[01:25] <pablo> andy@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com cool :P
[01:25] <pablo> jaja
[01:31] <tseng> pablo: he used ubuntu first
[01:31] <tseng> pablo: gotta pay the bills somehow.
[01:35] <pablo> tseng: jajajaj
[01:35] <pablo> :P
[01:39] <pablo> who's the ubuntu evo maintainer?
[01:40] <crimsun> seb has done a lot of work with it
[01:40] <pablo> ok crimsun :)
[01:41] <daniels> pablo: be patient -- it's 0141 on a sunday night in seb's timezone
[01:42] <pablo> daniels heheh ;) ok :P
[01:42] <mdke> pablo, evolution should be in breezy already
[01:42] <pablo> mdke 2.3.4?
[01:42] <pablo> uhm
[01:43] <pablo> mdke: my problem with the version of breezy is this: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12188
[01:43] <mdke> pablo, the latest version of evolution is inserted into breezy periodically until version freeze. Bugs will get fixed in time
[01:44] <mdke> yeah i've seen that bug
[01:44] <pablo> oh ok mdke :)
[01:44] <pablo> that's an horrible bug ;)
[01:44] <pablo> jejeje
[01:44] <mdke> pablo, breezy will have lots of bugs, it is the version for testing. If you want a distro without bugs, you should really use hoary hedgehod
[01:44] <mdke> d/g
[01:45] <pablo> yep, I know that.
[02:03] <camilotelles> mdz: hi there
[02:04] <mdz> camilotelles: hello and goodbye; I'm going to sleep ;-)
[02:04] <camilotelles> mdz: see you tomorrow, goodbye
[02:04] <camilotelles> and good night
[02:10] <tseng> daniels: omfg you suck
[02:10] <tseng> daniels: X not executable
[02:14] <daniels> i didn't change anything
[02:14] <daniels> -33 or -34?
[02:14] <tseng> 34
[02:14] <tseng> the /etc/X11/X symlink is broken
[02:14] <tseng>  /usr/bin/X11 is gone
[02:14] <daniels> please dump a full ls -l of everything X-related in the chain at me in /msg
[02:15] <tseng> ill need to put it back where it was
[02:15] <daniels> OH, I see
[02:15] <tseng> and install gpm
[02:16] <daniels> right, needs new x-common
[02:16] <borkdox> hi
[02:16] <tseng> the link is fixed is all
[02:16] <borkdox> anyone knows the deal with openoffice on amd64 udner breezy? are ia32-libs broken right now?
[02:16] <tseng> *needs
[02:17] <borkdox> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=239584#post239584
[02:17] <borkdox> i posted that in the quest of finding out whats the deal...
[02:20] <daniels> tseng: new x-common uploaded, which makes /usr/bin/X11 a symlink to /usr/bin
[02:20] <tseng> daniels: rock on dude, thanks
[02:20] <daniels> np
[02:20] <daniels> i had it prepared, just forgot to upload
[02:33] <lamont> daniels: xfixes was tomorrow?
[05:09] <fabbione> morning
[06:32] <karthik085> Hello, My name is Karthik. I would like to actively contribute to Kubuntu and KDE. What is the process I need to go to become one of the maintainers?
[06:33] <fabbione> hi karthik085 
[06:33] <fabbione> a good place to start is #ubuntu-motu and #kubuntu-devel
[06:34] <fabbione> karthik085: the first step to become a maintainer is to become a "MOTU"
[06:34] <fabbione> (very short version of the story)
[06:36] <karthik085> Hey fabbione. I applied to become a MOTU.
[06:36] <fabbione> ok did you read all the documentation on how to become one?
[06:36] <karthik085> Yup.
[06:36] <fabbione> because you need to show up during TB/CC meetings and prove yourself as a valid MOTU before you can be one
[06:37] <fabbione> i think the best is to ask in -motu how to do so
[06:37] <karthik085> I will be attending the one on Tuesday
[06:37] <fabbione> i personally don't recall all the details and i don't want to put you in the wrong direction
[06:37] <karthik085> Do you know what skills one need to become a maintainer?
[06:38] <fabbione> it depends what your skills are
[06:38] <fabbione> there is always something to do :)
[06:38] <karthik085> :-)
[06:39] <karthik085> I am good at programming, especially C++ and Java. Currently, I am learning Ruby. I also designed/developed various projects for my university. Recently, a paper based on my program got accpted in a conference.
[06:41] <fabbione> karthik085: sounds good.. i think you need to find yourself a place where to apply these skills...
[06:42] <fabbione> we don't exactly force people to do something they don't want to :)
[06:42] <fabbione> and talking with the MOTU's is the best you can do imho
[06:43] <karthik085> Ok.. I will talk to MOTU's. Thanks.
[06:43] <fabbione> welcome :)
[07:08] <pitti> Good morning
[07:10] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:10] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:12] <pitti> infinity: ping
[08:18] <infinity> pitti : pong
[08:24] <fabbione> hey infinity 
[08:24] <infinity> Yo Fabio.
[08:25] <fabbione> infinity: what's up?
[08:25] <infinity> Working to get a bunch of upstream version bumps ready in the next 2 days, since I just went back and re-read the release schedule and checked the calendar. :)
[08:25] <fabbione> ehehe
[08:26] <\sh> question: the upstreamfreeze is only for main, or is it also for universe? 
[08:26] <infinity> Also, wishing customs would release my laptop and send it to me.
[08:26] <pitti> elmo: 
[08:26] <pitti> elmo: please sync pmount from Debian experimental
[08:26] <infinity> \sh : Just main.  Universe gets some slack cut, since we don't officially support it anyway.
[08:27] <\sh> wonderful :)
[08:27] <jdub> \sh: syncing stops, but uploading has been fine thus far (without approval)
[08:27] <pitti> \sh: right, that's entirely MOTU driven; if they accept a new upstream release 2 days before release, that's fine
[08:27] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:27] <infinity> FOr some value of "fine"... A little common sense would be nice.
[08:27] <pitti> of course
[08:27] <Amaranth> since universe doesn't ship on a CD i don't see why it should freeze at all
[08:28] <\sh> Amaranth, we need to get some apps stable in the end...and sometimes it's better to have an older stable version, then an unstable new version ,-)
[08:28] <fabbione> WOW.. i think i never managed to hang d-i so badly.. getting the screen to switch to another tty :)
[08:28] <crimsun> I think we've hashed this one before and reached a consensus that a stable release really needs to be stable, even for universe.
[08:29] <womble> fabbione: I saw a similar problem with a Hoary pre-release
[08:29] <fabbione> womble: nah.. i am messing with it :)
[08:29] <womble> Oh, OK.  Might want to get that one fixed before release... <grin>
[08:30] <fabbione> womble: no.. really? :)
[08:30] <ajmitch> Amaranth: and that it's trickier to accept uploads to universe while leaving main frozen
[08:30] <\sh> but actually I would really like to have some comments on this showstopper...should we put this app into universe as a replacement of the old package, or should we w8 for debian and kick the old one out of the repos?
[08:30] <\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11456
[08:30] <womble> Ever seen Dumb and Dumber?  I'm thinking the "IOU 1 ferrari" scene here
[08:31] <\sh> (actually it's not only an app)
[08:31] <infinity> \sh : Does anything {build-,}depend on it?
[08:32] <\sh> infinity, only the packages generated directly from the source 
[08:33] <infinity> \sh : And do your packages seem to build and work fine?
[08:33] <\sh> infinity, i tried the last official "stable release" of gnuradio-core (replacement for old gnuradio-0.9) and it didn't compile with gnu c/c++ 3.4 or 4.x
[08:33] <infinity> \sh : If so, I see no issues.  Just version your package with -0ubuntu1, so a Debian -1 will be higher, and see about working with the Debian maintainer to converge the packaging/sources at some point in the future.
[08:34] <\sh> the latest cvs head is compiling and the debian maintainer was really surprised as well to see it's compiling..(i only test it for i386)
[08:34] <infinity> \sh : Debian will be doing the gcc4 transition very (VERY) soon, so the Debian packages will need updating ASAP anyway.
[08:34] <\sh> infinity, yeah read the announcement of doko on d-d
[08:42] <Amaranth> is the kernel going to get built with gcc 4?
[08:52] <infinity> Amaranth : Not for breezy.
[08:52] <\sh> well, new xorg and some new eclipse stuff nice
[08:52] <Amaranth> ok, can we at least get the same version of gcc 3.4 that the kernel was actually built with? :)
[08:53] <dholbach> morning
[08:54] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[08:54] <\sh> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libx11-6_1-0x1,ba1a10000005bp-1336.2.1+cvs.20050615-4_i386.deb:  versuche /usr/lib/X11/XErrorDB zu berschreiben, welches auch in Paket xlibs-data ist
[08:54] <jsgotangco> dholbach, morning!
[08:54] <\sh> uhh
[08:54] <dholbach> what were those magic symlinks i had to place to get x working again?
[08:55] <dholbach> morning jerome
[08:55] <dholbach> morning martin
[08:55] <crimsun> new x-common should fix that
[08:55] <Lathiat> daniels: bah you broke X again ;p
[08:55] <jsgotangco> you have to offer some virgins though first
[08:56] <dholbach> poor daniels :/
[08:56] <\sh> Lathiat, force it force it ;) xorg is more maso then anything else ,-)
[08:56] <Lathiat> daniels: /usr/bin/X11 has only a symlink of bin to /usr/bin
[08:57] <crimsun> I thought he fixed that in the last upload
[08:57] <Lathiat> yeh and broke it in this one :)
[08:57] <infinity> daniels didn't do the last upload.
[08:58] <Amaranth> crimsun did? :)
[08:58] <Lathiat> he did according to my changelog
[08:58] <infinity> Err, yes he did.  I'm blind. :)
[09:00] <\sh> good morning chmj 
[09:00] <pitti> Hi chmj
[09:00] <chmj> good morning all 
[09:01] <pitti> brb
[09:01] <dholbach> where should /usr/bin/X11 point to?
[09:01] <infinity> Lathiat : The symlink from x-common looks correct to me.
[09:01] <infinity> dholbach : ../bin, just as it does.
