[12:07] it would work just as well in the kde Makefile [12:08] it's more practical than logical [12:09] is there no common makefile? [12:10] not at the moment [12:11] ok i've updated the wiki page [12:12] hmm... the samples aren't perfect yet... [12:12] jeff@cloud:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide $ make sg [12:13] whoops sorry [12:13] will do [12:14] and maybe webbrowser should be two words [12:15] pah === mdke slaps jeffsch [12:15] done [12:15] i waited just the right amount of time, eh? [12:15] now there's one more change... [12:16] oops, never mind [12:17] mdke: did you do make sg on your system? [12:17] yes [12:17] looks great [12:18] i was thinking we should have the stylesheets in the repo [12:18] i build em nicely on this system (Ubuntu) but not on systems with different addresses for the stylesheets [12:18] it is: gnome/default.css [12:19] i mean the xml->html stylesheets [12:20] the customization stylesheets are, but the rest are standard location [12:20] if you have docbook installed, then you have the stylesheets installed [12:21] customization layer stylesheets are in gnome/libs [12:21] jeffsch, but for example on my gentoo system the stylesheets are in a different location, so the builds don't work [12:21] i smell an XML_CATALOG issue... [12:22] [10:46] jeffsch: you may want to update the ubuntu XML_CATALOG for ubuntu stuff [12:22] its just because the stylesheets are referred to by location, so when the location changes the build doesn't work [12:22] i don't know much about it tho [12:22] i don't think it is because of that [12:22] its the same for froud's stuff iirc [12:23] so the fault is yours for using gentoo then. :) [12:23] yes [12:23] but the same applies to suse and other stuff [12:23] actually what am I saying [12:23] everyone here uses Ubuntu [12:23] we don't need the stylesheets in our repo [12:24] i suppose if you want to build ubuntu docs on non ubuntu machines, you gotta deal with stuff [12:24] yup [12:24] so why did you ask if I'd done make sg earlier? [12:25] to see it the stylesheet customization works on other machines [12:25] it wasn't working until the other day [12:25] ah [12:25] the css is the same as for froud's stuff with a pale draft thing on the background [12:26] i got it working on mine, updated the repos, and etc etc [12:26] we should get some ubuntu bling in [12:26] maybe henrik will do it [12:26] yeah, i just copied the default.css from the kde folders [12:26] yeah ubuntu bling is the next step [12:26] hey guess what... take a look at gnome/Makefile [12:27] it looks like froud added stuff so stylesheets are found on SUSE machines [12:27] maybe you could do the same for gentoo [12:27] good plan [12:28] so jeffsch you have learnt how to convert html and such? [12:28] /html/to html [12:28] you mean xslt? [12:29] i dunno [12:29] but you think you might be able to take care of producing make targets for the gnome stuff? [12:29] you mean like make ug for user guide, etc? [12:29] that sort of thing [12:30] already done. [12:30] try it [12:30] sure, but in future too [12:30] yeah. hopefully there won't be much to change in the future [12:30] hope so [12:30] just sort the css i guess [12:31] yeah. a new css with ubuntu bling would be nice [12:31] we can ask henrik [12:32] yeah. that stuff prolly already exists [12:32] oh yeah [12:32] just need to merge it with the current css you and froud are using right? [12:33] hopefull, just have to replace default.css [12:33] cool [12:34] for draft we could use the theme from the wiki css draft page [12:37] mdke: did you apply njal's patch? [12:39] jeffsch, yep [12:39] he wrote and said he appreciated the feedback and would work on it [12:41] ok. his writing style is pretty cool. but, alas, we are writing tech docs... [12:42] yep === robitaille robitaille is finally here, 60 mins after starting his IRC client; hi mdke! [12:42] i referred him to the styleguide but also said that the styleguide didn't have a lot of stuff on grammar/style yet so to use the links provided [12:43] hey robitaille :) === jeffsch thinks robitaille needs to upgrade his 486 [12:43] hello again. I started irrsi in a window, then totally forgot about it while doing other stuff [12:44] ;) [12:47] hmm [12:48] looks like mediawiki isn't packaged for sarge [12:48] oh, or ubuntu [01:09] ok i've found the gnome ug jeffsch [01:10] its big and v complicated [01:10] is it split across a bunch of files? [01:10] yeah looks like it [01:11] i'm still checking out the enormous cvs right now [01:11] all the languages have their own screenshots [01:11] if we use the gnome ug we should figure out a way to use the translations... [01:11] ;) [01:13] will it be compatible with rosetta? [01:13] boh [01:13] i have no idea how they organise their