[02:39] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
[02:42] <jsgotangco> salut
[02:56] <jsgotangco> jdub_, ping?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> brb
[03:39] <Burgundavia> jdub, jsgotangco is looking for yo
[03:44] <jsgotangco> (if you're not too busy)
[03:48] <jsgotangco> oh i have immigration papers being processed actually
[03:49] <jsgotangco> i wanted to ask jdub if its too much of a task to edit the main page of yelp since i found out how it works last night
[03:49] <jsgotangco> (if it would be pointless since we always update stuff from upstream, it might bork other links)
[03:50] <jsgotangco> (the yelp->scrollkeeper relationship that is)
[03:52] <jsgotangco> editing toc.xml is easy, the hard part is actually getting all the current stuff organized in a logical way
[03:52] <jdub> jsgotangco: we already did it for hoary
[03:53] <jdub> jsgotangco: but for breezy, a document will be displayed instead (most likely)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> oh ok
[03:53] <jdub> so if that happens, not sure there's much point
[03:53] <jsgotangco> so i guess i'll just scrap this then
[03:53] <jdub> but if it doesn't, we'll have to do similar hacks that we did with hoary would be fine
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:54] <jsgotangco> my toc.xml atm is very different from the hoary default
[03:55] <jdub> if they're rad changes, may as well play with them now just in case
[03:56] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:57] <jsgotangco> the mix of html and xml docs made the look so inconsistent
[03:57] <jsgotangco> but i guess that can't be helped
[03:58] <jdub> not immediately
[03:58] <jdub> but plenty of those html docs come from docbook source
[03:58] <jdub> once we've analysed what we ship, we can start shipping upstream's pure docbook instead
[03:59] <jsgotangco> jdub, does that mean we can choose what docs will be kept and docs that will be deprecated?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> (in terms of relevance)
[04:14] <jdub> we can't already?
[04:18] <jsgotangco> well i just thought you guys want the whole thing at the moment as is and just organise them...
[04:19] <jsgotangco> but weeding out stuff not useful will be very much welcome imo
[07:41] <froud> African Greetings
[07:42] <jsgotangco> hi froud 
[07:55] <froud> jsgotangco: howzit dude
[07:55] <froud> coffee, morning news and irc chat :-)
[07:56] <froud> geeze these dudes in Endinburgh are heavy
[07:58] <jsgotangco> hrh
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i've been fine
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i just came from lunch
[07:59] <jsgotangco> i've been dabbling with the yelp front page toc.xml
[07:59] <jsgotangco> learning how it works with scrollkeeper
[07:59] <jsgotangco> it may not be much of use if the frontpage would be a document
[08:00] <froud> no it will be of use
[08:00] <jsgotangco> if we still use toc.xml
[08:00] <froud> just because we ship html does not mean that we will not register with scrollkeeper
[08:00] <jsgotangco> good point
[08:00] <froud> and knowing how to change the toc is helpful
[08:01] <jsgotangco> oh changin the toc is incredibly easy
[08:01] <froud> sure it must be, just no docs to explain it
[08:01] <jsgotangco> i guess the biggest challenge is how everything gets interwined
[08:01] <froud> yes
[08:02] <jsgotangco> i noticed that even the doc you made got lost in the links
[08:02] <jsgotangco> for hwdb
[08:02] <jsgotangco> although its ubuntu-specific
[08:03] <jsgotangco> everything is in /usr/share/yelp and sometimes traverse to /usr/share/scrollkeeper for the toc entries
[08:03] <froud> yes, but I think that hwdb does have a help button
[08:03] <jsgotangco> and currently the ubuntu-specifc docs are declared as yelp chunks
[08:04] <froud> jsgotangco: have to found out why scrolkeeper wont support docbook 4.3
[08:04] <froud> last time we tried it, it worked only with 4.1.2
[08:04] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper or yelp itself?
[08:04] <froud> sk
[08:04] <jsgotangco> hmm
[08:04] <jsgotangco> im not so sure of the relation, sk has its own syntax in a way
[10:36] <jsgotangco> hmm why does RHEL's yelp have an index and ours don't?
[10:36] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[10:36] <jsgotangco> its an incredibly old version of Yelp
[10:36] <jsgotangco> (2.2.3)
[10:37] <jsgotangco> at least it can search through titles (doh)
[10:45] <mpt> it can?