[09:01] <dholbach> hrm
[09:02] <dholbach> i'll take a leaf out of keybuk's book and strace it =)
[09:02] <dholbach> and prepare some coffee in the meantime
[09:03] <Lathiat> well, i have /usr/bin/X11/bin pointing at /usr/bin
[09:03] <Lathiat> is that right?
[09:05] <Lathiat> judging by the look of things, /usr/bin/X11 shoudl be -> /usr/bin, to /usr/bin/X11/bin
[09:05] <torkel> 'ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X' made it work for me
[09:05] <Lathiat> i did get an error when upgrading, after using apt-get -f install to get libx11-6 everythign finished up fine
[09:05] <Lathiat> torkel: yeh thats hacky tho, ki think /usr/bin/X11 is just wrong
[09:05] <infinity> root@lucifer:~ # ls -l /usr/bin/X11
[09:05] <infinity> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 6 Jul  4 06:59 /usr/bin/X11 -> ../bin
[09:05] <Lathiat> not that i have any idea why theres a /usr/bin/X11 in the first place
[09:06] <Lathiat> infinity: right, see thats not what i have
[09:06] <Lathiat> hm
[09:06] <infinity> Lathiat : Do you have the latest x-common and other X friends?
[09:06] <dholbach> torkel: thank you
[09:06] <torkel> Lathiat: right now I'm more intrested in getting it working :-)
[09:06] <Lathiat> well i should do
[09:06] <Lathiat> everythings up to date and ubuntu-desktop is installed so unless something isnt included somewhere
[09:07] <dholbach> brb
[09:07] <Lathiat> x-common is 1.01
[09:08] <dholbach> RE :)
[09:09] <infinity> Lathiat : Does "apt-get --reinstall install x-common" magically fix it?
[09:10] <infinity> Lathiat : Oh, wait.  DO you have a DIRECTORY called /usr/bin/X11 with a symlink in it that's "bin -> /usr/bin"?
[09:11] <Lathiat> infinity: yes
[09:11] <infinity> Hrmph.  Kay, I can see why.
[09:11] <infinity> If you delete that symlink then reinstall x-common, you'll get fixed up.
[09:11] <infinity> (you don't have any other files in that directory, do you?)
[09:11] <Amaranth> oh, i remember that problem
[09:11] <infinity> The real bug needs to be fixed, though.
[09:11] <Amaranth> hacks to fix old X problems cause new X problems!
[09:11] <infinity> Not tough.  WOuld have been less hackish if it was done right the first time, though.
[09:13] <infinity> It seems that every time someone reinvents this wheel, they break it in new and interesting ways.
[09:15] <dholbach> infinity: you're so positive about things... i like that :)
[09:15] <infinity> Oh, there's clearly a silver lining here.
[09:15] <infinity> Mainly being that every time this wheel IS reinvented, I see it done in completely different broken ways!
[09:16] <infinity> (I broke it about 4 different ways myself just a few months ago(
[09:16] <dholbach> but you can at least find them interesting :)
[09:16] <infinity> s/\($/\)/
[09:16] <dholbach> mvo: good morning, michael!
[09:16] <pitti> Hey mvo
[09:18] <mvo> good morning to dholbach, pitti and to others!
[09:22] <\sh> chmj, did u receive my mail?
[09:28] <dholbach> see you later guys
[09:32] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
[09:33] <chmj> \sh, not yet 
[09:36] <fabbione> Kamion: do i remember right that ppc is the only arch that doesn't have lvm support in parman?
[09:47] <\sh> chmj, charles@ubuntu.com, right?
[09:47] <chmj> yes got it 
[09:48] <\sh> chmj, good :)
[10:04] <doko> elmo: please sync java-gcj-compat and python-imaging from unstable
[10:06] <fabbione> sabdfl mornign 
[10:06] <Kamion> fabbione: it's not partman, it's parted
[10:06] <Kamion> fabbione: but yeah, only one of our supported arches anyway
[10:07] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. sorry... i still get confused by the names
[10:07] <fabbione> Kamion: do you know about sparc/ia64/hppa?
[10:08] <Kamion> not offhand - but I would imagine they do, the only reason powerpc (actually just powerpc with Mac partition tables) doesn't is that there isn't a standard for recording it in the partition table, and the pseudo-standard we agreed hasn't been implemented in parted yet
[10:08] <Kamion> powerpc with IBM partition tables (e.g. RS/6000s) should be able to manage LVM just fine
[10:08] <Kamion> likewise RAID
[10:09] <fabbione> Kamion: ok...
[10:09] <fabbione> right now i am at a good point in parsing the recipe's and take some proper actions to create separate /boot and the LVM envelope
[10:09] <fabbione> i am fighting a bit with creating partitions with open_dialog...
[10:12] <Kamion> bah, still no working syncage of svn->baz imports
[10:14] <Kamion> and as infinity observes we have upstream version freeze in two days, at least if my recollection of breezy release on 12th October is correct
[10:14] <Kamion> if it's 19th October we have another week
[10:16] <infinity> Kamion : Well, the wiki told me it was in 2 days.  Maybe it lied to me.
[10:16] <infinity> Kamion : I can always hope.
[10:16] <Kamion> which page?
[10:17] <infinity> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[10:18] <Kamion> oh, I was looking at the wrong wiki, as usual
[10:18] <Kamion> yeah
[10:23] <pitti> Hey mdz 
[10:26] <mdz> pitti: morning
[10:26] <sabdfl> morning fabbione, all!
[10:26] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[10:26] <fabbione> morning mdz
[10:27] <pitti> mdz: still remember the sound card hotplug discussion?
[10:28] <mdz> pitti: whether to change the default when a new sound device is hotplugged?
[10:28] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[10:28] <pitti> mdz: I have a patch for g-v-m ready for some weeks
[10:28] <pitti> mdz: I just didn't upload it because it is incredibly hard to tell the audio mixer to display a certain card by default
[10:29] <pitti> mdz: but that's entirely unrelated to the question whether we do that in g-v-m or in the mixer applet
[10:29] <pitti> mdz: I just think it is not worth the trouble of temporarily introducing huge modifications to the mixer applet if we want to have an universal event notifier in the future
[10:31] <mdz> pitti: so the g-v-m patch detects the change, but can't take the appropriate action for the mixer applet?
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: well, it can also change the default card, that's no problem
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: however, we wanted a "configure card..." which calls the mixer 
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: of course this should show the new card by default, to make any sense
[10:32] <pitti> mdz: however, that's an entirely different problem, it's just the reason why I didn't yet upload that
[10:32] <mdz> pitti: is it something we could bounty upstream for?
[10:32] <mdz> to make it easier to tell the mixer to change?
[10:32] <pitti> mdz: I already talked with upstream
[10:32] <pitti> mdz: upstream's preferred solution would involve some heavy gconf/gstreamer action
[10:33] <mdz> daniels: still a file overlap between libx11-6 and xlibs-data
[10:33] <pitti> mdz: however, finally he didn't think a simple command line argument were entirely wrong
[10:37] <doko> seb128: ping
[10:37] <seb128> doko: pong
[10:37] <Kamion> fabbione: after a fresh install, I get a post-update information item telling me that I've just installed a new version of the Linux kernel
[10:38] <fabbione> Kamion: hmmmmm.... yes.. 
[10:38] <fabbione> Kamion: that's a tricky problem to solve
[10:39] <tvo> Riddell: hi
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion: because the notification file is installed with the package.. making it part of postinst is an issue...
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion: because a kernel update with an ABI change will be recognized as fresh install
[10:39] <fabbione> and you won't get the notification of such kernel
[10:39] <mdz> doko: you mentioned you had been preparing new oo.o2 packages; what is the blocker?
[10:40] <fabbione> Kamion: perhaps we can clean the messages queued for the notification applet at first install?
[10:40] <doko> libxt-java and libxp-java, reviewed by pitti, waiting for universe->main promotion
[10:40] <doko> mdz: ^^^
[10:41] <mdz> doko: I didn't get an email about that; did you ask elmo or Kamion?
[10:42] <doko> hmm, you are subscribed to the wiki page? anyway, I'll send a notice in the future. uploaded it on Saturday
[10:43] <mdz> doko: done
[10:43] <mdz> doko: does it need to be given back?
[10:45] <Kamion> fabbione: uh, I guess - seems pretty hackish though :(
[10:45] <doko> mdz, infinity: yes
[10:45] <Kamion> fabbione: I see what you mean, though, it's problematic
[10:45] <doko> mdz: ahh, no, it's auto-tried ... so it should just build.
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. and there is no way i can change postinstall dynamically at build time because it's added by kernel-package....
[10:46] <mdz> infinity: oo.o2
[10:46] <pitti> fabbione: I have the same problem with the language pack upgrade notification; writing the file in postinst is the only solution I see
[10:47] <fabbione> pitti: i can't write it in postinst.. really..
[10:47] <Kamion> pitti: with package names changing, that's tricky for the kernel
[10:47] <Kamion> so how do I clear out the notification applet's queue?
[10:48] <infinity> doko : Indeed, OO.o2 is in needs-build on all arches.
[10:48] <fabbione> Kamion: i think it's enough you remove the files from the notification dir before executing it
[10:48] <infinity> doko : Do any of its build-deps need some TLC?
[10:48] <fabbione> Kamion: since it's a fresh install the notification applet won't even see them
[10:48] <pitti> Kamion: /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/notification-2.6.12-3-powerpc
[10:48] <doko> infinity: TLC?
[10:49] <Kamion> fabbione: (a) I don't execute the applet, I just start GNOME, (b) that file is shipped in the .deb so I can't remove it
[10:49] <infinity> doko : Tender Loving Care.  Or "effort on my part".
[10:49] <doko> infinity: no
[10:49] <infinity> Alright.
[10:49] <fabbione> Kamion: well yes you can remove it.. it's not a config file ;)
[10:50] <pitti> fabbione: /etc/kernel/postinst.d
[10:50] <pitti> fabbione: I use that for linux-hardened-support, works very well
[10:50] <fabbione> pitti: ?
[10:51] <pitti> fabbione: that's a hook dir for kernel postinst's
[10:51] <pitti> fabbione: you can drop a file in that directory, and it will be executed; you can use that to generate the update notifications
[10:52] <fabbione> pitti: and what would be different from installing the file directly?
