOo2 build-deps on davis/breezy?09:16
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siretartwasabi_: impressive work on eclipse! running great here!09:22
wasabi_Super. Thanks!09:22
wasabi_The #classpath guys desearve more credit than I, however,09:22
siretartwasabi_: just a minor "tweak", in Help->About the build id is @build@ ;)09:22
wasabi_Yeah. I know. ;)09:23
siretartok :)09:23
siretartwasabi_: why is the default workspace place ~/.eclipse/workspace? Is this new at upstream since eclipse 3.1?09:24
wasabi_No. It's sort of something I need to think about more.09:24
siretartit's not a real problem, but I'm used to work with ~/workspace. just a habit09:24
wasabi_Eclipse tries to put hte workspace in the current directory.09:24
siretartah, ic09:25
wasabi_And I cd into .eclipse before launching it.09:25
wasabi_And I don't like ~/workspace since it's ambiguous.09:25
elmodoko: done09:25
jordielmo: too bad you were in Leeds :|09:25
wasabi_Actually, I think the entire workspace idea sucks.09:25
wasabi_But the worksapce is where the per-user settings go.09:25
jordimdz nearly got me drunk09:25
wasabi_So... what I'd *like* is for the user to never be asked about the workspace.09:26
wasabi_For Eclipse to just open, properly.09:26
wasabi_But, when you create a new project, for it to attempt to create the project outside the workspace by default.09:26
wasabi_Or open an existing project and it works as normal, etc.09:26
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siretartthat would really be nice, but I this does not integrate cleanly in a windows environment, which upstream seems to be concerned about09:27
wasabi_How so?09:27
wasabi_~/workspace isn't defautl for Windows.09:27
siretartnever worked with eclipse on windows, maybe I'm talking bullshit ;)09:27
elmojordi: yeah, sucky timing09:27
wasabi_Well, first off ~ doesn't exist on Windows. ;)09:28
wasabi_I think Eclipse creates it in My Documents, actually.09:28
wasabi_It's still compatible in the same way. You can alter teh worksapce to be anywhere.09:28
siretartwasabi_: I tried to "run" a hello world from eclipse, but I keep getting this error dialog "An error occured. See error log for more details". Is this a known bug or a misconfiguration on my side?09:29
wasabi_Nope. I don't know it.09:29
wasabi_Let me give it a go, hold on.09:29
wasabi_I don't think I've run anything yet.09:29
ivoksi did perl :)09:30
jordielmo: next time. I hear your living room is the data centre now ;)09:30
wasabi_Yeah I see it.09:30
wasabi_Looks like a classpath issue.09:31
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wasabi_XML parsing.09:32
dokoelmo: thanks09:32
dokohmm, bad time for a dist-upgrade ... no atheros driver in 2.6.12, and the gnome-session doesn't start.09:32
ivoks? it does :)09:33
siretartwasabi_: if I find further issues, shall I ping you on irc, or do you prefer email? or some other bug tracking system?09:35
wasabi_I haven't looked at malone enough yet to understand it.09:39
wasabi_I wish it was just in bugzilla. =/09:39
siretartbugs. ?09:39
stratusfabbione, what's up with linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-3-686 ? linux-meta build a related metapackage but i can't see the package itself around, can you?09:40
stratusdaniels, around?09:40
danielsl-r-m for 2.6.12 isn't ready yet, and it will take a little while09:40
Treenaksdaniels: people will love you for it09:41
stratusdaniels, thanks i just need the updated ipw2200 firmware, i'll do it manually now.09:42
danielsi'm doing what I can09:42
danielsstratus: er, I didn't think that was in l-r-m09:42
danielsno, it's not09:43
danielsthe only firmware in there is for acx1xx09:43
danielsipw2x00 stuff is in linux-source09:43
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stratuswas it moved after hoary ?09:43
spotterdaniels you here?09:43
danielsstratus: no09:44
danielsspotter: sup09:44
stratusdaniels, packages.ubuntu.com is lying to me so09:44
spottercalc experienced same suid problem09:44
spottermaybe dpkg related?09:44
stratusdaniels, i'm talking about files sitting at /lib/hotplug/firmware the ipw2200* ones09:44
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trukulohi ppl09:45
=== spotter cant believe he decided to irc from his cell
Lathiatstratus: they are in linux-image-2.6.1209:45
danielsstratus: i've maintained l-r-m since days, and I don't remember ipw2x00 ever being in there, largely because it was already in the core kernel package09:45
Lathiatstratus: dpkg -S /lib/hotplug/firmware/ipw-2.309:46
stratusLathiat, i found thanks09:47
=== spotter pokes calc
danielsspotter: i dunno, sorry09:47
danielsspotter: but yeah, xserver-common has always had it suid, and I've never touched that bit of the code09:47
spotterI'l look again when i get back from this movie09:48
spotterirc from cell way too painful09:49
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dokohmm, somebody knows, if libnss-dev can be built from the firefox source instead of mozilla?10:03
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Mitariolo everyone11:06
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mvohey Mitario 11:10
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jpnow I upgraded and x crashed again11:24
jpnow it says: fatal server error, unable to connect to x server =P11:24
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jpnow it says: fatal server error, unable to connect to x server =P11:54
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