[10:45] <mpt> why didn't anyone merge that upstream :-(
[10:45] <jsgotangco> its an incredibly old version
[10:45] <jsgotangco> but its strange indeed
[10:46] <jsgotangco> editing the frontpage isn't really complicated to begin with, i discovered last night
[10:54] <mpt> now you tell me :-P
[10:56] <jsgotangco> we'll need it or else we'll end up with the same structure in a few months :P
[10:57] <mpt> need what?
[10:57] <jsgotangco> fixing the frontpage of yelp
[10:58] <mpt> Well, yelp is going to be defaulting to opening a particular "book", rather than the ToC, within a few months
[11:03] <jsgotangco> yeah, i guess my edits are not needed for now
[12:21] <jsgotangco> mdke, hi
[12:23] <mdke> hello jsgotangco 
[12:24] <jsgotangco> whats up
[12:25] <mdke> not a lot, you?
[12:25] <jsgotangco> i've been messing around with stuff
[12:25] <jsgotangco> i was installing RHEL today
[12:25] <jsgotangco> and just curiously looked at its yelp
[12:28] <mdke> ...
[12:29] <jsgotangco> it had search!
[12:29] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:30] <jsgotangco> (it was an old version of yelp)
[12:30] <mdke> what was the help like?
[12:30] <jsgotangco> oh it was stock gnome
[12:30] <jsgotangco> but it had a 4th button called "index" where you can type in whatever you fancy
[12:31] <mdke> cool
[12:31] <jsgotangco> i was actually messing around with the toc.xml page
[12:32] <jsgotangco> its going to be useful or not for us, i cannot say yet
[12:36] <jsgotangco> ill just finish my research on this then i'll go back into writing docs for gnome
[12:38] <mdke> i saw corey's email on the yelp frontpage
[12:38] <mdke> i've added my thoughts
[12:39] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[12:39] <jsgotangco> im not so sure if i can attend today's CC meeting; i have a morning appointment later
[12:39] <mdke> mpt has some ideas about that question too
[12:39] <mdke> what time is the CC meeting?
[12:40] <jsgotangco> 22:00 UTC
[12:40] <jsgotangco> i'll forward you an email
[12:40] <jsgotangco> its interesting
[12:40] <jsgotangco> i haven't answered it yet though
[12:43] <jsgotangco> sent
[12:43] <mdke> who from?
[12:44] <jsgotangco> thoreaupeutic
[12:44] <jsgotangco> (Peter Garrett)
[12:44] <jsgotangco> i got to talk to this guy during UDU
[12:44] <mdke> right
[12:44] <mdke> interesting mail
[12:44] <jsgotangco> (he's a senior citizen btw)
[12:44] <mdke> ic
[12:45] <jsgotangco> i'll reply to him later
[12:45] <mdke> hmmm
[12:45] <mdke> the whole point of having forums and a wiki is that they are really easy to contribute to
[12:46] <jsgotangco> hmmm?
[12:47] <mdke> but as he says, there is no reason why people can't email us their work and we can go about integrating it
[12:47] <mdke> its been done before
[12:47] <jsgotangco> well yeah that's what i am about to say
[12:47] <jsgotangco> he's probably not subscribed to ubuntu-doc
[12:47] <jsgotangco> he's usually just in the chat room
[12:48] <mdke> well i agree that greater communication is needed between us and ubuntu-users, ubuntu-devel etc
[12:48] <mdke> that's why I sent round the team meeting thing
[12:48] <mdke> if people want to contribute, it really is quite easy though IMO
[12:48] <mdke> just write to the mailing list or /j #ubuntu-doc
[12:49] <jsgotangco> well that's how Mentoring Community is supposed to be, but isn't being practised at the moment
[12:49] <mdke> what do you mean?
[12:49] <jsgotangco> oh well i'll reply to him later
[12:49] <mdke> he has a lot of good points though
[12:49] <jsgotangco> we had a BOF before about Mentoring Community
[12:50] <jsgotangco> indeed
[12:50] <jsgotangco> well i'll try to catch up later if i can
[12:50] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[12:50] <mdke> okies
[12:50] <mdke> bye mate
[01:24] <mdke> similar I imagine
[02:11] <mpt> mdke: not really :-)
[02:11] <mpt> "baz commit" means commit to your local repository
[02:12] <mpt> so that, for example, "baz diff" starts again from zero
[02:12] <mpt> and so, for example, "baz switch" works without dragging the changes you've just made to a different branch where you probably don't want them
[02:12] <mpt> whereas "cvs commit" means commit to *the* repository
[02:12] <mpt> which only works if you have "commit access"
[02:13] <mdke> yeah
[02:13] <mdke> that is what svn does
[02:13] <mpt> "that" being which?