[10:52] <Kamion> fabbione: it's rather painful for me to mark that update-notifier hook as seen
[10:52] <Kamion> fabbione: (short of just rming the file, which I won't do)
[10:52] <pitti> fabbione: you can check whether you are installing from scratch, or upgrading
[10:52] <fabbione> pitti: you will hit the same problem as Kamion told you above...
[10:52] <Kamion> fabbione: to do that, I have to write into the initial user's home directory; and I can't do that in all cases, because it might be e.g. NFS-mounted
[10:52] <fabbione> pitti: with a name change due to ABI change, you won't see the difference between a fresh install and an upgrade
[10:53] <Kamion> the installer avoids stuff that requires it to write into the initial user's home directory for good reason
[10:53] <Kamion> fabbione: you can look for /boot/vmlinu* or similar
[10:53] <Kamion> fabbione: or I can try to get you some hint that you're running within the initial bootstrap
[10:54] <fabbione> Kamion: i am more prone to remove this notification area thingy
[10:54] <Kamion> though that's also relatively hackish ...
[10:54] <fabbione> it's more a problem to do than the problem that it solves
[10:54] <fabbione> and hounetly the kernel maintainer scripts are already complex enough to add extra point of possible failures
[10:55] <Kamion> mm
[10:57] <mvo> could the hooks themself extended to better support your needs somehow?
[10:57] <mvo> (sorry for jumping in late)
[10:57] <fabbione> mvo: eheh no problem dude :)
[10:57] <Kamion> if there were a global way (not touching users' home directories) to mark a hook as seen, that might help?
[10:58] <fabbione> mvo: the hook would require a high level of complexity to recognize only what's happening
[10:58] <mvo> Kamion: that would certainly be doable
[10:58] <fabbione> Kamion: would it be so bad for you to just trash that file at first install? imho it's at the same level of hugly hacks as me getting crazy to figure that out from maintainer script hooks
[10:59] <Kamion> fabbione: I think it goes over my hack threshold
[10:59] <pitti> mvo: u-n should check the md5sums of changed files, so that it doesn't display the same notice again
[10:59] <Kamion> I don't mind globally saying "no notifications on first install", but trashing a specific file for a specific package (even if it is the kernel) is getting pretty grotty
[11:00] <pitti> well, the first alternative would indeed help
[11:00] <mvo> Kamion: the hook files are not precious, I think I'll add some sort of cleanup for old hook files anyway in the future
[11:00] <pitti> mvo: right now I wanted to convert the langpack update notice from "ship in deb" to "generate dynamically in postinst" for the same reason
[11:00] <fabbione> Kamion: i understand that
[11:01] <mvo> Kamion: but your point is valid of course
[11:01] <pitti> mvo: I basically have the same problem: if I install the langpack from scratch, I don't want the note
[11:01] <mvo> pitti: not sure about this, the kernel message "please reboot" is always the same, but needs to be displayed nevertheless
[11:01] <Kamion> mvo: I think all files shipped in .debs have to be considered precious - I don't want to confuse tools like debsums by going around removing shipped files
[11:02] <mvo> right
[11:02] <pitti> mvo: maybe a better solution than reinventing the wheel in many postinsts is a "install-update-note" script in u-n?
[11:03] <mvo> pitti: what would that script do?
[11:04] <pitti> mvo: maybe "i-u-n <package version> <package version for displaying note> <file>"
[11:04] <pitti> it could compare postinst's $2 lt-nl <package version for displaying note>
[11:05] <pitti> so it wouldn't be installed if the pkg is installed from scratch ($2 == '')
[11:05] <pitti> and wouldn't be installed if it already exists
[11:05] <pitti> however, I didn't think about that thoroughly, I just need that for the langpacks
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione certainly has different requirements for ABI changes etc.
[11:07] <mvo> pitti: would it be ok if you could try to make your language-pack script a bit more generic so that it could be envoled into a generic i-u-n script later?
[11:07] <Riddell> tvo: hi
[11:07] <tvo> you're my mentor :)
[11:07] <tvo> you received my mail?
[11:07] <pitti> mvo: well, I'll implement what I need now, then we can discuss about a generic approach
[11:08] <mvo> pitti: fair enough, thanks
[11:09] <tvo> Riddell: you received my mail?
[11:10] <Amaranth> tvo: Can you do me a favor? You don't have to do it now, just for next time you connect.
[11:10] <tvo> Riddell: any comments about it?
[11:10] <tvo> Amaranth: probably
[11:10] <Amaranth> tvo: It helps others figure out who people are if they put their real name in for their user info.
[11:11] <Amaranth> right now /whois tvo says 'gaim', I dunno if you can change that with gaim
[11:11] <tvo> Amaranth: ah ok, I'll try to figure that out
[11:12] <mdz> elmo: is it possible/reasonable to move things from multiverse to universe via teri, or should I ask you instead?
[11:13] <pitti> brb
[11:14] <tvo> Amaranth: done, thanks for the info
[11:14] <Amaranth> tvo: Awesome, now I can look up what you're working on. :)
[11:14] <tvo> hehe
[11:18] <Riddell> tvo: don't see an e-mail from you, what was the subject?
[11:19] <tvo> Riddell: "Kubuntu Summer of Code"
[11:19] <Riddell> tvo: ah of course, havn't read it
[11:19] <Riddell> Edinburgh has been fairly hectic this weekend
[11:19] <Riddell> naturally it's not at the top of my TODO list
[11:19] <Riddell> s/not/now/
[11:20] <tvo> Riddell: ah ok, just checking, some feedback would be appreciated once you've read it...
[11:21] <pitti> Riddell: btw, I tested the new KDE langpacks; the mo files were installed, but the app didn't even look for them
[11:21] <pitti> Riddell: may it be that kdelibs does not use libc's gettext(), but its own implemenetation?
[11:22] <Riddell> pitti: KDE does need the language set
[11:22] <Riddell> pitti: do you have an example package I could test?
[11:23] <pitti> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ -> language-pack-kde-de-base_20050702_all.deb language-pack-kde-de_20050702_all.deb   
[11:23] <pitti> Riddell: I tried with "kenolaba"
[11:24] <pitti> Riddell: I straced it, and it does not look in /usr/share/locale-langpacks, as libc does
[11:24] <pitti> Riddell: so I assume KDE apps use a kdelibs or whatever implementation?
[11:27] <pitti> Hi icaro
[11:27] <icaro> hi pitti 
[11:28] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin, 'sup?
[11:28] <pitti> Hi sivang
[11:32] <ivoks> hello
[11:35] <doko> mdz, Kamion, elmo: please promote libdb4.2-java-dev to main as well, just a split from libdb4.2-java
[11:40] <mdz> doko: I already had
[11:40] <mdz> doko: python2.4-numarray now depends on some atlas3 packages
[11:41] <mdz> atlas3 is that massive optimized math library, right?
[11:41] <mdz> the packaging has seemed questionable to me
[11:46] <doko> mdz: very strange, libdb4.2-java-dev and libdb4.2-java are missing in the archive now. the buildd cannot find the package either.
[11:46] <mdz> doko: I moved them into main at the same time as libxt-java and libxp-java
[11:47] <mdz> they were just new binaries from a source package in main
[11:47] <mdz> libdb4.2-java-dev | 4.2.52-19ubuntu2 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[11:47] <mdz> libdb4.2-java | 4.2.52-19ubuntu2 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[11:48] <doko> mdz: yep. I'm waiting for a reply from the Debian maintainer. at least on our release architectures they should be preferred over the blas and refblas packages.
[11:49] <doko> mdz: ok, after the last Packages update, it can be found again.
[12:09] <mdz> doko: I also moved boost, since it was required by openoffice and pitti reviewed it
[12:10] <mvo> Kamion: I'll upload a new update-notifier with support for a global "seen" file in /etc/update-notifier/hooks_seen. the format is "hookfile-name mtime was-run" (e.g. "kernel `date +%s` 0")
[12:10] <pitti> mvo: how does that help?
[12:11] <mdz> mvo: how does the current mechanism work, to know when the message has already been seen?
[12:11] <doko> mdz: thanks
[12:11] <mvo> pitti: after a fresh install kamion can add a entry to this file and the kernel hook will not be displayed
[12:12] <mvo> mdz: it save a seen-file (same format) in the users homedir (in .update-notifier/hooks_seen)
[12:12] <seb128> elmo: ping?
[12:12] <pitti> hm, still looks h4ck1sh
[12:12] <mvo> pitti: yes :/
[12:14] <mdz> seb128: left alt+tab works as normal, but right alt+tab acts funny (when I release right alt, the selector stays up, and focus never changes).  do you know what might cause that?
[12:14] <Kamion> mvo: ok, I guess the only problem after that is that I have to work out the hookfile-name, but that should be straightforward
[12:16] <Kamion> find /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/ -type f | sed "s/\$/$(date +%s) 0/"
[12:16] <Kamion> or similar
[12:16] <mvo> yes, that should work
[12:16] <Kamion> well, with an extra space and with -printf '%P\n'
[12:17] <mdz> infinity: what's happening with the infrastructure bits of SoundEvents?
[12:22] <seb128> mdz: nop, seems to be a xorg/xkb issue
[12:25] <Kamion> mvo: what does the was-run bit do?
[12:25] <Kamion> mvo: I've committed that to base-config, anyway
[12:26] <mvo> Kamion: it tells if the script that may be embedded into the hook was run
[12:26] <seb128> mvo: libgtk2-perl issue is known upstream and by the Debian maintainer, should be fixed with next upstream, you can comment stuff on debian/rules for the moment as workaround if you want
[12:26] <Kamion> mvo: ok, thanks
[12:28] <mvo> seb128: disable the tests for now you mean? 
[12:28] <seb128> mvo: yep
[12:28] <seb128> I was waiting on new version/Debian version
[12:29] <Riddell> pitti: I think your kde-language packs should include the entry.desktop, flag.png and charset files used by KDE
[12:30] <Riddell> pitti: but also if you do kde-config --path locale it comes out with /home/jr/.kde/share/locale/:/usr/share/locale/
[12:30] <pitti> hm? desktop files in langpacks?
[12:30] <Riddell> pitti: so I need to work out how to add /usr/share/locale-langpack to that path
[12:30] <pitti> Riddell: so /usr/share/locale-langpack needs to be added to that path?