translations [01:14] gnome don't like rosetta because it provides no means of pushing translations upstream that by rights should be done originally in rosetta [01:15] hmmm... it's getting more and more complicated [01:15] don't worry [01:15] most of the translations are probably years old [01:15] the italian ones were committed 2 years ago [01:16] ditto fr [01:17] yikes! it must make life a little difficult for new user trying to learn gnome desktop [01:17] yep [01:18] so what do you think we should do with this gnome ug [01:18] jeffsch, ^^ [01:18] add in the complication that ubuntu desktop is slightly different than gnome desktop [01:19] i think i need to read it more before knowing for sure what to do [01:19] in the end, we should do whatever is best for ubuntu users [01:19] yeah [01:20] jeffsch, i might put it in svn and we can look at it and then discuss at next meeting [01:20] what do you think? [01:20] sounds good [01:20] just the en ;) [01:20] i'll put it in teamstuff [01:20] yeah. and gnome calls en C for some reason [01:20] yes [01:22] i think we should worry less about what we can push upstream, and more about the ubuntu user experience [01:23] agreed [01:26] jeffsch, should I include the screenshots in my commit? might make a quite large [01:27] i would include them. people need to see that they are not ubuntu [01:28] ouch ok here goes [01:29] gnome docs try to avoid screenshots anyway, so it shouldn't be too large [01:29] at least in theory :) [01:29] ok here it comes [01:37] phew === mdke strokes his upload connection [01:38] hmm... not too bad... only 5M [01:38] heh [01:38] takes a while on 128 upload [01:39] changelog says last update was 2004-08-27 [01:40] but nothing substantial since 2004-04-20 [01:41] last cvs commit was 3 months ago [01:41] i think all he did was probably to put his name on the top and change it to gnome 2.10 ;) [01:41] that's WRONG man [01:43] hey... there's two pdf files in there for a total of 2.8M [01:45] sorry [01:45] i'll remove em shall I? [01:45] one is gnome 2.2 and the other gnome 2.4 [01:45] not your fault! [01:45] yeah, remove em [01:46] cuts the download in half [01:46] done [01:47] thanks for pointing that out [01:57] jeffsch, there is a lot of good stuff in there [02:04] yeah, there is. [02:05] how much work you think it would take to make it suitable for ubuntu (before integrating the stuff we already have in the current ug)? [02:05] i have no idea [02:06] i'm thinking quite a bit [02:06] but your method would inspire a better structure for the finished document, our userguide is not well structured right now [02:06] it might be a good learning experience to go through line by line, making sure the menus all point to the right place, and so on [02:07] people would learn the docbook tags [02:07] it depends really on whether anyone is willing to put the work in [02:07] it would be tedious, that's for sure [02:07] btw did you ever incorporate the tags from gtaylor into the styleguide? [02:07] not yet [02:16] i gotta run. cya [02:16] bye mate === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~user@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco wonders what's with the huge update on svn this weekend [03:49] hmm its all kde [03:49] the beginnings of a vendor drop... [03:57] hi jsgotangco [03:57] good weekend? [03:58] aye we just arrived last night [03:58] so i wasn't able to check out the happenings over in ubuntu land [03:58] seems the natives have been quiet lately [03:58] arrived where? [03:59] oh we went home to my folks' old farm we haven't been going there lately [04:00] nice [04:00] how does one do an xinclude? [04:00] to include part of another document [04:01] hmm [04:02] maybe it isn't possible with another document that isn't in our repo lol [04:03] i think you have to declare it first in the DTD [04:04] i wanted to include the update-manager in the userguide [04:04] ahhh you've been busy [04:05] BTW [04:05] how was edubuntu [04:06] (i almost forgot about it) [04:06] it was really cool [04:06] i met some cool people [04:06] and learnt some interesting things [04:06] who was there? [04:07] mdz, mark, henrik, ogra from ubuntu [04:07] colin applegate and paul flint [04:07] ah so colin was there [04:07] (don't know paul flint) [04:07] he's an incredibly loud american [04:08] aren't they all [04:08] some people from guadalinex, skolelinux and some uk folk in education [04:08] *grin* [04:08] heh colin was the opposite [04:08] guadalinex..hrmmm... [04:08] let me guess [04:08] it is an incredible project [04:08] javier carranza? [04:08] they have 200,000 installs on school computers [04:08] that wasn't the guy i think [04:09] did you get to talk to mdz [04:09] a little [04:09] ahh [04:09] i was really blown away by him [04:09] and