[02:14] <mpt> more similar to cvs, or to baz?
[02:14] <mdke> commit to repository
[02:14] <mdke> remote repository
[02:14] <mdke> so similar to cvs i guess
[02:18] <mpt> baz was the first RCS I learnt
[02:18] <mpt> so maybe I'm spoiled
[02:18] <mdke> i've heard its good
[02:18] <mpt> I've just made a diff, and sent it to the maintainer, and now I want to start another set of changes
[02:19] <mpt> without the first changes showing up in the second diff
[02:19] <mdke> on the userguide?
[02:19] <mpt> yes
[02:19] <mdke> cool
[02:19] <mdke> just get commit access
[02:19] <mdke> i'm sure it would not be hard
[02:19] <mpt> "just" :-)
[02:19] <mdke> especially if he knows you
[02:19] <mpt> dude, it's my first patch
[02:19] <mpt> And I've talked to him approximately once
[02:20] <mdke> if they don't have a lot of contributors, I'm thinking they will be happy for more
[02:20] <mdke> but thats cool
[02:20] <mdke> if you work on the second patch and send it to him, as long as he applies them in order there will be no problem right?
[02:21] <mpt> the second patch will be a superset of the first
[02:21] <mpt> and the third patch will be a superset of the second
[02:21] <mpt> and so on
[02:21] <mdke> yes
[02:21] <mdke> no problem
[02:22] <mpt> Well, it is a problem if he likes the second and third but not the first :-)
[02:22] <mdke> yes that is true
[02:22] <mdke> but you can correct the relevant sections and make a fourth ;)
[02:24] <mpt> heh
[02:24] <mpt> anyway, sleep time
[04:54] <mgalvin> for <screen></screen>'s the extra new lines get displayed by the browser which can make copy/pasting that content always have extra lines...
[04:54] <mgalvin> i would like to just make them more inline so that ...

[04:54] <mgalvin> sudo apt-get install gftp
[04:54] <mgalvin>                                 </screen>
[04:55] <mgalvin> would just be <screen>sudo apt-get install gftp</screen>


[04:55] <froud> but that needs to be in a block element such as 

[04:56] <mgalvin> oh ok, i'll try that, the faq just currently uses <screen></screen> everywhere
[04:56] <mgalvin> right ok
[05:10] <mgalvin> since i am and will continue to be making changes to the faq and authoring new content for it (and since i co-authored the ppc version) is it appropriate to add myself as an author?
[05:19] <froud> sure add yourself as author
[05:21] <froud> mgalvin: we used screen but you can use command, just that comand will not be shown with a black background
[05:22] <froud> perhaps you would be better served just doing <screen>some command</screen>
[05:28] <mgalvin> froud, agreed, i tried using <command>...</command> and that doesn't look very good, i will stick with <screen>...</screen>
[05:43] <froud> mgalvin: are you using profiles for ppc
[05:44] <froud> you know you can do
[05:45] <froud> mgalvin: for example you can use the arch attribute
[05:45] <froud> <application os="gnome" arch="ppc"
[05:45] <froud>                     >Terminal</application>
[05:46] <froud> if something is applicable to gnome+kde i386+ppc
[05:46] <froud> <application os="gnome,kde" arch="ppc,i386"
[05:46] <froud> then just pass a new param to the processor with profile.arch
[05:46] <froud> and profile.os
[05:47] <mgalvin> cool, i haven't yet, but i will definitly do that
[05:47] <froud> --stringparam profile.arch "ppc" profile.os "gnome"
[05:48] <froud> see the faq make target and copy that to a new mae target
[05:48] <mgalvin> i will do
[05:48] <mgalvin> thnx
[05:51] <froud> mgalvin: I am really glad you are loving that document :-)
[05:55] <mgalvin> froud, I'm glad to be helping out :-)
[05:56] <froud> yeah thanks, I hope they get your key rolling quickly
[05:57] <mgalvin> me too
[06:03] <mgalvin> froud, should i make the faqppc build target build into .../C/ppc
[06:04] <froud> it has a base.dir param to build/
[06:04] <froud> you will need to create a new dir in the build tree
[06:05] <froud> if it's gnome it will be in build/gnome/faqguideppc/C/
[06:05] <froud> I think
[06:05] <mgalvin> ok, i'll do that, thnx
[06:06] <froud> remember the links to ../images/C/ must work
[06:06] <froud> ../../images/C/ must work
[06:07] <froud> if you change that path you will not get any images
[06:07] <froud> saying this we will have to fix the i386 make target
[06:10] <mgalvin> to faqguidei386? then we will also need faqguideamd64
[06:10] <froud> yes :-) bingo
[06:11] <froud> all from the same instance, using different make targets
[06:11] <froud> beautiful
[06:11] <mgalvin> ok, well, i am starving, i am gonna grab some food, i will change all those when i get back in like 30min
[08:25] <mdke> jeffsch, you'd better apply that gnome makefile patch from mgalvin, i wouldn't have a clue
[08:25] <mgalvin> makefile patches mailed to the list
[08:25] <mgalvin> um, i see you saw that already :)
[08:26] <mdke> heh
[08:26] <mdke> this boy needs commit access
[08:26] <mdke> mgalvin, did you apply?