[12:30] <pitti> ok 
[12:31] <pitti> Riddell: can't this rather just use libc's gettext?
[12:32] <Riddell> pitti: seems not, I think for historical reasons
[12:32] <Riddell> hopefully KDE 4 will use gettext properly but I think back when this was written gettext didn't support everything needed
[12:33] <mdz> Riddell: did we reach a resolution on whether we need to upload another gettext package for kde?
[12:33] <Riddell> mdz: nope, carlos was going to look into it after rosetta 1.0, which was going to be start of july as I mind
[12:33] <mdz> Riddell: is it blocking any of your work?
[12:34] <Riddell> mdz: it's blocking KDE support in rosetta.  I have plenty of other things to get on with
[12:35] <mdz> ok
[12:36] <mdz> seb128: is there a newer (not yet uploaded) version of gst-plugins0.8 which build-deps on libmpcdec?
[12:36] <mdz> the version in breezy doesn't seem to require it
[12:36] <seb128> mdz: yep, on my list for today, why?
[12:36] <mdz> seb128: ah, ok
[12:36] <mdz> seb128: because it has a main inclusion report
[12:36] <seb128> mdz: was waiting on the approval before uploading
[12:36] <Riddell> pitti: the entry.desktop is needed to select the language through KDE Control Centre, works fine if you export LANG=foo but that's not very user friendly
[12:37] <pitti> Riddell: hm, but these desktop files should already be shipped somewhere, right?
[12:37] <Riddell> pitti: they're in kde-i18n-xx
[12:38] <pitti> hrm
[12:40] <infinity> mdz : Now that we actually have people submitting sounds, I'll upload the packagy bits in the next couple of days.
[12:41] <mdz> fabbione: have you been in contact with the XenIntegration mentee?
[12:42] <mdke> smurfix, around?
[12:43] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. i did send out pings to all the guys and received acknoledge from all of them.
[12:43] <mdz> fabbione: ok, please update the BreezyGoals entry accordingly
[12:43] <fabbione> mdz: they will feed me with weekly status reports.
[12:44] <mdz> list the student as the responsible person and mark it as a google project
[12:44] <mdz> (there are examples already on the page)
[12:44] <Kamion> hmm, the firefox logo in gnome-icon-theme needs to be fixed I think
[12:44] <fabbione> mdz: will do
[12:44] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[12:44] <fabbione> no problem
[12:44] <Kamion> why is mozilla-firefox.png shipped by about n different packages anyway?
[12:45] <mdz> infinity: is there something about the changes which makes them unsuitable until we have sounds?
[12:45] <seb128> Kamion: why?
[12:45] <mdz> I expect the process of gathering and refining the sounds will take some time yet
[12:45] <seb128> Kamion: what's wrong with the icon theme?
[12:46] <Kamion> seb128: it's the Mozilla foundation logo rather than the de-branded globe
[12:47] <seb128> they can't ship it?
[12:47] <mdz> doko: regarding OpenOfficeLocalisation, the status says it depends on oo.o vs. oo.o2; I think we are essentially committed to v2 at this point
[12:47] <mdz> doko: what remains to be done?
[12:47] <Kamion> seb128: the one in gnome-icon-theme is trademarked according to mozilla-firefox 0.8-6 changelog
[12:47] <Kamion> and there seem to have been some problems with that
[12:48] <seb128> Kamion: hum, should I bug GNOME upstreams?
[12:48] <seb128> any pointer for them?
[12:48] <Kamion> best check with thom, maybe
[12:48] <Kamion> I think he knows the history
[12:48] <seb128> k
[12:48] <Riddell> pitti: how is that locale-langpack directory added to gettext programmes locale path?
[12:48] <pitti> Riddell: a libc6 patch
[12:49] <smurfix> mdke: yo
[12:49] <pitti> Riddell: I proposed to upstream to generalize that facility, but it was rejected
[12:49] <Riddell> pitti: right.  and what's the reason for using locale-langpack over just installing to locale?
[12:49] <pitti> Riddell: to avoid file conflicts with locally installed debs
[12:49] <mdke> smurfix, yo indeed. thanks for the email, we've been looking at smf, can you tell me which locoteams use it so we can see what it looks like in practice?
[12:50] <smurfix> mdke: -fi and -ru
[12:50] <mdz> pitti: I was thinking yesterday about whether we could avoid stripping locales from .debs
[12:51] <mdke> smurfix, thanks
[12:51] <mdz> pitti: and do a delta from upstream translations->current translations instead of last-langpack->current translations
[12:51] <mdke> smurfix, -fi looks quite nice
[12:51] <mdz> pitti: depending on the activity level in rosetta and how quickly upstream integrates translations, it could be similar size
[12:51] <mdz> and would simplify things
[12:52] <seb128> and would be better for users
[12:52] <pitti> hm, worth thinking about that
[12:52] <seb128> atm if a package change the translation domain, the app goes to 0% translated 
[12:52] <pitti> well, that doesn't happen in stable releases
[12:53] <seb128> no, but it happens with unstable
[12:53] <seb128> and translators need to have correct translations to work to translate the next version
[12:54] <seb128> hum, lot of "translat" on the same sentence :p
[12:55] <pitti> mdz: I think that would mean a bigger sum of package sizes (mo files in deb + delta langpacks), so we probably need to drop more langpacks from CD
[12:55] <mdz> pitti: you think?  it seems non-obvious to me
[12:55] <pitti> mdz: i. e. if somebody in Rosetta fixes just one string, we would ship the same mo file twice
[12:55] <mdz> pitti: would it be a lot of work to calculate it?
[12:56] <pitti> mdz: well, calculating it requires the percentage of touched translations
[12:56] <fabbione> YES YES YES!!!!
[12:56] <pitti> mdz: we currently can't ship a "diff mo", just complete mo files
[12:56] <fabbione> Kamion: i just got the first automatically generated /boot out of p-a-l :D
[12:56] <mdz> pitti: right
[12:57] <pitti> mdz: so in the worst case the amount of shipped mo files doubles
[12:57] <mdz> but I think the percentage is relatively small at this point, right?
[12:57] <pitti> mdz: right now, yes
[12:57] <mdz> and I expect that in mature projects it would stabilize
[12:57] <pitti> mdz: but only because I don't yet pull translations from Rosetta
[12:57] <mdz> e.g., gnome will integrate new translations very quickly
[12:57] <pitti> mdz: right now I generate everything completely on my own from the stripped tarballs
[12:58] <mdz> when a new language is translated, it won't be upstream, and we still ship only one copy
[12:58] <pitti> right
[12:58] <mdz> pitti: right, but that should change in...3 days?
[12:58] <pitti> the exceptions are Ubuntu specific strings
[12:58] <infinity> mdz : Well, one of the major changes will involve pointing apps at what we would consider to be "sub-optimal" sounds, with the expectation that we'll get those files replaced with something more appriopriate in ubuntu-sounds before we ship.
[12:58] <pitti> but there aren't so many
[12:58] <fabbione> mdz: wiki updated
[12:58] <infinity> mdz : Now that I'm fairly confident the latter will happen, I'm happy to go ahead with the former, to make sure it's all in place.
[12:59] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[12:59] <pitti> mdz: yes, if it really changes in 3 days, then I have actual numbers for estimating the overhead
[12:59] <highvoltage> What is Oliver's nick? Ogra?
[12:59] <pitti> highvoltage: yes
[01:00] <highvoltage> pitti: do you perhaps have an idea when he'll be back home?
[01:00] <pitti> highvoltage: no, sorry
[01:00] <highvoltage> np
[01:00] <pitti> well, next week at latest
[01:00] <pitti> mdz: I calculate the diff when I get the first Rosetta updates, then we can evaluate that again. okay for you?
[01:01] <mdz> pitti: sounds good
[01:01] <pitti> mdz: just let me tell you that the latest Hoary tarball I got imported some 200 MB worth of new po files (uncompressed)
[01:01] <mdz> highvoltage: I would expect that he would be home already
[01:02] <highvoltage> mdz: okay. is he normally on irc most of the time, or not?
[01:02] <mdz> highvoltage: yes
[01:02] <mdz> his flight back was yesterday at about 2000 I think
[01:02] <highvoltage> mdz: thanks, i'll just come check a bit later.
[01:06] <pitti> mdz: so maybe I shall wait for another 3 days with uploading the split set of langpacks?
[01:07] <doko> mdz: OO.o2 translation: I'm sending an update this afternoon, will CC you and update the wiki
[01:08] <mdz> seb128: why is it that the X server is started by gdm without -br now?
[01:08] <Kamion> fabbione: cool :)
[01:09] <mdz> pitti: why, is the split affected by the rosetta exports?
[01:10] <pitti> mdz: no, but say we only upload diff packs, then we might not need the split any more
[01:11] <mdz> pitti: good point
[01:11] <seb128> mdz: I've dropped the change while switching the package to CDBS, I'll fix that with next upload
[01:11] <seb128> mdz: thanks for noticing
[01:16] <seb128> pitti: I'll do a gst-plugins0.8 upload, what audiosink do you want as default?
[01:16] <pitti> seb128: I think it should be esd for now
[01:16] <seb128> k
[01:16] <pitti> that'll work with both polypaudio and esd
[01:17] <pitti> seb128: does the polypaudio sink work for you now?
[01:17] <seb128> I've not built the new version yet
[01:17] <seb128> I'll let you know when I try
[01:17] <mdz> seb128: pitti approved libmpcdec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibmpcdec), so feel free to upload and I will process the promotion
[01:18] <seb128> mdz: I've doing the sync with Debian atm, will upload soon
[01:19] <mdke> smurfix, i've noticed there is something at ubuntu-it.org already, is that your server
[01:20] <\sh> strike...gnuradio-core actual cvs is compiled on all archs
[01:30] <smurfix> mdke: it's my server, but not the default page that *should* be there :-/
[01:30] <smurfix> I'll fix that
[01:30] <mdke> smurfix, no biggie, the other thing I noticed is that there are three directories in the irclogs directory, i don't know if there is a difference between them?