mark too [04:09] is ogra leading the project [04:09] i believe so [04:09] he was also real nice [04:10] ah also Jane was there [04:10] JaneW! [04:10] err so what happened? [04:10] i only went on the first day [04:11] it was a lot of brainstorming and people talking about their experiences with school based projects [04:11] pretty interesting [04:11] you'll find stuff on the wiki, i believe Jane was putting it up as she took notes [04:12] hmm ok [04:12] did elkner come? [04:13] nope he didn't make it [04:14] oh too bad he's a really niceguy [04:15] anyway i was really impressed by the Ubuntu guys [04:15] they are very smart and also friendly [04:15] the actual conference was a little disorganised but in general it was probably quite useful to all concerned, at least on day 1 [04:18] oh edubuntu was incredibly specific [04:18] we were a riot in sydney [04:18] im getting lost in our svn [04:18] hrrmm [04:19] whereabouts? [04:19] or i forgot [04:20] jordi was there [04:20] i think that is everyone [04:21] jordi! [04:21] well i haven't been doing any useful svn stuff lately [04:22] that's why i guess i am lost [04:22] i have been looking into scrollkeeper [04:22] oh awesome [04:22] how is it going? [04:22] oh its like a jungle out there [04:23] its basically similar to comparing two tables [04:23] except the other table is incredibly overflowing with stuff [04:25] btw I emailed the -devel and -users lists reporting on the meeting, just to try and keep the ubuntu world up to date on our group [04:25] hopefully we can attract more contributors [04:25] i should have done that before, but that thanks [04:25] np [04:26] hmmm great hoary doesn't detect my old hp printer [04:26] i guess it doesnt like usb printers yet === mpt [~mpt@203-167-186-120.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:39] hmm [04:43] its strange everytime you send to the list, it requires authorization [04:45] me? [04:45] that is because I am thick and keep sending from the wrong address [04:46] i keep cancelling the posts though as soon as I realise [04:46] so you shouldn't have to moderate them [04:47] yeah well it still informs me anyway [04:47] it won't happen again, i've subscribed both addresses now [04:47] oh [04:47] i don't set that for ubuntu-it [04:50] hey we've made no 1 on distrowatch for last 12 months now too [04:50] awesome [04:50] not bad for a distro that is yet to reach 1 year old [04:51] quite [04:52] ok bed time [04:52] 4 am [04:54] hmmm an underwater volcano is erupting near iwo jima [04:54] nice [04:54] must be Godzilla === Trace [~Trace@61.149.156.41] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:21] Hello, I am very intrested in hardware detection of Ubuntu, can someone tell me where i can find such doc? === ealden [~ealden@219.90.92.176] has joined #ubuntu-doc === judax [~judax@ppp-69-148-18-161.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~sean@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:45] African Greetings [08:47] froud, hi [08:47] waz up jsgotangco [08:47] nothing much, sorry i'm not doing that much svn work lately, i'm currently lost at it, but i'm doing stuff on scrollkeeper [08:48] scrollkeeper, why? [08:49] i'm digging at the stuff not being used at all or disorganized [08:49] ok whatever tickles your fancy [08:50] have you seen the new kde system settings [08:50] replaces kcontrol in kubuntu [08:50] yeah [08:50] im totally lost at it [08:50] atm [08:51] http://lnix.net/~froud/kquickguide/C/ch03s07.html [08:52] why lost? [08:52] what KDE is this? [08:52] KDE 3.5? [08:53] Kubuntu Breezy [08:53] KControl is dropped for kde-systemsettings [08:53] it is not part of standard kde [08:54] hmm probably because i haven't been using kubuntu lately, reason why i am lost [08:55] no I had to compile it and install it, Kubuntu breezy is not ready yet. [08:55] Riddell did a good job with it, I think [08:56] hmmm isn't it too early to do the compiling thing and breezy-fying the doc [08:57] yes and no. Things like this need to start early or we will not have enough time later [08:57] as much as i'd like to do more stuff (which i believe im capable of), im so limited with hardware atm [08:58] I use removable hard drives on some of the lab machines [08:58] well school run c u laters === froud [~froud@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:24] welcome back [09:25] yep [09:25] canged hosts [09:25] changed === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:28] ahh i thought you were in a school run [09:28] yes it was [09:29] then I leave my laptop and the louge and move to my home office [09:33] thats nice === _froud_ [~froud@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~guest1@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sigurdga [~sigurd@45.80-203-115.nextgentel.com] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === rob^ [~guest1@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:52] _froud_, thanks for the email [12:52] which of the two solutions would you consider to be more desirable? [12:52] sounds like vendor drop is probably more satisfactory [12:53] <_froud_> vendor drop in vendpr/gnome/ [12:53] vendor/gnome/ [12:54] yeah [12:54] froud, what did you do with njal's patch? i had already applied it yesterday [12:55] did he send another? [12:55] Hmm yes there was another [12:55] I applied it [12:55] it's all deletes [12:56] no [12:56] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2005-July/000882.html [12:56] --- userguide.xml(revision 1341) [12:56] +++ userguide.xml(working copy) [12:56] @@ -1980,6 +1980,15 @@ [12:56] directorys (see above), folder newfolder should be [12:56] in the list. [12:56] [12:56] + [12:56] + [12:56] + Change Directorys: - cd (/directory/location) [12:56] + This is a simple enough command cd (Change Directory) typing cd on it's own will take you to your home (/home/yourusername) directory, sometimes known as ~. To get to the new folder you created type cd ~/newfolder (remember that ~ is a shortcut, nothing wrong with shortcuts). [12:57] + [12:57] + [12:57] + Remove Directorys: - rm -rf (directoryname) [12:57] no need to do massive paste's like that! [12:57] + Again the command is simple, to remove the newfolder type cd ~ (just to get you outside of the directory before you delete it) now type rm -rf newfolder, how do you know it is gone? Simple, type your prefered command for viewing directorys, is newfolder there? It shouldnt be. Congratulations you have used the basic file management functions in the terminal. [12:57] + [12:57] [12:57] [12:57] [12:57] I'm talking about a totally different revision [12:57] revision 1347 [12:57] all that section above is deleted now [12:58] check the link i posted above, it shows the revision [12:59] i think what has happened is that you applied the patch that i had already applied [01:01] Argh! when you patch send mail to list otherwise we will collide [01:01] i did [01:01] just role back my version [01:01] i'm pretty sure [01:01] I did not get message [01:01] perhaps I sent it accidentally only to njal [01:02] hmm [01:02] how does on roll back? [01:02] on/one [01:04] froud, still here? [01:06] mdke: read http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/svn-book.html#svn-ch-4 [01:06] search for "Undoing Changes" [01:06] bit busy just now [01:07] working on deadlines [01:07] cool thanks [01:12] froud, ok I've rolled back [01:12] sorry about that [01:12] cheer now you know how :-) [01:12] no my fault I should have checked [01:12] both our faults [01:12] if you have time later you have to teach me vendor drops [01:12] Ok I won't argue ;-) [01:13] but good if you know about merging and branching [01:13] helps if other learn this stuff [01:13] yes I've bookmarked that document === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.63.70] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:32] http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/update-manager/help/C/ <-- froud is that the right one? [01:32] yep [01:33] has last patch from jeffsch [01:34] wicked am adding to svn now [01:36] oh no i'm not [01:36] vendor is outside trunk? [01:36] yes [01:36] you will find vendor/gnome [01:36] bugger [01:37] i only have trunk right now [01:37] checkout vendor relative to your trunk [01:37] svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/vendor vendor [01:37] from where do i type that? [01:38] home? [01:38] where is you ubuntu-docs/ [01:38] in home [01:38] so cd ubuntu-docs [01:39] when you ls you should see trunk/ [01:39] then do svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/vendor vendor [01:39] no when I ls I see the contents of trunk [01:39] btw when you bringin the doc dont bring in any .cvs folders [01:39] i won't [01:39] and use svn import not svn commit [01:39] ok [01:39] oh dear [01:40] you have trunk in ubuntu-docs [01:40] yes [01:40] Hmm [01:40] because that is what it says on the StepbyStepRepositories page [01:40] yes [01:40] i just followed that [01:40] svn for dummies [01:40] not that you are a dummy [01:40] fair enough [01:41] how come vendor isn't in trunk? [01:41] make a new folder for your docs [01:41] then [01:41] ok done [01:41] svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos {thatfolder} [01:42] that will give you branches/ trunk/ tags/ and vendor/ [01:42] its big [01:42] i bet [01:42] ok will do that [01:42] but that is everything to do with the project [01:42] how come vendor isn't in trunk tho? [01:43] that's the way svn repos's are structured [01:43] you should read more from svn book :-) [01:43]