[08:30] <mgalvin> mdke, yea, I am waiting on james to set up my account
[08:31] <mdke> cool
[08:31] <mdke> has it be a long enough time for us to bug him?
[08:32] <mgalvin> its been about 4-5 days
[08:33] <mdke> hmm
[08:33] <mgalvin> i sent him an email this morning asking if he could set it up when he gets a chance
[08:33] <mdke> that might be a yes
[08:33] <mdke> ok cool
[08:33] <mgalvin> no response yet
[08:34] <mgalvin> feel free to bug him for me if you want :-)
[08:34] <mdke> i might
[08:34] <mdke> he'll probably be at the CC this evenin
[08:36] <jeffsch> howdy folks
[08:36] <mdke> hey jeffsch 
[08:36] <mgalvin> hey jeffsch
[08:36] <jeffsch> mgalvin: i applied your gnome makefile patch
[08:36] <mgalvin> i saw, thanks
[08:36] <jeffsch> what happens if someone wants to build the whole thing?
[08:37] <mgalvin> i was thinking of making another target for all, i just didin't write it yet
[08:37] <jeffsch> ah, ok
[08:37] <mgalvin> er, called faq, which would build all faqs
[08:38] <jeffsch> :)
[08:38] <mgalvin> :)
[08:38] <jeffsch> i'll add your author file too. but you didn't need to send a diff :)
[08:38] <jeffsch> it's just a file for the authors directory
[08:40] <mgalvin> oh ok, thanks, i just figured since its in svn i would send the diff (better safe than sorry)
[08:41] <jeffsch> np
[08:46] <jeffsch> doh! faq is still a target in "make all"
[08:46] <jeffsch> mgalvin: how do you want to handle make all?
[08:47] <jeffsch> include faqi386 etc, in make all target, or what?
[08:48] <mgalvin> i am making a target called faq which calls faqi386 faqamd64 faqppc
[08:49] <mgalvin> so all will call faq which will call the others
[08:49] <mgalvin> its one line...
[08:49] <mgalvin> faq: faqi386 faqamd64 faqppc
[08:49] <jeffsch> hmmm... so faq will build three separate files
[08:49] <mgalvin> which will fix that breakage
[08:49] <mgalvin> it will build all 3 version of the faqguide
[08:53] <mgalvin> i added these 3 lines for this if you wanna just add them
[08:53] <mgalvin> #Status: AVAILABLE
[08:53] <mgalvin> # FAQ Guide - build for all archs (i386, amd64, ppc)
[08:53] <mgalvin> faq: faqi386 faqamd64 faqppc
[08:54] <jeffsch> ok, i'll add em
[08:54] <mgalvin> and these for kde
[08:54] <mgalvin> #Status: AVAILABLE
[08:54] <mgalvin> # K FAQ Guide - build for all archs (i386, amd64, ppc)
[08:54] <mgalvin> kfaq: kfaqi386 kfaqamd64 kfaqppc
[08:56] <jeffsch> mdke: have you built any html lately?