[01:31] <smurfix> mdke: No, they're symlinks
[01:31] <mdke> whoops
[01:31] <mdke> ok
[01:32] <smurfix> I've added a -FollowSymlinks to the .htaccess file there, but it does't take for some reason
[01:36] <pitti> seb128: hell, that Jeffrey Stedfast guy rewrote half of g-v-m, and still declares that as a microrelease
[01:37] <seb128> pitti: that's a unstable serie
[01:37] <pitti> seb128: in any case he did some really nice work
[01:37] <seb128> cool :)
[01:37] <pitti> seb128: it seems to be maintained again
[01:38] <seb128> pitti: GNOME change the minor only between tarballs, no consideration on much code has changed
[01:41] <pitti> sjoerd: here?
[01:55] <seb128> is there any Ubuntu ftpmaster around? :)
[01:56] <pitti> well, this set only contains elmo :-)
[01:56] <seb128> I've a evolution-data-server to upload with 2 new binary packages, can these be directed to main when the package is accepted?
[01:56] <seb128> pitti: :(
[01:56] <seb128> pitti: I'm trying to ping him to get a glib2.0 sync from Debian for 3 days now (k, I should not work during weekends) 
[01:57] <pitti> seb128: that should indeed work
[01:57] <seb128> jdub: what are you pimping and where?
[01:57] <pitti> does anybody know whether a sync is any more than just "upload the package from Debian to Ubuntu"?
[01:58] <seb128> pitti: the issue is that you can't upload the Debian version to ubuntu, you need to update the changelog and then have to sync for next upload
[01:58] <seb128> which is not optimal
[01:58] <pitti> seb128: ah, right
[01:59] <pitti> seb128: so upload -0ubunt1 :-)
[01:59] <seb128> sucking
[01:59] <pitti> that should be autosynced over on the next occation
[01:59] <seb128> I want a sync
[01:59] <seb128> and I want e-d-s accepted to new break evo
[02:00] <seb128> s/new/not/
[02:01] <mdke> ah good
[02:01] <Kamion> seb128: I can do the e-d-s -> main thing
[02:01] <Kamion> seb128: I don't know the runes for doing syncs, though
[02:01] <seb128> Kamion: can you also accept NEW packages?
[02:01] <Kamion> yes
[02:02] <seb128> k, I'll do my e-d-s upload so :)
[02:02] <seb128> libexchange-storage1.2-0 libexchange-storage1.2-dev are the new binaries
[02:02] <Kamion> ok
[02:42] <\sh> seb128, will it solve the add account evo crash bug? your new upload? :)
[02:44] <zul> raid went kablooie again?
[02:45] <fabbione> zul: no... thanks god no...
[02:45] <fabbione> pvscan was reporting a partition as part of an VG
[02:45] <fabbione> when it wasn't
[02:45] <fabbione> dd is your friend :)
[02:46] <fabbione> when you need to clean partitions metadata :)
[02:46] <fabbione> i couldn't really understand how my 20GB harddisk all of sudden reported 37G :P
[02:46] <zul> lol
[02:48] <seb128> \sh: nop, downgrading libglib2.0-0 fixes that
[02:48] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: can you move system-tools-backends-dev to main to fix gnome-applets build?
[02:49] <\sh> seb128, k...
[02:49] <Kamion> system-tools-backends-dev | 1.2.0-4ubuntu1 |        breezy | all
[02:49] <mdz> seb128: I already did
[02:49] <Kamion> seb128: it's already there
[02:49] <mdz> a couple of hours ago
[02:50] <mdz> seb128: ping infinity if it needs attention
[02:53] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: oh, right, that has just changed, thanks
[02:56] <{Seb}> i've just downloaded colony 2 and it is looking good
[02:56] <{Seb}> but after apt-get upgrade, i can't login
[02:56] <pitti> {Seb}: does the gnome startup hang?
[02:56] <{Seb}> yep
[02:56] <pitti> {Seb}: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12276
[02:56] <{Seb}> only on my laptop though
[02:58] <{Seb}> so if i install libesd0, it shoudl solve it?
[02:58] <pitti> either that, or install polypaudio
[02:58] <pitti> (and p-alsa)
[02:58] <{Seb}> what does polypaudio do?
[02:59] <pitti> it's a much better esd 
[02:59] <pitti> however, still a bit unstable
[02:59] <pitti> but testing is highly appreciated
[02:59] <{Seb}> will it become default in breezy>
[02:59] <pitti> that depends on whether it is stable enough
[02:59] <{Seb}> esd seems to cause a lot of problems
[03:00] <{Seb}> what would you recommend? libesd0 or polypaudio?
[03:00] <pitti> I'd recommend to try polypaudio and tell me about any crash you experience :-)
[03:01] <pitti> it runs stable on my laptop for many days now, though
[03:01] <{Seb}> are you by any chance the package maintainer?
[03:01] <pitti> the current one in Ubuntu
[03:01] <{Seb}> but my desktop (Audigy 2) works fine so i'll leave it
[03:01] <pitti> I'm the dude who should sanizite the audio infrastructure
[03:01] <pitti> sanitize, even
[03:02] <{Seb}> will the next esd upload sort out the problem btw?
[03:02] <pitti> well, neither seb128 nor me could identify the real culprit by now
[03:02] <pitti> probably a gtk bug
[03:02] <{Seb}> it only seems to be with some cards though
[03:02] <pitti> seriously, could be a bug in a new gnome library wrt. sound event handling
[03:03] <{Seb}> ah, you are Martin Pitt from the Bug report ;-)
[03:03] <pitti> yes :-)
[03:04] <{Seb}> just jotting down
[03:04] <{Seb}> i need to install polypaudio
[03:04] <{Seb}> and will this remove the nasty stuf
[03:04] <{Seb}> f
[03:04] <pitti> yes, it replaces esound
[03:04] <{Seb}> thanks pitti
[03:04] <pitti> no worries :)
[03:04] <{Seb}> going to try it out
[03:05] <{Seb}> i will report back within the hour!
[03:05] <{Seb}> bye
[03:05] <pitti> thanks
[03:05] <pitti> seb128: btw, any new idea about a sound events gnome lib?
[03:05] <seb128> pitti: libgnome a some sound stuff
[03:17] <mdz> fabbione: do you know anything about the tpm_nsc module?
[03:20] <mdz> fabbione: it's loaded automatically by hotplug on the craptop, and when it is loaded, it breaks networking
[03:20] <mdz> if I blacklist it, it then tries tpm_atmel, which also breaks networking
[03:20] <mdz> if I blacklist all tpm*, it works OK
[03:23] <fabbione> mdz: all i know it's a driver to manage some crypto stuff in hardware
[03:23] <fabbione> mdz: there is a patch in bugzilla that seems to fix some of the issues, backported from that upstream
[03:26] <fabbione> mdz: it won't make 3.3
[03:26] <fabbione> (that i am about to upload)
[03:26] <fabbione> because the patch is quite intrusive and i need to check what's going on upstream
[03:28] <hunger> mdz: Could you try the patch in bugzilla for tpm?
[03:29] <hunger> mdz: That makes the module autodetect the proper chip for me.
[03:29] <mdz> hunger: url?
[03:29] <mdz> I may not have time to build a module to test, but I'll grab the patch in case I do
[03:32] <hunger> mdz: search for tpm... that should get it for you.
[03:35] <hunger> mdz: It worked for me... I asked fabbione to try to include it in the ubuntu kernel. Not sure what he will do about it (the patch does change the ABI of that module).
[03:36] <tseng> mdz: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12065
[03:38] <fabbione> hunger: as i explained to you i need to test it. i have an upload to do before that patch
[03:39] <hunger> fabbione: I did not mean to criticise... I hope that didn't come across as such! I was mearly trying to say that I do not know whether you can include it or not.
[03:40] <fabbione> hunger: not at all... i was explaining on what i was workign and for when it's scheduled
[03:40] <hunger> fabbione: By the way: AFAICT the patch is part of the 2.6.16-rc2 set.
[03:41] <hunger> fabbione: s/2.6.16/2.6.13/
[03:41] <fabbione> hunger: even better :)
[03:44] <spacey> k
[03:45] <{Seb}> seb128: sorry to ask you again but after installing colony 2, i can't add an evolution account and you said to downgrade a package. What was it?
[03:45] <seb128> {Seb}: libglib2.0-0
[03:45] <{Seb}> seb128: thanks
[03:46] <seb128> np
[03:46] <mdz> seb128: libmpcdec promoted
[03:46] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[03:47] <mdz> fabbione: so the SoC guy has not started work on Xen yet?
[03:47] <mdz> fabbione: (you left it as Pending rather than WIP)
[03:47] <fabbione> mdz: he didn't send me any status update yet.. so for me it is still pending
[03:48] <fabbione> mdz: take into account i joined the loop later, because my email address was wrong in the first emails communications and i got them not from the beginning
[03:48] <mdke> the hoary installer will resize ntfs won't it?
[03:50] <Kamion> should do, yes
[03:51] <mdke> Kamion, ok thanks, is there a caveat?
[03:51] <{Seb}> seb128: that works thanks but only temp. 
[03:51] <{Seb}> seb128: i can't leave it there :-(
[03:52] <seb128> ?
[03:52] <{Seb}> seb128: loads of deps. are broken when installing libglib 2.6.3-1
[03:54] <seb128> {Seb}: you can force the install time to make the account and apt-get -f install than
[03:58] <{Seb}> seb128: i have got it forced installed and made my Evolution mail account but I now need to remove 2.6.3-1 because everything in GNOME (from eog to gstreamer) seems to depend on 2.7.0
[03:58] <seb128> {Seb}: upgrade to 2.7.0 again
[04:01] <fabbione> Kamion: i think for tomorrow we will get the first install on P-A-L :)
[04:01] <fabbione> Kamion: now i have everything i need ;)
[04:01] <fabbione> Kamion: /boot and the vg container are created automatically :)
[04:01] <fabbione> Kamion: recipe parsing is the rock :=)
[04:06] <fabbione> actually...
[04:06] <fabbione> i might be able to do it right now ;)
[04:10] <melodie> hello everybody :)
[04:11] <melodie> I'm coming for a question about Backports becoming official repository
[04:11] <melodie> I read several web pages about that
[04:12] <melodie> and this one particularly:
[04:12] <melodie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com//UbuntuBackports
[04:13] <melodie> I didn't find yet an info about authentification key. Does someone know if one is ready or will be ready soon ?
[04:13] <melodie> :)
[04:13] <mdke> hmm that page still shows the agenda for the meeting
[04:13] <mdz> melodie: when the official repository is in place, it will be signed with the usual key
[04:13] <mdke> i don't know if there was a meeting summary published
[04:14] <mdz> I posted a followup to ubuntu-devel at one point
[04:14] <mdz> not a summary as such...though I vaguely recall someone offering to summarize
[04:14] <mdke> yes one of the forum admins did
[04:14] <mdz> perhaps the summary was posted to the forums :-/
[04:15] <melodie> mdz: do someone know when the repository will be ready ?
[04:15] <melodie> I didn't find more info on the Backports forum
[04:15] <melodie> the most recent message I found:
[04:15] <melodie> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-38727.html
[04:17] <mdz> melodie: soon
[04:17] <mdz> the work is in progress
[04:17] <melodie> mdz: does someone know precisely when or too early to say ?
[04:17] <melodie> :)
[04:17] <mdke> looks like maybe the report was intended to go on the wiki page
[04:18] <Keybuk> hmm
[04:18] <Keybuk> did anybody else notice that Ubuntu is now #1 on DW 12 months?
[04:18] <mdke> yeah there was a post to the ML
[04:19] <mdke> totally cool
[04:19] <mdz> Keybuk: sounder noticed
[04:19] <melodie> Keybud: sorry, what is 'DW 12 months' ? :)
[04:19] <mdz> melodie: there will be an announcement when it is finished
[04:19] <Keybuk> kinda cool that it wasn't even public twelve months ago :)
[04:19] <mdke> ;)
[04:20] <mdke> melodie, DW = distrowatch
[04:20] <mdke> its a website
[04:20] <melodie> ok I know distrowatch :)
[04:20] <melodie> I think Ubuntu can become a major distribution
[04:21] <melodie> although it is still young
[04:21] <mdz> mdetect on the craptop takes ages for some reason
[04:22] <melodie> but it is maybe the one distributions that benefits of the best organisation and communication methods :o
[04:23] <melodie> about the officiallisation of Backports, anyhow we are sure it's going to be done aren't we ?
[04:23] <ivoks> ubuntu will be de facto standard :)
[04:23] <melodie> :)
[04:24] <ivoks> i have found backports very bad (depending on libs that aren't in ubuntu; debian's version of libc), so i did some backporting my self...
[04:24] <Kamion> mdke: sometimes has problems with unclean filesystems, otherwise seems ok
[04:27] <melodie> Backports hold many interesting packages, it's a good new that they join the official componants
[04:27] <melodie> then the dependency problems are going to be checked... :)
[04:42] <mdz> melodie: as I already said, the work is in progress.  so, yes, it is going to happen.
[04:43] <fabbione> cya tomorrow guys
[04:50] <ivoks> http://akaimbatman.blogspot.com/2005/06/linux-desktop-distribution-of-future_15.html - not a bad read
[04:50] <ivoks> if anyone interested...
[04:50] <Treenaks> about what?
[04:51] <ivoks> few toughts by a guy who admiers OSX :)
[04:53] <Treenaks> ivoks: is that a gentoo dude? with the "a new --prefix for EVERY program" ?
[04:53] <pitti> *shudder*
[04:53] <ivoks> yeah :))
[04:55] <mdz> daniels: gah, when you changed the name of autodetect_keyboard, you also changed the semantics
[04:56] <mdz> daniels: and in a way that I can't override
[05:02] <mjg59> mdz: Hi
[05:02] <mjg59> mdz: I'll try to get that draft done today
[05:03] <mdz> mjg59: thanks.  daf said you may come down to london on wednesday?
[05:03] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah, it's a possibility. If not then Thursday.
[05:04] <mjg59> Thursday may actually work out easier, but do you have any preferences?
[05:05] <mdz> mjg59: wednesday is preferable, since thursday is my last day here
[05:05] <mdz> (leaving midday friday)
[05:05] <mjg59> Ok, sure
[05:05] <mjg59> I'll need to leave for the evening, but should be able to get a few hours done
[05:05] <mdz> Kamion: so we need to straighten out xorg's autodetect_keyboard
[05:05] <mdz> what we want is for the default on new installs to be true, the default on upgrades to be false, and for preseed-for-reconfigure to work
[05:06] <mdz> Kamion: we also presumably want preseed-for-new-install to work
[05:07] <mdz> I assume what this means is checking the 'seen' flag on new installs
[05:08] <Kamion> typically one ends up setting the seen flag to false after asking the question rather than before
[05:10] <doko_> elmo: please sync java-gcj-compat and python-imaging
[05:11] <mvo> AndyFitz: do you have a idea for #12223 (better icon for update notification messages)?
[05:12] <seb128> pitti: is docbook2x on your list? it's a build-depends for gnome-doc-utils
[05:12] <pitti> yes, it's in the queue
[05:12] <pitti> however, still busy with g-v-m
[05:12] <seb128> should I make a wiki page for it or something?
[05:12] <pitti> if you want to, that'd be great
[05:12] <seb128> pitti: k, I'll
[05:13] <pitti> evaluate debian and upstream bugs, look for the security history (although that shouldn't be an issue), review packages
[05:13] <pitti> it's a particularly uncritical program, so that should be fine
[05:13] <seb128> pitti: I'll base it on the libmpcdec page you made
[05:24] <pitti> :w
[05:24] <pitti> sorry, EFOCUS
[05:24] <seb128> pitti: EWINDOW
[05:24] <seb128> bah :p
[05:25] <pitti> yes, bloody touchpad...
[05:27] <pitti> fabbione: from your kernel changelogs: "monotith: targets" -> monotits? that sounds scary :-)
[05:27] <mdz> seb128: there's a page which explains the review process
[05:28] <mdz> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[05:28] <seb128> mdz: yep, I've just read it, thanks
[05:37] <melodie> I thank mdz and mdke for the informations, before quitting :)
[05:37] <melodie> good end afternoon as see you... 
[05:42] <pitti> seb128: new g-v-m is indeed a nice piece of work, I could drop a lot of patches
[05:43] <pitti> seb128: I'll send the remaining ones to that guy, he seems to be pretty active
[05:43] <seb128> pitti: cool
[05:43] <seb128> pitti: that's a novell guy, they seem to have good motivation to work on the desktop
[05:46] <daniels> mdz: how did the semantics change?
[05:52] <daniels> mdz: ah, just seen the bug mail now
[05:53] <mdz> seb128: what's happening with LaunchpadIntegration?
[05:54] <mdz> the last time we spoke about it, I think you were still deciding on the method to implement the menu extensions.  we need to get started on the implementation quite soon
[05:55] <daniels> mdz: found and fixed the issue
[05:56] <mdz> daniels: covers all the cases in the bug?
[05:56] <mdz> it seems like whenever we fix one of these, we forget about another
[05:56] <mdz> that's why I tried to lay them all out
[05:57] <daniels> mdz: as far as I can tell, it does, yes.  i think the issue was just that we were trying to be way too clever on reconfigure, so I nuked that stanza.  will double-check it in the morning.
[05:57] <mdz> daniels: how do we arrange for it to be true on fresh installs?
[05:58] <mdz> since the template default is false
[06:02] <\sh> can someone sync the latest python-xmpp from debian, please?
[06:03] <Kamion> \sh: ask elmo
[06:03] <\sh> i would push the upload by myself, but it's in main :(
[06:04] <Kamion> and then we'd complain at you, anyway :P
[06:04] <{Seb}> pitti: i installed polypaudio and polypaudio-alsa and now i get a gnome desktop and sound!
[06:04] <{Seb}> pitti: never had sound working before
[06:04] <pitti> {Seb}: yay
[06:04] <\sh> Kamion, *g* sometimes someone has to make a choice, between complaining or running software ,-)
[06:05] <daniels> mdz: use auto_answer for it; it'll not be seen in that case
[06:06] <Kamion> \sh: all the same, please follow the standard procedures
[06:07] <seb128> mdz: most of apps use gtkuimanager, we can start patch apps for stuff using something else. jamesh said he'll give a shot on gtk to determine how easy that would be to change here ... I've that on my todo list for this week
[06:07] <\sh> Kamion, that's why I'm asking :) 
[06:08] <{Seb}> pitti: the log in sound doesn't play though
[06:08] <mdz> seb128: ok, please make it your top priority, thanks
[06:08] <seb128> k
[06:08] <pitti> {Seb}: right, that's a known bug
[06:08] <Kamion> \sh: the standard procedure is to ask elmo
[06:08] <{Seb}> pitti: any other known bugs?
[06:09] <pitti> {Seb}: not to me, apart from the broken sound events you mentioned
[06:09] <\sh> elmo: please sync the latest python-xmpp from debian :)
[06:11] <{Seb}> just wondering, is there any chance of the ubuntu logo becoming the gnome menu icon in breezy?
[06:13] <pitti> seb128: funny, docbook2x includes simple-patchsys.mk but still does inline patching (not a single file in debian/patches)
[06:14] <seb128> pitti: lazy maintainers :p
[06:14] <{Seb}> also, can i put in a request for a newer gmime?
[06:15] <{Seb}> it is currently at 2.1.13 in Ubuntu and the latest version is 2.1.15
[06:15] <{Seb}> next version of beagle requires 2.1.15
[06:15] <tseng> when there is a "next version" of beagle i will update things
[06:15] <{Seb}> thanks tseng
[06:15] <seb128> {Seb}: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10121 for the menu logo
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the wiki page, I approved it
[06:16] <{Seb}> tseng: can i take back what i said before
[06:16] <seb128> pitti: thank you :)
[06:16] <tseng> {Seb}: i dont know what you said before.
[06:16] <{Seb}> tseng: about monodevelop
[06:16] <tseng> {Seb}: sure..
[06:17] <{Seb}> tseng: been working through my mono books and in SUSE, MonoDevelop crashes 5 times
[06:17] <{Seb}> tseng: on breezy, none!
[06:17] <tseng> :)
[06:17] <seb128> bah, when you have uptodate version people start asking before new versions to know if they are going to be packaged ....