[08:56] <mgalvin> in my file i added those right above the individual targets to keep them together and in order
[08:56] <jeffsch> mdke: the other day you said something like "that ubuntu wiki draft graphic is cool"
[08:56] <mgalvin> just so you know
[08:57] <jeffsch> mdke: your wish is my command
[08:57] <jeffsch> mgalvin: yep, that's where i put it
[08:59] <mdke> haha
[08:59] <mdke> no i haven't but I will
[09:00] <mdke> i don't think the draft thing is cool, but it is nice to be consistent ;)
[09:00] <mgalvin> jeffsch, cool :)
[09:00] <mdke> bbl
[09:01] <jeffsch> ok mgalvin, i added the faq target to gnome side of things
[09:01] <jeffsch> groud will do the kde stuff
[09:02] <jeffsch> s/groud/froud :)
[09:03] <mgalvin> ok great thanks
[09:08] <jeffsch> gotta run. bbl
[09:09] <mgalvin> later
[09:32] <Njal> lo all
[09:32] <mgalvin> hi Njal
[09:32] <Njal> hows all?
[09:33] <mgalvin> pretty good, been patching the makefiles to allow for building different versions of the faq guide
[09:34] <Njal> Cool, im not up to speed on it all yet, but i'm sure i'll catch on evertually
[09:35] <mgalvin> have you worked on any of the docs yet?
[09:35] <Njal> Yes, the ubuntu-gnome-userguide
[09:35] <Njal> specifically the command prompt bit
[09:35] <mgalvin> cool
[09:36] <Njal> Im off to uni in september so a lot of my time is spent learning C so learning xml on the side takes a bit
[10:05] <mdke> back
[10:51] <mgalvin> if i only had commit access :-/
[10:51] <mdke> yeah
[10:51] <Burgundavia> ask elmo
[10:51] <mdke> yes it is worth bugging him
[10:52] <mdke> ooh he's not here
[10:52] <mdke> scandal
[10:54] <mgalvin> Burgundavia, i did and so did froud
[10:55] <mgalvin> and enrico
[10:55] <mdke> i'll bug him at CC if he comes
[10:55] <mdke> mgalvin, don't worry, in the meantime we'll apply your patches as fast as we can :D
[10:55] <mgalvin> :)
[11:01] <mgalvin> froud, ping
[11:02] <mdke> he is applying em now
[11:02] <mgalvin> er, ok, was just going to make sure he uses the second kde makefile patch
[11:02] <mgalvin> i gotta run for now
[11:02] <mgalvin> see you guys in a bit
[11:02] <mgalvin> l8r
[11:03] <mdke> bye
[11:14] <froud> So dudes
[11:14] <froud> waz up
[11:14] <mdke> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050705130920424
[11:14] <mdke> patents news
[11:14] <froud> where did matt go'
[11:14] <mdke> froud, he went away, he wanted to make sure that you used his second patch for the kde makefile, rather than the first
[11:16] <froud> I did
[11:16] <froud> I replied to the patches I applied
[11:16] <mdke> ah col
[11:17] <mdke> cool
[11:17] <froud> there is one already applied, but seems nobody replied to it
[11:17] <mdke> erm
[11:17] <froud> think we must get the message out that if you apply a patch that you reply-to-all
[11:17] <mdke> jeff did the gnome one and the authors one, but he replied to them both
[11:17] <froud> Hmm
[11:19] <froud> nope no messages to the list
[11:20] <mdke> i got them
[11:20] <mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-July/002819.html
[11:20] <froud> ok, perhaps someting on the way, it take time for mail to reach africa :-)
[11:20] <mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-July/002818.html
[11:20] <mdke> heh guess so
[11:20] <froud> yep I see the svn log
[11:20] <mdke> but it was a while ago
[11:21] <froud> matt is doing good work
[11:21] <mdke> those emails are jeff posting to the ubuntu-doc list
[11:21] <mdke> froud, yeah he is :D
[11:21] <froud> he has the hang of profiles
[11:21] <froud> and th emake targets
[11:22] <froud> its really cool we have three archs and two os's in one file
[11:23] <mdke> cough
[11:23] <froud> fickle hearted?
[11:23] <froud> you non-believer you
[11:23] <froud> :-)
[11:23] <mdke> fickle = change of mind, i haven't changed mine yet ;)
[11:24] <froud> yep oust software patents
[11:25] <froud> If, down the road, Microsoft does attack GNU/Linux on patent infringement grounds, why isn't all this lobbying and undermining an example that could be used to demonstrate antitrust violation? Ditto on the standards wars.
[11:25] <froud> very true
[11:26] <froud> went to see mr and mrs smith today
[11:26] <froud> dam jolie is hot
[11:26] <froud> well I am off for now se ya later
[11:27] <mdke> ok
[11:27] <mdke> bye
[11:27] <froud> nite