[06:18] <pitti> seb128: COTF
[06:18] <seb128> pitti: what? :)
[06:18] <pitti> Crack Of The Future
[06:18] <pitti> the next step after COTD (-day)
[06:18] <seb128> ah ah
[06:23] <pitti> seb128: bah, I'm reading ubuntu-bugs for a while now (just the new ones), it really must suck to be you :-(
[06:24] <seb128> pitti: how long is your while? :)
[06:25] <pitti> seb128: hm, maybe 4 weeks, don't know exactly any more
[06:25] <seb128> oh, k, enough to get a picture
[06:25] <seb128> you are welcome to subscribe to desktop-bugs list if you want :p
[06:28] <pitti> seb128: but isn't that just a subset of u-bugs?
[06:28] <seb128> yep
[06:29] <seb128> that's if you want to follow desktop bugs without reading the whole u-b flood
[06:29] <mdz> Kamion: can you think of a robust way for me to determine the PID of the sshd child which is serving my connection?
[06:29] <mdz> Kamion: if not, would it be reasonable to add an environment variable for that?
[06:29] <pitti> seb128: oh, I just see the new ones, assign the ones to me that fall in my field, and CC to interesting ones
[06:29] <Lathiat> mdz: $SSH_PTY
[06:29] <pitti> seb128: works better for me than even more mail
[06:29] <Lathiat> err, $SSH_TTY, rather
[06:30] <mdz> Lathiat: how can I map that to the PID?
[06:30] <Lathiat> mdz: with grepping of ps or looking through /proc
[06:30] <mdz> ick
[06:31] <Lathiat> i guess the other way would be some way of stepping up parent processes
[06:31] <Lathiat> nfi how to do that
[06:33] <mdz> hmm, I thought the child process was started in its own session, but perhaps now
[06:33] <mdz> not
[06:36] <mdz> looks doable, but an awful mess of a shell one-liner is required in order to do it as an ssh remote command
[06:42] <Kamion> mdz: what for?
[06:46] <infinity> mdz : Uhh, 'ssh host "echo $PPID"' seems to work for me... Unless you want one process up from that.
[06:46] <infinity> (make that 'echo $PPID', even)
[06:48] <Kamion> ssh host 'echo $PPID' is pretty pointless though, seeing as the process in question will immediately go away
[06:48] <mdz> Kamion: LTSP
[06:48] <Kamion> mdz: expand?
[06:48] <mdz> stand by
[06:48] <Kamion> mdz: if I want a new environment variable, I'd want to propose that to upstream, and they'd want a reason
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:02:12 <mdz>   seb128: right, this isn't a problem with gdm logins because it resets the X server
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:02:30 <mdz>   I can't reset the X server because I can't tell when the session has ended
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:02:36 <mdz>   because these processes cause ssh to keep running
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:03:05 <mdz>   I run ssh, wait for it to exit, and then reset the server
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:03:13 <mdz>   gdm runs gnome-session, waits for it to exit, and then resets
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:03:14 <seb128>        right
[06:49] <mdz> Jun 17 14:03:29 <mdz>   gnome-session exits when it exits, but ssh doesn't exit
[06:49] <mdz> until all connections are closed
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: I need to shut down the connection when the command exits, rather than when the X connections close
[06:51] <Kamion> you could use the master/slave stuff and then do -O exit
[06:51] <mdz> master/slave stuff?
[06:51] <Kamion>      -M      Places the ssh client into master mode for connection
[06:51] <Kamion>              sharing.  Refer to the description of ControlMaster in
[06:51] <Kamion>              ssh_config(5) for details.
[06:52] <mdz> interesting
[06:52] <mdz> I don't think that will do what I want, though
[06:52] <Kamion> the actual connection sharing stuff is unnecessary here, but you can use it to provide you with a mechanism to control a running client
[06:52] <mdz> that would only let me control the running client from the local end of the connection, no?
[06:53] <mdz> I could just as easily kill it there, but I can't reliably know when to do that
[06:53] <mdz> which is why I set about looking for a way to do it on the remote end
[06:53] <Kamion> oh, I see
[06:54] <mdz> kill -1 $PPID isn't all that evil
[06:54] <mdz> I didn't think ssh started a shell by default for the command
[06:54] <Kamion> but doesn't the remote end already know when the command has exited?
[06:54] <mdz> yes
[06:54] <Kamion> for example the command could write a line to a FIFO when it's done
[06:55] <Kamion> oh, never mind me
[06:55] <mdz> I think ssh host <command>'; kill -1 $PPID' will do the trick, testing
[06:56] <Kamion> would it be good enough to be able to tell ssh not to wait for forwarded connections to close?
[06:56] <mdz> well, yes
[06:56] <mdz> that's what I really want
[06:56] <Kamion> (which is a more generic long-standing wishlist)
[06:56] <mdz> that seemed like a harder battle to fight
[06:56] <wasabi_> Eclipse ---> Universe? :)
[06:58] <mdz> Jul 04 02:12:26 mdz     elmo: is it possible/reasonable to move things from multiverse to universe via teri, or should I ask you instead?
[06:59] <Kamion> http://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52 is kind of related
[06:59] <Kamion> (other scary things WRT exiting early
[06:59] <Kamion> )
[06:59] <Kamion> not the same thing though, but would need to be considered
[07:00] <mdz> hmm, doesn't seem to work reliably for some reason
[07:00] <mdz> maybe there is some race condition in the signal handling
[07:01] <Kamion> it might be more reliable to kill all the X clients on that display
[07:01] <mdz> it would be more reliable to simply reset the server
[07:01] <mdz> which drops all their connections
[07:02] <mdz> but this probably requires writing an additional C program and installing it on the server side
[07:02] <mdz> which, as it happens, is arch: all at the moment
[07:03] <Kamion> you could just write random data down the X connection until the server crashes
[07:05] <hunger> Kamion: Yes.... and send a copy of the random data to daniel, so that he can fix the bug it triggered. I'm sure he would be delighted to get mailed lots of random data:-)
[07:06] <elmo> mdz: yes, it's fine
[07:07] <elmo> teri's not tied to any specific component, the only problems she has are the "can't overwrite existent symlink" stuff you've run into once or twice before
[07:16] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[07:32] <mxpxpod> seb128: ping
[07:34] <seb128> mxpxpod: pong
[07:34] <mxpxpod> seb128: alright, the rebuild fixed the one relocation error, but I'm getting a new one :)
[07:34] <seb128> oh?
[07:34] <mxpxpod> if I had a faster connection, I'd reinstall all the packages on my system
[07:35] <mxpxpod> also, I'm having problems with X
[07:36] <mxpxpod> wait, there's a update... let me get those and I'll see if those fix my X problems
[07:37] <ivoks> xcompmgr and transset are really nice feauters :(
[07:37] <ivoks> doh.. wrong channel :)
[07:39] <mdz> daniels: what is the correct way to determine when it is safe to start a client for the X server you just started a bit earlier?
[07:39] <mdz> daniels: it seems that if I do it too early, it can't connect.  I've added an arbitrary delay of a few seconds and that works
[07:48] <mxpxpod> seb128: hmm
[07:49] <seb128> ?
[07:49] <mxpxpod> seb128: X still won't start for me...
[07:49] <seb128> that's a bug for daniels :p
[07:50] <schweeb> mxpxpod: think it's a symlink problem
[07:50] <schweeb> from what I've heard
[07:50] <mxpxpod> schweeb: ah, ok
[07:51] <Riddell> seb128: what's the status of default folders for users (Documents, Music etc)?
[07:51] <torkel> mxpxpod: you can probably work around it with: ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X
[07:52] <mxpxpod> torkel: yeah, just figured that out :)
[07:52] <mxpxpod> thanks, though
[07:52] <seb128> elmo: glib2.0 (experimental) clearlooks gtk-doc (incoming) syncs please
[07:53] <seb128> Riddell: no move on that afaik
[07:54] <mxpxpod> torkel: yeah, that worked... thanks :)
[07:54] <Riddell> seb128: any ide
[07:54] <seb128> Riddell: somebody need to pick a package name and a list of folder and to mail the list about it probably 
[07:54] <torkel> mxpxpod: np
[07:54] <Riddell> seb128: any idea which spec that was part of?
[07:55] <seb128> Riddell: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FileManagerImprovement
[07:56] <Riddell> seb128: thanks
[07:56] <seb128> np
[07:57] <mxpxpod> seb128: wanna see the new relocation error?
[07:59] <seb128> mxpxpod: yep
[07:59] <mxpxpod> /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16: R_PPC_REL24 relocation at 0x0ffa7b58 for symbol `XextRemoveDisplay' out of range
[08:00] <seb128> still wnck ...
[08:00] <mxpxpod> yessir
[08:00] <seb128> wait for jbailey :p
[08:00] <mxpxpod> I noticed that libwnck17 just went in
[08:00] <seb128> yep
[08:00] <seb128> time for diner here, bbl
[08:01] <mxpxpod> maybe (crosses fingers) that will solve stuff when everything is converted
[08:01] <mxpxpod> seb128: have a nice dinner
[08:01] <seb128> thanks
[08:04] <terrex> where can i read a tutorial for writing makefiles
[08:04] <terrex> ?
[08:05] <mxpxpod> terrex: lidn.sf.net
[08:05] <terrex> mxpxpod: thx
[08:06] <mxpxpod> terrex: you can learn a lot of stuff there :)
[08:06] <jp> hi all :) the upgrade of some x packages broken my x server :D cool, why you don't try them before upload? =P
[08:06] <jp> tday opgrade :)
[08:06] <mxpxpod> jp: do you know how to fix it?
[08:07] <jp> mxpxpod: no dude :(
[08:07] <mxpxpod> jp: try this: sudo ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X
[08:08] <jp> thanks mxpxpod :)
[08:08] <mxpxpod> jp: thank torkel 
[08:08] <mxpxpod> he showed me
[08:09] <jp> hehe thanks torkel :P
[08:09] <torkel> jp: np
[08:10] <torkel> jp: ...as long as you don't hang me next time X fails when upgrading, because the changed link makes anything else to break :-)
[08:10] <mxpxpod> torkel: it shouldn't break anything else
[08:11] <torkel> mxpxpod: and ypu are willing to bet on that? It is X we are talking about :-)
[08:11] <torkel> s/ypu/you
[08:11] <mxpxpod> torkel: haha, good point... I retract my last statement
[08:12] <jp> torkel ;) :P
[08:14] <jp> /var/cache/apt/archives/libx11-6_1%3a6.2.1+cvs.20050615-4_i386.deb
[08:14] <jp> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[08:14] <jp> uhmm :$
[08:15] <jp> I upgrade with reinstall on my other pc running breezy too :$
[08:15] <chol> 3~
[08:15] <chol> oops
[08:18] <jp> sudo apt-get install --reinstall libx11-6 xlibs-data
[08:18] <jp> I just didi it :)
[08:18] <jp> jeje
[08:18] <jp> now let's compile gnome :p
[08:33] <calc> is wpa-supplicant going to be integrated with network manager for breezy?
[08:35] <jp> torkel the ln didn't work :(
[08:35] <jp> when I startx says /etc/X11/x isn't executable :/
[08:36] <calc> it should be a symlink to the X executable
[08:37] <hunger> jp: IIRC startx does not like symlinks.
[08:37] <calc> jp: on my system its actually /usr/bin/X11/Xorg not /usr/bin/Xorg
[08:37] <hunger> calc: Are you on breezy?
[08:37] <calc> hunger: yea
[08:37] <jp> I did ln -sf /usr/bin/Xorg /etc/X11/X
[08:38] <hunger> calc: It is /usr/bin here... strange.
[08:38] <jp> I'll try what you say calc 
[08:38] <calc> hunger: hmm i haven't updated since yesterday
[08:38] <calc> jp: well just look to see where that binary is on your system to link it properly
[08:39] <jp> calc: thank you dude
[08:39] <jp> ;)
[08:39] <jp> now it works :D
[08:39] <jp> :P
[08:39] <{Seb}> has anyone got Network Manager to work on Breezy?
[08:39] <calc> hmm there is another xorg update since i lasted updated my system
[08:42] <shaya> sigh, /usr/X11R6/bin/X isn't installed suid, which means startx doesnt work
[08:42] <calc> its suid here
[08:43] <calc> xserver-xorg 6.8.2-33
[08:43] <shaya> it's suid for me now too
[08:43] <shaya> because I made it
[08:43] <calc> i didn't change anything
[08:43] <shaya> 6.8.2-34
[08:43] <calc> hmm upgrading to that now
[08:44] <calc> yep my suid bit went away
[08:44] <shaya> :(
[08:44] <shaya> filed a bug
[08:44] <shaya> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12397
[08:44] <shaya> and gdm's been broken for ages for me
[08:44] <shaya> hence why I see this startx
[08:44] <shaya> anyways
[08:45] <shaya> off to see batman begins in imax
[08:45] <shaya> later
[08:45] <calc> gdm works for me, but i just installed this laptop yesterday
[08:45] <shaya> hmm
[08:45] <shaya> maybe should try again
[08:45] <shaya> but not now
[08:45] <shaya> movie beckons
[08:47] <wasabi_> Is there a way to create a symlink using a full path, but actually have it stored with a relative path?
[08:47] <wasabi_> Build-script related. I don't want to be ln -s .../.../../../../../blah
[08:47] <wasabi_> But rather ln -s $(FULLPATH)/file
[08:48] <doko_> wasabi_: policy is to use relative symlinks
[08:48] <carstenh> .oO(why not try it and be surpriced that it works?)
[08:48] <wasabi_> doko_, I know. I want them stored relative... but I want to use a build-script variable to create them.
[08:48] <carstenh> .oO(hmm, policy)
[08:48] <Lathiat> so make your build script figure out how many .. you need
[08:48] <Lathiat> add one each makefile iteration? :)
[08:48] <wasabi_> Lathiat, =(
[08:49] <wasabi_> I'd like ln to figure it out for me haha
[08:49] <doko_> use dh_link
[08:50] <wasabi_> I had thought dh_link wouldn't take absolute paths.
[08:50] <doko_> it does, and makes relative link when necessary
[08:56] <wasabi_> I just basically thinkg ../../../../ looks ugly and unreadable.
[08:58] <daniels> guh, -EMDZ
[09:02] <Yann2> hi
[09:04] <Burgundavia> Yann2, that would be a forum issue, and they have there own channel #ubuntuforums
[09:04] <Yann2> thx :)
[09:04] <Yann2> bye ! :)
[09:16] <doko> elmo: please could you install OOo2 build-deps on davis/breezy?
[09:22] <siretart> wasabi_: impressive work on eclipse! running great here!
[09:22] <wasabi_> Super. Thanks!
[09:22] <wasabi_> The #classpath guys desearve more credit than I, however,
[09:22] <siretart> wasabi_: just a minor "tweak", in Help->About the build id is @build@ ;)
[09:23] <wasabi_> Yeah. I know. ;)
[09:23] <siretart> ok :)
[09:24] <siretart> wasabi_: why is the default workspace place ~/.eclipse/workspace? Is this new at upstream since eclipse 3.1?
[09:24] <wasabi_> No. It's sort of something I need to think about more.
[09:24] <siretart> it's not a real problem, but I'm used to work with ~/workspace. just a habit
[09:24] <wasabi_> Eclipse tries to put hte workspace in the current directory.
[09:25] <siretart> ah, ic
[09:25] <wasabi_> And I cd into .eclipse before launching it.
[09:25] <wasabi_> And I don't like ~/workspace since it's ambiguous.
[09:25] <elmo> doko: done
[09:25] <jordi> elmo: too bad you were in Leeds :|
[09:25] <wasabi_> Actually, I think the entire workspace idea sucks.
[09:25] <wasabi_> But the worksapce is where the per-user settings go.
[09:25] <jordi> mdz nearly got me drunk
[09:26] <ivoks> :)
[09:26] <wasabi_> So... what I'd *like* is for the user to never be asked about the workspace.
[09:26] <wasabi_> For Eclipse to just open, properly.
[09:26] <wasabi_> But, when you create a new project, for it to attempt to create the project outside the workspace by default.
[09:26] <wasabi_> Or open an existing project and it works as normal, etc.
[09:27] <siretart> that would really be nice, but I this does not integrate cleanly in a windows environment, which upstream seems to be concerned about
[09:27] <siretart> :/
[09:27] <wasabi_> How so?
[09:27] <wasabi_> ~/workspace isn't defautl for Windows.
[09:27] <siretart> no?
[09:27] <siretart> never worked with eclipse on windows, maybe I'm talking bullshit ;)
[09:27] <elmo> jordi: yeah, sucky timing
[09:28] <wasabi_> Well, first off ~ doesn't exist on Windows. ;)
[09:28] <wasabi_> I think Eclipse creates it in My Documents, actually.
[09:28] <wasabi_> It's still compatible in the same way. You can alter teh worksapce to be anywhere.
[09:29] <siretart> wasabi_: I tried to "run" a hello world from eclipse, but I keep getting this error dialog "An error occured. See error log for more details". Is this a known bug or a misconfiguration on my side?
[09:29] <wasabi_> Nope. I don't know it.
[09:29] <wasabi_> Let me give it a go, hold on.
[09:29] <wasabi_> I don't think I've run anything yet.
[09:29] <wasabi_> HEHE
[09:30] <ivoks> i did perl :)
[09:30] <jordi> elmo: next time. I hear your living room is the data centre now ;)
[09:30] <wasabi_> Yeah I see it.
[09:31] <wasabi_> Looks like a classpath issue.
[09:32] <wasabi_> XML parsing.
[09:32] <wasabi_> Super
[09:32] <doko> elmo: thanks
[09:32] <doko> hmm, bad time for a dist-upgrade ... no atheros driver in 2.6.12, and the gnome-session doesn't start.
[09:33] <ivoks> ? it does :)
[09:35] <siretart> wasabi_: if I find further issues, shall I ping you on irc, or do you prefer email? or some other bug tracking system?
[09:38] <wasabi_> bugs.
[09:39] <wasabi_> I haven't looked at malone enough yet to understand it.
[09:39] <wasabi_> I wish it was just in bugzilla. =/
[09:39] <siretart> bugs. ?
[09:40] <stratus> fabbione, what's up with linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-3-686 ? linux-meta build a related metapackage but i can't see the package itself around, can you?
[09:40] <stratus> daniels, around?
[09:40] <daniels> l-r-m for 2.6.12 isn't ready yet, and it will take a little while
[09:41] <Treenaks> daniels: people will love you for it
[09:42] <stratus> daniels, thanks i just need the updated ipw2200 firmware, i'll do it manually now.
[09:42] <daniels> i'm doing what I can
[09:42] <daniels> stratus: er, I didn't think that was in l-r-m
[09:43] <daniels> no, it's not
[09:43] <daniels> the only firmware in there is for acx1xx
[09:43] <daniels> ipw2x00 stuff is in linux-source
[09:43] <stratus> was it moved after hoary ?
[09:43] <spotter> daniels you here?
[09:44] <daniels> stratus: no
[09:44] <daniels> spotter: sup
[09:44] <stratus> daniels, packages.ubuntu.com is lying to me so
[09:44] <spotter> calc experienced same suid problem
[09:44] <spotter> maybe dpkg related?
[09:44] <stratus> daniels, i'm talking about files sitting at /lib/hotplug/firmware the ipw2200* ones
[09:45] <trukulo> hi ppl
[09:45] <Lathiat> stratus: they are in linux-image-2.6.12
[09:45] <daniels> stratus: i've maintained l-r-m since 2.6.8.1 days, and I don't remember ipw2x00 ever being in there, largely because it was already in the core kernel package
[09:46] <Lathiat> stratus: dpkg -S /lib/hotplug/firmware/ipw-2.3
[09:47] <stratus> Lathiat, i found thanks
[09:47] <daniels> spotter: i dunno, sorry
[09:47] <daniels> spotter: but yeah, xserver-common has always had it suid, and I've never touched that bit of the code
[09:48] <spotter> I'l look again when i get back from this movie
[09:49] <spotter> irc from cell way too painful
[10:03] <doko> hmm, somebody knows, if libnss-dev can be built from the firefox source instead of mozilla?
[11:06] <Mitario> lo everyone
[11:06] <jp> ol
[11:10] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[11:24] <jp> now I upgraded and x crashed again
[11:24] <jp> ;)
[11:24] <jp> now it says: fatal server error, unable to connect to x server =P
[11:54] <jp> now it says: fatal server error, unable to connect to x server =P